What's the difference between Chinese and American homes?
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What does it take to buy a home? And what habits define home life in China and the United States? Welcome to The Bridge, enlightening conversations on world cultures, life, and everything in between. Hey everyone, this is Jason Smith, host of The Bridge podcast from sunny California. If you like the show, don't forget to subscribe. We love The Bridge.

Hi, everyone. My name is Jason Smith. I'm originally from sunny California, now living in beautiful Beijing. And today with me is Bebe. Hey.

Hello. Hi, Jason. And it's another beautiful day here in Beijing. Blue sky and no wind and lots of sun. Get that. It's definitely a day to go out and explore. I've already done that. I've gone out and explored. Yeah. But for you? Well, I think we could talk about home life, but housing prices in the U.S. are still driving inflation, according to IonHousing.org. And in China, the government has taken steps to encourage more first-time homebuyers and

I just read an article, Shenzhen's US $2.5 billion land sale is a bright spot for China's sluggish property market. And this came out on December 4th. So I think we're seeing all kinds of developments. But I have a special question for you. Sure. How do you react or how would you react to an American guest trouncing into your home in their sneakers? In their sneakers. You know, that has just never happened here in China. I'm coming over. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I wouldn't really mind because my helper comes in every day for like two hours to clean up. But then it's just not something that happens here in China. You know, everybody who has come to visit, they always offer to take their shoes off. And sometimes you even say that, oh, you don't have to take it off. It's kind of just like a polite gesture on both sides. Because sometimes...

No, you don't want to inconvenience your guests, but they always insist on changing into slippers. So yeah, I never thought about that question. I think maybe...

Maybe only Americans would actually walk around in their house in their sneakers. Like, do they all do that? Or just, you know, some people. I mean, Americans are from everywhere. So I think you've got people who are from Asia who would not do that. But I think the typical suburban American who grew up in America. What about carpets? Oh, yeah, absolutely. You have carpets in some rooms. Would you walk on them? Yeah, walk on them. Oh, my gosh. Uh-huh. You vacuum two, three times a week. We come home and we not only change our slippers, like I change my outfit.

Especially when you go into like the bedroom, sit on the sofa or on the bed. Like you change your outfit because I don't know, in our mind, you bring something from outside. You know, my wife is the same way that I'll walk in from outside. I'll just go to the park or whatever. And I'll try to sit down on the sofa and she'll say, wait, have you sat down outside? I'm like, yeah, then you can't sit on the sofa. You have to go change. Yeah. But in America, that's crazy talk. You

You know, I don't think really there's a right or wrong. It's mostly probably psychological, especially if you've been to places like, you know, the hospital. Then you either spray yourself from head to toe with like alcohol or you change into something and then like dump your outfit into the washer right away. Yeah. So that's an interesting question. I think I've taken on your habits since I've been here. If I go to the hospital, I would throw my clothes into the wash or if I go outside and

And even my shoes are clean. I'll take them off and switch them for inside shoes. I don't even go to the bathroom in inside shoes. I have special bathroom shoes. And this is like, I've gone full Chinese. Your wife has trained you well. Yes, yes, yes. All of that negative reinforcement. Don't do that. What do you think you're doing?

So these are the things, you know, we do to show respect to our living space. I think Chinese people probably have a stronger belief in owning their own home, owning their own house. Well, mostly here in China, it's apartments.

And I think this is historical because China has been a huge agricultural society. Nowadays, much less, of course, but you know, a few generations back, everybody, mostly everybody was farming. So people have strong beliefs in owning your own land. Like the ultimate wealth was not just money or gold.

by land. I'm going to ask you a hard question though. Before Mao, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know Chinese history very well. You are Chinese, so you can help me. But before Mao Zedong, wasn't there like a lot of peasants who were working wealthy estates, land for them and living on them as basically indentured fiefs? Isn't that correct? Something like that. Yeah. Like some of them would work. We call them landlords. Yeah. And then you get part of that. I don't

know the details. Probably some people, you know, own their own pieces of land. But I think if these kind of economic structure is not, if it goes on naturally, eventually most of the property, most of the land and wealth will start to concentrate in fewer and fewer hands. And that's kind of the cycle that revolution was set in to break.

That's what will happen, right? Capital accumulates more capital. Most people only have their labor to offer. And what the changes in China, the social changes, political changes, what it was trying to do was to make sure that people, you know, the people who were born with no wealth, with no power, they have the opportunity to go from the bottom to the...

