Indecent Proposal: Czechoslovakia
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Conan O'Brien needs a fan. Want to talk to Conan? Visit teamcoco.com slash call Conan. Okay, let's get started. Hey Janice, meet Conan and Sona. Hello! Hi! Hi guys. Wait, first, Sona has to laugh. You laugh at the start of every rowing workout I do. Oh, okay. Alright, well, say something funny. Um, you're really good at what you do. Come on, man! Perfect! Perfect!

Perfect. I've never had a better assistant. I've never had a better assistant. Your workout's done. Okay, awesome, awesome. Here's a word. Hey, Dr. Janice, may I call you Dr. Janice? Yes, hey. First of all, I love your leather jacket. You look very cool. Thank you. And I'm curious, where are you right now? Miami Beach. Oh, you're in Miami, okay.

I was in Miami not too long ago, did some podcasting there at the Sirius XM Studios in Miami and had a very nice time there. It was lovely. So I congratulate you on living in Miami. That's very nice. Well, it was a very worthwhile decision. Yes, I think so. And Dr. Janice, what kind of doctor are you? What kind of doctor? That's what I usually ask people when I meet them. What kind of doctor do you think I am? I'm a sex therapist.

Hell yeah. Oh, wow. Oh, she is. No, that's right. I try not to tell people too much, you know, like on a plane, because then they'll speak to me for hours.

Right. That's okay. No, exactly. It's like, you know, I think it's probably akin to telling someone you're a dermatologist because everyone then wants to show you, hey, what is this on my arm? What do you think? And they just want, basically they want free advice. And that's what you would get if you are sharing an airplane seat with someone and they find out you're a sex therapist. Suddenly they're asking you all about sex. Yes. And I told my kids to wear hazmat suits when they listen to this because I said, I'm going...

Wherever you go, I will go with you. Well, fortunately, Dr. Janice, this is a very upstanding podcast. Wait a minute. I was listening. I was listening. By the way, I have to say hello to David because I see it's David, not Matt. But anyway.

I was listening just to kind of refresh my mind. What did I come across? Your fantastic discussion about Santa Claus pornography. Oh, my God. That's scarred. I remember that. I can't remember it. And his wife, Sandra Claus. Yes.

And how he kept asking her to get onto his North Pole. Yes. Wow. Well, remember when I said this is a high class podcast? Yes. I was talking about a different podcast. That's... A history podcast I listen to. That's right. But, okay, so you're a sex therapist. You've been doing this for a while. I am.

And tell me, okay, I'm going to try and cut to the chase here. Most people, when they come and talk to you, what do you think the big issue is societally among people? What's the big hangup that people have about sex? Have you seen a trend? Do you think there's a common problem that most couples have or most people have? Oh, we're going to go serious. Okay. By the way, I teach, I train sex therapists. That's my main thing. But-

The biggest issue, the biggest problem people have are expectations because most people these days learn about sex from pornography. And that is not real. That's scripted adult entertainment. There's a great place for it. It's fantastic. But that's not how sex goes. Right. It's not someone comes to the door with a pizza and...

They say it's got extra sausage and then music starts to play. You're talking about the plot? I think she's talking about the actual sex that happens. Oh, and what is... Oh, okay. Do you mean the duration? No, because he thinks that's real, Sona. I have found, much to my horror and shock, that most pizza delivery people just deliver the pizza.

And then you pay and they leave. You didn't do anything weird, right? Well, I asked them, does it have extra sausage? And they said, you didn't even order sausage, Mr. Ryan. And I've got to go. I've got seven more Domino's deliveries to make. And so, you know, I'm just always confused. That's how my expectations are not met. But my question for you is, is it about, what is it?

that porn is doing? Is it porn, the sex act seems to happen instantly and last for hours because there's these different montages? It's instant.

All partners have orgasms. There's no hair in the wrong places. There's no people falling off the bed. There's no stopping in the middle because you changed your mind. There's no, you know. Do people ever, I mean, my thing is I stop in the middle sometimes because I forget what I'm doing. Oh, no. It's not changed my mind. I literally blank out. And I think I'm at the bank. What?

