Don't Get Swindled on Black Friday
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From The New York Times, you're listening to The Wirecutter Show. I'm Christine Cyr-Clessette. I'm Kyra Blackwell. And I'm Rosie Guerin. And today is a big day for Wirecutter. It's Black Friday. This year, tens of millions of people are expected to go online or on foot to shop for Black Friday deals. And as is the case every year, people are going to spend money, a lot of it.

This year, the National Retail Federation is projecting over $900 billion will have been spent in November and December alone. These days, Black Friday has come to refer to an almost entire week of deals, today through Cyber Monday. And while it's the single biggest shopping weekend of the year, it's also a day that's become increasingly confusing for shoppers. More days of advertised sales,

bigger pile of things to sift through. Plus, retailers have gotten really good at the game, to the point where much of what looks like a deal that's too good to be true actually is too good to be true. So every year, our entire newsroom, about 100 journalists across dozens of beats, scours the internet to find true bargains. And every year, there's one person whose job it is to oversee all of this. And he's here with us today.

Senior Deals Editor Nathan Burrow. Hi, everyone. Hi. Hey. Thank you. So, Nathan, can you tell us how...

deal sweeping works and what you guys are up to on Black Friday? Absolutely. During Black Friday and Cyber Monday, my team is going through all of the potential deals that are flagged by our expert editorial staff. We are also searching organically out in the world. We're checking price alerts that we've set in order to identify price drops. And so really it's about going through

The thousands upon thousands of sales that we see out there, vetting those sales and then identifying the ones that are actually real price drops. Okay, so can you start by telling us exactly how many products you've reviewed this year? Well, we don't know quite yet because we're recording prior to Black Friday coming to a close. But I can tell you that last year,

we reviewed 147,712 potential deals. And it's never failed to grow year over year. So it'll probably be a little more than that this year.

Wow, that is so many products, Nathan. And of those, how many did we actually recommend? Ultimately, we only recommended 1,344. And that's about 1%, which is pretty consistent in terms of the percentage that we identify that are real deals over the years. That is wild. Broad strokes, what are you actually looking for? How does something make the cut?

it has to be a substantial discount a meaningful discount on of course a quality product let me give you an example the ue wonderboom 4 that's wirecutter's top portable bluetooth speaker right now it's on sale i don't know if you hear my air quotes there but it's on sale very regularly at 80. but we've observed the price fall to 75 on a few occasions it's been as low as 70 on one occasion

And since products in the Bluetooth speaker category tend to gradually fall in price from the time that they're released, we think a reasonable target for the speaker right now is $70 to $75. We're looking for around about the lowest price we've ever seen. $80, which is consistently framed as a sale by retailers, is not a real discount anymore.

That is so tricky. So you're actually, when you're looking for the deals that you're going to feature on our deals page, you're actually looking for deals that are significantly lower than the lowest prices you've seen all year, right? Yes. Typically, we look for something that either matches or betters that lowest price we've seen all year. And on Black Friday, you'll see a lot of retailers offer what appears to be the best price of the year, 30 to 40%.

But that's not actually true. Often they're overstating the full price because they inflate the list price. So it's actually usually a smaller percentage than that, more like 10% to 15% off the regular street price. And we're looking for something that's even better than that 10% to 15% in order to make our cut. Really interesting.

It's going to vary from product category to product category. So for something like a MacBook Air, which can retail for over $1,000 depending on the configuration, a 10% discount can be really impactful. But for something under $100, we prefer much larger discounts percentage-wise because we want the amount saved to be meaningful. And ultimately, if you go through the deals that we post during Black Friday, Cyber Monday, this entire week, the average percentage off

we generally settle on is around 20 to 25%. It's a far cry from the massive discount percentages that a lot of retailers will claim they're giving you, but it's really a realistic percentage off that is truly, it's some of the better pricing of the year. And we find that that's consistent across product categories during Black Friday.

