Talking Dateline: The Night of the Nor’easter
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Hi everyone, I am blame Alexander, and we are talking date line. I'm here today with Andrea canning. Hi Andrea.

Hey, blame. So this episode is called the night of the north star. If you haven't seen, it's the episode right below this one on your date line, pop ast feed.

So you can go there, listen to IT or streamed on p cock and then come right back here. So for this episode king date line, Andrea has an extra clip that didn't make IT into the show. Then date line producer susie sin will join me to answer some of your social media questions about the episode, but here's a quick recap of the story.

The trial of Karen re in canton massachuset was among the biggest and most divisive cases of twenty twenty four. SHE is accused of killing her boyfriend, jono kef, a boston police officer, by drunken backing her car into him on a snowy january night in twenty twenty two. Now, Andrea takes us through reed trial this summer, which ended in a hungry y and what to know before reads retrial in, okay, Andrea, let's talk daylight.

Let's do IT. okay. So there were so many things about the story that stood out to me. I think one of them though is the fact that we hear so much from Karen, read herself and and really up top in the story. And I think, I mean, it's rare that we actually get to hear from a suspect the person on trial as much as we do in this episode.

right? Yeah, that was interesting because usually defendants don't do interviews before trial. Very rare in this case. They just wanted to lay IT all out there.

That was clearly part of the strategy for the defense was to be like, look, this is our truth. We're going to put IT out there. Karen has nothing to hide.

SHE really didn't hold back. There wasn't much that was timid about her or anything. I mean, he was just so infected in maintaining her innocence.

Yeah, she's an intelligent woman, well spoken. And that strategy was, let's just show all of our cards did IT work or not, we don't know.

but certainly has garnered a lot of interest.

And also just when you look the social media aspect of IT and just how much attention IT got before the trial have been started, all the people talking about IT on x and on tiktok, and I mean, IT was everywhere. And that was what .

was crazy to that. Not only people were talking about IT, but actually came to town to witness this trial right from, like australia, new zealand. I mean, what do you think IT was that really spoke to people and growth people, to be so interested in this case?

I think some people saw Karen as sort of this wounded bird. You know, that he had been wrongly accused. They believe that there was a cover up.

And I think that people just decided, like, this is a cause we want to be a part of that. You know, Karen read shouldn't be here. And so IT just caught fire. I mean.

people were out there wearing t shirts, and in the fact that they were so kind of like divided amongst each other that there were two camps that felt very strongly. I mean, when you think about cases like this, have you seen something like this before?

So I mean, you know, I I like oj. You know if you look at level, right yeah like if you go back, maybe not as big, of course, but you really hadn't seen anything in a while that was this big. sure. But I feel like we're noticing more and more than that through social media.

We're a spreading like I mean, if you look at even a story that I did that was dumped, the black swan in florida of, you know, a woman who was accused of of killing her husband, even that one had a lot of social media influence and people showing up to court. Not as much as Karen read, but IT shows you that IT sort of feels like this new thing that's happening. Abi t where people are .

getting involved, especially when you have the presence of logistic people who are recovering them. And that brings us to turtle boy.

Yeah, yeah, turtle boy, this activist slash, I don't have journalist influence, or turtle boy really got people fired up.

He was so interesting to me. One, what what do you think was his interest in all of this? I mean, he really jumped in and just kind of got all in on this .

story because I think he latched onto the alleged corruption. The current read and her team have said was a big part of this. Of course, the people, the party that long enforcement, they all deny that they had anything to do with jono keeps death.

But that's turtle boy's thing, right? Is exposing like wrongdoing, corruption going after the establishment, if you will. And so, and I think he saw that was happening here in his eyes, and you know, made IT his big cause .

that in ironic, because he's in legal trouble themselves now, right?

Yeah, turtle boy was charged with, witnessed timidity, and he has pleaded not guilty.

One other thing that really kind of stood out to me about the story, Andrea, was the behind the scenes, you and your team really got a chance to follow the defense along as they were kind of getting ready for trial um walk me through that. What was that like because that's also .

rare access that we don't yeah and that's more of a susiana question in marion hagi. Marian is the booking producer. They really worked hard on this case. So was on the deadline true crime weekly podcast saying how, you know he was waiting outside of court like as early as midnight with her soccer chair trying to get a seat in the tiny courtroom. And everyone .

wants to be there.

everyone to be there. So you mean they they just work. They worked IT hard. And it's like that when you go to these trials and you're there for a long periods of time, you see people in the bathroom, you see people in the courtroom, you see people in the parking lot.

