Ep. 111: Dirk's Oregon Blues Elk Hunt Recap
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And we're back with another episode of Cutting the Distance podcast. I'm the host, Dirk Durham, today, and I'm in the beautiful Blue Mountains of Oregon, Northeastern Oregon, if you will.

I've got my buddy Derek Miller, who is an owner-operator of an outfitting business here in Oregon. And some of the big three units, elk units in Oregon. How many units do you guide in here? I'm permitted to operate in all of the big three, but I primarily operate in Mount Emily and Wanaha. Okay. Yeah. Nice. Nice. We just wrapped up a...

Like a once-in-a-lifetime type of elk hunt for me here in Oregon, here in one of those big three units. I don't know if do we want to tell people where it's at or they'll probably figure it out, but I always like to leave a little mystery. Yeah, it doesn't matter to me. The availability of tags is so small that it doesn't really matter. Right, right. Well, yeah.

I had the opportunity to come hunt with Derek through the Outfitter Tag Program. So the outfitters apply for an opportunity to draw

a tag, one tag in these units. Tell us how that works. So licensed outfitters in Oregon can apply for non-resident outfitter tags in the big three. And if you're, if you're issued one of those tags, if you're lucky enough to draw it, then they'll issue a forest service will issue you a operating permit for that hunt. I happen to have a

priority permit on part of that national forest and a temporary permit year-to-year permit on the rest of it so yeah that's how it works and then I was able to have the opportunity to buy that tag it's it's crazy you know some people kind of poopoo on that idea which I kind of get you know it's

And there's a lot of folks who will spend 20 plus years applying as a resident in this state, trying to draw a tag. And, and it's probably a little disheartening for them when some jerk like me comes along and buys a tag. But, you know, this is, you know, the state, the state does this, they allow it. Somebody's going to buy the tag and, and, and,

By golly, this time it's just a good old kid from Weeip that I would have never thought in a million years I'd ever be able to hunt this unit. So I'm super thankful and fortunate to come here. But man, I've been really looking forward to this hunt all summer. You've sent me pictures of some big bulls you've been scouting. And then in September hit and you had some cool bulls.

um, videos on from, from trail cameras of bulls on wallows, bugling and stuff. And that's really cool. Um, I'm just, I'm just wondering, um, what, what is your normal, uh,

What's your normal client base look like? Is it, you know, I feel like some people get this idea that like, oh, they, somebody went with an outfitter. Um, they're, they must not be a good hunter or, oh, they should have just did that theirself or, oh, outfitted hunt. Not for me. I don't want to even hear about it. Right. But I feel like.

There's some weird misconceptions about who actually will book a hunt with an outfitter. Right. In the big three, it's kind of a unique situation because it takes so long to draw. And the average age of a hunter that draws the big three, because it takes 20 plus years to draw, is probably 50 and above. So the age demographic is probably 50 to 70 years.

on average. Those are the guys that are typically booking hunts. The guy that's 20 to 30, he still thinks he can do it on his own, which he can. There's no reason that he can't do it on his own. But we all know as we get older, we have physical limitations and time limitations. So the average guy is going to be 50 to 70. He's probably either retired or a business owner.

uh he has the disposable income to hire an outfitter he doesn't have a lot of excess time to come and scout like you would want to for a 25 year tag to do that tag justice and do your due diligence to find yourself a bull so he's probably the average most they're all of them are hunters of one type or another all different skill levels there's some really experienced hunters and there's some that have never killed a bull the vast majority

vast majority of my clients have probably never killed a mature bull. They may have spike hunted or cow hunted or whatever, but they've never killed a mature bull anyway. So it's not that they're new hunters. It's just that in Oregon, our opportunities are somewhat limited to hunt big bulls. We don't have a ton of units that have them and the ones that do have them, it takes a bit to draw a tag. So

The average hunter just wants to maximize what he's got. It took him 25 years to get the tag and he doesn't want to waste it. So he hires a guide. And the benefits of the guide are, there's a lot of them, but the guide knows the country better than you'll ever know it. Even though you may have friends that have hunted it with friends or whatever, the guides are hunting that every single year, three.

two months out of the year between archery season and rifle season. So they're just, they're familiar with the unit in ways that most people aren't. It also, you know, maybe they don't have the equipment. It's late season. We can end up with a lot of snow. Transportation can be an issue. So sometimes it's equipment they don't have. Sometimes it's the time they don't have the scout.

Sometimes it's maybe the knowledge. They don't feel like they have enough knowledge to kill a bull that they've been waiting 20 years to kill. So there's a lot of reasons. I've found very rarely it's because the person is inept. It's just they've weighed the odds and they think that their odds are stacked better with help.

