Without a Paddle Reunion
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Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Rather. I'm joined by Miniature Mouse. Hi there. And we have a very special episode today. We do. I've been teasing that this was coming out, but it was the 20-year anniversary of the release of Without a Paddle on August 20th. I had hoped we could time it perfectly, but Matthew was in Toronto filming the sequel to a very successful movie. He's a big boy. In which he plays Voldemort. Okay.

Which you'll hear about in the fact. Yes, which is not maybe he doesn't play Voldemort. But yes, so Seth Green. We love Seth Green, Matthew Lillard, myself. And we got to just go down memory lane for two hours. And it was so fun. And also, I'm going to add to further confuse everybody. This is a Monday episode. Yeah. And it's video.

And I know that's not how we're going to do it. But I thought if ever there was one that would be fun to have on video, this would be the one. And why not? It's also our first episode of The New Deal. Welcome to our new deal. Welcome. Welcome to. Welcome. Hello. It's Bob. So, yeah, please enjoy Seth Green and Matthew Lillard. Without a paddle reunion. Without a paddle reunion. WAP reunion. Uh-oh. WAP. Uh-oh. That's.

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Yeah. People didn't like that. People are complicated, guys. Real hard to be a people. It is so hard to be a people. Especially over distance. Like, it's one of the things that I love about both of you guys. And I'd like to say I saw it coming was that we're all like...

like this is what we do. It's a career. It's not just like I got to make this movie. I like being included in that, but in reality, especially for this movie, that was true for you guys. You guys were like a decade into acting professionally. That specific movie, I really realized as it was happening that it was such a significant moment for each of us, that it was going to be incredibly important for

for each of us for it to work. I was mostly just scared. Scared? I think the funny thing is that what we tell ourselves past an experience is so powerful. Because I saw a dude...

who was explosive, funny, charming, all the time taking risks, zero fear. As my coping mechanism of, oh my God, I don't belong here. I'm not certain what I'm supposed to do. They're all looking over there. I guess when we switch to that camera, we all move this way. And like a little panic inside that I'll be exposed as not deserving to be there.

And a chip on my shoulder about coming from punk. Sure. And having loved both of you and wanting you guys to think I deserve to be there. It was complicated. It was a complicated moment for you. And then I think I'm like overly... Charming? No.

- No, but like fearless. - Here's what I can do. I'm afraid about the acting, but I can jump off the waterfall. Like please, Brill, let me do that. That'll prove. - It is funny what we tell ourselves versus what anyone else is even thinking. You were so there on purpose and I, who had already met you at Groundlings, and then I got punked by you. - You wanna walk through the scenario of what you guys did to him? - Yes.

Right, which I didn't know existed. I had spent like years hanging out with the cast of the 70s show because Wilmer and I had done Party Monster together and I just knew all those kids through the business. We'd all go hang out at the taping of the 70s show and then sometimes go out for drinks afterwards because it was a very...

pre-cell phone camera time. It was an entirely different place where you could actually just go out as a gang of highly recognizable people. So, Wilmer's like, oh, hey, you should come to, I'm doing a charity. You have a,

Just come after the taping. It's going to be great. And I was like, I don't know. I'm tired. And he was like, no, do it. And so I go and it was at the Sunset Tower. And I had just been in this room six days prior for a table read. And so I had been in this exact same room where all of the lights are incredibly bright. And I was like, oh, they remodeled this room.

Because a bunch of mirrored extensions were built in front of closets. Wow, they redid this place and they were like, let's put a ton of mirrors in here. Well, I just didn't think about it. You would never imagine that there's like a hidden camera. All the lights were on. There's no music playing. And they're like, do you want a drink? And I was like, I'll get a drink. But this is a terrible park.

I was about to tell you this party, it sucks. And I started walking around. I was like, maybe dim the lights. This says a lot about you. And I think it's lovely, which is like you got into this situation and there's a ton of other actors there and everyone's acting like they're gambling and stuff. And he is immediately like, I don't like the lighting. I'm changing the lighting in this room. Yeah.

And everyone in the camera department was like, oh my God, shit. Go up to F4. You know, like they're changing exposures and everything. And he has no problem walking into a party that's not his party and completely changing the lighting because it didn't suit him. Maybe you don't know how to throw a party. That's not a people pleaser and I'm jealous of it. It's an enviable quality. Oh, that's funny. But it really felt like, oh, we're going to make it right for everyone. He wanted to make it better. Yes. Give me the lights. People would have more fun.

You guys are trying to raise money at this fucking thing? Like, you're not gonna raise any money if nobody's enjoying themselves. What the fuck are you talking about? I'm here for the charity. And then Al, the guy from Hits From The Street. B-E-T. Al Sheeran. He looked familiar enough that I wasn't scared of him. Takes me outside.

And tells me that the whole play, that we're all going to give each other COVID. He takes me outside and says, hey, man, I want to be cool. I like your movies. And I was like, okay. And my kid really likes you. And I was like, all right. And he says, listen, I'm a cop.

And I'm undercover. Been undercover for weeks. Oh, my God. Breaking up this underground gambling ring. And I was just like, what are you talking about? And he goes, whose game is this? And I go, I literally don't know what you're talking about. My friend invited me to a charity thing.

I'm planning on giving $500. I wasn't even trying to get in on it. Oh, that was the other thing. Kutch comes over to me and I auditioned for Dude, Where's My Car with him. So I think because I was so young in this business and I've seen all the other young people come into it, I have a real soft spot for actors trying to do it. I had a lot of nice people say, hey, hey, hey,

you're totally fucking this up. Don't ever do that again. And you're just like, oh, thanks. Thank you. I actually appreciate that. So I like being able to give a heads up. You've probably never been here before, but I've been here and you gotta watch that step. Letting folks know where the potholes are, as we would say in rap. As we would say. When I'm repeating lyrics from Jay-Z. Okay. Potholes on my lawn. Hold on, I'm gonna make my first joke to Matt about Seth. So this is gonna be the 21st anniversary of the episode of Punk'd.

Oh, it is. No. Oh, yeah. How do we do it? I guess that's true, but you didn't ask me this question. You did ask. We're already in the dynamic that we have the whole movie. 21 years has gone by, and we're already in the exact dynamic. I should have brought it back. I make it. Start with Radio Days.

What? He's so stupid. Was that your first movie? That was like my seventh movie. How old were you? I was 12. 12, okay. Long story short, this guy tells you there's going to be a raid and then all of a sudden there's guys flying through the windows. Yeah, somebody's literally somersaulted through the window and I was like, this is so excessive, guys. Oh my God.

So I immediately see that none of these cops have guns. And I was like, okay, well, this is chill. You weren't nervous at all. Yeah, I was nervous, but I've also been in handcuffs a lot prior to this moment and

Did you say a lot? A couple of times. Oh, you don't strike me as that. I was a bad kid. You were? Seth had the funnest history of he wore trench coats. He kept scythes. What are they called? Scythes swords? I never had scythes, but I got into throwing knives. Well, because the second I found out that ninjas were a thing, I was like, well, I want to be a ninja. Sure. Naturally. That's an option. Yeah. Well, I got picked on, as you can imagine. I was not a popular kid. I had a tremendous amount of energy.

I was hilarious looking. I wore all of my sister's clothes because we didn't have money. And then I had a mom who was eccentric and bought me Norwegian shoes. And then I had to wear that shit to school in Philadelphia. Like wooden shoes? Yeah, like straight up wooden clogs. There was at least three years that my sister and I rolled in no socks and clogs. Oh my lord. Like if you want to get your ass kicked in the same neighborhoods that Will Smith got his ass kicked.

I didn't even play basketball. It was really bad. Did you fight? I've been in a couple of fights. Like threw punches or got punched? I mean, I like threw punches. You swung back. I flailed meaninglessly in the face of some serious aggression. I was also crazy. This one kid had been tormenting me. We were coming down the stairs at one point. He was just like four stairs ahead of me. I just fucking leapt off the stairs, grabbed my hands like around his neck and started punching him in the face. It was, we both fell down.

Oh, wow. To the polished concrete floor, four more stairs below. Why did I do that? Well, that's a bit of the red hair. Yeah. You always got the X factor. Really quick, one second story. So Monica and I are talking, and I was explaining to her that I, growing up, saw on like five different occasions redheads get in fights at my school. In most cases, they were kind of outmatched size-wise.

And that they started crying right before the fight. And I saw a strength and a veracity I've never seen anywhere else other than the redheads. And they always won. And she goes, I find it very hard to believe that every redhead you saw get in a fight, they started crying first and then won. And I said, let's call Aaron Weakley. So we call my best friend. And Monica goes, how did you phrase it? Something like, what happens when redheads fight? He goes, oh, well, first of all, they start crying. And then they beat the shit out of everyone.

It was like the exact same answer. Anywho, the point is we knew each other from Pond. They're from Pond to Pond. I think that's the point. But who got in the movie first? You were in with Autopaddle first? I was. You were. Because I had just made the Italian job with Donald the Lion for Paramount. Great movie. Great movie. It was the only time in my entire career that the head of a studio was like, we want to be in the Seth Green business. And I was like,

fake Sherry Lansing. What do you have for me? And Donald was like, we have this comedy. This character is written as a fat guy, but maybe he's a short guy. And I was like, okay, let's read it. That's a great time for us to introduce. And this will reign as an excuse about some of the jokes in the film. It's indicative of the period.

This is 2003. And to make a comedy, yeah, you're going to have a short guy. Well, it's more the archetype that you can fill to make a very specific type of physical joke over and over again. Whoever's playing whatever the archetypical role is has assumed the burden of carrying out all the physical gags possible on behalf of their body type. John Cleese talks about that endlessly. Like, you know what you're there to do.

Right. And you're going to shamelessly do it in a way that lets the audience feel the thing that you need them to feel. Yeah.

Yeah. It just was a different time. I don't think the executives right now are like, hey, we're having a hard time finding a fatso. Or a little person. A little person. That conversation's not happening. No. You know, legally, I don't fit the criteria for little person, but I'll choke that down. I watched it this morning. I have never seen it. You did? Oh my God. You've never seen it? I'm curious how it reads to someone who never saw it. Real quick. Three takeaways. First and major takeaway is it's

so fun and nostalgic. That type of movie is gone. And I really was like, oh yeah, I get why everyone loves this and feels so connected to it. Great. Uh-oh. I had warned you about it, though. You'd warned me about some things that would trigger me. What are you warning? I do an Indian accent in the movie. Again, I would not do that now. Oh my God, of course you do. This is like setting up the 2005. I see that in the script and I'm like,

Okay, I can do that. And then, of course, Monica and I are becoming really good friends, and we're talking about that accent, and I'm really understanding, like, the only fucking example if you're Indian and your kid was a poo, and I'm like, oh, my God, Monica, I have done the fucking accent, and I feel terrible. So I was like, just don't ever see that movie. But that's not why I didn't. It felt like a boy movie. You weren't a 12-year-old boy. Two is you're the exact same person. Mm-hmm.

Really? I can't believe it. When you're like on your motorcycle and the jokes you're making and even when you're singing in the car, I was like, wow.

He has not changed. But in a good way. In a good way. It was like, oh, you've always been that. I liked it. You don't agree with that? You've just seen so much actual internal evolution. You witnessed your own expansion in ways that the you in that movie wouldn't have actually imagined possible. I watched it last night with the girls. Many scenes, my body's so tight, you guys. Like watching, I'm like, oh my God.

- Oh my God. I was new and I was pretty stiff sometimes. I just grew as an actor over time. I was watching it and I was also thinking like, oh my God, I was like so tiny. - You were tiny. I actually was like, he looks so tall. You're not gonna like this, but I think the bigger your body is, the shorter you appear. - All right. - That's why I never get real deep into the bench work. - That's exactly what's preventing me from going to 212. - You know, 'cause otherwise I'd be Wolverine, guys.

Wait, what's your third takeaway? The relationship. And I know just from hearing Dax, he reflects on that time as being so special. I get it. Like I watched it and I was like, oh man, they all are firing on all cylinders. The chemistry is so good. It looks like such a

fun time. I loved these guys so much right away. And they were so kind. And it could have been competitive and it wasn't. And it was very mentoring and kind and helpful. You were so funny. We were both like, how do I steal his jokes right away? Like, oh my God. I think I stole a joke of yours. And in the makeup chair, you're like, don't you ever ever

Fucking do that again. And I was like, I think I made a joke not on set. It was on camera. It was coming through the thing. We had all done. I don't remember. I don't remember. Because we were all throwing out some kind of one-liner coming into a scene. We're all entering a scene. I had not thought of this, by the way, in 20 years. Thank you. I'm glad. I swear to God. Now I fucking remember.

I haven't thought about it, but I remember each one of these experiences because they were so seminal in all of our experience together. I've been working for as long as I've been working. Wait, go tell what happened. Each one of us starts to say a line and then we do a second take and we each come through and add an improv line. And then the third take through is...

You said one of the things that he had. I'm on to my third improv, and then you grab my first improv. Something like that. That's what happened. We were just like picking up each other's shit. Because it felt very like, who cares? It was like I had taken his daughter. But it's because of where you came from. Right. So first of all, absolutely, it was not a big deal. You're lying.

It was better than anything I was ever going to come up with. I'm, of course, embarrassed by that because, again, I had done punk before that. It was just me. I'm out there improvving these things. And then prior to that was the Groundlings. And that was the conversation we had in the makeup trailer. I hate that you remember. I do because I really regret it. But I remember trying to get into it in this way of like, you didn't really do like a comedy background, huh, Matt? I'm trying to lay out like you would never do that at the Groundlings. Like you would never improv someone and someone would take it.

And so, yeah, I was triggered and scared that I sucked in the movie. And how embarrassing, and I'm sorry. And yes, we should all just take whatever comes up and make the movie great. Oh, it's embarrassing. Well, we all learn and grow, even though you're the same. You know what's funny? Can I just talk about the body dysmorphia that was happening? The body dysmorphia? You...

