Sessions: David Senra (Founders Podcast)
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I found the sky tweet something a couple days ago, whether I was already, he goes, most people's a learn clock is David gog's telling them to wake up and get after mile on pockets. David yelling at me, telling me to be like Edwin land. And I repetition works.

who got.

Easy, you wait, you wait, you who? Easy, you, you, you see me down, down. Welcome to this special episode .

of acquired, the podcast about great technology companies and the stories and playbooks behind them.

I'm been gilbert.

David is all, and we are your hosts. Today's episode is our next instalment of acquired sessions, a video format on youtube that we started playing with last year. Our guest today is David sra of the founders podcast.

David is quite possibly the only person we know who is more obsessed than us with business history and the lessons that great founders teach us. David? David sra, that is, has read hundreds of founder biography and done deep episodes on the mall.

I don't know that I made friends yet as me, David, but I definitely does. I aspire to be a hundreds. But David center a is just one of our closest pag gestor friends and friends period out there. His show is awesome here on this episode.

We had him out to my living room here in salford, cisco, and we had to stay awesome, really fun multi I multi hour conversation, just like the ones that he and I have scheduled every month on zoom when the mikes are off. And IT was super organic, super unstructured. We covered a tonic ground, including, I think, two nights before we recorded.

David was just coming up from L. A. Where he had dinner with charly monger, as we spend a lot of time talking about that. Charlie influence on David, his influence on all three of us, a bunch of thoughts on advice generally. And as you can imagine, David is sprinkled dozens and dozens of historical examples and founder stories throughout the episode.

IT is crazy. Every time someone's making a point, he'll dive in. This is just like that thing. Edward said that one time.

or David ogle v or cocoa, or who have you.

David is definitely close with the eminent dead. I will say after editing this episode, I had one enormous takeaway. David, SAndra is really, really in the podcasting.

So get fired up to meet him on his level, right? Quick things. Go follow A C Q two brand new show to any podcast player available for free. Becoming L P. There is voting going on right now for our next episode, which L P, S, all have input on, and for every new lp that joins, we will shoot you an email to your inbox, voting clothes about a week after this comes out, and we are straight up picking whatever you tell us the next episode should be with really no editor real for us. So help us direct the next episode, join the slack.

IT is one of the only places on the internet with this super high level of incredibly thoughtful discussion by well connected, kind folks with a deep appreciation for history. People meet the founders, they find jobs and they get nuance takes on the news of the day in there. So join at acquired data, FM, slash, slack.

Lastly, the show is not investment advice. David and I may have investment in the companies we discuss, and the show is for informational and entertainment purposes only. Now onto acquired sessions. So David, do not tell us who you had dinner with the other night.

I had a three hour dinner with charlemont .

that is awesome.

where I can ask him any questions that you want well for. So I guess we should back up. It's like there's a reason that he's so admired by so many people.

But for for me particularly, you get a lot meet a lot of really interesting people because of the work that we do, right? So that's like a blessing and something that I know we've had conversation as we deeply appreciate. But Charles, a different level for me, like I literally think of him like the wise grandfather I never had.

Um I know that all kinds people I don't really get like nervous or star struck. I was legitimately like shaking the day before I was like I cannot believe I I didn't want to tell them me people, because like, this is no way this is going to like I just, I won't believe I told what actually happens. We do very similar work, right?

It's like how many people have spent six, seven years, tens of thousands of hours, reading hundreds of books about the history and neural and investing in. Now i'm reading IT taking no time on IT making a high cast. Do I bring that up? Is because you think about all the different companies and founders.

You guys have studied all the different companies and founders that i've studied, right? And like even among the the rare sort of people, charly still stands out. And a crazy thing is he's ninety nine, right? And so I get there and we start off in this library, which is like the best place for me that you could pass. We see the days.

how big is the livery? How many books are we talking about?

It's not one of his family members was there too. And she's like, all this is like nothing.

This is like the future. Wait, do you see the back?

Yeah so it's like, it's simple, like the room in like you know very similar size and you know floor ceiling shells and so on with A A smoke able friends and in fact uh neutral friends for us, people that set this up for us or for me was uh Andrew wilkinson and Chris founders of tiny arms, your friends and um and we're sitting there and there's actually a funny thing where IT starts out and they they know both warn and charily theyve talked him before so they go right into IT. And then like i'm sitting there and I had this whole list of pilot twenty five question I was going .

to asked if you you like prepared in events I know you did.

I never got a chance to open my phone because I was just singers like i'm looking at them and he's, you know very close like, you know maybe a little before respect to.

I take up .

my phone that you and I had, you know, read every single book on Charles. I watched all of his videos. Like, I have studied this guy forever. And so every time he had said, hey, read this book, I go and read the book. And then I see a bunch of the books that he is recommended behind them so people like, oh, was he as like you're expected like they say, hey, be careful, don't make your heroes right he was unbelievably gracious, you know um as a hater that you mind if I take a look at your bookshop right is like to what everyone just unbelievably polite still like biting intellect for rocio intelligence ninety ninety nine. So we were talking earlier um uh downstairs where the scary thing about charity is I remember asking a question about Henry kaiser h the sky that was super famous when I was Younger.

He built like a hundred companies built over down like he was as famous in his time is like elon muskets today, right but no one knows he is um and I was asking me questions about charly in the book, and his recall is just insane to the point. I asked me, go, how do you know this IT? Because I knew as partner.

Then he starts stone stories about being knowing, like having a lisa with hendry, kisses business part. And then all these three hours are just unbelievable stories. And then I go charly like, how do you remember? Or something like, do you write? IT like, you take notes, you read, read the books over over again is like, note and all, I think I like, imagine, wow, that guy's mind.

And ninety nine is still so sharp. I had brought a gift form because he he talks about, like, rock fell a time. I bought him this special addition, a stand edition version of Henry flagler .

biography flag.

So I live in miami, the guy less stanford. I think this is the author of that book um he is good friends with this is only one local bookshop in miami called books of books and so less is a local author who's good friends with the owner of that book store so they did IT. But you can get this booking. Rose is a special edition book.

likely moved to florida after six.

Yes, yeah.

that he's got a fascination ory talk about that where he, I believe we will think because the senate oil, he know fifty, sixty seven years old and is doing this, and he, we know all, build an entire state when he to miami, miami is little less than five hundred people living a swap. He can't look there. There was no A C is time.

And so then he built the world's first 啊 railroad over for connecting to the flood keys。 He is essentially like, we read that looking like, oh, humans have no limits, other the ones we put on ourselves. And so that's what flagged.

He is IT and he doesn't terrible things to words like find a way to divorce his wife. So he literally moves on another stake because you can be divorce in new york, bribes the the, the government of florida. They create the flagger law, which is allows him to get a divorce.

Then he does. I like a few thing a few times. I think he's like the seventies and marriage like a thirty year old, like just not all good.

But that guys, oh, your rules don't apply to me. Like, I will build whatever I want. He built infrastructure, hotels, everything.

This is like one of my the things that I keep learning from founders podcast. And i'm curious if you do IT intentionally or view, like trying not to do IT, but like every single time, like all people aren't perfect, like none of your heroes are perfect. And do you find yourself like because we run, its on acquired a lot. We're like it's not as fun to tell stories about terrible people. And so you you like don't want to show someone's negative side as much because IT does not like it's just when we .

are really we fall in love with them.

we're right. And you're like by that, there are the most extraordinary person on this one access to ever live. And we we should talk about how the a flawed person in many ways, but it's not funded well on like you kind of want to like move through that, be like yp yap, they were flawed. Here's the next amazing thing that they did. Like how do you handle that?

I going to have a Normal biography is wrong, right? It's like way too much family history. Like I want to know some family history. I don't want five generations but not like I don't want to know the real last name. I don't .

qualification the tik e biography ding style at this point.

So so why we're reading IT is like everyone want to know the climb, right? It's like how did you you guys I just went through your entire to get part of the prop for Charles listening to all of your bircher episode where you guys do a fantastic a job on this because like the first who was like the Young charlie, the Young warn.

So I would literally, and i've done this forever, like, I don't we need like a warm buffet or bend Franklin or George wash. Anyway, it's super families. When we see them is like, oh, who's the bend Frankland one hundred old bill, right? Who's the washington on the dollar bill or who's buff IT at the the meeting in oma? No, no, that's the guy that is is enjoying the fruits of the person in the pire.

I go in state pictures like a freak at, like a Young Charles monger when he was like thirty eight or Young warm buffet, right? Young people. Ce.

first we end episode without even getting .

a episodes.

Sam .

walton didn't start forty four, yeah, but he was doing twenty five years of practice and learning and he wouldn't just sitting .

on his ass stuff that looked off a lot .

like walmart learning from that. And so what .

is totally like, I mean, asi, but we have no agenda that is like I think both an advantage that like we have all three of us and like kind of a secret that we have, which is that like we did, we did walmart. We want to to do amazon. And so we like, how do we do amazon, right? We got to do walmart first. People want this. This is the right way to study thing I think .

I would like you brought up because I think this is why people get a lot of value. And I don't wanted to make us about here is acquired. The reason that some of the people in our audiences are the most successful people in the world, they're all reading about fees.

They're all studying history of uh of business. I told you guys few. So I I was very lucky to have a two hour one and one lunch with sam l that I didn't think was possible.

I realized in that conversation, you know, make, you know, seem of company for most forty billion dollars, right? A billions, you know, build the company, sell for forty billion dollars, and then learn all this. It's like he was doing this since he was, since he was Young. We were talking in his auto bio.

We think I I think my favorite episode pads is the kobe and episode ah because like this is what these guys are doing. They're like kobe, brian.

They're watching game tape.

They're watching game tape. They're working on the fundamentals from the time they are twelve through the time they die, they don't stop.

I think that's what um listen to acquired and founders. This is your watching game tape of his Grace entrees and did this when you Younger but this is together where bill girly had a fantastical about this, a treat about this, when all that cypher was going crazy and like the run up and people getting rich. And he's like, one thing I don't like and i'm permission because I don't I exactly to talk about this.

He's like, I don't like the the Young, Younger people grating the people that came before them and he's like, he made the point that none of none of histories and investors did that. They had the opposite perspective. All of them had idols.

You just made the point. You can understand your faces. And so sam walton can understand. Sam walton, to you understand gc penny and sol Price.

And even though contemporary, like the point that what noise made was, I don't think my competitors are stupid. I want to go shop my competitors and get all of their very best insights and then bring them in to my store.

Hundred people, they are learning machines. yeah. And so you get to charlies going tangs.

Well, back to this. You get to charlies bookshelf, and it's just babies have never heard of. And I do this for a living.

I do a living out. What is this book? And I start looking like i've just taking picture to picture, picture everyone.

So we're talking about this idea that like the the way to get truth is to weave together the tapestry of all of history stories of things that are a Jason to understand， like how this opportunity to start some business came to be. And you always have to, like all history is revisionist and all history bias.

And so I think one of the hardest things about making required epo de is figuring out, like when we're looking at a source, like someone giving an industry talk who works at a company, or like biographer who chose to dedicate, you know, two years of our life to write this book after working at news week and covering the sector forever, is like trying to mentally account for and discount from whatever bias and perspective they're coming in with to create whatever the source material is that we're using to them. Incorporate into our version of here's how this thing happened, which is that's like I think it's the hardest part about what we do. And i'm curious what if you ever think about that? I think about .

all the time because people like, oh like survivor as our vision history. This is like, here's the problem. We humans don't see things as they are.

We see them as we are. So like, we could have this super long conversation. Al tree, three of us right now then going to the room write down you what just occurred. Every single versions is going to be different because it's view that to all of our experience, we think the words we use.

And so what i'm looking as like when i'm reading about sam walton, right, is just like, uh, the the story we both had on all the podcast because I don bunch our pocket on some two or the guys pissed office that I drive the story of storing this like mountain roads taking forever. So he buys the plane and he realizes like all this, some massive advantage because i'm doing something my competitors aren't right. I'm flying over.

And you guys mentioned to two, which I thought was and then he just land. Is that who wants that? Let me land. And and then he know by action. So he's like, were going negotiated now I want to buy IT from you and so my point is, is like, okay, yes, that most likely occurred. But what is the idea behind that is you can haven't advantaged by doing something your competence are not doing right.

And is this has to together you we you just said is like all learn from somebody is when we're reading these books and listen these arcs like what's the idea I can use in my life? We're not building the next one mart. There's no way we read that.

We could tell did this actually happened right? Hi, I don't know, but i'm looking for the ideas behind IT not all I can. I'm going to verify for every single warning .

this but and IT the the truth is always IT is always the case that the a clean narrative is grafted onto effect pattern and it's like, okay, well, what I care about is the lessons I can learn from the clean narrative, not does the fact pattern. If if you had all the facts and totality did IT necessarily mean that IT this was premeditated, it's like, whether was premeditated or not, you know the facts, the facts. And like, maybe I can implicated a different for what we do.

I mean, I think on a quiet more than you, basically you will do multiple episodes of different books on the same people.

And boy.

your format is a narrative wave. So like you.

we're you in the moon a little bit more in this respect like your format lends itself to. So everyone is is listening like founders is more about, hey, I just read this book and I want to tell you what I learned from this book and always biography. And like sometimes you'll do five different biography on Edward and like if acquire was going to do polar, we would polo de the episode polite. Maybe we would be like polo ID part one and part two or like maybe at some point we have like someone on to like talk about the story, you know, in addition to our one economically epo de, but like, we would be shooting the moon and like, let's make sure that we get the polar story as right as I was. Like, how do we find the correct average of all of the other stories to create the economically version IT .

wasn't inflecting to quote bill girly two times early so far but um that fantastic c uh talky .

gay which is to me is the .

best talk for entrepreneurs or s on youtube told running down a dream how to survive and thrive in the country and he says is like listen in the age of the internet that you have to be the smartest right charly monger after talk home I whatever mind I do us I don't have that and i'm called that like I could not imagine trying to compete against a guy years ago he would destroy me right he's got a super mind that I don't have but what bills says is like you, like you don't have to be smart first but you collect more the most information any any holds you to high stand in that talk builds like listen in the age of the internet all the inflation you always had need right is right to think your tips have no excuse not to do this.

And so he gives the example of if you you you want to be a domain expert in whatever you doing, like within two years of intense study, if you're doing that, you're focused on this, like you're gonna to the like, you know more than maybe anybody else. And so that's my whole thing was like when you talk to you've never met a founder and entrepreneurs, kind of entrepreneurs. So of course, the reason why so many of them listen to both of our shows, right? It's because they're building machines where they believed you can turn knowledge into profit, right?

I, I, I become close friends with the guy to the podcast is Young kid and kid is not kid at a lot Younger night. And he's like twenty nine, eight years old. And we were on the phone the of the day because he had a very serious offer for company humans, like ninety five percent of, and we were one hundred, right? Once you saying no to IT but the point is like when you talk to him um you know he's listen all the episodes read like sixty the books he'll text me a picture of like you want you to of the book and like read that like is o from this episode said, oh, why what if he finds one idea in a book, one idea in a podcast and IT gives a ten percent improvement on his company is a ten thousand other idea yeah we .

are talking about this earlier this dinner that you you have a sounding charlie is just like a very curious city machine. But we know there there's lots of folks that have regular dinner. Yeah and have groups of people, often geographically dispersed.

Why did they do IT? Why has IT worth their time, their money, their effort? If they get one idea, the leverage that .

they can get on that, tell the stories like, yeah, I made four hundred million dollars from reading parents for years. I quantify that because he does so he goes, I read this isn't something he said dinner that firms say publicly. He's like, I read parents every all the time for the years, I found one idea that can act on.

I made fifty million dollars on that deal, and then I took that fifty million and I gave IT to lu. Is that yeah, I give that you that thirty million to leleu. And leleu turned into a four hundred million dollars.

That's how I made four hundred million dollars from reading parents. wow. And listen, i'm not.

This is a nose where I feel like every like, oh, this time is different. This is new as a human nature has never changed. IT will never change.

This time is not different. You're just enjoy. The difference is there if you don't study the history the people came for you, you just ignore and making mistakes that people resolve. The past learning ministry .

of former leverage his billions of billions .

to earn up billions of billion of years of, collectively human history. You know, this guy spent seventy years. There are thousands of them, and like same ones book how many how many people spent fifty years in one industry and retail industry. And he is still the down most important. And then you could read IT in a week, and then you could listen to acquired episode, can listen to David episodes on.

And okay, that's good decision to that. So the question is that do you have ninety percent of sam wisdom or do you have point one percent of sams wisdom after there's no way .

you have ninety percent because like the time, right the instincts .

I would just revealing.

uh, Peter tiles talk at, uh, why completest competitions for losers yeah and he goes one thing that we do in icon, one thing we do in silicon valley is we overvalue growth rates and undervalue their ability. And he's like that doesn't make sense for a technology company because all your profits, the vast majority of profits are twenty years in the future. And if you're trying to optimize for growth and that that over optimization can cause your company got a business you're never going to collect that you optimize for their ability first, dummy like that to me, like my he said, right yeah so you're gonna get you know one percent.

probably maybe five, but that's still enormous leverage because .

he read IT in five .

hours and he took .

fifty years like I am going to start this park like it's crazy, right? What you do, you you talk to a microphone .

yourself every week .

yeah my friend I Y I I definitely for .

sure and that got me like we can talk about um did you read jeff last shah letter before the the best line he has is that the only like differentiation is survival. And so they think about that like how horis they say, let's say, somebody says, tom, I love David, joe, and i'm going to do the exact same thing. They can jump in and try to do that, right? But you have six years of experience, six hundred .

hours to counter position and or address a different audience or if.

by the way, they definitely should. Every time I talk to somebody who wants to, I, I without my always like you absolutely to do this. yeah. And you will, even if you never succeed in terms of any like numerical successful ly, you will succeed because you are learning leg.

So being a nut job and completely crazy is I think makes you harder to compete with. And it's also working goal of the mapper, but it's impossible not to be that. Like think about how seat you guys are in the same information that I am, where he always says, how will you're the some of the first, your five friends, whatever, right? What's like? Just like what you give some of your pockets, you listen to you and the books you read.

And so what are five friends, including your pay, social relationships?

And so now what happens is, like you mentioned, do you like really read like one book about them? You will go crazy. And so what happens is, when i'm really interested in somebody, I will, I listen to build, I just take advice, people, or smiling.

Bill said, go collect everybody. Everything can OK good. I'll do that. This is where this simple ideas. And so i'll find body this interesting.

