Life Coach: Why Your Energy Drives Your Success In Life - Simon Alexander Ong
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Oh, by the way, before we get into this episode, I would love to tell you a little bit about Life Notes. Now, Life Notes is a weekly-ish email that I send completely for free to my subscribers, and it contains my notes from life. So notes from books that I've read, podcasts I'm listening to, conversations I'm having, and experiences I'm having in work and in life. And around once a week, I write these up and share them in an email with my subscribers. So if you would like to get an email from me that contains the stuff that I'm learning, almost in real time as I'm learning it, you might like to subscribe. There is a link down in the show notes or in the video description.

What you're about to hear is an interview between me and my friend Simon Alexander Ong. I know Simon quite well, so I gave him a bit of a hard time around this because I think often it's easy to view coaches and life coaches and stuff

as being a bit scammy and like, what the hell is this? It's an unregulated industry. Anyone can become a coach. But as you'll hear in the conversation, like just Simon's responses to all of my attempts at giving him a hard time are just so good. What did success mean to me? And what sort of impact did I want to have in the world? And after searching in different areas and fields, I ended up coming back to the fact that I really enjoyed helping people. Simon has just released his book, Energize,

which is genuinely really good, make the most of every moment. And I'm just going to read you a little bit of his bio. Simon Alexander Ong is a personal development entrepreneur, coach and public speaker. His clients are from all walks of life, but they share one trait. They all believe that the greatest investment you can make is in yourself. The first sale, which few of us actually focus on is selling ourselves to ourselves. In this conversation, we basically talk about the idea of what it's like to be a personal development entrepreneur and a

coach. I went away from the conversation like genuinely so inspired because I was just so impressed by the way Simon responded to all of the issues that I tried to throw at him. So if you could pick five to six individuals, dead or alive, who could be your counsel, who would they be? I hope you enjoyed this conversation between me and Simon Alexander Ong.

At the moment, according to YouTube analytics, 81% of you who are watching this on YouTube have not yet hit the subscribe button. And so if you're, for example, in the now 81% of people who are watching this on YouTube, but who are not subscribed to the channel, I would love it if you could do so. And it'd be awesome to get that number down to 50%. And it would be cool to get like 50-50 sub non-sub ratio, just for fun. Right, Simon, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. We've known each other for a couple of years now, first through the mastermind that we were on in Zoom and then knowing each other in real life.

And one thing that I've always wanted to ask you is around your, I guess, your tagline, like the labels that you introduce yourself with, at least in the book, Simon Alexander Ong is a personal development entrepreneur, coach, and public speaker.

And initially I would like, and this would have been like two years ago when we first met over Zoom. I wasn't really sure what that meant. And in my mind, like coach was associated with some kind of bullshit artist kind of vibe, like what even is a professional coach? And over time, you know, personal development entrepreneur, I think that's kind of what I am now. And am I a bullshit artist? Yeah. And so I'd love to start with like, how did you end up becoming a coach? What even is a coach? Like, how did we get here?

I was like yourself earlier. I didn't know what a coach was in terms of professional coaching. For me, my understanding went as far as sports. If you were going into coaching, you were going to coach a sports team or you were going to train to go in a field and perform at your best. I didn't know you could have it in the world of professional work.

I actually had my first exposure to coaching. I didn't really know it was coaching at the time when I was at university. So while most students went to work at a local retailer or a department store, I actually met a guy called Peter Harrison. He was doing a talk at the London School of Economics and he had just quit his job at Goldman Sachs to start a career coaching business. And he came up to me and said, Simon,

I like the way you present yourself and I like the way that you come across. Would you be interested in teaching students how to get a job in the city? I.e., how can they interview better? How can they present in order to wow the people in the room? And I said, well, how much are you paying? And he offered me good money. And so on the side of studying at university, I started helping students get into university. How much are we talking? So not enough that was life-changing, but enough to...

upkeep my student lifestyle, so to speak. And I continued that into the world of finance. I did it on the side. While initially I did it for the money, I started to continue doing it, even though I didn't need to do it when I started in the world of finance, purely because I got enjoyment and fulfillment from seeing people send me a message back on their phone saying, Simon, I just landed that offer. Simon, I got my third job offer. Mm-hmm.

But I never knew that I could pursue a career in that. I thought it was just a nice way to make some pocket money. And then of course the financial crisis happened. And that prompted me to ask some deep questions about my future. Because I'd only gone into the world of finance because I felt that was what would make me successful. So I started asking myself things such as,

What did success mean to me and what sort of impact did I want to have in the world? And after searching in different areas and fields, I ended up coming back to the fact that I really enjoyed helping people. I was that sort of person earlier where people, when they had a challenge or a dilemma or a big question that they wanted perspective about, they would come to me.

but I didn't know I could make money from it. Until I went to a two-day event, it was all about coaching. It was about how you could get qualifications to apply this skill into helping people you worked with. And that's really where it began. So is it kind of like being a teacher, but you're not teaching like maths or history, you're teaching...

Yes, I would be careful with the definition here. I think when we teach, we're more of a mentor. So for example, if I wanted to develop my speaking, I might seek out somebody who is far more experienced than me in the public speaking world. And so he or she would be my mentor because I could learn a lot from them. They could guide me. They could teach me. Coaching is less about telling you what to do and more about guiding you back to what you already know through the power of questions.

You know, often we hear the saying that goes, want a better answer, ask a better question. And so coaching is all about asking the right question in the right moment to uncover the path forward for your client.

Okay, so who is the sort of person that might have a coach or might hire you as their coach? Sure, so in the past, it was probably exclusively in the domain of C-suite executives, so people at the higher echelons of management. Nowadays, it's become far more accessible. So if we're looking at coaching generally, then it's people who want to move ahead in life, people who have an exciting future in their mind, but they don't quite know how to get there.

And they need a bit of challenge. You know, if we are the only one holding us accountable, then likely we can procrastinate. We can move the goalposts. But when there is a coach we're working with, we are challenged to become better than who we were yesterday. And our perspective is questioned.

And we're forced to see things from a different perspective. To give an example, I remember working with a client recently and she said to me, I'm finding it challenging to get clients for my business. And I said to her, how many conversations have you had in the last few weeks? And she said, just a few. And I said, that's where we're going to begin. And my challenge to you is in the next 90 days, I want you to get me 50 no's.

get me 50 no's. That was her challenge. Me as a coach, I was holding her accountable for this challenge. But what she didn't know is that if she wants to do this exercise properly, she would never get to 50 no's because what happens is the more we put ourselves out there, the more chances for that yes. And I remember she dropped me a WhatsApp shortly after and said, Simon, I don't think I'm going to get to 50 no's.

And part of me was smiling in my head and I said, tell me why? And she said, I've just got my sixth yes. And so that's part of what coaching is about. It's to believe in the person often before they can believe in themselves. And it is a gift to have someone in your corner like that. Hmm.

how does one find a coach and like so like i'm for example know a bunch of people who are like um you know maybe they've got a job that they don't particularly enjoy like it's fine and they're holding it out until the next promotion or whatever and they know they want to maybe start a side hustle start a business on the side they don't really know where to start and it's like and they'll come to me for advice being like where do i start and i'm like

I mean, have you read The 4-Hour Workweek? I mean, I can recommend a few books, but I've never once thought, oh, you should hire a coach. Because even though I've had coaches for the last two years, that's not a thing that connects. Whereas if someone came into me and said, how do I get better at tennis? I was like,

hire a tennis coach, obviously. That's just a no-brainer. Yeah, so where does one get started if one might want to find a coach? How does that work? Sure. Well, the great thing about today's environment is that we can find a coach from a multitude of different platforms. So whether it is online, whether it is through a referral, an introduction, or simply hopping onto Google. Now,

Now, as with anything, before you invest in a coach, it's important to get a feel for what that person is like. And that's why you should seek out an experience. And that is why when I work with younger coaches who are looking to build their business, I always say,

The greatest gift you can give people before they sign up to you as a client is to give them an experience of what coaching is about. Because coaching is very hard to explain to someone who has never gone through the experience. And so when you can invite somebody to have a powerful conversation, that's when they walk out of the room and said, I need coaching. So is that like a sort of free trial kind of thing? Exactly. Exactly. It's where you give them experience of what coaching can have on them and

the actions that they take. Okay. So it's like when I went to the gym and I was like, I'm looking for a personal trainer, they were like, oh, we'll set you up with a free session with one of our guys. And if you like it, you can talk about it. Totally. It's like a trial. I mean, if you look at business in general, nearly every business starts with a trial. You know, if you sign up to an online platform, chances are it'll be the 30-day free trial and then you're upsold to become a member with a subscription. This is how it works. If you like the experience, what happens is you're more likely to want to invest in it.

