Shownotes Transcript
I'm John Walczak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. Swine off.
In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.
In the early morning hours of September 6, 2016, St. Louis rapper and activist Darren Seals was found murdered. That's what they gonna learn. On for death, on for nothing. Every day Darren would tell her, all right, ma, be prepared.
They are going to try to kill me. All episodes available now. Listen to After the Uprising, The Murder of Darren Seals on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. From iHeart Podcasts comes Does This Murder Make Me Look Gay?,
9-1-1, what's your emergency? Mastavati is dead! Featuring the star-studded talents of Michael Urie, Jonathan Freeman, Frankie Grande, Cheyenne Jackson, Robin de Jesus, and Kate McKinnon as Angela Lansfair. Lick them, lick those toesies. Listen to Does This Murder Make Me Look Gay? as part of the Outspoken Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast discusses sexual assault.
Please take care while listening. He wanted us to think he was cool. He wanted to be one of the kids he wanted to fit in, and it worked. We were like, oh, this guy is letting us get away with pretending we're in this club and getting credit for it. That's awesome. Let's all do it. We're all president. Let's go. And we all thought it was super funny, and it was just kind of like a running joke. So the idea of that carrying on for other reasons is terrifying. I'm Andrea Gunning.
And this is Betrayal. Episode 4, Damages. In the summer of 2021, Jennifer texted our show's production team. There was news about Spencer's parole. Jennifer was in the car on location at work.
Well, you know, when I emailed Spence the other day, he said that he was having his parole hearing today. So, I don't know. It's just really affected my whole nervous system knowing that I may find out today that he's getting out soon. Oh my God. And I'm not really prepared for that yet. What went through your mind? I feel like he was just put in prison and now he's already getting out.
It's hard because with him in there, I felt safer. With him coming out, not so much. I'm sorry, Jen. He got some time off of his sentence for good behavior. He's been a teacher's aide and I'm sure he's been leading Bible studies. And so he's already gotten several months knocked off of his sentence. And he goes in front of the parole board today saying,
I don't know how it works, but I mean, what if he gets out tomorrow, you know? Do you know if anybody gets to write a letter to submit against the parole? Because I imagine the victim of the sexual assault must be made aware that he's up for parole, right? Well, I mean, I think the victim has to be told when he gets released. How were you approaching parole?
Or was it just something that you get kind of kept at arm's length? I kind of have been keeping it at arm's length. I just don't want to think about it. I just hate being this person on set. You know, a couple of people are like, you're kind of quiet today, Jennifer. And you know, I don't want to be that mopey person. I just, I can't help it right now. You know, it's like when you get past heartache, you know, you usually get to move on and, um,
I just feel like I'm going to be starting back over again for a little bit with him out and knowing that he's out. Getting past the heartache and starting over, it's something that Jennifer and the sexual assault victim had to do. Both described shame as a big hurdle, even when you know you aren't the guilty party. Jennifer would feel it when she was out in public. People are looking at me and kind of, oh, that's her.
The sexual assault victim had her anonymity. That didn't protect her from shame.
Just turning on the television after Spencer's arrest revealed how some community members viewed her. You don't always know what the truth is. I mean, someone can say something about somebody just to hurt their reputation. You don't know. I would always want to know the history of this person making the complaint as well. You know, what kind of history do they have? Could they have provoked something like that? Perhaps it's the reason the victim was fearful to come forward sooner. After Spencer Herron was arrested, the victim never heard from any school official.
Not one person reached out to ask how she was doing. Even with Spencer behind bars, the victim had an uphill battle.