I read everything about him, and so which I I have like a little charly monger on my shoulder. I have a little Steve jobs, a lot of england, a little David o gravy S A ladder, cocoa. Now all these people that have been heroes of mine, James dean.

And so now i'm presented with the situations like what would they do? And you have if you read and spend as or everything that out there about these people, like you'll have an idea like how they would respond. Did you guys ever read ten kosan, this book? Create a selection about this shocking.

He worked on the original human interface for the iphone.

He said he made the the keyboard for when I was still at people, or yeah, a keyboard. He makes a far before the iphone. He is an excEllent book that I read like three times called creative election.

Think the the how apple design products and golden major Steve jobs might be the subtitle, but he talked about that. Where is he demo to leave, right? And you're not going to describe IT to him. You're gona demo and you're gona hand IT to him.

And so they iterate, you guys, we know this, they iterate to a series of demos and it's be on Steve s taste like he is not all, let's talk about this, not do this, do this, that and so can has a great line in a book where he's like steam for Steve is like asking questions to the oracle delphi, except the oracle delphi would like respond with a ridal and he said, no, not. Steve was unbelievably like Crystal clear. You understood him.

I have every single person ever study. Steve jobs is by for the clear thinker I have ever come across. I just gifted at that.

Charlie is like the oracle and it's Crystal clear you are not like you are going to understand what he's the idea he's trying to get into your brain for sure. But my point being is like all of the people that we study, they don't denigrate the past. They Steve jobs, a reason.

So obsess everyone. I read in a barry when Steve was like, in china, evin land's and like seventies, he goes and meet evin land and he goes visiting. Edwin was like vision, a shrine. He like, he is my hero. More people should try to be like that. And then you guys made the point in that, you know, jeff faces took a lot of ideas from sam, who took a bunch of ideas from SONY too, Steve and jeff, so that you will always find these people were like, oh, I thought this was a Steve jobs idea.

No idea. We land idea.

Like when we used to watch the presentations S T would give where is like over building at the intersection of technology. Bel arts, he put put up on screen, really said that exact work. But that's the points you're never going to find any way get to the top of the profession with doing the work, like studying the people that came before them and learning from them.

admiring them. This is a good, like sort of personal, vivid. And so i've never asked you in all the hours we spent, this crazy, this french time we met in person.

Yeah, like we spent hours and hours and hours. Zum, uh, how did you like decide that this is what you we're going to do with your time on this planet? And like, how did .

what LED to this? Okay, so I, you know, germany, our beautiful and journey from forming of tiny, I just spent like a bunch of hours with him. He was in town in one sentence.

He, like, he cycle, analyzed me Better, and whales ever has. He goes, you didn't have any mentors growing up. So you like, you have then you took a to like this extreme. He said much more elements than I am, but he's like you don't have to so I view your career like the psychopathic uh, search for like mentors. I can help you you know.

So like answer questions like I don't want to go into too much detail here, but like i've only had one habit my whole life and that was reading I was reading for as long as I can remember. My mom passed away from breast cancer a couple years ago and SHE, we didn't have like a lot of money like long story, but I was the first rate college. But like high school in my family, I came from a family size, a family like no education, a lot of like just bad habits.

So identify a lot what early mother says, because he essentially absorb about behavior and then try to do the opposite right? So I was just let me know this problem was just up in canada um actually an event Andrew workers son was holding for much, much Better me shame paris from the knowledge project and and foreign SHE was up there then wisdom from how to take over the world and we were doing this panel together and shames the moderator and we don't know we're going to talk about beforehand and so shame as the questions like, oh what what did you learn most from your upbringing or something like that right? And I go I learned not to do cocaine into graduate high school like so that kind of thing, right? And so there's just a bunch of anti models.

I thought about this, as was walking through the tender line this morning, is a party scope. And I was like, I should have do this, walk with my daughter as the best. Like, hey, this way you want to. Drugs like this is the perfect example of, like, you would vote, you observe bad behavior, and then you do the opposite. So long or short, i've always been accessory ing like one of the best things White my mom ever did was even if we could have money for books, SHE would take me the book store and just sit there like, you know, book stores are so cool because they did you read, no one concerns OK. You can read for an hour like you got to get out here, you know, and just reading, reading.

reading. Is there anybody who like introduced you have reading a books so you just like, there is just something yeah but no.

she's that SHE isn't a big reader. The only thing SHE read was the bible. There was no books in the house when .

I was Young ger, ever. So you be like, I can. The big story.

I can answer that all I can say is like, my wife knows, has known me for fifteen years and hurting, but SHE says, is SHE like, likes my family and gets wrong with them. But he goes, how did that come from that?

I like. Sounds like you the classics like you're the one who made IT out story .

sam hinky are our mutual friend, actually gave me the way to think about this and it's called the founder of your family, right? And it's the person that like, and I used to call them, and that was a terrible name, but generational inflection points because you'd read this in the biography where you have a generation of a generation of just not good things happening. And then one person just says, IT stops.

Now that's A R rockfeller.

I always think the same problem and the guy that did seems, yeah and he's in canada growing up on, but like they were, so their parents had lost so much money, they think they were jewish and had a little escape from persecution of russia. I came member where they came from, but they go they have to start all over and they're in canada like there's no heating and like they're freezing and like, so he has a like psychopathic drive to change, but you stay with you forever. So like once builds massive company and literally changes the detroit cor of all of his uh descendants and as his daughters in adult.

And he tells the stories in the book where sam is sitting there in like a mansion by a next fire like shivering, thinking about how embarrassing IT was to have to go to school with the clothing, is that guys never gonna back to that. And he never, never loses IT. So I just always been a reader as the only thing ever, like the only one unbroken habit I always had.

And so I just had this idea, like I I was assess of podcast forever. I was successes with audio before, was such thing as a podcast. I would listen to talk radio when I was a kid that time.

You know, it's it's not like there's not on demand anything you would listen. Sport, socks, radio, politics, socrates, O I S embarrass. There was like, this woman that you to beyon and night people writing, like, advice for love, their love life. And I listen to that, just the idea like this, all information.

Man, I used to listen to coast to coasts. A M with art bell. Were you listen to this like it's when all the other radio programing sort of expires and the new enter the like one in the morning A M radio stuff and IT was like, you know, aliens s and like times of the stuff but I was like, if you listen, like you the cab's gay mans. I'm from clive on and so like then you listen to like the sports post game and then he goes into like the politics hour and if you still can't fall asleep then you're like aliens and it's like four hours of that stuff .

I do have radio on your bedroom.

Yeah, yeah. I be able. I don't. I imagine my parents play him.

Turned IT off. Like, would leave on. I fell asleep now and then.

remember. Like, I remember. So you have the job from that. The A M. Radio stations then start streaming to into your browse your internet IT doesn't on demand. So if you're not losing at three o clock twelve like you, miss IT.

And then once I saw this, what my cubans company was.

he was was like broadcasting audio for sports games.

So I think I don't actually know.

It's just come yeah yeah and he was .

competitive with real player, which also wasn't uh, on demand that was just streamed radio.

Now the first on demand was the first time I saw us like this is insane. Like exception for people that that are like, you know learning machines using Charles, where is like I can go to even today, like idea. You can go to any party supplier typing what you learn about. And then you can hear somebody that you should spend there hundreds of hours teaching you about the stuff.

You can also find the lecture al high quality content more easily. Now because all content, because there were a limited number of channels and a limited number of times slots, everything had to be produced for the lowest common denominator. And now you can open your niche and find the highest quality content in that niche. And like the only way to do that before was books like there wasn't an audio way to there wasn't content, there wasn't any audio content broadly available.

Vera million authors out there, several million pod casters.

But you made A I think you are getting so good points because the business model didn't support that. And so now and there was no distribution. Yeah now with podcasting, it's like you guys you know i'm sure I think like fit.

I don't ever look at analysts, but I think glasses look like fifty percent of our everywhere. And so I was doing the early years of founders. I was just I remember I will change because I couldn't figure out on the business model.

So you would do like a pilot at that time. Remember when I first started, you went through a bunch of business? yes. So when I first started, they're like, hey um you contact like the few podcast advertising networks they were back then because you guys started to show two thousand sixteen, right 4 okay。 So I started two thousand sixteen and you contact yeah we can do ads for show uh you know you need like twenty five thousand downloads and episode and at the time, like I never get that right like obviously sky rocket pass that but that's impossible to think as many people are in a basketball.

Rena h, when you start visualizing the audience, it's like o two and half nfl cdm show up for every required episode like that's an insane, yes.

But do you guys think so? You guys .

think only in in a adding to the pressure in a good way. It's a good motivator.

I never think about IT really. You know, I think about IT how my show set up is why say you and I I like.

I like that you treat .

the audience says like the person. You, it's one person, so like one. And i've done this very like I funny. Member two, one of my friends that we were met up one day and I like and I think i'm going to try to make like a business around the fact I read so much and he's like and they call me like a year like six month ago. A year ago is like I can you do that? I thought you were this, I think of her, but I just picture him when I started is like, oh h the whole idea behind the show was like, what if you've got to meet up one a week with your friend that reads and he just tells you the stuff.

he, that, the interesting ideas. So I trank him to do that guest with you, or somebody just like the ominous.

So one, one thing we don't have, like a bunch of prepared, but one thing we talked about, okay, y, why don't we talk about who is your influence on what you do, what you do? And so I feel the greatest uh, power castle of all time is the ankle in from harker history. That's like my I think he's like, I can't believe what I guy does, right?

You and him are like the only successful uh monogue pod casters like I think it's the hardest thing to do in this medium and I can't I mean, there's everyone else either has a guest .

on or cohoes yeah um well there's another guy was um that so I took them home. I like I was listened all for years. You talk about phone to sleep.

I did that too, but I fell to down comment so i'd over and over and over again to now I listen to like I it's like it's like have love in yeah like go go with this that time but there was another one ah that a friend and I put me on to there's this community and bilberry he does the monday morning podcast he used to every monday and now he does I think monday thirty six right? He is one of the first protesters when he was podcasting his his first services at the time. He would do that.

He would call into a number and record, right? And then that there was a service that would transform that recording from your phone into A N P. Three that you .

can publish and put on your ipad before.

like anything.

And so wild how things that I know we're here now in this recording set up that we have here, you know, with thousands dollars a year. And yeah, we are. I remember when we first started, I don't think you let me do this, but I was like, why don't we just talk at the computer and like.

set up quick time when I listen back to our first three episodes, pixar, and i'm like, that sounds like we were just talking to the computer. basic.

That's when people like I have a lot of psychos that I started a number one. I go about like, like.

please don't. Yes, if.

I I I used .

to um because I wait at least .

by the time you get to one, you would like you you you're a fan but if you if you start IT when you like these guys get up yeah but like that is almost like there's great pleasure in hearing something that you think is excEllent and fully baked and like a especially when it's been long running. You're like, oh, this has always been a maculate and perfect and then you get to go see some of that early work and you're like.

so you're so you you want the only I get I .

can see where the magic was even though they didn't know yet like it's like the .

room the books if you're reading though, like sam walton, when you tell a story where his his landor's crews them over and he goes, he goes, i'm not whipped I I found I found the store of I do IT again, right? And it's like, yes, walmart is a few success. You guys me the point that there was a great point where like you never going to think twenty five years in the future when there's watermelons and donkey crap on the ground and this can be the Richard fee in the world.

right if you and the most standardized form .

of retail yeah but and so you see like, oh, he, that same guy that became a rich person, the world that he's now family, the Richard family, whatever he's imperfect to just like I am and so that is the only benefit. Listening to early, quiet or early founder is like, oh, you see the improvement, just like in the books.

see what is fun like I like, but like I get to like, see you journey. You know, like, i'm proud you i've been think about that i'm thinking about ahead of our conversation here. I used to say all the time, people like I go back.

I listened to their early episodes like, no, don't. It's so embarrassing. I actually think like we always want to be embarrassed by our last episode. We've just constantly get like every episode like we try and .

t picturing the stadium.

And that's why I think about the stadium. I think about the pressure of lake. We got to do Better next time then we did this time.

And it's not just filled with lake you seats and fl fans. It's filled with like hundreds of thousands of the smartest people that and this gets to like the psyche, like the deep and security that at least I have of like, I want to impress those people. I want those people to think i'm smart.

And so I have to produce something unbelievably worthwhile of their time. And the minute that I don't, i'm like literally walking out in front ent and fell stadium full of people that I want to impress and like I didn't use to have that pressure. But like once we've found content market fit for required with like people that i've always thought highly of.

that there were a couple years where we kind of drifted there wasn't that pressure to keep in the butter. And then twenty.

yeah yeah I think you're never going .

to be embarrassed to about your your latest episode we're making this is L V M H. You're never going to be embarrass. That was excEllent. And like, I doesn't need you can't keep improving .

ten years and I look back, I think like, yes, that's certainly piso's. I don't know you feel like that like i'm proud of, but I looked that like at the time.

Like so we didn't know that was going to be a IT. We even this it's our number one epo de by a huge margin. Forty thousand more people have listened to that episode than the next highest, which is under com.

I probably could told you actually I was like, David, no one's going to list amazon every early knows the story, which was super wrong. I either thought like no one will listen to this one, or like this will be our most successful episode with L V M H. Even after we recorded IT, I was like, or after we edited IT because we had like edited a lot of stuff. I was like this much good, but it's not best ever.

I think. And I heard from a ton of other people how much like like it's like .

it's position there's a bunch of stuff that we could done Better a lunch.

I. This is a tool. Take you Better. This is a two footage. No, we've even try to get Better like I was like, no, I haven't ad that books in two years. Is some episode IT lichen ces, it's a tool for me.

As I know it's good for the people, right and so is like and then i'll listen to him like oh forgot that I need to keep that idea my mind but I hear myself like hope you said that in two paragraphs. Could one paragraph cut that part? That doesn't make sense. And so ah I understand the improvement and is your qualities are super high, like IT can increase and get Better, don't want be wrong, but like you're never going to be embarrassed. You're just like I could provide do a twenty percent twenty percent Better but still excEllent from that the the like .

the level of your at so the way that we edit is our editor takes the first past and he's unbelievably good and we're so lucky to have him and then he sends us a rough cut. I upload to descript and then we listen like and read while we're listening, word for word, sense for sense, and try to cut every unnecessary sense. And we end up point out twenty years minutes of just full.

It's just like, okay, we could have been tighter in that point. Is there a way to get tighter in IT without rerecording IT? And I think that has dramatically contributed episode quality because by the time we ship IT, neither of us feel their extremist senses. okay. Listeners, now is a great time to tell you about long time friend of the show service now.

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So I don't know something like that.

Like you're still one man shell, right?

I do every no one touches anything.

So like everything nuts definition .

al question but I also think like we should disapprove CT point to like how we became friends and why like i'm putting this out on my feet and no one, no one you were going to be the first non David and voices that ever heard on founders and only would agree to do IT and only going to do with you guys is because like this goes back to like why I want to be surrounded with.

First of all, people have like interest, super more people, but also people have like positive something thinking, right? Patrick ency has a gigantic successful show. Uh, if I like the best, he's got classes. Pocket network is found called positive sum, and that's how he acts. I joined his network.

This is like months later um and they are like, hey like I know we have editors whatever like he has like this empire over there and resources like what do you want? And I was like I just wanted to amplify my audience and then connect me with first, first three advertisers because, like, I think acquired is a luxury podcast and maybe not lux premium. We ve got to go over the decision.

There matter. But like, we're know this is like we were trying to set the bar here. But anyways, he's a hate. You want editors, you want any this is off, as you know, I don't want no one gets to touch my stuff.

People think all like, does did they tell you what books to read? And like, no petrock like my show and he's just like, why would I tell you like just whatever you're doing just do IT to more people now um and so the generation not know like I pick the books I recorded on my edit. I'm still one person show.

I don't know without a patent forever but I do think the fact that I just like spend so much time with the material gets IT in my brain. But the reason that, uh, like, I wanted talk about the role you guys played in that where we are going to zoo m and for like the background here is like, you know, we had known of each other I talked to about a long time ago. He was run this prior pipe cases like years ago. And so anyways, we're like there.

I also want to think back like all the dead ends that we went, like we went down the .

total time you .

went in.

oh my god, that that happened and we .

were like.

no one wants to hear these like stories of like extreme capitalism, like we're like the x games of capitalism and and like, this is a moment. We're like capitalism. Everyone is hurting zero is the end like this.

Isn't that the stock market trough to where you're just like, well, like you all businesses are going to go wonder every no one's ever going have jobs again, this is is scary and so we are like, well, like what story should we tell? How about that are adapting to make IT through this tough time? Until, like show how serious we were about that, we change the name of the show.

IT was like our three least listen to episodes covering a pretty amazing stories. But we just brand IT wrong. Like careless is like the most interesting restaurant story you could ever .

hear .

about the only time we've done about apt IT. So there's no way to do IT like lower.

rather do. Do you want to know the first name of founders? Or do you know, like in your R S S, V, you can change the name, right? We can change the link. Like still say, so you look at IT for mine and its auto telic. The worst name, auto telic.

comes from the .

book slow A U T O T E L I C. maybe. I don't know. I can't spell for I can't spell pronounced. I have no grammar or so.

I like you read so much.

I was the guy. Yes, it's IT is an activity that you do for the sake of itself going back your questions like why? Like I just love to read.

I'm going to do this if no lessons like that. I know when to win because it's like people, oh, would you do IT for free? Like, no, I paid to do this like.

like a long time, a time like I litter said.

i'm to quit and I I have the savings. I have a wife and a baby and a daughter support. I have a son away for dr.

And son. And I was like, I bet you I just put trust myself. This is like i'm going to if I focus on this seventy week, I figure out the business model.

I I don't think I will get rich from IT, but I at least pay my bills right. And so like every month I go less money there. And like, so I paid to do IT.

So the idea we're like, uh, you know, again, people I think see jobs just like the older he said something like the older gets, the more he realizes why people do things matters and so he's always asking these questions like which says, like how do you know that you found what you love to do and people are like, oh because like I wouldn't sell my company is like, okay, there's another level. It's like how much would you've had to pay Steve jobs to stop working an apple? The answer is he wouldn't take all the money in the world.

How how much would you have to change? People try.

I think, what like the idea is like he's not doing you for money. He's in a different game. He's doing you for the sake of itself.

And so I went to bunch of different names, histories greatest. Man, histories greatest. Like history always, there was terrible names. And I just started narrowing IT more, more and more to like founders. And I was like, oh, that's perfect.

There is you. You come from the tech world. This was in .

content. A the the idea I had known about, like warn, buffer, elon mosque of other people. And I remember you had came in rose and you show long time. So you guys remember his if you not .

that long ago, maybe the year you're in a half.

