2.5 Admins 223: Google Juice Abuse
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To the half admin, epsom, two, two, three. I'm jr. I'm jim and i'm on and he were again. And before getting started, you've got another plug. Allen.

introducing open cell fs, faster dupe. yeah. So this is enjoyed a bunch of work that Clair did that's coming out as part of open S S S S two three, which basic loves us to replace the old dude that had all the performance problems with a new version called festive be. And so we had jim take IT for a spin and write up the results he saw.

And the short version is, uh, legacy deduct was really never worth using and fast deduct won't be worth using for a lot of the folks who desperately want IT, but for some folks, that absolutely will be which is exciting. And go take a look yeah .

they can to show us, as usual, technics to shut up their bare metal service in twenty .

twenty six yeah so as assessment, you wonder what he feels like to find out that, oh, your cloud provider is shutting down. Summer twenty twenty six is not that soon. But at the same time, once they announced that, you know that service is going to continue to get worse and worse, they're definitely not getting any newer hardware between now and when they shut down.

And so that's going to be a downhill ride. So well, you do have more than a year to move your workload. You probably going to have to start making plans lots singer than that.

That does seem like a reasonable amount of warning, though.

That's the date where they're going to turn the lights out. It's going to turn pretty run down probably before that.

And also, there is a big difference in what seems reasonable when you've got A V, M or two at a service doing something important to universe s, when you have built infrastructure demanding entire clusters of the ms. All Operating together, and that which you need to migrate with little over year work with.

I would also be concerned because by and large, the the type of folks for customers of packet that net and the equinox bear metal, I would say what they are calling IT this week, but they are calling IT soon to be closed anyway. Those looks tend to be more demanding users. They're not just looking for like, okay, yes, IT booted, I can shell into IT.

They're looking for sustained performance levels. They're looking for a reliability. And it's a little scarier replacing a lot of infrastructure on that type of provider, especially when it's a forced relocation because the whole thing is shattering its doors. So that means lots of people are going to be looking to migrate lots of these services from echo ics to, you know, your soft layer or whoever they went up going to. And personally, if that was me, I would also have concerns that of like on boarding and scaling oes at some of those other providers that are suddenly having to take these giant you know gloves of new incoming customers from the the shuttle service.

Yeah, I would expect you know there aren't that many services that are actually giving you full bare metal. Amazon has something, but it's not quite the same, uh, level. Bare metal.

And you, with all of them, I dwt any of them, could scale up to take up all over all of equalizes customers all at once. And you know what you burn by one service you might be started thinking about, well, we don't want to go to just one other service to replace IT. We're going to rearchitects everything to dispute IT between a couple of providers or something and then you a whole host of different problems.

And you know, if you were using equines, you probably built all your infrastructure around using their aps, able to stand up new machines when you need to them and so on. And all of that is going to be different at whatever provider you end up going to. And so IT is more than just replacing the hosting IT is this is specialist hosting that's not necessarily readily available of the places.

And then there's all the integration. And so I like, you know, when we used economy, that was really nice because we used net boot out X, Y, Z, and we can easily fire up our custom images and get things going with the easily and you got full access to the i've your mind, including like S S H serial service. And if the other providers don't have that, you might not be able to get the same capabilities that you had before.

This is why I actually try to avoid all that stuff. You know, whatever big provider you go to, even the consumer focused ones, linos and your digital tions or whatever. Who would probably brize, let me saying consumer focus, but I think we all know what I mean in here.

They offer propriety, intern A P, S. As well. And I avoid the crap out of them because I want to make sure I can migrate my stuff anywhere.

IT needs to go my own personal friendly message to anybody who has built large infrastructure, depending on anybody's propriety. Aps, when those A P. S. Disappear out from under you is, oh, that's so difficult, i'm sorry. But keep in mind, Nelson months also has a message for .

a unit dealing tells users to trash old VPN routers of a bug too dangerous to identify yet.

So there's a new set of ulnar abilities. So at this point they don't even have cv e numbers yet. But IT turns out dealing is saying all the devices affected by this are already past the end of life.

You should just throw them away and buy something new. We are not going to fix this. There is no new reform or coming your shit at a luck.

And that, to be clear, for some of these devices, the end of life only occurred in may two thousand and twenty four, but none of these devices were spring chicken s in terms of their specifications. This is also an argument for, you know, pay attention to what you're buying. Don't assume that just because the shrinking rap is stone on a box in the store that you're actually buying a vegan new model of a thing.

