Deck the Heartstrings: A Holiday Special with 'Deck the Hallmark' Podcast Hosts, and Authors Celeste Edmunds and Richard Paul Evans
01:02:33 Share

The 2022 political field was intense, so don't get left behind in 2024. If you're running for political office, the first thing on your to-do list needs to be securing your name on the web with a yourname.votewebdomain from godaddy.com. Get yours now. Chuck Warren with today, Kylie Kipper. We are excited to have with us today the host of Deck the Hallmark Guys,

We are with Brandon Gray and Daniel Thompson. Gentlemen, welcome to our radio show, Breaking Battlegrounds.

Thank you for having us. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to you. So let me ask you this question. So Taylor Swift now has a course at Harvard. Is Harvard going to talk to you guys about doing a course on Deck the Hallmark? At the very least, they should. We should be in talk. I do think at this point we are a little above Harvard. But if they asked, we would consider it. We would talk about it. They can't be not in the middle.

Our riders are ridiculous. It's crazy. That's very important. Dear listeners, so what Brandon and Daniel do is they have a podcast that basically reviews all the Hallmark movies. Brandon Gray loves them. Daniel Thompson, he's a little grumpy about them. Did you both see this becoming the success that it has become when you started it?

No, no. You know, we recorded one episode in the summer of 2018. I listened back and I had tried other podcasts in the past, like reviewing bands I like, talking to people that believe in aliens, like anything that I'm interested in. And of the things that I had done, I was like, this is funny. And I do like listening to it. And I do think other people will listen to it. But I always assume that

that if anybody listens to it, I'm going to be happy with it. So I knew that a few people would find it. I didn't think that

more than a few would. And I'm thrilled that they have, especially six holiday seasons later, the fact that we still get to do this and turn it into a full-time job. It really is the dream. So over the moon, excited that they are listening. I'm on the record as saying I thought a hundred people would never listen. So I like under 100. But you know what? We hit something at the right time and right. We were very fortunate. I mean, at

At the time, there was like two or three other podcasts doing Hallmark movies, and then none of them had dudes doing it. Like, there were no dudes talking about Hallmark Christmas movies, and then none of them were like super duper critical. So, like, I will be like, this movie's trash. It's terrible. But I think that, you know, we're trying to do it joyfully without any cynicism, but I think –

the combination of dudes reviewing Hallmark movies with an actual critical take of some sort was something that that space had just not seen. And we just happened to...

get there first and love each other enough to where we sound kind of like we do in a podcast. And it's like 50% film criticism, 50% really bad improv. Yeah. So that combination, I think, it works for us. And thankfully, a few people listen. So Dan, how did you... Go ahead. Go ahead, Kylie. No, go ahead. Dan, how did you... What did Brandon say to you to convince you to watch your first Hallmark movie? And do you remember your first Hallmark movie? I do. Like it was just... It was for this podcast. I'd never seen... I minored in the movie. I'm not...

minored in film in college and then I went on to teach history and then I was actually a high school principal and Brian taught at the school where I worked for a couple years. I quote unquote taught. There's a reason I'm not a teacher anymore. It didn't last me

He left that and he and I would try to stay in contact as much as we could, but he's loved Christmas since the moment I met the guy. Literally his wedding vows, weird wedding vows, like I promise we'll always love celebrating the holiday together.

We got married in December right before Christmas. So it wasn't like so that weird. Till death and wreath do they part. And so he was like, hey, I'm going to do this podcast. I think it's fun. You'll hate these movies. And I think it'll be a lot of fun if we did this together. And so he sent me, we're going to do this one first. It's called Rocky Mountain Christmas. And I was going to, I watched it. I laid in bed and I'm like, let me get this. And I turned it on and I had to turn it off.

Literally 20 minutes in, I had to stop. I had to take breaks. It took me three sittings to finish watching that movie. Yeah.

And weirdly enough, that movie, Rocky Mountain Christmas, is one of the better ones. Like, looking back over the, we've done... You didn't know how good you had it. 700, we've watched over 700 movies for this podcast. And I would definitely say that one's one of the better 150-ish. It was going to get worse before it got better. But it's tough. Like, when you start, you're just like, is this real life? Like, do these people, like...

there's no set of any kind. And then there's like six Christmas trees. And then it's like, why are we, who, what, who has a Christmas Eve tree?

evening business meeting? Whose big promotion is on Christmas Day? And so what she's saying all this as if it's a bug, that's a feature. And they all have a festival. They all have a Christmas festival. Someone's leading a Christmas festival. The party planning is out of control. Like, just stop. Everybody stop. And it doesn't... Whatever amount of time they give in the movie is always a red alert amount of time. So sometimes it's like...

we have 48 hours to play in this Christmas party. And sometimes it's, we have two weeks to play. It doesn't matter. The time does. It's like the points and whose line is it anyway. It just doesn't matter. Like however much time they give you, that's not enough time. Right. It just is absurd. And so once you get there,

in the swing of it and like used to what you're going to watch, I've grown to like love to hate them. Like, so I know the actors that are in them now that come on our show and they're super great and kind and they're making these movies in 15 days. And so I've grown a lot in that regard where I don't just kind of say all these movies are trash, but I still, you know, by and large are, I'm not crazy about them.

So let me ask you this question. So you've had a lot of the actors on, a lot of the writers, okay? You've watched 700 of these movies. You're very, for Grumpy Dan, you're very blunt that a lot of them aren't good. Does this confuse the Hallmark audience that you have this pro and con effect of these movies? Because, you know, does it confuse them? Because they love them, obviously. I will say this. I think we were shocked to find

that a lot of the Hallmark watching audience watches the movies like we watch them. Like they watch them, they know that they're silly,

They don't take it seriously. We thought that was a small percentage of the population. It's a very large percentage of the population. And so I think that was a big surprise. Yeah. And I think the people that maybe aren't on board with, like, you know, there are people that are like, I don't understand why you don't like it. It's just so happy. I don't get down either for that regard.

