Dr. Phil | Club Random with Bill Maher
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LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. I like your digs here. Thanks. You know, I've heard you talk about the concept of man cave. This is not a man cave because a man cave is something for a married man. Yeah, I guess that's right. This is just cave.

Why, do you have a main cave in your... You do? Yeah. And you think that this is necessary for a good for a relationship? Oh, yeah. I've been married 46 years. Come on. Yeah. That's so ridiculous. 46 years. That's amazing. We've been together 50.

Come the fuck on. Yeah. Really? How old are you? You don't look... 52. I was going to say, you know, you do look like you're in your 50s, so... No, I'm 72. Wow. You look good for 72. You look very healthy, you know? I just had a total knee replacement eight weeks ago. Really? Yeah. I hear that all the time, and...

People say it's like the next day you're like... First two weeks, you want to go punch somebody in the mouth. Because it hurts? Well, it's just irritating. It burns and all that. But I was back on a tennis court at three weeks.

And why do you, now I play basketball every day. Is my knee going to wear out? And why, it just happens because you're old? It hasn't yet. It's not. Really? Yeah. Oh, good. Yeah, I mean, if you've got cartilage in there and you're still running up and down the court, you're good. But I'm not 72 yet. Yeah, but you're right weight. You're in good shape. You can run up and down the court. Right.

Chances are you're going to be pretty good. Why? You think it's because the knee goes when you carry too much weight? Well, it's what you've done. I mean, I played football in grade school, junior high, high school, college, and then raced motocross poorly. And I was bone on bone. That sounds sexy. Yeah, it's not. I guess I'm thinking you're boning. But I must say, I'm very flattered that you came here because you don't know me from Adam.

Well, actually I do. That's not going to sound... My son used to do your show a lot. Jay.

That's not you. I know. I'm not going to pretend like I've seen every Dr. Phil episode, but that to me is what almost makes your success all the more impressive to me because I'm always impressed when there's like something that like I did not even choose to know about, but it becomes such a cultural phenomenon that I actually know a lot about it.

Like I know a lot about the Kardashians and I don't ever watch the Kardashians, but there's something to that level of permeating the culture. I've always thought shrinks were the craziest people in the world. Is that wrong? Well, I saw a study a long time ago that said most, and I don't know if it was bullshit or what, but it said

An awful lot of people go into psychology originally because they're all screwed up and they think if they study it, they'll figure it out and get better. Right. Oh, that's interesting. And I saw a follow-up that said, did it work? And it said, not even almost. So we got a bunch of people that got into it for that reason and it didn't help them. But I don't know whether that was... I mean, you know, they say that some people can't be hypnotized and I feel like some people can't be shrunk.

Like, I don't think I can be, I know I can't be hypnotized because they've tried and I wanted to. And I feel like when I, the few times, I won't go into detail, but it didn't happen much when I was talking to a psychiatrist as a patient, sort of, I just felt like, I mean, it was all I could do from stop.

busting out laughing out loud sometimes because I thought what they were saying was so preposterous and just such guesswork. Like just, yeah, it could be, it could be anything. You know, just this, uh,

always over trying to connect something or make significance out of something when I think a lot of things are just very random. I don't know if they were really believing it, what they were saying, or they just felt like, I'm the doctor, I'm the shrink, I have to say something here to make this significant, and it wasn't significant, I don't think, or we don't know. And I also felt like

You're telling me about me, but of the two people in this room, I feel like one of us has so much more information on who me is, and that would be me. Yeah, well, you maybe were the wrong kind of person. I mean, there's different kinds of therapy. Maybe you were with a Freudian or something that was trying to talk to you about your mother or something. It was, yes.

Well, I don't know if the guy was a Freudian, but he did make a connection that was so preposterous when I told him that, I don't know how we were talking about this, but my mother was in World War II as a nurse. She was in London during the V bombings, you know, when Hitler sent the rocket, the Blitz, you know. And he somehow connected that.

to like, I don't know, but I remember laughing when I got in the car, like, okay, it's Hitler's fault, whatever I was talking about. And, you know, that is my like impression of psychiatry. It's like, whatever I say, you'll try to make something out of it because you have to, or else you're out of a job. Yeah, I was never that way.

No, you're very practical. That I know. Yeah, I know a lot of 75-cent words. I just try not to use them. It seems to me you can get help talking to anybody. I mean, if you've got a common-sense mechanic working on your car and you shoot the shit with him and somehow another thing starts to get clear, you go, hey, that makes sense. And you walk away feeling better. Right. You know, there are some people in this world that have what I call health-engendering personalities.

And I'll bet you know people like that, that you just feel better after hanging around with them or talking to them. You feel better hanging around with them. You just feel better about yourself. There are some people that way. It could be the janitor that cleans up at the building. It could be your buddy from grade school. It could be your parent. It could be anybody. But there are just people that have that kind of personality that you feel better about you after being around them. Is that your wife?

I feel good about myself being with her. She's pretty easy to hang with. No, but does she make you feel this quality you're talking about? I noticed you left out wife in the list. You mentioned the janitor first. Yes. I mean, it could just happen anywhere. Yeah.

