Jude Law
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Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts, or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard, and I'm joined by Ms. Monica Law. Hi. What's up?

What's that? If your name was Monica Law and you were like a DA in a town. I would have, if that was my last name, I would have no choice but to go into either law enforcement or- Prosecution. Yes, or Supreme Court. Or Supreme Court. Or physics. There's a lot of laws in for that. Oh, sure. Sure. Jude Law, though, is not a failure, despite not going into jurisprudence. I just want to make that very clear.

He is a Tony and Academy Award nominated actor. The Tale of Mr. Ripley, The Holiday, Sherlock Holmes, Fantastic Beasts, Cold Mountain, and a movie that he is truly, from the bottom of my heart, spectacular in, Chameleon. This happens once in a while. It certainly happened with Vice. Do you remember Chaney? Yeah. And you're like, you're trying to find...

Christian Bale in there. Is that is he in there? Jude pulls that off in this. He's it's such a kind of departure from what we've seen. And it's really a great movie. It's called The Order and it is out December 6th. OK, so it's a good bit of lead time. Put that in your calendar now. Also, he has a new series coming out on 12.3. He has a very busy December. He has Skeleton Crew is in the Star Wars universe on Disney Plus. Busy B. A lot of blessings he's giving us. Please enjoy Jude Law.

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Welcome to the Jungle.

After Santa Claus, codename Red One, played by J.K. Simmons, is kidnapped, the North Pole's head of security, played by Dwayne Johnson, must team up with the world's most infamous bounty hunter, played by Chris Evans, in a globe-trotting, action-packed mission to save Christmas. This is Christmas fun like you've never seen before. See Red One only in theaters November 15th. Get tickets now at redonemovie.com. He's an object to love.

I'm a little fatigued and a little frazzly, kind of jet laggy, slightly over-emotional. Oh, God! Oh, we love that. That's great for us. Over-emotional. You've got me right at the point. Over-emotional is a...

Perfect. That's our sweet spot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I start crying. Oh, let's hope. Fingers crossed. Have you had any tears? Oh, God, yeah. Plenty. I've cried in here several times. Our guests, too. We got a lot. I've never heard anyone cry on it. I feel like I've missed out. Yeah, we'll give you some. Anna Kendrick being number one. I just read an interview with her in an English paper, and she cried twice in the article. Well, she's very emotionally in touch. It's there on the surface, yeah. Yeah.

Are you jealous of that? Because I did not allow myself to cry for about 30 years. And then I think with having kids and a friend went to the hospital and it started, it just comes. But I'm like, yes, give it all to me. I really would love a full, I haven't had that yet. Yeah. Like ugly face. Embarrassed. Yeah.

- I thought you had it when you watched one of those female docs. - The Sinead O'Connor one, I was just like pouring tears. And then I do this thing again, 'cause I beat it out of myself. When I start, I go, I start laughing uncontrollably. So it was a mix of laughing and crying. What's your history with crying? - Good question. So there was definitely a time, and it's funny, isn't it, how it's related sometimes to being an actor. You wanna be able to cry as an actor.

And then the first time, if you're a kid and you're being asked to do it, it's kind of nerve wracking. And then you squeeze out a couple and you're really pleased. As a person, I was always emotional, but not a weeper. I am now. I just cry all the time. What are your... With great pleasure. When I'm happy, when I get just moved, music...

my kids, of course. I can genuinely now really empathize with characters I play and I can just tune in and it can just pour out. Really? I'm on the brink of being a bit gushy. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I need to rein it in a touch. In life or in performing? In life.

And I worry that that maybe is also to do with, I just feel like I've been tired for two years. Yeah, I was looking at your slate of things we're here to talk about. I don't know how you made them, but there's no way we can even get through all the shit that's coming out. I mean, there's three big, big, big projects all landing around the same time. A couple of them were very small when I made them. They had big ambition and they're being received in such a generous way that now I'm like, oh, it's going to be a busy year. Yeah, but the smaller ones that can be more

More draining. Yes. Well, less time, less money because they're small. They're usually high content of cerebral demand. Yeah. In the morning, you're crying. In the evening, you're kicking someone's ass. That's right. And then you're making love at lunch. You're like, fuck, I've done everything a human can do. That's right. In 10 hours because we're shooting French. And we have 22 days. And if we get bad weather, we're fucked. So you have the anxiety of it all. I just did a film with...

Ron Howard. We had a very tight budget and tight schedule. And he said the funniest thing. He said his plan B was shoot faster.

That was all it was like. There was no cover. Just go, go, go. And that's Ron Howard. That was Ron. Well, that movie, fuck it, we're right here. That is also a very un-Ron Howard movie. Yes, it is. It's Ron in that well-deserved chapter of his life doing exactly what he wants to do. It's a project he was curious about for, I think, nearly 15 years. And it was a tricky one to get made.

And it's like a modern Lord of the Flies-ish. It's set in the 30s, actually. It's a true story about a group of idealists led by this very eccentric doctor that I played. This guy...

saw the rise of fascism coming and wanted to get away he was an obsessed nietzsche fan and so he bought a little piece of land on the galapagos and moved there and lived literally like adam and eve for three years with his girlfriend made everything by hand caught rainwater to drink by grew crops

meditated and then he wrote these articles about his life sent them back and they got published and he became unbeknownst to him kind of a bit of a celebrity and suddenly all these acolytes turned up because the last thing he wanted was anyone to be there so suddenly his family arrived and then this bizarre woman arrived who claimed to be a baroness who wanted to take over the island they ended up killing each other so it's real yeah that story's true all the characters are real yeah oh my god this is how extreme the personalities are ritter who i play

extracted all his own teeth before he left because he didn't want any dental issues and wore metal shoes

dentures to eat with so i have these metal teeth and he was a nudist so he's sort of strolling around butt naked most of the time bionic teeth right with bionic teeth i mean the characters in it are larger than life and highly unlikable for most of it i found thrilling it looks awesome but it also doesn't look like any previous ron howard movie at all but it looks fantastic

People are loving that one, right? We debuted at TIFF. I think it's divisive. I think it's a challenging piece. I think it's not a spoon feeder. The characters are unusual. What they do to each other is pretty dark. But there's a really pure message in it. There are these three camps in the end. One is very much led by the head, one by the balls, and one by the heart. And it's very much about where and what we need to do to survive.

That's really what's at the heart of it. What do we need to listen to in ourselves to survive this crazy world? Yeah. Okay, now back to your crying. Do you have a couple... I'll just start.

So I have two that are going to guarantee set me off. One is when people are incredibly earnest in the face of how hard it is to be earnest. The Olympians were flying to the Olympics, some team, and they decided to reenact the video for

Call me crazy, but here's my number. So call me, baby. And they had choreographed it on the plane and the cameras moving. Everyone jumps out of their seat and they're singing. It's just a group dance. Yes, group dancing. Group dancing, this wedding proposal that was very much like that. I'm like, you know, there's so many assholes in the world that want to fucking beat you down for expressing that exact.

kind of thing. And when I see people be brave enough to just do it anyways, I start crying. I'm like, that is so sweet that in this mean ass world, you still sing Call Me Crazy. Yeah, yeah. And there's an unapologetic joy and innocence, actually. It's people just going, I'm having fun. Not the sort of cynical, yeah, but am I cool? I get that. Absolutely.

A, how well do you understand American schools and how much were the English schools like it? My junior high, you just got fucking beat down if you showed any earnestness or you declared you liked something. Oh, same in the UK. Okay. I thought that was a very British thing. Enthusiasm, no. No.

Yes. I mean, to be passionate and kind of get it all over excited and people then be looking at you going, calm down. You were emasculated by liking something. That's right. That's very familiar to my experience of growing up, actually, because I am an enthusiast. I've realized and unapologetically so the older I get, I love allowing my enthusiasm to burst forth passionately.

And sharing it. And I love seeing it in my kids. You know, I love it when they get overexcited about stuff. But it is interesting looking back over childhood. Do you have any daughters that are consuming Taylor Swift in front of you? Actually, I do. She said to me just the other day, she was number one. I urge you to watch...

the era's movie with her. And experience it. Yeah. I took my 11-year-old to the theater to watch it, and about six minutes in, I stopped watching the movie and just stared at her in profile and wept the whole time. What is that zeitgeist that she's plugged into? It's very interesting, isn't it? Because I think I'm right in saying it's not planned. She's not manipulated it. It's very authentic and real. She's just so relatable, just...

to all eras of women and ages of women. As you said, it's not manufactured. No. But she is a brilliant business person. They can coexist, right? Absolutely. Authenticity and then just being able to see it as a business and monetize it. Yeah, Pulp Fiction was still a hit. Totally. And it's still a genius. And it's pure. It's just, she knows, oh, this is how I connect. And she likes to. She talks to people. She holds these singing events for big fans.

Like she really is connected and people feel very seen. I have seen the movie with my daughter and I went and saw her live. And so my conclusion, I think there's three things. One is she isn't Beyonce. Beyonce is this creature that fell out of the sky and she looks like that and she dances like that. And most people can't ever imagine themselves being that.

So there's this kind of, wow. So how did she get there? Well, she got there through her gumption and hard work and her skills as a writer and her dedication. I could do that. I could be a star. That's, I think, a big part of the appeal. And then she might be the only true, true matriarchy that we can observe, that a little girl can observe, which is it's her fucking world.

She's got the biggest tour in the world. She makes the rules. That's a fucking woman in total charge of everything. She's like her own one woman matriarchy. And I think that's really powerful. And she's not abusing it either. No. Yet. Yeah.

We're just in the foothills of this world domination. There'll be a hot pool boy at some point. Do you reckon it's linked also to something you just mentioned, which is the Olympic team performing in an unabashed way? There's also something uncool, weirdly, because of course she's ultimately cool, but there's also something uncool about her. I couldn't agree more. Which makes her incredibly cool. It's like, I'm having fun and I'm doing what I want to do. It's not considered to the element of like, is this going to be seen as being overly considered? I think it's...

I think it's just very different than the other pop stars they were given, which are largely you either hit the genetic lottery or you didn't. I think that's very special. Yeah. What thing are your kids into that you've joined them in?

And kind of got wrapped up in, because for me, it's this swift thing. Like I went, I get it. I'm in. Well, by two little ones, Bluey. Bluey. I'm hearing that. I weep at Bluey. I love Bluey. You do. Tell me what happens in Bluey. That came right after my kids left that space. Nine and 11. Yeah. So at an age where suddenly actually that is for little ones and they're not

quite old enough to realize actually they can indulge themselves like a 50-year-old guy. Right. But you're the second adult I've heard say they love Bluey. Bluey is, at its heart, it's about families playing together and enjoying each other's company.

and making time for each other and coming up with crazy make-believe games. And then there's occasionally little morals at the end of it. The kids teach the parents something or the parents teach the kids something or some kind of equation within that. It's got really good humor and great heart and it's made in Australia and it's about an Aussie family of dogs. And it's got this beautiful Aussie grounded earthiness and humanity. And they embrace the dad banditry

Bandit, wonderfully. Bandit. He's not an idiot. You know, it's interesting if you look at quite a few of those kids' shows, even Simpsons early on. There's a trope. And Pepper. The dad's a bit of an idiot. He's a dumb dad. Oh, dad. And in this one, Bandit, they laugh at him.

And he is kind of smelly old dad, which, you know, is familiar to me. But he's right in the middle of the play and right in the middle of kind of being a bit of a hero, too. It's just got beautiful heart. They know the parents are watching and they know the parents need to be entertained, too, because kids are going to want to watch this every day if they're allowed. Those are such blessings when you can enjoy it. Yeah. So Bluey wrapped us up pretty tight as a little troop. I'm going to give it a viewing. I want to see. It's well worth it. It's well worth it. I bet I'll cry. If I watch it.

walk in and you're like just on your own. That's me.

Okay, so if England is like the U.S. in smacking down earnestness, you start acting at 14? Kind of. Because people ask me, like, did you know? I'm like, I stayed so far away from that drama department. I didn't want to get beat up by six guys. I was doing it out of school. It was more to do with my family. So my parents were teachers, but they were keen members of a local theater company. They were putting on plays, and my house was always full of people kind of rehearsing. And then I got involved as a kid, and my sister got involved as a kid. And it was just something we did.

So to me, it was this language that just felt very familiar and safe and fun. And I loved watching adults goofing around. And you were aware, like, oh, adults play as well. They can be silly. And it made them really human and magical in a weird way because it felt like play. I said magical, I suppose, in that sort of Peter Pan type way that it just felt like, oh, you don't have to necessarily grow up with earnestness or with some kind of sobriety. It could be goofy.

But I left school at 17 to act. So at school, school, I kept to myself. I was usually hiding under the stairs so I didn't get beat up. For real? Oh yeah, for real. That's where I had my lunch. Okay, hold on a second. Were you... We've had this in the past. No.

You had one or two of you. The way you said that was like, it's okay, you're safe, kid. I feel like the appetizer just arrived and it smells delicious. We've had some heartthrobs on that didn't necessarily identify with that when they were younger. And that's a very fascinating thing. I get it. I look back now. I was very pretty. I was called Jude. I wanted to be an actor. And I was also pretty cocky. I fancied myself a bit. But you can't fight the whole school. So after a while, you realize...

It's probably better to stay out of the way, especially when you're like 14 and the 18 year olds kind of just want you to shut the fuck up. Also, when I was young and older girls like me, those older boys wanted to fucking kill me. Older girls fancying this weird little kid. They don't get that. What's funny is what they like about you is that you're kind of artsy. So the solution to the other boys their age is like, I'm going to beat the shit out of them, show the opposite quality that she just told me she likes. That's right.

I just squashed him with my manhood under the stairs. It's taken me a while to remember that. And I was talking about it, I think, to one of my kids. And suddenly I remembered sitting under the stairs. And I had my friends with me, a couple of buddies who would come sit with me under the stairs. But it was just a lot easier. There's a funny thing about that relationship with the opposite sex at that age, because it's so uncharted.

