cover of episode After the Halloween Party

After the Halloween Party

2024/11/5
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Dateline NBC

Key Insights

Why did Karen Swift feel out of place at the Halloween party?

She felt like a third wheel as she was the plus one of another couple and wasn't having a good time.

Why did Karen Swift leave the Halloween party early?

She called her friend Jenny Green, expressing she didn't want to be there and wanted to leave.

What was the immediate reaction of the community when Karen Swift went missing?

Everyone pointed fingers at David Swift, her husband, as the primary suspect.

Why did the investigators initially suspect David Swift?

He had a history of ups and downs in his marriage with Karen and had recently injured his knee, which made him a convenient suspect.

What was the turning point in the investigation that led to David Swift's arrest?

Investigators found a burn barrel on the Swift property containing a barbell, which they believed could be the murder weapon.

Why did the community of Dyersburg become suspicious of David Swift?

Rumors and accusations spread quickly, fueled by stories of public behavior and allegations of infidelity.

What role did Heather Coon play in the investigation?

She was a private investigator who brought new theories and evidence to light, stirring up the community and causing a media frenzy.

Why did the prosecution believe David Swift was the murderer?

They argued he had motive due to his controlling nature and the breakdown of his marriage with Karen, as well as opportunity as he was the only adult in the house when Karen went missing.

What was the defense's main argument in the trial?

They claimed there was no physical evidence linking David to the crime and that his bad knee made it impossible for him to have committed the murder.

What was the outcome of the first trial?

The jury could not reach a unanimous decision, resulting in a hung jury and a mistrial.

Chapters

The episode begins with the disappearance of Karen Swift after a Halloween party, setting the stage for a mystery that unfolds over the next decade.
  • Karen Swift vanishes after a Halloween party.
  • Her car is found abandoned with a flat tire.
  • David Swift becomes the prime suspect.

Shownotes Transcript

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tonight on date line that when .

really said IT mom was going to be here anymore and i'm obvious ly come to my home.

Horrific, your friend is missing all at you is that she'd gone to a halloween party the night before .

David sway of reported. I found a car once out of the road.

Everybody was point fingers at David.

He came in all reaches and said he had a ne injure.

And what he couldn't .

have done this, I just don't think he could.

I came in and I start up behind its nest. There is a huge swing community here. People involved turns and pretty high positions.

SHE came right out and said, your family was responsible. Yeah, crazy.

I remember feeling very emotional. I'm having to testify. I'm sorry, sorry. That is very heartbreaking.

This just not fair that she's not here. I want.

Just as for her, a mother vanishes just before halloween, the chilling case that still haunting detectives unless your hold, and this is deadline.

Here's Keith Morris with after the halloween party. There must have been a little through in the air that autumn night and dies very tennessee.

That ring is a very small town, also really good to keep in secrets.

IT was october twenty nine and two thousand and eleven, two nights to halloween, when they gathered to celebrate in their costumes and their masks to hide their secrets, perhaps, but certainly to make a new one, the darkest secret of them all.

I would say there's probably couple hundred .

people there. IT was a huge hoo of gathered for a halloween party, Jason increases, and locally prominent lawyer and judge was one of the host.

Where wasn't IT was at the farms, which is a country club band, dsb g. And almost everyone was in costume.

including a woman named Karen swift, kris matic, Karen, life of the party. Usually, what was he wearing?

He was wearing a black skirt with tights. And then he had on kind like a martigny ask, you didn't win the best costume .

of the night SHE didn't that much fun either? Wasn't the Karen who loved to sing and dance? SHE was the plus one of another couple and felt like a third wheel. So SHE called her friend Jenny Green.

SHE just said he wasn't having a good time. And I told her to go set to the bar and I said that just get your drink and SHE said, anny, I just I just don't want to be here.

But Karen stuck IT out. IT was late when you left the party with a couple hood, taken her bill and Kathy bona. They stopped a mcDonald for some fries.

And then they went to the bonus house where Karen planned to spend the night SHE would rejoin her own family in the morning. But after midnight, Karen got a call from her nine year old doctor. Actually, like.

I was out a friend's house and I went to come a home.

You were eat to sleep over. And they were like three girls there, and they were kind of making you feel like the one left out, right?

Yes, I feels .

crappy.

Doesn't ant IT does.

So mom, Karen, wish, in the only third you called your mom that, ah, so what happened?

Should IT come pick me up? And we went home.

David swift stayed up to make sure his wife and daughter got home safely, which they did after two A M. David went to bed in one room, well, actually fell a sleep with her mom in another. But he remembers waking up in a different room. What happened when you woke .

up in the morning? When I woke up that morning, he was a slow morning .

IT wouldn't be slow for long. David and the girls woke up around ten A M, but Karen wasn't there. And then a neighbor told David, the chee saw parents car less than half a mile from the swift home.

One of the tires was completely flat, and there was no sign of Karen. Did you understand then that something have happened? Your .

mom, that this and win first thought was, oh, you know, SHE called somebody else to help her, or, you know, a number of things. That wasn't my first time.

Karen didn't answer several texts and calls that morning. So David and currents friends, the bonus called the dire county share of office. Terry o cried, is chief investigator one of your deputies won't have a look at the car.

right? Yes, I know there was maraca clothing and this personal items that was inside the al.

One of the things that the that he noted was that the seem to be pushed back to a position where told man like himself would not have to move IT get inside and he figured he would have had a father up SHE.

I had IT further because he was not as tall as that, so he did say the seat had been moved to .

the rear that afternoon. Current friend Jenny was at home in lexington, tennessee when he got a call.

Bill bonner called my house and likes inten and um asked me if I seem care and he said, we seem to misplace her and I thought you misplace her and then IT wasn't pretty. Five minutes later, the relaxing time police department knocked on our door and said, is current here? We've had word that he might be hiding in your house. And I said, no .

hiding. Why would a mother of four be hiding? Good question. One of many to come SHE just disappears that nobody has any idea. What happened to IT was a very strange missing person's case. There would be an age of rumors.

mr. Travel fast sometimes in our country.

and accusations these people have got a paper at the laws i've told about my family and stories of lude, all two public behavior.

There is a huge swing community here. There are people involved in some pretty high positions in this town.

Strange bed .

helps you could .

say that so much drama, yet all was cured. A long and hard search for Karen and the truth.

Halloween night twenty eleven, when he came time to trick or treat, Karen swift was missing, having been seen for more than twenty four hours, anxiety growing all day for currents friend Robin alert.

I ended up taking the girl's trick or treat that night, and David brought them over, but that was difficult. The girl's consistently asking, you know, where's their mom?

