USS Indianapolis: Disaster at Sea | Rediscovering Indy with Filmmaker Sara Vladic | 5
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From Wondery, I'm Mike Corey, and this is Against the Odds.

Over the last four episodes, we've told the story of USS Indianapolis. In the final months of World War II, the Navy ship was en route to the Philippines when it was blasted by torpedoes from a Japanese submarine. Those who survived the attack were plunged into the ocean where they would wait five days to be rescued. Of the roughly 1,200 crew members, only 316 survived.

Today, I'm speaking with author and filmmaker Sarah Vladek. For her documentary, USS Indianapolis, The Legacy, Sarah spent a decade interviewing the survivors and their families. She's also co-author of the book Indianapolis, the true story of the worst sea disaster in U.S. naval history and the 50-year fight to exonerate an innocent man. And in 2017, she was the first person to call the survivors when the wreckage of the ship had finally been found. Sarah Vladek.

72 years after it sank. Sarah Vladek, welcome to Against the Odds. Thank you for having me, Mike. I have to tell you, before this story came on my lap here, I had never heard of it before. And I became the guy over the holiday break talking about it to everyone because I became almost obsessed with the story and the layers and the complexity. And for me, being able to read all this and understand it

It was just mind-blowing. So tell me the story of how you first came across this amazing part of history. Similarly, I heard about it and became obsessed. But initially, I was watching a documentary with my dad. I was about 13, and they're talking about World War II. And then in one sentence, they said, it was the ship that carried the bomb and ended the war, and it was sunk. And that was it. I was like, excuse me? It did all these things? And

It got one line at the end of a documentary. And so I was totally that kid that went to the library and looked for it and tried to find anything I could find on it. And there was nothing. It wasn't in history books. Teachers didn't know anything about it.

And so I thought, well, someone needs to tell the story. Someone needs to make a movie about this. And that was kind of the seed that was planted. And then flash forward, when I graduated from college, no one had done that yet. And so I was like, well, I'm going to do it. You know, like every kid dreams like,

you know, in your early 20s, you can do anything and it'll only take like a year, maybe two. And, you know, here we are decades later, but still, it was just this incredible story and it deserved a place in history. And so that kind of started all

all of it. And when you were digging around, you just saw little bits and fragments about the ship that ended the war. Was there really anything else or was that just it, a few lines? There were a couple books that were really hard to get a hold of at that time. And still even that made me want to know more. And I was like, who are these men and what is their story? And oh my gosh, how do I talk to them? And so, you know, back then Ask Jeeves was like the only search engine. I

I mean, date myself, but I asked Jeeves and, you know, finally found the Survivors Organization and I called him and I said, hey, you know, I want to learn more about your story. And through a series of phone calls, they invited me to a reunion.

So I was just out of college, like weeks out of college. And I mean, for me, this was like seeing the greatest celebrity. Like I was just in awe that I could go be in a room with these heroes and their families. And they just took me in like a granddaughter almost from the beginning where they were so excited. I think someone young wanted to hear their story. Yeah, just embraced it.

You know, at the beginning, they all kind of have a canned answer, an answer that's like, here's what happened. And it's like separate from their emotions. It's the answer they tell everyone. But I learned over the years, I spent many, many years hanging out with them, with their families, going to their homes. You know, I traveled the country interviewing them. And as I knew them more and they trusted me more, I got to hear the whole story.

And that's where I really felt privileged in this entire experience was that they trusted me enough to tell me these things that they had never told anyone else before. And you stepping in was like the key for them, I would imagine, because again, the world forgot this story until someone like you came around with the magic key to be able to open it up. So when you were having these first conversations, was there any particular one that stands out as being vivid or emotional or something like that?

It's hard to pick one. It's like picking a favorite child. But the things that stood out were more the messages. There were survivors by the name of Richard Thielen and Harpo Salaya, who really taught me the idea of never give up and what that actually meant. And so they would tell me that from the beginning. And as a kid, I was kind of like, OK, cool, whatever. ♪

You know, not dismissing it, but also like, yeah, you hear that everywhere. Never give up. But to understand what that really meant and what they faced and then what they faced coming home. It wasn't just they survived this ordeal. It was now surviving with living through that ordeal and what that meant. And teaching me no matter what life throws at you, never give up. And for Harpo, it was, you know, mantate fuerte, which means stay strong.