You really get to know .

people yet evolves, because these trousers are long.

Alan Jackson, I mean, as soon as he was introducing your story as he's going to be, he's going to be interesting. There was one thing that he said, I think you asked. O, okay, coming from L, A, coming into the small town, do you tread lightly?

He said, I never tread. I tread towards the truth, right? Yes, yes, yes. yeah. Here we go.

right? Obviously there's gona be family members that he's gona rub them the wrong way. There's gone to be different feelings about him in his personality, but you can't argue that he is a strong attorney. He knows what he's doing. Okay.

when we get back, Andrew is going to share a podcasts c exclusive clip from an interview with one of john o. kee's. Family members.

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Let's talk about the trial. I think that there are a number of big moments, obviously microprobe tor reading his messages understand about current read that was wild, was wild. I saw that coming.

I just think so unprofessional no um you know whether whether he did anything shady or not, I don't know. As far as meddling with the investigation, he denies obviously that he did anything wrong. However, I think we can all agree that those text messages were way off base.

Yeah and I think you know we do so many stories where there's there great place, workshop, police work, whatever IT may be, or errors or whatever, but this one just seems like such an unforced error. And that really kind of undermines the trust that you that flow through the rest of the investigation. absolutely.

And like I put IT in text messages, can I say, IT blows my mind in twenty twenty four. How many people don't know that lesson? The text messages take messages is what you search on your phone that can be found.

that will be found specially long for.

Speaking of that point, let's talk about that google search in becca's. Google search, how long to die in the cold?

How long to die in the cold? That was crazy .

was and I thought I was so interesting because, of course, up to a certain point in the story i'm watching and i'm like, oh, clearly like if you google that, like clearly are involved but then when her explanation came back and he said, no, Karen told me to google that like SHE, we google that together when we were found him in the cold at all. That yeah.

that kind of makes sense too right? Well and you know it's everyone thinks that it's a tech device, right? He doesn't get things wrong.

But like I can tell you this, I stop my really old hot mail account from like nineteen and ninety like I just a so work IT works okay, IT works, but IT has the wrong time on IT. Like, I seat, the time is wrong. And so that makes me think like IT could happen. But IT certainly added an interesting twist to the story.

where is Michael proctor now?

He has been suspended without pay.

No, I wonder, just from covering a trial, you talk about how long these trials are. Obviously, you are invested in IT. Our producers are invested in IT. And you think, okay, it's building, building, building to something and then there's a hang jury and it's a mistier. What is that like in that moment when you just kind of get that and it's all over the .

resolution because yeah like everyone's on pins and needles and then oh, you know it's just deflated, right, like immediately and it's bad for the family. It's sort of like in some way the defendants can see IT is like a mini Victory that they weren't found guilty. But then it's you know, they're still there, the dark cloud hanging over their head.

It's hard on everyone and then the prosecution has to make the decision to we do this all over again. It's costly. IT takes a lot of time. You put the family through IT all over again. So those are really tRicky, I think, for all involved.

I do want to talk about her victim, john okey. This episode did a really, really good job of really kind of bringing him out, because there was so much a interest in this trial. No, some could argue that he kind of got lost in the shuttle. And I think that watching your episode, we got a chance to learn who he was. I mean, watching him to puma about you spoke with his family member, bath, but yeah, also a childhood best friend.

Yeah, for me, sort of all I needed to know about jono key was he's a bachelor boston police officer living in the city. He loses his sister, loses his brother in law in a very short time frame. And what does he do? He gives up his city life, moves into the house, his sister's house, and raises his niece.

And phew, that just says so much about someone's character. I mean, wow, right. IT was so striking.

And then to see how much they clearly cared about him and how much he cared about them. I mean, I think that was just A A beautiful thing.