Absolutely. Well, one thing I've kind of noticed over the years is when some people draw a really hard to get tag, whether it's Oregon or Idaho or Utah or wherever, they may have a network of friends that like are like, hey, I want to go along and help.

But not everybody has a network of friends that want to or can. Some of us, our friends just, they work. They can't get off the time. And a lot of times when you draw the tag, you have a whole bunch of people that want to help. But as the time approaches, they can't get time off. Or life happens like it does for all of us. And some of those guys find out that they're going to be on their own. Or maybe they have one or two friends. But if you're 50 to 70, your friends are mostly 50 to 70. And so they may not be there.

quite the help you need. Right. So, right. Yeah. And there, you know, it's nothing beats boots on the ground. Somebody that's been in the unit a lot and familiar with the area, the, and the areas that help frequent and, you know, it's, it sure saves a lot of legwork. Definitely. Yeah. It's nice that you can on day one, because it takes over 20 years to draw the tag. Most people haven't scouted the unit and they think they're going to scout the unit in the months leading up, but it's,

They don't. Either they don't because of time constraints or even when they do, where the elk are in June and July and August and September, they probably aren't going to be in November. So it's kind of you're scouting country but not really scouting elk. And so...

It's also nice that on day one you hit the ground running. We've all gone places where we're not familiar with really a new place. We're kind of going in blind maybe with some scouting, but how many days do you spend just kind of get the feel of the country? And this way you don't have to. Your guide's already been there. He's probably been there. Hopefully he's been there in the days right prior to your hunt. So he already has elk spotted. We knew exactly where we were going.

This morning, we knew exactly where we were going. We had videos of elk that we wanted to kill from less than 24 hours ago. So I think there's some real benefits to it. And it's not that a guy can't do that. I'm not saying that they can't do it on their own. They can, but sometimes, and for certain people, I think it's just a better option if you have the ability to do it. Right.

Right. Or when it comes to like getting an animal out, you know, let's say once you're successful, I mean, an elk is a big animal and these canyons are pretty steep and rugged here. And, and a lot of folks, you know, it's, it's going to be a big burden to get it out. And, and, you know, especially if you're DIY do it yourself and you may not have that again, that, that safety rope or network of friends, or maybe all your friends are back home, you know, eight hours from here and they just can't run over to help you pack out an elk. Right.

man, it sure is nice to, you know, have. Yeah. A group of guys right there that can just throw it on their back and get out. Yeah. Make a one trip pack out and it's done. And man, it's, it's fun. Yeah. It's really, it's really fun. It makes it a lot more enjoyable. There's something to be said for the suffering of packing a bull out over several days by yourself. Um,

but there's also something to be said for getting it done and sitting around camp, just visiting for a few hours afterwards too. Oh yeah, definitely. It's both ways are great. So my expectations when I came on this hunt, um, I've, I've always tempered my expectations for all hunting. Cause I've been hunting for 35 years, you know, do it yourself type hunting. So I understand what hunting is about, you know,

of course you're going to set your sights on the biggest animal you can possibly find. And, and we would all like to go home with that three 50 or three 80 or whatever number type of bowl, or just maybe just, I want a big heavy six point or whatever. Um, so coming into this hunt, um, I always try to like temper my expectations. I didn't have a number set on a bowl. I just, I wanted to shoot a, a, a big,

beautiful bowl. Um, I didn't care if it was a perfect six. I didn't care if it was a lopsided seven by eight, like, you know, with weird points. I didn't really care. I just wanted a cool, um, opportunity, a cool bowl that I, I, that I liked when I seen it. And, um, sometimes, um,

You find those on the first day. Sometimes a guy don't find those at all in a season. Um, or maybe you find them on the last day, but, uh, today, man, we, the, the elk gods smiled on us. They put one right in front of us. We'd, we'd done a little bit of due diligence the night before and spotted a really nice seven by eight. And I'm like, oh man, I want that thing. And, but yeah,

I know hunting and I, I just know how it works to where, um, just because you see one the night before and they're in, and, and you guys have been watching him for a, for a day or two. And it's like, it doesn't mean it's a gimme tomorrow morning that Elker, they have their own free will. Seeing elk and killing elk is two different things entirely. Yeah. Yep. And then you have, you have some other things in the equation. We're not out here. Just, this is not like,

an exclusive private land place, you know, there are a few

uh, mature bull tags, you know, branch bull tags, but there's a lot of spike hunters out hunting. So, you know, it's public land. So we're going to out, we're going to be out here competing with those guys. And, you know, we always hope and that everyone's going to be respectful because we're going to be respectful, but sometimes you just never know what could happen to, it could, you know, we could have the whole hillside to ourself. We could be sharing it with 20 other people. Right. So,

I just kind of tempered my expectations. Like, I just want to have a really fun hunt. I've never hunted here for myself before. I got to hunt this area with Jason Phelps here in 2021 and enjoyed it. And I thought it was a really cool experience. And I just thought, you know, I just want to have a good time and see lots of elk and see lots of bulls. And maybe I'll get fortunate enough to get a nice one that I want to shoot within range. Right. And I think...

