Experiences on the ground of the California wildfires
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Darren Kennedy is with me now. Darren, of course, well known to all of you as the TV host. He's currently working, though, over in Los Angeles. Darren, you're welcome to the show despite the circumstances. How close are you or not to these wildfires?

Well, each day differs, to be honest. I'm in a safe zone. I'm about 15 kilometers from the Palisades fires. So that was the first one that broke out. And I guess to put that in context for people, it's imagine you're standing at the GPO and you're

the Pacific Palisades is roughly about 15 kilometres out. So probably where Malahide is, if people know where that is in relation to the GPO. So it's quite a distance. But the night, I think it was Wednesday night, my days are a bit mixed up now. I went to the roof of the building I'm in and I looked in that direction and you could see the blaze. It was phenomenal. The size of the flames, like whipping up by the wind. It was very dynamic fire, obviously.

And that was terrifying to see. It kind of felt like you were looking at a movie scene. It was kind of hard to kind of comprehend that it's within your eyesight. And then obviously there was a massive cloud of smoke, which the following day kind of, in many respects, blocked out the light.

And then that evening, there was the sunset fire is what it's called, which is in Hollywood. Now that's about 1.5 kilometers from where I am. So that was very, very close. And then evacuation orders were issued and traffic went crazy and people were leaving town. Now where I am was literally probably two blocks outside of the evacuation order. And I noticed that some people in this area, a lot of people in this area did evacuate as well.

And I just kept a close eye on it. Now, as it happens, that's that fire. And anyone who's been to L.A. will probably be familiar with Runyon Canyon and obviously the Hollywood sign and all of that. So that was all that area. So very close to a densely populated area. The winds that day were less intense.

intense, which I think helped in the effort. But I had friends who have homes up in the hill who had to evacuate. And thankfully their house was fine. But I've some other friends, actually a house I was in up in Pacific Palisades,

only a couple of weeks ago doing some work, which I believe has been completely razed to the ground. There's nothing, nothing left of it. Yeah, it's very tragic. It's very devastating. The pictures are kind of apocalyptic. The scenes were very apocalyptic. Well, what's the atmosphere like elsewhere in the city? I mean, are there parts of it, LA is so huge and sprawling. I mean, there must be a degree of just people going about their business, but this has to hang over everybody, does it?

It is, yeah. I mean, there's definitely an eerie sense in the air, at least where I am. But it does feel like a bit of a tale of two cities, though, because, you know, gyms are open. People are going to restaurants. People are getting on with their lives. The gardeners are out blowing the leaves, as they do, and waking you up in the morning. So there is...

there is the two sides of it. And then there's obviously, you know, tens of thousands of people who are displaced. There is a nice sense of community though, I have to say, and I'm hearing lots of acts of generosity. You know, people are opening up their homes to those who have been, who have lost theirs, you know, offering to shelter animals, restaurants offering free food, you know, so there is that spirit. But then I guess on the flip side of that, we're hearing stories of,

looters taking advantage of the fires and people having evacuated their homes, which really feels like the underbelly of humanity, I have to say. And then quite apart from that, I mean, the air quality is very bad.

And so you're being advised not to spend any unnecessary time outside and wear a mask. People who have like asthma and breathing problems are absolutely advised to not spend much time outside. And yes, you can really feel it. Actually, I had a little burning sensation in the back of my throat yesterday. So they're saying there's all these little, you know, the particles.

But, you know, I'm looking at the window there now. It's the beginning of the morning or mid-morning, should I say, about 8, 8.20. It's a beautiful blue sky. And over in the distance, in the direction of the Pacific Palisades, I can still see kind of what looks like light cloud. But we know it's not light cloud. It's that cloud of smoke.

But listen, Darren, stay safe and we might talk to you again in a few days. Teddy Leonard is with us as well. Teddy is an owner of The Real Inn in Malibu. Teddy, tell us what happened, your business.

Well, the fire jumped very, very quickly over Topanga Canyon Boulevard and sparked behind our business. Our manager was there. It was in the morning. The crew was there and the firefighters showed up. My husband was watching on the cameras because we had received an evacuation alert for our home.