Those poor children to, by the way, I mean, to lose their parents and then him. I mean, can you imagine how many times does that have to happen? Heartbreaking is absolutely such a wonderful .

family .

and that helps a lot that they're surrounded by love and people who understand, you know, they are grief and how heart this is and so that this silver lining is that they have so many people who love them. sure. Yeah.

but no, I thought you'd had a beautiful job or just telling us who john was and and showing us sit well, let's bring in some of that extra sound. We have a podcasting exclusive clip with Andrea's interview with bath, one of john o. Kee's family members. This was her first time speaking to the media since john's death.

Let's listen what something like us that's thinking, and that they think Karen did this. They think Karen.

when john over.

the only word that can come to mind is just complete shock. This is something you don't ever anticipate to think that this is, this is someone I know, know, I expect time with, you know, and the hardest st part is as well as that, you know, john y died on saturday, and then Karen is arrested on tuesday night. And their court on wednesday is zero time to grieve, you know, even in the two and half years since january twenty nine, they still have to have time to grave because of everything that we've been through.

It's always the next thing and the next thing and the next thing exactly.

You know, the hardest thing as well is that there is media there. And I understand that, you know, he's the boston soft er and again, a big story in the news, but more so l than a bus police officer. He was a son, a brother, an apple, a friend.

I could feel the pain in her voice. I mean, I really could. And I think it's almost kind of like a two pronged thing is kind of SHE laid out. One, it's hard enough to lose a loved one just period, but than two, when you add in the added layer of this story, almost kind of taking a life of its own and becoming something that's about not necessarily you know their family member not necessarily about john like but there are so many other layers to IT I could see how that could .

be doubly painful. Yeah we're so grateful. Um the best did the show. The family has been very quiet, done very few interviews. And so for her to to come on and be so well spoken and to bring john to life to really they know Better than thank you .

so much for talking date line with me. We had a lot to talk about anda, and we sure did. After the break, i'm going to be joined by date line producer sumption to answer viewer and listen questions about the show from social media.

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Okay, welcome back. I here with date line producer susie son, who's join me today to answer some of your social media questions about this episode. So thank you so much for being here. So glad to talk to you.

It's a pleasure.

okay. So this first one is a little unusual because it's not from a viewer. So friday is, you know, a member of that night story teen post, extra information about the episode from the ad deadline N B C P R O D N B C producer account and one of the very first post on the producer accounts sent during the show was a shout out to you.

Huge cut to arta atis producer sue. Since several only ten media seats in the courtroom, SHE was outside of north county y superior court every single day in line at one I am for weeks to ensure that dateline would have a spot inside to do our reporting. So again, could not see you because that's not easy.

Well, now IT wasn't easy. blame. But as you know, you get into a routine, right?

I mean, first of all, I wouldn't be doing this job if I didn't want do the best thing I could, right? So i'm competitive of ten seats. I'm gonna be one of those ten seats.

But know this was not planned. IT was situation where the courtroom was changed just a few weeks before the trial, going from a very large one to a smaller one. The process was like nothing i've ever experienced.

But that was my question all along. Is that with all of the intense interest in this, why such a small courtroom?

Well, let me tell you what. Why exactly the the reasons for the small courtroom, the defense from emotion a few weeks before the trial was due to start saying, had you this, at least half of the jurors cannot see the face of the witness if the witness sits in the stand in the big courtroom and the event that we can have that so the judge deliberated and decided that, well, we've got to move to another courtroom in the only one they had free, there was a smaller one.

That's why I happened. Wow, that's fascinating. Um mary Brown, mary Brown atl one ask the question, which is an interesting one he says was the bar suit for over serving referring to the two bars where Karen read in geno key went on the .

night of his death good question. The OK family has filed them a wrongful death loss IT they've see the two bars um the carron john went to that night and they alleged that the bars negligently served an intoxicated person. Now Karen told us in her interview that he did not feel, as Dennis put at legalist at all.

He felt fine. Yes, she's had drinks, but he felt fine. We learned in the course of the trial, of course, from the prosecutors, who said that they had evidence showing SHE consumed nine alcohol of drinks, but Karen told SHE SHE felt fine. And another question .

that I think a lot of people ask this is from Sandy bright, calvin. And then they asked, why not just go up to the door?

Another good question, actually, because people going to really passing out the important details here, right? Karen did tell us that SHE waited in the car for a couple of reasons. One, SHE didn't know these people well.