Yes.

and I just had, honey, you'll be here when he gets here.

Well, his kids went trick or treating. David told Robin. He keep driving around looking for his wife. Did he seemed .

terribly destroy? He did. I could tell by the look in his, he was physically looked just a beaten, and then emotionally as well.

What is strange like that? Most of them.

I think, that I was charted to just give us a sense of Normal alca. Halloy is my least favorite holiday now.

not surprised. IT seemed helpful to put on a candlelight visual, so that's what they did. And current son preston went before TV gammer's with an emotional appeal. If anyone has any information about her, please, please let us know. We wanna know she's okay.

And I love you more.

Angey gl, her became friends with current when the switch slide in arkansas and was desperate to do something.

We came up with an idea that, hey, what if we rounded up all of our horse buddies and went ended a horse search over in darsn't .

g nearly twenty of them showed up on their horses. They rode from miles, scouring the woods around current house. None of that was easy, mostly because of the dense cuz zoo vines. The grow everywhere.

And diagnose was still up. And that keeps us from being able to see anything. Unfortunately, we couldn't find anything.

And of course, the sharp's investigators, we're learning everything they could about Karen swift.

This was beautiful mom, beautiful person, beautiful friend.

Karen was a stay at home mom who didn't really care much for staying at home.

SHE always was ready to go and do fishing and rotten for willers and taking the kids to the water parks we want to have Carry OK night .

I am SHE was the .

most fun up for anything.

including all kinds of mischief. SHE even joined her kids with a supply of toilet paper to do some decorating at Robin's house. A few days before halloween.

SHE called me and said, the girls want to do something fine. And I thought IT would be fine to COO and roll your .

house so you give him to over the trees.

That's correct, yes. And we had a good laugh about that.

My, my sister both were equally attached to her hit. But I was their first girl. I was all I wanted.

David had a good job as a manager in a factories that made gas pipelines, shared a deep sense of faith with Karen and was devoted to his children.

He was a good dad. He loved his kids very, very much and had good relationships with him.

Garen told friends how much he wanted her kids to live in a happy home, something he said he didn't have growing up.

SHE said, all I want is a White house and a White pick at fence and to go to church. That's all I want.

But perfect lives and White picket senses are often more ideal than real.

David had an affair, and IT created so much havoc in their marriage. A little while later, karren found out that David actually had a sun from that affair.

Havoc was the least of IT. They got a divorce, but they reconcile and remarried together under one roof, again, with two sons from their first marriage, and then asked, he was born, followed by another daughter, and then more infidelity. This time, IT was Karen, who had an affair. The swift marriage had become very messy.

That probably why they move from our console is to get out of that situation, maybe to have a new beginning.

But their fresh start wasn't easy. Robin watched first, and as the relationship started the shower again.

SHE told him in front of me, I don't love you anymore, David. I don't .

wanna be married. Big happened there.

Something big happened. I never thought David get upset when SHE told him I don't love you anymore. He just said, yes, you don't care. Yes, you do. Well, she's already divorced me once i'll get her back .

is what .

I kind of seem like to me.

When the case landed on share of jeff boxes desk, he knew exactly what he wanted to do.

Most cases were life comes up with the most likely .

suspect is look at the husband first. That's police work. One or won IT was .

time to talk to David swift. Come home, you.

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IT didn't take a degree in criminology to suspect that something very bad that happened to current with poor that investigation had Better talk to her husband David. And the day after Karen disappeared, David showed right up on crashes, even if you have to see there.

Do you know well, I had a na surgery.

David said he wanted to help anyway, he could.

He opened up to investigators about his relationship with Karen and they're four kids and they're twenty .

two year history of upson downs having .

issues and and asked .

that person's why he told .

them about ve the divorce followed by reconciliation six .

years and here in head and fair and now after .

their fresh start and dies burg, Karen was pulling away .

I get over and care Better and I just .

think she's last OK. You should know perhaps that's why current did what you did just a few weeks earlier file for.

Divorce was hurt.

He thought they could work through IT like they had in the past. They were sleeping in separate bedrooms, but David said things between them.

we're amicable meanes. We've been still trying to be there. No kids the morning .

before he disappeared, said David SHE was helping out at a habitat for humanity house he went to see.

her.

And then later, when Karen got home, he said he told him he was going out with her french Cathy.

A bill, the party, he said, nann's one heaths.

David said Karen had been going out a lot lately. The next time he heard from Karen, he said.

was well after midnight. He said he was .

a little worried about that. He knew SHE. Was there any .

kind of argument? Are anything I just obvious, very brave, like question, caring about their and I said, you know, you can dry out out action and that was all the conversation was, you know, since I realized that actually went back to.

And when he woke up the next morning, Karen was gone here.

I don't know, rather than when he appears that he had a fly, I don't know. SHE called someone or SHE started walking.

This is also consideration. What if SHE has left with somebody?

How you can take that? I used water. Come, come home to the, you'll be a mother SHE don't want to be a why, you know, that's her decision. I can accept that you know, that's not something I want or something maybe.

好像 so maybe he was off the new love interest, or maybe she'd been picked up by a stranger. And then David had one more idea.

Has anyone talked with. The shooter.

john hog shooter, the swifts neighbor.

Over all bases, covering all the basis also meant searching the swift home.

2、 村口 not .

long after that conversation, deputies arrived to the swift home. They went from room to room .

to room and looked at every little thing to find inside the house.

They also searched David's .

car in the truck of the car on a knee. The spare attire in the very bottom of the drunk was a divorce papers that kind of add to have divorce papers here in the way. What are you had him for one?

And then they got to the backyard.

There were bleach bottles in the backyard, empty, please.

bottles that definitely got investigators attention. This swift's place was in the country where one property tended to mild into the next one. So investors moved out, poking around, and eventually something caught her eye, something they've been looking for since day one. Current cell phone.

when you think about the distance from somewhere less and five hundred and some feet from the drive from Carry to drive to where that phone was found, IT just didn't.

At a and nearby was another one, a second phone? no. What other could that mean? The mystery of what happened to current swift was becoming bigger than anything this town had seen.

And in the absence of answers, all kinds of rumors fill the void. Story started coming out. She's married and she's hanging out with swinger. So that was shocking.

IT was, to say the least, a surprise way, often the grass at the edge of men, neighbor's property, Karen swift cell phone lying there with IT, another phone, her phone, someone else's phone, who knew they weren't just drop there either.

The phones worst, alt and damaged. And so but I did admit some data that morning, the findings .

of which would become very important to investigators. But what was extra curious with that odd location?