But it's very difficult if you haven't gone through that. And when I first started building my coaching practice, I just went out to as many events as I could to meet people. And when I heard that they were going for a challenge or there was an opportunity for me to help, I simply said to them, what are you doing next week? Would you be interested in having a powerful conversation together?

Powerful conversation. And that's it. I just stopped there. And if it was a yes, we would then have a meeting at my office and we would just dive deep to really understand what was going in their mind.

So is it that like any kind of challenge or is it like domain specific? Is it like, oh, I'm struggling to generate leads for my business or my relationship is falling apart or I'm struggling to make Facebook ads? Like what level of tactical versus abstract are we talking? Sure. So for me, it would always begin at the broad level because unless you can address the broad issues, there's no point focusing on the tactical. Because you can give someone all the tactical know-how, but if they don't have the baseline experience,

energy or the mindset or the resources in place, they're not going to put it into action. You know, we can just, we can go into Google, we can go into YouTube. There's all the tactical stuff on there, but the thing is very few people apply it. Now there has to be a reason why we don't apply it. And so for me to tackle things at that level, because then everything just flows from, from that point. Okay.

So let's say you were to come up to me at one of these events. And so I'm not going to use myself right now as an example, because I think it's potentially unrelatable to both people. But let's say it's,

I've you you've come to me at an event and maybe I am a year into my full-time job as a doctor and I'm not really sure if it's for me and you and I are talking and how how would that conversation at the event go like sure so it depends chances are when we meet guaranteed the first question you will probably ask me because we don't know each other would be Simon what do you do yeah now

How I respond to that is by giving what I call a trailer. So when you go to the cinema, before you have the main feature film, you have a series of around five or six trailers. A trailer is very powerful because most of us respond with a title. So I'm an accountant, I'm an engineer, I'm an entrepreneur.

Unfortunately, when we respond with a title, humans tend to box that into certain judgments. So if I say I'm an accountant, most people might think I'm boring or how can I move on to the next person? Why did I get stuck in this conversation? So I would first respond with a trailer, something like everything I do is

is to awaken people's imagination of what is truly possible so they can live a better story. Now what happens, or a variant of that, and now what happens is that chances are they get curious. They're like, well, tell me more. And that is the purpose because when I deliver a trailer, they now want to watch the full film. In this case, the film is my product or service. They get interested. Do you not feel like...

How did you get okay with just saying that completely sincerely? This is one of the things I like about you, and in the book as well. A lot of the stuff with a cynical glance could be seen as a bit woo-woo, especially the whole energy thing. You're just so sincere about it. Were you always like this, or did you have to overcome the cringe response to asking a question of what do you do rather than saying I'm a coach with the trailer? Sure. I think to be fair, I've never seen it as cringe purely because I think that

For me, and it's something I share in the book, there's always two sales that happen. The second sale is selling ourselves to other people. So whether that is getting investment for your business, selling an idea to your colleagues, or selling yourself and your business. The first sale, which few of us actually focus on, is selling ourselves to ourselves. And until we can sell ourselves to ourselves, of course, things are going to feel cringe. But if actually you're coming from a place of authenticity, and you believe that you have that value to offer,

that you have that value to offer, for me, it doesn't come across as cringe. And so when I started to speak that, it came from a place of belief. I was inspired actually to talk about trailers in such a way from someone I saw in America on the speaking circuit. And when he was asked, what do you do? The way he responded came across so natural, but it was him.

No one else could say it in the way he did it. And I think that's where authenticity comes from. He said, I have been saving the world from boredom since before you were born. Now I'm interested. Tell me more. In fact, all he was, was a public speaker, but the way he presented it got me interested. Yeah. Nice. It's like a title and a thumbnail on a YouTube video almost, where-

You kind of have to package it in a way that makes people want to click and want to find out more. And some people might be like, oh, it's a bit clickbait. But actually, you want to toe the line between... You want it to be sufficiently intriguing so as to warrant someone's attention. Definitely. Because if you just describe what the thing is about, no one's going to care. And we have to...

We have to embrace that fact. I read in The Guardian a few years ago that the average attention span for a human was eight seconds. What they did is they got people in the room, they gave them tasks, and they would throw distractions their way to see how long it would take before they would stop doing the task and focus on the distraction. And they found that average to be eight seconds.

What was more interesting was the fact that the average attention span for goldfish was nine seconds. So that tells us two things. On the one hand is if our attention span is that short,

How do we manage our own attention and focus? Secondly, how do we get the attention from other people, whether that is customers, audiences that we're looking to speak to? And that's where some of these things come in handy. The psychology of an audience. How do we engage with people so they want to listen, so they want to ask questions, they want to be curious?

Okay, so I'm sure we'll definitely come around to the how do we manage our own attention. But let's go back to this. You and I are at this convention and I ask you, Simon, what do you do? What's your trailer to that? Sure. So one of the versions I might say is everything I do is to awaken people's imagination of what is truly possible so they can live a better story.

Now, once we've gone past the introductions, then I'd be like, oh, okay. Tell me more. What does that mean? Yeah. And so what I do is I continue telling stories because what I've understood is that, you

We're humans, which means we make purchasing decisions not based on facts or figures, but based on emotion. And so most of us, when they then say, tell me more, how do you do what you do? We jump straight into logistics. We go, well, we would meet twice a month. We would look at this. We would meet here. We can do it virtual. People don't care about that.

Yes, at the end, that's important. But at this early stage, I jump into more stories. So they might say, how do you do what you do, Simon? Tell me more. I would say something like, well, let me tell you about one of my clients, Emma, who came to me about six months ago. Now, when she first approached me, this is where she was at that moment of her life. Now, just yesterday, she got an email from the United Nations inviting her to speak at a conference in Madrid, something she could never imagine that she could achieve in her lifetime.

So what's going through their mind now is, wow, Simon, can you do to me what you did to Emma? So what they're doing is they're putting themselves into that story, understanding that the role of a coach is as a guide, is to unlock their own hero potential. And they see that in the stories that we share. So at this point, I'm thinking...

I'm putting myself in the shoes of Emma and I'm thinking, "I feel like I don't really know what to do." "Oh yeah, I'd love to get invited by the United Nations or whatever that might look like." And then I probably ask, "Okay, so what does that look like? How do you work with Emma?" Definitely. So what I then do is when I speak to the person in front of me, I try and understand what is important to them. Because again,

everyone has a different version of success. So they might say, well, I want to do something that is more fulfilling. I want to have more freedom in my life. And then I get even more curious because the whole point of this conversation is to unpackage what is in their mind. Think of it like if you've ever seen a Sherlock Holmes TV series or movie, before Sherlock Holmes dives into his mind to figure out

The mystery or the answer to a crime. Yeah, he sits the person in an armchair opposite him Yeah, and he simply asked questions on package what is in their mind? Yeah, so my next question may be well, what does freedom mean to you? What does freedom look like? What does success mean specifically? Yeah, so once I get all of this data, this is just data gathering at this point then I can then lead them to that powerful conversation by saying What would be possible for you when you have that freedom?

When you're able to choose how you spend your time, when you're doing something that fulfills you and brings you joy, where you can wake up every Monday morning excited by the week and not dreading it, what would be possible for you? And then we move the conversation into the land of possibility. And that's what energizes them. And then I simply say, would you like to explore more of this and have a conversation about how to begin making this work?

Nice. This is like, I'm feeling myself getting like, sort of having a very cynical view of it at the start and then being like, oh, actually, you know, when you ask me, what do I think of success? Like, what does freedom mean to me? Actually, some good questions. And I think one of the things I find about coaching, which is great, is that a lot of the questions and stuff that a coach would ask

are a little bit weird in a normal social setting. You wouldn't just over dinner ask someone, so what's your biggest challenge right now? Or something like that. And yet I know people who do that and I've started doing that with people now and it's just kind of interesting because it gets straight to an interesting conversation beyond talking about the weather. It's so powerful because I think that if we go...

Back decades before coaching was the industry it is today, this is what friends did. You know, when you met up and you didn't have all of these distractions of today, screens, technology, work, and so on. When you met up and had a coffee with a friend, you literally got curious about people.

You know, I did the exact same thing with a friend recently and she loved the conversation. We only met at a networking event a couple of months ago and we met for coffee and she told me she was in the process of writing a book. And so I got curious. I said, how long have you been writing the book for? And she said, it's been about five or six years and I'm just starting to get through the process now.

