Episode 5: Siri
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Hey, siri, were you a good acquisition by apple in. See you? Waz you? Waz you who got easy you? Easy you with you, see me down, say state.

Welcome to episode five required. This episode is about siri and .

apple's acquisition.

Are we starting? Yeah .

we're starting.

So walk go back to all our listeners um as usual, you can um give us any feedback or anything at acquired FM on twitter. It's been a few and last few episode. Des, I think this is our last one before um before the new year.

Yeah happy holidays, everybody. Yeah yeah. Uh, in the meantime though, we've got a special one for you. Here we're doing hey siri.

we are, we are, we are. Um David, do you want to start us off with the acquisition history in facts.

as always. So theory, uh, super interesting history. A spin out from S R I international, which itself is a fascinating organization many people are probably familiar with based in menlo park. Uh IT itself was actually started in one thousand nine hundred and forty six by the trustees of stanford um and was originally called the stanford research institute and the purpose of IT was to commercialize what to research and then spin out and potentially spin out and commercialize basic technology um and has been funded by the government stanford itself and many other sources over the years done a lot of great work and in the sort of mid two thousands started working on this project called a kalo which was funded by darpa and that S R I was a major participant and the goal of that was to develop a an artificial intelligence based personal assistance um for the government and the military and sri thought that the potential was there to spin this out and commercialize IT and put IT on smart phones so in two thousand eight um they spun out uh what would become theory and there's a really cool story about how they decided to name IT actually on cora adam chair.

One of the confounders and the VP of engineering in theory talks about how they came up with the name and obviously that echoes sri that the company spun out of but deg. Kidz, who was the C E O of theory, had apparently once considered IT as the name for his daughter um when his daughter was born. Um and just think .

that every time you say, hey, sir.

every time you say hey, series and in in in north degas is norwegian american. In north IT means beautiful woman who leads you to Victory and then apparently in swahili a IT means secret, which this is my favorite part as as as adam writes on cora a tip of the hat to their predict days of the project when they began as stealth dash company that com, which still exists.

If you go to stealth dash company that com, there's this really old school looking website saying, steff, get in early. We are forming silicon valleys next great company. We aim m.

To fundamentally redesign the face of consumer internet. And then in new in events, they have office location finalized on february first in january eighteen th. Money raised from top vcs in print thesis lots.

That's the key to success is my understanding was the the big's hey.

you got to office, you get funding. You're going to revolutionize consumer internet.

right? So fast forward. So it's spun out its its own an independent company. IT becomes a consumer offering. There's an APP you can download in the store where if you look at some some screen shots of that, I just google round earlier today, remember having them on my phone, but I don't remember how bad that you. I used .

to be so bad.

but he was early day. So it's hard to know at this point looking back, if like that was sort of table stakes or if if they were actually just like, yeah, way, way, way, form before function, function before form.

And then this was back in the days of IOS three, I believe, and the iphone three g and the iphone three gs, super old school. And what was interesting, I remember using series two before apple acquired IT. And my favorite feature actually was the ability to type into IT.

You didn't have to use your voice. And i'm so bummed that apple ditch that over over the years. yeah. And well.

yeah, I mean, it's IT manifest in so many other parts of the us. But the the the main thing that they basically did was they took out a massive license with nuance and use nuance for all the speed .

track gnan nuances itself being A S R. I spin out from the park.

I did not know that, but still an independent company that that over the years has licensed their speech recognition technology to kind of all the major players um and they kind of combine that with partnering with a bunch of the the independent functions that that theory was gona serve. So looking up restaurant.

open table, making reservations.

whether kind of all the ABS is yeah and they they kind of went from there so IT became an aware IT was theoretically easier to use your voice to look up all those specific functions and quite onest ly probably a lot of um if then statement a lot of of regular expressions. I kind of just passing.

whatever you are saying, duck tape. I S what's interesting though is like I remember this being super cool as an APP getting a lot of press downloading IT using IT occasionally. But IT was actually way harder to do anything on IT versus just opening up the open table APP yourself.

Yeah and it's and thinking about that too. I mean, that was before there was proper dictation on the iphone. So I remember you walking around and opening the nuances APP the dragon dictation APP to talk in to my phone, then copying and pasting out of that into other things where I wanted to use IT at the time.

