Ep. 45: Fall Bear with Jeff Roberts
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Welcome back to Cutting the Distance. Today's guest is a lifelong Washington resident. My buddy Jeff Roberts grew up hunting in eastern Washington for mule deer as a traditional wall tent camp with his dad and uncles. Success was low, but morale was high and memories were plentiful. At first, hunting was just something like many of us. He did in October, but rapidly turned into a year-long obsession. In 2016, he started PN Wild to share his adventures with everybody else.

Today, PN Wild is a successful small business providing professional imagery and videography, as well as running a podcast and YouTube channel dedicated to showcasing not only the beauty of Washington State, but all other Western states where we can pursue big game. Washington State hosts an amazing fall bear season, allowing hunters to harvest two bears statewide beginning August 1st. Over the years, fall bear hunting has become a top priority for him and PN Wild, and in 2022 last year,

The three members of PN Wild harvested seven bears, one being in Montana, six in Washington. And I know they help friends and family with many more. So I figured there wasn't a better guest to have on the show to talk about fall bear season. We're right in the middle of it. And welcome to the show, Jeff. Yeah, man. Thanks for having us. Appreciate that. Are you chomping at the bit yet to get out there? I know we've started to see some success on social media and whatnot. And it seems like it's going pretty good right off the bat. Yeah.

It is, man. I'm actually kind of learning to love the opener rather than just kind of waiting for it, you know, getting into September when a lot of people think it gets better, which it does, but the opener can be really good. But yeah, I went out last night actually and turned up not a bear, but a decent buck. So that's always fun to just get outside and have a tag in your pocket. It just feels good to be out there. And it's August 1st is a pretty early opener around the West. I think we're one of the ones that

kick it off really. But yeah, it's good. I'm super excited to get rolling. Yeah. This is one of those weird years where I don't, I'm not going to pretend to know, you know, usually you get the bad winter. Like we had a big snow pack and everybody's like, Oh, the berries are going to be late. But then we've had like this accelerated late spring into summer. So is it going to like speed the berries up or they, and it's always kind of interesting to see, are you going to miss, you know, have like a bad barrier for, you know, at least for us hunting the West slopes of the Cascades or even here where we're picking up huckleberries or blackberry bears, uh,

Like where are the berries at and are they going to come on right or late or early or not at all? So we're trying to sit and wait that out. And what are your buddies seeing right now? Are their berries low or are they still late?

Yeah, so I'm right there with you, man. I was this whole offseason in July just leading into it. I was super concerned that we were going to have a really, really late barrier because our snowpack was so deep up high. And then it's completely opposite of what we were kind of fearing. Mid-July, Zach and I went on a scouting trip and we were finding huckleberries ripe at around 36. And last night they were at 42. So it's kind of...

accelerated and just like you said kind of right in the July just a lot of consecutive really really hot days and I think huckleberries I mean I know huckleberries are ripe at 42 and a couple of my buddies are smashing them right now at 4000 my buddy John actually went out on opener yesterday which was he was recording this on August 2nd so opener was yesterday and they killed one at 41 so

It's right there with maybe on our normal year. Last year, it's way ahead. Last year on opening weekend, we were killing them right around 24, 26, and that was the only ripe berry source. So it's definitely past that.

Gotcha. Yeah. We're going to dive a lot deeper into the food sources and stuff here in a little bit, but just trying to get a recap on what you're seeing. So I have to tell a funny story. You know, we were, as we got to know each other, you were able, I think we first kind of met up, you, you came down to the Western hunt with me and worked the booth, I think two years.

Yeah. So 20, I think it was 20, just one year. And I think it was 2017, I think. Yeah. Or 2018 maybe. Yeah. Yeah. So we got to know you there and then, but the original time we met, um, I think maybe you were fairly new. You had obviously hunted mule deer and stuff before in East Washington, but I think you had just drawn an elk tag and, and that's kind of how we had met. You were kind of picking me for information and where we'd go. And, um, your spot was good. And I, I think we kind of, you know, together kind of, you told me what you had seen and it kind of correlated with what I thought.

But there was this one spot in the unit that I really wanted you to check out. And you were, I think you were over there scouting like every weekend. And I'm like, what do you see there? He's like, oh, we didn't go in there yet. Or I didn't set a cam there yet. And it was one of those drain. It was two drainages that met, but they were just a little bit kinked from each other. So it had these two passes where it kind of connected at a diagonal. And so the best thing I could do is to make up a story about my neighbor having an elk tag that had been over there scouting as well. It was a rifle tag.

Um, but he had been seeing a giant in this area, but Hey, Jeff, just, just, just don't go tell. If you see this guy up there, you didn't talk to me. And so I can remember real, real vividly on a Sunday morning. I'm like, Oh, Jeff Roberts is FaceTiming me. And, uh, as I answered the phone, I actually answered it into the spotting scope and there was a, a real good bowl there. Um,

And I wasn't a giant, but it was like a 320, 330 type bowl, like a great Washington bowl. Yeah, it was one of those bigger bowls that we've scouted. So I was super excited. I was like, man, this Jason guy is super nice, man. What a nice guy. I don't remember if I told you the truth then or if I waited a while to tell you that I'd actually lied to you about that. But it's kind of funny. I'm like, well, at least my hunch was right that there should be a good bowl there.

But that was kind of a funny little story as we got to know each other there. You guys were just, I think that was the first year you guys did anything with PN Wild, right? That was your first year filming and whatnot? Yeah, that was the year that I drew my quality east side archery tag and super excited about it. But yeah, like you said, grew up mule deer hunting and didn't know anything about elk hunting. My dad never did it. It was always just mule deer, mule deer, mule deer. Nothing but elk.

mule deer. So no elk, no bear. So it was all kind of on my own to learn it. And I just kind of hit the ground running and came across you and your content that you were putting out on the local forums and stuff. And then I reached out to you there. We kind of exchanged numbers, bought a lot of your calls and stuff, and then ended up, I don't know how you gave out your cell phone to me. That's a big problem right there. But

You did. And then I got a tip from you like, hey, I heard there was a nice bowl in here. And sure enough, went up there and at first light, scouted that bowl out. He was with like two or three other bowls, just kind of batched it up in that summer stuff. And I was like, holy cow, this is the one Jason was talking about for sure. Just a nice 320, 330 bowl or something. It was all made up. I just had to get you there somehow to check it out. I wanted to know. Well, it worked, man. I was a sucker. And I just went right in there and put some glass on it. I was like, worst thing, you know, get in there and get some glass on it. And sure enough, it turned up.

Yeah, no, that hunt was a good one. If you guys want to go check it out, I think it's one of the original PN Wild videos. So go check that out. But like every Cutting the Distance podcast, we're going to start this thing with listener questions.

So if you have a question for me, my guests, make sure to hit us up on social, send us a message, email us at CTD at Phelps game calls.com. We'll do our best to get those questions answered for you. So we got three questions today. I'm going to give these questions to Jeff first and I'll either add to or, or take away from that or disagree or agree with them. So.

So the first question we got, which is as important right now as I think it's maybe 85 degrees outside. Um, how do you take care of your bear in the field when it's hot? Um, you know, you got hot weather you're dealing with, which affects the meat. You've got taxidermy, you've got this hot weather bears more so than any other critter, like very quick to slip the hide. You don't want that hair to start slipping. So give us kind of what your, your field care is and what you're thinking about in the, you know, the field when you get to a bear after you're done taking pictures.

Yeah. So this is, this is something that is a huge question of ours as well. And I actually just did a video on our YouTube channel about how, how I rug something out. And again, I'm not a taxidermist. I'm not, you know, some professional. We just do it, you know, a couple of times a year and it seems to work. I got two of them behind me that Jason can see. Those are both of our soft hands from last year. Both of them are beautiful chocolates. So it's like, man, I got to take these and get these taken care of.

But I think it's, especially for me, I hunt primarily on the east side in August, early August into that early September. It can dip into the hundreds. It can get really, really hot. So one of the priorities that we really prioritize, prioritize number one is just get into the shade. And if you're,

If you're not, you got, you gotta find some kind of shade, especially when you're processing. Cause that can take, you know, several hours. And so this is exactly the process that I did last year. Get these bears into the shade while you're caping them, while you're taking them, you know, quartering them out, whatever you want to do. Um, so get them into the shade, get cool. Just step one is get, get into a cooler place. And if you're next to a Creek or something, even better, get down into the shade, get some wind going, um, get some air to that hide. And like you said, if you're going to keep that rug or keep that trophy, um,

the hide is the first thing that's going to start slipping. But if you start getting to meet, as you start quartering them out, what we'd like to do, and it's in that video as well, we just get the quarters off into shade. And if you've got to have a buddy, you know, leapfrog them a hundred yards down the Creek or whatever you're at, just get them into some shade, get them out of the direct sunlight and get them in a game bag hanging the air to that, that quarter is going to help a ton too. It doesn't have to be cool. It just has to be that air running to that, that, um, excuse me, that quarter.