Oh, no. Yeah. And I'm like. That's not okay. Well, no. I just. It's a problem I have. This is peculiar to me. Uh-huh. Okay. All right. And sometimes I'm at the bank and I think, well, anyway, that's a whole other thing. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. God, we have to pay so many people off. So. Oh, no. What's been in the paper. Okay.

So anyway, Dr. Janice, so yes, the expectations are all off the charts because people are watching porn and they think that's real. And I would guess that this is mostly a problem for young people, that young people...

Long before they've had sex for the first time, they've watched stuff online and they think they have to be an athlete, that sex is this instant athletic thing that lasts forever and involves all these contortions. And it's intimidating to them, right? Well, not just for young people, people who think that they won't be able to satisfy someone.

Oh, they think, you know, there's there is porn with older people, too. But there's it's just everyone has a notion who watches a lot of porn and

that, you know, first of all, a lot of times they're disappointed with their partner. They, you know, people, a lot of people don't look great with their clothes off. So especially been in a relationship for a while and your partner's body has changed. There's a whole mindset that has to go into how do you keep the romance going when you both don't look like you're 24 anymore. Yeah.

Right. And that takes a little work, especially if you want to stay, you know, with that one partner and stay, you know, not bring other partners into the relation, into the, your sex play. Hello. So. Yeah. No, let's talk about that. Let's talk about bringing other people in. Oh, what? Okay. Well, no, listen, listen, Dr. Janice brought it up. So I'm allowed to follow that line of questioning. All right. I think the court, does the court allow it? The court allows it. Thank you. Okay.

So Dr. Janice, bringing someone else into the equation, that's a mind blower to me. I've never thought about that. I would never do that. It goes against everything in my personal belief system. But man, is it an intriguing concept because I don't understand how someone brings that up in the first place. How does someone say, hey, I want you to meet a pal of mine. His name's Oscar. How does that come up? How do couples get to that point?

It really needs to be a conversation and not, "Hey, look who's with me, can we?" - I wanna say, the times I've tried it, I've just shown up with someone. - Oh no! - Yeah, I was like, my car broke down on the 405.

Right near Sepulveda. And look who I met. But does the person you bring know what they're coming or? No idea. No idea. They're new in America. Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah. Welcome to America. They're from Portugal. They thought I was bringing them to a hotel. It's all. Look, I'm not always above board about it. But do you work at all with people that are into bondage?

sadomasochism, all that kind of stuff? - Well, I train therapists to work with people who do that. But the thing is, I wanna tell you BDSM people, this whole bondage dominance issue with whips and chains and a variety of different kink things and on and on and on, they talk about it. They negotiate before they get into sex play.

They say, what do you like? What's your safe word? Where can I touch you? Where can't I touch you? They have conversations. Whereas the average individual who doesn't do that doesn't have a conversation. So you're nervous the entire time. I don't want them to touch me here, but I don't know them that well. I don't want to tell them this. You know, there's so much that goes in that could be cleared up if you talked about it. And that's one thing we could learn from the BDSM program.

is to talk about it before it happens. You love talking about that kind of stuff. Well, that's what I was going to say. Seriously, I come from a culture where none of this is discussed. You don't talk about anything. You just get through life and get to the grave as fast as you can. And get to rotten. Get to rotten.

Get to moldering. What are their special when you're talking to someone or instructing someone on how to teach somebody? Are there certain tools that you use or that you ever use any kind of puppets, puppets, props, other things like that that help? Sure. Well, people, first of all, I I'm not against porn. I think I think.

couples who want to watch porn together and have a lot of fun and make that part of the activity could have a blast as long as they know that that's entertainment that they're enjoying together. They can act it out together. So there's a use for it. Actually, there was a very funny one

One of my favorite Korn things that I watched with my husband, who will be mortified that I'm saying this, but it was this Korn from Czechoslovakia. So they weren't even speaking English. It had very bad subtitles. Who cares about that? But it was a guy and he was telling his girlfriend that they needed a crock pot. And this, apparently this guy in an apartment would trade his used crock pot if he could sleep with his girlfriend. Oh.

