Part Two: Louis van Schoor: The Deadliest Security Guard in History
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I don't know if that's like a Stockholm syndrome thing. They are sickos. They are sickos. You're right about that, Molly. Did it bring you joy, Robert? No, nothing does anymore. The only thing that brings me joy is the film Twisters, which I'm still going to talk about. I know I talked about it at the Tuesday opening, but you know what I really appreciate about Twisters, Molly?

And about Twister. Hopefully some of the fans have had time to see it since they listened to the first episode. So now they're on board. You gotta go watch out and see it. You know, you gotta go watch it. They're going to stop making tornado movies if we don't watch them. Right. And then what's going to happen to Oklahoma's tourism? You have to support the tornado based economy.

What I love about these movies is that they all decided, and this is the smart decision from a filmmaking standpoint, the tornadoes had to be sentient. Like, these are tornadoes that have enemies and that have grudges and that are targeting city centers to do as much damage as possible. Wait, I was joking about that. That's real. No, there is a scene where the tornado roars at our main characters and then throws a semi-truck at them. Because they're fighting. Yeah.

They're fighting. These people are trying to destroy tornadoes. Yes, yes, yes. They're going to war against the tornadoes. Wasn't the goal to just learn from... They were tornado scientists. They wanted to learn from it? Yeah, but you've got to escalate. The initial movie, their goal is they want to learn from it so they can predict them so that What's-Her-Name doesn't have her dad sucked out into the sky again. Right, but it was about predicting

for like evacuation. This is about like physically fighting it. Yes, because no one, so one of the through lines and twisters is that no one who lives in Tornado Alley has ever heard of a tornado or knows what to do. None of the houses have shelters and the only people are heroes who are a bunch of like weirdo storm chaser YouTube nerds

Have to like go into towns and warn everyone to evacuate because Oklahomans just don't know about tornadoes. And nobody believes these out of towners.

Well, no, it's always very clear because there's a giant tornado the size of an aircraft carrier in the sky. Does Glenn Powell just like hip check the tornado in his regular jeans? And no, he drives a very cool truck and shoots fireworks into it. So, well, actually, someone else. I forgot the ladies in a regular jeans.

He's wearing. Well, I'd actually I don't think we get a shirt sucked into the tornado. He's very wet a lot of the time, though, so he doesn't get to show off. Yeah. Anyway, I guess should we talk about this racist Molly? I was having more fun talking about a sentient tornado, but I knew that couldn't last. It's less fun than Glenn Powell. I don't think Glenn Powell has killed dozens of people.

You don't know that. Look what we found out about Armie Hammer. But here's what I'll say. If Glenn Powell has been killing people, I'm sure they're an even mix of white, black, every color of the rainbow. And I just feel confident he didn't use dogs. Definitely not. He would never, never stoop to dogs for his killing. He might use dogs. He might use dogs. It's not a 0% chance.

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This election season, the stakes are higher than ever. I think the choice is clear in this election. Join me, Charlemagne Tha God, for We The People, an audio town hall with Vice President Kamala Harris and you, live from Detroit, Michigan, exclusively on iHeartRadio. They'll tackle the tough questions, depressing issues, and the future of our nation. We may not see eye to eye on every issue, but America, we are not going back.

Don't miss this powerful conversation with Vice President Kamala Harris. Tomorrow at 5 p.m. Eastern, 2 p.m. Pacific on the free iHeartRadio app's Hip Hop Beat Station. We're back. I hope Glenn Powell is not a listener because...

We're kind of being needlessly mean to Amanda, as far as I'm aware, hasn't ever done anything bad to anyone. You are. Sorry, I said you were mean with the 3D printer. There's, yeah. I still don't know who he is. Yeah, he's very good looking, Molly. But again, in a way that's kind of off-putting. Yeah. He has to know that, right? I'm sure he knows. Louis Van Shure, not very good looking, in my opinion. Okay.

Now, as I noted last episode, it's a little bit hard to triangulate the precise length of time that Lewis was killing people. But the bulk of his murdering seems to have occurred from around 1986 to 1989. These are the twilight years of the apartheid regime, and the anxious business owners and middle class whites of East London saw Lewis again as a hero. He is their own private Batman, and that is how they look at him.

Most of the businesses that contracted with his company had silent alarms. When someone broke in, Van Shure would be alerted and he would rush to the scene. To surprise the intruder, he always showed up alone in a private vehicle, no sirens. And as was his want, he went barefoot. He later told a reporter, it's quiet. You don't have your shoes squeaking on tiles and stuff. So again, his interest is not to stop robberies or to arrest people. It is to sneak up on them so that he can murder them very, very brutally.

I just don't like the idea that he's not wearing shoes. Yeah, yeah. That's just extra creepy, right? It's like a reverse diehard. Now, he claimed to not turn on lights and that he usually avoided flashlights. He's inconsistent on that last point, so I suspect he did use a flashlight to at least try to shock his targets. But to the press, he would claim that his primary sense for hunting was his sense of smell. Wait, sense for what now?

Hunting? Hunting, yes. That's how he describes this. Great, great, okay. He's just talking openly about when the press coming, like, seems like you're shooting a lot of people. He's like, yeah, I love hunting people. You know, I hunt by sense of smell. If somebody breaks in, the adrenaline gives off an odor and you can pick that up. Okay. I don't know that I think you can, but that's a very unsettling thing to say. That's something a monster says, Lewis. I mean, like,

I mean, I guess, you know, like gamblers, you have a system. You have superstitions. You have these beliefs about your craft. Yeah.

And some people have better senses than others. So I'm not going to say like, it's definitely true that like fear sweat is different, smells different. You can kind of tell sometimes if somebody's like- But you can't smell a guy in the back of the CVS. You're not go, I don't think you're going to, but maybe Lewis is the predator, you know? He is a predator. He spent a long time with dogs, but he did not develop any dog-like skills. The dogs have taught me their skills, yeah. Yeah.

Now, the Adrenalines with Van Shure were mostly conducted at the start of the 90s, before he was charged with any crimes for his many murders. He was a subject of bemusement for a lot of reporters, and their stories helped build him a legend and earn him the love of many in the local white community. The vast majority of his victims were very poor, the kind of people who often broke into stores to steal food or cash.

And as a result, their deaths made very little impact in the local papers. If they were mentioned, it usually wasn't by name. Robber shot breaking into pharmacy or whatever.

White business owners and middle-class residents knew of Lewis, at least by reputation, and overwhelmingly considered him a hero. Black residents also knew him. Stories spread in Zosia of a bearded man, nicknamed Whiskers, who would stalk men through the streets and make them disappear forever. As journalist Dominic Jones, one of the first to report on Lewis, said, Lewis Van Shore was basically going out and murdering people for sport.

