Kirby
02:15:29 Share

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. This is Dax. I'm joined by Padman. Is that the one you're going with? Oh, I, oh. I thought you were going down to one, one name. I am. I guess you're right. I should go by Padman because there's already another Monica, the singer, who goes just by Monica. Oh, really? Yeah, so unfortunately I have to go by Padman. Padman's cooler. It's pretty cool. It's solid. It's pretty cool.

We're saying that, of course, because our friend Kirby is here. Kirby is an actor. I think maybe Kristen first met her on House of Lies. Really? I think that's where. Or Veronica Mars?

No, I think it was, I think the order was House of Lies then. But I could be wrong. But then Good Place, then Veronica Mars. Lots of crossover. Then Queen Pins, ding, ding, ding. A lot of people have seen Queen Pins. Kirby was also in Why Women Kill, The Sandman, Killing Eve, Cruella.

And currently she is in Sugar on Apple TV Plus. And she's our favorite. She's so cool. She's the coolest. She is the coolest. She's cool guy all the way. All day, all night. And then sexy boy. Wait.

Sexy man. Sexy man. She's also a sexy man. And then best boy. And then best boy. And just barely any best boy. She doesn't have much best boy. No, she don't need it. She's bad to the bone. Please enjoy Kirby.

We are supported by Ollie. I love Ollie. I use their sleep gummies. They're so good. I don't sleep well. Yeah, me either. But can I tell you something? They're so good that I look forward to eating them. I know. They're like a treat. They're a treat right before bed. I can't tell you how much I like them. During the back to school season, Ollie's got us covered.

Ollie Sleep Gummies can help the family get the rest they need. Their probiotics can keep gut health in check. And their Hello Happy and Goodbye Stress Gummies can lift the mood. Buy three and get one free with code BUNDLE24 at ollie.com. That's O-L-L-Y dot com.

We are supported by Wayfair. When I get home from vacation, the first thing I like to do is lay in my own bed with my own pillows and my own sheets. There's nothing like your own bed. No, I love it so much. Coming home to your space is one of the best feelings after a long trip, especially when you use Wayfair to make it exactly the way you want. They make it so easy to use.

They make it easy to create and transform any room into a relaxing oasis. You know, my stand mixer is from Wayfair. My KitchenAid stand mixer. Which I just saw and is gorgeous. It's gorgeous and I use it so much to make cookies. We're also using Wayfair to decorate the...

the new video recording space. That's right. We have some pieces. We're heavily entrenched with Wayfair right now. Whatever you're into, whatever budget you have, Wayfair is the go-to destination for everything home. And I mean everything from appliances to area rugs, beds, wall art, lamps, and more. They

They have something for every room. It's good to come home when you live in the Waverhood. Visit Wayfair.com or download the Wayfair app. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com. Wayfair. Every style, every home. He's an upchair expert. He's an upchair expert. He's an upchair expert. Come in! Come in!

- Yeah, I'm on in. - It smells lovely in here. - Oh good, sometimes it smells terrible like food. - You know what, can I say something? I almost expected it to not smell good. - Oh sure, yeah. - It smells great in here. - It's a grody attic. - You know what, that's what you always say though, but actually it's lovely in here. I feel terrible. You know when you have this really intricate moment, but it means something. Just now, Rob, when you were letting Amy Poehler out, I was coming in and she waved and then,

I didn't, you know, like I was, my brain was, yeah, I was also thinking about the baby and whatever. And then I looked away and then, you know, you go to wave back but they're not looking anymore. And now I'm like, it's one of those things that you think about that,

that the other person doesn't think about at all. I try to tell my mum that a lot 'cause she takes things really personally. That person, what are they looking at? And I'm like, most of the time, people are not ever thinking about you. Like that, I'm like in my brain thinking, where should I park 'cause of the baby and I know Christmas coming up. Like that's my thought and so then you don't see a wave.

Yeah. So my sister-in-law has this incredible hack, which is she works at a retail clothing store or has in the past, manages one, and she'll be helping someone find a blouse. And the person will be on their fourth or fifth option that she brings to them. And when they're still on the inside of the changing room and they can't see her, they'll be saying like, I just don't know if I look good in red or whatever. And she'll say, do you know what color shirt I'm wearing?

Now she's just helped them five times and has been dealing with them for half hour. Yeah. And most times they'll go, oh my God, I'm so embarrassed I don't. Yeah. I only say that to show no one's really thinking about what anyone else is doing. No, they're 100% not. Yeah. That would so be me. I'd go, oh boy. Blue, I would pick a high percentage. Yeah. Yeah.

I wonder what is the highest percent, black probably, of people wearing right now. In the country, the highest percentage is probably black. Black. But you know what I've noticed? There's a real neutrals trend happening right now, isn't it? Everyone's wearing like sandy colors. I love sand. You do? Yeah. I enjoy it when it's done well. It's not,

My default. Black is my default. But you also rock color like crazy. Yeah, you do. I do love color. I think this is a gift of you guys being brown. Yeah, it is a gift. If a white guy wears a bright red suit, it's nuts. It begs a question. Well, or a little like, how much attention do you need? Yeah, how much attention do you need? Or also like, that's a bold choice. It feels like you're going for best or worst dress. Whereas I think if you have like dark skin and you're wearing color, it's just, this looks good.

- It looks good. - No, it does, it does. - Yeah, yeah. I do love wearing a nice little color pop. - Yeah, when you go on, I just watched three in a row, you on Kimmel. - Oh, yeah. - And you let it rip, style-wise. - I did let it rip. - What'd you wear? - The first one was a really outrageous red outfit with your girlfriend. - Yes, I did a red suit, and that's when I cut my hair and went crazy and dyed it blonde. - You know what's funny is I'm thinking of a different red outfit, but yes, you had a red suit. - The pink and red outfit,

That's my favorite one. That's one of my favorite things I've ever worn. That's my favorite look on you. I've only known you for a short period and I've gotten to see you in like 20, 30 hairstyles. You see so many hairstyles.

Should we shout out the brand? Yes, I was going to say, Wiedehoft is the suit. I think they're an incredible brand. That's one of my favorite things I've ever, ever, ever worn. I'd love to wear more of their stuff. And then my hair was done by Erin Courtney. She's a really incredible braider. That makeup was Brandy Allen. Where do you find the braider? Is this in the common stew of hair people on sets? No, this is certainly not. So this braider...

I saw her because Willow Smith had really great braids. She tagged this braid at Erin and then that's how I found her. It's great, but then every time I want to delete Instagram, I'm like, oh, that's what keeps it. It's a resource. It's a resource. It really is. And for things like that, it's so easy to find someone and see their work. You do discover people. Can we do five on Willow? What do you mean? What's five? Five minutes. But maybe even less. Like chat for five minutes on Willow? Oh, absolutely. Can we do five? Is that?

terrible that i didn't know what i was you've done your research and i haven't let's talk about it i think she's fantastic i don't think that's like a common term a colloquial american thing i think that probably sounded weird to everyone i'm kind of newly in a rabbit hole of hers okay yeah and funny enough ding ding ding for you and i we were driving through the mountains of tennessee together and i was playing my favorite songs yeah and only one really hopped out at you that i know of and it was hiatus coyote

Is that Willow Smith? No. Okay. But you were like, what the fuck is this? I've never heard this. I felt flattered and validated that you liked one of my songs. Oh, great. And I just listened to her new music, Willow, and it's very hiatus, Coyote. Okay, so now I need to go back and see, because I do this, I'm like, I love that song, and then I don't write it down or add it to a playlist. I didn't think I texted it to you. I went that far. You don't need to look at that. It's really embarrassing. What kind of show?

- For all of us. - Okay, well I am gonna go back to Hiatus Coyote. I'm gonna have to say it like four times. I'll have to get you to text me again. Willow Smith, I think she's fantastic. I think she's so out of this world alien child, very cool. - And that face is really something to study. - Insane. - Because it's Will Smith. I mean, she looks so much like Will Smith, but she's so beautiful like Jada. - So beautiful, yeah. - It's pretty wild, you know, if you ever ask yourself, like, "I wonder what Will Smith would look like as a beautiful lady?" And it's been answered. - Yeah, but do you think he would? I don't know.

He would look exactly like that. Oh, no. I mean, it's almost, but I know what you mean. That's the funny thing, actually, because I feel like this about Romeo Beckham. Romeo Beckham has Victoria Beckham's face. And even though David Beckham is obviously beautiful, but that's what makes him beautiful. Hmm.

So were you already hip to Beckham? Like we watched the doc, Monica and I, and we became obsessed with Beckham. Me maybe more than her. Oh, wow. Okay, sorry. I just looked up Willow Smith and I implore everyone right now who's listening to look her up currently because I haven't seen her in a minute. And you're right. She does look a lot like Will. Yeah. It's so fucking beautiful. So beautiful. She is stunning. And then also I want those teeth she has. Did you have a jewel on your tooth for a minute? Was that ever a phase you had? No.

No, it feels like something I would have done. Oh, for sure. I feel like maybe you're right. I'm inclined to be like, Dax, no. Don't say that. No, but that does feel like.

I feel like I did the same thing with the hairstyle. I also love the outward expression of yourself. And I'm like a jewel tooth because I spent a very long time trying to find a good grill for a while. You know, my mum used to have a gold tooth and I thought it was the coolest thing. I didn't realise the stigma that came with having a gold tooth. One, just in general and two, as a black woman, essentially people think, well, we were poor. I think people look down on you. I don't know

it's the same here it's seen in england i feel like it's kind of trashy kind of a little like poor ghetto rich exactly yes yes you put your money in your mouth literally that's what it's seen as but i always just thought my mom was the coolest like she had this gold tooth and she had another one then she kind of i think just grew out of it and got rid of it so she was funky as well because you're fun oh my mom's crazy funky i gotta show you a picture do you want to see a picture yeah this is my mom's shirt she gave it to me okay i didn't know this about you

I'm going so fast. But what's fun about this is you and I have known each other now for a few years and I don't know any of this information I'm about to find out. But she owned clothing stalls. Is that accurate? She still has a stall, which I sometimes work at when I go back to London. It's the funniest thing. I've actually a couple of times been recognized. People will be like, are you

And I'm like, yeah, but today I'm just working. I'm just my mom's daughter. Just my mom's daughter. It's in Camden? So she used to do Camden, well, it was the ballroom. So the ballroom is like a big club in Camden, punk kind of grunge, you know, like those big two level massive clubs. And on a Sunday during the day, it would be a market. So everyone would come in and sell. And so my mom used to do a store there and she brought me there. So I kind of grew up in the market. Wow.

My best friend lived in the flats opposite, so sometimes they would babysit and we'd hang out. The flats in Camden, they're now above the church, but people would know, like above the Sainsbury's, there's a block of flats. This is deep cut for the Brits, they'll know that. Or Londoners, I guess, not Brits in general. Yeah, the people in Essex might be. Yeah, yeah. And also people say that a lot of Londoners think that England stops at the top of the M5. We all think that too. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You're like, what's the rest of it? No, when I see like English hillbillies and stuff or English white trash, I'm like, where'd these folks come from? Yeah.

I thought everyone was in a top hat and like educated. Like there's a fair amount of fucking hicks in England. 100%. It's like here, but it's smaller. We just have less space for everyone. I love that you grew up in a market. That's my dream. Really? Well, Monica loves malls. I love malls. I love shopping. Oh, you would love it. She still does markets. She does Earlham Street. That's in the West End. And she does Brick Lane. And that's in East London. And where does she pull all the clothes that she ends up selling? From everywhere. So sometimes she makes stuff.

Then she gets them from different people. Like she's done it my whole life. She customizes a lot of stuff. It's like handmade. Is that the only job she ever had when you were growing up? I should supplement it. So when I was really young, maybe one to four or something, she had a shop in Charlton Street. And then she did these markets on the weekends and then had tons of other jobs. She's always had two or three jobs at once. She's a single mom as well with two of us. This is her passion. And as she's gotten older, she's found a way. And obviously...

her kids are now financially independent, so she doesn't need as much. So the main thing is doing the markets. Do you ever try to give her money and how does that go? I do, but sometimes now I got her bank details, I'll just drop it in her bank account. Okay, that's cleaner. Yeah, it's much cleaner. She might even be able to fool herself into thinking she just forgot she had more than she needed. She's like, wow, my market. I'm doing really well.

Well, you know, the funny thing about my mom is that she is incredible and deserves the world, but doesn't really think she does. It's such a funny thing. Even just going out for a nice meal, my mom's like, oh my God, this much for food? And her thing is, she always goes like, I could make this at home, which she couldn't. No, she didn't have any prior. Exactly.

He doesn't have any of those ingredients. It was that clay pot they cook in in the Indian restaurants. Oh, yeah. The tandoori oven. Yeah. You don't have a tandoori oven. Yeah. Like we went to Din Tai. She's like, I can make this. It's like, Mom, you've never even heard of these spices. Exactly. You wouldn't know a Szechuan pepper for eight years. You didn't learn to speak Mandarin before you even started this. Yeah. That's funny.

That's a generational thing. So I just drop it in. I think it's generational. This kind of like, I don't need anything. No fuss. What's her story? How long had your family been in England? So my mom, okay, so let me just. Yeah, you handle this first. Yeah, you handle it. Should I handle the picture first? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. The funny thing is.

The funny thing is, she was in one of the People. You know, it has like People and then albums. Oh, I thought you were saying she was in People magazine. No, imagine. She would die. I mean, she's going to probably hate that I even spoke about her. Very private. She thinks you're tapping her phone right now. Is she going to listen to this? If I direct her to the link, she might listen to it. But if I don't, she won't necessarily find it because you're not on YouTube. If you're on YouTube, she'd find you in a heartbeat. You'd be dead, yeah. God, my mom too.

This is my mom. Text it to me. Oh, text it to you. Okay, yeah. I want to hold her. Okay, please. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Dax loves moms and dads. I do love moms and dads. You're right. Okay.

Okay, yeah. I'm going to text you a couple. I'm going to sink my teeth in. Apparently we look alike, but I don't know any... Oh, that's fun. That'll be a fun game to see if we think so. Yeah, she's totally rad. You'll never see her like not in a hat. Oh, yeah. She looks awesome. Yeah, she looks awesome. And she's eating a dish she could never cook. She's eating like an enchilada or something. She loves them. Listen, I find...

I discovered Mexican food. We don't have like a lot of Mexican food in England. My mom has discovered Mexican food in her late 50s and she's like, I love this dish. What is this? Off to the races. She can't get enough of it. Yeah, she's really funky. Where do you think she got the confidence for that? Let me send you one more picture. This is like four generations of women. It's my nan, my mom, me and my niece. My nan passed away in 2020. So you say, where did she get the confidence? My mom is an Aries, which I don't know how much that means to you.

Means a lot to Monica. We like this. Can you give us what the traits are? So I say this because I'm not a big star sign person. I know my own and I'll know specific people's, but you know, people go, well, what are the, they're rising. I don't know all of that. But the traits I know of an Aries are very strong-willed, very independent. Those are the most I know. Can make most dishes. Can make every dish. She can taste it, she can make it. Have 10 spices, but can make every dish.