Maybe not to the top, but there is room to go forward. Because if the social structure is set, it's like the caste system, but in economic terms, then you have no future. You're bound to work at the bottom. Yeah. That's a huge topic, by the way. But, you know... I was thinking about

where you started in terms of owning a home is important in China. But I was also thinking that owning a home in China is maybe, and you can tell me why this is totally wrong too, is easier. And the reason I say this is in the United States, you might have two, three kids. I don't know. That's not true anymore. That used to be true in my generation, but now it's like 70% of families don't have kids. But in China, you have a one child policy that goes back at least a couple of generations now. So what you have are, you know, young people now in their 20s

have two parents and four grandparents and all of their, those people, those six people's wealth is concentrated on one child or grandchild. And then that grandchild or child marries another grandchild or child with all who also has six adults who have been working their whole life and their wealth is concentrated on that one person. So this young couple now has 12 children,

to help them buy their first home. Am I not right? Well, in some way, but it's interesting how we see things from different perspectives because I'm one of the generations of a single child, right? So a lot of my generation see it like this. Like all of a sudden, it's just me who will be responsible, me and maybe your husband and wife, who will be responsible of taking care of not just your own child or children, but two sets of parents, two siblings.

sets of aging parents but from your perspective that's also true and chinese parents give a lot of help when it comes to buying especially the first home for their children for their child that's something they a lot of that's something they firmly believe in like they consider it as part of their responsibility that when by the time their child gets married um mom are you listening the

The family should have an apartment, even if it's a small one. So, I mean, Chinese parents save, right? They save for this. They knew when they have a child. Like in the States, you save for college tuition, right? That's not much of a thing here in China. Maybe, maybe.

Rich families, yes. Lower middle class and lower class, no. They have to take student loans and then they owe the government $2 trillion. Gee. Well, here in China, it's like psychological. It's part of your belief that you at least try to support your child with their first home. And most Chinese people don't like to rent if they can afford to buy a home.

they would choose to buy a home because they feel like it's a waste of money, you know, to give some a landlord money month after month. Well, you can save that money and buy a house apartment for yourself. So I think that's something I think this belief is definitely stronger in the Chinese culture that the house should come before marriage.

But by house, I mean not like a, you know, mention, just an apartment. You know, actually, that was when I first started dating Summer, my current Chinese wife, her mother said, before you get serious about your relationship, make sure he buys an apartment in Yantai. At that time, I couldn't buy an apartment. So I was like, I can't do that. So Summer was like, don't worry, I'm going to teach you anyway.

Oh, how sweet. Yeah. I mean, it takes a couple of years, right? Maybe even longer. And also for, let's say, your wife's parents, for their generation, like my parents' generation, when they were that age, housing wasn't a thing, right? They didn't have to save to buy a house. It came with a job. They didn't have to save to buy a house.

have to save for a lot of things. Could you explain what you mean it came with the job? Well, like when I was little, my mom was working in a university. She was working on campus. So the university would give us a place to live. Like we moved a couple of times also moving into bigger and bigger apartments, but they're all relatively small in today's terms. But it just it came with the job. Like it's part of the job. I don't think we paid anything.

Hey, everyone. This is Jason Smith, host of The Bridge podcast from sunny California. If you like the show, don't forget to subscribe. We love The Bridge. You're listening to The Bridge. I want to ask all of the American questions. You're going to be my new interviewee. So is it normal for other jobs also? Or is this something special for university professors?

I think that was just part of the deal. Like either the husband or the wife, after you are married, if you're single, they have like dorms for you to live in, like the dorms that come with your workplace. But after you get married, all kinds of workplaces, I think so. As far as I know. So you work at like an oil company, oil refinery company in China in the 1970s.

And the husband would just get an apartment there? Yeah, as far as I know. Wow. It comes with the workplace. And also, it's usually close to your workplace. Wow. Does it belong to you? Does it belong to you or does it belong to the company? Who does it belong to? I think it belongs... Well, my family belongs to us. Wow.

So if you get a job in the 1960s and 70s, the company, oftentimes a state-owned enterprise at that time, they would then provide housing that would become the employees after a few years or immediately. How did that work? Do you know? I don't know the details, but we didn't pay rent. It was just our place. And a few years later, you get a lot of the, like a bigger place when that became available. I think it depends on how many years you've been working at that workplace. Wow.

Because back then, people didn't change jobs that often. You accumulate your years of experience and then your salary goes up according to that. And the other amenities like housing and I don't know what else, services, depends on what kind of work you do. Yeah, so it wasn't something we thought about. Around what time, I guess it was when you were a little girl or maybe before that, did people start needing to buy their own apartments? What was that transition period like? Do you know? I was

still living in my mom's university's housing when I was in middle school. Then I went to the States. So I guess that house wasn't ours anymore. And then you return that house. And then later on, I knew that policies start to change. Like you could buy that place. For example, my, my aunt, uh, she used to work for, I think she worked

for a government agency. And then when she got married, for the first few months, they lived in the dorm, which could be really awkward because I think after you got married, you lined up on a list to get housing, to get like workplace housing. And after they

they were married for a few months, they got like a really small apartment and they still have it now. So that apartment was for free and they lived in it for a few years. And it's like tiny, but it's precious, right? Because it's yours. And it's like in the middle of Beijing. So now it's worth a lot. Later on, they could have sold it, I guess. But it's like a piece of jam now. Like you have a house, an apartment in, you know, in the city. They can rent it now. Maybe at some point they paid something for it.

so that it was no longer the workplace apartment. I think there are policies that came later. Now it's theirs. Like it's not the workplaces anymore. But the prices that they paid back then was really cheap.

