Fairy Tales & Lamps • EP107
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First of all, you don't know me. We're high school drama girl drama about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart, old-fashioned, but you're tough, girl. You can sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Drama, drama queens, drama queens.

Hey, welcome back. Episode seven. Thanks for joining us. This is Drama Queens. We are talking about episode seven of One Tree Hill, Life in a Glass House, air date November 4th, 2003. The synopsis of this episode is this is the night that Dan and Deb's annual basketball appreciation party, which what? Spurs old memories and new feelings. Okay.

Can we start by saying, though, that Joy wanted to retitle this episode Lamps? I want some fan out there to watch this episode and count how many frickin' lamps. I don't understand why. Is it always in every episode and I'm just seeing it now? I don't know. This felt real lamp heavy. For sure. Karen's cafe was like lamp...

like, I don't even, what's the word? Like lamp purgatory? They just go there to hang out? It was like going in like a, like a cool, quirky old vintage store where there's just like lamps for sale everywhere, except it's supposed to be a business.

Lamps for sale. Yeah, super weird. Lamps everywhere. Lamps everywhere. A lot of ambient lighting in this episode, which is good because we had some big feelings. You don't want to have big feelings and like overhead lighting. That's gross. That's true. No. You know what? Look, let's talk about the big star of the episode, Brooke.

Right? Bad Brooke. Because this was Brooke's episode, fully Brooke's episode. And I have all kinds of questions about her motivation and what she was dealing with and like, why did she... I mean, okay, my first... Well, okay, do we start at the beginning or do we just dive into like Brooke's issues? No, get in. Just dig in. What's great about this is that Brooke is really pushing the story forward in so many ways because...

the last episode that we saw was kind of, as we discussed, a reintroduction of a lot of the characters and the dynamics and just reminding everyone where we all are. But we needed something to start pushing everything in a new direction. And they were like, the writers, I guess, just were like, Brooke, Brooke's got to do it. And so, you know, we were all in our different spots. She's like a sexy bulldozer. But nothing would have happened if Brooke hadn't gotten in there and started moving everything around. But I was kind of shocked for the...

For the loyal friend that Brooke has established herself to be, that she would suddenly be manipulating everything so that she could get time with, she could get Lucas and get Peyton out of the way. Mm-hmm.

I don't know. Can you just tell us a little bit about where you were with her then? Yeah. I mean, God, I just like so cringy this whole episode. It's cringy for you? Oh, yeah. I hated this. You got to shake it off. It's not real, baby. It's not real. I know. I still hate it. I'm just like, oh, God, it's atrocious. But, you know,

You bring up a great point because Brooke is a device in this episode. And that's something, you know, we talked about this a few episodes back, how sometimes you have to suspend disbelief. Sometimes you have to do things you may not necessarily agree with to drive the story.

So I understood that Brooke was sort of, yeah, she was like a big shiny red truck in this episode. Literally. But what kind of truck is the question? I mean, I'm thinking like a really shiny Mac truck. Like something that really causes devastation. Covered in glitter. Yeah. Yeah, like sparkly red paint. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. But that was a thing I needed to wrap my head around. And and also such an interesting thing. You know, this was our seventh episode. This was my seventh episode ever as an actor on television. Yeah. And and to be a kid and to really be bothered by my character's behavior. Yeah.

But also have, you know, our creators and the director say, you are the literal embodiment of a pot stirrer in this episode. We need the drama. We need the tension. What I had to lean into to make it make sense, bridging that gap, was figuring out where her motivation came from.

You know, thinking about being a 16-year-old girl and really having a crush on someone who you're afraid might like your best friend. Your best friend who already has a boyfriend. And the only place you've ever been taught to feel good about yourself is when you're getting validated by other people's attention. Like, that was Brooke's whole thing. Boys' attention, yeah. Yeah, like, it was the only thing that mattered in her household, in this place, in that world. And so...

I really had to try to motivate this bad behavior by a desperate need for someone to say, I pick you. And she never got it. So it was an episode where she just kept getting rejected and then, you know, kept drinking her sorrows away and just like really by the end of it had embarrassed herself and herself.

Felt terrible. I feel terrible even thinking about it now. But, okay, so let's be real here, though, because we've established backstory that we've never gotten to see. That Peyton and Nathan do this all the time. All the time, yeah. Right? So it kind of isn't so bad when you take that into consideration because it's like, ugh.

here we go again. Like I've had those friends. Let me just make this happen faster this time. Yeah, like you're gonna do this for the 19th time this year. Yeah. Right. It softens the blow a little bit. You're right. And there is a real moment where you actually see Brooke's feelings when Peyton and Nathan are talking.

And you're both basically like, butt out, you're being horrible. And she's kind of, that is the thing of like, you guys always do this. And then in that moment when she realizes Peyton might actually like Lucas and isn't using him as a pawn to make Nathan jealous. And maybe everything is much less stable than Brooke understands in this high school world of roles and behaviors that she's come to understand how to be a part of.

You know, that made me so sad when I looked at you and said, oh, I didn't realize you were in my way or are you finally admitting? Yeah. I was like, oh, God, it's all so horrible. She's terrified. But, like, when we were in high school, for real, okay? Yeah.

My friends and I would kiss the same boys and like then call each other on the phone later and laugh about it. Like there was one weekend where we all kissed Jimmy a scene, you know? Oh my God, you're so progressive. Jimmy a scene had like a pickup truck and it would pull up in front of your house. And if your dad didn't chase him off with a baseball bat like mine, you'd go out, you'd kiss Jimmy a scene and you'd come back in and then call your friends. And he's going to die when he knows that I've called him out. But everyone kissed Jimmy a scene. Hi Jimmy.

