Jana Kramer
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Hi. I'm so happy you're here. Literally, so Rob had a conflict. Joy is like in London. And they were like, oh no, we're so sorry. We're going to have to reschedule this week. I was like, everybody out of my way. I need to catch up with my girl. Like, we have so much to talk about. And Rob was so cute. He was like, oh, you have to ask Jana if she like did the same thing I did, which was like, you guys were doing the podcast. He goes, and for the longest time, I was like...

why aren't my friends inviting me on their show? And then I realized you only like have people on when their character is on screen. So I was going to have to wait seven seasons. I was like, God, it's, I've been like,

I've been chomping at the bit to get to here and we're finally here. Yeah, no, 1000%. I thought this, I was like, well, I, everyone's like, kept asking me, when are you gonna be on driving Queens? I was like, I don't know. I don't still think they like me because I'm not. So, but it's fine. You just forget that we did our show for essentially the equivalent of 140 years. So it took us a while to get to Alex Dupre. Yeah. I mean, like so many episodes and just so long. And that's just kind of so unheard of now in this day and age of like TV and how

So I'm like, when I even tried to rewatch things from, I'm like, there's no time. There's no time. By the way, I think about that so often. Like when we go to our sweet little conventions and we get to regroup with people, it's like someone will say, oh, I'm on my fifth rewatch. And I'll look at them and be like, do you have like a time management app? You know something about free time that I don't know and I would love your skills. And people look at me like I'm crazy. I'm like, I just don't.

I don't feel like I have the time to watch new things. Right. Yeah. But I am loving the experience of going back and watching our show. Okay. For our friends at home, I clearly am very excited. I actually started before you got in. I was just like talking to everyone about how excited I was that you were here and then realized I wasn't recording because I'm like so amped that I have forgotten how to do my job. But I voice noted Jana last night and I was like, I'm beside myself that you're coming. I...

I had obviously the most fun working with you. Like for everyone at home, we were roommates for years. I love this woman, but like Brooke and Alex were adversaries. So I had to be in the scenes. And obviously I was so enamored with you because you're the most charming person alive. But like, I never got to just watch you. I had to act with you. And now I'm watching you and I am like,

cackling out loud. I'm obsessed with Alex Dupre. I finally relate to Joy where she's like, oh yeah, it's really weird for me. Anytime Nathan has chemistry with a girl on screen, I'm jealous. And I was like, that's weird. And then I was like, how cute. I guess because you guys worked together for so long. And Julian is Brooke's endgame. And I was like, they have really good chemistry. I'm sort of offended. I'm also sort of a fan. Should Alex and Julian have ended up together? Like,

know what's happening to me. Well, spoiler alert, Alex did get Julian in the end in a different movie because we just did a movie together and every little piece of my heart, I was like, I'm going to go on Drama Queens and be like, well, Alex finally got to kiss Julian. Alex finally got a man. Oh my God, I'm obsessed. Yeah, but then he tried to kill her. So, you know, it didn't really end up well. Okay, well, that

That was the plot twist I didn't see coming, but probably the point of the movie. Yeah. But yeah, anyway, but it was like, it was very much like a, oh wow. I was like, a lot of people are like, Brooke is not going to like this. Cause like the Tree Hills, like, you know, when they cast Austin and I together, I'm like, all right, he's playing my husband. And my first thought was the Tree Hill fans. So I was like, they're going to hate this. Yeah.

I sort of love it though. I feel like it's such a testament to our show that so many of us wind up coming together on all these other endeavors. Like there's something really special about the kinds of friendships you build where it doesn't matter if it's been a week or a year since you've seen someone, you're like right back in the groove. Yeah.

It's something that only this little handful of us got to do together. And it's so special. Yeah, it was cool because I was... So my husband has never watched One Tree Hill ever. Oh my God, I was going to ask. Yeah, he's never watched, had no idea who I was on the show. And honestly, like when I auditioned for One Tree Hill, I didn't even audition for Alex. I auditioned for Chantel's character. I didn't know that. And Chantel auditioned for Alex. Yes.

what, wait, okay, hold on, hold on. Do you know that when the show first started, and I didn't even know this until years later because Brooke's not in the pilot. So like I missed, you know, I showed up in Wilmington in July for like episode one and everybody had had this preexisting life for months where like they knew each other and all these things from the pilot back in April. And I had no clue about very pivotal pieces of information, both on screen and off.

