Bedroom Talks • EP119
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Guys

I want to light a candle as a cleanse because we got rid of some bad energy and we got our show back. I'm telling you, that's the best Halloween gift we could have ever gotten is this spiritually clean One Tree Hill episode. I love this episode. I loved it.

This episode had the same kind of like magic. Yeah. Remember when we all cried in the beginning when we first watched the episode where Lucas turns to Peyton and goes, hey, your art matters. It's what got me here. Yeah. Like, we got our guy back. Yeah, we did. We got our show back. I mean, this was definitely back to echoing the first episode, echoing the pilot. Well, and we had two major factors here. Actually, three major factors here that were fantastic.

And we'll dig into all of them. Director Tom Wright is a favorite of ours. We had a female screenwriter, Karen Usher. Hey, Karen. You can tell a woman had her hands all over this. This is a good Karen, everybody. We love her. My God. And the third is that Chad...

He was so good in this.

And the synopsis that we have, so history seems to be repeating itself in Treehill. Lucas has just learned that Brooke may be pregnant and it's a big deal. They're trying to make a decision about their future. What are they going to do? Brooke is really stressed out, doesn't know who to go to. She seems constantly alone and trying to figure out where answers are. Meanwhile, there's a lot to catch up on with Karen and Keith and his proposal.

And also, this episode is big time about the SEX with Nathan and Abby. And the tattoo. And the tattoo. There's so much to cover here. And I love the way all of it was handled. I am in love with this episode. This was delicious. Can we talk about the elephant in the room? Yeah. Let's talk about the elephant in the room because we're going to have fun on this episode, guys. This is going to be a long one. Elephant in the room is that we caught so much shit.

for talking about, like, Lucas's character in a judgmental light because we didn't like the carousel episode. That one was... Oh, that was a rough one. It was a real rough one. The cursed episode. And the feedback we got... One, like, we tried to laugh a lot of it off together. But there was some of it that was... Y'all were really angry? That was nuts! But... And it was like...

Like, you know, a loud minority. There were some people who specifically came at Sophia in a way that we're not going to do that, folks. Hard pass. It was pretty gnarly. Girl, I screen grab things. I'll send it to you. It was crazy. The violence, the verbal violence that ensued was crazy. Well, and something I think is important for us to highlight, too. Like, I've really spent a long time thinking about this because I read some shit.

that like, as you know, made me unable to sleep for days.

I only know how to make sense of things that are very emotionally hard and triggering, whether it's for me or for you guys. Or by the way, y'all read the news. Like, you know what happened to us on this show. Yeah. And I only know how to make sense of that stuff by like leaning into data. It's why I know a lot about statistics. It's why I know a lot about, you know, by what age most women have experienced sexual harassment or assault. I've had to learn about it to understand how it happened to us.

Because we were smart girls. Yeah. Indeed. And like for us to go, oh, wow, we can see that a grown man who treated all of us that way in that episode in particular wrote himself and his like fantasies for gross male behavior into a character who we love. Who's a 16 year old, by the way. Yes. Like it's okay for us not to like that. And like, oh God, I'm like, my chest is like shaking thinking about this.

Like, guys, we don't want to talk about him, but we hated what they made Lucas do in that episode because it reminded us of a man who abused a lot of us. Yeah. And to then, as I'm like, well, you know, I'm trying to make sense of it with this, that, and the other, have, like, fans sending me tweets from other fans saying, like, Sophia's such a militant bitch. We can't wait for her fiance to realize this and leave her. Hard pass. Don't like it. Don't want it. What?

you guys. Well, and it just kind of defeats the purpose of a rewatch because we have such a delicious episode this week. Yeah. And we couldn't enjoy it in the way that we do if we didn't

criticize the stuff that was bad. You know what I mean? It's going to be both, kids. Let's all hang on for the ride. And we all remember Lucas as the Lucas in this episode, as a good guy who showed up for people. And so for us to realize that there was a period of time where the writers wrote him to stir the between us, we didn't remember that. It's blowing our minds. And P.S., we have a right to have our minds blown.

Let's all hang on for the ride. Something that I also think is really important, you know, that Hillary, you and I have talked a lot about and Joy, you certainly witnessed for us. Like Haley and Nathan started off as very beloved, but Brooke and Peyton as characters were pitted against each other. And guys, Hillary and I have spent 18 years getting bullied about like being bad and

Team Brooke! Team Brooke! We hate Peyton, we're Team Brooke! It's so intense for us. And so, please just remember, we haven't seen this show in 18 years. We remember Lucas as the Lucas in this episode. He's a good friend who shows up and who talks and who listens. And so for us, it was really mind-blowing to be like,

oh my God, he was playing these girls. It was a revelation for me. I'm like, hold on a second. Yeah. So just let us feel our feelings, please. And God bless us. God bless us. God bless us. We learned so much in this first season. And we had such good people affiliated with this specific episode. It was Moira-heavy.

It was Tom Ride heavy. It was a female voice writing these monologues for these boys, Nathan and Lucas and Dan. Great revelations from Dan in this episode too. Yes. Okay. Joy, get into it. Let's start with the, the Karen, the Karen and the Keith. Okay. So that, yeah, that was a pickup that Keith proposed at the end of the last episode. And wow, I, I,

It got me thinking when Lucas went to talk to Keith, when Lucas was making his rounds, because in this episode, Lucas just apparently drove around everybody's house. But isn't that what you do when you're like anxious? When you're anxious, you're like, I want to talk to everybody. Yeah, it was great. So, but when he was talking with Keith, Keith was talking about how he knew Lucas when he was a baby and why he stuck around when Karen was pregnant. And it made me think about how long they had known each other, really, before.

Wow. Why did it take so long for Keith to make a move with Karen? It feels like it could have happened a lot earlier, but they got into this zone of comfort of a friendship. And I guess maybe it's hard to move past that once you are in that zone. Yeah.

But it hurt my heart so much for Keith. And I really thought Karen did love him and feel those feelings for him. But I guess not. So Karen says, I had to go find the rest of me. I've got to find the rest of me. Guys, when we watched that, the three of us went, it's such a profound moment.

moment for her. And again, what a testament to Karen Usher, the writer of this episode, who gave us a deeper perspective on everyone's feelings and motivations and the things people were struggling with. But certainly for so many of the women on screen to talk about their identities, you know, for Karen to say, I've only ever known myself as Lucas's mother. And

This was my first time being alone. And I want to find out who else I am. I mean, the world's a bigger place than Tree Hill. Yeah. Yeah. It's so tough. But also, look, you can say that for your whole life. You can put off every new challenging experience by saying something like that also. So there's another side to this. It's not just to say, I need to find myself there. There's an element of like, she's just not that into you in that statement because she

At the end of the day, if you want to find yourself, you can also do that in the context of a relationship that's going to challenge you and teach you how to grow in lots of new ways. You could do it together. You could do it together. We could go to Italy together. Exactly. But then we wouldn't have TV drama. Right. Of course. And also, you know, it's a whammy at the end then when she's given Keith this kind of –

gentle letdown. And he's like, you know what? You're right. There is a bigger world and I'm out. Yeah. I don't know that Karen would have anticipated that because in her mind, when she delivers all that, she's like, you're home. I want to go out and explore, you know, and, and I can't really do that if I'm anchored to this place and to you. And so then for him to uproot unexpectedly is like,

Oh, you were willing to do that? Like, that's not anything I would have anticipated. I get it, though. He stuck around for 16 years, probably in hopes that this moment would finally arrive and he would finally get the courage. And I love that he admitted that to Deb. He said, I've thought about this. Yes. I've imagined this moment and how it would go and how she'd say yes for 15 years. Yes.