And so it makes sense to me because that was my real life experience that it's like, oh yeah, we like the same kinds of boys. Like we all like loved Josh Hartnett and Heath Ledger in high school. You know what I mean? So like we all love the same kind of boys. It makes sense that Peyton and Brooke would like the same boys. And it's a playful competition until that moment

Where it's not. And then it's like, oh, I might have caught feelings. That's embarrassing. Yeah. You know? Yeah, this is the episode where everyone's feelings feel very real. Really real. And hurt. Yeah. Oh, man. I liked... I just liked this for Brooke. I know you're cringy, but for me...

As an actor looking at this, it's such a good buildup for where she's going, for understanding the complexities. I mean, talk about a multidimensional character, which again, a testament to you as an actress, because it would have been really easy to just play it on that one level. But you really see Brooke's cry for help, just wanting a parent and wanting like...

I mean, now that we know who Victoria is, like, you know, it makes perfect sense. It totally does. So I really liked this episode for Brooke a lot. It was it was a moment you just loved it. You love to hate. It's like, no, no, don't do it because you love her. So it's kind of OK that she's being so insane.

um let's get into the Haley of it all though because the whole guys like be careful be careful be careful is the most irritating shit in the world when you're hearing that yeah but sometimes you should listen when people tell you to be careful and you're young and you don't know what you're doing in relationships that's right that's right girl you know it's hard to know it's hard to know

Listen, if you have three friends that say red flag, rule of thumb, it's a red flag. One friend could be manipulative. Two friends could be colluding. Three friends, that's the girl code. That's a nice goalpost because you're right. One person could be projecting their own experience onto your experience. But when a collective of people... When there's a vote. When there's a quorum.

Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to listen to, though. I mean, that for all of my major relationships, I had people tell me. Red flag. Red flag. I'm concerned. I'm concerned. Are you sure? Are you sure? And I was just so stubborn and, you know, determined that like I knew everything.

I just knew what I was doing, you know? Well, we're fed those fairy tales, Joy. We're fed the fairy tales where it's like beauty and the beast, you know? We are told from a very young age, like, you can fix them. This will be a fun project. And then you'll be the boss. Then you'll be the queen because you did the hard thing, you know? Yeah. And so in this episode, all the girls are kind of battling with that thing

their versions of fairy tales. You know, you kiss the prince and it's not happily ever after. Then he gets weird and like starts talking about forever, you know? And you're like, what's happening? Yeah. That is a great point. And you know what's interesting, Joy, is like as you're saying that, I'm going, mm-hmm, same. My face is very hot. Yep. Yeah. And what's interesting about it is that in a way,

I think about it in particular for the three of us going through those real life trials and tribulations together while selling a fairy tale on screen. Yeah. Like you had Nathan and Haley on screen. Yeah.

Yes. And people used to come up, I mean, fans would come up to me all the time and say, I just hope one day I have a relationship like Nathan and Haley. And I was like, I don't want to burst your bubble, but I'm also thinking that's not, it doesn't exist. It's not real. It was written by writers in a, in a

studio. But I mean, I don't know. There's also they went through their own their own trials. I think it was the concept of sticking sticking through it together no matter what. Like doesn't he get kidnapped at some point? Like, I mean, come on. Like, yes, obviously. Guys, I can't wait for that future. One day if Jeffrey ever gets kidnapped, I hope you go. I know. But it's true. You need your friends. I mean, I was. Do you remember that guy I was engaged to in Wilmington? The teacher? Oh my God.

I didn't know we were going to be allowed to talk about that. Guys, we all did it. I know. We all did. But Moira was so worried about me. She was like rounding up people like, this is not good. Yeah, no, he can't come in the trailer. I feel like he was banned from the hair and makeup trailer. He might have been. I don't know. I mean, you know, whatever. He's a sweet guy. And I obviously have no hard feelings. But like...

I'm glad that that one didn't work out. And, you know, now I have my daughter and lots of other amazing things happen in my life. But, I mean, we make mistakes because we're like trying to figure it out. And you need friends around you to tell you. Sorry, Sophie, I didn't mean to cut you off. No, by the way, I'm just thrilled we're talking about this. I didn't know what was going on. I didn't know we would ever get here. But, like, you know what I think about, too, is...

how desperately we all wanted to prove that we were these like professional adults. And the easiest way to do that when you're 22 is to be like, look at me, I'm in a grownup relationship and I've signed a lease and I've bought real furniture that didn't, you know, it didn't come out of a box. Like we've got a mortgage. Yeah. We were all like trying to establish our things. And I have to tell you the sweetest thing is,

That Lee Norris said to me years ago that I really think applies to all of us when I realized that, you know, we've all been asked big questions by men. We decided we're not our people. Lee said to me, he was like, you know, it's really interesting how guys can like date all of their dream girls before they settle down and people say good for you. But you ladies get get treated like you don't deserve the same respect.

Oh, my God. Process of kind of trying to figure it out. And he said, I wish I don't know if he even remember this. We were like a little tipsy and having a very emotional conversation about our friendship. And he said, I wish that for you. And I apply this to all of us. Rather than people saying like judging your personal life, our personal lives, people were like, wow, they must be so special that all these guys have tried to get them to marry them.

Like that was his whole thing is he was just like, what's our running tally here? Are we at a dozen engagements? I'm like, what'd y'all do with your rings? Like, where are they? Hillary, do you have a box? Like, yeah, no, I've got a box. I've got a, I've got a treasure trove of,

But that makes so much sense. It's like you look at the clonies of the world. Yeah. And they are just so lauded for like, oh, well, they've been with everyone and they found the one. Yeah. But a girl that's had three boyfriends. They didn't settle until she was perfect. And it's like, well, we didn't settle either. What's happening? Yeah. Yeah. Guys, we're so fabulous. People want to marry us. That's all that I'm saying here. Okay. So congrats to your first fiance, Joy. Thank you. Yes. He saw. He always knew. It was the practice.

practice fiance in the future I think maybe we should just buy jewelry for each other and be a little more picky with men that would be my recommendation to all the young women listening like give jewelry to your friends and be patient romantic friendships are the best because all of the riffraff that goes along with the romance is taken out you don't have to put out it's like nothing weird it's just you surprise one another and you have beautiful meals with each other yeah

Romantic friendships are the way to go. Friends, we all.