It's like not even worth mentioning. And then prices for housing started to go crazy. Like when I was already an adult, for those decade or two, people were just dropping their draws at how prices of housing just went skyrocketing. It just went over the roof.

It was a bit of a shock for most people to get used to because most people were thinking, OK, so we can, you know, if I have extra money, I can go buy all these private homes. But will the price go up or go down? So every day when people get together to chat for those decade or two, people were always talking about housing. This was like, let's say, late 1990s and early 2000s, you know, those times, especially after the millennium.

And people are always amazed at, oh my gosh, I didn't know the price of the housing would go up that much. If I knew this, I would have bought like five more apartments. You know, I wouldn't have invested in anything else. So talks about this went on for like over a decade. I think it's calming down now. But of course, as you know, talks about speculating and investing in housing has finally calmed down in the past few years, right? People, it's a different era now. I saw it.

Former World Trade Organization speaker speaking on this topic about a month ago. And he said, firstly, we're an entertainment show, guys. We're not telling you how to invest money. But he said that he compared Shanghai to Gujarat and Delhi to Beijing. And he compared real estate prices. And he thinks that Chinese real estate is still...

priced under where it's going to end up and that might go as high as six times as expensive as it is now. Wow. Well, maybe for certain places. And I think, you know, prices for housing in certain parts of Beijing will never go down because there will always be demand. People are talking about dropping housing prices. A lot of these are for houses on the periphery of Beijing.

the demand is no longer that high. And most of these, I think, are apartments that people bought for investment. You know, people like the people I knew, I don't know where they got the money, but they were buying apartments like crazy. Like whenever they had surplus income, like they just go and buy apartments.

And I've met friends every time, like this one lady, every time she came over, she's like, oh, I got a new apartment. And like, and then she started buying not just in China, but also like in the U.S. Like when her son went to the U.S. to study and she was like, let me go first. I'll buy

What a lucky boy. Wow.

Amazing. Yeah. And then after her son left, she sold a home in the U.S. and made some money from that, too. I mean, like she's not even the wealthy class here in China. Like her husband works in a university and she has some normal job, but she saves. Do you hear that, Americans? Those poor Chinese people just with their five houses. It's so sad. Yeah.

She's just like middle class, but she's concentrated. Like she's always on the lookout for apartments. And then she sells this one, buys another one. In the process, she accumulates some capital and wealth. But I'm not too sure how happy she is right now. Because for people...

And the funny thing is, so in the news, you keep hearing about this housing crisis in China, right? And it makes it sound like all of us living in China is like ants on, what do you call it? On a hot plate or something. I don't even feel anything. None of my neighbors or anybody I know feels anything. I know Jerry Gray said on a show before, he owns three apartments in China, and that he personally lost an enormous amount of wealth. But he didn't... See, here's the thing. He's not...

selling any of those apartments. So it doesn't really matter. Eventually, the price will come back up and then it'll become valuable again. I do want to kind of pivot, though. I want to mention briefly that China did finally give an incentive to the market and they pumped 1.4 US billion into the

real estate related infrastructure here in China. And it's basically rebalanced the problem when the real estate crisis is over. But I also want to talk about what are the similarities and differences in how people in China and people in the U.S. use our homes? Use our homes. Well, see, the reason why I don't feel the impact, no matter what they say in the news, is that I only have one place to live. And I'm happy with that, right? I have one place. I don't care

I don't care if the price goes up and down. I live here. I'm not selling it. And for people... You told me your husband has a big tent that he likes to go camping in the desert. Well, sometimes. Yeah, that's for free. So you have two places. We have two cars if it gets that bad. But we're not selling this place. So I don't even know how much my place is worth on the market because it doesn't matter. So it's for people who have been investing.

Right. In apartments. Yes. Yes. Yes. It's the it's people like your friend who are a little better off than the person concentrating on investing in real estate. And for a lot of other people who are looking to buy apartments, like when they're trying to get married or.

Or I don't know, when their kids change school, they need to go to another place. Maybe they're happy because housing prices have, you know, dropped hopefully where they want to buy it. So is it? I don't know. Like for us who are not, you know, reading news about the markets all the time. I don't know.

don't know like i'm not influenced and some people probably pretty happy about you know lower prices oh yeah well i mean i would like to add because what you said it makes sense the context the way you look at something that for foreign companies that had heavily invested in real estate in china they were unhappy about this but for chinese people firstly 80 percent of people who were above 25 in china own their own home outright with no mortgage so i mean in the united states how

Half of all real estate is owned by the bank in some way. So people in China are doing, when everyone's like in the West, oh, the poor Chinese people and their real estate crisis. What are you talking about? People in China are so much better off vis-a-vis real estate than people in the United States. It's ludicrous. But I want to ask you, I'm going to pivot because I really do want to talk about the way we use our homes. I know that you are a special case, baby, because you care about the environment more than the rest of us. Why?