I think people should temper their expectation. We all, I had one aha in 2018 and, and of course I had high expectations, but as you go into the hunt, you,

when you're thinking about it, you're only thinking about the end result. I'm going to kill a 350 bull or 360 or whatever your number is, but you don't realize. And we talked about it last night when we saw that seven by eight bull. And we're like, we pretty much had that thing already on our backs at that point. We were like, this is going to happen. He's going to go on the wall, right? Yeah. But then you start to realize, and then like, I think I said,

anything can happen. Oh yeah. Like we start to get these wild card things that come up and like last night we're watching that bull and all of a sudden there's other people that hadn't seen the bull, but just kind of showed up randomly looking like they're doing the same that we were when we found the bull. And so now you've got other DIY hunters with branch bull tags that are watching the same bull. And like you said, there was so,

Sometimes people are respectful. Sometimes they're not. We had spike hunters roll in on us this morning, like walk right up next to us while we're glassing for the bull. That was a wild card. We had wind. We had snow. We had fog. There's all these wild cards that come in that you don't really think about. And those are the ones that kind of beat you down mentally to where...

a guy will either settle for something way less than they wanted or quit. The success rate is high in these units, but it's not 100%, even though there's a lot of elk. And I think really my favorite clients are the ones that say, well, I've never killed a big bull. I've never killed a bull or I've killed a bull, a 300 inch bull. And so they just want that to be the best bull of their life. And

It's not that I don't think they can do better than that goal, but that's a realistic goal. And you'll never feel shorted if you can achieve that goal. Or maybe they just want to kill a mature bull. That bull you killed was a mature bull, beautiful bull. It wasn't a seven by eight. No. But it's a beautiful bull. There's nothing wrong with that bull. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I think it is important to temper your expectations with reality. And if you talk to people that hunt the unit,

a lot frequently guides or other people, you'll realize that there's not three 80 bulls around every tree. You're not going to see three 50 bulls every day or even every week. Right. And so,

And weather is huge too. You know, the first week we generally have pretty good weather. And in the area that we're hunting the first week, there's no snow and the elk are still here. But by next week, if we've got a foot of snow or six, eight inches of snow, these elk are gone. And so sometimes you shoot the elk that's in front of you.

If you like the bull instead of waiting and trying to hold out and getting greedy. And then, you know, later in the week it snows and there's nothing. And so you've kind of shot yourself in the foot over some pride. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. And this is a short hunt. This is a five day hunt. You know, it's not like we have two weeks to, to, to enjoy these mountains and turn over every rock and, and just be choosy and super choosy. So I thought, you know,

With everything considered, a lot of hunters around, with weather coming in. It's snowing right now. Yeah, you guys may hear the wind and we got the generator going and it's snowing outside now. Like it could snow a couple inches tonight. It could snow a foot. It could. Yeah. You just don't know what the weather's going to be. We don't know what that's going to be. But we do know it's going to affect the elk. Yeah.

one way or another and probably not in our favor. Um, and a lot of times it, well, I was just glad like where we pack, pack this bull out. If I can't imagine if that had been snow on the ground that we'd have had, it'd have been dangerous. Like it was dangerous. And I carry, I carry a couple of pair of crampons that I can give guys that are like one inch crampons, regular mountaineering crampons. And those help immensely on that really slick frozen ground. But luckily we didn't need it, but yeah. Yeah. Thank goodness. Yeah.

But, uh, anyway, I was able to, to make a good shot. You know, we had some pretty gusty winds this morning. Um, and then right at when the shot was, when I was able to take that shot, the wind kind of switched to be kind of blowing right in her face. So, you know, wasn't left or right and made a good shot. And then, um, the,

I hit him pretty good, but I ended up having to make a follow-up shot, which made a okay shot. When I took the follow-up shot, it was really windy then. So, um, you guys will be able to see all this whole, I shouldn't even, I shouldn't even, uh, spoil it because you'll be able to see the video where you have the video come out and we'll let you know when it's out, but, uh, you'll be able to, and if you want to go check out my Instagram, uh,

uh it's the bugler and i'll collaborate with philip's game calls and you'll be able to see the bull on there um the picture of it but he was a beautiful six point um he he was every like i said everybody comes here with stars in their eyes including me it's like you never know you might get a 380 bull yeah that's the attraction to the big three it is is the wild like you never know you never know what might walk out you just don't know what's going to walk out we didn't expect that

seven by eight to be what he was when he walked out last night. Either we had seen him in the timber the day before, but couldn't really see his whole, uh,

frame and everything he had but he was a really cool unique bull that anybody would have shot yeah in that unit yeah and the bull i squeeze the trigger on yeah i'm so happy with him i'm very happy he's a beautiful bull um if i was to draw a picture of a bull in my mind before i came i would probably draw a picture look the shape of antlers like that it's just he's pretty he's he's