And my natural next question was, what has stopped you? And now we were kind of entering a coaching conversation here, but it was very natural. It wasn't weird questions coming up. It was just coming from a place of curiosity. And by the end of that conversation, she said, wow, you know, I'm very inspired now. And I can't wait to show you the progress I will be making in the next couple of months.

And so she knew the answers. It was just about discovering the courage to take action. And sometimes this is what coaching can do. It can give people that space to reflect, to connect the dots, which we all have. We're all collecting dots all the time through conversation, through watching YouTube videos, listening to podcasts, learning from other people. However, we don't give ourselves the space to connect those dots. And that's what's most important.

There's no point collecting dots if you don't have the space to connect them. If you don't have the space. Okay, so in my example of, you know, we've met at this convention, I'm working full-time as a doctor, Simon, 60-hour weeks. Like, what do you mean have the space? I don't have any space in my life. Well,

That would be the first place we would begin then it's to get some space back. Okay, because if you have zero space How can you focus on what matters most? Yeah, whatever we work on whatever you want to do in life You simply don't have the time to do that And so you've got to understand that you have to make some sacrifices for what you want otherwise the very thing that you want becomes what you sacrifice and

And so to remind people to reflect on that vision they have for their life. You know, we can be energized in the moment. I call this feeling positive or positively charged. But there's no point being positively charged if there's no magnetic charge of a vision that is compelling and exciting. Once you've got a vision that is compelling and exciting, you've got a magnetic charge in place. That's what pulls us forward. Many of us simply don't know what it is we do want.

Yeah. So this is a thing that I've been, I've been coming up against when, when making certain YouTube videos about this, where a lot of the comments are like, okay, you're saying like you could make money from your passion. Well, I don't know what my passion is. I don't, I don't actually know what I want. Like how would someone listening to this or watching this start to approach that question of how, how do I figure out what I actually want? Sure. And

It's a very important question because a lot of people I speak with say to me, Simon, I'm not taking action or executing because I don't know what my purpose is. And so how do I know I'm taking action on the right things that will lead me to where I want to be? My response to that is none of us wake up one morning and know exactly what we want to do for the rest of our lives.

It would be great if that happens, but it's only in the Hollywood film. In reality, what happens is that we get given clues. We get given insights. We get given experiences that nudge us towards where it is that we were meant to be. Now, the best place to begin is instead of asking yourself, what is my passion and what is my purpose? It's to simply ask yourself, what am I most curious about right now?

Right now, what am I most curious about? Now, here's why it's a powerful question, because asking yourself what my purpose and passion is puts you in the future. But let's be honest, none of us can predict the future. None of us know if the future we want is actually going to manifest. I mean, how many people had the COVID pandemic in their business plans? No one.

So, bringing it back to the present and asking a softer question, what am I most curious about now, grounds you in the present and allows you to focus on following those truths, those wisdoms that we have inside of us. What do you mean by curious? So, I'll give an example. Yeah.

My journey into coaching wasn't because I woke up one morning and said, you know, I want to coach and speak for the rest of my life. I was in the financial industry. I was disillusioned. I was feeling unfulfilled. And so my curiosity at the time was...

What would life be like if I worked for myself and I didn't work for other people? Now that curiosity led me to read business books, to watch shows about entrepreneurship. That led me into my first business venture, which didn't succeed, but again, I would never have started it without that curiosity.

That led me to get involved in some community projects, to be exposed to different people in different environments, which led me to my second business, which didn't work out. But in that second business led me to people that guided me to this coaching event that happened one weekend. That weekend became the beginning of my journey, but it was curiosity that created those stepping stones. Now,

Here's why it's important. Whenever we begin a new path, we don't get given the entire map up front. That map opens up as we take steps forwards.

And the more steps that we take, the more of that map that is opened up to us. It's like putting together a jigsaw puzzle. You know, you can't see it straight away, but the more pieces you put together, the quicker that picture begins to form. And that's what we've got to trust. Trust in the process. Take one step forward each day and imagine a year from now where you could be. 365 steps forward. So you mentioned that there's this sort of magnetic field of vision. Yes.

So then by vision, do you just mean what is the next step? Or how far out are we planning here? Sure. So there's an element of having a balance here. You have to have a vision to give you context for today. Otherwise, you can take any action because you don't know where it's going to lead or where you want to be. So the vision is something that is compelling enough for you to want to take some action. Okay.

When we look at the action piece, it's not about taking big steps. It's then about taking small steps. So thinking big and starting small, that's the balance that we have to get. Now, the thinking big piece is what activates our emotions. When we think about something that we want to achieve in our lifetime, that is what creates that emotional pull.

When we look at a present, it's what is the one small step that is in my control that I can take today? That's it. Just focus on today. One small step that will contribute to that vision starting to take shape.

And in tomorrow, ask yourself the same question. What is one small step that I can take today that will move me forward? So that's the balance we have to have is that we have to have clarity of a vision that is magnetic in nature, but also to just take small steps forward, not to be overwhelmed with how many steps there is to go, but just on the present moment.

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And so if you haven't yet started with investing and you want to give it a go, then you can download the app on the App Store. And if you use the coupon code ALI, A-L-I at the checkout, that will give you a totally free share worth up to £100. It's available on iPhone and Android, and you can check it out by typing in TRADING212 into your respective App Store. So thank you so much, TRADING212, for sponsoring this episode. Okay, so this seems a bit somewhat contradictory. And it's probably just like my misunderstanding of it. So you're saying that

You can't just wake up and figure out your passion and purpose, but you should still have a vision. Definitely. So what's the difference between sort of purpose and vision? Sure. So with the vision is...

when you start to be curious about what it is that interests you okay that starts to feed into a vision now the point of having a vision it's not that you can have a hundred percent clarity yet okay but you have to have some idea so you might begin with your vision simply being freedom that's it one word my vision is to have freedom okay so let's say i'm working full-time as a doctor 60 hour weeks and my vision is like oh you know what i'd love to live a life where you know even if i was just working three days a week i

I'd have so much time, I'd be able to do this. Exactly. So it starts off with just that. Now you take some small steps forward. It could be simple as starting to read different material. It could be going to different events. Now what happens is that as you begin exposing yourself to new environments that energize you, that vision starts to expand. Now you begin getting more specific. Freedom by doing what?

Freedom is a lifestyle where I can do X. Now you start to fill in more of that puzzle. And then you take more steps forward, of course, you start to fill in more division. So the vision has to begin with something. And it can be even one word. We've used freedom here, but whatever word means something to you about what you want to work towards. If you take small steps forward, that's where you get more clarity. That vision starts to expand. You start to get more clear on what is in that vision for you.

Okay. So I wonder if we can almost just like role play this with my doctor scenario. So we're having a powerful conversation. You've asked me what I'm curious about. And I'm thinking, you know what? Honestly, I feel like I'm so burnt out from this job. I feel like I used to be curious about things. I was super interested in like learning to play the guitar and getting better at music theory. And I love the idea of

Maybe starting a podcast one day where I interview people because I've been listening to the Tim Ferriss show a bit and I think it's kind of cool and I listen to it on my commute, but I just like, I feel like I don't really have the time to do any of it. So I guess that's what I'm curious about. Sort of a little bit of music, a little bit of like the podcast stuff. But I feel like I just don't really have the space in my life to. Well, my first question to you would be, what is important about starting a podcast? What is important about starting a podcast?

I guess for me, I like the idea of learning from interesting people. I feel like the reason I went into medicine partly was this idea of lifelong learning. But now that I'm in it, like, you know, especially at the junior level that I'm at, a lot of it is like following guidelines. And it's honestly not that intellectually stimulating. I know that eventually when I specialize and stuff, it will be. But at least right now, I feel like I'm an admin monkey doing admin work. Yeah.

And I feel like I'm not really learning anything beyond the first few weeks. So I just, I think that's a really cool way. And when you have a podcast, like I know that lets you just meet people because then you can say, do you want to be on my podcast rather than just do you want to have a chat? And so that's why I've kind of had vaguely had this idea in the back of my mind, but I'm not really sure if it'll go anywhere. And what would life be like if you could focus and prioritize lifelong learning? If I could focus and prioritize lifelong learning, yeah.