I know, but like, it could be anywhere, but I would rather, if I was married, I've never been married, that's a very big difference between us. - Yeah, you wanna talk about that? - Yes, sure I do. I mean, I, but look, I'll tell you, I've said this before, but like people think I'm anti-marriage. I'm definitely not anti-marriage. I understand marriage works for some people. It's just, we're different personality types. What works for you doesn't work for me.

I'll be honest, I don't understand it, but that's because I'm in my head. That's why I can't understand it. And I've read so many quotes about marriage, like, you know, who is it that said, it's like a sibling relationship with occasional bouts of incest. Have you ever been close? Yes. You got close? Yes. Yeah. But I always kept my toe out of the trap because I felt like I don't want a sibling relationship.

with occasional moments of incest. That sounds terrible. Yeah. I'm starting to feel really bad about my... I'm feeling really bad about it now. Well, Dr. Phil, you've come to the right shrink here because I'm going to help you. Do you have a drink that you enjoy? Okay. And how many drinks do you allow yourself? Of what?

Well, what are you drinking? Ice tea. Oh, you're not drinking alcohol. I haven't had a drink since the junior year of high school. See, if this was a professional show, I would know something like that. That's why I say it's not an interview. Because plainly, I should know that. My dad was a really bad alcoholic, and I just made a decision early on, ain't going to do that.

And I have nothing against people who do. My wife drinks, my kids drink. Right. And I have nothing against it. I just made a decision for myself. I saw what it did to him and said, I just don't ever want to go there. And pot, I'm guessing, completely off the plate. Yeah. And some of my best friends are like Ron White's one of my best friends.

He's actually sober now for almost a year, but he's drinking and smoking dope all the time. The whole time I've known him, but it doesn't bother me. It's just- Dr. Phil, we don't call it dope. Well, I know.

No, it makes you dopey. You know what's so funny? I'm like the last person in the world who does call it dope, but I love to call it dope. I think it's a great word for it. Our producers always tell me, quit calling it dope, you sound old. Like any drug to me is dope, but very often I'll be like, damn, where'd I put my dope? But you do, well, first of all, I'm sure you would allow as a man of science that this and alcohol are completely different drugs and one is much more benign, which is the one I'm holding.

Not the one I'm about to do. Yeah. And together, they're spectacular. Yeah, it's whatever works for you. Okay, so if you don't have the, you don't have a drug element in your life to make you happy, and marriage, okay, but like, come on, like nobody married that long can have the kind of sex you had like when you're single or when you're, you know, newly, you know, newly entranced with someone. Yeah.

So where does the zhuzh in your life come from? Like, is it all work? Is that what, you know, what gets your gonads gonading? Well, it depends on who you ask. If you're asking me, you get an answer different than my wife. She thinks I'm a workaholic, but... Right. Well, then that probably answers my question. You get it from work. Well, no, I do. I've been a jock all my life. I play tennis like three, 350 days a year.

really competitively. I love airplanes. I've been a pilot since I was a teenager. I love flying. I love all kinds, I got a lot of stuff that lights me up. - Yeah, I mean, honestly, I think all that stuff is sublimation for sex, but that's me. You know, I like, I always looked at society and thought, oh, people are golf. I mean, no one really could enjoy it, but okay.

I just feel like it's these things that people do to either get away from their spouse or because they're not getting whatever like charges them up in a marriage. Just not because the people aren't great people, it's just because the idea of being with the same person, it's got to rob you of like something that was there at the beginning.

that you then have to watch die. And then you get, like, snippy with each other, even though it's not each other's fault, because you resent

that person from, it's blocking that thing in your life that you know somewhere in your mind was the thing that at one point made you feel the best. Better than golf, better than bowling, better than whatever fucking thing is sublimating it. Well, I still don't know why you haven't gotten married, but I am fully understanding why nobody has ever married you.

I totally get that 100%. Do you really think- They'd fucking kill themselves. Do you really think a million bitches haven't tried? Oh, I'm certain some of them have entertained it. And then about a week into it, thought, oh my God. Trust me, the reason I'm not married is not because I couldn't be married.

I mean, girls always want to get married. You don't have to be doing anything that great. They just like marriage. I think that's half of them. It's the wedding. They don't even think past, they just want that one day. It's like, because the wedding is fun. Marriage is hard. You'll agree to that, right? Oh, I'll agree to that.

Well, see, that's the thing. Well, I don't want something in my life that's supposed to be the thing that gives me pleasure to be the thing that's hard. I hear it all the time. You ask people, how's the marriage going? First thing out of their mouth is some variation of, well, it's a lot of work. You know, it's tough. It's never like, yippee! You know, and why would I, I don't understand why I would, there's nothing I would trade for having to deal with that.

Yeah, well, I'll agree with you on this. If you ever have to give up being all who you are to be half of a couple, bad trade.

Bad trade. Wait, say that again. You've got to give up being all of who you are to be half of a couple. Right. Bad trade. You don't want to do that. Right. Because who you are. Right. But what if you are a guy who likes to drink and chase girls? There's not going to be like another person probably. But if that's who you are and that's what you want to do, then you're not married to a jury. I agree 100%. Oh, I know.

When I was dating Robin, she called me one time and said, hey, will you take me to my sister's house? It's up in Oklahoma. It's like an hour away. And I have nothing in common with those people. And I said, yeah, sure, I'll take you. And then about 10 minutes later, I called her back and said, no, I'm not going to take you.