And I learned that originally the WB had tried to cast Chad as Nathan. Oh, wow. And he was like, no, I always play the bad guy. I want to play the good guy. Because I guess his character on Dawson's Creek was like a really terrible person. I don't know. I didn't watch the later seasons of the show.

But so Chad was almost Nathan and you were almost Quinn. Yeah. Oh my God. This is crazy. Yeah. So I remember going into producer sessions with, you know, the, the producers and then the creator was there and, and, uh, he was like, you're great, but I don't think this is your part. And I was like, okay. He's like, can you read these? Can you go out in the hall and read these sides? Yeah.

And so I'm just like, yeah, sure. Yep. And so I go out there and I'm reading these sides and I'm like, this is so not me. Like, this is the farthest thing from me. I don't feel connected to this character at all. And I just like, I don't know, like every time, even like to this day, whenever there's like a really big, you know,

energy. I just, I don't know. I just, it doesn't like, it just feels weird. I'm like, she's an alcoholic and I've never been drunk before and I've never done drugs. And so there's like all the things I'm like, I just am not connected to this character. And then I booked it and I was like, oh crap. So, so then like watching back, I w I was always really insecure of playing Alex because I just didn't, I don't know. I just, it, she didn't,

I really had to like, try to like create something different with her and try to make her have a little bit of heart in moments. Yeah. Because I just didn't like connect to her at times. But then there's other scenes where it was like, you know, later on scenes, I'm like, oh my gosh, I so connect to her. But, but yeah, it was, it was always so weird. But watching back, I'm like, okay, I wasn't in my head. I thought I wasn't,

I wasn't good. I wasn't like funny or I wasn't. And I'm like, oh, I'm actually laughing along to like our scenes. So it was like enjoyable to actually watch back a few episodes to go, okay, like this was funny or I did do a decent job. Yeah. I mean, my God, you're so good. It's really interesting to hear you talk about it in that way, because that's how I felt getting cast as Brooke. Oh, wow. And you're like the perfect Brooke. Yeah.

And to me, you obviously I know you as a human differently and you know me as a human differently, but on screen you embody so much of Alex. And I think I think maybe that's the through line is when you can't understand why someone would behave in a way you really have to figure out.

You have to figure out their emotional story. You have to have something underneath it that makes this, you know, on paper outlandish behavior feel like it comes from somewhere. And I remember early in us doing the podcast when Joy and Hill and I were talking about

And Joy was like, wait, I, but hold on. Cause to me, you know, this all made sense. Why did it feel so different for you? And I, I told her this and I don't know if we've ever talked about this part, but like

When we started the show, like when I came in for episode one, I was three years out of an all-girls school. Oh, wow. Like, there were 55 girls in my graduating class, and we were in school from seventh through twelfth grade together. And then I went to, you know, a big sort of traditional college for three years, and then I came to set. Wow.

I was like, what is high school? Who are boys? Like, what do you mean they're in your class? What do you mean people ditch? I could never, I could never have skipped class. Like in the school that I went to, there's no way I could have gotten away with it. So to be this girl who was like,

sexual and into, I don't know, being wild and cutting school and didn't care. I was, I felt like you felt being like, uh, okay, I guess I have to figure out why she's like this. Right. And you did and you killed it. What a trip though. Cause I feel that watching you, I'm like, you just absolutely crushed it.

Well, thank you. But it was like, we ended up watching a couple more of the episodes and there was the, you know, the scenes where I ended up finding her and me through her. It was, it was a very like, and I like, I now miss playing Alex. It's like, I just, she was so fun, you know? And I feel like a lot of times I,

I don't take risks and I'm like, oh, I'm not right for this. I'm not right for this. And so she's like, that character has kind of helped me go, okay, no, I wasn't right for that. I didn't feel like I was right for that. And I got it. So like, kind of, and then like have fun with things. Cause I really, truly like I there's, I stopped myself from the fun and the joy of a lot of stuff. So, yeah.