But would you say the Chinese friends that you know, do they use a drying machine for their clothes? Well, the machine I have is a washer plus a dryer. So it's combined in one. But well, well, not

Not really, because I don't think the dryer works out that well. And also because it takes like over an hour and it comes out not even entirely dry. So I don't really use it. My husband uses it to kill the bacteria. I've told you about him. He's all about like killing viruses and bacterias, getting rid of these like...

crazy guys so we can stay healthy. So sometimes he would use the dryer for the purpose of just sanitation, make sure that every little bug is dead. But otherwise, we just hang it to dry and we have like a little room, especially set aside for that. Like back in the days when growing up, we just hang them outside.

If you have a balcony, everybody who has a balcony have like these bamboo poles, right? They will stick out from their balcony and they hang their underwear and bed sheets and everything. And occasionally you would have to go downstairs, knock on your neighbor's door and, you know, sorry, I have to retrieve my underwear. It fell on your balcony. Yeah.

So things like that happen. And there's comfort in knowing that your clothing has been dried under the sun. You feel like the x-ray and whatever other things that, you know, it would actually do a better job of roasting all the kind of bugs that's alive in your laundry. So yeah, I wouldn't use a dryer if I, you know, don't have to. When I moved to Asia for the first time, it was 2010. I was not moving to China. I was moving to South Korea. And

my work provided me with an apartment. They said, here's your apartment. And I was like, okay. I went in. They left me there. Bye. And I immediately looked around to see what's there. Refrigerator. Okay, sure. Washing machine. Okay, sure. And then I didn't think about it until later when my clothes were wet. I was like, okay, where's the dryer? There isn't a dryer. What is this metal thing? And I had to figure out...

How to hang my clothes out to dry. And this was just and to me, it wasn't just like, oh, this is different. It was I can't believe they do this. Like what? Isn't that a natural thing to do? Not at all.

From where the universe that I had come from to the universe of Asia, it was literally another world. It was hard for me to wrap my mind. I kept telling people, did you know that just dry their clothes by hanging them? For days, I was telling people like they didn't already know that. Yeah.

You know, the first time I went to Japan to visit, maybe I have a thing about balcony because it's just part of my childhood. We would have a small apartment and if it's upstairs, everybody, you know, upstairs, we have a balcony in the back and it's like a storage room too. And then it's where you dry not just your clothing and laundry, but sometimes it's used to dry radishes. You know, pickled radishes or pickles.

pickled vegetables, sometimes like string, long string beans. And you pickle that. And for the radishes, you cut them in slices and you put them on these bamboo poles that you use to dry your laundry. And it takes a few days for them to kind of dry a bit, not completely dry, depending on how you like it.

If you want it to be watery, kind of moist, crunchy, then you dry it for just maybe a day or two. If you want it to be really dry and a different kind, resilient kind of crunchiness, you dry it for a little longer. So yeah, it's like your little outdoor space. And my memory of it, a sweet part of it is like my grandma, we would sit on the balcony and my grandma would brush my hair, you know, put them into braids and all that. So it's a sweet memory for me. And I remember at

remember this one time I was working in New York City at that time. And so for the years that I lived in the U.S., I didn't see anything like that, right? These balcony that comes with apartments because I lived in the suburb most of the time. But when I one time after work, I was walking back to my apartment and I came across in the distance a building with balconies that's open. It wasn't like a sealed box. It was like these balconies were open. And I literally stood there and almost cried.

Because it reminded me of my childhood days. And you can actually walk onto these balconies and you can even, you know, hang your clothes there to dry if you want to. And the first time I visited Japan, the R&B that we rented, it was a little, it's just like a family house, like almost falling apart.

And the old lady, the owner of it, was introducing the place to us. She was telling us where to hang our laundry to dry. And we had to climb up this really narrow set of stairs that was literally just like, you know, sloppy. I felt like we could all fall down. And then she led me to this small, tiny balcony area with the same bamboo poles sticking out. So that's where we can dry our laundry. And again, I almost cried because...

Because this is like, you know, childhood memory. You know, this is what doing laundry, drying laundry was like. It was very sweet memory, actually. So yeah, that's a very common way. And you probably can't imagine how extravagant, like when it comes to using energy, how extravagant the American ways can be. Like I have friends, my cousin who live in the US, she's still wearing like a t-shirt inside her house in December.

And I was like, isn't it cold outside? You live in Boston. Oh, she's like, oh, it's 24, 25 degrees Celsius inside. See, that takes a huge amount of energy to maintain your house at 25 Celsius in the winter. I mean, I can't imagine doing that here in China. I just think that would be...

Too wasteful. Well, maybe if you have great insulation. I don't know. It's just three degrees, four degrees Celsius outside here in Beijing right now. But I'm guessing, and I have not run the heater today at all in my apartment in Beijing, but I'm guessing it's like 21 right now because I think...