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I remember years ago, I took a fabulous trip to Europe with a really good friend of mine. And she'd like had a really rough time and had lost her job and was just trying to figure out what was next. And I was like, you're coming on this trip with me. And on this trip, I'm your platonic husband. I'm paying for everything. And we went out to like fancy dinners and had champagne. And we had this like fabulous time. And we just cackled laughing about how we were probably having a better time than so many of the couples around us.

Who, like, were standing at their phones. So, yeah, I'm a big fan of an in-love platonic friendship. Lucas and Hayley have, like, a really lovely platonic friendship that I can't understand why they never hooked you two up, because the chemistry's there. But that moment at the end...

at the beginning where Lucas tells her it's okay. Like I get it. You know, those moments that you two keep sharing with one another, there's a physical proximity that tells the story of how long you guys have been friends. Cause that's not, you know, when you talk close, when you touch another person in your teenage years, that's an intimacy that is so lovely in friendship, but also like rare between boys and girls. So yeah.

I love that they never took it into romance territory, but boy, it looked like it came close in this episode. It seemed like they could have grown up and been a good match for each other as adults, maybe, you know? But, you know, a lot of people don't know this. Actually, I don't know if you guys know this, but when I first got to Wilmington and we were filming our first episode, there was some party at the beach and

I don't remember whose house it was. It might've been James's house or something, but- When all the boys rented the house together? Yeah. Yeah. So I went and-

You were there too, Soph. I don't know if you, I don't remember if you were there or not, Hillary, but it was late and I was out on the roof because I'm such an introvert. This is what I do at parties. Like I'm hanging out and then I'm like, oh, it's too many people. And I go stand in the bathroom for 20 minutes by myself. So there was a window open and a rooftop. So I went out on the roof and I was sitting out there and just kind of like taking a deep breath in and getting some fresh air. And

And Chad came out and sat down next to me and we hadn't really gotten a chance to spend time together at all. I mean, we had our screen test and then, you know, ran into each other in hallways and things, but...

We sat down on the roof and we just were like hanging out, talking about life, talking about our friends and people that we had grown up with. And my best friend at the time from high school had been a boy. And so I was really comfortable having that sort of platonic friendship. It didn't feel weird or awkward to me. And yeah.

And I just remember that that set a tone for us. And we sat out there for like an hour just talking. And it really set a foundation for us on set in the future from that point forward that like we, he was always, he always just felt like my, like my little brother, you know what I mean? Yeah.

He's goofy and like messing around and doing pranks and all this stuff. But I really cared about him. I really had a big heart for him from that. Just that one night sitting out, I was like, oh, you know, buddy. Buddy. He had his dog living in that house. You know what is also so sweet about thinking about that? I feel like I can picture it. I remember that house, all those boys having a garden. We went to garden the front yard of that house. So just for you guys at home, all the boys, so like...

um brett claywell and james and chad and did anyone else live in that house with them

did lee live there i don't think he did because he was going back and forth from wake forest maybe he would crash there i think there was one other guy there's another maybe one of the basketball players one of the best but they all rented this house at the beach together and it was not like a beach house it was made out of like old brick it had like gargoyles and shit on it so it was always dark inside yes it was architecturally the weirdest thing i've ever seen on the beach it didn't match anything else no

And we went to the hardware store one day. Yeah. And we were like, these boys need to get it together. They needed a mop? And we planted plants. We put flowers in. Yeah, we did.

They had all these big stone urns, but they didn't have any like plants. So the place looked terrifying. It looked haunted. It looked super haunted. But it's so sweet because I remember that. And I remember like all of us kind of milling around trying to, you know, figure out what was going on and picturing you two having that conversation. It makes me think about that sweet last scene in the episode. Yeah.

Where Haley's crying and Lucas comes and sits next to her. And I will say, I always had those moments watching it being like, this is going to be the most. But I love in hindsight that they never crossed the boundary for the characters because you guys were able to model a genuine, kind friendship between a teenage boy and a teenage girl. Yeah. And that was really rare. Yeah.

That was really rare on TV that people didn't, you know, cross a hormonal line at one point or another. And you guys never did. It wasn't a show that lasted nine years, too. You know, you'd think at some point. Yeah. But no. So the scene where we I go to his bedroom and I'm like tying the tie. So I had to learn how to tie a tie because I never had to learn that. Don't you? No. No.

It was harder. I mean, I'm glad I did it on my neck and then put it on him because it was originally blocked so that he would stand in front of the closet mirror or wherever the mirror was and I was going to come up behind him and tie the tie around his neck. And it was so awkward. You're half his size. He's also tall. I could not figure it out.

It was so awkward. So we were just like, okay, just put it around your neck and tie it on your own neck and then put it on him. So that's, that worked. But that was the first watching that episode. This was the first time I really saw Haley as she's like a little mini adult, like really just try. She was actually so much more confident than I actually was because I was a mini adult, but I was a mini adult facade, deeply insecure on the inside. And yeah,

it was cool to see Haley. Like she was, she was kind of badass. She was a tough girl. She was really quick in this episode. Like the stuff in the car with Peyton, you know, all her like quips with, you know, Nathan, with everybody. She's so fast, which is counter to Peyton, who is like sullen and very slow and very like, I'm going to take my time. Yeah.

