Loyalty or Leverage? How to Use Another Job Offer to Negotiate Your Salary
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Reston A. Welcome back to the rich girl. Round up a weekly discussion of the money with Kitty show. I am kaya ti. Tsan, and on monday days, my executive producer, hanna and I use this segment to talk through listener questions, money stories and more right after a quick break. You want a home soon, but you also want kids someday.

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Before we get into IT, this weeks upcoming main episode is about money anxiety, so fun, and how sometimes, paradoxically, you'll actually have more money anxiety. You earn more. I even met with a therapist and interviewed this person who works exclusively with ultra high net worth clients to understand what like unique patterns, a company, excessive wealth.

And I think the parallels between both his patients and just like the everyday person who is accumulating in commonwealth that have rate that they might be unprepared for are illuminating. But okay, onto the round up, hanna. What are we talking about today?

So this week question came from rich girl Kelly ask. He said, quote, do you have any resources for using a job offer to leverage more money in your current position? This is a thing.

Has anyone successfully pulled this off without pissing off superior, regardless of the income, I have a potential offer coming in for upwards of fifty percent more. Here you then what i'm currently making in my position, job tittle, skills and experience are virtually the same. I like where I currently work, but I know that i'm underpaid and I want to stay where m APP.

But loyalty doesn't pay the bills. As you already know, I already have a four page review of one worth this mount, which I will use, and constructions with the offer once I receive IT. So we often talk about getting a higher income.

As one of the lives in our control on this show. This felt really worthwhile to pair with this weeks topic. So I start.

well, I personally love this approach because I think .

at doing out at .

katty IT acts is like a force simplified of the issue. So Kelly mentioned that you know, he has this like four page document where she's outlined all the reasons that he is worth the extra money, which obviously is great. But as soon as you have in another offer from an outside source is like you kind of don't even have to build the complicated case anymore because you just have proof that you deserve to be paid more. So it's like a little bit like a corporate equivalent of a thinly veiled threat, which I think is fun.

Has this ever happened to you?

IT has. But in my case, the jump from my current company at my old employer to the new offer that I had gotten was so high that the former company, lake, offered to buy me a little bit, but I was kind of ready to move on. So I didn't feel all that incentivised.

Just say, although I will say I recently heard a funny money story in the wild from a friend of a friend kind of came to mind like immediately when we got this email, because I think it's actually a perfect temper for how to handle this. So this persons story does influence my advice here. But so my friend works for this ad agency and he says that there is a gal there who it's just like absurdly talented, like one of those people where you kind of don't know how they do what they do, they're just completely gifted.

And one of their clients actually tried to poach her. No, so they literally offered her double her current and the job would be fully remote. She's currently in the office. But this individual is so what I call pathologically ambitious.

But like, he was so concerned about the career ramifications of not working full time in office with, like, her co workers that SHE just went to her boss of the add agency, and he told them what was happening and basically said, I feel like I have so much growth opportunity here. I am very happy here. But they have made me this offer that I feel like I almost can't refuse, but I want to stay here. So what should we do? Not did.

What do they meet?

I don't think they were able to do as much because doubling is obviously pretty extreme. This client, I mean, IT was like a big corporate client that just has like unlimited funds and then like a small local ad agencies.

So I don't think that they could double IT, but I know that they they made a good faith effort at increasing, giving her kind of a path forward that would eventually probably be able to get her there and a cellar increase in the meantime. And I said, I think she's pretty happy with we know where they landed and what ended up happening yet. What about you? Have you ever leveraged A A new offer successfully to stay where you were?

So I didn't leverage new offer, but I didn't negotiate a substantial twenty five percent rates without an offer. And to be fair, kid helped me with this off.

I'm like listening or note SHE was not negotiating with me, so it's not like he was asking me were the only well.

to be very actually the first time I negotiated was with you and we talk about this story. In the end, we were like you use my own advice against me. That was a thirty percent increase. So I was really .

happy about the .

former from my former job and in my current job, where i'm not negotiating with you, but you were advocating for me, we were able to get another twenty five percent, which you had one piece of advice that you said that I thought was fantastic. And IT was from the Catherine valentine, negotiate an episode that we did, which you were like, say all of the things and then just stop talking yeah like, don't sabor yourself. And I remember wanting to be like, and but like, if you can and you need half and I remember being like, no, don't do IT just write that down.

but do not say anything. It's so hard. IT was so hard, so hard. But I just start negotiating against yourself to kind of backtrack on the Katherine valentines advice. This was an episode we did at the beginning of this year of twenty twenty four about negotiation advice that factors in gender bias.