That just keeps heat well. Yeah. And also I know your apartment and the sun gets in really nicely. So your apartment gets lots of sunshine during the day. But we're talking about energy use and environmental protection. I think that's one thing. You know, it's wintertime. You can put on a sweater and maybe just lower the temperature for a little bit.

So that, you know, you don't burn that much fuel just to heat up the house. For the Chinese people listening who have not been to the States, I just want to say this. I think that 99.99% of American homes have a dryer and that they use it every time they wash their clothes. Yeah. But I've seen in American movies that back in the days, people...

people did dry their clothing out in their backyard. Yes, in my grandmother's time. Yeah, and then it just maybe got out of style. But it's something we can try again, right? Why run your dryer for an hour when you can just dry it outside in fresh air under the sun? With inflation in the U.S., I'm guessing people are trying all kinds of things right now. I want to ask you another one that's related.

What about dishwashing machines in China? Do you have one? Do you know people who have them? Do you guys use them? I do have one. My husband. No, no, no. But listen, the fate has not changed for this one. So my husband bought it, I think, over maybe when we got the place. It's been sitting literally outside for over a decade. It is.

It was a brand new machine. And I didn't even want to ask how much he paid for it. Thousands, probably, at least. And it was just, I don't know what came of him, but he bought one. And we didn't even use it for one single day. It's still that new machine. But like, its fate is even worse than a wooden cabinet. It's just sitting outside, even in the rain. If things have a soul, I feel sad for your washing machine. The thing is, let me explain this. Nobody wants me. Right. Right.

And this is the thing, like back when we were living in the US. Oh, I know what happened. You yelled at him and then he just never brought it in. No, there was something with connecting with the water, this and that. And there is also, I think the deeper influence is this mental distrust of washing machines. You don't know whether or not it's actually cleaned. It look clean. It's so clean. It's so clean. Well, but.

But there you put like other stuff in it. The thing that really gets us is detergent. Like if it's only just using hot water, I think we're OK with it. Even if it's not like perfectly clean, we're fine with it. Gosh, but it does. The water is so hot. OK, here's the thing. Don't use detergent if you don't want. That's fine. But when you open it, it's so hot that you can't. The steam will burn your fingers. Well, OK.

I don't know. Well, for multiple reasons. The one that we had like in our place back in the States was never used as a washing machine. It was used as a dryer. It was used as a dryer for plates. After you wash it, you put it there. And it's like a storage space.

And for some other Chinese families, too, we just like to make sure that they are properly washed, that all the detergent have been washed off so we can feel that it's completely washed. So I think it's something psychological, this distrust of machinery. So like there are companies who sell these dishwashers here in China, of course, but I think

it might take some work for it to catch on. It really has to change Chinese people's opinions about washing machines, this distrust. I don't know how they're going to do it. We do have a, what do you call it? It's like, it heats up. So after we wash our plates and bowls, yes, I know. I know what, yes. I had one of those in Wuhan. Yeah. It's really hot and it sanitizes. It kills everything. Like, especially after COVID. First you wash your dishes, then you put them in there and it sanitizes everything. Yeah. Um,

Yeah, there's something about dishwasher. Maybe just not catching on. Well, here's another one. You've lived in the States. At the time when you lived in the States, did you have a yard? Yeah. Yeah.

Well, my parents did. No, I mean in the U.S. Yeah. Front yard, backyard. You have to mow the lawn. And do you have one now? Do you have one now? Well, not for apartments, but we do have communal like park areas. I guess this is a big difference because in the United States, when I was a kid, we there were four sons and my father. And almost every single weekend, Saturday morning was boys get up. We need to go do the yard. And we would spend the day mowing and clipping things. I don't know, whatever it was that that week was.

raking leaves and all that junk. So like this is part of the American lifestyle is to maintain the yard. It's usually the men that do that while the lady folk. And this is not as true as much as it used to be, but it's still true. The lady folk would maybe primp up the inside of the house. And then by Saturday after lunch, the entire house inside and out was immaculate for the rest of the next week, basically.

And my question for you is, what are the roles, the gender roles in the house and outside of the house? Huh, here in China? Yeah. I think nowadays men are mostly responsible for just looking at their cell phones. What?

Hey everyone, this is Jason Smith, host of The Bridge podcast from sunny California. If you like the show, don't forget to subscribe. We love The Bridge. You're listening to The Bridge.

I saw a video on Instagram where they circled. They were showing apartments from another apartment. So you were looking from one apartment building into the next one. And they were showed six kitchens and they circled it with a pink circle so you could see. And in all six kitchens were six men cooking. Oh!