I don't know that she's quippy in these first few episodes. It's like there's, at least in her conversations with Haley, it's like, I'm going to take the slow beat because I'm admitting something that is not comfortable. And Haley's so sharp in her past. She seems to trust Haley in this episode all of a sudden, which is...

I think Peyton is like one of those kids. I remember seeing like an episode of Law & Order SVU where there was like a girl that had been abused when she was younger. So the result as an adult was that she latched on to people really fast and like was like, do you love me? I'm going to give you like a really important piece of me.

And I'm just going to trust that you don't mess it up. And of course, like everybody messes it up. Of course. I think Peyton does that. It's like, Hey, do you want to know my deepest, darkest secrets? I know we just met, you know, there's a, there's like an abused kid syndrome in there. Um,

And so, yeah, I think she very quickly is like, well, Brooke's being weird. Are you my, it's that book. Are you my mother? Yeah. Are you my best friend? Are you my best friend? Yeah. Yeah. We're all that way though when we're little, aren't we? Like, are you, is it you? Are we going to be friends till we're 90? Is it you? Maybe. And I think especially for kids, and I think this is something that, you know, Brooke and Peyton in particular shared, um,

was the narrative of absent parents. You know, like Haley, we didn't see the family, but it was known that Haley came from this big family and everyone really loved each other. And with Peyton's mom having passed and dad always being away and Brooke's parents like always being on a business trip and her just being alone. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, it's no wonder that each of us is seeking safety and validation somewhere. You're trying to figure out where you can have a safe friendship. And I'm like, if I could just get a boy to love me, then maybe I would be okay. If I can just get a boy to love me. The other...

thing in this, you know, for people who are adrift, like the girls are. Karen, who has seemingly been adrift in her own hometown for the last 16, 17 years. Mm-hmm.

running into Whitey at the party and him reminding her of the girl she was and like being like, I'm proud of you was such a, it was a really lovely moment. And I loved that they had the sense to put in his dialogue, a reference to how happy it's been making him to see her at the gym again, you know, watching Lucas play. Yeah.

Because it makes you realize that even though as an audience we haven't seen them have a moment at a basketball game, it gives you the emotional payoff of learning that Whitey's been tracking Karen being there. And it's so, it's just lovely. And the compliment that he gives her about raising a good young man. Yeah. I mean, that's amazing.

As a mom, like when you're, when somebody comes up and tells you like, hey, you did a really good job. Your kid's amazing. It's like, there's no greater compliment you could possibly give me. Do you guys stay in touch with your teachers? Do you talk to your teachers? No. Do you? Oh my God. From high school? All the time. I talk to two of my favorite teachers. Yeah. That's awesome. It's, I just did a Zoom. I never knew that was an option. Okay. Let me tell you a little trick. All the teachers are parts of book clubs, right? Or they have like,

They don't call them drinking clubs, but they're drinking. I know what you guys are up to at home. It's like they all have their once a month meeting where they meet at a winery and they discuss a topic. And so because everyone's been doing it over Zoom...

I did a meeting with like my teachers from fourth grade through graduation and just like wept the whole time because these people, they don't, they don't, maybe they do understand that they're like your parents forever.

for a little while. You know, like they shape you in a way that's forever. And, you know, you want to just like then pick their brain about everything ever. And so I love that Whitey is that person in our show. I wish we had more teachers like that in our show. Yeah. Because like my English teacher, my U.S. history teachers, my government teachers, like all those teachers were so vital. And we've got Whitey, but like...

We could have done more. We could have had a chick teacher. That would have been cool. That would have been nice. Haley became that later. Yeah, for sure. But it would have been nice to see that influence. It would have been nice to see that influence in her life. Yeah, especially to know who made her so passionate about tutoring and everything would have been cool. Yeah. What's the backstory? Did you make one up? Oh, did you? I might have.

I might have. I don't know. I just figured like she's really smart and she likes helping people. And especially as a sibling in a big family, you get used to learning how to help and lend a hand all the time. So it probably was super second nature to her and she could make some money. Kids from big families. It's like, sorry, kids, I don't have money. I can't give you guys all an allowance. Like go get a job. So that tracks. I like that. She's an entrepreneur. I like it. Yeah.

Can we talk about Deb and Karen? Oh, so good. More of this. I love this relationship. This dynamic is so great. I wonder if they planned that all along or if they just saw like how...

and Barbara were playing it and they were like, okay, we'll do this now. You know, so much of the season one was fly by the seat of our pants because all the stuff that they had planned kind of got thrown out the window because now we were in competition with all these other teen dramas like the OC and it was like, what was some of the stuff they had planned? Do you know things? Babe, I,

all I know is that everything was supposed to be narrated by Whitey talking to Camilla. It was supposed to be eight mile is what I was told. And so kind of these more like juicy, dramatic narratives were...

you know, I think the element of having like two sexy moms became a thing because Desperate Housewives was a very big show, you know, and moms on the OC were super sexy. And so they're like, well, let's like bring in these like hot moms that then become friends and then later can be frenemies, you know, that building that arc. But watching these two women work together, it's like, why would we ever split this up? These two are amazing. Well, they have such great chemistry. Yeah.

Yeah.