So she goes, oh, okay. And so they go up to the apartment. And meanwhile, that guy starts stooping his girlfriend. And he's sitting there next to the bed. Wait a minute. Holding the crackpot. Wait a minute. This is the plot of that Robert Redford, Demi Moore movie. Indecent Proposal. Indecent Proposal. And that was a million dollars. Okay.

And the Czechoslovakian equivalent is a crockpot? Yes. So Woody Harrelson would be in the corner hugging a crockpot while a Czech guy is doing it with Demi Moore in indecent proposal Czechoslovakia.

You know, it's funny because I'm producing a movie about a sex therapy topic, a very unique type of sex therapy. I would love to have the budget of the Crock-Pot. I'm telling you, that would be amazing. Right. If I could do it for $14.93. You know what? We need to check out Czech porn. And specifically, the subset of it, Czech Crock-Pot porn.

I know. I'm down with that. There may be a lot. I don't know. There may be a good thing. You know, my guess is it's not always a crock pot. Sometimes it's a toaster. Sometimes it's a jar of goulash. I don't know. The mind boggles. The mind boggles. The mind boggles.

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Pulling up to Mickey D's just for drinks. Oh yeah, that's me. Nothing extra, just perfection and a straw. Coming in hot for the coldest cups on the block. Because there are drinks. Then there are drinks from McDonald's. Mix things up with any size lemonade or sweet tea for $1.49. Perfect with our classic fries. Price and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba.

You said that sometimes props are used. Have you used puppets, diagrams? Well, yeah, all of the above. I mean, there's a lot of people, a lot of females, you know,

what in the in my world, we call them, you know, vulva and vagina possessors, owners, who don't know what their body looks like from the waist down because they never looked. So we help them get to know who they are, by looking at pictures by looking at diagrams. And yeah, toys, vibrators, lots of things because the bedroom should be a fun

And a lot of times it turns into a real tense place where there's a lot of emotions and conflict. Insecurities. Insecurities. False accusations. You got it. Oh, no, am I saying too much? No one's forcing you to even say anything. Listen. You chiming in. We brought a puppet into our bedroom. It was a ventriloquist dummy. Oh, no. And it got out of control fast. What did you do with it? His name was Mr. Chuckles. He was out of control. He was a freak. Oh, no.

Who was controlling Mr. Chuckles? You know, I thought I was, and then Mr. Chuckles just took over. And then it ended up, I was out at the pool house by myself. Yeah, I lived there for three months. Mr. Chuckles just took over. Because Mr. Chuckles brought a crackpot. Your kids started calling him Dad. Yeah, exactly. Mr. Chuckles is great. Mr. Chuckles just drove me to my college interview.

Listen, it happens. We have to also cancel people what to do when a puppet takes over their sex life. We have to help them with that adjustment. Mr. Chuckles took me to Brandeis.

Listen, we got to, we got to, this is out of control. Now, is it someone, my producer said that sometimes you use a gingerbread man and I have to just cut to the chase and I demand to know, how do you use a gingerbread man? I demand to know. You demand to know. No, because it's all about communication. If you have people who can't communicate what their needs and wants are,

What you can have them do is take the outline of a gingerbread person, you know, remember those? And one partner has a sheet, the other one has a sheet, and they each color it in wherever they colored green,

their partner can touch them without asking go for it where they color yellow please ask I might say yes I might say no and red is absolutely don't touch me and that way if you know that day for example you absolutely don't want your feet touched they're very sensitive you're ticklish that distracts you you don't have to sit there and kind of tense up oh my gosh

You know, this person's going to touch my feet. Don't touch my feet. You know, you can relax because it's all agreed upon with the picture. Right. Then it turns out your lover is colorblind. Oh, no. Then you have another issue. So it's not a gingerbread cookie. It's the outline of a gingerbread man. So you're upset about it not being a cookie. I just was hoping it would be a cookie. Oh, okay. Yeah. But it could be a cookie. They could do the colors and then they could eat the cookie. Yeah.

Yeah, and the frosting could be different colors. And so there's this, you know, oh, you know, oh, look. You should want to eat a cookie. Yeah. Definitely could do that, without a doubt. And it's all for where you're touching. Is there a different color for probing, various probing areas? What? Well, that's touching. If you don't want them to go inside, then you can like put a note, you know, red inside. I just put Post-its on my body. Okay.