Yeah. Okay. So I think there's some differences in like Northern and Southern China, like culture wise. This is of course not absolute, right? But in Southern parts of China, the men are like, they do a lot more housework than men from North China. So it's common for you to... Ladies, do you hear that? Go to the South. Yeah.

in the South, it's common to see men who are the ones wearing the apron and usually with like pink flowery, flowery things on the outside. Yeah. And also because in Southern parts of China, it's, you know, it's cold in winter, but not cold enough for internal heating. So a lot of

people, they would just wear their pajama gowns, like really thick ones, really warm ones, even when they go outside. And actually, especially in Hunan province, they've become famous because of their attire. Like they would actually wear, this is something that go against what we were talking about in the beginning of the show. So in

that province, the Hunan province, a lot of people, they would actually wear their pajamas outdoors. And then they, you know, it's like indoor, outdoor, same temperature. And those pajamas are really warm. And then outside of that, like a lot of men would just wear a pink apron, whatever pattern their, you know, their wives picked out for them. I don't think you should phrase it that way. Just a pink apron. Mostly, mostly pink.

So yeah, they wash dishes, they cook. But in northern part of China, of course, it's not absolute, right? I don't want to get a call and say I'm being prejudiced. But in northern part, in like northwestern part of China, like it's more, what's the word for that? Like men, they're not as involved.

Lazy. Well, I think it's cultural in a way because their fathers were like that. My wife is from Yantai. I'll just tell you a story. I don't know anything about Yantai gender roles, but I know that every time I wash the dishes, day and night, I wake up in the morning, there's dishes there. I wash them. My wife comes home. She cooks things. I have to wash the dishes. Mm-hmm.

So one day I was like, why don't you take a turn washing dishes? And she said, we should buy a dishwashing machine. So I just washed the dishes. So every time I complain that I'm the only one that washes the dishes, she just proposes that we buy a dishwashing machine and I just wash the dishes. You pay for it.

Yeah, I think that's a nice way of dealing with it, right? So someone cooks and another person washes the dishes. Like in my household, my husband doesn't do any of these. So he has cooked maybe like two or three times. Ever? Yeah, ever. The thing with men cooking is that the kitchen would become so messy sometimes.

In the process of the man cooking? No, I wash the dishes while I'm cooking. Well, see, that's a really, really smart and good habit. Then when I'm finished, when I'm finished cooking, there are no dishes because I've been washing the whole time. Exactly. Yeah. And that you feel so good, right? This is how like a lot of women, we would do that. And it's a smart way of doing it.

But I think it's beyond my husband's capability to be cooking and like washing dishes. Like it's just like too much. What's the word for it? Like you have to really think about how to do things about efficiency, right? There's even a major called OR, operational research or something like that. Anyhow.

So I don't think he's intelligent enough to handle both at once. So by the end of his cooking, the house would be a disaster. And I would have to spend over an hour just to patch things up. And he... So you just say, you can not cook again this year. Yeah, and then he would be looking so smirk, so proud that he cooked. And this pride would live in him for months. So I think overall...

It's just not worth it. You know, it's just not worth it. And so, but our solution eventually as work got busier, we just hired somebody. So we no longer, you know, fight about this. And also I eventually after like 10 years of marriage, I finally figured out that we're just responsible for different things. You know, I'm more responsible for like the tiny house chores or, you know, taking care of the child and things like that. But whenever there's anything big that happens,

Like, you know, plumbing issues, electricity issues, or any other things that I would consider a big issue. Heating and things like toilet, you know, that's his responsibility. And he always takes care of it. Sometimes much delayed, but he knows that it's his responsibility. So I think it works out well. Even for middle class, just regular lower middle class people in China, I think that's the same answer that many people give.

that they have some kind of helper who comes to the house at least once a week or maybe many times a week. And they sometimes clean, sometimes cook, sometimes cook and clean, sometimes help with children, sometimes help with the elderly. So I think in China and this, you can't do this in the United States unless you're upper class, because that kind of help is expensive. But in China, you know, people, the rates for having someone come over, pop into your house for an hour a day is actually really, really low. Very affordable.

See, that's something I wanted to mention because I think it's part of a housing issue, right? About part of a daily living here in China. The ability to be able to afford a helper of some sort. If you have a young child at home, like a baby, you can hire a nanny, a full-time one who can live in your house 24 hours, like 24-7 or 6-7.

someone who comes for eight hours, right? Or someone who comes for just a few hours. Like we've changed our way of doing it. But nowadays we have a nanny comes in for two hours every day in the afternoon. So pre-dinner time, she cleans for an hour and then like cook for an hour and we have dinner and some leftover for lunch the next day.

And it's affordable. The prices for this kind of service has been increasing, though, over the years. When I first arrived in Beijing, well, like over 20 years ago, maybe, roughly, I remember paying about 15 RMB for an hour. 15 RMB for an hour? So that was a little over $2.

Wow. 10 or 15. It was a while back. Yeah, it was like Olympic times, right? And so, you know, someone would come. I still remember my helper, Ayi, and she was very efficient. And then slowly, you know, over the decades, the prices got to be over 20 and then over 30. And now I pay over 45 RMB per hour. You have the best deal I've ever heard of. The people I know who have this service pay for like...

200 RMB for them to come. You know, that's like one day. For one day? How dirty is that place? Like two hours or something. I know people all over Beijing. Wow, you have a very good price. Yeah, well, my husband, we've been working together for like over probably at least 10 years now.