Yeah, yeah. It's just time flies.

IT was post. He was he, he was he was pretty much already fully web three by the time we so do .

you guys member foundation? Yeah like one of the first high quality you like imagine he would have stuck with that shell, you know. I mean.

all right, it's like the only episodes that ever came out. I was like, here's me interviewing in the musk. Here's me in interviewing samen. Here's me like these people.

And also before they became like, I had the model, had the model, that was the only thing he was just about to release the tory, because I watched, I watch all time they were in the factory building the model. So I don't know if you could buy IT, but I was like coming or whatever, and even looks way Younger and like. And then in two thousand and fifteen, ten fares, I was a big friend of his podcast I read, like for a work week.

Remember the way .

before our body change.

my life did IT with a slow b sb. Dii the diet cold like. And the final thing is like, it's like this whole called punch thing. That's like becoming a thing. Now I like, was nobody like reading ten fairs and twenty eleven like I was 东西 啊 yeah what what .

yeah actually that that .

made me think on the inter of the story because I think it's really important。 You like, oh, is any going to list like you was going? Listen, amazon episodes already know IT. And so this is something that like I most .

successful are you a yeah because this .

is so key that people don't understand. It's like you're not advertising to standing on my advertising sing to moving parade. And so like I will literally get on calls with like media company founders I are like.

Selling ads are like building companies sound like, oh yeah, you must have read all the way. Like, but and I was like, these are not new lessons. Like if, if and again, this comes from the humility to realize more about oit smarter than me. So if that dude in his shirt le letters is saying, uh, David over is a genius, i'm like, waited to IT this due to how many businesses has warned of IT looked at at that point, how many founders and IT managers says he looked when he's like this dues a genus this is not rocket science guys just going like the search David og van amazon five books .

good David your best choice like um that I I went .

explain the the standing army versus .

so you're not advertising to uh sitting .

on your advertising to moving pre but what happens is like even when you put on the scope episode, right, we went me in David on a high and stanford and I was like, do you have this crazy bad catalogue every single day you have more people following your pakistan than you had the day before? I was like and because I knew this because of a subscription podcast, right?

Recount briefly year business .

model journey. So I know i'll give you the shorter break down because, like I went through so many, even I just put IT a hard pay. Well, listen, the first thirty minutes you want listen all of them um do you pay right? And I converted.

This is when we had chat you you and IT because there's been .

times like this one were like, what the hell are you doing? But there's been other times where you come to us and you like, you know how good your seca episodes were and like the fact that you four times the audience that you have now, and none of the seventy five percent those people have ever .

heard the zoia episode, what are you doing? And so you guys, we have this hike. This could be idea member, not my idea.

I don't. Everything has already been done, guys. Just i'm speaking to the people living you. You always always like they already done. Just go see hey, that first of smart he learned from forty year career like you're not going pick up an idea. You can use the sound.

So I told I do daily, I was thinking about this. There are some cases where it's it's not true. But I think most truly like iconic world changing businesses and founders, they build, they stand on the shoulder of giants. But they have one or multiple things that is novel that they up.

It's the combine of these ideas, like sam walton taking sole Prices ideas and and I K what about you guys are kind of ignoring these like four thousand percent communities and pretty sure like the theses Young romer, will they just dry for a dissension just to save money, right? The answer is yes, five years.

But like that isn't yes .

exactly. It's a the whole thing.

It's combining like one big novel idea with a bunch of other things that .

you guys come to give all grees idea by republishing your school podcast. And then you text me like, oh my god, like the download are crazy. And because the vast majority podcasting to a standing army, your podcasting to a moving parade.

And so I had known this because through my experimenting, I would take an old that had done, uh, do a preview, throw IT up and you'd get conversions every time because he was new to them. And that was like, so og vy, I credit aggravated with that idea. That's an a he got from cloud hopkins and Albert later, who were building advertising businesses .

fifty years for him, is this scientific advertising? yeah. Found.

found episode? yeah. His excEllent. That book, scientific artizans.

So, like eight or ten million copies, they kept IT in Albert lasker. So claude hopkins work for our office already. I thought that book was so good. He stored in a vote. He would he like.

he built because he was like the secrets of the industry, right? Like, don't publish this because we don't want this getting out.

I ve learned that because in org be an advertising at the very end of the book. Davids, I hear these are six giants airline from so like, okay, well then i'm going to google search choose like going to do the book and again so then he's like, oh, alexa made more money than anybody than anybody else. The history of the advertising business like hold up what how .

also noticed name yeah and so .

you realized like he the book is is the state at the chicago was so big at forty four time employees and like like what you're talking about like that make these worries make sense of my mind that doesn't make any sense of me. So you read about askar and then he tells you about cloud hot gains. This I get. The information was so good that, like I started that in my voice twenty years. And then once he sold his a advertising, he gave away like a token hundred thousand and to the people working there and then they released IT and cause when not on his own and everything else.

So these are not like OK see do the thirty minutes hard cut off we so one satisfying it's .

like i'm going to listen to thirty minutes of this episode and then like i'd have have to get someone .

ask me to pay for the the conversion .

rates were higher, but you guys said this is where is where that you were very helpful, like David, first of all. And you guys are nice if this is another language you use, you're like, you idiot. Like every two guys are so nice.

It's like, do you're doing your wrong? Listen for every one person. And he was been this. This is for every one person that would buy a podcast, a thousand or hundred.

that would listen to him for free like.

just it's about a hundred yeah, I even more than that. no. And so then you guys would show me, like, you open the commons.

You're like this. These are downloads. This is who we advertise with. This is what we charge advertising. You just like.

well, the other the other really key inside is, uh, so after spending much of time with originally Kimberly and glow, which all the libin and still what powers the acquired lp program, uh, an interesting learning is most podcast should generate about fifty percent of revenue from ization some kind of membership program or pay walling their feed um and about half from advertising and and IT should the mass and sort of workout where that can be the case for the type of podcast that we are whereever you have lots of founders and C E O and hedged fund managers and the source people, you you could never ask someone to pay you in membership what they are worth to the most valuable advertiser for that slot. And so the way it's what that works out is like you're massively hamstring your motivation potential if you make IT membership only because you'd have to be like, uh, yes, please pay two to five thousand dollars a year in order to get access to this private thing versus if you were to take that same piece of content and open up to advertisers.

You made the the good point earlier, and we can elaborate on that. Why you're so psychotic about this sentences needs to get out of here like these two sentences, remove IT. Because if you could factor in the average hours rate of the people in your audience, IT is unbelievable.

So even think if you make what a million dollars here you we know people are, we see in other make a lot more than but I think million dollars, five hundred box hours, something I don't know math person but like so you're asking if they do on an our long packets founders like that's five hundred doors like you cannot wait these people's times I never answer your question when you're like, hey, how do you guys think about this? Do reeded are you cut them out? I use the scrip as well.

Actually think the way out and founders is obviously to listen to and listening, reading like the super power of podcast is you can list to IT when you're doing something else, but when you're edited. But I think I am going to put all my, all my podcast up on youtube. Not I don't have any video, but I think when the news descript, so there is some people have success just putting up the audio and a uh like a static picture and you can listen to IT on youtube. But I also think I i'm going to do that. I have this and that's kind of call if you want you I don't .

have did not find success doing that. Like this episode will be the first episode this year that's on youtube because we basically said if there's not interesting video, then it's not a video podcast and you can go find .

IT in a podcast player. I i'm using a just for search and I was used yes, i'm never I don't think i'm never gonna video anything because it's just like it's much simpler to do. Little i'm thinking like i'm going to up to the M P. Three to youtube like i'm not making a video just because IT is they're eventually gonna have they're not stupid.

They are eventually going to like the pocket player inside a youtube like did you they released this like forty page document I read on the their podcast goals a youtube I said, you guys, are you guys so right now I have youtube premium so you can listen to them in the background yeah A R but they need to have pcs functionality still like video like um the the way I do that is like, yes, i'm very aware that um who's listening i'm not ever going to waste a lot of time. And what I found with the more practice I have for the podcast is i'm able to edit on the fly like I don't have a script, right? So like i'll go through the book I highlight, then write down whatever pushed my mind.

I don't think like just am I first of the highlights i'm excited about that that's interesting. Highlight just golf instinct, right? And then write down like something that oh, that's like this or that may be think of this and I just write that down right then. I'll reread all these highlights the night before.

Record a second this in physical you, but you putting your notes in the right.

That happens after k ens, after the fifth time. Every single book I do, I think I read the highlights five times and the fifth time is me actually taking pictures of the physical book and putting in a read while. So jeff bay, I think about this um i'm also slide obsess with jeff bases .

and sly obsess with A A lot of founders.

That's why were like you're like we're sitting in chairs, like do i'm going to be fork .

and we are of the angles before.

Because you want to love .

like we got of David here hear a little .

IT do you have if you ever watch the old jeff basis interviews when he like first arted amazon .

that field outside the conference?

Yes, I think this someone he's like sitting that you see grasping, I don't know if so what he like leaning forward, he like going to be the most .

customer. But really like that.

do the cycle. But jeff say something that, yes, but jeff say something in invent, in wander, which is an excEllent book, because it's all of his shirt .

letter and and all of his .

translate speeches. And he goes, do you really want to to live in a world are to pete against body that's that's as good as you like I certainly certainly when that's what his he states and he's like his if you read, share, hollies and listen talk is like he's cutting looking for unfair vantis still.

And I think part of the fact that I have now over twenty thousand highlights from hundreds of books, I still like fifty or sixty or may be eighty books to him put in there yet that are in my library. So like that, my revise account is an unfair vantage because anytime somebody's talking, it's like I can add something. I searched for that term and IT pulls up and like, oh, and then I see my highlight and I see my no IT takes so long, like so long to do that, but it's worth the .

extra fired and I IT into your process of making that.

because I really know, I know. I see this before. I remember IT type that term.

And IT pulls up every single instance. The advantage that I have with me all the time. And what what i'll do is like whenever i'm like waiting for uber today, right?

H just pull up read wise. And I read wise has the highlights feed and I show you guys know what IT looks like. IT looks a lot like a twitter feed, right?

Completely random. So i'm not choosing this. And instead of me reading twitter all day, which is not a good use of for your time, it's this highly from the dodged brothers.

Uh, I have read that book. You know, I was like, absolute prime one fifteen Billy, who is the founder G M. A. Sam coat. And so are these .

ones that other people like a .

lot now therefore, it's a prince.

So you've got 那个 is healthy .

witter there on your phones is like how many times a day， like how often you just pull a bread way .

and almost every day. And if i'm not doing on revise or go to like my bookshelves, so what will happen is um you can pull a book off my shelf and I thinking about this like my kids wrong after i'm gone. My kids can like what was my dad into you know they can go back and see oh, when he was thirty five or thirty eight, this is the pocket, he may go find book and the the pool of the show that, oh, this is the line he that was interesting on, wow, you see dad and writing here and like, so I use this for myself where I can pick up a book and read read read IT in thirty minutes by remy highlights and notes and now i'm like it's back in back in front um and then what happens is like you can do this anytime like people oh, i'm run away for lunch like i'll just do this or all answer dms or all always have stuff to do with me but I use that as a former practice the reason I said this is like sounds stupid people think it's maybe maybe they think it's silly or know but I read this book, a type of twelve of founders called ichael Jordan, the life at a six hundred page biography.

And in that work you just link this encyclopedia knowledge, two of the numbers of epodes. So impressed .

don't it's only because I references at all time. So when if you look up something over over again, it's repetition. Everything in life is repetition. Stay multiple career is repetition. You know, like it's like I just think you're trying this is what I asked charlie like.

And one of the most interesting things, he said he like one of the best things that have a happened, because I got rich later in life. He saw what how difficult IT like he was talking about. Like, imagine you being like big, super famous retina, like twenty one or twenty five.

And how disorienting he was, a full grown man. Fe, yeah, if I not yeah yeah but like he had all like, you know, full life experience. And therefore also the the main problem that happens is people don't know.

They're like, I was the sound of a poor man. Now i'm rich and my kids live in unbelievable amount of wealth privilege. How do I do with that? That comes up in the books for hundreds of years.

The answer is, no one who knows, right? And so which charity though the benefit is he didn't have a famous last name or a lot of wealth. His kids were like grown, right? They won't have to do with that when you're five or seven and or ten. He also gave me some advice that was facing.

you do that like you gotta pay the bill eventually. They like his Green kids, have to.

well, so how do you do? IT is sorry, like he's multiple .

er .

like doesn't a five generation aire. He's like people like us talk for hours about him. He's like a celebrity.

So I am just read this fantastic book. I like reading obscure books because go back to what s different survival. So i'll find weird books, I for books for you guys, so I could not find any. I will order them and bring them as you, because I always bring books. And I was really, we went to three different boosters.

I like.

but now we IT like, bless samon his patients with me and like, drove me all a mental park in polo auto yesterday, going to bookstore. Like, I was little .

for you that you .

had specific, but I like going to be. And the interpretation of you guys in my mind. And I I just know if this book is good for that person, like the hand flagger book.

I knew good for your mother because of what he said. So I don't know what's onna happen now. I do have two books picked out for you guys, which I I knew, but their big newer books.

But anyways, but that sounds like a great day driver I was say i'm pinking and yeah go to book stories like Better the .

painters like beauty so yeah and like .

you know seems unlikely intelligent and like you got a weird alien brain is always tell them from iterate borch alto ve us now says a sam has a bigger brain I think I think I think I think he said his description of IT um but I like obscure books I read uh this book that very hard to find. Three inter books are called the invisible billion aird's ual ludwig was the richest person in the world and eighties, and no one who he was. He paid public relations firm to keep his name out of the papers.

When your competition yeah so just .

like I don't want to be known and a lot of this was like is like shipping and oil and fining in mining and other stuff. But the author mates the point, the books, that how different a million in a billion is going back to charlie monger, right? Yeah and he goes A A stack of million dollars in a second dollars ills is like 4 inches。 No, uh, uh, billion dollars in the second.

And bills would be three times toward to. And so, like for us, I can reach like the billions. E million's.

Not same. Gory is a thing. The english language has done us a disservice by naming two things that are a thousand times different very similar words that sounds similar yeah so they're not similar .

at all was a lot of people are asking and I think about all the wealthy people that that charlie talks to um and they are like, okay, what do I do with like this wealth with my kids and is like you know is if you give your kids about your money is going to motivate course it's going to so he's like but he's like, no it's like again, like this should be obviously you so he says I don't try to steer his kids or grandkids into what they should do for living which is charlie mongers one of his best piece of ice that I took to hard as I follow your natural drift yeah like how I pick books.

There's been like fifteen or twenty that very completely or half and is like, I like this thing up. I go to my bookshelf and I have like twenty eight hundred hundred boks. I reit most come from the audience. And I like, what am I most excited .

to learn more? Less we pick. We have a little bit more planning because now like this such lonely times but just like what's interesting that .

right hundred percent 就 he's like， don't try to steer them too much and he's like he definitely feels that there some of them are going to be less motivates because they are born rich. But he said this was the most surprising thing. But he goes, you have to give the money anyways. Are they gona hate for? And I was like, that's like, because my year before this, i've heard so many like family dnestr stories.

And I am not saying i'm .

I know they did and IT ruin them like you guys, you guys haven't done an episode de .

common test. T, C, I. And that that will happen this year first.

So you know why that was one of the books that was recommended the most. Like you got, you have the book is awesome.

It's excEllent and .

there's so you know the story I want to tell you where the crazy thing is like i'm always thinking about I didn't understand this before setting dedicating my life setting history right or it's like, oh, well, all the decisions are making now can reverberate through the generations. That's a crazy thing. Or bob magnets, which is the founders of T.

C. I. Um he doesn't have any money is and rural texas wants to do this jumpin this new industry cable, right? Full cowboys like little cowboys. And he doesn't money to his dad, gives him a twenty five hundred alone.

So bob takes a twenty five hundred alone and then say, forty years later, bob dies and he's GTA pass on his money, right? That was created from the company he created to his two kids and he ones of giving them. I think I know the numbers I wanted say, like two hundred million each two sons.

So think about that one decision. I think I talk about the episode. And if I did, it's a big up on my part.

I stopped in that part. I was like, hold on. Think about that. Like what if his dad didn't give the twenty five hundred? Yeah, so his twenty five hundred dollars turns into four hundred .

hundred and s change. You provide three more generations after that of wealth guarantee worth is gone.

Because I think I went up their nose like that was a pretty hard in one generation, but I don't like the point was just like that wasn't good for that because they were not motivated. They get a bunch of drugs and think they went to jail like that kind of stuff. And you see. So much so my thought was like, oh like getting a little bit, but not enough that they don't have to work whatever and charges like they are going to hate you yeah and like.

so just like human nature.

This is my biggest take away from charlie. And I think the biggest benefit that people that listen to founders and acquired and then hopefully read a bunch of the box and do setting on their own are going to realize this is like charly. I said, that is how my notes, and this is the first thing is like, it's comforting the conversation, how we truly was comforting.

The same way that people tell me, listen to founders coming is like, charlie has an almost complete indifference to problems. Troubles from time to time should be expected. This is unescapable.

So why would you let IT bother you? And the difference and and if you think about that, the me take away from the of dinner head with something. And if you think about how does he avoid this, he avoided that by great things have less problems.

You're never going to escape problems, but you're on great people, yes, like they're not going to throw up just like a great business doesn't throw big problem after big problem, big problem. Your your wife, your kids, your friends, your co workers, his whole thing is aimed for the high quality can get and then that can solve nine percent problems. And then when you have the problem, they the problem come.

Okay, you to do with that, he talked about when he lost the money in alibi, brought that up. You know that people try to make one of them for whatever it's you guys have missed on the point like you're not going to escape, give to life without making mistakes. The of the y has a great quote where he says, uh, making mistakes is the privilege of the active only those are sleep. Make no mistakes.

The version of the man.

the man and the idea. So.

okay, so what do you think is the ideal way to handle IT if at thirty five, someone becomes very wealthy? And so when their kids memory start around age three, so for their entire kids memorable lifetime, they've grown up in wealth and privileges. Like, how does one hand of that?

I have no idea. I have no idea. Like I know that the me even giving me the answer to that is like a there's this guy named tros keerin or kettering.

I do not put the same. Uh, I read his bag phy. Think it's episode one twenty seven like that so he invented the electric uh, starter. He found a ac delco that gets acquired by G M. He is the head of research and development of G M.

