Katy Perry: Narcissists, Blow Jobs & Red Flags
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Okay, here we are. Here we are. Katy Perry, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Thank you. I am so happy we're doing this. My first question for you. Oh my God. She's already turned the tables. No.

is how edible are these are they a prop they are edible they are they are do you refill them we do refill them but I don't know the last time that I've refilled them but I eat from them and I eat the blue mostly what is your favorite sour patch color blue and red blue and red yeah I'm a blue and kind of freak like I'm a green girl you know how crazy it is I saw a meme of like a mom hand I

that had like only red and pink. And she's like, I have these so my kids can have these. And it was just orange and yellow. That's what I would do. And whatever color, whatever color is left. And I was like, that's a little you. You're sitting, you love this. Here's a little green, you little stinker. Yes.

What is your star sign? Scorpio. Five times. So all of my risings, moons, all that. What does that mean? Can you give us like the Scorpio rundown? Well, I'm kind of a cusp Scorpio with Libra. So Libra to me, and this is my paraphrasing, there's a lot of other people that are much better at this.

than I'm gonna even give you right now. Libras are the arts, liberation, and so I feel very connected to that. They're also very good with reason and organization. And Scorpios are like really intuitive. That's like our secret power is intuition.

And being five Scorpios in one, it's like when I walk into a room. That's why it was kind of like we were talking before this and I was looking at all. I was just getting all these context clues. All that is information for me. Interesting. To know what kind of person, how far I can go. Am I safe? Yeah. Are they good? Are they here with me? All that. So Scorpios are very intuitive. And for context, everyone watching, like Katie walked in.

We went through a whole tour of the house. She's walking around. We got upstairs. She's like, actually, let's go in the backyard. We did a whole walkthrough and no one's ever done that with me. And I actually appreciate it because you're like showing that you care and you're interested and you want to know what's up. You're also building a business. And so I like to see how you build. I like to see your entrepreneurship. I like to see what your next steps are. I'm invested, especially in like.

An alpha female, a female that is self-sufficient, that's taking the lead. I resonate with all of that. Coming from you, I just have to say thank you because I have literally been the biggest fan for forever and everything that you've built, like no one can say anything other than like you're an icon. So thank you for like taking the time out of your busy life to come here. Seriously. You're one of my, thank you. And you're one of my only interviews because I feel like you get it.

You get it. You speak to the people in a way that they want to hear. You know, you're super relevant and like you're real. Authenticity is...

important to me. I kind of grew up in a non-authentic childhood and so I was always looking for like who's the most authentic in the room? Who's going to cut all the small talking like look me deep in the eyes and go go straight for it. Right. Should we acknowledge my dog that's here? I don't know if we should. It's a real dog. Oh my

Oh my God. This is Nugget. Nugget. All of my fans know her, but if you don't know her, her name is Nugget and she's almost 10 years old. She is a permanent puppy. She's a micro teacup. So you see a lot of teacup poodles. She is 10 years old and she's a great dog. I was more of a cat person and I think I'm actually going to get a cat again very soon. I feel it in my soul. How many cats have you had in your life? Two. What are the names? Kitty Purry. Kitty Purry.

Wait, that didn't hit until it hit. It hit. Okay. And then the other one was Krusty. Krusty. What inspired that? It was a combination of my ex-husband and I's name. Love. Krusty. Rusty. Krusty. Katie. Krusty. Okay. Yeah. R.I.P. Kitty Purry. But she is kind of like a cat dog in that she travels with me everywhere and she's always on my lap.

She looks like she's about to fall asleep. Do you think she will fall asleep during this interview? I don't know. I mean, she's a good girl. I think that my dogs would get along. But her breath is literally like... Disgusting. It's like the inside of an asshole. It is so... I mean, not that I know exactly...

But maybe. But we all know what butt smells like because we all have one. We do. And I have a child, so I really know another way. Right, right, right. I've changed a lot of diapers and this is the inside of her mouth. It's like a mouth only a mother could love, you know? So it's real love. You're like, I really love nuggets. Yeah, she needs it.

another little dental operation. She'll get there. I don't want to put her under too many times. She's so small. We're happy that you brought her because it's giving me, I love dogs. I have two dogs myself. They're golden doodles. I feel like they'd get along with Nugget. So thank you for bringing Nugget today. I want to go through some of your iconic moments because specifically with music videos, you are the queen of going on

all out for these things I'm curious I feel like this is like the hardest question to ask but if you had to pick one of your favorite music videos that you've ever made tell me or you can do top three um okay I like I mean I loved walking onto the set for California Girls it was just like it felt like I was at my own bespoke Disneyland because I had an artist um and the director who was

great as well, but the artists who

kind of looked over the whole thing that made my teenage dream cover Will Cotton. He made these props and sets come to life in a way that like, I don't even know, does it even exist like that? That was a different time, of course. So I loved that one. I loved E.T., of course. I do a lot of flying and attempting acrobatics sometimes. Like I have another video coming out where I'm doing a lot of wire work. Oh.

Very soon. Yes. That's really fun. But yeah, I mean, I like world building. I am a big fan of Disney and a huge fan of Walt Disney and the worlds that he created and just...

