MURDERED: Lyric Cook-Morrissey & Elizabeth Collins
53:19 Share

High crime junkies, i'm your host, ashly flower and i'm bread and every beautiful crime junky should know that. In inDiana, the trial against Richard Allen has been unfolding for the murders of abby Williams and liberty german, which many people know is to delphine markers. IT is dominated the headlines for weeks, and as of the time of this recording, the defense has just rested and closing arguments are about to begin, which means that this eight year long fight might be coming to an end, maybe already has by the time you're listening to this episode.

For the sake of avian levi's families who have had to sit day in and day out in that court room hearing every last awful detail about their girls last few moments, displaying a level of courage view of us, could possibly be hand verdict aside, whatever the outcome, I hope that they find some peace, some justice that they so desperately deserve. But there has been something that every day when I see the trial recaps pop up, like I keep finding myself thinking about. And it's other case.

These other set of Young midwesterner girls who were abducted, found, murdered in the woods, and actually for a minute back in two thousand and seventeen, lots of people even thought I could be connected to the delphi case, which I mean, now IT seems pretty clear. It's not. But then that leaves you asking, like where does that leave this other one, this other case that happened almost five years before delphy, and yet in that when there still is no trial, no arrests, no suspects, or at least no suspects officially? Anyway, this is the story of lyric cook, more racy and Elizabeth Collins.

Hey, current junkies spirit and i'm jumping in here because post recording this episode, some news happened. As i'm sure you all know, a verdict has since been reached in the delphia case and Richard Allen has been found guilty on all counts. Though there are some mixed feelings about this one, the jury felt like there was enough presented to conviction.

So that's where right today. But like actually said, vertical IDE, all we had hope for was some type of closure for the families by the end of all of this. Of course, this conviction won't give them A B and libby back, but hopefully they've found at least some of the answers we've been searching for, answers that unfortunately, not every family gets in seven years or ten years or even a lifetime. But that doesn't mean we should ever stop fighting for them. So let's jump back against the today's story, where justice is still yet to be served.

Heather Collins is running errands on a hot friday in july of twenty twelve, friday the thirteen, in fact, but she's eager to get home and relieve the babysitter. A K A grama her mom, wilma, she's got her hands ful hathors got four kids and win also got her granddaughter from her other daughter.

Missing hat is also hustling home because, as he told reporters, and coal ag and iron hacker with K C R G, SHE has promised one of her daughters that they would go out that afternoon to get invitations for her nth birthday party. So when he pulls in the driveway and walks in, ready to let grammar clock out, SHE expects Elizabeth to be there waiting, but wells says that he is on a bike ride with myse daughter lary lord is hand of the two are like inseparable. And it's not weird that the two went off on a right together, but IT is weird that they haven't been back yet.

Wilma told them to be back soon, but it's been like over an hour by this point. But wilmer didn't panic for the same reason. Father is doing her best now not to panic.

They live in this tiny, safe suburb of waterloo, IOS, called Evans deal. Everybody knows everybody, and people look out for each other. The girl who know a tonic kids in neighborhood Elizabeth is a chatter box.

So they likely just ran in to some friends. They lost track of time, so have their heads back out to drive and search for them. Sure that the girls are just onna pop up at any moment, but the thing is they don't md shows up after getting off work a little after one to get lyric, they still aren't home.

And before long, hathors has been drew get home to still no sign of the girls. And by now, this is when either is pannick. According to more reporting by hacker and ag, drew suggests that they go knock on some doors, start looking around even more, check the neighbor od playgrounds.

Each door they knocked on IT is the same. We haven't seen them. They haven't been by here, not here. Like, have you checked there? And at a certain point, they feel like they're checked everywhere and there is no sign of these girls or their bikes.

So at two forty eight, heather walks to the evan's dae police department to report the girls missing right to the cheap of police himself. Cheap can't smoke and chief smoke sends a couple of officers to the Collins house to get more details, do a quick search, making sure the girls aren't hiding or sleeping in the house somewhere. And when they're confident they're not a ground, search gets underway sometime between four and five.

Chief smoke swings by the calling house, where the family's been trying to sit tight because a firefighter found something. Two bikes about a mile away admires lake, and he wants drew to come with him to I. D.

The bikes. As soon as drew sees them, his stomach c drops. They are definitely, we are analyzed, beth. They're on this tiny peninsula that kind of judges out into the lake. And the gate that should be locked, like should be shot to block off the peninah is wide open, which is how IT was likes were found.

Did the girls Normally come out to this lake?

No, not on their own. But like there's a first for everything, right? Like if they did that though, they're worry now that maybe the girls came out to the lake to swim.

It's a hot july summer day. Maybe they went too deep or who knows. But like now they have this whole lake that they have to start there.