Well proportioned. He's symmetrical, which I was kind of laughing last night. I'm like, I, I typically, if you look at my horn pile, I've got some asymmetrical stuff. It's like, not like non-typical. It's just like one side's really good. One side's not so good or one side's a little different. And I thought for sure it was like, oh yeah, I'll probably get that seven by eight, but no, I got a beautiful symmetrical six by six, which was surprising to me. So really pretty bull. Yeah. So that was really fun.

Well, listen, we're going to shift gears here. We're going to do the old Pendleton whiskey question and answer segment. And, uh, first question, um, now this might be a little sensitive and I, and I think a lot of people are thinking it, but not a lot of people are saying it, but why are the costs of guided and outfitted hunts so expensive? You know, there's a wide range.

There's a wide variety of costs for outfitted hunts. Bigger, more established outfitters charge a lot more. They've got a history of maybe killing big bulls. If your goal was to come in here and kill, you know, one of the top five bulls in the unit that people know about, you're going to pay for that opportunity. Oh, yeah. And so those are some things. But it's just like any business. There's costs. Every guy that we have helping us,

whether he's glassing, guiding, cooking, whatever he's doing, that guy's getting paid every day. And I pay my guys for the entire week, whether we hunt one day or whether we hunt a week. And so that's an expense. Our permitting costs money. Forest Service wants their share, insurance, you know, fuel for the rigs, the side-by-side, someone's got to pay for the side-by-side and, you know, hay for the horses all year, even though we use them for a few months out of the year. So,

It just is. It seems like a lot and it is a lot, but you know, if you, if you break it down, it's, it's not, you can, you can justify every expense. It's just unfortunate. It feels even as an outfitter, which is part of why I started outfitting myself because I was working for other outfitters that were charging whatever they were charging. I'm not going to say they were too much, but yeah,

In my mind, I felt like people were being priced out of an outfitted hunt. And I kind of like the idea of just being a regular, like every man's outfitter. And so if I can keep my prices lower, it's not... A lot of people say, raise your price. You need to raise your price. But I just feel like I'm not serving the clientele that I want to serve. I want to serve the guy that maybe had to save five years to go on a hunt, you know, or...

But there's expenses. It's just all expensive. Oh, yeah. The equipment, you know, each camp is $4,000 and it's just everything.

Oh yeah. The tents. You know, how much, how many hundreds of dollars did we spend? Like this hunt was planned for a week. We have food for a week for six people and we hunted one day. Yeah. So it's just expenses, you know? Yeah. And that's not money you get. You just return to the grocery store. Yeah. No, you don't get it back. No. No, no. That's a, that's a great, great answer. Um, which I think, you know, sometimes it's easy to like sit here and pick, pick things apart. Like,

where people like, oh, it must be nice. But like people prioritize in their life what's important to them, right? So one guy might say, oh, it must be nice, but he drives an $80,000 truck. Right. And I drive a truck that's been paid off since 2012. Right. And it's not real pretty. But anyway, you know, that...

everybody has different priorities, you know? Um, people say, like you say, some people save up for a long time. Um, some people, maybe they just have that extra income and like a bonus or something that they can throw on a, a hundred something, which is cool too. But, um, it's like anything I would love to have,

a house with 500 acres, I can't afford it. So it's just out of my reach. And there's going to be things like that in life that are just out of your reach. There's no reason to be jealous or petty about it. It just is what it is. But you shouldn't also fault the guy that owns that or that can afford to go on a guided hunt if that's what he wants to do. Right. I think there's no shame in it. I also think

For some guys that I've hunted, you'll learn more on a guided hunt than you want to admit you're going to learn. But most of the guys that I hunt, especially in archery season, at the end of that hunt, they almost all say, I can't believe how much I learned. And so how much is an education? Not that guides are better than you and you may know more than a guide does, but...