So have a buddy leapfrogging or you can get up and you guys can just take turns cutting if you're solo. You just got to get it into the shade. And as you kind of work that bear down and you're getting rear hams off and you're getting neck meat off, I would just get that meat out off that hide exposed to, you know, into a game bag and exposed to wind of some sort and some shade. And then just like it's cliche, but get back to the truck as fast as you can. A big tip is keep your coolers packed.

So don't just show up to the hunt with no ice in your cooler. Yeah, expect to be successful. It's going to pay off if you are. Spend the $10 on ice or a cheap way to do it is just everyone drinks milk at home or has water. If you don't, throw a milk jug full of ice water

So freeze them overnight at home. Get those coolers nice and cooled down on your way to a hunt. We're kings of just weekend warriors. And sometimes Friday after work, you have that cooler in your truck already filled with those coolers.

those frozen milk jugs of ice or on at least your way, get the block ice. It just seems to last longer rather than this crushed. So get a couple of things of block ice in your cooler. So when you get back to the truck, you have a nice cool spot to put that meat in right away. Unfortunately, we experienced a little bit of spoilage last year on one of Bobby's bears, just one of our seven, just that top layer of the cooler. And it could have just been the way that we stacked it or it just could have been, you know, it was $100.

five and, you know, got to get six miles and that takes some time. And what's in your backpack and it's next to your back, that heat from your body can just get to that, that meat. And unfortunately, I don't know if it's spoiled on the way or just, you know, the next couple of days after we got back to the truck and continued to hunt.

We had a little bit of spoilage in the very, very top of one of Bobby's quarters. So it does happen and it's a reality. And I think just being cautious of it can pay off. Yeah, bears... And I'm not responsible for these numbers, but on a deer elk, we kind of always...

figure we've got two to three days as long as it's not scorching hot, like before that hide starts to slip to get it to the taxidermist to get it salted. But a bear, I mean, on a warm day, you're dealing with 24 hours. You got less than a day to deal with that thing, get it cooled down. And one thing to reiterate what you said about airflow versus heat, like I'm willing to let something, if I had to set something down in the shade

on let's say a game bag or on a on a my waterproof sack versus let it hang in in 90 degree heat like air is just as important especially in that first 24 hours is heat is now ideally you get both you know get stuff to the shade and hanging but i'd rather let something hang you know if it's a little bit warmer but get air to all you know every side of that meat and then in that first

12 to 14 hours i don't pay as much attention to to the meat or not to me but the but the the heat um i would rather get airflow to it like you said in in your pack when that thing you know is not able to breathe and you're like that's where you're gonna get that spoilage so the quicker you can get that thing to air and get it to air out let some out some of that heat like it's it's all it's

It's all to the benefit of the quality of that meat. But yeah, bears, bears are interesting. One thing on the taxidermy side, um, there's a lot of ways to do it. Some people will make a decision down the back and then like case skin the legs. I didn't, it seemed easier for, for the way I run a knife or what I thought was to cut down the inside of all four legs. And then I connect them with angled lines that connect down the belly. Um, a taxidermist has to sew that anyways, um,

Um, and so as long as don't get too nervous, as long as you're making clean, straight cuts, um, you can connect the four legs down to a center line, you know, come down to angles meet. And then, um, the tax and then case skin out the neck, the tax term is going to be able to put that together. No problem. Um, you'll never know, you know, mine, mine had a white Chevron on it. The one that I had full mounted. And so I changed, I just changed the angles of my line. So I didn't have to deal with like, but you still had to take your center line through it. Um,

Which was, it was a little disheartening, but a good taxonomist will put that back together like it should go.

Yeah. I haven't had the, you know, the, the chance to life-size a bear yet. So that's a, I guess that's a good problem to have. Is it a different cut thinking about it? Is it going to be a different cut than a, than a bear rug, your traditional rug? No, no, it'll be real. It'll be real similar. So if you imagine like the bear, so the same cuts lay the bear out as wide as it can. Um, so if you go on the inside of everything, when you lay that hideout, you're getting the max, you know, there'll be some trimming and whatnot, but yeah, you would do it the same way.

Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. So the next question, um, which is something that I had to learn a lot coming from deer elk hunting, especially archery elk hunting, where we don't glass as much, um, during fall bear, how long are you going to glass before you move spots? Oh man. Um, and,

In some of our spots, if we know that there should be a bear in that particular area, so just like kind of rethinking last season where it was just lights out, it was one of the best bear seasons we've had in a long time. And I'll move fairly quickly, especially if I know that the rest of the trail or if further on down, if a couple basins over that we still got to check, we'll move fairly quickly.

we're gonna move fairly quickly, especially in the fall if the berries are right, huckles are right. There's a very small window of time that a bear's not gonna be on those, especially the later in the fall you go. So early in August, yeah, sit and sit on a clear cut. Sit on a berry patch that you see is right for a little bit longer. As you progress through the fall, as the huckleberries kind of kick off up higher and they're drying out down lower, and they're kind of going into that fall vacuum mode where they're just only caring about a food source,

man, I'll just keep checking basins. I'll move faster. So it kind of depends on the time of year that we're in. Early time or early season, like right now, yeah, I might hang out for half a day and just wait for see if something's going to come out, especially if I'm on clear cuts or something like that. You could sit all day on a clear cut that you know is going to hold a bear at a point in time. But as you progress through the fall,

I'm going to be moving more rapidly, especially if I know, you know, insert some of our areas where we have so many areas intertwined on a trail system, or if I'm on a ridgeline that has base and base and base and base and in the high country, like we like to do it. Um, yeah, I'm, I'm moving pretty frequently. I might stop in glass for 30 minutes and see if I can pick something up. And if not, I'll move on to the next one and we'll kind of just do a, a back and forth on a, you know, six mile trail or, um, you know, you know, back and forth on a,

three or four mile a ridgeline or something like that and just keep checking little basins yep and we'll get into it a lot more but one of those things like once you realize where those berries are at and what elevation like you're being a smart hunter right so you're gonna know all right the berries are on from 46 to 52 or whatever and you're just gonna you really have to you only have to concentrate on a ribbon of

of the mountain you know you don't have to go above it exactly you don't have to go below it so your your glass is literally on a tripod just swinging at an elevation and and uh you know but around now that's different you know like when i hunt the goat rocks you know some of our our mountainous stuff versus if i'm hunting here on home where i'm industrial timberland you know i'm dealing with blackberry brush or alders or devil's club uh we were talking about this before the podcast um

I can sit and glass, like know that I'm in a spot where we've been seeing bears. So, you know, you're, you're just not willing to move clear cuts, right? You're just going to, you're going to glass this big clear cut all night, but you can literally glass hours. And within an instant, all of a sudden the bear pops out of nowhere. And that's where I feel that if you're hunting more industrial timberlands, clear cut type stuff, um,

It's tough to do, right? Because I'm not very patient. But if you know there are bears in the area, you've seen them there before, like your best bet is not to leave a bear to go find a bear, right? I would, I hammer that more than going to find a new area. And so I've learned to be a lot more patient. It gets boring as heck. It seems like you're looking at the same thing.

you know, same thing over and over and over, but it's penciled out more times and not around here versus, you know, just driving around looking at new clear cuts. I don't know if there's bears that have been frequenting it. Yeah, exactly. And if you don't know, there's a food source in that clear cut, you know, most chances are that there's going to be some kind of a berry in that food source or in that clear cut. But yeah, if you know that you're on a clear cut or you're in a basin that holds huckleberries that you know is ripe, like you said, we already have the legwork done. We know there's elevation wise where they're 55 to 60

I'm going to just sit there and kind of back and forth, go to base and the base and the base and at those elevation lines and tell something is in there. And when they are, man, you got plenty of time to make a play because they're going to be on food for a long time. Yep. Yep.