The oldest of these writers that has been discontinued and will not be receiving security fix is so old IT literally has ten one hundred wired ether net ports and it's still talking about the eight two eleven b and eight two seven g fallbacks behind its eight, two, eleven and wifi. The newest appearing of these devices was at least to gig a bit. But again, the built in wifi was only eighty two eleven in, not A C, not A X.

You know, the whole concept of wifi, four, five, six was not a twinkle in anybody's. So be careful about buying the cheapest possible rider you can find from whatever third, dear winter you can find. And not caring about anything other than cost, you really should be making an effort to be certain that as certain as you can, the harbor your buying is a vegal modern design.

Yeah, IT keeps spring up. The thing we talked about before with the kind of food nutrition type levels on these type of devices, it's like what is a reasonable amount of time for the vendor to have to support this and fix security vulnerabilities. In this case, this seems like this device is so old that it's legitimate for the vendor to say, no, you shouldn't still be using that.

But at the same time, we seen other vendors tried to new poll support after a year or two. At least these ones are mostly five to ten years old. And these devices have quite the bad track record, the security. They've had a lot of vulnerable ties in the past. Those got patched by the end of the road was earlier this year.

I found interesting in this register article that they quoted dealing as saying dealing U. S. Is prohibited to provide support for these end of life products. If you're outside of the U. S, please contact your regional giving office. Many devices on this list have available third party open firm where dealing does not support open from where, which voice any warranty and is solved the responsible of the devices owner. So they kind of saying like just going find someone in the internet.

I don't think that's they're saying, joe. I think that dealing is just well aware. There are a lot of people by their devices explicitly with plans to refresh them with you know tomato or open work or or what have you and deal link is just throwing out ahead of everything else.

Look, we're not supporting you if that's what you've got, period as well. The part about distinguishing between the U. S.

And the rest of the world, I suspect the reasoning behind that is, and you should be well aware this, there are other parts the world that have considerably more robust consumer protection laws in the united states does. And they might not be able to just tell somebody in the E. U.

To pack sand if they just bought one of these routers, you know, a year or two ago. Now this is speculation on my part, but I can't think of any other reason why they would be associating dealing U. S.

And saying dealing us isn't allowed to provide support, while implying that IT was possible, that people in the other parts the world might still be able to. I think they're just forced to. In Better part.

the world prohibited is such a strange choice of words, though IT is a strange choice of words. And the other part that I saw the mention of sounds like, you know, if your I S P provided this device, call them, maybe they're going to do something about or maybe they're pay to prohibited .

isn't a strange choice of words at all if it's coming from the legal department, which is exactly what i'm speculating.

you've prohibited suggests legally prevented, not by corporate policy. No.

I know is I think it's IT could be corporate policy prohibits from supporting you because that would mean we take some liability for this device and we are very explicitly putting that off. And like, no, it's your problem if you still use IT, right?

I think he just comes down the lawyer speaking the way and once the legal got involved, they are like a look, you cannot and it's not going to and lawyers don't really speak in like friendly terms of what you should or shouldn't do. They speak in terms of no, you can or yes, you absolutely must shall not.

you shall .

not flash. It's not .

quite the same as rfc where those specific crazes have specific meetings. English is terrible.

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Have you noticed how frequently you go to search for something on google and you find up with, like these weird little nonsense garbage reviews hosted at forbes of all places, and IT might not necessarily be shopping for electronics. You might be shopping for something like T. H.

C. game's. And find a list of the best ones to buy at forbes.

Noted business publication forbes, yeah. So obviously .

you ve noted business publication forms once to tell me the proper T, H, C gum to purchase and just, I should pay attention any, right? This is the kind of thing that we're talking about. Google cracking down on form is not the only one, but there the one that has been the most visible to me personally, at least a lot of these large, very well established with a ton of google.

You have realized that you, I can host relatively high margin nonsense for, like the Better word, and take advantage of all the google juice that i've built off of the other things that i'm doing on this domain. And I can suddenly become the king of CBD gummy. He recommendations that know very little legging expense, but that's not good for consumers. Uh, there is nothing about forbes that magically makes IT the best place to get your weed rex from. So google is trying to do something to limit the scope of this kind of the lack of a less awful term google juice abuse yeah kind of right with people .

that don't understand that just because this for sale on amazon doesn't mean it's legit. A lot of these sites are quote marketplaces, including forbes calls their thing there, marketplace or adviser service and is basically, yeah, we have this space where people come to and will let you put your craft for sale here and and we ll take a cut kind of thing.