I'm an Aries, right? Let me tell you some of her traits and you tell me if these also are Aries. She's incredibly creative, kind of a creative savant. If she cared for social media or publicizing herself more, she could do amazing things, could have things on red carpet. Like she's incredibly creative, but marches to the beat of her own drum. Doesn't read instructions, will put that table together. She doesn't want to follow rules ever. Doesn't want to ever be instructed how to do something. Never. You know what she hated? When I brought her to sex.

What happened? She just hates the rules of it. The being quiet and how boring it is. Everything goes over and over and over. Yeah, monotony. Like, she just... Like, get on with it. Yeah. And I'm going to talk between action and cut. I don't care. They're talking. Yes.

Also, like, who made those clothes? I could do that. Also, it's generally like a PA telling your mom to be quiet. So it's like a 22-year-old. That's got to compound it a little bit. Also, my mom doesn't like fuss, right? And if you bring your mom to set, different if you're someone else, but if you're an actor, it's so much fuss. Every minute they would knock on the door like, do you need anything? She's like, just leave me alone. Fuck off. And then they're checking your wardrobe and your hair and your makeup. She hated all of that. She's like, people just keep coming in the room. I'm like, well, yeah. I love that she hated it.

That's my job. That's my job. So a little stubborn. Very stubborn. She's beautiful. Oh, can I see the forging? Yeah, yeah. I just want to say one thing before I hand this over.

For the listeners, so all four generations are on a couch and everyone's smiling. Everyone has been instructed or intuitively knows to give the peace sign. But Nan is like doing the Girl Scouts Pledge of Allegiance. Her fingers are together. Yes, yes, yes. So this was when my mom learned deuces. So this was my mom orchestrating. Obviously, my niece knows. She's a child. She knows. What's deuces? It's like,

piece like deuces like two you know but in England you might say deuces no I think here too here I think she got it from YouTube my mom loves American TV drama all of that you know what she loves is when I was younger my mom would always read the Inquirer magazine you know Inquirer it's just garbage right I just told Monica yesterday the commercial used to be Inquiring Minds Wanna Know

- Is that what it was? - It was like posing as like some kind of legitimate information that you would be an inquiring mind. Like it's a compliment. No, you're a gossipy, you're trash. - Gossip hungry trash. - It's just a trashy people wanna know. - So my mom always would read that at the markets 'cause also you can't get into a book 'cause you have customers coming up all the time. And for some reason,

That was her guilty pleasure that was like, escape. And what that has translated into now is YouTube video blogs. Does she watch any psychics on YouTube? No psychics, but she can tell you everything. She watches Fox Soul. She watches this blogger. She'll be like, oh, did you hear what happened with Krishan Rock and Blueface? I don't know any of this. I've never been into celebrity culture. I never had posters on my wall of celebrities. Now, if you ask me someone's name, I don't know. That was never my thing.

We're going to earmark that. March on, march on. So very funny that my mom knows all of that. Are you embarrassed by it? Because if my mother was doing this, I would go, mother, what the fuck are you doing? That's what I do. Sometimes I do get to my limit. For the most part, she'll call me or even more so because now my partner's American and we have an American family. Soon as she comes in, she's like, have you heard? That's not like talking about the weather. She'll lead with that. Do you think it's so-and-so's baby? Yeah, 100%. She knows all that stuff. She's loving the ditties. She knows everything.

about it. Yeah, so does mine. Really? Your parents are into it too? No, my mom specifically knows everything about it and she is saying it and I'm like, why do you know this? Yes. And she was following Johnny Depp. I was going to say, Jack, you were right when you said that because I'm like, this is a person my mom's into.

Okay, Johnny Depp. Her mother was following. She didn't miss one second of that court case. She knew everything. And I got mad at her. I was like, I'm telling you, you shouldn't care about this. Yeah, yeah. After a while, I'm like, Mom, it's just negativity. Like, it's just purely feeding on. It's the most negative, mind-numbing garbage. And she'll be like, I'm just going to put on my shows. I know it's trash. But then when you're having conversations with me about it. It's infiltrating. Do you not?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And do you know that it is just trash? Because you're talking to me about it. And you know what? I find, I said to my mom the other day because she was at my house and if you're here, watch whatever you want. I don't care. But then, of course, I might be cooking and so I'm absorbing it. And I said to her the next day, I said, Mom, I think I've got like a trash TV hangover. I've got,

all this negative information in my brain i've got nothing i can do with it it means nothing i just know people's dirty laundry i'm glad you're telling me all this because it does answer the question like that used to be an enormous industry all those terrible magazines they've gone away i've been thinking like well people didn't just stop getting interested in it what's the outlet now and i guess it's this it's youtube and then obviously like instagram i think people are more interested in tick tock than they've ever been i've subscribed to this fantasy that instagram kind of

is what neutralized it, which is like, you don't have to catch me out on the street. I'm going to show you a picture of myself. Yeah. But maybe not. You know, like the Andy Warhol quote, like in the future, everyone will have their 15 minutes of fame. And that is obviously Instagram and TikTok. It neutralizes it in terms of the concentration of the base, right? A base would be down here, but I guess I'm doing it at the top. The concentration of celebrity and fame was here before. And now,

Everyone else had to climb to that. Whatever information you could give us, please, we're hungry gods of fame, give it to us. And now, I guess it's more passed out. Well, they're disseminating it themselves. Like, Kristen and I used to hate getting followed by the paparazzi. But I'm totally comfortable sharing my life with you as long as I get to select the picture. Yes. And I just feel like celebrities now feed that machine themselves. Yeah. Which is great.

Celebrity means less now because of Instagram, because people are their own brand. Influencers now are celebrities. Yes. I've been on like a thousand shows. Back in the day, you would be a known person. But now it's like, well, some people don't even watch our shows. You watch TikTok or your favorite celebrities are literally just influencers. OK, I have to ask you this, Dax. I know you do the asking and you say you hate the paparazzi. Never mind, love.

I almost feel, and you tell me because you have been doing this for longer, but I feel like I missed out on this golden age of celebrity, if I'm honest. I'm quite a private person. I don't want to know everyone's dirty laundry and I don't want everyone to know mine. And I almost kind of wish I was in that phase before social media. Do you feel like you got in there? Yes, I think in many ways, Chris and I are both beneficiaries of a system that doesn't really even exist anymore.

because we were both able to be in commercials and stuff. And you're so right. I look at your resume, and in many ways, your resume is better than mine. You've been on a bunch of quality shows, but the landscape's so fragmented that even this really great show is going to be seen by a third of as many people as Without a Paddle or Parenthood was seen by. So, yeah, it was so centralized or concentrated that you would become famous. Now, of course, that's a double-edged sword, but...

There's money to go along with fame, which I like, but then also it's a pain in the ass too. So it is interesting. You're 36? Yeah. I thought this was a blanket by the way. That's why I touched it. You're allowed. Oh, you're sitting on one. Oh, this is a blanket. Perfect. I'm going to put this around me. Wrap yourself. Yeah. So I guess if you had had the exact same career and it started 20 years ago,

you would probably be able to represent brands and secretly make another couple million dollars a year. But then would it have been harder to get your foot in the door? I don't know. I think there's all these pros and cons. There's pros and cons. If you take everything, like exactly who I am, yes, it would have been harder probably to get my foot in the door because had I come up when you guys were coming up, Gabrielle Union was like, that's the only... Yeah, the network needed one black female actress. There was two black actors on 10 Years of Friends. Guest stars. Yes. And certainly not one with a weird accent who refuses to straighten her hair.

Yes. Or take the ring out of her nose. It wasn't going to be me. Or a jewel in her teeth. Or a jewel in her mom's head who's bitching the whole time. Yeah. Different time. That is also completely static. As we were coming up, the time before us did seem better. So I'm so lucky I got to be in a few comedies that did well. But 10 years before me, all.

All comedies did pretty well. There was dozens and dozens of comedies out at the movie theater and they all did pretty well and then just slid, slid, slid and now there's not a single comedy in a movie theater. You're not gonna see a feature length comedy in a movie. No, which is so sad. It is.

But then again, there's so much fucking brilliant TV. Is there a lot of brilliant comedy? I don't know. There's a lot of crap. That's what it is. I think there actually is a lot of brilliant everything. I just think you're wading through the crap. I feel a little bit like the tide is shifting to be like, should we just make crap? That's the thing that bums me out a little bit where it's like, we could just make crap. Because people will still watch it. Because people will still watch it and we'll still make the same amount of money. Now, this is the really nice part that we got to experience, which I don't know that people now can achieve, which is,

I was in Without a Paddle. Every single 10 to 16 year old boy saw that movie in America. I still run into adults that are like, oh my God, my birthday party was that. And my camping trip was that. It was a real chunk of their life in the same way that the comedies I watched as a kid. But now you're going to see 65 different shows this year. It's hard to keep them straight. You forget you've watched great series. A hundred percent. So I think in that way, it's harder to be an actual important part of someone's teenage years. And I think that's

difficult for me to reconcile because I used to literally have like poetry cut out and stuck on my walls. I've always been like an artsy kid. I would make my own clothes and wear them to school. You're always cool. You're always cool. Dang it. I didn't know at school. It didn't seem cool. I never cared. How did it play? When I was at this Catholic school, it didn't play well at all. I remember one day we were going on a school trip to, I think, Southampton or Northampton. We all got to shop in our own clothes because we wore uniform to that school. So that's kind of a

an equalizer. But we all showed up in our own clothes and that was year eight. Oh my God, okay, I got to tell you, I remember this trip so specifically because it's when the Twin Towers fell. Oh, no kidding. Yes, yes. Oh my God. That was shocking. I just did a spit take of my mint. It's as if I just found out they fell. What?

What? The Twin Towers, though? Not our Twin Towers. But I remember this trip because of the Twin Towers, but actually more so I remember showing up and I was wearing this red and white striped shirt that my mom had given me, like real thin stripes, really cute, almost like cowboy style with little pop buttons. And then I was wearing flare jeans and light blue Converse. And I remember showing up. Very American.

Very American. There's some parts of America I've always loved. Like, I love muscle cars. I love Americana in terms of style and dress. Always worn cowboy boots. Always loved that stuff. But anyway, I remember a girl saying, ew, what are those? To my converse. None of the kids at that age are wearing them. Three years later, converse were like in.

Right. And then they came in. I was ahead of the curve. I guess I get that from my mom. I kind of march to the beat of my own drum. You have a really interesting personality. You're a bit of an eggmoth. Yes, you're very unique. What I think remains endlessly interesting about you is if you were American, I feel like I would be able to explain you a little better.

As a categorical, stereotypical person, I would think, okay, I kind of get it. This is why she's this way. Because the fact that you didn't even care about actors and stuff isn't shocking. But I think that's really weird if you ended up going into acting. That's kind of bizarre. Well, I guess from one enigma to another, because you're very much an enigma too, right? Oh. Do you not think? I don't know. Well.

Oh, as in like, well, Monica, I mean. Mixed messages. I think you're yourself 100% of the time, all the time, which is very similar to my brother. Is he older or younger? He's five years older. And now we have such a great relationship. I think he's one of the coolest people I've ever, ever met. And I will have the pleasure of knowing. And I also say that.

mostly because he just came and I kind of like saw him in a whole other environment. He does not change. This man, there's no element of code switching. He knows who he is. We went to a good, nice steakhouse and everyone sits there and he got his filet on a T-bone and at the end picked it up. Like bone in. He was like, listen, they know what time I'm on. I'm eating it. He's like, they served it to me on a bone. Like, you know, everyone else is like, I wouldn't dare pick it up. But he,

He's him. And in that way, I feel like you guys would get on so well. And you're very similar in that. So I think that in itself, to me is slightly enigmatic, because I think there's very little of it. I couldn't say wholeheartedly that there is no change for me, depending on who I'm around. I actually think that's more normal. To be honest, I think never changing is less normal. But I think better and more elusive. So when I say mixed message, well, Monica said mixed messages, but like you are who you are. And

You probably have a certain following that think you're something, but that is probably maybe some small part of you. You're just very layered, I think. Oh my God, thank you. This feels very complimentary. Oh, okay, good. Okay, do you look up to the older brother? Now I do very much. But what about when you were young? No. It sounds like you were more following mom's style path. Was older brother also kind of eclectic and interesting? Not in that way. He looks like a homeless person most times. He doesn't care. He said one day that someone tried to give him money. He looked homeless. He was like, yeah, I'll take it. Oh, wow, yeah. He's not offended.

He's just like, sure, if you think I'm homeless, I'll be homeless. He just doesn't give a shit. That might be the most confident move I've ever heard. Yeah. There's a funny thing in my family. They have these traits. Well, I guess just my mom and my brother. I couldn't tell you my dad because I don't know him well enough. I know who my dad is, but I don't know who my dad is. What age? He wasn't around from about eight-ish. And actually more or less from that age, completely out. Did he move? Well, maybe. Not out of the country? No, just from different locations in East London. He's just...

This is me kind of armchair psychologist-ing, very broken by his own upbringing and his mom in particular. And so I think doesn't know how to be a dad. I guess that's the best way to put it. Most generous. It's both generous and probably very cutting. Because if you don't think that and you've never heard that, let's say he was to listen to that and hear that, he might not think his child has that thought.

of him i don't know what he thinks the thought is i wonder if you and i have the same dynamic then with my older brother and i because my dad left when i was three but my dad left when my brother was eight so they rode motorcycles together and we had a house with a yard and then we moved into an apartment so my brother very much pined for my dad and i did not at all

Similar. My brother has way different memories of my dad going places with him and listening to the other. Yeah. My brother himself made more of an effort because I think he really felt like he needed that man. Yeah, they had a real relationship probably. Yeah.

I don't know if it's pining. My dad's never been a good dad. He's just kind of been a person. But I think that my brother, interestingly enough, said something the other day because I think he spent a lot of time being angry at him. And he was like, I just realized that he's just a person and you just got to be nice to your parents. For you. That's what's funny. Yeah. You go like, am I the type of person?

Who's gonna be nice in spite of something or not? Because that's all we're working on is ourselves. But also if you know my brother who has been very angry for a long time and can be quite a harsh person as well when he wants to be. For him to turn around and say that, I was like, whoa, am I the asshole? Because I'm just like, I don't want any contact. Has he evolved past me? Wow, you might be on the verge of a totally different thought, which is you now have a little boy.

Yeah. That's curious. Yeah. I don't know. Who knows how that'll percolate up now? Like, will you think, well, I kind of want him. It could go either way, though. It could go either way. You could feel like, who could possibly leave a child? I do feel that's crazy, but I'm also not a guy. Just biologically, there's something very different being a mother and being a father. That's just an irrefutable fact. It's not what...

It's not one-to-one. It's also not controllable by your own mind. There's so much that we want to control and the world now will tell you you have control, but some things are just biological and there's certain hormonal things that happen. You have absolutely no control. You have a ton of oxytocin right now. So cries doesn't sound as loud to you as it does to Larry. Wait, it sounds louder to me. No.

Oh, it's a man it does? Really? Yes, because especially when you're first like four or five months out, you're kind of doped up on your hormones. You're like missing stuff. You're almost a little tiny bit stoned. Yeah, no, I'm doped up on my hormones for sure. But the crying thing is crazy to me. You're going to respond. The pitch of it is shaved off. Less grating. The mom is ready to act. Yes, yes, that makes sense. Because I also feel like even if he's in another room and I hear like...