But there are a lot of other great Hallmark podcasts out there that are truly there to have fun and just celebrate the movies. And then we're over here that are trying to take a more like film criticism approach to these movies. And I think both of those are perfectly valid and needed in this space. And so just like a Hallmark, there's hopefully something in there for everybody to gather around Hallmark.

And we kind of are happy to be the voice that kind of I love a lot of them, but there's also a lot that I can poke fun at. And that's part of the thing I love about the movies is. Oh, there there was one this year where this couple went to France with the reporter and they had that annoying girl that was French. I remember listening to your podcast about it. She was just she was horrible. I don't know why they even put her in. I mean, you knew immediately when she came in. She's just horrible. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that happens. The accents can be tough sometimes. The accents are difficult. So let me ask you this. Why do you think this has become so popular? I mean, it's so popular that Lifetime's in the gig now. I mean, other cable networks are on it. Why do you think this has become so popular? I think...

I think there's two questions there. You know, I think the reason that people watch these movies are threefold. I've said this in a lot of interviews, but they watch them for three reasons to remember to forget or to dream. They don't watch them because they think they're watching cinematic masterpieces. They're watching them for dreams.

bad day that they had, forget what's going on in their life and they know something's going to end happily. They watch it to remember when times were really good or some festive tradition they did as a kid, or they watch them to dream about a time when it'll be better. I think that's why people watch them. But the reason they're becoming popular is I think, A, they're really cheap to make.

you know, Hallmark makes these for $2 million. There are a lot of companies that make them for less than $2 million. B, I think COVID really like spawned this like

a boom here because you're making these movies in 15 days, right? Get back to their families. The protocols were all followed in these movies. You don't have these three, four month long shoots and more people are staying home. More people got used to staying home as part of their routine during COVID. And so it was already trending upward, but I think,

while initially it made them, there are fewer in 2020 and 21 and 22, you saw a boom in these movies because it put people back to work easy to make cheap to make easy to produce. And like you said, the,

the number of networks that want to cover them has exploded. I mean, Roku, uh, INS, right up TV, lifetime Netflix, Hulu. Like there are dozens of networks that now want to get in the Christmas movie game because it's cheap. And if it's cheap, then you know that they know they can make money on. Brandon, do you think in your bio, it says you love Hallmark movies. Is that one of the reasons that you love them? Because I know myself, I, I love them as well, but I'm no movie critic. I think I've watched every movie. It's,

and I like them. - Yeah, no, you're so kind. Lord, no, I'm not a movie critic. Yeah, it really started with more of a love of Christmas. Like I'm just obsessed with Christmas, have been since I was a kid. Like most kids, most people I think get a little bit older and they're like, "Hey, it's Christmas time, I like that." I actively look forward to Christmas all year. The reason the podcast started was literally spring was here and I was sad it wasn't Christmas and I just wanted to talk about it.

So it spawned out of that love of Christmas. And when I found, I think like 2014 was when I discovered that these movies existed.

Uh, the fact that there was a network that in, you know, late October switched to 24 seven Christmas, honestly, it could have just been Christmas scenery on a loop and I would have been, you know, it happened to be something that worked for me. Like I thought that the movies were endearing, um, if not cheesy, like I thought it was, they were nice and nice to look at. Um,

I had never seen a non-Christmas one before starting this podcast. So that was an adjustment. The Christmas ones are a lot easier for me to just be like, I don't really care about how silly that thing is that happened. It was Christmas and it worked for me. A little bit different during the year, but I find the movies to be darn charming. So it works

Works for me. Well, we have two minutes before we go to break. But for each of you, what is your favorite Christmas or Hallmark movie? Hallmark Christmas movie is probably Ghost of Christmas Always. It's a movie that takes a spin on the Dickens Christmas Carol. And it's got Reginald Bill Johnson, who was in Family Matters, Tim Matchella, Ian Hardy.

and a really well-written movie by Zach Hogg, I believe. And I like the movie this year, A Biltmore Christmas. Chris Palaha was in our first movie we ever watched. It was filmed an hour north of us, and it's just a magical movie to watch. That's my favorite. Do you have a favorite one, Chuck? No, I don't. Well, I can't think of the top of my head. It was last year, though. I'll figure it out before the next segment, but I had one last year. I think I'm a fan of all the ones with Candace –

Oh, yeah. The woman from Full House. So and that that gives us a great segue. Gentlemen, how do people follow your podcast before we go to break? Find us at deckthehallmark.com. They can follow us on the social media at Hallmark Podcast. You can watch us on Spilo TV. Fantastic. We're breaking battlegrounds.vote. We're here with the folks from Deck the Hallmark. We'll be right back after this commercial break.

At Overstock, we know home is a pretty important place, and that's why we believe everyone deserves a home that makes them happy. Whether you're furnishing a new house or apartment or simply looking to update and refresh a few rooms, Overstock has everyday free shipping and amazing deals on the beautiful, high-quality furniture and decor you need to transform any home into the home of your dreams. Overstock, making dream homes come true.

Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds. This is your host, Chuck Warren, and I'm Kylie Kipper filling in for Sam Stone today. We are here with the host of Deck the Hall's Hallmark podcast. And before break, I had mentioned that my favorite actress or the favorite movies were Candace Cameron. And that led to a question that Chuck had.

So Candace Cameron famously left Hallmark last year. Is that correct? Yeah, she sure did. Do you think that has been a problem for Hallmark? Why do you think that was a good move for her? What are your thoughts on this? That's a really good question. It's a great question. Hallmark's TV ratings have improved this year.

over last year. Wow. Almost all linear cable television ratings are going down. I mean, virtually all TV ratings are going down because you can watch things on DVR. You can stream them on demand. Hallmark's ratings have actually time period versus the same time period last year have gone up. They've improved. Uh,

And the reason they've improved, I think, is because they've expanded kind of the net of inclusion of what people look like on the network. You know, for years, Hallmark was pretty much just straight white people. And they've they've

Expanded what people who can see themselves on the network. Candace made a move to a network that was more focused on traditional traditional family values, traditional marriage, whatever you want to call that. And I think she's happy with the move. I don't want to speak for her. I think she's we wouldn't.