Are there any new categories you're recommending this year? Yes. So Wirecutter has started to recommend a lot more in the way of apparel and cosmetics and gifts. You'll probably see more deals highlighted on drugstore cosmetics, makeup, and other beauty items from Ulta and Sephora this holiday season.

Nathan, has this job gotten easier or harder over the years? Unfortunately, it's gotten harder. There are more retailers involved than ever before in these big deal events. And the shopping experience is honestly more opaque than ever before. And so we're trying to sort of puncture the hype. We're trying to identify the real stuff. And the sales have also gotten longer, which

makes for some confusing dynamics for shoppers. We saw early Black Friday sales start around the turn of the month between October and November. And so

Really, at that point, it's about identifying what you should wait until Black Friday to purchase. Because a lot of retailers will count on you to sort of not take advantage of price protection policies that are in place. Even if you got a sale November 1st and there's a price protection policy in place that would allow you to get refunded, they sort of count on you not taking advantage of that, not going back in store and getting refunded the difference when the price drops another 10% on Black Friday.

So when that dynamic exists, it puts the onus back on the shopper to take action to get that difference refunded. And in a sense, it kind of operates like a rebate where shoppers, you know, they may take advantage of it, but they often don't. In that sense, retailers are potentially ensuring that they're able to pad the bottom line a little bit. I imagine also the job has gotten harder because there are these other companies

quote-unquote, holidays that pop up throughout the year. Yeah. At this point, there are three different Amazon Prime events that pop up throughout the year, as opposed to the one when I started at Wirecutter. And then during those windows, we're seeing sales from other major retailers like Best Buy, like Target, Walmart, and of course, the

The smaller retailers and direct-to-consumer retailers get in on the act at various points throughout the year as well, especially during the Black Friday and Cyber Monday window. Okay, so, Nathan, let's get into why it's gotten so hard to find an actually good deal. So there are three main reasons, and the first one is...

related to price and how it's presented. And that's the MSRP, probably seen that abbreviation. It stands for Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price. So basically, in a nutshell, the MSRP is the term used for prices suggested by manufacturers for retailers. Those retailers pay wholesale prices

and then they mark the price up to a price of their choosing. In the modern day, MSRP is often ignored by retailers in favor of their own pricing approach. So you'll see list prices that are totally divorced from MSRP. I will say it's often used as a benchmark to set pricing or to give the perception of a discount. And we've all heard those ads from car dealers that tout their price versus MSRP. More often than not, it's really just another form of discount manipulation.

So how does your team work around this to get to the true discount? So we use something called street price. And that's a term we use for what we perceive the everyday price of a given product to be. If there are a lot of price swings, we tend to use an average for the street price. So something that's 40 one week and then 50 the next and then back to 40 would have a street price of 45. Our goal is to just identify what a reader needs

would pay on a normal basis without the price manipulation that you might see in making the list price or the full price seem like more than it is.

And earlier you said that there are three main reasons why it's so hard to find a good deal. What's the second reason it's so hard to discern a true bargain from a fake one? So this one is another acronym, largely on the manufacturers, and it's called MAP pricing, which stands for minimum advertised price. So in order for a retailer to carry a manufacturer's product,

They will often broker an agreement where the retailer cannot openly advertise a price that is lower than a price that is predetermined by the manufacturer. Retailers have ways to get around that. So you'll see things like on-page coupons when you go to a product listing or verbiage that indicates that the sale price will reflect only when you add something to cart.

What that creates is a situation where it actually makes it harder for people that are shopping online to identify something that's on sale readily. And some retailers might want to advertise and give you a better price, but they can't. And so in a sense, it's a little anti-competitive because it disincentivizes them in terms of offering a price so good, it'll set the market and get you as a shopper through the door because you have to be there on site already to see it.

And so if you can't see it before you're there, there's really no reason for them to try to push to provide this rock bottom price. This makes determining the price, the everyday price of a product difficult and sometimes impossible from a shopping search. So customers don't have ready access to information about pricing when they're going around shopping on the Internet casually.