Because I'm too in my brain. Yeah. Oh, isn't it so interesting when we go to therapy and we figure out how our childhood trauma presents as adults. And you're like, I'm not going to do that. And I'm not going to do that. And I'm not going to do anything that is maybe unsafe. And then it's in the unsafe where you kind of learn the most and you have the most fun with yourself. Yeah. So yeah, that's why I miss her. That's why it was fun to kind of like revisit. And then Alan was just chuckling in bed last night, just watching all of it. He was just like,

He goes, your voice is different. I'm like, I know. Why is my voice so high? But maybe the voice helped you get into it. Right. You know? Yeah. I love it. Okay. So we are an easy 10 minutes in. And I think what we have to do for the fans, I want to go through some like,

Q&A, let's get into some stuff questions and then do the episode because I feel like we have too much to talk about to try to do them all at the same time. Are you down? Just do it. Okay, great. So you just talked about Alan. Also, footnote...

So Megan Park, you know, who's married to Tyler Hilton, for all the friends at home, our beloved Chris Keller. Megan got these hats made that say, I've never seen One Tree Hill because she'd never seen it. And she sent one to Ash. And I feel like Alan needs one too. 1000%. And also though-

I mean, I hate to say it, but I never watched, I personally never watched One Tree Hill and I watched a couple episodes, but then I didn't go back and like, I didn't even know Nathan and I didn't know they were brothers like until like way later. I really just didn't do my research before going on the show. I knew you, I knew like, but I just, yeah, I know I was so nervous. I remember working with you. I was like, oh my gosh, she's Sophia Bush. Yeah.

Oh my God, stop. But yeah, so I, but yeah, Alan for sure. Cause he's never seen any of them. So yeah, until last night. That is so great. Yeah. Wait, so what, what did he think? What was the feedback? He, he,

He was like, you know, in his little cute Scottish accent, he's like, he really, he's like, yeah, baby's like, that was, I get it. I get why people like it so much. He's like, I got into it, you know? So then, cause he was asking questions about the episode we were watching. He's like, so wait, did, is, is there a love child with Nathan or is that like, is she actually lying? So I'm like, oh, you're asking questions. Okay. Interesting. You're into it. Invested in the drama. Yeah. And he's like, okay, so yeah.

I thought Coletti or Stephen's character was with Mia. So I thought that was your boy. So he was like, what's the progression like? And so he was definitely asking. So he liked it. Oh, I love it. Oh, I love it. And then he was just like, you're so young. And he's like, you're cute. I was watching yesterday to get prepped and I'm on the East Coast. And so actually...

Ash sat down to watch with me. Our friend Sammy is here. And she was like, wait, but that's your boyfriend. Wait, you also dated this guy in high school? Wait, okay, has Brooke dated every boy on the show? Okay, wait, there were so many questions. And I was like, oh, man, people, it's the exact same feeling. You're like, oh, you really do want to know who these people are. You want to understand their world. And then the question that is the bane of my existence, which doesn't relate to any of our characters is,

is everyone who tunes in in later seasons goes, why is your store so purple? I'm like, listen, I didn't pick it out. It wouldn't have been my choice. I don't know what else to say other than it was the early aughts and people were really into lavender. I don't know. It worked. It worked. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine.

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Listen, I wouldn't sell yourself short, but it is helpful to know that if you could do it starting from scratch, then maybe there's hope for me when I finally decide to build my own website. I can't wait.

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Take this as your sign to pencil in a vacay this fall and turn back to school season into back to beach season. Go to cheapcaribbean.com to find your next all-inclusive vacay offer and September 5th. Okay, you and Alan got married in Scotland. We did. Congratulations. Thank you. How long has it been? How is newlywed life? Tell us how you met your man. So he DM'd me on Instagram. That's how we met. Stop.

He slid into the DMs, but he's a football soccer coach. And so he was coaching in England. And at the time, I'm divorced, have two kids, and I had just had quite a fun summer. And I'm like, you know what? I just need a break and I just want to just chill. But he was pretty persistent. And I told him if he was ever...

in the States to come to Nashville and, you know, we can go out for a drink. And he, we were, yeah, we were texting and then he's like, all right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be in Tampa. So I'm gonna come, I'd love to take you out in Nashville. So I was like, sure, I'll go out with you. And then it was just like,

stepping into my own Christmas movie. It was in November and the Christmas lights were all up and the tree and he just like turns around and his like dapper, you know, P code and his like sexy Scottish accent. And I was like, oh, I am so screwed. Yeah. And then, you know, things obviously progressed pretty quick from there. And he moved over in March. I was pregnant in, gosh, I don't even know what, April. And then we had our baby in November. Yeah.