We couldn't. She's happy with that move. Their network has not seen, I mean, they have not seen near the numbers, but it's an upstart network. Startup cable TV network. So I feel like both sides would probably say that they're happy with the outcome. I think as a fan of the movies...

It's been a really beneficial move as someone who just likes these movies because when we started the podcast, the network, even as someone who's a fan of the movies, it did feel like

The network was sleepwalking a little bit through the season. 40 printed movies of the same thing. 40 movies, the exact same formula. And that's where the memes come from of people that are making fun of how every homework is the same because they were. And I think if anything has come out of this shakeup, it has been a network that has said, let's throw the formula out there.

maybe not all together, but a good bit of it. Let's just try new things. And they're not always going to work. There was a movie this year, Holiday Road, that was very different and wacky for the network. And it wasn't one of our favorites, but it's just good to see them taking swings and trying to switch things up. And so for me as a viewer, and I think a lot of viewers would say this, this year's crop has been one of

The most fun to watch because you go into each movie, all 40 of them, and it's nice to not know exactly what they're going to

I think the hardest thing for these movies would be coming up with the titles. 100%. There's been a movie this past year, past week that came out when we were previewing it or something. And I was like, I honestly, I cannot believe this title has not been taken. It's like one word here and moving it there. What if instead of... We have a Take Me Back to Christmas and it's like there's a Take Me Back for Christmas. And it's very hard to like...

That's the thing I think they're going to run out of is names for these movies. It's crazy. Have you been asked to be background characters or a character in a Hallmark movie yet? We were on set...

at the USS Yorktown in Charleston to be in a movie called USS Christmas as background, as background actors. And we sat on that boat all day long. It's a horrible job being a background actor. It's horrible. Our scene never came up. They were there. Yeah.

You're losing daylight. Come back tomorrow. And we were like, no, it was like, they were back filming from COVID. So we went down to Charleston, got, came back, went back, back to Charleston, sat on a boat. Yeah.

All day long, didn't get used to it. They did pay us because we were back there. They paid us. It was $108 to be there sun up to sun down. We left a day in Charleston on a three-hour drive back, tired from sitting on a boat with a $108 check in our hands.

You can't even buy podcast equipment for that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They were like – they looked so funny. Like we couldn't come back. I'm like, man, like this is a full – like podcasting is a full-time job for us. Like we don't just sit around and do nothing. Like this is – it's crazy. What have you learned about Hallmark through this process? I mean they make a movie for $2 million. What do they probably do? Make triple, quadruple their investment on it? I mean what have you learned about Hallmark through the process? Well, I think –

Hallmark is a place where as long as you're a good-natured person, they'll invite you back to do more work. I think I've learned that. Most everyone we talk to on the network are good-natured, good-hearted folks who have their hearts in the right place. I also know that their business model is a little bit weird. You talked about turning it for three or four times. Well, they typically acquire movies, and then the movies they make in-house, every movie's under a different LLC. So it's like...

USS Christmas movie was actually made by USS Christmas LLC. And they do that so they can have rights for like 30 days and then they actually sell the rights. So there's tax incentives with the LLC. Wow. Wow. Okay. The way that they run their business is not like a movie making empire as much as it is like,

The other thing I'll tell you about talking with Hallmark, and we're not affiliated with them, obviously, but we've had our chance to talk with the brass over there and they're super kind, is they didn't really, like, Hallmark movies took them by surprise. So Hallmark, Crown Media is now the bigger subsidy than, like, Hallmark makes money off of movies than gift cards, than greeting cards now.

So they are constantly trying to figure out what to do with this growing empire that used to be just a subsidy of theirs. And that is something that they would even tell you they're still trying to wrestle with and figure out what to do with themselves. And so in that instance, even though they are a billion dollar company, they're kind of like a small, small town company trying to figure it out. And they do they do present like that. They really do.

Is there anything that you guys have learned about yourselves after starting this podcast? You know, maybe you're a grumpy Dan, you're a little less sensitive or a little more sensitive now or...

Yeah, I think I have come around on understanding the context of what these movies, like, I used to just be like, this is pathetic. You know what I mean? I used to be like, this is pathetic. Let's move along. And now I do, like, the folks in these movies are professionals. And sometimes they will hit everything perfect. The script will match the acting, will match the locale and the director perfectly.

And they have the ability to elevate the material. And so I like to think I've grown in that regard and I don't just sit down and go, all right, here's another dumpster fire we're going to watch. I feel like I've grown in that regard. Yeah. I mean, I think we, we've learned a lot about just this business of podcasting, you know, being able to do this full time. We have,

We've made a lot of mistakes. We've created things that we look back and go like, man, we really tried to do too much at once when we first started. And so just as entrepreneurs, just trying to figure it out, figure out what our strengths are, how we can kind of work together to make this company thrive. And I think we're in a nice sort of sweet spot right now.

Great. We have one minute before break. Can you tell people how to follow you? And if you have any upcoming projects or podcasts coming out, feel free to let them know too. Absolutely. You can find us at deckthehallmark.com on the socials at Hallmark Podcast. And you can watch our video exclusively on Philo. That's philo.tv slash DTH. Christmas season's over.

The pod don't stop for us. We cover movies from every network. We've covered the Fast and Furious movies. We've covered TV shows. We cover stuff all year long on Deck the Hallmark. Bran has a podcast called Christmas Morning where they celebrate Christmas every week. It's real stupid. If you want a little dash of Christmas spirit in March...

Christmas morning is your place. So yeah, a lot going on in our neck of the woods and it'll be Christmas season before you know it. And I'm sad we didn't get to talk about policy, but we'll talk about that next time, guys. Gentlemen, Merry Christmas. Have a great holiday and we look forward to have you on again soon. You've been fantastic. Merry Christmas. Take care.

Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds with your host Chuck Moran. I'm Sam Stone. Folks, you've heard us talking for a while now about why refi. If you haven't been on their website, if you haven't given them a call and checked it out, you really need to do that.