It makes you squirm. Watch them. And he can't, it's so genuine what he's seeing that he's frozen and he can't like interject with some shitty quip. Yeah. You know? Why do you think he didn't rush over there and stop it? Why did he walk away? He actually made the choice to, we have to ask Paul this when we have him on the show because it's such a, that's kind of a

really big moment to just leave them alone instead of trying to interject and control everything. He got out-gamed. Deb out-gamed him. I'm telling you, man, she wears the pants. Oh, yeah, for sure. This is her punishment for his behavior at that party last week. You know? It's like, you know what? You embarrassed me. You misbehaved. I am going to make

an example out of you, this party. And now all your friends are going to watch me not only invite them, but give them preferential treatment while they're here. You know, it's, it's a power play by example. I mean, it's a power play, but like you were saying, when we were watching, there's an element of leading by example that she does that is really nice to see instead of

Typical television, everybody loves Raymond, Housewives, where they're just barking orders and always telling him what's wrong and what to do and how to fix it. Dan, why can't you just be nice, you know? Right, you know. So what is it like Archie Bunker and the Honeymooners and stuff? It's nice to see a wife that is, she's just being herself. She's got boundaries and she's leading by example. It's really beautiful to me. Mm-hmm.

All right. And Beth Crookham. Beth Crookham. We all have this on our list. You guys, we keep running lists while we're watching the episode. And I love that we've all arrived at the Beth Crookham point of our lives.

So, Joy, do you want to tell everybody at home who Beth is in real life? Beth in real life, well, she was one of our producers on the show, though uncredited as a producer for many, many years. If ever, did she ever finally get a producer credit? They said she was like an assistant for, you know, like a producer's assistant. She worked her ass off. I mean, she worked harder, arguably harder than several of our producers. But Beth was, I mean...

I mean, she's like the mayor of Wilmington. Like she knows everybody. She's involved in everything. Yep. She can get you reservations. She knows everybody that runs every restaurant. She knows all the locations. Arts councils, whatever you want. And actress extraordinaire shows up to tell Deb that the pies went to some other party. A bar mitzvah. A bar mitzvah.

We were so excited. It really was like shooting in a small town because had we been in LA, had we been in New York, you know, we wouldn't have known the day players on the show who would come on for like five, six lines. Watching it back, we're like, oh my God, there's so-and-so. Hey, there's so-and-so. There's so-and-so. It's such a nice reunion. All right. This is what you do when the love of your life, the apple of your eye, the bag you would beg for can wait no longer. You ready? You

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Beth is a force and she would have to do all the stuff that no one else wanted to do with us, including ADR.

Oh, yes. Which is additional dialogue recording. And basically a set therapist. Yes. Like, you know, the woman that we would all talk to about all the craziness that was going on. And she was like just dealing with everything. And she's an artist and she collects art and she's like an interior designer. And she runs this charity that she's back and forth. Rwanda, yeah.

in Rwanda all the time. I mean, what an amazing woman. We should find a link actually to some of the charity work that she does so people can go check it out and support her. But that was just so fun to see our friend in that episode. And then, you know, we get to see again, Karen kind of saving the day for Deb or did Deb? It was vice versa, man. It was a little moment of partnership. Yeah.

After, you know, after the party is like the mean moms were leaving. They're like, where were those desserts from? Shitty sherry.

Who I love. She had the same like haircut as Deb. Like I love how they styled all the cheerleaders to dress like Brooke and then they groomed all the moms to look like Deb. Strong move. Really smart. Also Deb's one liner. Speaking of her planning this perfect party and working with Karen, when she catches Dan flirting with that bartender and says she's young enough to be your daughter. And in this town, she might just be.

That bartender was played by Melissa Egan, by the way, who, if you're a fan of Hallmark or we could find out some of the other stuff that she's done. She's a, she's a, she's a good working actress. Missy Egan, Melissa Egan now. Yeah. We had a lot of, we had a lot of people come on our show that continued really successful careers. Who's your, who is the one that always makes you scratch your head? Because I know who mine is. I'm like, how did that person come on our show? Yeah.

Evan Peters on our show. Oh my God. Of course. Oh my God. He's the greatest. Even at the time, he was like, I don't know what I'm doing on this show. I'm going to go do like much cooler than this. You guys. He totally was.

She's so cool. But it is fun seeing people kind of like learn the business and come up through the ranks like on a show from 20 years ago. Because I did that on Dawson's Creek, you know, like my that was my first like, what am I doing? Yeah. It's fun to see those little guest spots because you forget that everybody has that one first job. Yeah. Joy, what was yours? Yeah.

Felicity was one of those for me. I mean, my first job ever was like a dog commercial or something when I was 12. Aww.

But yeah, in terms of shows that charmed was another big one. Another kind of guest spot. I feel like I saw you dressed as a princess on that. Oh, yeah. I was a busty princess. I was like, it was me and Rose McGowan having some sorcery, you know, battle. That's up my alley. Loved her, by the way. Was there a wand? She was so fun. She had a wand, I think. I did not have a wand. You deserved a wand. I did not. They really made a big deal out of my boobs in that episode, though.

Well, that's exciting. That's so fun. There they are. There they are. So what was yours? Oh, man. I mean, my very first job, I did a Kit Kat commercial. That's how I got my SAG card. That's delicious. And then I worked, I did a scene in Van Wilder with Ryan Reynolds, who literally, when they were like, get on your mark, I just looked around and he was like,

I was like, oh, you're nice. And then TV, right before we did our show, I did a couple of episodes of Nip Tuck. Oh, that's right. You were sexy in that too. You know, they had you pegged as this kind of like vampy character. And I feel like...

When that came out, it kind of lit the fire on our show. Like, oh, she can do that. Like, that's what she does. Okay. And I was like, I don't know. No, no, no, no, no. I was like, I am very much more comfortable in tomboy roles. Please leave me alone. All-girl school. Yeah. So, like, Brooke was really a push for me. Sophia, you got a role that I wanted. I did? A pilot. A few years prior to that, it was a...

It was like a pop star. You were some super pop star. It was a movie. That's right. And I remember going in for the audition and Britney Spears' name was on the call sheet. What? It was a big, big movie. Really big movie. And I found out later, I think when we were auditioning for our show...