16 years and I never thought she'd say no. And to find out you spent, it's not that any of that time was wasted at all, but to realize like, oh, I've been, there's been a goal I've been working toward that was never a real thing. I have to, I have to go now. There's kind of no other option. How do you just keep sticking around, like knocking at the door when you know the answer's no?

I like fresh starts. I like pause and then replay again. You know what I mean? But that pause button is an important thing in life. And I feel like we've all done that professionally. We've taken time off work for a little while, or we've all like moved out to places where we have beehives, you know, and like that, that,

That pause and restart moment in a person's life is really important because it's like, yeah, we go through school. We do what everyone tells us to do. We've got this chunk of our 20s where we're trying to figure it out. And then you do you hit this like plateau in your 30s where you're like, oh,

what the hell else am I supposed to do? Like, I don't know. And so they're both at that pause and restart moment. And it's sad that they're not doing it together. But I don't know, guys, every time I see Keith and Deb together, I'm like, that's the win. Definitely some heat. I see.

It's sparkly when they're together. I loved her hair, by the way. I loved her hair in this episode. That little half up do. Oh, that was it. That was the win. Barb was on full display. Oh, man. She was hot. She's so hot. It's post-divorce hot. Yeah. You know what I mean? For sure. When it's like, oh, I'm going to make him pay for this. Oh, you're coming over? I'll just be working out. Yeah.

Well, I think, did anyone know when Dan was going to show up? Because we laughed about that too. So the whole time-

The whole episode, Dan is just popping in places, popping into Deb's house, driving by the clinic. Driving into Lucas's weight room. Yeah. Like he's just popping in. He's always driving by at an opportune moment. Guys, it's got to be a hereditary trait because Lucas is doing the same thing in this episode. It's just like, I'm a hamster on a wheel and I've got to pop in all these places. But it works. It really works. And I think it gave us a device to...

You know, one of the things we were talking about when we were watching is like, and I know we've mentioned this to you guys before, but

the folks we don't want to talk about who were in charge of the writer's room, were really active on those message boards that all our fans were active on. You guys made such a difference. You did, because you guys, if you recall, those who watched the show in real time, you did protest the carousel episode. Y'all didn't like it either. And they heard it. And so what was so cool in this, it almost felt like

Karen came in as a woman, the writer, you know, not Moyer's character. I guess I should be clear. Karen, the writer, came in and was like, let's get the show back on track. Yeah. And basically gave, in the most beautiful and unobvious way, gave Lucas a device to go around and apologize for his bad behavior and say,

have that beautiful experience of growth. They pulled him back over the precipice of becoming a shitty guy. Yeah, a Dan. And yeah, he had this awakening and he reconnected with his empathy and he went around and they made very clear to all the fans, like, we're going to fix this and we're going to fix that and we're going to... Don't worry, we hear you. And honestly...

I love that. Our fans are the best fans because they were like, where has our show gone? This was so much about Nathan and Lucas really trying to do their best and be good guys and be the best version of themselves in all, in both of their respective roles.

scenarios, you know, Nathan not wanting to put pressure on Haley to have sex. And I loved, I loved how the storylines crossed over and the conversations that Lucas and Nathan had in the locker room, even though it was 10. That fight was so good. It was so good. And you know what I loved in that locker room scene? Tom did such a good job directing the boys together because you realize that Lucas is coming in hot

over, did Nathan betray Haley? Also, I have feelings for Peyton. Also, I've blown up my whole life. And then Nathan, when he goes, why are you so tweaked? And you see it. Like, Chad played the recognition of, oh, I'm... This isn't about the thing. Yeah, like, I'm really coming out sideways here and I need to get my head on straight. And it's this episode where both of these boys are...

implementing the lessons they've been learning through the season. They're going, okay, I know better. I have to do better. How do I do that? And to watch boys learn that on screen in real time isn't something we got a lot of and it's beautiful. Yeah. Friends, we all...

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So a woman talking about boy characters, it was, it was so obvious in this joy. Let's go back to the Haley wake and Nathan up scene. Cause one, we were all super pumped for nipple ring, but to hear this drum beat over and over and over again of, I don't want to pressure you. Yeah. You know, we weren't talking about consent in 2003. Right. That was not a conversation or 2004, whenever the hell we did this. Um,

Was Nathan's stance on that? Like, what were your thoughts about it while you guys were filming it? Because it is a constant drumbeat the whole episode. Yeah. And I don't know. For me, I loved seeing that conversation happening on television with young kids in this age range, and especially with a kid like Nathan, who had clearly been around and had been... Active. Yeah, very active. And...

It was just like something you do and that he has fallen in love and his feelings are now caught up and he has so much respect for her. It's not just like a girl is a thing for me to play with until I'm done and bored and moving on to the next person. This is he is he's respecting her and seeing her as a whole person. And that is something to remember.

To model to young women that they deserve a man that treats them like that or a boy that treats them like that. And to model to young men as well that a girl, a woman is a whole being. She's not just something to play with, you know. So and at that age, oh, God, your hormones and sex is such a.

intimate, tender, I mean, it's the most intimate, tender, you know, emotional thing. And you're exploring all these new things when you're that age. It's just such a sensitive thing.

It's such a sensitive thing that I thought they handled it so well. I loved that Nathan just wanted to make sure that she was looking out for herself. And Lucas, by the way, the conversation that Haley has with Lucas in the cafe. In the cafe. Yes. So good. And he says, if you're not ready, just wait. And what was the other thing he said, Hillary? Look past the moment. Yeah. Yeah. Both boys say over and over and over again to her, yes.

Like in different words, look past the immediate moment. Like think about this long-term. And Nathan says that in the way he's weirded out about the tattoo. He realizes it's a forever thing. Lucas also said, I wish I had waited. Yes. Oh my God. That line. To hear a boy say that. That really got me because we never heard boys say that. And what I thought was so interesting is that,

In the last episode, Nathan and Peyton have had this really kind exchange about their history. And then for Nathan to say, "I really don't want to pressure you.