I feel like life would be a lot better. I feel like if I, again, if I had the, if I had the time for it in my, in my life, I feel like every week, every month I'd be, you know, because I, I like, I like to read a bit when I, when I have the time and there's always new things that I want to, want to learn more about. And that gives me a lot of fulfillment. How important is it for you to start making steps towards making that a reality on a scale of one to 10? Ooh, that's a good question. Um,

Honestly, right now is probably like a two because I just, I can't see any way. Like I know that for the next two years, I've got to grind out this foundation training. And maybe at that point, then I'll have time in my life to, if I take a break, but then I know if I take a break, then I'm not going to have a salary coming in. And so I keep on coming up against that barrier of, I know I'm in this career path. I know I need the money to pay rent, but like, I just don't feel like, I feel like once I have the time, then of course I can do all the lifelong learning. Yeah.

How long have you been saying that to yourself when I have the time? Honestly, for the last eight years. Ever since I got into med school, I was like, when I get out, then I'll have time to do this. And now that I'm working, I think, when I take my break, then I'll have time to do this. So I've been telling myself that for eight years at this point. Eight years. I'm curious, if you were to have taken some small steps eight years ago, where do you think you could be now? Oh, wow.

Yeah, you got me. Probably living a life that I feel more enthused by, I guess. Although even then it's,

It's hard to say because like this, this career path that I'm in feels like it's, you know, I'm on this, I'm on this conveyor belt and I have to, but I guess, I guess that's what I've been telling myself that I have to keep on taking that next step within medicine itself, which feels like it doesn't really leave enough time for the things that I want to do. I'm curious. You said you've been telling yourself, is that really you telling yourself? Is it really me telling myself? I think it's... Or is that someone else telling you that inside? Yeah.

Inside? As in, is it because that's been imprinted into you by an outside influence? Is that really what it is you want to do? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. I think like ever since I even entertained the thought of going to medical school, everyone around me has been telling me how difficult it's going to be and how tough it is. And, you know, obviously during school I had to grind super hard to get all these like grades and stuff.

And when I was at university and medical school, suddenly from day one, it was like, okay, well, you've got to continue grinding because it's specialty applications and foundation applications. And it's like, at every stage, I've been so focused on how do I tick that next box that to me, it's always felt like, oh, of course, I don't have time in my life. I'm a medical student now. I have to be grinding all the time to pass my exams and stuff. Here's a thought for you. And I think it's something you know deep down. It's not a question of time.

It's a question of whether it is important to you. You and I know that if something is really important to you, you will make time for it. If I was to recommend you a Netflix show that everyone is watching at the moment, that is getting all the attention in the press, I have no doubt you will find time to watch it.

So I feel deep down, you know yourself, it's not a question of time. It's a question of importance. How important is it for you to do something that is more fulfilling, to live life for you and not for others? I've never thought of that. Now that you mention it, it's pretty important. It's pretty important. I would love for that to be my life. So my challenge to you

And I don't know where this is going to go after this, but let's say we were to touch base in a week from now. What would be one thing that you would commit to doing between now and next week, however small, to start making what you've shared with me a reality? Okay. I guess I could, like, for example, I like this idea of starting a podcast. I think it would be cool. So I guess I could watch a YouTube video about how to start a podcast and...

start making a plan of what that could look like. I'm noticing the word could a lot. I'm going to rephrase the question again. What will you do between now and next week? I will watch a YouTube video about how to start a podcast and I will make a plan for what my podcast is going to look like. Great. Let's get specific. Get your calendar out. When exactly will you be blocking out time to watch that YouTube video?

Okay. So I've got a shift tomorrow and the day after, but, oh, I've only got a half day, you know, on Sunday. So Sunday, finish work at 1pm, get home by 2, I'd say lunch, 2 to 3. Okay. 3 to 4pm, I will make time to watch that YouTube video. Fantastic. And then the second part to what you shared, when will you make plans to move forward? So you said watch YouTube video and then make some plans to make that a reality. When would be a good time to make some plans for you?

No question. So I'm actually free that rest of the afternoon. So 3 to 4pm, I'll watch that YouTube video and find a bunch of videos to figure out what the next steps are. And then 4 to 5pm, I'll commit to making a plan of what my podcast is going to look like. Amazing. You know what, I can't wait to speak to you again next week and hear how you've got on with watching those YouTube videos and to see what you put together in that plan.

Nice. That's so good. How did you learn how to do that? I would love to be able to do that. What's the secret? If you noticed, a lot of coaches when they first start is we're seeking bank of questions. What are the questions I should ask? Which is the right question to ask in the right moment? The truth is the best question comes in the moment. The best question can only present itself when we listen to what the other person is saying because

Once we begin stepping into that person's world, so what I was doing, if you were noticing, I was data gathering. And as I was data gathering, it allowed me to step into your world a bit more to see the world that you were living in. And so it helped me to understand where to push, where to challenge, but also where to question. And that can only be built through practice. As with any skill, to master something, we've got to practice it.

Nice. Okay. So coming back to your, so you're working in finance and you were kind of helping people get into jobs in the city. That's fairly analogous to what I was doing in medicine, helping people get into med school. And that was for me how I realized, oh, I actually really enjoy teaching. Teaching is kind of fun. It's this cool thing to do. And so you said that you did this two-day coaching thing. What was that?

What was that like? Sure. So it was run by a company called the Coaching Academy. I went in there just like yourself, Ali. I was a bit skeptical. I went in there thinking, what am I going to really learn in two days? The saving grace was the fact that it was free and the only thing that it would cost me was my time. By the end of that weekend, I remember coming home to my wife and I said to her,

I want to sign up to this course. It's so exciting and I can't wait to learn more about how to apply these coaching skills into the lives of other people. And two years later, I finished. So I was balancing this alongside a nine to five.

I finished with two qualifications and then I started to apply that in the conversations that I had with people. And before long, I started to build my coaching practice and then from there, things started to happen organically. I went from dad into speaking, being invited onto Sky News and the BBC to talk about my work and then more recently, signing a book there with Penguin to write not only about my journey but what I've learned through the work that I've done with clients and also speaking to audiences from corporate to the public.

Nice. One criticism that some people have of the coaching industry is that it's unregulated and anyone can just call themselves a coach and you see these 18-year-old influencers who suddenly become life coaches. What's going on in that side of the industry? I guess you're sort of in it, so you can speak to that. I think this is why it goes back to...

Getting an experience with a coach first before you agree to do anything. Because as you said, it's one of those industries where anybody can be a coach. I mean, you can set up your social media account in a couple of hours. You can call yourself a coach and you can start marketing what you do. But for me, when I'm looking for a coach or mentor, I want to see somebody's track record. I also want to have an experience with someone so I know what they're capable of.

A lot of people can read books and think they're a great coach straight away without any practice or experience. It's not just in the coaching world. It's in a lot of different businesses. We can start something and people find it very difficult to know the difference because we have an abundant of services in the world that we're in at the moment. And so for me, it's important to be careful about who you trust in the online world.

But also, what we want to do is to look at how they're focusing on themselves as well. Because as a coach, we can only lead and take people as far as we have gone ourselves. And if we're not improving, if we're not putting ourselves out there, if we don't even have a coach or mentor ourselves, how can we help those that we want to help? And so again, research is such a critical component of this. But it's a valid question, Ali, because I often get asked how important qualifications are as part of becoming a coach.

because in a world in which, as you said, anybody can become a coach, how important of a role do qualifications play? I got my qualifications after studying for a couple of years, but it's a tricky one. And how I tend to respond to this is that what is more important is the results that somebody has got. Because you might have somebody who has all the qualifications under the sun. They're great at what they do, but

they don't have the experience. They haven't built a successful business. Or you can have somebody with little to no qualifications, yet they have incredible results and work with some inspiring clients and have been featured in multiple media outlets. I mean, who are you going to be more inclined to work with? More likely the latter. And so it's important to focus on the results that you can get. And over time, that speaks for itself. Okay. So...

We'd love to talk more about the book in a sec, but I guess one kind of final strand I wanted to go down was, let's say someone's listening to this and thinking, oh, quite fancy myself becoming a coach. And maybe they're, I don't know, working a normal job or they're a student or something. Actually, yeah, let's say they're working a normal job and they don't particularly enjoy the job and they're like, you know, this coaching thing seems pretty good. But realistically, they're looking at it as like, oh, yeah.

You're saying I can make money by just asking people's questions? I mean, that sounds fun. Let's say I'm in that position where I've got my day job and I like the idea of being a coach on the side to make a bit of money and potentially quit my job one day. What would be the next action steps and would you recommend this as a path to go down? Well...

With regards to the question of would I recommend it as a path to go down, for me, the first place is to really understand why is coaching important to them. Because I don't want them to be doing it just because they saw someone make a lot of money from it or they saw it as a glamorous path. Because as glamorous as some paths can be, there is always the

challenges, the setbacks and the failures that you are going to experience. And so if you're not really focused on wanting to make something out of that path,

you're not going to survive the setbacks and the challenges you will naturally face on the journey. And so for me, the first place is to understand how important is it for you to become a coach? What is this purpose in embarking on this journey? Now, if money comes into it, I would then throw the question back to them and say, let's say you've made all the money you've ever wanted. So let's say money is not an issue now. What would you do with that money?