So they cannot openly present a price that's lower than a certain price point. So how do they find what the lowest is that a manufacturer or retailer is willing to present? A lot of retailers out there will track other retailers' pricing. And so there's a lot of... Amazon is probably the best example of a company that is really algorithmically...

tracked the pricing of other major retailers out there, immediately matches that pricing, and as a result is trying to make itself the only game in town. They will match a Walmart price if Walmart drops price to a certain point. They will match a Best Buy price if Best Buy drops its price to a certain point. And so in that sense, retailers track one another, which sets the market, but it does not drop below that map pricing anymore

unless they decide to take one of those extraordinary measures and have that on-page coupon or have the price that reflects in cart. Nathan, where do you see this kind of thing in its most nefarious form? Like, how can you, as a non-deals editor, spot these?

One of the things that you have to look out for is definitely that verbiage that exists on our product listing page. And so while it might take a little bit of additional effort, it's worth clicking through on the retailer of your choice to see if the product listing has that coupon verbiage or if there's verbiage on that product listing page that says, you know, see price in cart or deal price reflects in cart.

And then you can go ahead and take the additional steps to ensure that that price is what you hoped it would be. Okay, so you really have to do your due diligence. Nathan, what's the third thing you really want to look out for?

Unfortunately, things that are cheap, like blowout TVs and clearance bin items and stuff like that, things that are cheap during Black Friday might actually be cheap as in cheaply made.

During Black Friday, if you want a TV, it's a stereotype, but every year we see the big discounts on those cheapo models. Sometimes they're brand names that you've never even heard of. And retailers will often show them side by side with brand name models that are better. And for the uninitiated, they tend to look the same. They're even...

Models within the same line of television where some models are from a given brand are good and some models are specifically released around the holiday season or are released to be a model that can potentially be discounted to an incredibly low price, but they're of lower quality. And that's something that you have to bear in mind and be cautious of when you're shopping.

So given that as a shopper, you might be seeing a page that has a photo of one model, but you might be actually buying something else. It's really important to do your homework and look for the features you want. Don't just trust the photo, right?

100%. Especially if you're looking at things like sales periodicals, which are omnipresent during the season. We recommend that you click through, that you actually read reviews, that you look at specific model numbers and features to identify the PV model or the model of any other electronic that works this way so that you're able to make sure that you get a quality item. Can you explain what a sales periodical is?

Yeah, absolutely. So for years and years, there were retailers like Target and even a Walgreens or a Costco would have like a physical booklet, and many, some of them still do, that shows you the products that will be on sale. It's generally broken out by category. And it was sort of a pre-internet way to get people into brick and mortar stores.

Now those periodicals, they're released in advance of an event like Bike Friday. Sometimes those advertisements are meant to get you there in the hopes that you'll stay there. I...

I kind of always thought that those sales periodicals were just meant to go directly into the recycling bin and not into my home. That's what they do at my house. Yeah. Or for the fire. But you might find some good deals in there. So worth a look. All right. We're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we're going to talk with Nathan all about the types of products you're likely to find most heavily discounted today on Black Friday and throughout the weekend, as well as some of the products you should probably avoid.

You're listening to The Wirecutter Show. New episodes drop every Wednesday, wherever you listen to podcasts. We'll be right back.

This podcast is brought to you by Apple Pay. During the holidays, I'm a big online shopper thanks to Apple Pay. And that's because I don't have to waste time typing all my info into those long checkout forms. Plus, Apple Pay is made to be secure thanks to the built-in technology of Face ID, which is designed so that only I can authorize payments. This season, do what I do and pay the Apple way. Apple Pay is a service provided by Apple Payment Services, LLC, a subsidiary of Apple Inc. Any card used in Apple Pay is offered by the card issuer.