Lewis himself would tell the BBC during an investigation decades later, every night is a new adventure, if you want to put it that way. No, I don't. I don't want to put it that way. Not at all. What do you mean? An adventure. And this is going on for long enough that he's becoming this sort of like real life boogeyman in these communities. Of course he is. Yeah.

And I guess they don't know where he's going to be or which alarms go to his phone. No, and you probably because of how it's being reported, some people are probably aware it's all this one guy. But like a lot of locals, both whites and blacks are probably think this is more as a bunch of people committing murders because of how many people he's shooting. You wouldn't naturally assume. Why would you assume? All of these are one guy. It's a lot for one guy. Right.

That's very upsetting. Now, at the time, things had changed enough in South Africa that Lewis had to claim he never went hunting, quote, with the intention of killing black people. He just found stalking human beings- Then don't call it hunting. He does call it hunting a lot.

He says he just found it exciting. And I do think parts of this are true, although not in a way that makes it better. Louis Van Shure to me feels like a guy who would have taken a job that let him hunt and kill humans in any society where that job existed. He's, again, definitely racist. But I think that the killing was more the motivation than the racism. The racism provides the opportunity and the legal cover to do the killing, right? This is my take on it.

Lewis reported every murder to the local police, and when he was criticized for being a serial killer, he would defend himself by saying his actions were, quote, all within the law. This was untrue in a strict textual sense, but it was accurate in that the cops supported what he was doing.

As Lewis said, every officer in East London knew what was going on. All the police officers knew. Not once did anybody say, hey, Lewis, you're on the borderline or you should cool it or whatever. They all knew what was happening. Right. So you're saying like not people didn't know it was all one guy, but like whoever's processing the cops, he's sure the cops definitely know. Yes.

The cops are not are fully aware because they also are showing up at the scene every time you shoot someone, which is all the time. He is always shooting people. There's never a conversation about like, did you do a crime?

I don't think there's an interest in having that conversation. And obviously, as Lewis said, I don't think he's lying about this. I think he like he seems to be legitimately frustrated because he does get in trouble eventually where he's like, look, I talked to the cops. None of them said I was like a borderline. Right. Nobody ever said to stop shooting people. Why am I in trouble? Yeah. Like they should have told me sooner. They needed to tell me the exact amount of people I needed to shoot.

Now, obviously, we shouldn't I don't necessarily think he's lying there, but we shouldn't take his word for it. That said, one of the local journalists didn't stop him. They didn't stop him. One of the local journalists who put together a team to start looking into Lewis was and this is another great South African name, Patrick Goodenough.

Literally just the words good enough stuck together. What was going on in that country that that became a last name for you people? Where does that come from? Right? Yeah, good enough. Oh, because you just know every year a journalism school, whenever he turns in an assignment, you know, his teachers are making fun of that name one way or the other. You know, yeah, this is good enough. Ah, not good enough. Not good enough.

Sorry, Patrick, I'm sure you had a tough road to hoe. You seem to have turned into a fine man because he's going to be one of the heroes of this story. Good enough. He said of the police in East London, the support for him was massive. He would not have been able to get away with a fraction of what he got away with without it. Now, another of the journalists who dug into this story back before it was a story was Issa Jacobson, who I quoted last episode. Here's the BBC discussing her very early efforts to uncover what was going on.

In the police records held in public archives, Ms. Jacobson found instances of killings where the officers had been present at the time of the shootings, at no point did they appear to question Van Schur as a suspect.

In many instances, the police failed to take photos of the deceased at the scenes of the shooting and failed to collect key forensic evidence, such as bullet casings. Van Schur was often the only witness to his shootings, so this evidence could have been crucial for determining what had actually happened in each case. These were cover-ups. He had the backing from police officers from junior rank and senior rank, said Mr. Goodenough. They wouldn't investigate. They'd sit down with him and have a cigarette while chatting with bodies lying nearby.

Yeah, that's not good. Pretty gross, I think. I mean, I guess the cops are doing some of this, too, because he was doing it when he was a cop. Like, just shooting poor people for sport. These cops are murdering black people, too. Yeah, it's just happening. It's just understood. Yeah, he is probably talking shop with a guy who also just killed someone a lot of the time, right?

Right. So it's not like they are too stupid to realize he's shot all of his people in the back on the ground. They know. I don't know how much all of the local like white business owners are aware of the specifics of what Lewis is doing, but the cops are. They don't care. They don't give a shit. No, no, no. Except for, you know, a good number of journalists actually do. Like there is a, it takes a significant journalistic effort. This is actually a case of a murderer who is caught by the press and prosecuted, um,

I mean, I guess once a hundred guys are missing. Funny you say that, Molly. Because by 1989, Lewis has been involved in at least a hundred shootings. Probably a lot more. No, no. He has at least a hundred shootings. And Lewis himself will say, like, I have no idea how many people I shot. There were way too many of them to keep track of. So normally I would say, like, I don't know how many people I've killed is a very bad thing to say. But I think once you...

get into a certain number, it's going to be bad regardless. Probably better that he doesn't know because if he's keeping meticulous records, that's worse. That's worse. I talked to a drone pilot once who was told at like the end of his time of service by his superior, the number of people that had been killed in drone strikes he participated in and it was in the thousands. And he was like, why didn't you tell me? This has just ruined my life. Yeah.

Like there's no amount of therapy that can undo that moment. You should know, right? It actually, it should be traumatic to blow people up with a drone. It's better than it's traumatic, right? It just seems like telling him was a rude thing to do. It is kind of a dick move from your boss though, right? Hey. Hey man, good job. Good job. Wanted to let you know, you've been responsible for the deaths of thousands.

Statistically, about a third of them were innocent, at least. Maybe more like 70% based on a lot of our analyses. Anyway, have a good time as a civilian.

We had the McKinsey intern figure out how many of them were kids. Yeah. Oh, a bunch. Yeah. So by 1989, Lewis had been involved in at least 100 shootings. Now, these numbers are not available to anyone, right? They are all buried in a police filing system that doesn't always name Lewis and was designed to frustrate outside observers, like reporters from the East London Daily Dispatch, where Patrick Goodenough worked. Goodenough. Goodenough.

People are going to be like, no, it's in South African. We pronounce it Gowdenweef, damn it. How do you how can you not know that? But we're not doing that. You're maybe we're absolutely not doing that. I don't care. Disrespecting it on purpose. Is Patrick good enough? And by God, he is. So Patrick got onto the story when he interviewed one of the men who had survived Lewis, a guy named Sia Bunga Tom, which is another excellent name. Yeah, seriously. Yeah.