In G, M is the most valuable company and most like the cutting out of technology company in the world at the time is a story from his wife and his daughter in that book uh saying hey, when he dies there's only one there's only be three words on his um on his tombstone I don't know because that's what he would say over and over and and over again there's he's having this conversation same thing. He was the son of a poor man. He is now a rich man.

His kids are rich. He's talking to other people that have the same experience. His peers like what do you do and the answer what they came up with.

I don't know yeah because it's so dependent .

who the person is like maybe you give them money that going that bob magnets, ses grandsons, maybe there you know they're like warm buffets. Kids, we're like they they run foundations and they want to give them money away. And I don't think they are coke atis, I don't know, but like, you don't IT just dependent on the person. So I if there was a simple, if there was a correct answer, I think some of these guys figured that out. Well.

that's the thing about human like every person is different yeah .

yeah so it's I have no idea um I really that's the biggest where I think um this is one of the lessons I learned from the podcast where you mentioned this the beginning bend where most of these people are just so they're like best in class and this one dimension in the world. And of course, to get that they had to to be poor. They had they couldn't optimize all of the areas of the life at what he did for like their work, right?

Sam boltons were in the rare of guys where he gets the anti, knows he's dying because he's got cancer over body and acting that book and an I could do everything again. He said, yeah, miss someone like kids childhood, they worked in the stores and he took with somebody like, I do IT again, I had to do this. I had to get after I had to improve. A lot of them know getting in life like I great found a has the best words on this. He said, I had three sons growing up.

He started at here when he was like seventeen we're done to is like eighty something and he's like, I sacrificed my three son's childhood I regret IT he goes anyway that has kids knows that childhood not allow itself to be reconquered um and so like we were hanging out today, we are going to do record and go to dinner and I was my plan was I was I want to see my son he is like and my daughter like. I will take red eye and I realized I get what I want to be time giving events of leaving early tomorrow morning. It's like, i'm doing this as fast as possible.

And if I had you, i'd like fly back and forth because your kids are think about like the best you just have their parents are are they still life? yes. yeah. okay. So you get to talk to sam, but you have your whole life right when your kids are small, it's like this tiny window when they're like two to five to you.

everything to them absolutely feel.

Even my time daughter like right now he was spent time with me like IT was a cute thing ever um I was leaving going na l of C R early and coming up the temporary you guys and SHE text me SHE guys a unwearying your sweater because like IT makes me feel close to like what you're on you know mean but if you ask her, do you want to spend moving night with dad and mom or you want to go play robles with difference every their friends and he loves me.

Don't mean like their friends are way they're really important to them yeah we're like every day I miss my son of a third three. It's like i'm not going to get back that day and there's only like a thousand of those days yeah and my wife once having more kids, even I was like, I want a bunch up. I want a bunch and no way I know I know how to get in something .

that buffton monger did with the gram group that, like was way ahead of its time. That now anybody can do is they formed their social networks outside of the graphic barriers and and they found their like most compatible, most like minded, highest level of talent. You appears, and then they just like go on planes and got to go see them, like, I was really hard to do back in the day. And now anybody can do, it's kind like to build, girl, you have no excuse not to do that.

You also but hear a thing but people get wrong is just like all I want to meet this guy, you have to do the work nessy to make them worth your time, right? Which is like the unfair advantage ge that three people's in this room have is that IT doesn't matter. That's why like in the last six weeks i've gone to launch your dinner with music wilner is like and the people that like you get to talk to our services, like this dude is crazy.

He's at three hundred about grapes of entrepreneurs. No way to have dinner with them them and not pick up one idea like and then now i've built this machine where like oh, that's an interesting idea, just plug in into this business. And like it's not a financial transaction by any means, but there's no the reason it's not that like charly was the first person I met that I was actually nervous about and it's the reason i'm not nervous because I know have done the work like you can put me in a room with anybody on the planet and i'm not able tell at least one interesting thing.

Let me i'll be the most the best dinner there I had in a life. That's one of saying it's just like they're gonna hear something that is the thing and that goes to their own brain and it's only because i've spent six years and same as you guys. It's like, oh, you should feel comfortable like you guys mentioned earlier, um your audience feels like new two focal fields and like, oh, a little a bit of like, uh, you don't use work in security but like you know a little like .

nervous as I want these people .

to like like me. Yes, you but you you've most likely to more about the ject I do.

but I need to make something worthy of their time.

Yes, that is an arable.

It's like, I who cares? I could spend all the time in the world and failed to synthesize the narrative in the takeaway and all the sudden that i've just you know that I failed them regardless of how much work I did. The product wasn't good. And so that that's .

that's it's hard to not have the product be good because you did the work. I guess it's my point.

Yeah I think we now have a process that uh means that when you and I put in the work, the the product is good, but I took a long time to to arrive at that. It's almost like, um you know this is another same inky thing. Trust the process .

I get the point I was .

making there though is um like because you guys do such so much preparation and like it's now your life work, it's like it's just so much it's can be so hard not to add value to the people in your life whether it's like friends never showed on a podcast or friends that like you don't have a business ship with it's like and that you're just gonna d value because what you do is so rare like I all rover cunt has he's influence my thinking about too and he has a thing in um in the invoice the omo by friend err instance and he is like if you read an hour day to put in the point zero zero one percent of humans and like so that's the dirty secret of .

acquired and founders is that people don't read books. So if you just read them and then tell people what's in the books. You're going to hundred s the market for books .

and I couldn't believe that I have a dinner with the same friend, uh, that was telling me like I told to build a business around like my inning like months ago and he's like you, vasily over estimate how much people really he goes how much many books a year you into air person .

like I don't know remember asking a book publisher he he said .

amErica reads a book a year he was so I said, well, we like ah twb he's like is zero they are IT is zero yeah it's crazy. Yeah at your point, I become friend d to the bunch of a writer. Some of them I met to the podcast and they're been telling me like teaching me about the publishing industry and just breaking down like ninety eight percent of books ever published so less than five thousand copies.

It's parallel. The book business is the venture business is which is so interesting to me how ah the advanced del works. It's like quite similar to a cede financing. I mean, they put out you know fifty thousand dollars for an advance on your book, which is covers your cost of living, what you're writing IT. And like they kind of don't care about recouping IT because .

now it's even worse. The whole .

business is about do I did I sign up um James clear this year? Yeah and like you know, when you have a Michelle obama on your hands and you have to pay for IT, but you don't know when you have a James clear on your hands and when that becomes the book that amErica reads this year, you Better make sure it's in your publishing house and not one of the other three big before big.

whatever is publishing houses. Seed funding is Better because their advances were capable, right? So it's like we have this long conversation.

The most preferred stock yeah.

we were .

talking before .

participating erred. Oni would be great to do a sessions. He pay people being so important like so about history and he we were talking about this and he's like, no like I have to pay that back to sales like 可是 the thing is going back to like um you guys listen the game craft .

black rob yeah every .

episode so excEllent like unbelievably good。 And what I loved about is how they focused on the business model innovations and how one decision by random group of programmer and ninety eighties affected a business model decision ten years later, whatever. And I was trying to see me about the single, the books are fantastic, the best products in the world.

You can, uh, is a great point, poor choice. Omani c which says that, uh, there's ideas worth billions in a thirty thirty book for, remember more about that. That is literally true.

And what I don't know thing is like you guys have such a high value product and you haven't innovative in the business model. All yes, it's I was telling gmos. Like do you know the deal? Like like you you think about this is an entrepreneur.

You're not a writer. You're entrepreneurs, your product is happy a book, but you can make money off that any kind of way you want. Like you just get creative if I go, people, they get crazy wrong, like i'm going to be the G Z of podcast and people like what the hell is wrong with you? And I did like that.

Have you done? Epson episode did not popular. People is, has fundamentally. And he had, this was a kid, and you just see everything is hole here. And people look at him like all like, this is nothing but intelligence manifests of factly, different ways. It's not always like credential in many cases is not really like juices straight genius.

If you listen to women and what he did and he looked at, he's like, yeah, he says from the rico, he's like, I thought I told you characters, not a rapper. He's like, i'm a businessman and wrap just happens to my product and so i'm going to think about like that. I go, jim, I should do that. I go want to just find a deal like like J, Z. Do with, what are you .

talking about? What's IT like two founders, entrepreneurs, whatever, you know, founders they care about, others ship like they own their work .

and realized that you, the business model matters. Which is why I brought game craft, is that what J. Z.

did. This is years ago. This is his magna Carter holy grail. I came on two thousand and thirteen so he goes, he goes, um you know I could I record this this this uh album and then I could sell like Normal you stream IT and itself for ten dollars with the physical copy. He goes, what if I just want my money?

Guaranteed so he goes to samsung and says, samsung, you're launching this new APP are this new phone and you have your own APP on IT. Uh, i'm going to sell you. I will show you A A million copies, five dollars each.

You give me five million dollars guarantee from an alm. I'm still going on IT. So he gets a streaming light, he goes.

And so what I do is like you pay me five million. The first million people that get access to alm are gonna samsung. That whatever from is coming out, you doing look for free if you have this device.

And so it's advertising to the and it's guarantee money home I go, dude, you are writing about technology founders was like, there's these venture capital funds that have eighty billion dollars of s hey, will you pay me million dollars write this book and you say, hey, this book is now presented by whatever firm this is. Why mean you have I have talked about this privately. You guys are you know this was like there's been like something like fifteen acquisition or investment offers for founders to know every single one.

A lot of them like this works like, oh, well, you have the attention of people that available. You just said the worst thing can happen to a venture firm is they miss the the hit of that so they have to expand like let me sure to catch that, right? So I, 我， 我 pay for founders， whatever give you example of money, pay you to do IT you do exactly? You do the only differences, try to buy up to you forever.

Like, hey, founders is presented by x company. If you're going to raise money, email here, you know and the the response I have when these are these pictures is like if I did that, that means i'm not actually learning the lessons in the books, which is like you never give up control. It's like, no, that's let's .

dive into IT like a deal structure on that. So like what if they weren't what if you weren't giving up control? And what if you weren't giving up economics forever? You're just doing a period of time buy out of your ear adamantine.

This is the intelligent thing. This is what tiguas is doing with the the best and this is why, like, it's crazy to me when I talk to people and they don't understand, I had a conversation with the founder and he's like, it's really weird megacity who was he is really wear this company is running ads on that podcast every single episode forever. And i'm like, and I go and .

moving for that day. I go demonology ran .

the same exact ad in the same magazine for thirty years, and IT was still effective. And so I I like this is I what do the coca cola been doing for hundred? This not no idea .

coca is really dumb or and I think that apple has the prime billboard .

in every major city in amErica to advertise whatever the latest iphone is.

R so I talk to a Michael elsey who is the cofounder of these and and we know good 啊。 And we talked about this like and this is a another example because this sometime somewhat affects our business because when there's like a decline in overall economics like h ad market using shrink a little bit and ad rates come down and like, oh, you're exactly what the investors like.

What do Charles and buffer do when there's a crash? They don't deploy, deploy. You read easy sharps fantastic to y the founder four seasons, right? He says, he goes, he's building what didn't exist at the time, the only chain of five star hotels at the time.

And he says, I grow. And this is every founder, dust andrei, john I rock, foller and rick frick, when they have recession, when they grow. So what he would do is his competitors would pull back on advertizing.

He would spend more. And he says, he claims, I think the book, he he cries mark, about twenty five or twenty eight percent, using this over over again, because human nature is oh, crap. Things are the this way.

Og be said. Og be said, if you need advertising to sell your product, it's not a marketing expense, is a production cost IT is a it's actual uh, cost of manufacturing your product. And so what tiguas micon ic did that a genius move was, first all he knew something was working right, and he scaled up through parcels and he knew he was effective. And then he's like, okay, well, like now you have the all these people in the tech industry are their stocks creating a basic running and treat what does he do? He because I oh because .

there's play a available inventory and so he goes.

uh hey uh glosses that ork i'd like to buy a uh every single add in for two thousand and twenty three and every single on your shows. That's how you know that likely hod, that guy is gonna in like I don't know the details of the business is private and everything else is like, that's the right decision. Same thing.

That's what all gaby would have done. That's what both and monger do when they put money in like that is that's what cocoa o IT does. IT doesn't matter. The economic client is you ever going to see less apple.

uh uh, billboards you can see less is just think about the venture business rate like uh, which obviously as we record this here in mid march twenty twenty three, I go the Better.

So dynamics right now that I feel like we don't know the last two iterations of what have happened because we've been recorded. I checked my phone. That's fast. Things are happening .

very quickly as we speak. But I think a consequence of that, your point about like you should advertise how if you are doing recessions, I think different customer differentiation among venture firms is declining rapidly, right?

Like what is wo no IT was until a interest rate when up.

but now nobody even like I think I think I think both the up and the dow cycle is both. I think are .

I totally disagree with this. I think capital was a commodity and money was free. I was extremely hard to difference rentin yourself as a venture firm or any financial firm. But like IT, IT should be easier than ever to differentiate yourself because the thing OK.

So how do you find yourself right now?

You guys are .

doing you you can I mean, well, one of them like, let's let's abstract away, like speaking to the acquired audience says as of them, uh, or as a gigging tic means of difference.

You X, Y, Z.

average french of money, having money and writing the chat.

Yes, having money, right. But like a year from now.

six to eight months from now, that's going to be differentiating .

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so I have a thought of this. Ah one I don't know anything about venture investing too. I don't know anything investing period like I get to talk to supersonic investors and i'm sure the questions I called on you have to find that for me and i'm sure to like this kids.

I A um but when you guys were talking about about like your business and like your adventure game in general is, I just think of like what one of my favor things that I heard jeff faces will say is, you know for years people are like k when you're going to do physical real when you're going to physical retail when you going do physical, saying that was crazy like physical retAiling ing is an ancient business. I love that terms like it's ancient business. So i'm not going to do IT until I know that I can.

It's so hard to improve on an ancient industry has to be completely differentiated. You mentioned, I heard you on one of your podcast where you're like you went to the amazon ghost ore just as like like fear curiosity, like like you needed something. And so you guys are parry by that story too, where it's like at one time they we're gonna like, look like meat and like all the other stuff you'd have to like, talk to somebodies.

Like, no, yes, to redo this. This is make sense. The key, the differentiation here is that you walk and you walk out, not walk in and talk to some guy like he's like cut salomi for you, like you got ta get that out there. And so i've had the thought because i've read a buntrock grapes on investors too. And like investing is an ancient business like we're just doing in different ways now.

And so um I was like, well, if you if you wanted to invest, right uh the thing you wanted to invest in private companies, which people been doing for um I always think of like like we're A J P Morgan, get as deal flow and you know like you're read s with the history. It's like people like oh, that was gp Morgan bank. Like no no, no retail bank like you're not going in there.

There's no ad like a sign on the doors like you jp more and IT was a relationship based. It's like you got in if you knew somebody right? I read this biography that's incredible.

Highly can people read IT? Uh, it's up to one of three of founders. IT is the richest woman. AmErica heady Green accounts.

How he denies that he knows every number of every episode.

then bus out three more, it's only, I like reference to all time, so hate Green.

right? Isn't only because your reference every episode all the time.

one day, it's just going to read recording of this all the episodes.

Mbs, but you are IT algorithms. Are you realize that .

of that's how I get IT. So the heady reno was so wealthy that SHE bailed out. The city in new york at that book has unbelievable stories.

This is, I never heard this person is name, and they build .

out the city of her family. So the Richard, when he was a lot, the richest uh city in the world per capital, was like new bedford massachuset. Her family made so much wAiling in the way they looked at the family fortune is I am a student of this money.

My job is to make IT grow so that the next generation is more and then she's like the third generation of these whaling and an whaling dissent like IT IT died out, I think, the generation before her, so they had to figure out, make money, the technology stocks of her day roads, like he made a tony money roles and then you d buy land like real city in new york, everything else but anyway, my point being and I had this conversation with Patrick one day um as I think about IT like that was an ancient the investors ancient business like you went do what heady Green did, like where to get her deal from uh, people knew her the new, she's wealthy. They knew that he was the first person to go to in financial panics. They called financial panics.

We all sessions and depressions now. And I was like, you know, every three years back then. And so what you would do SHE had a desk in chemical bank.

In the vantage, there is geography, physical location. You're at the center of finance in america. You need to be here. You build a reputation.

So, literally, their stories in the book, where to be a line of people in french rashes waiting for her desk like, okay, i'll see you, my role. Socks, pennies on the dollar. Chen, vat, the same thing.

He invested with him in a much other people, right? And I like, but what would you today? Like, you're an eight. You want an edge.

Everything we're talking about like like you need an edge, right? You can't play the door has a great the great quote in his book is like i've been a money manager for fifty years. One thing I know is the serious way to get riches only play games and make investments where you have an edge.

right, right? Which is another way of saying do something your competitors don't art .

or can't are what evan, so Edwin land plays a huge l of my life, found a polar right here because he said, uh, have a personal model. IT may not fit ils don't do anything somebody else can do. And so I was like, okay, I don't think anywhere else can do founders that way. I do IT so i'm going to do so.

My point is like how to do today? Um you would like I would look very much like what I think you've got a building and i'm not an investor so I don't know anything about your your world but it's just like i'd spend my time reading and learning about business history charly monger and more buffet to that every single investor you guys apart read about that that all the time they I would share what I know that's gna build my network of other people. Those people are mentioning in some deals, then I have this huge advantage that you can even do ten years ago. Fifteen years ago, o is a podcast, right? It's like now I can record all the stuff on learning, right.

which we should say like there been initiations of this. Like this is how a united ventures became united ventures, our foundry group became foundry group and logging. And then brad and Jason writing book on venture deals. I mean.

it's like Angel venture hacks with a wall and vy. I have two other examples. This is like, even venture, like, what is the most successful content marketing of time?

Michelle, no.

Char t this is how, you know, just a genus IT is the greatest act of salesmanship. You never even see the sale happening. It's like here and they spend, you know, you have guys have prive domes research how much timely spend on those letters.

It's like half a year, seven, eight months for every letter. This is not. And the crazy thing is like.

he's.

how many people have? This is something totally talked also. This is a great, great thing that this came up her, you talk about the letters? No, I asked him about. Like, so I was explained. I like you. I'm literally in the middle of like reading about you when you were like around my so every time I read a book, i'm like, okay, I first well, I know what you're they're born.

So every time as I go to the book, I like hold day and I write down OK twenty four years started, I want to know what they were doing in the around me and so like try i'm thinking about you guys like you just started like your fun started like forty wanders something that remember what I was right and and I was like then like fifty, you started out. You're trying to figure things out. You could see them kind of figure you out making the mistake.