I love this a little escapism. And I think I love it because early on, I was trying to create a different reality than what I was born into. And I just my imagination would just build these worlds. Yeah, you know, like Minecraft, I was just building my own worlds all the time. And I think that it's fun to have that release. And when people come to a concert,

especially my concerts it's like a whole it's sensory overload no I was gonna say I think that's like very relatable for anyone that's in the creative business I feel like a lot of us started because we were like imagining things that didn't have to do with like the immediate of what was going on in our lives yes and so you can really run with it and I think it's been really fun to watch throughout your career like you've maintained a pretty consistent like

theme even though everything changes and looks slightly different obviously you're always pushing the creative visual so you're the type of person because we're going to get to I'm not ignoring everything that you're saying about like your upbringing because I want to get there but you know you're like actually no I'm feeling really good I love I

I've made so much peace, so much forgiveness, so much wholeness. I'm super happy. But are you, so you're the person that's like, I want to try to like get on the wire and like do the wire work and like do the flips and all these things. Or is someone being like, are you down today, Katie? Oh no, I'm in. I mean, like I'm, I'm, I'm doing all the stunts and sometimes they're like, you're not allowed to do that. I'm like, I'm like, I'm fine. You're fine. Let me do it. I don't like to overthink. I'm just like,

Yes, and we can do this. I have a great team I've had from day one. Wow. They are such a wonderful sounding board. And it's been imperative to the success of my career because they are not afraid to say no or you need to take a beat. Yeah. And also, fuck this noise. Let's go. I was going to say, I feel like that's huge for people in your position to have the right people around you. That's where the five Scorpios come in. Right. There you go. No, I'm doing this. I'm like constantly. Yeah.

are you here for all the right reasons? You know, I'm interested to get into like romantic later to hear that, how that plays into like decision making moments. I'm going to test you. I'm going to test you. I'm going to test you.

Do you really love me? Do you really love me? Oh, really? Well, how about this? Did you always from like day one of being a young girl, like want to be a famous singer? Like, was that the goal? I mean, fame never came into my mind. I think it's a byproduct of everything that everyone's successful at. I just wanted to be seen. Yeah.

Period. End of story. And I found my magic trick when I was nine. And I started, you know, that was my thing is like I started singing and then the room would freeze. And so I was like, oh, this is interesting. And then I enjoyed it and I just kind of soothed me. It healed me. My mother called me bird from a very young age because I would sing myself to sleep when I was little. Then I picked up a guitar at 13. I started singing at church at nine.

I started writing my own songs at 13. I made a gospel record when I was 16. And so I always wanted to be on the stage. My father is, was a minister and he was on some sort of stage. So I always kind of watched that. I had a little bit of an example of that. Got my big, big, big break at 23. But before 23, I was in LA at 17. I was broke. I didn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out. So what my Southern father would say.

But I was hustling and I was always saying, yes, I can. I'll be there. I'll fill in. Tap me in, coach. Right. It was struggle bus. I had two cars repossessed. I was signed and dropped by three different labels. Like people only kind of know me maybe because of Teenage Dream and the whirlwind and success of that and the accolades, blah, blah, blah. But like I remember very specifically being 19 years

in my black Jetta that I got, you know, with my, my small allowance that I got when I had first done a first signing, trying to meet friends at the Chateau Marmont. Classic. Yeah. But parking in some illegal spot somewhere in the neighborhood because I couldn't pay the $20 going there. And there's a big, big fabulous party and it's 14 people at a long table. And I sit down, I have a glass of water, a,

side salad, that's it. And then at the very end, everybody's like, let's just split the bell. And I'm like, my debit card is like shaking. I am that meme. You know? And so I go into the, I literally go into the bathroom and I just like start crying. I just like, I don't know. And someone ends up taking care of me. But that was every day from 17 to 23, couch surfing, you know, just being like, okay,

It works, yes. Go, onward. It doesn't work, no, onward, you know? But that feels like, from what I've read about you, is that feels like a theme in your life because prior to being 17, if you go back to your childhood, you've talked about having been on food stamps as a kid. Yeah, my family had that time. I mean, we were only, by the grace of what the church could offer us, which was...

fluctuated all the time. That was our livelihood. And it wasn't very much. Can you describe your personality as a kid? I was black sheep. I came out of the womb going, tell me why. Why do you think that is? I'm curious. I'm super curious. And that has been my education my whole life is my curiosity. And that curiosity has just continued to unravel the layers of life and who

you know, I know myself so much more because of my curiosity. Um, and so I just was like, nothing was so, um, black and white for me. It was infinite. You know, it just, I was like, there's so much more out there. How would you describe your household growing up? My household was a little volatile. There was a lot of stressors, money being the biggest one, the biggest one, I think. Um,

And having three kids. I mean, look, I have a child. And you want to go? Okay. Go ahead. I love you. Go ahead, sweetie. Good job, nugget. Just don't take... Oh, you want to go up there? Hi, sweetie. Okay. You can come up. Come on.

I'm not going to lie. I'm feeling a little confident right now. To anyone that's listening and not watching. You're like the dog whisperer. You're the animal whisperer. Katie's dog has departed off of her chair and I now have nugget. Oh, she's leaving. Goodbye. I love you. Okay. That was an honor. Bye-bye. So you were saying it was a little volatile. It was a little volatile. Okay. So like I have a child. Yep. And after having my child, I...

Always respected my mother. But the level of respect for my mother, my parents in general, it just went through the roof. Yeah. Because I was like, how did you keep us alive without iPads? You told us to look out the window.