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Sarah, you had mentioned that when you first came across the story, you reached out and you heard there was a group that was meeting, and it was the survivors and the survivors' families. So why did this group exist? Was it their own kind of form of support group that they had created after the incident? What had happened was some of the survivors decided that they really needed to get together. You know, this is like almost 15 years after the sinking. And so they decided to start the first reunion, which was in 1960.

And I think at that point they realized how important gatherings were because in any massive event, in any tragedy, the only people you can really talk to who understand are those who lived through it. And that was really a form of healing for all of them in such an enormous way. The wives said that it changed them. For many of them, this was the kind of therapy that they needed. And the more they met, the more they talked about it, the more they bonded, they were able to heal.

And when you were interviewing these men, was it hard for them to tell these stories? It was 60 years of living with this story before I came into the picture. But initially, they wouldn't talk about it at all. I mean...

to the point where their kids didn't even know they served on that ship. Their wives didn't know what they went through. They bottled this up for decades. They would not talk about it. And I think what really, really happened in those waters and what they witnessed and lived through, they lived with enormous survivor's guilt for their entire lives. What is often said about the Indy survivors is that they all went to the water and no man came out the same as when he was on that ship. You know, they all, in some sense, died on that ship.

And so they carried that for 70 now, six years, they live with that burden and it is a fabric of who they are. What did they have to say that they told you that getting together really did help them with the PTSD? Absolutely. They were able to talk about it more freely. A lot of questions were answered for them. You know, as you know, with the story, they were spread out over so many miles and had different experiences. So those who were on the raft for those five nights and four days, um,

They had a different experience than the men who didn't have anything in the water. And so they started to fill in the pieces. They were able to answer each other's questions like, did you see this person? You know, these were, they were like a family. This was a small city with people.

With almost 1200 people on this ship, many who had served together for years and didn't know when the last time their friend was seen. So those were kind of things that helped them heal. And then even, you know, the rescue pilots started coming too. And then that was a whole nother element and layer to it where they filled in, you know, most of the guys were so out of their minds by the time they were rescued, they don't even remember what happened.

So the rescue pilots and ship crew were able to fill in those pieces as well. As it went on in years, the survivors would bring their wives, they would bring their children, and the children would get to know each other and friendships were found there too. So it's really like a family reunion in the best sense, you know, where every year we look forward to seeing each other and finding out what everyone's been up to. And we share stories and you hear, you know, each time we'll learn a little bit more about what took place during that time. And even during the war, you know, the

This ship was an incredible ship that had such a storied legacy.

And that's often forgotten because of the sinking. And so it's neat to, you know, go back and hear stories from some of the survivors who had served on it. And they would tell you what it was like to have FDR aboard the ship, or it would tell you what it's like to have, you know, Nimitz commanding the entire Pacific war from the deck of the ship. So those kinds of things, you know, you get to hear more of when you come to these reunions and they're gigantic events and they're so, they're so fun. They're so healing and, um,

It's, you know, we tease each other. It's just like a big family. It's fantastic.

It's really hard to describe with words how formidable that ship was. And it wasn't until I watched your documentary where there was a shot of it going under the Golden Gate Bridge. And you're like, holy cow, it is a massive thing. It was like two football fields long. I mean, you know, this is a gigantic ship and it was beautiful. I mean, gosh, I wish I could have seen anything even close to it. It was called a flagship, right? So what does flagship mean?

So a flagship is when the Admiral's flag is being cast out so that those who are around the ship know the Admiral is present.

And what that meant for Indianapolis was that Spruance was aboard the ship at that time. He was a commander of the Pacific War. So essentially, he was under Nimitz with Halsey, and together those two commanded the Pacific War. So all these famous battles you hear, Okinawa, Iwo Jima, Saipan, Tinian, all those battles were commanded from the deck of Indianapolis. So Shibuya

She was essentially the quarterback, you know, very significant role to play in the war. And in the beginning, you said that you saw a blurb that said it was the boat that ended the war. And that's because there was these mysterious boxes. I believe there were lead boxes that contained something that the men didn't know at the time. What was the cargo exactly? We know it was the bombs or was it parts of the bombs? What exactly was in the boxes?