Now, unfortunately, Siavonga Tom is a child when he is shot. I think he's like 14, something like that. Patrick had also interviewed Lewis, who had bragged. The first time the number comes out is that Patrick is just talking to this guy. He started to think...

might be a serial killer. Because Sia Banga Tom says, like, I wasn't trying to run. He just kind of tried to execute me, right? So Patrick comes across a couple other cases of shootings this guy's involved in, finds out, like, it seems like there's a lot of bodies tied to this guy. So he sits down with Lewis, thinking, like, all right, you know, this is going to be maybe one of the tougher interviews of my life. I've got a man here that I think is a serial murderer. You know, he's probably...

doing some terrible things and getting away with it. And I'm trying to bring him down. He's gonna know that, you know, we're gonna be playing this game of cat and mouse, this real like Hannibal Lecter moment with a murderer. And as soon as the interview starts, Lewis is like, yeah, I shot more than like a hundred people in the last couple of years. It's crazy how many guys I'm shooting. Just very funny.

Oh, the vibes in that room must have been insane. It was like, yeah, I reckon I've shot like a hundred people. I don't know. Can't really count that high. Anyway, what's this article about? That wasn't even part of the interview. He's just making small talk. No, he just likes killing. He likes talking about killing. He's just a big fan of it.

You will not be surprised to hear that this convinced Patrick he was on to a big story. Now, he had nearly finished an article on the shooting, but unfortunately, the article was centered because the first survivor he's talked to is Sia Banga Tom, right? So his article is centered on Tom's experience because Tom also gives him an eyewitness account of

of Lewis breaking the law, right? Him execute, you know, just shooting people, right? The problem is that like all of Lewis's victims, Siyabanga Tom gets charged with breaking and entering. And in South Africa, they have this thing where if someone gets charged, the case is now what they called sub-justice, which meant you're not allowed to report on it until the accused gives a statement in court, right?

Oh. I can see why you would have a rule like this. I can understand how like

Even theoretically, it could develop out of good intentions, right? You don't want yellow press tabloid journalism or whatever affecting how a court case goes, right? So you want – And a lot of countries have pretty strict laws about how the press is allowed to report on crime. Yes. So I do understand why – some of why this may have came into place. But in the case – like you really see the weakness of that here because –

Every time Patrick gets close to being able to report on Lewis actively shooting people, that person will get charged and he can't publish the article.

So it's this kind of maddening state of affairs for him. So furious, Patrick decides that the story he has is not good enough, and he contacts a local legal aid charity called Black Sash to try to get Sia Banga a lawyer. He talked with their coordinator, Charlene Craig, about Lewis, who he'd interviewed, and let her know, hey, there's this white former cop security guard who just told me he shot 100 people? What?

You guys are like dealing with, you know, legal justice issues in our town. Have you looked into this at all? And it turns out that Charlene had. She hands him a copy of a statement that she had taken a month earlier from a local man named Vazumzi. Quote, and this is from the book The Color of Violence.

In it, he said he was on his way home in October 1988 after trying to get work at a bakery when a man in a backie, it's a kind of vehicle, asked him if he wanted a job. He said he climbed into the vehicle and the two drove a short way to the Turnbull Bowling Club, where the man, who said his name was Van Schoor, told him to wait outside the window on the left of the building. According to the statement, Van Schoor then disappeared and returned holding a gun. Without warning, he shot Vazumzi twice, in the chest and in his left arm.

And it's from this statement that we get our most conclusive answer to the overzealous racist security guard or serial killer question. Because that is not a story of a random bigot. That is a story of a man who was hunting and entrapping people and using the imperial. Like, that's a serial killer hunting people. Right. And, you know, maybe racism plays a big role, obviously, in getting away with it. But like. He didn't need to do that.

That's I mean, he didn't need to. He wanted he wanted to shoot this man. He entrapped the man by telling him, I have a job for you. And then he shot him and then he threw his body on a crime scene. But even his like sort of fake justified shootings that he's doing once a week at work, like, is that not enough?

Well, these are what a lot of those shootings are. Those shootings always get marked down as he was responding to a break-in. What's actually happening a lot of the time is he is hunting random black men in the street and throwing their bodies into a crime scene.

Right? Great. Yeah. Like he will fake a break in. There will always be something stolen, but it's usually a low value item. Right? He's also just stealing. He is. I'm sure some of this is him responding to B&Es, but most of this is him fucking hunting people and faking it. Oh, that's.

It's worse. It's much. Yeah, they're both bad. But yeah, I think there's not a good. I think this is the worst version of this story is the one that happened. I'll say that. So he really is just a regular old serial killer. But existing within a system that allowed him to be that way. Yes. Yes. Congratulated him for behaving that way. Yes. Yes. I think that is the most accurate way I can. I can describe this. I don't feel good, Robert.

It's neither too high. But it's time for ads, so that'll be nice. That will soothe my soul. Yeah, our spirits will be lifted immediately. Robert Evans here, and I know everybody loves a great deal, but I also know most of us aren't willing to crawl through a bed of hot coals just to save a couple of bucks.

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This election season, the stakes are higher than ever. I think the choice is clear in this election. Join me, Charlemagne Tha God, for We The People, an audio town hall with Vice President Kamala Harris and you, live from Detroit, Michigan, exclusively on iHeartRadio. They'll tackle the tough questions, depressing issues, and the future of our nation. We may not see eye to eye on every issue, but America, we are not going back.

Don't miss this powerful conversation with Vice President Kamala Harris. Tomorrow at 5 p.m. Eastern, 2 p.m. Pacific on the free iHeartRadio app's Hip Hop Beat Station. It's been 30 years since the horror began. 911, what's your emergency? Someone, he said he was going to kill me. Three decades since our small beach community was terrorized by a serial killer. Maybe, my dear Courtney, we're not done after all.

In the 1990s, the tourist town of Domino Beach became the hunting ground of a monster. No one was safe. No one could stop it. Police spun their wheels. Politicians spun the truth. While fear gripped us tighter with every body that was found. We thought it was over. We thought the murders had ended. But what if we were wrong? Come back to Domino Beach, Courtney. Come home. I'll be waiting for you.