So we were up packing up the house, and the firefighters told our crew, you know, you need to go now. And our manager described looking back, and the flames were already engulfing the back of the building before she'd reached her car. My husband watched on the camera that we had on the deck,

It's a tablecloth caught fire. And then obviously the cameras went black because the building went very, very quickly. You know, there's people have sent us footage of the fire engulfing the building and as it burned down and it was very violent.

It was it was there's no way these firefighters could have. You know, there's a lot of criticism of the firefighters right now. And I have to say they're brave. They're doing their jobs. There's not enough water due to the drought. But there's no way with 100 mile an hour winds and sparks flying all over that they could really have gotten a handle on this. It's expecting too much.

I mean, when there are people losing their lives, is there a sense, Teddy, of, well, listen, it's only the business we can rebuild? Or, you know, is there still that devastation of seeing it going up in smoke?

Well, you know, it's interesting that you asked that, Alex, because we don't know if we'll be able to rebuild because we run state park lands. We own the building, we own the business, but we don't own the land. So it's up to them whether or not we'll be allowed back in, if we'll be allowed to rebuild. Our community has rallied around us in a way that...

brings me to tears every day now in the last two days. People, the outpouring of love and compassion and support has been huge. And, you know, we didn't realize that the culture my husband had created for 36 years was

everyone feels like the restaurant was theirs. They all had a sense of ownership. We have people posting pictures of themselves as babies on the deck with their parents and now pictures of themselves as parents with their babies on the deck. So it was, it was a place that everybody, uh, called home. And, you know, if we could rebuild that, we would love to, um,

I honestly, I don't know. As I said, we're still evacuated down into Santa Monica. Our home is in Topanga and they have not, there's still fire up there. So we're waiting to hear if we're going to be able to go home or not. So you don't know whether your home is safe yet at the moment? No, we don't. Okay. And the last you heard, how close was the fire to your home?

Well, the last we heard it was the fire was in the town of Topanga, which is about, as the crow flies, maybe a mile and a half from our home.

Okay. So luckily, the winds seem to have calmed down today. They seem much calmer. Last night, they had kicked back up, so there was great concern. Now that the winds have calmed down, we should have a report soon as to whether or not our house is still there and whether or not we'll be able to return home. My son's apartment burned in Malibu with all of his possessions in it. You know, everyone...

Everyone in the city is dealing with this. And for the most part, there's great love and support coming from everyone. But there is also price gouging on rentals. There's looting. You get both sides of humanity in a situation like this.

And I appreciate the issue you have with the business is one thing. When you look at the images on our TV screens or photographs online or newspapers and it's kind of apocalyptic, devastation of huge, big neighbourhoods, absolutely razed to the ground. You know, the other side of that is for anybody who's been there, I mean, it is absolutely a beautiful, beautiful part of the world. Do you suspect it's just a case of rebuilding, that most people will just go in and rebuild? Yeah.

As much as they will allow, I don't think anyone's going to be able to get insurance after this, but as much as people can, I believe they will because it's such a beautiful part of the world. As you said, it's just gorgeous. The Palisades and Malibu, there's a reason people come from all over the world to spend time there. It's somewhat like the Amalfi Coast. It's

Beautiful. It's very beautiful. And I believe that people will come back. I believe that we'll... A different version, maybe a better version. We'll see.

All right. Well, listen, Teddy, we wish you well with all of that, with the business, with rebuilding of it, hopefully. And we hope for good news on your behalf when it comes to your home in Topanga. Reva Duncan is with us as well. Reva is a vice president with Grassroots Wildland Firefighters and a retired firefighter with the US Forest Service. Reva, can you talk us through...

What the firefighters are going to be experiencing at the moment and what they've been experiencing, what that would be like for them the last few days. And I really appreciated Teddy's comment about the firefighters doing everything they can, because, of course, there's a lot of finger pointing and criticism. But, you know, as she said, and it's very astute of her to observe this, when the winds are blowing that hard,

In that situation, there's little the firefighters can do to actually, you know, stop or put out the fire.

So what happens in those circumstances is then they shift to lifesaving. You know, they are evacuating people. They are rescuing pets, helping with livestock. Some of them are fighting fire where they can, where they have water and where it makes sense as the managers and incident commanders develop strategies for this kind of situation. And these firefighters, many of them have been out since this started with no break, not much rest.