So there was the large box. It was a wood crate. It was the size of a Volkswagen. And what caught their interest was the fact that there was a Marine Guard that guarded it 24-7 for the entire journey. And that was actually a diversionary tactic. They had everyone's attention on this box they were guarding, but all that was was like material for the war. It was luggage. It was nothing really of significance.

The real part that they carried, they transported was the uranium. And those were in lead buckets. And those were in small containers carried into the Admiral's flag quarters and welded to a bed. And they had the two army officers who were undercover and they guarded that.

And so this uranium was, it was part of the bomb. But what was significant about that is that we only had enough uranium for one bomb. And if something happened to this, it would have taken months in order to gather enough to rebuild this. And so it was incredibly urgent to get it there. You know, we would have invaded Japan. It would have been an entirely different narrative.

Had that not made it safely. So yeah, all the men's attention was on this box. And they were teenagers. They were like 16, 17, 18-year-old kids. And of course, their imagination runs wild. And they're thinking, oh, it's alcohol for the admirals. Oh, it's the best one I heard was that they thought it was Rita Hayworth's underwear.

which why that would be in a box that large, I don't know. Or scented toilet paper. So these, they all, they were placing bets and needless to say, no one got that bet right.

So Indianapolis delivers the bomb components. Then it continues off into the Philippine Sea. It gets torpedoed by a Japanese sub. It sinks in just a few minutes, 12 minutes, I believe. 12 minutes, yeah. Yep. And then the men are thrown into the water or they jump into the water. They're struggling to stay afloat. It's chaos. And then the sun comes up and they're spread across a large area and they're floating together in different groups. Okay.

So can you kind of explain that right there? How did these groups get all in different areas? How did they come together? What was it really like there? What did they say? When the ship was torpedoed, men were blown off the ship instantly. Those that were near the bow of the ship, the front of the ship, they saw what was coming. I mean, the bow was blown off. And if you were anywhere close to that, you knew it was doomed. There was no saving the ship. So those men started to abandon ship early.

And then there were those who stayed on till, you know,

12 minutes, the fantail is up in the air and they're jumping off the fantail, you know, 40, 50, 100 feet into the water. So men are starting to go off. They're sliding off the deck. And this is over a span of about a mile. So those who went off initially, they were just out in the water. They didn't have anything unless they grabbed a life jacket. As the ship starts tilting, all the stuff is sliding into the water, the rafts, the

You know, if there's any supplies and the men jumping off in those groups would have had more access to the supplies. There weren't a lot of rafts that made it off, but they would have some kind of life-saving material. Those that jumped off the fantail, they had nothing. And so it all depended on where you went off the ship and when you went off the ship.

So then you have to imagine if you're in the swell or you're caught in eddies, they're sending people in different directions. So they all started spreading out in these different areas that expanded to about 25 miles by the time they were rescued. So needless to say, when they're spread out more than five miles, they're not seeing each other anymore. They're not hearing each other anymore.

There's no way to know who lived, who died, and who's with you. So as far as the men were concerned, the only people that survived were the ones that were in their peripheral view. The first time they really knew how many people survived was when they landed in the hospital in Guam. And that's where they realized there was only 316 of the original 1195. Wow.

And these groups were how many men, roughly each? The larger groups started off with like 300 to 400. And then the smaller groups were maybe a dozen. And then there were individuals who, there was two survivors who found a rolled up floater net and sat on it cowboy style for the entire time. It was just the two of them. They thought they were the only survivors. Oh.

And so it ranged really across the board. And, you know, there were only about a total of 30 men who got on rafts. So, I mean, in the scheme of 1,200 men, 30 getting on a raft, you know, is very, very small. Can you talk a bit about...

The equipment that they had, the life-saving equipment on the boat and what they had to work with, I heard it wasn't exactly ideal. No, it was far from ideal. And in fact, the Navy changed everything because of this event with respect to the equipment and what was on a ship. But they had gray Kapok life jackets that were rated to last between 48 and 72 hours. And

And they were in the water for at least 96 hours, if not more. And when the rescuers pulled them on board the ship or the plane, they would cut off the life jacket, throw it in the water, and it would sink like a rock.

And so they said, you guys were holding up the life jackets by the end. And there was even stories of fresh water being dropped down in little casks and the casks exploding on impact on the ocean. Imagine that feeling. Oh, man. There is one story where one of the survivors talked about how there were three cans dropped and they kept exploding. And finally, the third one exploded.