Yep. And rolling into our last question, um, shot placement on a bear. You know, this is one of those topics that is, uh, as I get questions from guys, um, you know, as we just, it is August 2nd. So our season just started yesterday. Uh, but a lot of questions like, where do you shoot a bear, you know, or, or guys arguing with their hunting, hunting buddies where, you know, a lot of this new stuff has come out where to shoot a bear. And so I'll let you explain and I'll kind of, uh, see what, if we, if we match up there, where are you going to shoot a bear, Jeff?

Well, this, I mean, debated this and everyone's got a different answer. Middle of middle. Um, I'm a little forward of middle of middle. Um, especially on a perfectly broad side. Like I have a, an awesome video last year on our last, uh, last episode on our YouTube channel from last fall. Uh, I just got a beautiful bear in like picture perfect Alpine meadows.

just wide open. And I just wait for, um, ended up being a sow. She turned completely broadside and you can see that I just aimed slightly forward of middle of middle and it was lights out in, you know, 30 seconds. So you can't really argue with that. Some people do have the argument of, you know, shoulder shooting them if, uh, and, and so just anchor them right there. You hear that on forums and stuff and it's, it works for people. Everyone, um,

There's nine ways to skin a cat, I guess. Where are you sitting? Are you middle, middle guy? Yeah, so I'm middle, middle, just slightly forward of middle. It's hard to say when you're shooting at a bear to push it three inches forward. So I always imagine you take the heads and the legs off of a bear and you're left with what's a body. So for those of you that don't know what we're saying by middle of middle, if you just draw a line...

you know, halfway up horizontally and halfway up vertically and set your crosshairs there and then just go a little bit towards the front, front end of them. Like that's where we're shooting. Um, yep. I, there are guys that will kill bears by shooting them like deer and elk, you know, they're going bottom third, bottom quarter, and then going slightly behind the shoulder or through the shoulder. It, it will work and it's killed bears. But I also think

that more bears are lost due to that shot placement versus more conservative go hot you know go up to that middle of middle give yourself a bigger target and the bear is going to die really really quick when you hit them in in that spot you know their their lungs are back a little bit further than most you know compared to our deer and elk that most people hunt yeah so it's it's it's a more conservative shot you got more room for error and the bear is going to die real quick versus trying to break them down to the the front shoulders

Yeah, I agree. It does feel weird when you got crosshairs and you're kind of this, like, it feels like you're aiming too far back, but like ungulates, like you're saying, dark deer and elk, they're just, their anatomy is different. So that the bears just tend to sit back a little bit farther and it does feel weird, but middle, middle, slightly forward. That's a, that's a great way to look at it. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Well, once again, if you guys have questions for me or my guests, make sure to email them to us at CTD at Phelps game calls.com or send us a social message and we'll, we'll do our best to get them on here for the guests. So now we're going to jump into our discussion, Jeff, you know,

we come from a state where we no longer uh get to hunt bears and in the spring which was one of my favorite favorite types of hunting um and it gets a lot of attention but rightfully so right um spring bear there isn't a whole lot else going on aside from turkeys a lot of big game hunters despise turkeys for some reason i love it but you know it was that first time man it was that first time to get back in the mountains kind of chase the snow up those bears are you know and but

but we don't have that anymore. So here in Washington, we've got a great bear population and our fall hunting is pretty dang good as well. Not to mention these bears have put on an extra 60, 80 pounds since the spring. They're a little bigger, a little tastier, a little more fat. Um,

So we've, uh, we have to love, uh, fall bear season. As we mentioned, it's a great state. Like I would never recommend anybody come here for deer elk, but if you're just looking for a fall bear hunt in August to get ahead of big game, like I apologize for our pricing for non-residents, but it's a, it can be a pretty, it can be a pretty dang good hunt to come here. And, and we would really appreciate if you helped us out with all of our bears.

A hundred percent agree with you, man. I can't recommend it enough. We've had a couple of friends and partners from other States come out to Washington to hunt with us and been successful so far. I mean, I don't think it's actually too terribly bad. I think a non-resident bear is like 280 bucks or something like that. If I remember correctly, I apologize if it's, if I'm way off on that, but I think it's in the two to 300 ballpark there.

Gotcha. Yeah, that's not bad at all. So let's jump in. We're kind of start this start to finish. So scouting, do you do any scouting for fall bear or are you just going back to your existing spots year after year?

So this year, actually, with with Zach drawing another elk tag, we haven't been doing the scouting that we usually do for fall bear. But yes, on a I'll say a quote unquote normal year for us where we don't have a priority elk tag that, you know, takes 19 points to draw where our kind of efforts have been down there scouting for that and hanging cameras and doing that.

But on a more normal year, yes, we're in the field scouting and we're not really necessarily looking for bears, although that's going to be a great bonus if you do find one. We're kind of just keeping our finger on the pulse of the berries, what's going on, where the snow elevation is. And we're kind of planning out the fall because we've wanted our local spots or our favorite spots for a decade, over a decade now. And we kind of know what to look for at certain times of the year. You hit these milestones of, you know, I got pictures on my phone's

of, you know, the basins that we like to hunt and their snow depth as the, as the spring and summer kind of, you know, progress and we're getting closer to fall. And, and it's kind of like a stopwatch after that snow in those high on those high basins is completely melted off and you're getting the sunlight onto soil. It's a stopwatch and we like to say 60 days and it's, it's right there on, on, on a,

let's just say an average year, maybe not accelerated drought or some kind of crazy rainfall. On a normal year where you're just getting kind of normal weather, it's about 60 days. And from that snow melting off and getting sunlight on the soil, you can pretty much guarantee that 60 days from then, you're going to have huckleberry starting to become ripe.

And it's worked out in the past for us. So let's say June 1st, you got sunlight on soil. You can say that August 1st, around then, give or take a week or so, you're going to have ripe berries. And then that'll work on for that higher country stuff where July 1st. So that pushes you out to that Labor Day window. And time and time and time again, we've been able to prove this, if you will, where that it kind of, it works out more times than not.

So scouting absolutely keep your eye on weather keep your eye on The the berry sources keep your eyes on basins and and obviously like we got to a road last time Last year we got to a road and our main in and out road was closed due to a landslide So you might not know that when you get there august 1st ready to go for a hunt and you can't get there So now you got an audible, right? So it always is going to benefit to keep your finger on the pulse and get in your area keep

glass on the hills and kind of keep your eye on the berries too. That's a huge thing. So then you know that, you know, okay, I need to be at, you know, 41 for open or not 26. This is a huge swing from last year. We're 2000 feet above and I'm not speaking for everyone in Washington state. So don't hang me out to dry if it's not, if I'm talking about areas that don't kind of add up to you, but in our areas, the Northern Cascades,

we're way different from last year. We're way above what we were last year for Barry Ripon. And that's why I think it's very important that you should be out in the field as much as you can. Yep, yep. And like you mentioned, he's talking Northern Cascades. I'm in kind of the Central Cascades area.

But I think the important thing to take away is use data and start to develop a plan. Like, you know, these guys have been doing it enough where they know 60 days. And, you know, so they, if they, if they're paying attention to the snow line, they're going to have a pretty good idea where those bears are going to be once August 1st gets here. And then once they're out in the field, they can kind of, you know, keep track of them and keep track of it.

how they move and how the bears are moving up. And like I say, if you're being a smart hunter, you're also going to be able to see where the berries are moving just as you're on the ground or as you're trying to eat the berry path, you know, eat the berries as you go. Like you're at the right elevation when you're trying to eat the berries. So I do want to touch on e-scouting, but I'm going to save that a little bit

later in the podcast when we talk about terrain and elevation and whatnot. So, um, e-scouting is a very important part, especially, you know, I think for bear hunters to look for some things, but we'll separate that from scouting. It relates a little more to terrain and what you're looking for, for, you know, finding food sources and whatnot.

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do you find that the bears that you guys are hunting travel a long distance or are they just going up and down the mountain are they are they pushing out of an area to get back or are you are you guys do you believe they're just going up and down a drain it's almost like say a migrating deer from where they're denning in the spring you know if they come out and and

in April, May. Um, what's your opinion on where these bears are traveling by time the fall season gets here? Is there a way to scout them year round or are they just kind of hanging out in an area eating, you know, the cadmium layer on fir trees and eating the brush that they do that the new, the new fresh grasses kind of what's your opinion on travel or is it, um, do you guys even try to pay attention to any of that?