If you're not, if you're a new hunter or fairly new hunter, how much is that education worth? You can cram a lot of learning into five or seven days on the mountain. So I think there's a lot of benefits to, to outfitted and guided hunts. Right. Well, yeah, if, if, if you, maybe you're a new hunter or maybe someone who's struggled for a long time to be successful hunting, um,

You can struggle for years, like learning, making all the mistakes. I know I've made all the mistakes and it takes a long time to figure that stuff out. Right. And it's like, kind of like that shortening the learning curve, really. It's like you, you go somebody with the dude does things right. And, and you pick that stuff up. You're like, oh, wow. I, I was doing this wrong the whole time. I never had an idea that this is a better, a different way to do it, you know? Right. So I've heard that a lot from guys too, that have gone on outfitted hunts. Yeah. I think, I,

I think it's the older you get also, you realize that we all have kind of a finite number of hunts in us. You've got, you know, if you're, if you're really, really lucky, you've got 40 years, 30, 40 years of good hunts, you know, where you're not just sitting on a stump watching for the young guys, you know? And so if you can shorten that learning curve five years, 10 years, that's five or 10 more potentially more successful years of hunting. And so,

It is a good idea. I think it's a good idea if you have the money. Yeah, absolutely. We've all seen plenty of gadgets and fads come and go, but here's one product that stood the test of time. Seafoam motor treatment. Lots of hunters and anglers know that seafoam helps engines run better and last longer.

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The only thing better than a successful hunt is celebrating your feet during the after-the-hunt moment. With a smooth taste made to be enjoyed on the rocks or with your favorite mixer, Pendle and Whiskey is perfect for winding down around the fire or putting your feet up after cleaning your game. If you're looking for the perfect drink to celebrate after a great day hunting,

Make it Pendleton whiskey, the official whiskey of the after the hunt moment. It's not just poured, it's earned. Pendleton Distillers, Lawrenceburg, Indiana. Please drink responsibly. Pendleton is a registered trademark of Pendleton Woolen Mills. You ever get that feeling you're stuck inside staring at screens and a primal urge kicks in? You crave wide open spaces, fresh air, the chance to connect with the land.

Well, maybe it's time to find your own piece of the wild. But searching for property can be a maze. That's where Land.com comes in. They got millions of listings across the country, from mountain ranches to hidden fishing holes. Their search tools are like a seasoned guide helping you narrow down what you want. Land.com isn't just about buying and selling.

It's about finding a place to hunt, fish, explore, or simply sit by a campfire and listen to the crickets. So head over to land.com today to turn one day into today. Because trust me, there's nothing quite like the feeling of standing on your own piece of earth. Okay, here's another question for you. What should a hunter expect on a guided or outfitted hunt? How should they prepare for the hunt? I think what they should expect is

These would be a super basic list. Like if I was going on a guided hunt, I'd never been, but if I was, I would expect a quality camp with quality gear, quality whatever is used in the camp. I want it to be quality. It should be quality gear. I would expect my guide to be knowledgeable, friendly, experienced. He should know the country. He should be in as good or better shape than I am.

And he should be willing. I think a guide should be willing to impart knowledge to the guy that he's hunting with. Like you can't just hunt tight lip because you're afraid you're going to teach him and not get him to come back. You should be teaching those guys. Like we should all do that in our life, but especially in that position. That's what I would expect. I wouldn't expect success.

If that's what you're expecting, that I'm going on a guided hunt, so it's 100%, I'm going to kill something, I think you're misled. And if that's your goal, there's plenty of... There's high fence and private land opportunities where the success rate is really high. But on public land, even in the big three...

It's not as easy as what people think. And so I wouldn't expect success. I would expect, I would hope for opportunity. I wouldn't fault the guide if I didn't have opportunity, but I should see animals also. That's what I would expect. How they can prepare, it's pretty tough to say how they can prepare. Like physically, it's really hard. If you live at sea level or 500 feet, how do you prepare to hunt at 6,000 feet?

And if you have no way to climb 60 degree inclines, how can you prepare for that physically? That's pretty, pretty tough, but there's other things that you can do. And the place where I see guys fail is equipment, personal equipment. Um, there's a lot of examples I could cite boots, uh, clothing, binoculars, those types of things, your own personal hunting gear, backpacks, um,

I know they're paying for a guided hunt, but that's not the time to cheap out on personal gear that's going to really affect the quality of your hunt and the comfort of you during your hunt.