Anything there with the bikes like but their shoes? I mean, they would wear their shoes to go swimming like any of their stuff.

There is nothing there at the bike but like that. No reason to stop. Chief smoke jumps on his radio, tells the fire department to bring out the search boat to drag this lake.

And meanwhile, drew, like, I mean, i've been the same boat and I don't want wait for anyone. I'm just going to start looking. That's what he does.

He starts looking nearby because in his mind, like there's gotto be something else here, sign or hint or clue about where the girls went or what they are even doing out here. And so he wanders up onto the bike trail that actually surrounds the lake, which has this tall metal fence along both sides. And as he's walking, something on the other side of the fence catches his eye.

It's almost like hidden in the tall grass. But there is this flash of blue. And when he gets close enough to see what IT is, he pulls out his phone, he takes a picture, and he sends IT to either for confirmation.

Is he really seeing what he thinks he's saying? Maybe he's misremembering, but he's not. That blue thing is a hana montana parse that no doubt belongs to Elizabeth.

And heather tells reporters that in that moment, when he gets this picture and he sees that purse, SHE knew that the girls were gone. They end up retrieving the purse. Elizabeth cellphone is found inside, putting any question about whether IT was hers to rest.

And everything kicks into high gear after that, in like a matter of minutes, volunteer searches, like the people of events, dail and beyond, come out in droves. All the parents get out there to either. And drew and missed along with lear's dad, dan, who is actually separated for misty at the time.

And while the lake is being drag, divers going in as well. And listen, mayor's lake isn't massive, but it's not a glorified neighborhood pond either. It's it's twenty seven ages, big enough to boat on and big enough to have a little island like in the middle. So when the parents see the divers coming back after just like an hour, they're like what there is no way that .

they are just entire lake in an hour. exactly.

And that's not the only moment of tension between the authorities families. Mister actually describes this moment in a max documentary that was done by Dylan sires.

SHE says there's a moment he asked the cop, like, who's actually starting the island in the middle? The lake cop is like, kind of where he is a super dismissive I kind of mind own business thing like will get to IT and I get to IT and this upsets missed so much that she's like, well, if you're not going to get to IT now, I will and fully close like there's actually local news footage of this because they're out there. By this time, her and one of the dads just start walking. I get fully closed into the water out to the island. If investigators can get to IT, they will swim out there to do IT themselves.

You know, if you want something done, right?

That's what they did. But they don't find anything on the island. Now, even though the ground searches are going to go on through the night by nine or ten investigation held, all the parents like you should have home, just get some rest, but they don't want to, because they feel like even though the searching might continue, they are worried that they might be focused on the wrong place, like all of the focus is on the lake. And the parents aren't convinced that that's where .

the girls actually are. They seem like, why would laws of his prospect on the fence on the other side, exactly opposite direction of the lake? No, this is like a swiming accident.

no. So that night drew called chief dane charka of the waterloo d and chief charka, he gets IT. His gut tells him that there's a more going on here than a couple of girls who like swim and maybe accidentally drown. And if he's right about that, no number of volunteers searching in and around the lake is gone to get the girl's home. So that night he notified the IoT division of criminal investigation, and the FBI notified as well.

Now there is IT like an FBI field office in this tiny town of evan's deal, or even in that region, not even in the state actually, but the coal A G, an iron hacker report that, by coincidence, the FBI already had loads of agents in that area working a fraud d investigation. So they redirect a bunch of them to Evans dale. And search efforts get off to a more robust art.

The next morning, investigators from both dc. I in the FBI are there, along with investigators from Evans lpd, the waterloo d and the black hot county share of office. Now the effort to drag the lake and the ground search is all continuing, like they still got ta check the box, which I get, but they search IT all the way through sunday, and nothing in that leg turns up or anywhere else.

And by that point, people on the ground have also covered an area of twelve square miles. But there is just nothing. They even get so desperate that they drain the lake at one point, but it's in vain.

That is not where the girls are. D C, I N, F, B I agents focusing on canvassing and conducting interviews, starting with the families. Nothing about either.

And drew raises any flags, but misty and dan seem to be another story. Both missed an dan have significant histories with substances disorder, along with criminal records, most of IT related to drugs. In fact, dan is supposed to go to trial in just a few months on mostly drug related charges. But once that Carry serious time, like he turned down a plea offer that included a thirty year sentence the day before the girl disappeared, and that was supposed .

to be the compromise.

I A, yeah. I mean, what he was up against was a lot higher.

So how would any of that connect to the girls?

I don't I don't know that they know, but I think they suspect that maybe people associated with dan and whatever he was mixed up in, like again, when you're talking more than thirty years, like it's pretty serious, like his charges, I believe, were for like manufacturing, distributing stuff like that. So it's possible there was an Operation with more people involved. OK question mark, I don't know.