And for Lucas to say, I wish I'd waited, like those were foreign concepts to the way boys were talking on screen. And what I thought was really beautiful is- Well, even how our boys were talking three episodes before. Yeah. I mean, yeah, they were having sex in public. And now it's like, wait a minute, there are consequences to this. And what I thought was beautiful, especially given the way both brothers are coming at this from their perspective-

is it actually, because of how honest and vulnerable it was, it gave Haley away. And Joy, you played this so beautifully, where it wasn't this like preachy black and white, girls don't want to have sex and boys pressure them. It was like, I'm in love with him and I am turned on by him and I do have feelings for him and I do want to make out with him all the time. And I can't stop thinking about him when I'm not with him. But then when we're hooking up, I also...

I want to stop. I don't feel ready. I hit a wall. I had never seen the fullness of...

all the feelings you're feeling, the yes, the no, I'm scared, I want to, I don't want to, I don't know what to do. I hadn't seen that represented like this. And to see it in that, and I don't mean a love triangle, but in the triangle of these relationships with her boyfriend and her best friend who's a guy, I just thought it was so tender and beautiful and good. I thought so too. I loved being able to show that you can, it's okay to

to acknowledge your feelings and it's okay to acknowledge what your boundaries are and you don't have to understand them all and you don't have to argue them away or talk yourself into or out of them. If you're not ready, just wait. Joy, did you ever have those conversations in real life? Oh, sure. Yeah. I mean, I definitely did with boys that I dated. I mean, I definitely was a late, I mean, I hate even the term late bloomer because there's just, it's so old school. But like, I definitely waited a long time. I was out of high school.

And, and I dated lots of guys. I was living in New York City and I would date and yeah, I would get to a point where I was like, hey, listen, I'm not, I don't want to have sex. I'm just not ready.

And some of the guys were cool and stick around for a little longer. And then eventually like, which is kind of fizzle out. And then some of them were like, okay, well, I mean, that's great. That's fine for you, but I'm not doing that. So bye. And then that's fine too. I mean, it kind of hurts. You go home and cry and eats my screen, but it's a good way to weed out the assholes. You know what I mean? It is. It really, it really is. So even if you're ready to just say that you're not for a little while, just to like weed out any assholes. It's a good barometer. Yeah.

Oh my god, that's what Taylor Tomlinson always jokes about. She's like, I say, ooh, I'm not ready as a test, and then they're like, that's cool, we can wait, and I say, Charlie, you've

It's one of my favorite jokes in her special. Oh, my God. So great. I love that. But you're right. Somebody who won't respect your boundaries. That's a sign that they don't. If they can't respect your boundaries, they can't fully respect you. So it is a good it's it's good to be honest about how you feel and

Oh, watching Haley do it in this episode was so good. Yeah. I mean, it's a loaded topic, but I loved the way we handled it. And I also, there was one more thing that I wanted to say about all of these storylines wrapped up, especially with the teenagers. I mean, look, we've got Jake with a baby with Nikki, who is like a wreck and seemingly sincere trying to figure her way through. And maybe she really is sincere. There's a lot of people who are a mess. They're sincere in the moment. And then they,

come up against their own blocks and they run away. She's a young mom too. Yeah. We've got Brooke dealing with the serious, sincere pregnancy scare and then finding out

that she's not pregnant in the exact moment that Lucas calls her a slut. And, and she makes the decision to sort of give him a taste of his own medicine, which I was totally fine with. Yeah. Lucas walking through his fears and anxieties. What am I going to do? What am I going to do? And Nathan and Haley and the tattoo and the sex. And in no way. And through all of this mess, was there any shame at all?

And I loved seeing people be able to be messy and walk each other through it and hold hands. And there was no shame. It was so beautiful to see that. Even though people weren't always making great decisions, there was still forgiveness and space and like love on the other side of it. So I just want to say that I was really proud of our team for creating that.

Yeah, I think we are so lucky that we had Karen Usher and Tom Wright at the head of this. Because they were two people who always brought the best feelings and the most intimacy. And I mean, Hillary, you said it earlier, like Chad acted his ass off in this episode, as did James. And those two people at the helm gave the boys space to be more than typical male archetypes.

They pushed them to be vulnerable. And the boys loved it. Like, look how beautifully they did it. They showed up. And then we all got to do it. Like, ah. It was like everyone was their most, you know, their most...

and yeah, just willing to put it all on the table. And I agree. I'm just proud of us. Well, let's look, let's look at that a little bit. Cause this was the first season of our show. Yeah. When we filmed this only like half the first season had come out at this point. And so visiting directors, like visiting people, the writer's room, they didn't know us. They didn't know what we were capable of. You know, I'd been a VJ, you know, Chad had been like the bad guy on Dawson's Creek. So it would make,

sense that visiting directors would be like, oh, you know what he's good at? Smoldering. You know, let's get him to do that. You know, they didn't know us. And so when we finally started to get people that knew us and thought, you can do more, you know, that's when we really were able to start turning in performances that were risky, maybe, and stretched the perception. Like, this episode for me, personally, was

was hard to watch because I have a preteen son and we just walked through the city and he held my hand for a little while. And then like, and then at a crosswalk, he was like, Oh, I'm holding my mom's hand. What am I doing? Oh,

Oh, baby boy. He'll still like lay in my lap. But then he remembers like, oh, I have like a mustache, you know? We're right on that cusp. And so to see Lucas rebuff his mother and lie to his mother and, you know, game his mother in some of these past episodes. And then to really need his mother in this episode and cry with his mother. Those two together were so, so good in this episode.

episode. That scene, oh my gosh, the scene where Chad was, I mean, the whole episode he played this scared little boy thing so well, tone so well. That scene with Moira, that's got to be like a, when we talk to Chad, we have to ask him about that scene because that's got to be a career highlight for him. I mean, she's

She's such an icon. And to be able to really do a real, we're not just talking about like chit chat. This isn't just like, hey, mom, I'm home. This is real deep stuff. And to be able to play that with such a formidable actress must have been really exciting for him. So I can't wait to ask him about that at some point. Because Morver was intimidating. That was like, you know, you were going in with somebody with all the tools. And how do you keep up? And he did. He showed up.

Well, and something I loved about it too, Moira, and again, what space they were given with that writing.

That Moira's reaction, you know, as Karen, as it's scripted, is that she slaps him. And then they run into his room and it's his childhood room. And you do realize that this is a little boy. And Hillary, you said something really interesting when we were watching the episode. And again, this is what Karen gave us as a writer, that Brooke...

stabbing back at Lucas when he stabs her in a way gave us Lucas back because it shook him out of his, I'm out experimenting. And it's like, it shakes him out of the reverie, out of that thing. When she calls him Danny Jr. It's so intense. I remember when I read that and I was like, oh God, this is a lot. But it's so good because in a way,

It's like he snaps out of the popular kid dream and he's a kid again. Yeah, that's it. And to watch them in his childhood bedroom with like that desk that he's probably had since he was 10. Yeah. And Moira delivers that performance where she's saying, I'm just so scared for you, you know, and asks how Brooke is. Like, when have we ever seen a mom of a boy do that and say she must be so scared that

Karen is so clearly terrified for these kids. And it's a perspective I haven't really seen when there's something where parents are talking about teen pregnancy. And her fear let Lucas be a little boy again. And it was just, oh, it was really amazing. What's good about this, it made him, so look, we all watched the episode. We know what the end story is. Brooke was a false alarm, right? Mm-hmm.

