cover of episode Elif Shafak on the power of storytelling, freedom of expression and the global water crisis

Elif Shafak on the power of storytelling, freedom of expression and the global water crisis

2024/8/21
logo of podcast A Podcast of One's Own with Julia Gillard

A Podcast of One's Own with Julia Gillard

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Julia: 全球水危机、性别暴力和种族不平等是相互关联的,缺水会导致女性需要走更远的路去取水,从而增加她们遭受性别暴力的风险。 Elif Shafak: 我的母亲和祖母对我的生活和写作有很大影响。我母亲代表理性与书面文化,祖母代表传统与口头文化。我的作品试图桥接这两个世界。从小我就意识到男女待遇的不同,父权制不仅使女性痛苦,也限制了男性的自由。我感到自己是局外人,部分原因是我的父母离异,父亲缺席,让我对身份认同和归属感产生疑问。我认为身份认同是流动的,而非静态的,我拥有多种身份认同,并认为自己同时属于土耳其、欧洲、世界等多个地方。我童年时期学习阅读和书写遇到困难,但我认为土耳其语中一个不发音的字母“G”帮助我克服了困难。从小我就喜欢写作,但我最初写作并非为了成为小说家,而是为了满足对故事的渴望,并通过虚构故事探索不同的视角和人生可能性。我选择学习国际关系和政治学,一部分原因是为了谋生,但写作始终是我最优先的事情。我22岁出版了第一本小说,我使用的语言风格在当时引起了一些关注,我认为语言应该包容各种词汇,如同英语一样。我选择用英语写作是为了获得更多的自由和表达空间,我认为土耳其语更适合表达忧郁和渴望,而英语更适合表达幽默和讽刺。我因小说《伊斯坦布尔的私生子》中涉及亚美尼亚种族屠杀而被指控,这段经历让我感到不安。我分享了产后抑郁的经历,并认为女性应该坦诚面对自己的情绪,并寻求帮助,同时我也强调了女性内部的团结和“内在民主”的重要性。我在文章《如何在分裂时代保持理智》中探讨了焦虑和愤怒等情绪,并认为将负面情绪转化为积极的创造性表达很重要。我认为作家没有固定的写作时间表,阅读是我的日常习惯,我鼓励人们广泛阅读,并认为小说包含了生活的方方面面。我对新书即将出版感到既兴奋又焦虑,并强调了文学节和文化空间对社会对话的重要性。我对美国图书馆的书籍禁令表示担忧,认为这不利于儿童的全面发展。我的新书《天上的河流》以水为主题,讲述了跨越世纪和大陆的多个故事,这些故事通过一滴水连接在一起。我在小说中探讨了博物馆、殖民主义和遗忘的关系。我认为需要讨论博物馆藏品的历史和所有权问题,并关注少数群体的视角。我的小说也关注了雅兹迪人遭受的种族灭绝和奴役,并对社会麻木和沉默表示担忧。我的小说中也讲述了一位水科学家的故事,我借此探讨了水资源、气候变化和环境问题。我认为水资源问题与性别暴力、贫困和政治极端主义等问题相互关联。我认为父权制的力量在于其被内化和正常化,女性需要互相赋权,并与LGBTQ+群体团结起来,共同对抗父权制。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why is the global water crisis particularly critical for the safety of women and girls?

Women are often the primary water carriers in many parts of the world. When fresh water is scarce, women must walk longer distances to fetch water, increasing their exposure to gender-based violence. The water crisis is interconnected with issues like gender violence and racial inequality, making it a multifaceted challenge that disproportionately affects women and girls.

How did Elif Shafak's grandmother influence her mother's life and, subsequently, Elif's upbringing?

Elif Shafak's grandmother played a pivotal role by insisting that her daughter, Elif's mother, return to university to complete her education after a divorce. This decision not only empowered Elif's mother to pursue a career in the foreign ministry but also shaped Elif's upbringing, instilling in her a love for both written and oral culture. This act of solidarity between women had a generational impact, influencing Elif's values and her approach to storytelling.

What challenges did Elif Shafak face as a left-handed child in Turkey, and how did it affect her early education?