Post-its? Yeah, I have a post-it that I... It works. By the way, post-its are great. Like, why use a cookie or anything when you can just put messages on your actual body? Do not enter. That's sexy. Yeah. Yeah. Do not enter.

No touching. That's why they were created. It's all over your body. Please stay off the pubes. I have a little sign down there. It's like a stay off the grass, but I may have gone too far. Curb your pet. Yeah. Clean up after your pet. A little squatting dog with a Ghostbusters thing over it. He's in my armpit.

Dr. Janice, I think nothing's sexier than good laughs and comedy. Yeah. Well, that's why the whole thing, you've got the cookie, you've got the porn, if you can make fun of it and enjoy it together. That's dressing up is fun. Role play is fun. The other thing too is to understand the expectations in general.

penis owners, men tend to function differently in the course of the sexual process than women do. Men are very much focused on getting the touchdown, which would be the orgasm. So they kind of climb, plateau, have the orgasm and then the cigarette, you know, like that. And we used to believe that women were like that too, but we now understand that women enter into it in more of a circle and

They enter the circle. They could, for example, enter sexual activity without being turned on, but because they want to cuddle or because they want to make comfort their partner and give that person the gift of having sexual expression. But what happens with women is a lot of times once they get involved,

they do get turned on. Whereas a guy gets turned on and goes, a woman might not be turned on and start to get turned on.

Or she may get distracted. Kind of a woman has what we call breaks and accelerators. You might be in the middle of sex and all of a sudden you remember you forgot to pack lunches for the kids tomorrow. And all of a sudden you lose interest. I mean, it's a real different thing for the typical female. That's interesting. Yeah, men are about, you know...

What is it, Larry the Cable Guy says, get her done. You know, it's like that. It's that we're very focused on we're going to do this and it's going to happen. And then, you know, there's going to be an orgasm. And, you know, it's a very intense 40 seconds. And from start to finish. But here's the thing. Guys judge if they have female partners. They judge them in the same way. So if the woman does an orgasm, the male...

a man tends to feel that it was a failed activity. So that's where you get the women lying about orgasm going back to- - Well, I have to say during my single years, many times it would end with the woman saying that was a failed activity. They would just say that. - That was a failed activity? - I heard that phrase many times. That was a failed activity. - Like a robot? - Well, they sounded kind of like Trump. - A buzzard like a game show. - That was a failed activity.

Yeah. No, I just, of course, just of course. A woman could have a good time even if she doesn't orgasm. She might have really enjoyed being together, really enjoyed the conversation, the laughing, the cuddling, the attention, and said, I had a good time. I didn't orgasm, but I wouldn't mind doing this again. So, yeah. I wouldn't mind doing this again. You know,

You know what, I have to tell you, I've been married 42 years. There's a lot of I wouldn't mind doing this again, so. Yeah, that's very nice though. I think you're, it's refreshing to talk to you. You know, people have so many, no, people, myself included, you know, we, there's so much, people get so hung up on it and yeah, it's very nice. Very nice to talk to someone who just says, hey, we're human, this is what's happening. Yeah.

I like it. It's good. - Thank you. We're human and this is what's happening. - I know. I'm proud of you. I am. I'm proud of you. Every time you hear, you would hear words like vagina, vulva, uterus or like fallopian tube. - I think two of those things are Italian cards.

You just, sometimes you're like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You don't want to hear it. No, no, no. You don't want, but also, I don't think women want guys going around, you know, throwing those terms about. There's no, they're clinical terms. There's nothing wrong with it. You just get very, ugh. No, no, no, no. Let's ask you. You are married to Taka Katsizian. Okay, that's not his name. Well, it kind of is. But anyway. It's not just because he's saying it. Anyway. Okay. Whatever. Whatever.

You've been married. Yeah. Both a very attractive young couple. Maybe you have things that you'd like to talk about right now with Dr. Janice. I mean, it's more time management issues. Because she has twins. And I'll tell you, I love these kids. I'm their godfather, but they're monsters. They're absolute monsters. They're marauding. They're toddlers. No, no. I'm saying that with great affection. Oh, okay. They're monsters.