You know, now we're looking back like, well, I don't really use theory that much. I use dictation a lot more than I use theory. And that all kind of has been bungled together in apple is a sort of one big thing.

You so the company spent out they raise two rounds of venture capital from Morgan seller in menlo ventures, twenty four million in total. The company the apps in the apps store for just about a year, maybe less, I believe. And then in April twenty ten, and IT was only on IOS, they announced that they were working on android versions and blackberry versions at the time.

Remember like rain and so far away. And and then in April of twenty ten, apple announced that they are requiring the company for they have never disclosed the Price, but rumors are around two hundred million dollars. And then fast forward another year and a half after that to along to the iphone four s in october twenty eleven and syria, we launches as a baked in feature exclusive to the iphone for us .

as as one of the most intense um betas of all time. I mean, I think for a year maybe was was that a photo ease or two four releases? Syria was technically beta. And you know any any ridiculous things that happen to the city ads debate. It's the gmail thing.

perpetual beta. And an interestingly in a very apple like move, when the iphone forest came out, they removed the syria APP from the APP store. So if you wanna do you theory, you had to have an apple i've done for us.

And you know what is a variety of reasons they they did that, i'm sure one of which I bet people get confused. I mean, I bet you hear theory comes out. You see IT advertised and where do you go to check out the thing that you're seeing everybody talk about on the new apple phone, you're going to the APP store and that, that could be enormously confusing.

not to mention anything could help sell a lot of iphones that Christmas.

Yeah, yeah. I want to get into that.

So that's the history.

So apple acquired theory for for two hundred million dollars is heard a variety of figures but I think kind of lock on that on what we look at the acquisition Price this episode and that was sort of a pet project of of scotland stall if if you guys remember um you know he he was a sort of the second Steve jobs of the company and people talk about john y in the the design um design static and kind of that that focus on making beautiful things but Scott was kind of the product person that was like second only to Steve.

I remember um I think i'm remembering right but in the time when jobs is health was declining, a lot of people were talking about forest. All is potentially being the next CEO of apple yeah yeah it's true.

And I think I think a lot of people now know Scott is the guy that took on apple maps um just like just like siri was going to be his baby that that apple maps .

was kind of his his guy infamous for scheme, epic design and IOS.

I think that that's a after the fact assignment and and really easy way to say that was his little fief tum .

but history is written by the .

Victor's ban Scott. Actually I think he produced the the tony award winning broadway musical this year. Talk about quite different departure no, he was last year um that this is worth looking up actually because is totally crazy when I heard about IT 谁 so Scott， rest all was a producer of fun home broadway musical that follows the story of a lesbian cartoon is looking back on her childhood with a secretly gay father and so interesting to see after he leaves apple, total media silence, not doing anything else.

Then we find out this is what he's been up to and that they are really funny part. I remember, I think IT was totally coincidence. But IT was during the W W C D C.

Keynote that he waited that he think was like its first tweet, first tweet in a very long time. Um so excited to have produce the the tony award winning musical this year thanks to all the amazing people that work on and something like that. And I am taking this is unbelievable right .

in the middle keynote wall anyway.

Ah so the acquisition was kind of done by bicske tt forstall, and that kicked off of a long chain of things happening in apple acquisitions. Um theory you know as IT as IT sort of turns out looking back, there's a lot of really intense research that has gone on sense then in architecture, these kind of voice and and you know I guess for lack of about where AI systems and we see um a lot of them.

I not sure if if syria or not, but I know that, that google is in cortona, is architected and as a neural network and syria at the time of acquisition, the company that was syria was definitely not that. And I think it's important to start at this point going forward thinking about serious two things, no longer as the product that apple acquired, but as both an organization at apple that is responsible for dictation, for voice search, for a variety, those things and the product that is, is shipped on IOS devices that we now today know as theory that product is is. Of a ton of things all in one.

I mean, I think that um the impetus for apple to actually create this this group and to focus on shipping this product in every version of IOS going forward, that would not have happened without this acquisition. But the theoretical success that syria has stay as a product is attributed to so much more than that apple got extremely serious about hiring great people. Um they um they hired a senior director, now the senior director of syria, alexa a who is x microsoft research.