Elif Shafak, being left-handed, faced significant challenges in her early education in Turkey, where left-handedness was stigmatized and associated with negativity. Her teacher forced her to use her right hand, which made writing difficult for her. She struggled to hold a pencil properly and was one of the last students to earn a red ribbon for reading and writing. This experience left a lasting impact, and to this day, she prefers writing with a keyboard rather than a pen.

Why did Elif Shafak start writing in English, and how does she describe her relationship with the Turkish and English languages?

Elif Shafak began writing in English as a way to gain cognitive distance and a sense of freedom, especially given the challenges of being a novelist in Turkey, where freedom of expression is often restricted. She describes her connection to Turkish as emotional, ideal for expressing melancholy and longing, while her relationship with English is more intellectual, better suited for humor, irony, and satire. She values both languages and sees them as complementary in her work.

What was the significance of the silent 'G' in the Turkish alphabet for Elif Shafak's early learning?

The silent 'G' in the Turkish alphabet, a letter with a squiggle on top, played a crucial role in Elif Shafak's early learning. She connected with this letter, which she saw as an introvert, and it helped her bridge the gap with the rest of the alphabet. This connection eventually enabled her to learn to write with her right hand, despite her natural left-handedness, and earn the red ribbon for reading and writing in school.

How does Elif Shafak view the role of women in preserving cultural memory, particularly in the context of the Yazidi genocide?

Elif Shafak emphasizes that women are not only water carriers but also memory keepers in many cultures. In the context of the Yazidi genocide, she highlights how the elderly, who are often women, are the custodians of oral traditions and collective memory. The deliberate targeting of the elderly by ISIS was an attempt to erase the Yazidi cultural identity, as their history is transmitted orally rather than through written records. This underscores the critical role women play in preserving cultural heritage.

What is the central theme of Elif Shafak's novel 'There Are Rivers in the Sky,' and how does it connect to the global water crisis?

The central theme of 'There Are Rivers in the Sky' is water, symbolized by a single raindrop that travels across centuries, cultures, and continents. The novel weaves together stories of three characters connected by water, exploring themes of memory, colonialism, and environmental degradation. Shafak uses the narrative to highlight the global water crisis, emphasizing how water scarcity disproportionately affects women and exacerbates issues like gender violence and inequality.

Why does Elif Shafak believe that patriarchy is most dangerous when it becomes normalized and internalized?

Elif Shafak argues that patriarchy is most dangerous when it is normalized and absorbed to the point where it becomes an unconscious part of how women view themselves and each other. This internalized patriarchy leads women to judge themselves through a patriarchal lens, perpetuating division and inequality. She stresses the importance of empowering women and fostering solidarity to challenge and dismantle these ingrained norms.

How does Elif Shafak describe the impact of postpartum depression on her writing, particularly in her book 'Black Milk'?

Elif Shafak's experience with postpartum depression deeply influenced her book 'Black Milk,' where she explores the competing identities and internal conflicts women face, especially in motherhood. She uses humor and self-reflection to address the emotional struggles of motherhood, challenging the romanticized view of parenting. The book emerged from her realization that it's okay to ask for help and that depression, while overwhelming, is a temporary season in life.

What does Elif Shafak mean by 'inner democracy,' and why does she consider it important?

Elif Shafak uses the term 'inner democracy' to describe the internal balance between the multiple, often conflicting voices and identities within a person. She believes it's essential to acknowledge and embrace these diverse aspects of oneself, rather than suppressing them. This concept is particularly relevant for women, who often face societal pressures to conform to specific roles. Inner democracy allows for self-acceptance and the freedom to choose different paths without judgment.

Shownotes Transcript

Elif Shafak is a best selling author, a political scientist and an advocate for women’s rights, LGBTQ+ rights and freedom of expression.

In this episode Julia and Elif journey on a candid and deep conversation about Elif’s childhood in Turkey, what drew her to writing, and the lengths she’s had to go to keep telling the stories of those who are often silenced.

They also delve into Elif’s spectacular new novel *There are Rivers in the Sky, *and discuss why tackling the world’s water crisis is critical for the safety of women and girls.

Show notes:

Elif’s new novel There are Rivers in the Sky is published by Penguin and is available at all good book stores.

To learn more about Elif and her work go to https://www.elifsafak.com.tr/home Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy) for more information.