He doesn't take long for things to kind of go off the rail. So both misty and dan agree to separate polygraphs. Mister is clean. She's been cleaned for quite a while, but the problem is dan isn't.

He's high when he gets there, which he discloses, but in this year is assured him that the test is gna work just fine biller IT doesn't. No, no, of course not. The results are in inclusive.

I don't think he should have ever been allowed to take that. I mean drugs like everything. I not great. I'm not a graph like everything i've ever heard about IT. IT absolutely affects the result.

We've had cases where people are unlike blood pressure medication and they opt to refuse a polygraph because like they don't know that's gonna affect rings.

But drug use aside, they have misty, who said she's clean and even hers though, comes back in conclusive, which they must have put a lot of weight on, because at that point the script just flips. Things get super confrontational, and they accuse missed in dan of killing the girls, or at least of knowing who did. Dan ends up storming out mid and interrogation. They both lawyer up, and they just stop CoOperating.

which i'm sure makes them even more .

specious. Two investigators, but to either and drew as well. The temperature does kind of cool off a bit, like eventually dann offers to get clean, to sit for another polygraph. Md offers to sit for another one, two, the second time they both pass. So you could say that again, early days.

things are just so. So are the investigator or looking at anyone else like besides the family.

I am sure they are looking at friends, family members, neighbors, neighborhood x offenders, obviously, but I they are not getting anywhere with any of IT. Thankfully though, even though they don't have a specific suspect in their sites, IT does seem like police have officially moved away from any kind of accidental drowning theory, because exactly a week into the investigation, the case is really classified as an abduction, and investigators try to find security camera footage of the girls. The problem is we're talking twenty twelve like the ring, doorbell camera or stuff like that isn't quite .

as prevalent like a neighbor for sure when all .

in down they get there is one camera from a business close to the Collins house that caught the girls for like a few seconds on a grainy, blurry video riding by on their bikes, which doesn't do much other than confirm wilmer's timely about the girls heading out on their bikes. Set about twelve, fifteen by the time elisabeth nine birthday roles around on july thirty first, they still have nothing.

This is a full eighteen days after they disappeared, although she's not there with them, there is something comforting to lyric. Mom missed the belief that wherever they are, whatever has happened, they are at least together. And lyric is no doubt doing all we can to protect Elizabeth, looking out for her Younger cousin, like he always does.

Reporting from casey R. G says that sometime that fall, investigators have a really hard conversation with heather injury, probably missing indian as well. They want them to be prepared for what's onna happen if the girls are found?

They said, if it's good news, if the girls are found alive, they're gonna be told me, go to the hospital. If it's bad news, they're gonna told to meet investigators somewhere. That's not the hospital, which makes the calls that they all get from a local pastor on december feed.

All the more got watching because they're all told to go to city hall as quickly as possible, because investigators won't be waiting there for them. And one investigators tell them is that earlier that day, a couple of hunters had stumbled on two small sets of human remains about thirty minutes north of evan's deal in this big wooded area called seven bridges wildlife area in bramer county. Formal identification still need be made, but as soon as investigators show them pictures of the shoes found with the remains, they all know one hundred and forty five days after theyve finished and twenty days before Christmas, lyric and Elizabeth have been recovered.

And drew described the conflicting and complicated feelings that kind of washed over him. He has this kind of long quote that he told michele, agent iron hacker, and I don't want to summarize IT because it's just so long. Have you read IT for U. S.

He says, quote, is really painful because when you don't know where there out for five months and then they find them, you feel relieved and then you feel guilty and that crushes you because it's like when they find them, you are relieved that they at least found, but then you ve got guilt. It's the worst thing I can think of.

Anything worse, anything. It's got to be something that so many loved ones of missing member people can relate to. No one wants all this time searching to end in the discovery of remains like you. Everyone wants that happy ending, but after months of sleepless nights in questions with no answers, there is some relief. And finally, knowing, I always say it's a instead of every possibility like you can .

you have one to like, no.

no yeah. In that max docs dance says he only has one question for the investigators where they found together, and cheap smog tells him, yes, they had each other. Now the girls were found in an especially remote part of seven bridges, which is only accessible one particular route.

And the fact that they were found in seven bridges at all gives investigators some important insight into their killer, because this area isn't known to everyone. I mean, a lot of locals don't even know about IT, but you know who IT is known to? Apparently criminals who like to use that as a dumping ground, guns, drugs, that kind of thing, I mean, found IT all out there before.

Except now IT doesn't seem like anything else related to the girls was left out there with them. They're hard pressed to find anything else out there besides their bodies that helps them generate leads. And even though IT feels like they should be dealing with a small pool of suspects, at least again based on the area, whatever no one is identified and the case seems to go cold all through the winter into the in, until may have twenty thirteen.