The sentiment of, oh, if you told me the truth, I wouldn't have had to admit this to my mother and my father and my, you know, like my friend. I wouldn't have had to tell everybody about this. I wouldn't have gone to Jake if you told me the truth.

It was a catalyst for Lucas to get his together and to do the right thing voluntarily. We needed it. He volunteered it. He could have kept this a secret for another couple months, you know, because Brooke wouldn't have shown for like another three or four months. Yeah. Totally could have kept it a secret. Could have played, you know, I don't know what's going on. Um,

Instead, he gets right in there right away and is like, we got to figure this out because his identity of being an unwanted child. Yeah. Is so triggering in this moment. The conversations that he had with Dan and then Brooke having called him Danny Jr. Let's get into that. Let's talk about Dan.

It's back to school season for the kiddos, which means it's the perfect time to get your vacay on. Beaches are empty, resorts are quiet, and cheap Caribbean vacations has fall vacay deals up to, wait for it, 45% off. Plus, you can score more site-wide savings and take an extra $50 off your booking now through September 5th. Take it now.

Take this as your sign to pencil in a vacay this fall and turn back to school season into back to beach season. Go to cheapcaribbean.com to find your next all-inclusive vacay offer and September 5th. All right, this is what you do when the love of your life, the apple of your eye, the bag you would beg for can wait no longer. You ready? You

You go to eBay. Seriously, there you'll be reunited with that designer goddess of your dreams, that iconic Gucci handbag authenticated by experts no less. And with that in mind, you might let a fun Prada mini bag catch your attention. But at eBay, wandering eyes are always welcome. So if you happen to also find the perfect cheetah print dress to go with that bag, we'll just call it fate, baby. So go ahead and let's take you down a Y2K adventure. Flirt with the endless possibilities, baby tees that say, I'm

back chunky heels only you can pull off and the Y2K mini skirts that were way ahead of their time. And you better make a move on that timeless Tiffany and Coach arm necklace while you're at it. And just because you look good in chunky heels doesn't mean you'll slack on your sneaker game. Let your love for sneakers take you down a not so sold out road and hit the ground running with all the latest streetwear. Nike, Off-White, Fear of God, Stone Island, Kith, Supreme, and whatever Adidas collab pops up next.

The fines are limitless and the authenticity is verified for real. So don't worry when that Chrome heart ring steals your heart, let it ignite your inner goth and follow your destiny. Fall in love with a goth queen seller from Nevada. Who's got the whole selection. Get that lace up corset with the knee high platforms and stop at nothing to find the perfect leather jacket to complete the collection.

And if that has you cross paths with a vintage fringe jacket, have the courage to get the boots to match. Just go full cowboy and never look back. Next thing you know, you're topping off your wardrobe with authentic luxury handbags and the most pristine watches because now you're confident and eBay's your place.

The more you love, the more you'll find. From the new to the pre-loved and waiting to be loved. The timeless classics to the one of ones and everything in between. Yeah, eBay. It's the place for new, pre-loved, vintage, and rare fashion. eBay. Things people love. Friends, Symbiotica is a supplement brand that we love and trust. You've heard Hillary say, we're science fair kids. We love research. We love hacking our health. And for me in particular, I love,

noticed that when I'm really good about my supplements, I have so much more energy. I focus better. I get better sleep. So I'm committed. Everyone around me can tell when I've been taking my supplements. I'm a much more pleasant person to be around. And so these are formulated with high quality ingredients. Symbiotica is transparent about how and where they source ingredients to ensure that you get the best products possible.

And their formulas do not have any seed oils, preservatives, toxins, artificial additives, or quote, natural flavors. I mean, most supplements have that weird chalky taste or it's like sulfuric.

and it lingers for a while. I hate that. And so it's really, it's hard to find a supplement that has premium ingredients but still tastes great. That's why we like it. Symbiotica has transformed our lives, and I am so glad we've found a brand that actually cares about us, its customers. I know I can finally see a difference in how I function and feel, and I actually look forward to taking my supplements every day.

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This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. What are your non-negotiables, Rob? Exercise is pretty much a non-negotiable. And getting into therapy once or twice a month has sort of become a non-negotiable in the last couple of years for me. You know, the same way that when I wanted to start getting in shape for the first time, I hired a personal trainer to show me the ropes of the gym and teach me how to not hurt myself while also getting stronger physically.

I realized if I wanted to grow emotionally that why not hire a therapist, a professional, someone with experience who can sort of guide the journey rather than just reading a self-help book by myself. And I have found it to be an invaluable experience.

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Or a creamsicle. You know, when the ice cream truck rolled by, it was, let's get out there and grab some cold treats. Stapped. Yeah, I think what I've realized, sadly, as an adult is that mostly when I wanted a cold treat, I probably just needed to drink water. I think I'm learning because, you know, summer is heating up as it does every year. And the thing that gives me my hydration fix and my treat is

is Liquid IV because they have all these nostalgic summer flavors that hit the market this summer. Like their sugar-free Rainbow Sherbert. It has taken me back to childhood in the best way. And I actually feel like I'm doing something good for myself when I drink it. And listen to some of these flavors. They have Raspberry Melon, White Peach. I am a big, big fan of the Green Grape, in fact. And I just kind of love that it's easy. Tear, pour, live more.

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You know what I think is really important? Because, and we've talked about this offline, the three of us, that this is the Lucas we look back on. This is the guy we've always remembered and lionized on our show. Yeah, like this is our good guy who's our empathetic leader, who's the author who writes the sensitive book. My endgame. Yes, he's Peyton's endgame. And so one of the things I think that's been, to be honest, triggering for all of us is to watch when...

by some writers, Lucas was kind of hijacked. And we didn't remember. They were experimenting with him. It wasn't, and it wasn't a good look. And we didn't, we didn't remember that there was bad behavior on Lucas's part. Honestly, we didn't. And one of the things I'm realizing that in our like, what, what did he do? What did he say? He said he had two girlfriends. How dare he? You know, like, like experience in real time is that we haven't, we

We've always remembered Nathan being the bad guy who had a bad dad and then became a good guy because of Haley. In these episodes, I'm really seeing the impact that, again, like 18 years later, I didn't remember, I don't know if you guys did, of exactly that scar for Lucas of what Dan's abandonment did to him. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Like, what an impactful thing for a kid. And this is the episode where we really get into it, where he's not running away from it, where he's not like, you know, ah, F you at the insults, where he confronts it and he owns it and he uses it as his vulnerability when he talks to Brooke about what kind of dad he would never want to be. When he confronts Dan about why Dan was so selfish and how he knows he could never be like him.