Absolutely, man. And I rack my brain a lot of the times trying to figure that out because in, let's just say Labor Day, that's like our peak timing for fall bear. I think everything is primarily ripe up in Alpine. And that's just, in my opinion, the funnest time to hunt them because they're way exposed. They're way up in the Alpine on berries and

and they're very stationary. They're going to be sitting there. Like last year, I shot my last bear of the season, my second bear of the season at like 1.15 in the afternoon. And you could see that bear for, she didn't, she couldn't get away from, you know, a mile and a half in each space and she's in the wide open, very little cover. So it's very fun. You know, they're very exposed. They're out in the wide open, you know, kind of making themselves pretty vulnerable. So

Anyways, that's at 7,200 feet, pretty high, 68 to 72. And you got to wonder where did this thing travel from? Where do you den? Obviously down in the valley somewhere, but maybe not. Maybe they do stay up high. I don't know if they're like old gnarly mule deer bucks that just don't want to come down. But yes, I tried to figure that out. And I know for a fact that they're going to have to come down because...

it's just, it's just too high up there. The food source is just so rare up there. And then at their springtime, they're going to be having, they're going to need to come down and, and find a food source in the early spring. And I have found bears in some of our higher basins in that later springtime. So like early June, you know, you're driving through and you whip the glass out and you're checking out a basin and you're like, Whoa, there's a, there's a bear up there eating that really lush green grass, you know, at, you know, 6,200 feet in, in June 5th or something. Um,

But yeah, I don't really have a finger on the Pulse as far as their traveling goes, but it is something that is very curious to me. Where do they go? What are they doing in that time where they're not really exposed up in the Alpine? And then in the early August, early August, early, I guess it's going to be late summer, early August,

Um, then they'll all start coming out and they'll start, they'll start at that 3,200 feet elevation is really kind of the elevation I start at in the Northern Cascades on the Eastern slope. And you kind of work your way up so you can hunt Creek bottoms in August 1st. And then as the fall progresses, as we get into fall, you know, you're going to find them at 7,072, something like that. I shot at a bear last year at like 73. So they're going to go to the top where that food source carries them. So they're just going to go wherever that food source is going. So you're going to start

early August down in the creek bottoms as kind of the vegetation is ripened down there. And they're just really going to go with it. They're just going to travel that water line, if you will, up to the top when that food source is, as long as that food source is lasting, they're going to be on them. Yeah. And I know there's been some studies where bears will move, you know, 30 plus miles just in the fall. So like,

Like we're talking late July and just to find the berries or find the right food source. And there's a local guy here, you know, Capitol Forest up just southwest of Olympia. He killed a bear just out my back door that was collared in Capitol Forest and then got killed in almost PL Washington. So, you know, we're talking 50 miles as a crow flies.

um real old i don't remember the 13 or 16 year old bear really really old bear but yeah they it just

They will travel a long, long ways, either looking for, you know, during the rut, looking for sows or looking for the right food source. And it kind of snapped my mind a little bit that a bear let go there. I wouldn't believe it if it wasn't collared that, you know, it travels 50 miles as a crow flies to, you know, from Capitol Hill to Willapa Hills here. It just seemed like a long ways for those bears to go.

Yeah. I mean, it doesn't really surprise me, but I mean, on the other hand, it kind of does like there's gotta be food sources for them and they don't need to travel that much. But like you said, it could be, um, the rut for them or it could just be food driven. You never know. Yep. Yep. Um, and then there we did, we're not going to talk a whole lot about it, but there's like the, the, um, you know, alpha bore or whatever you want it, like just getting kicked out or displaced out of his area. And, and one thing that,

you know, talking to some, some bear hunters that have a lot more experience than I do at it is there are prime spots where

on the landscape right that that big big mature bears boars they like to have the easy pickings and they're going to take over that spot as soon as their their pedigree or their their uh you know their their names on the pecking order at a high enough place they're going to kick all those other boars out and so it sounds like on a lot of these spots you can go back almost yearly um and

as long as you don't shoot out an entire area and find those biggest boars in similar spots year after year. Absolutely, man. I have a pretty funny story about this exact situation. So last year, a buddy of mine, Chris McCallum, was watching this just absolute slob of a bear in a high alpine meadow. And they're trying to make a move on him, get up in there to that exact meadow. And they watched this bear go up and over cliffs. And I'm talking like mountain goat country type of cliffs.

Kind of watched him go up and over. And they're sitting on him, hoping he's going to come back down in the evening, come down on those cliffs and onto that food source because he was on a really, really ripe, just amazing huckleberry field. And then two or three hours after that big jet black bear went up and over, a little tiny chocolate flake

comes out of the trees and starts feeding in his meadow. So exactly back to that kind of alpha boar or something like that, where they kind of command their, their respect to the other bears when they're there and they're feeding, that's their spot. And then after he went up and out, you know, like, Oh, I'm kind of full. I'm going to go take a nap, you know, midday after he left a couple hours later, here comes this tinier, um,

lone boar, you know, two, three hours later and just takes his little berry patch. So it is funny to watch that kind of interact and kind of think about that. And bears, how many times have you seen, you know, multiple bears in the same meadow within a couple of days? Yeah, a lot. You know, when I had, you know,

A good spot up here where we had multiple bears, they, it's almost like they gravitate towards each other. And that's where, like, if you find a bear, there's typically going to be more around there, even in the fall, you know, springtime, especially when they're running. Um, but it just seems like our good clear cuts are bigger clear cuts that are at that right age, you know, six to 12 years old, not typically your fresh clear cuts. You're going to have multiple bears all in that same general area. Now they might hang out on opposite sides. They don't want to be around each other, but

Yeah, multiple bears and similar spots because once again, we're going to talk about it here in a little bit. It's really tied to the food source in that area, the prime food source. They're all trying to get a piece of that.

I absolutely agree. Absolutely agree. I've seen it time and time again, where there's just multiple, multiple bears in the same general area and they're kind of playing hot basin too. But last year in one of our premier spots that we just kind of hold on that labor day, we can do a, you know, a 10 mile loop and I'm talking five in and then kind of five around. We say, you know, 10 plus bears, you know, and that's counting cubs with sows and stuff, but

that's a lot of bears in the same ecosystem. And I think, and like, there's gotta be more too. I think we saw 13 in one day, just kind of doing our 10 mile loop, you know, out and around, just kind of hopping basins. You're riding ridgelines and you're looking this way and you're glass and, you know, miles and miles and miles, but within a, you know, five square mile, you know, radius seeing 13 bears out in the wide open and the Alpine feeding on berries, you know,

just like you say they kind of gravitate towards each other and i don't think it's necessarily that because they want to be around each other i think it's just food sources once there's a really really good food source in that area obviously this localized area this five square miles it has just a ton of food sources water source cover everything that bears need and once you find that it's a real you got to hold it near and dear because that's a that's a really good spot and every year you know year after year we get back in there and we'll harvest a couple bears

Yeah. We'll talk about wind here in a little bit, but I think a bear's nose and their keen sense of smelling is so good. Like they, you don't have to, they know exactly where the food's at, right? Whether they can get there because of a more mature bear or whatnot is a different story, but they're going to try to eat on the fringe of that, of that good food source. So let's jump into that. That's a great segue into this because this is probably the, the, the most important topic when it comes to fall bear hunting is food sources and what elevation are you going to hunt at? Um,

We talk about all this other stuff, but I would say it's an accessory to this as far as finding bears and figuring out how to kill them. Bears, some of them have said to eat 15,000 calories a day and be on their feet 20 hours a day to do so. These bears are trying to fatten up. I've also heard stats where they will eat

quite a bit in the spring and summer, but in the month of August alone, they may put on 20% of their body weight in that one month of August, which correlates very timely to the berries usually popping. And so I kind of, I kind of agree with all of that, but

Kind of give me, let's roll all the way back to, let's say springtime, you know, where their food sources, grasses and, and, you know, bark and, uh, you know, wild onions or whatever may have in that area, whatever, whatever's available, some roots and yeah. Yeah. Whatever they can dig and scrounge for versus we start to get into the fall. Like we were through, through the beginning of the summer, how does their food change and what, what food sources are they looking for? You know, it,

Berries are at the top, but they are still looking and keying in on some other stuff as well, but kind of walk through food sources and elevation. And we've touched on it a little bit, but the process to find them.