And also some of these, like these guys that draw these tags, they've got 25 years. You know, when you're within four, three, four, five years of drawing that tag, that's a great time to, to be able to start adding some gear to your gearbox, maybe binoculars one year and maybe, you know, boots, clothing, whatever it is that you need. I think gear is one place where guys end up shorting themselves. And ultimately they're the ones that pay. I think,

uh being proficient with your weapon whether it's archery or whether it's a rifle is going to be critical you'll find i've had a lot of guys who when the time came to actually execute the shot they they didn't do their part and they were like almost heartbroken i thought they were heartbroken because they missed the animal but they would say derek you work so hard every single day

to get me within range and to get me a shot and I keep screwing it up. And I, I'm like, don't even think twice about it. But you know, you, they feel that burden because they realize that you're working really hard for them. And I think that would be a place where people should spend some time shooting. Yeah. Yeah. And I always say, you know, I have to always be shooting your high powered rifle, right? Reps behind a, a trigger, a 22, like,

I spent my life, people probably don't know this about me, but I spent my younger days as a kid. As soon as I could hold a gun, I was shooting BB guns and 22s. And I've probably shot about a million BBs through an old piece of crap BB gun that didn't even have a stock on it. I would improvise and hold that thing up as close as I could and shoot BBs with that thing. And then I finally got a 22. And I don't know how many BBs.

bazillion dollars I spent in .22 shells. But man, I've shot my whole life. Right. And then I shoot high-powered rifles from time to time, but I still shoot .22s a lot. It's just being on the gun and understanding. Yeah, I think the part where people fail is not, we think when we talk about shooting, it's just hitting the target. Yeah. That's really not...

The biggest issue is probably target acquisition where we see a bull or a deer, whatever it is we're hunting, and I'm saying he's right there, but you don't see him and you're trying to get him in your scope, but you can't even see it because target acquisition. Maybe you've got your scope turned the magnification all the way up or whatever it is and you need to back out and then find him and then turn up to whatever you want to shoot at. But target acquisition is a big deal. That's probably, you think about it, you might get...

Hopefully we've spotted a bull and you have all the time in the world to set up, dial if you're going to use turrets or whatever, but sometimes it's not that way. Sometimes you have maybe five seconds, 10 seconds, 15 seconds to set up and you've got to be able to find that animal in that scope.

and and get a shot it's not always about hitting it that's not what i'm talking about specifically but right um target acquisition is a big deal and you need to be honest too with your guide when he asked i don't always see guys shoot and so i'll ask them you know what are you what's your comfortable range and they'll a lot of guys are west side guys and they'll say well i never shoot more than 200 yards so i don't really know and they'll say well i shoot a

you know, a two, three inch group at a hundred and that's good enough for the coast range at a hundred yards. So it's no big deal, but out here, you know, two inches at a hundred is six inches at 300. And so, and those shots are super common. You know, you shot 500 or roughly 500 today, I guess. And your rifle that you were using was,

It was set up for it. Everything was great, but not everyone has that rifle. And so people just need to be honest about their shooting experience, their, you know, their rifle, their capabilities. I need to know if I know that you can shoot a one inch group at a hundred, that gives me an idea of our maximum effective range. Right. So it's important to be honest with the, with your guide. Yeah. And we, I have, I have rifles that,

clients can use as well that are dialed and turreted and all that stuff it's it doesn't make sense for a guy to go buy you know a six thousand dollar rifle to go on this elk hunt that doesn't really make sense so i have those available that people use i just let them use them i don't charge them anything for it but sure sure yeah and sometimes like you know it it lets you know where you need to set them up too it's like well i can't set them up we're gonna shoot 500 yards we need to set up

further down the ridge or we need to be on a different ridge, you know, we need to set up in the right places to shoot from. And I don't want to give the impression that it's always a long range affair because it's not. The average range, if I think back on the bulls that I've killed in the big three with clients is probably about

175 to 225 yards. I'm an archery hunter myself. And so my nature is to get as close as I can. There's no reason to shoot at 300 if we can get to 150 easily. Yeah. And the potential to miss at 100 or 150 is a lot smaller than at three, four, five and greater. Yeah.

I was watching a video of Ryan Lampers. He's an excellent hunter. If you talk to him, he doesn't, you know, if you quiz him out, he won't really tell you a lot of times. Like, when was the last time you missed? And he doesn't miss very often, hardly at all. But I watched him on a video where he was mule deer hunting, and he could have taken a shot, and it was probably...

I think it was like 400 yards or so. I might have this wrong, but he's like, I can make that shot, but man, I just really want to make sure I get this tier. So they moved up and he snuck up and got, he cut the distance almost in half. Maybe he's down to 200 yards and now it's a chip shot. Right. And it's just like,

And sometimes by just getting up a little bit closer, it becomes a chip shot and then you don't miss, right? And I think, too, it depends on your experience. For a guy who shoots his rifle a lot, is intimately familiar with that rifle, I would say 300 and 400 yards off of a prone rest,

you know, calm wind conditions. It's almost a chip shot with the right rifle and with the optics and the ballistic apps and range finding binoculars and all that stuff that we have now, it's almost a chip shot, but that's to the, that's to a guy who's doing that to a guy who hunts the West side in the, you know, in that thick brush and never shoots more than a hundred yards. It's not really fair to put him behind a gun that can shoot that and then say, shoot 500 yards. You know, that's not, it's not even, it's not even ethical. Yeah.