You know, he started to experiment a little bit and realizes he isn't Dan. It's such a beautiful moment where you see a character cement his identity as an individual. And I just thought it was like such a powerhouse. This is like a...

if we made a top 10 list, like this would be on my top 10 episodes for Lucas for sure. I think for all of us. Also in the Lucas of it all, in the episodes that were written by men, even when Lucas was going through something, he still found a way to flirt with everyone, right? And that may have been a direction thing. That may have been what was on the page, you know, like whatever. But

When Lucas finds out Brooke could be pregnant and then he runs into Peyton again on the quad, there is not a note of impropriety. He is not flirty with Peyton in any way. He's not like... When he says, what did we do? You know? There's nothing...

conspiratorial. What's what is what? There's nothing conspiring about it. What's guys vocab? Conspiratorial. Yeah. Is that a word? Yeah. Listen, we're going to have our drama queen's vocab list. What was the other one that we had a while back? Scrapple. Scrapple. That's right. So I liked that this shook him up and he realized like, oh, not every chick is a sex bot. You know, like, yeah, Peyton is Brooke's best friend.

like eventually we're all going to be involved in this situation, whether we like it or not. Like let's be thoughtful. He's thoughtful in that moment. Yeah. Um,

It was good to see them in friend zone. Yeah, and the thoughtfulness makes the misdirection later for Brooke and Peyton so delicious because it was the first time in a long time that this boy hasn't been flirting with her, that he's come to her for help. So then when Peyton turns around and says, yeah, he was so upset earlier, it's like...

She steps in it because it was so innocent. And you realize these people, they're just missing each other. And it's heartbreaking. She's real dumb. She's Peyton and Good Words. No. Conspiratorial. We're just...

We're just like, oh, you should say the thing instead of saying the around the thing. Guys, we have not talked about one big thing that happened in this episode. What? Which was finding out that Dan has this whole folder full of Lucas. Oh.

Memorabilia. Photos, memorabilia, cutouts, like magazine cutouts. You remembered that, right? Yeah. Well, once I saw it on screen, I remembered. But no, I remembered the magazine holder. I don't know why. It's just a prop. It's like I was having some random visceral. You know what else I remembered is the sheets on the bed. As soon as I saw Nathan and Haley in bed together in the apartment, I had my...

You know, like sense memory. I remembered feeling those sheets because they were all the same and it was the same, you know, they all smelled like props, like they'd been stored up in the props. Yeah.

Totally. They smell like the inside of a plastic bin. Yeah. And they've been washed with the same detergent for the last like 10 years. Like it was just, I don't know why, but that was some sort of sense memory hit me. And then when Dan was in his office, the magazine rack behind him, like the wooden magazine rack. What were you doing in Dan's office, Joy? I was never, but they would move props around. So that ended up in Haley's office or desk or something somehow. But I was like, I don't know what all things

of things in this episode I was like I've got that when you said it when you were like I remember that we were on to the next point but I wanted to be like is it because it's under the lamp like it was lit by one of the million lamps it was such a funny choice about so many lamps but anyway I was I was um

I pleasantly surprised to see Dan pull out this envelope with all of those clippings in it. I loved, you know, when Dan went in to talk to Lucas in the weightlifting room, I was like, why is he in here? Why is he doing this? Making the rounds? Like, what's the point of this conversation? Yeah.

And then he turned the corner of like, not just being a bad guy and being like, your mother should have had an abortion and you should never have, you know, been born. So I was like, God, what a fucking asshole this guy is. And then he says-

I can't remember exactly what the dialogue was. It was something about- He says, you've got so much life to live. Yes, there's so much life ahead of you. And that's what it was. It was like, and that's what Paul was telling us when he was on the show a few weeks ago about that he was actually looking at, he was trying to, in his weird, sick, twisted way, he was trying to look out for Lucas in the best way he knew how.

trying to get Lucas to see things from his perspective, even though obviously not considering Lucas's feelings or how it would affect him or impact him. Anyway, it was just, he really was genuinely so happy to see Lucas when he came to the dealership. He was like, you finally think I'm not a bad guy. Yeah. You know, like, are you seeing my side of things? I was the dork that when he opened up that folder, I'm like, why does Paula pictures a chat? Like, I, I,

I totally love it. I mean, and Joy had to explain it. She's like, it's Lucas. He's been saving them for years, Hillary. And I'm like, oh, right. Because he does secretly really care. He's, you know, it's meaningful to him. Oh, that's why Dan's my favorite character. He just keeps unfolding. It's like an onion. You just keep peeling the layers. Yeah. Well, and you know what's cool about it is it's kind of what we were talking about last week. You know, like when we were all saying,

our opinions on whether or not it would have been an interesting choice to have had Brooke lie about the pregnancy from the beginning. Yeah. Sometimes the most misguided...

actions can produce the most interesting onscreen journeys. And what I loved was that we had, because they're 16, this really genuine scare, you know, the pregnancy test, that at home one says it's positive. Oh my God. And had you ever taken a pregnancy test at 16? Oh my God. Oh my God. No, I was Haley at 16. I've been dating my poor high school sweetheart for three years. And I was like, I'm still not ready.

Yeah. Good for you. Sweet angel. The idea of having to go buy one, you know? Terrifying. Yeah. It's a big deal. And I think about...

I think about some of the beauty of this episode to me was the innocence and the fallibility. Like, Lucas had been fallible and gets his innocence back. And Brooke's innocence of being in love for the first time is broken. And then when he says to her that hideous thing of, how do I even know it's mine? Ugh.

That fight in the parking lot is chef's kiss. So good. It's so good. You were awesome in this episode, Sophia. Yeah. You really turned up. We talked about Sophia's stamina because for the last, like, lot of episodes, Brooke has been so hurt and so sad and isolated in her room. And having to just sit by yourself and cry is so much harder than doing a scene where someone else is helping you work into it. And I,

You know, frankly, I'm pissed that Peyton's gotten the reputation as the crybaby because you're out crying my ass. I'm crying a lot this year. But so good. And like, you can see the front of her being angry with Lucas and then how it turns at home. And being able to do both is a lot of work.

And you make it look easy. You do. Thanks. You know, it was really important for me to, I don't mean to be like hyperbolic, but it felt really important to do right by this storyline. If you were flip about it, oh my God. But to, you know, given some of what we were talking about, like,

who end up in this position and get, you know, left hung out to dry. Like, how scary this is. And yes, how scary it is for kids in general. Like, that she goes to him and says, I really don't want to have to tell you this, but who else am I supposed to talk to? Like, it was something that, I don't know what it was about it. It, I think because we rallied and kind of rode so hard for our characters. Yeah. I was so heartbroken for her. Yeah.

Yeah.

But, you know, this little girl who's facing this by herself was something I wanted to honor. And in that youth and in that heartbreak, when he insults her and says the thing about her that...

He knows what hurt the most. Yeah. Like the thing you're worried people would say to you that also isn't fair because it's a double standard about boys and girls. But anyway. Carousel. Carousels are a safe word. Hello? Carousel. Carousel. Carousel. That's what she should have just said to him. Carousel. Instead of I'm pregnant. But, you know, he stabs her and she stabs him back. And it's a reaction. It's not even a choice.