He caught it and he just cried out, like thanking God that he finally had water because he thought he was going to lose all three of them. And he was just so devastated by this, like repeatedly. I'm thinking you just survived five days of going through hell. And then this, you know. Yeah. Soul crushing on top of soul crushing. All these different things just went so wrong and no one had prepared for this kind of tragedy.

And so a lot of changes came, but it was at the cost of many lives. And I had heard on top of the equipment not being adequate, they were not trained how to abandon ship or trained how to use the equipment either. And most of them didn't know how to swim either because, you know, in the war machine, they're sending these young kids who were from farms who had never even seen the ocean or a large ship. And, you know, one of the guys said, he joked, he said, before this, I never saw anything bigger than a tractor. Again, that changed things. You know, there's,

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The story originally interested me because, well, for a lot of reasons, but one of them is because I do have a marine biology background and I'm an avid scuba diver. And if you spend time in the water, you realize there's a lot of hype about sharks and very little of it is true. We talk all about shark attacks, but the reality is we kill 100 million sharks a year as humans and sharks kill under 10 a year. So when I heard there was a mass shark attack, I was like, really?

Because that never really happens. And it doesn't really happen, except for this situation where there was an extraordinary circumstance, right? Yeah. And what we found in researching this, the ocean was much more heavily populated with sharks at that time than it is now. And not just that, but there's the specific species, the oceanic white tip, that was very well known to follow ships.

for the trash that was thrown off for various reasons, they would follow these ships. And then when this event happened and to have that many men in the water for that long, this is kind of an exception, but really it was that particular species of shark were known for hunting humans. That was a thing. But, you know, I'm also a scuba diver. I'm a triathlete. I'm in the ocean a lot. And, you know, I can tell you I've seen many sharks and they never hunted me.

So I think it was very much the circumstances, but then you also have to remember that there were hundreds of bodies floating in the water all around these men the whole time. I mean, this is very graphic, but there were body parts always present. There was so much blood and essentially everything I think you could want as a shark.

right there in one spot in the middle of the Pacific in the perfect temperature. These sharks weren't going out of their navigation patterns to seek this out. It was a scenario that, again, was the perfect situation for this kind of attack. And with this, there's a very iconic scene in Jaws where there's the salty sea captain who speaks about this particular incident. And I think

I'd like to talk about that because honestly, being a shark lover for the most part, the scene is really well done. He really dramatizes the whole thing, but...

What do you think Jaws' impact on USS Indianapolis was, the story? Honestly, I think it did a very good thing for the story and the survivors because it brought that attention back to the story. No one knew this story. And in fact, there's more than one, more than probably a handful of children of survivors who said the reason they found out their dad was even on that ship was because Jaws.

And so a survivor by the name of Dick Thielen, his son Dave and I were talking and he said, yeah, I came home from the movie theater. And I said, Dad, oh my gosh, there was a story, the shark movie, and they had this part of it. And they were talking about the Navy. And when you were in the Navy, did you ever see anything like that? And he actually said that to his mother first. His mother said, go talk to your dad. He was on that ship.

And that was the first time he ever heard that story. And so this was an opportunity for the public and families to start asking questions from their dads, from their uncles, from their loved ones who had served aboard it. And it changed things for them. I think they started getting a little more notoriety because of it. And they never wanted that.

I think they wanted the opportunity to speak about the shipmates that they lost. And this gave more attention to that. And it really helped a lot of them. When these men spoke about the past, how did they speak about sharks in the ocean?

Well, well, many of them would not even take a bath about the ocean, you know, talking about the ocean and going near it water again, they were so traumatized by that, that the whole situation that they didn't want to take a bath or go in a pool or anything. So they, you know, they carried that with them all the way to the end 76 years later, they'll still talk about the sharks. And what I believe for them was so traumatic was the fact that it was roulette, they never knew who was going to get taken.