They made a ton of of acquisitions um including but not limited to topsy um no various technologies auto cat q pot set or vocal I Q pretty recently percept o and these things, particularly topsy, are really kind of the academic rigor around the the search and the um the methodologies that there is today. I think topsy topi was another two hundred million dollar acquisition that one ish yeah I think actually that one might be my yeah topsy is effectively the the backbone of how the search works within syria and how the the kind of deeply technical part of IT works. And I think a lot of really good people came came with topsy. Whether you look at the actual syria acquisition, um all three of those founders are gone yeah started viv I think is how is pronounced but effectively you are Better next time company yeah and you know they had a lot of people a trip from that acquisition top see a lot of those people state with the company and from talking to some friends that are kind in the no really, really taught people. And you know I gave you never talking earlier thought about kind of doing this this is a dull episode on on topsy and in the series company is that that sort of how important topsy is to um the product that series is today?

Yeah I think a couple really interesting notes of an husband mentioned fascinating that this acquisition has LED to the creation of this whole organization with an apple that um A I search uh and those types of that type of platform technology was so not in apple's DNA prior to the syrian acquisition.

Yeah, I truly believe that we wouldn't have this product shipped, if not for while we just unloaded a bunch of cash acquiring this thing. We got to be serious about IT.

And what doubly interesting about that is that the actual people at theory that applique like they're gone IT was acquiring this company and bringing this product in this feature into IOS. That was the first foundation of a platform that apple started building and all the great people that they've acquired and hired since then. And you can argue, I think, probably very justice stifling, so that google is still ahead of apple in a lot of these areas, A I search, voice search, speech recognition. But certainly, apple is not nearly as far behind as they would have been had they continued along the path they were before this accusation.

no. And I think that in kind of thinking about any acquisition, you can use the framework of builder by um what's you know if if you're thinking about IT before you make the acquisition, you're a leader of that company and you've decided that um this is something we need to pursue and it's going to cost us two hundred million dollars to buy or we could build. And I don't think that that is the case here. I don't think .

that apple could even have able to hire the really top people that they would have needed to in machine learning A I speech recognition. Yes, to make this happen.

Yeah I don't. It's interesting and there would have been a tall order and and still was. I mean, I think that even after they did the syrian acquisition, they had a long, long road ahead of them to turn that into the practice is today.

And the the question is sort of begs to me is have a different name and I would I would have started off in a different place. But what if they didn't acquire syria at all and they had just made all these other acquisitions and these other key higher because they have ve hired a lot of the really great people away from nuance. We've actually architected the whole kind of um speech recognition pipeline that they were licensing from nuance internally.

They've ve rewritten and thrown a way all the code that they've acquired from theory. So there's no theory people, there's no serious technology, merely a theory brand and basically what that original product is there. But a lot of the success of what theory the product in IOS is today is not attributed to what they actually acquire.

yeah. And it's interesting little bit of an aside bit on nuance. Most of the major mobile companies, mobile platform companies, microsoft, google, apple, I believe most of all, all of them have moved away from new on at this point.

Yeah, I think that's true. Got me some really upset account reps at nuance.

yeah. So I love the discussion we've been having in a way you we're sitting here at the end of twenty and fifteen talking about this. It's been almost six years since this acquisition happened.

We haven't really talked about theory, the product slash feature yet. Um and I think you know, I would argue as what a lot of people h IT really hasn't lived up to its promise. So no, I don't know that you think, but I I use theory for one thing.

setting alarms. I got I would love to see the histogram of this .

at apple because I think .

I didn't don't think syria has gotten that far. There two problems. One, I don't think they've got that far from actually being able to, you know, do things they are like actually learning, right? Like I know, have these very specific functions, much like the original theory, where I go, hey siri, look up the best restaurant restaurant around me or I mean like that. And the sort of second problem around that is if they have fixed that or they they do in the future kind to roll out something that's much more technically sophisticated, that's truly like a deep systems approach to search and an understanding and um you know all all these deeply technical things, how I supposed to know about IT because I think that like there are some of us that you know watch the W W C D C know that super cool but is a really sort of dangerous thing with um these voice based in interfaces that don't have a layout of all the possible functions in front your face that you can use. If IT falls on its face a couple times for you, you basically assume you can do that.

You and you definitely all into that uncanned valley and you just reject. And so I said, super interesting. We're sitting here at the end of twenty fifteen talking about this because I think it's non controversial to say syrias a product has been a failure.