Because it's to help them understand that money is not an end goal, it's a means goal. It's fuel. It's like filling up your car. Money is like the petrol you put into your car. You've got to know where you're driving your car to in order to know how much petrol to put into it. In order to know how much money you want to have, then you've got to understand what you're going to use that money for.

Otherwise, you fall into the trap of lottery winners who, when they win the jackpot, they end up becoming bankrupt or in a worse position than they were before they won the jackpot because they simply didn't have a purpose for the money. And if you don't have a purpose for money, what happens is you end up just spending it. Okay. So in my case, let's say this doctor example, I've listened to this podcast and I'm thinking, oh, yes, I want to be a coach. And I'm thinking…

I do like teaching. You know, I taught people, I taught students in medical school and that was quite fun. And part of being a doctor is about being a teacher, you know, classic interview answer. And so I like the idea of teaching and I like the idea of being able to help people through asking them questions. And I thought the questions you asked me to get me started on my podcast were particularly like, oh, that was nice. I feel like I made progress there. But realistically, I'm also thinking, hmm, my salary is about 33K right now, working 60 hours a week.

could I make an extra one or two thousand pounds a month because if I do that I can potentially save up for a deposit on a house and then I'll just feel less of a money insecurity so I'd be combining this vague interest that I have in like oh yeah I think I think I enjoy teaching I want to make money I thought this coach stuff sounds pretty interesting and in my mind I'm also thinking realistically that

are you saying that I just need a few clients who'll pay me some money? I mean, like starting a podcast feels really hard. Like, you know, there's no way it's going to get big. Like, you know, it's like trying to be a musician or something that's basically never going to work. But

could I possibly make one or two thousand pounds a month by being a coach? So those would be the motivations floating around. For me, the first two areas that I would explore in my questions would be one, space, and second, focus. So what I mean by space is, well, let's look at your week. How much space in your diary do you currently have, and how much would you need to actually give this some proper dedication? So

I would look at your week and say, "Okay, what can you eliminate or what can you reduce to give yourself some more oxygen and space to explore this interest of yours?" Now once we've got that in place, the next part is to actually get some focus. I think it was Cal Newport that first talked about focus being today's IQ.

He said that in the past we would measure people's IQ by how much they knew. Nowadays, when you and I can go into Google, we can ask Amazon Alexa and get an answer within seconds. It's not about how much you know now, it's about your ability to focus. And so the next question I would ask is how will you know that with the space you have over the next seven days, it will have been a productive week? And so it's beginning with the end in mind. So now what we're doing is we're bringing a bit of focus into the space that we've created.

And then now, once we've got this put together, we now have some path that we're working towards. Because at a high level, if we want to design our life, if we want to design something that is fulfilling, it begins with designing our days. If we can't design our days, how can we expect to design a life? Okay. So...

Coming back to the question of would you recommend the career path? It sounds like, yeah, if you want to make money and you enjoy teaching and you think you'd use the money to do something good, then it would be a reasonable... I'm all for that. Because as long as it's a path that is fulfilling for you, that you are interested in, that you're curious about, that plays to your strengths, why not? But also not to be attached to the outcome of it. You know, I went to...

Kyoto in Japan, and there was a beautiful English statement at one of the temples, and it read, be attached to no outcome and open to everything. Now, I've tried my best to embody that principle throughout my entrepreneurial journey, because I think so many of us get caught up in outcomes. So we'll try something, and if it doesn't work out, we tend to stop and give up. But if we can detach ourselves from outcomes, then what it allows us to do is simply just experiment. And as the second part of the sentence says, be open to everything.

Very often we're like, when I get this, when I get more time, when this happens, when I get that qualification, then I'll start. When everything is ready, but the fact is we'll never be 100% ready. And if we're always measuring our success by outcomes only, then it's not going to be a very enjoyable journey. But actually, if we can focus on who we are becoming today,

how we are going for our own personal metamorphosis in the journey, that to me is the greatest reward. It's not what you get, but it's who you become in the process. Okay, nice. So as I'm going through this path of learning to become a coach, because maybe the destination I have in mind is like, I'll make an extra couple of grand a month. But it sounds like you're saying I should also figure out a way to, I guess, enjoy the process and become the sort of person I want to become through the journey. Yeah.

rather than being fixated on like, I need to make 2k a month extra. Definitely. Because I think if you focus on enjoying the process, if you start to put healthy discipline systems in place, what happens is that you're setting yourself up to achieve multiple outcomes, not just one outcome, but you open yourself up to achieve outcomes that you may not even see possible right now. I mean, if you speak to anyone who's committed to a journey, and I use the word committed purposefully,

Anyone who's committed to a journey and played full out and has been open to everything They've often got more than they bargained for they may have thought at the beginning I'll be great if I get X and then once they committed to the journey They suddenly got more than just X and now X becomes small compares everything else they're achieving And so that's why it's important to actually enjoy the process because when we do that the rewards will eventually come. Mm-hmm

Yeah, like this is something that I say a lot in our YouTuber Academy, in our course where

There is one view that like, oh, you've got to grind out YouTube for the next two years and then only then will you have success. And that is true. But like my model has always been that find a way to enjoy the journey because like you're so unlikely to get a measurable successful outcome in a small amount of time. And if you're wedded to that, then, you know, those are the sorts of people that burn out within like a couple of weeks or months and realize, oh, this YouTube thing is hard and it's not getting any results. But I think what I did well in the early days was

not be attached to an outcome. Just focus on the process, focus on the things that I can control, one or two videos a week, and focus on making it fun for myself and have a little bit of improvement, which was inherently enjoyable and energizing. And then it almost didn't matter what the outcome was or what the numbers were because I knew that my life was being enriched by the journey. Yeah, I love that, Alain. And I can personally resonate with that because if I look back at the progress I've made, I never...

plan to be a speaker. I never planned to write a book, but it just shows that you get more than you bargained for when you commit to the journey. So when I left employment, it was just simple, build a healthy, thriving coaching practice. That was all I was focused on doing.

But as I started to do that, and I was playing with my systems, I was building a learning mindset, I was hiring mentors and coaches. Before long, people said, Simon, you should speak at this event. And then, oh, Simon, can we interview you for this media outlet? Simon, have you thought about writing a book?

And so what happens is that when you show up at a certain vibrational frequency, what happens is you begin to attract things into your life that feel dreamlike sometimes. And that for me is why the journey is so enjoyable, why the journey has to be fun. Because what happens is that's where the magic is.

What do you mean by show up at a certain vibrational frequency? Sure. So what I mean by that is that when you show up in the world, whether it's in a conversation, whether it's an event, whether it's how you deliver your business, when you vibrate at a certain way. Now, what I mean by this is that you show up with a certain energy. And the best way to describe this is that if you were going to an event to hear someone speak or to network with people,

You might say to your friends, I really liked this person. I can't explain why, but there's something about that person I really like. That's what we're talking about when we say energy. It's a language that has no words, but you and I can feel it.

It's like when you go to a networking event and you're deciding, who do I speak to? Who do I introduce myself to? If two people come up to you, you're naturally drawn to one over the other. Now, you can't explain it. You might just say, there's just something about him or her. And that's what I'm talking about, about vibration, frequency, and energy. When we show up in a certain way, what happens is that we draw people into our field and they want to spend time with us. They want to help us. They want to see us get to that next level. Yeah.

How does one cultivate one's own sense of vibrational frequency/energy/vibes? Sure. This is where we go into how I describe energy. Energy, in one sense, is this life force that we all possess. In the Maori culture, they call it mana. In my Chinese culture, we call it qi. If you are a fan of the Star Wars film franchise, you probably refer to it as the force. On the one hand, it's this life force that we all have, but we don't access enough.

Now, in order to really elevate the energetic quality of our field, it requires us to look at four dimensions: physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual. We, as a society, tend to only focus on the physical: get more sleep, get more rest, move your body, feed yourself right. But we tend to neglect the other three, often because they're more invisible: the mental, the emotional, and spiritual.

But once we start addressing those other three dimensions, that's how we begin to show up with more energy. I mean just imagine this for a moment. With regards to spiritual energy, you are doing something that is aligned to who you are, that allows you to express your strengths and you feel that you're in flow most of the time. That's what we call high in spiritual energy. Low in spiritual energy is where the work that you're doing is not aligned to the work that you want to do. And that's where we have some tension that exists inside of us.