And I can't even begin to understand what that would be like and how afraid you would be that you were next. And so, you know, that was their opinion of sharks. So over the years, many times different conservation groups would try to get them to talk about sharks. And they're like, you really don't want my answer. I mean, I can totally see how.

that would scar you for life. But it sounds like you do share the same attitude as I do to not wanting to sensationalize how sharks are murder machines, but obviously it's a very important and dramatic part of the story. So when you were telling the story in the book and in the documentary, how did you go? How did you go about that? The shark element is really what draws people and jaws and all that. As you mentioned, there's something that draws people to this story that

But there's so much more. And I think we really wanted to focus on that so much more to give an understanding that it wasn't just a massive shark attack. It was

a tragedy in every sense and more attention need to be given to the things they faced that were far worse. Like the fact of no one seemed to care that they were gone. And it seemed like the attitude was, okay, well, obviously they're going to know that our flagship is missing and they'll send a rescue ship, but then the rescue ship didn't come. Did they speak much about that feeling? Oh yeah. I would say looking in the rear view mirror, they spoke about how disappointed they were.

But the one element that every single one of the survivors I spoke to talked about was never giving up hope. And they held on to that. You know, even when it didn't seem like it was going to happen, they still had some hope. They trusted in the sense that something would save them. And, of course, many died despite that. But still...

They held on to that. I crunched some numbers before the podcast here, and it said that Indy was about $10 million at that point to build, something like that. And I equated that with some inflation calculator that it said it was a $20 million ship by today's standards. How the hell did a $20 million ship just go missing and no one care?

You know, I don't generally like to use this phrase, but it was a perfect storm of many errors that took place. Some negligence, some just oversight. Everything had to go perfectly wrong for this to happen. All the way from the command and the ship that they were supposed to report to never got the message. It was garbled and they didn't know that India was coming to meet with them.

The command that they left, there is something called the chop, which was where the two different commands divided. And everyone, you know, if you're on this side of the longitude and latitude, you were under this command. And if you were on the other side, you were on another command. Well, once that ship crossed over the chop, they were out of their jurisdiction. So they no longer were worried about that ship. And then, you know, the SOS was not received. And so the ship disappears and nobody knows. Nobody's looking. And they should have been.

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One person received the point, and that was Captain Charles McVeigh, who was then court-martialed a few months later and then eventually was blamed for the entire incident. Why do you think it was him that was singled out opposed to somebody else? You know, historians have pondered that for many, many years. There's a lot of theories. There was that the families wanted someone to be responsible for

you know, the families of those who lost a loved one. There was theories that Admiral King, who was leading the investigation, that he had a vendetta against the McVeigh family. There were all these different theories, but really what it came down to is that this is following the end of the

war. So there's victory, there's celebration. There are these leaders who are the heroes of the war. There's Nimitz and these admirals that we've all seen on the names of schools and streets and they're celebrities in every sense, right? And in order to prosecute McVeigh in the way they should have, those men, those heroes would have all had to have been dragged through the court-martial. It would have tarnished the names. It would have changed the public outlook of

who won the war and kind of stolen from the victory in some sense. And so it all concludes that McVeigh was the one who the blame could fall on with the least amount of impact in the bigger picture to the war and to the victory of the allies. And that was a twist of the story that crushed me. And I'm so distant from this story that he was blamed for all of this.

And he eventually killed himself because of it. Yeah. The burden that he had to bear after the war was he loved his crew. He loved his ship. He loved his men that he served with. These were his social circle. These were his friends. So he had to go home as the captain of this ship.

to all the wives, the now widows, who were his closest friends and be one of the only surviving officers. Imagine all the people that he would have to face and explain about why their son never came home. And so as the years went on, he carried that burden. And one of the things that came from the court-martial was the responsibility for this entire tragedy was McVeigh's fault.

So imagine at that time, they didn't have the communication that we have now. They didn't have the internet. You were given what you were told and that was it. So these families, all they had was the Navy saying, this man was responsible for the death of your son, the death of your husband, the death of your father. And so McVeigh would receive these letters constantly. My son is not here celebrating Christmas with us because of you.

He would have celebrated this 21st birthday, but he didn't because of you. So there was a lot of anger directed at McVeigh because of that until more information was revealed. And then the families found out all the extenuating circumstances and everything that was happening. One of the highlights or one of the things that was the first breath of relief he had is he actually went to the first reunion in 1960.

And he dreaded it. He was invited and he was so scared they were going to, you know, jump on him about this thing. And every single man, every survivor, their family, when he walked off the play and they stood up and saluted him and honored him and they told him how much they appreciated him and how they felt he was so wronged. But it was still such a burden to carry for all those years that when, you know, in 1968, when he took his life, like he just couldn't take it anymore. Yeah.