They were near the property, but not on how to use property to sail.

That is john hog shooter, the swept the neighbor, the man David had told investigators about. Investigators, i'd already heard on alarming story, but how hog shooter had poisoned the swift's family dog, that was just weeks before Karen disappeared, which made him a person of interest, to say the least. Did you recommend of the station to talk to?

Yes, we did.

What did you tell you? He told us that he didn't have any connection.

Well, he said he got tired of pop and on his property.

So hog shooter put poison in his yard. One of the neighbors dogs died because of IT, and the swift dog became severely ill. If to get a search talk shooters home and his cars didn't find anything.

But by then of dies, burg seemed to know hug shooter was being looked at, and he felt the need to defend themselves. My family standing behind me, and we're just going to trust in god that this is going be over with and she's going to come home safely. That's what everyone said they wanted. The local news was all over the story. Spoke to the friend Karen, went to the costume party with Cathy bona.

We're just very concerned about a cat right now. We want our .

safe return investigation. We're talking to everyone eager to learn all they could that helps to know you're missing person. And David IT.

turned out, had shared a lot, started changing and doing this kinds .

of stuff, he said, was worrying him like how Karen had recently started leaving the house at all hours of the night, said David.

He was about nine, started one out, and care was sneaking out of the door can go on.

he said, most of what happened with currents friends, the bonus, they had a hot tub, and like the host parties. And one .

night you have a town that he was totally naked.

naked and in a bed with cash.

Make you happy.

Current friend Robin reported the same sort of thing, different night. What did you see?

Karen, just kind of out of control, not herself. SHE had had a drinker to, and got a little crazy won't to get into a hard tub. And eventually, with no closer, I saw her get up out of the hot tub, and SHE kind of stumbled her way into the house.

Still no close, no boy. So I needed .

to walk in and check and just make sure that he was OK.

What would you?

I witnessed a mr. Bona standing over her and I resist, what are you doing? And I grew at how to cover her up, please and I said, go at her husband.

I think he was .

just kind of shark too, and probably a little embarrassed, to be honest. But hadn't witnesses say anything to her other than just get, let's get her home.

So what exactly was going on with Karen and a good friends cafe and bill bonner? Rumors flew through town, of course, and into the years of local reporters like janus breach of nbc affiliate wmc. In meters, story started coming out about how he was hanging around with a really wild crowd.

The rumors, which the bonus deny, were that they were swingers and that Karen was part of their group. She's married and she's hanging out with swinger. So that was shocking, shocking.

Or maybe not in dire berg, that kind of thing was, well warned gossip. There was even a name for the local swingers club that supposedly Operate IT here years ago, the pink poodles. What can you tell me about the, or is the pink poodle club?

What happened was, years ago there was a paint pootle club, allegedly, and dies. Burg pete photo club really is like just a cna name for swingers. Now is .

incase. One of the host of that halloween party has lived in dis burn for more than two decades.

I think that in almost any time there are some facial swingers. I would not say that direction g is out of the way.

Karez friend Jenny didn't like all the swing rumors anyway. Wasn't Karen on her way to a divorce? Jane remembers being happy that Karen seem to be finding herself even as her marriage fell apart.

SHE was also Karen, and not just a mom and not just a wife. SHE was also Carry. And I think SHE got to know herself, and I think SHE liked her that he should.

But her family was struggling with this new Karen push out at night a lot, eventually.

eventually. Yes, I remember nights me big and crying her not to leave. I don't want her to go out and just wanting her to stay home with us.

And SHE would go anyone.

SHE would. And I was not like her at all.

but to be gone for days without word to anyone that made no sense to nine year old, actually.

I thought, very confused. I ve thought, you know, I will just come home later. But the reality started setting in of, okay, nobody. He's started from her. And and that's what I began to worry .

somewhere in her child's mind. SHE knew they all did the awful truth they would be forced to face.

He just looked at me and he said, Jenny. The founder.

With each passing day and no news of Karen, her family and friends were enveloped by the fear of exactly what her absence meant.

I was scared because I knew the type of mother SHE was, I know, even though he had her priorities kind of made stuff at that time, there would be nothing that would keep her from taking her girls trick .

or treat before they knew what I was thanksgiving.

I crowd for hours thinking, what if Karen is out there? SHE is no way to communicate to anybody on where he is. At december.

winter descended damp and cold outside around dassn't g. The cuzzi vine shrunk to wait for spring. And then six weeks after IT began, the search was finally over category. Walking the grounds of a nearby cemetery saw something under a steel cross in a patch of weather ing cuts you to time.

He came miss in october. We've ever have cuzzi vans. And when they search the tenth as IT got coder, that kdd.

zo. Hit subsided. So IT made her body visible.

SHE, there was his owner. Aren't clothes here we talking about in fall of the year in october? sure. So you wouldn't think to mother walk the house like that.

Jennie husband gave her the news.

I could not see him on his face. He just looked at me and he said, Jenny.

They found her. So that was a .

tough night.

Do you remember hearing when they found your mother's body?

I don't remember the exact day I like hearing about IT. Um and I don't think that's how is described to me. I think that was that one was going to be here anymore, and i'm .

asn't come .

my cold. And that's win. Really said in that, that was my new life.

At that age. How hard does I hit?

A is for you? hard. Because, you know, at that age, you want to hit all. Did IT already excited to turn, you know, you're about to be the big kids in the school again before you go off to middle score. And I knew that I wanted her there for of that.

And the whole family, was everybody coping you?

I just try always say, strong for us.

Investigators processed the scene. Current remains were sent for an autopsy. What were their findings?

But there was born force trauma.

Any evidence? Subsection ual assault? No, no. So whoever left her there left there and are underwear.

And that was that this.

that IT was murder was obvious, and the list of people they needed to speak to was long. They had already spoken with the couple Karen had been spending so much time with lately. Did you ask the bonus to come in for an interview?

They did come in for interview, and they gave an interview, bill and Cathy.

investigators learned something interesting. That second phone found near hog shoe displayed that was kind, and IT was given to her by the bone. Is SHE got .

another phone to get her through the years later. Talk to her torney. Whoever he needed to have a private conversation, if he needed to.

detective discovered Karen was using IT to talk to a man he met at a concert who said he wanted to get to know her Better. David seem to be concerned that he was having .

multiple affairs. That's true. Well, that's what he say in and me, here's the thing. We wouldn't here to investigate her private life. We were here to investigate a homicide.

For one thing, police didn't think the bonus is had anything to do with currents of disappearance. And police knew all about the rumors in town.