With YRefi, you can earn up to a 10.25% fixed rate of return. That's right, 10.25% fixed rate of return. If you need your money back at any time, there's no attack on your principal. You can choose to compound your interest. You can take it as monthly income. You have fantastic flexibility, and this is an opportunity to do well for yourself while doing good for others, helping students get their student loan debt

under control. Folks, check them out. Invest, the letter Y, then refy.com or give them a call at 888-Y-REFY24 and tell them Chuck and Sam sent you. Fantastic. Well, we are here with Celeste Edmonds. She has wrote the book Garbage Bag Girl.

And Celeste, instead of, there you are holding it up, instead of me going over and giving a synopsis of the book, why don't you tell us a little bit about the book, why you wrote it, and how we got the title Garbage Bag Girl. Okay, thank you so much for having me. Thank you.

So the story is my life in the child welfare system specifically really concentrated on the areas between the ages of seven to nine when I had the most fluctuation between foster homes and living with family members.

drug rehabilitation centers, hotels. It just kind of takes you through what that looked like. It's very, very detailed, very graphic, just a little warning with some of the experiences that I had. And we really hope, Richard and I, that a couple of things will happen. And that is, one, people will

have dialogue about the child welfare system from the standpoint of how how can I help it's been around a long time so how can I help make a difference and then at our Christmas box house emergency shelters where we take children in because they're removed because of abuse neglect trafficking or homelessness they are in state state custody and confidential

And so oftentimes the wonderful items that we receive from the community, those folks never get to meet these kids. The kids never get to meet them.

I really hope that there's a little bit of insight now into what their lives look like so people can better understand, you know, what child welfare really looks like when we take children and we put them into a system. We're with Celeste Edmonds. She is the author of Garbage Bag Girl. Also with her today is Richard Paul Evans who helped co-write it and she actually wrote

is his executive director at Christmas Box International. You can buy this book, by the way, folks, at celestedmonds.com, amazon.com, or richardpaulevenstore.com. Let me ask you this question real quick. Was it therapeutic, or how hard was it to write this book? And I'm sure you've had these memories a lot, but putting something down or writing like this for others to read, you're saying, I'm vulnerable, but it also makes you courageous. Right.

How does, how was that for you and how does it relate to you being better at your job? Um, so it, it was both the hardest thing I've ever done. And I've birthed three children just for the record. And also, um, very rewarding and healing on the other side, coming out of it allowed me an opportunity to, um,

work through and forgive, um, people that hurt me and also forgive myself for some of the decisions I ended up making due to the crazy place that I ended up being in my head. And it, so it really did both. It took me through a lot of trauma for sure in writing it. It was very, very difficult. And then I came out, you know, on the other side, feeling much, much more healed. Um,

I would say that I questioned for a while whether I made the right decision to publish it. It was really hard when it came time to kind of push, send on the email, if you will. I had a moment of, oh gosh, my kids, my family. It wasn't strangers so much. It was like people that know me are going to read it and they're going to have this

deeper insight into some very graphic stuff. And I did get a little nervous with that, I'm not going to lie. That makes me anxious for you. Yeah. Yeah, we have just about a minute and change before we go to break here. We're going to be coming back with more from Celeste Edmonds, author of the new book, Garbage Bag Girl. It's a depressingly, unfortunately, Celeste, and we'll get into this more after the break, but your story is depressingly too common in the child welfare system today.

But we do get to have happy endings. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And it's a fantastic happy ending to write this book. How much are you hoping that this will change the direction of some of the things that we're doing in child welfare?

I'd like to say that I hope it changes it a lot, but here's the challenges. Having gone through it in the early 80s and I think about how much has and hasn't changed today, and really that's complicated. Anything involving policy, as we know, takes 10 years to influence, but I think we can talk about it. I think there's other ways that we can influence it besides a state and federal level quickly.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's a critical discussion to have. And it's one people don't want to have because it's looking into something that is is dark and oftentimes very intimidating for folks. Thank you, Celeste, for joining us. We're going to be coming right back with more from Celeste Edmonds here on Breaking Battlegrounds. Folks, make sure you check out our podcast and website, BreakingBattlegrounds.vote. We'll be back in just a moment.

At Overstock, we know home is a pretty important place, and that's why we believe everyone deserves a home that makes them happy. Whether you're furnishing a new house or apartment or simply looking to update and refresh a few rooms, Overstock has everyday free shipping and amazing deals on the beautiful, high-quality furniture and decor you need to transform any home into the home of your dreams. Overstock, making dream homes come true.

Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds with your host, Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone. We're continuing on right now with Celeste Edmonds. She is the director, executive director of Christmas Box International and author of the new book, Garbage Bag Girl, which you can find on Amazon, RichardPaulEvansStore.com and others. And before we went to break, we were talking a little bit about what a difficult experience this is. Richard, I know you've had...

opportunity to write so many books that have impacted so many people. What was, you know, what was your collaboration on this project and how important was it for you to help tell this story? When I hired Celeste to be my personal assistant. So I knew, I knew her as a, as a young chick. And are we allowed to use, are we allowed to say that anymore? We can on 960 AM the Patriot continue. Go ahead.

Well, that was, I meant like a chicken. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We got it. We're just giving you a little Christmas grief. She would drop little hints about her childhood. And I was like, what? What are you telling me? And then she told about this day that the last day she saw her father. It was so moving that I put it in one of my books.

Finding Noel, I thought what a great thing to add. The book was huge. I mean, People Magazine, Entertainment Weekly jumped on it. It was a huge book. And I said, we need to write your whole story. That was a long time ago, like 27 years ago. And it took her this long. I mean, she went from working with me to helping to found the Christmas box house.

And then she went down the commercial world and she came back. I said, you know, is it time, Celeste? And so it was exciting. And there were parts when I read the whole thing, I'd call her and I'd just be very emotional. It's like, I'm sorry, honey.