And some of us may relate to this. You know, you go into work on a Monday morning, there is tension because you're doing work where you feel you're trapped or you're not able to express some of those skills that are still dormant inside of you for so long.

Emotional energy is how you respond to what happens in the external world, but also how you relate to yourself and others. Now when we can understand the way we relate to ourselves and others and we can respond in a healthy way, that's where we begin bending and shaping our reality into one that is working for us and not against us. You know, in the book earlier I

introduce this word to the audience. I say that we all know about the word paranoia. That is the feeling that somebody's out to sabotage me. I am not getting that promotion because somebody's trying to put me down or spread gossip. Why is it always me that I fail and I can't get the success that other people are getting? The word I introduce people to is pronoia.

Pranoya is this belief that the universe is conspiring in your favor, that life is working for you and not against you. And the question I give to my audience is imagine where life could be if you embraced pranoya.

where every setback and challenge was meant to exist to give you a lesson, to serve you in some way. So this is all about emotional energy. Mental energy is then our ability to focus and access our creativity, which we all have. We're born innately creative. So once we have the ability to focus on what is most important,

and access our creativity, we operate at a far higher energetic level. So once we begin focusing on these dimensions, that's what I mean by showing up with more energy. And so the kind of vibe that someone would have if they have their physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual energy aligned or in check or whatever,

will naturally create some sort of X factor that makes you feel drawn to them as a person. Definitely. This person seems cool. Definitely. I mean, even if we look at this quote, and it just popped into my head, Ali, by Maya Angelou. She said, when people hear you, they may forget who you are. They may forget what you say, but they will never forget how you made them feel. And that is talking to energy.

Because when we walk out of a room and we've heard someone connect with us at an emotional level, we never forget that experience. So how does the book come into this? What is the book about? So the book taps into what I shared about energy within those four dimensions.

It's about how we can transform the way we live and work by transforming our relationship with energy. And so it's also a journey of my own, you know, from the world of finance to what I do today, but also what I've learned from working with my clients, observing success stories around me and the lessons that I've acquired along the way. And

It's a stark reminder to people reading it that when we embrace that eternal student mindset, we begin to open our field to over a billion teachers around the world, that every person has a story to share and lessons to tell. And if we're humble enough to operate from that perspective, life can be so enjoyable. I mean, we're learning machines. We fully embrace that white belt mentality and we become aware that there is so much that is possible.

Okay. So let's, let's take things back to my junior doctor example. And I've got my thing in the calendar to do the podcast or maybe, and maybe I'm sort of thinking, Oh, this coach thing sounds kind of cool. Um, as you describe the energy thing, I'm thinking, yeah, I feel like I'm probably low on spiritual energy because the thing that I'm doing in my day, in my day job feels like there's, there's this tension between what I think I want and what I think my strengths are.

i.e learning and teaching and stuff and like what i'm actually doing i being an admin monkey broadly i think physical health wise probably don't get enough sleep um probably you know because i take away on the way home from work from the mcdonald's drive-thru uh i don't take my health very seriously that's actually what i do back in the day um mental yeah i think i i think i can focus reasonably well and emotional uh

I think I respond to people reasonably well, but I guess I can see a big gap in physical and spiritual. Is that how? Yeah, so that would be a good place to start because awareness is the most important place to start. I often say that we can't have self-development without self-awareness because you can't change what you're not aware of. And so once we've got an idea within those four dimensions, well, what is giving me energy? What is draining me of energy? Then the next thing I would say is then given what you shared with me,

that you would like to do or what could be improved, if you were to pick just one of the things that you shared with me, which one of those things that if you were to give attention to it would have the greatest impact on all the other areas for you? I mean, I think if I could magically make my job feel more in alignment with myself, then that would have a big knock-on effect. But I feel like I'm kind of stuck in this job for the next, at least for the next two years. So that almost seems like a non-starter unless there's something I can do to change that. Mm-hmm.

So what is in your control that you can do? Hmm.

I mean, I can definitely stop eating takeaway from the McDonald's drive-thru every day. I can definitely take my sleep a bit more seriously, go to bed. Cause I know I have to wake up early to get to work like 6am, but that means I could, it is in my control to sleep at 10 and get eight hours of sleep rather than to take my phone into bed with me and like scroll Twitter for an hour and then feel like bleary eyed the next morning. Yeah, that's definitely in my control. Yeah.

So when will you begin sleeping at that time so you can wake up less bleary-eyed and not scrolling on your phones and waking up with low energy? You know what? Tonight, I'm going to do it. I'm going to sleep at 10 because I know I have to wake up at 6 tomorrow. Fantastic. Well, let's touch base some more. And I look forward to hearing how much energy you have when you wake up with a full night's sleep. Nice. It all comes together. Yeah, I think this is great. I find that even with...

so much of coaching is just like asking, asking the questions and just providing a little bit of a prod of accountability. Yeah. And people kind of know what the answer is. Like we all do. Yeah. And, and, and the thing is we know what the answers are deep inside of us, but for whatever reason, and it's different for each of us, we're afraid to take the steps forward. And sometimes it's just putting things in a new perspective and,

shifting our mind in a certain way to get those aha moments that will be the prod, as you say, for us to take action. Okay. You know, talking of skepticism, I remember I was invited to a company over in Canary Wharf to do a talk. And at the end of the event, one of these managers comes up to me. And you know, these managers didn't have to come. They just kind of went along because it was hosted in the building. Yeah.

He said to me, "Simon, what you said makes a lot of sense. I can hear what you're saying, but why is it important? Why should I listen to what you shared? What is the incentive for me to apply this to my daily life?" The question I asked him forced him to pause and to reflect. That's one of the purposes behind good questions. I simply said to him, "When was the last time you felt truly happy?" He had to pause.

Because it's the sort of question we don't really reflect on often. And he paused because he had to think about that question a lot, which told me a lot of things. First thing it told me is that maybe he wasn't happy right now, the fact that he had to go and think about it. And he said, you know what, Simon, it's interesting, that question. I'm just realizing as you asked me that question, some of the cars I've bought, some of the investments I've made, they've been great for a while, but I don't think they really make me happy.

And the question is quite challenging because I think it's been a long while since I have felt truly happy. And literally the question I asked next, it was as simple as, what does that tell you? And that's because he already knows what it is telling him. Sometimes we just have to verbalize it in order to bring to our awareness of where we are and where we actually want to be. And so asking those questions in the moment really helped to shift

his mind from one that was skeptical to one that was interested to what could be. This episode is very kindly brought to you by WeWork. Now, this is particularly exciting for me because I have been a full-paying customer of WeWork for the last two years now. I discovered it during, you know, when the pandemic was on the verge of being lifted and I'd spent like the whole year just sort of sitting in my room making YouTube videos. But then I discovered WeWork and I

I was a member, me and Angus, my team members, we were members of the WeWork in Cambridge and they have like hundreds of other locations worldwide as well. And it was incredible because we had this fantastic, beautifully designed office space to go to, to work. And we found ourselves like every day, just at nine o'clock in the morning, just going to WeWork because it was a way nicer experience working from the coworking space than it was just sitting at home working. These days, what me and everyone on my team has is the all access pass, which means you're not tied to a specific WeWork location, but it means you can use any of their several hundred coworking spaces around London, around the UK, and also around the world.

And one of the things I really love about the coworking setup is that it's fantastic as a bit of a change of scenery. So these days I work from home, I've got the studio at home, but if I need to get some focused writing work done and I'm feeling a bit drained just sitting at my desk all day, I'll just pop over to the local WeWork, which is about a 10 minute walk from where I am. I'll take my laptop with me, I'll get some free coffee from there, I'll get a few snacks. And it's just such a great vibe and you get to meet cool people. I made a few friends through meeting them at WeWork and it's just really nice being in an environment almost like a library, but kind of nicer because there's like

a little bit of soft music in the background and there's other kind of startup bros and creators and stuff in there as well. And it's just my absolute favorite coworking space of all time. It's super easy to book a desk or book a conference room using the app. And it's a great place to meet up with team members if you're gonna collaborate and you'll live in different places. They've got unlimited tea and coffee and herbal teas and drinks on tap. And they've also got various kind of after work events that happen like happy hours and yoga and a few other exercise type things. And you can also take in guests. So often when guests will come over to visit,

I'll say, "Hey, let's pop into WeWork and we'll just work from there for the whole day and then we'll go out for dinner sometime in the evening." Anyway, if you're looking for a coworking space for you or your team, then I'd 100% recommend WeWork. Like I said, I've been a paying customer for theirs for the last two years, which is why it's particularly exciting that they're now sponsoring this episode. And if you wanna get 50% off your first booking, then do head over to we.co/ali and you can use the coupon code ali at checkout A-L-I to get 50% off your first booking. So thank you so much WeWork for sponsoring this episode.