They're always in the background when I'm Zooming with Sona destroying things with hammers. I don't know why you give them hammers. No, they're hilarious. I love your kids. But yeah, I would think time management would be the problem. It is. How would you ever get it? So Sona, that's another misconception is people think that sex has to be spontaneous because that's what they see in these wonderful porn movies and that's what they believe is the ideal. And really the best sex is play.

You know when the kids are going to be asleep or they're sleeping over somewhere else or you and your husband go and take the night out at a hotel. Yes. It's got to be like D-Day. You've got to have a plan. Oh, come on. No, you have to have the English and the Americans and the French involved. And you all have to take the beach, you know. And look, there's going to be loss of life.

especially in the first couple of waves, but you've got to take the ground. You've got to hold the ground. You've got to get into hetero country. You've got to make sure that, you know, eventually you get down into the maiden countryside of France, you know, before the, and you've got to make sure that you do it before the Luftwaffe can use air superiority. Oh no.

- But yes, this is exactly, this is exactly what I'm always yelling at my wife. It's like D-Day. - Yeah, yeah, that's some sexy talk. - Yup. - That is good sexy stuff. - She cries every day for two hours. - Yeah, I don't blame her. - Dr. Janice, do you have a question for me? Is there a way I can help you? - I do have a question. I have a question for everybody. I'm gonna include David who is a guest today. Okay.

I'm teaching actually tomorrow to a group of 40 therapists who are learning to be sex therapists. If I invited you, Sona, and we'll throw in Matt, who's not here, and David to come to class tomorrow,

to speak to my sex therapy students, what would you teach them? Nice. I love this. And I love that I don't have to get involved. You guys, go ahead. Sona, what would you say? I mean, I know we're not... And Sona, let me just tell you, Dr. Jess, before she was married, Sona was quite the adventurous... Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Well, anyway. Hello.

I know you say about porn and stuff, but you're pro-porn. There is a porn video I found. I've talked about it on this before. It's a fisting video. And so there's all these like fun things. So I would, if I was a guest lecturer, I would come in and I would talk about like, you know, padlocking and

you know, the fisting things, even though I'm not an expert on those, I'm definitely not. But also, you know, like those acts that people do like the, you know, the angry pirate and the Cleveland steamers and stuff. Like I would love to be a guest lecture on those, even though I'm not well versed in them. And I apologize for calling her an adventurous in any way. You just rattled off Cleveland steamer Popeye's revenge.

- I don't know, 'cause you go on Earth

- You go on Urban Dictionary and you go, I know I'm really, really nervous. I know you're like buttoned up 'cause you're Catholic, but I'm from immigrant parents. This is very intense for me to talk about. So anyway, I would like to do an Urban Dictionary deep dive if I was your guest lecturer. - And David, your turn. - I would absolutely like to. - David Hopping, take it away. - That would be terrific. - What was that music video we watched? - Oh, I forgot the name of it. - I feel like that would be a fun one to show everyone. - It would be, I wish we could film it.

- I'll figure it out. - It was like number three on like Vulture's top 10 music videos of the year. - From like six, seven years ago. - But it's like a really nice song in the background. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Why don't you look it up? Do you have your phone? - Oh man. - Just look it up. - By the way, Conan, you're talking about a restrictive background. I happen to be an Orthodox Jewish woman. Throw that one in. - Well, I think there is a lot of similarities. I talked to this- - House of Air? - House of Air? - Is it House of Air? - We'll view it.

Tony, you can come, you can come on my podcast, intimate conversations with Dr. Janet. I have, uh,

No, I believe there are many similarities between the Orthodox Jewish community and very strict- And porn? And Irish Catholicism. Oh, without a doubt. Yeah, I don't know why you went there. I was trying to make a nice, interesting cultural point. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Sona, when I implied that you knew you was an adventurist or had some adventures, that was totally out of line. And then you went into naming your favorite fisting videos.