Yeah. Honestly. Yeah. So, and that guy shooting your gun in camp for three shots to make sure he can hit, you know, a one inch group or whatever, whatever you think is acceptable, that's not preparing him to shoot 500. Right. So I have guys who, you know, you guys can shoot 500 yards and I'm confident that you can do it. I would let you shoot that. I would, and I, I'm not the guy who's also going to say, you know, you can't take that shot. I'm not going to let you do that. I, I feel like,

there's a lot of that heavy handedness and outfitting. You can't shoot this bullet. You can't shoot this broadhead. You can't, I'm not your babysitter. Like my job is to get you within an ethical range and then be a support to you. And, you know, we've all hunted and we all know that stuff, stuff just happens. Yeah. We miss, we make poor hits. We, all kinds of stuff happens and your guide should be your support system to help minimize the effects of that. But, uh,

If I felt like a guy could not shoot 500 yards, either because of equipment or because I saw him shoot, I would just get him closer. Yeah. I would always push that on him. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

usually there's no reason we can't get a little bit closer. You know, we could have cut where you shot your bull. We could have caught a cut a hundred yards just by going down the hill further. And it would have caused some other issues. We would have been shooting maybe at a different incline or, you know, your support wouldn't have been prone on the ground. You might've been shooting off of, you know, my,

tripod with a gun saddle on it or something which wouldn't be ideal but there's options we can get closer and if nothing else there's another day we'd rather wait and hunt an elk the next day than to wound it and lose it nobody wants that over a marginal shot you know just for the sake of saying I did it sure

What, what's been your very favorite hunt and in your years of guiding and outfitting hunters, do you have, do you have one that stands out that was like, this was like probably one of my favorite as hunts ever. I have one. It wasn't even a paid hunt. I was guiding, uh,

I was guiding an elk hunter. I told you guys this story this weekend. I was guiding an elk hunter in Mount Emily and we had gone down over a hill after a bull to get a better look at it before we committed to shooting it. And so we sat on that bull all day. It finally came out at almost dark and just a smaller bull than what the client wanted to shoot. So we were just sitting there kind of killing time so we didn't blow those elk out when we left.

And I looked down and I see a guy and his wife and like a teenage daughter, look like young teenage daughter coming around the hill below us. And I'm not sure how I knew that they were spike hunters. I'd hate to stereotype, but I just had an idea that they were spike hunters. And so I told that hunter, I said, I'm going to go down and

I'm going to bring the, we were also, when we were sitting there, there was two spikes above us, like 175 yards above us. And I said, I'm going to go down and get that guy and see if he wants to kill one of these spikes. I'll help him. And so client wasn't super happy about it, but we didn't have anything to lose. We weren't going to shoot that bull. We were done hunting for the day. Uh, so I ran down to the guy, uh,

Told him who I was asked if he had spike tags. He did her his wife and daughter did I said if you want to kill two spikes right now bring you up here and we'll shoot these two and so I brought him up to where we were had both his daughter and his wife prone and they shot both those spikes boom boom both of them fell down.

Uh, and it was, the cool part was it was his daughter's first big game animal. And it was his wife's, I think, first time hunting. Uh, she was a five-year breast cancer survivor. It was like her first time out. And another cool part was it was their last, last day of their hunt. And he said, he told his wife, we're going to go out on the face or

of this mountain. And she said, why are we going to do that? And he said, oh, I think we might see something out there. And she said, we're not going to see anything. And he said, oh, God will provide a way. And they went out there and it just, it turned out

amazing that we were able to help them kill that. And it wasn't even a paid thing. I had, you know, we had nothing really to gain from it. That was what my client said. He was a little bit upset about it, you know? And I said, we have nothing to lose and everything to gain. We're going to help this guy and his family and we're going to feel good about it. And it's what we should be doing anyway, as sportsmen, just helping each other out. We don't have to gain on every single thing. Sometimes you do things just for the good of doing them. Yeah. Yeah. Doing the right thing feels good. Right. Yeah.