Listen to The Murder Years, Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're... Oh, man. Having a great time. So, this guy, Bazumzi, was, like all the others, charged with breaking and entering. So his case could not be reported on, right? So again...

our boy good enough keeps getting these really important stories. And then as he writes it up and is ready to hand it to an editor, gets the notice that like, oh, this guy's been charged. Can't say shit now, you know, got to wait. So the good news is that Shailene and her colleagues are now on the case as well. And as a legal aid charity, they have none of the same restrictions as the press. They have collected at this point, three other identical accounts nearly from men who had been hunted, shot and

and survived. Right. So this is four cases Shailene brings to him of like, yeah, these guys all said that he literally just grabbed them off the street. Right. That's a strong pattern at this point. That's a pattern. That's, that's a pretty good pattern. I would say. You gotta figure a lot of them don't live. So if you have four guys who lived, he's probably done this a lot. There's a lot of, and also one of the things that starts to come out is there's a lot of families asking like my son or my husband just disappeared. Where are they? And,

And in a lot of cases, the police are just throwing these dead people into unmarked graves and never telling anyone. So, again, we have no idea how many people he actually killed. You know, some of these people do find out like that their son was thrown into an unmarked grave. But the cops are working to cover up a serial killer's murders. Can I ask a stupid question that's also really abhorrent? Yeah.

why does so many of them live? Well, it's because it's a handgun. So this is a, so there's gun stuff. A lot of people don't know handguns or handguns and rifles or rifles, right? Um,

A handgun is a terrible weapon to kill someone with. It's just the most convenient, right? It's easy to have one on you. They are not very powerful. It is extremely common for people to be shot. I have read of cases. There's one particular case of a couple of bank robbers that the FBI ambushed. And the FBI shot one man 50 times and the other like 47 times. And both men not just lived but were walked off the scene.

Like, it's wild how many bullets people can take if they're handgun bullets and survive. Rifles are a bit of a different case. You know, not that...

People don't survive shots from rifles, but it is a very different kind of injury you're looking at. I feel like if I had 40 paper cuts, I might ask to be put on a stretcher, but 40 bullet holes? It's a lot. It's a lot. I mean, you also have to note that like the nine millimeter of the day is a weaker round than the same bullet now because there have been advances in ballistics and like just how we make bullets, right? I just feel like if he's that interested in killing, like...

I don't know. Is it just the I think these guys are grievously injured. I mean, is it the activity that he is interested in? And it doesn't matter to him how it ends. I think he's trying to kill them. But I also think he's probably not like checking for a pulse. A lot of times it's hard. It's not actually if you ever tried to take the pulse of an injury, it's like not always easy. He's not smart. I don't credit him with being a great planner.

I think he's just shilling guys. They lose consciousness because they've been shot repeatedly. And some of them wake up. Some of them don't. You know, that's kind of the deal. So one of the Heidi, the person who wrote that book, makes a big deal about the fact that he used hollow points and how this is like evidence of his murderous intent. I actually disagree with that. Hollow points are just kind of like it's what everyone who carries a handgun in a city is going like anywhere is going to use because they.

They are better at stopping people, but they also penetrate less. So if you are someone like a cop or a security guard and you think you might be shooting at someone in an urban environment, you want a bullet that is less likely to go through them and then hit someone else, right? Like it's just what everyone does. Or damage the merchandise. Or damage the merchandise, yeah.

But anyway, whatever. It doesn't really matter. So Shailene and her colleagues collect like four accounts of guys who have been hunted and shot and survived. And they reach out to a legal aid lawyer, Dave Pittman, who suggests getting victim statements so that they can file for criminal charges. And I'm going to quote next from Heidi Holland's The Color of Murder.

And this is her talking to Pittman. I drove to East London where I was joined by Charlene Craig, recalls Pittman. Accompanied by a relative of Siabongo, we went directly to Frere Hospital where we found the victim with a bullet wound running from his abdomen clear through his back.

A telling piece of evidence collected from the custody of the hospital was the clothing he had been wearing when he was shot, notably a synthetic fiber tracksuit. The tracksuit top had a gaping hole in front, with indications that the fiber had been burned in the vicinity of the hole, which would prove Sia Banga's allegation that he had been shot at point-blank range. Armed with Sia Banga's statement and his clothes in a plastic bag, we drove jauntily to the Fleet Street Police Station.

I don't know why we needed to know how jauntily that you drove. We were just having a good time. But Heidi knows these kinds of details are important to really make a story come alive. I feel like I'm there. Yeah. Now, no sooner had they taken a statement from Sia Banga than there was another shooting in East London. Police noted a security guard had been involved but refused to name him. Obviously, at this point, everyone involved in this case, the journalists and Black Sash, were like, well, it must have been Lewis, right? Yeah.

Probably was the guy who shoots someone every day. We all know it's the shooting guy. It's the guy who only shoots people. It's the human hunter. Yeah. Now, the victim in this shooting was Montuzima Titi, 24, a night watchman. So a security guard himself who had been walking home from a late shift when a white stranger ran up to him in the night, shot him and tossed him in the back of his car. When he woke up in the hospital, police charged him with breaking and entering.

That sucks. Such a nightmare. That fucking sucks. It's just a horrible, horrible situation. Also, how much blood is getting into his car? You're literally a security guard. How much blood is in this man's car if he's routinely putting shooting victims in his car? I think he's got like a flatbed and he's just kind of throwing them in there and then hosing it off. Just hosing it out. That's the way I do it. That's the way I've done it. I mean, Wood haven't killed anyone in my truck. Molly...

What do you drive? You're not giving out that kind of personal information to your hordes of deranged fans. Yeah, Robert, what? One of them could be like this guy, yeah. You were just complaining about people texting you instead of messaging you on Signal and you're like, hey, Molly, what kind of car do you drive? What kind of car do you drive? Who do you think you are? I just want to know. Is it a good one?

My last car got totaled while I was covering. It was a post J6, like, you know, free the insurrection boys rally. My car got totaled. I was parked. You know, there was a police chase in D.C. and. Oh, man. And they totaled my parked car anyway. But before that. So now I have a car that has no giant key scrapes on it, Robert. And that is very precious to me because my last car got keyed up by some sort of neoconfederate weirdo. Oh, pissed on my great grandfather's grave.

So no, I'm not telling you what I drive. Very specific. It's very specific. I have a car with no bloodstains in the bed, you know? Congrats. I don't think there's any blood in my car. Actually, there's kind of a lot of blood in the back of my car. Anyway, whatever. It's roadkill. It's fine. Why did you put it in the car?

Because it's a truck. Where else do you put your roadkill? Is this because you read too much about RFK? I'm not going to put it in the cab. You read too much about RFK and now you're interested. I like good, I like fresh roadkill, Molly. I would not feed it to a hawk. I feed it to people.