You guys in excell job in your episode, like talking about what they learn from getting to, like, get away from the background. Like, get to one of excEllence. Great businesses are rare.

We should be in there. And then this should let time do all the work. And I think analyze guys, put up the greatest investment amErica the world ever seen.

Like, are you surprised? Of course, he's like a course of surprise. Like, how could you not be like we want to be successful and we would like had we were ambitious and driven. But there's no way you could say anyway what what purchase market up like and and whatever IT is but he said on but the the reason that popped my mind.

Um when when I was asking him um like these these questions, let me actually get the exact notes I don't want to mess up um the way he said because his lines were just excEllent um and so he goes he surprised a successful human warrantee about how could you not be surprised and then he says something was fast he I think we get too much credit and like, that's interesting. Like why do you think that early and he's like, uh, it's very he goes, it's I find IT odd to be so wealthy and loved. That's not, these are not exact words.

They're my interpretation of his words. And just speaker here. I find IT so odd that to be voting loved.

That's not the usual human reaction. And in my note, tied to rising the purchase letters for the greatest contempt road. I wonder if this is because I think so much time teaching.

So what is when you require you guys are teaching, right? Berkshire going to go to programme to berkshire y're teaching. You could just not read a book and read, by the way, we'd like to be the barriers of choice.

So you if you happen to know of this business, like this business that you want to get your hands out like know you care about and he does this excEllent product differentiation coming yeah the greatest contest. What what is like, how much money they make off of that. And obviously.

and I think this is probably I don't even know it's on the list of things that they care about, but like it's also marketing for their businesses like totally, I have I O current certs because it's a bridge healthy.

This is how we talk on drinking.

I feeling extra kinship for Brooks running shoes where .

books right now.

Okay, so I were, I I changed out. I was an Apollo hoody before, came over. I wash the documentation and roof lawn.

I just did a pocket. I just listened to episode. Yeah, I think if I posted to be I I won from right let's see this good.

Let's see right now. Let's see if I could be wrong. I could be full crap is to eat IT. Okay, so but before that I watched uh, a document on them like years ago and I found out that he did. I always go to bend for the proper pruning ation like we'll do the same podcast, I will I say like A K O maria and then he's like.

I O I give you the correct american. It's unclear. It's actually rather so he .

did the same thing that he did, you know like they were struggling in the early days. So on they get this huge order to like were going to take a hundred thousand unions, whatever IT is, but take off SONY and put on our name and IT hears like, we have no money. yeah.

But he refused to do that because i'm not building your company, building mine. I love that like that entrepreneur, like bullheaded tennecy. Same thing.

Rough, rough is broke. Human's wife are living in a house, our apartment, with a train winning over top of them. They're sleeps on a mattress and he's making ties and blooming deals that will take them we love them take that name off. You're in the our house brand ah and he packs up his ties is like i'm not here to build your brand, i'm here to build mine like that. So that time because later in life.

like he would make so much money on just licensing out his lessons, the brand hearing that .

made me buy more policles hearing your for bio makes you buy bio. The advertisers you haven't acquired because they love you, your audience of you know you guys beat them and like you have a lot of people that want to uh, advertise that you don't like like you're related that goodwill that you're building up, the god will that that but that built up another the second may be most.

by the way, there's a little test test for that. It's does the acquired brit like I want to only work with sponges that I want to so full throaty endorse that I feel the acquired brand get stronger by working with them. And like if you can actually just keep doing that doubly, I think that is like an amazing way to build a brand. And you know, we try when I done always work and sometimes we just don't sell adults because we're like, well, with the bars here .

long term like OK on advertising, do you know I can we do for ver, we say, yeah right one week we could do this another forty years. So the same thing is like the same good will that you're talk about. It's I drink I don't drink energy drinks, right? But like the former found showed up with .

five jo goes this this is the .

only energy drinks I found and I only found IT because um the I was driving home on tak's giving and all the coffee shop for clothes and I ve heard jacka's podcast and I know he has this and he says his war was as a there's a wba on the turnpike I was like, I can just go there like there there and I thought him I was right for the whole drive all they work point there is like, it's not like when I went to the energy oh, maybe do rockstone they you're not evaluating energy .

drinks at that point.

The format from founders I got from joko, I found his podcast because he was on converses his pocket cast at the very beginning. We just him reading books for an hour. I want to have sing.

H, I like this year, he does IT for autobiography, for military people. I think, oh, I should do this for auto, for, by graphs of founders, anything else. So the commenting is the second best version.

And you guys notice more than me, because it's your own world. And I don't know anything. I had spent three weeks reading programs, essays.

program essay change my life the .

four um the the reason to finally jump and dedicate my life founders came I was my right for slept in bed next to me up late and I I read programs as I, how to do what you love. I talk about this such a good episode, two, seven, five, seven, six and seven, seven are right. I know that for sure.

Are the three program office I did. I talk about this snap, how he changed episode, changed my life, or that that S A change in my life in two seventy five. So then I read. So I spent three weeks going to everything, one of his a esa, so something his new S A lack that they had in before, used to have this bright orange box at the top. IT says, do you want .

to start start .

a applied a White combination? Yeah and so I was like, think about so again, it's not like you went I thought about this like what is the founder version of accommodation was acquired version company? right? You have to be very careful, like you partner with and you are going so like what is the orange box? It's not like you go to paul grams and he's got like ten banner ads. He just like, no.

there he worked for ahoo know that doesn't work.

Your attention is here yeah and it's like, you know that starting my company go back and read his essays about IT watches interviews I had no clue, just like charly no, no. I did not expect to build on .

the summer founders program.

And that's the best thing about learning about the company of our history is like they didn't. There's no way when you could interview sam walton when he's his shoes the bottom of shoes has watermelon and donkey crap. He's not a black.

Hey, guys, and we're just playing in the world, right? yes. And so I love this idea of, hey, all of these discussions about the, the, the business benefit all comes from is the by product of educating people, sharing people. That's why people love charly and warned why all three of us of them, how much of us to learn from him?

Then I wanted to have lessons.

My life, they productive of my kids, lives like that is. And, you know, he part here at a million times a day. But IT doesn't matter. I got a chance to tell that. I said.

IT is crazy. He, he educated amErica on investing while still managing to do IT Better than anyone else.

There are some funny things about that too. We're um he says like, you know they get he says something like, well, you know there are completely he says you both uh in your episode like about snowball snowball has that that quote from buffton T S really important have an inner ccd and outer car d is i'm doing this because I know good. Our score card is like i'm doing other people think about me, new slash.

No one's thinking about you. They think about themselves. So our score for people can not have, like is almost really hard to have, uh, a happy life having an after school cord.

I like charlie description of that Better he says, like, I think was Andrew to ask them the question? Maybe Chris ask some questions. Like would you like you driven to succeed?

Like to tempera dad, to your mom is a great question. Because no, he goes, I had an inner clock and i've always, he goes, I had an inner clock and I always had another clock. And I did this because I wanted to do IT.

And like that any goes like you buffs like buffer has an clocktower. It's just like this idea where they did IT their way, uh, with girls. They don't care.

What are the people think? He said this about the fact that they keep some of their holy own businesses. And like, oh, the professor less so kind of just let them run out and like this, just keep the cash.

And then people were like, oh, you should have invest the cash. He is like, no, because we were opportunities. Our individual opportunity driven is that is aligning. There has about that.

right? 啊， you are going somewhere to eat earlier with the discussion of being a professional investor and how it's less different treated than entire been before.

Well, where I was going with that was at that look at the reaction on twitter and elsewhere. And and I think in them, you know much of the country to what's happened with this little mili bank situation. Not that this is a current bug like IT.

Also, by the time this comes out with me, hopefully things will just be calm and settle down and there be no more impending crisis, but another .

one's coming eventually, just like really says, have another on ten problem a year from now.

Yep, I think you are rape. And that just having capital to invest will be different cheating going forward. However, I think the aggregate and the reputation of the venture industry has taken a massive, totally massive hit over the last for several years.

And you're holding up, keep going. S, B, B is revealing to how other people think of silt.

Specifically referring to is. VC behavior and reactions on twitter and over the past week. But that's the temple matic of the direction, things that be going for years now uh like and part of its related to tech in general. But I think there's a specific like uh maybe hatred is strong, but brand decline of the venture capital .

industry. Yeah, I agree with that. Tired to differentiation .

among venture firms. So yes, well, as the market goes down, having capital will be different centrating. And like the number of participants, ts will go down in the industry will not.

But how do you stand out in this market as like like if an aggregate your industry is taught less of and people don't want to work with you, right? How do you turn that tie, right? yeah.

If if the next time walton has the opportunity to raise venture capital dollars and is like, you know what, I think I would rather just figure IT out another way and not build in that .

equals I think there are a lot of a people out there right now who would want to start businesses like i'm not going to raise went to capital because of that. And I don't mean and IT was a lie that I needed to, right.

Can I tell you from the founders perspective because I talked to a ton of founders, yeah, i'm going to go down, I think hope we will see talking to more founders than any non VC, right? I get offers all time. Like you want to rest my company.

I said, note to all of them like just because I I like do that, I focus on founders. Like I don't care about anything. And so we have these conversations and it's just like what VS don't understand is like how much .

founders hate them? Like, yes.

they hate them and it's not they hate the good ones. They love the good ones, right? Like i'm like to say some of the brand that i've terrible about like, oh no, like we raise money for much people, they're good, they don't mess us.

But if we ask a question are we need something, they jump on IT, you know and the promise is not like it's it's a natural like distribution of any industry. There is going to be crappy founders and great founder can be crappy investors and great investors. And so I D really think IT ties back to the the the principle that buffet and monger built a business on this is like only associate themselves with the best people on the best companies.

And that's lds, so much other problem. So yeah, the my issue is like there's a lot of VS in my audience to and they're nice people. Don't make me wrong. Um some of my talk to us just like who gave you money to invest, like what is going on here.

But what I don't like is like the best ones like this one I like about Patrick, right? If you talk to the people that Patrick is investing in, he doesn't like here's a list of ten things I took two minutes to think about. He's asking quite he does exactly does on the show questions.

yes. And if you need something like I do whatever I can because you got a network nobody like if I had to tell the founder what to do that I want to invest in like that doesn't make any sense. So what happens is like i'll get these emails like I here's like ten ideas for you and this just like you are you read that it's like you hire like an an assistant or researcher maybe of this ourself. You thought about this for thirty minutes.

Like I think about this all I ve thought .

about this every day for years man, like that's not helpful like what are you doing? Like you're just making I have a lower opinion of you because like this is a gone idea um and the only way about that is like you who brace Roberts is of yes okay so he has if this is again i've never reason a capable of no made of intercapital investment. But I talked to one of founders and he has the greatest description is like what is the product that founders are buying from dcs is not money because everybody is got money, doesn't like you money ah good.

but investments .

made in compared .

venture in the .

seventies. Yes, he said two words, improved odds. That is the best from a restaurant, that is the best description. Like if I take the best from you as a post, it's other guy over here.

It's other go there like who's going to meet with us? All they care about is, can you call my company? Is is that more like than my company succeeds? I'm dedicating my life to this man.

This is that a game? Like, can you make my company succeed? And sometimes you can do the money, sometimes you can work. K, there's other people sitting right across me that probably hope a distribution that is actually evaluated, like that is the difference. Like if I was going to venture capital, god knows I would not not be right.

I would just start a podcast and then I I do for six years and I get really valuable and then my inbox is full of people I don't have deal for. Yeah, IT comes in down. I have a friend, Chris, Chris powers, he he, he syndicates, uh, real st investment.

You know, rich people like to the investin real state was all these tax benefits. And he's got, he says, David, even with like this guys done, like I think he he's got either billion or two billion dollars of industrial class real state under manager right now. And he's like, even he's like David.

I just interviewing to do my podcast again, something educational, interviewing people Operating in the real state industry, viewing founders and just doing because he's like to doing what I talk to. People happen to press the call, put IT out there, never really promoted IT. You know, got a he's like with my small audience.

He goes, i've raised, he goes IT go at changes of the enemies from, hey, i'm create sitting an outbound hey, i'm Chris. This is what I do. This is like, can we talk and we coming to, oh, Chris, love part cast.

How can I get five million in your front? Yeah, total. They get to know you as a person. This is what I don't .

like also the relation.

But if you just said it's a relationship, right, which I think there's too much of this like calendar, like teches know that venture because they try to do with me where our founders do this to with you like hey love you show love to get to talk to you um can we talk and I reply back yeah something up then I get like like like road to assistant oh you know about .

six years from joe small has thirty minutes three .

weeks and now and i've done this like once or choice and now my responses that's no way to build a relationship here's my phone number just text call me when when you're free. I'm not a thirty minute block in your counter and if IT we have the inbound, all three get like I am already almost ending the limit. Many develops of the second build.

So i've rather instead talking to a million p i'm not a fester. I still talking to a million people for fifteen minutes. I'd really talk to five or ten people over, over, over, over again that you .

talked a lot about this and like you ve got off on me a lot, like I have changed my my mind set and my daily behavior hugely because of our conversations.

Charlie warn is like they go relationships. They found people they like admired and trust. They repeat like admire and trust over over again the letters and their talks and then they just did business forever. You it's not this wide but shallow, and that's where you get the bad behavior. And anyway, this high quality can see through IT and is not going to work and you're only going to succeed that you guys, your business parallel are going to succeed, get the very best ones.

It's interesting though, like the man, just like so much in life, like warn and charly really just so often, right? And if you think like if if you buy, the premise that the aging opinion of the venture capital industry has declined may continue to decline. Whether IT does a doesn't it's meaningful the worse than I used to me .

what what a warn and .

charlie done and you print about the best content marketing ever. What is what they do? It's a combination of a hedged fund in a private equity firm.

What is the aggregate opinion public active hedge funds and private equity firms over the last fifty years, nothing but down. What is the other opinion of burker or nothing but up? You know, it's amazing.

This is one advantage. I have the fact that i'm not in investor, so I don't have to keep up unlike so some degree eve venture couples have to like, know what's going on, right? And I closed myself off flagler. I was having dinner resume.

His wife and their asking, like his wife was asking me, like, do you know about this person or no? Do you know about this? I and seems like he's got a very limited like he said, like about like books but this do is not watching T V is not doing any erself.

We keep him in the out.

And and the good thing about that there is somebody actually um to essentially we use like twitter, any social media like I put out little a snipper from .

my you put out a on twitter .

in texas form right? Yeah yes which has .

been really working for you.

I'm going to read something that has a million over million views and twenty four hours because everything is going on and because I just had dinner. Ati, yeah.

i'm going to read to go back to what this is an amazing.

by the way. So um I go charlie monger tells a story about human nature. I didn't put this because of the bank run like I was just think .

like all this I was really my post this .

like with regards the big no no I member I read my is that yeah and when I I I I I.

I I just oh my god that you'd like just the greatest timing in .

history yeah exactly well, like he was an intentionally I knew I was going on, but I never said I B, B, I, I don't be whatever. So I goes charly monger tells a story about human nature. And then this is all charlie speaking.

One of my fairy stories is about the little boy yin, texas. The teacher ask the class if there are nine cheap in a pen and one jumps out, how many are left? And everybody got the answer right, meaning a right, except this little boy who said, none of them were left. And the teacher said, you don't understand a arithmetic and the little boy said, no teacher, you don't understand sheep and so.

so, so everything good. How okay, you are in the room and for several hours, how did like a natural conversation and they're just pulling out these like parables and these fables like, you know.

Let me like I ask question the best responses treat, I don't know, I miss IT myself, he goes, was the child charly himself and like, oh my god, that's exactly what he we've done. He would have been the kid. He the kid so the reason I think it's so powerful, like the story telling a bill, you guys, how I try to break down things that I M you ask, like why is this guy on my phone? right? I only thing in stories.

I think people only learn through stories and then one liners, right? That's why. Why is charly David ogly? That idea is, like he says, in a creative way. yeah. And you remember her, charlie ger says, hey, if you don't learn probity, going to go through life with, as a one man, one leg of man.

and asked.

contest so good so and then you think about IT, oh, what is that like? I'm going to get my ascap like that's the way this is here because its own shackleton and his family motto was by enterance, we conquer. So we're in the pocket business. Uh, you know, people you can do part two million do like .

seventy or eighty percent .

of that have quick in eight percent person in miami. And we were talking, and I showed him, this is like, dude for pocket, like me. Patrick angers a business categories, eyes and business. Uh, have at least ten episodes and I think at least at least one a week. You guys I think you really schedule lesson to the minutes .

of content per week where we're the same as everybody else.

But like that was one thing, like they release one a week, right? Eight thousand. And the business category is the second most popular, the second most populated .

category 的 the two time is .

fAllen off then。

Uh, yeah no little.

So this is i'm going to start. So this is thing about that where I heard somebody said they're like founders, like church for entrepreneurs and I may I drop in podcast on sunday and no, no, i'm not kidding. And if if I do video, I I swear to got, I went and looked, I looked at popeyes. I sk, I am not onna.

get a desk .

like think about my mom was like foments al Christians and like, I had to go to church. H my whole life and he was like, this is pretty crazy like, not in bad way. I don't mean a majority of was like they're learning from the same book every week over over again.

The stories tell limits. Yeah, one book, I can do the same thing. I have access to all the books of the world like I can do that. So I do think there's an element totally.

Five years now, people going to be like, this is the moment when David started the cold. It's right here on video documents.

Codes are the best businesses .

a hundred times. If you listen to my episode in and out, there's no way get that right. By the way.

of now, we got.

I did that.

You keep talking and I look up.

If you get this right, I did that episode because um of course is IT oh my god I .

read a book because the .

best businesses in the .

world are calls that would trade to founder trader of the phy. He said that trader us was a called for the overregulated and underpaid right?

And it's not to say that like like cults are amazing businesses. That's not what you're saying. You the very best businesses .

cheer and now calls them they use a terminal in their business. Cheerful coat. It's A A positive call. I'm not tell my jone's town, let's get together and freak and drink, mass suicide and things. You hopefully are building a product that's good for the world.

We had gary ten on back in the day, and he was talking about pantier at the very beginning. And he was like, tea was good, that what .

worked well. This idea also influences me is zero. The one Peter teos book is like, you know, he says it's like the best businesses, like start up look like quotes.

like you you have to inspire emotion in people otherwise, like just you can't stand out in the world and you certainly can't have repeat behavior and uh in a sea of choices for someone to keep choosing you over and over and over again just like it's like how founder have to be aware. This one I think interesting was created .

by ordinary people, but I have to be intentional about this. I'm glad you said, oh, this is where we get in on camera on recording that David is so called but I go crazy like people start talking me, I A bunch of them say, tabs to access the park cast and i'm like, i'm glad they say that because, like, even now, thank you. A O no, it's like I see an opportunity that other people don't want, which is the same thing in in the book.