And I thought it was beautiful because then she's sitting there going, oh, dear. I've said this thing, and how do I take it back? And that scene with them I thought was so genuine because she did need him to apologize. But the apology, it just, it breaks her heart almost even more because she's like, oh, God. Because he's the guy that she really loved. Like, he's saying all the things that made her love him. Yeah. Yeah.

It's hard. It was really good. That was really good writing for Chad and I. It was really beautiful in this sort of cycle of the Brooke and Lucas story to essentially bring these two back together in that bedroom. And they're covered in cuts they've given to each other. Yeah. Like they've hurt each other. And nobody actually says, I'm sorry. It's just that the communication is...

It just shows it's not always necessary to say, sometimes it's necessary to say the words, but sometimes you just have to hear each other and talk through. And I loved that he was so willing to just say, what do you want? I will be here for you. I will do whatever it takes to be a great dad. I want to be a good guy. I want to do the right thing. Yeah.

That's such a beautiful observation, Joy, because you're right. They don't apologize to each other verbally, but that scene feels so apologetic on both their parts. And they are sorry and they're yelling and they're honest about all the sh**ty

the things that have happened between them. And I actually think that the unsaid, but obvious apology of it all is what lets her finally sit alone and just cry. Yeah. And it's going to let them be okay with each other in the future as the show moves on. Because they become such good friends. Yeah. The comedy, the comedy that evolves for Brooke and Lucas, like over the years is so good and so funny that,

And I do think you're right. I think this really lays the foundation for an honest friendship in the future. They both know that nothing was based in malice. Yeah. You know? And if you can get through really hard things like that with somebody, you kind of know that you can get through anything. And them being able to have that as a foundation of like, yeah, we made it through some really hard shit and look how young we are and we figured it out. Like, we can do this. Yeah.

Well, and I like that we got to model it too. There's a lot we got to model really well in this episode. The conversations around consent with Haley and Nathan. Oh my God. The honest apologies and like the owning of your failures and the ways you've hurt people. And I'm so curious, Haley,

how, when we think about the beginning of the repair of the rip for Brooke and Lucas, I'm excited to see... Because we still see the rip for Brooke and Peyton. I'm excited to see how these two friends begin their repair because...

They remain, in the end game of it, family. They remain best friends. Well, our daughter's middle name is Brooke. Yeah. You know what I mean? Exactly. How do we go from this to baby Sawyer Brooke? It makes me feel emotional. I love it. I think the title of this episode is like Bedroom Talks because the bedroom talks in this episode are so strong. We've got the Nathan and Haley bedroom talk where he spies the 23 for the first time. Woo! Woo!

We've got the Brooke and Lucas bedroom talk. We've got the Karen and Lucas bedroom talk. And then we have the Haley and Peyton bedroom talk. I loved that too. I loved that. We haven't even discussed that yet. You said the most lovely thing to her. Well, first of all, Haley pouring her heart out in a way that isn't like...

She's just been so honest. Before a girl loses her virginity, she thinks most girls think about whether or not they're going to do it for a very long time. Yeah. It's something that gave me like hives and a horror show. And I was so nervous that I'd built up this reputation about being like, I'm a clean teen. You know, I really had a club called Clean Teens in high school. I was like Queen Virgin. Yeah.

And I dated a boy who was not. And I remember crying in his lap, just like laying at a party, like, I just need you to know it's never going to happen. Like ever.

So you can dump me now if you want to, you know, and he, he was lovely. He didn't, um, which was nice. That like makes you feel nice when you take it off the table entirely and be like, you know what? I like you. I just like being around you. And Nathan says that. So Haley laying it all out, I think was important for girls to see. Yeah, I think so too. Yeah.

It's back to school season for the kiddos, which means it's the perfect time to get your vacay on. Beaches are empty, resorts are quiet, and cheap Caribbean vacations has fall vacay deals up to, wait for it, 45% off. Plus, you can score more site-wide savings and take an extra $50 off your booking now through September 5th. Take it now.

Take this as your sign to pencil in a vacay this fall and turn back to school season into back to beach season. Go to cheapcaribbean.com to find your next all-inclusive vacay offer and September 5th. All right, this is what you do when the love of your life, the apple of your eye, the bag you would beg for can wait no longer. You ready? You

You go to eBay. Seriously, there you'll be reunited with that designer goddess of your dreams, that iconic Gucci handbag authenticated by experts no less. And with that in mind, you might let a fun Prada mini bag catch your attention. But at eBay, wandering eyes are always welcome. So if you happen to also find the perfect cheetah print dress to go with that bag, we'll just call it fate, baby. So go ahead and let's take you down a Y2K adventure. Flirt with the endless possibilities, baby tees that say, I'm

back chunky heels only you can pull off and the Y2K mini skirts that were way ahead of their time. And you better make a move on that timeless Tiffany and Coach arm necklace while you're at it. And just because you look good in chunky heels doesn't mean you'll slack on your sneaker game. Let your love for sneakers take you down a not so sold out road and hit the ground running with all the latest streetwear. Nike, Off-White, Fear of God, Stone Island, Kith, Supreme, and whatever Adidas collab pops up next.

The fines are limitless and the authenticity is verified for real. So don't worry when that Chrome heart ring steals your heart, let it ignite your inner goth and follow your destiny. Fall in love with a goth queen seller from Nevada. Who's got the whole selection. Get that lace up corset with the knee high platforms and stop at nothing to find the perfect leather jacket to complete the collection.

And if that has you cross paths with a vintage fringe jacket, have the courage to get the boots to match. Just go full cowboy and never look back. Next thing you know, you're topping off your wardrobe with authentic luxury handbags and the most pristine watches because now you're confident and eBay's your place.

The more you love, the more you'll find. From the new to the pre-loved and waiting to be loved. The timeless classics to the one of ones and everything in between. Yeah, eBay. It's the place for new, pre-loved, vintage, and rare fashion. eBay. Things people love. Friends, Symbiotica is a supplement brand that we love and trust. You've heard Hillary say, we're science fair kids. We love research. We love hacking our health. And for me in particular, I love,

noticed that when I'm really good about my supplements, I have so much more energy. I focus better. I get better sleep. So I'm committed. Everyone around me can tell when I've been taking my supplements. I'm a much more pleasant person to be around. And so these are formulated with high quality ingredients. Symbiotica is transparent about how and where they source ingredients to ensure that you get the best products possible.

And their formulas do not have any seed oils, preservatives, toxins, artificial additives, or quote, natural flavors. I mean, most supplements have that weird chalky taste or it's like sulfuric.

and it lingers for a while. I hate that. And so it's really, it's hard to find a supplement that has premium ingredients but still tastes great. That's why we like it. Symbiotica has transformed our lives, and I am so glad we've found a brand that actually cares about us, its customers. I know I can finally see a difference in how I function and feel, and I actually look forward to taking my supplements every day.

every day. Feel more energized, alert, and balanced with high quality supplements that work. Head over to symbiotica.com. That's C-Y-M-B-I-O-T-I-K-A.com and use code drama for 20% off and free shipping on your subscription order.