And I, for the record, were so freaked out about taking her shirt off and being present in our own bodies that the fear that was a part of that movie from beginning to end was palpable. I mean, it was defining. And we were obsessed with the fact that Seth just looked like a fucking gymnast. We were working out in between takes. I wasn't eating. I was like in my underwear the whole time going, look at this. I'm so fat. And I look back now.

And you look fucking great. I think that every time we look back, we're so ensconced in this fear of that moment. And the reality is like, oh, you were so beautiful. For those people at home, like, dude, let it go. It does not serve you at all.

I teach acting a lot. I brought this woman in to talk about the woman's perspective on the journey. And she told this great story about how when she was younger, she had this white bathing suit and she wanted to wear it in the movie. But she was terrified to put on this two-piece white bathing suit. And at the end of the day, she looks at these pictures of her like 10 years later. She goes, I was gorgeous. Yeah.

I know. It was so beautiful. And the story I was telling myself at that time in my life was so destructive. And it's impervious to anything. You can't break out of it. And there's no amount of like accolades or work. It's just a mindset. But there's got to be a way in the moment to tell yourself this isn't the truth. We were. And we talked about it and I was like, fuck, that whole sequence is five days away. We were like pageant contestants when the swimsuit section was coming up. There's like 15 days in our underwear.

Do you remember we went to Italian restaurants? I was just going to say. A celebration. Yeah, with Deline. What was that? That great place. It was so good. Olive Garden. It was like a hearty. And Seth, do you remember, you're not wanting to take the compliments, but you look like a gymnast. So Matt and I would be doing our push-ups. But I was also doing like push-ups and sit-ups every day. You joined in and we were even like, look at this ass.

Such a dick. He's got good ass cheeks. Yes! Bart Waller had to look out because your shit was so legit. You are pound for pound the most beautiful man in Hollywood. I've said it a million times. I was going to continue to say it. Pound for pound the most beautiful man in Hollywood. Have you seen Kevin Hart? Oh, man. He looks fantastic. He's incredible. Yes. He survived breaking his back.

because he's in such good shape. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so you were in the movie first. Yes. I'm bringing him back to a semi-chronological timeline. And then you were in Before Me. But how did you get in the movie? Because you guys are really hot. That sounds embarrassing. But you were just in The Italian Job and you were just in Scooby-Doo, which was an enormous hit. The studio loved him. The only question was whether or not he...

he is this leading man, the guy who kisses the girl, the guy who proposes to the girl. - I tried to talk myself out of that film like three times. - You did? - I did. I read it, I'm like, I don't love it. And that could be also my own fear about being that guy. And there was a whole section in the middle with the women and the trees. And I'm like, that's so stupid, it doesn't work. And I sat down with Brill and DeLine and I'm like, I just think the comedy's off in some places.

And I try to articulate that there are two different forms of comedy in here. There's this big, bold ridiculousness, and then there's this really fellowship-driven, running for your life, really high stakes, and like girls in a tree with long hair on their legs in two different movies. And I was like, this doesn't make sense. At the end of the day, they came through with an offer, and I was like, regret what you did, not what you didn't do.

They were like, we have this guy, Dax Shepard. Seth Green's in. I love Seth Green. We just got to work on Scooby. That was Scooby 1. Scooby 2. So this is the reason that I remember. I loved Matt for so long. He's one of my favorite actors. If you didn't fall in love with Lillard on Scream, your eyes weren't open during Scream. Well, I saw him in SLC Punk and I was like, oh shit, this is just a different...

Well, because like the things that you see him in his studio stuff and then you see the stuff that he's like, this is my heart. I'd put this on film so that you can do what you want with it. That's the shit that impressed me. And so we got to do that scene together. I was so happy. That's where I met Gunn too. Like it was an incredible experience. And so at that point they were like, we're thinking about maybe it's Matt Lillard.

I said, if this is me and Matt Lillard and Doc Shepard, this is a hit. The movie will work. How did you get booed? I ended up getting the offer and I said yes. Did you audition? So not only did I audition, and this is where I'll say Seth really, Seth and Brill. Brill wanted me.

which was awesome. Why did he want you? He liked punked. He thought I was doing something really cool on punked. Then I went and read, and I was not good. Reading the script, I was not very good. And Seth had been brought in to read with me. And Burr was like, forget the script. You guys just improv scenes.

Because he knew I could improv. And then when I was improvving, I was very relaxed and calm. And thank God, Seth's a great improver. So we just basically improv three scenes that they sent to Sherry Lansing, president of the studio, to get me in that movie. But would not have got it by reading Tom's size. And so really, you and Brill are the reason. We all got put in a situation to win. And we did this little movie, to Monica's point, they don't make anymore. Nobody's making a $20 million. Yeah. I looked it up. $19 million.

The thing was made for 19... In another country. Okay, so we all get the movie. We're all in the movie.

We land in New Zealand. Do you remember? Do you remember? I remember so many things. There was some sporting event that was really important for everyone to see. Yeah, the All Blacks were playing the, like, best of. That was in the middle of shit. Yeah, I think when we got there, there was more like a World Cup thing. So we get down there, and what's really cool, and again, doesn't ever happen. In fact, that's the only time this ever happens. We were there, like, three weeks early to learn to do all this river work in canoes. What an awesome way to, like, bond in a hurry.

We were not good at it. And we were going through things that canoes don't go through. And they had hired this amazing dude, Augie. And he was Fijian. Yes. He had just won a gold medal in fucking rowing in the previous Olympics. And he was such a stud. And we all were like trying our hardest to impress Augie. He was so cool, too. He was like, oh, you guys are going to get this. A little overconfident.

He did say at one point, he's like, no matter what happens on the river, if you're in trouble, you have to get yourself out because nobody's coming to save you. That scared the shit out of me for the next three weeks. Remember the first day we got into the Canadian canoe? In that whirlpool? It was like a little waterfall. At the bottom of it was this... Churning. It was this churning thing. And there's three grown men up to like our waist. With a canoe trying to get it out and us keep falling back into the... Oh my God. That was not a great introduction. So stupid.

Again, because it was my first movie, I thought this is how it went. We did all these things that, let's just say, I haven't since gotten to do. We're jumping off waterfalls. And I was operating under this very weird thought of, I felt like I was at an amusement park. Like, well, this is safe. You're on a movie. They've got this all figured out. If they're letting me do this, everything's cool. Yes.

And let's just cut right to the craziest moment probably on it. Also, they told us, oh, it's summer in New Zealand. You're good. The water was never above 50 degrees. We were freezing the whole movie. We had no body fat.

with zero cards. There's one scene in particular and we arrive and we learn of this and I have to be delicate how I say this, but one of the stunt guys the day before was shooting the canoe going through this class five with all these eight foot drops and stuff. And this was an Olympic rower and he came out and he cracked his head open really, really bad. Broke his ribs, shattered his shoulder. They had to airlift him

It was my stunt guy, and the idea was five times a day they would open a dam and tens of millions of gallons would come rushing down the Waiareki. And they would then, in this huge wash of water, they would put three kayakers in this so that they can get a shot of people kayaking in a Class 5 rapid, which we were supposed to be doing, with no helmets. Oh, shit.

And very little safety. And this is before you just take things out with a computer. He did it three times. And on the third time, he got absolutely obliterated. He got obliterated and airlifted out of there. And then the following day, we're there. And we're not going to try to ride a canoe through. But where the canoe has tipped in the movie, now they need footage of us going through that same section. So we're just jumping off of a rock into this thing. And they're going to film us. And you're not acting. You're just trying not to die. Survive. I did try to make like.

hilarious faces might explain what happens next which is this is crazy we're already a little nervous that was the day where i was like oh if the stunt guy is getting airlifted maybe i need to watch out so we all jump in and then matt and i get to the side of the river and seth's gone

there's no fucking Seth. Oh my God. Like, I don't know how many seconds it really was, but it felt like 30 seconds of like, where's Seth? Where's Seth? Where's Seth? Guys on jet skis are starting to rip around because there's jet ski safety. I'm panicked. Like, cause I know what just happened to the stunt guy and Seth is gone. He is not visible. He came up like 300 yards down the river. They had said to me, worst comes to worst. You just ride the river. We got a net down here. And then we got a guy with the binoculars at the end of the river. Oh,

Oh my God. So they're like, look, we're going to get you. And if worse comes to worse, we will eventually find you. You'll have a proper funeral. We promise that. We will bring you back to the United States. We're going to figure out how to sell your stuff. But you submerged and went under the safety line. The first safety line. But then the second guys, they got me like, I stand here, guys. We got him. But he was, Monica, he was very, very far away. It was really funny. But within that, we also had the greatest accomplishment that ever.

I have not ever felt in my life, but we had this moment where we had this like little class three wave that we had tried multiple times. For three weeks straight. I was in the front, Dax was in the back because he was steering and Seth would be in the middle. Keeping balance. Sure. Very important role. And you would hit this class three little wave. You want to get through the wave and at the other side be on this Canadian flat bottom canoe.

And every time, every time we either fell over or filled with so much water by the time we get through, just our shoulders would be above water. And the only time it worked was when we were shooting it. That was unbelievable. I have to thank Jonathan Brown for making us all look like superheroes. The DP that shot that film. Did they ask you guys, are you guys very, very proficient swimmers? No. Because like I would be flabbergasted.

fully dead immediately. - Yeah. You could always say no. I've definitely worked on projects where the actor's like, "I'm not doing this." - There was a really hysterical moment with Burt Reynolds. So he arrived, which was incredible. We were all so excited. And at that point there was- - No, that's not true. - Okay.

You were as excited as any child about to meet Santa Claus. I have never seen anyone adore a man from afar more than you adored Burr. Yeah, I brought posters with me. Oh, that's so cute.

He got some that I couldn't get my hands on for me and left them in my trailer. He would literally preemptively, without you asking, would leave DVDs for you. Brie got several, too. She hadn't asked for any. Brie, your ex-girlfriend. My ex-girlfriend Brie. No, the cheese. Bert's like a crazy cheese fish. Yeah, he loves it. It's what killed him in the end.

the end he gave her here's the two photos burt gave her one was with him bare naked on a horse holding a dog over his private parts and then the famous rug one of course naked on a rug these are the ones for brie and each of them on a horse like this he rescued it clearly seth is probably injured and it said like beautiful brie this is when i was young and cute like dax oh

Oh. You loved it? It was one for both of us, really. Tell the story from showing up. I had been begging our director, Brill, to let us jump off the 100-foot waterfall. We did jump off like a 25, 30-foot one with the four-wheeler gag. I had zero interest in jumping off this 100-foot waterfall. It should be shut. But I was really driving fast.

real nuts at this point. He's like, they're professionals. I'm like, you think there's someone who's professional at falling through the air? This is a racket you're proposing to me that you can be better or worse at falling through the air. It's really how you land more than you think. Yeah.

And so I was driving him nuts. Bert got there and I thought, you know what? I'm going to use Bert to help me convince Brill that I should do it. And I tell Bert like, listen, they've got this stunt coming up and they don't want to do it. And he pulls me aside and he goes, listen to me. I did the exact same thing on my first movie on Deliverance. I insisted they let me go over this waterfall. I broke my back. And you cannot tell it's me in the movie. Do not jump off that waterfall.

And I was like, okay. Like, well, if my dad says so, I guess I can. The greatest thing about that is he showed up at this incredible resort in the Waiareki. They've thrown this party for Bert. Like, it's supposed to start at 7, and Bert shows up at 11 o'clock at night. Well, time change. There's five of us waiting for him. He was everything you wanted him to be. He loved his stories. I mean this in the best possible way. The story is probably jumping off a 20-foot waterfall. That was probably the reality. He probably slapped his back.

But over time, it had lost pop to him. And now it was 700 feet and he almost died. I ate that bear. But we sat there and every one of us just let him be the movie star that he was. And he was so loving to the...

He was rough with directors, but he loved actors. He got into a place in his career where he needed to remind people that he knew what he was doing. He would make a bit of a demonstration on set about how much homework he had done or how good he is at his job.

that's a common folly. It just is an insecurity thing. You could tell, man, it was the first movie he had done in a while. And getting back at a job for a studio, not just not the lead, he was much older, playing like an older man, really struggling with his own vanity, really struggling with what he can look like and what he's supposed to play that can challenge an actor, any human. It's hard to sort of grow old gracefully. We already admitted that

were bad version would be vain the kinder would be we're insecure you and i were already i don't know if i'm good looking enough to be in these we grew up with that baggage yes stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare

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Tam. Tam the Moth. By the way, I still get people. Oh, Tam. Do they? Oh, yeah. Because of the podcast. We talked about him. Oh, Tam. But do you remember that Burt's big stunt that he did? Yes. It's not even in the movie. Please tell the story. Yes, it is. Him going over the railing. I don't know if it is. I just watched it. But he was going to get shot and go over a railing. Over a woodpile.

- Oh, okay, over the wood pile. - Yeah, yeah, sorry. - Point is he's-- - Very important. - I don't know why that's so important. - I thought it was a Rayleigh. - Point is he's gonna take a big fall. - Sure. - And of course there's a stunt man brought in to do that. He's like in his 70s. By the way, he told me don't do your own stunts. - Yeah, I was about to say the irony. - Hold on a second, maybe I do wanna do this waterfall thing. But so he basically tells Brill, he's like, get him out of here, I'm doing the stunt.

Get my wetsuit. Oh, God. He travels with it. Instead of having pads that you should have or normally would have, his move is to put on a wetsuit. And he's like, I can jump off anything as long as I have the wetsuit to land on. So he gets a wetsuit on. It's true. And he's seven years old. And they put his outfit on. Oh, my God. And then fucking jump backwards. Absolutely no rationale. He gets squibbed. He goes to launch himself over the lungs.