And that's bait and switch, because I ain't going to take you later, so I might as well not take you now. And what's more, I won't ask you to go with me to see my mouth breather sisters. So let's just make a deal right now. We won't ask each other to be tortured by our relative sisters. Right.

Don't ask me to go see yours. I won't ask you. If you want to go see them, go. Have a great time. I'll see you when you get back. And I'll never ask you to go see mine. And we made that because I'm not going to, I don't want to go. So why would I tell you now I will? Now, this is an example of something where what you said before,

is very true to me. That's exactly what I would say. We're exactly alike on that. Yes, I would say the same thing. - But wouldn't it be bait and switch if I'm courting her, I say, "Oh yeah, come on baby, I'll take you up there." And then three months after we get married, I go, "I ain't going." - See, here's the thing about relationships, and maybe this is gonna make me sound selfish, but the deal in a relationship, and I've been in very serious relationships, the deal is that your problems become my problems,

and my problems become your problem. And I find this to be bad on both ends. First of all,

you can't help me really with my problems. I know people think they can. And yes, it's good to have people around you who can tell you the truth and give you good advice. I mean, it must be awesome to be married to Dr. Phil. It's like taking violin lessons from Paganini, you know? So, okay. But in my life, yes, people can reinforce you and they can hear it. But basically, again, like with the shrink, I know me best, especially at this point in my life.

If I have a problem, I know what the possible answers are. I can figure it out. I don't need this other partner to figure it out if the subject is me. If the subject is a million other things, yes, maybe. But on me, trust me. In fact, I never understand why people sometimes argue with you about what you yourself believe. Oh, Bill, you could do anything. No, I really can't. Yes, you could. Who would know this better?

I think me. Okay, so they can't help me with my problems. And honestly, I probably can't help you with yours either.

I love it that when you get together with somebody, you see each other at your best and you don't drag each other down with things that you're just really listening to someone. You're not helping and it's taking away from the thing being what it's supposed to be, which is the source of joy in your life. But you

Yeah, that's kind of true in some respects, but sometimes we don't see ourselves the best. Somebody might see things about you that you can't see. You ever try to look at yourself in the face without a mirror? You can't do it. You're not fast enough.

Well, yes, of course. But somebody else can come along and say, look, you're being a dick here. You don't want to do that. And you go, well, I didn't really think about it that way. They can give you feedback where you go, yeah, I hadn't thought about that. Even about yourself, you're not all knowing. Somebody else can point something out where you go, yeah, I didn't really look at it that way. That is true. But I feel like I have...

Again, we're talking about me now at 67. This is something I would be more germane when I was 27 or even 37 or even 47. And I'm sure when I'm 107, I'll look back and think I'm a douche now. But basically...

I can see a difference, as I'm sure you can. Once you get past 50, you've probably seen most of everything that's going to come down the pike, and you know you so well, and you just feel yourself making better decisions about stuff. Part of it is you just don't have as much, like, God knows what, running through your veins that made you wild when you were young. You're just better. So...

Yes. Is it possible someone can look at what's going on in my life and make a great suggestion based on something I'm not seeing? It is. I can't remember the last time it happened. And I have a lot of people around me. I'm very lucky. I've had some of the same people on my show for 30 years or almost 30 years. That's

And friends. And you know how great it is when you're older that you accumulate friendships throughout your life and you have friendships that have been going on for decades. So those people are going to be good people. So it's not like if I didn't have a spouse, there's nobody else who could tell me what's going on. So...

But do you listen when they tell you? Yes, of course. Okay, then there you go. You do have people that give you input. But I think a better thing to do is just don't act like a fucking nut. You don't have to marry them. I'm not acting like Kanye or something where people need to break in and just have an intervention and tell me, Bill, would you stop ranting about space lasers? I'm not doing anything weird because I was never a weirdo. Yeah, you don't know that that's not why I'm here. Yeah.

All these people could have got me over here to do an intervention. I was going to say. Chris and these guys could have got me in here to say, hey, you've got to straighten this guy out. Well, I mean, please. I hate to be that guy at the party who says, hey, Doc, could you look at my elbow? But as long as you are here, and I may never get the chance again, please, I mean, have a shot at me. I would love to hear you. Do you have any thoughts about how I could be better or what maybe I'm doing wrong? No, that's why I said I...

I'm probably the last person to do it because I think we think too much alike. I watch all of your shows. Oh, good. And you watch none of mine, so go fuck yourself. But maybe I'll start now. Well, now you're going off the air. Oh, bad timing. Yeah.

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Did you know HBO Max had podcasts? Now go even deeper inside your favorite shows with audio companions to some of the most groundbreaking and award-winning shows on television. Succession is an original series from HBO, and it's back for a fourth season. Every week, you can join journalist and host Kara Swisher as she unpacks real-world events that echo the saga unfolding on screen.

Guests include top journalists, writers, psychologists, as well as some of the people involved in making the TV show. Stream Succession on HBO Max and check out HBO's Succession podcast on HBO Max and wherever you get your podcasts. Well, you have a new show. What's your new show going to be? Well, I'm just taking a break and then I'm starting back up in January of 24. Yeah. A little different spin. What? Well...