That's when investigators, in this case, catch wind of another double abduction a little over a hundred miles away in date IoT, one with clear similarities to lyric and Elizabeth's case. I needed you a little background, so I haven't mentioned this yet, but double abductions are rare, like very, very rare. D ci.

Special agent in charge Larry headland explains in the docker series that at the time of lycon Elizabeth abduction, there had only been fifteen double abductions since the one thousand and seventy in the entire country. We are an eliza were number sixteen, and this one in dating was number seventeen. wow.

And by the way, there's something kind of interesting. Clearly, they are rare, but somehow iowa has three, and those three didn't happen for one thousand nine seventy to now. They're all concentrated from one hundred and ninety one to now in in our story in twenty twelve.

Now this one in dating also two Young girls, also best friends, fifteen year year old caffeine shepard and twelve year old Daisy hues. They were walking home from their bus stop when a random do in a red pickup truck pulled over and ask if they wanted to make some money mowing his lawn. Kaolin and desi were, for sure, interested what he does not, anna like, earn some extra money.

But they told him that they they have to ask their parents first. And even though they were less than a block from home, they hoped in his truck when he offered to drive them the rest of the way. And the drivers is this big guy who introduce themselves as a Michael, but instead of driving them towards their houses, Michael starts driving in the opposite direction.

And Catherine and desi, we're like, hey, like we told you, we have to ask our parents first. He said, oh yeah, no worries. I am just going to take you there, but you can use my phone to then ask, which is like, not the thing that they needed to ask before along.

They weren't even in date anymore. And I think this is when they really started to get scared. But Michael wouldn't turn the truck around.

And eventually he pulls into this like a long drive, but I didn't lead to a house like he said. He was going to IT LED to this property with a couple of pig confinement and a shed truly in the middle of nowhere. Now he is still going along with this rules at this point, probably trying to keep them calm.

He's like all the long mower is in this shed, and the girls probably wanting to believe this wasn't a true nightmare. They agree to go in, maybe even hoping there's a phone or whatever. But of course, when they went inside, there is .

one know them.

They turn around to go back outside. But they were stopped in their tracks when they saw that Michael was blocking the exit with a gun point at that. He ordered them both to lay down on their stomachs, and then he zipped, tied their hands behind their backs.

And once they were, the Michael put his gun down and picked up a knife instead. Now the girls are panicking and have just burst into tears, begging him to let them go. And this pissed Michael off.

So he grabbed caffeine by the ARM, dragged her out of the shed, leaving dae in their own load. And the last thing he heard was Cathy just yelling her name. And in silence, Daisy somehow manuvred and got her hands in front of her.

Michael gun would still there where he let IT. So SHE grabbed IT and bolted across the property as fast as he could until SHE reached a tree to hy behind. And Michael and techland must have been out of view at that point because I don't think he realized dazed was gone until he walk back in the shed.

So she's out there and SHE, at some point, hears him just yelled this explicit. And then SHE heard his truck started. And a lot of a kids, people, whatever, would probably be frozen with fear, but not Daisy sheep ran into the giant woods behind the pig.

Confinements and SHE just ran and ran and ran the whole time, hearing mics truck creeping down the surrounding country, rose as he tried to hunt her down. And after what felt like an eternity, SHE reached a farm, ran into a couple of men standing outside and begged them to call nine one one. Now SHE could really get out was that her friend needed help.

Now, one of these men, who was the owner of a ARM, told the other guy, grab gun, go drive to finance on to help. And basically about Michael guy is there? Like, make sure he stays there.

But when this friend comes back, he said, all he could find IT was a Michael, not another girl. All he found was a pool of blood. Daisy was saved, and they ultimately determined that Michael was Michael colder.

He was the sun in law of the man who owned those pig confinements. He was also a registered sex offender. Now, deputies made A B line to this guys' house about ten miles away. And while they were there, outside mics, wife pulls into the driveway.

And when they asked her where her husband was, SHE told them, I don't know, but like, I just got this text from Michael like a very cyp tic tax, because basically all IT said was he loved her and that he was sorry. Before long, Michael father in law, ends up finding him on another property he owned. He had taken his own life, and then eighteen days after that, cather's body was found in the demon river.

No, obviously, when the dust settles a little bit on that case, that's when everyone wanders. The same thing was Michael, the guy who had taken lear, Elizabeth, now the end up finding out that he was familiar with seven bridges, that area that they, like someone had to know this place. He had been sent to some sort of juvenile detention facility in that general area for assaulting a girl back in one thousand and eighty six when he was just fifteen years old. And he ended up escaping from that place. And guess we just found hiding .

out seven bridges.