I'm sorry you went through this. This was really, really rough. So it was a blessing to write it, but also then to take it out. The book's selling really well, and I have 46 New York Times bestsellers. So to be able to bring it out and then hopefully into a movie, it's been exciting to work with Celeste and to see the success of this book. Richard, when you talk Celeste into doing this, it's sort of like a –

at a park, put an acorn out for a squirrel. This is a hard thing to write about, right? I mean, I get anxious just hearing about what you went through and I don't, I'm gonna buy the book and then I'll be depressed, I'm sure, reading it. But were you concerned like, I am taking this dear friend, and I know, Richard, how protective you are of friendships. Did that cross your mind saying, I'm sort of putting it on a blank and saying,

You need to become vulnerable here so people can learn. Was that hard for you to make that decision and encourage her to do this? Well, I know Celeste well enough to know she wanted to do it. I never would have pushed her into something that she wasn't able to do and wanted to do. I mean, she would bring it up, not me. And I mean, I have enough books I'm working on. Right. But I wanted to help her to birth this thing and also to be there because every now and then she'd call me and she's like, I can't do it.

I can't write this. It's too much. And then when I get some of that, it's like, you got to go deeper, Celeste. You need to be, you need to share the real story. And that's where we went back between being graphic and not graphic. It's like, it's not enough to say he took away your innocence. It's like, we need to know what happened with this, with this man. And there's some real villains, but make no mistake, Chuck, the story is hopeful. And her ending, I couldn't write a better, happy ending. And it's all true.

And that's what I mean, if you look at Celeste and listen to her, she's resilient. She's she's a powerful woman. She is. And I've never worked with anyone who's more passionate about what she's doing. I mean, she doesn't she doesn't punch a clock. She's working 60 hours a week. Well, let me ask you this question. We're the Celeste Edmonds. She is the author of Garbage Bag Girl, which you can buy an Amazon dot com website.

Celeste, what makes you unique? Because a lot of people who go through this horrible childhood, bouncing around 30 different cities, having a garbage bag for what you owned. Why do you think your situation is different than many others that go through this and their life is just one of turmoil over and over and over?

Well, in writing my story, one of the things that helped me get my head around is that when you're in it, you don't think so much about this perspective. But as I was writing it,

I was able to think about and even interview many of those kind of guardian angels that came in at very unusual times, popped into my life and made a significant difference to just get me a little bit further before the hammer dropped again and then someone else would come in. And so I think it's important always in trauma situations

to go back and visit and think through the people that came along in your life that helped you. And the more you understand that, the more you understand yourself, the more you build kind of this resiliency muscle, I call it. Give us an example of one or two of these guardian angels that stepped up and were part of your growth process, your healing process.

So there's a lot of Jen's in the book. That's just a coincidence. At least you didn't use Karen. At least you didn't use the name Karen. I probably would have changed it. Nobody likes that. We went a generation and like a quarter of the girls on the planet got named Jennifer. Poor Karen. It's so true. So tell us a couple of the Jen's. One of the Jen's, the most significant, who I actually give credit for saving my life literally because she ended up picking up

picking me up physically, throwing me over her shoulder. She's much, much taller than me. And we're still friends today. And she started hauling me down the street. And she's like, my mom said you can live with us and you're not going to go through this anymore. And she's just freaking out, screaming. And it was her and then her mom. Because you think I was I was legally adopted into a family. And this mom went out of her way to basically legally harbor a minor.

and take me into their home. And so those are two guardian angels just in that family that really stepped up for me. How's it been having a, I'm sure Richard Paul Evans has been a big influence in your life.

How important is it to have a Richard Paul Evans say, I believe you. I mean, he hired you as an assistant, right? I mean, I think a lot of people don't understand. Come on. I need you to answer the phone. Get some things for me. But, you know, I'm sure he saw more into you. What does it mean to have a Richard Paul Evans in your life? And how does other people need to be stepping up and doing that role as well? It's actually a fabulous question because when I first started working for him, I was only 21.

And I was newly married, going to have a baby and all, you know, all this trauma had happened. And there's also some, some religious trauma that came, came into play. Um, and he recognized really quickly his diamond in the rough and used very strong language around being able to be successful and being proud of me. Those are things I'd never heard before. And it gave me a lot of, um,

Trust in myself that somebody that could be credible would be willing to step up and give me a platform and a voice and trust me and I trust them. And I think that, you know, we get into corporate world nonprofit. It doesn't really matter. I think we get really honed in on.

people's credentials very quickly and we don't take a step back and look at what they really have to offer. And I kept saying to him, well, I haven't finished my bachelor's degree. He's like, I don't care. It's irrelevant right now, right? He just kept really giving me this focus of you have all these other skill sets to offer the world. And it took him a while. I didn't really believe it. And he just pushed and pushed. And we've done really amazing things together. So I think people need to really build the strength of where people are

Versus what they don't have to make a difference. Celeste, earlier when Richard was talking, he talked about you would be sending emails as part of this process saying, I just can't go through, you know, can't go on, can't relive this. How much did pressing through those barriers or did it help you going forward to, you know, put some of these experiences that you went through forward?

in a better place in your mind or put your, I guess, put your life in a better place, put those further behind you? Yeah, I would send him texts and we'd go back and forth. And the moments I questioned were because I was questioning whether I would really be able to write about them. There's a couple of things in the book I've never told anybody until they were written.

And so it was really just encouraging me to be courageous. He, of course, always said, if there's something you're definitely not comfortable with, we won't write it. But in full disclosure, I also have a trauma therapist on speed dials. Yeah.

Because I always say, now I believe everyone should write their story. I don't believe everyone should publish their story, but I do believe everybody should write it. The ability to recognize what you've accomplished in your life and look back through it is really a miracle to yourself. And it really starts to build, again, I call it the resiliency muscle. It really starts to build this strength you didn't know you had because you get to say,

I'm kind of a bad A, right? I made it through something and it really gives you kind of a grounding perspective about yourself. And then to be able to take that into my role today as executive director only burst that empowerment. I mean, it just makes me, our motto is every child deserves a childhood. And I extend my message that no child deserves to feel like garbage ever. And I think that that, I mean, that just gives me this strength every day to say,

We can do it together and make a difference. And you brought up a really important point here, and this is a question for both Celeste and Richard. And Richard, I'll start with you. We often, as human beings, don't realize the progress we're making, right? We're a little too hard on ourself. And Richard, how have you found writing and then reflecting back on it makes us realize we are making impressive steps forward?