And make no mistake, I'm very proud of what I've been doing. 21 years I've been dealing with what you say you don't need, which is giving input to people on their lives and their marriages and families and parenting and kids and drugs. Oh, yeah. You straightened out a million people. Even I know that. Yeah. But I have different concerns at this point.

I'm at a point in my life where I don't need to do anything. But I'm really concerned about what's happening in this country. And that's what I'm going to start dealing with are the psychosocial issues. You've got to do real time then. Yeah. Come on. I was going to do it a couple of times last year and the schedule didn't work out. That's what they always say when they just don't want to do it. No, that's not true. Okay. They told me

Okay. But you got it. But it's perfect to provide. I tried. I was scratching on the door. They wouldn't let me in. No, I promise you that's not the case. I've asked for years. No, that's not true. You talked to my kid, but not me. You just said it was scheduled and there was a scheduling problem. Not on my part. Not on your part. Yeah. Well, I apologize if that was the case. And I will fix this.

Because I don't know where that wire got crossed. No, I'm just kidding. But a perfect show to promote your new show. Because that's great. So give me your basic view, the overview, the 30,000 feet overview of where you think America is. I think it's headed for a cliff. Me too. I think it's heading for a cliff. Major reasons being...

Well, it depends on what category you want to talk about. And look, I stay nonpolitical because I think there's idiocy on both sides. There is. I see people in the State of the Union...

address on the right side of the aisle yelling liar at our president. I'm not a big fan of our president or the last one, but I respect the office of the president. And to see somebody screaming liar, that disrespects the office. I think the rest of the world's got to be looking at it going, God. But let's also pause a moment to say

you put in the same breath, you don't like this president and you didn't like the last one.

They are very different people, and one of them is much more of a threat to the republic, and that would be the 45th. Would you not agree? Well... Come on. Threat to the republic? Joe Biden? No. Joe Biden is a return to normalcy, yet a Democrat who is, yes, too much ensorcelled by his fringe left. He will not...

ever tell them to sit down and shut up. But I will take that bargain, much as I don't like it and it's bitter. I will take that bargain over Trump. Come on. Well, I'm concerned about both sides. And I'm particularly concerned about this woke agenda that's being pushed. Agreed. Right now. I'm concerned about what's happening in American colleges right now. Oh.

My God. Insanity. I don't think people know

I just don't think they know because I think, and I don't know, of course, I've not been on campus, but you can read so many first person reports and you can see, you can read that there's, it's in the literature of what the, these universities say they're doing or in their curriculum. I mean, there is like hard evidence of, oh yeah, this is going on. And then all the speakers that get chased off of campuses because kids, they, they're far from defending free speech. They don't even believe in it as a concept.

They are so spoiled and entitled that they believe that their feelings far supersede this concept of free speech. That is a complete decoupling of one of the utter basic principles that undergird this country, right? Well, let me tell you something. There was a time where if I had two candidates sitting in front of me

and they were exactly the same in every respect except one of them had a college degree and one of them didn't. Even if it was a degree in like art history or something, it had nothing to do with what they were going to be hired to do. And they were matched in every way. I would hire the one with a college degree because I knew something about them I didn't know about the one that didn't. And what I knew was

They could take on a four-year project and complete it. They could meet deadlines. They could get along with assholes that they didn't like, but it was their job to get along with them, tough professors or whatever. I knew that about them, that they could write papers, get things in on time, do this, do that, that they could take it.

I don't know that about them anymore. Correct. I don't know. They're coddled. Exactly. They whine. And they still get pushed through. And they're not required to take anything that is useful. Now, some of them do. We still have STEM degrees, and that's going up finally after years of not, I think, which is good. But I

I mean, you can graduate with such bullshit degrees of sports marketing and gender studies and advanced racist spotting and just this insane, indoctrinated... I mean, that is not an exaggerated term. No, it's not. And they're so smart. In what way? Just intellectually, these are smart in terms of just...

capacity to learn it is continuing to go up these kids are smarter than we were well I mean they're not being challenged they're not they're not why they're certainly not wiser no if you I mean it depends on skinned maybe you're saying that there are cues or higher there are certain ways that they're smarter they're certainly more savvy about

technology that we are not native to. Well, I'll put it this way. You can give them more digits and they can give them back to you in reverse than we could. They have more intellectual capacity. They have more working memory. They have more ability to learn in novel situations, but they're not being challenged. And why have people gotten so much smarter in one or two generations? Well, it's just the drift. I think they're getting...

The technology is stimulating their brains earlier. I think they're getting more and more input. But you do realize that when you, if we did a man on the street right now, like Jay. Oh, I've done it. Okay.

Like Jay Leno used to do with his jaywalking, all right? And if we just talked to, if there was every time we saw a Gen Z or a young millennial walk by in the sidewalk, we stop them and say, would you answer a few questions? We would find out very quickly that they know nothing.

They know nothing. Like if you said, what year was America founded? Like what year did we declare independence? They couldn't come up with that year, even though it's a Broadway show, which they also don't know what that is. They just don't know anything. We asked some the other day, where is the state of Utah?

And they said Canada. I shit you not. Oh, I heard one when the question they were asking is, I think, where is Venice? And the answers were like Paris. You know, like they don't even know what's a continent. Like it's...