He gets caught on the logs and starts to like scooch over the logs and flops on the back side. So three of us had wrapped and we stuck around to watch it. The entire place erupts. And Louie's like, that's a wrap on Burt Reynolds. Bringing Stunt Guy. Yeah. This is such a great point of perspective because in my memory, he did it. Oh, yeah. I thought he did it too. You're him. That's why. I'll never forget. Burt Reynolds slapped me in a scene.

And I don't think I've ever seen you jealous of me in your entire life, except for that one moment. I was furious. You were like, how did he slap you? Why did he slap you? You put up with so much from him. Yeah. But do you know the thing about the slap? So Burt Reynolds and all those Cannonball Run movies, and any movie he did with Dom DeLuise, when one of them would forget their lines, they'd slap each other. And then at the end of the movie, there would be a great gag reel, and you'd see Burt Reynolds slapping everyone. And so he slapped Lillard, and I was like,

I wanted to get slapped. Yeah, that's sad. But your point about age, everyone feels this, right? Whether you're an actor or not. But for an actor, visually, you see a timeline of your life and little things changing in your body and your face. It must be hard. It's hard for anyone. It was just my birthday, as we just discussed. Happy birthday. You guys already sang to me. It was very sweet. But, you know, it's like, whoa. No, we don't have to do it again. Happy birthday to you.

It makes you think about, we've been talking about it so much, like death and mortality and-

When you see the visual representation, it must be harder. I don't feel different. Exactly. I still feel like this beautiful boy in the movie. And I look at my body and I look at my face and I'm like, oh, I am not the same. And I do love this sense of gained wisdom over time and having an ownership of a career that I'm proud of, being an artist, all these things I've grown into as a man. I still look at who I was growing up and like, you've come so far. Yeah.

It's humbling. - You have a bit of compassion for yourself. Like, why was I doing that to myself? - In my mindset, I've always been scrambling up a ladder with very little success.

when I look back at my career, beyond my wildest dreams have I been successful. - Exactly. - Yes. - And still working. - You couldn't shoot this on time. I wanted this to come out on the exact 20th anniversary and it's delayed 'cause you're in another fucking country. You're in Toronto? - Toronto. - Don't geotag him. He's trying to get some food with his family. - Well, Five Nights is the single biggest thing that ever happened in my life. That movie, Five Nights at Freddy's. - Isn't that crazy? - So Five Nights at Freddy's is a franchise that came out last year. - The movie.

Yeah, it's a video game. $20 million movie made $300 million. Oh my God. Yeah, yeah. Guys, well, Dada Paddle is still my biggest movie. Is it really? I've been in a couple that made more, but I wasn't really in them. You know, like I wasn't on the poster. But for a movie that I was one of the main people, it never got better. Film-wise, it went downhill from there. But you also got to put in...

years on a drama with some of the most gifted and talented people. Yeah, TV, I've always had great luck on TV and of course I never embraced it. Yeah, but it's kind of just become the same thing. The shows are the shows, the movies are the movies. Yeah! Because of the reality TV, I think it's just democratized the concept of fame. People become intimate with you in whatever your form of expression is. And I meant total peace with everything. I could not be more delighted with the way everything shook out, right? But...

That first movie was as good as it got for me in the trades. Our joke was that the three of us combined hopefully would equal like an Owen Wilson. Right. We were like, let's hope that the three of us adds up to one Owen Wilson film. I don't know.

I just want to touch on one of the stories Burt told at that dinner because it is to this day probably my favorite story I've ever heard. And I wonder if you remember, it's the Hal Needham story. He's living with Hal Needham in real life, Burt Reynolds. And one day Hal comes home from work and he says, Burt, you got to take me to the hospital. I broke my back.

And Bert goes, Hal, I don't think if you broke your back, you would have driven home and blah, blah, blah. And he's like, take me to the fucking hospital right now. So they go to the hospital and Hal and Bert are in the examination room. This is a weird part of the story, but he does include that Hal's like flirting with the nurse and got something going with the nurse. And the doctor seems to be annoyed by that. Bert's opinion is that maybe the doctor and the nurse were having an affair or something. But it's a little bit of bad detail. Hal, by the way, stop, man.

Stuntman and director. He directed Hooper. He directed Smoking the Bandit. The most legendary stuntman of all time. So they give him an x-ray. The doctor comes in and he says, you have broken your back. Worse, you have a good deal of fluid in your lungs. And I have to drain the fluid out before I put you in the back brace and send you on your way. And he says, okay. And he says, you're going to have to stand up against the wall. I need you standing. I'm going to put this needle in your back. And then he says to the nurse, the doctor says, I want you to hold his legs.

And Hal is in the full little gown. And so Hal's against the wall. And right when the doctor puts the needle in his lungs, Hal shits all over the nurse who's holding his legs. Oh!

remember this story because i'm like all the details of why you do because i've never heard a story in my life where i thought it was going in one direction it was about how tough he was he was flirting with her and then was the doctor and him gonna fight and i'm like hell shit all over the nerves that's

I do not remember that. How could you have forgotten that story? I remember the next day you going, I just wonder what part of that was real. And I was like, man, don't you dare let logic stand in the way of a story of this magnitude. Just allow yourself to think that happened. Oh, God.

I think another fun thing. So one of the very scary things was like all the river work and the jumping. The next thing is Bart the Bear. Oh, God. I tell that story all the time. Wait, I want to. OK, we want to hear your version because we've heard that. And I want to see the comparison. I bet Bart the Bear comes up on this podcast more than any other thing from my career. Like Cedar Point.

It's the best.

Low rent. So happy for you guys. White trash place in the world. Okay, so your version is of Bart the Bear. Yeah, so Bart gets there, right? He's taking like seven or eight stops. Utah, San Francisco, China, Australia, New Zealand. I thought it went to Alaska. Oh. Didn't he go up to Utah, Alaska, China? Yeah, yeah, yeah. How many ports he needed to stop in? Or was this other work that he was doing along the way? Bart's doing a bunch of appearances. Bart! Yeah.

He's signing autographs at the Alaska... For? Crab Fair. Parts in Beijing signing autos. That is exactly... So he gets there. They all have this meeting. They're literally... Anyone who's menstruating, please don't be on set. Okay, that's part of it. So they've got...

You've got like a long ladled frying pan that they fill with coffee and whipped cream. How hard that is to lift it. Like think about cleaning a pool. How challenging that is. And then balance a fucking frying pan. And they would get this bear all hopped up on coffee and whipped cream. And then they bring Bart out. Bart's trainer talks like this. And his son's there. He's got a dart gun. Trait duty. Yeah. And so long and short of it is, there's a scene where the camera's here. Bart's...

Bart is moving across the foreground and Dax and I are behind. Now listen, the bear has learned not to go over these little wires that literally will get you in the ankles. They're electrocuted little wires. During the training they have been, but then they don't have them electrified when we're actually shooting. It's just precaution and it's a psychological trick that they play with Bart the bear. This could be the moment that Bart was like, hey, these aren't on. Yeah. We don't know.

So they get in this shot, right? And we start shooting. Action! And the bear starts to walk across. All of a sudden, halfway through, the bear stops. And you hear the trainer goes, Bart! No, Bart! No, Bart! Don't look at the bear! And Dax and I are sitting there like, what the fuck? He's like, don't run! Don't panic, boys! And the bear's like, oh, oh, oh.

And you can see the bear getting agitated. This is horrifying. He's like, don't look at the bear! And we're sitting in our underwear. Do you remember he tore the fake tree apart? He attacked. There was a fake tree. He just demolished this fake tree. Like, we saw his wrath. Right there. And he's like, no more! No more! And he's screaming. And we are, like, literally...

- Two naked men. - We were dressed. - We were dressed, yeah. - Oh, we were? - All of our naked stuff was-- - Oh, now I'm embarrassed. - No, it's okay. It's embarrassed. - And then you see his son with the gun trained on the Bart. What else did I forget? - My version, of course, is here are the rules around Bart. If you're on your period, you can't come to set. Two, don't look Bart in the eyes. Three, don't run in front of Bart. It'll trigger his predatorial instinct.

And then don't be afraid around him because he can sense it. In the very first scene in the movie that you just set up, if you recall, my back is completely to Bart. You guys are staring at him and you guys are telling me to turn around. There's a bear. I turn around. I look Bart directly in the eyes. I scream and then I run. And I was like,

Guys, I'm gonna do three of the four things. I'm just not on my period. That's the only thing I have going for me. It was a wide shot, so there's nobody close to us on either side. There's nothing but darkness behind us and the bear going across. And they're like, don't look at him, boys! Don't look at him! Okay, but now turn around and look at him and scream and run!

And then the other weird one that happened was when Bart was thrashing that horse trailer. I mean, he needed to work, but he was in there thrashing the horse trailer. Everyone doesn't know what to do. And Doug got in the horse trailer by himself and shut the door. And we're listening. And you keep hearing Doug go, no, no, Bart. And then the trailer moves around. And then you hear, oh, Bart.

Oh, good boy, Bart. And clearly he's calmed him. And he would lay on top of Doug, remember? Oh, yeah. That was the thing I remember the most was him laying on top of Doug. Because you would all of a sudden hear that like, good boy, Bart. Good boy. Good boy. Oh.

Oh my God. It was madness, Monica. Yeah, I'm shocked you guys survived this movie. There's so many opportunities for all of us to die on that movie. And none of us did, guys. No. None of us did. And everyone had a lot of scars that worked with Bart. Yeah, yeah. Except for Doug. Do you guys remember Doug's eyes? No.

They were magic. They were like the most beautiful, soothing blue eyes I'd ever seen. I was like, that's why he can get down with Bart the way he can. Something about those eyes. Until you can't. Still a bear. That's right. Still a bear. Still a bear. Popped up on coffee and sugar. Exactly. That was crazy. Everything that happened on that movie is super imprinted for me because it's my first one.

I probably remember so many details. That was like your 29th movie. It was the first time that I had gotten a direct offer. It was the most I'd made on a movie at that point. It was the first time that the studio was like, yeah, we're going to put you on the poster on purpose. On purpose. You know what I mean? So there was a little bit of, not pressure, but I was like, all right, guys, well, this is our shot. You leveled up and it was like a thing. Why didn't it level us up? It leveled you up. I never got a leading man role after that.

- That's so honest and true, and we talked about it. I got a lot of opportunities out of that. - Yeah, for sure. - You guys were known quantities, and I was this new thing, and I was a part of something that worked, and I got a ton of opportunities out of that. I got to lead maybe three movies in a row right after. None of them worked, you'll be happy to know.

So it was a short-lived- - I would not be happy to know. - He doesn't want that. - I know you're always really funny. - I do think it's funny. At that point in your career, 'cause you were brand new, you had lots of ideas of what fame looked like. Lots of ideas of what money looked like. That was a big thing for you. You're like, "This is what I'm doing. "If I ever make money." And I look at your life now, you're doing very well. And the difference

between that moment and now. Yeah, you were so rich to me. It's so funny. And you probably said so. Did he say so? I don't know, but I went to your house in Pasadena and I was like, oh my God, look at this pool and he has a Porsche. And I think that's funny now because it's not who you are now. It's also not who you are now.

now. And what's funny is I got the money when I stopped trying to get the money. That's how it always goes. Does happiness have anything to do with money? No. It's the Mike Tyson quote. He goes, when someone tells me that having a lot of money will make you happy, what I know about that person is they've never had a lot of money. And I'm like, whoa. That goes right to... But if I had told...

26-year-old Dax that that was the case, you'd be like, fuck you, you're rich, you have no idea what you're talking about. Yeah. Oh, I know. I say that all the time. I'm like, I'm passing the sign. I wouldn't listen. You're not going to listen unless you can experience it. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think movie-wise, unless there's any other scenes you guys think of that we should chat about, but I think now what would be fun is just what was happening off-camera was so sweet and so fun. We started...

in Wellington in the North Island of New Zealand. And then we were kind of on the road for the second half. And when we were in New Zealand, you had an apartment, I had an apartment, you were at the Intercontinental. - Right, just get that hotel life, room service, up all night. - Yeah, I'm surprised you guys didn't go for that. - Well, I was saving, if you guys recall, all my per diem. Again, back to the money fears. I was like, "Oh, I gotta get this per diem. "I gotta save up." Remember, you got like a nice apartment. It was by a gym. I'm like, "How much is that place?"

How much of your per diem are you spending? And you're like, I'm not thinking about my per diem. That's what it's there for. I get the money. Oh, it was driving everything. And I saved all my per diem until I relapsed at the end of the movie. And then magically, all of this per diem, by the time I got on the airplane, I had zero per diem. I was like, where'd all the per diem go? Oh, that's right. I've been fucked up for four days. And now it's all completely gone.

- I just think your ability to express your own journey in sobriety publicly is incredible. - It really is. - Oh, thank you. - Because I would be like, "I can't share that." - There was a lot of things for me that was going on, but one of them was I was maybe two months sober when I got there.

And it's like my first movie and you guys are normal so you can drink and have fun. And I feel like I'm missing out on that. And I don't know how much I was talking about, but I guess when Ethan arrived, I was really fucking happy because Ethan was also sober. I could at least commiserate with him. And he and I were both smoking six, 700 cigarettes a day. If you recall, I do drinking 5,000 cigarettes at one point when we were working together. I remember specifically because we were out in the lake.

And you spit something out of your mouth that I had never seen before. And I was like, are you all right? And you said, yeah, I'm just not smoking cigarettes anymore. So all this shit is coming out. Oh, oh, oh. All this shit is coming out. Not smoking cigarettes. And the second you stop smoking, your lungs start doing the thing that they're supposed to do and start filtering all this shit. Oh, my God.

- Oh my God. - Out of your lungs, you wind up like coughing up all of the stuff that's getting trapped in. - But he was sober too. - Well, he quit smoking weed. - The athleticism required, I just knew it was gonna be endurance challenge. And also it was like a first big opportunity. I was like, I do not wanna be at all cloudy. I'm gonna run my program. I'll find my moments to sleep. I'm gonna eat what I need to eat. I'll exercise when I need to exercise. Like everything for the movie.