You don't really know what you're getting into. All the stimulation that you're getting is firing, but you don't necessarily know what it's leading to. I'm talking pre-sex, obviously. That moment where you're getting something back, so that's good. What you're talking about is bringing something out of you. You can't even at that age necessarily say, I'm good at this or this is what I'm going to be or this is why people like, you know what I mean? It's all just happening.

You're suddenly alive. I found that girls were such a refuge from the boyness. I'm with dudes all the time and I'm jumping my bicycle and I have to fight this other kid. And then I talk to these girls and I could just be this whole other side of myself. And I love that side of myself. I have a fantastic big sister who was so generous with me. Natasha? Yeah, she's a painter and she's...

Just an awesome human being. But I look back now, I can't believe how generous she was with me. And she'd take me out with her girlfriends, take me to their parties. And that was a taste of what you're talking about. And a really influential mother too, who was loving. But you're so right. And really looking back and discussing it like this, so sad that there are these poor guys who had no idea that that side of themselves existed or weren't allowed to show it or had any interest perhaps in investigating it.

Just wanted to be the girl. Because I like that too. I was good at sport. I didn't mind a fight. I like getting my head bust, falling off things. But I love this other side too. And that to me made me good and whole. You were cute. You had an older sister. That's the biggest hack any boy can have is to have an older sister. Every boy I knew with an older sister did just fine. Interesting. But think of all these boys that weren't confident or they weren't good looking and

It wasn't even an option for them. They go home and their dad is like, don't do that. One male to the next just passes it on. That's right. Don't show that. You're weak. Yeah. Don't let anyone see that. Don't let anyone see that. Put that doll away. And then, yeah, it just continues on and on until someone breaks that cycle. Yeah. Breaking the cycle, that's a big part of my family because my parents were both adopted.

Both. Both were adopted. My dad actually literally, it's like something out of Charles Dickens, his childhood. And he had every excuse to be a total nightmare of a father because it was in his background. His life was one of being left behind, of being abandoned and sort of having nothing.

He just turned out to be the most incredible dad. Completely loved the family. Devoted to it. To the point actually where it was like, let me go. Let me go. My mum too. I bring up my parents a lot because I get really pissed off when people say, oh, well, this is what happened to their parents. It's a psych. I'm like, you know what?

That's a fucking excuse. You can always better yourself. You can always replace something or don't have to repeat something. I looked at him. He had it so tough. He had nothing. And he totally turned it around.

But it also makes sense if he didn't have that built-in family, that he would have cherished the one he built and not taken for granted because he didn't have it. And he was the youngest schoolmaster in London? Yeah, something like that at the time. Now, headteachers in the UK are very different to principals. They are still very much part of the teaching team and part of the ethos of the education environment and create more of the atmosphere of the school and...

He was very hands-on teacher. And that was in the 70s. He worked in an inner city school in an area of London where there was big black community. And he would just be like, who wants to go camping this weekend? And kids would just meet. He'd take me too and we'd just drive out of the city and go camping. Eight kids, ten kids. That can't happen nowadays. Nowadays it's like you need all the documentation. I hate to say it. I'm not letting my male teacher take it. No, no, sure.

Your dad was the good guy. He did it with my mom. I mean, they went as a couple. If they were both teachers, how did they feel about you dropping out of school? Well, they were passionate about theater and passionate about performance. So they knew that I was. And when the opportunity arose, the one conversation I remember us having was, look, if this doesn't work, will you go back? And I was like, of course. Did you leave for the soap opera? Yeah. You've done your homework.

Listen to me. One of my favorite things to talk to actors about is actors who have been on soap operas because at least in America, they shoot like a hundred pages a day. Yeah. It seems like the most insane experience. If you think about it, what a great place to learn. Fuck yes. I had done a bit of theater. I wanted to act

Someone saw something in me, asked me to audition for this thing. I auditioned, I got it. Next thing, exactly as you point out, I'm in this machine, churning out, demanding I know what the hell is going on. I don't know what a mark is. Find your light? What are you talking about? And learn the lines.

and deliver. Do they have the same crazy schedule in England as they have here? Oh, yeah. And do they pay you okay? Were you like 17 going like, I'm fucking rich. We didn't have a lot, you know, we were never wanting as kids, but we didn't like, you know, have much money coming in. I couldn't believe it. What were you doing with all that

Green at 70s. Did you spend any of it? Blowing it. Clothes or do you buy a cool car? No, I didn't drive for a while. A lot of records, clothes, just going out. Oh, yeah. Bringing friends. Coming out with friends. Probably never got better. Oh, my goodness. I was 17 living in Manchester in 1988. The Hacienda was down the road. There was the rise of stone roses and the happy Mondays. And it was a lot of fun. Suck it under the stairwell. Oh.

Oh, yeah. You came very far. Even then, you could have ended your career then and it would have still... I ran from the stairwell. Yeah. So you were in Manchester making it, so you had your own flat, I presume? I did. I mean, can you imagine? And that they were paying for, you know, they paid my rent. Oh, my Lord. Amazing. This is fun to talk about this. What's nice is with enough time passed, you look back and go, damn, yeah. Yeah.

And you want to run from it, right? I came out on a show called Punk, which was a reality show. And I didn't want anyone to bring that up for like 10 years. Isn't it funny? Because it sits too close. It's like looking at photos of yourself when you're a kid and you've only just turned like 15. You kind of go, I'm an adult now.

I don't look like that anymore. I'm a big boy now. Yeah. It was a very formative time. And I love that you bring up the actual technical demands. They're a big part of what you're learning from. I went from that back to theater. I learned so much from that job. Yeah, you probably shot more. Is that water? Yes, it is. Looks like beer, but it is water. It sure does. We can get that.

We can get one of those for you too. Really get you crying. Yeah. Nine or 10 of them in you. I'm cheering up now. I'm not gonna cry, I'm afraid. You're cheering me up too much. Oh man, Dax. But if you added it up in two years, you probably did more content

than you did for the next eight years doing features. It's true. I did it for a good few years. You probably did several hundred hours of acting. And how was your ego then? Were you insufferable? Yeah. I think most people would have been at that age. Yeah, 17 with your own apartment. Going to the pub and you're fucking buying rounds. Yeah. That's a really good question. And I'll be absolutely honest, one I've not kind of thought about.

Oddly, actually, I think I would be right in saying that my ego was probably a little more out of control before I got that job. And I was a member of like the youth theatre company. When I got into the theatre and doing all this stuff as a kid, I felt so confident that I'd found my place and sort of fitted in. And it was so different to that experience of school that suddenly I was like, I could fly. I knew I was pretty good at it. Yeah.

I knew I was good and that I was getting good parts and I was getting good response, but I wasn't in the professional domain. Once I'd stepped into that and there were adults suddenly in this show and there were people who had huge experience, I was always quick to sit back and be very happy to learn and watch. Having said that, I have a very clear memory of one of the women in it who was slightly older than me, just by a few years, but I remember telling me to cool my boots. Oh, wow.

But she was probably just nagging you because she liked you. Yeah, probably. That's my guess in retrospect. I think she was probably right. What if it was like Cate Blanchett? You just go, yes, Cate, sorry. Well, you basically just described, you were like a star college athlete, and then you got to the NBA, and you're like, I need to recalculate just a bit. I'm going to have to learn a bit. It's interesting, too, isn't it, when you're a kid in an adult world, but you're being paid to...

So you're being treated like an adult, as you should be. I've got to really step up here. Behave like an adult, fit in like an adult, watch and learn. Yeah, they're not taking it easy on anyone. Not with that kind of... They don't have time. No, even if they wanted to be. I remember being late once. I think it's like the only time I've ever been late because I could just tell it was not done. And that's never happened again. Okay, so you leave that and then you get yourself in a play that...

ends up in the West End. And then ultimately Broadway with a different title and a little bit of reworking. Yeah. You have a couple kind of breakthroughs and that play certainly, yeah. You win a Lawrence Olivier Award at some point. Or something like that. Newcomer Award. Newcomer Award. That was a game changer. I'd done a bunch of theater shows

leading up to that in these wonderful, what we call off West End, like off Broadway theater houses around London. Most of them tended to be above pubs, but very famous theaters at the gate, the Royal Court upstairs and several others.

That was a place I really lumped my chops. I mean, that was doing proper theatre with fantastic directors and actors around me and the discipline of theatre, which is so much an actor's medium, learning how to turn up every night and deliver it and really...

feel the room and that led to Les Parents Terribles which I did at the National Theatre. Yeah and then it became Indiscretions. Indiscretions. They thought that the Broadway audience wouldn't understand Les Parents Terribles so they called it Indiscretions. Stupid Americans. They might have been right because when I read the title of it this morning I was like I don't know what the fuck that means but I know what it is. I said they should have just called it The Terrible Parents. Yeah there we go. I could have got on board with that.

But then you go and you do it on Broadway and there's some great people in that cast, right? Yeah. They recast and asked me to join the cast. Were you the only person who went over? Yeah, that was a little awkward. Yeah. Did you feel like survivor's guilt from that? I did. Only in front of the ones that I was leaving behind.

Then when you met these other folks, you're like, thank fucking God they replaced. It was an amazing experience actually doing it again because you know a piece and it's sort of in your system and then you get to re-rehearse it, rediscover it with a whole new group of people. I have never noticed this about you in the past, but now that we're sitting face to face, you have the exact same eyes as Joaquin.

Really? Has anyone ever told you that? No. Fuck, it's driving me wild. That's crazy. It's very fun. That's interesting. Yeah. That's exciting. I don't really know Joaquin. I've met him a couple of times years ago. I don't really know him, know him. I'm surprised you guys haven't worked together. Yeah, I would be. I hope so. There's not a flame retardant enough lens to capture them both in a two shot without the thing fucking exploding. That's fine. Although.

So he's been in the movie with my boyfriend. Oh, we're going to get to that. His big breakthrough. Her boyfriend's Matt Damon. You'll have to check out the bathroom at some point. Don't tell Lucy. Don't tell Lucy. Okay. There's a big standee of Matt in the bathroom. Kissing Monica on the floor. Pretty good. Pretty good. A standee? Yeah. Should we bring it out?

Yeah, let's pull him out for this interview. He won't mind. Let's get him on the scene. You're going to like this. I've known Monica for a long time and I've never, ever seen this look on her face. Look at that. That's just fantastic. I've got to tell you. Best moment of my life. He looks comfortable and he looks very happy. I like to think so. You know what's weird? I'm wearing this skirt.

In that, you can't see it, but I think that's the last time I wore this skirt. Oh, wow. Well, good for you. Is it your lucky skirt? I guess so. Oh, my God. I'm expecting a shot with you and Jude that's going to rival that. Maybe we'll get a second stand. It's a talented Mr. Ripley skirt. Yeah, that makes me proud of you because you buy a lot of clothes, and I worry you're not wearing the ones you've already bought, and this demonstrates that you- That's a fair worry. Once every five years, do that. Yeah, sure. When did it start? What was the performance and why? You know. Good luck on the game.

I wish I wanted to know the gas. It was what? Good Will Hunting. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yes, and I watched it. Fair dudes.

So many times VHS, I just watched it and rewound it and watch it and rewound it. And I could like watch it in my head. I had seen it so much. In school, she would be in class and just watch the movie from beginning to end. Kind of like just glaze over and just watch it. On the inside. On the inside of my eyelids. There's a connection between that character and a little bit of what we're talking about or have been, isn't there? The guy breaking the mold, the guy who could end up on one path and actually needs to rewire and he,

makes his own path. Also, my conclusion, I have a theory on everything, as you'll learn. That was one of my favorite movies as well. It was my girlfriend of nine years and I's first date was going to see that movie. So it was also special for that reason. But...

I left and I was like, why is that movie so powerful? I think it's because we all think we're special and we're just waiting for someone to notice. And he was just so special and no one would notice. And he's a janitor. And then finally, and I think there was some wish fulfillment in that movie that was really sweet, which is like, I'm special too. This could happen to me in some version. I have a genius too. And even if it's not intellectual, it's just, I'm worthy of someone finally acknowledging I'm special. We all want that. We do.

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I realise there's a bit of a connection there to my father's story, actually. I wonder whether he's seen that recently. He was given a chance to sort of walk away from a life that would have taken him on a completely different path. He got that opportunity and he took it. Yeah, it runs deep, that film. And they wrote it. That's the part that's like, oh, my God. Oh, I bet that was the clinching. When you saw it and you loved him, not only was this kind of movie star performance...

The guy wrote it, which means he's really bright. Yes. And he went to Harvard. Yeah, and he's so funny and hot. Yeah. He's so strong, too. Did you see School Ties? No, is that the one he was in right before? He was in School Ties. Yeah, great. But actually, with Talented Mr. Ripley, I know we're not there yet. We're really close, though. Okay. This play he does where he gets nominated for a Tony, I can land the plane on that, and that opens up the door to Talented Mr. Ripley. Proceed. Well, I was just going to say, because I was so in love with him, that movie was tough.

He's so good in it, but he's so disturbing. Yeah, creepy. And that's not who I needed him to be. And he's gay, so he's not looking for you. That wasn't really the issue. It was more the real creepiness factor. And you were so good in it that I'm like, who do I, what's going on? Oh, shit. Now I kind of like my boyfriend's boyfriend. Yeah, yeah. It was too confusing. It was a lot for little old me. But he played it with such a charm.

charming innocence. It was so interesting seeing the Andrew Scott version because it's like Shakespeare. Good material can be interpreted in any way and they were just not related. I mean, it was so interesting. And Andrew found this sort of sinister psychopathy. Was that the new one? Yeah, the one on TV. Which was great, yeah. And you're right, completely opposite. Matt almost played it like

Please don't make me kill you. Oh, I'm so sorry. He apologized, smiling while he's doing it. Like, oh, I'm in this jam again. And I guess I'm just going to have to kill you. It was kind of loose and creepy. Even darker. It actually made it more believable you would have been sucked into his whole thing from the get go.