And yeah, and then we just got married on July 13th, 24. Oh, it's so exciting. Yeah. And he's, I mean, he's a dream. It's, it's been, it's, it's so beautiful now kind of where life is at because I always, there were so many questions like, why did this happen? Or why, how come I had to go through that? And like, I, you know, the struggle that I had with my ex-husband for seven years and just like the back and forth, you know, affairs. And it's like,

It's so beautiful now to go, okay, I had to kind of walk this path, find me through that path and then find the absolute love of my life who I...

just trust with everything and he, how he loves my, you know, my two kids, his now stepkids is just, it's so beautiful. And like, they, they now get to see what, you know, true love looks like and, and, you know, a more modern world. And it's just, it's beautiful. And he's, he's so good with me. Like he pushes me, but yet he's very, um, he's very protective. He's very loving. Um,

And we just, we have each other's back. And I just, I don't, there's no, there's no doubts because he shows up. He says what he says and he does what he does, you know, says what he does. So it's those words and actions match. And it makes me then trust him and not, you know, freak out like I did the last time. So it's just like, it's a beautiful and it's peaceful. And it's like, I finally can take a breath and just like have steady ground. And that's just a joy. I like, I love that you chose to say peaceful. Mm-hmm.

We've certainly been through the ringer together and in parallel. And I didn't even realize for the longest time how hard all the work felt. And I think when you have, to your point, past betrayal to heal, very, by the way, well-deserved trust issues. When you've been through things that are so hard,

I think there can even be, at least there was for me, this like subconscious desire to prove that that didn't change you and that you can move past it. And when you try to do everything right, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's right for you. It doesn't necessarily mean that checking every box off the list is going to actually lead you to happiness or peace. Yeah.

And sometimes I wonder if, especially because for us as performance artists, we've been trained to like push through the pain, sing through the sickness, act through the illness, whatever it is, because you have to be a good team leader. And I think that that can be really great in a team sport, but isn't necessarily so great in your personal home life. Yeah.

And when you stop like fighting through it and you find a person you can rest with, like what a gift. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, there's, there's that piece. And then there's just, there's a P there's a piece of just so much safety to not in like a, a settling safety way. Like he's just like, I feel so safe with him. And, and with that as the support and the love and everything else, but there's, there's,

I've always kind of feared things and I don't have to fear anymore. I don't have to fear of the abuse. I don't have to fear of the betrayal. Like I get to just feel safe in a beautiful way. And that's, that's a gift for sure too. Well, yeah. When your nervous system gets to relax. I know. I'm like, oh, well, this is nice. And so now I'm like with my ex, I'm like, thank you.

Like, yeah, thanks. Yeah, it's good. You know, I think that's a really profound place to get to is when you can look at every shitty thing that's ever happened to you or every way someone betrayed your trust and go, you know what, if that's what it took me to get here and to just like lay it all down and be willing to start over and be happy. Thank you. Oh, yeah, it's big. I'm just so happy for you. I'm happy for you, too.

Oh, so what is, what is life like? Tell us what's going on. I mean, you've, you've been such a great leader with your platform, like the things that you have been willing to speak about and the journeys you've been willing to take people on. I think, I think people don't always necessarily know what sort of courage and vulnerability that can take, but you've modeled it really, really beautifully. And yeah,

I don't know, like what, what feels like next? You know, you, you just talked about the movie you did with Austin. Yeah. It was so fun. That came out, um, that came out this summer and it was, it was so fun. And that was a, you know, that was a piece on domestic violence, which, you know, obviously, you know, my past with domestic violence. So to be able to kind of change the script and I got to, um, get the power back through acting was a really powerful moment. Like I never got to

I got to see my ex in court, but I never got to say anything. And so this, like, I got to, you know, change the script with that. And so that was a really powerful thing I got to do this past summer. And, you know, this year, I mean, my book, I'm still, you know, promoting the book that I wrote last year, the next chapter. And that was, you know, walking through a really hard season of, you know, divorce and getting through that. And, but really, yeah,

I've always put my joy and happiness on a relationship and a man. And I really had to go, okay, I have, I forced myself to be alone to find true happiness with myself. And that was the hardest piece of my post-divorce that I had to walk through because I've always was like, I am happy when I am in a relationship. And I was like, I have to break that cycle because I will never be happy. He will never be enough or make me happy. So I'm like, I got to find it. So I think that was a...