Right. And even that guy reached out to me months and months later and was so appreciative that it just, it fills your heart to do stuff like that for people. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Well, man, I have had the best time hunting here. I mean, it's been a short, it's been a short trip. I mean, I kill on day one. Um, how great's that? You know, I always say, you know, it, maybe it's not a, a, a real elk hunt until you've had to have the highest of highs and the lowest of lows, and then get back to the highest of highs. But we had some highs and lows today with, with, uh, wind and lots of competition, a lot of other folks out there in the woods. Yeah.

and then we had a really big high when I got that bull. Yeah, just going from we were almost sure we were going to get a shot at that bull and then to have a bunch of competition from DIY hunters coming into the same area and no one really being willing to yield to the other, so we're all kind of hoping to spot this bull from different vantage points, but that was a low. I know all night long,

it was a low for all of us. We were all worried how it was going to turn out, but it just turned out. It wasn't that bull, but we knew there were other good bulls in that same drainage. And so we just put ourselves in the best spot to hopefully have a shot when no one else would. And it just worked out. But yeah, it was really good to have you guys out. It was great when Jason first reached out to me about this tag when I first drew it and, and Jason was trying to figure out a way to do it himself and that didn't pan out. And then he said, well, what,

what if Dirk, what if Dirk could do it? And I said, man, Dirk would be awesome. Everybody loves Dirk and Dirk is a great guy. And I feel like the people that are mad about outfitter tags going to, I think what they're mad about is that they just go to someone that has a bunch of money. Yeah. And we don't like the sound of that. We don't like the way it feels. It feels elitist and that these guys are just buying a deal. So to have a regular guy like Dirk

get that tag. I don't, I don't understand how anyone could really be mad about that. I know I'm not. Yeah. Right. I'm happy about it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm appreciative for the opportunity and, um, man,

I'd like to say, I can't wait to come back, but I don't know that'll ever happen again. But you know, who knows, you know, maybe, maybe, maybe I'll get lucky again someday. Maybe I'll draw a tag, but, um, but yeah, it's been fun. It's beautiful. It's beautiful country up here. They call it the blue mountains, but man, there sure are a lot of Tamaracks that are bright gold, you know, bright yellow. It's so beautiful. And a lot of game. We saw a lot of bulls. We saw like seven bulls last night and,

And yeah, it was, it's been fun. It's been fun. I I'm that's, that's the bad part about pulling a trigger. The good part and the bad part. The good part is like, yes, I got one. The bad part is it's over. It's over now. I don't, I mean, we could have, we could have spent more time hunting and it's, it's not easy hunting. I'm like, we sat there and about froze to death today, the wind and it was cold and the wind just cut.

Um, and then tonight with the weather coming in, I could, I can tell the rest of the week would not have been easy. This was the best day to kill if you're going to. Yep. But, but we would, uh, we would have dug in and enjoyed every bit of it and suffered through all the hardships and, but that's hunting, right? That's the, that's the fun part about hunting. Yeah. Yeah. And if it, if you can look at a bull and you, even if it's just in that moment, you think, man, that's, this is a great,

Sometimes it's the guys hunting with his son, his father, whatever it is. And it's not... Sometimes a hunt isn't about the size of the antlers. It's just about the... It might be the stock. It might be the country. It might be the company. Yeah. It's just a lot of things. So I wish people wouldn't get hung up on the size of the antler so much because I think it cheats us out of the experience, really. Oh, yeah. And so, yeah, hopefully...

Hopefully you're happy with that bull. I'm happy for you. Yeah. And it's a beautiful bull. It was a great hunt. Good time in camp. You know, it's great. I'd have you guys come back next year in a second.

Yeah. If I could get you to cut away and come help me on that sheep hunt this week, that'd be great. Your wife already thinks you're gone for a week. Yeah. It would be great. I think you'd probably just like not send her any pictures and be like, yeah, yeah. The hunt went the distance, honey. Not knowing we went sheep hunting. That'd be fun. Go help on that. Right. Well, anytime you got time.

Yeah. I'll put you in camp cooking and washing dishes. Yeah. That'd be good too. That'd be good too. We've, we've had good food here so far. So, um, it's been great. Um, so tell everyone how they can find you on, on social, on your website and stuff. Yeah. So my website is easternoregonoutfitters.com. Uh, I have Instagram, Facebook. It's also Eastern Oregon Outfitters.com.

Super easy to find. You could Google it. It's easy to find. And I'm fairly active on social media. I kind of, when I get into a hunt, I don't post a whole lot. I'm more collecting content that I can share later when I have time to breathe. But, you know, this is a busy time of year. But yeah, you can get a hold of me on Facebook, Instagram, or my website.

That's awesome. Well, thanks a lot, Derek. Appreciate you having us as a guest in your camp. Thanks for coming on the podcast, and I look forward to seeing what the rest of your hunters do this fall. Yep, thanks. I appreciate you guys. Yep, you bet. Outdoor adventure won't wait for engine problems. Things like hard starts, rough performance, and lost fuel economy are often caused by fuel gum and varnished buildup. Seafoam can help your engine run better and last longer. Simply pour a can in your gas tank.

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