All these like even basic basic stuff like, no, my wife's name is Jenny J E N N I E that her given name every time I talk to theory about my wife is a je N N Y and SHE has a different last name in the mission and change your name. Siri doesn't like figure that out is so annoying, super basic stuff. But we're sitting here right now.

You know amazon came out with the echo and alexa this year. They're investing heavily in that. Definitely, amazon believes that voice and voice interfaces are going to be a huge part of technology going forward as as google, as as apple. In a lot of ways. I think this the the full story on this acquisition hasn't been written yet because there's going to be so much more to come.

Yeah, there needs to be mean. The interesting thing, you know, we say this show is about technology acquisitions that actually went well. And if you look at kind of the we can do this this episode of this show because apple needed to do this, I mean it's it's effectively table stakes to have a um personal assistance baked into your mobile Operating system. They they IT would .

be embarrassed. As you're saying that I, as you're saying that I I had my my left hand twisted back and I accidentally activated syria on my apple watch.

How do you have? Hey, syrian.

No IT IT was holding the the .

digital around. That's your fault.

T but but it's so fundamentally like this needs to be a part of, especially as you move into watches and televisions and connected speakers and being able to say, hey, series here, a critical part of any platform yeah.

yeah it's interesting. And in try to think of examples of things that sii can't do IT, the thought exercise of IT is actually difficult because your mind is trapped in the things that you can do like i'm pulling up my phone thinking of like, you know. Hey, siri, i'm going to have time to go for a run tomorrow before work, based on when my first meeting is in the fact that I want to walk to work, not knowing what the weather will be right now.

Hi, then that time .

IT is a mispronounce of the hair because it's honecker like.

right.

there is a long way to go.

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Alright, so let's move in the next segment of the show where we categorize this acquisition. Um i'm not looking at the right now, but I think .

we've got we ve got people, technology, product, business line in other for me know our audience is craving disagreement here, but I just don't think well then what's your category?

So I think if you like didn't do your research, its technology and you think you're requiring the super academic. And I guess this is partly technology, and we've just come a long way since since syria was started. But I mean, what IT ultimately became for apple is a product because the sure is how don't have the people and they don't have the technology that IT was originally built on.

And the world is moved in a direction. And apple is, to their credit, really kept up with this and put some serious muscle behind this and hired some of the top people in the field to to build out the the direction of the technology is actually moving in. So i'm calling in a .

product acquisition boom. I'm disagreeing, all right. Maybe I didn't do my research. I think it's a technology acquisition. I mean, as we were just sing like syria as a product sucks yeah .

I didn't say they are quite a good one.

I am fair point.

yeah. I mean.

I think like we already talked about all of this, but but I think for me it's a technology acquisition because I don't view um theory as a product to A A socks. But I don't think IT is even really especially going forward will be a product of a feature. I think it's just going to be so fundamentally baked into the platform voice and voice interface and and the predictive assisting a parts of IT um that I think that is just going to be a fundamental technology piece is a fundamental technology piece and will be more so over time. And yes, that's not exactly what they acquired, but that was the kern nel of IT that .

y've built over time. Yeah 未来 i have no doubt that voice will be more central to the way that human beings compute in the future and interact with machines。 I don't think screen are going to go away. I think will become much less reliant on them and much more conversational with with machines.

But the question is, is apple doing this and building what they're doing today, actually moving in the right direction so they're gonna the ones to create that future? Or is IT going to be someone that fundamentally kind of takes a new approach to what is a computer? How do you interact with IT? Can you do IT all over voice and not be hampered with the legacy of lets try and tie this future of computing into the way that people interact with the screen?

Yeah, that's great point. I guess that's .

me cheating. And preemptively launching into technology trends. The next part of our show is what trends does this illustrate for you in technology right now? That's absolutely one. And every time I have someone talk to me about, I think that they are working on that more about a natural interface or screenless computing or thinking about the movie here, i've had by three conversations in the last few months with with different entrepreneurs working on this.

people at microsoft. There are so many A I companies right now, yes, doing everything from, just like we are in A I research company platform that is willing to be acquired by facebook or google or apple. I think I love that theme and is so true and technology like you can't bring old world thinking into the future. It's it's like the hundred ford analogy of a faster horse yeah .

and you know we eat these words of in ten years apples, the the leader in this category and everyone's in interacting with their their voiced to buy a sport. I don't know. It's hard for me to see theory today evolving into what I think is clearly the future of computing. Yes.

but I else I also I don't think screen are going away. I think visual interaction with computers ah IT is not onna stop and is only going to continue to rise with computing. But you don't always want to do that. Sometimes you want a voice space interaction like in the kitchen, which is the primary use case .

for the echo IT reminds me of a similar trend. So thinking about the fact that um you've got this massive Spike in tablet sales and so they came out for so many people. Um you the tablet is not as successful as the phone, but for so many people, the tablet is the computer that they actually needed.