New York Times cooking is great for when I have something in my refrigerator and I don't know what to do with it. I love sheet pan bibimbap. It said 35 minutes. It was 35 minutes. A weeknight dinner for us. I love the chicken coconut curry. It's a really easy meal. It's super versatile. I can make it a fully vegetarian dish. This turkey chili has over 17,000 five-star ratings. So easy, so delicious. Doing everything in one pot, even like a grain.

with the chicken, with the vegetable, helps the flavors, makes the cleanup easier 'cause it's only one pot. - The cucumber salad with soy, ginger and garlic. Oh my God, that is just to die for. - If I wanna go easy, I can find something easy. If I wanna go a little more complex, I can go there as well. - The instructions are so clear, so simple, and it just works. - Recipes from "New York Times" cooking are more reliable and more delicious, really.

Hey, it's Eric Kim from New York Times Cooking. Come cook with us. Go to NYTCooking.com. The best pizza dough on earth. Welcome back to The Wirecutter Show. In today's episode, we're breaking down Black Friday with Wirecutter's Senior Deals Editor, Nathan Burrow.

Nathan, before the break, you said your team posts deals in every category Wirecutter covers, over 40 categories. Of these, which are the ones that are most likely to have the best deals? Well, the good news is you'll find pretty good deals on almost every product category. But historically, we've found particularly good deals in two categories. One would be small kitchen appliances.

And the other is electronics like TVs, laptops, etc. Why is that? To a degree, there is an element of unloading merchandise, especially with the electronics product category. Many electronics like tablets, laptops, headphones, they get refreshed pretty regularly on a yearly basis. So clearing old stock can become important for retailers and they're able to discount those items more substantially as they age.

That's slightly less the case with small kitchen appliances, but the margins on kitchen appliances are such that I think they can really afford to discount them by quite a bit during a Black Friday or Cyber Monday. Nathan, I am a renter, so I'm not really looking to buy appliances right now. What else is good to buy on Black Friday?

Black Friday is unexpectedly a great time to get deals on regular stuff, those everyday essentials. It might be strange to see an amazing deal on, you know, toys for your dog alongside deals on a MacBook, but it does happen. I love Black Friday for the regular stuff. I actually one year bought, I don't know, something like 240 pounds of kitty litter because it was six.

40-pound bags of kitty litter, and it was $7 off each, and I was like, I'm going to snap these up. So yes, it's a great time to buy things like, you know, just batteries, kitty litter, you know, the normal stuff. Are there any categories specifically to avoid? Like, categories that just never have a good deal? So if you're somebody who is always looking for the latest and greatest tech, Black Friday might not be great for you in that respect. Yeah.

Laptops with M4 chips, the newest iPhone, stuff like that, they may see small introductory discounts, but most of the time, they don't see discounts that we're going to see later as we get farther away from those release dates. The other product categories that don't see discounts on Black Friday itself are from brands or retailers that...

do not participate in the event. And those do exist. They are usually outdoor retailers, we found. So REI does not have Black Friday sales. Patagonia also does not participate in Black Friday. But they also have annual events of their own, like REI's anniversary sale, that will allow you to get the best deals of the year on their stuff.

So, Nathan, another part of doing your homework as someone who's shopping for a deal is to understand the model that you're looking for, the model number specifically, and to try to find that model when you're doing your shopping, right? Yes. I was just doing this yesterday, in fact, with one of our waffle maker picks yesterday.

Basically what I do and what I would recommend that shoppers do is I match the exact model number from the review that you're looking at or from the ad that you're looking at against the model number that you see at the product listing. And that's a way to guarantee that you're getting exactly what you wanted. And as a result, you're getting the features that you wanted and you're getting the quality of product that you wanted because you've matched up those model numbers to ensure that it's the exact same thing.