Eventually, Jennifer would learn how he abused his role as a teacher and mentor and became a predator in the halls of Kell High School. My name is Mike Rafey. I'm a lawyer in Atlanta and I help people. Mike's a civil attorney. The sexual assault victim's parents reached out to him because they wanted to pursue a case against Kell High School. Most of our cases are people who are critically or seriously injured and a small percentage of our cases are
are people who, like this client, are victims of sexual assault in places like hospitals, apartment complexes, hotels, and schools. Mike and one of his colleagues went to meet the victim and her parents at their home. When we left my client's house, we started reading a text message log that had been given to the police. And there was a lot. It was straight out of "To Catch a Predator."
reading this chat history as a 30-something year old, I felt like I was Chris Hansen. I can see the manipulation. I can see the terms that are being used, the words that are being twisted and so on. This is one of those cases that we left that house and said, "This is really fucked up and we have to do something." I'm actually, my blood's boiling right now as I'm telling this story because I remember we left the house so angry and I'm still angry, maybe even angrier to this day.
As the sexual assault victim from Kell High School sought therapy and support for what happened to her, she began to fully grasp how she had been manipulated, abused. She was angry. Angry that Kell High School had never addressed it in a meaningful way. Mike Raffey spent a lot of time piecing together how it happened. It took him down a path of investigating Kell High School's after-school clubs. The clubs were key to Spencer getting the victim alone without raising suspicion.
The way it's supposed to work is that students are supposed to get together and say, "We'd like to have a club. We're really interested in this." They would then go to a faculty member who probably has an interest in the club or at least help spur that interest and say, "We really like you to be our leader for this club. Would you please do that?" There has to be a certain number of signatures showing student involvement. Parents have to agree that if this club was created, then my child would be allowed to participate in the club.
There's a budgeting component to it, and then there's administrator approval. And the faculty advisor has to submit a plan of what is the goal, the purpose of this plan, how will we execute it. Then the administration is supposed to formally approve or disapprove it. Spencer had a history of sponsoring clubs, but some of them were fake. My name is Julia, and Coach Erin was my high school video productions teacher.
I graduated from Cal High School in 2010. I had him for my junior year and my senior year. A lot of my best friends had him freshman and sophomore too, so I always knew of him and I wanted to be in his class because it was a sought after program. It was a cool class to be a part of.
Even when I didn't have him, we would hang out in his classroom and in the edit rooms. Everyone who had him loved him. He was the fun class, the fun teacher, the fun program. You got to be on the announcements. You got to work on these cool projects and kind of roam the hallways and get some B-roll while other kids are sitting in their classes learning about history or math. It didn't feel like a class.
When I was a junior, Coach Herring started a fake club. And we all put it on our, it wasn't your resume, but we put, you know, president of a movie club. It was called movie club. You know, on the chair of movie club, which it was all a fake club. I think we took like a picture together for it, maybe in the yearbook. I don't know. But it wasn't real. We never met. It was like a, it was really fake. Like it was pretend. Why would a teacher make up a school club?
Because he wanted us to think he was cool. He wanted to be one of the kids he wanted to fit in, and it worked. We were like, "Oh, this guy is letting us get away with pretending we're in this club and getting credit for it. That's awesome. Let's all do it. We're all president. Let's go." And we all thought it was super funny, and it was just kind of like a running joke. So the idea of that carrying on for other reasons is terrifying.
I'm John Walczak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI.
In 2001, police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids. And rigged my house to explode. In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is him and the sniper me out of some tree.
But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years. They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in a cave. Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.
Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house, the hunt, family annihilation today, and a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.
New from Double Asterisk, an iHeart Podcast, a 10-part true crime podcast series. Emergency 911. It's a fire in my parking lot. This car is on fire. In the early morning hours of September 6, 2016, St. Louis rapper and iconic Ferguson activist Darren Seals was found shot dead. Every day Darren would tell her, they are going to try to kill me.
A young man in 2016 was killed on this block. I'm a podcast journalist. And I'm a former state senator, Maria Chappelle Nadal. I was in the movement with Darren, and I've spent two years with co-host Ray Novoshevsky investigating his death. Even if I did want to tell you something, that's a dangerous game to play. The FBI did this to myself. They've been following him for months. That's enough proof right there. All episodes available now.
Listen to After the Uprising Season 2, The Murder of Darren Seals, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, it's Andrea Gunning. The Trail is now releasing episodes every single week. We're bringing you new stories about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything. Every week, we'll share firsthand accounts of broken trust. I was sitting there thinking, what?