Imagine in a slightly different universe where zokora could not decided to closed off facebook and try to make all of the content is non indexed ble from the outside is IT possibly could. And every time you went to buy anything, you're just waiting through mountains of facebook marketplace nonsense. Maybe we had to go back and say kinder things about the r preventing google from getting inside of facebook.

Maybe he did just that one. I'm not saying we have to like a guy, but maybe just the one time he did a solve. solid.

The irony of this, of course, is that is not really going to improve google search. They're already run IT with all the AI bulls shit.

Well, not just said, it's like google just wants to take the money from these C, B, D, recommending people as adsense instead .

of going to forms .

exactly cable companies and trumps fcc chair, agree data caps are good for you.

Where is the S, C C last month voted three to tude to open a formal inquiry into how bribes and data caps affect consumers and whether the commission has the authority to regulate how internet service writers impose such caps.

You have, things have changed, and things have changed.

By time they go to do that, they won't be the same head of the F, C. C. So have to .

see data caps enable innovative plans at lower monthly rates. They said it's .

good for consumers. Yeah.

I always struggle with this issue when people talk about data caps because most people just act like everything is free and everybody can create their line all day long. IT doesn't cost anything extra. And that's simply not the case that the realities of internet service provision ing is that the physical lines are always oversubscribed.

That's the way IT works. You don't say, well, I have you know this million customers, each of which have symmetrical gig bit. Therefore, I have to have that many million gig bits worth have been with available.

That's not how that works. You over substance be your lines and you have a good understanding of like what percentage you can also subscribe them and what level of of service quality your users expect. You know whether they will tolerate a slowdown during peak hours, you know based on like what they're paying you and what your reputation is.

You can't massage all this until you come up with A A final product that you with. And so i'm not one of these folks to say a data cap is always evil. There should be no such thing.

My issue is they never seem to actually make the damn cost go any lower. When you look at one service that's unlimited in another service that has some horribly restrictive like you know fifteen eg data cap on a similar plan, you usually see almost the same Price between the two. When you do see Price differentiation is usually because after they've started with the data cats, they raise the pricing only thing. But again, if if they were actually offering cheaper, high quality plans with a cap on them and disclosing all that stuff up front, i'd be good. The problem is they're not they don't and that's not why they want data caps.

Yeah usually it's just a way to charge people more to have more than with. But the thing that gets me the most is that these dick aps never actually solve the problem. To solve the problem, you would have to have kind of like a time of use, things like we have for electricity, where you're trying to disincentivize people to use the international net during prime time when the internet saturated.

Yes, reward me from my overnight goblin like browser habits, please.

One provider, I had basically had certain hours where your data look like your usage didn't count against your data cat. So the data of only applied for peak time. And if you used outside of that, then your usage didn't count against your data cap. And that if people understood IT and used, that would have meant they had less at a congestion at those peak times.

right on torching my linux issues in the middle the night. Then.

precisely to the point where most touring plans have some concept of, you can set different feeding limits for different time.

The day I already was touring most of million IOS overnight because that was the most common way to do IT. You know, you set them all up in a batch where you go to bed, you wake up next morning, the fresh distributions, but they .

actually we Normally see from both of these places even but like cell phone networks as well, they are never actually seeming to try to push people to change their have its or to use the net at a specific time. They are just a way to charge you more money for going over a magic limit that they made up.

Forgive my ignorance as european in here, but in north amErica is IT common for proper wired home internet to have data caps.

Then IT is not. It's almost unheard of IT. It's not entirely unheard of. I've seen red on a couple of D, S, L plans, typically from smaller providers. But no, for the most part, you you really only see that would sell in our plans .

for wired providers. IT was a thing a number of years ago for quite a while. But then when there was enough competition, especially when we had the wholesale market for internet, a kind of went away and stop being as much of a thing.

On the other end, if you would like to see a data cap on a wired plane, just A V, P, S in any data center anywhere or metal server or cocoa server, and you will very quickly discover very restrictive cabs that are a extremely expensive when you break. But for for consumer internet, uh, in north america, in my experiences is again, not unheard of. Like I saw conchas do IT back the day.

I never saw time when a cable do that or you know then they became spectrum. I've never seen that on that side, but i've same time cast do IT. I think i've heard of verizon doing IT, but I haven't like directly seen IT from them.