So does that opportunity come directly off the heels of that play? I know you were in Gattaca. Gattaca was a big turning point. I was really only doing theater and film just wasn't on my radar. I didn't really know how one got into film. And I loved theater and I was happy in theater, so it didn't feel like it was something I was seeking out. But a couple of little films came my way in the UK.

that led to Gattaca, which took me to Hollywood for the first time, coming and living here and making a film and rehearsing and shooting at the studios. Did you get on with Ethan? Oh, so well. I mean, Ethan was another great teacher in a way. Generous and a great leader and enthusiastic and smart. Talk about a guy who is chasing everything and critics be damned. I like poetry.

I like music. Written two books and just a great inspiration to be around for me at that early formative time. And then I did a few of these little movies. You were also in Night of the... Oh, yeah. Clint Eastwood, Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. Yeah. Which became weirdly... Yeah, it did. It did. I know. You're playing a gay lover of Kevin Spacey. Kevin Spacey, he kills me. Yeah, that's kind of weird. Yeah.

Moving on. Next project. Ripley came about. Chugging along. There's no way of moving on from that. I mean, it's as crazy as you having been in a movie with Bill Cosby and it was about him fucking drugging you. I mean, that's how bonkers that is. But we'll move on. That would be a question for Kevin Spacey. Acting in a film where you're also doing it secretly. Whoa.

Let's be clear, he hasn't killed anyone, though. That we know of, allegedly. Allegedly, yes. Allegedly, he hasn't killed anyone. You don't hear that often. No, you don't. Allegedly, he hasn't murdered anyone. Is that legally freeing? Yeah, you just say allegedly. Say allegedly to anyone. Yeah, before and after any sentence. You're fine. Remember, you said you liked my house, and the next time you see me, I don't have it anymore. That'll answer that question. Definitely.

Dax, you're downsized. Well, someone made that decision for me. And I guess in a way I made it for myself. Anyways. Okay, so how do you meet Mengele? I'm making a film that is being produced by his wife. This is at the point in my career life when...

I'm in my early 20s. I'm just happy to be asked to work. Are you going to pay me too? Great, I'll turn up. It was from Hong Kong. It was this weird film, kind of a vampire film, really. But they never kind of named him as a vampire, but he was sort of addicted to women's blood and you couldn't work out whether he was just a psychopath. Anyway, doing this oddball film and Anthony's watching the rushes over Carolyn's shoulders and he's casting Ripley and just reaches out and says, I think you'd be great for this role. Wow.

Wow. And that's how it started. And foolishly at the time, I'm thinking, I just want to be taken seriously as an actor. I've got so much to prove. I had this foolish agent at the time who said, look, this is just a kind of pretty boy role. Are you sure you want to go there? It'd be a big introduction to Hollywood, but you'll just be the kind of golden boy. And for a moment, I thought, maybe not. Maybe I shouldn't do this. Did you tell him to his face? I don't think I can do this, Anthony. I don't remember. I just remember there being a moment where

He came and saw me and we, over a period of days, because I was filming still, he would come and hang out and we would talk about it. He was pulling together this incredible cast, all of whom I knew, but they weren't household names. Cate Blanchett, had she done Elizabeth? We were all just on the cusp. Philip Seymour Hoffman, he hadn't even done Boogie Nights. He had probably done Happiness and Twister. And Hard Eight.

Oh, yeah. Was that P.T. Anderson's first film or early film? And Gwyneth had just done Shakespeare in Love. Wow. He was pulling together this incredible group. When you list those people in that junction, it's almost like the outsiders. It's like every one of you. Ended up doing huge stuff. Interesting, huh? Yeah. So of that cast, Matt was the big star. Yeah.

Yeah. It already sounds that you're this way. I know you do it with directors. I read enough about you. You really do a value yourself to instruction. What I've realized more and more is I'm just a very keen student. I love learning and I hope improving at what I do. And to me, film is a director's medium and I'm in their film. So what do you want from me and how do you want to get there?

I have a process, but I do a lot of that on my own. I don't impose that on what you want from me. And to me, each experience is an opportunity to say, okay, how do we do this? How do you do this? But Matt was absolutely the lead of that movie. And if anything, the challenge for me that I remember going through with Ant was...

to find the confidence to be that confident guy and have that swagger. Well, you got to be the dude that the movie star Matt Damon's in love with and wants to be. That's right. Anthony kept saying, I want you to glow.

I want you to glow, I want you to shine. And so finding that kind of sense of confidence, security was a challenge. Obviously it changed my life because the film was successful and critically acclaimed, but it changed my life also because Ant taught me about unleashing certain qualities in myself that I had, I think probably locked away actually. It felt like a kind of superpower.

that I've been scared to handle, which is sort of just turn on the charisma chops. Yeah, yeah. Do you think you were learning like, okay, you're not supposed to do this in real life, but it's permissible here. In this space, I can do all the things I've trained myself to stop doing.

That's it. It's like going back to the cocky kid who all the older girls like. Yeah, I guess it is. No, I was going to say it goes back to the board. You rewire and you think, oh, I'm allowed to turn all that stuff on that's been shut away. And it's similar, I suppose, when you play someone who's, say, very dark or sinister.

It's like opening up those chambers. You peek in there and you think, oh, I got to keep a lid on that. But it's interesting. It is allowed in this environment. It's a safe environment for you to unleash. I'll say you were given two gifts. One is you have a director who's already directed The English Patient. You know you're safe to do whatever and you'll be protected. That's not a gift a lot of young actors have from a director. No, that's so true. And it's something I've learned. In a way, you evaluate that at every juncture in film because sometimes you

You're looking at a project and a young director and you're thinking, well, you haven't proven yourself yet, but there's something here. And I know it's a risk and it could be three months just down the drain. Yeah. But let's go for it. And then other times, like a Ron Howard situation where you just go, well, this is Ron Howard. This guy makes films for breakfast. I'm going to learn and I can really just get on with what I've got to do because I know I'm in great hands.

And absolutely with Ant, that was the first time I was aware that was the case. Right. I have worked with a couple of decent directors before that. I think I was too young to recognize that I was in these qualified hands in a safe environment. Yeah, I'll never forget the first time that happened to me as I was working for Mike Judge, someone I idolize. And I'm like, if he tells me to stick a banana straight up my ass, then pull it out and peel it and eat it, I will do it. I actually trust his sense of comedy more than my own with

And it's a very fun feeling. It is a fun feeling. It's operating on so many levels because it's incredibly empowering that you're there anyway. You suddenly realize, oh, I really rate this person and they must rate me because here I am. And they're just telling me to do my stuff. And that alone emboldens you and empowers you. Well, you have to buy in. At first you think, oh, this person fucked up. Yeah.

This person I idolize thinks I can do something that I probably can't. You have to buy in. I think that's what was going on in those early moments of fear that, oh, I have to be really confident. I have to step up. Do you know who taught me a lot in that environment was Philip. Philip was so shocking to me because he was kind of rude. Yeah, he didn't have the best bedside manner, right? No. I'm someone who needs a really kind of safe, cozy atmosphere to feel like, okay, I can make a fool of myself here. I can cry. I'm safe. He quite liked it a little prickly, or at least in the films I made with him.

And what was interesting was he taught me that it's whatever it takes to get the truth, whatever it takes to make it real. I remember I had this amazing scene in Cold Mountain where it's the middle of the night, it's like 2am, it's getting cold. They've converted this whole town down in North Carolina back to the period. So there's mud all over the street and I've got this huge...

huge 18 hand horse in one hand and a gun in the other and the scene is I've got to move him down this street but I've got no hands Anthony says action from down the end of the road and he just turns around and goes I'm not moving that's what Philip said so I had to kick him so hard laughing

to make the scene work. And of course, it was just real. Yeah. But most people have been like, oh, pretend he just looked at me and I ain't moving. And so suddenly it was like, we're going to really do this, okay? Did you meet Ethan on that movie, Suplee? You probably never worked together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's one of my best friends. Are you kidding me? He's a lovely man. There was a very fond memory of that whole experience because true to Ant, he created a real family atmosphere and we were there in Romania for...

many, many months because he wanted everyone to really play the music. Jack White's in it playing guitar. The brilliant Brendan Gleeson was playing the fiddle. Ethan learned guitar or banjo or something. So we were all hanging out playing and singing those beautiful bluegrass tunes and he was a joy to be around. Yeah, special. Oh, he's heartbreaking in that film. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The scene when they shoot him stopped smiling at me. Oh, it's so sad. Your resume's insane.

Yeah, it's pretty bonkers. Even just like, we're just like talking about random ones. I'm like, oh yeah, that, oh yeah. What I think is unique about yours, I wonder if you agree, the great gift of your 25 years doing this is inordinate amount of really special directors. Clint Eastwood, Soderbergh I worship, Spielberg, right out of the gates. You've got to sit front rowed

Couple of times Scorsese. I know, crazy. Yeah, that's rare. I think even for huge movie stars, they've had three or four of the legends and you've really been with a lot of them. Yeah, fun. So after Ripley, and I already know because I've read, but your 20s, it's like you need to. I wouldn't even advise 20 year olds to not do this, but boy, you care so goddamn much. You're so certain of where you've got to go and what you can't be.

And so how hung up out of 10 were you about being good looking at movies? Yeah.

Which now we're both at 50. Listen, it was something that was also a crutch to lean on. But I realized looking back, I was in my head so much. And insecure, but also desperately ambitious to be recognized in an art form I love. Growing up watching Sean Penn, Gary Oldman, Daniel Day-Lewis, Tim Roth, these actors who I just wanted to fucking...

flex my acting muscle as much as them and show my ability to do different things and play different parts that it just felt like this distraction. And that if that's what people were thinking, or if that's all they were saying, well, it's a great part. He's this beautiful guy. I just thought immediately, Christ, this is all going to fall apart. If that's it, if that's the perception that is out there. It's the great comedy of life though, because it's like when you're old men, you're like, well, fuck, if I look like Harrison Ford, I'd be indie.

If you're you, you think this. We all got this stupid fucking story. And we got to be someone else other than ourselves. It's comical because it's happening to everyone. Brad Pitt's knocking his tooth out to be in Fight Club so no one thinks he's gorgeous. Yeah, yeah. Grass being green. I know it's a bizarre journey.

And then the dust settles as you head into your kind of late 40s. You look back and think, shit, I don't look like that anymore. Hey, just give me a couple more chances. If I just get a little nip and tuck. Yeah. Give me one more round. Yeah. My wife will say like, I should have done a lot of nudity.

before. You get past the point where you're trying to fight. You don't want me to get naked. I don't want to get naked. And then you can say, fuck, man, I blew it. I looked hot as shit. I should have been naked in everything I did. Okay, so the one I want to talk to you about, because I read the biography and I don't know if you have, but the Mike Nichols biography. Oh, yeah, I read it. Isn't it wonderful? What a book.

And I don't really read many Hollywood books, but enough people told me. Do you know, I had to read that because I wanted him in the room one more time. He was the most beautiful man. I remember before I worked with him, Ant actually knew him and said, you wait, you are going to hear the best stories. You are going to laugh more than you thought possible. And he was absolutely right. This guy's warmth and humor and perspective on the world, and then add to that this

boundlessly generous intellect. You know, really smart people that make you feel smart rather than make you feel stupid. They kind of bring you into their perspective and share it. And then all these crazy stories. I mean, also so naughty. So much bad behavior. The guy was a functioning crack addict while directing. Addicted to halocene and losing all of his finance. I mean, he was on a wild fucking ride. He touched every...

He did it all. He did it all and would talk openly. The rehearsal process for Closer was mostly him, and I realise now what genius he was. He was just...

talking about his experiences and making us all like hoot with laughter about his loves and losses and tragedies and what he was doing was creating an environment that was totally safe and free where when we then reenacted this pretty hardcore drama about falling in love and splitting up we were safe oh my god we laughed so much and another thing he did after we shot the film a

A couple of years later, we'd stayed in touch and I'd seen him a few times. And I was in a bit of a dark spot in my personal life, a little bit down. And I felt like work had gone a little awry. And I just felt like I was in a blip. I remember he reached out to me and took me out for this incredible lunch. It's like he just fucking knew. It gave me this incredible, generous perspective on life and the pendulum nature of life.

It swings here and then it swings back there. You just know it's going to swing back the NX way. Just hold on. And it was beautiful and very warm and much, much needed. That makes me so happy that he lived up for you to the guy I read about in the book.

And I was completely ignorant on Mike Nichols, other than I had seen his movies. I thought he was a movie director. I didn't know he had been a humongous comedian. Have you listened to them since? You must go and listen to Nichols and May recordings. I haven't. You can buy the recordings of their radio shows and you must look up

On YouTube, there's an acceptance speech, I think at the Emmys or something, where Elaine May presents the award for mundanity and Michael jumps up, runs down and accepts this award. But the two of them were rocket ships of intellect and humour. Groundbreaking comedians. Yeah.

Embarrassingly, I didn't even know that he came from being a comic. I mean, this fucking guy gets put on a boat at six years old with his little brother by himself crossing the ocean. He's got alopecia. And the fact that that dude turned all that into everything he did to break the gates of comedy the way he did and trample a new path and then say, I'm going to direct films and does Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? The Graduate.