All right. Can we move on? Anyway, you're being a little weird now, Robert. Patrick Goodenough by what? So there's a lot of blood in the car. Okay. There's a lot of, probably a lot of blood in his car, but there's a lot of normal reasons why there might be. Yeah, sure. Of course. Well, no, he's, he's just abducting security guards and throwing them in the bed of his truck. He's just a serial killer. Yeah. He's, he's, he's just a serial killer. By this point, Patrick Goodenough had tied Lewis to five fatal shoe shootings, which was good, but not good enough. Um,

He had also found seven wounded victims. In June of 1989, Pittman had enough to file attempted murder and civil damages against Lewis. This gave good enough public victim damage statements that he could use in his reporting, right? At this point, the victims have put out a public damage statement so he can, like, theoretically write an article. So they're filing a civil suit. So they're not –

Yeah, there's filing criminal charges and a civil suit. His attitude is we should charge this guy with murder and like is with everything we can. We need to get him off the street. Right. That's what Pittman is trying to do. Right. He wants to stop the guy, this guy from being able to shoot people. I didn't realize I got to agree to this.

Well, he files the charges, right? I guess they just have a different system because you can't do that here. Yeah. I mean, I don't know the South African apartheid era. I don't know how that worked, right? I'm just reading what the reporting on it said. Right, right, right. But Pittman has these public victim damage statements, which now theoretically Patrick Goodenough can report on. But when he gets an article together, his editor – they have an editorial meeting that –

good enough isn't allowed in, but it's like very frantic. He can see people arguing and yelling. And then his editor says, no, you can't publish anything.

So Patrick puts together a stripped down version of the article, one in which he does not name any names, but just notes that charges have been brought against a security guard who was shooting a lot of local people. This too is refused from publication. During a phone call with Lewis, the killer boasted to the journalist, I'm in full production, full production. Basically, I'm still working. Nothing about this has hurt me yet. Um,

Okay. And so as all of this kind of like start keeps winding its way through the courts, there's very little interest in the story when a week later, Van Shure attends an inquest for a shooting the year before in June of 1988. Okay.

So we're getting an inquest. Yes, he is occasionally involved in inquests. And in this particular shooting, he had arrived on scene to the site of a wimpy bar, which is a chain of restaurants, I think. And this one is by the beach. And a 13 year old and a 15 year old have broken into it searching for cash.

Lewis had arrived and both kids had fled, terrified from the bearded demon now hunting them. Lewis caught the boys hiding in a bathroom, unable to run away. He opened fire, hitting the two kids seven times and killing one of them. I think he killed the 13-year-old.

This is what really lights a fire under Patrick's ass, 'cause he's like, "This guy's murdered children." And he confirms, he starts doing police, he goes physically on site and combs through records of every police shooting for the last couple of years. And he's able to confirm that Lewis has been on the site of more than 270 silent alarm calls in recent years.

That's too many.

Kukile Nekso, shot in the head and stomach. By the time he was done on his first day, Patrick had confirmed 22 murders committed by Louis Van Schoor.

The cases all had chilling similarities. At each break-in, a single low-value item had been removed. Van Schoor was never questioned in court, just asked to submit statements that he had crafted to comply with the letter of the law. He always asserted he'd shouted a warning and claimed that he had fired in the direction of the suspects rather than at them.

This was thin stuff to defend a man who had shot so many people. But South African judges had the right to close an inquest if they concluded there were no live witnesses who could provide added context. And since Lewis was usually... But that's a great way to get out of court. It's a real hole, yeah. You make sure there's no one else. I mean, murder can never really be prosecuted as long as you kill everybody who's there. Mm-hmm.

Well, we got all the context. The guy who did the murder told us everything. So there's really nothing else to gain by a trial, you know, or by a court case. Cool. Good system. As it became clear, one of the modern era's most prolific serial killers lived in their town. The Black Sash and Good Enough's reporters were inundated suddenly with information. Heidi Holland writes, a massive dossier began to grow against the man whose callous exploits read like a scene from a Dirty Harry script. She really likes comparing this to Dirty Harry. I don't think it's very similar.

I don't think he could do it more than once or twice. No, because also Dirty Harry specifically doesn't shoot people running away. Oh, well, I guess he probably does. I need to rewatch that movie to say that. I've never seen a movie. Oh, it's been a long time. Maybe he does shoot some people in the back. I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

Anyway, I'm gonna continue that quote. "He ran across roofs, entered dark buildings alone and unafraid with his gun clasped in both hands, arrogantly admitting in court documents that he fired seven, eight, or even 10 shots at a time.

To everyone's surprise, Van Shure himself contributed to the dragnet that was closing in around him after he heard on the radio that investigators believed he had killed at least 34 people. At around midnight one night, three days after shooting his latest and last victim dead, Lewis telephoned Dominique Jones, one of the reporters, to set the record straight. Number 39, pal, was all he said.

No. Again, he's not a bright man. That's something that happens on like, I don't know, like season 17 of a police procedural. But he's just calling jurors and being like, shot another guy today. Number 39. Feeling fine.

Heidi describes Lewis in this last period of impunity as the human avatar of the apartheid government, exuding a calm, macho air of competence and utterly certain violence meant to calm the white populace and frighten black South Africans away from white society. He's a human wall.

In the last months of his long killing spree, Lewis shot a person almost every week, and he killed one person almost every three weeks. But then in November of 1989, the fever pitch of media attention and protests prompted the local attorney general to order an inquiry. This was one of the most significant criminal prosecutions of the late apartheid era, a sign that the consensus around this evil system had frayed irreparably.

In 1990, Nelson Mandela was released from prison. Lewis and his security firm recognized that the wind had shifted, and so did the local cops. In 1991, Lewis was finally arrested and charged. The final credible tally of his kills was 39 dead and dozens more injured. We will never have any clear idea of how many people this guy shot. But he kills at least 39, which puts him up there. That is top 1% of serial killers, right? That is...

A lot. And at a kind of incredible pace. Yeah. Like, especially for three. Like, if you hear if you hear a serial killer, it's like 20 people in 30 years. You're like, wow, that's one of the one of the big ones, you know. But Lewis is just cranking him out. He's yeah, he is. He's really a he's a workman like serial killer. You know, he's just putting in the hours, Molly. It's all about putting in the hours. Anyway, here's ads.

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Yeah.

But she's just a worker bee. I actually confront the real shoplifting queen herself. Just wanted to see if you'd be interested in talking to me about charges and stuff. No, I have no comment. A mother of three orchestrating all her crimes from a secluded hilltop mansion. We're walking around the perimeter of the house now.

I hear the cops. Dude, I think we should go. Let's roll. We're running from the cops. Listen to Queen of the Con Season 6, The California Girls, on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Gosh, if I was one of those California girls, I'd be sweating. I'd be sweating.

Sabrina, his daughter, was just 12 years old. And I'm not a serial killer, Mom. It's alarming that this man has children. I just wanted to make that clear. I forgot about Sabrina. Yeah, it's alarming he has a daughter. I do not like that part. Oh, you're really not going to like where her story goes. Oh, good. Throughout all of this, he has little contact with her, right? Sabrina's been with her mom. He has very little contact with her. Yes. That's for the best. You would think so. Oh, no.