And they were found that to be true, that he participated ID in in a big club. People do a lot of things in a person lives. But carreon was murdered and he went because of the hot tub.

No, their investigation was not focusing in on what Karen was doing outside her marriage, but rather on the man he was married to.

Everything that we saw and discovered points straight red hill.

In their early views with David, they thought they all guy, far more concerned with trash talking his wife than finding her. There were a stories he told about what career and her friends were doing. And he went on and all about how much he had started drinking recently.

I have to go they on me. And so I was always concerned, worried about SHE was some drunk ones that he was passed on, that he would not .

focus on only anything other than her behavior was just a sign to me. This guy is hiding something these cover know of .

something like that business about current secret phone.

stern phone.

He told us that he didn't know he had another phone, and we found the number programmed in his blackberry phone, his word phone.

so he did .

know they have.

They caught in a lie, maybe, but more importantly, investigators were zero in on the motive. David, angry over the divorce, watching Karen slipped further away. But that certainly wasn't enough for an arrest. They've got a lawyer and stop talking. And then the investigation seemed to just stall.

IT was so frustrating year after year, and there was still not an arrest made.

actually went through her adolescence, motherless.

I think the order I got, the more that I wanted to know what happened. And then I got to an age where I realize that I would never know what happened.

But the question about what happened to her mother was far from over. Someone knew was coming to dies burg, and so was a whole new theory of the case.

I came in and I start up behn its nest.

Oh, boy.

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Wine improves with age murder investigations generally, not the .

general public might think IT a cold case, but for us, we're looking everyday for that. That one thing that we need to prosecute, that one nail that we can put in IT.

David swift didn't hang around to see what chair of box would do. He left dirs burg, eventually settled in alabama with his daughters. And that's where he found a new partner on the dating side, Christian ingle.

Kelly s. man. Four years after the murder, David swift was a married man again. Were you okay with the idea that he would marry another woman?

Obvious he wasn't. Mom, I want my dad to be happy.

How involved with your dad in your life during those years in alabama?

He is very involved, I mean, is very, very supportive .

and very encouraging. His rock, this story was no longer making headlines in dios burb, but in twenty eighteen, seven years after some unknown person bludgeon Karen swift to death, a disrupter aimed down disrupter with a capital d and her name was heather coin.

IT was a cold case. IT wasn't going anywhere either.

Study criminal justice work, is a paralegal, and in twenty sixteen, became a licensed private investigator .

recording in progress.

SHE shares a lot about her cases online. And on the podcast SHE hosts called the justice warriors.

You will stand for what is right, because we are the justice warriors.

A crime bloggers friend told her her about the swift case, and he started making calls and then heard a lot of those solutions, rumors about dire berry dies.

Burg is a spicy place. I suppose you could say there is a huge swinger community here. There are people involved in some pretty high positions in this town.

Strange bed trailers.

you could say that.

And when he came to town, SHE did not tip to SHE showed up with a big team and a friend recording every move as SHE chased down leads and knocked on doors and did IT interviews.

The people needed somebody to come in from the outside and to be their waste .

who hire her, to be that voice who paid her. No one said his. Her first thought about David with was, why hadn't he been .

arrested initially? We believe that David swifts IT, I mean, that's what makes sense.

So he called him directly and he agreed to talk.

We've done anything from my wife and people just don't understand, and they just been ready state.

He confided in me and I saw a side of him that I just I don't believe that he killed his wife. I believe he loved her.

Yeah, sometimes love leads to things.

as you know, I understand, but I just don't feel that.

So have they turned to all those stories about current's behavior in the last months of her life? What did SHE find rooting around in the gossip? A story about an affair, alleged affair, that is, and a man named mentally good term as .

a close friend of cairns told me that he knew about the affair between bently and Karen SHE discovered .

that the play's wife dinner was at that country club halloween party. And there were rumors SHE had an argument with Karen, and that LED speculation by heather that there must have been a messy love triangle, which in turn somehow must have LED the current murder. There was an education in your mind.

allegedly. There was, there are some things that I was never able to get a first hand account of, and that was one .

of them looking in the bi a would end up being the most consequential decision of her career because IT LED her to denis father darell sells a wealthy business man. Learning all about him became heath's obsession.

I went in the direction that the leads took me, and they just kept pouring in.

One of the leads came from witnesses who said they saw darl cells poking around the crime scene with a metal detector before kranz body was discovered. Either recorded interviews with the witnesses saying, this old man and he had a meta detector. IT was weird, you know.

why was he there before the body was found?

Either went from curious to off the charge suspicious. And then he got her hands on a recording of an anonymous phone call made to the share of office, yeah, share shops IT is you tell enough .

to Carry swith five point three miles with very to share Grace.

The caller planned to know the location of curran's body when he was still in. This same person either believed the voice on that call was darl cells. Take a look.

Why is he calling and leading them to the body?

Soon here there was convinced their own cells was engaged in a huge cover up to protect his own family.

The theory that I came up with for my investigation is that deal was using his money and his power to divert the investigation and keep IT off of his daughter and sn and law yeah said.

what is just a theory but that didn't stop either. He continued doing podcast about the cells.

Dina does come from a very prominent family and her father is less to save very well, politically connected.

I'm pretty soon people and dirs very knew all .

about heath's theories of our investigation is concerned um we have very different suspects than the enforcement. I came in and I start up behind its nest.

She's stir up a hornets ness alright. And when you do that, you'd Better be ready to get stone. You're accused of repeatedly ly threatening other corn and including threatening to crush her go.

Had they go and thought he'd found the key to unlock the current swift .

murder mystery, there was lead after lead after lead, the pointed in the direction of the cells family.

Here there's theory about the murder started with the tip alleging that Karen swift was having an affair with deal cells. Sun and law either tried to get gently and his wife dinner to talk to IT they wouldn't do IT the dinner did talk to us. Hello coin, that the dental was having an affair with Karen fast.

But what do you think of that? How did he react to that? Well, I hurt your feelings. You know that people are just going to talk lies about you and your family. Another of healer's lies, according to dinner, was that story about a supposed fight between her and Karen at a halloween party. IT just didn't happen, I mean, at all I can say and do I can understand still how we got drugged into this.