So let's take another couple of examples. I'm just like, this is great. I just love how you're responding to all of it. Like, I'm trying to be a bit of a dick, like, to be like, oh, come on, coaching. And then you're like, just ask, and I'm like, oh, you're right. That's a good question. And then I'm really just like, and even though, like, I'm sort of in a way role-playing a character with this doctor thing, I'm sort of at the same time feeling like, oh, shit, that's a really good question. I should think about that in my own life as well. So one thing that,

And now I'm kind of speaking completely personally. One thing that I struggle with is taking my physical health more seriously. In my mind, I have this idea of like, oh, it'd be cool to be a bit more ripped. It'd be cool to get maybe six pack abs. But like, I end up eating takeaway quite a lot and...

I think my health at the moment is like fine. Like it could be better, but it's like fine. And I'm not sure how much I care about the six pack abs versus, but like, I know that like I should care about my physical health and how, how should, how would,

yeah if yeah well first of all based on what you showed ali if it's only for the six-pack abs and get a muscle look uh that's not going to be sufficient uh you and i probably know that's not going to be sufficient enough motivation uh to keep you consistent because everybody that starts their news resolution with i want to get fitter i want to lose weight i want to get six-pack abs you

you know what happens. They sign up to the gym three, four months later, they're using it far less than they ever did. And by the time we get to September, October, they may be using it once a week, twice a week, if that. And so we stop being consistent. Because what we know at a high level is that there's no such thing as overnight success. There's only overtime success. And so in order to play the long game and be consistent in having that healthy habit, we've got to have a purpose for it.

And this is tied in with the concept of living with intention. What is your purpose to get fit? Why is it important to have a healthy lifestyle? Now, until you have a reason to have a healthy lifestyle,

you're not gonna maintain that consistency so for me at the beginning just to give you some background on how i've maintained my healthy lifestyle at the beginning it was simply because i knew i was going to get married in in about 10 months and i had just ordered a tailor-made suit and i i could lose weight but i couldn't gain weight otherwise i would have to buy another suit

And so that was my initial purpose, was that if I embrace a healthy lifestyle, I could fit in the suit and I wouldn't have to worry about getting another one. Now, once I started to get into the routine after the wedding, it just became part of my lifestyle. And then another motivation kicked in later when I became a parent is that

I then wanted to live a long life so I could see my child grow up, go to school, go to college, experience life, go through their own personal development. And in order to do that, suddenly living a healthy life became a core to living a long life. And also because bringing to the mix the fact that I lost my mom when I was 17, that showed me how fragile life was.

And I didn't want something that was in my control, i.e. physical health, to be a factor why I could not live a long life. If it's in my control, I wanted to make sure that I could address it to the best of my ability. And now that became a purpose for living a healthy lifestyle, so that I could live a long life with my wife and I could be there for my children when they grow up. That became something powerful enough to make going to the gym, going running outside, going swimming,

tiny in comparison to the rewards that I would get. So is it about like essentially maxing out our motivation to want to do the thing? It's to have a reason to do it. If you don't have a sufficient reason to do something, you're not going to keep it up. And you have to have a reason to do something. The more important the reason and the more personal the reason, the more you're going to keep at it.

So my thing of like, it would be cool to get six pack abs because maybe I can like, I don't know, become a gym shark athlete. I don't actually care about that. It's not a thing that resonates, like that's emotionally moved. It's just, it would be kind of cool. And then I can post a topless pic on Instagram. Exactly. And I think you've kind of answered your question, Ali. You said it's not something you care about. And so my challenge to you would be to find something you care about in which that plays a role in whatever you care about. Okay.

So let's say on the physical health front, like I love playing squash, tennis, badminton. And I don't do a lot of that right now because in my mind I'm sort of thinking, but I want to, I want to get big for some reason. And I'm thinking like, well, squash, badminton, I mean, like I should probably just do weights and stuff. But actually the thing I enjoy is playing squash with friends and doing like sports.

potentially even hosting like a five-a-side football night with some friends or like doing like a little like weekly badminton get together and that would be super fun because it's a sport that i enjoy and it's socializing whereas right now it's like you know i have an hour session with my personal trainer this evening and i'm not looking forward to it i know it's gonna be a bit grim yeah i'm gonna say something it's interesting because what you shared i'm gonna reflect back to you yeah you said that

It'll be more fun if I did the squash and organize the football. It's very social. And I noticed you were quite excited sharing that. But then when it came to the personal trainer, your tone dropped and you said, ah, it's grim. I'm not really looking forward to it. And you and I know we spoke about this before that in order to actually be disciplined with a process, it's got to be fun and enjoyable. And so it sounds like you're going against what is actually fun and enjoyable for you to do something which maybe you don't care so much about. Mm-hmm.

which is the getting big, gym shark athlete, show the body off. But actually what brings you more fun and enjoyment is doing the squash and spending time with friends, playing five-a-side football or whatever it is that you were mentioning just now. That's telling, isn't it? Yeah. Why am I holding on to this six-pack? And the thing is, there's never one route to get to

a goal that is common amongst many of us. There's a case study I show in the book about an athlete called Sophie Radcliffe. She hated the gym. She never considered herself a natural athlete.

Instead, what she did is she went outdoors. She signed herself up to challenges such as triathlons, cycling challenges, climbing mountains, and these sort of things. She found so much joy and fulfillment from that, that actually her brand has just catapulted to the next level. She's been partnering with the likes of Eurostar and BBC and all these other brands who have followed her in her travels as far as Malaysia, to Europe, to America.

to cycling challenges she has taken on. But all of these things are outdoors. They're outside of the gym, but they make her feel alive and it's what she finds fun doing. Nice. We talked a little bit earlier about, you know, if you want to stay disciplined with something, it's important to find a way to make it enjoyable, to enjoy the process. I very much vibe with that.

But it strikes me that it's quite a privileged position to be in because a lot of people have to do things that they don't necessarily find fun or particularly want to do. Any student that is like, I know I want to be a doctor, but to get there, I know I have to grind out these random subjects I actually don't care about because I know it's a prerequisite.

or someone who's working a job they might not necessarily enjoy because they have to pay the bills. How do we approach that? How would you be approaching that kind of thing? Sure. Well, first of all, I think there's two camps to what you shared. On the one hand, it's, well, is that thing you want actually what you want?

Because if the steps required to get there isn't something that excites you, is that really what you want then? Because whenever you embark on a path, you are going to have to go through doing things you don't want to do.

The second camp is you might still like the destination, but you might not like that process and you want to get creative. So I think there's two camps. The first question is, is that actually something you want to do if you don't like the journey? The second is, if you do really like the outcome, how can you change the journey? And that's where we can get a bit creative. If you look at, and I'm going to use the cooking world as an example, because there are some great case studies there. If you look at Heston Blumenthal,

He has become one of the most well-known chefs in the world. He's become a TV personality. But yet, the guy has received no formal training. He learned by himself how to cook. And he ended up coming up with his own style of cooking. And that's what he became known for. So he bypassed what many would have had to take years to qualify in order to have become the chef that they want to be. But Heston took a very different approach. If we

Look at another case study in the book that I wrote here, Kylie Flavell. It is a woman who I refer to in this case study. She moved from Australia to Italy.

And she couldn't afford to pay a video production company to put together these YouTube videos. She wanted to create her own travel show where she would travel the world and interview local communities. So she hopped onto YouTube and she learned everything there was to know about editing, distribution, production, recording, directing and producing.