And I think you probably saw that in this book a lot, probably more than ever after you got done writing and said, you know what? I'm doing okay. I'm doing okay. Do you find that with writing, Richard, when you go and do that and do it intently that you see the progress you're making? Yeah. Well, you know, it's the 30-year anniversary of The Christmas Box. And this is still my best-selling book. It's sold 8 million copies, if you can wrap your head around that. I look at my books today. They're much more sophisticated, much more complex, and

And yet that book had the magic. And so I look at it, it's like I've grown as a writer, which is my idea. But yeah, I can see that I've written 46 bestselling novels. But also I wanted to add that, I think it was Kant, maybe Sartre, who said, life is understood when we look backwards.

But unfortunately, we have to live forward and looking forward. And that's really looking back over the time that we had. I could see incredible growth, especially in Celeste, because I don't want to say she was a project, but I saw her and I thought, this diamond, she's going to do great things. And she doesn't see it yet, but I do.

And to see that she has accomplished those great things. She was named Utah Woman Marketer of the Year. She's done some really cool things and now she's doing a great job as director. So it's been fun to watch her step into who she really is. And that's all I wanted to do is help her see who she is. And I think this book is kind of the, what do you think Celeste, kind of the final touch?

You know, I hate to say it's my last chapter, if you will, but really the Christmas Box International, it's my legacy. It's not a job for me. It's something I'm passionate about. It's something that next to raising my children will be what I'm the most proud of. And people always ask me, what do you want out of your life? I want to leave it better than I found it.

better than I put into it. How old are your kids? How old are your kids, by the way? My oldest son is 28. My middle daughter's 25. And then I have an almost 19 year old. We're good. We have two minutes left in this segment. If you don't mind staying with us 10 minutes more to go on the podcast, I want to talk about Christmas Box International a little bit here at our Christmas themed show. How did your three children react after reading the book?

So my 19, almost 19 year old, my youngest read it first. And I came home from a speaking event and I knocked on the door and asked if I could come in and I walked in her bedroom and she was sobbing. He was holding the book and I was like, okay, that's what just happened. And I could tell she was close to the end where she was holding her hand in the pages. And I just sat by her.

And I said, "Honey, are you okay? Is there anything you want to talk about here?" And she kept crying and crying and finally she's wiping her face off and she said, "Mom,

I just want you to know how proud I am of you. You are such an incredible woman. You're an inspiration to me. And we both cried. And then something really even more cool happened. She left and came back and she walked in the house and she was holding chocolate milk and Funyuns.

And when you read the book, you'll understand it more. It was the last treasure my dad gave me when I was seven. They were my favorite treats. And we sat together and ate those and drank that and had a crying moment of she wanted me to know that she saw me differently.

And she heard me and she read the message and all it did was empower her, which made me, you know, feel good. Yeah, 100 percent. Been better than McDonald's because then we could got some sponsor money for that. But nonetheless, we appreciate that. We'll be continuing on on the podcast segment. Make sure you tune in for that, folks. More with Celeste Edmonds, Richard Paul Evans and about her new book, Garbage Bag Girl. Stay tuned. Check us out. Also, Breaking Battlegrounds dot vote and wherever you get your favorite podcast. Merry Christmas, folks.

The 2022 political field was intense, so don't get left behind in 2024. If you're running for political office, the first thing on your to-do list needs to be securing your name on the web with a yourname.votewebdomain from godaddy.com. Get yours now.

Welcome to the podcast segment of Breaking Battlegrounds with your host Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone. We're continuing on right now with Celeste Edmonds. She is the author of the new book Garbage Bag Girl, describes her experience, unbelievable, horrific experience being raped, tortured, horribly abused through the child welfare system. Today she is the director of the Christmas Box International Foundation.

helping tens of thousands of children worldwide, a beacon of hope and resiliency. And we're going to be talking a little bit more about the Christmas Box International because it's an incredibly special thing that you all are doing there. But before we get to that, I want to talk a little bit about your experience, the child welfare system, how it's evolved and how it hasn't. Because your experience, unfortunately,

Everyone's experience has unique elements, but the overall story is one that I've heard before dealing with the child welfare issues. Celeste, how many kids right now do you know are in the child welfare system, and how common are experiences like yours among them? Well, I can tell you about almost 500,000 children, almost half a million are in foster care.

And you think about that number and then once a child reaches the age of four. Celeste, let me stop you there one minute question. Will you explain people the difference? I don't think people understand. What's the difference between a child in foster care and one up for adoption? I don't think people understand the difference.

Well, kids can be in foster care and waiting for biological parents to understand and accept and go through the program that the state, their state is telling them they need to do in order to get their children back, right? So there can be a temporary hold on children in foster care. And then some right away issues are just

too big or parents have been working on it for several years and it's not turning around and they've been, you know, deemed adoptable, if you will. But I think, you know, the challenge is that once a kiddo reaches the age of four, their chances of being adopted drop 50%.

And it's because, understandably so, people wanted an infant, right? That you can raise and you don't know all the trauma that came with them. They don't have as much baggage. And so I think those kids are really the ones that start to get left in the system. They get transitioned a lot. Many of them are heavily medicated. We call that mood management. And by the time they emancipate or graduate out,

they're graduating from a system. They're not graduating from a family of support. That's uniquely different, right? Then like my children, they could come home. Where are these kids going to go home to? And statistically, if a child emancipates foster care and they don't have a place to go, they have an average of three days before they get approached by a trafficker. And that sounds awful to all of us, and it is awful, but to someone that has no other option

They don't view that as a bad gig, by the way. And we know long-term ramifications how bad that is. So it's just, it's a complicated system. Desperation breeds those kind of decisions that have lifelong impacts. One of the things, you know, obviously alluding to the title of your book, Garbage Bag Girl, I don't think most people understand, Celeste. And, you know, talk about what happens when someone ages out of that system.

