The Gladiator of Acting: Denzel Washington | 60 Minutes: A Second Look
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I'm Bill Whitaker. That sounds familiar. I've heard that. If you've been watching 60 Minutes for the past 10 years, you've probably heard that too. This job never gets old. You're always going to interesting places and meeting people.

the most interesting people. So it's, it's a wonderful, wonderful job. Of the interesting people, folks that you've spoken with, we're talking about Denzel Washington. He certainly ranks up there. He does. He does indeed. I understand you're a, a big fan of the first gladiator film. Yeah, I'm a, I'm a big fan of the first gladiator film. As a matter of fact, it was, uh, it was on just this past week. I, uh,

started off saying I was only going to watch the beginning of it and before I knew it I'd watch the whole thing again. Denzel Washington's in the new Gladiator, Gladiator 2, which is just coming out now. He plays Macrinus, this ex-Gladiator who wants to control Rome, desires to be emperor, kind of a businessman, arms dealer, power broker. Whose head could I give you that would satisfy this fury? The entire Roman armies. Too much.

Will you see it? Oh yeah. Bill Whitaker knows a thing or two about Denzel Washington. He interviewed him in 2016. Does it make you happy that your work is recognized? What's your reaction to that? Well, it's all a part of that. We're sitting here doing 60 Minutes, so my work is recognized, you know. Touché.

This was Washington's third appearance on 60 Minutes in a 16-year span. That's pretty unusual. You look at other major stars. Meryl Streep wasn't interviewed three times. Tom Hanks wasn't. Al Pacino wasn't. What is it about Denzel? I think it's because he's just that good. I mean, you never walk away thinking he was acting that role. You walk away thinking he was that character.

That's a real skill. Denzel, sort of the whole package. He's got that it, whatever it is. Coincidentally, just a day before talking with Bill, I was in Dublin for CBS Sunday Morning interviewing Paul Meskel, who stars opposite Denzel Washington in Gladiator 2. Every scene I did with him was never how I expected it to go, which is the dream. It was very thrilling to be five feet in front of his face watching him do that.

Tell me, what do you mean? Explain that. I mean how I think many other actors would have played that part could have been achieved in a very like kind of successful fashion but the fact that he kind of made this like Shakespearean, Machiavellian twist on it that was like so funny and colourful and magnetic in a way that made you as an audience that you should typically like want to run away from him, you're going towards him, is like amazing.

The clip you just played just sort of reminded me of Training Day, where he was this menacing yet compelling figure. It's like you knew he was danger.

but you couldn't turn away. It's kind of remarkable. So remarkable that the New York Times hailed Washington as the greatest actor of the 21st century. But what about Denzel Washington off screen? After looking through the 60 Minutes archives, we found quite a lot that never aired, starting from his time being interviewed by 60 Minutes correspondent Ed Bradley 25 years ago. Ed Bradley

You've done what, about 30 movies now? I think 25. 25. Why so few romantic? I'm not offered any. There were conversations about his early career. He was a veteran film director. You were a novice actor, and you were going to tell him how to shoot? It was an acting moment, you know, and I was right. LAUGHTER

as well as comparisons to trailblazing black actors like Sidney Poitier. I would almost be insulted by that to say, oh, you're like the next Sidney. I'm like, oh, you mean there's been nobody in between? He's the only one? Today on 60 Minutes, a second look, the gladiator of film, Denzel Washington. The iconic actor, producer and director shares his craft and much of the discussion you'll hear for the very first time.

You ready to get in here, Eddie? I'm enjoying this out here.

Come on, come on, come on. Back in 1999, 60 Minutes correspondent Ed Bradley stepped into the boxing ring. What do you want me to do? We won't do it. No hard punches. You don't even have to wrap him up. Okay. Because you won't do anything. Bradley had already interviewed the greatest boxer, Muhammad Ali, a few years earlier. But on this particular day, he was interviewing one of the greatest actors, Denzel Washington.

It's another day. There's happened to be some cameras here. I'm working out. Out of shape. I'm out of shape. I'm bluffing right now. I'm really tired.

Denzel Washington hardly looked out of shape, but even more striking was Ed Bradley's appearance, wearing a muscle tee and shorts. Looks pretty good to me for a guy in his late 50s wearing gym clothes. That's Bill Whitaker. I'm now several years older than that, and you're not going to see me dress like that. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

It is unusual to see him not in the kind of typical, you expect 60 minutes correspondence, always in at least the shirt and suit, if not tie and shirt and suit. He was getting into the moment. Yeah, it looks pretty good there. How would you characterize Ed Bradley as a journalist, as a correspondent? You know, he had a central core of decency. And he was not just curious about

but he cared about people, their stories, cared about the truth. And you just felt that. He was not just telling these people's stories. He was trying to get at what makes these people tick, get at the essence of them so he can

relay that on television. As to why Bradley and Washington chose to chat in a boxing gym, well, Washington was promoting his latest film, The Hurricane, in which he played the wrongfully convicted fighter, Reuben Hurricane Carter. My job was to take all the hatred and skill that I could muster and send a man to his destruction. And I did that. But Reuben Hurricane Carter is no murderer.