And one of cather's t was most women, because they are more likely to feel as though they need to put everyone at is and they don't want to be seen as ungrateful. And it's more likely to be associated with like a feminine quality that you're kind of a people pleaser that like you wanted keep the peace, right? That you'll make your case for why you deserve more money.

Or you will say I have this new offer. And then instead of just letting IT hang there and allowing the other person to fill the space and respond how they want to, you'll start negotiating against yourself. But I told the recently that's so unreasonable, right? And I would be happy with like just a little bit that were like, you know, whatever we can do, i'm but you know what if I think of a deal, it's not a deal breaker. Like you just don't go there, you're just stop talking and IT works. I well, I worked for him up.

Yeah, i've never actually stated a former place, but he also reminded me in the question, there were reasons that I wanted to move on from previous jobs, and I couldn't tell if SHE had interviewed for another job, but I kind of felt her lab.

So the other thing I would just ask her to think about for herself is, did you have any interest in living? And like maybe it's worth looking into that a little bit more to think about higher is going to act if they do decide to is there are your compensation but are not thrill about IT. So I read this piece on last store that don't use an external offer as an negotiation bluf.

If you're not prepared to follow through with IT because it's kind of your tale and then your boss, mos, that you're potentially checked out that you're looking for a new role and then I could leave a sour taste in their mouth of like on air here, but we're like not really thrilled to have you. So that's the other thing. And then also just how long you've been at the job. I don't think he mentioned if it's been like three years or three months. So yeah, you might feel little bit more uncomfortable as you're like I i've been in this role for three months and I think .

i'd deserve twenty thousand years. That's a really good point. I hadn't thought about the timing of IT of like if you just kind of got there, the other a lot of factors that I think could make that feel a little bit dicey.

But he did mention she's underpaid. SHE did mention that SHE was able to put together like this extensive comprehensive document outlining all the reasons he deserves more. So I feel like I kind of drawn i'm connecting the dots that she's probably last month, yeah.

yeah. She's probably .

been there for a while. She's probably been a previous player for a while. And SHE now has reason to believe that she's not being paid adequately.

So he pointed about leaving a sour taste in the mouth. This is why I love that. Just so happened to get that enacted from a friend. Because I think what I what I would probably say, and I wanted to have this strikes you, is like, hey, insert bosses names here. Thanks for meeting with me. I wanted to share that whether you wanted disclose the company you're not is up to you like I probably would if I were a company that I felt like, I don't know, like impressive. Ah.

that's interesting. I feel the opposite.

When I did this, I did say where I was considering going. IT wasn't a competitor. IT was in a completely different industry. But I did disclose who I was talking about. I feel the opposite.

but continue. I guess we could put this kind of templeton in the showers. But what would be your little people?

yes. So I would say things reading with me, I wanted to share that X, Y, Z company has reached out to me. We're super interested in talking, so I heard them out.

I was super surprised. But they offered me X, Y, Z, big grow money to come work for them. And funny enough, like the experience and job title are pretty much identical.

But honestly, and this is where you you kind of like build the report. But honestly, between you and me, I would much rathers stay here. I see a lot of growth potential here.

I love the work i'm doing here. You can may be named, drop some specific things you've worked on, some initiatives are excited about. And I can see myself being here for a long time.

But I also have to be realistic. And this is a fifty percent pae bump. And IT feels silly for me to not even consider that.

So what do you think? And then see what they say. And hopefully any manager is like where their salt will be like. Okay, let's see what we can do assuming they want to keep you. Now a couple of things to highlight you already mentioned make sure that you actually want to stay like let's make sure that those things are actually true, that you do see growth potential, that you are excited about working there, that you do want to stay for a long time like. Assuming all of those things are true, I think it's totally fair game to play those cards. And I think that I could be potentially an opportunity if there are projects or things at work that you would like to be doing more of and like maybe they can't afford to give you a crazy payment.