Yeah. So just in my Northern Cascades is kind of where I spend majority of my time, but I've drawn, you know, I've been on several other spring bear hunts. I think you and I both drew the same unit the same year. So kind of bouncing a lot of questions, you know, off each other back then, what you see and where you're at, you know, um, but going back to this, my experience in the spring, they're so unpredictable.

And we would see, you know, upwards of 15 to 20 bears a day from one glassing knob. And I went with a guy that I just really just admired a lot. It was Shane Vander Geese. And he's in, you know, up in the North side, Skagit County, Whatcom County, I think, and just went with him and learned from him just on the spring bear thing. And they're so unpredictable and they're just, they're,

everything is so green in the spring. And I think the majority of the stuff that we were watching was them just on grass and then traveling these ridge tops, rolling rocks, eating grubs, eating these balsam roots, eating these wild onions. And then they're just kind of cruising, kind of looking for, we never saw bears being stationary. And that was kind of more in the Eastern side. And then we kind of more moved towards, in my experience, where I've been out scouting in the spring for mule deer. And we're talking early, early June, late May, Labor Day, November,

or excuse me, Memorial Day is kind of when I start scouting, you know, getting my lay of the land and stuff. And we'll see bears at 5,000 feet in late May, early June. It's still snowing on us. And we're finding bears just kind of cruising country. I'm, forgive me, but I don't know exactly what they're eating that time of year. It's just gotta be, you know, you see their scat and it's just full of grass and green stuff. And I'm sure they're doing the same thing, stumps and rolling rocks and eating grubs. But I think their primary target

at that time in the spring kind of moving into summer is, is just kind of vegetation. Um, obviously they're, uh, omnivorous. So they're going to be, you know, if they come across the fawn at that time, it's horribly sad cause we need to protect our mule deer. Um, but of course they're going to, you know, eat that as well. So I think calling, um, and I'm sure we're going to get into this later, but calling, if you're spring bear, if you're listening to this for spring bear, um, help or advice or whatever, calling is going to be way more effective in my,

you know, my scope here. Um, calling is more effective in the spring just cause they're so opportunistic and they're coming out and they're lethargic, if you will, Lorna Smith. Um, and they're just so dangerous, you know, vulnerable.

you're going to be more effective in that springtime as you move into the fall time where i kind of um spend more time in the woods just because our our seasons are more washington state we don't have a springtime anymore so i have way more experience in the fall it is so much onto the berries as primarily as i can say like i've called it a bear um i'm just trying to get him to stand up and all i needed to do was stand up it's on one of our films and i used one of your um

uh, distress calls and try to get this bear to stand up. And he just wouldn't do it. Just lift his head up and look at me. I just need him to stand up so I could shoot him and just wouldn't do it. So that just tells me that their primary focus is not really on, they've kind of switched out of that opportunistic. If I, you know, find a distressed animal, I'm going to run and chase it down. I need the calories. Now when they're on a food source in that fall time, that late summer, like we are right now, August, September, uh,

If they're on a food source, that's really all they're going to care about. They're just going to suck up those berries. And like you said, I have personally harvested a bear that I have watched in a meadow on a hillside for 14 hours. It's on film on our YouTube channel.

I spot him right at like 545 in the morning on September 11th, 2021. So I watched him, you know, on that berry patch and now he's six miles away. We make our way down there, set up camp, drop camp, and then kind of get my stock on. And I didn't shoot him until 815 at night. So I know that bear did not move. He was in the same exact meadow. Unless there was a bait and switch in the middle of my transition that I couldn't, you know, keep an eye on that hillside. But that's,

There was a bear in the same exact meadow that I was stalking on, you know, 14, 15 hours later. So that's how food driven these things are later in the fall. This was September 11th. So we're kind of getting into that, that phase of the year where they're really trying to pack it on. Like you said, they're eating 15,000 calories in a day. And that bear, I could guarantee you, he was pushing that number and he was on his feet for 20 hours a day, completely exposed.

wide open hillsides, just sucking berries down. And I did a, you know, 14, 15 hour stock on him and was able to get over there and get him killed. Um, but with that being said, the, the, that time of the year, I think it's just holistically berries. And that's in that country that I'm in. If you,

it might not work in the area that you're hunting. So it might not correlate all over Washington State. You could have bears that are working salmon or, you know, kind of spawning, you know, sockeye or coho or, you know, pinks coming into the rivers that they do. And they can be working on that. But as far as the bears that we hunt and that we focused on, they're just strictly berry bears at that time of the year working into that fall. And that's been my favorite time of year to hunt them. Sorry if that was long-winded.

No, no. I like it for the same reasons you do is those bears, once they find that food, they're not going to leave a whole lot, which is a blessing and a curse because as we talked about earlier, glassing a little bit. Like, man, if they're in a wrong spot or they found berries where you can't see them, you're not going to pick them up

for a while because they're not going to leave. And that's one thing I wanted to touch on a little bit. And I don't know if you have those there. I've always kind of categorized. We've got three different types of berries here, like more in the central Cascades. We've got like the very low laying blueberries, which tastes more like a real blueberry to me, but they're only about a foot tall bush.

not very tall. And then you got your huckleberries that are maybe two to three feet tall. And then we've actually got like blueberry trees is what I would call them. They got like this weird crushed velvet type berry on them that are very good. Um, yeah, but the one thing that I like when, when we do hunt in the mountains is, um,

If I can get the, when those small short black or blueberries are on, like that's my favorite because those things can't hide from me. If I'm half in the glass and steeper in the steeper, the better, because that bear can't hide from me as well. But if you start to get to like moderate slopes or getting close to flat berry fields, like it's very, very tough roles that they could hide in. Very, very tough. And so like,

You know, those, those short blueberries seem to hit just a little bit later, more towards the end of August. But when those are on, like that's very, very easy bear hunting because those things are a little more dense than huckleberries. And so that's just one thing to keep in mind. Like,

When those come on, like if you can prioritize your hunt around those, like you may see more bears in the right area or they may be more visible versus, you know, and some of those patches of what I call blueberry trees. I honestly don't know what they are, but they're over top of my head. Like if bears get into those patches, you may never see them. But when you're on the ground or when you're on the trails, like you can see that there's obviously a lot of bear scat and bear sign and bear tracks around them. You just can't see into them when you're glassing across the canyon or whatnot. Yeah. Yeah.

Are you talking about the, the, the blueberry trees that you're talking? Are they like Creek bottom stuff? You find a lot in the Creek bottoms and like bottom of burns. Bottoms a little. We're talking about Saskatoon's and the, and those are kind of what the right now you should be on. Um, but this year, like I was talking about on that particular trail that we hunted last year on, um,

remember the particular area that we hunted last year, the Saskatoon's right now are already gone and they can get, you know, six to eight feet tall droop and just be loaded with those blueberries. But they're, they look like a blueberry, but they're super tart. They're not nearly, they're not a huckle. They're not a blue. So the Saskatoon's are what you usually find the grouse around, right? Like the grouse are usually, so not a Saskatoon. This is actually like a velvety, like a blueberry. It's a light blue to start with. And if you like rub your thumb on it, it kind of turns to a dark blue. But where we're at, we've got,

yes, eight to 10 foot. Um, but yeah, those, those bears love to, to kind of hang out in that they hit ripe about the same time, um, as the rest of them, but they're, they're more loaded up like in bunch berries, kind of like those Saskatoon's and, uh, they'll, uh, they'll sit on those things forever and not move, which drives me nuts versus it's like, all right, at least if you're sitting in one spot out in the small blueberries, uh,

you know, your, your glass is a lot more effective or you can turn them up. So do you find them on any other food source or is it 99% berries, um, during the fall?

Yeah, it's 99% berries. And there's, like you're saying, we're talking about right now, there's so many different types and species of berries that they kind of ripen at different times. They like different times of the year. And then as you move up elevations, that kind of causes ripeness to kind of be all over the place. And that's why you really just have to have your finger on the pulse. If you're not going out all year long, you have no idea what's going on. If you're completely disconnected to social media and forums and that, if you're just going to take a

person out to the woods and just be like, hey, go find a bear in August 15th, you're going to have a little bit of trouble there because you don't know what's going on. You don't know where you need to be focusing on. Should I be high right now? Should I be low right now? Where do I need to focus my time and energy on? So I think it's a benefit to be out and kind of understand the ecosystems, learn the berries, when they're going to kick off,

keep your eye on the snow lines and elevation lines. You're just helping yourself out. You're keeping so many more tools in your toolbox. It's going to help you be successful. So even like, let's just say you don't have a big bear hunt planned until, you know, September 1st, Labor Day weekend, you could still get out and kind of check berries, check snow lines and glass. If you signed a bear, awesome. You know, even better. You might even find a bear like last weekend, a buddy of mine, Austin found a bear at, you know,

6,400 feet and he was just on grass. The blueberries weren't ripe yet. The huckleberries weren't ripe yet. He was just there on grass. Probably not going to stick around very long. Would be a very hard bear to stalk and shoot if that commute was going to be, you know, three plus hours long. He's going to be gone by then. But once you find them stationary on that food source, which is huckleberries, blueberries, and there's all sorts of different species of blueberries like you're talking about.