I'm like, the baby! Right. I'm never, way more attuned. My senses are on, I feel like that Bradley Cooper film. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But I think if we would have taken you and Larry two years ago and put you in some weird sound test where we played certain frequencies, I bet you would have similar levels of agitation at those sounds. Yeah. And then I just bet now if we measured you, it would be diminished a bit. You know what?

I sometimes wonder as well, this is a side note, he's five years younger than me. I sometimes wonder, can he hear sounds still that I can't? You know, the whole thing of like, there's certain sounds. Pitches. Yeah. But maybe it's now we're both over 30, so maybe it's fallen off. Also, men then accelerate their hearing loss so they don't have to hear their wives. This is also like, you're always seeing men with fucking hearing aids. You don't ever see women with hearing aids. There's always married men. They've done it to you.

I think it was plugging their ears with the aid. It doesn't even do anything. Kristen just sent me this really funny meme. I can't be a real story. It said this man had faked his own hearing loss so he didn't have to talk to his wife anymore. And then she learned sign language to communicate with him. And then he went blind mysteriously. And then my response to that meme was, I wish I could read this.

Wait, I didn't know Larry was five years younger than you. Yeah, he's five years younger than me. Wow. Kirby's a beast. I'm a beast. God. I remember when you, were you doing House of Lies when you first started dating? No, but I was working with Kristen on, do you remember correctly? Not House of Lies. Veronica Mars. Exactly. House of Lies. Kristen was pregnant.

Oh, right. Yes, yes, yes. Veronica Mars. Yeah. And I feel like it was new in. Brand new. I mean, literally in the van going back from base to set is when I got the text from my manager who was like, hey, Larry wants to go on a date with you. Can I give him your number? It was that new. And again, this is back to your originality and your uniqueness where you just said to me point blank. You're like, I don't even know what his personality is like, but he's so fucking hot. I'm definitely going on a date with him.

And then you showed me a picture and I was like, oh my God, it's like fucking young Lenny Kravitz or something. Yeah, he is gorgeous. He's impossibly good looking. Yeah, he's gorgeous. Who wouldn't go on a date with him? Right. Yeah. Why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't you? Well, everyone would, but I think especially at whatever moment in time that was, I actually think most people wouldn't have admitted that. Oh. That you would just be like, yeah, I'm going to give this a go because visually this person's very stimulating. Yeah. Well, I think people,

also want to be like well you know it's a personality it's like yeah obviously and if someone's gorgeous and they have an awful personality they start to be ugly and someone can become better looking but off the bat that

we're animals he's gorgeous and i don't want to look at him it's like a ferrari i'm gonna roll the dice with this it's like yeah i'll hope he has a great personality and if he doesn't then i maybe expected it because he was that good looking you know he's even thinking about in terms of cars like sure it might be responsible to buy a prius or something but the car that's going to turn your head as you're walking is like a 60s ferrari drives by and you're like oh my

God, what was that? Yeah, that's going to get your blood going. Yes, and then we hope for a good personality. Yeah, and then I lucked out. Yeah, that's so nice. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

We are supported by Squarespace. There's never been a better time to create your own website thanks to Squarespace, especially because of their new guided design system, Blueprint AI. Choose from professionally curated layout and styling options and then Blueprint AI can build a unique online presence from the ground up.

Tailored to your brand or business and optimized for every device. And I'm not just saying the experience is good. Even our site is powered by Squarespace. We're putting our site where our mouth is. That's right. Check out squarespace.com for a free trial or go to squarespace.com slash DAX to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

Kickstart the school year with Apple Gift Card. You can send it via email or send a physical card to your loved ones. Inspire their curiosity with a world of apps. Boost their productivity with Apple products like iPhone and iPad and help them unwind with the newest albums on Apple Music. Subscriptions to their favorite streaming services, access to over 200 games and more. Visit apple.com for details and to send Apple Gift Cards this back-to-school season.

This episode is brought to you by PayPal. Say yes to summer because now you can get cash back on many of your favorite brands with PayPal. I mean, look, I am even using it to take the kids to the zoo. That's how useful PayPal is. It's ubiquitous, which is really nice. Yes. And you get cash back. I also like it because you can send money with PayPal to friends. Oh, yeah. Which means going halfsies when your BFF visits this summer or

Callie and I live in the same city, so she's not visiting, but we are going on a trip. And so we're going to have to do a lot of splitsies. And fire money back and forth to each other. That's right. With even more cash back in your pocket when you pay with PayPal, saying yes to summertime fun just got a whole lot easier. Make sure to download the PayPal app. An account with PayPal is required to send and receive money, redeem points for cash and other options. Terms apply.

Okay, when we've spent time together, I am always trying to get this out of you. I'm of course fascinated with the notion that you grew up in England and you're here since 2011-ish? Something like that, like over 10 years. How did you decide that you were going to come here and do this? Okay, so I worked at a summer camp.

And then traveled. That's worth telling. Yes. Circus. Exactly. What? Okay, yeah, more info. Well, I worked at a summer camp, which actually there's a lot of people, weirdly, one of my agents also worked at that summer camp. She was a CIT, Counselor in Training, and then she worked in the office, which makes complete sense if you meet her. She wants to be behind that desk. Yeah.

Exactly. She'll get it done. Anyway, I went traveling after, met a guy in San Francisco. We fell in love. He moved to London and then couldn't stay because of visa stuff. He was tattooing and wanted to tattoo. So he moved here, had an internship. And I was at drama school and...

was one term in. So like he moved and I started drama school and I absolutely hated it. What's typical in England, also I speak very fast, so forgive me. I'll try and slow it down. People have the option of listening at 0.7. It's on the app. Oh, that's so cool. So it's on them. Most people listen at two times the speed. Yeah.

Because we're so long. Well, that's what they're getting with me. They can choose exactly the tempo they want to hear this at. Okay, so it's quite typical to take a gap year. After secondary school, before college, before uni, you figure out what you want to do. I didn't get into the drama school I really wanted to get into. I really wanted to get into Bristol Old Vic. Well, actually, my first year auditioning, I got a call back for Guildhall, which is a very good school. It's where Orlando Bloom went, but he dropped out. And I was like, that's it.

I've done it very cocky. I was like, I'm in when I got a call back, didn't get in and was kind of a bit devastated for the year. And then the next year tried and I really wanted to go to Bristol, didn't get into Bristol Old Vic. So I ended up taking two gap years because I was like, right, well, I kind of put all my eggs in that basket. Let's just take another year. So in the two years I did more traveling, I worked as a teaching assistant. I've had a job since I was 14 years old, but I worked full time and worked in bars and all this. So I just did a lot of growing up. So then when I did get into drama school that next year. You'd already been on your own a little bit.

I'd already just been on my own too much. I was financially independent. I mean, I still lived at home with my mum, but it was just hard to go back to being in school where they were telling you what to do and when to do it. America is like, if you're the fastest, run the fastest. No one will stop you. In England, it's like, let's all hold hands and run at the same speed. Ah.

And we have like a lot of the tall poppy syndrome and things like that. And so that is very difficult if you are someone who's like, well, I want to run the fastest because I can run the fastest. Or minimally like in that direction. Yeah, or minimally just like I want to fulfill my own potential. You know, like I just want to see what I can do. And I was very much beaten down for it in drama school. I had two drama school teachers that had...

hated me in my first year. I went to East 15. I remember one of the people, she was like, we don't have a lot of big stars that come out of this school, but we like it that way. And in my mind, I was kind of like, oh my God, we love mediocrity. Come on. It's like a tech school going like, we haven't produced any inventors. Yes, and we like it that way. But it's also like, do the students? I remember you have to do an end of year... Showcase. No, no. What's worse than that is they don't let you perform at all until like your third year. Oh, jeez. But, um...

You do a review. You know when your boss says, like, how do you think you're doing? Those things, whatever that review is called. We had to do that at the end of each semester. And I remember at the end of my first term, they were like, how do you think you're doing? And I felt great. Like I was getting all my coursework in and they ripped me to shreds. They were like, you know, you're not a team player. You go ahead of the class. You don't work with every, like they, I mean, they eviscerated me. Two of them tore me to shreds. Enjoyed it.

Yeah, I absolutely enjoyed it. And I was like, I'm not coming back for this bullshit. And a girl I went to drama school with, who was a good friend of mine at school, she was like, trust me, it'll get better after your first year. You don't have to deal with them again. So just come back. So I was like, okay, I'll come back for the next semester. Day one of semester two, I was like, what the fuck? That's one thing I think I got from my mom. I have a very strong sense of self. I know myself. And I was like...

no, I'm not meant to be here. And I'd met this guy and we were in love. And at that point, he was still living in London, but it was sort of in the works to come here. And I was just like, what am I doing? I hate this place. I don't think it can do anything for me. And so he had moved here and was like, well, why don't you do classes out here or something? And it wasn't this

big, I'm going to come to Hollywood. It was just like, that's an adventure. That feels fun. Why don't I just try that? Yeah, I assumed you assessed the opportunities in London and then you assessed the opportunities in New York or LA and said, I will go there because I want. Not at all. No, it was more like, he's there. I didn't have anything

I didn't have anything in London, too. I didn't have an agent. And to me, I genuinely was just like the adventure of it all. I think maybe that's the folly of youth or the beauty of youth, actually, is you don't think too hard about stuff, which also is like why we can't give kids extreme power because you can't even think too far ahead. Month out is maybe max. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, you literally don't have your frontal lobe isn't even developed. Yeah. So I'm like 21. And I'm not thinking like you don't have a visa. You don't have finances. You don't have family money. You have no safety net. I literally was like, I have my grant that I was given for the next semester that I hadn't given to the school yet. And I have some student loan money. So that's $5.

thousand pounds that'll last me forever that's like more money than I'd ever had and that was probably like eight thousand US dollars yeah a hundred percent I was like you have five thousand pounds go to America you can make it I'm rich go buy a house buy a car I mean I'll be famous in three weeks so this is enough to get me through I

I was like, I'll have an Oscar by the time I'm 23. Right. This is all I need. Had you done comedy in England at all? Not directly. Another jab that I got a lot from drama school was that I was too comedic, that I didn't take it seriously. I always made things comedic. Like even if it was dramatic, I would make it funny and that was bad. I think the subtext of everything they were saying was you're not grateful enough to be here.

Dax, you've nailed it on that 100%. That was the subtext. I remember even auditioning for RADA and one of the things that they would say is, we break you down so we can build you back up. Yeah, Julia says that too. That was what they said. But actually what I think they do in a lot of those schools is they knock any individuality out of you and they homogenize you and you kind of almost see that in a lot of the performances that come out of it. It's like very by the book. I get it. When you go to art school, right, you have to learn certain techniques. I think Picasso said, you know, you have to learn the rules so you can break the rules. But I don't think...

think it's quite the same in acting. No, you can definitely lose something along the way. Yes. They very much kind of wanted that. And I think I refused to let the life be knocked out of me. And that was not the way. They didn't like that. They're like, be the instrument almost like of the school. You're the vessel on the ship.

Only you're to bring nothing of yourself. Yes. And that's, I think, complete opposite of acting. You have to bring so much of yourself. Yeah. Well, minimally, you just look at the people you liked. And are they the people that were homogenized? In fact, I'm even more intrigued. I want to meet them in real life because I get a hunch they're a little bit dark.

Yes. A little bit this. So when you get here, how does UCB hit your radar and why do you decide to start there? I was working at a cafe that I started working at illegally. Honestly, the owner was kind of terrible, but also for this kind of great that he let me work there. And there was a girl there

She did UCB. So the way I got enough of a visa to stay was I started taking classes at Lee Strasberg. So I had like a student visa. So I was taking classes there and then working at this cafe because obviously my £5,000 ran out. Shockingly. Shockingly. I couldn't make a stretch. I didn't invest well or something. So imagine that.

I still don't even know what investments are. I'll use $1,000. I'll invest $4,000. That'll be yielding me at least $6,000 a year. It's amazing how quickly that money goes. You know what's funny is there's all these things online that are like, you could take $5,000 and become a millionaire. It's like, show me. Show me how to invest $5,000.

500,000. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, anyway, so I started doing those classes and then I was doing Actors Access and all the other ones. I've forgotten the names, but I would like self-submit. So I was doing student films and then also trying to do little auditions and just kind of feeling like nothing was happening. I did loads of different other classes. Yeah, would you do these things where at the end of it, there'd be like a workshop? I did showcase. Okay, I'll tell you something about those. I did

so many of those casting workshops where you pay and I know people have mixed feelings about them but I think they're fantastic. Oh great! Really? I think they were one of the few equalizers that we actually had left as actors that didn't have their foot in the door. I don't think I'd even be sitting here if I didn't do them. Sure, there were some casting directors that were just money grabbers but

the first thing I ever tested for, I had zero credits, no agent, no lawyer, no nothing. And I tested because I went to one of those showcases and I did it with a cast and director. And I wish I could remember their name, but the show was called A to Z. I auditioned for that. Yes. The lady who cast that, she was like, you're great. You didn't audition for that show there. You just bring some sides and you audition. There was this glint in her eye and she brought me into the office like separately outside of that. And I got to

the test stage just kind of on my own merit like at the test had to find a lawyer because you know you have to get that all done but that was through workshops and then once those got taken away it almost was like how do you get an audition if you don't have an agent you don't have a manager how do you ever get in the door oh

I completely agree. I was out here forever and I had friends that had agents and they were going on commercial auditions. I could not figure out like what on earth. I did not get an agent until I was in the Sunday company at the Groundlings performing once a week. And even then it was dicey and I had an agent who went out of business while I was shooting the pilot of Punk'd.

Like literally went bankrupt. I also had no idea you were in the Sunday Company. You didn't? No. I'm terrible. I've done no research. This is great. This is our chance. Well, this feeds into the fact that I don't care about celebrity. I just never research anything. Okay, so UCB, that is one of the ways. So I was not having any success. A girl who I worked at the cafe, she was at UCB and she was on a Herald team. Really quick, Monica. Was there any overlap between Kirby and you? A little, maybe. Because, you know, Monica worked at the front desk. Oh, yeah.

And I interned. And I was on a billion teams. Yes. I was never on a Herald team, though. I think there was overlap because when I came over here, I'd known you. Because I interned, too. Right. I interned when it was just Franklin. Exactly. So we weren't...

but we didn't have any classes together. No, I think you were maybe ahead of me. My first class, I wish I could even tell you the year of my first class. I feel like you were interning before I was, like maybe when I was just going there. Yeah. But anyway, she had said to me, you should try it. And I tried 101. I used to do these classes in London called the Anishia Theatre. That was like my kiddie. It was more like a...

It was like a community center, honestly. And that was my introduction to acting. That's what made me want to be an actor. And the class was part acting, part dance, part learning about Mahatma Gandhi. It was run by this old hippie. It wasn't like a stage school at all. When I went to UCB, it felt like that again. It felt like after years and like going through the ringer of drama school and then, you know, auditioning wasn't fun because I also wasn't getting anywhere. Playfulness is the currency there.