In 1999, the 45-year-old Washington was still in search of that elusive Best Actor Oscar. Denzel, people describe you in this community today, the Hollywood community, as one of the top dramatic actors in Hollywood. What is it that you bring to the table that you think maybe some others don't? What sets you apart? I don't know, because I don't really know what the others are doing, to be honest with you.

I've been blessed with an ability and I'm committed at this point in my life more so than ever to recognize that I have been blessed with an ability and to work hard at my craft. He got his start on stage in the 1970s. When did acting click for you? Was there a moment when you said, oh, wow, maybe this is it? Immediately. Basically, I was a junior in college.

Fordham University at Lincoln Center. By 1981, he was starring in Charles Fuller's Pulitzer Prize-winning work, A Soldier's Play, alongside Samuel L. Jackson. As a result of doing A Soldier's Play, I got St. Elsewhere. I was in A Soldier's Play while I was doing St. Elsewhere. I also got the job in A Soldier's Story, which was an Oscar-nominated film, and I think other things came as a result of that. Even as a young theater actor, Washington told Bradley he believed in his instincts.

Norman Jewison said that when he was shooting A Soldier's Story that he wanted at one point to do a scene a certain way and that you objected. You objected strenuously. You remember that? Yeah, he was going to fire me. As a young man, as a young actor going up against an older man, an established director, it would take a certain amount of confidence. Some might even say arrogance to take him on. How did you see it?

Just got to speak up. I mean, I had a little support, you know, to get me to that point. But in the end, you feel that you were right. I was right. You were right. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with that. Is that arrogant to say you're right? In 1990, he won an Oscar for Best Supporting Actor for the Civil War drama Glory, in which he played a soldier in an all-black military regiment opposite Morgan Freeman and Matthew Broderick.

I ain't fighting this war for you, sir. I see. I mean, what's the point? Ain't nobody gonna win. It's just gonna go on and on. Denzel brought his trademark intensity to a scene where Tripp feels he is to be unjustly punished because he went AWOL to find shoes for other black soldiers. Denzel told us how he prepared for the scene. Basically what I did was got on my knees and sort of communicated with the spirits

of those who had been enslaved, who had been whipped. And when I came out, I was in charge. I said, Tripp was in charge. I said, "If this is what Tripp, if this is what you men, if that's what you call yourselves, want to do to Tripp, then come with it." The guy that was whipping me didn't want to hit me. I said, "Come on, do it." My focus stayed on Matthew, and I even remember him putting his head, I said, "Don't put your head down. You know, you want to whip me? Bring it." That's what came to me, that's what I played.

It's a powerful scene. Powerful scene. I couldn't have acted that. I couldn't have written that down and made a decision to play that. And in 1992, he took on possibly his most well-known role, Malcolm X. We didn't land on Plymouth Rock. Plymouth Rock landed on us. When I read that you were going to play Malcolm, I just couldn't see it. When I saw the movie, you had become Malcolm. How do you do that? I don't know.

I just don't get in the way. The role earned him his first Oscar nomination for Best Actor. He was up against Robert Downey Jr., Clint Eastwood, Stephen Ray, and Al Pacino. You expected to win, didn't you? No, I didn't expect to win. Really? No, I knew I wasn't going to win. Why? Because I knew I could see, I could read the leaves. I could see what was happening. You know, there was a lot of, there was a groundswell of, you know, Al Pacino had been nominated for the 8th time. Had he not won, he would have been 0 for 8th.

You know, I voted for Al Pacino. I wanted to see him win. I did not want to win and see him not win. Most importantly, he deserved to win. I thought he deserved to win 20 years prior. So that's a part of it is, you know, who's to say what the best performance in a particular year is? You can't pick out one.

And yes, everybody says to be nominated is great, but that's nonsense. You want to win. You know you want to win. You know, you're sitting there clapping when they call somebody else's name. And that camera's sitting there. Yeah, you got that, you know, that doo-doo grin on your face. I'm so happy for Al. I'm so happy. I really love him. Then when they go to commercial? They go to commercial. I'm sorry?

No, but he gave me a nice compliment. And, you know, I mean, I grew up in acting terms watching him and, you know, the other, what I consider the great actors like Pacino and Hoffman and De Niro. By 2000, Oscar or no Oscar, many considered him one of those great actors. But it was another actor whose name came up time and time again.