But again, fairly uncommon. Most people here aren't dealing with that. If you've got proper wired dinner that what about .

cellphone plans? And because here it's not unheard of to get unlimited, but you have to pay top dollar for that. It's very common to have you you just pay for how much day to get like you you get five gig bites with this plan or twenty with this one. And unlimited is relatively unusual.

Providers here are generally um the unlimited are there qazi unlimited? There is still a data cap. The difference is that when you hit the data cap, rather than entirely cutting you off or throwing you down to the point where it's almost entirely unusable, if you have one of the quote, unlimited unquote data plans, you get added back in. But like all of your pacts are the absolute bottom of the priority. Q so if you live in an area where there actually is excess capacity, then the unlimited plan will probably work very well for you, and you may not even notice, slow down. On the other hand, if you live in a very tightly packed urban metro area, you may discover the unlimited plan is worse for you than some of the capped plans because they might start threading ly earlier than win the cap, hit on on the more expensive cap plans and once they start trying you, it's your left with just whatever they feel like giving you, they're absolutely no guarantees once you're over that cap and on to the throat portion of your quote, unlimited plan.

And the single, especially in was mentioning if you're out of VP provider, if there's one that offers them that need to be with expects IT to be contended all the time because everybody who wants unlike what that is using that one and they're just, you know, we only have this much five where just letting everybody free for all IT.

That's where the seed boxes .

live for all those linux.

I sometimes you need to demo ad your linux I S so you know in a different country, and then demote from there to your house for reasons.

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We're really do appreciate that if you want to join, those people can go to two to five abundant stock comment flash support and remember that the various amounts on patron, you can get an advert free R S S feed of either just this show or all the shows in the lightning linux family. And if you want to send any questions for german or your feedback, you can email show a to five aben stock m israel wise, I have a linux test stop at home that serves member shares to windows currents on A M D RAID for discovery. Currently there are four W D red desks for fifteen one hundred R P M. How dumb of an idea is IT just art replacing one discount of time with seventy two hundred R P M next grade her desk is IT a problem to mix hard desk vendors.

It's not a dumb idea at all. And no, it's not a problem mixing vendors. It's also not a problem mixing spinal speeds. In general, year array is going to perform as though roughly as though we were composed entirely of the slowest drive in the array.

So you shouldn't expect to get immediate speed improvements out of replacing you're fifty nine hundred rpm drives with twenty two hundred rpm drives. And honestly, you're probably not gonna tice much of a speed improvement from that. Even with all of them replaced, it's still rust.

But no, in the meantime, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. That's that's the right way to go about IT. You're place some more to time until they are replaced. As far as sizes, those are also find a mix. Uh, so long as the replacements are larger, then the the ones that you had originally, then you just won't have access to me that additional space until, again, you've replaced all of the smaller drives, at which point you can expand the array into the additional space that has become available.

Simon writes a question about set of fess. Say, I have a razi one with three ten terabyte drives and replace one desk with, say, a fourteen terribles drive. Will the pool consume the whole desk? Or can I still use the spare for terrible tes for something else non redundant? I suppose I can make a partition table and just assign a ten Terry partition to the poll and give for her by in another. What would you do? Not that basically.

yeah. So yeah, if you replace one of your ten terrible, this with the fourteen terrible desk, giving you the whole desk, then set, F, S, will use the first ten, terrified and kind of ignore the rest until you eventually replace the other, tend to by desks. And then I will keep reaching up every time the smallest is can the rate goes up? IT will expose that additional space across that rates, that one.

And so you could do the partition thing and give that ten terribles to the existing ray and have the other four leftover. First thing is, obviously, if it's a fourteen terrible drive, you don't actually have ten plus four terribles of usable space, but you believe that math to you separately. But in general, I wouldn't recommend doing that because what do you really have to put on that extra four terribles if you need four terribles more space than maybe you should just replace all three of your ten her by desk with fourteen her by this and actually have that additional space and have to be redundant because just trying to use IT is not going to help. And I think because Jimmy answered this email privately, anytime you trying to use that extra for terrific partition, you're going to be slowing down your main .

array and vice versa.

Yeah, vice versa. And so you're make them compete a performance all the time. And because like jim ja said in the previous question, whenever you have any kind of rate away, your this are generally going to act like the lowest is in the array.

So even though that fourteen year by disk is probably faster than the tens, as soon as you have a second workload on IT in that other partition is now probably going to be the slowest and going to drag all the this down. And so as part of your upgrade, you're going to have worse performance if you're also using the disco something else. So your best bet is to just use IT as a replacement for the entire by disk and everything will be fine.