And shining is rewarded. Yes, yes. And standing out is rewarded. Is rewarded, exactly. And UCB felt pure, felt rebellious, felt punk. Punk rock, yeah. Yeah, I haven't been there for so long. It started to feel less of that the more it grew, as is the nature of these things, kind of like markets in London. They become victims of their own success. They get commercialized and things like that. The nature of improv is so fleeting and truly no one cares. You care a lot when you're doing it, but you can't really

explain it to anyone outside of it oh there's nothing worse than when you do an improv show and you're at the whatever after party and people are trying to explain or walk through this improv thing and you're like oh right without the high wire act it's terrible terrible yeah and that's I think that's why it doesn't work on TV 100% why it doesn't work on TV there's no stakes yeah and then also if you're not

in it and steeped in it monica maybe you can attest to this when i say like it doesn't matter now that i'm not really doing shows if someone asks me to do a show i'm like absolutely not yeah we did one together though that was a very fun show fun and i hadn't improvised in like a decade well that's the only time it's fun is when you get to play with your friends so now if someone asks me to do a show if it's not with all my friends it's also kind of like a social hang then it's just not fun

Of the many amends I owe Brie, the woman I was with for nine years, probably the number one is that she had to suffer through every Sunday night after a show where we all got drunk and went through every sketch ever.

In every improv. Fish for compliments. I mean, what a thing for her to have had to have observed. My ex was with me through the improv thing. He came to every show willingly. He wanted to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was there. Listen, the show's fun. The show is fun. Yeah, you're right. The six hours of sucking each other off afterwards. It's so true. That is what we do.

And the drunker you get, just the more sucking happens. And then you're sucking yourself off. Yeah, you are. And you're so brilliant in the moment. You're just like, what? And then that call back. How do we do that? How do we do that? I gained a great awareness of it because my sister went through after I did. I let her host after their big, to get into the Sunday Company show, whatever, maybe a fourth level show. And I let her host it at my old house. And I just kind of was like in and out of the kitchen every now and then. And I would just catch the snippets of them. And I was like, oh, great.

Christ, that's what I did to Bree. Yeah. Well, it becomes really cringy when you're not part of it. But when you're part of it, it's so pure. It's so special. That's what's pure about it. It's almost like being a kid. When you're out of it, it's like, what? It's so cringy that this thing mattered and you cared and you were so invested. But it's so pure when you're in it. I...

consider UCB to have been my university. Don't you feel lucky, like when we were just talking about the golden age of celebrity, I do feel like we were in the golden age of UCB. Oh, unequivocally. When there was one UCB, even just the beginnings of Sunset, it was okay. But really...

It was falling off. It was pretty quick after that. It was pretty quick. And when your classes were all over the city, it was like maybe you're a lyric hyperion. Struggling to find parking. Yes. Going to some unknown theater on Santa Monica and seeing people walk and being like, maybe they're in my class too. Absolutely. What a time. But I would argue the people in New York probably think they were a part of the golden age. They probably feel that way, yeah. Yeah. I think they

I think they had a different golden age because they would say they were in the absolute golden age. But no. It was big enough that you felt like you were really part of something real and that could maybe lead to something, but it was also small enough. Can I tell you a secret that isn't a secret now we're on this? I had no idea what UCB was. I didn't know who Amy Poehler was. I'd never watched SNL. I didn't know comedy. I didn't watch Seinfeld. I guess I knew comedy. I just didn't know this stuff.

That's probably liberating because I entered the groundlings going, this is how one gets on Saturday Night Live. So the pressure and the stakes were always kind of there. I needed this to all work out. I didn't have an agent. This was going to be my singular shot at getting my foot in the door. I had a really happy ride. Like when things came of it, I was like, whoa. I'm just now seeing a parallel though. And I haven't put it together in the past, which is the other annoying thing is we would...

get in a fight, me and my friends, and again, the fight, a very long bar fight is three minutes. And we would talk about that fight for the next eight hours. And Brie would walk by and go, are you guys still? But now I'm realizing both things are high adrenaline, high stakes, failures on the table. There's something about processing everything you just went through. You really had to process a show weirdly after as well. Good or bad, you have to really dig into it. Walk through every beat.

A few times sometimes. Oh my God, when you brought back. Oh God. But it's fun. It's fun. I loved it. I was on a Harold team and a Moore team. I loved them. It's the thing I'm most nostalgic for. Yeah, that and my flat in Glendale. That was a moment in time for me. What happened at the flat in Glendale? It was just the first time I'd ever lived fully alone. It was a studio. I think

that I want space, but actually I could live in here very happily. Like I like a little cozy space and it was cozy, but the wardrobe was massive. That was really cool. Obviously bed and living room are the same area, but the wardrobe. That's the closet? The closet, yeah. The closet was like. Inordinately large. Yeah, the guy I think upstairs basically made it another bedroom. You know the. Murphy bed. Murphy bed, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that was all around the same time. I guess it was to me like my college years. Were you hooking up with the other comedians? What about the

Boyfriend. Minimally. Oh, so the boyfriend then became husband, which then became ex. Oh, my God. I didn't. Kirby, we are. You're divorced. I am. I know. We're learning. We have traveled together. I know. Did I tell you I killed a man? Do you know I murdered a man and did a little bit of time? No. No. No.

No, because that could be true. Exactly. Because there are celebrities who have killed people. It's not something I lead with. It's not a thing that I'm like, I'm embarrassed by. It's not a brag. Which is also funny because at first I was like, I won't say I'm a divorcee. It makes me seem old. But now it's kind of fun. It's like, ooh. It is fun. Yeah, got married really young and divorced quite young. Wrote a show about it, sold a show about it. Didn't make it onto TV. Great show though, but you know. How long did the marriage last? Total relationship was almost seven years. So marriage was four years.

- Oh, for three or four? - That's reasonable. - Three or four? I mean, it's reasonable by Hollywood standards. - But I mean, the seven year relationship that ended in marriage is not crazy. - It's not crazy, but I will say for being young, it is crazy. If my kid came to me at 24 or five and said, "I'm getting married," I'd say, "Please don't." Even if you wanna be with this person, just be with them. Don't get married. - Right, I can't be judgmental 'cause certainly Brie and I, that was a marriage.

We just didn't get married. But living together for nine years, you know, we did that. Nine years is huge. Yeah, especially all through your 20s. That's what it is. For me, maybe it's not the marriage. It's the all through your 20s. It's the time of your life where things are most in flux. Besides, obviously, the stages of being a kid, things change rapidly. Like every month you're different. But you're a child. We don't trust under 16-year-olds to make massive choices. 18, 21, we give you the power to make choices. But I just don't think your brain is aware of what a lifetime looks like or even what a marriage looks like. A marriage is...

Torture. No, it's not torture. I mean, even the nature of relationships, I think you go in so Pollyanna-ish. A real badge of honor for me was me and my ex would be like, we never argue. But actually, I realize it's because we didn't fully communicate. Like, you have to argue. There's no way two people can live together, make decisions together, pay bills together, do all that and not argue. Someone's building a resentment if not. Just the fact that

fact that i have grown up one way you've grown up another way i see the world one way you see it one way there's no friction in that there's no moment human beings sharing a space we just always get on and i think you don't you just harbor things and you build it up the other thing i think you succumb to some illusion that you have just figured yourself out in some way you've really just defined who you are as an adult and you really can't imagine that that's super flexible

and that you're going to change in a lot of ways. I think that's the inconceivable part. - We tried couple therapy. I remember separating and I remember thinking, maybe even saying to the therapist, I feel like betrayed by my own mind. I feel like what I thought is another spit-taker. - My God. You would ever betray yourself. You're telling me the towers are gone?

If I go there right now, they're not there. I felt like what I thought I knew was completely impenetrable. If I choose this person, then I choose them forever. It's deeper for you and would be for me too, because I think one of the things you have constructed your identity on is you're an individual who has convictions. So like it's almost a defining characteristic you've been priding yourself on.

And then you go, hold on a second. Maybe my conviction is also fallible. I'm having a moment of that, particularly this week. I don't know what it is. I'm recognizing that I want to grow up and not just get older. I'm quite a headstrong person. And convictions are a thing that you have to have them, particularly in this time, you have to have them. But some of the things that

you can betray you as well. And I think sometimes my being so like, I know what this is. I want to make that decision. There are times where I look back now and I'm like, maybe a little more flexibility or a little less hubris. I don't know if it's self-assuredness could serve to produce different results. Oh, he's going crazy. Oh, okay. Time for a little feeding? Yeah. Is that okay? Yeah, of course. Here we go. Let's do a feeding. Oh!

- Oh, you're home girl. - Hi. - I'm sorry to have done that to you. - We're all in the air. Mommy's right in the air. - I happen to have some in my pocket. - It's okay, come on, relax now. It's okay. - I tried. - Oh, you did great, KB. Thank you so much. - I mean, there's a lot of rooting and I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna do what you want."

Do you think about feeding him like a piece of cheese or anything? Maybe it's time for an avocado? Can I say, it's okay. My favorite thing about breastfeeding is he's just like an animal. He's just like, oh, you're too sad. It's okay, honey. I think he's classed the feeding because this man wants to eat every two hours. All the men left. Yeah, I had to get out of here. They were like,

to go. They were like, there's a time and a place for boobs. Yes! I prefer to see them. We're not married to this woman, so we have to go. Yeah, I don't regularly see these boobs. I like the pleasure side of boobs, not the business side of boobs. You miss it? So much. I loved breastfeeding. I love it. I love it. Yeah, you okay now? Back to my chill state. Thanks, babes. Thanks, brobs.

I love chicks. They take great care of me. Everyone ran up in a panic. The man is uncomfortable. No, help. Everyone act. Everyone grow up what you're doing. This is not crazy. Men, why do they do this? And you're like, well, because we miss

We've been doing this to them since. Exactly. Of course we do it. When my nan was in the hospital dying in hospital, Larry was there and he was kind of cold and she was like, couldn't speak at this point, completely numb, but took off the scarf and was like. No. No. So he wouldn't be cold. Oh. Amazing. Now he's just like jello. Bye. Bye. Oh my God, thank you. Bye little baby.

R.D. Money, let us land this plane so that we can join you guys. I know. R.D. Money! I don't want to leave for a while. I don't want you to leave my lap either. It's my favorite thing. That was a sweet sidebar. That was lovely. Yeah, little people in here just like giving love and receiving love. Now Delty doesn't want to leave. Soulmates are squeezing and hugging. Love you. Love you, baby. Well, that was

That was great. Those girls were so great. That was a first. A guest stopping to breastfeed. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel honored that that happened. Even though that has nothing to do with us, I just loved it. You could never do that anywhere else. Can you imagine on Larry King? You know, he's so passionate. He wants to do what? Even.

Even Stern, even we love Stern, but that would probably feel a little harder to do there. Well, also, I think some people feel defiant about breastfeeding. Like it's a statement. And I don't really feel one way. I just care more about me and my kid and not about anyone else. But in that moment, I could still just care about me and my kid. Whereas in other situations, even if you had to do it, you'd have to care about a larger group. And then it would kind of be an act of defiance or you have to ask permission or whatever. Right. Yeah.

I have a little scarf. I call my shame scarf. And sometimes I can be bothered, but if I'm wearing a big enough top or whatever, I don't. There's a couple of things. I think you should do it wherever you want, do whatever. I do think

Even me, we're humans, right? We see people's bodies and sometimes we look at them. And so you have your whole top up and your boob is ginormous and your baby is sucking on it. You're probably going to look. Even the other day when we were here, heaven forbid she thinks I'm a weirdo. I was looking at Molly like, God damn it, that woman's had two babies and I was a full perv. Literally, she was in a bikini and I was like, just turn around so I can just see the front. I just want to see your stomach. Like, we're humans. We look at people's bodies.

Of course. It's so weird that we deny it. So, yeah, I don't think anyone should be scorned for it. You shouldn't stare, but if you walk past these people,

Take a little hit. You deserve it. You might look at someone's tit if it's out. They're not always out either. They're not normally out. Right. It's different. Yes, it's novel. There's a breast on the scene. You know Kristen very well. You guys have done four things together. Yeah. And to know Kristen for four years was to just see her tits everywhere. Like any dude that came by, I'm like, just come on in. There's no shame scarf. Both are out whether one's being used or not. It's just like, let's take this shirt off.

She was very comfortable. She was very comfortable even not pregnant or nursing. She's very comfortable with her nude body. I'm comfortable with it on my own with my family very much. So not just with everyone. I guess like if I have to do a fitting or something, I don't mind being topless. I'm not like...

nudist beach person or even if people were around if I was at the house and the painters were over I don't think I'd have both my boobs out but sure sure that's a good just for your own longevity we shouldn't probably the painters are over okay but we were talking about guys and this brings me to another observation of mine about you which is you don't seem to have much approval junkie in you you're not flirty well I

maybe you're just your natural essence is attractiveness.

It's insanely attractive. There's no vibe of like, I need to know that you think I'm attractive. Well, you know what I think is helpful? I didn't think I was attractive or know I was attractive until I was probably 23 or 24. I mean, I thought I was ugly until I was about 18 or 19. And then I thought I was kind of cute-ish. I look at pictures. I mean, I remember saying to someone, Rachel Bloom, actually, I was at a picnic and I was like, oh my God, I was this completely atrocious looking kid. And I showed her a picture and she was like, what?

I can't see it. If that's how you felt, I don't want to invalidate that. But I really never felt a couple of things. My mom never grew up being like, you're beautiful. I never got any affirmations on my physical appearance. Right. And then I was kind of like a bit of an odd kid. Like I remember,

When I was 13, I dyed the tips of my hair red. I watched Khaleesa's music video, I Hate You So Much, and she had this half long hair, half shaved hair, and I went into the mirror and cut my own hair. Like, just literally. Let's go. This is also, again, before Instagram, so I didn't have the picture in front of me. It was a music video that I'd seen, and then from memory. Tried to lock in. I had to lock in. From memory, I cut my own hair. Is that left side or right? Oh, fuck, it's flipped. Yeah.

So I never made choices based on what made me look prettier. My currency has never been looks. So it was actually quite weird for me. Even when men started looking at me, I used to be like, what are they looking at? It felt very like, what the fuck is he looking at? Yeah, what's wrong with this dude? What's wrong with this guy? This guy's weird. Yeah. He's looking at me. Yeah. He seems interested. What the fuck's wrong with this guy? What does he think, I have money? Yeah.

This guy's after my money. I have 5,000 pounds. This is gonna last me an eternity. What an interesting voyage because you are objectively outrageously beautiful. Oh, thanks. Yeah, yeah. It's kind of a shocking level of beauty. Well, Kristen and I say it to you all the time. We always say you have the most pleasing face. There's like something almost anesthetizing about looking at your face. But we've also told you directly that

-Well, I'm more-- -There's something so pleasing. I get more caught in your flattery of Larry, so I'm not-- Well, Larry, I'm sorry. Larry actually pisses me off.

In fact, I'm still outraged. The other day you told me like, "Oh yeah, Larry's recovering from a hernia operation." No, heart surgery. Heart surgery, which is way worse. Maybe I made it hernia so I felt justified in being mad at him still. A heart surgery. While you were like giving birth, this is insane. Yes, and then I said, "Oh my Lord, I didn't even know he had a thing." And then you said, "Yeah, I mean, he hasn't been able to work out in two years." And I literally went, "Fuck that guy. He can suck a dick."