He said, these were people, john you, so, you know, he asked him to go in and take a can see, are they really welcome here? Because he told us when they pull up to the house, SHE called, that was kind of dark. But so her inclination was not to go in, because these were not people SHE felt one hundred percent comfortable with.

very interesting. Okay, this next one is from amy and SHE asks. And this is something that brings in those messages, the text messages that we heard on the stands from Michael proctor as a woman and a mother straight discussed, and concern that there is a cultural issue of massage. I, within the ranks of the massachusetts police.

I mean, I can't tell you how how shocked everybody in the courtroom. M was journalists, everyone, when these text messages regret out, I can't speak obviously to the culture in the massachuset police, but I can say that when those stories came out about what he had tested, even the governor was talking about IT saying, you know, this is totally inappropriate. This is wrong.

I do have to emphasize, this was on his personal cell. IT doesn't excuse what he said in any way, but these war text messages that he didn't think whatever see the light of day a in one chain was with old friends of his, and another text chain included actually his supervisor. But again, i'm not going to comment on IT because when we try to talk to the massacres to state police, which we did on a number of occasions, they declined to speak to us. So I guess we can only judge their reaction by the fact that microprobe a was suspended as as soon as the mister a was declared term term.

Okay, let me take you to another question. Um I love this comment from Keith or holle on facebook. Key says I enjoys the team reporting of Andrew accounting and denis Murphy together.

Well done. I had to say I agree with that. I love having some dinner in there. And Andrea, that was something, I mean, we never see that. But IT was really like a very fancy too for one special.

IT was a terrific team effort. As you know, any date line story is a team effort, right? But it's because of we started so long ago, we started in march twenty twenty three with a big long sit down for hours and hours interview with Karen read and then of course um Andrea took over as the trial was starting and andry just dove into IT. So yeah IT was quite something to see, the two them together.

and we loved to too. And then this one from laun kati on facebook, date line. This needs a part to.

This story has so many layers. So of course we know that there is more to come. Talk to us about your next step reporting this case and how are you getting ready for the .

retrial if there is so much to do? First of all, the day for the retrial has been SAT a general twenty seventh twenty twenty five. There's been a new prosecutor who's been assigned to oversee the case assist in da hank burnin, and he's already making moves. He's let us know that he wants to interview, for instance, cards, dad. He also has filed with the court to get another examination of the electronics of curran's car.

He thinks that very important aspects may have missed, but very importantly, another aspect of IT that we're following closely as that the defense heard they say from five jurors after the mistral was declared, and these five jars told the defence, look, the jurors were unanimous ous on two other charges, one of the most significantly being murder. Two murder in the second degree were unanimous. Ly agree that Karen reed was not guilty on those two charges at the defense, filed motions saying think those two charges should be thrown out.

The defense made that argument before the judge. The prosecution argued against IT, and the judge denied the defense motion. So IT has now gone to the supreme court, masseuses, which is known as a supreme judicial court.

Oral arguments from both sides are gonna made before the S. J. C. Next month, you will see what happens. That's one of the things that could possibly delay a retrial starting in january. So what we can see what happens there.

we are going to be watching, and we know that our viewers will be watching too. I'm obviously, i'm a date line new by and I think that one of my favorite parts about this and just getting too dive and completely is talking to the viewers, I mean, hearing these social media comments and just knowing that every friday night there's a whole community that comes together has been fantastic and they're really kept on to.

yeah, you're right. We love that communities and that kind of meeting place on social media every friday night.

absolutely. It's a special place to be. We love IT. Alright, so thank you so much. I really appreciated talking date line with you.

Thanks, playing and welcome to date line. We are so happy to have you.

Thank you, sue. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here well that are talking deadline for this week.

And remember, if you have any questions for us about stories or about date line, you can always reach us twenty four, seven on social media at date line. N, B, C. Also be sure to check out keeps new deadline original podcast. The man in the black mask is the story of a rising Young director shooting a frightening film about a serial killer in a hockey mask, but when a man goes missing near the set, a real life horror story on the first three episodes available right now, wherever you get your podcasts, episode four drops on thursday, which is the same day that date line premium subscribers can binge the full series ad free. Again, thanks so much for listening, and we'll see you friday's on date line on abc.

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