And they're going to be kicking off at different times, you know, closer, smaller to the ground that snows on them for a lot longer if they're only six inches tall. And I know exactly what you're talking about. Those blueberries are the best. They're like, they taste the best. They're the sweetest. I'm just imagine.

If that snow is just on them for that much longer, because they're only six inches off the ground, that snowpack is going to be there until July at 7,200 feet, maybe even, you know, July 15th or something. And then as you move to that berry bush, the Saskatoon that's eight feet tall, that's exposed by March, you know, so that causes ripeness to be all over the place. Yep. Yep. No, I...

Food source is, is by far the most important. And, um, it's, it's pretty easy. You just have to figure out what elevation they're on. Um, you know, I would say that 1%, what I've seen in the fall is, you know, more avalanche shoot steep stuff. They might be eating on like the brush that's on the edge, but I would never focus my hunt on like avalanche shoots or stuff like that to try to find a bear. Like you're better off figuring out, um,

um, the elevation of the berries and one tip or tactic, whether they like it or not is, um, people that like to hike all of our mountain trails will do hiking reports to let you know where they found berries and what point of the trail. And you're like, all right, I can quickly get jump on Northwest hiker, uh,

and figure out who hiked what trail. It might not be in the same area, but it might be a general area where I'm like, oh, they're eating berries at 4,800 feet because they like to do berry reports. And so you can get some good information without leaving your seat.

Oh, absolutely, man. There's all combined with e-scouting and, and, uh, WTA Washington trails association, Northwest hiker. You can just go to a berry port because they love to tell everybody about their berries that they ate and they'll take pictures of them and stuff. And you're like, great. I can research that trail. Let's just say it's the Phelps trail. You research that trail and be like, Oh, it starts at 38 and it,

you know, the peak they hiked to was at 51. There was berries three quarters away to the top. Now you got some ammo in your pocket without leaving your seat. So you can be really effective and just be kind of squirrely, you know, look, you use all your resources and, and I'm absolutely guilty of that. If I want to learn a new trail system, I can go to that trail on there and then go through the history reports and be like, Hey, there's berries here. All right. That, that trail might be worth checking out. And then you drop a pin and go check it out in the summers.

see if they, you know, Oh man, that's going to be a book, a nice big basin full of berries one day or, you know, in the fall. So absolutely, man, it's a great tip. We've talked about that tons of times. Yep. And then using e-scouting, um, to find food sources. A lot of times if you're, if you're good at Google, um, you know, when I'm looking for elk hunting, like I'm like, man, I do not want to walk through that brush hole, right? Like that's, that's brush versus this is clean Alpine versus this is a, this is, you know, false Alpine. It's really just a big brushy pile. Um,

That's where you want to try to focus on. Can you glass into that? Where are the bears going to be visible? That's where avalanche shoots do kind of come in. I love Barry...

that are at a berry, but then are broken up by vertical lines because those bears have to, you know, they will expose themselves in them. And so you can look at some of that once you know what you're looking at on e-scouting, whatever you're using, you know, Google Earth, whatever mapping software, and you'll be able to start to see different bands of berries or bush type. And you're going to keep that in mind as well. And then once again, if you go back to hiking websites, they've damn near covered every square inch of

of these forests and you can usually get like a picture across the Canyon and like, all right, that time of year, like what's that look like from this point? And is that going to be a good spot to glass for bears? Absolutely, man. And, and I've done loads of this. I've done videos on it and just kind of testing myself, you know, I'll e-scout a spot first. Um, there's all sorts of different tools and stuff you can use. Onyx has stuff, you know, GoHunt has stuff. Um, Google earth has stuff. You can use all these kinds of different imagery sources. Um,

But what I like to play around with is just historical imagery on GoHunt where you can kind of go back years and stuff as well and check dates and exact dates that you're looking for and then go back in there and previously look at the year to year. And then you can just correlate it to this year and you can see if it was a drought. I'm going to go back to 2016 because let's just say 2023, we're expecting a drought. Go back to your last drought year, like in the North Cascades, we had a pretty bad drought in 2015. I know that because I was in there. And then

I'm going to go back to 2015 and then I'm going to look at the drought year. And then you can just go to the exact dates that you're looking to go hunting and just pick it apart and see that, oh my gosh, in that drought year, the berries were ripe here. Berries were ripe here, here. And you start dropping pins on these basins that are going to be ripe. And I think e-scouting is super effective. It's never as effective as getting your boots on the ground and getting out there. That being said, we've found...

dozens of trailheads and, and, and dozens of trails and basins and, and places that we have found and harvested bears on because of being effective on the computer and e-scouting. Um,

I don't know really. What's one of your favorite tools for e-scouting? What's your trick for bears? Do you have anything specifically for bears that you like to use? Not really. I mean, I just, so I always relate it back to spots. You know, I grew up hunting the goat rocks. Like that was my intro to high mountain stuff. And so like, where did we see him at what times? And then I kind of relate that back. Like, does that brush look similar?

Um, you know, trying to figure out where the snow lines at, but, you know, we still have snow in the goat rocks in some places, but it's really just trying to time those berries. Like as much as I would love to, to e-scout, you just have to figure out on the ground, like where those berries are at, at that time. And that's elevation you need to hunt.

And if you need to hunt at that elevation, I start to look at basins that are a little more open at that elevation or where, you know, because one basin maybe have timber at that level, but then a different basin, you know, three more to the north might be berries at that elevation. So I'm really just trying to put myself into a spot where I'm going to be at the right elevation, but can still see. Yeah. And...

I don't think there's any way to just replace the glassing berry bowls that you know are berry bowls. Once you know that there's a food source in there that the bears are going to be on, whether it be from previous years past experience, whether it be a trail report for someone saying there's berries on there, or just firsthand knowledge of you hiking up in there, checking berries and verifying that there's berries in that basin, sitting back and glassing that basin, there's going to be a bear that roams in there. Almost...

I would almost say to guarantee that if you have a berry basin, that eventually you're going to find a bear in there. So just kind of knowing these things, whether it be from, like we said, you know, trail reports, e-scouting, or your boots on the ground work, find the berries. That's really the ticket here. Yeah, yeah.

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Let's touch on terrain a little bit. We've hammered this home that food sources are really what they're after. And terrain is just like a secondary. But I like to personally hunt steeper terrain. What type of terrain do you like to hunt and how come?

You know, I'm all over the, I'm all over the board here. So as we, as we progress early season, um, I can find myself on, on some, on some trails, hiking trails that are next to creeks and rivers, just because they're the first ones to ripen up. So I'm not really picky or I'm not going to be, you know, I only hunt steep or I only hunt flat. I only hunt

mild. I'm just kind of going where the bears are going to be. And in the early season, that tends to be a little bit more flatter down in the basins, down in the bottoms, excuse me, not basins, but drainages where you got creeks and rivers and stuff like that, because that's going to be kind of ripe and first. And as we move up, as we progress through the season, we'll kind of move into that mild terrain. And I have

I kind of have my elevator, um, I mean, of spots where I'm down at the bottom in August 1st. And then we kind of just progress, you know, two, three, four, 500 feet per week, 500 feet, 500 feet a week. It seems to be a little bit accurate, especially if you get these super hot days, like we're experiencing now where weekend to weekend, we're just kind of trickling that 500 feet until we get to labor day. And by labor day, you're at the tops, you're at 7,000

Most of the time you're at 68, you know, 7,072, um, towards those tops where you're going to see bears on berries up at the tops of those peaks and the North Cascades as that's our top. So if you're listening from other States, that's our top. So that's probably not that city, you know, for Colorado and stuff, but those are our tops.

Um, but yeah, as the, as the season progresses, I'm just going with him. My favorite time of the year is that labor time, Labor Day timeframe. And they do tend to be on that super steep terrain where the, the huckleberries, the blueberries are really, really thick and they just don't move. They stand in those fields and they're just vacuuming them up. Um, you might catch them, you know, going down into the timber to take a little nap in the shade and then they will come back.