Catch 22 onwards. I mean, what a talent. Oh, unbelievable. I recommend everyone read that book, even if you're not into movies or any of that. What a life story. To me, because I'm an addict. To me, the crack smoking is the best fucking part. Insightful, you mean, to who he was? Yeah, just I was a really high functioning addict myself. And I was getting A's at UCLA and getting into the groundlings and also smoking crack on the weekends. I applaud anyone for that.

and juggle those fucking bars. I mean, I couldn't. I had to retire at 29 from it. But I find that to be one of the most fascinating aspects of it is how much he was juggling. But equally, I can fully understand and I can recognize that need for everything. It's appetite for life, but it's also addiction. But it's how do I stop this? I want to consume it all. I want to feel it at the max until you realize it's at the detriment of health. Yeah, I want life to be an all-you-can-eat bar. And I'm just going back

up, up, up, up, up, up. Yeah, yeah. Oh, they just put fried chicken out. You already eat spaghetti. I don't give a fuck. Okay, let's go back. Yeah. Chicken legs. Oh my God, they have banana splits at this place? I'm having that too. With toppings. I don't want to miss a thing. Do you relate on the spectrum if Dax is a 10, which I think he is,

Where would you land on this needing... To gobble up everything. Yeah. I've definitely gotten better, but there was a time in my life when I was way up at sort of seven, eight. Did you ever scare yourself? Yeah. And I still do a little bit. I'm an Englishman, so I like a drink. It's your birthright. But then you get to an age where it's like, oh, this is a young man's game. It's got to stop. Young person's game. Sorry. Yeah.

Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, because I drink as well. She's on the ladder. Yeah, I get to observe people who stuck with it. I say this a lot. I feel worse for people who can ride the line of moderation plus because you don't have wreckage. There's really nothing you can point at to say this is taking more than it gives. But for everybody, even if you're moderate, there comes a point at an age where it actually is taking a little more than it's giving. And that's hard. You're absolutely right. And I think a lot of that is also just

how long you've been doing it. You get middle-aged and you just think, yeah, I just feel so much better if I didn't. And the problem is the social reliance, the crutch it offers socially. The lubricant. Is all those more years ingrained. The idea of going, oh, I've got to learn to go to these things sober. Oh, yeah. I'm 50. That's terrible. I just won't go. Or how about my big thing was vacation. I remember going with my girlfriend on vacation. I'm like, what?

Well, what in the fuck are we going to do for seven days? I know what's supposed to happen. We go to the bar, we get a few drinks, we meet weirdos, we end up doing this. That's the key you turn. I don't need plans. I need to check and diets. That's the plan. That for me was the hardest where it's like, I don't really even know what to do. I don't have a game plan to amuse myself without this. There's a pattern, isn't there, to, well, I can only talk for myself, when it works and

waiting for the time when you go, well, I'll reset then because I'm really good at keeping fit and healthy. It's a big part of my life. I love training. I love running. I love swimming. Well, it shows. Your physique looks fantastic. I have a note I'll get to in your new movie about your buns, but we'll earmark that. Oh, yeah.

Fully naked. But the reset of not having a drink because you've had a really hard day's work and you deserve, I really deserve this. The reset is not, okay, so I had a G&T last night. I still got up and I trained. The reset is no, no, no, no. You would just feel so much better if you just stop drinking.

It's a leap of faith, weirdly. Yeah. I'm really closing in on that. And funnily enough, I wonder whether a bit of it has been, I know you joked about my birthright as a Brit drinking, but that I've been living away from the UK for the last few years. That's a very solid footing because I've had many dudes in AA over my last 20 years who are English. Now living here. Yes. And they go, I go home and I tell people I'm an alcoholic and they're like, that doesn't even exist in England.

Conceptually, a lot of people even, what does that mean? I remember being in Italy, there was a British kid in our hostel.

and I was explaining to him I'm an alcoholic. And he's like, well, what does that mean? I go, well, you know, I'll go out and I'll drink a fifth of Jack and then I'll have a 12 pack and I'll get Coke. And he's like, yeah, I guess at home we would be proud of that. You're telling it like you're embarrassed by that, but we would very much be proud. And you woke up the next day. Part of the culture. Yeah. I do think culturally it's much different. It's why it's such an interesting time, actually. There are all these different perceptions of Gen Z and the

The parents' generation trying to get a handle on them. And certainly in the UK, I don't know if it's the same here, but their lack of wanting to get high. In the UK, they're always judging them. They're almost like, oh, they're so boring. You think, maybe they're just healthy. Maybe they're still going out and having fun. They're just not getting wasted. Maybe they like waking up and not recounting everything they said in the conversation with so-and-so and thinking like, oh my fucking God, is this worthy of a call? Yes, exactly.

That's a big shift, certainly in the UK. That's impressive. Yeah, it's happening here too. I keep reading that it's down, which has got to be good. Although I hope they go fucking hard for at least a decade like I did. I'm still delighted I went hard.

Well, I think it's because they're so much more emotionally regulated that they're not using substances to sort of fill the void. They have an outlet. They can actually talk. I think you're right there. The opportunity to actually share and analyze rather than you're either sharing and analyzing while you're high or you're hiding the need to share and analyze because you're high.

Well, again, that's why I like drugs. It was back to talking to girls. I sit down with you with an eight ball. I got no fear of telling you all my fears, my vulnerabilities. I'm impenetrable when I'm on coke. I'll give you the whole me. I'm not worried at all. That's what I liked about it. I liked the intimacy it could immediately give you with another male. Sitting down with some dude you just met and you're hearing about his dad. You know the shit you talk about on coke. You're like, your dad was a firefighter and I'm so interested. Yeah.

Yeah. What are you talking like? Did he come home smoky? Do you remember the stuff when you do? Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the many business plans I hatched. You're very entrepreneurial when you're on Coke. You've got a lot of good business plans.

Did you ever make promises though? Like start them? Oh, oh yeah. Oh yeah. I've written a thousand checks. My ass couldn't cash while gacked up for sure. Oh fuck. Well, while we're on this, the other one I just want to touch in before we get into the 10 new movies you have. Downey's a good friend of mine and

And so you got to do those two Sherlock's together. Oh, yeah. Was it a party? And I've also heard from I think was a Jake Gyllenhaal was telling us that guy has a set that's pretty fucking radical. Was that the case? Yeah.

I'm sitting back smiling because they were very, very happy experiences, those. First of all, it was an interesting time looking back because Iron Man 1 had just landed. And people forget that was the first big Marvel movie. First big Marvel movie. First big turnaround for Rob. So it wasn't like he had gone stratospheric, but it was pretty clear that the rocket ship was full of fuel. And everyone was standing around counting for 10. They were cleared for takeoff. Yeah.

But, you know, it was sort of happening. Yeah, it's a sweet moment you got to share with him. The sky again was open for him. Exactly. And Guy, too, was sort of figuring out this...

step up from these really cool... He's one of those directors who, it's hard to have a signature style. And you watch Five Minutes and you go, "Oh, that's a Guy Ritchie movie." - Oh, yeah. - Right? You know it straight away. Like Wes Anderson, he has his own particular style. I'm pretty certain in saying it's the first time he's sort of been headhunted and put in charge of a big piece with a big budget and a big movie star. And the first time I'd stepped up to something like that. So we were all sort of finding our way with all these new toys.

and it really was incredibly creative. We had a script that we used as a sort of blueprint. We'd go in, we'd improvise all morning, trying stuff out. I had this big tome of, I'd try to read most of the Holmes books, and I'd made all these notes of great little quotes between the two of them. So we had this sort of Bible, we called it, where we would look for banter between them that was pure Conan Doyle. And Diony was just coming up with the craziest ideas. He's on another planet. Right, and so fast, but also brilliant at

looking at something through a smart, funny lens, you know, like, but look at it from over here. How do we put that into the scene? And then we'd edit the thing down and go shoot it. That became our pattern. It was really creative. Oh, how fun. And what ownership you must feel over those movies. Absolutely. And then to get to do it again, felt like this oiled machine. It was like suddenly the engine was running and we could just accelerate again, again, again. It was a lot of fun. And one I really hoped we'd do again. I mean, there's been a lot of

about whether we will with scripts that have come and gone. But at the moment, I don't know. Oh, you must. I hope so. Also, what an easy thing to greenlight. The charisma between you two motherfuckers. Like, I might even argue you're the only person with as big of a sparkle. Downey's such a weird little fucking unicorn. God, is he a special weirdo. And I'm going to add, just to bring him back down to life, he's also a dumbass.

So he's like the most brilliant person you met? Like, I'm sure he was giving the most brilliant ideas and I bet he was hitting you with a couple of like, what the fuck are you talking about? You want crystals in this scene? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's where the genius lies. And it goes back a little bit to, we've mentioned some of the great film actors and directors already in this conversation, but being bold and brave and brilliant enough to offer a stupid idea, you know, you throw a stupid idea in and

That means you're going to have a genius idea in three seconds. It's firing. And if you're safe and everyone goes, "What? We're not doing that." And then, "Well, what about this?" "Oh, okay." It's freedom of kind of flow thought. And again, learned a hell of a lot from that. Because I definitely had some of those moments where you look around

What did you say? I think there are moments in the film where I'm like, what are we doing? That whole bit in the second one with him dressed as a woman and us then fighting. I'm on top of him dressed as a woman trying to kill him. I mean, and there's moments where you go, wait, aren't we doing Sherlock Holmes? Doyle's rolling over in his grave. Are the mechanics of a Guy Ritchie movie...

at all laborious because it is visually so specific and cool. It never felt laborious. Sorry, you asked a much more specific question because of what Jake said about his sets. Well, he told me he's got like his own grill he invented. I think I saw it in the Beckham documentary. He hasn't got to that quite then, but he was always, yeah, what are we having for lunch? Let's cook our own lunch. He was inventing at the time.

a kind of plush decked out trailer that you could cook your own food on with a little wood burning stove. All of that going on. He's running like a bygone era. That's so great. Okay. I watched The Order last night. Gosh. A couple of things right out of the gates. Just delighted to see a movie like this because we haven't made one of these in a long time. This was a standard fare.

in the early 2000s. And more so in the late 70s and early 80s. And that was the films I grew up with that Justin, the director, grew up with. If you think of Lumet and freaking early Michael Mann. A time when the genre of film could also carry incredible content and so...

substance. I've been referring to it as sort of elevated genre, that people aren't scared of genre being some sort of excuse just for thrills, that in fact you can bed in really interesting commentary. You are... I'm going to fluff your pillows now, so buckle up.

You're not unrecognizable because clearly it's you, but you're unrecognizable in this very fun way. This role, I'm like, this is like Gene Hackman or like late Paul Newman. When you walk up your face, I'm like, he's a real dude. This is not a movie star. This is very Gene Hackman-y. That was the aim. I'm completely thrilled that you made those two references. Those were references that Justin and I both sort of circled around. Oh, really? The whole time for so many reasons. First of all, this idea of

For me as a Brit, trying to create a very particular

particular American man of that time. The kind of cheesy reference is Marlboro Man, but you know, that kind of lived in grizzly macho, but with a really good heart. I mean, this is such a good trope. I miss it. It's like the life is a disaster because you've dedicated it all to one thing you're good at. That's right. Well, that was exactly at the heart of what we wanted to find in him. It's why we didn't base him on the real special agents that were in that case. Yeah, let's get a plot.

Okay, great. So it's a real story. So it's based on a case that the FBI uncovered in the early 80s about this white separatist movement that was breaking out in Idaho. And they discovered it because of a series of bank robberies.

And these robberies actually amassed more money than had ever been stolen from Brinkman at the time. It was up to nearly $4 million. Well, yeah, one of the armored car jobs was like $3 million in 83. But they were using it to finance an army. And they were following a book that had been written a few years before called The Turner Diaries, this goofy, almost kids-like book, which was seven steps.

to taking over the country. And they got to number five. It's still the Bible of white nationalists. I watched docs as recently as last year where that's still the Bible of the white nationalists. That's right. But it's this kind of kid's book. It's really odd. It's not got great content or gravitas to it. So Bob Matthews was the leader of this group

that called themselves The Order or The Silent Brotherhood. Nick Holt plays him. Love him. Be still my beating vagina. I mean, he is as goddamn sexy as he can get. We do love him. What a brave actor to take on that role. He had to go to pretty dark places, I felt for him, because he found a humanity in this guy, but he was sort of unrelenting in commitment.

It was a remarkable performance. I agree. So that's a real guy. There were a couple of special agents that bust this case, one in particular who's written several books about it. And it was just important that we use this character in the film and add to his vulnerability, add to his...

personal life to really make sure that the story and his role in the story hit home. And so to sort of hang that or invent that on the back of a real agent just felt wrong. So we sort of amalgamated him and invented him ourself. And going back to your point, we constructed him in such a way that there's this sense of this lost family, this incredible career that he's

physically in ruin and kind of falling apart, smoking too much, drinking too much. He's taking pills to thin his blood and his nose bleeding. His fucking nose is gushing blood at inopportune moments. He's a mess. And I like the idea that a lot of us felt like the big fight was behind us. And in fact, it's kind of in front of us. It's becoming more and more apparent.

parent globally. I wanted him to be us in that sense that he thinks he's done his job and he's going there to fish and hunt and chill out and suddenly this army is in front of him and he's on his own and he's got to take him on and you the audience are thinking is he going to survive the afternoon? He's falling apart. And there's also this interesting mirror of giving everything up, devoting everything to a cause and what the cost of that is that things do cost in life. The bill comes due. Yeah.

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Justin Cazell directed it. We couldn't have found a better director. He was so suited to the material and handled it with such consideration and lent on the genre aspect, created this real edge of your seat cat and mouse thriller. But all the work and the emphasis, certainly on the set, was always about character and authenticity and background. And so at the end,

I don't want to give too much away, but he kind of does get his man, he doesn't get his man. And so there's this suggestion of the hunt continuing, which I just thought was so elegantly conducted by him as a director, that sort of open ending with just the breathing of husk back out in the wilderness. And I felt like it lent itself beautifully to, exactly as you said, the fact that this book is still being looked at by separatist groups and urban terrorists as a Bible. Were you in Coeur d'Alene? No, we shot it actually in Calgary. Oh, you did? Because I...

I think that's still alive in Coeur d'Alene. Oh, I'm sure. That group? Yeah, like, I think that's still a real hotbed of white nationalism. And I would have been a little nervous making that movie. Actually going there. No, indeed. This is the scary thing. Obviously, it's a piece of American history, but it's a global problem. Oh, I just watched a front line on this thing called the Deutschland... Oh, Christ. Deutschland something. They've gotten some officials elected. It's thriving on the millions. It's very fucking scary.