Who did I marry? Shocking deceptions. I said, I can't believe what I'm listening to. And the trail of destruction they leave behind. To me now, a rom-com is a horror movie. I couldn't watch that if you paid me. Now you can get access to Betrayal Weekly 100% ad-free and one week early with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription. Available exclusively on Apple Podcasts.
Plus, you'll get access to other chart-topping true crime shows you love, like There and Gone South Street, Creating a Con, The Story of BitCon, Paper Ghosts, Unrestorable, The Girlfriends, and more. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeartTrue Crime Plus, and subscribe today. In 2015, Spencer sponsored a drone club.
It began as a real club with real members and real meetings. Students even had fundraisers where they would sell t-shirts and videos so they could purchase a real drone. The problem was, the club never went through official channels and was never authorized.
If you have a club that doesn't go through this process, then you don't have that oversight and you don't have any of that guidance. You don't have the faculty member answering or reporting to their administration. Instead, you have the faculty member being able to do whatever it is that he wants, whenever he wants to. And that's what happened here. Eventually, the drone club died out and stopped having meetings.
But Spencer continued to see one member of the club. It continued to be a time and a place in a school where a teacher had full access to some place to take a student without the student having to leave school grounds. Because typically when you leave school grounds, you got to tell your parents where you're going. So this teacher has a perfect opportunity to lure a student into a place where they won't be caught and where they can do whatever he wants to do.
It wasn't what she wanted to do. It was what he wanted to do. And what he wanted to do was take advantage of Mike's client. If you remember when you were a kid, every once in a while an administrator would come in your classroom and watch your teacher. That's the administration taking an active role to make sure that the teachers are doing their jobs, that they're effectively conveying their message to students, that they're disciplining students properly, that everything that's going on in the classroom is the way it should.
If you have a club that doesn't go through this process, then you don't have that oversight and you don't have any of that guidance. You don't have the faculty member answering or reporting to their administration. Kell High School's administrators deny all knowledge of the drone club.
There was nothing to oversee because it didn't officially exist as a school club. He's flying a drone over the school at football games to get drone shots for the drone club, which isn't supposed to exist. So the skeptic in me says the school did know there was a club. They just didn't give a crap.
They knew there was a club. They actively participated in the club. They benefited from the club. They allowed the club, but they just didn't feel or didn't care enough to go through the process of properly authenticating it and then properly monitoring it and making sure that students weren't in danger. Was it because Spencer Herron was a department head or trusted faculty member? No one knows.
Mike points out that there's an administrator whose job it is to supervise after-school clubs. The vice principal, Susan Stoddard, it's her job to authenticate clubs and to monitor them. And when she's sitting in her office listening to the PA system and it says, there's a drone club meeting today, or the drone club meeting is canceled, or if you'd like to join the drone club, isn't she saying, what the fuck is this drone club? What is going on? We don't have a drone club. Yeah. Yeah.
Mike gets heated. Think about all those students that had text message conversations through the years with him. Think about all the parents who probably knew, oh, Spencer Heron's so nice. He texts my daughter. He's talking to my daughter. When they go to college, you think those text messages stayed completely appropriate? When Mike mentioned this to me, I felt a pit in my stomach.
It felt too similar to my conversation with Julia. Him and I used to play Words with Friends together, which seemed super innocent. But he would message on the sidebar things like, you should come check out my new house. There wasn't anything that I ever took as him hitting on me until further down the road when the allegations came out.
As an 18 year old, somebody in their 40s saying come check out my new house, you're like, no, lame. I don't care about your house. Like, I want to go out. He was kind of just old and I had no interest in that. But looking back, if I had said, sure, I would love to see your house. There's no doubt in my mind that there was potentially an ulterior motive there.
Why else would he want somebody 18 years old to come check out his new house? Her whole friend group from his class, well, all of them were contacted by Spencer after they graduated. All of those girls, every single one of them, he would message them, you know, let's get coffee, let's get drinks. Her one friend, Nicole, had a boyfriend.