And maybe, maybe because I met you in the lobby or something, I probably looked you up and I don't even know how it came up. Something, somebody, somehow I realized that you had gotten that part. I was like, no way. But what happened to that, by the way? It was a huge deal. It was actually pretty crazy. The studio wanted to stand up. God, you guys, this was in the era, prime time, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Mandy Moore. Yeah.

And they wanted to do a movie about a young pop star. And the idea was so weirdly foreshadowing that this girl kind of has like a nervous breakdown on tour and decides to in disguise all the movies where they just put Rachel Lee Cook in glasses, go home and go to school like in her hometown, but just disguised as not herself. Yeah.

And it was a really rigorous process. The auditions were crazy and it was at MGM. And they wanted to do a movie with two options, meaning two sequels. Sequels, yeah. And they wanted a six album record deal. And they were going to try to stand up an in-house record label with this movie. So imagine in 2008,

or two. I don't even know. I feel so cheated. Oh, I know. So it was going to be the next Britney Spears. You don't even understand. I was like working with hi-hat. I was working with the best choreographers in the music business, like recording music and dancing my face off. And, but it was going to be to stand up the label and

And do the movie and then launch a tour and like do a full thing. It was a $65 million project. It was a star making machine. It was a huge, huge deal. And they like something changed hands. I remember at the studio.

And then there was a whole conversation where like they couldn't get that much money. I mean, she's so much money. Yeah. And it all sort of fell apart. I mean, if it was boys wearing tights being superheroes, they'd find the money. But it all basically came apart in the technicalities of them trying to launch a record label and a movie. Yeah.

And so we didn't do it. That's a lot of spinning plates. Like I get it. A lot of spinning plates, but God, I had such a good time like working on it. Prepping for that. But hold on a second. Then like, when are you going to put out an album? Cause those skills don't disappear. I know so. Guys, are we going to start a girl group? Let's just do it. Let's just do everything. Like what else are we doing? You know?

It's a girl group. Yeah, we don't have enough things to do. We should absolutely write a record. I would love that. We're so bored. We have so much time. Oh my God. Can you imagine? Guys, we got to get in the van, put a camera in there and hit the road. Yeah. Well, that's our next gig. All right. Don't worry, kids. Coming to an arena near you.

It's going to be fantastic. Drama Queen's the band. Talking about musicians. Can we talk about our sweet, sweet Brian Greenberg? Singing Elliot Smith and the reveal of baby Jenny. Yeah. Yeah. He's so good in this episode because he's so natural. Yeah. Yeah.

He was a fully formed adult. I felt like I was still molding myself. And Greenberg just showed up and he's like, I went to NYU. I'm good at this. Watch. He was like, oh, yeah, you want me to be quiet and be having an internal dialogue with myself and then you need me to sing? Yeah, I can do that. The rest of us were like, oh, what was that? He was like the real Lucas. Oh, my God, yes. He was real Lucas. He was real Lucas.

Greenberg totally is real life Lucas. Yeah. Joy, you nailed it. His reveal is great. The way he doesn't treat Brooke...

Yeah. But he also knows how to move past. Like, he's a nice boy. A nice boy. Yeah. Which is why it was so like, wait, what? That he had a kid? Because on television at that point, like, fast kids, bad kids were the ones that had children in high school. And so to see, like, the lovable, you know, philosophical jock as the person with the baby...

was like, what? That's crazy talk. I'd never seen anything like that. I hadn't either. I thought it was such a great opportunity to just, as that storyline goes on, to just see consequences of different, consequences of your actions when you're in high school. But it wasn't like shamed or harped on where he was embarrassed or it was just like about...

Here's a situation we're in. How do we treat each other right? And that is something I could so get behind. It's just such a beautiful message. And I loved that he carried that storyline so beautifully. And there was something so special. And you guys pointed this out when we were watching it. In the moment where

You know, he's singing and it's revealed that it's him. And then you realize he has this baby and he's putting his little girl to bed. And then Nathan walks in and finds Brooke like passed out. And you guys like almost made me cry just observing like they're just two little girls who need a parent to put them to bed. But Brooke doesn't have parents. There was no one to put her to bed. It just crushed me. It crushed me.

Yeah, that was really hard to watch. And it was, you know, we had sharp editors on the show. That is... Yes. I jokingly say... That was John Kretschmer, I think. I believe in the power of the edit. Yeah. And...

And I do because we didn't shoot those things at the same time. I don't know that they were in that sequential order in the script, but to put them back to back that way with those camera moves, it was done intentionally. Yeah. Without making the audience feel like they're being beat over the head with it. Yeah. Yeah. You were just somebody's little girl. We have to talk about the kiss. Oh God. We have to talk about the kiss.

That was a moment. I felt robbed. I have to say, I mean, all this buildup. Yeah. But A, it felt like it was too soon, but maybe that's because we're binging and not watching it week to week to week. I mean, binging as in like every few days we're doing this. So maybe for the audience, it didn't feel that soon, but it felt very sudden to me. Also maybe just because I'm an adult and I'm like, these young kids, they're just like moving way too fast. Yeah.

But, sorry, no, I just want to say, like, I felt a little robbed that with all the buildup, the kiss was, like, so... It was forced. It was hard. It was vengeful. Brooke made it happen. Yeah. Yeah, it was... I didn't get that soft romantic moment. No, because it's not a soft romantic moment, you know? No. That is...

something that I have struggled with watching a lot of teenage movies, teenage TV and stuff like that is that you see teenagers going into romantic moments like adults would. Like, I'm going to move in real slow and I'm going to kiss you real gentle and hold your face. And that's bullsh**.

You guys, it's just total bullshit. Like you're gonna like knock teeth. You're gonna like, you know, Peyton is kissing him. You're right. Because she's mad that her friend is being a real asshole in front of everyone and forcing her hand. And her ex-boyfriend's been a nightmare. And it's just like, you know what? Fine. Everybody here. Like that's what she's saying. Yeah.