So I'm still working on ways of still talking about that. And obviously through my podcast, Wind Down has been a really... We do like therapy Thursdays because obviously I think it's really important to talk about mental health. So we have two episodes a week that we do. And then...

You know, I'm just grinding and auditioning and just trying to like, my dream obviously is to be back on a show watching these episodes again. And I, you know, I kind of fast forwarded through a few more of the other ones and, you know, getting to one of the episodes and the season, one of the season finales was like, like having that like camaraderie again with like a cast and like, it's just like,

I'm like, I miss it. Like I miss, I miss showing up and doing that and, and working, you know, and I've gotten so close on some shows that have just been heartbreaking in this industry is so hard. You know, it's like, yeah, I had one that I tested for, got pinned for and, you know, working out all the stuff. And then you get the call. They're like, they went with the other one, other actress. And I'm just like, it's just devastating, you know, cause you get so close and you're like, well, I don't know when I'm going to be that close again. But I'm, for me, I'm just like,

I support my kids and I will always be working and grinding. And a piece of that is like, I want to be giving back and working on charities and stuff, but also dream goals or yeah, get back on the show. That's like my number one thing is working towards that. And just being the best mom I can, because I've got three kids now and my husband, he's traveling a lot with soccer. So it's just...

It's a lot, as you know now with having littles around. And so it's, you know, it's a, it's a responsibility. And for me, it's like, I just, I want to, I want to keep grinding, but I have to, you know, support, supporting them. And also like their childhood goes by so fast that I want to be present in those moments too. Like there's a lot of things that I've

There was a movie I didn't take this year because I didn't want to go back to back movies because I'm like, I'm not going to miss six weeks without my kids. Like that's just, I'm still a mom first and foremost. Yeah. I know it's like the, the grind changes and, and to really realize how, how everything you do models for them. And, you know, I think there's no way that you go through like

some of the things you and I have been through. And you get to the other end of it where you go, oh, I can see everything that led me here. I see what I accepted that I shouldn't have. I see that I didn't know my worth. I see that I thought if I could build around what might be missing, maybe the center would fill in. Like whatever the aha moments are, you know, I...

And I know you feel a lot of this. Like, I love my parents, but there was a whole lot I didn't learn in my house that I'm finally coming to terms with as an adult. And I cherish the fact that we have such a good relationship and now we can talk about a lot of the things that I didn't necessarily understand as a kid. But when you realize how early they get

molded and how early they learn, you know, what healthy love is and that they matter and that they deserve to be seen and heard and all these things. It's like,

Yeah. Shifts everything. And I get, you know, when you're young, it's like you go, yeah, we can do it all. We can have it all. And then you become an adult and you go, yeah, maybe, but not all at the same time. Right. And I called one of my girlfriends who has two kids. And I was like, the fact that I ever with a straight face looked at you and was like, well, yeah, why don't we just have dinner after the kids go to bed? Like eight o'clock. Yeah.

Like, excuse you? Yeah, if they've gone to bed at eight, like you're asleep by 812. What are you talking about? It's just like a crazy, it's a crazy thing. And it's fun. It's really special to watch you get to do all this and navigate all this. And I love, I love the fact even by the way that you're so open, like to have written the book and to talk about what it is to

find that sort of peace in yourself. And then also to be like, just because I finally put my own puzzle together doesn't mean I don't still have to work on me. Oh no, I go every two weeks to therapy. I'm, you know, cause it's things come up that trigger you from certain things in your past, you know, that's the, that's the whole thing. And what I think is cool about kind of you and I too, is like, I, you've seen me go on that boy chase struggle and that like,