Captain McNulty's Skylark. I mean, I can't... The drunken sailor. I've never done any of those things. I can say that. Like, I, you know... No, when I said adventurous, I meant you read widely. Like a scholar. Okay. But you were quite chaste in your activities. Oh, boy. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Anyway, do you find the video? It's House of Air by Brendan MacLean. Yes, that's... And it's something you're recommending? House of Air by Brendan MacLean. Well, listen, you have some great fodder for your talk tomorrow with your therapist. Thank you. Do you want to add anything? Well, it's not the topic, but that's okay. Yeah. What do you want to add? What do you want to teach? What would you teach? Uh,

- Well, I was so happy that I wasn't included. - I know, that's why I'm putting you on the spot right now. - You're so excited to not have to say anything? - I think I would sort of talk about how erotic it can be just to keep your clothes on. - It can be. - And be in separate rooms.

each reading a different book. I think that is the height of eroticism and I think people have taken this whole nudity thing too far. Nudity just leads to trouble, I say. No nudity. That's my mantra. And I can't wait to speak. That actually, keeping your clothes on can be incredibly essential. Oh, I'm clothed right now and I'm in a high state of erotic...

- Well, okay. - Oh no. - Nice to know. - Trust me, nothing's happening. I'm just saying my mind. - We're not even gonna ask David what that brings to mind.

Good Lord. Janice. Good Lord. No, no, no, no, no. What's way out there. Listen to this story. Uh-oh. One of my mentors, sex therapist, she was a pastor's wife and became a surrogate partner. Do you know what that is?

A pastor's wife who became a surrogate partner. Okay, go ahead. She's someone who is not- Yeah, a surrogate partner. The sex therapist does the talk therapy, but when you have someone who is like a 40-year-old virgin, terrified to even be near someone, never kissed, someone on the spectrum, someone who's had a lot of trauma, they can't just go out and use your advice and go date. They're terrified. So what you do is you get a surrogate partner and that's someone who will practice with them. Oh, okay.

And she became the person... This is so not... Some of your face is like... I didn't know. Your eyeballs. You know the cartoon eyeballs? I have a question. Is that... So they'll have sex with this person. They will have sex. If that's... It's supervised. The whole...

Process is under the supervision of the therapist. Therapist meets with the client before and after each session, only a few sessions, and will direct what happens next, where do they move to next in their next session. And it might include intercourse. Yeah, but if it includes intercourse, is it legal? Yeah.

Well, first of all, it's legal. Actually, there's this there. I have a quote. That's a good question. That is a good question. I am curious. It's it's considered because it's with consenting adults.

And it's for the purpose of a therapeutic nature. Israel is one country that actually pays for the therapy. Someone who's been injured, lost a limb, has turned into themselves, can't connect with other people anymore. Their self-esteem is in the basement.

And you can get them with a surrogate partner who can kind of bring them back out, learn how to use their body again. Wow. Or even if someone's changing their genders and they don't really understand their body and they're not ready to go out and date because they don't really know what to do. You can work with. That's fascinating. It's like it's a practice partner. So that's what I'm making. I'm making a movie about it.

Oh, that's fascinating. When's this movie going to come out? When can we see it? We're tweaking the screenplay. We're almost done. And then I have to raise money from you guys. Okay. Don't worry. I'll take care of that. Don't worry about that. But if I contribute financially, I want to walk on. You know what? You can be on. Hey, what the heck? But I'd also like some prosthetics.

Anyway, we'll talk about that later. Dr. Janice, we should run, but you've been an absolute joy and you're out there and you're helping people. And I think you're doing great work. And so thank you for sharing your knowledge. Thank you. And by the way, you do great work too. I appreciate everything you do. I recommend your show always because it's just...

It's so fun. Whenever, no, even if I have to watch, listen to it, when I work out, I row every day, you know, indoor rowing, stationary rowing. And I want to listen to the political stuff, but I'll first listen to the opening of one of your shows. Oh, thank you. Great. Like who cares about your guests? I really like to hear you guys. Thank you. And you guys schmooze because you guys are just insane, delightful. And then I go to the,

serious depressing stuff. But you're doing an incredible service. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Janice. That means a lot coming from you. You're welcome. We'll meet again, I'm sure. Take care. Bye-bye. Okay. Bye-bye. Thanks, guys. Bye-bye.

Take it away, Jimmy.

Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering by Eduardo Perez. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode.

And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.

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