Yeah, it's a critical time. And one of the reasons, you know, when I was hesitant of publishing because I was scared about what people would read and how they'd react and if I'd hurt somebody's feelings, I was still kind of in that place. And I had three young women after a speaking engagement walk up to me who had gone through homelessness and they'd come back into finding a good program for themselves to help them learn life skills.

And they were crying so hard. And one of them said, we just want to tell you thank you for sharing our story collectively. And it really hit me hard at that moment that I really was sharing a collective story. Even though our experiences are a little different, there is a collective mentality that starts to happen of lack of support with children. And I also realized that they trusted me very much to carry that message.

And so it really, you know, empowered me to make that decision. But the statistics are fairly glim overall for kiddos who emancipate foster care. And it's because of that reason I mentioned, right? It's because they're leaving a system. They're not leaving necessarily a family unit. Now, those foster homes, they're not all created equal.

I have met some kids that have had an amazing experience. They still connect to that loving family that treated them like they were their own. They go back for holiday stuff. And that's the difference. They had a home, like my adopted mom in the books dedicated to told me, homes where they have to keep you, sweetie. They don't kick you out because you said something wrong or you offended me.

or you made a decision I didn't like, you always get to come home. And they're not hearing that message. They're not hearing home is where they have to keep you. What would be your advice, Celeste, to somebody? Because what happens, I think a lot of people don't understand, when you age out of that system, if you're not in one of those good, loving type foster environments, and many, some are, many aren't, you're given a garbage bag for your

your life possessions and you're kicked out the front door totally adrift. What would you tell somebody who's facing that? What a kid who is 17 and getting ready to have that become their, the next phase of their reality. What would you tell them to do on that day?

I would tell them to find the fastest resource that they can. Usually that's around a teen specific, not an adult, a teen specific homeless resource center. Those are very available in most states and they offer wraparound care. So even I would tell them, even if that's temporary, you're going to find those hidden treasures and those programs that are going to help you get the things you're going to need. And today that's,

That may not be love. That may be hard job and life skills. That may be what do you, do you want to graduate college? There's probably funding for you to be able to do that. Get very critical in your mind and start recognizing where your power is. I know there's a gap and you're hurt and everyone deserves that love and that home. But in the meantime, you have to function and you're going to do that for yourself. If I may, if I may interject, um,

Within two years, 48 months, half the kids who leave the system will be either pregnant, homeless, abused, or dead.

Half? Half, yeah. If you got up within graduation and said, congratulations, seniors, but this is where half of you will be. The thing is that makes it tough, though, is that these kids are also the problem because you don't know what you don't know. And so they'll actually say, no, I don't need help. So it's less said about finding the place. The kids are the problem themselves that they'll say, no, I'm good on the street. I can do it. And they go out there and then all of a sudden they're caught up by traffickers, drug dealers, drug dealers.

And so to build a relationship you can connect to, that's what's important and to build a place of trust. I'm a policy guy. I'm always looking for ways we can do these things better. And one of the things that struck me, Celeste, is we don't do enough in that final year or two before they turn 18 to prep them for that transition. And there ought to be structured programs to help make that facilitate those better choices. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, there are some states like Utah that will extend those foster care services all the way to age 26, depending on the situation. And I think that falls into right, like biological homes where you can insure your children now to the age of 26. I think states that are not offering that are being urged to take

you know, harder looks at that. That's a very important policy structure to say, most of our kids in our own home, I think about my kids turning age 18, there wasn't a miraculous moment where, okay, now you're an adult. They all texted me and said, adulting kind of sucks, frankly. And they have a lot of supports, right? So you take these kids that don't,

And we have to offer a time to transition them. We have to do that as a system. And that means if you're giving them a bunch of services while they're in child welfare, you don't have a hard stop. Okay, well, good luck. I hope it works out with your meds and I hope you can find a place to live and all the things that we're trying to help our kids at home do.

That that has to happen through policy shifts of extending services longer. And some states do it. Utah does. Not all states do that. Arizona fails miserably in that area. Yeah, it's tough. And then they're the ones on the street and people are complaining. They're dealing with homeless, you know, young adults. So like, where where do you think they came from? They they were put into that situation.

Yeah. Well, let's transition here as we have limited time. Let's talk about the Christmas box a little bit, which Richard created and funds quite a bit. And you're the executive director of one thing. I do want to know if you talk about it is how many kids have you heard? Tell us some success stories from the Christmas box. People. This is supposed to be a hopeful message today. So let's talk about some hope. Yes. Christmas box international is hot is solution driven. And that is what I like to end the conversation on. And that is, you know, the, the,

Again, when they come into the program, it's all the way to age 18. So the sibling groups are staying together. That's a critical component to strength and success for these kids to have each other. So we have that. And then when they're there, they receive wraparound services. Christmas box is more than just a place. It is a concept.

where government, nonprofit and community come together and wrap around and rally around the needs of a child. So dental care, well childcare visits, medication management, all the things that on the backend kids need,

And then on the front end, we give them childhood experiences that many of them have never had before to let them know what that feels like. Let's say they've never been to an ice cream shop where they get to put their own toppings on. They've never as an older sibling said, you get 30 minutes off to not be a parent and go play out in that yard. What does that even look like for you? And, you know, those are not therapeutic experiences.

Things that you can dismiss to teach a child that they have a right to have a childhood is very significant because long term You're greatly affected by that. So We're getting the love night coming back now. Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah, I get to talk to him Yeah, I was at a I was at a book signing and I had this really long line and there's this young woman kept looking at me She got closer and closer and finally was her turn and I said, well come on up and

And she goes, my whole life, Mr. Evans, I've wanted to meet you. And I said, you like my book? She goes, no, I've never read them. Every author loves to hear. Why did you want to meet me? She goes, I'm a Christmas box house kid. And I said, how are you doing? She goes, well, I wanted to tell you, my brother and I would take it from a drug addict parents, very similar to what Celeste said.