What were you thinking? I do think my parents with the tools that they had and their own upbringing really did the best that they could. And my mother, you know, she is a saint. She sacrificed every step of the way. She was the last to sit at the dinner table every single time. Some

of my alpha-ing, which is now a lot more in balance, is maybe a reaction to all of that. Like, oh, we didn't grow up with money? I'm going to make it. Let's go. Because I'm never going to be in this position. I don't want to feel this feeling again. But I'm aware of that now, right? Interesting. I chose someone like Orlando because there is a lot more equal energy there. And he wasn't intimidated by...

the power and yeah he wasn't he wasn't intimidated no I have so many questions when we get to out of like dating a man that is intimidated by a woman's success is such an interesting dynamic to close out kind of that like your parents practice a very strict version of christianity yes right how did that like impact your day-to-day life growing up I went to church on Sunday morning on Sunday night on Wednesdays we I've have I ever been trick-or-treating I think I've

been trick-or-treating once. I wasn't allowed to trick-or-treat. Why? It's a pagan holiday and the devil's holiday or whatever, you know. We had a prayer meeting instead. We didn't even acknowledge it. I wasn't allowed to eat Lucky Charms because luck is derivative from Lucifer. You know, my mom was and still is really good at

finding the positive in everything and I do that. But I think that's the gorgeous part of growing up, right? Is like taking what your parents give you and we get to kind of be like no to this, yes to this, no to this and then you make your own reality. They gave me my compass in a lot of ways. They really gave me a lot of integrity. They taught me how to treat people. Did you ever go through a rebellious phase? I'm still in it, baby. Literally.

The nipple rings. No, I'm not rebelling. I'm just being myself. Yeah. You know, I'm finding, I'm playing. How was sex and relationships described to you growing up? Like, were you, I'm assuming it wasn't too sex positive in the house. No, no, no, no. Like, Katie, get after it, girl. No, no, get after it. No, I wasn't really allowed to even acknowledge the opposite sex. Okay. There wasn't a lot of...

uh talking about it and that's okay I mean they did what they knew how to do right I didn't even know how to use a tampon until I was like in high school

I didn't even know how they existed. I was like, do I have eight holes in sex ed? They teach you now at school. But I didn't have that upbringing. I didn't have the education. I was kind of homeschooled, went to the Christian schools and they didn't really teach that. So I was like, what is this? So I'm like on swim team still wearing a fucking pad. I'm like, the girls are like, girl, that's why you're last. You have a flotation device. Let me show you how to like do this. I was like, oh, well, this works. No, I had.

other way I didn't know but it was the girlies that helped I was gonna say I want to make every woman feel so seen especially because you're making them feel seen of like there are so many women that grow up and are completely detached from the belly button down because they're like I don't know what I'm supposed to do down there you never even took a mirror down there never like I mean even to this day guys are like you got to take the tampon out to pee we're like no no no you cannot be president

No, you just need to go back to biology class. Why I wanted to kind of just like establish all this to anyone who like didn't know. And I knew you came from a religious background, but then one of your first giant hits is I Kissed a Girl. Yeah. Which is a complete departure from what we're talking about. How did this song come to be? Because I can imagine like...

What did your family think? Tell me everything. My sister told them that it was coming out. I was like, you got to deliver the message. I moved to LA when I was 17 and it was just a whole different perspective. Boom. I met different people. I'm like, oh, you're not a bad person. I grew up thinking you were this way. I was taught this way. Oh, you're not. So I saw more humanity. And then even like traveling around the world, once I had my success, I was like,

These cultures believe in this and this is how they work and all this education and all this oneness I feel from really observing people and

and getting to know them. That was my education at 17. And like, that's when really my sexuality started and experimenting and like not having as many rules and restrictions. I had those experiences and then I sang about them and I was like, Oh,

So your sister told your parents? Yes. No. Yeah. You had everything recorded. They had no idea this is coming out. Well, I was 23 at that point. So I was a young adult. Yeah. You know, but it was tough. It was tough for them. When any child takes a departure, when any child doesn't become the doctor, lawyer, you know, it's tough. It is. Like, I'm going to have my tough moments too, I'm sure. Even now, my daughter sings a song, Peacock, dancing around the house every

that I wrote as like a double entendre funny song about dicks and I'm like don't sing that song and then you know actually there's been so many people that have sang that song and so many young people that have sang that song and so I want to come on Call Her Daddy right now to say I'm sorry and I and and thank you and

We'll get through this together. And my karma has now served me. I was going to say, you're staring at karma and your little baby girl and you're like, oh my God, she's doing it. She's doing what I created. I bought her a ballerina peacock outfit from the London Zoo. And someone in the house put that on because she loves to listen to Roaring Firework. And they're like, oh, you should hear this song. And then it's never been the same. And I've never been the same. No.

You're like, you know what? I deserve this. Moving forward. I do deserve this. No, that's adorable. Anyways, so yeah. I mean, sexuality really started for me when I was 17. How would you describe your life changing when things really started to blow up? It was a rocket. It was a real rocket. And it was like, can you hold on? And I wasn't present for some of it. It was really tough to be present for some of it. I was like, ooh, you know, every day was a different city and everything.

And I'm really just grateful as I sit here at 39 that I'm alive, that I have tools, that I'm grateful. It's the first thing out of my mouth every single day is a gratitude prayer. It's like the first thing. It's my very first thought. It's the first thing that I say. I

I'm grateful I have a home life, which is a sanctuary, which is an anchor. While I was having all these number ones, my personal life was in shambles, you know? And so like that was totally out of balance. And then it shifted along the way. Now it's been doing this, but that's okay because actually my core is intact now.