At that point. And I knew that smoking the way I like to smoke. He wasn't smoking weed, but he drank. People were buying me shots all night. Walking in New Zealand with Seth. He is the most recognizable celebrity. I look exactly like me. Exactly like you. No matter what I do. And you refuse to wear a baseball hat. I was still a little bit like, what? I'm just going to a movie. Let me be a people. Yeah. Oh my God. Let me be a people. And we have to surround him to get him out. I loved it. And you're like, I'm in the movie too. Hi, I'm Dad.

Is punk down here? He is not. Okay. But then all that to say, one of you two, I feel like it was you, Matt, got the idea. Let's rent. There's this spectacular house. Oh, yeah. The king of Thailand had built some crazy house. He didn't live there. And he was just about to rent it out for the first time. And you figured that out. And you were like, let's all share this.

I was like, oh, okay, that'll be all my per diem. But yeah, that is just like as special as it gets. And we were playing games. Yes, you were making us do a thing. Running charades. Running charades. Oh, yeah, we had so much fun. My birthday every year, we'll play like Celebrity, running charades. You told us we all had to bring five minutes of our favorite movie. Coffee and Clip.

What is that? That's funny. Coffee and clips is you ask people to bring a clip of a movie. It can be anything, three to five minutes long. You just have to have a reason why you've chosen it.

So you show the clip and then you sort of have a conversation about why that clip means something to you. I love that. It's sort of like a great way to get to know people because you're like sharing like this reminds me of my dad. Very cool. Even within that is I think also what was an interesting dynamic between all of us, which is it's impossible that the symmetry could work so well, but no one was in each other's lanes. And I say this with real respect. Matt's a fucking artist. He's a fucking artist.

he loves acting. He loves teaching. He loves learning. You're like such a beautiful, real artist. And Seth was like in the middle of that spectrum. Great reverie for it, a professional, but also can pop in or out. And then I don't know what I do back in improv. And

And I don't have much reverie for any of it. And it was so fun. Like we all had such different approaches to what we were doing. And then I would even say like, you're very alpha. You're the leader of wherever you're at.

And I'm kind of the leader, but we're such different ones that there was never, at least from my point of view. No, never. Never. Just like love and coexistence. And then you are your own version of Alpha, which is like you've never done anything you didn't want to do ever. Period. It's not happening. Maybe not on film. But, you know, you're a very...

convicted person in a really admirable way. You know what you like and what you believe and you're not easily swayed. So, you know, that it just gelled the way it did is kind of magic. You know, so I look back on that experience specifically and I think that a lot of people like go off and have college experiences. They're in a fraternity, they're in whatever. We have this moment. You're together, you're inseparable, you're through thick and thieves, you're thick as thieves, through thin, through thick...

I got it. You cut that part out? No. I gotta leave that in. I'm sorry. Thank you. Rob, what's a great metaphor for not super close? It all just comes together. No, but we were together and we're thick as thieves and together all the time. And there is that bond. Who do you think's changed the most? Changed us. Circumstances or as a person? Not circumstances, as a person. We've just watched him mature and evolve into this role in a way that I think we

both saw coming at least as a possibility. I did not see coming. What are you talking about? When we worked together, I'm like, oh, this guy could do it. Don't make missteps and you crushed this. You got the right attitude. You definitely got the goods.

You just got to show up and do the job, like actually do the job. You didn't make a great case for it at the press junket. I wouldn't have bet on me. Oh, I'm not saying I wouldn't have bet on you. And I don't mean career-wise. Let's just fast forward to the end of the movie. So I had been sober the whole movie. We get to the last like five days. Well, I know exactly what specifically happened is when I would go out with you, I would always order a Red Bull and you would get a Red Bull vodka. I was at

the bar fully intending to stay sober and i ordered a red bull and i grabbed it and i took a huge pull and it was vodka like right when it hit my throat i was like i said you know alcohol is such a specific feeling in your throat i was like oh well i already drank that i'm like what am i gonna do right now and i'm like i'm just gonna drink the rest of this red bull so i drank the rest of the red bull

No further issue that night. A couple days went by. I was like, yeah, look at that. I had a drink. Showed up for work. Everything's groovy. I'm like, look

I'm like, I'm gonna get a bottle of wine when I go home and I'm just gonna drink one glass. And then I did that successfully. I'm like, we're doing all right. Next night, same, cut to. - It was the Saturday party, the sunup party. - You guys remember this? We were shooting through the night and I'm like, I'm gonna have a party at my apartment in Wellington when we wrap. And I took all my per diem money. - They guaranteed us we were gonna wrap in daylight. - And then we had two days off. It was like the last shot of the week.

And then I'm like, fuck it. I did great. We have one day left, I think maybe. I'm going to host a party. Before we wrapped, you said, hey, the locals have something they're calling crank. No, no. P. They called it P. You're like, it's basically like bathtub crank. I think it comes from a big pen like the faculty. And I was like, I don't like anything. Come to find out, many members of our crew were fully on P the whole time, which was not revealed until this party I hosted.

So we have a party at my apartment that starts at like 8 a.m. There's like probably 30 people from the crew. You're there. People are there. I'm not there. You knew that this was not a good idea? I had a wife and kid. I mean, I was in a different world. Yeah. They were like, we're going to get some weed. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to smoke a joint. It's in the daylight during the sun. I'll be the first time in three months. All the work is behind us enough that I'm going to take this moment. I also think I would have jumped in. Okay.

I also don't know if I was invited. I'm pretty sure I would have been like, bro, do not fucking do that. You're very good at separating yourself from the situation, though. I am. You're a very good guy and you would have tried to help. And maybe you knew that, which is maybe why you didn't invite him. Yeah, oh, I'm certain I invited him. I'm sure. But for whatever reason, he wasn't there.

Everything's kind of kosher. I don't remember his name and I don't even want to single him out. But there was a dude that was hanging around that had been one of the characters in Lord of the Rings. And he was an enormous dude. He was a stuntman and an actor. And he was like 6'4 and Maori and like 300 pounds.

We party. The normal people leave. All of a sudden, the pee comes out. I'm smoking pee with the crew members. This turns into like a two-day thing. Turns into me hanging with this dude who's enormous. He's like, do you want to get some ecstasy? Yes. Cut to me and him on four hits of ecstasy. I've been awake for two days. And this whole time I'm around him because I'm so afraid he's so strong. I have to find out. I'm like, would you like to wrestle? Yeah.

He's like, absolutely. Cut to us wrestling for 40 minutes on ecstasy in my apartment day two. Somehow get through the last day of work. And then the wrap party. I don't know if you guys remember the wrap party, but I had had so many hits. My lips were like so big. And Drew was like, what is happening with your mouth? I'm like, I've been chewing on it for the last three days. I'm peeing. Oh my God. I actually left the wrap party after only a half an hour and

and flew to New York to shoot Sesame Street. So I was just having a completely different experience. Yeah, yeah. I find that so heartbreaking. You do? Yeah. Yeah, I know. I find it so heartbreaking. I know that your candor is like part of your superpower, but it just makes me so sad that that's how it ended. Yeah. Yeah.

I remember on the plane ride home, I was flying back sitting next to Brill. He's like observed the last week of this experience and how quickly it ratcheted up. And he goes, you know, I was like bummed you didn't drink. And I thought, oh, it'd be fun to party with Dax. And having witnessed it, you shouldn't. Don't do this.

And I was like already in the shame of having done all that. I just remember that flight home, him just real talking me. That's one of those moments where like an adult or as much of an adult as you have is like, hey man, don't fuck this up. Yes. That's true. I think at some point you said to me, you're like, the difference between you and me is that you can have a drink and be fine. I immediately started to think, well, where am I going to get my next drink?

What time does the liquor store close on Sunday? There's a Friday. I go, okay, I'm going to go buy bottles for Saturday, but I know I'm going to go through it. So on Sunday, I need to make sure I have drinks through the night. And then I end up at LAX Smoking Crack. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ghost town. There is no end to the chase. Until the body collapses. My fear of leaving that state where I don't have insecurities and worries and fears is

To leave it, I'd rather be dead. So I go until the body goes, that's it. We're turning you off, you know? Yeah. Well, that got heavy. Yeah, it usually does. Yeah. Yeah, addiction is the fucking worst. The upside is like,

Also, thank fucking God I made it through 95%. I would have ruined that whole experience if I hadn't at least held it together as long as I did. You would have ruined your whole life. You wouldn't be in this seat right now. Hollywood would have been like, that kid, you can't trust him. You would not have wanted to do four more movies to understand...

that there's real value to you. You got to the point where you were able to, in your addiction, love yourself. I think, I know nothing about it. Yeah, yeah. Not that I don't have my own issues. Yeah, you chose yourself at some point. Yeah. I read Tom Arnold's book, which has the best title ever. It's like How I Lose 7 Pounds in 10 Years or something like that. That's roughly the name of the book. He said in that book, luckily...

The only thing I was addicted to more than cocaine was wanting to be famous. I knew I would lose this other thing I wanted so bad. It's the only thing I wanted worse than cocaine. And in some level, that was true because I got sober for Without a Paddle. I came home. I was fucked up for a period from that relapse. Then I got sober for Idiocracy. Then Press Tour, which is its own funny. We could do a whole episode on just our Press Tour. We talk about it on sets. Original episode on our show.

We talked about nine cities in 13 days. It was so fun and insane and way too much work for anybody. What's your funnest moment from the press tour? Was it Wrigley Field?

Oh, that was fun. We threw out the first pitch. But it was that whole night was so insane. I shot video of you eating the deep dish pizza. That still makes me laugh. Because we just had a conversation about how good the pizza was. And then it turned into a bit of us just eating the pizza and weeping over the quality of the pizza. So Dax is just like, I'm just so hungry. I'm like,

The thing I remember most about the whole experience is that the two of you always had bits. We're always on. We'll start doing the same voice, and we're so annoying to be around. And Heather was like, have fun today. Good luck getting a word in to Edge Buds. Because the two of you make each other laugh. You bring each other legitimate joy. And so the two of them at a table of like 15 people, like... Yes.

And in that period, we had a really good impersonation. We were doing an old man voice a lot. We were constantly going like, well, those are some decadent penis. You had been workshopping this character because you were building your own version of Fletch, which I was like, so excited. I'm like, this is what you do. And he's like, all my heroes, Steve Martin, it's Will Ferrell. You write your movie. You say, I'm this character. And then he had all these characters he was workshopping. And you had this Southern gentleman who was a refined, sophisticated fella.

Love nuts. He saw himself as an aficionado of the nuts. It must have been maddening for you. It was hilarious when you're surrounded by people that are authentically funny. There have been a couple times in my life I'm like, I'm funny, I'm charming.

But these two men are the two funniest people in that space. I would try to compete. I learned this about myself. I can't compete at that level. Yeah. So you just sit back and enjoy. Or get annoyed. Either is fair. Or walk away. My favorite memory on the press tour is at some point, you had two women that you had brought to the plane to go over the border. I was like, you guys, how are they going to get back? They're like, it doesn't matter. They'll get back. I was like, they need passports. You know what I have? Fuck.

You can't just get them on the plane. We fell in love in an interview. None of that is true. I did. We were in Canada and we met some press women, journalists that were young women, comparable age. And they were both like very professional. We're like, listen, why don't we go out for dinner tonight? Come meet us at the airport because we got to fly out, but we have at least an hour. Then the plane is grounded. We're like, hey, we're here through the night. Maybe this is a thing. And the whole press tour, we were like, get on the plane with us. Everything.

Every city, they were trying to get women on the plane. Time to remind people you were in an open relationship. Yes, yes, yes. Because we have been talking also about Bree. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Were you in an open relationship? Yes, how could you not remember that? We were very open about that. It was pretty open. We would always tell people. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

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Okay, my two favorite memories are, one, I was always so hung up on where we were going to sit, because all three of us would go to all these shows all around the country. Clearly, one of you two should be next to the host. It's debatable who's more famous, right? Well, we know where Shepard's sitting. He's sitting, like, wherever the third seat is. The whole...

We're doing some weird local sports show in Philadelphia. And you two are right next to the host. And I'm just like out in fucking left field. And I'm now bored. And there's a boxing glove on display. And I just grabbed the boxing glove and I put it on. And you're like mid-sentence. And I fucking punched you in the shoulder. Because this is at the end. Like we had gone bonkers. And I just fucking blasted you in the shoulder with a boxing glove.

- You turn around and like, I'm wearing a boxing glove all of a sudden. They had to finally widen out and show who's the third guy in the room. - That's hilarious. I don't remember that by the way. But I do think that that was when they asked you about Family Guy, 'cause Family Guy was down. - Oh yeah, we were off the air. - I had no idea you were on Family Guy. Cut to, it's still-- - It's been on 25 years. - That's crazy. - This part of the story plays into the Family Guy.

So we had a little gap between interviews and we were all hungry and we went to a Chili's that was in the parking lot of a mall in Philadelphia. And we get in the restaurant and we're sitting at a booth looking out the window and Seth goes, oh my God, this is where my mother used to drop me off for the bus that would take me to summer camp.

And she drove such a piece of shit, I would always want her to drop me off like really far away from the bus. But it's a big open parking lot. It's hard to hide. And on this one...

she pulled into the lot and the car was engulfed in flames. Fire in front of all these kids he didn't want to know. And I'm on the bus trying to make time with this cool girl. I'm like, hey, we're going to spend the weekend together. What are you into? Is that your mom's car? What? No. That's some poor kid. No way. That is crazy. No way. There's also where he pitched Robot Chicken. Yes. And I was like, that's the dumbest idea I've ever heard. No way.