Yp, seven bridges. So IT might have been unknown to a lot of IOS, but I was not unknown to Michael. And guess what? Remember how I said there had only been three double abductions in the state since one thousand nine hundred ninety one? Yeah, the nineteen ninety one case involved two tokers OK. And guess you are purpose? No, Michael was responsible for, at a minimum, we know two of the three I O, A double abductions .

on d double auctions that are incredibly rare.

Rare in general. We has three of them. So let me fully break down this guy's criminal history, because I think that really paints a picture. In one thousand nine hundred and eighty six, when he was just fifteen years old, he assaulted a girl with the intention to commit sexual abuse. That is how he wound up in that juveniles detention facility from eighty six to eighty eight.

By eighty nine, he was free for a hot minute, but he wound back up in custody from eighty nine to ninety one because at the age of seventeen, he committed another assault. This time he was with the intent to commit serious injury. He got out in ninety one, but not even a full four months later, he tried to abduct a Young woman that he like tricked into a pulling cover under the pretense of her tail lights being out.

And I think he was like pretending maybe to be an officer or or maybe he was pretending to help. I don't know exactly, but he managed to, when he, like, pulled over, drag her into his car. Ryan j.

Foley reports for the associated depressed that he was only when he got the attention of another driver, that he ditched her and fled the scene. So SHE survived. But he's like on the run at that point.

The next day he abducted those two. Todd's now apparently he knew one of their moms, which i'm guessing is how he got caught. But when he abducted them, he put them in his trunk, drove them to this rule spot like fifty miles away, and left them in some sort of trash recepticle and not unharmed. By the way, though they both survived, one of them was found to have been showed. So he went back to prison, serving about two decades before being released in twenty eleven.

And then we are gna. Lizabeth happened in twenty twelve by who knows.

And then in twenty thirteen, we know that he attacked caffeine and Daisy before taking his own life.

When did this guy even have time to get married?

So that was actually fresh. He got married sometime in twenty twelve, which would have been the same year that new york Elizabeth were killed.

And let's be clear, there's a happened here. He goes to person, gets out within .

a year, every single for whole. So yes, I see a pattern. A lot of people see a pattern. And I think the key is if he's responsible for a york and Elizabeth case, there is a pattern otherwise. Otherwise he waited a little bit longer.

So if he's out in two thousand and eleven, and we saw two thousand and thirteen minutes a year ish, right? So IT could be close. But guess what? In two thousand and fourteen, investigators say it's not him.

We rule them out. No way ruled him .

out completely. They never say definitively why, but chief charka thinks that he has to do with his cell phone pinging up in the dating area, which was a hundred miles away. Parents, his phone, the day that the girls went missing, were murdered. His phone is one hundred miles away.

Can I tell you something shocking? Phones don't abduct people.

People is a one hundred miles. Where is here? I know, I know.

IT might, like I would say, doesn't have an alias. We don't right. I would say probably not. Um I know police have said that they believe he was at home or at war, but like again to me that's not like .

if you believe you don't know .

and even if you even if he was at work, apparently his working could put him on the road sometimes anyways. So it's not in kanzi, val. You can make a hundred mile trip there and back easy in a day. I mean, you travel what .

is like a hundred and fifteen miles from my house.

and you make the of you all the time. Now maybe you've got more that they just haven't disclosed. I kind of wonder if there's like emo stuff that we aren't privy to because I have been talked about new york and Elizabeth autopsy results or a main or because they never come out even to this day. So the only thing I feel like what maybe inform their thinking is that okay?

But I feel like we don't see a lot of consistency in pattern with other stuff that was so like why would that like is there enough to say like this isn't something he would do faced on the wide variety of ways he's assaulting people in the past?

And I don't have like a ton of detail detail a right like we know we have the most detail about Catherine and deadly. Uh, all like we know is maybe like that he choked the talk there. I don't have something happened to the other taught there.

I don't have details about these other attacks, unlike single victims. So IT is possible. There is stuff that is, you know for the love cases in the public of business and has not been released. I don't and again, maybe i'm just like making steff up but and like to me what his mo is is he's a predator.

He he's a bad guy who praise on people yeah .

but they still say it's not him. He's cleared. But what's so interesting is like in the same year in twenty fourteen, the FBI does a profile of lyric analysis killer and when I look at the profile, i'm like, oh, you're describing Michael like the pictures .

the same where .

I send IT to you. Can you just give us the highlights?

Yeah so IT says perp may have been experiencing problems in his personal life, may not talk much about the case, but is probably following IT closely in the news, may have altered his appearance and or the appearance of his vehicle.

which should be fair I don't know of that any of that applies to Michael. But it's like IT seems just like super general question reMarks yeah .

perp is probably familiar with Myers lake, could probably blend in and could be from Evans dail or brainwork cony probably used either a rules or threats of violence to get the girls to comply.