So I think podcast in general of just fundament and and just that. But they also going to be wonderful businesses because their prone to be a cheerful coat. And how do you know that you have a cold? You just google and see if the people have tattooed themselves with the brand.

How many people working on the face on tattoo? You can face tattoo on their skin, a ton of them, really. Yes ah, how many people have .

tattoos of the apple?

Apple go in and out. There's a ton of IT. Dude, I like cheese for is my fair meal. I'm not a tattoo neo in and out logo on my arms. You take another level and you see this over and over and over again.

And so when I analyze businesses, I am not just doing this like it's on a game to me like, oh, can I use these ideas building my business? And like, warn buffy says the greatest thing. And this is, I think, speaks to why you guys are so like, hey, we know how big audiences and we're going to take a serious is seriously.

Warn goes a brand is a promise is the best description of brand is is I talked about the fact that I I stayed in a this hotel brain and acacia is in Austin. I loved IT a state and cat Monica, I loved IT. I found out they had one sympathiser. I didn't check the review.

You came here and they broke their promise.

I told you to say with .

that and that's the bigger thing, a brain was a promise. I I know this can be excEllent. The hotels fine.

IT is in like, it's in a terror. It's like, right? Not a place you want to if I wasn't traveling alone.

Wife, this is major people who don't live here, think that it's, you do and absolute hell hole and wasteland. A specific part of IT is yeah but like the other part is mostly where the hotels are .

yeah which is not good for the city because I like i'm not every saying i'm staying with you or i'd .

stay in a like I say silicon .

valley like the most expensive whatever does I like the whole .

business model I know think I got to take that person yeah. So like again, I don't mean like, but I am very intentional. Okay, i'm not going to break my promise. I want you to know, and you guys do the same things like if I press play on acquired, this is why, like dan caron is, you know, every one book an episode reads like thirty ah he only .

does two a year or one.

I know there's no and then do the word necessary.

We all feel I mean you in our own ways, we all definitely feel that about.

And can I get some feedback like how how can we make a quiet Better? Or have you ever had moments where you like post in episode and we're like I wanted like talk to be in David about this right now because like I have some feedback.

No you protect I did not .

but like I tech I would first um or the model .

not just not just the content but like.

no, what you guys said on your benchmark dinner episode I think was like, you know uh, there's a few pod casters conversion, same rates. Like there's a few pod casters that like they know what they are doing and they know by like what their position in the market is like how they're thinking about IT. And I can see who but like you guys hit like what makes special that everyone thing don't do anything somebody else can do you says like your markey thing is this super and death like Blake me the funny um Blake robs said the unna thing on twitter I saw I love that he's like only acquire to say, ah let's bring this home and so hand have life that's your brand people know told yeah and I think what you're doing here with like sessions is like a way to also it's like there's no you can increase your demand of episodes that you could do because they take so much work to do, but you also have a way to surface all information that you can have that valuable the people in different formats.

We are talking about this A A little bit before, which I hate things. We are talking about this before you recording, we just record. But um. You you are also thing but potentially doing something similar yeah and there's like.

yes.

but for the core episodes, we spend you so much time preparing, but then for something like this, we don't prepare at all because our whole career .

is does this make sense? Like what is the right number and format of sessions because this is the second session. Like we still figuring sessions out like in in your dream world as an acquired listener, what do sessions look like?

Just I mean, your sessions should be replace your interviews, anything that's a non acquired, like long, deep teachers make concession. There are no people interviewing founders and investors, but we need more conversations. So I ever did people like, if you ever do an interview shows, like first wouldn't do an interview show because like, your interview is a skill IT looks easy, like I always tell, I will like you.

you wield because then every weekend and toys a week for eight is just.

it's for, I like to read. He likes asked questions so therefore our formats match the personality and what I tell him, like i've been on the other is like you can tell if he doesn't this the questions in front of them because you can help his good question just came off of response of like a lot of people like um and is fine but like to tie the coin thing where he just like he has his questions and you just said in the interesting he's not going to follow up .

and he's going to go on the next one feels very odd because you're like, are you guys not having a conversation that I like left you an opening and how did you not take .

that opening there? Not but how you have to do, let's tell us A J E N J O and the interaction also about like, i'm glad you guys are so much nice like do you have any feedback? Because like, I can't stand feed back.

We're like not in sense, like I told you, I tell you guys this one time we're like a one guys like, hey, I don't like that you reference like the superpower of the show. Is that a tight? It's not like the episode ref lawn is going to tell you how real things like Andrew carney and rock fella and pao seems .

like you little ally know all your episodes.

Mbs by heart. And so to me it's just one large conversation. How happens to be separated? And so I text you when the guys like, um could you save that for at the end and just doing IT like I car without like acquired and I like .

I have a singular vision for how this is gonna go, why I own and control and Operate .

the entire thing. It's even further that it's like i'm not putting on a show like there's A I love antha ny bordin. When he was alive, I read his books.

He had a huge influence on me. Like any time I travelled, took place, he would do and go here to there's no way that's right. There's no way there's been gone. There's no way that's right facts it's called the oral biography. It's that format should be done more where his assistant um had interviewed, insisted a friend had interviewed a bunch people actually new tony where there in last days and then he used to organize an interview into, uh this biography called a boarding in the definitive oral biography I think um and is IT two thousand .

two .

thousand and so and so like where was I going to that direction? But h so there's a line the book I love IT says the the line between tony and the show is not existent. Yes, that's why people like H, I hear a lot of people talk about podcasting is I.

H, you don't actually know what the superpower podcasting is, right? Where it's like to me, one of super podcasting is is often to see scaled, right? Yes, when I meet with founders, I listen founders and we have a three our dinner. They all said something. They're just like a three our episode ters yeah, it's like the same person there.

And I think that that is a thing that that you did really well and we sort of accidentally did well. But I realized over time, uh, why that makes both of the things we've built as doubled as they are. A lot of people play characters on the internet .

and which in other mediums .

places really .

is a an easy trap to fall into .

a and like it's a way to cato's growth. If you adopt a polarizing character, you get a bunch of followers. There's there's there's a lot of dividends that pay to IT, but it's exhAusting to maintain over time. And IT has a conflict where when people meet you in real life they're like, oh, weird and so like when you actually arrest yourself, it's going to probably grow more slowly because i'm not like as polarizing like IT would be horrifying to live as A A polarizing character that you play on the internet in real life also. And so you have this more like slow organic growth path um but like IT is there is this cool byproduct now like I sit down with someone like exactly the same as I expected this why I have .

Blake robbins on here because he gave me the dynamics that spectrum that he talks about Blake is super smart person in general but he's like the way you think about this is the suspect um this is no idea this place for me because on one of this is like how much time do people spend with you right? Is like on one of the spectrum you have these like thirty second tiktok ers at dance, right and all the way the other in the spectrum you move down, they spend more time with you.

All the in the inspector of you have the switch dreamers, right, which he helped in Q B hundred, forty, six hundred years where there's spending like forty hours or fifty years a weekly right he goes, David, you're like one you're not they not spend forty hours of you but you're one one click, one click to the left here and they're gonna to spending ten, one hundred, two hundred hours of you and you keep moving down and like let's you you tell me youtube videos so you know, it's like the deeper you go down there, it's why I when I think the guy's name is nature. T when you like hundred deaves has a new product and he announced IT, you'll see a line down the lock. Hundreds of thousands of people have spent all the time with them. And so like, oh, nature out has something to all come down here and you see this over over again and then base as you could have uh like a tiktok tiktok that has a ten million followers yet they can even get three thousand people to shop some um and so I think that is like the .

way to think about so that's alga c rottler. Tiktok IT is almost a zero signal if somebody follows .

you IT dos IT doesn't .

actually matter. Where are youtube? Like, oh, they subscribe your channel. Like maybe that i'll come up in one of the top eight videos that shows up at the top of the screen of like what they should walk to next. But like, maybe not.

So my point in all that is if they are spending a lot time with you, and I love, this is my flip of what charly mugger says that you need didn't learn the big ideas in the main domains, like physical psychology, because they Carry the most freight. I flipped that to. Time Carries the most weight.

As long as what we're doing said we're not playing characters. We are passionate interest in this were not going to quit, then we deserve one for your time. You get what you deserve.

You get the audience you deserve if you get the business opportunity. Is everything else time? I know you're going to have to provide the microphone from my cold dead hand and i'm just going to let the chips for what they are. I know doesn't mean I like lilly gagging here like i'm on the seventies a week, i'm going to try to put work myself in a position.

So it's something I learn from from Steve jobs when he came back to apple, right? And he's like people hear that that that speech he gets where she's anta is like grand shorts and he's like this, like I only know he's the pool, the turn, a gap, but he mentions like what they are going to do and every focus on the fact that he's like we're going you know, there's no sex in the products anymore. We're going to do the four quadrant think a lot of people in the technologies particularly know that speech and ah it's let's cut the fat and I put all over a players, fire the b and c players, but all over a players in these four products were going to make but desktop.

laptop consumer and for both .

laptop and desktop deserve. And I was when he said earlier when he talked about naked, he like marketing. He's like apple socks marketing. We have to be great marketing company. And he said something where I read the quote in the library interpretation of this right and people don't know that it's in no, it's in this book called sample simple. I think that guys seems can see go and he's like he was an ad guy at a company for apple .

and he's like T W A B T W B A I T day who is the ad .

agency so he goes in every wednesday uh, actions express priority. So there's another maximum is like, I don't care what people say. I care like what they do so when people ask me, like first people to tell the founders like, hey, like what would you about this?

I never answers. Like what David son would do this, say, hey, we'll charly mongers will tell you to this or Steve john to do this like, hey, I had to start about here because, like my opinion, is useless. It's used, no, my option on business building and how I build my business doesn't matter.

What I say is like what is the how the approaching founders like why is he making decisions that's important for, right? And so Steve chose you told you that marketing was important to his actions because every wednesday, like three clock I at the time they had like a three are meeting, he would approve have to approve every single piece of advertiser marketing. They went out for apple.

There's not a bill board in the tucky that went out without him saying, yes, it's going to go out, right? And so in that speech, when you, if you actually really saying he like, I feel that the products for making an apple make people's lives Better, I want, he says, this line goes, I want everybody in the world to own an apple vice. We know that I can happen because of excess of putting goes.

And to do that, we have to get really good at marketing. So my interpretation of that on the podcast, what I said is if you feel your product can improve people's lives, I think you already already know because you get thousands of. Messages, just like I do that.

Yes, listen to quire, listen to founders will improve people's lives and work right? Then you have a moral obligation to get good at marketing about that. All that means is not get good to markings to our ad raters and go up or that we can be celebrating in that it's no so these these messages for all these of history, great tremens that are dead, that they know these ideas don't die with them.

And then therefore, acquired founders can get these ideas and push them down the generations. So that's why I mean, this is like, i'm not gilly alien. Yes, i'm onna. Let time Carry all the wait, but i'm going to do everything I can see more people, let's know. And if you try, funders say, all the socks are whatever, whatever.

But I just want you to have the opportunity to know that exists and mean you have these have these conversations is like guys and tell you right now, I said to you thirty millions of people that would benefit from listening quire. They just don't know to exist IT. So we got to come up and find ways to make sure that people know what exists, because they will love IT and .

IT will make our lives Better. Then we want .

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This may be an area. Am curious you think about this a where our shows and the purchase are a little different nose. Curious you been think about this. A lot of these stories are just incredible stories too, that are just like worth I think we're telling just for the sake of .

the story is interesting how sometimes i'm like, i'm not sure that we came up with a and that I would advise a founder to follow, but I know this was very entertaining and as true as we possibly can .

make IT. And so like.

this is there. But like sometimes we do an episode, like, I always feel this way about the most recent episode, but we just finish making the intendo episode like if you put the best fiction writers .

in the .

world here and you said, come up with the best lake corporate ish story that you imagine, you couldn't write something good.

I guess I referred to a little bias where, like, someone did something that, uh, I would not recommend and anyone do. And I still worked, made for a great story. It's like changing tmc. It's like he invented the notion of a fabrice semi conductor company before there was any demand for that.

And then IT turned out that his timing was exactly right, that like within a couple years, a whole ton of families, companies spun up and wanted to use his foundation, uh, but like he created a solution and search a problem and like, no founder should do that. But my god, did he pull a rabbit of a head? There is a good number of acquired episode.

I am like we should be crisper. I think about pointing out where like I don't. This was inadvisable, but amazing that IT worked.

I think that goes back to the game type analysis where we think about kobe brand. Jorn did this to where it's like a is I read the six six hundred page biography of kobe. And in the biography, the view with high school girlfriend, like, what would you like to date? Koby brian on high school, surprised had a girlfriend long like, like was like kobe brand.

His go just like, well, are dates consisted of me going to his house and watching tapes of Michael mico Jordan magic Johnson. Like we're not even on not taking to dinner like we're literally going to watch this thing. And so I think the the the game type analysis of that is just like IT is helpful to realize that a lot of this stuff is impossible to plan in advance. Is the one .

of ton of great quotes. One.

he is impossible. You're only going to connect the dots looking backwards. So you have to put something in faith, in something you got ma, religion, god, intuition tion.

But you have to do something. I just did a reread red cross autobiography, the government Donald again. And I hit me. I been thinking about the Steve obs quote too, this why it's so i'm valuable .

to reading. Yes.

if you think about this, like is a perfect illustration of what's to fifty years after radie dies for god say he is like, he goes selling paper cups, paper listen to selling multiplexers, which are like, uh, make milk shakes, muli mixers goes like, why the hell you have eight? Why does the these mcDonald brothers have some, have eight of my machines like you people had to heard one that goes to the the franchise system, which he didn't even do well.

Then he means Harry SMBR. And Harry is like that you don't even know a business of the empire of a one point four percent cut of a fifteen and hamburger. You put an empire by owning the line and upon which that hamburger is cooked. Those five things. This is not heal spells to all.

He sold .

paper cups for seventeen years, but he just like, hey, I have to go, my god, to the point where he got to force over this, his wife was like, you can do this, Harry, and is like, you have to trust my instant.

And to what that way back to beginning the conversation that you really good at highlighting recent though he was a terrible person and .

he he didn't try to hide IT when automotive phy are trying to hide IT, he's literally like, thank you very much uh june Martino, uh my first employee uh for missing every single one of your kid's birthday uh you're going to get some stock and download. It's going to get you rich. But twenty years later, i'm going to fire you and he, you don't have to put that story in there.

He put he chose to put that. That's crazy. Do I said the part that is like and it's interesting, like i'm glad he persisted, interesting ideas for business, but like, not only do I would never want to do business with this guy, I want you want to be friends yeah like I wanted want to do business with Steve jobs, but I want to be friends.

You know a very I feel like .

the opposite. What's like I want to do business with Steve because you could create incredible things together, but i'm not sure you'd want to be friends.

And I think the difference is from like a founders perspective, there is no working with Steve jobs. It's working for you hear the stories of how even treated like a subcontractor are not like the owners of the companies that contracts. It's like these guys are empire builders, like there are little the building worlds. They're not used to being like the Charles. Be talking about this because you know he he loves like a little the new guy, the byd guy do want one yes, I don't know, was named something.

You guys he loves leak on you from singapore you and which you realized is like it's like these are founder types but can be like founders of the level indicators are in some cases the dictor of their own company and like some people call equal you, you know, dictator is like, oh like can do that america, even if all of them there's no working with them. They're like they're gonna in complete control of the situation, like even being in the room with them like I don't think there would be rude or mean but like you're a supporting ant to them because everything is in great rock. Everything is he says in the book, uh, professions is difficult and demanding.

Professional co ald, I will constant, keep expanding the empire. I die. If you get in my way, I will run you over. He's like, he says the movie is like, uh, if my competitor was drowning, i'd walk over, put a hole in his mouth and he goes, and he was on the other end of the cause. Medalled brothers, because are fighting over the thing.

Would you do the same and stay? The thing is, is like, you're gonna have to compete on my level, or else I will leally destroy you. Yeah.

what? So warn tirely are .

so .

interesting, we go i'm trying to decide if they are the complete opposite of that or if they actually are like that just in their own ways.

Every single person has some kind of like their public persona is for that level, right? It's not like a podcast where there to listen to joe rogan for sixteen hundred episodes like, you know who joe is you can't hide, is going three hour shows three days a week for fifteen years you have had a good idea who is you see flashes of like you imperfection like we all have. I don't think you you don't get to that level without having he's got shot. They all got sharp out both like ever heard read stories about how warn a negotiates yes, like two or fifty bid, 12， twelve, fifty bid where about thirty, twelve.

fifty but because he's already spent ten years analyzing your business and he knows exactly the Price that is going to buy IT. And so now he's telling you the Price and he wasn't like a new consideration that popped up. And because of business like no at the scale he's Operating at, like he knows all the businesses yeah and in this .

this is from the gym clinton autographed um where he buys clink homes right and he even said like he he wanted to buffet he realized about IT and he talks about like he wasn't insulting him any means he is like warn wants the microphone and if you're in an area we're warn just on the micro, he is not interested.

I've heard that about warn a lot like people everything you think you going to go from being to having two hundred billion dollars and not distort your perception. The world. Yeah, this is impossible.

I say more about warn wanting the microphone. Was that mean like.

literally in person, like they would do? I think they were doing. Jim clay was at either like vents, talk to the employees or whatever the case was. He, like jim wanted to have input and he, like warm, would not allow IT like he monopolized. And i've heard that of a learn like same thing.

We're like you're gonna na be an element of him that you loves the shareholder meetings course.

What he didn't need to do that he created an event around million .

people come yeah you .

know how he loves IT. Is he still doing that? He doesn't do anything in the world that he doesn't want to do and that's how you know he loves IT like they're beyond I told we talked about earlier like just how disarranging must be like and I would love to know this feeling to coming wrong like, have a two hundred million or not worth like, you're living life on my god mode like, it's inten like I was watching this video, don't know if it's true, was like, jeff basics private jet has its own private jet.

His new yard has a .

chase yard.

I think it's a guest yard. Like, I think it's so that mean he he knows the biggest out in the world and there's a yet that will sell behind that.