And Katya, he has a studio. So back to Family Guy. I don't know what it was three years ago. It was very public that the core actors had signed an incredible deal for an incredible amount of money per episode and that they ordered two years right out of the gates. And I read this article and I sent it to Seth and I said, first of all, congratulations. I am so fucking proud of you. Also, I think you should go buy a brand new Cadillac and set it on fire in the mall. Yeah.

in Philadelphia and just say fuck y'all I can burn this bitch you remember that I do I do I love it I had to remind you I just don't have that kind of impulse in my heart in my heart it's so strange I'm not thinking about any of the people in that city or neighborhood or that parking lot or that summer camp did you have a

No, I read a lot. I took psychedelics when I was 16 and I really got through a lot of the things that most people take a much longer time to go through. When I met Seth...

I was walking into Paramount for something, and I see Seth Green pull into the guard shack. And, of course, I know Seth Green. He's famous, and he's rich. And he pulls in. He's driving a Honda Civic. And I was like, what the fuck is this guy doing driving a Honda Civic? Seth was, like, known for this. He drove a Honda Civic. We hung out a ton. You and I are fucking bros. We got back from him without a pedal. We did not stop. He had a little apartment in the valley. With all these toys on the wall. Uh-huh. And he built a tree inside the place. Yeah, yeah.

He never had any kind of flash at all. But it's admirable if you, especially, you're saying with your mom and the car and the shoes. And I feel like most people would be compensating for that for a while if they had the means, which you did. When I say like self-conviction, like you know yourself and you're really not trying to appease anyone. Yeah. When you're this young.

height with this face you gotta figure out how you fit in perfect bod well I don't know where you guys rank it

But it never got better. I am so lucky that I got that experience with you two guys. Ditto. It's one of these things too where it's like, I think that experience was nine months. Because, you know, I have so many memories about it. How long was it? It was three full months. There's no doubt that that's the most fun I've ever had on a film. It's easily the best relationships I've ever made on a film that persevere. I mean, we don't see each other, but I love the two of you. I've always said that. And I feel like

It's beloved. It doesn't matter what that movie did financially. That's one of the highlights of my life, without a doubt. I told you guys when it was happening that what was happening was rare. Like, I've worked on a lot of movies, especially location movies, stuff where you get the luxury of that summer camp vibe where everybody is there. And I've done it at the smallest scale on, like, a shitty independent horror movie, and I've done it on that huge scale. Where the studio's got, like, Lobster and you're,

craft services. You know what I mean? There's an excessive version of it. It doesn't necessarily make it better. When it works, when everybody on it has something that they need to prove and nobody's trying to prove the same thing when it actually is just working the way it's supposed to work. It is so rare. This is fun. Yeah, it was so fun. Back to like looking at yourself and going like, I can't believe I hated how I looked. I would say additionally, that movie's not the work I've done that I'm proudest of.

And that's the movie that would get traded last. Right. So it's like results versus experience. It's not like I look at the results of that movie and I'm like, yeah, that's my finest moment. Not by far. I had so much to learn. But...

The last one I would trade, maybe hit and run a movie I directed with Kristen. But other than that, that'd be the last on the list of things I would ever lose my memory of. Yeah, I don't ever want to lose it. So let me ask you a question. What did your daughters think? They loved it. Did they? You know what's really great about the movie? And I think this went away in comedy. It's like there are set pieces, one after another. There's a bear chasing somebody, a bear carrying somebody. There's stakes. We're panicked. Then there's an ATV chase.

The physical comedy works in that movie like crazy. I think it's also funny just to let people know that we thought we were making Diner. We were certain of it. We thought we were making a coming-of-age Diner young adult, and we all saw it.

And we were like, I love Brill and I love Deline. But we were all a little bummed when we came out of the first screening. Because it's just like, here's what you need to know. And literally nothing else. And we had all done this scene with the dead kid's mom and got handed the box. And this was important for our friend. And we were all in it as actors talking about, well, what was our life like when we were kids? Well, clearly we played Indiana Jones and just trying to break it.

psychologically to follow the thread and so they told us early on Brill was like yeah we're gonna reshoot so fuck the funeral scene we're gonna have you guys find the box in the treehouse now you'll discover why is the mom she just lost her son everything's sad he's like we gotta get into the adventure so we did those pickup shots and then you see it when you watch the movie you can see oh shit nothing matters until we're on the water

Yeah. The truth is they were right. Yes. It was a movie for 12 year olds. That's why it worked. And it should have been a movie for 12 years. And it didn't really matter that we thought we were making diner in the woods. But our intent, our sincerity. Yeah. All of that is palpable. Even if you only catch like a moment of it, because we did all of the actual emotional work in the margins. When you watch these conversations,

Quick clips. There's no doubt from the audience that you feel the way you feel, that we're going through what we're going through. I was really, as much as I was hating my stuff, I was aware of it at the time. But you're really, really, really great in it. You're really great, Matt. I want to do this podcast every week. It held up. You can re-listen. I'm expecting all of us to have a little egg on our face. And I'm watching it. I'm like, you did as good as a person could do in that role. You were really great.

Thank you. You didn't re-watch it, did you? No, I asked my son who's 16. I was like, hey, you want to watch the movie? He's like, I've seen it like six times. My kids have all watched it. It's really fun because your kids are young. They're going through the journey of what it's like to have parents that are famous. And so you're like, at some point, you don't even register. And at some point, all the kids in your life register. So you start to register in a different way. And then as they get older, there's a deeper appreciation for what you do.

We're now at that point where my kids are going back and watching SLC Punk and watching these little good or bad movies in my past. It's kind of a cool gift. I was never able to go watch my parents as young people and recognize, oh, they were people and they were young once. It is kind of a neat thing that our kids have the option to do if they want it. All that to say, I love you guys so much. The love has never dissipated at all.

It really was real. When I see you in public, I'll just hug the fuck out of you. I'll declare on a microphone, I love you. Hey, Matt. I do. I see you. I love you. Dax. Yeah. I have seen you from the moment we met. Oh, wow.

And I tell you with all sincerity, I love you. Well, I feel it. You guys, thanks for doing this. Yeah. This was really fun. When you called, I was like, how fun. Let's do the 40. Let's do the 30 and the 40. I don't remember anything now. I know. We'll hear how the stories change. The same stories. How they change in 10 years. The bear will now be two bears. Exactly. And a cheetah. Exactly. All right. Well, I love you guys. Thank you. I love you. Yeah, it was good, bud.

Stick around for the fact check. Because they're human, they make lots of mistakes. I think because Lillard wore a hat. And it made you want to wear a hat? I was like, well, yeah, I guess you can wear a hat in here.

He makes the rules. Because I can't wear a hat upstairs because of headphones. Headphones. Yeah, it's like we can do so much stuff. We can wear hair in all kinds of ways. It's almost too much freedom. Too many options. Yeah. Is that your shirt on the ground? Yeah. I didn't know where to put it. Where would you have put it? Not on top of the trash can. That'd be crazy. What kind of shirt? Can't be in frame. What is it? It's my guinea tea.

My tank top. They call that a guinea tea? Yeah. Is that what it's called? It's preferable to wife beater, right? People don't love wife beater. Yeah, interesting. Yeah. So it's rebranded as guinea tea? Although I hope they know wife beater is not like celebrating wife beating.

It's just that it seems like an inordinate amount of men who did that were wearing those tops. It's not good for the guinea pigs. For Hanes? No. Yeah, for Hanes. No, no, no. But it needs a specific, to call it a tank top's not totally accurate either, right? I agree. It's so specific. David Letterman's dinner table. Yes. Yes.

I wouldn't go that far. This is our first garage fact check. Previously Black Mold Paradise. Yeah, RIP. I can't believe this was that place. I can't either. I mean, I know intellectually my drum set was right there. And yeah, I can't even really. There was a mirror there, two shitty air conditioners, water everywhere, mold growing up. Sure. Rats. It's quite a transformation. It is. It is. Impressive. It had rats and now it has mice.

I don't think there's anything anymore because I put out a lot of... No, I'm a mouse. Oh, right, right. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. God. I missed that. Where are you coming from? The dermatologist. Oh, the dermatologist. How'd that go? Well, well. Does it hurt when they give you that shot or you're used to it? I'm just so tough. High tolerance. Yeah. High pain tolerance. For people who don't know what we're talking about, you'll have to listen to next week's fact check. Next month's fact check.

Check out the December 15th fact check for the Easter egg. I wish you were watching Chimp Crazy simply because the woman in it, she's, I mean, I applaud her on some levels. She lets them film her during all of her procedures. Oh.

And she's always in there getting lip filler or spray tanning. Yeah. Traditional sun tanning booth. But she's in this massage chair at one point and she has so much numbing cream all over her lips because it just looks like there's icing on her lips, but it's caking up in corners.

And then it's falling off. And then she grabs her water and she's like, they tell you not to drink when you have this on you. And then she glug, glug, glug, glug, glug. And clearly there's numbing cream just going down her throat. Yeah. Oh, boy. Yeah. What's weird is...

You know, we're full of contradictions as we talk about on here all the time. And I'm four. I am pro. Obviously, I have chin filler. I have some Botox now. Oh, was that new too? Well, that was on the same day. Oh, okay. Was that your first round of Botox? That's the first time I've ever done anything. Your face is very alive still.

In fact, just now you raised your eyebrows. I was like, okay, well, good. We have still a lot of mobility. He gave me the, I think it's phrased as the- Placebo? No.

I think it's pronounced placebo. The like actor's dose or something. And so you still can have movement and emotion. Minimal movement. But have you seen my befores and afters? No. I'll show you. Do you think they're dramatic? Yes, I can tell. I mean, yeah, they are. Let's see. Okay.

Because I have zero ethical issue with Botox. I could care less if people use it. But I do miss the movement of some people's faces. Oh, sure. Well, this is the contradiction. I am for people doing whatever they want to make themselves happy when they look in the mirror. But I also do have some...

The reason I feel like I have to say this is now we're on camera and people saw me go when you were talking about this lady. And it's because I feel sad that she's obviously so uncomfortable with the way she looks. Oh, yeah. That she has to go –

medically changing. She's also owning a champ too. There's a lot happening with her. I know. It makes me sad. She has an enormous wig on. It's like the biggest wig. Everything's a costume and a shield and an armor. Yes. And that's that. Okay, here they are. Oh my goodness. They prepared like a whole file for you. Yeah, they did. Oh my God. I love that they made you go like that. Yeah, you have to make very specific expressions so they can- Before I get into trouble, just what sides what? Okay. I'm not going to tell you. You're sure you're confident? I'll know. Uh-huh.

If you don't know, that will be fascinating. And we need new glasses. You know what's really cute, though, is it looks to me – first of all, you look eight years old for whatever reason. Yeah.

This makes you look very young and tiny. Okay, yeah. What's cute, though, is that you're kind of, you have a little tiny smile on the right because, like, you know it's posed. That's because of my new face. Yes, exactly. Exactly. So it's like they're not apples to apples because you're like. No, I think part of it is there is a slight upturn. That's part of what they did. Okay. Yeah, I see. I see. Do you see looking at me right now that my mouth is a little upturned?

Yeah, but you just turned it up a little bit. Okay, fine. I'll be regular. This is my favorite photo. I know. I know. They really make you do some things. That was the direction in this photo. You've just smelled something very pungent. Horseshit.

Stinky salmon. Dog poop wouldn't be. You know horse shit can sometimes be sharp? Yes. Like when you're in Central Park, you're like, ooh. Yeah, it gets you. It singes your nostrils. Yeah. Okay. In this one, I'm seeing the Botox difference. That's what we're seeing. Yeah. You still scrunch your face. Again, you're just happier in this one. No, that's my new face. I know, because you're happier. No, I'm not happy. That's how my resting face is now.

It's like this. It is funny. Side by side, I can see a difference. Yeah. Just if I just bump into you, I'm not going like, what have you done? Yeah. You know what's sweet, though? You got to post these now. Oh, God. You know what's sweet is when my parents were in town and we had dinner one night, then the next day I told them that I had shin filler. I forgot to tell them. Yeah, yeah. Did you have any reservation about telling them? Did you feel like they were going to be disappointed? Like, hey, we made you. Perfect. I mean.

I didn't really care. Yeah, sure. I didn't really care. Yeah, yeah. But I was like, oh, I got this. And my dad said, I knew something was different about your face. He did. Yeah. He's like, I didn't know what it was, but I could tell something was different. Really? Yeah. And I thought that was sweet, actually. It is. He knows his baby. Yeah. We definitely notice, like sometimes night to night.

Little changes. Yeah, Lincoln will wake up and I'm like, oh my God, you look just a little bit different this morning. Yeah, that's sweet. It's really weird. It's cute. Speaking of looking different. Without a paddle. Without a paddle. Ding, ding, ding. Okay, well now's the time that I guess I was going to – I didn't know when I was going to do this, but I have a surprise for you. Oh my God, I love surprises. So I – I have a message for you. Oh, okay. Okay. Do I have to guess who the sender is?

Or it'll be so obvious. Well, that's what I'm wondering. Should I tell you now or do you want to wait? Do you want it to become... You build it. Let's build it. Okay. If you build it, it'll come. I'll come. You'll... I mean, they'll come, but it's singular. I'll come. It's C-O-M-E. I thought it was if you build it... They will come. Oh, I thought it was it will come. No, no, they. They.

The people come watch the baseball game. Oh, I've never seen it. Do you even know what it's from? Yeah, it's from Field of Dreams, but I've never seen it. Yeah, he builds a baseball field in the cornfield. But I thought it was like a metaphor. Like if you build it, it will come. Like your dreams will come true. The Field of Dreams. Yeah, sure. That's an easy mistake. Yeah, I made some mistakes. Misunderstanding. Okay, ready? Yeah.

20 years ago, we did an adventure movie. In it, we did all the adventure-y things. Rivers, rapids, guns, woods, bears, chases, fires, falls from great heights, ropes, but I swear the biggest, best adventure was getting to know old Dax, a.k.a. Dan Shepard. Shooting this shit with you was just as fun and exciting as shooting the rapids.

This should have been and would have been all plates and CG if we did it now or if I was smarter, but we just did it. You and the bear in the same frame.