And no one wanted both of us, just one of us. And because at the Christmas box house, we got to live together. And then mom and dad came in, adopted both of us. She goes, I was told by my caseworker, if it wasn't for you in the Christmas box house, I would never would have had my brother. And I just want to say thank you for him. And what a beautiful, I mean, that's the kind of thing on your deathbed you can be thinking about, right? I mean, that's, that's happy, happy.

Happy news. And then Celeste and I were at a fundraiser at a high school. And here it is, the student body vice president gets up there and he goes, "I want to show you all something." And he holds up a teddy bear and goes, "This is what I got when I walked into the Christmas box house." Ricky the raccoon. "Rocky the raccoon." He goes, "I still have him after all these years." So these are wonderful success stories that we're seeing more and more of these kids grow up.

We have alumni reach out every single day to me. I mean, there's not a day that goes by. I don't get an email from one. That's wonderful. One walks in the door and they say, I was here and I want to know how I can give back. I mean, talk about breaking a cycle for them to come back and say, how can I help a system that removed me?

is awesome i mean really amazing well celeste and richard we're going to end on that upbeat note for this christmas show folks go you can visit the christmas box.org and pick up the book garbage bag girl amazon.com richard paul evans store.com celeste edmonds.com celeste richard thanks for joining us today merry christmas to you christmas to you and merry christmas to everyone out there in radio land and on the internet listening thank you have a great day

So moving on from Celeste Edmonds, Richard Paul Evans, her amazing story about her journey in her new book, Garbage Bag Girl, we're moving straight into Kylie's Corner.

Which normally is not a Christmassy type thing unless you feel like mass murder is a Christmas thing. Nope, not right now. Hopefully nothing's happening. Do we have a non-morbid Kylie's Corner coming up? We do. I have some fun facts that you can take to your Christmas table this year. Oh, fantastic. So my first fact is people have been sending Christmas cards since 1843 and how the tradition started was

was Sir Henry Cole worked as a senior civil servant and he helped assist opening what we now call the post office. But he wanted it

He wanted to try to encourage ordinary people to use it. So he came up with the idea of sending your family and friends Christmas cards, and he would charge one shilling, which I looked it up, and that's about .0064 cents. He did this to pimp the Postal Service? Pretty much. Tried to get it going so that us... So it's not a Hallmark conspiracy. It's a Postal Service conspiracy. Oh, my God. And do you guys know what the first Christmas song that ever played in space was? Silent Night? Nope. Jingle Bells.

Silent Night would be way more appropriate. Well, that's why I guessed it. So during the Gemini 6A space flight, it was broadcast by an astronaut in space down below as a joke. And it was actually the first song ever played in space. Today would be Mariah Carey if it was the first song. Exactly. Jingle Bells was also originally written for Thanksgiving. And its original name was The One Horse Open Sleigh.

Not. It was not written for Christmas. Wait, what? Why was it written for Thanksgiving? Don't ask those questions. I'm not sure. It's Kylie's Corner. These are just the fun facts. Come on. Wait a minute. It just wasn't. Um,

So my next one is Christmas decorating. This is a little sad. Sends nearly 15,000 people to the ER every year. How many? 13,000 people? No, 15,000 people. Because of Christmas decorating? Yeah. See, in my house, no one ever went to the ER, but the manic panic for two weeks of decorating definitely put some people in the psychologist chair. That's 240 injuries a day. The most common were falling incidents, lacerations, or back strains.

Yeah, I bet the latter people fought the latter. Okay, back strains don't count. Yeah, I agree. You shouldn't be going. Just wait till the doctor opens after the holidays. Seriously, take a couple of Advil. But I could see a lot of people, especially when they get older on those ladders falling off. Sure, sure, sure.

Falling from the ladder is what happened, though. So the abbreviation Xmas actually means Christmas. Yeah, it used to be a Christian symbol back in the olden times. Okay, that was something I didn't know. Well, for the non-religious, Kylie. I did know that, by the way, and it drove me crazy because one year working with a candidate, not for them, but for my own account, I sent out a Merry Xmas, you know,

Post whatever. And I had all these people just tearing me apart. Oh, yeah. No, they get very grumpy about it. I did that once on a – actually a church email reply. And they did get lectured and I said, no, that's not what it means. You're, you know, blah, blah, blah. So thank you, Kylie. Yeah, for those that don't know.

X means Christ. And my final one is the Christmas tree was actually an ancient tradition that started back with the Egyptians and Romans, and they would decorate evergreens during the winter solstice to signify that spring is coming back and the green is coming back soon. I think as we finish up here, we can all agree Elf is the best Christmas movie. Absolutely.

Die Hard is the best Christmas movie. If you're doing Die Hard, you have to do Lethal Weapon, which I watched this week because I was in the spirit. Yeah. Yes. Fully legitimate. But how can you even say Elf? Oh, come on. Folks, Kylie, thank you. That was very good. Yeah, take those to the Christmas table. Folks, we wish you a Merry Christmas.

If you think about it and do think about it, take the time to call someone who may need a phone call this weekend or an invitation over or go see them. One of the things as a single guy who has to travel across the country, which I can't always do.

It's really important to connect. If you're out there on your own, connect with your friends who are because chances are they're not doing anything either and you're going to have more fun and more spirit working together. Get together. Do a little dinner on your own. Do a little singles dinner. Pick up the phone. Take a coffee, but do it. And folks, we wish you a Merry Christmas and we look forward next week to our New Year's Eve goal show. And again, we're going no politics next week. No politics. Well, maybe.

Well, mostly. I mean, we did this with mostly non-politics. We just talked about a problem. Exactly. Folks, follow us at BreakingBattlegrounds.vote. Subscribe on our sub stack or visit anywhere you listen to your podcasts. On behalf of Sam, Chuck, and Kylie of Kylie's Corner. And Jeremy. And who now knows X and Jeremy. Merry Christmas. Have a great weekend. Enjoy your loved ones.