My foundation is intact. My joy is no longer at the mercy of anyone or outside of myself. My joy is within me. But it's been a long journey and there is no there there. I invest a lot of time and resources into that.

retreats, evolution, even, you know, medicine journeys, all that stuff. I just want to, I want to evolve. I want to not come back to this prison planet. Your second album, you had five number one singles. And at that point, no one had done that other than Michael Jackson. So like, oh my God, you are now like the biggest star in the world. What type of pressure? I had no idea, by the way. What? What?

I had no idea. And I also like asked my managers, I'm like, is this normal? Does this happen to other people? Because I was like, is this like, especially as they kept on going, I was like, is this like, what is this? What's happening? What is happening is because I was on tour too. I was like, I remember asking that question. I'm like, is this normal for an artist? And they just started laughing at me because obviously they're

you know, managers that have managed so many people. They're like, right, this is not normal. And I was just like, well, okay. I never even really celebrated being like, I didn't even know how to like take it in. Didn't, I never knew how to take in compliments, none of it. And I was just like,

You don't really like me because I had this imposter syndrome. We see it every few months. Someone rises and it's like, oh my God, they're the most famous. They're the biggest ever. And what I feel like I've literally had so many people sit in that chair and tell me like,

I was barely able to comprehend what was happening. I was just trying to keep my head above water because then everyone starts looking at you. It's a very like unnatural thing. And the talent that you have is now, there are so many more things that come with the talent of like the eyes and the pictures and the tabloids and the gossip. Did you ever put like so much pressure on yourself when you were having that level of success? Like another one, another one, or were you more like lenient on yourself? No, I knew the feeling of,

What a good pop song made me feel like I still know that feeling and whether people resonate with that or not I still have it when the goosebumps hit when the tits get hard. I'm like these are visceral physical reactions to This freak this magic frequency feeling right and

And so, no, I was never chasing anything. I'm just all about creating. I'm a creator. It's worked at times. It hasn't worked at times. It's been an amazing journey. And it's really a journey for me to evolve. You know, that everybody else is kind of on this, like watching, but it's really just about, this is my life. And this is my game. And this is how I'm living it. And-

And some people are learning it and some people like take these songs that I write mostly out of like if I when I wrote Firework and Roar, I wasn't feeling that way. I was actually feeling the complete opposite. And it's like, what is going to pull me out of this depressive state? What is going to pull me out of this sadness? I'm going to write a song that's hopefully going to encourage people.

And then it encourages so many. Yeah. Like a generation. And it becomes this ripple effect. I mean, the fame has always just been a byproduct. And I see a lot of people going through it now. And I reach out to a lot of those young ladies. And I'm like, yo, there's not a lot of people that have been through this. So if you ever want to like.

have a very discreet you know tea indoors let's do it let's talk let's vent like I kind of know what they're going through it's a different landscape now so I don't want to assume that like I know everything but I think the feelings are probably very similar like yeah the loneliness the

So many people staring at you. You being expected to hold yourself to a certain standard that no one is even teaching you. You just kind of have to figure it out. Yeah, there's no rule book. There's no playbook, really. Because no one you're talking to is going to give you the advice that has been through it. I didn't really have like examples growing up and nor did I have an education. So I've just been like,

All right. Let's, let's, let's learn. Let's fail. Let's, and I fail in public. I make mistakes in public and I'm like, okay, well I made a mistake. Let's keep, let's go. Let's go. I mean, that's, that's the tough thing is, is sometimes, you know, this,

thing doesn't allow you to learn. And the process of learning anything is by trying and not acing it. Yeah. But it's interesting, Katie, when you're talking about that, because you're a human being and you're this like mega pop star. And so you've referenced it a couple of times. And I want to go there like your 20s while you're on this insane rise to fame. You're also trying to figure out your personal life. Can you just lightly talk to me about like

you in your romantic life in your 20s like what was that what was going on in your life then okay daddy gang i love my bed i am always in my bed i work from bed sometimes sometimes i'm in bed with my husband sometimes i'm in bed with my dogs i love to watch movies i love to watch shows the point is i'm always in my bed and i know you guys are too so why are we not making sure it is the most

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You in your romantic life in your 20s, like what was that? What was going on in your life then? Well, I've always been like monogamous and I've always looked for partnership and for someone to witness me. I even called a record witness because of that feeling. So I wasn't doing very many things.

one night stand type things. And I didn't do a lot of dating. And I met people in my industry, you know. But I was always looking for long term monogamy. That's what I related to. And long distance really worked for me. What do you think you were like as a partner? Like in a relationship in your 20s? Oh, when though? What time of life? Because... In your early 20s. In my early 20s? What were you like as a partner? I was really...

I was wild, but I was on a crazy wild ride that probably made me very moody. I mean, I was also zipping all over the world for a day here, a day there, and my circadian rhythm was completely upside down. So there was a lot of other factors to bring into the equation of me being, you know,

whatever hot fiery personality as well did you have a type do you have a type I really value presence I value loyalty I value adventure so Orlando and I are super adventurous we just like literally jumped out of a helicopter together into the water and

I mean, he's way, way more adventurous. I mean, he has no fear threshold. I'm like, I'm good. My karma is good. I don't need to press my luck.