And only a medium-built jet-lagged wrangler with a club stuffed in his pants to protect you. So dumb, but fun. You risked your life in pursuit of a moderately funny scene. Actually, I think it was very funny. Moderately funny. There was near-death on and off the set throughout this movie. Wild Kiwi water, God stuntman going straight down impossible rapids, and our production designer going straight down a possible staircase. But we had fun.

I actually hate when actors, directors go on and on about how we had so much fun shooting a movie like that matters. Oh, I'm so glad those rich, good looking pamper people had fun. Yeah.

I would hate for them to have been uncomfortable during that. And I'm not sure I had fun making the movie, but I sure had fun getting to know you, Dax, and Seth, a.k.a. Squire, and Matt, a.k.a. Matt. And I know I had fun watching you meet and work with Burt Reynolds. That was cool. Glad we made it out. None of your post-paddle journey and success is surprising. It just confirms what I thought 20 years ago. You are so talented, engaging, whip-smart, funny, and fucking awesome. Love you. For real.

What a sweet message. Yeah, it's nice. Oh, what a sweet message. You like that? He's such a good writer. Oh, yeah, that was fantastic. He's such a good writer. He has some emails that I have thought, like, I want to print this out and somehow keep this around in my life. What a lovely message. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

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I would say I often give Ashton so much credit for having saved me from the swamp I was drowning in. But equally so, Brill, because it was then quite another leap to take a guy from a reality show and think he should be the lead of your movie. And he fought very hard to...

uh both get me in and then also um was so good at getting things out of me and yeah yeah yeah what a lovely thing how did you get a hold of him i texted him oh did you have his number no i asked kristen for oh i hope he doesn't feel hurt he wasn't here no i just got caught up oh my god oh my gosh

Four people is too many. There is four people. I mean, regaling. Yeah. Yeah. Three was just barely juggled three. Yeah. That's right. That's right. That's more of a panel situation. I did want his voice involved. Yeah. Oh, what a sweet message. I hope you'll forward that to me. Of course. Brew was so funny. He had so many bits. He was often robot director.

What's that mean? So you would go up to him and you were very sincere. And I'd go like, Brill, if I walk over there and I'm supposed to land on that thing, I can't walk around the canoe because I'll leave frame, right? And he'll go, beep, beep, boop, boop. Boop, boop, beep, beep, boop. Baby robot director. He wasn't just a robot. He was a baby robot director. Oh, cute. And then I'd go, oh, no, baby robot director. Beep, beep, boop, boop.

Okay, so I'm just going to kind of have to guess. Beep, beep, boop, boop, boop, beep, beep. And he would never give you an answer and you just had to figure out what you had to do. That's very funny. So baby robot director was sometimes directing. Well, that's a ding, ding, ding because in our world we have a baby director and a robot. And you're right. Wow. And a robot wants to be a boy, a real boy. Wow.

That comes full circle. What was his other? Full circle. Yeah, that was a blast. Yeah, it really seemed like it. I'm glad you had that experience. I just had breakfast one night. Yeah, how was it?

It was so fun. It's my favorite medicine. We were laughing so hard at the top of our lungs in Cafe 101. Fun. I even saw some people were looking at us like, okay, guys, it's a little early for that level of screaming laughing. Yeah. You know sometimes you're laughing so hard. Well, I don't know if you have this. I'm out of air, so I'm no longer making a noise, but I still have to express. And I clap.

Yeah, like a monkey with the symbols. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah. Yeah, so there was moments where I was like laying back in the booth and I was like...

And I was just clapping like a seal. What caused that? Is there anything you can share? Boy, one's tricky. I guess if I could leave out the person. It's all about deliveries with Nate. And so we were talking about this certain person. And he's like, yeah. And I'm like, wow. So that's great that she ended up with him. And he's like, yeah, yeah. And he loves her. And I go, yeah, yeah. He loves her.

You know, he loves her. And then we just built on that for a very long time. You love to build. This is a reality. We know people, they end up together. They were lonely. They found a partner and they're doing it together. Yeah. Was it the storybook love? You know, I don't know. You know, they love you. They love you. That's okay. Oh, absolutely. There's nothing wrong with it. But of course, you're supposed to go like, oh, yeah, you know, he just loves her. He loves her.

They're good. They're great. He's a good husband. You know, you start just kind of. They're good together. They're really good together. You start keep deviating away from. Yeah. You realize that might have been not the full truth. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. We just, it doesn't take much. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's fine. He's medicine. That's good. Is that you and Kelly? I mean, she's definitely medicinal, but I wouldn't say. Who sends you into a laugh riot? Jess. Yeah. Yeah. That's the laugh medicine. Yeah.

It's powerful. Yeah. You have a good – our breakfast was one hour and 45 minutes of it was laughing really, really hard. Yeah. It's fun. And it was like, yeah, better than any drug. But I mean I obviously I love laughing but in certain relationships I don't have as much of that but they have other things. Right. Like I don't think one is better than the other. Right.

I love to laugh, but I get... It's not your number one priority. I think I used to think that. Yes, when you were an aspiring comedian and at the UCB. Yeah, but also even when I think about partnership. Uh-huh. I do think... You used to think, well, my husband would have to be hilarious. Have to be so funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I still kind of think that. I don't think I could be with someone who does not have a sense of humor.

Right. I bet you would say like the person has to get humor. Yes. It's not necessarily that they have to deliver it, but it would suck watching TV with somebody and they're not getting what's so funny about something. I'm wrong. Okay. You're, you're, you're walking it back. I'm taking it all back. Listen, he loves her. He let, you know, he like they're, you know, they're, he's, they're committed and he's a good, he's a good husband. He's a good companion. Yeah. Yeah.

No, now I'm remembering that when I had gone on a few dates with this person and he was great. Totally fine. You loved him. He was great and I couldn't really figure out what was happening with me. I mean, of course, I was like, what is wrong with me? What is wrong with me? This person's like great and nice and why? Why don't I like him?

And when I was in therapy, we had talked a lot about it. Because this is the one she gave you permission to. Well, she was like, well, tell me about the dates. Yeah. We were talking about the dates and she was like, are you laughing? Yeah. I was like, yeah, yeah. It's not serious.

But it's not funny. And she was like, yeah, well, maybe you need funny. And I was like, yeah, I think it's true that every –

Every relationship I do prioritize does have a fair amount of laughter. Yes. And I think maybe more specifically, you don't need someone who's funny, who like their outward presenting identity as a funny person. Like that's not breeze presenting first foot forward. Yeah.

But she and I had so many inside jokes. Like we did live for inside jokes and she was super funny to me. Right? Yeah. I think you want that thing. Whether they're out like whether the person at a party making jokes. No, no, no. It doesn't need to be. They don't need to be a comedian. Right. But you need to have a lot of playful. Banter. Yes. It was a ding, ding, ding because I also had it last night because Josh Lawson came over. Oh, he did. Because he's back in town working. Hmm.

He has my number. Oh, my God. Josh, listen. It makes me laugh so hard. Yeah. And there was a moment where we were... At first, we were... We were saunas. Then we're in the hot tub together. Then...

We're eating dinner with the girls and he was making the girls laugh, which is really funny because there's not a lot of adults that make them laugh really hard other than me, which is my main hobby in life. Sure. Yeah. But he was really making them laugh. And then Delta at one point and it wasn't even like presentational. It was just to me. It was an aside. And she goes, you know, I'm.

Lincoln and I were afraid if you and mom ever got divorced or you guys married different people or if you married another woman. And I think the person we should be afraid of is him. That I would leave mommy for Josh Lawson. Oh, that you would. Yes. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. And Lincoln goes, my dad doesn't laugh this much normal around people to him.

Well, that's, wow. That's a high compliment to Josh. Well, it is. And he deserves it. But then I got defensive of Aaron. I was about to say. So what about Aaron? It's literally not true. Well, yes, Aaron. Yeah, it's not true. No one laughs more than. But it was a very sweet compliment to give Josh. That is sweet. Yeah. He asked about you. I said. I'd like to see him when he's here. Anyway, what else has been going on? The anxiety still. Again, listen to December 15th's episode.

I discussed my, I've been waking up in the middle of the night with about an hour of anxiety. December 15th. Remember our fact check from six weeks. Oh, fuck. Six weeks in the future? Yeah. Last night was woke up and I had an image of what my face looked like in the close-up. Oh.

And I was like, oh my God, I got to, how do I fix this? Like I had some very specific problem areas I was seeing. I'm like, what am I going to do? I got to get some lighting underneath. I got to get nose reduction. Oh my God. Thinking about all these things. Maybe, I think maybe we're just too tight. And then I'm thinking of other people's shows. I'm like, are they as tight as we are? But this goes on for, I don't know, 75, 80 minutes. I go back to sleep for about 45 minutes. Then I wake up for the morning at six. And then I go look at the footage that I had watched right before I went to bed. Yeah.

The image I had in my head is not what it is. I'm almost 50, Monica. I know, but you're still a person. And we're all insecure.

But it just goes to show like how lopsided and irrational and non-factual my midnight ruminations are. They're like, they're so. Can you tell yourself, can you write a piece of paper on your nightstand that says whatever you're thinking right now, you will not be thinking in the morning? I said to myself last night, I said, this is going to be a very tiny problem in the morning. You already know that. It might not even be a problem in the morning.

Did it work? No. It's just one little detail of something from the day that I can't stop. Just totally powerless. You don't do much of that version of insomnia. Yeah, I do a lot of rumination. But do you wake up in the middle of the night and have it? No. I don't wake up. It's before bed. It's to get to sleep. Right. So it often takes me a very long time to get to sleep because of all the chatter. Yeah, I take a lot of sleep aids.

And so, you know, I take melatonin and I take trazodone and occasionally Aleve PM. So three. No one's going to like that. No one's going to like that. No one's going to like it. There's going to be a lot of sleep experts that are saying it's not good. Regardless, I can fall asleep pretty nicely with my book on tape. I can fall asleep within 10 minutes on that cocktail. Yeah.

And I've thought about this now. What happens is clearly those all wear off around 4 a.m. Yeah. I need like a time release of all those things or I need an intravenous setup of this that trickles it all night. I think you need to learn how and as do I to turn off our brain before bed. Yeah. Sleep through the night. Mm-hmm.

One P max. Yeah. And then wake up rested. That would be the dream. But it's ideal. And I used to be so angry at myself and hard on myself that I can't figure it out. Right. Or that I can't do all the things you just listed. Sure.

But I have been a little bit relieved by the fact that like one of my children is identical. She clearly is just genetically. And also, don't forget on the 23andMe, it did say you're someone who would struggle with sleep. Remember, that was one of the weird things that comes up. I was like, well, that's kind of a relief. I'm predisposed to be this way. But seeing it in her stopped my like self-flagellation a little bit. I'm like, yeah, you can be born as not a great sleeper. Yeah.

Yeah, but it doesn't have to be either or. It can be you have some sort of predisposition to not be able to sleep for anxiety, but you can do things to counter that. Yes, and if you have a range, you could be on the best end of the range. I concede to that for sure. So I'm in the cycle of mass caffeine all day long to compensate for the shitty night's sleep. Definitely that's part of the problem.

There's no question. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. The sleep aids are wearing off. Also, the caffeine is still in my system. It's like, you know, it's fighting. Yeah, I get that. Yeah, it's been, this has been interesting for me because I decided a while ago that once we started in the new space and things were ramping up,

that I would get really healthy. Okay. Which is an interesting time to choose to do that. Well, it makes sense. Because it's going to be harder anyways. Well, that's why. Okay. It's like, this is going to require a lot more of me. You mean you started before?

No. Getting healthy. Oh, on day one of, okay. Yeah. Because I didn't want to waste those days. I want to be unhealthy until I have to be healthy. That makes sense. Like if you know you're going to get pregnant. Yeah. Or you know you're going to get off of drinking. You know you're going to become sober. You go all out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

So I was like, this whole thing, this new life of ours is going to require a lot more of me and it's going to require more energy and more alertness. Stamina. Speaking of, I can't believe I didn't start with this on this episode. Yeah. I look.

so bad wait i look so tired and guess what i am so tired it was my birthday the night before it was sunday it was a weekend record yeah i had three martinis as we've already discussed six hours very responsible one is not enough three is too many i had three yeah and you can see it

You can see it. Well, maybe do you think you can see it? I'm not going to read the comments, but I have a feeling people will be able to see it. And that's fine. Are you tired is an incredible question to ask people. You know, that's one that's like somehow socially acceptable, but it's so. Well, this is our whole, did you get a good night's sleep last night? It's the same thing. But that was different. I defend that because that was a mood thing.

You look so tired. People feel like they're allowed to say that to other people. Like, oh, you look so tired. Like it's somehow compassionate. I know. But you go like, you mean I look like shit, right? I know. That's my mom's go-to. She says you look tired? All the time. Every time I'm home, she's like, you look tired. I'm like, okay, I am.

That might be because she just wants you to go take a nappy because she wants her baby sleeping in her house. Yeah. That could have a different. You should sleep in our house every night and I'll make you sandwiches. You're too tired to go home. So I decided to get healthy. Yeah. Which means, well, I'm going to start working out strength training. I told you that. I am not starting that for another week. Okay. Kicking that down the road. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm going to start strength training. I'm going to.

Drink less. What does that look like? I know. It's a very nebulous thing to say, drink less. I guess the easiest would be less days a week. Yeah. Right? I don't know how much you're going to be able to fine tune the amount when you're doing it.

Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Because a different version of Monica will be making decisions than the one we're sitting here with right now. Yeah, you're right. So less days, I guess. And what's the number that's not terrifying? Weekends, we got to drink. Friday and Saturday is on. Ideally, I'm not drinking alcohol.

Monday through Thursday. The Sunday we got it. I know, but okay, now with my new strength training, I have to wake up early to go do that. That's on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Okay. And then Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, I want to do my walks. This is part of my new health plan. Yeah, yeah, regime, protocol. But these are all things happening in the morning, so I have to be able to wake up. Yeah. What about...