I hope he has a hundred more heart surgeries. Oh, not on wood right now. How dare he? Absolutely not. How fucking dare he have not worked out in two years and look like that? Yeah, he is beautiful. But just yesterday, I was with Erica Curtis. Yes. Who's met. She loves sugar. Oh,

And she was like, Kirby's face is so incredible. I can't stop looking at it. Oh, that's so nice. Because I do feel like I would like to feel you can't put too much stock in it because your face is going to change. But just to be like, oh, OK. I recognize that because my mom is stunning. She's so beautiful. But I think she has put so little stock in it. She missed it. My mom.

is just like baby lotion on her face. I'm like, let's get good products because it's nice to feel pretty. It is nice to feel attractive and you know, people go like, it's just for you. It's kind of both, right? It's like circular. It's simple, whatever it is. It's like, yeah, it's for me but also it's nice if someone says, oh, you know, yeah,

"Oh, you look nice, you feel good, you feel confident." You can see when women, particularly, walk down the street feeling good. - If someone says they don't like feeling hot, they are either lying or they've been so hot since they were so young that literally it's a given and they don't think about it. I have met a couple dudes that are so fucking hot

that they're almost not even interested in women. This is a foregone conclusion. There's no reward there. There's no chase. Yes, there's no chase. Of course this person will like me. That's kind of boring. Or their hotness has led to some sort of trauma. Sure, we've got to include that. Yes, unfortunately. And I think that's a fair amount of people. Yeah, but I have a big difficulty with the like, they're for me,

My tattoos, they're just for me. We're social animals. We live in a world where we take in other people around us. Yes, and also we're constantly evaluating our surroundings and the people around us and making judgments is part of who we are and what we are and assessing each other and sizing each other up and prowling. We're thin slicing and we're trying to figure out are they safe? Are they a threat? Are they a mate? Yeah, and all

outside stuff is also what is signaling the inside stuff kind of this is who I'm showing you that I am I have this piercing or I have this whatever it is I don't know this whole like I dress just for myself I guess it stems from yourself but it is also telegraphing to the world who you want the world to know you as of course stay tuned for more if you dare

We are supported by Chase Sapphire Reserve. There's one essential thing you need to bring whenever you travel, and I'm not talking about packing extra socks or a mini first aid kit. I'm talking about the Chase Sapphire Reserve card. It was made to help you get more wherever you go. You'll earn three times the points on travel purchases.

and receive a $300 travel credit. Plus, you'll get access to Sapphire's Airport Lounge Network. Boom! It has exactly what you need to relax and refresh before your trip. If you want to make the most of your travels, this is how you do it. Learn more at chase.com slash sapphirereserve. Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply.

My watch says we've gone three miles. This app is like having a personal trainer. Yeah, but those apps collect a lot of your personal data. Aren't you worried? Really? That's creepy. How do I stop that? You should go to privacy.ca.gov to learn about your privacy rights and get on the best path to protect your privacy. You think they could help us get up this next hill? One step at a time. Californians have the strongest privacy protections in the country. Go the extra mile to protect your information. Learn more at privacy.ca.gov.

Welcome, friends, to the Playful Scratch from the California Lottery. We've got a special guest today, the Scratcher's Scratch Master himself, Juan. Juan, you've mastered 713 playful ways to scratch. Impressive. How'd you do it? Well, I began with a coin, then tried a guitar pick. I even used a cactus once. I can scratch with anything. Even this mic right here. See? See? Well, there you have it. Scratchers are fun no matter how you scratch. Scratchers from the California Lottery. A little play can make your day.

Please play responsibly. Must be 18 years or older to purchase, play, or claim.

Okay, third observation. So one is that like, you don't seem to have a lot of approval seeking, which is fascinating. And then you're already doing it, which is you're, I would say uniquely pragmatic for an actor in Hollywood. You're very practical about what the world really is. You and I are generally bonding over like, yeah, but that's all bullshit. We all know what's really going on. And

I've been curious, is that, do you think, your English perspective or just your own personal perspective? I think a lot of it is English because I sometimes find that I'm received here too harshly or maybe say it as it is too much. A little bit like, we don't say that. The other day, I was at a Soho house with someone who had a membership and there was a dog in there and this dog came up and had a service vest on and was like sniffing around and I went, that's not a service dog. It clearly wasn't a service dog.

dog. Yeah, yeah. It's a party animal. It's at a bar. And the girl was kind of like, huh. You say what you're thinking. Of course I don't have complete word for it. I can understand the situation. That was sort of like, it also felt kind of funny. Hey girl, we both know that's not a service dog, right? But was she trying to act like she didn't know it was a service dog or that I should be fooled into

thinking that was a service animal. You don't want to participate in some silly fantasy. You're kind of unwilling to play the role of, yes, now I should be offended or now I should feel touched by this. I have a very live and let live attitude for most things. The only tribe I really want to be part of is my friends and my family, like a very, very small community of people. That's a group that I live and die by. I don't like the tribalism in general. I don't like, if you're part of this group, you have to believe all of this. I don't want you to say I'm a this or I'm a that. I don't.

think there was ever a time where people weren't polarized but i do think there was a time where people could have more nuance in their thinking and much more tolerance the reason why we can't have it is because we keep mistaking public platforms as intimate spaces where we can have conversations you know like rules get made because someone did something now it's like don't dive into the pool because someone dove into the pool so now we need a rule and it's almost like we want to have conversations and we want to be open but now these freaking clowns it's like all right

now nothing can be serious or real. It used to be that we acknowledge we share a space. So it's like you're in a town, people think differently, but we're here, but there's no other place. Now there is a place. You can live most of your life on a platform or on a computer. And then even those platforms and computers will actually drive you to locations in the real life, the 3D life, that also there'll be no compromise required. That's to me what's changed is there's no acknowledgement of like, hey guys, we're all here. What's,

So crazy is I look at like my nan. She came from the Caribbean, lived in like a shack in the Caribbean, came to London, moved into an area where there were a lot of other Caribbean people, but a lot of English people, loads of different people. And the love her neighbors have for her, not to say that she lived in a utopia where color didn't matter, but community mattered more, right? The people in your community and that came down to people.

the personality, not your political beliefs, not what you've assigned yourself to be or not the label you've given yourself. None of that sort of stuff or the group you have to be part of. It was just, are you a good person? You know, I go over and I check on Peggy and I make sure she's okay. And that was their group. And it was small and you could care about that group of people. And then,

we have the internet, which felt like our world expanded, but then it shrunk everything too, because now you don't even know your neighbors. You don't care about them. I live in a neighborhood that's very, very eclectic. It's a small neighborhood and there's a Facebook page. I don't know when it happened because I moved to this neighborhood in 2020. So I don't know if that changed things, but like everyone is so angry. Truly, I

think you can believe whatever you want. I don't understand this world where everyone has to believe the same things. But also in believing different things, we can find more commonality if we're not so locked in and subscribed. Well, you're not leading with that. Yeah. And vote however you

you want? Because at the end of the day, we're all humans. We all want the same things, right? We want comfort and we want to be safe. I think most people want the best. And I'm trying to hold on to the fact that I have always thought that most people are good and most people want for the best things. I do think that I just think it becomes difficult to sort of keep that as a perpetual thought when you look online and you see and hear a lot of loud people. But I do still cling to that because I've met people that validate that. Everyone's

feels attacked so everyone's acting out of defense all the time so that just leads to this anger so when Michael Brown happened that was seemingly like a very long time ago but not that long ago I was like very active in early Black Lives Matter I would go down to the police precinct in LA and there would be moments where you could talk openly and speak about things like a town hall town hall exactly yeah I would go to like a lot of that

But there was a quote I remember seeing flying around that was like, if you're not outraged, you're not paying attention. Then 2020 happened and everyone had time to sit in their house and everyone just sat and got outraged and got outraged as the form of paying attention. And so now if something happens, you've got to talk about it. You've got to say something. You've got to show that you're outraged because then everyone knows that you're paying attention. We know what side you subscribe to. And if you don't say something, then what? What is it saying that you're not saying something?

This non-falsifiable claim that by not commenting on something, you're somehow complacent in one side or the other. It's like they've created this weird construct. Completely. Where you cannot win. They're basically holding the gun to your head and saying, you are going to alienate half this country. Which side do you want to alienate? Yes. And if you don't alienate one of them, then you've alienated both of them. As if this isn't some tiny part of your life. Even if you're someone who's active on social media every day, it's still a small part of your life. I'm at the

point where I don't even go on that thing every day and I just figured out scheduled posts God bless so I can be on it even less the tag in my little bio is this is my LinkedIn because it kind of is it's not a place where you're going to learn about me you're there for hair braiders I'm there for hair braiders and to show you my work because they've sent me the assets this week and I have to post them yeah yeah yeah and

If she leaves, you might be gone. 100%. I found the braider. What more do I need from her? Yeah. This is a question I do think I asked you when we were together in Tennessee. And you wrote, luckily, so I don't feel completely out of line asking you, you wrote two books, Little Black Girl, The Things You Can Do, which you wrote by yourself, and then Little Black Boy, Things You Will Do, you wrote with Larry. Yeah. Can do as boy, will do as girl. Yeah, but that doesn't matter because I just told you. Yeah, yeah. Because this is the other

People don't correct people in the moment. They're like, he got it wrong later. It's like, I could just tell you right now. I'm right here. We're both here. I'm deeply curious about this. How do you think, and are you even able to evaluate? I'd imagine so your partner's black and grew up in America. How do you think the black experience differs in England from America? Also, I know that's too broad of a question because even within America, you can have a bazillion different blacks. But is there something to be said in general about the two? Yeah, for sure. Because the way we came to these places are very different to start.

with. Everyone in the UK, whether you're Caribbean or not, my family are Caribbean, so you're either Windrush generation, your grandparents came, maybe your parents came if they're a little older, but most people my age are second generation British, their parents were probably born there, maybe their parents were born in the West Indies. And the people chose to go there. They chose

ago. In fact, they were invited. The Windrush generation, they needed more working class jobs to be filled, nursing, factory workers when everything was made in Britain still. So they were invited. They needed that workforce. So there's that. And then a little later, you had a large African migration. So there's a massive difference in the way we came to be in these countries. And then also

what we got to hold on to. So my family are Caribbean, so I have that language, I have the food, I have the culture. We go back, I know the exact island we're from, though, obviously, even by way of how we got to the Caribbean is a different thing. But I know that's my culture, that's my heritage. And then obviously, if you're an African person, even more so direct, because we've come to London from the Caribbean, obviously, by way of Africa at some point. But you know, for them, it's much more direct. So

I think in the most general terms, the way we've come to these countries are completely different. So the experience is going to be different. The way we've been received is going to be different. I mean, my mum grew up in the 70s and there were still signs that said no dogs, no blacks, no Irish. People who are different aren't often...

and just received with open arms. Right, yeah, yeah. And in the UK, there was actually a lot of camaraderie between like Caribbean and Irish people because of that, because they were received in similar ways. But I also think that we don't have that original sin that America can't get rid of. And also because of that becomes a real defining trait. A lot of people would let America tell it blackness started from slavery. Sometimes I find here the defining trait is this struggle. Whereas for me, it's like we've come from the Caribbean. The inciting incident. Yeah.

but I think it's a very negative place. Obviously, it's a negative place. That's an understatement. But I think actually it continues to further reduce the people to go like, this is where your history began. That's not where Black history began at all. Black history did not begin at slavery. Actually, if you look in the whole history of Black people, slavery is like a very recent thing. Well, the very first people are Black people.

Yeah. And then also you've got to look at where we've come from in terms of teaching language and discovering things and resources and Mansa Musa. It's almost like you're taught it starts from here because that in itself creates like a limiting perspective. Also, this is kind of a side note, but it's on that. But, you know, I watched Cat Williams' most recent stand up. Oh, I'm dying to see that. Well,

good and I enjoyed some bits more than others it took a second and then it really got started but there's one moment where he talks about reparations I believe very much in reparations and I know some people feel split about reparations I don't think it's a handout I think it's crazy I feel very strongly about reparations not just because I think it's owed but I also think it's almost like in this industry right people will go oh they loved you they loved you they loved you and then they'll nickel and dime you on your quota and I'm like it's

It doesn't matter to me that they say they love me. Show me. What are the actions? Yeah, the only ways you can really show, unless you're in like an intimate relationship, the only way you really show in a business setting or in that sort of setting, you show appreciation is financially, right? And respect. And respect, like that's the world we live in. What reparations would do, not to mention the fact that there are roughly 42 million reparations

African-Americans, really small number. Even if you take a billion dollars and then just split that up, like it's actually not that big a number to give reparations to this group of people. I say this group because I exclude myself because I'm not an African-American. I wouldn't be deserving of that. But you can almost like start the clock again and go like, OK, not that everything changes. There's issues with mental health and drug addiction. It's a symbolic admission. It's a symbolic admission. And it's also like you were saying about making amends when you go into like a program. It's just that...

I can tell you what the trickiness is from my perspective. Tell me, tell me. Black folks definitely deserve reparations. It's generational. It was systemic. And today people are born still dealing with that deficit. The people that are currently here don't feel any ownership of that deficit.

crime. So the white people. Yeah. So it's interesting that what they are being asked to do is pay for the sins of their ancestors, which is a tough sell because you're going like, yes, they deserve that. But do I deserve to be the one who pays for that when I didn't perpetuate that? Then a more macro view or argument against that would just be, but you're suffering even though. That's what I'm saying. Well, that's one of the things that Cat Williams says. I hear exactly the argument, but my answer to that is just yes, because you're suffering that thing. And then I also think that the burden that

it has on everyone, right? Exactly. The suffering and then the white guilt and then the, I shouldn't feel like that because it wasn't me. The anger, the everything that we all... The defensiveness. The defensiveness or whatever side of it, the stupid fucking black squares that everyone posted during the pandemic. All of that is the guilt and the guilt weighs on different people differently. And yes, you're paying for the sins of your ancestors, but then it's almost like, isn't everyone? Watching how the Germans commit a big chunk of time to deal with the history of the Holocaust and how in schools...

the kids are told to go home and pack a box and everything you want to keep in your life, you got to bring to school in this box. None of those people were Nazis and that's not killing them to do that. And it is making them better. So having observed that in a documentary, like, oh, what's his name? Michael Moore. There's like a 30 minute thing about that. And I was like, yeah, that's totally doable. Like it's just actually kind of beautiful. And our money's going somewhere. Well, that's why I think financially we're kind of

proving every single day it's so doable. COVID proved that we can give people money and survive. And how much we give to war as well, of course. Did you, when you came here, did you feel any kind of observable like, oh, it's a different vibe here? Oh, yeah. I remember being in like a charity shop with my friend. You know, I love thrifting. I love someone else's stuff. Love it. You're nosy is what it is. I'm nosy, yeah. Have these underwear been worn? I'm stinky cuffs.