It's just something ever made a lifetime movie for IT feels like told SHE didn't even know current wift people say lies and just divide things about us for no reason but what about those witnesses who said dina's father darell cells was poking around the crime scene with a medal detector? Ridiculous, said dina. I can barely see my dad picking up a week or so. He's not going to go do something like that. I'm not saying somebody wasn't up there, but i'd bet my life I wasn't my father having also fixed on that strange call to the share of office, directing them to curran's .

body and tell enough the currents with five point three miles west, very disher grave.

daro son daren has listen to IT more than once I wanted to do the boys analysis of that call on pursues his voice. You're going to find out that that is not him at all whatsoever either. Didn't have a proof IT was sales voice IT was just her opinion after listening to IT, the share of box knows their l cells and came to a different .

conclusion. We know it's not him now she's she's alleged in ideas. She's no proof and we don't believe it's .

so if you're an out of town vi poking around a dire berrie, you might want to think twice before picking a fight with darl cells the self made man who became one of the wealthy men in town. So let me tell you a nice ray drop out high school school cells was a barber who got into the fast food business in the one thousand nine hundred and seventies and built IT into a burger and fries empire worth millions.

Would you say that you are a kind of the archetypal american success story? Well, I think so. I had enough time to make myself for bring on my means.

And IT worked out .

good until heather started promoting an ugly new chapter to his american success story, so told us he has no idea what happened to current with. And anyone who says they saw him walking around the place where her body was found is either confused, relying, you were never anywhere near there with a middle detector and sort my part, my grants, but I never, I know how to Operate. One, when darell heard about the allegations he called, either gave a piece of his mind. You are spreading some.

you.

Like, you don't. Why about nothing? He be little s me.

He demeans me. He puts me down. It's okay. I don't care much for him either.

You are accused of repeatedly ly threatening other colon, including threatening to crush her kull a well, I think I said i'd liked to rub her nose on the concrete, and I still like to do that. Tell the truth about IT. Did you d always handle himself the best way? why? No, he did not.

But that his inner, i'm going to protect my family coming out. That is a fighter, is kind of an unfilled guy. Is me just a little? I don't know.

Maybe it's mean, maybe it's my maker, but I can get this off my mind. You know, these people have got a paper. The laws i've told about my family deal did try to make either coin pay.

He found the lawsuit, saying her entire theory of the case affair, the fight that somehow LED to a murder and cover up the cells family's influence of A W enforcement IT was all malicious and defamatory y and heather, he appeared before a grand jury, represent evidence that darl has threatened them, harassed one of them was arrested him. I got a phone off my turney. He said a, well, you've been and died.

Dell was charged with cyber stalking. So I had to go down there and sit there for this woman to binger print me. And IT was on the front page of newspaper next day. In the end, the lawsuit was settled out of cord. Each side agreed not to discourage the other and either conceived SHE had no first hand knowledge that the cells family was involved in current swift murder the cyber stocking charging against deal cells was dismissed which in hetherton book was just another example of the sales family getting favorable treatment. And die burg .

the man has more money than god, and the justice system is very influenced by money. The sales family also um contributes to the sheriff and in the D S. Political campaigns.

Fact, didn't you call this the sales family share of office?

Yes, I said you need to change the name of the directory share of office to the sells family share of office. Yes.

share of box is not conflating a name change other. Cohen has said all kinds of things about the department, essentially saying that deal cells controls you.

Yes, she's made many, many far statements. Nobody run us. And when you see her come and she's always trouble.

i'll keep going as long as I have to. They mess with the wrong pi.

Either coin does have her supporters in dieses g people who think he has uncovered the truth. It's fair to say share of box and the cells family are not among them. Why should we believe you and not them?

I have no reason to lie. I mean, what am I get now? This, I don't have a dog in this fight.

either kicked up a storm or, right, got everyone talking. What new secrets about curran's life would come to light?

SHE would vent to me. I lie SHE felt as if he was controlled.

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M S N B C films presents a new four part series from nbc new studios that exposes the injustices of wrongful conventions. The sing chronical first two episodes premiere saturday at nine P M. Turn on s nc.

With no one arrested for current swifts murder, the drama between private investigator heather coin and the sales family took center stage. Here there's theories about currents killer when viral in dirs work. At least .

she's from dire Spark, so she's not scared to people. She's not going to be intimidated by the whose who of dars Spark tennessee. And he was going to seek out the truth, whether a certain person like IT or night.

All of the talk even reached ashly, three hundred miles away in alabama.

I do think he has a lot of information.

Even though heth's podcast and internet posts were pointing away from her dad as a suspect actually didn't like how heather .

was Operating. I did talk to her a little bit over the years. I've cut that back significantly. I think that this is kind of her fifteen minutes of fame.

And well, either said he wasn't hired by asher's dad. Some of her information did come from David's family. I saying, this old man, and he had a metal of detector, ever reported talking to three people who said they'd seen their al cells at the crime scene.

One of them was Ashley's own brother. That whole business about dr. Cells, the metal detector. What did you make you all? Let's do.

I don't want to sit here and accused anyone of anything. I wasn't there to see that. That's my brothers story to tell. But I do think that he is weirdly obsessed and involved .

back and dies. Burg Robin alford heard the suspicions about David, and the possibility he may have snapped and done something to current did battle around in the back of her mind. But SHE could not imagine David as a killer .

and thought .

he ther's fresh take on the case was exactly what was needed. Did you change your point of view about what .

may have happened here? Well, SHE definitely gave me a lot to think about.

But whatever people felt about the heather darl sideshow IT did get people talking about current's case again. Danny goodmen took over as da of dire county. And twenty eighteen.

I think the that was here before me was looking for that smoking on the one piece of evidence that would just make the case of slam duck.

But that just didn't exist, apparently. And then two thousand twenty hit the thing .

that actually worked out well for us, even though there was something that was tragic for so many people, was copied. We had more free time than usual. So we decided that I would be a good time just to let's let's dig back into this case.

They dusted off thirty large bins, and for a year they poured over IT nine years worth of police reports and transcripts and evidence, not dimension all the series and allegations. Heather stir up.

There were a lot of rumors, and here the collin actually brought a lot of of information to me.

And when he wasn't sure either had given him everything, he went to a judge at a warrant to search your house and collected all of the research share done in the case.

We investigated everything we checked out in the allegation that was made.

And after they spoke to some of heather sources, goodman said, a pattern emerged.

Each witness that we were going to talk to would say, no, I didn't say that or no. That's not exactly how that was. This is what I said.

Heather stands by her information, but by the end of IT, goodmen said the evidence let him in back to the man show investigators had suspected all along. David swift, as you went through those thirty boxes that you find something that you felt was, you know, I opening was gone to change things.

We did not come across anything. That was just the one big thing that just aha moment. IT was more so of putting a postal together.

a big piece of which was motive, which David certainly seemed to have an abundance.