I was said this, maybe I don't, maybe we will become so successful someday that I will regret my words on this. But I got to imagine having a yard is actually not like additive .

to your life. Oh.

so this is fun. I think problems.

yeah. So I think IT was raw law a sold his yard and is now a charter yacht because he was like, this thing was more work than any other businesses i've ever run.

One of the most interesting ideas i've heard and IT comes from our mutual from germany, who I think we mentioned early in the podcast, hopefully with dead game credit actually was talking to him and David pro and I precision jermy said this not David, but um he's like I would actually make the argument because I was like, all like, what does charly talk about? Call the birch ge.

And then was is there a second one .

and indefensible too before .

I bought net jets.

Now it's like we should be on so you look you look at um you look at like those how could you possibly spend like you know this year costs twenty five thousand years an hour. Operate in few or some crazy number. The planes are the same like you.

So they are in germany makes the point, germany knows, because he didn't buy businesses forever and his exposed like great wealth. People know unbelieved matter what if he is, he makes the argument that they're actually underprivileged. Ts.

tell me why I not just, yeah.

i'm going to tell you this book that just prove this point. I actually got a text motel. Us, um so is like they they use IT, not for like gotten sitting their sun bathing, right? He's like they're using IT for like customers invest in potential.

And so i'd heard this i'll tell you about how he's release and visible booing there. So I had heard this cause and i've never raised money. I don't pay attention to the venture industry.

I don't know anything about IT. I just have a bunch of founder friends and founders tell founders everything. And so i'll have these discussions where they are like they described the cording process that they get from some of these well known super famous people. And it's like, well, you depressive users describe to me sounds like an old rich two that like wants to sleep .

with like a Young man. Yeah, yeah, you do right? And there's of this in intendo history, uh, because one of brothers bold a tari and so one her brothers was running a tory as nintendo was kind of like.

And this is how they know .

that they yet that's how brother a tari and no in. And then how they tried to court in tendu was the private jets. The was clinic they .

put lines on the private jet with one .

morning uh uh technology anties now and they like ah yeah this another name who they're like oh ah he ah gave us he he picture of the manhattan, his private helicopter and we landed at his hatred state do you he got to deal he got to deal yeah this guy said, hey come uh, what you doing is friday night what do sunday morning okay come on my private job we take the california with me yeah uh here you want to stay with your girlfriend at this mention that i'm not using and you know X, Y, Z.

So german is a it's like the equivalent of like a luxury sweat, a sports rena. Like it's forgetting deal.

So but they're opening a different level words like all of these influence and some founders, the smart ones don't let like sam walton, you know he's like don't give us don't give me a freaking gift .

that like the everything event vilis, you can't come in .

here and give a walmart sales person like a bottle of gender. Something is going to influence in ways just like I want your Price you guys to did a great job in your episodes, tell me a little Price and then i'm going to go to you a Better be a low Price because i'm going, this guy, if you told me you down, he was me ninety cents. Don't waste my time. I'm gone.

You're not going to hear from me again. I have an obligation to the customer to do this to find the lowest Price for them because .

everything is entire thing, the low cost structure thing that's that's that's a water thing. That's a surprising. That's a jeff facial thing.

That's a rock filer thing. That's that's the most common different funeral. Every single thing jeff is like we're going to have lost structure.

We're going to low structure. We're going to be fish. We're going efficient somewhere a long line. Twenty five years later now the technical started up like we can just spend money all time because there is no interesting .

like the just money coming back there is on a pretty different time then founders today, the business laws of physics were different where there were interest rates yeah versus when they .

weren't but he started when they were none. And then and then the environment changed as he was building IT.

But like you know that well, that would have been stupid for amazon to spend one hundred million dollars on something on on like crazy marketing activities in nineteen ninety seven. Like you could imagine that in twenty eighteen, if all of your competitors had raised a billion dollars and where you know, uh, trying to chase market Chris fast as possible, you either have to exit that market because you're gone to lose or play that game on the field.

I find Better, find a like be more resourceful.

but like be more resourceful. It's like it's it's easy to say, but like a hiring all when all your competitors are hiring all the best engineers by throwing a million dollars year at them, like he is not going to be able to build a good product if you don't try to play that game also yeah for sure.

But like the whole thing, like when Peter till says this in his body program says it's just like start of don't have the advantage, right? You're not going to outspend microsoft or nefer x on.

If you had to find under developed talent, you you got to find these people that if they were the dentist, if they were the well, then you gonna go take you're going to work from eighty thousand dollars and some stocks options or go make a million dollars a year in netflix like they are going. That the whole thing, like about finding another time. So 康 vali used to be able to build， uh, high growth and profitable start of the rule used to .

be you couldn't go public until you had over one hundred million dollars in revenue and you are profitable, didn't and those boxes you weren't going to have and twenty .

twenty one of all the is want public IT had to be single digit percentage that we're profitable.

All I don't know.

it's crazy. The game has changes.

Well, gear point, if you have free money, you know the money supply classic expand, its raining down that that's going to build. You did you know doug only on and you guys I want you, did you have on? Yeah, he said like this.

He was time crazy stories. I loved everything about that guy. I loved them when I heard them on your podcast to is like that tough love. This is what I meant to, right?

He still, as I think maybe my favorite quote, favorite quote said live on in a quiet podcast of you could burn cigarettes in our arms, and we would flint.

And then he has a great line. He's like, I want you to know we were killed. We arn killed us to make the most money. We were killers to get the job done. But his be made the point, very few people party know more about the best I would imagine he's up there um and he's like, of course, like your money raining down india news that word is like it's just create bad habits .

yeah IT is crazy. How many things in my life I falsely attributed to something that were not just interest rates? Like so many things, the answer is just like, oh, IT is that way because we live in a zero interest ate environment and and I the human brain like to tell stories and at the end of the day, it's like things are the way they are because of mean reversion and what the current interest in climate is.

I wish I going to pop something like, this is what I mean goes like to buy IT like if you just, we should have. I wish I knew this. I had read this. I did remember IT, this is warm buffer t on .

interest rates, right? He says, is this from .

lower gravity? The log in nobel? No, this is from his shareholding.

TTS eighty eight. The I think the scene that opened to india that opens IT is sun valley right before in the bubble.

But the tech bubble t is like in have OK OK. This is why it's like, so I got like, you could have made you such Better decisions. I could made such Better decisions if you would just known this. And he had known that for forty years before IT happened. I posted this um on twitter and I would open up the next same like why does this have two have million views is like elon where I goes yep, I was like like what of like what like that you think .

like grains to so I go warm buffet .

interest strates. And that the headline is they power everything in the economic universe. So that was what A L was running yet to. And this is warm writing in the eighties, the value of every day, exactly what you think, the value of every business, the value of a farm on apartment, house or any other economic asset is one hundred percent sensitive to interest strates.

That's because all you're doing when you're investing is transfer money to someone now and exchange for extreme of money, which you expect to come back in the future. And the higher the interest rates are, the less that present value will be interest. This is fantastic.

Interest rates are to asset Prices. Prices sort of like gravity is to an apple. When interest rates are low, there is little gravitational pull on on asset Prices.

We just live to this right interest book. And when interest rates are low, there's a little gravitational polling. Asset Prices, interest rates power everything in the economic universe. Because I found that because all of this member inflation went crazy, like in the year two ago, whatever. And I like, okay, what everything that happens, all I do is I have you could buy the kindle version of buffer charlette for like two box and and I searched IT for like interest rates inflation and I just go and I read, okay, I A billion .

dollars of that two dollar purchase .

go and so like you will say, okay, this, what is that inflation and then you see what year he said, IT, and it's like, and that's why I found that I go, what do you say about interest strates one, one thousand, nine and eighty, whatever.

And he just laid out of money because what he also did right there is for every college finance soft, more than having to go through a class to do dcf. And they're like, I don't understand this. This is complicated like he just explained conceptual, a discounted cash flow model there in a way that was like unbelievably digestible. He's so good at that the .

clarity thought because .

he wants the but now but .

also like he just educated you in a way that makes more sense and is interesting and you're entertained by and you might build a business of that and and sell one day or whatever the cases is. This is where i've spending a lot more time of like really trying to work on storytelling ability and concision, right um the value is the compression in the dissolution, right?

If you could listen to like uh an audio book for twenty five hours, but if I can give you the best idea, or one idea to change your life, and I can do IT, you know, every week or whatever, like in a couple minutes, like that is going that some of value is going to brought back to me what and all that comes from is what I realizes all my heroes have. Like what they have common is like the unbelievable clarity of thought, like Steve jobs charly. But you're not going to like, oh, what does that mean? They take unbelievable complex things. Like you're not advertising to a standing army, advertising sing to moving parade, making a remember of away and then you Carry that maxim with you forever.

How do you get Better at that? He said you're .

working on IT reps. Just stand up reps like thinking about IT and then hearing yourself back so the adventure of that edit is, yeah, I you can he say something and like, oh, that was so good and you hear back and sometimes is even Better or many kind is worse there. Oh, I lost. I was. I know what i'm saying yeah but you miss this part that doesn't make any sense and a Normal as I cut IT, I I don't think ever I don't think ever rerecorded.

We only do that for one episode ever really hard to do what we yeah do you know which episode did for now was recent nfl? David, I got on and we recorded forty minutes of material over maybe fifteen .

different parts of the episode.

Ginna epo de was too long IT when we started IT took way too long to get interesting part, the p rosel era. And so we had this like massively bloated beginning. And then we had a story c that didn't cleanly resolve, and we had bunch of concept where we didn't nail the explanation.

And so we went and we cut, like half of the first epoch of the story. We recorded new bits to like create nice rising action and resolution on the rosel. And then we recorded another like like ten areas where we were just like this wasn't said super tight. And i'm all i'm really curious of people noticed because we had the like we be basically at a voice act like we do listen to the way that we sort of came in to that segment.

Get that in our house, your theater background yeah come in and i'd .

like pick IT up from there. But ah your editing is so good.

We've talked about like back analog sponsorship, and you told me where you do was like a info and I will listen you back. I walk and like, do so this sounds like I was there the day you did IT IT is perfect. And I know, because we talk about this, that that ad was not there, but IT sounds like get there.

That's ago. The N F oisin de is what I meant, really is a crazy story. But even there is like a lesson wear, like you guys I texted, like total changed the way I think about things. So maybe we we're talking on the me about this like I never proud of that. The nfl was like the largest .

media company yeah and either and the funny thing is that like that was the David rose and fall inside that like the nfl is the single largest mea property by value. And the funny thing is, if you go look at the because we do this for the intendo episode, go look at the largest media properties. Uh, they list mario, they list pokemon and they like and then and I think if you sort the the list includes like video games and movies and so others like the mcu in there and their star wars in there. But like they don't think the nfl is way bigger than all of those, but it's not in the list because .

people don't think of IT as like a medes for investing to is like what is something that is just so like in the air that people don't even realize what IT is or what's a comparison .

we can make that is super eye opening, but people haven't thought to compare those two things before.

Yes, which is why I tie things into past cause it's like, oh, you know what the idea behind this is like we've seen this. We yeah I reread like the show notes like the Johnny ve Johnson says something was great and h he said he goes one of Steve s. Talents was identifying markets full of second rate products. And so like you would like all there's the opportunity here and we're both we're all packets addicts, right? And the reason that we get .

along and market full of secondary .

and because you know how hard IT is to do, yeah and when you go in this another business podcast and like I had a friend, um his friend has a podcast and is okay. These three guys have large media followings, but IT does not translate to episode where people don't understand well. And like would you listen to their episode and give you feedback? right? And we went, like, so again, next to, and I go on, it's three guys sitting around talking. Whatever happens, pop at their mind. What did you expect to happen?

Just kind of was happening.

The thing.

the chance that people aren't.

Do people, entrepreneurs, investing or not finding this interesting because the prep for this is not three guys that have a million of things to do, right? It's three guys .

at the last year over and over again.

That's going to cop up naturally in a conversation that you can I don't know about maybe like I didn't know who ever land was. I didn't know all of me I ever thought about the nfl is uh, as a large family like so now but their promising is like there is no value proposition.

This is actually something missing that. But what we've talked about over the last couple hours, people are gonna do what they want to do. And if people can do what they want to do and are given unfeared freedom to run IT, they can do great things. If people are forced to do things that they don't want to do, they're not going to make great or or either forced to or choose, put themselves in a situation for whatever reason, what they are doing, something they don't want to be doing, they are going to be good at IT.

I think that's one of the reasons why we find themselves so attracted to episodes that highlight craft is because that sort of like how we think about acquired, like if L V H benchmark, it's like people who do few things but do them exceptionally well are just so entrancing to study.

I think this goes back to where you're just sing like and I want to go to cry things like charly again as he simple is like most of the problems are that is not intensely interested in working on and he's like, I don't care how smart are truly smart as everybody successful lunch L I move myself position where I worked on some thing was intentionally interested in that just these like small rules Carry most of of the weight.

So how bad you actually want IT. And if you're not, when you do things, there is something wrong with that. Like entrepreneurship is for a very small percentage.

I am not only these people think everybody can be entrepreneurs would like to see more of them, but IT doesn't seeking that. It's like no one starting you what to do. No one had to tell you guys, hey, you should buy microphones and do but to research and think .

we didn't make ones to start like.

yes, I think the most interesting thing is that like I think we've talked about this concept before on air is that uh, if someone's going to advise you on starting a podcast, they would say, do a thirty to forty minute episode and like, do IT weekly know. So there's a new released at the same time, all time, have a guess. So that way that person promotes IT to, we're like, okay, we do the opposite of all of those things.

And I think it's like the conclusion i've come to is advice is an average and a and reality is a distribution and average suck because they hide the distribution. You kind of want to know the shape of the distribution and you kind of want to know like things that applied to your specific to point, not like the average thing. And I think like advice is always an average that hides the distribution. And if you know that you are actually an outlier in some way, then you have to sort of like selectively follow advice, because IT may not apply.

You charly told me a fantastic story about this where he's just like he was singing the praise es of byd that they're kicking us like he told me like not just me with .

a group people um .

they make batteries for cars and ah but he started out like like doing like knock off cellphones in career something and then like he I forgot the guys founder me and I apologized but he was the like story he was saying that the founder that charlie and lu lulu gave the founder advice and he ignored IT and he was right he's like, go go electric cars and whatever was like he did he's like and he know selling I think he said is like two billion cars like I forgot what two million cars just know what he said.

Two billion cars in here so like he's like so knowing ars and he did IT uh and uh, he gets all the credit because lee and me told him not to do IT. Yeah he just like change your point. It's a game type.

It's just like when kobe is watching this particular, particular play of microphone that may never appear in his life. And maybe the the move he did wasn't the right move for what kobe did. But maybe influence is other thing. This is like the life is complex and messy. And like you can think you're really smart.

And until you have a two and a half year old and they ask you, why is that the way and you answer the question and their follow question is going to me why and eventually you get to hit eleven where like I don't know yeah like I don't know why everything ends and I don't know it's like, I don't know. And so like, of course, it's uncertainty. That's why if you have if you crave certainty, you ve got to a job.

But there was not even facebook. And I was in college because I had work full time. I went at night, but my college did not have facebook.

IT was just coming out. So we had my space and my myspace ah you could put a quote right head. And I ve always thought like this from my entire life was like there's no security in life following opportunity. And I think that we did so investors and entrepreneurs are going for opportunity at the expensive security, and if you need security and get a job, but we see, like everything is gone to take, going to take, going to teach you all this money.

I think this is a super misplace thing. I I think people who crave security, which I get like all humans grave some level security um miss sort of this Price security because no jobs are as secure as we think they are, but they definitely cap you upside. And and people it's like is founding a company or going to business for yourself as an entrepreneurial mely risky? Yes, IT is.

But is IT actually that much riskier than a job where you could get laid off for the sector, could go through a downfall? Or like. There are a lot of things about having a job. There are not nearly as .

security people think they are. Steve wasn't jobs. They're like, worst is energy of jobs broke. Let's just try you like cells is van like fifty teef cells is van like fifteen, nine hours like us all in on apple like that that to me that again, I think a lot of this is like people are, is like a entrepreneurs, a need you can to be taught, can to be a school trees, neural.

And I was like, well, actually monger, if he taught, uh, a business cause what did he say? He's like, I would just teach the history of what you got to. He's like, teach the history of hundred companies.

And I talk about what went right and what went wrong to you. Please take my class. And on the other end, you get the degree that guaranteeing business success that doesn't exist.

Well, that was quite like that. They have been teaching entrepreneurship for the last fifty years.

So I was in. And so I went to the U. C, F, which, like diploma, mel, essentially and they was in the pilot entrepreneurship program, right, first year. And two.

do you take yeah were you thinking about what was your relationship .

entrepreneurship before .

starting the fountains pod test?

So like I have never been on a job in view. I I only had two jobs my life like I but I was like there was no neural, there was no entrepreneurship like community. There is no entrepreneurship industry, right? So like my first business was there's a long story but like um I have been accustomed I have some one by the time was seventeen, I had been accustomed to working full time and going through, right. So like people like you work a lot on founder is like I don't .

have to go to school.

I like do all the time. You like there is a long story here, like that take like thirty minutes but like like my dads at me down I was like fifteen he's like this and you don't have to pay rate but like I don't have any money for you so like if you want something you want to go get IT right?

And the good thing about my dad is a cuban immigrant, uh, not educated, but like the best piece of advice that he ever gave me and my brother um was a maximum. He's like don't have ask things right? So he doesn't in like a blue color is a truck driver like know that kind of thing.

He like he Price himself in the fact or like, uh like he'll work seventy two hours. Strait, right? But we never made a lot of money and never had education, like his mom wasn't good, whatever. And they had escape casters, cuba.

My dad was born in cuba so it's like, imagine like I talk to about this on casual Patricks at the end of yeah, it's like, what's the nice thing for you and I was like, man, like something that I was a decision that happened way before was born and like my grandfather is in cuba in nineteen fifty nine, nineteen fifty, and he, again, not an educated man. He he worked as a butcher and worked in a factory. The Mickey's.

Uh, he's married and he had a baby. That baby is my dad. And castro comes to power and he doesn't have a lot of money, does not speak english.

And yet he had some kind of insight that I need to get out here, right? And he goes to a country, picks up, loses everything, not that you had a lot anyways. Uh, goes, the country knows nobody doesn't speak a language. When I SAT down the first thing mean sams i'll talked about and I think hoped bond us.

I said the point where at the end he said he like my energy and everything but so hopefully like I don't know, um was in his story I was like because I had obviously read his automotive phy and when the first thing means i'm talked about was sam, I understand and emphasize with this story because sam story is his dad being jewish, getting the last train out of poland before the not sees bombs. Literally the last train out eighteen members of his family, his dad went around to saying, we gotta out here. This is not good.