And the price has gone up. But if it goes any higher, I would consider it to be a little too expensive. But now it's under then... I think 45 RMB, that's about minimum wage in many states in the United States. Yeah, but for here, she's pretty happy with what she can make. She's, you know, it's on her schedule. And sometimes she would take... For Chinese New Year, she takes a month off. And it will be a sad time for us. Yeah.

because like the floor would not be cleaned for like a week. Sounds like a sad time for you. But your husband's just like on his cell phone from what I heard.

Yeah, even though, you know, we can get help on most days, but Chinese festival, like spring festival time, it's a time for domestic headache because most Ais, most nannies, they return to their home village and they go for a long time, at least two weeks or so, sometimes for a month. And then we have to like, you know, put on the gloves and actually scrub the toilet.

and mop the floors and everything. But overall, I really appreciate this kind of freedom from daily house, lots of daily house chores. And I think it has liberated so much of my time to do the things that I, you know, you know, to work and to be with my child. But I can't really imagine doing this in the US. I think that will be way too expensive. So I...

as far as I know, most people don't have this kind of domestic help, like most middle class or lower middle class. And also, let me just say from an American middle class perspective, the, a lot of the house chores can be done by the children and that's what they're there for. Well, well,

Well, the quality of work will be different. Yeah, you teach them and they do a bad job. You train them to do a better job after a couple months. Hey, house looks amazing. Now I'm going to teach you a new chore this week. Well, maybe. I don't know. Maybe I'm just not good at training that part. But this is something like because my daughter doesn't know about house chores because we don't do it. Something's dirty. She just gives to...

our IE helper. It's not the best kind of teaching, but I really don't want to be, you know, get rid of my helper just so I can educate my child. She'll learn it some other day. And also something else I want to mention is that a lot of Chinese men, even Chinese men who don't ever get involved in cooking or cleaning, they become re-educated once they move to some foreign country. I've seen this so many, like a

all over and also from internet and videos shared by families who moved to other countries, especially to the US, because when they move, they migrate to another country, they find that they can't find domestic help. They can't afford it. So every family member becomes involved in

cleaning and cooking and shopping and usually because they live in a bigger place instead of apartment they have a house there's a lot more work involved for decades when like these men chinese men when they were young they were taken care of by their moms right so they're mama's boys and when they got married taken care of by their wives while they were in china but all of a sudden when they migrate and move to a foreign country there's nobody else to offer this kind of help

So finally, a lot of them grew to be independent men who can actually cook and clean and, of course, hold a job at the same time. So it's a form of re-education. Well, I think that's true for all of us, not just Chinese men, for all.

me as an American man moving to China, there are many things that I do now that I wouldn't have done as much of back in the States. I don't know if this is because I'm in China. I think it's just because of my wife. It used to be I like to do the dishes. Then I was like, okay, I like to cook too. Now I think I just do most of the housework. What happened? Huh.

She just encouraged me effectively over a long period of many years, training me to be like her ideal housekeeper. Hey, but I do know that she takes care of finance, right? Oh, she's very good at it. Which takes a lot of brain work. Yeah, that's something I wouldn't want to do. And also she gets all the documents whenever you have to get some documents or dealing with the government. Yeah, see, I would choose to do house chores in trading of that.

Yeah. She pays the bills. I give her all the money and then somehow magically my phone always works and I don't have the light. The light always gets to turn on and it's very nice. Like for me, one day I realized that I didn't even know where to pay for water or electricity because it was my husband who has always taken care of it. Over the years, you start to really appreciate your partner in life. I think every partnership finds its own chemistry. Oh yeah.

You're listening to The Bridge. I have a question. Next question. We still have time for one more topic. We've talked about it a little bit before, but I just wanted to ask you because we're talking about homes. Pets. Do you have pets? I have a dog, yeah. We've had him for two years now. And your dog is allowed in the house? Well, he

lives with us. So your dog is, well, some in America, we have dogs that are inside, outside or outside or inside. That's how we determine. Some families are like the dog only stays inside. Some families are like the dog just goes wherever he wants or she wants. Some households or dogs are not allowed inside the house. So your dog is an inside, outside. Yeah, he's inside. So may I ask you, is your dog allowed on the couch, the sofa? Uh,

not really. No, he's tried a few times, but yeah, we made that a rule. What are his limitations? Or is it a he or a she? It's a he. So what is it? What are his limitations? What does he get to do? Mostly on the floor. He tries to come onto my carpet. I have a carpet in my studio and I'm too soft hearted, you know, Jason. So when he comes over, I just let him and he,

He's pretty good. He doesn't do anything like... Mask, what kind of dog do you have? I know the name in Chinese, but I don't know how to say it in English. How big and what color? We'll figure it out. The color of nicely toasted bread. Light brown. Okay, so like a golden retriever. No, not that big. Smaller.