I think he saw that he was losing control because in the past he was able to control everything that Carry did everywhere he went. He controlled the money, and he saw that that was starting to slip away.

Godman saw Karen chasing a new life on the brink of freedom, and David refusing to let her go. Karen had turned out, had complained to her friends about IT.

SHE would vent to me. I like he felt as if SHE was controlled and always expected to let him know where she's at and what she's doing.

Maybe David just snapped that night after the halloween party, government reviewed David passion interviews against material they had gathered from his computer.

David made numerous statements. He went to bed and slip to the next morning at ten thirty when the children woke up. We know if that's not true because we could prove that there was an activity on his computer at three o'clock in the morning and after.

But if David killed Karen, he hit his track. Whe in a decade searching, they had never found any evidence of a crime at the swift home, and they never found a weapon that might have inflicted the deadly lows. So in twenty twenty two, eleven years after Karen was murdered, shares investigators decided to try once more.

They brought excavators and dug near the rear of the property. And there they unearth something, a burn barrel. And when they opened IT.

we found pears be a barr bail that was in that burn bio.

During an earlier search, they found a single bar bell on the swift zone, but he was missing his mate. So was this IT. Could this buried barbell be the murder weapon? Investigators set IT off for testing, but when the .

results came back, recovery of evidence still .

to investigators. IT begged the question.

why is that out there in the .

barn bail over the years, share of boxes kept in close contact with kari's mother, Carol SHE, was among the people who wanted to see David charged with the murder of her daughter.

SHE said, just tell me again, how come the case had been been edited? And I said, well, you know, miss her. The former da said that we had one shot at this case, one shot. And he said, well, he said I would do to tell much good man, what good is that shot if you never take IT?

What good? Indeed, the folks entries work were more than a little interested. And what would happen next? Every morning I get up, I think about this.

Who's going to be that? Who's going to rist IT. Wait and wait and wait.

As investigators, we're taking a fresh look at the current swifts. David's life and alabama seem to be falling apart. There was tension with the second wife, Kelly.

There were times where I begged him to leave her because of the way that he made comments about things there, and he wanted to try, always meant that relationship.

He tried and SHE left him anyway, right? Yes, David, second wife file for divorce SHE told us David prioritized kids over their marriage and that took a toll on their relationship. Back in tnc, D. A, goodman was quietly building his case, though investigators did pay David visit.

they came to see him and asked for his finger paint. He was at home at the time, I think he met them at city hall, I think, and willingly gave his fer parents and did what he needed to do and whatever they needed. He is very CoOperative.

And that was .

that 啥意思? In twenty .

twenty two, just a determined danny goodman was up for reelection and wonder, you know, his opponent decided to make an issue out of the fact that the biggest murder in town was still unsold. Under goodman's watch.

there was actually a disco turn's race for the other gas that he supports, swifts justice. So he didn't mention care by name, but he was a parent that he was trying to say that he would seek justice in the current wilf case.

Good then one reelection. And days later he decided IT was time to take a shot on the gar swift case.

So much time had passed that you start losing witnesses. And we had one of the investigators, that was the lead investigator who who died that period of time. We had few witnesses who had health issues, right? That was the concern.

On August eight, two thousand and twenty two, David was pulled over by police, the handcuff him to comment the custody. He was charged with first degree murder. How did you find out that your dad had been arrested?

I was at work, and I remember somebody coming to get me in saying that I said, mommy on the phone didn't know why SHE was calling at this point. I picked IT up and SHE let me know that he had been arrested. I knew that my sister was now home well, so I got in the korean when strain home. I was very just short, trying to figure out what we were gonna. Do you think .

there's any chance in the world that your dad killed your mom? Any chance at all? Just one little.

including of suspicion. I I four .

years, Robin hadn't been able to make up your mind about what happened .

to her friend. I thought you got premeditated ter. They've got something I don't know. One, when all these rumors are finally gonna put to rest.

current friend angie gallaher always believe David was the one responsible for the murder and held on to faith he'd be arrested.

I knew that share of box and his team were working on IT very diligently. Eventually the job would get done.

I imagine IT must been pretty good to hear that they had charged the husband, David, what I was. Yeah, IT has not been much fun for you in the last few years. He has been fun me for twelve years.

Every morning I get up, I think about this, what's gonna en a date to make this thing go away? Who's going to be in dad? Who's going and waiting and waiting and waiting. David could no longer afford a private attorney, so he was a sign of court appointed lawyer, then Daniel tailor.

There were a lot of documents, twenty thousand documents, from what we were told .

Taylor set out to acquit himself with the evidence. And what's stood out to him right away was David's bad knee. He had major surgery in April twenty eleven, and then reinjured about a week before halloween.

They indicated that IT was painful and that I would make IT difficult for him to move around. That didn't mean that he, he was absolutely paralyzed, but I did affect his ability to move and walk.

Robin, remember seeing David on halloween the day after Karen vanished.

He was on crutches at that time, so he was unable to walk up and down neighborhood like we were going to with the girl. So he drop them off and hilla .

murder his wife, dicer car, toss her phones, Carry her body and then dumped and clean up. Any evidence. David swifts was in no condition to do that, at least that's what his defensive tourney thought. And even though IT had taken over a decade, Taylor thought this was a rush to judgment. All that attention from podcasting, the media, the community, was just too much pressure on da goodman.

IT became an election year issue. No swift justice, talking about the swift case and criticizing, you know, the D. S. office. And I believe that danny, a gobin is a honor person. The purpose of bringing that up is to talk about if there's pressure to do something, pressure about doing something, about making a decision is IT the right decision?

Have their coin had been an advocate for David's innocence, but now some people blame to her .

for David arrest. I was told that IT seemed that that was what aroused them to go after David the way that they did IT was a cold case. And I think that because I was exposing some things that they didn't want exposed, I believe that they retaliated by pushing back on .

David's swift. The da denied that, of course. Instead, he got ready to tell his case to a jury, and maybe he had a good case.

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Thirteen years after Karen swift was killed, gossip and rumors were still swirling in dire county. So when David swiss murder child began in may of twenty twenty four, IT was moved to a different town state .

of tennessee versus David swiped entitled for first degree premeditated murder.

very first thing. Prosecutor goodmen warn the jury, this would not be some csi travancore.

This is not one of the cases where you're going to see positive DNA results. You are not going to see fingerprint analysis. We will, however, give you several pieces of a puzzle, and when we get through giving you all of those, you're going to see that complete picture of exact what happened to Carry swift.