S so he did that with .

cafe and dizzy and he says he probably chose seven bridges because he knew how clear .

that is and like probably has a history of .

abductions and attempted abductions yeah and it's so while .

because like at the same time they keep doubling down on the seven bridges thing like the FBI had wait in and the national center of her missing exploded children does two and grant Rogers even quotes chief smog in the demotion registered, saying that they have no doubt the killer was super familiar with the area and so like all .

of the experts agree on that point well and like he didn't just know about the area, he ran away and hit there. He knows IT because .

he chose know that like we like they're just keep doubling down like we know that now we need .

to know who and they still say despite all of this.

it's still not mico, not Michael. no. But they also don't have any new names to offer up or they don't until november twenty sixteen, when a new suspect emerges.

In november of twenty sixteen, a travelling auto insurance field inspector from central IoT named jeff all mire gets arrested that month on suspicion of impersonating officer and attempting to abduct a sexual girl in an IoT town on the border of like nebraska. This guy basically offered her one hundred dollars to get in his car. And in fact, when they searched, they find a whole word of a hundred ds, like when he's taken into custody, along with zn x and viagra. And this one, one hundred hundred bills makes sense because IT turns out that this guy has been doing this before. In fact, D, C, I had been getting bizarre reports from all over this day about some dude trying to get kids in his car by offering them one hundred dollars.

How did they even get on him?

Wlink howse for the demolition registered that the six year old refused to get in his car and then told her mom and they're twenty two year old neighbor, who was like, oh, no. Had the girl described the car then they jumped into their own car, like, try to bare fit, sped off after this silver ford focus that was describe, and there was little time of his high speed chase, where he's like, going after this guy till l he gets the plate number, which he then turned over to police. So this happens naturally. Investigators still working clerk and Elizabeth case, which is a little cold by now, are especially interested to learn that his target almost always turned out to be Young girls and he's even already suspected of being connected to a june twenty sixteen attempted abduction of three girls twelve miles from Evans dale.

three girls at the same time.

yeah, at the same time. But as promising as he looks, there is one glaring problem with his M. O. Compared to new york analyze. Because while he is suspected of having I tried this, at least one thousand thousand different kids he tried to get in his car, and he is eventually charged and convicted of two counts of sexual assault on a minor. IT seems like anyone he was able to get in, or whether they refused, or what I like, he let them go.

And what did you say? He drives.

He dribble a ford focus at the time.

so that's a day on. So what would he have done with lyrics with bikes like Michael? He had a truck like that made sense. This doesn't fully like.

I mean, unless someone so a truck makes sense, if you get the girls in your car and capacity, that is someone and you have to like transport the bikes with you. The other option is whatever happened to them, like someone got them to meet, then they're they were there when someone came across them already. I don't know.

I mean, I kind of the entred like dumped there to thinking about how her purse was kind of like toast in another area. And and and the bodies were some more completely different.

What I tried to figure out was like, where there any prince by the, whether was tire prints or foot prints that can you see, like the girl's prints by the bikes or fingerprints on the bikes, if someone would have had to have dumped them. But there is an a single mention of any of that in the reporting. And I would hope, i'm sure, but I hope they have all that. They're just again against one of those things are not releasing, but I don't know a combination of everything is why jeff, while promising at first blush, is pretty much writing off by the time of the next notable double abduction, this one in inDiana. And this brings us back to where we started.

libby and abby and delphi.

Now we didn't get hardly anything for years in that case, like same as they're gan Elizabeth, they didn't even release the cause of death. So there was a lot of speculation early on. Remember now since the trial for the delhi case has been underway, we've learned that libby were killed by having their throats let.

I don't know that is similar or this similar to the case, but suspicions still linger on the internet, or at least they did for a while, despite both agencies saying very clearly early on that the cases weren't connected back before we knew anything in the delphi case. And even then, like early on, even even drew, one of the dads, I wondered if there was a possible connection. But I think for the most part, like people are just grasping at straws. You have these two like unexplainable tragedy, both like, you know, in the grand scheme of the country, fairly close to one another.

And no one in any way has connected Richard Allan, whose charge in the delphi case .

to I A at all. No, I never ever thought come up. So I think everyone is pretty satisfied now that they are separate cases. Why delphi you getting some potential closed this case going to trial, even if we don't know how it's ended yet.

IT does leave the families of lyrical Elizabeth back at square one or square two if square two is there for a suspect, Michael, because you see when Dylan, sir, that filmmaker that i've mentioned, when he released his dog in twenty twenty four, he ended up digging up some bomb shell information. You see, he figures out that two guys who did time with Michael conder lived in Evans dae in the summer of twenty twelve. Their names are troy concluding and Chris rickets.