They're running out of food that they carry in their vehicles. I've seen some food trucks feeding some of the firefighters, which is wonderful. But they are up against it and they're giving it their all. And it's also, you know, we talk about

We talk more and more about the trauma to firefighters witnessing this kind of devastation and destruction. You know, firefighters don't like to see homes burned down. They don't want people to lose everything. And it'll hit them a little bit later. Right now they're in they're in work mode and they're giving it their all. But this will have long term effects on firefighters as well. I.

Now, when you're dealing with a massive conflagration like this, you know, that's, you know, when the winds are that high, they're burning out of control. To what extent is the strategy to tackle the actual flames or to try and kind of cut them off, as it were?

Yeah, the strategy is to try to cut them off. And they're looking out ahead of the fire, planning for when the winds do die down, and they've died down somewhat, right, and looking at then where they can make a stand and where they can start to put some containment lines into these fires.

And so, you know, there what I tell people is the homes have now become the fuel driving the fires as the fires leave the wildland, as the fires leave the brushlands and the forest lands and come into these urban areas. Now, what is spreading the fire are buildings.

buildings made of wood, roofs. And so it's the buildings and the embers from the burning buildings that are now, you know, blowing ahead and catching other buildings on fire. And so that's a different kind of firefighting. And firefighters throughout Southern California are the best in the world at this. They deal with this a lot.

And so, again, they look at when the winds are blowing, when it's when the winds are too high for aircraft, the firefighters are then shifting again to what we call point protection. So seeing where they can maybe make a stand and stop the forward progress in neighborhoods. So putting out structure fires, right?

shifting to further out ahead of the fire and making a stand there. And so, you know, even if people feel like they don't see where the firefighters are or they're not using any water, I can guarantee you they're working very hard and they're working in a lot of places where people probably just don't see them. In parts of the world like this, where there's a danger of fires, forest fires or wildfires spreading into suburban areas,

Do we need to be conscious of that when it comes to urban planning? So again, I'm going to mention the pictures that we're all seeing on our screens and you can see all the plots, the foundations of the houses that have been raised to the ground. And as you said, they're side by side by side, which is how the fire spreads. I mean, were they built in kind of blocks with some sort of parkland or break around?

or even kind of, you know, municipal sports facilities in between them into chunks of houses. You could see how that might kind of halt or slow down the spread of a fire. Is that something that maybe should be incorporated into Rebuild?

Absolutely should be. And every time there's a large wildfire that burns into a community, oftentimes California, but not just California, those discussions always come up. And there's talk about, you know, zoning, changing zoning laws, changing building codes, requiring certain things in construction, right, a metal roof or different screens on the house.

And it's frustrating because there's a lot of enthusiastic talk about that immediately after these things happen. But so far, things aren't then put into requirements or legislation. There are groups that lobby against that because of cost or whatever. It's it's maddening because there are a lot of things that can be done in some of the older neighborhoods. You know, that wasn't a thought. Right. Because people didn't even expect things like this to happen. So that wasn't being done and planning necessary.

you know, decades ago. But we all know that there are

There's, you know, encroaching into the wildland, building more and more out into these wildlands. And unfortunately, most places aren't making a conscious decision to look at that. There are some places they're isolated, but it's not widespread enough to make a make a huge difference so far. And we also talk about the responsibility of homeowners. Right. And keeping the brush cut back from their roofs and not stacking firewood up against their house.

and things that homeowners can do to proactively try to at least, you know, give their house a better chance of surviving something like this. You know, this is so extreme, but there are already, I just saw a news report this morning where houses, you know, that have somehow withstood, around them everything's burned, and their newer construction where the people just took it upon themselves to work with a builder to put some of those building blocks

into place. And some of those houses have survived even under this kind of catastrophic conditions. All right. Well, listen, Riva, thank you so much for speaking to us in such detail about all of that. Riva Duncan's vice president with Grassroots Wildlife and Firefighters and a retired firefighter with the U.S. Forest Service. Before Riva, we spoke to Teddy Leonard, owner of the Reel Inn in Malibu in California, which has burned to the ground. And Darren Kennedy, the well-known Irish firefighter

a TV host who's currently working over in LA. Thank you all for speaking to us.