He didn't like it at all. Nicole's boyfriend actually told her to stop texting him because he was like, this is your high school teacher. Why is he asking you to go get drinks? You're 18. We were all like, oh, it's just Coach Erin. All that being said...
Julia was completely blindsided the day he was arrested. I was on the treadmill at the gym and his mugshot popped up on the TV in front of me and I almost fell off of the treadmill. Stopped breathing. I had to stop the treadmill and I was just like in shock. It was terrible. And then my phone was like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. You know, everyone from the class of 2010, all these group messages. Oh my God, did you see this about Coach Aaron? And everyone was in just such disbelief.
You know, he would send these text messages to people potentially trying to meet up. None of my friends ever acted on it, so no one really knew. So we knew it got a little bit weird, but we weren't sure what to believe. Maybe some girl had just potentially taken it too far. You know, no one wanted to believe that he really did that.
I'm really pessimistic about what would have happened if my client reported this without the proof that she had. Would people have believed her? Would they have said, "She's just a slut. She's just somebody that went out and sought out her teacher and slept with him," which is what people said anyway on Facebook boards and messaging. I mean, she had to deal with that. Victim blaming. There was plenty of it. The defendants, the administrators in this case, argued that the victims' claims were barred by the doctrine of comparative negligence.
That's a legal term that means assign blame to two or more parties based on the degree of negligence each contributed to the incident. According to that logic, the student shared in the blame when the teacher sexually assaulted her. When you have a teacher that treats you like an adult, makes you feel special, breaks a rule for you, and expects you to keep that in confidence, you're trusting each other with secrets.
He has to take a risk, and to me that was a small risk that he was taking by saying, "I'll do something bad if you're willing to let me do something bad." That's step one. Now I'm going to do something worse. Are you still okay with that? Now I'm going to do something really bad. Are you okay with that? At that point, it's a recipe for an inappropriate relationship, especially when you add an authority figure with practice. It's an unfair fight. And if the authority figure, especially a teacher, keeps doing bad things,
Why are they bad? Maybe the student doesn't think they're bad because now they've been normalized because now that's just what teachers and students do. After Spencer was charged criminally, it left a lot of students and parents of Kell High School wondering. She was at a developmental stage in her life where you are still growing and learning and she was supposed to be able to trust him. And it's unfair for any of this to fall back on her.
She was only a girl. She was manipulated and he took advantage of a young girl who was vulnerable and believed in somebody that she was supposed to believe in. My parents were so thankful that, you know, it wasn't me, but...
They almost felt a little scared for themselves. It was like, you know, we trusted this man around our daughter, you know, that's scary. And what is also scary is how little information was given to the community itself. As far as I know, there hasn't been any investigative report accessible to the public. There hasn't been any disclosures made. There hasn't been anything.
It's almost like this just didn't happen. And that's really, really scary because it certainly isn't the only time. I was curious about why the victim sued three school administrators instead of the school itself. So in Georgia, you can't sue the school. That's a weird rule we have. You can't sue the school board. I have to sue on behalf of my client administrators. So I have to sue people.
I have to sue the supervisors or the authority in those positions. And I have to prove that those individual people did things wrong. We don't want to sue them. We want to sue the entity because it's the entity that's protecting them. On the legal side, this isn't a dispute about what happened in any sense. Everyone knows what happened, when it happened and why it happened.
The issue is, does the law allow my client to recover, to get justice in the civil justice system? And so far, the answer's been no. Basically, they lost in court. But they are appealing. Lawyers say this all the time about their cases. I'm proud to have represented so-and-so. Win, lose, draw, I don't care. I'm just glad that she knows that someone will stick up for her because that's part of the problem here.
In Georgia, to hold a public servant, which includes teachers, responsible for something in their job capacity, you have to show that there was a rule, a capital R rule. And a capital R rule is a rule that requires no discretion, thought or judgment.
The public servant must follow it. And if they don't follow the rule, then they can be held accountable. And we were able to show that. We were able to show that there was a rule in terms of how these clubs must be authorized and how they must be monitored. We were able to show that that rule existed and that that rule was violated. Here's the problem. What the judge said was, "Even though the rule was violated, it's not a negligent violation of the rule." I'm still trying to figure out exactly what that means.