And according to Chris, he personally knows that Michael was in Evans dale around the time of the abductions. Chris said that troy called him in that summer of twenty twelve and was like, oh my god, you're never going to believe who is here with me right now and try hands the phone off and the next voice that Chris had belonged to, Michael. He's like, full of good chair and grow energy. Like, what's up? Have you been what everything .

on the day?

I don't know if he gets pacific or even if anyone knows because by the time he's retelling this, I mean, it's years later, but it's still worth looking into, right? So Dylan and Elizabeth statue, go track roy down and actually confront him about this. Did you call him with Michael with you in events all? And he gets defensive and he denies being with Michael at all, let alone in events.

Dail, in the summer of twenty twelve. But he does, however, agree, withdrew on one thing, if you're placing bets, the good money is on Michael being lyrica eliza's killer. This is someone who knew the guy. Now, in a really like strange turn of fate, IT turned out that drew the dad, new Chris, like they went to high school together.

a strange turn of fate, or small town.

So jill wins are calling Chris back and he's like living I had a conversation with him personally choice ed denying everything and then Chris kinda changes his story so now he's saying, okay, like they didn't call me. I actually saw them together in Evans deal that summer. I don't know that is a story changing because he's line or is a story changing because he was trying like distance.

I feel this is enough that we'll believe me, but I can distance myself from IT. And then when IT starts falling apart, he has to kind of like out himself yeah more yeah.

And he offers up an interesting piece of information that he hadn't mentioned before, or or at least he like, really homes in on. He talks about why Michael would have left his phone like, again, the whole thing is like all Michael phone is appear. He like he he came down here without his parole officers approval .

and it's far enough that he .

has to so he's like, instead of asking for approval, he probably wouldn't had to leave his phone up there to skirt. The rules are like, at least I don't get out of tracking his phone but to make sure there wasn't digital .

evidence of hiding something here the paper .

is an ah like IT makes you want to if he was involved was this like prevented? Was he like thinking he was going to do something something of course he's gona leave his his phone at home or maybe was just about the problem. He was there and then everything.

an opportunity over.

Yeah, he was opportunity. No delay, obviously, like in his phone calls me these meetings with people like they were recording everything. They turned the footage over to investigators, but IT doesn't seem like the investigation has advanced much since then.

I mean, this was just twenty twenty four like this year. So I don't know. I think was towards the top of the that at least came out. I don't know when he turned off the footage, right? I don't know if this happening in .

the back ground at all, but investigator are still saying Michael in the clear yes, but by not saying anything .

exactly so they haven't settle lot, which like the last official statement was he's in the clear and .

they haven't anything .

to contract that yeah and like there are other people who talked on the documentary like chief charka, he wasn't part or isn't now part of the ongoing investigation. But even he says he can't get over of the coincidences and he thinks Michael very well could be the guy but he again is like speaking as an observer like ice. And though he is no longer involved in the investigation, even special agent headline makes a sensible point that you can't conclude Michael wasn't there just because I phone was I social age and pray what? But every day that goes by is another day without the answers for heather and drew and missed in dan.

Not that they've just been sitting around waiting for a resolution to the nightmare that they wake up to each and every day to remember that little island I told you they like swim out to assert themselves in large par as a result of jews tireless fund raising efforts Evans deal rededicate tes IT as Angels park memorial island in honor of not just york and Elizabeth, but of three other women and girls from who were also tragically murdered. There was five year old evan Miller from floyd who was killed by her mother's Fiona in two thousand and six donacha hall, a thirteen year old from waterloo who was kidnapped ed in two thousand six before her remains were discovered in lenoir, and twenty two year old lenzing nickles who was killed by her boyfriend in twenty twelve in jp. And this, this space becomes jews favorite place to think about his little girl.

He sometimes brings his other daughters, sometimes even his dogs. And i'll go sit there in this White die bo and watched the sunset, and he says he feels her presence there in the years after the murders had there. And juice marriage well apart.

IT happens to so many families that lose kids, and mostly because they found that they had really different grieving styles. And IT just like IT can poys in your marriage like either kind of button up the grief, like desperate to kind of maintained something close to a Normal life for other kids. But I mean, jews the first to admit he just fell in the pieces and he stayed in those pieces for years.

I still is in pieces today in a lot of ways, but they've also both found a focus for their grief. And there is still a team when IT comes to keeping eliab's memory alive. In twenty twenty two, they found a deal is with Collins foundation with the goal of helping other families with missing loved ones.

And they partnered with the seder valley crime stoppers to bring attention to cold cases in the area. And they have an educational mission as well to educate the community on child safety and the dangers of child abduction and sex trafficking. Audio truck has made a donation.

And if any of you crime junkies want to do the same, please had to Elizabeth collin's foundation. Dot or M O haver and dew have completely devoted themselves to the foundation. That doesn't mean that they given up hope for justice.