I have belief that what galvanizes these individuals, it's sort of going on at the moment around us. It can sometimes be a single voice that gives them an excuse to suddenly be public about it. Someone in the agency said to me, the reason that got so far was because of Bob Matthews.

He was a sort of once-in-a-generation voice, and he somehow managed to speak to them all. Charismatic leader. And as soon as he disappeared, they all disappeared into their little holes, and they shut up. And I have a faith if people vote right this year, a lot of those people, their voices will disappear too.

Yeah, there's so many forces at work. This current rise of this Deutschland, I wish I could remember the name of the party. It coincides perfectly with them deciding they were going to be a home for refugees, which is beautiful. And a commitment at that time by maybe Merkel saying, we have this pass and here's one of the ways we're going to atone for it. She was extraordinary. She really led the way with the refugees. Yeah, that's like a force that happens. And then now this breathes oxygen into this other thing. And then, yeah, charismatic people.

Leader pops up and rides on the fumes of all this other stuff that's going on. I thought what Justin did very well in the film was... Really quick, how did you find him? Because he's going to direct a couple episodes of The Bateman show. So he's an Aussie? He's an Aussie. My company had a great relationship with Zach Balin, who's a wonderful writer. He wrote King Richard and Creed and...

Marley. He's a great run and gave the script to my partner, Ben, and we just wanted to get it made. We couldn't believe this story hadn't been told. We couldn't believe that he'd packaged this message within a genre. And it was just a beautiful piece.

So we loved Justin's work from Snowtown and Nitram and Macbeth. And he'd done some amazing work on film and just seemed so suited to it. He's an awesome guy. He brings incredible heart and ferocity and energy.

energy to films that he works on and we got on very very well I hope to do many many more projects with him I intend to and I hope to but yeah he also stepped in and shot the last two episodes of the show that I just shot with Jason are you guys done yeah we finished two weeks ago okay we interviewed him three days before he left to go start to go start with his big beard he looked insane yeah and then I saw him this summer do you know what I find insane now I've seen him without it because he's been my big brother Vince and

big brother Vince had this hair and this beard and suddenly he shaved it all off for a flashback we have later in the show. And I was like, who the hell are you? You're Jason Bateman. Where's my brother? It's such a great part for him. He's playing a recovering addict who's

who has this nefarious past who kind of blows the lid off everything he goes near. You know, in The Wrong Hands, it could have been that kind of character where everyone goes, why does anyone give this guy time of day? He's a walking car wreck. It's Jason Bateman. Yeah, you love him. So you fucking love him. You can't resist him. I know. And the charm and the humor.

You just suddenly go, I forgive you. Do it again. In fact, nobody does shitty like he does. Yes. He is the very best. There's like just a few handful that can pull off unlikable so well. And by the way, the first time I've worked with someone who is directing and acting, that is a juggling act. That is a skill set. He's directing the show. He directed the first two. He's doing what he did on Ozark. That's right.

You've not wanted to direct? I would love to, but I really enjoy the producing side. I really enjoy bringing folk together and ideas to life. Directing requires so much work. I will, I hope, one day. You have something with Monica's new favorite.

Was it writer or director that wrote, what's your threesome movie you love so much? Challengers. Challengers. Oh, yeah. That was such a good movie. Who are you working with now? Justin Karitskis, the writer. I'm working with him on something based on the 1968 debates between Gore Vidal and Buckley Jr. That's a great doc. That's one of my favorite docs. Best of Enemies. Yeah. That's what we were inspired by. Oh,

Wow, that'll be awesome. Have you seen that, Monica? No. It's an incredible documentary. It's also very interesting in today's times to watch that because you have two people that are polar opposites and they're both brilliant. And just to watch them go at it and the way they could go at it and how entertaining that was. And yet it wasn't like file into this camp and declare yourself this. It was like fun discourse. At the highest level of insight and wit. But my goodness, the respect for each other just,

slowly, well, slowly disintegrates in real time. Yeah. That's fun. Okay. So Black Rabbit's the show with Bateman, right? Yeah. That's on Netflix. That's coming. It'll be next year on Netflix. Yes. And then the third thing is a Star Wars project. Yeah.

called Skeleton Crew. The Order and Skeleton Crew come out with it three days of one another. That's right. The Order will be in cinemas from December 6th, and Skeleton Crew is on that week on Disney+. This is just my own selfish curiosity. When you did Peter Pan and Wendy, was that supposed to come out theatrically, or do you always know it was going to be a streamer? I assumed it was going to come out theatrically.

And it was shot in such a way. I mean, this is David Lowery. He's a real filmmaker. And the scale of the thing was just magnificent. And I was lucky enough to see it in the cinema when they screened it for me. I don't know what went on there. It was one of those many unanswered questions that people seem to be posed at the moment about streamers making movies for, I don't know. I assumed that Disney had in

enough confidence that every holiday, every parent wants to go to the movies with their kids, right? And if it's Peter Pan and Wendy, you're going to all go. You're going to watch it on Disney Plus 2. I've never quite understood why one would stop the other. But a lot of actors got fucked. There was like a two-year window where people were signing up for...

big movies and presumably they had box office bonuses or they had participation and success. And then they were like, well, guess what? That's completely off the table. None of them really stepped up and said, here's the money you would have normally made. No. To me, it's more about the responsibility also of the bigger companies who Disney are a tentpole company.

organization that people will go to the cinemas to see that it's not like it's an odd arty film it's a disney movie and like i said i mean if that comes out on the holiday everyone with a child and everyone who's a disney fan will go see it and go support it yeah they have to they have to fill up those days with the kids yes believe you that's the scariest time of the year the week between christmas and the end of the holidays

I'll tell you what I did, Jude. Two Christmases ago. We go hard for Christmas. We go hard for everything. You just saw my yard. There's skeletons everywhere. We go hard. Prepping for Halloween. And the problem with going really hard is we went hard all of December two years ago. And then we get to the big day and it's Christmas. We unwrap our presents. And I go, whew. I can feel everyone's dopamine leave.

There's nothing more to look forward to. And I go, my God, we've got 10 more days together. How do we do this? It's all downhill. So two years ago, I said, new family rule. Every year on Christmas, the second we finish opening the presents, we get on an airplane and we go somewhere.

And we did that last year. And by God, it worked. And it's a great day to travel. No one's fucking there. It's a great idea. I do it because in the UK, the weather is so awful. My wife loves Christmas, wants to be near the family. I do too. I just don't... I do too. I love them, but you gotta keep everyone busy. Gotta keep everyone busy. And...

I always find the role of dad is usually unpacking and packing things. So I'm also suddenly going, why am I filling the car up? And now I'm emptying the car. I don't know, I'm filling the car back up and stuff. And now I'm emptying, like, this is a lot of time out here. Do we need all this fucking shit to go out all these places? I know. We've got to carry all the presents out to Auntie Julie's house. But because of the weather, getting out of the UK on Boxing Day is a must.

Go find some warm weather. Yeah, let's get the fuck out of here. Ooh, this just reminded me. I have a question. What is the movie? Because as we've discussed, you've done so many incredible ones. I have a guess as to the one that gets brought up the most to you on the street. Is it The Holiday? It was Christmas themed. I like the segue there. I mean, I just remembered it because of that. It's a remarkable thing. I had a feeling making that. Nancy Myers, the director, has a really forensic, sharp eye for...

creating those cute meat sweet but not saccharine movies they satisfy from the aesthetic to the dialogue there's just enough humour there's a little romance they're smart but she goes about them with a real attention to detail so you hope it's going to be a success when it opens you do not think it's going to be

For decades and decades. A stalwart for decades. Yes. A Christmas kind of routine. Yes. It's in my routine. I watch it every Christmas. I still love it. Is Monica right? That's the one people. So popular. And they make it part of their Christmas. It's a lovely thing. Yeah, you got to learn to be grateful for hell, yeah. Yeah, all the little things. Totally. Yeah, when you're part of the fabric of someone's holiday. Holiday.

That's lovely. My one big issue with it was the name Graham. And I apologize to everyone called Graham out there. But in the UK, Graham's a little bit of a, okay, I really do apologize. You got to be careful here. I get name trouble all the time. I was just like, can we just call him Jack or John? You know? And Nancy just really wanted Graham. Yeah, she got it. Because you see, at least in the States, you say Graham. But in England, we call him Graham. Ew.

Ew. Graham. Graham. Yeah, that's not. Apologies to Graham. Sorry, Graham. Y'all should move here to the States where we'll call you Graham. Yeah. So Graham Norton. Oh, shit. Graham. Now he's going to. You just. Yeah, I think every year because we have a routine. I told you we go hard in December. It starts with family vacation. The Christmas vacation movie. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, it's. Yes. Yes.

Yeah, I can imagine being in it and being upset about it. But on the outside, as an actor that's not in it, I'm like, what a goddamn blessing. Every year, I appreciate Chevy Chase for two hours. Every year. And I'm going to until I'm dead. That is such a gift. Where do you go on holiday when you live in California?

We went to Mexico. I'll tell you exactly what I do. It's so embarrassing to say out loud, but as I've gotten money, I've become a total hotel snob. So all I do is I go to fourseasons.com and I look at the list of hotels and then I go see which ones are booked and how long it'll take us to get there. I don't give a fuck where we go as long as there's a Four Seasons there.

And so it turned out the one that was closest and had availability was in Mexico. And we went and then it was delightful. That was great climate. Lovely water. Everything was great. It was a big win. And you're in Mexico, so they'll let you do something they would never let you do in the States, which is I got a couple's massage with my then eight-year-old daughter. Ha ha!

They won't massage a minor, especially on an eight-year-old in the States. But there, everything was great. And I'm laying next to her. And it was one of my, I mean, other than watching Lincoln at the Arras tour. Listening to Delta go, oh, wow. I like this. Oh, daddy, I want to get a massage all the time. Yeah, that's not how it works. This is a very special thing. That's so cute. Wow. It was so cute.

In the room with her, like experiencing her first massage. And she loved it. I bet. That's really funny. She's going to get a couple's massage when she's married. And I used to go with my dad to get couple's massages. This one's not as good as the one I had with my dad. Oh my God. Okay, great. So let's just for one second, talk about skeleton crew, because that's also coming out. But I doubt you're going to come see us again before December 3rd, which breaks my heart. So let's talk about it now. What's there to say? I'm not allowed to say anything. Oh,

Yeah, that makes sense. Now I can answer anything you want to know. Well, I just think it's pretty...

Cool to step into that world, I guess, Star Wars. It was really cool. I'm not like an insane Star Wars fan, but I grew up. It was a formative part of my childhood. I remember seeing those first three and they blew my little mind. And I probably ran around my yard for the next 10 years going pew pew and, you know, I'm Han. And my friends going, you know, all of that. Who didn't? Jabba the Hutt.

Being very jealous of my neighbor, Daniel, who had a lot more figures than me. Same. I think he even had an AT-AT, which really pissed me off. I befriended him and went over there and melted a few of them as they got lazy. But it was formative and made enough of an impression that stepping into it was just honestly a real joy.

And I was lucky that the character that they wanted me to play has a really interesting contradiction and he's got a swagger and he's interesting. He's got a lot of sides. But the genius was that the protagonists of this show are kids. So it doesn't have the sort of worthiness that some of the latter work I think had, which I, by the way, enjoyed. But it's...

but it's through the eyes of these children who get lost in that world. I just thought it was a stroke of genius. It adds a kind of innocence. It adds an awe with real jeopardy still that I just think really breathed some sparkle back in. Yeah. Okay. My last question for you is about your wife.

She is a behavioral psychologist. That's so hot. Our favorite guest. That is so hot. We do experts on Wednesdays. We've had a few behavioral. We constantly have psychologists on. And I love it. But of course, I'm always most intrigued, if I'm being honest. You have this playbook. You kind of understand emotions. You know how to articulate how you feel. But then you're also just a real human in real life. Like in some weird way, you think they would have the answer key.

for existing, but I've never really got to interview the husband of someone with the answer key. And when you guys get in like a spat, can she just go like, here's exactly what's going on. You're responding to this thing when you're nine years old that you already told me and I already fucking know this and jump to it. The short answer is absolutely. But the skill set that I have observed and appreciate the most

is her calm in that scenario. I was so immature before I met her. You know, I thought a row, an argument or a fight was getting really angry and shouting a lot and storming around. And what she taught me was that you can row and be perfectly calm and sit down. It's just a conversation where we really disagree. That was like an epiphany for me that blew my little mind. Oh, this is called being adult. Yeah. What age were you when you guys met? I was 40. And it was,

It was an ability to suddenly slow down and really look at what was being discussed, what was being disagreed on. She's also incredibly generous. So she has a wonderful empathy, so much more so than me. And so at any given time, I also know that even if she sees the root of...

The pathetic little decision I've made or stubborn little foot stomp I'm making. She kind of goes about it with great embrace. She's a very awesome person and hugely patient. She puts up with me. Yeah. If I put myself in your shoes, I'm very opinionated on how we should raise the kids. It's very important to me. I have a lot of opinions. I care more about that than anything. And I might have a chip on my shoulder that in theory she probably would be right. Yeah.

theoretically, if we were debating this course of action with the kids, I might feel like, hey, just because you have all this training and knowledge doesn't mean my opinion isn't as valid. I'm lucky in that I've done it before. So where we are about

pretty formidable team, I like to think, is that she has this study, she has patience and sort of wisdom, and I've been in the trenches and gotten muddy and bloody, so I can sort of go, yeah, that ain't gonna work. Let me tell you, we can go down that path, we're gonna lose teeth. Yeah, in theory it's great, in practice this is gonna happen. And it's a good mixture. Is she a Brit or an American? She's British. Oh, she is? Yes. Okay. What's that do to your brain? Well...

I don't know. I like it, I guess. That she's British? Yeah. Because I like exotic things. And if I had the option for exotic, I don't know, there's something nice about the fact that you're with a blue. Well, that's not true. Because look at your wife. She's pretty fucking American. Yeah. Yeah. Some might argue she's America's sweetheart. Yeah. Some might. Yeah.