And in the future, when you replace the other small dish with bigger ones, you will get the extra space. I am assuming the reason why you bought a fourteen terribly is because a Better costa terribly than buying a ten. At this point.

there will be a certain segment of folks who are like, I don't really care about the performance part. Performance part is fine. I just need a bunch of space to put stuff on. I don't care about speed, which is valid.

However, if you do what you're talking about doing and you partition off, one drive is larger than the other drive and you make the smaller partition into a place where you can put some other stuff and that's not redone and all of the other is redundant, maybe you don't back that up the same way you did the other one because the other one is Z, F, S. And this is the not zf s for different pool like you're creating a maintenance nightmare for yourself at some point in the future. You're not only going to need to replaces other two drivers, you going to need place that one.

And when you replace that one, you not only have to deal with like a really silvering the Z F S part of IT into whatever pool is a part of now, you also have to remember to deal with whatever this stuff is on the other partition. And this kind of thing gets out a hand quicker than you think. Because if you do IT once, you're going going to do IT again in a couple years and you're going to IT again, you're again.

And then at some point you're just going to have this undocumented sprawlin nightmare that you only remember where all the things are anymore, like OK. I know where, you know, slash this one and slash this three amounted on my system, but i've kind of forgotten which physical hard drive one of them lives on. And like, then you have to puzzle that out.

Don't put yourself through that. They are the thing that I will mention though, about the partitioning. There can be very good reasons to manually partitioning drives and give the us part of them.

I actually do that with the majority of my F S installations because i'm not doing root Z F S. I am booting from E X T, small E X T four partitions, usually ext four on N D ID. So i'll reserve about a hundred giggs off the top of each one of my drives.

I'll put an md rate, one of, you know, my very minimal root Operating system there. And in the rest of IT I feed the fs is one large partition. Beyond that, when we talk about feeding the whole drive to C F S, this is one of the things that I don't see anywhere near as many people understanding as I wish.

Understood this. There actually is no such thing as Z F S getting fed the whole disk. If you just add the entire bare device name when you do a zippo ad or zip, create command.

What Z F S actually does is immediately partition that you get a partition one, a partition five and a partition nine. And the Z F S data goes in the big partition in the middle, the partition nine stuck on the end. It's it's actually intended to reserve a little bit space.

So you've got like a hacky way to deal with IT. If you wind up trying to result in a slightly smaller drive from a different winter or a different model number, that's theoretically ten terabytes or you're already ten terabytes, but it's a slightly smaller. And thereby, it's maybe if you get rid of that no partition, nine buffon, the end.

Maybe that'll be enough to allow you to mix those two ventures drive sizes. But no matter what you do, you are always using the F, S with a partition table. No.

so exactly. I've never heard of this partition. Five is just one in nine that i've seen. And it's different of these salaries or free B, S, D, than reviews linux. I'm previously, you can do the code dangerously dedicated to have the whole desk is set of us with no partition table at all. Now most times on previous d IT does get a partition table manually from the Operating system first because you need a place to put your boot code, but it's a little bit different all over. And it's something i'm looking at trying to get Z F S to common ize because IT be nice if zz F S just made the petition table for you and did IT the same way on every Operating system instead of what he does today.

Jonas rights, i'm wondering what's your opinion on scaling a fleet of free B, S, T. Hosts with jails? I found pot have a no mad driver, and that looks interesting. But is IT really necessary? Or would you say managing a flat with ancient behind a low baLance that is sufficient?

So IT depends what you're trying to do. So no matter was called the cluster schedule and basically, it's about I have a bunch of fbs d hosts. I needed to deploy this new jail.

I don't want to pick which host IT is. I want to class schedule to decide which machine has the most resources and should take this workload. And so IT is kind of along the same lines, is like cutting etes.

IT is my infrastructure just says we need this jail somewhere and have IT go and pick which machine is the best place to put IT on and be able to possibly move IT after and so on. So if you just to play uh a fleet of previously hosts and then want the software to figure out which worker goes where, then using no bads is uh a great way to do that. If you want to know a little bit more able how to get started with IT, clara actually has an article on doing plus of revisions ing using no man pot on prevs D. So if you want to kind of see what IT takes to get started and actually use no mad d and pop the way they were meant to be used together, then check out the article .

right where we're Better get out of here. Then remember show at two to five administer. If you want to send any questions on your feedback, you can find me a just stock com slash meter done.

You can find me at mrs. M.

and i'm at alan. Jude will see next week.