It's frightening. So they may have the capacity to know, but they're not putting anything in there. And of course, obviously, there is a small percentage of kids, no matter what you do, the really smart ones will rise to the top and know lots of stuff. And, you know, I mean, probably 80% of people under 40

a loss to me with doing real time because to appreciate that show you have to know something. I try to make the news of the week palatable in a very entertaining way so that I don't leave anybody behind but if you absolutely don't know anything it's like I'm speaking Chinese. So if we're talking about NATO or

What's NATO? Okay, I'm dead already. Not that we're going into, let's not meet the press. We're not going into horrible detail about this stuff, but they're just like, when you are a tabula rasa, it's very hard to write. Well, let me tell you, millions, tens of millions of Americans cannot read at the most basic level. Right. And it's like 24% of eighth graders can't.

38% of fifth graders, and you can check those numbers, it changes each year, but can't read a basic sentence. But yet they're getting pushed on grade to grade to grade, and they can't read. - The bright side of that, of course, is that they don't need to, 'cause they don't read, because they scroll.

The phone, the portal to all evil, has made reading obsolete. People used to say, when they asked the question, like, what would you do if you had an extra hour in the day? And they would almost invariably say, I'd read. If I just had an extra hour a day, I'd love to. And people did used to at least read a little at night, maybe. Nobody reads. I mean, people ask me all the time, why don't you do a book? Because no one reads. That's why. Because I don't want to...

work on something that is not appreciated by a large number of people. And it's just like a dead form to so many people. And once you can sit on the phone and watch fucking, I don't know what they're watching on TikTok and dog videos and God knows what challenges and stupid things.

and scroll and shopping. That time suck was the worst thing that happened to humanity until AI, because now AI is going to destroy us completely, my prediction. Well, I'm scared about that as well. But like in 08, 09, it was like a big freighter airplane flew over the United States and dropped smartphones.

And at that point, people stopped living their lives and started watching people live their lives on the phone. And what happened is, at that point, they started comparing their lives to watching people live their lives.

And those lives they're watching being lived are fantasy. So everybody started watching this glamorous life somebody's living. They don't realize that that's all staged. And so they compare themselves. And by comparison, they think, God, my life sucks. And about that time, we started seeing the biggest spikes in depression, loneliness, and anxiety that we've seen since we started keeping records. Right.

And you've been a good one to call that out. And you are right about that also with me. We're very much on that same page. It's like seven times up for girls, four times for boys. Right. And the pandemic made it worse.

And what bothers me is they shut the schools down and they shut the country down knowing that that was the state of our young people's mental health. They knew that they were in dire straits and they shut down their world and isolated them knowing it was going to spike. And they did it anyway. What the hell is going on? Once again, we're on the same page there because I was a big...

Critic of that and you know now the chickens have come home to roost, but who does that? I mean they know that it's the highest level starting in oh nine and ten and they say well Okay, let's send them all home and isolate them who does it kovat paranoids. That's who does We have a new breed of people that's why I say politically I don't care because the Republicans started it the Democrats continued it and the kids

And this remote learning crap, if you look at some of the remote learning, particularly for grades first, second, third, they got zero out of it. They got zero out of it. That means they're now way behind. And if you're not reading on grade level at the end of the third grade, your likelihood of dropping out is like 6x if you're in a low socioeconomic group. Have you heard about microdosing? It's become increasingly popular for individuals looking to improve their health and performance.

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Well, you know, you can't avoid it anymore. You can't avoid it. And I need allies who are like where you and I are with. Yes, both. Now, again, I come back to Trump. You've got to like be on the page that he's worse than Joe Biden and very different than Joe Biden. Come on. It's not it's not politics that determine the outcome of society. It's culture.

I don't care about politics. You go back to the beginning and Democrat and Republicans have been in control about 50/50. They've had control of the House and Senate while they were in control of the presidency about 50/50. They've had it not in control 50/50. And look where we are. They both come up about the same place. I don't care about that. I care about our culture.

Okay, I'm disappointed that I can't get you to just out and out say that Trump is a completely different animal than the politics on the left and the right that we both agree is very lacking on both sides. It begs the question. He is a completely different element and much more dangerous. I mean, we're talking about some sort of

predator that was introduced into this wild, which was not a, it was a jungle in the first place. But this is a different element. This is, nobody else has ever tried to not concede an election in this country, try to overturn election. We all, even the people in his own party, understood that.

was lost. That is a Rubicon that we have crossed that makes him completely unique. A unicorn, if a unicorn was a big fat asshole. If I can't have your faith on that, it's very hard for me to understand where you're coming from on any issue.

I'm telling you. Doc, you can't do it. No, I'm telling you this. That's a cop-out. What difference does it make? A, he's not in power now. B, he's probably not going to be. And C, it doesn't... Let me ask you this. Wait a minute. Hang on. Hang on. You've read 1984 how many times? Once. You have a good memory.

I mean, it was like college time, but I loved it. And I certainly remember the gist, the ministry of truth. Yeah. And Oceania. Yes. The government came in. They said, we're going to tell you what words you can use. We're going to tell you what words you can't use. Yes. And if you don't do it right, we're going to unperson you. I agree.

all over that. You remember all that? I know. And by the way, the Biden administration actually tried to have this year a ministry of truth. They almost called, it was very close to that. I can't remember the name. It was close. It was close and it was exactly what that is. I agree. But even beyond that, let me tell you this. You think that's a bigger problem than Donald Trump? No, I don't. Because I don't think politics, I don't think politics are the big problem. What I'm telling you is this.