Like the world? The world said so. I don't know what I'm saying. I thought there was something there and there's not. You were looking. You were fishing. That's not right. Yeah, I don't know. Well, all I know is the sky was the limit for your options and you got yourself a hometown girl. So I think I like that. Yeah, I was just very, very lucky to meet someone at that moment.

had the generosity just to sort of get me and love me for me. That was the big mind blowing moment. Do you struggle at all? I had this hang up. I was with the girl for nine years. She was with me through all the struggle. And then we broke up and I was really quite bothered by the fact that I would meet someone that already knew the successful version of me, already knew someone potentially on TV. Does that make any sense to you? Yeah.

It does make sense, but it was pretty clear from the get-go. First of all, I'd been pretty successful and known for quite a chunk of my life. Your whole life, really, yeah. And in a way, I sort of thought that that was the issue moving forward and finding someone. And to be honest, I'd gotten to a place where I thought, well, you

You know, I'd been pretty lucky. I felt like I'd fallen in love before a couple of times. It hadn't worked out. That's fine. I was healthy and happy. I was sort of starting to like myself again. I'd forgiven myself for some stupid behavior and moved on. So what was key was that she was clearly not interested in this public person or any of that, but in me. And that was mind-blowing to me. And we became really great friends very, very quickly. But that was the first step.

Yeah. I don't want to bring this up because it's not a fun topic and I don't want to bring up anything scandalous at all. All I want to ask, the one curiosity I have is during this fucking phone hacking thing, were you ever getting suspicious at any point? Like someone's got to be like, were there moments where you're like, this is inexplicable? Yeah, they would turn up.

at places in the middle of nowhere or I'd be taking the kids on holiday. Mentally freaky. Very, very freaky. You start to circle the wagons and really start analyzing who in the circle is doing what. You get a little paranoid. You get a little antsy about things. It just spins your head out. It's pretty traumatic, really. Yeah. I think it's hugely traumatic. Yes.

It's so nuts that someone greenlit that. I know. On such a huge scale. Right. They were doing the prime minister. And they figured out that paper, plus I'm sure some of the others, the content they were publishing every week, 80 to 90% of the content had been illegally sourced. I mean, that's how much they were outsourcing and paying for these people to provide these stories illegally. Crazy. I,

I honestly think it would run the risk of making someone lose their mind. Yeah. Because you're already, let's just be honest, and I deal with it to some extent, not the degree you do, but reality has already been augmented. Like I go to Starbucks and people there know me. That's its own thing to come to terms with and integrate into your existence. Yeah. I've got to remember it. I've got to think back.

The colour that I'm seeing, I was just pissed off. Yes. A lot. There was a good 10 years I was angry. I got kind of animal primal because the thing that really pissed me off was the invasion in my kids' lives. And then I realised that I was the one actually upsetting the kids because they were seeing dad being like...

Get the fuck away. Go away. What are you doing here? All of that stuff whilst trying to provide a great, hey, we're all going to the park. Let's go to the park. Fuck off. What are you doing here? It was just a messy time. Well, the kids, that's a really important piece because I will say I'm really nice in general, in public. Me too. In the times I've been really aggressive. I want to be a nice guy. I want to be good and kind. Same, same, same. The only times people have seen really bad versions of myself is when I'm with my kids.

I'm sorry they didn't sign up for this. I know you think somehow that's a price they should pay for having me as a parent, but that's bullshit. That's sins of our fathers stuff. Yeah, that's right.

And yeah, I've been my worst self because I'm already a suspicious person. So I'd be like, oh, I know who it is. I know what's happening. Something's happening. I would feel it. That would be maddening. You really went through something. Yeah. And it's interesting to discuss because again, I'm someone who tends to genuinely just look forward. I don't dwell on the past much. I don't really look back over old work or old experiences. It is kind of therapeutic and interesting to discuss. And I remember the anger. I also remember it was inevitable that

Once the line was drawn under it or it seemed to subside, there needed to be a time, a space away from everything. I needed a lot of healing had to take place. And it was a big turning point. The responsibility was also on me, meaning I didn't want the kids to see that stuff. So I had to learn how to deal with it in another way too.

That's the thing I really relate to you is like, I do that thing. I'm defending them in quotes, but really all they've done is seen me go from normal to really agitated and aggressive to someone else. And now they're just absorbing all that energy. So whatever damage this person that was filming my kids, which I was pissed about did to them, what I ended up doing was worse. And then having to fucking accept that,

that now it's like another layer and i was like that person took away my control and power but then i did something even worse with it i know it's hard big old knot what a chapter yeah wow you lived through that i bet there's still residual decompression yeah probably well thanks for telling me about that i read that and i was like oh man the things i've had i can't believe it was a

Well, it was highly illegal in the end. Well, exactly. They paid out, the thing closed, they put one of the guys in prison. Oh, that someone went to jail for it. Oh, good. Yeah.

I mean, it's like good, but it still happened. You can't undo. Do you know how they found out in the end? So there had been complaints. There were suspicions arisen, aroused by various people in the public eye. And we were sort of told, sort of shut up. You guys are famous. This is what you deserve. A young girl was murdered and

And they hacked her telephone. Oh, my God. And so they listened to messages, which meant the police thought she was still alive. And when that got out, they finally realized that's how low they went. Oh, that's her. A murdered child's phone. Yeah. Oh, my God. I know. Oh, God.

England's a weird place. I've only sued one of those magazines and it was an English magazine. It's interesting because you guys actually have more protections than we do. It's just a moral thing, right? They just decide, let's really push the line. It's just really curious because you have more legal protection there. That is bizarre. And yet they seem to offend worse than anyone else. I think they push that boundary of freedom of speech or hide behind it rather. Saying this is freedom of journalism. Yes. Yes.

As if we need to know, like, you're in a position of power or in the government. Well, Jude, this has been a blast. I really like you. Do people normally come in and just start talking? I feel really... No. That's exactly how it goes. I'm telling you that we just...

This is how it goes. I loved it. That's how it works. What a joy. But this was fun because we have some mutual friends and I've never met you and you're fucking delightful. Well, you too. It's been such a thrill to be on this, really. I've loved it. Now you need to tell me, other than Anna, who else cries? I didn't cry. I got a little teary. Oh, I'm going to have to send you a list. I mean, not to brag, but we've had 800 people and I bet you a good...

30 of them have cried. At least 30. Yeah, maybe more. Wow. Did I make Prince Harry cry? No, you didn't. The Brits, I guess, don't cry. Well, they're kind of known for that. They cry at the pub in the bathroom. Six pints. Under the stairwell. They let it sneak out. Under the stairs. They let it all out there. That's it. When they're hiding. Your autobiography should be called Under the Stairwell. From under the stairwell to the top of the stage. My life in the limelight.

Well, this has been a blast. I hope you'll come back the next time you have three movies coming out at once. All right. Be well. Bye. Thank you. He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's got to let him have the facts. Hi. Is this Vinty? No. Okay. Brand new. Regular. Right off the factory floor. Darn it. What? Well, this would be a spoiler for a future episode, but...

I was going to put my cashmere in a little bag and bring it in so you could... Save it for that episode. That episode. Okay, great. I have a big update. Oh, you do? Mm-hmm. So... The way you're steadying yourself for this update. Well, I need visual. I need line of vision. Field of vision. Field of vision. Line of sight. Line of sight. Look. Look.

Oh my gosh. Is that the bear? This is the black bear. Well, hold on. Okay. It's not the black bear.

The original Black Bear is still out of your reach. Impossible. Except, so I went to the restaurant. Yeah. I chatted with my friend who works there. Okay. A server or a manager or the owner? I think the owner. Or the valet? No. Owner, manager, all of it. He does all of it. All of the above. The bald guy? Is he missing hair?

I think so. Okay. I've got a great product for him. No, he looks great. Okay, great. You know, we chatted about the mug. Obviously, word has got to them about what's been going on. Well, they got active in the comments. I don't know if I... I think I didn't tell you that. Okay. Because I wanted to preserve your...

overall relationship with a place you love. Okay. But they got active in the comments. They were like, don't steal our mug. They were a little, they got a little, they really didn't get the joke that I was suggesting steal the mug and leave money. I see. And they got, I think they got a little worried. So they got, they got busy in the comments. Oh, okay. Okay. Not a check that they know about this whole thing. Also, definitely don't steal anyone's anything.

Unless you're going to leave $1,000. No. I bet they would be proud I said that. No, actually, this is... So I think this is sort of part of the issue. Like, they're sold out completely. The mugs are sold out. Every single mug on the website is sold out. They're gone. I don't know if that's armcherries. Were they sold out when you went and looked...

Well, I know they weren't because you read from me the website. They were not. They weren't. A lot of them were available? Yes. So I have a feeling our beautiful armchairs got active and are supporting this wonderful company, Salty Sea Dogs. Oh, that's what it's called. A lot of people are curious. Salty Sea Dogs. If they want to know more about my stuff, they can follow me on Instagram.

Oh, okay. Because you were tagging people and things. Exactly. Okay. I do believe that we had something to do with that. And that makes me really happy and my heart feel very full. Oh, good. So this is many parts. This is a thank you? Yeah, this is a huge thank you. I went to the restaurant. We talked. The owner said potentially that if...

They get more in, like more mugs in general. Yeah. He'll give me an original Black Bear. There's two.

Two different bears. No, there's two only left in the world. In the world? At that restaurant. That's one of them? No. Okay, sorry. Yeah. So that there has sort of a like, what's the shape? Triangle, sort of. That's not the right shape. That's not the right. What if you didn't know the name of a triangle? Well, it's not a triangle, but it's like. Thank God it was on the card. It's a trapezoid?

Oh, my God. Speaking of the cognitive test, you know what I could not identify? Did I already say this? I could not identify for the life of me a seahorse. Oh, interesting. There were pictures of things and they were like ball and cat, like so obvious. Yeah. And then one was this thing and I was like, oh, a... A pelican. A sandwich. A...

A sea lion? Like I could not remember. Sea lion makes sense because that's a thing. It is a thing, but it's not that thing. And I never got, she had to tell me. She told you. Yes. And then I was like, I think this is racism. Oh. Yeah. Okay. Not misogyny? Indians don't learn. No, this is an Indian thing.

Because women don't like horses as much as men, according to Barbie. Women love horses. That is true. But according to Barbie, men love horses are the patriarch. Sure. Okay. Okay. I guess it's both per usual. Right. Right. Right. Per usual. It's both things. Laundry list. Really? I was like, Indians don't know about seahorses. I'd be curious if you're an Indian listener. And you grew up in Atlanta, Georgia. No, you can have grown up anywhere in this country. Like, yeah.

Because, and I wonder if this is Indian for real. Okay, now we're transferring into real. Okay, we got to get back to the black bear, but one second. Because like I'll suggest that genetically you're probably more tolerant of high heat. And you're like, that's preposterous. I didn't say that's preposterous. Oh, what'd you say?

I said, stop talking. Just shut up about it. Only I'm allowed to talk about being Indian. Yeah. That's fair. I think you're right about that, potentially, that I have some genetic disposition to high heat, but also I grew up in the South. But I'm going to argue. It's not a great argument because the U.S. is also surrounded on three sides by ocean. Right. Because India...

This is a goddamn peninsula. This is a subcontinent. This thing is submerged in water where seahorses are roaming free and wild. I would even think you'd over-index.

I don't think they have seahorses there. Okay. And also, you know, when I would babysit young kids like yours, you know, here in America, there's a big emphasis on teaching. Now your position is just like you've arrived. You almost sound like Steven Seagal. How do you say in English? That is not fair. I am Indian. Okay. Okay.

I think there's a big... Now I sound like Trump when he's talking about Kamala Harris. I don't know. She's Indian. That's fine. She was black. Now she's Indian. She used to be black. Now she's Indian. Oh, my God. I think there's a big emphasis in America for American schoolchildren and American...

OK, preschool, when you're like have babysitters and your parents are reading you books and stuff. Yeah. There's a big emphasis on animals. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like identify this animal. What's this? What's this? I didn't have that. Well, to be clear, I didn't either from my parents. I had it from my grandparents. I would go to my grandma Yolis and she had those National Geographic books and she wanted me to. She's white. Yeah, I'm very, very smart and educated.

She's the most educated of my lineage. Right. Oh, right. She is. Only master's degree holder. I thought you said I'm very, very smart and educated. Well, you are. And you're my grandma. No, I thought you...

This is like Mossimo. I thought you said the words, I'm very smart. Not Monica is, but I'm very smart. No, I'm the average intelligence, except the cog test. I know, you're very smart. But back to, so I didn't have that either, but I did have it from my grandma. I'm just adding context for you're American because I grew up in America and you didn't. So I'm telling you how it worked.

It's more American people put emphasis on animals. I think that's real. Is it? Yes, because pets. You might totally be right, but I really want to know the thought process of how you came to that. I am coming to it real time. I don't think...

I don't think pets are a huge part of the culture at all. I really don't. In India? Yes. Yeah. Well, God knows they have dogs. We saw a lot of dogs. Dogs. And they have cows walking around the street. They're roaming though. They're not pets. Yeah. So here's the one I was going to launch really, really quick. And this is not thought out and probably full of holes like Swiss cheese. Preferably on pastrami with coleslaw and a little Russian dressing.

We don't have exotic animals, you know? We don't have lions and tigers and elephants and- Monkeys. Monkeys. And so they're very exotic and interesting to us. But maybe if you grew up in Africa or India where these things are indigenous, they're not that interesting. So that could be kind of an argument. Like, they're so exotic to us. Yeah.

They're almost like fairy tales, dragons and whatever. Yeah, maybe. I'm not standing on that argument, but I did just come up with it. I think it's more America's obsessed with pets and like...