And ever since personal computers came out, people than buying them, people have been using them for a variety purpose. But IT was really the device that we could build at the time that was over applied to a variety of use cases that were outside of the the specific thing that they were actually good at. And a perfect story at my grandma's house over thanksgiving.

Help and remove himself fer around. SHE needs to unplugged her computer because someone's going to be doing. They are going to be putting new carpet in that room.

They are moving into the other room. And I will, i'll plug IT back in, and we will set IT up in the other room for now. He goes, you don't need to have been on in a month.

Not like, what could he? I mean, SHE really does a lot on her computer. It's is well, well, she's very profession with her computer.

She's been fully reliant on her ipad and her iphone, and I didn't realized I may have been easing with. I actually don't think he does her her spread sheet on the ipad, but I think but he could SHE could SHE totally good. And it's just me kind of explaining the new, new put mechanism tour.

But for so many people, the point i'm getting at is, is that the computer was doing a lot of jobs, and I had a very specific job. And then when the tablet came out and revealed that the tablet is actually a Better thing to do, a lot of those jobs around consumption in around lightweighted email, things like that, then the computer was. So then people are actually using tablets, a Better thing for that purpose, for its intended purpose.

I think screens right now are over saturated, the same way that pcs were over saturated. We've got screens doing a lot of jobs. Screens don't need to be doing. And sure, screens will be doing things where there's A Y driving yeah great, great point. Have have you display of information um things where you need to reference multiple things in parallel and not just have a single track, things where you have model interfaces where you need to understand context with new context on top. But there's sure is a lot that does not need to be on a screen that we use screens for.

Yeah, another theme that i'd throw in that I think this solution rates is that consumer generally and specifically building great consumer products is really hard. I mean, I feel like serious as a classic example, that a lot of companies and products of a trap they fall into, which is, i've got this awesome technology. We can do these amazing things.

Look at these really cool, shiny demos, and then you get IT out in the real world with like edge cases and delivering actual values on a consistent basis, solving people's real problems, doing that without friction. And it's really, really hard to live up to those promises in the demo. And when you think about most consumer products, many or most consumer products that end up being really successful, they're really simple and it's very clear what their value is.

Um like airbnb, you know what? I've been on an airbnb k lately. My wife, my wife and I just signed up to be home soon the last six months and IT pays haler mortgage and that amazing and that's leg as a host.

That's what bnb does for me. And we get to meet these really cool people who are coming through. And we're traveling for the holidays to a whole bunch places to see family and worth staying in. I believe three different air bnb s this month.

So what you're getting as you you very much understand the intended purpose of that product.

absolutely. It's so simple. It's so gant and IT perfectly solves my problem. Sorry, I don't even know what it's supposed to do. IT looks cool. I watched the keynotes and i'm like, that's awesome and then I never use IT yeah I mean.

to take IT to another of sitting there are trying I want I have the new apple TV and I was looking for some videos on youtube. Lying there on the couch that night and it's ug is the worst to type into, just like one row of characters swiping around, trying to tap individual. It's like being on P.

S. Two again and I was using anyway. So i'm like, oh, wait here, this supposed be like a really conversational UI.

Are you theory? I like, hey siri, look for the disease on sorry, stand up on youtube our first said, said the disease on sorry, stand up and I brought up like movies with disease on sorry and they we're like theatrical allies and I was like, oh, I should Price specify i'm like, look up the disease and sorry, stand up on youtube exact same research results I was like, h my god, it's not even plan into youtube and like, every time I have this brilliant idea weren't like I should use theory for that IT doesn't really work yeah and I think war weirdos like where tech people I and the kind of person that walked down the street and its raining so i'm not typing on my phone and what do I do? I like pull down syria and i'm like theory text back blab .

a ba ba ba yeah because you're not worried about the social stigma like talking to and i'm fine with that.

but I fully recognized that like other people aren't doing that. And I had I have to imagine if you could see the numbers at apple of the people that are actually like using syria on an early year daily base is polite.

very disappointing. I'm curious, as you're listening to this, if you disagree with us, you should totally let us know that you use theory and what you use IT for.