I've heard that browser extensions can help you find a better deal. Can you tell us about browser extensions? What are they? Do they work? And if so, how and how well? So browser extensions are to the right of your search bar. There's a little icon. As you travel around the internet, it basically registers what you're looking at. It's like an app that a

accompanies your browsing online. You may have seen these coupon-based extensions, and the biggest ones are Honey and Capital One. More or less the way those work is when you take an item to cart, they will provide either internally sourced or crowdsourced suggestions for coupon codes you can use at checkout

that have worked previously. Those extensions will work and we use them to identify potential coupon codes that we can surface for our readers. They're free, but

Just be aware that nothing is really free on the Internet. Really what they're doing is they're tracking your browsing information as many extensions do. The other thing that these extensions do is when you utilize them and when you click on them in order to get the additional tracking information or in order to get the coupon, they will ultimately collect the affiliate revenue associated with you purchasing that product. So they get a little percentage of

what you spent on the product that you ultimately purchased if you used the extensions. We're going to take a quick break. And on the other side, the number one thing to avoid when you're looking to score deals and savings on Black Friday and throughout the weekend. You're listening to The Wirecutter Show. We'll be right back.

This podcast is brought to you by Apple Pay. During the holidays, I'm a big online shopper thanks to Apple Pay. And that's because I don't have to waste time typing all my info into those long checkout forms. Plus, Apple Pay is made to be secure thanks to the built-in technology of Face ID, which is designed so that only I can authorize payments. This season, do what I do and pay the Apple way. Apple Pay is a service provided by Apple Payment Services, LLC, a subsidiary of Apple Inc. Any card used in Apple Pay is offered by the card issuer.

Welcome back to The Wirecutter Show. Our guest today is Wirecutter's Senior Deals Editor, Nathan Burrow. We've spent this episode discussing all the different ways to find deals on your own, not just today and through the weekend, but throughout the year. Nathan, if there was one thing you would caution folks to avoid this weekend, what would that be? Be careful of getting stuck in the sort of Google shopping cul-de-sac. Pete

People think that they're doing comparison shopping when they enter something in to a Google search. But in truth, it's not as broad a selection of options as they think it is. They have incentives to send you to retailers and provide you with information that may not serve you best. They'll show you the retailers they want you to see. They'll show you, as a result, the prices that they want you to see. So, Nathan,

When you're speaking about the Google cul-de-sac, you're talking about, you know, I want to buy a Le Creuset Dutch oven this Black Friday. I shouldn't just Google Le Creuset Dutch oven and assume that what I see at the top of that page or what I see at the first page.

page of results is going to present me with places I can find the best deal on a Dutch oven. Exactly. Just like a brick and mortar retailer, Google now, they are incentivized to sort of put things where you can see them the most. And so it's something that I caution shoppers about. You know, they need to know that there's more than just what they'll see from that initial page. We recommend doing some further digging.

All right, Nathan, before we wrap, we usually ask all our guests to tell us about the last thing they bought that they really loved.

But since this isn't a typical episode, I want to go off script and ask if there's anything you're planning to buy today or this weekend with an epic Black Friday discount. So one of the things that I'm looking for this weekend is an awesome deal on a turntable. I am looking in particular at one of our picks from a company called Projects. I had a turntable that served me well for many years, but I'm finally looking to upgrade. Very cool. Very cool.

Nathan, thanks so much. Nathan Burrow is Wirecutter's Senior Deals Editor. Thank you, thank you. Get back to work. Just kidding. Have a great weekend.

Thank you.

You can check out Wirecutter's coverage of Black Friday deals at nytimes.com slash Wirecutter. And of course, you can find and follow The Wirecutter Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or again, wherever you like to listen. New episodes drop every Wednesday. That's it for us. I'm Rosie Guerin. I'm Cara Blackwell. And I'm Christine Cyr-Closet. The Wirecutter Show is executive produced by me, Rosie Guerin, and produced by Abigail Keel. Editing by Abigail Keel.

Engineering support from Maddie Mazziello and Nick Pittman. Today's episode was mixed by Dan Powell, original music by Marion Lozano, Alicia Baetube, Dan Powell, and Diane Wong. And here's what's coming up next week on The Wirecutter Show. When you're thinking about these affordable gifts, you want to be thinking about, would the person think this costs $25? Or does it seem like it would cost a lot more than $25 to get something this great? That is a good sign. Thank you for listening.

Bye.