I value humor I value lightheartedness I value problem solving I value um playfulness like to be playful is so important is so important imagination and playfulness that is to me intelligence that is to me like the currency that I I look for I value strength but not just like

Like, there's a lot of people that can be powerful and, like, strong in the world but crumble personally behind, you know, in their private lives. And, like, they could be man children. You know, they could be stunted at 12. They could be man children, Katie. Yes. I've dated a man, many men. And some of those guys have, like, a lot of outward success. They're financially, like, you know,

but like they're, they're like, that's the thing. It's about balance. And that's the thing for me is like, I didn't have that balance either. I was like, ah, number ones, number ones. And then also, you know, going through a divorce and, and,

Like not knowing which way was up, really. When you look back at previous relationships, like what are some red flags that you now know as the Katy Perry sitting here are like, oh, I maybe avoided those or I maybe ignored those. But now I look, I'm like, I've never put up with that now. Anyone that is constantly changing the goalpost or pulling the rug out from you emotionally is

Not it. They just don't have their stuff. They don't have it figured out. So how can they be a team player with you? Anyone that says that they know you better than you know yourself? So rough. You're like...

whoa okay I've lived in this body from day one like we've been dating for a couple years right you know what I'm saying or whatever anyone that won't show up for you like I was in a relationship at one point where they never came to anything that I did I was on a big tour they never came to one show like not one and it was like really like this they just won't show up

I don't know what reason that was. They just couldn't handle me in boss mode of sorts, quite possibly. And yeah, those are some red flags. And then also like someone that won't just help, help around the house, like share the load or help the load be lighter. The load can be so heavy for women. And there's so many invisible things that we do. And,

And it's literally about sharing that load. Just like Orlando and I, we...

do a lot of couples therapy and we want to evolve. That's like, I think why we're in our relationship is to become better, better humans so that we can raise this beautiful human being. One of my love languages is acts of service. So it's like, if I come downstairs and the kitchen is clean and you've done it all and you've done all the dishes and you've closed all the pantry doors, you better, you better be your dick socks. I mean, like literally that's,

my love language i don't need a red ferrari i can buy a red ferrari just do the i'm sorry don't you know it's facts it's even when we went on like a couple's retreat they're like which guy has more sex the guy that drives the ferrari the red ferrari or the guy that helps out with his wife every night in the kitchen in the kitchen was the answer in in the kitchen and

Orlando knows all that. Yeah. And he hears me and he's, he meets me there now. He does the dishes. Ladies, I mean, well, we are fortunate to have a housekeeper, but on the weekends, he knows that like that's important. It means, and I, okay, there's so many things to say. Also, if you can afford to get an electric toilet, get a fucking electric toilet. Get a Roomba thing that just cools around the house. Yeah, get a Roomba.

Roomba! Choose your battles. Men listening, get a Roomba. You're going to have so much more sex. So much more sex. The Roomba stock price goes up. The toilet seat goes down by itself. So much more sex. It only turns on you when you have a hangover and you're throwing up and the toilet seat just goes down. It keeps going down. Katie. You're like, I'm so successful. I'm not done. I'm not done throwing up. Gunk. Gunk.

Okay. Rewinding for a second, because I think it's so important what you just said for women listening is the feeling of, I have had someone say that to me before. I know you better than you know yourself. That is a full manipulation tactic to make you question every fucking thing you're doing. So if anyone is hearing that in their life right now, that is a red flag. We're here to tell you like,

That's a red flag. And typically they'll follow up with like, if you leave me, you're going to have a really hard time or your life is going to change or it's going to be shit. And you question yourself. You're like, what? I mean, do they? You know, like I was fine before I met you. Yeah. Kind of. Kind of. Kind of. There have been some relationships that have really helped me. Orlando, for one, I was going through a really tough time in 2018 and he was not shook.

And I showed him the worst of me. I was like, here's the next test. I'm going to show you the craziest bitch you've ever seen. And he's like, I ain't shook. And I'm like, he's like, I love you. You're my baby daddy. I was like, if you're not shook by this and we're going the distance. No, we're going to get to Orlando because it's like from, I feel like I'm talking to a lot of my friends recently who are in these positions where it's like,

is this person the one or is it time to move on? And that is so scary because like you build lives with someone, right? I think relationships are just about growing. And if you're not growing, both of you, if you've stopped growing with a person or you've graduated, you're,

It's time to go. You know, it's time to go. If that person doesn't want to grow, it's time to go. I don't know about ones. I think it's just about are you on a journey? Do you want to evolve together? Like in previous relationships, some people didn't want to do any of the work together. And it's like we're really just here to sharpen each other. Yes, we are each other's mirrors and we see like both the best and the worst because in your partnerships, they see the absolute worst version of you. So it's then their responsibility to help you

show you that in a loving way that like you don't need to operate out of that you know so true and like yes it's so hard to get out of things that aren't right for you anymore but we all watch especially if you're like if you're like partners on youtube or if you're like if you've got a platform together you've got all this invested business together and you know like you have an apartment together you have a partner together you have whatever

you have together. And then you're like, how do I get rid of this? And it's like... Or if you have a child together. That's the next step, you know? It's like, that's even... There's a lot of people that have had children, they're like, well, I'm going to stay in this for 15 years, you know? I know it's complicated, but it is you talking about your experience is so helpful because it's like life goes on and it actually is better to be happy than to stay in something that you're not happy in, but trying to make it all work. Well, happiness is relative because...

It's really about... It's not about happiness. It's about evolution. Because life is hard. Life is not peachy keen jelly bean. People get sick. You know, people have accidents. Life sucks sometimes. It's about what you make of those moments. It's like, how do you find the opportunities of growth? How do you find the positive? It's not just happiness. It's not just dopamine. It's...

it's, it's equanimity. It's finding the light in the darkness. You're so right. It's like finding that person that you want to go through those really hard times with. Like that's when you know a relationship is like going to stand the test of time for however long you want it to last. If they're not shook, if they don't leave, you know, I,

I want to ask you another question that you mentioned about, you know, being a boss and being so successful and how intimidating that can be to partners. And I'm sure like you kind of just mentioned, you've been in relationships where, and I've been in it where I've dated guys that I'm like, oh my God, you're so intimidated by my success. And they don't even know how to verbalize it. And for a minute, if you're not in the best place, like I've been there where I for a moment was like, oh, should I dim myself more? Should I maybe not? I've been there.