Got i'd like to know I would love to know at gilbert, at D J. Robert, at acquired F M.

Find us. Yeah um the other thing I I D on that before before we move on this is also building consumer companies, consumer products super hard. Um this is one of the reason why as bc, we really focus when we're looking at consumer companies on cohorn retention data because just like straight of acquisition data, uh, user acquisition data isn't not like the question is our people coming back, you know months after month after month, day after day after day, are they continuing to see value from your products? And it's really hard.

Yeah I wonder. So in february twenty fifteen one of the founders of theory um was was remarking in an interview to tech lunch that more than two hundred million people use IT monthly and more than one hundred million people use IT every day.

Says one in five people with accessory actually are a daily active user was a little shocking like I wonder how why the preview of that is and I also wonder, I mean, every single person out there is going to laugh, but like you're sitting in a meeting, you hold the button IT goes into a remote, your super embarrass. I can't tell how many times today I accidentally OpenAI. I mean, i'm just glad they turned off the little do do so that I don't look to get totally ity at meanings that wants to .

be the number one use case for syria. Was that accidental embarrassing meeting? deduct? Alright, so we wrapped this .

one up in yes. So I think it's time to give me a Green um you know I think that if they didn't do this, apple might not have moved in this direction and might have tried to follow after google and microsoft did IT. I don't think it's really in their DNA to start this without going on an acquisition spring to start acquiring a lot of talent, hiring people from other companies um these days that sort of table stakes to have IT. But apple definitely does not sell a single like one single more iphone because IT has theory versus IT doesn't. I bet they saw .

a lot more iphone for us is because I had serious once once. I don't think .

anything they're doing to theory now sell ls a single additional iphone, agree? Or when they add theory to another market, I think there's an interesting thing like maybe we'll see in china um maybe we'll see IT pick up a little bit since in china is so much more difficult type and it's so much easier to you. Yeah, it's got to be much nice.

However, there if if actually you ve had an experience um as chinese person or someone who has used the iphone in china would love to get your feedback on that too. Yeah but no, I think to this point it's hard to point to arai other than that was something they sorted needed to do long term. And I don't know that actually acquiring the company theory was the best way to do IT. I'm to give this one to see.

yes. So I think this acquisition was just like so classically apple or at least apple of the last few years, spend south of five hundred million dollars to acquire a technology company, uh, that you then use to build into part of your platform h and your whole product platform. I'm thinking about authentick and the fingerprint great .

acquisition .

acquisition. We should do that in the future. The company on blanking, on the name that they bought.

that was the mi conductor company.

Pi, yeah. P PMI.

God, has that paid dividends? That yeah, there I mean, there are they the highest yield I think that the highest yids producing ARM chip manufacturer in the world now, and not to mention .

like now apple designs their own chips yeah.

And the fact that they can do their own system on a ship and the fact that they tied directly into their opening system, they're able to do things like touch I, D, where they have that secure enclave that is separately in the process. And I can do P, M.

I do so much good. yeah. But and when you stack around those like, unfortunately, serious falls pretty far down the list. So um I think .

I give IT .

A I will give you A B because I think IT is i'm given to be because future importance of voice and A I is going to be huge for apple. And if they had done this, if they hand started when they did, there is just like google and facebook and and maybe even microsoft would be so far beyond them at this point they could never catch up no matter how much they would spend, who they would buy yeah all the way to saw a start the other day that like maps is getting Better and getting more usage.

But yes, getting more usage is ships with the O. S.

Well, I haven't tried IT in a while.

I didn't had a bad experience. I keep having its getting Better though.

So but we still don't use IT the same with theory, right? B for me.

be for you, see for me, think that's what we got.

That's all we get. Happy holidays, everybody. We will see you .

building .

the site .

of the listener's. I'm sorry, but i'm afraid I can answer that easy you with you, easy you, who we get true.

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