The way I interpret that is that the rule was violated, but it's not a big deal. So the administrators poorly performed. They didn't do what they were supposed to do, but it doesn't rise to a breach of their duties. I interpret that to mean they're the worst employees in the school, but they still aren't going to get fired, I guess. You know, you have that really poor performer in your office who barely gets by. The court seemed to agree with the school district's argument.
that because some of the sexual conduct occurred outside the school, they couldn't be held accountable. We acknowledge the fact that there were physical acts done outside of school grounds, but every single instance where there was physical sexual conduct at school, I believe, is a separate instance of harm. I'm John Walczak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. I'm John Walczak.
In 2001, police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids. And rigged my house to explode. In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is him and the sniper me out of some trees.
But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years. They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in the cave. Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.
Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house to hunt family annihilation today in A Disappearing Act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.
New from Double Asterisk and iHeart Podcasts, a 10-part true crime podcast series. Emergency 911. This is fire in my apartment life. This car is on fire. In the early morning hours of September 6, 2016, St. Louis rapper and iconic Ferguson activist Darren Seals was found shot dead. Every day Darren would tell her, they are going to try to kill me.
A young man in 2016 was killed on this block. I'm a podcast journalist. And I'm a former state senator, Maria Chappelle Nadal. I was in the movement with Darren, and I've spent two years with co-host Ray Novoshevsky investigating his death. Even if I did want to tell you something, that's a dangerous game to play. The FBI did this to myself. They've been following him for months. That's enough proof right there. All episodes available now.
Listen to After the Uprising Season 2, The Murder of Darren Seals, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, it's Andrea Gunning. The Trail is now releasing episodes every single week. We're bringing you new stories about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything. Every week, we'll share firsthand accounts of broken trust. I was sitting there thinking, what?
Who did I marry? Shocking deceptions. I said, I can't believe what I'm listening to. And the trail of destruction they leave behind. To me now, a rom-com is a horror movie. I couldn't watch that if you paid me. Now you can get access to Betrayal Weekly 100% ad-free and one week early with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription. Available exclusively on Apple Podcasts.
Plus, you'll get access to other chart-topping true crime shows you love, like There and Gone South Street, Creating a Con, The Story of BitCon, Paper Ghosts, Unrestorable, The Girlfriends, and more. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeartTrue Crime Plus, and subscribe today. One thing I couldn't wrap my head around was how to calculate the damage. The law in Georgia is that it's up to the impartial conscience of the jury.
Basically 12 people are going to sit around and figure it out. What do I think that the pain and suffering, the physical violation, the embarrassment for my client who still lives in the community, you know, those damages don't just stop. That's got to be devastating. Her feelings were manipulated and her sense of reality and worth has drastically, drastically deteriorated. And I don't know how anyone could possibly blame her.
And I'll ask a jury to think about the ways that relationship affects a person and that self-worth affects someone and put a value on that. But Mike will only be able to ask the jury if the court grants their appeal. And as it turns out, in an interesting twist, the defendants also appealed on the one point Mike's client prevailed. They are fighting that violating a rule
written in their own policy and procedures and manuals. They're saying, "We don't always have to follow those rules." Imagine if you're a parent in Cobb County and you have the administration saying, "We have these rules, but we're going to go to the Supreme Court of Georgia and say, 'We don't really have to follow them.'" It can't be easy for parents.
Just a few weeks before we spoke with Mike Raffey, a teacher at another Cobb County high school, Osborne High School, was arrested for having sexual intercourse with a student in his office. That teacher is in jail. I wanted us to get together because I was just really curious, what were your thoughts after hearing all of that? My biggest thing is if we don't educate people, students, teachers, administrators, teachers,
If we don't educate them on what signs to look for, then it's going to keep happening over and over and over. There is so much trust put into teachers. Instead of sweeping it under the rug and acting like it didn't happen and just moving on, we need to somehow bring in that education into the schools and make people more aware of what happens and how it happens.