So she's 12 years old in August of 1991 when she learns via radio broadcast that her father was accused of being one of the most prolific murderers in the country. She described herself as feeling almost dead because, quote, I worshipped my father. I was very, very upset. Well, yeah, obviously. Lewis had not been super present, but also her mother and her brothers, they seemed like they were assholes. Like, I think her whole family kind of sucked ass. Sabrina's really the only one who maybe doesn't.

Her mom didn't kill like 80 guys. No, she sure didn't. But she kind of likes him more because her mom is the one that's around all the time. And Louis shows up occasionally for like special visits, right? Sometimes- Right, like when you're 12, like your mom grounds you as a bitch who sucks. And like your dad who shows up and takes you to the movies is cool. I get it. She doesn't want-

Sabrina to see her dad at all. And sometimes he'll set up like secret visits. Like would she, Sabrina staying with a friend, he'll come over to sit, to hang out with her, which is really weird. Yeah. Yeah.

Now, Sabrina had against her again, against her mother's wishes, started reconnecting with her dad in like the months or the year or so before he got arrested. She'd even started dressing like him and going barefoot to mimic his fashion sense. Her mother seems mostly to have wanted to try to keep her away from the topic. But the case quickly made her dad famous. She remembers the night that they found out about this. A cop friend of the family drops by and tells her her dad is a superhero.

Oh, he's a serial killer. We are talking white people in apartheid South Africa. These are not...

A lot of thin on the ground, nice folks. I don't mean to be melodramatic, but I felt bile rise in my chest when you said that. Oh, yeah. Us yucky. There is a massive level of popular support for Lewis during his trial from the white populace of East London. The BBC reports, quote, one entrepreneurial businessman printed bumper stickers with pictures of the security guard. They said, I love Lewis next to a heart full of bullet holes.

The second half of that sentence was so much worse. There's like, sometimes there's society. I'm going to get in trouble. Um,

Since the trial occurred in the dying days of the apartheid regime, the justice system still favored a man like Lewis. He was ultimately charged with 39 murders, but only convicted of seven. The other 32 killings were listed as justifiable homicides. Yeah, he should have been. Seven should be enough, though, to put you away forever. Right. Like seven murders. It is right. No, that should be a long sentence. We're not going to get one. Lewis was convicted.

He was sentenced to something like 90 years, but he was allowed to serve them all concurrently, which means he was guaranteed, pretty much guaranteed less than 20 years behind bars with good behavior. And he is a great prisoner. All the guards loved him, loved him. Super popular with the white prison guards.

Relatives of his victims were furious, and the case made it clear how much work the police had put into keeping Lewis free. The dead that Goodenough were able to uncover was just a fraction of the total, which we will never know. Many black families in East London never recovered the bodies of their family members. Marlene Mvumbi's brother Edward was killed by Van Schoor in 1987. His body was thrown into an unmarked grave, and the family was left unnotified.

For Sabrina, her father's disgrace was a constant confusing through line in her adolescence. In high school, she read an article about her dad and realized how little she understood him. She decided to write or she had a school project to do an article to like write about an evil man and like what made them evil. And she's like, well, I'll write an article about my dad.

And she gets a bunch of news clippings from the librarian about her father, but she decides not to write the piece because as she starts writing it, she can't not write defensively about her father. And she notes, most of my friends were blacks and coloreds by then, and I thought it would look like I was praising him. So she writes about Hitler instead. Oh,

Oh, good. I was gonna write about my dad, but I went with Hitler. Yeah, it's a lot easier to just write about Hitler. Jesus, you're doing great, sweetie. You're doing great, honey. At some point, this eighth grade English teacher should have said, you know what? I'm gonna give you an A, and I'm gonna send you to the guidance counselor. I'm just gonna give you an A here. You don't have to write an article about your dad. You don't have to do that. I'm very sorry that happened to you. In fact, please don't.

You know who never writes articles about their fathers?

Sponsors of this podcast. You don't need to do another ad break. Oh, wait, did we already do two ads? Jesus. Sometimes I just in the zone, Sophie. I just can't stop plugging. You just love products and services so much. I just can't stop plugging. Just a shell for capitalism. I love it. You just love Chumba Casino so much. Sometimes when I go to bed, every time when I go to bed, the only thing with me is Chumba Casino. You know, it's, it's, it's my lover, my friend, my comfort. When I, I,

Well, I heard Toyotas have amazing resale value. Wait, is that, is Toyota doing ads? Because if that's the case, I, what are we doing here, Sophie? Get me on the horn with the Toyota guys. I want to, I want to tell them to bring the Hilux to the US. You know, do we, do we have juice with Toyota now? Do we have suction? I suggest you to the ad people for Toyota. That's never going to happen. They're on your show. They're on your show. Well, that's great.

Every month. I'm like, Robert would love to do an ad for Toyota or T-Mobile. And they're like, great. Good to know. The problem is the Toyota people don't want the kinds of ads that I would do, which is the kinds of ads that will sell Toyotas. Right. Because there's no. They're cowards. They're just cowards.

No car that has been used as successfully in as many insurgent conflicts and outright conventional wars in the world as the Toyota Hilux. You know, Toyota reliability is what you want to put underneath. We didn't need an ad plug. Get back to the script. I'm surprised they didn't have a Hilux and twisters.

I mean, if you're going to shoot a tornado. They definitely are getting paid by Dodge. Like, don't you need a Hilux? Don't you need to make a technical to fight a tornado? No. Here's why I think it's realistic that they were all Rams and Twister, because the Dodge Ram is the official truck of people with 17 DUIs. And every character in Twisters has numerous DUIs. Like, these guys are Oklahoma storm chasers. Not one of them has ever gotten behind the wheel sober. And that is-

why would you? Appropriate for a Dodge Ram. Yeah. Wow. It's not safe to drive a Dodge Ram sober, you know? You'll flip it. So, back to the story. Yeah. Of course. Um,

Sabrina insists that her mother and most of the rest of her close family were very racist. And I don't think she has to go to extreme measures to convince me of this. That sounds true to me. She claims to have turned out differently because some of her earliest memories were of the maid that her wealthy mother hired to raise her. The maid was a black woman and Sabrina often called her motherless.

mom. And she's like, well, I grew up with this black lady basically raising me because my mom was busy all the time and just became very aware of how racist everyone in my family was. As a teenager, she becomes pregnant and it is with a child that is going to be mixed race, which is a real big deal in South Africa at the time. Especially if your dad is the racism murderer? Well, here's the thing. Her mom is furious. She claims that her dad

who is by behind bars at this point,

like calls her mom and is like, be nicer to her about this. So she says her dad actually was always very supportive of her having a mixed race baby. Once again, I once again misjudged the serial killer. He's not bad about this. Her mom is apparently though. Robert, she claims that a black friend of hers was the only person who listened to her and didn't judge her and like helped her decide, you know, to keep the kid, which she does.