I want to look at them now. I remember this woman, I kind of walked past the aisle and she kind of held her bag a little tight and I could see it. Because that's the other thing, it's like, you can see it when people do this stuff. They think they're being discreet, but you can see it. She heard me speak with my friend and then she was like, oh,

Wow. Where are you from? And also, if you've ever been to London, everyone sounds like me in London. America's funny because it's so big and such a major exporter of culture, but yet it kind of absorbs mostly its own culture. So I still, to a lot of people, seem very exotic. We also have this huge stereotype about your accent, which is you're smart. There's a disconnect between my skin color and my accent for most people. I got you. But that's also another thing that doesn't always, because sometimes I say words wrong and no one corrects me.

You're getting away with murder. Oh, I'm murder. Oh, that's how they see it. Sometimes I'll give directions and then people will just follow them. You're getting a lot of benefit of the doubt. Always. Always.

But counterbalanced with your blackness. So you might actually be having the same experience I'm having. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. I'm confused. You added an English accent and then you deduct for this. Oh, man. Okay, let's talk about sugar. By all accounts, I think it must be huge because you were here this weekend and my father-in-law was here and he does not watch any television. He was rabid to talk to you about it. Yeah, that was really nice. And I was like, that's a huge sign to me.

because it's appealing to me. I've been watching it and I love it. It's really, really good. Are you watching it, Molly? I haven't watched it yet. You're going to get major Veronica Mars flashbacks because it's noir and there's these very familiar archetypes that Veronica Mars had, which is those like, they're just nasty ass people. Oh shit, I haven't seen- Like Dickie or Davey, what's his name? Yes, Davey. He's just a fucking shitty piece of shit. And it's a very Veronica Mars archetype. Yes, it is. It's so funny because-

funny because i was like oh this is the first novel actually no veronica mars is yeah we got a bad person on the list yes i want you to gossip for a second because i have a great fascination about him but i've never met him but colin farrell i feel like is one of my people

He's fantastic. He's a charming motherfucker, right? Yeah, I wish I could spend more time just talking with him, but he's such a celebrity as well. He's got so many people around him. He's at that stage, you know, but actually he's such a great, normal... He's Irish. I mean, that helps, right? I think that helps. I think it does help being not from here and having that perspective. And that's just a big blue collar chip on the shoulder. Yeah, exactly. I always feel like...

like not generally one to stereotype but when I was in hospital the moment I had an Irish nurse I was like oh I feel okay I feel better like there's just something about Irish people good people I think if you're stereotyping it's like you feel very comfortable around them I can live with that one yeah yeah yeah okay but acting with them is lovely well he's a beast of an actor and you know what he is still I think I've been quite fortunate to still work with this but I know people who've worked with A-listers who aren't like this he does not phone it in he wants to rehearse with you he knows his lines he comes to set prepared

when it's time to work, it's time to work. And you feel like you're working with an equal, even though you're like, oh my God, this is the guy from phone booth, which might not be the film. That was my original intro to him too. That's my go-to. You need to see Tigerland. Have you ever seen Tigerland? No, I haven't. That's his breakout. You know, all these foreigners, they have a,

Ewan McGregor's is Trainspotting. Yeah. His is Tigerland. That's where now Joel Silver's like, he needs to be a movie star. Yeah, okay, yeah. He's phenomenal in that. Okay, but to just go back to what we were saying earlier, does that happen anymore? That's when I say the golden age. Well, I think we have a couple of them on our hands right now. Zendaya.

Yeah, Zendaya. Okay. And also Jenna Ortega. From TV, I guess. And then, I can't say his name correctly, but Zendaya's beau. Timothee Chalamet. Timothee Chalamet. I think we're like... Oh, okay, yeah. This is our new movie star. Maybe I don't watch enough stuff. In the past,

it felt like that happened because it was undeniable and now it sometimes feels arbitrary. Like we're picking. Like we're just picking. In the past, it felt like this is undeniable. Yeah, like a Tom Cruise, a Brad Pitt, Julia Roberts. Natalie Portman. Natalie Portman. Like Ewan McGregor, you're like, whoa. And also the project, right? You're like, whoa. Maybe some of this is also what's happened in the last few years where the pandemic, we were forced to watch TV. So we were just like...

any one of these people because we had to watch them. I feel that way about Jenna Ortega. Okay. I haven't seen that show so I feel maybe I have to watch that. I have the same feeling watching her that I had when I watched Natalie Portman. I was like, get out of here. At what age? Doing all that? And then I watch her in this and it's an opposite. Like, whoa. I'm getting it still. Okay, okay. Now, will they do three movies a year in that whole system? I don't know that that exists. They're going to have to do one of these huge tentpole movies that takes eight months and all that. I mean, Emma Stone

Do you get on with her? Yeah, she's lovely as well. She can get butts in seats. I mean, I think that's what it sort of is. It is, yeah. There's something with those actors that still feel like they love acting. They really love acting. And maybe that's part of not getting sort of burnt out doing too much. And they work with incredible directors. So you're allowed to do what you think that you can do and what you want to do. I think I've only really had that experience once on this indie that I did with Anu. Do you know what I mean?

Is this We Strangers? Yeah. I don't. She was kind of a comedy girl too. It's funny because her stuff now is so much more serious, but she wrote for College Humor, but her stuff now is a little more like surreal with comedy elements. But that project has been the only project where I felt like I love a lot of comedy.

I love a lot of the other projects. I love Sugar. I actually felt like it was fantastic, but it's obviously not my vehicle. We Strangers is my vehicle. And what it felt like was, oh man, if I'm allowed to do what I think I can do, this is what I can do. And they're doing all the stuff around you that needs to be done to match that. Everyone is that invested. And I think that's the nature of like an indie because it's like no money anymore.

in it. So it's pure art. You love it. And everyone loved it and we had time and I think it's the best piece of work I've ever done and I love that piece. When does that come out? We went to South by Southwest so I think the hope is that it gets sold and distributed somehow. I was hoping they would have sent a link for We Strangers but we didn't get one. I think I can get something. I would love to see it. Who are you playing in that? So I play this character called Ray and she's a cleaner. Meaning cleaning up bodies and stuff? No, like a commercial cleaner. You go into all

offices and retail spaces and you clean and then she gets hired by this family and it becomes this whole study of assimilation and code switching and she starts cleaning for these two white families but one is a family that's actually interracial it's like an Indian family it's all set in Gary, Indiana so it's got that sort of backdrop it's really home of Michael Jackson I've been to his house

Well, not inside. Did you shoot in Gary? Yeah, we shot in Gary. And then in other places in Indiana and then right on the border of Chicago as well. And actually, when you said dead bodies, so I worked with a commercial cleaner out there. This lady called, my brain is like. Well, you just had a child. Well, I just breastfed. It's like all my brains went out. I worked with this commercial cleaner and I cleaned

with her. Like I cleaned tax office, I cleaned a funeral park, like I went to the Lego store. I worked, and I think that's the other nature of my idea of being an actor was like that stuff. Thinking of Daniel Day-Lewis getting so steeped in a role, which can feel a bit like wanky sometimes. I mean, it feels very self-indulgent, but actually...

Actually, maybe the proof is in the pudding. Like when you give people time to do that, like I think my performance was so much better because I actually did it. Like I knew what I was doing. I didn't just show up to set and be like, okay, I pretend to be a cleaner now. You pick up these dumb things that you just wouldn't think of naturally because you've done the habitual activity. One of my favorite acting moments in history is Jeff Bridges in that movie where he's a singer.

And he gets out of this old Suburban and he goes in the back. A, he's carrying a piss jug in the car, which was his choice too. And then he gets out and the way he puts the window down on the Suburban, he helps the window up because it's an old truck. And I was like, this man has clearly lived with this vehicle for 30 years. It's the dumbest, simplest thing. But you're like, that's a man in his vehicle. But you got to fuck with that car for a week or something. If someone watches We Strangers and has what you just had, which is like,

oh, that's exactly how you clean that thing. Oh, that's exactly what I would do. That's winning. Oh my God, that's such a win. That's what I came into this industry. That's what I think I'm in this world to do. Right. Really, even if it's just one person, it's like the lines of what's real. And even though I know this is a film, I feel like I'm watching someone's life. That,

to me is like the greatest gift. The best case is you go, oh, this actor was previously this. Yes. Right? You're never going to buy into the whole thing, but you might go like, oh yeah, they must have definitely rode horses growing up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. Exactly. Exactly that. That's what's best we can hope for. Yes, that's the best you can hope for. Okay, well, we'll stay posted on when We Strangers comes out. And Sugar's phenomenal and I hope people take that ride. I'm like,

two thirds of the way through it. And I love it. Again, if you like Ron Mars, man. There's a few Ron Marses out there, by the way. Oh, there's tons. You know where there's a lot? It's in Europe. Oh, really? Oh my God. So I didn't know, because I didn't grow up with cable, so we didn't have Veronica Mars, but they used to show, I think on TV in Italy.

And a friend of mine's now ex-boyfriend is Italian. And when I got on Veronica Mars, was completely like got Hulu, even though Hulu doesn't exist in the UK, got like a VPN. Pirate it. Yes. Snap the gold tooth in. Absolutely obsessed with it. Huge European market. You're right. I'm now remembering us going through the security line in Italy and all these people in Italian freaking out. And then you're like, oh, Veronica Mars.

Yeah. We're like, oh, wow. It's fucking like Baywatch down here. Yeah. Yeah. They love it. So everybody watch Sugar. Everybody find We Strangers when it comes out. I can't wait to see it myself. And then my last question. Did you ever think you would go to the mountains of Tennessee and watch a NASCAR race? What a fun time we had. What a fun time. And I feel remiss for not posting. I think maybe I'll post it after this because I was like not in my social media, but I also was like, this was such a cool

We posted the shit out of it. I know. Everyone looks so good in the show. You don't, but I felt remiss and I'm like, actually, this was a great, cool thing. You guys should see that I did it. There's not many black girls from London at NASCAR at all, right? You guys were sitting on the pit wall and other than Bubba Wallace, who was driving one of the cars. 100%. There was no one. No. There's nowhere that I don't feel like I belong and that I can't go. There's a weird thing where people are like, I can't go into these spaces. I think for...

fuck that I'll go anywhere I want to experience everything there is to do in the very short amount of time I am now realizing I think having a child makes you realize I'm like fuck I don't have a lot

lot of time here like i gotta set some things up we gotta go to a night race yes before we do things yeah before i die i want to go everywhere do everything the ending trip that was really fun that was great thank you guys kirby i love you everyone check out sugar everyone i love you this is genuinely so nice and it's the longest we've got to spend together and this is like so nice well one time we ran into each other at coval that was the best

That was so fun. I was with Anna and Kirby was there with friends and then she came and sat with us and then she left and Anna and I were both like, God, Kirby's the best. Oh, that was so nice. I would like to do that. We'll do that. She's a cool guy. Thank you.

Very much. Number one cool guy. We have three different categories. Best boy, cool guy, sexy man. You're also a sexy man. I'll say cool guy. I told you about my currency. Because cool guy bleeds into sexy man. Yeah, it all bleeds. All right. Love you. Be well. Stick around for the fact check. Because they're human, they make lots of mistakes.

A little update from the comments. One, which is fun, people who like beets really like beets. Oh, wow. Yeah, so they were hurt that we don't like beets. And so we got a lot of fun recipes in the comments that people think you and I will like beets if we try these recipes.

All right. Yeah. I just thought that was an interesting outpour of reaction, the beat lovers. It's okay. We don't have to like beats. Right. Well, what was nice about this approach, if I'd like to applaud it, is no one said like, you're crazy, you don't like beats, or you're stupid, or you have bad taste buds. They said, oh, maybe...

you should try it this way, you know? - Right. But that's kind of like, I know that if you just give it another try, you'll like it. - A drizzle of honey. People really want us to cube it a lot. That was a very common recommendation is that we cube the beats. - Okay. - Okay, now to the second thing. And this is common, I'm very aware of this. So I had said irregardless in an episode recently and people lost their mind.

And I already know the argument about irregardless. It is originally regardless and irregardless is redundant and not necessary. But unfortunately, irregardless is a word in the Webster's dictionary. You're allowed to use it. It does mean what you think irregardless means. And it's okay. It's in the dictionary. Okay. But people were very, they're shook. Yeah. Yeah. How was your trip?

It was all I could do to resist telling you how terrible it was because there were so many times I needed probably to just vent about it. Oh, my God. But it was... What happened? Oh, my gosh. Well, we got to back up to Father's Day when Kristen went down with COVID. Yeah. Last laugh, COVID. Still around. Yeah.

Still going strong. Yeah. So COVID, as you know, you witnessed a lot of this. She basically went to bed on a Sunday and she just never, she woke up a few different times for a week. Yeah. She did not feel well. No, she's not looking good. We left early Friday morning because I had a reservation at an RV place that we had to get to by six and it was in Utah. So I'm like, guys, we have to get on the road at this time to make it in time before they shut the gates of this place.

early scrambling, scrambling, scrambling. And then I look at her in the kitchen on the day of departure. And I have to say like, is this a really stupid idea? Like you look like you might need a hospital in the next 12 hours.

Should we be driving to the middle of the desert in the bus? I really was like, we might have to pull the plug on this. Wow. Yes. Which would be, you know, I look forward to this trips all year. It's my favorite trip of the year. It's so fun. Yeah. And, uh, and then the bus I love, of course. So,

It was really like I wasn't even as we were getting in the bus. I'm like, this is I'm probably going to regret this for her health. Right. And then we're going to get there and can't go anyways because we can't show up with Kristen in the condition she was in at a very communal gathering.

Right. We pushed ahead and immediately what I found out was when I unplugged Big Brown from the 50 amp electric output that it's plugged into at all times, the refrigerator shut off and a few other things shut off that the batteries are supposed to run. So the whole battery system is supposed to run the fridge and some other stuff.

That's not working. And I'm like, oh, fuck. And okay, so the fridge will not have power. We just packed it full of tons of food. Oh, no. And I'm like, this is stressful, but we got to keep going. We start going and I'm trying to think of the order of events. At some point, we have no power inside. I turn the generator on while we're driving thinking, well, okay, if the batteries aren't going to power the fridge, maybe the generator will power the fridge.

the generator going and it's powering some things, but not the fridge and not some other things. So I'm like, what the fuck is going on? So then the next order of events is we're in Nevada. It's now a hundred outside. We're crossing the desert and you have no AC. Well, that was the next development. So I have AC coming out of the dashboard because the engine makes that Lincoln's like, it's really hot in back. Mom's trying to sleep. And I'm like, okay, go to the panel, turn on this button. I'm trying to explain to her how to turn the AC on while I'm still driving. Um,

I mean, she comes back. She's like, it's not working. I'm like, is the blue light on? She's like, yeah, I'm driving, mind you, the whole time. So it's like, I can't get up and do... And now the AC doesn't work. And now the bus is just getting hotter and hotter and hotter. Oh, my God. And I'm like, oh, my God. So we get past Vegas...

I go through all these different breakers. I then pull the generator out from in front of the bus. There is a breaker on there. I turn that on. Okay, thank God. That then powers at least the air conditioning. So now the air conditioning is working, but the toilets aren't flushing. Oh, no.