I have dimmed. Right? I have dimmed. You dim because you're like, you can't see it immediately. You also want to play the game, play a role. Not be too much. So you're like, okay, like maybe I should take off this day so he feel. And now I'm taking up space, bitch. I'm taking up space. And it's like, you can't win with those people. And I feel like it's hard with the. There's one girl listening and she's like, they're talking.

talking to me I have to go they're talking to me I have to get out of this but that's what's so crazy about this show is like I legit Katie have people after this will DM me being like you guys were talking to me like if you are with a partner that is so intimidated by your success and you keep making yourself smaller you're not with the right partner have you ever heard of someone say your partner should be saying I'm so proud of you babe

can I do anything to help you? I'm so proud of you. Even if it sounds like, even if they're saying it, like they're clocking in sometimes, they're like, because you know this is my love language, you know, vocalizing. It's like, thanks for saying it. I appreciate it. And not making it feel like, oh my God, I have to quickly finish because like he's going to be mad. Or I have to hide my success or I can't celebrate. I've been in relationships where I've had number ones where like I've been, you know, or, or, or,

won things or gotten to like big parts of my life or made my first like million dollars or whatever where I like do I tell them do I not tell them like do like do I just slightly like you know what I'm saying like crazy yeah it's and what's crazy is like you're sitting here everyone in the world is like you're so successful you financially career wise you know with your life they must so many people I bet are like

You had to dim your success for man. It literally comes up. Everyone, everyone. It's a human experience. Nobody. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I also remember I wasn't born into any of this. Like this is like all a product of my, of my talent and my hard work and my hustle, you know? So like,

Not that people that were born into something don't have that because they do because they actually have a bigger crust to bear and they have to fight in a different way. I think everybody has to play this human game whether they like it or not. Insecurity and like going through the waves of a career. You referenced earlier Witness and in 2017 you released Witness, the album, and it didn't chart as high as your other ones. And I think this is also going to be helpful to other women listening of like,

In moments where you are competing with yourself and comparing yourself to what you've done in the past versus, oh my gosh, this didn't do as well. How did that affect you and your self-worth and your career? And where was your head out during that time? Oh, it was just universe's way of saying, oh, you preach a really strong message of self-love. Let's see, baby. So I was like, oh, okay, here's the real lesson. Let's see. And it's interesting. I heard like,

When ships, you know, big, these big ships out in the ocean, they go off one degree off chart. They land on a different continent. And yes, like at that time, things were changing by like small degrees. And I felt like I was on a different continent because I had only experienced, you know, my before success. It was like, am I enough? I'm going to show you. Proof, proof, proof. I was right. Right.

I was fucking right. Let's go. And then it shifts and it changes and it settles for everyone. There's maybe a couple. It doesn't, but like it settles and hold on tight because life is all about peaks and valleys. The valleys are where you sow the seeds. The peaks are where you enjoy the views and the fruits, but you wouldn't even know the light cannot exist without the darkness. I had a really big shift in,

I had cut my hair because I didn't want to do this cutesy pinup girl thing that I had done previously. I wanted to really experiment with different sounds. I just wanted to go into a different zone as an artist, which I am first and foremost.

And so I was like, well, how do I do that? Well, I'm going to change the look. I'm going to cut everything. I'm going to go. People that were used to being fed a certain thing, they got fed a different thing. And they're like, oh, that's different. I like it, kind of. I mean, like when I go to a restaurant,

and I like my favorite dish. Like don't change any ingredients. Keep it right on the menu. I want this thing every time. But you're also a human being. And then you have talked to me about how you are a creative. So it's like, wait, I do want to lightly try something different. And then people are like, uh-uh. You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But how do you deal with that? Well, it's my life and that I'm going to live it now. I've come to, I'm almost 40 and this is my life. I've realized I'm going to live it.

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I appreciate you like talking also about you talking about how like you came from your childhood fighting. You got to where you are. You went through what is so normal and natural in your 20s, figuring out your romantic relationships, figuring out your partners. Half of the reason we choose certain partners is because of what we're dealing with on the inside with our own selves. We're trying to resolve. Yes. That's why we're attracted to that. Yes.

And then you find... No longer attracted to narcissists. No, sorry. You're like, I'm actually not into the narcissist, Alice, anymore. Not really. Not really. You find Orlando. What initially drew you to him? His adventure spirit. He's got a free spirit. He's super healthy. And he wants me to be healthy. Sometimes that can be annoying. But it's all for the good. He shows up. He is loyal. He's a Capricorn. He's not scared. I don't know if this Capricorn trait...

is for everyone. But what I've noticed and what he resonates with is that like he can get his hands dirty. You know, he's he he loves the elements. He's spontaneous and he checks a lot of boxes and not everyone's going to not one person's going to check all the boxes. You know what I'm saying? Was it an initial spark or was it a slow burn? It

It's been different layers. The more we do the work, the more we find the next level. And sometimes we get stuck and we're like, okay, well, let's go into do the work and this is going to be annoying and I don't want to do it and we don't have the time and I'm tired. But we're going to do it. But we're going to do it. And then we find the next level and that's why we're continuing in the relationship. I know you guys broke up for almost a year at one point. What led to that decision?