So I know we're going to stay. They're all that sam. Sam dad and his mom have a daughter.

They get to america. His mom's pregnant. Sam is born in america. And so in that book, sams dads always selling them. You don't understand how lucky you are to be born here.

Yeah, I I understand that mentality because I grew up meeting the humans, had the single natural winner, which is they don't celebrate. My wife called me, so they take american to coming. Film is still, they don't show up with Christmas on Christmas day.

They do IT the night before Christmas day. And so I grew up, you know, at first long as I remember us like a ten of meaning people that came over on rafts, and you would see these things. I've seen this in person. I just like the rafts. Think about how create how bad IT has to be.

six?

Fifty miles right? Ninety miles right? Um i'm going to go over to the study. The university image is on this ninety miles your your apparent hopefully you might be a parent one day like you love your kids way more. You love yourself like there's people that came.

Hundreds of thousands of people went to the edge of the island and put their kids on a raft. Just hopes that they get to america. And so the promise that you don't make the announcement to the everybody is like, hey, tomorrow, relieving on a raft, did you get caught? And they were killed to whatever cases.

And so the university and we did the study was like, how many people did this? We know hundreds of thousands survived. And they estimated, like half, at least I think, of something like half million people perish. Never got there.

There's conversation with this. Is U. S. C. Five an important mobile who is in miami given back? And his dad was one of the ones that escaped.

He went on a their raft was a made out of a, like, a truck tire, like, like, think like a, like a bodow retire right? Well, it's his uncle and two fourteen old boys. They get off path, right? They run out their water, one of being like contaminated so you can drink proper .

IT any you make sure you get so you .

have like they some have hours and some have like like see that blanket over there. Like you try to make a uh sale, a sale out of like a blank at you. There are some of these are unbelievably in in like the love of engineering like you for uneducated, they don't have the internet.

It's an unbelievable. And so there in this case, they I know they had hours. I think they had a sale.

They get close enough to the bom as they they haven't drink waterways like three, four days. Some, a pigeon lands on the air. They want of killing the pigeon, opening at apart, drinking the blood, that only thing that saved.

So now his, so he gets to amErica when he gets to go from the bahamas to america. Now his son is like you makes millions of millions of dollars, like as a professional fighter and celebrity all the other stuff. So and is lunch y short? Ah the one thing like I my dad alive, I told you my mom passed away.

Um but like I really think like my dad was just like he did not baby me just like you got to like figure out how to ah yeah and so I worked at um back then this this is something that program made the point of right he's like to when I was a kid, don't job really like get a school by ice cream for something and like you pride met them. I met some seventeen year old founders and a bunch of founders. You talk to the second company and like what I was like, no grade I D like did this like gmail plug and .

like I said.

I thousand years month and music so much money, my parents let me drop out of high school so I can ah do this business not like I worked at a car wash dude, I made four sixty five cents and an hour you know um so he was long, short, short um I I would go to school year around right because i'd figured this out where it's like, oh um if you are most people want to some school they were forced to I went to public school, how life and so like people would go to public school, they would be forced because you failed something else. But if you elected to do that in six weeks, you get a full semester credit and there's .

two six week yeah mini mesters.

So I always college and I go to school year around school. I went to school so much that by the time I got to my last year year's high school, I I was since broken called O G T, which is on the job training. So instead of having six periods, you leave after the fourth period and you'd have to have a job and you'd get to your other credits.

Um do you employ your employer would have to like fill out paperwork because David, you know cleaning cars and like all there's a baby that came in through up did a good job with that was disgusting but the benefit of that was being able to work full time, full time um make IT of money work I like buy I bought like a new car with my own money, like all that other stuff until like then I realized like oh like I think I was making like four hundred or five hundred dollars a week and high school just freaking really good. This is like late ninety, early two thousands um and then I was got promoted to being a detailer that you have client list and then you started develop. It's like every other business like right? And they're like how would you do would you do this at my house or would you do this on my boat? Going to do like whatever.

And so my first business was just detAiling cars and boats and and taking out so stuff like OK I spent an our waxing the guys car. I might make ti bucks. I do IT at this house. I make a hundred and fifty hours. And so like i've always just had that like and again, there is not like, this is the story you guys read in the books and the story is like, there's no master plan here yeah it's like, hey.

I need to make unity.

All my other friends were working at mcDonald chick fully where you just said something like they cap. I never had a capped upside, right? And then so I did all these of the businesses. I started in college because I thought him in a layer. And this is so silly, because everybody I want, my friends are lawyers hate IT.

I dodge you there. Well, this is that the dream, like the immigrant dream, is for like the kids to become lawyers and doctors.

My parent, not my parents. So my parents never said the word college to me once. Now one time this are both high school dropout.

So like um they never like like I was one and only kids and I could never have a uh uh a curve. You like my parents knew I was independent and left me. They gave us the best thing. They get game to take care of self. They thought my mom told me he was like, I just thought you were a lot smarter than everybody .

else in our family. So we trusted you.

Can you have the set like being smart and this family is not like being like the bars low in the sense, like the they're both coming from multiple generations of people that did not part of his education or self prevent so that I am so like for russia in this because I didn't see that you know and so um the the this this demonstrated when my mom was dying of cancer.

Um so like you know hippo has a thing where like they're going to share paperwork or information and less like a gets permission from person and like my mom could choose whoever he wanted to SHE could to choose her husband, right? They had a about really ship. They should they got divorce and we may they should stay divorce, but whatever.

And you see that with actions. We said this actions respires ity. She's like we're in there.

And so who do you want the paperwork? But who do you want to communicate? Like David, not her other kids, not her husband, not her sister and SHE trusted me implicated um and so I I essentially like they never match college.

So I just kept this routine. I was like people like, oh um so like what do you would do for a living? And like i'm watching T V when not Younger as well. I would be rich. And you think when you're Younger, you know think who's rich on T V? Like I like fresh raz Bella, like judge or doctor and I was like, oh, I can't see blood like that first month that could be a attn y so I went to school, uh, and I worked full time and I was trying to do hostel.

Anything I could do until the idea was like, okay, i'm just going to go underground for business because I interesting business anyways, i'm only doing that so I get, uh so I go to law school right? And um this point of the story is not code on the deviation, but I was in the entrepreneurship program, the pilot one, right, because I was interested in try to make money way possible um and this is how bad the entrepreneurship was and this is why i'm kind of jealous ous of these Young kids were. Now you actually have an entrepreneurship industry and there's this stuff you can learn from the head, the main, the vehicle, like the main subject.

Entrepreneurs to want, right? The country, yeah. But all these other classes, but entrepreneurs want to want, is run the teacher, right? What is her credentials? Her dad started an ac company in florida.

You going to be a lot of money. yeah. And he died on the job because he had executed death. OK and SHE inherited the company, and then he ran IT. And so she's the teacher.

And so like the car is terrible.

is terrible. The best thing in this relates to what are we do for living now, which I couldn't never predicted, is there was a guy that this is this kind of a truly monger, says, you should read if you want to learn about incentives in a really difficult read. Lesh waves, autographed.

And he's like, this guy made a ton of money and really hard business, which is like tires and my all changes to suffer that. And so the guy was coming into the class. He was gna donate three or five million dollars to have a building name bathroom.

He had one prior. I said, because I want to talk to entrepreneurs dents before I give you this money. And I learned more in one hour from adde.

Then I did two years on entrepreneurship because he would talk for like twenty minutes. And these are open up for questions. yeah. And I little up question again after question.

And I remember to this day, just like a simple way, this is like, you know, he was building his business and then the Price that eighties and nineties and he's like, how did you know where to expand? And he's like, we would pull the car registration data from the D M. V, right? And we would know how many car owners there were in this pacy c radius.

And we'd have to hate like let's we we need forty thousand coroners in a three milray's. There's out there, any other stores put a store right there and they did that over and over and over and over again. Yeah and so like ideas like that and just like again, you learn through experience, like that guy could teach her a way more because he actually did this .

compared to I I think finally, all three of us have a like unintended uh, impact of college entrepreneurship programs on us.

I have a minor and entrepreneurship really yeah for ohio's state similar arly only .

ever want to public school.

Yeah I I was all different like I was really in the computers like I when I was ten, my dad, I found a um P C on the side of the road and he was like due on install latics. I was like what's latics and like me a terminal like I was really looking at. Dad is an engineer and so I went to college ge for computer science.

But you u p 1番 A P C on the cyber and my dad like i'm .

willing to bet .

that thing .

is just old yeah because he's like I because we're looking at you like at that point， you could open computers so we're looking at that. He kind of like books and apart, looks in size, like gala pieces. Like this is just an old computer .

thrying away. That's a you you major computer science.

yeah. But I like winning thinking. Like I want to have some kind of, like I want to do business and tech, but I know that, man. And so I found my way to a club called the business boaters club. And they were like, there's real, like an actual minor you can take. And so sort like through stood organizations found my way to actually doing something in the college of business, which like I go back and forth on whether undergraduate business stuff is useful because on the one hand.

but I came back to party and half the crew is the business .

and that there the content sucks but the relationships .

over but the relation that's ah and it's not the .

stuff your learning is actually super important, but you don't have the context for why yet. It's like you're working on A D C, F model and you like, uh, I don't this is useless to me or you're like learning about depreciation and tizer. Like this is awful because I have nothing.

Where's my face? Classes were awesome. Like there's labs. Like I can touch and feel the things and understand mechanical advantage how the three body DRAM works. But in these business, concepts are like super abstract and they weren't useful to me then.

But like, I won't took a core sera class last year, two years ago on accounting because I was just like OK like I wanted actually understand accounting in part because we talk about not acquired all the time and day. I understand the stuff more than I do and I did. But like is so much we're useful when you understand whether rober meets the road in the real world.

Like IT would just be beneficial just like going try to something like I mean like in like get real world experience. Like what what did charly I just read?

You guys read the town of charlie monger?

No, i've heard it's good OK you guy looked at IT for the episode.

I on the hard cover, the kindle and the audio book that should tell you like it's worth a um by the way.

I on the audio book in the kindle of almost every book that I own you.

I am including a hard cover two .

because you can .

also switch yes, that's the whispers thing.

arrests and all the time I actually hate that. They think and they because I like my common work flow in doing acquired research is I listen to the book, and then i'll take some notes and apple notes of like, like half quotes, where my god got to look this up later. And then I go back in the kindle and I searched for the actual quote, and I pull out the data to be able to using the .

episodes um I think listen to the audio book before reading a book is very helpful to give you a overviews and like watching a movie for the second, third time, you know hot ends and gives you pick up on the things you miss sed, the first time in the town of charlie monger, though charlie was talking about this, where he's just like I learned about business at the buffet grocery store, right? The cash, that money is the live load of all.

I think the cording the book is like money is is the lifeline of all businesses. And that's where the cash that's where the money was at this point. And it's like you just learn and he says like you learn the importance of like showing up on time how to work with people you don't like, like how to uh service, like take care your customers, like these are things that are all like universities ly applicable.

That is another form of education, like that's the biggest the key of experience and White so important is the most valuable uh form education because it's eduction of life. I love to read more than almost than anybody else, like you guys always love to read. There's there's just so much things you can learn from books. So this is like it's not enough.

David, what was your college entrepreneurship?

It's funny is more dramatic than a an actual impact, but I can ever have talked with before. Prince in had then just one entrepreneur class. I was like one class in the department of electrical. I was not an electrical engineer, but people knew about this because like this is cool. And so senior year I had already the recruiting happened in the falls.

So is already I have my job investment banking job that was going to go due yeah yes I hold kind of worms but um as like oh you know i'll take this class supposed to be good. I'm going to go work on wall street. I should learn about high tech entrepreneurship. Wasn't name in the class and um IT was like a guessed like IT was a case case method and and share the professor would have guess come in one of the guess of the last like the second of last class. Was his face.

He published .

the four hour? No, yes.

he he gave he, he asked both .

the question.

this this is he totally hold this. He likes traded on that name like years before he made in his .

time fears because he just went .

in for one class. IT was one class, yeah, yeah. He was one one day of one course.

And that was, like this case, class. And I think he had taken the class when he was in. And the professor, like we kind of .

so you are that our guest lectures .

at columbia. So he came in and so he was working on the book, but I was like done, but like was about to get published. And so he came in the whole classes like basically telling his story and then like shopping the book.

I member and I know it's like for the class, I titled them. I haven't still somewhere on my own computer. The title was supplement.

Guy, do what you do. Oh my god.

I made .

upwards this talking about the opportunities. See, he like, he's older than me. He's not dad.

Little bit out for a so class is and he was like, hey guys, anybody want to hang out? Like, i'm going to go, i'm going to go like hang IT terrace. Like if you want, princeton has eating clubs instead they do alternates. But like, yeah, one of them is terrorist and Jenny was actually in terrace and uh is like, basically i'm to go like, hang out. Have a good time with anybody who wants to come along, and I .

like now, i'll see on the park later.

Yes, I love how this just was covered in random conversation was just like computer science, investment banking law. No.

but like, no.

come and look.

I use theater more than .

I use computer science like that was yeah I like the idea like from venture capital Parker sters right um I went and uh my daughter asked .

me to go speak at .

um accurate and this is last year that he would have and so she's like daddy, like you have a weird job come yes, like you come in and like give a talk. And so you'd like entrepreneurs a dox and like crazy people.

They don't like, they don't like like they see rules as I go that just words down on paper like i'll just do mounting so I show up as I do anything for you, what if you want um and so I show up and the there's two the each class at the school he has has two teachers right and so like, oh, well, didn't hi mr. We didn't get your email. Uh, did you get? Like, did you bring like, a thud drive? Like, what was that the email? Why would have a and like a powerpoint presentation?

And I go there. Have you ever made a powerpoint presentation now?

And I go, no. But this I go there nine. Why would I make a power? So so I go there and .

I was like.

I like this thing. I'm fine. Like I wink. Like I got this like, you're like you're onna wing IT didn't .

use work wing IT.

but I got I show up right? They're all like sitting on the floor and is like thirty nine year olds like you like, stand up. No, no, no, no, no.

And so how would I see some matter? Gy, and I was like, I talk for two minutes, right? I have thirty minutes.

What I go, uh, I talk for two minutes. I like listen, um don't listen your parents, don't listen, don't listen to your teachers. I go follow whatever you're intensely.

I just give charlie what do you interested in in keep following that even if IT doesn't, you know there's not an always his career pats it's and a user word ago. It's highly likely that the job that you're onna have has not yet been invented. I was like, there was no such thing as a podcasting like I couldn't to or I go h whatever and like.

So that was like a two minute somewhere. And I said little more more than that. I go, okay, now what questions you have for me? And so I spent the next eight minutes. I told the importance of reading. I listen, your friends are going to stupid apps like you're going to a, have no attention span, learn how to read and read whatever .

you're in ted.

in your daughters probably like, like so then twenty eight minutes and then they tell me about books they love. They are like, I like Harry potter and I like this and I like trouble. And we had, like the greatest time, right? So I come back, I see there's like nine in the morning I leave um and I my daughter gets out you know later on the day and he goes, gee, thank you very much.

My friends thought your talk was the best, was like all that's like, interesting, like that. I'm glad that I go let me you your question, who came after me and they're like, oh, is that you know john mom or something? I like, oh, what john's mom do so, uh, I go first.

Power, power. And I, what is john's man? Oh, she's a corporate attorney. I'm like, yeah, so you like there nine years old and also.

that's like the alternate future for you yeah like IT was like, yes, you would have had a Better boy IT was like, bizarre.

David, every interesting. Like what you would you have at that? Again, I was living in florida.

And like the law, there is not a lot like you'd have to move to like dc. Like the law, there is insurance. Like, so I met the same airport, right, which is way either than .

national .

airports. They have the new, they built like this new part. But my and I see this billboard of, he says, the worlds are the america's largest personal injure attorney.

That guy was in orlando. A, I was going to land to his name, john Morgan. He was famous back then, and now he has so like, great work for him. Like, I like chase an ambuLance is no, just like like whatever you ve got to do to pay your bills, like i'm a of that but yeah, I just do as funny as like you also have to think independently there nine years old like they don't want to sit through did you? I don't want to sit power point nobody I try to like I would just brought a video game or no maybe the side black .

in mch Blake .

robs and match lasting made the point in, uh, one of our game graft episode never thought like, you know, hard IT is how few peer software companies are that they do over the cell, over a billion dollars in on software and how many game companies they said on the market, like there are so many video game companies that make so much money. I think you say this is bigger than the video given to you is bigger than music, movies and books combined.

Whatever has been since .

the yeah that that was the interesting thing. me. So is that get banned around D, D. Banded around a lot right now, which is it's very interesting because like the video game market has done this, but the video game market has basically always been larger than T, V and movies combined, but has never gotten attention or like been thought of that.

They ten out there for thirty years. People pay attention. Yeah.

right. I'm afraid to these memory cards filling up. This has been wonderful.

yeah.

Thanks for having me guys. Listers, thank you.

We almost never say is I think we got to do this again.

Let's still again. I'll be here next week.

Thanks, guys. Was the next well listeners.

Thank you for going on the journey with us with David. We would love your feedback on the sessions format as we sort of continue to refit. It's obviously very different that are LV intendo style episodes.

And getting your thoughts on how we can continue to improve IT would be uh, hugely helpful. Also go check out the founders podcast search founders in any podcast player. Also, if you want to go deeper, you can become a acquired L P.

To come a closer into the acquired kitchen. We have bimonthly zone calls and we just announced that we will be asking our L P S to help us pick future episodes. You can join at acquired data F M slash lp.

You should submit to our second show, A C Q two, formally, the L P show for expert interviews with founders and investors. Just search A C, Q two or one word in any podcast player. Also join us in the slack, discuss this episode and all the others. There is now over fifteen thousand smart, thoughtful, kind members at acquired data FM, slash, slack, pretty ool, I think, David, that represent they like five and ten percent of those of you out there who listen every month.

It's fully i'd literally texted them yesterday and I was listening to the intendo episode. We just released this. The way we talk about the quiet, slack, IT kind of makes you sound like only fifteen thousand people listen to required. No, that is five percent of the people that listen to required.

Yeah, all the rest of you come join us in the slack. Acquired A M slack. I don't know.

This is a great way for us to get a Better polls on all of you, who you are and what you like or don't like or want us to improve about the show. So that's all we got listeners. Thank you so much.

I'll see you next time.

Next time. Easy you visit you, busy you who got the true.