Because I did learn about elephants. Okay. Because elephants are a big part of that culture. And so my grandparents, you know, there's like elephants everywhere. Big symbol. Yeah. So I knew about them. Okay, here. I got a new one that just came off the assembly line. We were raised on Disney cartoons and the stars of the cartoons are generally animals. They're

Wile E. Coyote and all these fun and Dumbo and what's the little deer? Poor Bambi. So I do think our cultural products are pretty rife with animals. That's what I said. But I don't watch any cartoons in India, so I don't know if those two are populated. I bet they are. Kids like talking animals, don't you think? I don't know. Unfortunately, I'm not. I didn't grow up there. Should we call your dad?

And ask about animals? Yeah, ask him if when he was a kid, were the cartoons, were the characters in cartoons mostly animals or were they humans? I don't think he had TV or movies. He did. He walked to school. No, he didn't. Let's ask him. Okay. Let's get it straight from the horse's mouth. Ding, ding, ding. Horse. We call people horse's mouth. Men love horses. Yeah. Patriarchy. Oh, boy. What if your dad goes, how the fuck would I know? I'm American. And then he hung up. I would like that. Me too. Yeah.

He won't. He never hangs up on me. I don't know why you're asking these fucking questions. Hey, Monica. Hey, Dad. You're on air. Well, not live, but we are recording. Hi. Hey. How are you? I'm in a meeting. Oh, no. Okay. Dad, you want to call me back? I will. Okay. All right. Bye. That's so cute. He's in a meeting, but if his daughter calls. Yeah. Ding, ding, ding. Future guest.

I know. Yeah. You got to pick up when your daughter calls. That's right. She could be running from an attacker. I don't call a lot. He's like, that's my dad. Oh, something's wrong. No, he thinks something's wrong. Yeah, he does. He does think something's wrong. But nothing's wrong, Dad. You're just on the air. Just trying to figure out if everyone likes animals or just Americans. What if I said, put me on speaker at your meeting?

I want to pull the group you're with. Yeah. Certainly, you must, I think you need to extend this to Westerners because certainly when I'm in Europe, people, everyone has dogs. Yeah. In fact, if you go to like Nice and all these little French Riviera towns. Yeah. There are mechanized dog poop scooper uppers like in Cannes and stuff. Right. These French let their fucking dog's waist just fall all over the ground. They're so willing. Oh, French. They're so romantic.

So sexy. They had dog poops on the side. Oh, so horny. Let's go into the... Anyway.

I don't know. Maybe times have changed in India, but. We were just there, by the way. We did go to someone's house and I didn't see any animals there. No, but they weren't hosting guests. They probably put their cats and dogs and seahorses away. They don't have them. I really don't think it's a. Should we ask Hassan? Or do we know? I don't think he lives with cats. But he's going to be on the same boat as you. Exactly. He'll tell us what it's like in fucking Stockton, California. No, he's going to say the culture. He didn't grow up. His parents didn't bring cats and dogs around.

My grandfather was a, for a long time, a vet. Legally or just like I'm a doctor. No, he like he was a he was a he was a don't laugh at him. He's dead. He was a.

He was a professor of genetics. Right. But I don't think I think that's different than a veterinarian. No, he did a lot of work with animals. OK. And at one point he was a vet. I don't know all the details. OK. OK. But listen, even him, who was like knew a lot about animals and was around them, they didn't have pets. Right. It was that's like a separate thing. Anyway, Indians don't have pets. OK. Right.

We're going to have a guest on next year who I'm going to ask. Okay. And I'm really excited to ask. She won't know either. Are you talking about she'll know if she had pets in America? What are you talking about? I thought we're trying to figure out if Indians in India know about seahorses and have pets. Well, it's-

It's all related. If they themselves weren't around a lot of animals or it wasn't a big part of the culture, they're not teaching their little kids about animals. They're not like picking that out as something. Oh, identify all these animals as something important to do. They don't care about that. Okay. So it's why I don't know about seahorses. I'm not pushing back on that. I'm introducing a new thing, which I think helps your argument, which is I don't know if other countries have aquariums.

But aquariums are huge. Wabi, did you have an aquarium? Yeah, at one point I had a little aquarium. You mean at your house? Yes, and you must have had many friends that had aquariums. Yeah. I had an aquarium. I had an aquarium phase, and my buddies all had aquariums. Sure. And you dump some seahorses in there. I think you throw them in like powder, and then all of a sudden they're alive. There's something really interesting about seahorses. Oh, God. They can be transported as a powder and then become seahorses.

So I'm so happy I was spared that. Seeing them moving throughout aquariums. Yeah. Aquarii. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, back to the bear. Wow. Okay. The original bear mug has like basically a triangle square bottom rectangle. Salty Seadog sent me this new bear and they said it's only for me.

Oh, wow. Congratulations. You know who that bear looks identical to? Did you ever read this book too? Lincoln or Delta, The Great Paper Caper?

Ding, ding, ding. What? Books about animals. Yeah, sure. I did read that to them. Yeah. That's how I learned about bears. That's how the bear's drawn. It looks very similar to that. It's such a cute bear. The Great Paper Caper is one of my favorite children's books. The drawings are so cute and playful. Yeah. Remember the owl? They're all like, they show that wide of all of them, what they're doing on their own. I don't remember.

Well, someone's cutting down trees and using it to make paper. We don't know who. And they show all the suspects. And I think the owl's just staring at a tree or something. One of them's peeing. The snow's yellow where he's at. So cute. That's so cute. Have you read his Halloween book, Oliver Jeffers? No. What's it called? There's a ghost in this house. Oliver Jeffers is the guy who wrote that and illustrates it. And it's got like transparent pages. So there's ghosts when you turn them. Oh, exciting.

Exciting. Scaly. I need to order that. Yeah. Too late. No, you can still love it. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I guess it'll be... Well, look, we're really far out already for Hollywood. Hollywood. Halloween. Halloween 2025.

We already have a lot of balls in motion, as you know, in an out truck. Yeah. So might as well just go. And then we'll also have this new book. Yeah. Get it now for next year. Yeah. Anyway, I'd really want to thank Salty Sea Dogs for this incredible gift. They also they made a brown bear as well. That's the new one that went up on the website. They sent me that, too.

Oh my God. Just in case I liked that one more. So I don't understand why you don't have all of them. You have a brown one and a black one, but there's still one you don't have? The original black bear. Why can't, this is so easy to follow. Kind of. You've now got two bear mugs and you're telling me you don't have. There's a third. This one is a one of one. Yeah. Which is very special. The original bear is, there's two. Okay. But that live at Budenoki, the restaurant. Yeah.

And then Brown Bear went up on the website, but it is sold out. Do you think they could make me a ball set cowboy mug?

Maybe. Because like the mug part would be the balls. And then there'd be a handle and then there'd be a penis sticking out. Oh, God. And then that cowboy would be on just the... What are you saying? Oh, God. That's a nice... I don't want to make that make you a penis. Why? It's so playful. You have a painting and we had merch. I love it when you make it, but I would feel very uncomfortable asking somebody else to make a penis mug for you. But...

Because Salty Sea Dogs is so nice. Also, I guess some listeners sent you a robot mug. What? Maybe you haven't received it yet. Spoiler. Oh, God. I didn't know that. Because they sent gifts for the team. Oh, my heavens. Wabi, come in here. You got a really, really good one. You're jealous of his. I am. I am. Yeah. It's a Sasquatch.

Oh, but it's a playful little boy Sasquatch. It's so cute. Oh my God, these are adorable. Isn't it so cute? Do you get a little story about the person? Yeah, you can. It's a certification for adoption. These are like cabbage patch dolls. Yeah. And they sent you that nice note. I love that we're all locked into our generation. He said Build-A-Bear. I said cabbage patch. What if, hold on before you pull it off.

Because I was being rascally about the whole mug thing and steal it and everything. And what if the mug they made me was a middle finger? That would be great. And it just had eyes on the middle finger. Let's be clear. Salty Sea Dogs is not upset.

Okay, great. They are very grateful. Okay, good, good, good, good. Butanoki, if people are stealing from their establishment, I understand if they're upset. Please don't do that. Unless you're going to leave $1,000. No, that's... Okay, don't do that. Okay. Is there a price they could leave? I really don't think so. $1 million, Monica. No, because they are the reason that these mugs are a thing. Right. And they brought them to America. They're Canadian.

They brought these to America. Wait, the mugs or the restaurant? The mugs. Okay. Well, the guy is Canadian. So he knows these people and he did a nice thing and he stocked his restaurant with these mugs and it turned into such a fucking- Feeding frenzy. Because now they're like, we don't have enough. Because people are stealing them. Well, I don't know if they're stealing them or just- They're breaking. Well, no, they're very durable. Okay. But-

Really quick, do you know what payola is? No. Rob, will you read the definition of payola? So in terrestrial radio, there would be DJs who would get in trouble for payola, which is they would start talking about products and they on the side were getting money. And it's against the law. Yeah, it's the practice of bribing someone to use their influence or position to promote a particular product or interest.

Bribing. Yes. They were getting paid. They were getting paid. Oh. You're like straddling the line. No. How dare you? I just think you need to announce that you've received no money from anyone. Of course not. Right. Just a couple thousand dollars in mugs.

It's not a bribe, though, because these are things I like. I'm just talking about them. But you started talking about how durable they were, and I was like, now it sounds a little bit like a pitch. They are durable. They're a great product. Everyone should buy them, and I get a kickback. She uses URL code. I get 10%, but it's not payola. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

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Now, yours, I don't, you're not going to love what's happened, I think. I think you are, and you're also not. Okay. Because this is, let me read it to you. Hi, Dax. We wanted to send you a mug as a huge thank you for the exposure on Armchair. However, one of your amazing fans already sent you a robot.

Instead, we sent you a mug for Kristen. Perfect. If you wish to give it to her. Also, we wanted to mention that we polled our audience to hear what their favorite Armchair Expert episode was. 95% of your fans said day seven. It was a beautiful reminder that when we are open, honest, and humble, we are able to make the biggest impact. We will carry that lesson with us forever, and we thank you for that. Okay. Now I'm super on board. Now? Well, yeah, now. Now?

Now I know where their spirit and heart is. Oh, it's a three-toed sloth. Oh, what if you couldn't remember it? What if it was a seahorse? It's a cute sloth. Oh, that's very cute. Kristen will love it. Give her her certificate of adoption. Okay, so Rob got one, you got one, Kristen got one.

- Where's your robot? You need to go find it because- - I'm asking Carly if she tracked it down. - I haven't even seen a robot on the website. I'm nervous you got like a special one. - I'm nervous you got a special one. - I mean, I got a special one too. - Yeah.

Anyway, we love salty Seda. We really do. Isn't that sweet? It is very sweet. I have updates. Great. So this is a rare case where I listened to the arm cherries. I listened to you as well, but I also listened to the arm cherries, which is we talked a lot about my toe fungus.

And people were, some people were almost a little panicked. Gotta go to the doctor. Melanoma, melanoma, melanoma. Everyone's a melanoma. I know someone. Right, so a lot of melanoma stuff. Okay, there's a lot funny here. And this really kind of ding, ding, dings it as well. This is tied in in a weird way. The sloth. Yeah, so I go to my, now he got really mad when I called him a GP.

He's not. He's an internist. Okay. And I hadn't realized that that was so offensive, but that's neither here nor there. Okay. Is it like canceled? Like the word is canceled? No, just he made a lot of analogies. I'm not going to repeat because then I'll offend some GPs, but just he's, I'm an internist. I pull the toe out. He looks at it. And while he's looking at it, he goes, okay, so you tell your wife, she's our shiksa. Wow. And he's an older male doctor. Okay.

And so. So he looked at the toe and then he said that. Yeah, I think I think probably he was waiting as long as he could wait before he brought it up. And then it just kind of came up. So he told me how much he loves Kristen as a shiksa, which is so funny.

So then he goes, there's a guy across the hall. There's a podiatrist across the hall and I'm pretty close with him. I'm going to run over there and see if he's got a minute to look. He's like, I'd rather have him just look at it. Privilege, privilege, privilege. The guy's got 10 minutes. I'm with my mom too. I brought my mom with me and I brought her in the room with me, which was really fun. It made me feel like I was a little kid again. Yeah, you should have taken, you should have gone to the pediatric. I should have. And then we should have gone to McDonald's and gotten ice cream cone afterwards because I was a good strong boy who was not afraid of shots. Yeah.

And so I said to her when I was leaving, I said, hey, you want to go to the doctor with me and pretend that I'm eight again? And she goes, yeah, I'd love to. So we went to breakfast first and then we went to the doctor. So then we go across the hall and go to the podiatrist. And he starts looking and he stops and he goes, I got to tell you that your wife is a- Stop. Back to back within 10 minutes, both of them very older doctors. Oh my God.

And I was like, this show is magic. Oh, it's huge. It's magic. How is this guy? And then I'm seeing young kids in New York. It's fair. I've not seen a show that's hit everyone. The net's that wide. And dads, dads is the weird bullseye because the aforementioned guest Easter egg whose kids called. Yes. He too. He had seen it and his kids had it. That's neither here nor there. Be honest. Yeah. Were you a little like.

Can you just like, can you be a doctor for a second? No. Really? No, no, no. I thought he knows her and I got squeezed in and I'm only benefiting from the notion that this gentleman just loved my wife's show. But don't you think that like maybe...

It's like rose colored glasses. Like when he looks at the toe, he's just like, oh, it's perfect. Like her. And it could be melanoma. What if he goes, what if he looked at my toe and he goes, I can't believe she's with you. Yeah, exactly. That would be hysterical.

No, you know what's funny? And I'm going to credit my good friend, Kevin Zegers. Kevin Zegers, if you don't know who he is, he's a great actor. He's a good friend of mine and I absolutely love him. And he's got this incredible, he's on a new Taylor Sheridan show. And he's a fucking like Marlboro Man cowboy. He looks incredible. Keep seeing pictures of him. He looks gorgeous. Okay. Shout out. He texted me like three weeks into the Nobody Wants This phenomenon. And he said, I'm so grateful things are going good with your career right now because otherwise you'd be suicidal.