And it's like, there's so many times too, when like I can reverse it and go, man, you know, it's when I've seen my friends kind of see what I was doing. It's like, you, you can't do anything. You can't say anything. They just, the person just has to go through it, you know? So, and it's kind of, you know, you, and you've gone on your own path of, of how your childhood has led you to walk different, different roads. So, you know, and you just, you find it out and then you get to make the choice, whether you're going to,

uh, succumb to that or you're going to change it and, and, you know, grow. So. Yeah, it is. It's so, it's so surreal. One of the things that I love that you mentioned about even carving out a space for that sort of growth on the podcast, like what you do on wind down and what you do on Thursdays, I just think

It's more powerful than you might even realize. The willingness to normalize growth, to normalize learning how to choose yourself, to say no matter what it looks like on the outside, you don't have any idea what's happening on the inside. You know, the courage that it takes to share those things.

I don't know. I just, I'm, I'm grateful that you do it. Well, like we're always going to get thrown things our way. Like life isn't easy. It's hard. There's things that don't make sense to us that we can be triggered from, but also like, just because I'm not in a, you know, my relationship now is, is the healthiest, most,

model of a relationship I've ever had, but there's still going to be things that come in, like I said, like from my past. So it's okay. How do I, how do I make sure that I communicate from the girl I am now, as opposed to the girl 20 years ago? Cause I don't, cause I can, I can go back real fast to her and I can go in protective mode and I can be an ass and I can be mean with my words and I can like, but that's all like my protection. And that's me trying to, cause I'm get scared and you're going to, you're going to leave me. You're not going to choose me. And so it's like, I go right back. So it's like,

how do I like take those moments to just like breathe and go, okay, he's not leaving me. He's not hurt. You know? So it's like, or, and that's not just him, but like just anybody. So it's like, because I go straight into like, got to protect myself, D up, like, and so, you know, that's like,

Those things like that are just continuing to work on that. And then anything else that kind of comes up is just like, I just think that you can always be growing. You can always be healing. You can always be learning. Because that's going to make me a better parent too. Yes, please. I'm like, you know back when Oprah was on and she'd be like, tweet it. I'm like, put it up and make it a billboard. Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I just...

I love it. Well, we were having, it was funny. There was, it wasn't even, cause we haven't even had like an argument. Like when we've, you know, we've bickered a few times, but like,

The other day I had to, I had to work something in with, we were just kind of walking through something that I knew was possibly going to be triggering for both of us. And so I was like, all right, I'm going to tap into some therapy right now. I'm like, okay, what I heard you said was this. And I'm like, is there anything I missed? So that way, you know, and then like, and then what did you hear me say? So it was just like, and we had like the most amazing conversation and like old school Jana, it would have been probably like a big fight, you know? Right. Yeah.

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Talk about how incredible our skin is. It protects us from the outside world while also being a litmus test for how our body's doing physically and emotionally. Our skin sends us important messages about our lifestyle, nutrition, and about how we feel. It plays such an important role in how we see ourselves and how the world sees us.

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With the help from people with real life stories and experts of all sorts, she gets to the heart of what makes us glow from the inside out. Listen to Skin Queries on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. All right, this is what you do when the love of your life, the apple of your eye, the bag you would beg for can wait no longer. You ready? You

You go to eBay. Seriously, there you'll be reunited with that designer goddess of your dreams, that iconic Gucci handbag authenticated by experts no less. And with that in mind, you might let a fun Prada mini bag catch your attention. But at eBay, wandering eyes are always welcome. So if you happen to also find the perfect cheetah print dress to go with that bag, we'll just call it fate, baby. So go ahead and let's take you down a Y2K adventure. Flirt with the endless possibilities, baby tees that say I'm

back chunky heels only you can pull off and the Y2K mini skirts that were way ahead of their time. And you better make a move on that timeless Tiffany and Coach Arm necklace while you're at it. And just because you look good in chunky heels doesn't mean you'll slack on your sneaker game. Let your love for sneakers take you down a not-so-sold-out road and hit the ground running with all the latest streetwear. Nike, Off-White, Fear of God, Stone Island, Kith, Supreme, and whatever Adidas collab pops up next.

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The more you love, the more you'll find. From the new to the pre-loved and waiting to be loved. The timeless classics to the one of ones and everything in between. Yeah, eBay. It's the place for new, pre-loved, vintage, and rare fashion. eBay. Things people love. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. What are your non-negotiables, Rob? Exercise is pretty much a non-negotiable. And getting into therapy once or twice a month.