Now, over time, her mother's racism began to grate more and more on her, although it may have just been how controlling Beverly was. Sabrina was kind of the black sheep of the family. Her mother is this rich workaholic. Her half-brothers take over a security firm that her mother started, and they get rich. They shouldn't be allowed to work in that business. None of this family should be doing security. I just—

I know they're not guilty of this. They're not involved. I just, we just shouldn't allow it. She claims they brag about being affiliated with Lewis before he gets convicted. So I think they do suck ass. Yeah. Now, Sabrina, you know, again, kind of the black sheep and claims she was basically a prisoner in her mother's home. Eventually, she reached out to the father of her child who introduced her to a man named Gino who promised that he had a solution to her issues. Murder. Is it a gun?

No, it's a much more brutal murder than that. Now, there are two versions of this story. Maybe both have some truth. One is that Sabrina wanted to stage a murder that looked random, like a robbery gone wrong, so she could take her inheritance and be free. The other is that she was just so disgusted by her mom's racism that she felt her mother had to die. I don't find that last one entirely credible. It's very poetic. It's poetic. But I don't think that's right. Yeah.

Maybe. Maybe. I mean, I'm sure that's maybe something that she tells herself as part of this justification, part of this working up to it. But it's mostly because, like, your mom's being kind of a bitch. Your mom's kind of a bitch and you want her money, right? Probably. Yeah. And it's weird. I also think maybe she's not super well because there's interviews where she claims, like, on the last day of her mom's life, she wanted to give her a nice goodbye and tell her she loved her and thank her for raising her. She's not putting the dog down. Yeah.

Take her to get some chicken nuggets. You're having a man slash her throat. What is going on here? Take her to her favorite park one last time. You want to go on a walk, mom? Don't mind the guy looming in the corner. Yeah, it's a...

Anyway, she also claimed that like Gino threatened to like kill her and her brother if they didn't do the killing after a while. And anyway, I don't know. A lot of shady stuff here. I don't know how much I believe of these claims, but Sabrina did have her mother murdered. She hired a man to slit her throat and then came upon the body and called the authorities. The whole thing was found out almost immediately. Sabrina was sent to trial where she was not consistent.

claiming at times that her mother had loved her mixed-race granddaughter and apologizing for what had happened.

Still, she also became something of a rallying point for many of the black East Londoners who'd spent years terrified of her father. From the BBC, at her trial in June 2002, Sabrina's admirers, the same South Africans who had lived in fear of her father, crowded into the public gallery to commend her for striking a blow against racism by murdering her mother. Her lawyer, a black man, compared Sabrina's need to free herself from her mother's oppression to the plight of South Africa's freedom fighters under apartheid. Which...

I don't even really know what to say about that. There's a lot going on. Just like a lot of psychology going on here. There's a lot going on here. You're really feeling that rubber band effect of trauma from the apartheid years in this case. Has she had the baby or is she just like very pregnant? She has. I think she's had the kid by this point because she's separate. She misses out on the kid's childhood, you know, but maybe I don't know. I just can't imagine a more like.

It's so visible symbol, right? That like this, this man who was using apartheid to murder. She has this mixed race child. And then he was like a chill grandpa. Yeah. He is kind of a chill. Well, not quite. Zero killer grandpa. Yeah. It's just a lot going on for poor Sabrina. I just, I don't know that I falter for it. No, no, I don't. I can't really blame her too much.

And they didn't have like forensic files back then. So she didn't know that murder for hire never works. It never works. As much as we love hit men in movies, no one has ever successfully gotten paid for a murder. It just doesn't happen. The only people involved in that industry are FBI agents and the mentally unsound. That's just it. That's the whole business. Yeah.

Now, Lewis publicly, because there's a lot of articles interview him when his daughter goes to trial. It's a huge, famous trial. And Lewis is very publicly accepting of his granddaughter and Sabrina, I think for self-serving reasons. For one thing, he's about to go up for parole, right? And so he wants to make it clear, I'm not a racist. I shout out to black guys, but I'm not a racist. That's a lie to me.

- Sounds like a lie to me. - Yeah, he also, he kept being like, "If you let me out early, I'll be able to raise my granddaughter while my daughter's locked up." - You shouldn't be allowed near the child. - No. - You shouldn't be raising a kid? What are you talking about? - A judge should write up something special that says you can't do that. - You are not allowed to be anywhere close to children. In fact, when he was brought into court as a character witness to try to help mitigate his daughter's guilt, he just spent all of the time defending himself and arguing for his parole.

I'm not a lawyer. This isn't legal advice. But if you ever need a character witness for a criminal proceeding, don't invite a serial killer. I would say here's my legal advice, free legal advice for all you listeners out there. If you need a character witness for a court case, pick a guy who shot less than 100 people.

You know, I'm not going to say never pick a guy who shot anyone, but certainly not 100 people. That's the number, you know? I mean, I guess he does have sort of a unique lived experience when it comes to being a bad person. So he does have some perspective on that. I will say as a journalist, if I were just looking for like critiques on shooting a guy in the dark, I would certainly call Lewis, right? He seems to have been an expert at shooting people in the dark in the back. Probably would be great.

at that job. I don't know. I don't think that's a job. Anyway, him being a character witness does not work. She goes to prison. She's going to be there for like 13 years. Lewis does 12 years behind bars. So almost as long as him. Yeah, a little longer.

Oh, longer. Lewis only does 12. That math really adds up. Yeah. That's really chill and cool. Lewis does 12. And when he gets out, he'd been telling reporters as he was trying to get early release, I've got to raise my granddaughter. I want to be there for her. He immediately moves to a different city and he doesn't even tell his daughter. Does not adopt the granddaughter. Thank God. None of it. Gets married right away. That's fine. That's fine. Gets what? Gets married again.

To a human woman? Yeah, some lady. And then he gets a job on a farm funded by a state project to provide poor black people with land and support for operating agricultural businesses. I have to go. South Africa, baby!

Apartheid's gone, but we're still fucked as hell. Oh, so apartheid ended while he was in jail. Yeah, 94. Right, I just lost track of our years. So he comes out into a different world. Very different world, but he gets right to work scamming the government. So I will say, I found an article, some of the people who worked on that farm said he was a really good member of the team. He was very good at teaching people. He was good at scaring off thieves.

But the person who makes all of these claims in this article, because he gets forced out when there's news stories that are like, it's kind of fucked up. This guy's getting money meant for poor black people to encourage them to farm after he murdered all those folks.