That's happening again, but it's not the government doing it. We're doing it to each other. This cancer culture, this cancel culture bullshit, we're doing what 1984 had Oceania, the government doing. We're doing to each other. I understand. I couldn't agree more. It's the culture that's the problem here. You're wanting to say, let's pick somebody and throw them against the wall, whether it's Biden or Trump or Bush or whoever. That doesn't matter. It's culture. You know what? One thing you have to...

have in a friendship, and I hope we're friends now for a long time, is the ability to air your differences and then just move on. Like this is what, this is a microcosm to me of what has to happen in America. You're Dr. Phil. You know, you're legendary for being a guy who like fixes other people's problems, a wise elder, and you are.

But I'm just not where you are and never will be on this Trump thing. And you're not where I am. And that's OK. And just like if we were in a marriage, I assume we now just move on. Right. I just know that about you. It doesn't make me dislike you or come close to hate. No, it just is like, OK, that's where this guy is. There's no universal judge who tells us which one is right. But.

We just go forward knowing that we're not quite there on that. Well, let me tell you something about me. Yeah? You want to know something about me? I want to know everything about you. Okay. And you can go back 26 years because I spent five years in the public spotlight on Oprah. Right. And then 21 years of my own show. And in that time, I have never...

spoke ill of someone in the public eye. I don't do it. And I'll tell you why. And I'll give you an example. Like I was on, I think it was Letterman or Leno the night after Mel Gibson had some kind of traffic mishap on...

Sugar tits. Pacific Highway. That's it. And he said the Jews caused all the wars. Kanye stole that from him. In the world. And they asked me, I forget if it was Letterman or Leno, but he said, well, what do you think about that? Blaming all the wars in the world on the Jews, Mel Gibson. And I said, you know what?

not his finest hour. Right. But it's 3 a.m. Right. He's out of the car. He's drunk. He blurt something out. I,

I would rather study the guy's 50, 60 years of life instead of judge him on 14 seconds on the side of the road. I'm not going to trash the guy. I don't know him. Okay. Well, first of all, you're in the public eye and you say something stupid. You have to expect to be trashed. And we all had a turn in the barrel. But to my point that kind of complements this is

Look, to say not his finest hour is a charitable way to say it, but okay, let's be charitable and just leave it at that. Moving forward, could I be friends with Mel Gibson? Yes, but just like you with Trump, I put that in my knowledge basket, like, okay, I know that Mel Gibson, because I know first his father is one of those cuckoo Catholics. So he has a thing about the Jews, probably because he literally thinks they killed Jesus.

Do I think that's stupid? I do. But like everyone has their thing. I put that away and go, let's move forward. But see, I don't know that. And I don't talk. I don't talk shit about people. Well, he. Individuals. I do know that about Mel Gibson. But I don't. So I wouldn't.

And if I did, I wouldn't talk about it publicly. Well, it's out of his mouth. So that's how I know it. And I just know, am I surmising that he's such a super Catholic and they believe that the Jews killed Christ? Okay, I am. But I mean, it's not a giant distance from one dot to connect to the other on that one. Some people just don't like the Jews, Doc. I know that's not like...

hold the presses, but a lot of people don't like the Jews. The Jews always seem to get a lot of animus when things get tense in the world. They're always kind of the go-to scapegoat. - Yeah, well I'm not one of those people. - No, I understand. I'm not saying no. You're in show business, you must love the Jews. You must know a million of them. - I do. But I just don't trash individuals.

I just don't do it. It's just philosophy. Well, I mean, one man's definition of the word trash could be critique, to put it in a more genteel way. And if you're going to be commenting on political matters or matters that are essential to how this nation is functioning, isn't it going to be impossible not to trash or at least critique individuals? Can we always keep it on such a general level?

Well, I don't know. Like when I said yell and liar at the president, I didn't even say who it was. We know who it was. I know. But why? Why? Who are we kidding then? Why? Why? It was Boebert and Marjorie Taylor Greene. Why are we protecting them? I mean, we...

I don't understand what this is buying you to hold this oath to not hold accountable any individual for anything. It seems like we're leaving out a big part of the equation.

Well, you don't need to understand it. You just need to... That's right. I'm Dr. Phil. I got mountains of money and plenty of fame. You don't need to know anything, son. Just pour me another drink. No, that's true. I mean, but I guess what I'm saying is like, I welcome your voice on matters of national importance and

in a more macro way. It seems, I'm guessing, but it seems like this is the evolution of where you're going in television. That you had 21 years when you talk to people. I mean, you talk to mostly couples, counseling, that kind of stuff, and troubled teenagers and families, and on a very individual, personal level that then had ramifications because lots of people watching were going through the same thing. Yeah. Right, and that was kind of- Every guest was a teaching tool. Right.

Now you're going to be painting on a broader canvas. Is that basically right? - Well said. I'm gonna steal that and take credit for having said it when you're not around.