It's sort of become a non-negotiable in the last couple of years for me. You know, the same way that when I wanted to start getting in shape for the first time, I hired a personal trainer to show me the ropes of the gym and teach me how to not hurt myself while also getting stronger and

I realized if I wanted to grow emotionally that why not hire a therapist, a professional, someone with experience who can sort of guide the journey rather than just reading a self-help book by myself. And I have found it to be an invaluable experience.

resource for me. I feel that too. Yeah, I agree. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Never skip therapy day with BetterHelp.

Visit betterhelp.com slash drama today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash drama. Being in the swing of summer, I know you will understand where I'm going with this because the swing of summer makes me feel very nostalgic for treats. Like I think about when it's like hot, I think about making my own ice pops in the kitchen.

You know, putting like OJ in little freezer things or what it would feel like to cut into a watermelon when you'd run inside and it was like 100 degrees out and you had cold fruit. I don't know. Does it make you feel snacky? The summer heat? Oh, yeah. I mean, when I think summer heat hit me with one of those rocket pops.

Or a creamsicle. You know, when the ice cream truck rolled by, it was, let's get out there and grab some cold treats. Stapped. Yeah, I think what I've realized, sadly, as an adult, is that mostly when I wanted a cold treat, I probably just needed to drink water. I think I'm learning because, you know, summer is heating up, as it does every year. And the thing that gives me my hydration fix and my treat is...

is Liquid IV because they have all these nostalgic summer flavors that hit the market this summer. Like their sugar-free Rainbow Sherbert. It has taken me back to childhood in the best way. And I actually feel like I'm doing something good for myself when I drink it. And listen to some of these flavors. They have Raspberry Melon, White Peach. I am a big, big fan of the Green Grape, in fact. And I just kind of love that it's easy. Tear, pour, live more.

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Isn't that cool, though, when you see yourself grow and you're like, wow, I had that. I had that recently, too. Like, you know, the ringer of my early 20s and like going from this tiny environment to college, which, you know, in 2000, like I felt like I was on the set of Can't Hardly Wait or something like it felt like a rom-com. Yeah.

And then to be on our show, which was such a highlight, but to like get chewed up the way women were in that early aughts era and the tabloids and whatever. And, and by the way, to have all these other people project someone else's behavior, like onto me. And I was like, make the person who did the behavior answer for it. Like, I don't want to answer for it. Stop asking me about it. Like it, it was really traumatizing as a young, as a young person. And it was hard to go through it so quickly because,

as our show, you know, was new and whatnot. And like recently I felt that part of me get triggered. That was like, leave me the fuck alone, back off, stop. And I was like, oh, whoa. Like that old wound, like that pain, that pain,

22, 23 year old version of me needs adult me to hold her and let her know that even though she was very alone then and the adults in the room were incredibly terrible to her and made a lot of this stuff worse. Like I'm the adult in the room now, but I was like, wow, it's been a while since I, since I saw her. It's been a while since I let her drive the car. Right. And like, okay, really important to check in and be reminded that like,

It's okay to say it's hard to do what we do. It's hard to be one little human on the receiving end of millions of people's feedback. It's understandable that that's tough. Let's change our relationship to it for a while. Let's set better boundaries around it. Like, it's an interesting thing as an adult to start reparenting your younger selves because you carry them around in you like little nesting dolls forever. Well, that and like you just the age of, you know, when we started parenting,

When I started One Tree Hill, we didn't have, I didn't have an Instagram. And so, God, I wish I could, you know, there's Instagram has, has helped me support my children. And so for that, I'm very grateful for that platform. And also it's been half the reason why I'm in therapy with, because of the loud noises and the voices and the criticism and,

And also, you know, we're, you know, I've, I've faulted in those areas too. Like I've been on the other side of it too. And I'm like, wow, I was just a total hypocrite. Oh, you mean you were a human? You were actually a human who's not perfect all the time, like a robot? Right. But it's, it's just like, everything is so, um, multiplied. And my therapist has really helped me work on, because I would just sit and stew and read and like, oh,

almost like, but like be like, Oh, I, that I am that person. I'm like, no, that's not who I am. And like, and so she was, she really helped me with not letting the gas in. She's like, stop opening the window to get the gas. Like, she's like, you can't breathe. It's like, why are you, you're literally letting the toxins in when you open the window. She's like, you are, and you are doing it. She's like, I'm not opening the window for you. You're allowing the window to open. And I'm like,