The person who makes these claims that like actually he was great and it's really bad that he had to leave is Patricia Nugumbelanga, who owned most of the farm and intersperses her claims about how good Lewis was with anger at the fact that the government has not sent any more subsidies.

And Nugubalanga also faces criminal charges herself from a local security guard who accused her of beating him badly after he broke into a building on the farm. So I don't know how to parse this. I don't know if Lewis was a good worker or not, or if there's something weird about this lady. But the fact that he is on this farm causes an outroar when it gets published. Right. He is forced from the property.

For the rest of his life, Lewis would be visited on occasion by reporters. He claimed at the end of his days to be, quote, happy and content, and that 90% of the people who recognized him on the street supported what he'd done. But he also expressed disgust at the new South Africa. Everything has changed. People's attitudes, the service and shops. It's not the same.

Yeah, I bet. Yes. The only good news I can give you is that by July of 2024, Father Time caught up with the old bastard and did to him what the justice system wouldn't. A BBC reporter who visited him before his death noted that he had lost all his teeth and had both his legs amputated after a heart attack.

In true Lewis fashion, he accepted only the most brutal form of surgery. Per the BBC, when the surgeon carried out this procedure, Fanshawe requested an epidural instead of a general anesthetic so he could watch them remove his legs. He's such a sicko. He's such a fucking sicko. You know what, Shine On, you crazy diamond? It's good to know who you are, right? That's not an option. I can't even. I guess it's an option.

Yeah, it's very funny because he immediately- I don't think the human mind can survive hearing your femur sawed through. The BBC article is super funny because it quotes him saying, I was curious. I saw them cutting. They sawed through the bone. And speaking to the BBC World Service, Fan sure wanted to persuade us that he is not the monster that people say I am. No, that doesn't happen. No. That's not going to do it, man. No, it's not.

You didn't have to tell anyone that part of the story. Why didn't the doctor say no? Oh, man. Anyway, Lewis dies July 25th, 2024. He just died due to complications from sepsis in his legs. That's like a week ago. Yeah. Yeah. Very, very recently. You saw an obituary and you said, that's my mom. Hell yeah. Who is this motherfucker?

One relative of a victim told the BBC he got off easy, which I agree with. Sabrina, on the other hand, served out her time. She was noted by black inmates who served alongside her as being different from most of the other incarcerated whites. So it does at least seem like the not being a racist stuff was legitimate. Although she was sentenced to 25 years for the murder of her mom, like her dad, she was released after 12 years or so of good behavior. And I wish her the best. Good luck, Sabrina.

And what happened to her child? I don't know. Wow. I'm going to guess, honestly, with this family, no good news is good news, right? Yeah. Just send them just foster care at this point. That's never a good option. It's never better than a family placement. But I think maybe in this case. Yeah. When your dad's when your dad's. Yeah. The murder guy. Yeah. Anyway, I didn't I didn't like that. That was bad. Yeah.

I mean, I thought it was going to be pretty bad when you told us that people were setting dogs' heads on fire. Yeah, yeah. But I actually long for more of that now. Every time... When you're doing an apartheid South Africa story, it's basically always going to be the bleakest shit you've ever heard in your life. So that's good. Well...

Thanks. No good South Africans. Molly, you got any pluggables to plug? Oh my gosh, what do I have to plug? Oh, they're letting me make a podcast now, Robert. Oh, good. Really? Wait, who's doing that? Somebody very foolish.

Weird Little Guys, by the time this comes out, will be out. One, maybe two episodes, you'll be able to go and listen to them. You're going to love them. It's very uplifting, kind of like this show. Just a lot of guys just doing normal stuff that's not upsetting. Yay. It's me. Hi. I'm them. I'm the problem. It's me. More horrible stories for your ear holes.

No, I really do think people are going to like it. Yeah. Excellent. Excellent. I do too, Molly. I really do. It's very, it's amazing. And it's just, it's like a little creepy crawly night, night, bedtime horror story. And you're in, and it's amazing.

Yeah. Some people have asked like, oh, is it like behind the bastards where there's like a guest? And I think we ultimately decided that sort of a spooky bedtime story vibe was a little bit better. So it's just me telling you a story about something terrible. Yeah. But like in a fun way. And I assume you will probably also tell them less about the film Twisters.

Oh my God. You know, I think by the time I record the second episode, I will have seen Twisters. So maybe I can work that in somehow. If you really want to be prepped for the podcasting game like I am, Molly, you got to watch Twisters and then you need to go back and watch the OJ Simpson show where Ross from Friends plays Robert Kardashian. Oh my God. Let it go. He calls him juice all the time. Oh, it's so funny. Oh, Ross from Friends. Always a good time. Oh, that's a great show too. Veep is great. No Ross from Friends though, but that's probably for the best. Oh, no Ross from Friends.

I wish I had my own Gary from Veep in my life. In the form of a dog who could talk.

I almost said Ross from Friends doesn't have like Armando Iannucci vibes, but actually he could have been in the death of Stalin. All right. You could have cast Ross from Friends as some like fading elderly Soviet bureaucrat. Yeah, he could do it. He could do it. I think I would like to leave now. Okay. Podcast is over. Be well. I love you all. Bye. Bye.

Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast is supported by BetterHelp, offering licensed therapists you can connect with via video, phone, or chat. Here's BetterHelp head of clinical operations, Hesu Jo, discussing who can benefit from therapy. I think a

A lot of people think that you're supposed to be going to therapy once you're like having panic attacks every day. But before you get to that point, I think once you start even noticing that you feel a little bit off and you can't maintain this harmony that you once had in relationships, that could be a sign that maybe you want to go talk to somebody.

There's always a benefit in talking to someone because we can all benefit from improved insight about ourselves and who we are and how we behave with other people. So if you're human, that's like a good indicator that you could benefit from talking to somebody. Find out if therapy is right for you. Visit BetterHelp.com today.

That's BetterHELP.com. This election season, the stakes are higher than ever. I think the choice is clear in this election. Join me, Charlemagne Tha God, for We The People, an audio town hall with Vice President Kamala Harris and you, live from Detroit, Michigan, exclusively on iHeartRadio. They'll tackle the tough questions, depressing issues, and the future of our nation. We may not see eye to eye on every issue, but America, we are not going back.

Don't miss this powerful conversation with Vice President Kamala Harris. Tomorrow at 5 p.m. Eastern, 2 p.m. Pacific on the free iHeartRadio app's Hip Hop Beat Station. It's been 30 years since the horror began. 911, what's your emergency? He said he was going to kill me. In the 1990s, the tourist town of Domino Beach became the hunting ground of a monster. We thought the murders had ended.

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