What about Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday? That's four days a week. You think I can on Wednesday? Yeah. I think you're going to need to drink once during the week. I know. What I think would be most achievable would be start there. That's still the majority of the days you're drinking. God. And you know what's crazy? That's scary. Sounds like nothing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. Of course. So the majority of the days you're drinking. So that's great. You're drinking more than you're not.

Sure. That's the dream. And then once you're doing that for a minute, I think you lob Sunday off. I know. Because then you give yourself the best shot for starting the week on Monday. Yeah, I know. That would be. But what about like, or Sunday brunch? No, that's bad. I mean, then you're holding, I don't know. You tell me.

I mean, you're like, what about morning drinking on Sundays? What about your only drink in the morning? Oh, God. Do you think brunch drinking is akin to like shower drinking? Yeah.

Tell me about shower drinking. Like, didn't you used to drink beer in the shower? Oh, sure, sure. Yeah, to me, that's so extreme. Right. But to you, brunch is extreme? Well, no, no, no. I'm in no position to be judgmental of Sonny. I don't think you're being judgmental. I'm just asking your opinion. I do think we label things and we're pretending that it's not what it really is, which is like, yeah, I drink in the morning on Sunday.

But I call it brunch drinking, which is fun and playful. Yeah. And an event and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, an event. But it's drinking when you wake up in the morning on Sundays, which I don't care about. And then there was different rules when you'd go camping, which I loved. It was like when you go camping, you start drinking as soon as you wake up. And it's part of it. I know. It's fun. I know. You have a little bite to eat. And then you crack open a beer. And then you drink all day.

And that's bad. Well, I don't, you know. I know you're not saying it's objectively bad. You're not judging, but we are just talking about my health routine. Well, that's why I'm saying. You're talking about me. Well, I have an opinion about if you're going to do it, when should you do it? And I do think ideally it'd be Friday, Saturday, and Wednesday. Okay. But Wednesday seems hard because of the Thursday strength training. So I actually think maybe then it should be Tuesday. Okay. Okay.

Yeah, that's fine. Okay. Yeah, because then you have two days off and then two days off Wednesday, Thursday. Right. That's great. Okay, so Tuesday I'm going to get hampered. Yeah, get shit cocked. Whatever we record on Wednesdays, everyone will be able to tell. They'll be like, is this Wednesday recording? Yes. I also have a bit of self-consciousness and insecurity that people are very worried we're never going to stop talking about video. But rest assured we're going to. So you're just listening as so many people will still do.

They're like, oh my God, now when I'm listening, I got to hear them talk about video all the time. And I just want to say that I'm aware of it and we're just processing our new experience. Yeah. Do you have that fear or no? I guess I do, but I've sort of like- It's what's really going on in our lives. We've done this. This is a new thing. Yeah, yeah, right. And if we're going to do that- It's also taking up a lot of our brain space right now. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Anyway, actually, the whole reason I brought this up is because I want to be healthier, blah, blah, blah. This week is a huge week for us. We're working a ton. Yeah. And I've been working till between 9.30 and 10 since Sunday. Yes. And I've been waking up early because we've been starting early, but also- And you've had appointments throughout all this. That's why. Then I've had appointments and I've had to throw them at like the early, early top of day because there's no other time. Yeah. So I've been waking up early and-

But I'm tired at night now. Oh, so you're falling asleep. I am falling asleep. And that's interesting. It is. And it's how I a little bit counteract my panic because I have to believe the same thing I tell Lincoln, which is like your body will take care of itself. So how many hours did you get last night? Do you think it just occurred to me? People have heard about your eye roll forever.

Yeah. And they could see it now. I know. We talked about that. When? We talked about it upstairs when we were leading up to this that people are going to start seeing it. Oh. Can you do one on command? I could, but. Will you do one for me? Well, why don't you instigate one? Okay, I will. Okay. You spent way too much on those pants. Okay, I think you need to drop it in at a time where I'm not expecting it. Okay, so later at some point. Yeah, later. Okay, Easter egg. Okay.

Foreshadowing. Even though you also just said that you don't want to make this about video and now you made it completely about video. I know, but then it just occurred to me that you have a very legendary eye roll that we've talked about a million times. I'm sure people have seen it by now. How? I'm sure I've done it. I can't help it. I don't think you've eye rolled. I'm sure I have. Not your nuclear option eye roll that you gave the gal in the parking lot at the preschool. No.

There are levels to the eye roll. But you know that in theater, in my ninth grade theater class, my teacher told me, like, you have an eye roll. It's so distinct. Oh, really? And basically, like, get rid of it. Get rid of it. Because you would do it in scenes.

It's how you would express that emotion. I think so. It was coming out so involuntarily that I didn't... It's a tick. Really, it's a tick. I don't even know if it's that indicative of my feelings. Well, it is in the parking lot of the preschool. Well, sure. Yeah, yeah. Well, she was such a bitch. Right. And when people would walk away from the counter at SoulCycle, certainly... They were such a bitch. They were such a bitch and a dick, too. Yeah, they were. I don't know.

don't do it at niceness no i know i know generally it's um it's a fuck you i think it's warranted right personally i don't know how i'm gonna earn it but i guess i'll try you'll figure it out how much hours did you sleep last night i think i got like seven and a half to eight hours that's solid it is except i i work best at nine yeah and do you think you know one of my

reservations about these sleep monitoring devices is that you wake up and you get a score and i just don't know how you have a good day if your score is like 40 or you go to the gym because then you're like well probably my body doesn't want me to because i didn't get any sleep i just don't know how that doesn't become a self-fulfilling prophecy that i agree and that's an easter egg for thursday's episode because we discussed that on thursday's episode and i yes i think like

People get victim-y about when they wear these things, they're like, oh, I'm just like really bad at sleeping. Yeah. But the thing I was going to ask you about, is it similarly learning recently, this is making the rounds, that women need more sleep than men? No. That didn't have any impact on you? Because I could imagine hearing that and being like, well, Jesus Christ, now I need 10 hours of sleep? No. I felt bad when I wasn't getting eight and now I've learned my –

Sex dictates I should be getting 10. All it did was confirm what I knew. That you need more sleep. That I need at least nine hours. Okay, right, right. I can sleep till 11. Right. That's so enviable. I can just go and go and go. Yeah, yeah. Never wake up. That'd be the title of your biography. Though I do, no, remember, it's Coffee Makes Me Sleepy. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

But I do think part of that is because I don't sleep restfully. Right. So I need a little bit longer of time to make up for not sleeping very well. Yes. So if I start sleeping better, I think I will need less. Yeah, that's a good theory.

I remember being able to sleep late and I felt like my best sleep came between like 6 a.m. and 10 a.m. I know. Like I'm done wrestling with all my demons. I've processed all my anxieties and now I'm just like, oh yeah. Now you can relax. I'm not stressed anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Last thought. Okay. Maybe there'll be a technology. Probably not. But-

The dream for me would be I could hook my brain up to a machine an hour before sleep and it would accelerate all that processing that I know has to happen. Right? And then that would just be done. That's the problem. And then you could actually sleep. Update, I didn't take my... Antidepressant? Acutely last night. That's not an update. That's an Easter egg. I know, for January 6th. January 18th.

It'll be my birthday episode. I'm glad to... I'm kind of glad to hear that. Not... I mean, not... I regretted it in the middle of the night. I know. I was like, fuck, I just forgot. I didn't decide not to. I just forgot. Okay. So maybe I will in a couple hours. Okay. There's a... Brunch SSRI. There's...

Well, that's the other piece. That's the other piece. As much as I love to drink. Yeah, drinking. That sentence is bad. Look, I have to be able to say it if it's true. And it is. But also, of course you love to drink. It's fun.

I know. It just sounds. You don't like how it sounds. I don't think it sounds good. You don't like the branding. When you say the truths. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to hear the truths. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's a hard thing for all of us, I think. But I think it's important when you're struggling with anything or you're just like evaluating anything. Yeah. That's why people have pros and cons lists so they can literally see in front of them the realities. Yeah.

Let me ask you this, because that might also be more about the implicit shaming and judgment. Let me just say this. No one feels guilty saying, I love pizza. And then you go, of course you love pizza. Everyone loves pizza. And as I'm saying, like, yeah, of course you love drinking. Yeah. It's really great. If I transition from not judgmental to enabler.

Maybe. Has that happened? No, I love pizza. I love pizza is one thing. But I love pizza so much that I eat pizza every day. Or that you're like,

I'm thinking about pizza. I got to go down to eating pizza four days a week and I'm nervous about it. Yeah, that's... And can I have pizza for breakfast? The answer is yes, you can have pizza for breakfast. Cold, yeah, cold. Cold pizza is great and hot pizza is great. I don't like cold pizza, but yeah. I mean, me either, but I don't really understand that, but that's fine. Pizza in the shower. Pizza in the shower. That's a red flag. You think? But what if you're in a hurry? That's efficient. That's efficient.

But if in general you have to have a piece of pizza while you're showering. And then we're doing this thing where it's like, well, I'm fine because I don't have that weird shower thing. Equivocating. Yes. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. Justifying. I think you know when you have passed your limits and when you haven't. Yeah, yeah. I think people, if you really –

are doing an evaluation of yourself. Does the question, the one that I think is most salient is like, does it take more than it gives? Yeah. I think that's the kind of quintessential question. Now, whether people can evaluate that and answer that honestly is tricky. That's not, I think that's actually hard to evaluate. It is.

Because when you want to do it, the positives are overweighted. And all you can think about is losing those positives. And then you're not maybe remembering every little part of it that's not beneficial or the taking part. Do you think they'll ever invent a drug that after you drink, if you take it, there's like no hangover at all? Oh, right. Right.

- I mean, it seems feasible. This is my billion dollar pharmaceutical that I have invented that I don't know how to bring to market, which is the caffeine one. You take a pill at 9:00 p.m. and it metabolizes every caffeine molecule in your body.

So there's none left. Yeah, that's great. That would be incredible. If people could bang coffee like up to nine o'clock after dinner, like I would love to drink coffee after dinner. Me too. I always wonder at Italian restaurants, they always offer coffee at the end. And I don't understand how people are doing this. But when you're in Italy, have you done it? Because I cannot sleep if I drink coffee after four. And when I'm in Italy, I will have a cappuccino after a meal and then I go right to bed.

And I'm like, oh, this is all psychosomatic. And then I eat pasta the whole time I'm there and I don't have any gluten issues. And then they go, oh, it's because it's heirloom gluten and there's heirloom flour and there's no gluten in it. I'm like, maybe, maybe it's just all psychosomatic. But yeah, they got a whole, that's the power of culture. It really is. They're like, yeah, we drink a little caffeine at night, no problem.

Sometimes a baby get a diarrhea from a caffeine, but in general, it's a nothing. Oh, I thought you might get an eye roll, but I don't think you did. I know. That was a good move to try to get one. It was. I always want to get your pants so hard. Wear your pants. I can't find them. I never did know where pants begin and end on a woman. Good to see your throw up face and your eye roll face.

I don't think. Swallow up everywhere. I don't care. I like a mess. I'm messing myself. Don't tell anybody. My room's a sty. Stop. Okay. Stop. Stop it. Caffeine. Oh, the pill to metabolize alcohol. Yeah.

That would be fantastic. But in a way, because you don't want to – it can't just be a pill that metabolizes alcohol because then you'd feel really bad while that's happening. Yeah, that's the weird thing about alcohol is I do think you'd feel a little withdrawally. I think that's what a hangover is. Yeah, it is. So we'd have to invent something where it just fully negates – Well, that would be the kabillion dollar invention.

Because there's all these over there. You'll see them at gas stations like Hangover Cure. Exactly. And even those are selling and they don't do a damn thing. No, they don't. Unless they're sponsored. Unless they're good. Yeah. Is that the only downside? For me, yeah. Because there's a philosophical downside. Okay. Tell me. Which is it's a pacifier. So it allows the mundane to be exciting and novel. Yeah. Yeah.

And potentially you're not pursuing things that really are novel and growth-inducing. I mean, that's like a philosophical. I know, but growth-inducing, that's also a construct. Like what's growth-inducing for one person is not necessarily growth-inducing for another. Like I do get so much joy out of just being –

cocooned with people I love and I feel safe around. - Right, and I don't, I'm in no position to say getting around and being social and chatting is not productive or good or philosophically great.

But when I drank, my life was very repetitious. I got together with the same people. We got drunk. We talked about the same thing. We planned. It was like this vaguely overly optimistic things we're going to do in the future that we're not really going to do. And trips were planning. Parties were planning. And it was just this cycle. And it really could have just gone on forever. And even when I wasn't evaluating...

the many downsides that were clearly present, just philosophically, I was like, I felt like it was a rut.

Yeah. This is all I needed to do is I needed to pick up a 12 pack on the way to Scotty's and my night was handled. Yeah. And that's nice. It's convenient. But also I'm not putting much effort into it. And it's just the same thing over and over again. And I would like to, I'd like to get bored with a group of five people and figure out what we're going to fucking do. And maybe let's go drive go karts next time. And let's do this thing. And I just, when I reflect on my life, I'm personally, it's not for everyone. Yeah.

I the story of my life that involves having done a bunch of activities and tried new things and gone places is more satisfying to me than sitting in someone's living room or sitting in the same bar and having the same conversation 10,000 times. Right. Over the course of a lifetime from the story I'm telling about myself. Yeah. Like wreckage aside. Yeah. I understand that. Yeah. I just remember thinking.

As I approach 30, like, well, we've done this. We've done this for a decade. We've gone out and gotten drunk. And is that that? Is that what I'm going to now repeat for the next five decades? Yeah. Like a lot of people. And I kind of want more than that. Yeah. Yeah.

But let me ask you this. Let's say every day after work, I go and I hang out with people, same people, let's say. Same people every day and we have drinks and we chit chat. Yeah. Come in. And then I go home. Yeah. What, like, and I mean really like philosophically, what's the difference between...