You know, they'll come right back out into a berry patch if they have a good food source, if they're feeling secure, they're not being buggered up. You know, they're not hearing humans hollering and stuff like that, which sometimes on trails that we use, you know, popular trails, they do. So when humans start active, you know, start actively the sun's up and they start moving down these trails, those bales or go those bears, excuse me.

We'll go tuck away. And then once the hikers are done for the day, they'll come back out in the evening and they'll just vacuum all night for, you know, 12 hours or whatever. But yeah, it just really depends. Like I'm not picky. I'll just be wherever they are and I'll just kind of follow that berry, that berry line, if you will, up the elevation as soon as, as it starts ripening up high, I'm moving up high with them.

Yep. No, I, I'm, I agree. You got to hunt where the bears are at, which is so cliche. We say that all the time, but, um, you got to hunt where the bears are. I just like, if I'm going to go to a spot, the steeper, the better. Um, it seems like they can't hide as much, you know, the flatter that face is across the Canyon from me or across the finger ridge from me, like the better chance I, I, you know, maybe it's just a confidence level. I know I've seen a bear if it was there. Right.

versus, you know, if it's flat or rolly, there's a lot more spots to hide and I'm less confident. I'm less, you know, confident to move because I don't want to leave a bear to go somewhere else. But if it's steep, there's a very slim chance that that thing is able to hide from me.

Absolutely, man. I totally agree with you and kind of didn't really think about that, just kind of giving them hidey spots. If there's folds, if it's kind of steep and then it kind of peters out and gives them a nice little bench, they could be on that bench for, like we just said, 12 hours and you'd never see them. So the steeper the country kind of does make it easier and kind of just going back through my pocketbook of spots, it's primarily steep spots in that September timeframe, late August, early September. The steeper, the better for us and it's probably –

has something to do with that where they don't have any kind of folds and stuff to, to get away from and, and to, to hide into. Um, but that time of year, they're just, they're out for so long. You feel comfortable that if you're looking at a hillside for 10, 15 minutes, you're going to catch a glimpse. Cause yeah, they're, they're always moving. They might be in a little fold or a roll or something, but for the most part, they're kind of just, you know, motoring around within a 20 feet circle or something, you know? Yep.

Yep. So what do you think about water when it comes to, uh, fall bear hunting? Um, do you place yourself around water? Do you not pay any attention? Is it a requirement? Like, what do you, how does water, uh, enter the equation for, for fall bear for you?

I think maybe a little bit earlier when it's scorching hot, they might want to be, you might want to focus a little bit closer to water. But I mean, I've never prioritized that. And I'm just being 100% honest, never prioritized it, never made sure I'm in a basin with water. But in the North Cascades, in Washington State, water is plentiful.

You know, on a trail system that we use, that one I keep going back to and I mentioned earlier in the podcast where we saw 13 in a day, there is no water source for us. They might have some in the basins that we don't know of, but on these trail systems that we're motoring in on, we have to carry, you know,

I carry two 48 now jeans and then a 32. So we're going in with over a hundred ounces of water. So going in, you just know that it's going to be a hot one. It's going to be scorcher and we're not getting water on this trail. So I don't necessarily know if that, I would imagine that the bears are going to have them, the bears that we're seeing, they have some that they know where to go to, but up in, they prioritize food over, over water as well. So they'll travel to it. They'll travel to it. I'm sure. But no, speaking of water,

Me personally, I don't prioritize it in the fall in college.

Yeah. Don't prioritize it. I don't either. And I don't know if it's a product or a by-product of us both being from the Pacific Northwest where I have fall bear hunted is there's water in every drainage. Exactly. We've got, we've got, you know, we always have great like moisture recoup, you know, every night, like the ground, even when it's in the middle of summer, the ground is going to be damp when you wake up. Now, I don't know whether it's like the deer versus elk conversation where a deer can get the moisture out of the food they eat.

versus an elk needs to go to water. I'm unsure on bear, but yeah, I don't think at least the places I've seen bears start the day and where they end the day, like, all right, I watch that bear for whatever, 14 hours and the thing never had to go get water. Is it going there in the middle of the night? But

Yeah, I think some when you're listening outside of Washington, you may have a little different situation. And I do know that they will require water daily, especially in the hot temperatures. So water may play an important part, but here in Washington, not so much.

Absolutely. And like you touched on, I'm right there with you. Everything's got water in Washington, especially the Alpine basins. And everything that we've gone down to and killed bears and packed out, we'll find little puddles or a trickle or something like that. But last year, the bear that I actually kind of goofed up on, he was at least...

1,800 feet down from water, or excuse me, he was up 1,800, 2,000 feet from the nearest water source. But at, you know, for an animal, a bear, that's nothing. They're going to just bail down in the middle of the night, go get some water, and then kind of come right back up to that food. And that one I'm pretty certain because, you know, I was on a, it was just a crazy spot to be in, but that bear was completely exposed. Rocky shale cliffs, and then just right in the middle of the rocky shale cliffs, it was just this berry patch that he saw.

I never would have expected to see a bear there, but I did and, uh, ended up shooting at him. I guess missed him. Uh, crazy turn of events. Um, but that bear was completely away from water. So, um,

I don't prioritize it. You know, they're going to, they're going to prioritize food over it and then they're going to go travel to their little honey hole of water that they, that they know where to find it. So I don't think if you're looking at maps, you need to be like, Oh, I need to, I need to have water in a basin. I don't think that's going to ring true to us. Um, but I could be wrong. I've just never prioritized it. Yep.

Um, how do you, how does weather, um, you know, we, once again, coming back to Washington, we get some crazy weather, even in the, in the, you know, the summer, early fall. Absolutely. And, uh, how do you, how does the weather affect your hunts? Um, what have you found, you know, rain storms, heat, the, how does that affect it?

Um, I, I, I personally think it affects us more than it affects them. Obviously they're wild animals. They don't, they don't really care. They, they live through it year round. We don't, um, yeah, it might suck when you got a thunderstorm and it's in, it's dumping rain on you. Um, but I don't really necessarily think they do cause I've seen them out in, in it, you know, uh, last year I had actually filmed my wife on her first bear hunt and we were watching this bear, um,

almost shot it, and then a cub came out from behind it. And there was thunder and lightning raining, and that bear just didn't care. They're just standing right there on top of us. Yeah, we were like maybe two minutes before the storm really got it going, and it was on top of our head. But we're in this big drainage. Thunder and lightning was cracking and going, and they were just still out feeding. So they're just going to do animal stuff. And as far as the heat goes,

It doesn't seem to bother him. I filmed a bear midday, 2 o'clock in the afternoon. Me and my wife are in the shade, and I just watched this bear cruise in this hillside, eating, eating, eating, and then kind of comes down, goes through the creek, didn't stop the drink, just goes right through it, and then just goes back to feeding. And it had to have been 100 plus, triple digits for sure. It was the same day that we ended up harvesting her baby.

her super cool bear. And she shot it at, you know, three in the clock in the afternoon. So again, a hundred degrees. And he did not stop eating from the moment I saw him, um, at like seven in the morning all the way until when she killed him, um, at like three in the afternoon. So just after everything kind of lined up and we kind of got a shot going for him, we watched him feed,

August had to have been 4th or 5th. August 4th or 5th, 100 degrees outside and they don't stop. Obviously, if they need to, they will, but I don't think when they're on food sources and they're doing what they have to do, the weather doesn't bother them. That's just my opinion. I agree. Spring bear get bothered a little bit more by rain. They seem to kind of tuck in. I think fall bear that we've seen, they'll ride out a weather storm, but I still feel like

So just following maybe a rain event, if you get one of those fall rain events, like the backside, if you got some good weather on the backside, like that's the best time to be out there. They just seem to be on their feet there. They're just on their feet more out in the open. Maybe they don't want to get as wet in the brush. So they seem to kind of get out in the open and back to that food source and kind of stick out a little bit more.

Absolutely. And I think maybe something to do with that is that the duration of those storms could vary so much differently from spring. That thing can last hours, as you know, been caught in one and have to ride it out. Then to the fall, you could have thunder and lightning pouring down rain one minute.