Our plan was to show the jury that IT was impossible for anyone else to have committed this crime. No one else had the motive to do IT. No one else had the opportunity to do IT motive .

was a big focus for the prosecutor. They believe David was angry and controlling. When I came to current, her friend Kathy bona testified that David hounded Karen when the two women were out together.

There was one night we were hanging out in my porsche called twenty five .

times in what period of term.

thirty minutes.

He told the jury about another incident. After a day SHE spent shopping with Karen.

He yelled at her in the park and lot and like, slam ed the hand against the car window and was accusing her things that he was sneak IT around her line terms .

relationship with Kathy and her husband had been the subject of speculation for years. Cathy justified. There was nothing at all to that talk the prosecution about that night the David found Karen in her bed naked.

So we had gone out to dinner with some friends in the game. We came back home and couple .

of people got .

gotten in the hot to said, i'm tired. I'm going to go to bed. So I proceeded to go into the bedroom, put on my paja and get into the covers and go to sleep. SHE was again feeling a light headed, had a tower of drones, and lay down on the other .

side of the bid.

You were under the covers, I.

and was SHE under the covers with you.

He was not totally innocence, said, but David reaction was over the top.

He accused her of lots of things. Sleeping with me, being a horr, doing, being drug, lots of things was very angry.

Bill bona also justified. He said, Karen was their good friend. Nothing more.

Did you have a romantic relationship with me? swift?

And the night Robin saw him with current, he stumbled out of the hot tub. He testified he was just trying to help of her friends was coming from a ham. And as a way, let me get to your tell Jason increasing was also currents divorce lawyer and divorce the state content and David didn't want and couldn't. Before IT.

we were asking for her to add half that have has sold and third ha, half the equity. And IT came out where he would have to pay fourteen hundred and eight dollars. Promote in character.

prosecutors played David's interviews with police to show how he talked about his missing wife.

Two son had passed out on the port general envied other analogy in the forward.

David, they believe, wanted to give the impression that a drunk Karen most likely went out to meet someone in the debt of night, but the prosecution argued that just didn't happen. Sh'd returned from that halloween party. Remember water down her home assistance.

D. A. Tim box. SHE comes back home. It's too await prosecutors believe you won't write to bed and to sleep and detectors found a sleep IT on her bedside table.

The drug showed up on her autopsy report. I did argue the jar that he took something to sleep when he got home, went to bed, further proof SHE was sleeping. Prosecutors said both her phones were inactive in the hours after two A M. David said he was sleeping y too, but they had that evidence from his computer showing someone used IT around three A M so we know .

that he was awake at that time, and he was accessing photos of Karen, the leading photos of Karen.

So what happened in the swift home the night Karen was killed? Prosecutors had a theory, and IT had nothing to do with the buried barr bill. They said, David rage built to build and build until he decided to end his anguish and his marriage once caring, and actually were both asleep, they believe David came in and picked up ashly and Carry out to another room. And then .

we felt that David, who would somehow get, can sway into the garage. Once inside the garage, the defense stop caring on her head was such a baLance that IT caused her school. And he called charge of broken bone to enter her brain.

I followed the trial. The prosecutor said that David swift stopped Karen swifts head. And I was like that. Some new evidence i've never heard that the state described a premeditated violent murder, followed by a careful and thero cleanup and cover up.

Good man in box knew that offence was going to claim that David bad nee made IT impossible for him to have committed this crime. But they had an answer for that ready. He was very publicly .

hobble around on crutches and pretend to be injured. So people would think that he, there was no way that .

he could kill his wife. Yes, he had had surgery earlier that year, is IT. But the story about injuring IT, again, that was a lie. David's neighbor who let the swifts hay for a halloween hayride justify that dave .

seem fine to him, that we, David.

was he using crushes .

I never seen no catches, is on third figure, is at the prosecution that he started planning weeks before the murder.

We felt like that the knee injury was a part of the plane from the very beginning to show that IT was impossible. He could have committed this crab because he was injured and couldn't walk at the time.

So we see him on cruche in the police station. Just a ruse as just a costume is wearing.

There were times that he was using cruche, and then they were times that he was not. Sadly.

the state ended with what I felt was a strong as evidence, current phones, the ones they were found in that field. The state told the jury that current's secret phone was connected to the swift house wifi and someone called voice mail at nine fifty five A M. That's saturday morning. That's after Karen went missing.

We know there was only one adult in the swift home at nine fifty five in the morning.

And that adult was David swift, which meant depressing routers. David must have been the one to dump the phones.

We felt that that was gonna the the nail in the coffin IT was something that we felt like there was no other explanation of how that could have happened.

But of course, that wasn't the whole story. David swift had the important defenders, including those who loved him and Karen the most.

I'm having to testify for my dad's, in a sense, about my dad mother.

Why a grizly story the state told the .

defense stunt carn on her head was such a that cater school in that came .

from the medical examine but at the exact time prosecutor goodman was describing into the jury, the m emailed to say he had changed his mind.

We've received an email at that time saying that's not what he thought was was gonna the calls of death?

Wow, i've heard of awkward timing, but that takes the cake.

IT was very difficult, and we were .

concerned so that rupal theory was just that a theory prosecutor .

is saying to you that he took her out the garage and stopped her head. There's no physical evidence in the garage. There's no blood in the garage.

The defense also argued that the states claim about current phone being used inside the swift home after he disappeared is based on unreliable evidence. In fact, no proof became a theme of Daniel Taylor's defense.

There was no physical proof in the house, in the garage, in the car, on her, on ham. IT just did that up.

Rather than the angry stocker describe by the state, the offence, said David swift was just worried about his wife.

You're in a relationship and somebody you believe is not. Be an honest with you. You check on them. You ask questions. There's no violence.

The event said. David was not capable of violence. His bad knee made that impossible. His physical therapy took the hand.

indicate that he would have extreme difficulty walking and lifting.

Oh yes, he definitely had limitations. He had time. Several witnesses testified .

that he actually had a handjar y and he was being treated for d even much after this.

IT was, said, defensive journey Taylor, a classic case of tunnel vision by law enforcement. One of the issues you raised was that the investigation didn't look into possible suspects. Who did you have in mind any particular persons?

There was the issue with mister hague, shooter that lived on the same street, and you about poison in the dog.

Police had cleared hog shooter, but the offense said there were other possible suspects, like the man Karen met when he was at a concert with her friends. The bonus. And on cross examination, the defense asked Kathy bona about that.

From that, they started to having contact.

yes, he a german .

who has a core bit in the bar of his house.

Another suspect emerged during testimony from someone who passed Karen abandoned car the morning he disappeared.

Did you see a person there?