Yeah. Well, but you don't understand and it's hard and you like, but in like me, I just like always want to like defend myself and like prove that I'm not this person because that's what I felt like I've had to do with my past abusers. Like prove that I'm not the reason like that I should be hit or this, that, and the other. And so it's like, and I've, and I don't know if you like, you don't want to talk about that. It's totally fine. But like when I've kind of, you've obviously had the other side of, you know, the criticism and online stuff too with other things. And it's like,

how you've, is that why you kind of go offline a little bit at times? Like I see you on there, but then also like, it's like, how do you deal with like not feeding into that? Cause it's net people are negative. People are horrible. And, and what you realize is it's like, you just don't know. Like people who saw you with your ex didn't know you were being abused. People who saw me try to like build this life together.

that I believed in and that I always wanted, had no idea what it was like to go through the brutality of a year of fertility. And social media does not know that inside walls, inside the four walls. They don't know how many years you struggle. Yeah. They don't know what you're going through. They don't know any struggle. Alan always says, what's inside our four walls? That's what matters. And that's the truth.

We love Alan. We love Alan. It's just like my steady, calm, like anger. Rob calls me the president of the Jana Kramer fan club on drama Queens. And I, I know you're clearly the president of the Alan Russell fan club, but I would like to be your VP and coacher. Can I be Ashlyn since she's kind of my lesbian? Well, she isn't kind of, she is my lesbian crush. So if I could just have, thanks girl. Absolutely. Come over.

We all need, we need to like, we need to get the fan. We can talk football. We can do a double date and we can talk. Well, like, you know, soccer. That's, you know, I have to say, I have to say football. Okay. Thank you. It is like, it's so weird to me that we have this incredible global sport that is played with feet. Does she call it soccer though? Even though they, it's, she's an American. I mean, it's, it's like back and forth for her. She played in Germany. She played in Sweden. Like she's done the whole, the whole rigmarole, but yeah,

It's very funny to me that like in America, we're like, well, for the world, the game with the feet is football. But here we throw a ball around with our hands and we'll call it football because we decided. I'm like, who did? Who did? I know. Yeah. Double date coming soon. They can just talk football.

Football. I can't wait. This has felt like therapy for me. I'm madly in love with you. I have one million more questions for you about our show, about Alex Dupre, about, I mean, every dreamy Wilmington thing. So let's go do 706. Hey, listening, don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens OTH or email us at dramaqueens at iheartradio.com. See you next time.

Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

It's back to school season for the kiddos, which means it's the perfect time to get your vacay on. Beaches are empty, resorts are quiet, and cheap Caribbean vacations has fall vacay deals up to, wait for it, 45% off. Plus, you can score more site-wide savings and take an extra $50 off your booking now through September 5th. Take it now.

Take this as your sign to pencil in a vacay this fall and turn back to school season into back to beach season. Go to cheapcaribbean.com to find your next all-inclusive vacay offer and September 5th. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Boy, I've spent definitely a significant amount of time in therapy in my life and

I think there's just so many layers to life that can be hard to navigate and having somebody there to just talk through things really makes the days easier sometimes. It's a simple truth. No matter who you are, mental health challenges can affect you and how you manage them can make all the difference.

That's why everyone should have access to mental health support that meets them where they are and helps them get through. BetterHelp provides online therapy on your schedule. It's flexible, simple to use, and more affordable than in-person therapy. Connect with a licensed therapist selected just for you. Learn more at BetterHelp.com. That's BetterHelp.com.

Ooh, I love everything about being in my forties. I feel more successful. I love like my work. I love my family. I like, I feel so secure in everything except some of my hormones. And, and what I'm learning is that everything is tied to this like gut health and internal health. And so when I can find a company that,

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For decades, the mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end. It sent the message that we can prosecute these people. Listen to Law & Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. ♪

Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years.

wild. Listen to Misspelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.