Yeah. And I was like, that's, you know, that's probably true. So to answer your question, I'm not above that feeling bad, but I feel my self-esteem is very good currently. That's great. And as we know, it's very fluid. Sure. And on another day I might feel bad, but I felt just fine about it. And I am, I'm trying to live by what I keep telling the kids, which is

hey, we're a team. When one of us shines, the whole team shines. We go to a party and Delta's the big hit because she's dancing. That's the Shepherds. Yeah, for sure. Team Shepherds won. That's a beautiful way of looking. I think that's correct. And I feel that. I feel like, you know what? This thing, it's a team. And if she's, everyone loves her, the team, that's great for the team. I know. It is great. I guess there are things, there are places. That you want your own attention. It's not.

It's not about attention. I don't want you to know me or anyone in my life. Oh, like if I was in there for anal warts. Again, no shame. People get anal warts. It's not their fault.

Like my waxer. But if I was on all fours and my butt cheeks were spread and he's looking at this. And he's like, your wife's my shick son. Oh my God. I was watching a show. I spilled my popcorn. I was laughing so hard at whatever part. Yeah. It's like, I wish you just didn't know me. That's fair. I wasn't too humiliated by this. So great distinction. Yeah. If I was in there for erectile dysfunction, again, no shade. It happens to tons of men. But these things that would be hard for me to go in and talk about, I might want to

be anonymous. Yeah. Okay. He looked at the toe. He goes, not melanoma. Right away. Boom. Not melanoma. Your wife's too hot for that. And so here's... Could definitely not be melanoma. Also, what's your wife doing right now? And I'll say this is a bit of a PSA. And this is not a... I'm not saying it can't happen another way, but what they did tell me was when it's melanoma, if you have melanoma under your toenail...

you'll generally see it'll start kind of growing into your cuticle. Now we've got a different thing. You'll be able to see some of the darkness in your cuticle probably. Also, so then he got after that nail. He got a pair of little sharp pliers and he just started going. No shot of numbing agent. Did you feel it? Oh yeah. Oh. We're talking about the show and what's good about the show. Oh my God. Jesus Christ. Do you want to see it? Yes. Okay. Oh my God.

This is so exciting. And also, this is payola. This is like getting people to watch us on YouTube. Let me make sure I don't have any lint. Okay. Maybe I can hold it up to her camera for one second. Yeah, hold it to camera. Okay. Look, guys, it's not great, but I got to tell you, that is an enormous improvement. No, here we go. Can you see it? No.

Oh, he sounded just like a camera operator. Yep. Like he's in the sweet spot of it. Total sharp razor focus. Okay. Okay. Let me look. Wow. Okay. Cause you've seen it in a lot of iterations. Now you've seen the enormous, like thick. Oh, Oh, Oh, here's a brag. Okay. Do you know what the doctor had by his side? Like the closest instrument he had the toe doctor, a Dremel, exactly what I've been using. Oh,

Yeah. I felt very vindicated by that. That doesn't mean you know how to use it. Well, I don't know. There's not a lot of ways to use a drum. Go ahead. Not as bad as I was expecting. Well, did you see the photo? You should have seen the original. Here, I'll show you the photo. Do you want to zoom in on that too? Hold on. Let me get you a photo. Yeah, it looks way better. It's not black anymore. Right. It was the black. There is some red, but that looks like blood. Okay, here you go, Rob. That's what it looked like. Yeah, I mean that.

Big improvement, right? Are you dare we shoot? No! Are you gonna? Oh my God. Wow. So that's where I was putting the safety, hot safety pin through. And then there's soot gathered in the holes as you see. But that, see all that darkness? That's what we were worried about. What an ugly toenail. Um...

But anyways, I skipped out of that appointment. I skipped. Yeah. Because it's fine. Okay. Everything's fine. So there's nothing more for you to do? I don't think so. Oh, I'm going to go see him in three months. Okay. Yeah. Follow up. Yeah. I hope the black doesn't come back. By the way, this is nothing, but it's funny I just said three months because he said, okay, so do you want to come back in three months or do you want to make an appointment?

And I come back in three months or can we wait till season two is out? Should we, you want to coordinate it with the drop of season two? I said, yes. And he goes, which one I go, I want to call and schedule it in three months. Basically I got this, like, I got this commitment phobia right away. I was like, I don't, I can't, I don't know what it was. I was like, I can't commit to coming back in three months right now. Again, you know, I'm already know my issue.

But I'm like, but I'm committing to call the schedule in three months. He's like, well, just leave. Like, I don't know. Why is she with you? I just cannot understand. I'm going to go home and rewatch it and try to wrap my head around why you're. Wait a minute. No way, Carly. The robot is so cute.

I like to drink hot coffee. It gives me a charge in my boots. Look how cute he is. Oh my goodness. That is adorable. He's not on the site. Well, whoever bought this for me, I don't deserve it. My toe's disgusting. No. But thank you. Oh my God. That robot is adorable. That is adorable.

Okay, so there was, that's the toe update. Okay. And I, sorry, I scared Cherries. Yeah. Melanoma-free. I...

Went to New York last weekend and was a part of the New Yorker Festival. Yeah. How cool. It was really cool. Not just my thing, but just even being in the green room. And then Tyler, and I'm afraid to say her last name and I'm embarrassed, but it's F-O-G-G-A-T-T. She is a senior editor at the New Yorker and she's under 30. And she is... Oh, my dad's calling. Oh, great.

Cat eyes. Remember we call them cat eyes? Hey, Monica, what's going on? We just have a quick question about... Cartoons from your childhood. Did you watch cartoons? Did you have cartoons in India? Television cartoons? Yeah.

No. I grew up. I didn't even have a TV. That's what I said. That's what I told Dax, and he didn't believe me. So when's the first time you saw a cartoon? Probably, well, I'm pretty sure. I mean, I can't be sure, but I think only after coming to this country. Yeah, that makes sense. There are many right now, I was told. Right, but not back then. Back then, no. Yeah. As I said, you know, I was in...

Ashok, we're beating around the bush. Monica didn't know what a seahorse looked like, and she's blaming her Indian heritage. And I think that's bullshit. Yeah, Dad, do you know what a seahorse is? I don't. See? Exactly. Oh, wow, you won. Exactly. You won. I knew it. Because also I was saying... I don't.

saying this? One of the smartest men in the world. Yes, because in India, don't you think, Dad, don't you think they put less of an emphasis on animals like pets than they do in America? When I grew up, that was the case. Yeah. But not anymore. Okay. At least, you know, it's really associated with wealth. You know, people get

you know, they have more money. Yeah. Extra food to give to an animal. You have, you know. They have dogs and domesticated pets. You know, we had a dog when I grew up. Dad, you didn't really. You had a feral dog that ran around the house. Obviously, now that, you know, people have a lot of pets and,

I know, but then I'm talking about my generation of parents like you guys. You guys didn't have animals, domesticated animals as much. I don't think because I was saying with kids here, they read storybooks like from early on and they're identifying animals. It's like part of the curriculum. And that's not what you guys did.

No. Yeah. We did not do that. I'm glad to talk to you because I am right. It's very clear. And rare. It's very common. And it's just another one to add to the list. Anyway, sorry we interrupted your meeting.

That's okay. I got to the meeting. That was the only thing. Everything else good? Yeah. Have you watched Nobody Wants This? No. What is it? I think I've heard about it. It's Kristen's new show on Netflix. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've not watched it. No.

Yeah. Dax thinks, well, it's been coming up that a lot of dads have secretly watched it. And so we've been asking around. It's good. It's a it's a good show. Yeah. I will then. OK. It's already on Netflix. Yeah, it is. It is. All right, Dad, we're going to go.

Oh, well, bye. Love you. Bye. Okay. So I was talking about Tyler. She's so impressive. I ended up reading a bunch of her writing before I went and was, she interviewed me and she was so smart and wonderful and impressive. And I had so much fun and she made me cry a bunch of times and it was really, really lovely. But fuck that. Cause now I'm remembering the very funniest thing that happened when we were in New York and I have all,

all the photographic and video evidence of this. Okay. So we went to Robert Downey's play on Friday night, McNeil and Raffy, my friend Raffy's also in it.

And we're sitting in the theater before the show starts. And behind us is, I don't know, four or five women. And they see Kristen. And so they start telling her that they loved her Netflix show. They don't say the title out loud. Now there's three older women in front of us. And they just kind of detect someone's famous behind them, right? Because there's a hubbub.

Yeah. So now they're really curious. I'm watching the whole, I have the best vantage point for this entire thing. So I'm watching that. And then I watched a woman pull out her phone and it's just directly in front of me. It's four feet away from me. And she, Monica and I filmed all this. It's so, I haven't been laughing so hard in so long. She wrote, her first search on Google was like romantic movies. So she searched romantic movies.

Romantic movies. And of course, where's that going to take her? That's Harry Met Sally. And she's just I'm watching her scroll. That's not it. That's not him. And then she refines her search and she writes, what's on Netflix?

Now all this stuff comes up and she's, and now I'm like, I'm nudging Kristen, like, oh my God, look at this woman's trying just like the most carpet bomb search to try to figure out who you are. This is so funny. So she's scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. I've got probably nine minutes of her searching the entire internet. She starts whittling it down. And then she realized because it's movie, that was her cardinal sin is she was usually including movies in her searches. Sure.

Somehow by the minute nine, she gets to TV shows and I'm watching and I have the exact moment where she's scrolling and she sees nobody wants this. And then she hits it really excitedly. And then she moves to her friend and I, I, I dolly right. And I get it and I see her thing. And then her friend sees, and now they're really excited. Then she pulls her phone. Now this is the knockout punch of all knockout punch. And she texts her friend.

Oh, my God. You're not going to believe it. We're sitting in front of Zach Shepard and Kristen Bell. We have the video. We're going to post it. It's nothing could be funnier. Then the person she's texting writes back. It's Dak. Oh, no. My God. Oh, my God. We saw the correction was no. It's Dak with a K.

Holy cow. Was I fucking laughing. And we have the entire thing on video. Oh, my God. Was that funny? I could not get over that. Oh, no, it's Dak. I'm in front of Zach Shepard. Oh, geez. What did she say that made you cry? I think it started with...

And this came up in yesterday's episode. You know, there's going to be a few that they're going to single out of episodes we've had. My mom being one of them. I end up having to explain how special my mom is to me and how she's the foundation of why I'm curious and

She's so empathetic. And I mean, next level empathy where it's like even the bad guy deserves some compassion. Even that kid who killed another kid in a drunk driving accident. What's happening with his family? That spirit of hers. But of course, in trying to describe my mom out loud on a microphone, which I don't do often. Yeah. I couldn't get through it. Aw.

And then I'm trying to tell about the episode, which I can barely kind of get through. Right. And then she's reading some stuff, some reactions to things that were, you know, I was just, I was a mess the first third of it. I was still funny, I hope. I think people were laughing enough. But yeah, I got pretty emotional. What I was thinking when I left was, I was like, A, that...

Of course, I just immediately get insecure, like, God, that's so self-indulgent to be like crying on a stage. You don't make time to sit down and go over your life. You would never like sit there and then just reflect on your life. But then in an interview like that, it's kind of this. I mean, I don't know why I'm saying this is what we do for a living. Yeah. But you're forced to walk through your life a little bit.

Yeah. And I'm at the old age where that makes me emotional now. Yeah, that's very sweet. Yeah. It was really, really fun. And she's incredible. We should interview her at some point. Oh, I would love that. Yeah, she's a powerhouse. That's a ding, ding, ding to Jude because we talked about crying a lot. We did talk about crying a lot. I really liked him. I really, really liked him too. Yeah, he was a very cool person. Okay, a few things that...

Had Cate Blanchett done Elizabeth by the time she did Talented Mr. Ripley? Yes. She did. Was Heart 8 P.T. Anderson's first film his first feature? Yes.

Drugs and alcohol are down with younger generations. That is true. Young adults in the U.S. have become progressively less likely to use alcohol over the past two decades. But the percentages of 18 to 34-year-olds saying they ever drink, that they drink in the past week, and that they sometimes drink more than they should all lower today. Well, those are the three categories.

At the same time, drinking on all three metrics has trended up among older Americans while holding fairly steady among middle-aged adults. That's interesting. Yeah. It would be too blanket of a single explanation of why older people drink more. Yeah. But I do wonder, and I think a lot of people are like, I'll retire. It's going to be great. Life's going to be a blast. No work.

And I get there and I'm like, oh, that's a little boring. I don't really know what the fuck to do. Why doesn't this feel the way I was anticipating for the last 40 years of my labor? And then what are you going to do? Well, let's get drunk. Yeah.

Also in like the rate of drinking in homes is very high because also like they're social with each other. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of interesting. I wonder if your hangovers get they must. It seems like they would get worse and worse and worse because mine just got worse and worse. And as I hear from everyone, as they age, they get worse. They can sleep in a lot, but they don't. They wake up at three thirty in the morning. They're having lunch at 10 a.m. Oh, God. Yeah.

You talked about a group in Germany called the Deutschland something group, but which I couldn't find. But there is a really big group forming in Germany, a far right group called AFD. What's that stand for? The Far Right Alternative for Germany. Yeah. Alternative for Deutschland, I guess. Is that the one? Yeah, that's the one. Oh, got it. Alternative Deutschland. Yeah. Yeah. There's millions of people. It's a very concerning. It's a healthy chunk of people.

So scary. Great Frontline. People should check that out. Oh, yeah. Everyone should just watch more Frontline in general. It's so good. We did not talk about The Substance, so we'll have to talk about it next time because I saw it and we have stuff to discuss. We do. We do. People should try to see it. See it. Between now and next time. Which is dicey because we also told people to watch Chimp Crazy and then we were a little late on our explanation. Well, we also want to give people time to see it. Yeah, we got to give people the time they need. Yeah. People need time.

And that's it. All right. I love you. Love you. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.

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