But it's like now when I see what's happening on college campuses. I see all of this energy that's being put into pronouns. Like I said, a third of eighth graders don't even know what a pronoun is. How about we teach them what a pronoun is and then we can decide if we're going to talk to them about reassigning them.

I'm not saying that to be against transgenders, transgenderism or whatever that word is. I was reading some stuff just yesterday that's going into a book you were just saying nobody will read.

Well, your books, there are a few people who do sell a lot of books. I imagine you're one of them. I mean, there are people who sell in the millions, and I'm sure you are, but it is very rare. A novel sells 50,000 copies, and it's a bestseller. Yeah. 50,000. Yeah. No, I wouldn't do that. No. No, I know. But they have this big thing about the word of thee.

you know, they don't want to, it's not the homeless, it has to be those experiencing homelessness. Oh, I hate that. And they even said you can't use the word "the" when talking about the French. And the French ambassador said, "What am I going to have the, what is it, embassy of Frenchness?"

So I'm not changing the sign. What are you? But it's gotten ridiculous. It's so it's so beyond ridiculous. And, you know, people are always saying to me, Bill, you know, what happened? You make fun of the left so much more than they used to. And I always have to tell them, yes, because there's so much more obnoxious and so much more ridiculous. And not that most people on the left, I think, believe this stuff. But the ones who don't, my critique with them is you're fucking cowards because, you know,

You know the insanity of your own fringe, but you don't call it out. And my question is always like this stuff. Yeah, you're just saying about like the the French or the experiencing homeless. Why do we this is obviously something that teenagers put up on Twitter or Instagram or something. Why does the rest of the country, actual adults,

Bow to it and follow it and go along with it because everyone is rolling their eyes Almost everyone except the fucking 14 year old who posted that why do we follow? Teenagers, it's like it's like the Emperor's new clothes. I

I mean, you remember that fable, the emperor's parading around in his underwear, and nobody wants to say it because only a fool would not see the clothes. And then the little kid steps up and says, oh, the emperor's naked, he's in his underwear, or whatever. Everybody else is afraid to get labeled.

I tell you, we will get so much hate mail and tweets and stuff over our conversation right now. Fuck them. Words right out of my mouth. Fuck them. I mean, really. First of all, I will see none of it. So anyone who thinks they're hurting me with it, you're not. And you're just masturbating each other. It's just a big circle jerk of virtue signaling and just people who...

I mean, look, Doc, you are never going to

lack for fodder if you live to be a million because this country is so psychologically sick at its core. I mean, it's such a country full of mean girls, snitches and bitches and people who haven't done anything but they just invent things so that they can catch other people not being as right as them. I mean, your example about the homeless is perfect.

Liberals, this is my thing with liberals and woke, like you could believe whatever the fuck you want if you're woke. Just don't claim you're some kind of a advanced liberal. You're the opposite of liberal. Liberals are the ones who came up with the term homeless so that people wouldn't call them bums and vagrants and hobos. We did that. We came up with homeless.

Then they came along and said, that's not good enough. Actually, you people are the problem. It's people experiencing homelessness. You fucking moron. You know, that's the kind of thing that when people say, why do you make fun of the left? Because you just get under my skin like that. Do I think the right is more dangerous? Absolutely. Rationally, I do. Does this stuff make you viscerally hate more? Maybe.

Yeah. And my point about that is if they took all of that energy and put it in to solving the problem, I think there are certain things that we have to change about our approach. And this is where the psychological part comes in for me.

We've got to stop trying to win arguments and start trying to solve problems. And that is a completely different mindset. Stop trying to win arguments, start trying to solve problems. And then all of a sudden we have to start talking. You know what? Listening to you there made me think you must have thought about running for office. Because that, I think, is something that maybe TV...

you know like i don't have to say the name of that man donald trump to and ronald reagan also but especially trump to uh make the point that you know tv is the best stepping stone to not just political office but the highest political office trump won largely because he had this reputation as someone people had seen on tv for many many years

on a show where he was highly esteemed and an authority figure and people listened to him. And then when he rolled that into the presidency or to running for the presidency, he already had this sort of aura around him of this is a guy who should be the boss. I've seen him be the boss. And he really, I mean, and you're not Donald Trump. I mean, he's a moron and he's a dangerous narcissist. You could like...

I mean, you would start very high in the polls just to begin with. Here's the problem. When people label somebody a straight talker just because they can understand every word in a sentence the person says, that doesn't make them a straight talker. If somebody says, make America great again, and they go, oh, okay.

I understood every word in that sentence. That doesn't mean they're a straight talker. They just said a real simple sentence and connect with people. Something's gone way off. Something's gone. That's not a straight talker. That's just a simple sentence to speak to the least.

That's not a good idea. It really doesn't answer my question about you getting into politics. I know, but it was a good deflection. It was not, because I caught it. Well, no, but it was a good deflection, and it's true.