Yeah, well, you would be haunted, haunted by that. And all the what ifs, what if I did this? What if that happened? It would be torture. Yeah. Another part of this story that is very interesting is that during the court-martial, they actually brought the Japanese submarine commander, Hashimoto, to testify. And this was the first time that had ever been done, was to bring the enemy into a trial of one of our own to testify about the events as they happened from his point of view.

One of the things that the prosecuting attorney and the court latched onto was this failure to zigzag. And what zigzagging was, was a tactic used to evade Japanese submarines during the war. It was literally the ship zigzagging back and forth.

But that was only used in combat waters, in active hot zones. And McVeigh was told it was perfectly safe. They were in the backwaters of war. There was nothing going on and nothing to be worried about. When Koshimoto comes to the courtroom and they ask him about that night, he straight up says, I would have sunk that ship whether or not it was zigzagging because it was headed right for him. So it was not safe.

Something that McVeigh should have been held responsible for, but it was a fact and it was something that he could be held responsible for. And that was the only charge that they could nail him on. And that's what Hashimoto was called in to tell. But really, he was fighting for the captain at that point. Despite the absolute tragedy, it seems like Hashimoto's family was actually killed.

embraced by the survivors and they would come to the reunions as well. So tell me about that. Yeah, it was actually a young lady by the name of Atsuko. She's the granddaughter of Commander Hashimoto. And her son, John, actually talked her into coming to their first reunion in 2001. And she was scared to death.

No doubt. Yeah, we actually went to our first reunions the same year and it was, you know, news and everyone's talking about it and Atsuko shows up

And she did it in such a humble manner and with such respect for these men. And what she had said and what her grandfather had told her is we didn't win the war. And there was no joy in the lives that came in the loss of Indianapolis for them. So she kind of felt like they had this kinship in the tremendous loss that they both experienced at the end of the war.

And this joint tragedy that they shared and would forever be, you know, connected because of. And they took her in. They hugged her. They welcomed her. And it was one of the coolest things I think I've ever experienced. There was so much crying. Everyone was a hot mess. But there was just...

A shared respect and honor in having the bravery to come to the reunion and on behalf of your family say, like, I am sorry. And can we heal together was kind of the message that came about from that day. And her mother, Commander Hashimoto's daughter, came eventually. And then Atsuko started bringing her daughter and her sons. And they're just part of the Indy family now.

You saying that gives me goosebumps because, of course, Commander Hashimoto fired two torpedoes at USS Indianapolis and killed a lot of people. However, they did deliver pieces to the bombs that were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and we both know that killed a lot of people as well. And the group of survivors and rescuers and families of the deceased being able to have a relationship with the family of Commander Hashimoto as well is really, really touching.

So you had mentioned that when you were interviewing the survivors after and the families, that they didn't put blame on McVeigh. So how did they react to him being court-martialed? They were horrified. They were so incensed about it. And really, when they found out McVeigh took his own life, that's really what was the catalyst to make an honest effort to fight this case.

and to move forward with what they wanted was an exoneration. And that was back in 1968. They really, in earnest, started fighting this. And they walked the halls of Congress. They wrote letters to everyone who they could get an address for. And, you know, this is before the internet. So this was much more challenging at the time and access was limited. But they fought. They fought hard. And they would spend the next five decades fighting this until McVeigh's name would be cleared.

And then finally, around the year 2000, he was finally exonerated. So that was one piece of the puzzle that was rectified. There's another piece, though, that just recently, just about five years ago, got put into place, too. And that was the wreck was found 72 years later.

Something like a mile below what the depth of the Titanic is. Yeah, it was like four miles down or something. Which is ridiculous. So how did they find this and who paid for it and how did it all happen? So over the years, the attempt to find Indianapolis had been made multiple times by various oceanographic institutes, groups, etc. All the folks who do this, who go look for shipwrecks, had tried.

And so when the word came that there was another group that was involved, it was like, okay, we've heard this before, you know, kind of came up. And so this particular group was Paul Allen, you know, the Paul Allen as of the Microsoft Paul Allen. He was behind the financing of this expedition and they had some new information.

That was leading them to hone in more on the coordinates. And then, of course, there's new technology with sonar side scans and open ocean mapping. It opened up new opportunities to see new things they had not seen before. But then we'd heard there were setbacks and we just thought, OK, well, they're not going to find it again. Long story short, it was three in the morning when I get a phone call from Captain Toady. He said, Sarah, they found her.