We finish work. You go into your house with the same people. You go sauna like you do every day with the same person. Yeah.

And that period of time takes up the equivalent amount of time that I'm doing. Like we're all doing the same thing over and over again. But you are illuminating the challenge of marriage, which is it is so easy for it to be just that. And you have to kind of actively... Like, yes, right now we're sauna, but if you rewind a year and a half ago before that, it was another thing. And before that, it was another thing. Because you do tire of repetition if booze isn't involved. Like even...

If we're on vacation with the Richardsons, we can play spades and hang and chat for four nights in a row. But we're going to have to do something else. We're going to have to go find a sauna and then we're going to have to go on a sightseeing thing. We're going to have to. If we just drank, we would be able to just get to our hotel. We'd go out for drinks in the evening and then we'd have dinner and that would be it. But we get bored after a few days of just playing spades or just doing this.

And I, and this family gets bored. It's like, well, at least let's go to Bob's Big Boy and look at old car night before we have dinner. We're not gonna eat at Cafe 101 every single night. It does get boring without alcohol in the mix. And we do have to change a lot. And we've had a bazillion different little patterns and hobbies. But I was in one that was 10 years long when I drank.

With very little difference. Yeah. The bars would change. Right. You know. There were years where every night the three of us or the four of us would hang out and play the same game or watch. The TV show would change, but we would watch movies and TV shows. And TV's booze for sure.

Like TV is booze. I love it. I use it just like booze. I know how I'm going to feel when I watch it, if it's good. And it's going to be two hours. It handles that two hours after bed, you know, the girl's bedtime before mine. And even that I'll go like, okay, we've been watching TV for 13 days straight. It's time to mix it up. But I never was like, we need to mix it up when I drank. Right. As long as we, I had a 12 pack. Like I didn't really, you know, I was fine.

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Well, let's do some facties. There's not too many. Oh, I really loved his idea of coffee and clips. I thought that was such a cute game. Can you guess what I? I wanted to ask. Okay. Raising Arizona. That's a great guess. It wasn't Raising Arizona. Okay. It was Heat. Really? Not much closer. Okay. Same director.

Um, it was, you probably have just forgotten the name of my favorite movie of all time that I watched again, back to being drunk that I watched every night. I was drunk, not roadhouse thief, thief. That's Michael Mann's thief. Okay. So I brought thief and I showed him the opening sequences, which is my favorite. Okay. Him cracking into a safe.

in committing a robbery. And it's so cool and stylized. What did you say why it was important to you? I can't remember. Even when, as he was describing,

describing how it worked. I do remember I had to like talk about it for a couple minutes, but I can't remember what my take was. I don't know if I admitted like I used to watch this movie addictively. I think I talked about that was the first time and it created a whole genre. Prior to Thief and Miami Vice, there weren't these elongated montages done to really cool music. They were almost the precursor of music videos.

Where like the music was at the front and center of this sequence. The sequence was designed around the music. Yeah. And it was very surreal. It like gave birth to this really cool, surreal feeling that was even like movies were already a dream. And then this was even a dream beyond that. It was like a surreal, you know.

I think people can relate to that, wishing there was theme music when they walked around. Like when you're walking down the street and you're feeling it and you want a certain song to be playing, it was that feeling. And it was the first time I ever saw it. And I was like, oh, this is so cool and surreal. And I want to live in this montage. I wish life was this montage. Yeah, I get that. That's cool. What would you have played? Episode of Friends? Yes. No. It's not your fault. Yeah. It's not my fault.

It's not your fault. It's not your fault. Yeah. That would have been. In that exact scene. Good Will Hunting. That scene, yeah. Or. Oh, flag on the plate. Or the scene between Ben and Matt. Ben is telling Matt, like, don't squander this and all I want is to show up to your apartment one day and you not be there. Yeah. Sweet. That's a great scene. Very sweet. Self-sacrifice. Gift from the Magi. We're not gossipy.

We try to really not be gossipy. Yeah. But it would also seem crazy to not check in with how you feel about Matt, or rather Ben getting divorced. I feel really sad for them. No excitement that he's available? No. Okay. You really love him. It's like the speech in the movie. You're like, as much as I want to come here and pick you up for dinner, I want to come here and have you tell me, you must leave. I'm married. That's right. That's right. No, I just feel like

It must suck so much to have all eyes on you over and over again while you're going through your shit. All I have thought is like, I largely think paparazzi have gone away. And when I see things pop up, by the way, it just finds you this information and clips. And I'm on Instagram. It's like, I'm seeing video of Ben walking from his car somewhere constantly. Right.

And I'm just, when I see that selfishly, I'm like, I am so fucking glad I don't get filmed everywhere I go. I would, oh my God. But fuck, that's still a thing where everywhere he drives, presumably there's six or seven cars following him and he's going to act kind of normal.

And then he doesn't, and then people are like, he's an asshole, or he has a resting bitch face, whatever. It's like, duh. Yeah, because there's seven men who you have no control. You have no recourse. There's nothing you can do. Yeah. Because they would just deal with these six guys shouting shit at you. Oh. I know. Very triggering. Yeah. And-

And I don't know him as much. I hate to admit that, but I don't know him. I mean, you know his soul. I do. In his spirit. I know his heart. Yeah. But I don't know- You know the real him. Yes, but I have a sense he's sort of like you, and I imagine it's probably extra hard for him to let some of this go. Yeah. Like being followed. I bet he's-

battling not to fight these guys with every bit of willpower he has. And then also then trying to tell your face not to telegraph that. Yeah. And in general, I just think it's sad if a relationship doesn't work out. Yeah. Okay. You mentioned pee, the drug pee. Uh-oh.

I would love if a riding lawnmower just crashed through the garage door right now and drove into frame and then did a 360. Oh, God. Sound could be better in here. Oh, that's nice. You said you talked about pee, the drug. Oh, yes. It is meth. Yes.

I confirmed that. Okay, great. You looked it up. Where was it at? What website tells you the Kiwi name for meth? I knew it was meth for sure. Yeah, if you type in New Zealand street drug P, methamphetamine comes up immediately. And did you just put the letter P or P-E-E or P-E-A? I just did letter P. Nice. And it is that according to this. Speed, pure, P. Oh, pure. Burn, gooey, cranky.

And he was saying crank. Seth was. Squire was. Yeah, that was the most popular name for meth in the late 90s, early 2000s. Yeah, okay. In California. By the way, I think I've said this before. That drug was, there was no such thing as that drug in Michigan. Meth? Meth. We did not have meth. Really? No. When I left in 95. Huh. I left in 94, got here in 95. As soon as I got here, everyone did meth.

It's always been huge on the West Coast. Yes. And it wasn't a thing in Michigan. When I brought it back-

a couple different times to Michigan. And people were like, what is it? I've heard of this. I'm like, yeah, they have this stuff. It's kind of like Coke, but way cheaper and way worse. Oh my God. It's like fashion, how it starts on the coast and then makes its way. Yeah. Something to do with the biker gangs and the proximity to Mexico, whatever. It was just huge on the West Coast. Okay. Gooey, crank, meth, crystal, ice, and yaba. In Hawaii, it's ice. So

So I've bought in this locally in enough places that I've had to use. I had to be respectful of the local culture and ask if anyone knew where to get ice. If I would have been in Hawaii and asked for pee, they would have been like, what the fuck is this? This guy's a narc. Oh, God. You got to make sure no one thinks you're a narc. Okay. Tom Arnold's book title is? How I Lost Seven Pounds in Eight Years. It is How I Lost Five Pounds in Six Years. Okay.

It's still the best title ever. That's a great title. We talked about Friday Night, I'm sorry, Five Nights at Freddy's, which was the movie that Matt was in that was huge. Oh, yeah. I was ashamed I didn't know what that was. I had heard of it from the youth. Okay. The video game was released in 2014. Okay. So it's a movie based on a video game. But he plays Voldemort. What? Yeah. Wait, what? No. Really? Yeah. Yeah.

This is the one that he's just filmed the sequel to up in Toronto? I don't know. Are we talking about the same movie? No, I don't think so. Maybe. Hold on. Yeah, he's in a movie that just did like $300 million. Yeah, that's this. Yeah, he plays Voldemort. Wait. You better look up cast and see what it says. I am. Are you allowed to say it? Yeah, we say things here. We don't keep things quiet.

And Harry says Voldemort. We don't believe in not saying, well, we do believe in not saying words that are offensive, but we. Unless they're towards white people. Again, guinea tea. I have my guinea tea here ready to work out in. Okay. Matthew Lillard, Five Nights at Freddy's. No, he plays William Afton.

So he plays two characters, it looks like. Tough acting to enact? It says, American actor and film director who portrays William Afton in The Five Nights at Freddy's film.

I mean, it seems like... Do you think maybe he was telling me he plays like a Voldemort character? Probably. Probably. Okay. Because I did think, what is the intellectual properties? Yeah, that would be insane. Yeah. I just think he's the villain. Also Steve Raglin. Okay. He also plays Steve Raglin, a.k.a. Voldemort? No. Do you remember quiz, pop quiz, do you know Voldemort's real name?

Harry Raglin? What was that? Tom Riddle. Oh, I do know that. Yeah. And he's, is he Terrence's dad? No. Uncle? He's Voldemort. Right. Well, there is a, there's like, they're connected, you know, but they're not, no. His mom's brothers? No. They're just connected spiritually. But his dad is James and his mom is Lily. You need to reread. Yeah.

Okay. Now... For whatever reason, my retention of that material is low. I have gone through the books. It is interesting because you generally have a high retention. For nonfiction. Oh, yeah. Okay. I think my mind's like, this is fake. I'm not going to use the hard drive space for something that's fake. Wow. Fake is all relative. Everything's fake. Okay. Oh, wait. Say that again. Fake is all relative. Everything's fake. Okay.

That was my setup for an eye roll. Yeah, that wasn't very good. It was my first time. It wasn't very good. I think that might have been my first time. Can you do it again? Yeah. That was better. It was quicker. Yeah. I milked the first one, didn't I? Well, also- I was like, I went around the moon. You didn't even, no, you went up and then you just moved your head. That's how you do it. The eye itself has to move. Yeah.

No, it's like this. It's like. Take three. Tell me that everything's fake. Oh, that was nice. Yeah. See, the eye itself moves, not your head. And you did like 270. Oh. All right. Now say it one last time. Third take. Okay. Everything's fake. I mean, really, everything's fake. Okay. It's pretty powerful. You should try to work that into your repertoire. Your arsenal of nonverbal insults. Just throw my neck out.

Okay. Is the Burt Reynolds going over the railing slash wood pile stunt in the movie? I don't know because I didn't rewatch it. Right. And I didn't know to look for it. It was big enough of you to watch it the first time. I was excited to watch it. Okay. Yeah.

So the people can tell us. How embarrassed were you for me 0 to 10? Please be honest. On watching it? I can handle it, yeah. I wasn't embarrassed for you at all. You weren't. No. And that's sort of what I was telling you when I was expecting. To be very embarrassed. Not to be embarrassed, but to feel like it's going to be really different than what I'm used to. Yeah, than parenthood. Exactly. Yeah. But yeah.

But no, that's why I was sort of surprised when you were very much the same. Except, look, I will give you that it's you at a 10. Forced.

A little more forced, not as much as I think you saw. Right, okay, yeah. I don't think most people would think that, but I do know your sweet spot. Yeah, yeah. And it did feel a little- It was redlining, as we'd say in racing. Oh, what's that? Yeah.

Well, on your tachometer, you have like an ideal range that the motor is supposed to rotate in the engine. And after a certain point, it starts rotating. It's not making more power. And now it's getting in jeopardy of exploding. I see. So I was like, I was definitely redlined. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But it was still funny. Like it wasn't like, oh, that's not funny. Well, except for the.

You're not going to like this because I did take a shower in the middle and I was sort of in an – Oh, God. So I think maybe I missed – You took a shower in the middle. Well, I had to shower. We were recording. Oh, God.

We were recording and it was after my birthday. How long was your shower? Like 45, 50 minutes? I did a hair mask. 90 minutes? No, no, no. I don't think I missed a lot, but I was a little in and out. Okay. So you missed that part. I missed it. And I think that was my dad. He gave us that. The only problem is that part does happen in one of the funner parts of the movie, which is we're running from bad guys. Right.

This marijuana field has caught on fire. So we're running as fast as we can and we're inhaling tons of weed. And we're running, running, running. And then all of a sudden we're laughing, laughing, laughing. And that's a very funny idea. That is a very funny idea. I'll watch it again. No, that wasn't. I'll forward to that scene and I'll make sure to watch that one. Well, but don't watch the beginning of the scene. I'm going to watch it. But that's it. All right. Well, that was a very heartwarming episode.

episode for me. Yeah, that was lovely. I'm glad we did that. And you know, when I was editing it, I was like, oh, this is like commentary. DVD commentary. DVD commentary, which I used to love so much. And I don't remember if we did

I have a DVD copy, obviously, of the movie. I wonder if there is a commentary. I know that Kutcher and I did a commentary on like eight hours of Punk'd or whatever, eight episodes. Not a smart idea. Because you were on drugs. No, I wasn't. It's just, you're just riffing for hours. You're saying a lot of stuff. And no one's protecting you. Oh, God.

And you're trying to make each other laugh and then you're forgetting your – I mean, again, there's no podcast Batman. And it was a different time also. It was a totally different time. Like I've not gone back to listen to that nor would I ever. But I can't imagine that that aged well. I see. OK. Let's not – We're probably talking –

Like two horny 20-year-olds at times. Yeah, and which was your identity at the time. In fact, we were quite horny. Yeah. We shared that in common. Sure, sure, sure. I think maybe don't go back. No, totally. Guys, all of us, we don't need to do that. Just keep going forward. Yeah, that's right. Let's just keep it moving. Time to go back goes forward. Don't run from the pain, run toward it. You love, there it is. I did it for you. Jay-Z lyric and it was match. I did it for you. All right. I love you. Love you.

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