Yeah. He's like medium size on the smaller side. Yeah. But he's full of muscles. He's very, very strong. He's a really nice dog. As perfect as we could imagine. Very good temperament. Well, I mean, I don't know. This is not the end of the show. I just want to say for those of you who know dog types, if you know a well-toasted dog that is very muscular but not very big and you know what kind of dog that is, please email us at welovethebridge at gmail.com. We'll be happy to return. Very, very.

Very popular species. Like a bull, a cross between a bulldog and something else. I think he's 80% bulldog. So he's very mild. Very, very quiet. Do you feel protected when you do walk him on a leash or do you walk him off of leash? On the leash. That's demanded by like the community. And do you feel protected by your dog when you're in public? No, I have to protect him. Oh,

What do you mean? How do you mean you have to protect him? OK, so we really love our dog. And I think he's as perfect as we could imagine. But I don't think he's the brave kind of dog. Like we were talking about this just the other day. I think if any of us gets into trouble while outside, I don't think he's brave enough to actually do anything to protect us. I think he'll just flee.

Like himself first. I have two cats. One of them is a scaredy cat. I like to call her a scaredy cat because she's frightened of everything. Even us sometimes. I'll be petting her and she just suddenly gets startled. We saved her from the streets. So she lived on the streets.

She must have had some kind of trauma. The other cat was raised by veterinarians until he was about four or five months and nothing frightens him. And I'm pretty sure if someone broke into our home, he would just annihilate that human. I think my dog will probably stand away like from your the latter cat, like, you know, a long distance away.

And also the funny thing is he's very sensitive to our mood, right? He's always looking at our mood.

And most of the time he's close to us. He will find a sunny spot, you know, where he can stay close to us. But when I start teaching my daughter or watching over homework, like homework time, my dog becomes very alert. And whenever I start to raise my voice, like when I basically whenever my daughter does her math homework, like in about five minutes, the intensity increases.

You feel like the air is becoming hotter and becoming electrified by some kind of vicious energy coming from me between my daughter and I. And my dog will literally pick up his ears. He can sense it. He almost would back off from us. And he would go off to the little box.

that he lived in when he was little. He would like literally curl up. That's like the fetal position for him. And the first, his first place kind of inside the house. He's very sensitive. He, I think he knows that, uh-oh, math time, gotta go. So...

Whenever I raise my voice, he just, you know, he's the first one to just flee the scene, escape from this atmosphere. So no. Well, I have a different question that's related. So I wanted to talk about what are the similarities and differences. And you live in Beijing now, but you grew up in Wuhan and the United States.

But what about crickets? Because here in Beijing, I understand that crickets are quite a fad for young people and the elderly. Are crickets a common pet now still in 2024? Not that I know of. Maybe kids would play with them, like if they're found in the park, but not something you would see on a daily basis. Maybe still old men would, you know how they actually would use bamboo to weave a little home for the crickets?

And I've seen them once or twice outside a shop, like a small restaurant. And you will hear the chirping and we will find that, oh, they have like a little bamboo kind of a cage for a cricket. I think some people just like to have something alive, you know, like a pet, but not too big of a pet that you have to feed him, cook meals for him. But if it's just a cricket or like a goldfish,

They're easy to maintain and they provide like liveliness, right, to your house or your workplace. Interesting question. Next question. In the United States and in the front of many Chinese restaurants, there are fish. And I know that there are a lot of art, especially related to Chinese New Year, about fish, koi fish specifically. Oftentimes, too, when they're swimming around.

Are fish a common pet in China? Yeah. Yeah. My neighbors, they have them and they have these like fancy fish tank that make me, every time I look at it, I feel very dizzy. Yeah.

They have some kind of strange curvature to the glass. But some can get really fancy. And I now have one fish in my place. Yeah, but it's like... Because they drained the pond in the neighborhood. And the fish, I guess, would all be gone. So we saved some. But yeah...

Fish as pets is very, very common here. There are like markets just for fish and birds. So fish and birds and also dogs. Huan Yao Shi Chang. I learned that phrase recently. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And all kinds of crazy looking fish. Some are really pretty. But, you know, when you mentioned Chinese restaurants, I don't know if you're able to tell like what fish are for just for viewing and for good luck and what fish are for eating. Right. They come in different tanks. Yeah.

Yeah, I can tell. I can tell. You can tell, right? Yeah. And Chinese people like fish. You know how for New Year dinner or big dinners, there is usually a fish dish, right? And they come in its entirety with a head and a tail. And that's because the Chinese word for fish means extra. Like you still have some left over. So it carries good meaning. It means that you have surplus, right?

You know, you have more than you need. It's just a good wish. So you always, for every formal meal, there's always fish. Every year you have fish. 鱼,年年有鱼. It's a good wish. Well, I think that is all the time that we have. We covered a lot of ground there and we didn't even cover everything I was hoping to cover. So maybe we can split some of this into a future episode. Thank you so much for your time. Listeners, thank you so much for your time, baby. Interesting talk. Well, thank you, Jason. We'll see you guys next time. Bye. Oh yeah.