Oh no. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, long story short, by the time we got to the RV place and I plugged it into shore power and I turned the pump on for the water so we could flush the toilets. I was noticing waters kind of cascading out of the bottom of big Brown. And I'm thinking, is that all condensation from the AC units on top? Maybe that's all leaking down. The electronics are getting more and more scatty wampus and poltergeisty less and less things are working.

I open a compartment, tons of water is just leaking into the compartment. It's the compartment with all of the electronic modules. So everything that runs everything is just getting dumped with water. And now it occurs to me, oh, there is a pipe either broken in the wall or a fitting that has come loose. And I'm also watching the fresh water tank go from 100 when we left down to 20. And we haven't used... Oh, my God. We haven't used any water. So...

I mean, to be grateful, we had AC. I guess we had AC. That's about as good as it could get. But we couldn't use the toilets. The lights no longer worked. None of the shades worked. We were in a campground, luckily, so we could use that bathroom. I'm hoping as these modules dry out, they'll start functioning. They never did. And while driving, people are reporting new things to me every hour and a half. Dad, this thing. I'm like, I got to drive the bus. I can't do this.

Morning of, we're in Idaho at a campground. And that was fun. That place had like a little outdoor pool. It was very, I don't know what the word is. Ragged around the edges, I guess. Oh, what Callie would say, rustic.

Yeah, it was rustic, but not in a silver like charming way. But when we went to the pool at night, there was a French family there, like a mom and a dad and three kids. And they were all speaking French. And I don't know why. I just love the idea that they had chosen their American vacation and they were camping and they were at this weird campground. I don't know. I liked that a lot. And then the next morning, it's time to drive to the fishing lodge.

And we're like, what do we do? So then we all took COVID tests, all negative. Including her. Including her. So she didn't have COVID? Or she was just done testing positive for it. Yeah, she was past being viral or whatever. Okay. So that luckily, because that morning of, I was like, we've gotten all the way here and we can't really go to the fishing lodge. And now we're going to have to drive all the way back, I guess. Oh my God. With all this shit going wrong.

What if there's a guy with a leaf blower in your apartment? It's so annoying. I now, I used to never care about them or think about them. And ever since we did that episode of flightless bird, now I have a beef.

You have better Meinhof. I do. Yeah, you notice it more. So that was a huge relief. That meant it wasn't all for naught. We could go. And I think also mentally, just her knowing she wasn't, she did start to turn around that day. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Which was huge. Okay, last wrinkle, they've never had a 50-amp plug at the fishing lodge. So I...

thought, okay, I'm going to have to park the bus 40 miles away at this campground that has the plug so that it's not dead when I have to drive it back. But then come to find out,

The guy who runs this place, he got an Airstream last year and put in a 50 amp. So lucky. Very lucky. So the bus has been plugged in and I leave in the morning. I'm optimistic it'll get me home, but they're flying as they should. Oh, they are. Oh, you're going to be solo? Yes, yes.

That'll be easier for everyone if I'm not hearing about what's broken every hour. I see. Yeah. I'm sorry because I feel... Go ahead. I mean, I don't think I should take this on, but I feel a little responsible. Tell me how. Because what happened was you told me a story that...

We were originally flying. You guys decided to fly and you hadn't told Delta. And then when you guys told her, she was very, very sad. And then she had had a whole plan and she didn't really want to talk about it. But it was just like the saddest story. It was. So I said, well, why don't you and Delta just take the bus and Kristen and Lincoln can fly if they want. But why don't you guys like do a thing? Yeah. And then you did. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. I mean, it was heading in that direction. You don't have to take any responsibility. The only thing you really participate in is by saying it's okay if we cancel that one day of recording. Yeah, I also gave you that. Yeah, if you had been bent out of shape about that, that might have been something to wrestle with. But you were very...

amenable to that adjustment. Well, yeah, I wanted her to get her trip. Me too. And boy, did she get one. And now she's flying home. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Why? Why do I own this thing? Yes. This is such a stupid, stupid thing to have.

Listen, when you're when you're when you have the ledger of pros and cons, the trip to Mount Rushmore into North Dakota, into Montana and Aaron and I at the Ava Brothers concert being in the dunes, it's still all a huge win. But yeah, currently, fuck this thing. I want to get a Honda Accord. It's the only thing I want to own. Very trusted. Just drive it into the ground and never think about it. It's a great car. Yeah.

Speaking of luxury. Yeah. Since you've been gone, a lot's happened. Oh, my God. Yeah. Because I've been gone, what, four days? Five days? Five days. Yeah, a lot's, lot's happened. So you left Friday, but I saw you Thursday. Then Friday...

I had dinner with Eric and Molly and Erica and Charlie. We went to Craig's. Oh, that's the place with the paparazzi. Yeah. Yeah. And it was really yummy and it was very, very fun. It's kind of like my life is now pre that dinner and post that dinner. No kidding. What happened? Because...

Okay, so I had my card holder out. I have a Goyard card holder. Credit card holder. Credit card holder, yeah. Yeah, okay. And Erica said, oh my gosh, Charlie, you match Monica. And he took out his and he had one too, but his is a dupe. Does that mean fake? Yeah. Okay. Fake is canceled, I guess. Now we say dupe. Oh, come on. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. But people do say dupe. That's like a whole thing.

the whole thing. What about counterfeit? That sounds scientific. I know. So then all of us were like examining them side by side to see the differences and it was, that was a fun game. And Eric was, he was trying to pretend like he didn't know whose was whose and try to guess which was real. Yeah. And he was looking really closely and then he said, do you guys know the saddle stitch is the rarest stitch? And

Him being him, it was like, how would you possibly know that? From his shoe world. No, no, no, but good guess. So he said that, and then all of a sudden Molly goes, he's kind of obsessed with Hermes now. Oh, wow.

I was like, what? Okay. So he started listening to this podcast, Acquired. It's been on for many years. Okay. And they basically do an episode once a month and they spend that month researching a company. Oh. And they do a really deep dive on the company and the business practices, the history, all of it. So Eric had just learned about this podcast and he was listening to an episode on Hermes.

And he said it was so fascinating and so interesting. And so then, like, you know, that was that. That was fun. And then, you know, we're getting ready to leave the dinner. We're standing at the valet. We're all just chatting. And he said, would any of you get a Birkin bag?

Which is an Hermes bag. It's like their main bag. Okay. So it was just like really on... It was like very top of mind for him. Yeah. Yeah. And it was quite funny. I didn't think much of it. And then I got in my car and I turned it on. I was like, I want to listen to this. It's so good. The podcast is very good in general, but...

so interesting and the history is so fascinating. And so, of course, what happens? I start

Googling. I start buying. Oh, buying. Yeah. Oh, no, no, no. I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. No, this is not a brand. Yeah, yeah. And then Eric and I have been texting every four minutes about how we love Hermes now. And then we debated, okay, because I said maybe, but

I will bring one of the towels for this year's white elephant. They have these beach towels. They're incredible. I bought two. Okay. So, and I, cause I remember that I once heard that Anna Wintour gifts the Hermes towels. Oh, okay. All right. Okay. Yeah. And they have tigers on them. Oh, wow. Okay, great. You're the tiger. Yeah. I should have one.

Yeah, you should since you're Year of the Tiger now. Yeah, you're a tiger. Yeah.

And so I said to him, maybe I should bring one to the white elephant. He said, that's such a good idea. Yes. And then he said, maybe Dax would even want it. And I said, he won't want it. He doesn't care about Hermes. Well, and that's my first overall concern is like, will it fall on deaf ears? Will anyone understand what they're receiving? Because I certainly wouldn't. And I feel like I'm more positioned to.

And some others. But you're not. You're positioned more to like be able to have one, but you're not positioned more to know about it. Okay. Okay.

Okay. I stand down. So, but then Eric said, well, well, Dax is starting to like some things that are fancier. He said like the matcha machine. Oh my God. That was just from four years ago. But I wouldn't call that. I mean, it was, it was a very, it's a good machine, but I wouldn't call it a luxury item. No. And I'm making a mental note because I want to hear him tell me how I'm more interested in luxury goods. Cause I want to hear his take on it.

Okay. Well, also, let me see if I can find what he said. Oh, okay. That would be great. Because I can't think of... Oh, I know. I know what he's going to say. Okay. Yeah. The Burberry sweaters. Oh, wow. I forgot. I didn't even think about that. Guilty as charged. Yeah. So the thing is about the Birkin, you have to be basically invited to buy it. Oh, it's like a Ferrari. Yeah. You can't just...

Even if you go to an Hermes store, they won't be there. Okay. And they don't even have one for you to look at? Exactly. Like you can look at this, but you can't buy it. Nope. They don't even have one there. And they start at like $15,000. Holy moly. My lord.

I know. Oh, my God. They go up to like, I think there was one I saw for resale for like $350,000. Oh, guys. For resale?

A satchel to carry other bullshit around in? Yes. And actually, they... So there's another episode on LVMH that I listened to after, which was also incredibly interesting. And on that episode, they made a very interesting distinction between premium and luxury, which I thought was quite well said. Okay. They said a premium item is one in which the actual quality...

And utility is better. Okay. But then the jump from premium to luxury, the quality is not better. I've been saying this for years. It's just a symbol. Yes, yes, yes. It's a brand. You're buying into scarcity. A dream. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I was saying. Like, you're not going to get a better leather bag than Coach, you know?

Build quality, leather quality, stitch, durability. Like that's just a very well-made, you know.

I don't know anything about that. I do. I think so. Okay. No, listen. So Hermes is very specific in that they hand make the bags. The craftsmanship is incredible. It's the only brand currently doing that. I have to interrupt you because I made a crazy prediction a year ago and I feel so vindicated it's coming true. I was just told by somebody.

who works at one of these large retailers. And they were telling me that they're now offering Atelier services. I swear to God.

That is actually in the marketplace currently. But what's that mean? I don't know, but it doesn't matter to me. Remember when I said this is going to be the new word, like artisanal and bespoke. You're going to see it everywhere. And by God, I heard this major retailer now is offering atelier services. But maybe it is an atelier. That's the... Okay, because you...

You're worried that just anything is going to be called Atelier, like any old store. No, anything that is identified as exclusive and rare will ultimately be taken by large, big retailers and made to mean nothing. Like artisanal. If an artisanal Subway sandwich, now artisanal doesn't mean anything.

Right. Well, I agree. It used to mean something. Like when it was only being said about, you know, little shoe cobblers in Italy or whatever. And so this thing, Atelier, a year ago meant something. And I'm just telling you that I nailed this one and it's on its way to meaning absolutely nothing. The difference is artisanal is an adjective. Okay. Yeah.

And atelier is a noun. It's a place. It's a thing. It's basically a workshop, a fancy workshop. It's a tiny place where very, very meticulous bespoke work is done. Yeah. And so the atelier is a...

It's $25,000. A sweatshop. Yes. Yeah. Then it no longer really means anything. Oh, my God. Yeah, you're right. Okay. Okay, I found it. Okay. I found it. Eric said, an Hermes towel is also a good gift idea for someone like Dax or Andrew who is impossible to buy something for.

And I said, yeah, but Dax wouldn't get it. He could care less. Also have to be careful about the way certain families use towels because they have to respect them. He said, he said, it depends if it really is a luxurious towel. He might embrace it like certain shorts or the matcha machine. It's like 50 50. And then he said, maybe it's 25 75. He doesn't get it.

I'm so glad you're still Eric and I have had this exact relationship for 12 years. This is how ours began, but it would all be a stuff. But yet once you enter into the cyclone with Eric on text, it's insane how long they all are. And it's so fun. Yeah. And you two are, I was participating in writing two page texts. And again, he's the only person I do this with. Yeah. It's really fun. He has such a fun mind. He does. He does.

And then I was reminded that you got a shirt from Panay that was, I think, Gucci. Gucci sweater. Yeah. And you love that. I love it. In some ways, he's right. A little bear on it. Yeah. He is. He is. I'm a fraud.

So I think you're going to love the towel. Okay. I got to keep it away from my rascal children, though. It'll end up around Groot in a mud puddle in the backyard as Groot's dress. That's my worry. You know, Delta loves Groot so much, and she decided to bring a lot of outfits for Groot. You know, he doesn't—there are no outfits made for him specifically. Of course. There's no accoutrement on that toy line. He's notoriously nude. Yes, and so she's been, like, scavenging from different toy lines and—

and has cobbled together this great wardrobe for him. He's a lifeguard. Oh. He has a beautiful dress. Ooh. Yeah. He has so many looks. And so the whole time in the motorhome, he kept coming up front, and he had to be in a new look. Oh, my God. Yeah, it was adorable. I mean, maybe for Christmas, I could buy some Hermes. You should get him like a washcloth. An Hermes washcloth, but say it's a beach towel. Oh.

That's a great idea. It's probably $400. Yeah. You got to send it to an atelier to have it embroidered. It will be. Hermes is an atelier. It does have an atelier. I want to say one thing about those bags. What happens a lot, it happened at Charles Leclerc. It's happened to, I think, another driver. They have these watches, these million-dollar watches, and guys come steal their watches in broad daylight right off their wrists.

This has happened twice with F1 drivers in the last two years. Wow. Think how much harder it is to get a watch off someone's wrist than it is to grab a bag. I can't imagine. I can't believe these women feel confident walking around with 350 grand over their shoulder. I mean, okay, to be fair.

Most are not 350 grand. I just saw one that was. Because the other thing with those bags, like a luxury car, it appreciates it.

which is rare, right? Like as soon as you buy a, sorry, a coach bag, I mean, no shade, nothing against it. That depreciates as soon as you take it off the shelf and walk out the door. And our Mez bag immediately goes up in value. Well, I have heard this argument a lot over the years. And I want to be clear, most luxury cars don't.

There's only a handful that appreciate. Well, like one, you have one that does. And I only got it for that reason because it's had a three-generation proof that that's the trajectory. But-

I've heard that, and yet I've never met anyone who sold their stuff secondhand and made money. I hear this a lot from... Vintage cars? They make money? No, no, no, no, no, no. I've heard about the bags and the Gucci outfits appreciating. Like, I think it's a premise everyone's aware of, yet I've never met anyone... And I know a lot of women who collect this stuff. I've never met anyone who's actually sold one of these items for a profit. No, but it's a specific level. It's not like...

Any nice good will resell for a higher amount. But certain brands and certain specific items like the Kelly bag and the Birkin bag, they're both Hermes. They do. You can look on the resale sites. They're all way more expensive than the actual cost of the bag, which normally is like between $12,000 and $20,000. Right.

And then you can't get it on the resale market for $12,000 unless it's all busted up. But it is an investment. Like, that's why people get them. It's like a car. I mean, it is like a car. It's as much as one. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm in a pickle because I want to update you on a part of the trip. And I also think I don't want to. I don't think I should say who's at the trip. It feels like it's breaking some conduct.

I kind of agree. Yeah. But somebody is on your trip. I just want to update you that like, I'm really getting along with this person. I don't know how I'm supposed to feel. Okay. What do you think I should feel like properly? Like what is my best self feeling?