And it's not until later where Lucas comes and finds her that I think she feels guilty about like the show of it all, you know, which is why the invitation to like sit on the swing and then go kiss in Nathan's parents' room, you know? Yeah.

It's a little bit of an olive branch, but it's still a f*** you. It's still a vindictive move because she's purposely taking Lucas into Dan Scott's bedroom to turn her nose up at the power structure in this little town. And so I was for that. Like that made perfect sense. That felt like something that a 16 year old girl would do, you know, like to hell with the patriarchy, you know, I'll do what I want. Um,

But with this guy that she really likes. But yeah, but I, she had a hard time accessing that vulnerability. I thought it was enough that they could just like stand there and like kiss, right? Or stand there and like open mouth kiss if you're going to like, you know. When I was in high school, the first time you kissed a boy, like that was it. Like you'd make out for like 20 minutes. Cool. Okay. Well, I'll see you on Monday. It's cool. The way it was written was very graphic. Yeah.

Which made me nervous because it was like you couldn't question it because it's like, well, this is what's written out. So we have to get the shot of you unbuttoning his shirt and we have to get the shot of you kissing down his chest. And so Chad was cool to like leave a white tank top on underneath his button up shirt. So I wasn't just like kissing his bare body because that's weird. We'd all known each other for like a couple months, a couple weeks. And it's high school.

It's not. We cared about the example we were setting for other young girls too. I was so whacked out about it, you guys. Like so whacked out about it because they wanted me like kissing all the way down his body, down to like his belt and undoing his, like, I don't know that you see it, but I had to undo his belt.

And so Robbie McNeil, our director, knew that I was very concerned. And I was like, I'll give you like two takes, three takes max, but I'm not doing this all night. Like this is inappropriate. If you can't catch it, like...

And I like looking back, if I heard a little 21 year old on set being like, you get two takes, I'd be like, this little monster is bossy. But I just really didn't want to do it. And I was so nervous. And so I went back to the hair and makeup trailer. My manager, Meg, was in town for this, who I'm still with. And she was like, I don't know.

And she, I mean, I was like crying in my trailer. I'm like, I don't want to do this. I'm just so, it feels dirty. It feels like they're trying to sex everything up. Because Brooke's being so weird in this episode. Like everything just feels so heightened. Yeah, they really like turned it up to a 10 out of nowhere. It just was exhausting. You know they got a note from the network. Yeah, that's it. So I went into the hair and makeup trailer and they're like cleaning me up because I'd gotten upset, you know. And JoJo.

Our hairdresser is like, yo, girl, hold on one second. And I was like, okay. And we had a bottle of grapefruit vodka on ice. And so all the women in the trailer got together and they're like, you may feel like you're in on this like all by yourself, but we are here. We're standing right behind the monitor. Aww.

Like, cheers to you being a badass kiddo. And like, we all did this shot together. Meg was like, I've never done that on a set before, you know? And it was such a moment of sisterhood that really solidified my friendships behind the camera. Because I knew we were going to have to continue to do stuff that felt weird. I felt like a prostitute. Yeah. Right? Like, it was the first moment that I was really like, I'm kissing someone for money. I'm getting paid to do this like performative thing.

That I don't want to do. Yeah, it was just, there's a morality thing where you're like, oh my God, am I a sex worker? In a way. Yeah, where's the line? You know, is this OnlyFans in 2003? It's hard to figure out.

Wow. And so knowing that there was this kind of army of women that were like, you can come here. Like, we'll take care of you. Made it a much safer space. Meanwhile, Chad's like, were you drinking? I'm like, me? You're like, I had one shot. I'm a professional. I'm fine. I think about how some of those like rituals and support systems are so meaningful in those arenas. And I mean...

I even remember, I just remember feeling so grateful, like in between takes doing that party stuff that we were like, like in the corner because it felt, it feels horrible to have to behave in a way you don't want to behave. And whether that's like having to be physically intimate with someone because your characters are intimate or like, I struggled so much with this idea of Brooke being

of what the motivations were and thank God we found out about them eventually but her being a mean girl like it was so awful and being able to have space all of us together to like really separate out that energy from like you're saying what we were doing behind the scenes I mean our hair and makeup trailer was that was like Shangri-La man we had a lot of fun in there

Yeah. And like, we're so lucky that we got to have that. It's about finding your safe space. Yeah. Yeah. And it makes me now want to create that for the, on the next show that I'm on, I want to create that for the younger women that come in. That is such a Southern thing too, by the way, like the Southern hospitality and women just surrounding each other with support. I, I wish I,

That I had been in a different space in my life at the time where I could have accepted a lot more of that and been open because I feel like I was, I received the least of that because I pushed it all away because I didn't trust a lot of people just because of my own issues and the stuff I had going on in my life. But, you know, so I love hearing that that was happening for you guys and it makes me excited to like find a way to create that in the next space that I get to go into, you know. Yeah.

Well, it's why I'm so grateful that we have this. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, this is the best. Like, we've made it. All the broads have reached out and been like, yo, girl, would you want somebody to come on and talk about some real dirt? We'll come on. Which I think having our crew gals on, it's like y'all are excited for the actors to come on. JoJo and Jane Beck getting on this show. Woo! It's going to get so spicy. Dangerous!

Yeah. Well, guys, should we spin the wheel? I think it's time. I'm very into a wheel. Most likely to. We need a theme song for this. We really do. We need a jingle. Oh, boy. All right. Most likely to. Get back with their ex. Get back with their ex. Not it, friends. Oh. Not it. No. I mean, I think prior to this episode, we would have said it would be Peyton, right? Because her and Nathan were so off and on through high school.