And she became a one-woman media company and has grown her YouTube channel massively since she first started and has partnered with some of the world's most well-known brands. So she bypassed the fact, again, she had to go to a school or to learn from people how to film and to get qualifications. So I think if it's something you really want to do is if you don't like the process to get there, how can you be a bit more creative in arriving at the same destination and

Because as I mentioned earlier, there's never just one way. We are quickly conditioned to think there is only one way. Just as I was when I grew up, I had to go to a good school, get top grades, go to a good university in order to get a good job. But actually today, you can still get a good job by not going through the same process. So how do you think a little different in achieving the same aims? Okay, cool. So let's say I am thinking, cool,

a i want to get a coach myself and that's you know i'll do some googling i'll find someone maybe see if i've got anyone in my network who has some recommendations and i'm also thinking i like this idea of becoming a coach like what is the playbook for becoming a coach like what what like let's say a friend of yours were to be like right someone i want to become a coach uh what are the next steps that you should take sure well

I can only reference my own experience. The first thing I would always say is to look at learning the skill of coaching. Because if you just jump straight into it, you will quickly be found out that you don't have the relevant experience or qualifications. I would first say learn about the skill of coaching either by signing up to...

one of these courses where you can learn about the skill, signing up for qualification, or shadowing and learning from people who have done it for years. That would be my first step. Second, as with anything, you know, if you want to become a writer, you write. If you want to speak, you speak. If you want to coach, coach. So get out there and start coaching people for free at the beginning. Start building up that experience because what

happens when you start coaching people is that gives you exposure to different people from different backgrounds, different life situations, different goals, different aims. So what happens is the more people you coach through the way that you speak, through the way that you have these conversations,

the more knowledge and wisdom you will have when it comes to coaching people that eventually pay you. And so how would you go about finding these free clients? Would you say to your friends, hey, I'm going to be a life coach. Do you want to sign up? Definitely. I would say as with any business, when you first start, tap your network. Tap your network at the beginning. When I first started, I just reached out to a few trusted friends and said, I am looking to start my coaching business soon. And in

In order to build that experience, I'm looking for free people who would like to be coached by me for the next six months at zero cost in exchange for a testimonial and feedback. That's exactly how I started. Now, people love things for free, especially when they can get to experience something they've not had been exposed to before. That's exactly how I started. And

If it didn't go well, nothing to lose. They haven't paid me. This is not public. This is a very private conversation. If it did go well, chances are they would refer me to their network. They would write a glowing testimonial. And so those things will lead to my next clients and my next clients. Nice.

The other day, I met someone who recognized me at the station. She said that she'd been in medicine for 14 years and was leaving to become a coach and was doing a coaching qualification. We grabbed breakfast a couple of days later and she was doing a qualification and therefore, through that, found a bunch of free people that she was coaching.

And I was sort of challenging her on why she wasn't charging for the thing just yet. She said, oh, you know, I need to wait another six months until my qualification finishes. I was like, okay, cool. What then? And then she was like, oh, well, you know, then I need to build my brand, set up my website, like, you know, organic marketing, content marketing. It's like,

I was like, I mean, what's stopping you from trying to make the sale, from charging the money? And then there was a lot of emotional barriers around the fear of charging money for a thing. What was your experience of dealing with like, because anytime someone sells something, especially selling a service, something that feels as personal as coaching, it always feels like there's a bit of like a response to the selling of the thing. Again, I think

When we have a bit of a tension inside when we're selling something, my experience tells me is that because you don't believe in it enough, you don't believe in what you have to offer enough. I mean, if you really believe that what you are offering, whether it's a product or whether it is a service has value to the person's life. Yeah.

It is easy to sell. It is easy to sell because you're coming from a place of, I know this can have an impact on your life. I know that if we were to work together, I don't know what the outcomes will be, but I know you will be in a very different place 12 months from now. Now, if you truly believe that, it comes across. The selling becomes easy. Now, of course, it is challenging at the beginning. You know, when I had the opportunity to meet my first CEO client of a major business,

I had imposter syndrome. I was like, am I ready to work with someone at that level? And then I realized that in order to show up and serve them in a powerful way, I had to act in the present as the person that I wanted to be tomorrow. And that really helped to build that belief, to see that I was ready for what was coming, but also I was ready to have those conversations.

Yeah, it strikes me that this thing of not believing in your own product almost is, again, just to use the YouTube example, is an issue I see with a lot of YouTuber friends. And I have this a lot myself sometimes, which is where there's a bit of internal tension around making a video because like, oh, is this video actually good enough? I'm not sure if this is actually going to be valuable. But what I find, you know, as Austin Kleon writes about is that, you know,

But usually we are our own worst critics and the bar that we have for something that we put out is generally different to the bar that the audience has. And I could put out something that I potentially think is bad, but could actually be really helpful to 10,000 people. Possibly not 10 million people, but hey, whatever, at least 10,000 people would find it useful. And so in that sense, what do you think is this balance between

that internal feeling that I might have of like, my product isn't good enough. I feel a bit weird about it versus the fact that even in its bad state, it could well be quite useful to someone. And it goes back to this idea of being attached to an outcome and open to everything. It's that when we're detached from the outcome, but just focused on the process, we get the first video out. Then we simply step back and we ask ourself one, what went well? And

And two, what could be better next time? And then we do the next video, ask ourselves the same question, do the next video, ask ourselves the same question. So what we're focusing on is less the outcome from each video, but more the improvement from video to video. And that's what's most important because as you said, you can put out what you think is a bit of bad content, but actually people lap it up. You could put out a bit of good content that you think should do really well, but just doesn't do as great as you think.

And it's the same thing with my book. I wrote this book and there's parts of the book I think are really good that people are going to really enjoy and parts that I think

not as good as some other parts. But when the book is out in the open, I suddenly get feedback and I'm seeing some people highlighting pages that I felt weren't as good as I thought it was. And suddenly they found it really good. And so I think it shows us that you can't always predict people's feedback and opinion and views before you put a piece of content out. And it is why, again, the process is so important. Focus on the improvement rather than

the quality of every video because if you let quality be your benchmark, especially when you're just starting, you're going to give up. You can say, I don't have this camera. I don't have these resources. I don't have this team. Well, of course, nobody had that when they first started, but you've got to start somewhere.

I love that. Yeah. Yeah. I had a, I had a moment in, it was in one of our YouTuber Academy cohorts where someone said like, you know, they'd bought the, like the most expensive package and they were like, oh, you know, I just want to say you've really changed my life. That video that he put out on how to, how to beat imposter syndrome, that video really resonated with me. And I was so surprised because that was one of the worst performing videos on the channel. I was like, what?

And she was like, yeah, you know, it's because of that video that I started my YouTube channel. And I, you know, got a promotion at work because I realized that I could be imposter syndrome this way. And that's why I've signed up to your course. And I was just like completely floored because in my mind, that was a dud video. It was awful. Well, it's funny because you mentioned an Austin Kleon quote earlier and another Austin Kleon quote just came up in my head, which is we find our voice by using our voice. And that is the process of iteration. You know, the more you use your voice, the more you can find what your voice is.

you're not going to find it by overthinking on the sidelines to the point of it being too curated that you've kind of lost your voice in it you've just got to as as seth godin says ship it just keep shipping shipping shipping eventually you find out what your voice is i love it simon thank you so much this has been absolutely wonderful i feel like i came into this thinking like okay right this this coaching thing is surely surely like even and it's weird because like

I've had coaches basically nonstop for the last three years, and it's been one of the most freaking incredible ROI positive investments of my life. And actually, three days ago, I started working with the most expensive coach I've ever worked with. He's a CEO coach. And immediately in session number one, it just made so many breakthroughs. And he wasn't even telling me much. He was just asking the right questions. Somehow, I was

so incredibly valuable and even though i was trying to i was trying to give you a hot time i just thought the way you responded to everything was just so great and you have this such this such like warm and like zen energy about you it's just like unfathomable just chill and just like asking such good questions that really strike out oh my god yeah you're right that's that's so true um so thank you so much for being so gracious with your time thank you so much for having me ollie um any final asks for the audience anyone who might be watching or listening to this

a final thought and it's one that I share in chapter two of my book, which is in April 2020, my wife and I gave birth to our first child just a few days after the country went into its first lockdown. And that process reminded me of something that we so often forget, which is that we are all a miracle. I mean, the fact that we were born is a miracle event in itself.

We have won the greatest lottery ticket there is going. I mean, people dream about winning the jackpot in the National Regional Lottery, but we literally have won the greatest jackpot there is going, the lottery of life. And the question I love to leave the audience with is this, what are you going to do with that winning ticket of yours? I love it. Simon, thank you so much. Thank you.

All right, so that's it for this week's episode of Deep Dive. Thank you so much for watching or listening. All the links and resources that we mentioned in the podcast are gonna be linked down in the video description or in the show notes, depending on where you're watching or listening to this. If you're listening to this on a podcast platform, then do please leave us a review on the iTunes store. It really helps other people discover the podcast. Or if you're watching this in full HD or 4K on YouTube, then you can leave a comment down below and ask any questions or any insights or any thoughts about the episode. That would be awesome. And if you enjoyed this episode, you might like to check out this episode here as well, which links in with some of the stuff that we talked about in the episode.

So thanks for watching. Do hit the subscribe button if you want already, and I'll see you next time. Bye bye.