P, obviously, what Katherine valentine would say if he was here is probably like, oh, can you negotiate for like one time a bonus? Or in this case, can you negotiate for changing the types of things that you work on such that you would now be in a more favorable position in the future to earn more if you find that your time is getting sucked up right now by a lot of things that you just don't want to be doing? Like can you use this as an opportunity to make your job more pleasant and give that is like, well, you know, I understand if they tell you that they really can budge at all on the finances, then there are potentially some other avenues you can explore.

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There's a couple of the things that I just wanted to point out is like I think a lot of times you hear an increase number and you think all the opportunity is going to be so much more money. But it's like, is the opportunity really Better IT might just be easier to stay your current role but get more flexible.

So like for example, if I got offered like thirty thousand dollars, but I meant I had to go in every single day, i'd be like now dog like I have so much flexibility. I we have unlimited pt o it's remote. I have so much like and for me that something I want if he wants in the office to your friends, coworkers, like I totally get that. But I I just want to make sure that it's something that they are thinking through, not just the number that they are being offered, but what are the other benefits in the flexibility that it'll add your life? And two other things would be, do you force staying for a substantial link of time if they do say yes or like, is this going to be, I took the payment omb that they offered me, but then I want to dip two months after that.

That may not leave the best chase in their mouth, but if they call your bluff, so to be, are you prepared to walk away? And if they say no, are you actually going to say yes to the other offer? So it's just something that I think only you will know, like only you, Kelly will know a if that is something that you're able to do or your boss to understand and hopefully boss that advocate for you and understand that like this is as much about your professional journey as IT is for the company. But this is something I D want to mention before you go out to the wall of like this is what i'm asking .

for any time someone finds themselves in this position. I think there are only ever two real reasons. One is that you just want to make more money. You're happy where you are, but you want to be paid more to do the same thing. And so you can use an, you can use external offer in that way. But then there are sometimes I think that like you feel like you should try to leverage an external offered to earn more in your current job without maybe really thinking through whether if they accept IT, you're going to be like out will hold on though like now i'm realizing in retrospect that like, I kind of want to leave.

And so I know that you mentioned this, but I just wanted double down on that fact that make sure in the ever rational way of prison, these two things that you're also consulting, just your intuition, like your own desire, what is that that you really want to do? Because IT might not be the one that on the pro on list makes the most sense. But you will know, I think, in your gut, which one you are feeling more pull to.

And for me, been really difficult in the past to make decisions just based on numbers, because sometimes my god is telling me i'd rather IT like I just haven't inexplicable desire to do something else. And even though I may not be the most profitable path, it's what I know I want to do. And so I think that there's also room for that too.

And actually just reminded me a friend who we talk about this in the show before, that SHE wasn't only getting an increase this year. And I said, what do you want to look elsewhere? And he said, no, because six months from now, i'm gonna have a baby, ideally, and they have six months of paid family leave.

And I think that's another thing that if that something that's on your radar, like, for example, company covers I, B S, like a, that's a thing that I might need in two years as something to keep in mind. So I can I would just kind of emphasize the fact that I may not just be about the money that's on the table and more about and the what did you call the corporate. And I state to think about all the things. So.

U. S A, U. S A, yeah. I have a friend actually, who I was talking to about this.

He got offered, he works in main's planning and for line. And he was telling me that they offered him, think his schedule. Right now he doesn't work on, I think he works saturdays.

So his weekend is like sunday, monday, like those are the two days he has off and he works day time shift. But in those types of jobs, like there are night shifts, you do that they d need people that are working overnight. And they had to offered him a promotion and a race.

But with that he would have had to work. I can't remember how many nights a week, but he would have to do some overnight shifts. And we were just kind of like cancelling out the money IT sounded really good, like the increase itself sounded like, uh, oh yeah, that's a step up, right? Like that's that's unquestionably a step forward in your career.

But after we talked IT through, I like i'm not sure an extra I don't know what I was one hundred or eight hundred dollars a month post tax is worth permanently like screwing up your sleep schedule and like changing your lifestyle that radically and so he just turned IT down. He was like appreciate IT. But um he kind of took IT as opportunity to be like I actually see my career going in this direction and I i'm so appreciative that you considered me for this and am so grateful for the opportunity. But I have to you know keep working toward X Y Z eagle and I don't know that this gets me closer to that you know Graceful way is to kind of like turn things away if you need to.