Oh, your best self would, I think, I mean, yeah, again, this is like the dream reaction is, oh, that's great. That confirms that the person I really like is kind of who I think they are because I'm a good judge of character and I'm like really bad.

drawn to the person. And then I guess a good version of you would be happy for me if I meet someone I like a lot. Yeah, of course. Yeah. And then also that just means probably some chance of them being closer in our circle. I mean, I don't think it's going to go that far, but... Yeah. You know what's weird? But you're feeling just jealousy that I'm getting to spend time with the person? No, listen. Okay. Listen, listen. Just hold your horses. Um...

Yeah, there's someone on the trip that means an awful lot to me. Yeah. And you sent me a text saying that this person was there. I think even in the text, I was like, I don't know if you're going to like this or... Yeah, exactly. I saw this coming a little bit. And every time you say that to me... Yeah.

Like when you preface it, I don't... You get defensive. I don't know what my actual feeling is because now it's prefaced with don't be mad, but maybe you will be. And so then I'm like primed. I'm already like, oh, I'm going to be mad, but I can't be. Yeah. When I say that, it's probably a, what do you call a pre...

It's like a pre-apology. So it's like, I think this might make you happy. So I want to share it with you or excited. And then I'm also aware of that. It could upset you. So I'm like pre-apologizing if I was wrong. Like I'm basically going like, well, I'm rolling. I've decided to roll the dice that I think you're going to like this. And then I'm sorry if you don't.

If I was wrong about it. I mean, in this case, if you hadn't told me, I would be mad. Yes, that's what I'm, that's actually what I was juggling. I mean, you made the right decision, but it would be crazy if you didn't tell me. I would definitely feel like, oh, you don't think about me ever. Right.

Right. This is exactly the sitch I was in. With also some realistic expectation that you also won't like it on some level or potentially. Yeah. It's complex. It is. It is. It's very complicated. I'm happy that you made a new friend. Yeah. And...

and of course I'm happy that this person is what I thought this person was, but also I already knew that and know that. Yeah. Um, am I jealous of the time you get to spend with this person? Of course I am because I think this person and I would be great together partners. Yeah. Um,

you know, it's like an identity thing a little bit. It's like, oh, that person's my person. Sure, sure, sure. Like, you can't become best friends with that person. That person lives in my brain. In my pants. Uh,

As a thing, as a very specific thing. Yeah. And if I reverse the roles, I can admit too that, yeah, if you were somewhere for a week with Brad Pitt. Exactly. God willing. I know you're likable and there's some chance you two are going to become best friends when I really wanted to be best friends with him.

I'm going to feel like, yes, somehow I lost or. Right. But that's not, I really, I actually don't feel like that. I'm just saying how I could have a knee jerk of like, oh, well, great. Now she's best friends with Brad Pitt. He's not going to be best friends with me. She just filled that slot. I also,

I also feel, I feel pretty certain this person and I are never going to be best friends. Yeah. For many, many reasons. Yeah. But I just really want this person to really like me. Uh-huh. Right? Yeah. And love with me a little, but mainly just like me a lot and respect me and admire me. Yeah. And.

You just have the opportunity right now to do that. And I don't. Yep. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. It'd be like if you were, you know, you were racing jet boats in Australia, I'd be happy for you and very jealous. I wasn't getting to race jet boats in Australia. Have I come up? Yeah. Has that crossed your mind? Yeah. I've definitely said, like I told, of course, like, oh, Monica and I went to India with Bill Gates.

Hit them with a couple of the great Bill Gates stories. Okay. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I've said your name multiple times. Okay. And I just wonder if you've mentioned like how good I am at connections and stuff. Not yet, but there's a day left. Yeah. Okay. Maybe tonight at dinner that'll come up. Okay. We've said enough about that product because it's so obvious now. But at any rate, I'll...

The only other thing I'll add is I took the girls whitewater rafting yesterday. So Lincoln and I have been the previous three years we go. And that's Lincoln's favorite thing. And so this year, Delta decided she wanted to try it. Wow. Good job. Good for her. With a good deal of nervousness about it. And then, of course, as I would do, too, as the older sibling, Lincoln wasn't helping. Right. Because.

You know, I'm sure she preferred. Yes, I'm sure she preferred that just her. Oh, my God. It all circles back. We all have our things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very, yeah. Very human. Very human, natural, normal. Anyway, so we go there and we get on the boat and she's not, she's, I can tell she's definitely having second thoughts. And we go through the first little ripple and she goes, I don't like this. I don't want to do this. I'm like. Yeah.

I'm like, what is the perfect answer? Because I've got to be realistic. Like, well, honey, that ship sailed. This is a two-hour thing. And there's really no getting off this. It's two hours? Yeah. I think so. Yeah. And I just try to reassure. I'm like, these never flip. They flip like once a season. I've been a bunch of times. It's never flipped. If it flips, who gives a shit? You know I'm going to swim right to you and grab you. You're in a life jacket. Yeah.

You know, let's just walk through all the things. Anyways, by the third rapid, she really liked it. And by the end, there's a 10-foot rapid, like there's a 10-foot wave you go up. And it's actually when they take a picture of you from the banks. Oh, nice. And Delta's like head up, staring at the thing, screaming with excitement. Yeah.

It ended and she's like, I want to go again. Can we go again tomorrow? And, you know, I like it because they like it. I've now done it four times, you know. It's great. It's great.

It's a great thing. Two hours is long. Also, you know, I don't have a steering wheel in my hand. It's like I'm on the side rowing. The only part I have is I have a very loud voice. So I yell dig, dig, dig when we're supposed to be paddling really hard. So yeah, I'm not, I'm just a passenger. I'm not in control. So maybe that's why I don't love it as much. But you know, it's, it's totally fine. But I did not want to go again today. But Lincoln went twice. She went on, she went by herself the day before.

Yeah. Good for her. She loves a thrill. She's riding her little dirt bike back and forth to the lodge. Cute. Oh, I'm dying. I'm just dying. It's so sweet watching them become little people. And, you know, there's teenagers here and it's stressful and we're getting into preteen. Yeah. Who's, you know, do they like me? All this stuff. It's all so sweet. And, oh.

I know. It's tough. It is. You kind of forget what it's like to be a year or two younger than the teens and how...

self-conscious you get and am I wearing the right thing? Am I doing the right thing? If you're wearing your mes, you are. Like last night, we did karaoke and the little kids sang first. So first it was little kids. They sang for a while. It was so cute and adorable. And then was teens. Teens had to sing. And you know, those teens, they want to get up there and sing, but no one wants to hold the microphone. Yeah.

And you're just like, oh, yeah, man. There's just this phase of your life you go through where you're so self-conscious. So self-conscious. Half of me is like really nostalgic for how fun it was to be a teen and go places and go see if there was other cute teen girls. So I'll get focused on how fun and nostalgic that is. And then I'll willfully neglect how much awkwardness where you're like you're standing in a room and then you decide I'm just going to go stand in another room because I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah.

God. It is constantly moving from like room to room, hoping you feel mildly comfortable in one of the rooms. Oh, my God. Oh, it's so cute. Life is cute. Oh, my God. It's cute and stressful. Yeah, it is.

Okay, I want to do some facts. Yeah, let's get to some facts. We did a lot of fashion. We did a lot of jet boat stuff. Never enough fashion. But you said pre and post that dinner, meaning your now life is all about Hermes and... I've changed. Yeah, I'm forever changed. It's like maybe...

If someone had asked me before, would you ever get a Birkin? I would say no. That's ridiculous. By the way, I think we should add for some detail with Eric. It makes a thousand percent sense, even though he is not into style at all. Like I would say the least. The least.

But this is a man who has collected rare meteorites. He's collected bonsai trees. He collects fucking tortoises. He's collected everything that could be collected and appreciate in value. So, of course, he loves this. Of course. Yeah. And I told him to keep an eye out for any Birkins or Kellys. Deals. Deals and steals. But also, I don't want to do a deals and steals. I want to be invited to buy one. Okay. And so, I think I'm...

I'm really going to have to put in the work. Okay. And I think I'm going to have to start buying a lot of stuff and become like a customer. I think that's how it works. No, don't do it. Don't do it. You say that you're going to love that tiger towel. Play pickleball instead.

Still haven't learned. I did ask Lincoln. She said she would teach me. Oh, she would love that. Okay. Now, this is for Kirby. Kirby. Just love Kirby. Yeah, I know. She's great. What is self-centered? No, that's not the right word. Self-assured? Self-centered? No. No, no, no. Scratch that. She is not at all self-centered. Oh.

No, she is self-assured. Yeah. Yeah. Very self-assured. That's such an attractive quality in people, isn't it? It sure is. Okay. So I looked up the most popular color for clothes. Oh, ding, ding, ding. Fashion. Yeah. And it says it depends on, varies by region and time of year. Okay.

But some of the most popular colors are blue, classic color. Sure. Black. Primary. Yeah, these are all neutrals kind of. So blue, black, navy, neutrals, and heather gray. I love heather gray. I do too. If it's dark, if it's like a dark heather gray. Like it looks like it's been worn in like an athletic shirt. Yeah, but also gray is tricky for sweaty people. Yeah, and penises.

I didn't know this until Jon Hamm was on, but so many people in the comments were like, oh, he knows what he's doing with those gray sweatpants. Then I came to find out gray sweatpants is a thing you wear if you want to show your dick off.

What? Yeah. I learned that all from the comments. Does it have to be? Oh, my God. I need you to take a break from the comments. What are you talking about? It's like a third of our content is my reaction to the comments. No, I know. I don't. It's too much. Listen, does it have to be gray? We wouldn't have found this out. Does it have to be gray? Yeah. Apparently gray photographs nicely to show the dick. Oh, my God. I mean, you can see where definitely black would not.

Yeah, but white I would think would be the most. First of all, I don't think anyone wears white sweatpants. So this might be the- I do. Yeah, I can't picture any guys that I, I mean, I have no images of dudes wearing white sweat, but regardless-

White might even be too bright in that. It doesn't cast any shadows. I don't know. The conclusion is gray sweatpants are the pants if you're looking to show off your junk. Really contours. Yeah, really outlines it nicely, I guess. Okay. You got to know I did have to talk myself out of buying some gray sweatpants when I learned this. I think that's...

I'm like, wow, this is what everyone's doing. I don't want to be left behind. Everyone's getting their dick out there. Oh, my God. Okay. What are the most popular colors in the world? A worldwide survey reveals that blue is the most popular color in 10 countries across four continents.

Do you think people naturally love blue because the sky is blue and water is blue? Maybe. I mean, it just has a calming effect. Yeah. Like red means danger, lava, fire. Passion and love. Sure, sure. Which there's a time and place for, but I don't know if it's in the work environment. Just like gray sweatpants are hot. If you're wearing gray sweatpants to work, HR needs to pull you aside. Listen, Michael, we've all seen your dick now. It's time to...

Not wear those anymore. We all saw. You can put those away. Yeah, we all got a nice mental image what's happening. Okay, now I found the National Enquirer commercial. This is unfortunate because, you know, we're on Zoom. You can't see it, but I will play it. Okay.

How was a photographer injured in a brawl with Madonna? I want to know. Will Jeff and Fallon's marriage be the TV wedding of the year? This week's National Enquirer tells you. What are two surefire tricks to become more creative? It's in the Enquirer. How can you tell if your mate really loves you? Find out in the Enquirer. Over 100 features for people's inquiry time. Okay, so you couldn't hear it, I guess. Hold on.

Okay, you couldn't hear it? It didn't work. I heard a first frame of it and then I didn't hear anything the whole time. Well, it was pretty quiet. Okay. Maybe. But I think the people heard it. Okay, great. Well, you'll find out when you listen back. Okay, women's and men's brains, the way they respond to hungry infant cries.

This is from NIH.gov. This is very trusted. Researchers asked men and women to let their minds wander, then played a recording of white noise interspersed with the sounds of an infant crying. Brain scans show that in the women, patterns of brain activity abruptly switched to an attentive mode when they heard the infant cries, whereas the men's brains remained in the resting state.

And then previous studies have shown that on an emotional level, men and women respond differently to the sound of an infant crying. Our findings indicate that men and women show marked differences in terms of attention. The earlier studies showed that women are more likely than men to feel sympathy when they hear an infant cry and are more likely to want to care for the infant. And men want to stop the sound. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah.

Oh my God. You got to start watching this doc called Perfect Wife. Have you heard of it? No. Oh my God. I think Erin Lee Carr is a producer on it. I don't know if she directed it, but I saw her name in the credits. Ding, ding, ding. Why? Is that an X fact? No. Oh, cool. She's a friend of the pod. Oh, yes. Yes. That's why I said her name is if everyone wouldn't know it.

Okay, so it's on Hulu, three-part doc. The beginning, a man comes home, his wife's not there, his kids aren't there. He pings her phone, it's on the side of a road in Redding, like rural, rural Redding, California. He drives there and finds her phone on the side of the road and then she's missing. That's where it starts.

And it is wild. It's absolutely wild. It's really good. Now, highly recommend. Yeah. Do watch. Do watch. We'll watch. Okay. Picasso's quote is learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist. Ooh,

Nice. Yeah, I like that. Nice. Can I just say, I think ours would be the almost polar opposite of that quote, which would be like, come in as an artist and try to figure out how to be a pro. Right? I think. I went from like just being interviewed and like thinking I should be talking 75% of the time to like figuring out. Going from being an artist to...

you know, a professional. A professional. Yeah. Yeah. So mine was learn how to be an artist so you can learn how to be a professional. I see what you mean. It's weird advice. Yeah. But I love this quote and I also agree with it in general in life. You should probably learn how to do everything by the book first. Like know that. And then you get to play and know when you can break these rules. I was even thinking that with editing. Like,

In this episode, I left one of your coughs in, which I normally never would. So like a rule would be to cut it. But I left it because it had a funny enough moment after that I decided was worth keeping. So that's my artistry. There's just so much information in the way you phrased one of your coughs. Like if you were just...

Hearing us for the very first time and someone heard how you phrase that, they would know my whole history with coffee. Because you didn't say, I left in a cough, you coughed, and I left it in. You said one of your coughs. Jesus Christ. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

Well, you have a trademark. I'm a warthog. Okay. I looked up hearing loss and unfortunately it looks like it can start to decline as early as our 30s and 40s. But typically around the 50s to early 60s. It's a rough road for us entering those decades. The eyesight's just in a fucking nosedive. If I start losing my hearing too, I don't know how I'm going to manage.

Especially with the career we've chosen. Well, luckily we have headphones. What if I'm like literally half and you said I had to cut out one of your, what was that? Oh, no. I had to cut out one of your, would you repeat that? Yeah.

What if I had to start sitting increasingly closer to the guest? Oh, my God. That'll actually be sweet. It'll be a really nice marker of time. Yeah, I guess our guy, Larry King, he was pretty darn close to those guests. Yeah. Yeah. He was almost face to face. True. That's all the facts. Okay.

Well, again, I can't put too fine a point on how much I love Kirby. Very self-centered. Very self-centered. So self-centered.

All right. Well, I love you. Well, I hope you enjoy your last day and I hope you maybe bring me up like at least half a dozen times before you go. Okay. Yes. And I want to add, if you're listening to this and you're a cat burglar, I'm home by the time you hear this. And I need you to know that homeowner is also a bow and arrow owner. So yeah. And other weaponry. Yeah. But also that's for real. You are home. Yeah, I am home now.

All right. I love you. Okay. Love you.