It was really interesting. I mean, we met over an In-N-Out burger, mostly, at the Golden Globes. He stole one off of my table, and I was like, excuse me. And then his hand went and grabbed one. I was like, okay, you can have one. You can have one. Orlando Bloom, hello. Hey. And we had met before then, but it really locked then. I actually had done a little spell before I went that night. I had wore...

I had wore pink, rose quartz. I had written down the things I was looking for in a partner under a full moon, burn it up, let it go into the ash, spread it everywhere, cleanse my crystals. And it came. But it wasn't about Orlando. And we manifested it. And then what was the question? How did you guys decide to break up? Oh, so what happened was we weren't like –

like really in it from day one. I mean, he was in a way because he had just done a huge time of celibacy and he had set intentions and I was fresh out of a relationship and I was just like, I can't do this anymore. I need to go into a swim in a different pond.

But I had yet to do a lot of like some real work. He went to this place called the Hoffman Process, which is a place, a retreat you go to for a week and you rewire the way you think about yourself and it helps you rewire all the bad habits and the

rewires your neural pathways through different physical activities. So there's no like medicine or plant medicine. It's literally just like scientists and therapists that have put together programming that help you quiet that imposter syndrome and also find that new kind of awaken yourself and find that mode, you know, that reborn mode. So he went there and then he came back and he wasn't like playing this cat mouse game anymore with me. And I was like,

This is boring. I'm moving on. Because I'm so used, I was so used to this like push-pull. Right. Because I was like, once you have it, then you're like, ugh. Yes. I was playing games. It's addicting, yeah. Yeah, I was playing games because it was a dopamine hit, right? And it's what I knew and things like that. So I had a really tough year and I finally went to Hoffman towards the end of that year that we were separated. Yeah.

And then I got the tools and spoke the same language. And it changed my life. It saved my life. I would be dead without it. I would not be on this planet without that process. Why do you think that? And meditation. Because the noise got so large. When Witness came out and things started to shift, and I thought I really loved myself, and I thought I really had that center, but actually that core was all created from outside.

Validation. Everything started changing. And then I went to this process and like it changed my life. It just helped me rewire how I think about myself. And it helped me connect my head to my heart. That's like even what this album is about. 143. It's coming out September 20th. And that means I love you. And that's my angel number. I don't know if anyone ever knows what that is or you needed an affirmation or a sign or a symbol from somewhere else to know that.

that you're on the right path or whatever. We were going through a really challenging medical situation that was causing me a lot of anxiety. And then I started seeing 143 everywhere and it's like on a receipt.

in a parking spot, random, random, random, like crazy, not even on your phone. Cause I get it. We see 1111 a lot, you know, we do. And I looked it up and it's just, it's the digital. I love you from back in the day, you know? And I, and I just was like, Oh, this is just my angel self saying, I got you. I want the best for you. I love you. Communicate with me. Commune with me. Commune with me. You sitting here saying like,

If I had not gone away to this program, I don't think I would be here. I would not. If you could say something to that woman that was in that spot, what would you say to yourself right now? I wasn't in my right mind. So I don't know if I could. And there's a lot of people that do have some moments where they're either extremely depressed or extremely anxious and they're not really in that balanced right mind. So they're like, I don't even know what to do. Yeah.

um the first thing I did 15 years ago was actually the best thing I did which is learn a tool like meditation having access to meditation everyone has their own thing that works for them to get them through tough times yoga dance get into your body out of your mind did you in Orlando talk while you guys were like kind of not broken up or no ish kind of he was boundaried who initiated getting back to

I was doing a show that was close to where he was on vacation and I was like, I'll pop over. But I had promised that I was going to do the Hoffman process, but I literally was in a bad state and I like needed his, I needed his, he's got, you know,

We all have our strengths and then our opportunities for growth. But one of his strengths are when I crumble, he can step in and be that anchor. That's amazing. Because I'm usually just alpha, alpha. You know, I'm like testosterone, testosterone. I got this. I got this. I don't need any help. But actually, I do need help. I do need a partner. And I went on a guided journey the other day. And for as strong as I am.

I was like, no, I do need. I do need. I do have needs. So...

It was a beautiful revelation. It was the one thing I got. And I did that like last week. Like I can be so strong. But yeah, like everybody needs help being a mom. Yeah. How has it changed your life? Everything. It was the view I was looking for. I mean, I appreciate and enjoy. And I probably, again, would not know that that was the view I was looking for unless I climbed other mountains. Yeah.

You know, I literally got the opportunity to climb Mount Everest and I planted my fucking flag in Everest. Not actually, not literally, but like teenage dream is that massive mountain. And I had it and I did it. And then I tried to climb other mountains and I loved those views. But like then I was like, wow, God, there's got to be something else. And I had my child and.

And it was like, oh, this is all the love I was ever looking for. And there's a song on the album that's called All the Love. And I wrote it out of that. I was like, you know, I was at a place where I was like, oh, I guess I'll be okay with not feeling that intense love or not. I mean, I have an intense love with Orlando. It's a beautiful love. But I feel like a soulmate can come in any form. It could come...