And literally five minutes later, it's blue sky again. So I think maybe they just like, oh, I'm just going to keep doing my thing. This one might not last long. It's going to pass quickly. But I've been through them. I've been through hailstorms, thunder, lightning, you know, 100 degree heat and been watching bears and all of that, all those weathers, those weather kind of variations. And I really, truly don't think that it bothers them at all. It's going to bother us more if you're getting soaked or getting hailed on. Yeah, for sure. So moral of the story, Hunt.

hunt through all weather, um, which kind of comes as a good segue into the next question. What time of day? And so we're dealing, when we're talking fall bear, we're talking August to all the way to the beginning of November when our season's finally closed down here. Um, what time of day, uh, are you hunting or you, or do you find the most productive?

throughout that time. You're not going to like this and not many listeners are, but I'm going to say first light. And it kills me to say it because in August, I can sleep, man. I could sleep you around. I could be a bear. But in August, you got to be up at 4.30 and especially if you got to travel to a glassing knob

But that's, you know, on weekends and stuff, you go to work and you get up early and the blue collar guys are up early all week. And then you got to a weekend and you're like, yeah, I would like to sleep in. But when fall bear, man, like you just can't do it. And that's just like the truth, bottom of my heart, you got to be up glassing at first light. They're so active and time and time and time again, I've harvested majority of the bears in the first thing in the morning. They're going to be active throughout the day, but if you really want to catch them

especially in that September when they're up in those blueberries, they're going to feed out from that. They're mostly active at night. Actually, in that time of year, they're active throughout the day. But if you really catch them...

Jason, I'll sort my answer up. First light. I'm a first light guy. Right in the first thing in the morning, man. My favorite time. Absolutely. I think you catch those bigger bears out maybe in the middle. But with that said, any time during the fall can produce. And so if you're out there targeting bear, you just need to hunt all day. But yeah, I think morning is just...

is prime and then around home where it's like industrial Timberlands, my absolute favorite time to be out there is in the evening, right. As the shade starts to hit clear cuts, like, you know, when you'd expect deer and elk to start coming back out, like that transition from it being too damn hot to just starting to cool off. It seems as like when we pick up the majority of like the, the Timberland bears. Yeah. That's good. That's good to know. That's, you know, I don't hunt really the Timberland stuff. Um,

But from the experience that we like, just the first light thing, just kind of majority of the bears get spotted. And, but like you said, they're, they're, they're active throughout the entire day. Back to that story where I said, I watched that bear for 14 hours last year. Like I can go back and look at the phone scope footage.

and it's like 5 47 in the morning where he's you know stationary in that spot i first bought him and then when the phone scope footage of me killing him is like 8 15 at night so yeah you didn't have to wake up at daylight to go spot that bear because he didn't move um but we have seen bears that you know you catch at first light and then they're slipping into the timber at seven to go take a four hour nap you might not have known that was there if you you know slept in a little bit but

I'm gonna I'm gonna stick to the to the guns there and just say like we prefer in that North Cascade stuff that you're gonna see a majority of the activity um right at first light at least most of the bears are gonna be out and then yeah you might slip them into the timber and take a nap and of course they can come back out so just check some balances there I prefer the morning

And then kind of our last question, my last question for you, do you any calling for bears in the fall? And I'm going to play, I have to ask the call question just because it's, it's my job, but I'm curious what you do as far as running a call in the fall. Yeah. So there's, I mean, if you want to do the call stuff, I got to tug the, I got to, you know, plug the old Doug bows. He's a Washington resident too. You've had him on the podcast. Just awesome dude. He's got a phone call app. He not to take away from your business, Jason, yours are the best. Yeah.

But he's got an app that you can use and run those predator calls just on a Bluetooth speaker. But I did run your predator distress call last season. I always keep it in my binal harness after kind of like the lampers in on the spring stuff. He kind of mentioned that he keeps one in there and maybe not just to actually call him in, but to get him to stop or to get him to come back out of the timber. I think it's a it's a genius idea. So I adopted that and I actually got to use it last year. So

to answer your question. No, I'm not going to do a calling, you know, set for a bear just cause I've, I have, I don't have experience with it, but Doug's going to give you a different answer. Um, Doug's, he's got a book on it and he's got an app. Um, so he's, he's found it very effective. Me personally, in our experience, we've never done like a calling sequence or a stand specifically to call a bear into us. Um,

But I have used it now to get a bear to stand up like I was talking about. And we have it on film. You guys can go watch it. I'm just ripping on this predator call to even get this bear to acknowledge me to stand up, to take four steps out into the open. But he just wouldn't do it. He's just like looking right down at the call.

I'm on the rifle. I'm on, I'm ready to take a step. If he just took a step, I could smoke him. Um, but he's just behind this big boulder and you could just see his head and he's just panting like a dog, just tongue out. He's just panting. And then his head would go down and I'm like, Zach, what are we going to do? I'm not going to, I'm getting fried right here. You know, it's August, August six or something. And you know,

nine in the morning at this point. And we're just on this bear. We've watched him for a half hour or so and just kind of get him to get a shot. And so Zach's like, I'm going to rip on the call. So I'll toss him my call and he just rips and rips. And the footage is crazy because his head would just pop up and he'd just look down at us and he'd just go back to panting. And then after two seconds of the call, he'd just lay back down. And then we're like, okay, let's try it again in five minutes. The same thing. He'd just lift his head up and then he'd pant.

And then when he started moving, we thought he was going to like come down and check us out. Nope. Opposite direction goes away from the predator, go away from the call and, and just into the timber some more and ended up giving me a shot and was able to harvest that bear. But, um, just to plug back the, the food source that we've just really prioritized in this whole podcast episode. Um, once they're on a, on a food source and they're happy, I don't really think that there's much you can do to pull them away from that.

especially if they've been feeding for 10, 8 hours and they're just plump, full of berries. They're pretty happy campers. And maybe if you caught them, like if Washington State had, I'm sure spring bear hunting predator calls are very, very useful. But as far as my experience goes, in the fall, when you have these bears that are on a solid food source of berries or of huckleberries or whatever it may be,

it's going to take some real hard work and a really curious bear to pull them out of that, to go down and look for a rabbit. You know, that's, that's my opinion. And that, that's where it really comes down. Like for me as being an efficient hunter, um, I feel like your time is way better utilized hiking and looking into those berries sources and setting up for 35 to 45 minutes calling in an area. Because as you said, these bears are,

are no longer wanting to chase their food. It's sitting on a vine where they don't have to move. They don't have to chase it. They don't have to expend any energy. Um, but with that said, we do have, we have quite a few buddies, you know, around home are fall bear hunting or any hunting around here is your typical, you pull up to a landing, you walk off the edge and you glass, right? But a lot of times when you're there, you can hear something break and brush down below us. And I've had multiple buddies in the last couple of years, just like calf distress call. And they've all killed bears like right off the landing. So it's,

I would say if there's no other option or if it's available to you or if it's a good setup, there's no harm to be done. It can still be very effective. But I just feel like if I'm in the mountains where there are berries on and the bears know that the berries are on, I'm better off spending my time and effort getting to there and glassing. Yeah, I have to...

fully agree with you, man. It's, and, and just from firsthand experience now, that bear absolutely wanted nothing to do with us. Um, and we were sounding pretty juicy with that call. I may add, it's pretty good, you know, but he just, he wasn't having it, man. He just didn't, didn't care, didn't have a care in the world, could care less about us just ripping down there. And we sounded like a nice juicy rabbit or whatever that thing's supposed to be, but it

Didn't want it, man. Oh, that's funny. So, no, Jeff, thanks a lot for coming on here. Tell everybody how they can find out more of what you got going on and adventures you're taking on.

Yeah, man. Appreciate you having me first and foremost. Appreciate your friendship and all you've done for us and just what you've allowed me to text you and answer my stupid questions on any given day. So I really appreciate that, man. I appreciate this chance to come on the show, but you can find anything PNWild at pnwild.com. PNWild has a YouTube channel releasing a lot of cool hunts. And we did a Wyoming elk hunt and Montana deer hunt that's on our YouTube channel now. And so you can find us on YouTube. And then of course, on all your social media platforms, Facebook and Instagram and

primarily just our website, PNWall.com. You can find all that information. So appreciate it, man. Yeah. I appreciate having you on. Thanks for sharing all your black bear knowledge, fall and then good luck out there. I know you're probably chomping to get out there and chase one down. So good luck on all your adventures. Yes. You too, man. Right around the corner. Can't wait. Have a good season guys. Appreciate it. Take care.

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