Yeah, I was just reading a cover piece. I didn't get to read the whole thing. Just the headline that there's a number of like a growing number of people who will get off the promotion and turn IT down because the site money that they have is enough for them to be like, I don't want the extra responsibility and good with where I am.

I make money, money on the side like I don't need to think about that. And so that kind of reminds me of like, yeah, again, balancing like what you want your life to be worse, you did you call up pathological aspirations, pathology? Gc, ally, ambitious, pathologically ambitious.

You're ready for money. I say that is someone who was might still be, but you know, working through that um yeah i'm ready for a money story.

Let's go. Okay, great. So this was um an email receive the request, ted, to remain anonymous. But I was in a response to the episode did called how we make working in amErica Better and they said that that episode really resonated with them so i'll link IT in the showut not to bread, but I think IT was also a great ah so they said I work for a fortune company in your recent episode connected some critical dots for me.

I ve been with this company for almost three years, and every six months we go through around of reduction and forces, which is called rs. Up to this point, IT was always lower performing people who were let go, but we recently went throw around that was deep, widespread and unrelated to performance. I mid level White collar professional, and I consistently received strong performance reviews, but I have been personally R I F by two other companies.

This month when the latest round of rs was announced, there was no announcement or acknowledged of any kind, and I was not impacted, and I learned about them by scrolling your edit. It's like leaving my house after a hurricane and surveying the damage. I worked with people across the enterprise, and I know many people that are impacted.

So never made sense to me until I listen to your podcast, is why companies do this as a Normal course of business. I understand that there times when companies need to lay people off as market conditions associated, but I always felt that my company lays people off as a way to artificially inflict the quarterly earnings. Now I understand the powerful tax incentives that reward that behavior.

So this is my very part, they said, I gave my notice two weeks ago, and I decided to build up my own consulting practice, the world. That's what was like. Yes, this stra broke the cells back, was finding out that our C. E, O. Cashed out seventeen million dollars in stock within days of laying off, thousands of people .

seriously jail said, thank jill.

Thank you for your show. Thank you for connecting the dots for me. I appreciate the work that you do. What's say you?

Well, this is what say me A, I will say that this is um this is a powerful story in light of our conversation today since one of the core messages in the hamilton nolan interview that was in that episode where we talked about these R I F S and how they work is that workplaces without unions are basically authoritarian states. There's nothing democratic about that.

Your bosses jump, you say how high under the threat of termination, which means you have to play these little semantics, mind games that you and I just spent twenty minutes talking about about, say this instead of that so you don't leave a bad taste in their month. Oh, you don't anna piss anybody off because so like you, you have so little control, you have to really be careful to, like, not roughly, feathers, because there is an inherent power imbaLance. And I think that was like the major take away from that episode, was that the unions sort of restore some level of baLance to the dynamics between the people that are in charge and the people that own everything and the people that have to labor for money.

So I think that's really notable. The other thing that i'll say, based on this comment about finding out our CEO cashed out seventeen million in stock within days of laying thousands of people off. That person can believe that out. But respectfully, that secondly, this is in A A theme in the S. A.

That I wrote for this week, which is basically about the fact that whenever we talk about things like universal basic in incomer, universal basic services, as we did with Grace Blakely a couple weeks ago, there is always a concern that, like oil, people are gonna that you know, if you give people the opportunity to be parasites, they're gonna take IT. If you give people something for free, they're gonna leach off society. Dog, you want to talk about a leach off society.

You're laying off thousands of people in taking seventy million and stuck. Yeah, you want to ask me how much the united health care CEO made twenty twenty one at the height of a global health crisis. Ask me, you'll never guess.

Can I guess, please? One hundred and fifty million dollars.

So close. Yeah, one hundred and forty two million dollars.

crab. I tried to pick the most imported number.

In the middle of a pandemic, when people are unemployed, losing their health care, they're dying there, being buried under medical bills. This guy made one hundred and forty million. Unlike that is what IT looks like to leach off society. That's what IT looks like to be a parasite, all right? On that note, I guess that's all this week, rich go around up, but we'll see on wednesday to talk about money anxiety being correlated with getting more of IT.

Unless year the C E O united health are.

Which is keep your anxiety, you stupid mother. no.