I'm like, what are you doing in the morning? I'm like, what are you talking about? This is a dream. Okay, great. He's like, you have till 9am to contact the survivors. Why? Because it was going to go public at 9am. Yes, it was going to go public at 9am. And so there I am like, okay, great.

I got a call to survivors. Also in that time, we had to build a webpage and be ready for the onslaught of what this would mean that they found the Indianapolis. And I had to learn how to build a webpage and do that all before 9 a.m. It was a crazy morning. And so there we are. And, you know, I'm okay. I have to call these men.

And in addition to that, there's a lot of families that are very involved with the group of lost at sea families. So they need to be called too, because they're about to get this news. But I just, I will never forget those moments of calling, you know, Sam Lopez and John Wolston and Glenn Morgan. And these men say, we found your ship. And there was just the emotions.

It was very somber. It was not a jubilation by any means, but it was very somber. And then a lot of them deal with hardship with jokes. So there was jokes. Yeah. There was the, hey, my money sock is in there from 50 years ago. Do you think they'll get it? Probably not. Probably not. I'm pretty sure that's dissolved by now. Yeah. And so there was some bits of levity here and there, but overall it was just awesome.

Ah, I think more than anything, it was I never thought it would happen. But not just finding it, recording video footage of it, too. And seeing that 35, you know, the whole number on the ship when the first footage that was revealed to us before it went public was the image of the 35. And he says, you know, we found her.

You know, you see eyeglasses, you see coats, you see things that are still there. And you're like, how is that still there? But just, you know, who do they belong to? And it just made it more human to see those things in that moment. It was incredible. And to watch the guys watch that footage was just...

Yeah. Mind blowing. Because they would have memories running across those decks and, you know, hanging out with the boys and everything. And just having those experiences or seeing, you know, K.O. Irwin was one of the survivors and he's just sitting there staring at an iPad. His eyes are this big. And his son sent me the footage of him watching this and just, it was unreal. You know, they say it offered closure, but I think it wasn't that it offered closure. It was that

They had kind of a bit of an end to their story. For the families of the lost at sea, of course, they will never have that true closure. They won't know how their loved one was lost unless, you know, one of the shipmates told them. But for the most part, you know, that mystery went down with the ship.

Of course, no one knows exactly where it is. I think there's six people on Earth that know the exact coordinates of where that ship is, and it will stay that way to protect it as a gravesite from treasure hunters or whatnot. So having just that general area of knowing where the ship is is a sense of like, we have some peace about this, and now we can say our loved one is here. It was a big deal for the families.

How many Indy survivors are left? We actually lost one more survivor this past week. So we're down to two. And for you, these men have become a very important part of your journey as well, professionally and personally. What's it been like for you? Well, now it's been like losing a lot of grandparents. You know, they are family. But, you know, back in 2003, I

In a Denny's in Las Vegas, of all places, they sat me down as a group. And there were a few of them that showed up to represent the group. And they said, Sarah, we want you to be our storyteller. We really think you're the person to keep our legacy alive. And there's no greater honor.

that I have ever been asked in my life. And I think that I will carry that till my last breath and having this privilege to keep this story alive. And so it's like, okay, you have a job and you can't let them down. Well, Sarah, incredible story. And you've done an incredible job sharing that with the documentary and the book. And I want to say thank you for speaking with us today. Thank you. Thanks for telling the story. Really appreciate it.

On our next season, in 1921, a group of Arctic explorers established a settlement on a remote island off the coast of Siberia. Two years later, when a supply ship finally reached them, only one member of the expedition was still alive. A young Inuit woman named Ada Blackjack will tell the incredible true story of how she taught herself to survive alone in the Arctic wilderness.

This is the final episode of our series USS Indianapolis, Disaster at Sea. If you'd like to learn more about this event, we highly recommend the book Indianapolis, The True Story of the Worst Sea Disaster in U.S. Naval History and the 50-Year Fight to Exonerate an Innocent Man by Lynn Vincent and Sarah Vladek. I'm your host, Mike Corey. This episode was produced by Peter Arcuni. Brian White is our associate producer.

Our audio engineer is Sergio Enriquez. Our senior producer is Andy Herman. Our executive producers are Stephanie Jentz and Marshall Dewey. For Wondery.

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