I think that a lot of people have preconceived notions about relationships between high school students and their teachers. They make assumptions. People really don't think about what it's actually like. Your ex-husband, Spencer, he's obviously well-versed in sex and relationships. And this girl, she had no idea what she was doing. Yeah, I think back to when I was in high school. You're at school.
You're with someone that everybody is looking up to and admiring. And then all of a sudden, that person starts making you feel really good. Meanwhile, she's in the halls of Kell High School wanting to scream at the top of her lungs what she's experiencing. She is so alone in this because she can tell nobody. It's so sad that this happens.
We all did research leading up to this interview, and there was one study published by the Department of Education that I think all of us were impacted by. And I kind of want to read it here. It says that 10% of school students will be victims of some form of teacher sexual misconduct that can range from sexual assault to inappropriate comments, exposure to pornography. 10%.
Jen, that's millions of kids. It's insane. I don't think you can just hold one person responsible. I think it's got to be a big effort. What did you think of the lawyer Mike Rafi? I understand that when it comes to lawsuits and all of that, it's very tough. I appreciate what he's doing because he's
What happened here is so much bigger than people realize. I was pretty taken aback that one of the school administrators' offenses was comparative negligence, meaning that the student was partially responsible. For the administration to use that term, think about the victim hearing that and how that feels, that she's supposed to take some of that responsibility on.
That's not fair. And I think that sends an awful, awful message out to the community, to the victim, to everybody else. How dare they try to victim blame and victim blame a child? Earlier in this episode of Betrayal, we heard about the possibility of Spencer being released on parole. Jennifer wrote to Spencer and asked him to let her know what happened at the parole hearing. A few weeks later, he emailed.
I have some disappointing news that I wanted to share with you. I recently received a letter from the parole board stating that my tentative parole month date has been rescinded. The decision was made "due to the welfare of society". This was very disturbing and upsetting, to say the least. The kids are doing okay with the news. Thank God they are so strong.
The parole board does not have to tell anyone anything. And they certainly don't have to tell anyone why an inmate was denied or delayed parole. In the letter, he expressed frustration. He had served 65% of his time. And that's what his lawyer, the judge, and prosecutor agreed on. But he wasn't getting out. And he didn't know the reason. Maybe the truth was too hard for him to consider. Turns out, the sexual assault victim wrote a letter to the parole board and hand-delivered it herself.
She urged the board not to release Spencer, saying that it wouldn't be good for the welfare of society. On the next episode of Betrayal,
A woman explains to Jennifer how one text from Spencer Herron led to a torrid, multi-year affair. I don't even remember what the initial start of the conversation was, but then a comment was made about, well, you're beautiful, something to that extent. And that's kind of where it started. Here's an attractive guy telling me I'm pretty. And I remember feeling like, oh my God, what's happening?
But then at the same time, I didn't do anything to stop it. And the shocking behavior that she shares with Jennifer. There was a very dominating side to him. I remember a couple of times where, you know, he would kind of put his hands around my throat and push down. If you'd like to reach out to the Betrayal team, email us at BetrayalPod at gmail.com. That's BetrayalPod at gmail.com.
Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show was executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Carrie Hartman, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our iHeart team is Allie Perry and Jessica Kreinchick. Special thanks to voice actor Todd Gans, sound editing and mixing done by Matt DeVecchio. Betrayal's theme was composed by Oliver Baines.
Music library provided by MyMusic. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. I'm Robert Fisher.
In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.
In the early morning hours of September 6th, 2016, St. Louis rapper and activist Darren Seals was found murdered. All episodes available now. Listen to After the Uprising, The Murder of Darren Seals on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2009, Mitrice Richardson was released from the Malibu Lost Hills Sheriff's Station, and she never made it home. Nearly a year later, Mitrice's remains were found in a canyon six miles from the station. Her death is Malibu's greatest unsolved mystery. I'm Dana Goodyear. In Lost Hills, Dark Canyon, what happened to Mitrice Richardson? ♪
Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.