Agreed. But no. No. I think Nathan. Not Peyton. Nathan was most likely to get back with his ex. There you go. Yeah, because he was sort of like, I'll just go, I guess, wherever. Yeah, he was making an effort.

This is fine. Do you want a kiss? See, it's exactly what it is. It's Lee Norris' point. Invert the way we talk about it. And be like, these girls are just so amazing that everyone wants to be with them forever. Listen, we can't help this. Okay, so Nathan, but who, like, in real life is part of our cast? Let's see. Who was real, just sentimental? It's, you know, everyone's, like, married now with kids, so we can't say it. Yeah. We're like...

Yeah, I don't know. Most likely to get back together with their ex. Did anyone back together with an ex on the show? I'm trying to think. It's like everybody kissed everybody. I definitely have a habit of breaking up and getting back together with the same people for a while. You do. I've only done that once and it was a terrible... It's because you're sympathetic, Joy. It's because you believe... I'm like, once you're dead to me, you're dead to me forever. I'm never going to look at you again, you monster. Um...

Yeah. All right. Look, no, I'm good with Nathan. I think Nathan's a good, I think that's a solid choice. I'm into it. Okay. Done and done. We have some fan questions or anything that we want to hit up. Guys, I love questions. We're getting the nicest messages on like, in like our DMS and stuff. Um,

Mandy wants to know, how did you each feel about the lack of parental guidance each of your characters had, which we kind of touched on? I never really paid much attention to it as a teenager, but now it really breaks my heart that none of your characters had parents in the first few seasons and mostly went to Karen when you needed a parent. Yeah, it's true. Or Karen, having to deal with all our crap. Or Haley. They went to Haley all the time.

Yeah. He was always trying to clean up messes, I feel like. You should have just been able to be a kid, damn it. I know. You know, I think that...

So much of my real life identity was formed by having all these boundaries. Like I was the kid that had the earliest curfew and I wasn't allowed to go out of a 10 mile radius from my parents' house. And, you know, on New Year's Eve and Y2K, I was supposed to be in the basement with the family, like bunking down, you know?

And my big rebellion was that I went to my best friend's party, you know? Those boundaries defined me. And so it was very difficult for me to portray not one, not two, but like multiple kids that didn't have that at all. It just felt weird. Yeah, I think that worked for the show, though. I mean, it's a show about kids and what we were going through. And I think we had somebody that represented...

In some ways, like a piece of something that everybody could relate to in their part of life. Having a parent, not having a parent, coming from a big family, having a parent that was gone, having a parent that was absent, having a parent that was very present, having parents that were present but emotionally absent. The boys had parents. Do you feel at all like they knew how to write for boys and parental figures personally?

but they just didn't understand how girls work in that capacity? Could be. I think they probably didn't understand, and to be frank, I don't think they cared. I think they...

planned on, you know, a show about brothers where the girls were kind of accessories and the fans really loved the girls. The girls watching the show identified with us. Thank you all. And I think very quickly, because I remember...

about one of our bosses going in and literally like wiping off stuff on the board and putting girls' names up on the board, like more of this. Wow. And I think we kind of took them by surprise. People like these names? They're in skirts. You know?

I think that was fine. That's enough identity for them. And I think that then there's the practicality, you know, we all now have directed and produced and we know what the behind the scenes stuff is. I think there was the practicality of, oh, we've got like 10 people in a cast. We can't hire another eight parents. Yeah. Yeah.

So, you know, I think they were like, we'll get there eventually, but more actors are expensive. Yeah. Well, we bring in parents later and, you know, we find out more about that later on. It's a slow burn. Hey, hold on. I want to, I want to do this next question. Cause I think something like there's a bell going off for me. We have a question from Audrey that says you thought Peyton was the villain, right? Which I did. I was told like, Oh, she's super unliked. Yeah. But,

But especially in episode seven, Brooke comes out as the villain. The way she treats Peyton and even Haley, who she didn't really know yet, is the complete opposite of what was introduced before. It feels like she's just being mean to be mean. And then she goes on to ask, when you were filming these episodes, did you feel like this was something that made sense for her to do? Well, no, but like bells are going off now.

in knowing that they were concerned about the audience not liking Peyton, did Brooke get thrown under the bus in order to like get the fans to like move their... I don't think so. She might have.

it made the most sense for Brooke to be the stirrer of the episode. I think like there was no other option. I think it's probably a little bit of both. I mean, there's a business element to every decision they made about us. Yeah. Right. Yes. Yeah. And it is a 180. You know, we just established in the last episode, like throwing pom poms at each other, like, oh, my God, I love you so much. And then it's like,

Yeah. Yeah, I think it went more extreme than it might have, perhaps to help shift some of that. And I think... Okay, that makes sense. I do think that Brooke made sense to be the shit stirrer. And I... And wear that red dress. They took it so far. Woof. Literal devil in a red dress. Woof.

And the matching red earrings and red lipstick. So much red, just red everywhere. Yeah, bad girls. My hair weirdly got really red in this episode. Like when we were walking through the quad, I was like, whoa, what is, what's happening there? So yeah, I would imagine it's a little bit of both. But I think that interestingly, whether it was a device or not, taking her so far, kind of seeing her

Yeah. Yeah.

That's our little scientist right there. She's going to figure out how the brain developed in Brooke Davis. God bless you, Sophia. We've got a great episode next week. I can't wait, you guys. Episode eight is The Search for Something More. Do you remember what happens in this one?

No. What happens? I don't know. I can't wait to find out. All right. So you guys at home, watch the episode along with us. And then we'll all be back to chat about it next week. Yeah. Let's do it. Can't wait. Bye, everybody. See you next week. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at DramaQueensOTH. Or email us at DramaQueens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're School Drama Girl Drama.

Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

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