For decades, the Mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end, sparking a chain of events that would ultimately dismantle the most powerful crime organization in American history. It sent the message to them that we can prosecute these people.

Discover how a group of young prosecutors took on the mafia and with the help of law enforcement brought down its most powerful figures. These bosses on the commission had no idea what was coming their way from the federal government. From Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts, this is Law & Order Criminal Justice System. Listen to Law & Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

EPM 110, 120. She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not.

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I loved that the thing that Peyton says at the chalkboard, you were painting H-J plus N-S equals heart. It's so cute. And you said, I say something about how much I'm in love with him and how I feel and all those things. And you say, well, then you went further with him than I ever did.

Because just acknowledging that there's so much more to a relationship and a connection than sex. And I think Haley really needed to hear that. Haley got a lot of good info, good advice in this episode, I think. Which is so nice because she's so often the voice of reason supporting everyone else. That's a great, yes.

That's a good insight. To watch her get supported and poured into and... It's like the one place she feels lost. Yeah. And to get lots of information. You know, this information from Peyton, that nugget from Lucas, all of these things so that she can...

understand why she feels conflicted and that that's okay. And as you so wisely said, Joy, that there's no shame in that. Yeah. I mean, you know, Hillary, you're talking about how intense it felt for you to think about it. I remember my own anxieties, like, you're not...

I hate that girls get so shamed that they get hives thinking about will I or won't I. That's heartbreaking. Guys, it's never going to happen. Sorry. I'll be a virgin till I die. Honestly, we would go to parties. We would go to parties in high school and not drink. And like at some point in the party, when other people started acting stupid, we'd yell out clean teens. And then the other girls would yell out virgins for life.

And that was like our first life. Oh my God. It was like, it was like the call and response across a party. And we thought it was so funny because we were owning the thing that other people could have picked on. Oh my God. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Girls get hives. There was one more thing too, that I wanted to say about Haley's tattoo because it, it just really started making me think what, what an intro like that. There's so,

so many layers in someone who would get a tattoo and says 16 years old and hide it from everyone, even her best friend. It's literally just for her. Yeah. That takes a certain amount of...

I don't know. I'm at loss. I'm at loss for vocabulary words, too. I need more coffee. But it takes... Has that ever happened? Did you get a secret tattoo ever? I never got a secret tattoo. I mean, that takes a certain amount of introverted that I don't have. Like, that's a level of...

I need something that's just for me. Or maybe it's just confidence, a level of self-confidence that I didn't have where you can just be so comfortable that you're like, I'm getting something. I don't need to show anybody. I don't need to talk to anybody about it. It's just for me. So y'all can all bugger off.

I haven't thought about it so much in that way, but I'm realizing like, oh, IRL, I'm Haley when it comes to tattoos. Oh, you are? Because you have all those white tattoos that nobody knows about. Yeah, I have a lot of secret tattoos, you guys. I have seven tattoos and only one is in color. That's awesome. And I love...

I love when I show them to people who I, you know, trust and love who go, how have I never seen this? And then they never unsee it. But no one knows they're there and they're just...

It's mine. Yeah. But to do that as an adult, that's like, that's wonderful. But as a kid at 16, because you met, like we're all so desperate to be seen, liked, known, affirmed, approved, all of that stuff that for somebody to just be like, yeah, no, I'm, she's got another planet. It's just so wild. It is such a bold choice for a teenager. A, she had to figure out how to get permission or get that illegally. And B, yeah, I mean, I,

I started getting mine at 23. And truly, I think part of it was to make sense of how intense all the eyeballs on us because of the show felt. It gave me a way to make my...

personhood feel like it was just for me again. Oh, interesting. Oh yeah, your body's a secret again. That's smart. That's pretty cool. Like there's a thing you don't get to look at or touch or comment on or know about. Where are we going to put our drama queen's tattoos? I can't stop thinking about it. I have ideas.

If we want to talk about adults making choices, you know, we've been wishy-washy on how old Nikki was. Oh, my God. And in this episode, she talks about tuition money. So we know she's like 18, 19 now, right? College somehow. She seems like 20.

She seems old. Yeah. I mean, they certainly wrote her to feel that way. They hired Emmanuel. She's got such good eyebrows and eyeliner. Like she looks like a grown up. Okay. So because she used to model and maybe she still does, I don't know. And they would need to sort of paint her eyebrows in different ways. Like sometimes it would be really extreme to the side or like all the way up or whatever. So she plucked her eyebrows from the arch.

out, like toward her ears, arch out. They were completely gone. There was no eyebrows there. It was just the main part. And I had this, when I went to lunch with her, I just had this conversation. I was like, what's going on with your eyebrows? Because I'm so no filter. Yeah. And she told me, yeah, it was because I model. And I went home and I plucked out my eyebrows from the arch out. Because I was like, she's so cool. She is so cool. I'm going to do the same thing.

Oh my God. She is. You know, we get to see a human side of her in this, but you guys, just so you know, we were all so intimidated by Emmanuel because she was cool. So cool. Remember those little mean poodles she carried around with her? Oh my God. Why don't we, we need to have her on. Can we get her on? She's got to come on. She should come on. Yeah. She's cool, man. She's got to come on immediately. But,

And over the years, people have always talked. I've gotten the note a number of times that it looked like Peyton was going to kiss her before she like slapped her. Many times. There was some tension there.

She's a babe. And I think we wrestle in the next episode, if memory serves me. I'm excited. Yeah. We see Nikki's humanity. We see her humanity, and it is really interesting. You know, we touched on this a little bit in the last episode, but there is something, one of the things that creeps in, you know, again, that came from a room we didn't have control of that is weird for all of us guys is,

is the reality that Nikki's in college and Jake is 16, that she does, again, not written by Karen, the wonderful writer in this episode. She inherited that information. Yeah, she inherited this information for sure from someone else, but the someone else cracked a joke, wrote a line for Nikki to say, oh, I like him young. And if she's 20 and Jake's 16, we're talking about something that's not okay, right?

Yeah. And I just want to say, I know that that has been a bit triggering for some fans of the show who are realizing this information as we are. Because when we were kids, we didn't even track it. No, we just totally overlooked it. Because we were all around the same age, but, you know,

If you have experienced something like that, you know, we don't mean to be redundant, but it does feel important to continue to remind ourselves and all of you guys that if you've been through something like this, there are resources. You can reach out to organizations to help you. There are wonderful online and in-person support groups and therapy groups and individual, you know, resources that you can access.

reach out to if you need support to kind of process something like that. To even ask questions. Yeah, we don't want to be flippant about a thing that, you know, in a court of law would be a statutory rape case. It is hard for us to realize that these were some of the things that were not well modeled on on our show.

Yeah, because when she was a senior in high school, what was Jake? Like a freshman? An eighth grader? I don't know. I mean, even if she was...