Okay, and this is again making my point that you seem destined for politics because you know That's what you're gonna do in politics. Look if you're a guy who doesn't want to ever Trash anyone else I would seriously advise you and get about of getting into the Republican Party Because that party is all about trashing

So you're gonna have a hard time there. I mean, they're all about the hate. But you could be the kind of person, if you would like, relent a little on the Trump issue, who could lead the Democrats back to the center where they need to be. Like you running as a Democrat is, Republican, you're dead.

because the Republican Party is, not only is it the party of Trump now, it's the party of post-Trump, meaning like even if they got rid of him, this horrible egg that he laid, this hateful sort of politics of grievance and no facts, that's permanently, that is the Republican Party. You don't wanna be in that party. But as a guy who would lead the Democrats back to a promised land,

Yes, you could do that. And you're in politics now that we've had Biden and Trump, not too old to do it. They used to say that that was too old, but not now. But you have to do it quickly. You don't wanna wait another 10 years. It's a thankless job.

I think for you it would be a great job because you are a guy who, like you say, you're a workaholic. You love your work. Your work gives you a lot of joy. Mine does too. That's where I spend most of my time, most of my energy. It's another reason I never got married is because I'm married to my work. And I always say to people about my show, my show is my kids. Why haven't you run? Well, because I...

Why haven't I run? Because first of all, I could never win. I don't have the same reputation. I have almost the opposite reputation. I mean, if you introduce me in a baseball game, which has happened, at least half the crowd will boo, which I take as a badge of honor. They either don't understand me or they're remembering something I said that offended them. But I've offended everybody. And also, I'm an atheist, pot smoker, unmarried, unapologetically. It's just all wrong. But you are...

No, not me, you. I'll be your secret advisor. But it has to be as a Democrat. You have to be that centrist Democrat that the Democratic Party definitely needs. I'm telling you, I'm onto something here. This was a very valuable hour we spent. Don't confuse bald with stupid. You don't want...

You think you're going to draft me under the ticket? I'm telling you, I really feel like this is important. Now, Doc, I will be at the MGM Northfield Park Center stage, formerly the Hard Rock, in Northfield, Ohio, on Saturday, May 20th. The 21st, I'm at the Mystic Lake Casino in Pryor Lake, Minnesota. June 3rd, I'm at the Met in Philadelphia. So you should let me read that. I'm promoting you instead of you promoting yourself. I wouldn't...

You know what? I esteem you too much to debate you with my stand-up plugs. June 4th, I'll be at the Wind Creek Events Theater in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. But do you have anything to plug besides the show that we can't know anything about? No, I'm just looking for work. I'm unemployed. No, you're not. You have a huge deal at CBS.

I know you have a scripted show coming on. Well, no. We've got So Help Me Todd, which is on Thursday nights at 9, and it's doing great. It's killing. Where is it on? CBS, 9 o'clock. CBS, 9 o'clock. That's your show. Scripted show, yeah. That's mine. And we're still, I've got two more months of Dr. Phil, April and May. Are you getting wistful about that? No.

No, it's doing great. No, but are you getting wistful knowing that like, oh, I've done this for so long and this is one of the last times I'm going to be stepping out on this stage? I mean, come on, you're going to get choked up the last show, no? No, we wrapped taping of originals last week.

And so you did it. Yeah. So I'm now working on. So you taped your last show? Yeah. Come on. You must have been reclaimed. It was it was a moving time. And, you know, my my boys were there with their wives and two of my grandkids were there that are old enough. And I've had the same experience.

professional assistant for 45 years and 45 years yeah she was there and you know i've had the same carla pennington's my executive producer she's been there the whole 21 years i've had the same seven cameramen for 21 years i've had the same director 21 years i've had you know the whole team's been there the whole time and a lot of them are going with me to uh when we launch off in january 24. when you've had a personal assistant for 45 years you know what that tells me

She couldn't find another job. You never threw a phone at her head. No, I didn't.

They can say a lot of things about you, but they can't say you threw a phone in anybody's head. You know, there she's quick. Right. That's Barbara. She's great. Well, whatever happens in the future, including running for president, which is a genius idea that I had, and I'm going to ask. Well, remember, you were the one. It was born right here. It was born right here. And I'm telling you, it's an unstoppable idea. I wish I had thought of that. You know, it's funny. I did an editorial post.

about, oh, I don't know, four years ago or something when Trump was in office saying that the person to run against him should be Oprah. And I meant it. And I don't know Oprah and I have no connection with Oprah, but I just thought, oh, as far as somebody who checks all the boxes of...

somebody who could win in america i mean the the goal posts have moved so far as to what is the criteria for a candidate and it is television television is where people suckle intellectually as sad as that is and when they see somebody who's smarter than the average bear and they respect um i mean look if trump did it but oprah's not going to do it and um

you know i mean we'll have to talk about vp that has to be a very careful pick we have to be the vp i am not that we first of all you can never have two white men that's true not anymore that's true not anymore and maybe it should be so you know i mean certainly diversity is an important thing and people need representation think about this

I'm watching my show in January of '24, election year. I intend to have a major impact on what happens. I think families in America are under attack. I think we've got to get rid of all of this noise and crap and get back to what matters. And I do intend to have an impact on that election. Well, I mean, there's, of course, another way to have an impact, and that is to actually win it.

But I understand what you're saying. Like, be a kingmaker and then right on, because, you know, you can go from that to you can go from kingmaker to then, you know, boy, I could do this better myself. But I agree, and I can't wait to see your platform of getting schools to teach the three R's again and get your son out of that dress. What a novel idea that is.

So you'll come be on my new show and I'll come be on yours. I appreciate that. Let's do it. All right. Come on, give. All right.