You know, you could be soulmates with your mother. You could be soulmates with your sister. You could be soulmates, you know, with your daughter or your son or your dog. Even that, you know, people like before they have kids and they have a dog, they're like, how am I going to love anything more than I love this dog? Sweetheart, wait for it. It just, it shifts. It changes. I mean, when she came into my life and she is a true king, she is a real king. She

She's very strong-willed, very outspoken, beautiful, and such an empath. She's very heart-centered. I mean, on the playground, at the beach. When we were in London, there was a girl that fell and literally she gave her lollipop to her. And I was like, you love lollipops. You gave her lollipops.

away to her and it just made her so it made the little girl that fell feel so good and so Daisy is such a kind empath and cares and worries about the world and she's got a great intuition as well she's my gift I think for doing all that work too we intentionally brought her into this world

We knew we wanted to have a child. We knew we were going to, okay, let's do it. Let's do it as a celebration of all the work that we've done together and create this being. And so she's the gift. She is exactly what I get for doing that. And I'm continuing to do the work. And so there is no there there. But if you get the opportunity, it seems like it's like the biggest cliche in the world is to procreate.

But it's the reason why people still do it and they've done it. It's everything. So I feel like I'm operating from such a more whole place. You know, the biggest lie that artists are ever told is that we have to stay broken to create. So true. Because if we go to therapy, it's going to change me. It's going to turn me into a different person. That is a lie from the pits of hell. Yeah.

You'll become a different person. You will evolve a better person, a more centered person. And so from, for the first part of my life into my, I would say my thirties, I was operating on, you know, just pain gas and,

And then the car lit on fire and I was like, I gotta get out of here or else I'm gonna get devoured. And now it's a totally different, it's like, it's electric now. I'm so happy for you because you can, I like see the way that you're lighting up when you're speaking about her and it's like so inspiring and I'm so happy for you that this,

that woman in 2017 like pushed through and did the work and found herself and like got the help you needed and found the way to get to where you are now because you have created this beautiful life outside of yourself and it's a sanctuary and it's beautiful and I'm so grateful for it because I didn't have it and I know what it

I know what it feels like to be all career, all that. Yeah. And to not have it and to be like coming home at the end of the night, literally like so lonely, so sad. And everybody in the world thinks you're just like, yes, honey, kill, slay, boots the house down. You're like, I'm so sad. I don't know anyone to celebrate. You know, nobody sees, nobody sees me. And then now to have like this foundation, this core, like I take my daughter to school on a bicycle and,

Yeah, I like we go to preschool sometimes on a bicycle and I'm just like, I'm literally that Leonardo DiCaprio meme where I'm sitting outside with my face in the sun just going like a Labrador dog. Just like, yes, I've never felt so free as I do on a bicycle with the beach and my hometown and all happiness.

but fine happiness one four three i always wanted to make a record like this there's a lot of um kind of dance pop rhythmic i would say um because when i go out into the world i want to dance with everyone what is your favorite song on the album if you had to choose that's the worst question i know but if you had to choose for the daddy gang to go listen to one thing when this comes out

What are we listening to? I guess I would say all the love because it also encompasses this conversation and the journey of like me looking for a love, me finding the love, me, you know, having the love inside me all along and tapping into that. With me having a child, there is poetry in every moment. Everything is new again. It's like...

I get to relive life through her eyes. I will also say what I really like about 143 is I feel like you have this like great range. Like when I was listening to Gorgeous and like Love, Competrious and I... KP. Yeah, I just feel like... KP, KP. You have such great range where like that's what I'm listening to and I'm like getting ready to go out with the girls. Like there's just... It's great. I really wanted to make a record that was celebratory, full of love, light, joy, energy.

hope and and BPM because get out of your head get into your body get into your heart dance sweat out those toxins feel yourself like embrace your sexuality like find your feminine divine all of that I do want to ask you about one collaborator in particular I know a lot of people have expressed their

disappointment and were really upset that you decided to involve Dr. Luke on this album. Why did you choose to work with him? Look, I understand that it started a lot of conversations and he was one of many collaborators that I collaborated with. But the reality is it comes from me. The truth is I wrote these songs from my experience of my whole life going through this metamorphosis.

And he was one of the people to help facilitate all that. One of the writers, one of the producers. And I am speaking from my own experience. Like when I speak from, when I speak about woman's world, I speak about feeling so empowered now as a mother, as a woman,

Giving birth, creating life, creating another set of organs, a brain, a heart. I created a whole ass heart and I did it and I'm still doing it and I'm still a matriarch and feeling really grounded in that. That's where I'm speaking from. Yeah.

And so I created all of this with several different collaborators, people that I've collaborated with from the past, from Teenage Dream era, all of that. In working with the same collaborators throughout your career, how do you think you've evolved as an artist? I feel like I've always been authentic in, you know, trying different genres, investigating different

sounds. I don't think I've ever been inauthentic. I don't think I've like went for a trend or anything. I just do what makes me happy and that I resonate with and that gives me those chill bumps. And even more so now, like, I don't feel like I have to make music. I don't feel like I have to prove anything. I'm doing it now from a

place of celebration and love. I cannot thank you enough for coming on. Thank you. I wish the best for you. I hope the best, not wish. I hope the best for you. Um, I know you're on an incredible journey. You're a young lady that is got a lot of attention and a lot of new success and just remember your compass. Stay true. Keep your friends. I've had the same, I've had some of the same friends for 20 years, you know, and just keep those people around. Um,

the people that tell you no, you keep them closer. You say why? Yeah. And maybe not like, okay, maybe not, but like just keep them closer and just, you know, get those tools. Go investigate meditation. Like there is a reason why it's been around forever because it works. Be connected to divine. Thank you. Thank you. We did it. We did it.

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