Yeah. A senior when he was a sophomore? Because we're all supposed to be freshmen or sophomores right now. So we're all juniors. Sophomores or juniors, yeah. Yeah, and Jenny's about a year, maybe less. Oh my God, Jake was like 14 when they hooked up? See, that's rough. Maybe she was 17 and then had the baby the next year or something. This is bad math.

Yeah, it doesn't, it just doesn't feel great for us no matter what. And, and, you know, I think the three of us definitely went, oh, and she said, I've got spare tuition money. We were like, oh, we, we, we gotta, we gotta talk about this. So, but regardless, in real life, Emmanuel is fabulous, wonderful, smoking hot, and so cool that she made Joy pluck her eyebrows out. Yeah. When's the last time anyone saw Emmanuel? I don't know. Has anyone seen her recently? No. I haven't. I want to. We're going to get her back.

When she drops the bomb on Lucas that she's Jenny's mother, his reaction is so good. So good. They both played that really, really well. They really did. They really, really did. Yeah, there was just no, it felt like there was no acting in this episode. You know, sometimes you're doing a show, you're doing 22 episodes and season after season and it can start to just, sometimes it just feels like you're at a desk job. You're just kind of phoning it in. I know when I'm phoning it in. You know,

You know when you're phoning it in, it's like, yeah, I got lunch and like, I'm supposed to be out of here by noon. I got a lunch meeting. Like, let's just get this over with. There was no phoning it in in this episode. Everybody really showed up. You know when scenes do that? The scenes where you're supposed to be acting like this is the best time ever. Those are the scenes where I'm like...

Are we done? Yeah. Fantastic. Those scenes or the ones where you're like supposed to be at a club raging, except there's no music and everyone's just fake dancing. And it's 8.30 in the morning. To the wrong beat. Oh God. Those are my, those are my nightmare. Those are the ones where I'm like, all right, Chan, get, get it together. Get it together. Think about it. Well,

Well, guys, should we like maybe look at fan questions and spin a wheel? The one thing I want to say about the end of the episode, I love how this episode ended because Lucas thanked his mother. Yes. His mom. Thank you. If you're out there, thank your mother. That was such a good note, especially for all the crap he's done in these first like 18 episodes, you know? Yeah.

It was a lovely way to end. Yeah. I've gotten to work with Tom Wright on two other shows. Have you guys gotten to work with him? No, I haven't. I would love to. He did White Collar. And I was like, oh my God, Tom, I'm so happy to see you. And then he called me because he was doing an episode of Castle. And he wanted me to come in and play a Kim Kardashian ripoff. I remember that! No one would have ever thought of me to do that. But I think what we see in this episode...

they let us do things we'd never done before. A good director will see the potential in you that no one else has ever seen before. So yes, that's our Tom Wright talk. Let's do a question. We've got a fan question from Bia, which I think is actually so genius. I wouldn't have thought about this.

But we've talked in the earlier part of the episodes about how Chad had a tattoo on his shoulder and they needed to figure out how to cover it. So they gave Lucas a tattoo. And Bia is asking, did Joy actually already have a tattoo? And did that influence the Hailey tattoo moment storyline? Joy, you've got tattoos, but I don't think you have one there. No, no, no.

no, it was just painted on. That's just me sitting in a chair and them spraying me with a stencil. Wait. Yeah. Oh, it was a stencil. It wasn't like a temporary. It eventually was, but the first, because we only saw it twice and we didn't know how many more times we were going to see it. So I think the first two times it was painted on and then they might've gotten a stencil. Cause I mean, if you see it, it looks like a,

It's so bright. And, you know, it looks like when they would paint your face with the cheerleading, the R on your cheerleading cheek. Yeah, I think it was the exact same paint, the same everything. The same paint. And they just put it on.

Put some hairspray, some Aquanet. We filmed it. We filmed on film, you know? So everything was kind of soft and you could like fudge things like stubble and like tattoos. Now that we shoot on HD, if you don't actually tattoo it on the person, it looks so fake. So it's a different medium. That's hilarious. It's hilarious.

It would have actually been kind of amazing if they had had to cover you having a tattoo with a tattoo. Like, it just would have... Oh, that would have been funny. No, I don't have one. But did they... Because you have that cool tattoo on your foot. Did they cover that up for Haley? Or did they let you have it? Yeah, they did. No, they covered it up most of the time. I think there were... Eventually, I mean, there were times... There were seasons where I was, like, wearing glasses in an episode randomly because I just, like...

Had my glasses on set and I forgot to take them off the top of my head. And then they were like, oh, joy, continuity. You're wearing your glasses. I was like, whatever. I'll just put them on my face. And then now Haley has glasses for like suddenly she's got bad vision when she reads for like an episode. And there's stuff like where you'll see my tattoo and then it goes away and then it's there. I mean, continuity is a whole life of its own on this show.

Yeah. When you're working 18 hours a day, I mean, it's impossible. Yeah. You do start to lose your mind a little bit. I feel like they let you keep your foot tattoo once we came back after the time jump. Oh, yeah. Might have been. Yeah, it could have been. We'll see when we get there. I don't know. Yeah. When we get to season five, we will. We're all going to be looking at Joy's feet. Bia, we will have an answer for you in season five. Right. All right. Here we go. Spinning the wheel. Spinning the wheel.

Most likely to be a social media influencer. Bevan. Bevan! Bevan. Yes! In like real life and in pretend land. Because she's so likable. Yeah. Like Bevan is the girl who could do a TikTok that you're like, oh my God. Yes!

And like, I'm obsessed with this company that she has started back in Wilmington. What's that? I don't know anything about recess. Yes. What? It's so cool. Bevan had been like this high ranking soul cycle instructor for years. Yeah. Like at the major facility here in New York. And she moved back to Wilmington in the pandemic and opened up recess, which is, you know, it's a gym where you do things that are like fun activities.

actually like gyms can be so toxic and weird yeah and Bevan is fun she's walking fun yes she is so fun yeah

I mean, we were like campaigning for years to get Bevan on SNL. I still stand by that. I think she crushed it. Oh my gosh. But it's been so cool to watch her find her passion. And then, like Hillary said, you know, become like a top person in SoulCycle, which is such a huge company. And then go and start her own. Like, what a legend. Yeah. She wins. She wins.

She wins. I like it when we have an easy answer. No duh. It's true. Come back next week. We've got episode 20. What is and what should never be. I don't know what happens in this episode. I'm like, I don't need catching up with everyone.

But we've had so much fun with you. Thanks for watching this episode with us. If you're not watching along, we encourage you to do so. Or at least just this episode because this one was gold. This one's so good. Yes, this one's so good. Maybe watch episode 19 twice because it's really that good. See you guys later. Bye. Love ya.

listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at DramaQueensOTH or email us at DramaQueens at iHeartRadio.com See you next time. Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama

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For decades, the mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end. It sent the message that we can prosecute these people. Listen to Law & Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.