And they believe that maybe someone out there knows something, which is where you come in crime junkets. If you know anything about the twenty twelve disappearance and murders of lurk, cook, Morris y, and Elizabeth Collins, you can email a tip to our missing ioc girls at D, P, S, dot state, dot I, A dot U. S, or you can text a tip to two, seven, four, six, three, seven.

Make sure you include the word ceder C E D A R. We're gonna all of that. The show notes, along with a number to call if you would like to remain anonymous.

You can find all the source material for this episode on our website, crime junky podcast dot com.

And you can follow us on instagram at crime forecast.

as always, will be back next week with a brand new episode. But we ve got a little something extra for you. Stick around for the good.

Now, I know this isn't the end of the month quite yet, but november is the month of gratitude. After all, we have so much to be thankful for, including some fun things on the horizon win. But most of all, we are thankful for you guys and this community that we've built. So I love the responsible we ve been getting, really love hearing all this good as much as we do, like all something come out of this. So I like, be a little.

a little to you. okay? So this one is from Jennifer age, and IT definitely, definitely gives me so much to be grateful for. Hi, actually, bread and all of the incredible staff at audio talk, which I node I like.

Thank you much for like saying something about our real incredible and forty nine years old and live with my family in westfield in inDiana. Unlike many of the other letters you receive, I have not been the victim of a crime, nor has anyone in my family. However, when I was sixteen, my parents decided to move to india, enjoying a fringe religious group of I was part of that for over twenty years.

After much soul searching, trauma and tragedy, I finally came to understand that i've been living in a cup as a part of this group. I was not allowed to go to college or have a job outside of the call. You maybe wondering how this has anything to do with you all our crime junky.

I love her. But like, I don't like, clearly, you've been listening to member .

well for as long as I can remember. Like literally, since I was about ten years old, I was my dream to become a lawyer from a Young age. I have been passionate about justice for victims and for those wrongly convicted.

I knew I could help change the world by working in the legal field. However, growing up in a cold that wouldn't allow women in the workplace, I gave up on that dream many years later, after we escaped the call and I started my reentry into the real world. I just assume that dream was gotten, and that I had to agree what could have been during the beginning stages of my healing journey, from the trauma of being in a cold.

I discovered you in your podcast. I couldn't get enough. Yes I am with hot er fan club member have been event until everyone I meet about the incredible work you all are doing.

That passion for fighting for justice was reignited things in large part to the work you're all doing. After much soul searching, lots of therapy and self reflection, I have realized that I am the only one who can decide de my destiny. Yes, girl, the passion for justice still burns hot in my soul, watching what you at audio talk have accomplished victims, their families.

And the narrative around true crime has motivated me to grab my dreams and run. That being said, at the age of forty nine, I have applied and then accepted into college as a first semester freshman. I will be major in criminal justice with the hope of going to law school once I have my undergraduate degree.

Is IT a lofty and possibly crazy goal? probably. No.

never, never. But you all have .

inspired me to fight for my dreams and help change the world by advocating for victims and their families. I hope someday to meet you all in person. Actually, let's be honest, working for auto, I could be an absolute income.

Grow you just around the corner. I know what. Look on.

Thank you again for all the work you do for victims, for teaching us the life rules of a crime junky, and for inspiring so many of us to never give up the fight for justice. Oh, here's two. Oh I got chills. A long season of justice who gratefully gennifer er age and to women .

not stepping aside to taking the .

rains .

this letter so much IT is never too late to take back the rains of your life .

to stinking the weird destiny and it's such a powerful d yes women of .

the world have so much to offer I love this and I love all the time at forty nine she's that's .

the thing is like .

this I hear so many people say, like I it's too late for me. It's to like start over or like switch creaative. I want to be .

completely honest. When we started going we said we were gona give IT a year one d thirty. We have to get serious.

Yes, IT doesn't happen by then. It's over for us. We said.

yeah and I think I feel like i've been someone who, like, my whole career has been like, I tried this and was like, I kind of like, like what else and I I kept making like, drastic changes. You get one life to find your destiny and be happy, and it's never too late. So many skills can be applied to other areas. What you can't like get a degree for is passion and hard work.

And I think dream like she's been dreaming about this.

Yeah so that he was, I know, I know, that's what I love and is what we live on your child. Like show me the ideas, like show me the passionate, the hard work like that. You can't teach that, which is like a good plug for you guys.

We're always hiring there a team of like to sixty five people now in india, constantly growing audio truck dot com. Our website always has job openings. We've got a career page.

Jennifer, I feel I will definitely be connecting. We gotto find a way to me in indy for sure. And maybe someday you'll find your self a audio jack, or anyone listening.

Who knows? Crime junky is an audio check production. So what do you think, chuck, do you prove?