Yeah, we thought maybe was. Hun, ah, so we slow down and whenever ver we slow down, he put a pistol on the hood.

Or how would you describe?

Um 还有 stall um any had dark care。 And of course there was darl cells, the suspect and heather coon's blogs and podcasts. The defense called the three witnesses who told whether they saw sales of the crime scene with a meddle detector before Karen was found.

I deserve something, the word marry. One of them was David swift son dustan. Notice somebody randomly standing in the ditch with the middle detector.

He said he had lost his watch. And if i'm not mistaken, when I look down, he he's got to watch answer. And I thought IT was very odd. Two neighbors of the swifts also testified to seeing their al cells at the same location.

And person you saw near the process .

that what was his name, Ashley swift, also took the end.

I remember fear, very emotional. I'm having to testify for my dads, in a sense, about my dad mother.

I don't think anybody could possibly understand that besides you.

I don't think so.

Are you related to David and currents with. And how do you know that?

sorry.

As he watched his daughter, David swift wept. Ashley composed herself and described the final moment he spent with her mother.

How were you back then?

I was nice.

And were you close to your mother?

I was there.

Do you recall everything about that night?

Um yeah, we came into the house and we went to sleep in her bedroom. Mean her went to left in the bed.

Did you aware a bit moved or your mother getting up?

Yes, I remember her moving me in the middle to my sister's room.

You will call IT being your mother that moves you.

I know I was her was just instinct to know what your mother feels like.

Who moved ashly was a very important issue, innocent enough if IT was her mom. But the state claimed IT was David getting actually out of the way before murdering Karen?

I would know that was hard, after all this time of not feeling car, touching her, smelling her.

I would know is her.

That was the last time IT filter too. IT was .

according to the events, David sleep through the night. He did not move. Actually, I did not use his computer. That must have been Karen. Whatever happened that terrible night, the defense said, David swift had nothing to do with IT.

I don't know what happened, but there is no proof to support that states theory. In this case.

after the offence rested, the prosecution got one more chance with the jury.

Only one person on the planet had the motive, the means and most importantly, the opportunity to kill, care and swift. He was fine with being in a marriage. That was a marriage in name only. Karen was not.

And David killer for IT. After five days of testimony, the lawyers were finished up to the jury now to decide, got a butter lies in your semitic .

that's sure. IT was very on couple days of waiting.

SHE was powerless now as he waited for twelve strangers to decide the fate of her father, ashly swift, in a stew of anxiety. We're all .

sitting there are trying to speculate what they're thinking.

but we don't know their thinking in there.

IT was a very long couple days of waiting .

prosecutors dango t. Box couldn't help speculate to. They felt confident in their circumstantial case, but they felt there was more to David swift than what they were able to present to the jury.

David had got ten us. Some trouble, and out obama in july two thousand twenty three, while waiting trial for cranes murder, David was out on bail and was allowed to go back home to alabama. That's where, as x wife Kelly still lived, Kelly contacted parents friend andy.

David's second wife was asking me about things like, did he do this and that to Carry like he was doing to her? And what that involved was like putting a tracker on her vehicle, calling her all the time, never leaving her alone.

David was wearing an echo monitor, and authorities could see he was near kell's house late at night.

The police department notified her that he had been stalking her, and he looked at her security camera and he actually caught him leaving over her fans.

David was charged with first degree stocking in alabama. He pleaded not guilty, his bond and the murder charge was revoked, and he was sent back to a tendency jail. The prosecutor or knew the stocking case would be inadmissible in the murder trial, so the jury never heard about that.

They deliberated for one day and then two ready to go away for the jury. The jurors sent a note to the judge they had made up their minds. Sort of.

does the jury agree on the highest level of offence that the defendant is either guilty or not guilty?

Yes.

what is the, what is the verdict in that?

Not guilty, not guilty of first degree murders and not guilty of second degree murder. The charges had Carried a possible life sentence. There was another charge, voluntary manslaughter, which Carries a penalty of three to six years. Did the jury believe David killed Karen in the heat of passion?

As the jury fan that defended not guilty of voluntary .

manslaughter.

no agreement.

a hung jury, the judge declared a this trial. What is that like as you're sitting there? After having put all that time and effort into this case .

is extremely frustrating. Timoni will not prosecute a case against a person unless we have no doubt that we're prosecuting the right person.

It's a hard peal to swell. It's just tour at all of our hearts knowing that we had not got just as for caring.

David swift has been acquitted of murder and cannot be tried again, but D. A. Goodmen reinstated him on the man slighter charge. A new trial date has .

not been set, wasn't coming home for now.

David is still behind bars. He's facing those stocking charges in alabama, too. How's you doing there? Can you tell?

I think he tries to stay positive as much as he can, but obviously, he feels like he's missing out on a lot. I just finished school and my sister graduated high school and started college. And I think that's hard for him.

hard for you too.

I would think, yes.

it's been a hard road for the swift children, but they're finding a way through actually went to college and works as a data hygienist. She's still living in alabama.

This has been over a decade going on. And obviously, I want justice for my mom and I want my dad home, but I want to live a Normal life.

So no real ending for now, except one big change. Bitter enemies heather coin and darl cells agree about one thing. They are both looking forward to the retrial.

I want him to be found not guilty so that they can go back and get on the right track.

If he is convicted, we'll all stuff go away. Do you think I thank you. Well, they'll they'll shut up.

yeah. If he's found guilty of manslaughter, I think I will quiet and everything down. And that will be some kind of a closure to this case, closure. When would that be nice? But after all this time, some of Karen friends are more confused than ever about what happened .

to I don't see how they can convict him on what they have. I just don't feel like IT is strong enough to say that he did this.

I don't know whether David killer, I don't know.

I know what .

an thing you not anymore.

I just want her to be able to rest. I want her kids to be able to rest. I want, you know, I want justice for her. And I don't know that that's never going to.

They're trying to make peace with the not knowing and they cherish what's left memories of the Karen they loved the split fire friend who was up for anything with her kids in tow.

Not something that I want everyone to know. He was a wonderful mother.

My mom is that mom. I went to every single game, every cheer thing.

every dance competition SHE like.

yes, he did. He loved being a mom.

Hi, mr. R, she's just .

SHE deserves .

to be here. And whoever sucker. I hope they get what they deserve.

That's all for this edition of deadline and check out our talking date line podcast. Keith more and blame Alexander will go behind the scenes of tonight's episode available wednesday in the date line feet. Wherever you get your podcasts, i'll see you again next friday at nine eight central, unless you hold for all of us at nbc news. Good night.

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