Let me ask you something about someone, constant references to comparisons to you and Sidney Poitier. How do you... What I used to say about him, first of all, it's a great compliment. Sidney has been, especially early in my career, very influential. Poitier had been the first black performer to win the Academy Award for Best Actor. Initially, when people would say that, I would get upset, you know. And the reason was, I said, you know, isn't it a shame?

that there's only one person to be compared to, you know? I would almost be insulted by that, to say, oh, you're like the next Sidney. I'm like, oh, you mean there's been nobody in between? He's the only one? Who else was acting while Sidney was acting? Who else is acting now? I'm not one... I'm not too keen on that, oh, you're the guy kind of thing. You're the this, you're the that. I'm just an actor. He was an actor. There were many other great actors at the time. But...

He was the one for that time, you know, and had a tremendous responsibility as a result. I mean, he carried the torch and had to carry that weight, and I think carried it with dignity and elegance. What do you make of that exchange? I hear exactly what he's saying about the comparison being both a compliment and troubling. This again is 60 Minutes correspondent Bill Whitaker. And...

I would say with Sidney Poitier, he was a man of his time. He had his breakout in the 50s and 60s. Every movie he did was groundbreaking. And I think it's not so much as carrying the torch or passing on the torch, but sort of building blocks. Sidney Poitier may have laid the foundation for

And Denzel Washington adds to the next level. And standing on the shoulders of Sidney Poitier and James Earl Jones, and you go back even farther, you've got Paul Robeson. You feel that today you have to fire the torch and carry on? No, I don't feel that way. Now there's...

Because of him and other actors like him. There are other actors now like Sam Jackson or Lawrence Fishburne or Michael Wright or Will Smith, you know, and other young actors coming along. It's no, I'm not the only one. I don't even, I'm not even the biggest one of that group. Bradley says, you feel that today you have to carry that torch. And Denzel says, no, I don't feel that way. And I think that's generational.

And a good thing that Denzel is able to express all aspects of his life, of human life, of black people, of people in general. He has the opportunities that I don't think Sidney Poitier had. And so passing the torch, I think, is his way of doing that, is to just show excellence.

I felt the pressure of race since 1967 when I started working for WCBS radio. Ed Bradley was the first black correspondent at 60 Minutes, one of the first black journalists on television, period. Here he is in 1993. And too often in this country, we are judged by the color of our skin and not by the content of our character.

People look at someone and will make assumptions based on color. So the pressure is there. It's been there every day of my life. Denzel Washington echoed the same sentiment in his 1999 conversation with Ed Bradley. I see how the playing field is laid out, and it's not level. You know, it's not fair. But it's the way it is. There have been many who have gone before me who had it a lot worse. When you say that the playing field's not level, you think that's because of race? Uh...

Ignorance. I don't just say race. Race is the obvious, you know, because as a black man we can't hide. You know, there are other races that can hide, change their name, or don't say anything. When we show up, you can't change this. There are some that, most, that will treat you fairly. I still think it's the overwhelming majority will.

Do you think that that affects the scripts that you get? Oh, absolutely. Sure. Sure. I don't get that many scripts, first of all. I don't get very many at all. First of all, I find it, you know, kind of flabbergasting that Denzel Washington doesn't get a lot of scripts. I would think that his mailbox would be overflowing with scripts. Yeah, I find that amazing. But yeah, what he's saying, it's like he shows up

It's a black man showing up. It depends if Hollywood can look at a role and see a good actor, a great actor, and not necessarily pin it to that actor's race. Because of the color of his face, Denzel says he doesn't get offered the romantic lead in big-budget Hollywood movies

despite the fact that he's been called one of the sexiest men in Hollywood. You've done, what, about 30 movies now? I think 25. 25. Why so few romantic parts? I've not offered any. Why do you think that is? Well, I think that, again, it comes down to business. I think that if it was a love story with myself and a black woman, it's not big business in Hollywood. So maybe they're not interested in it.

Does it bother you with all of your success, artistic, financial, the dollars that you can command for a role in a film, that you can't play the romantic lead in a big-budget Hollywood movie? No. It doesn't bother me. I don't have to. I don't need to. Can you do sex scenes or you choose not to?

I like to think of it as love scenes. I don't know what a sex scene is. A love scene. Excuse me, a love scene. A love scene. And I have done in Mississippi Masala and even in He Got Game. That was more of a sex scene, I guess. But, you know, again, I go back to less is more. I mean, you know, people take their clothes off for nothing nowadays. So I think there's some, I'm still old fashioned in that regard. I think there should be something left to the imagination.

One kind of role he was interested in was back in the theater. That's where he met Ed Bradley in 2005 for a second interview, this time for 60 Minutes 2. Today, he is headlining on Broadway, appearing in a modern-day production of Shakespeare's Julius Caesar. He plays Brutus, one of the leaders of a plot to kill Caesar. Not that I love Caesar less, but that I love Rome more.

Why did you decide to do this play now? I thought it was a great opportunity to get back on the stage, to get back to my roots. And I get so few opportunities to get on the stage, so when I do, I really like tackling Shakespeare, which is the toughest and the most rewarding. You've been working a lot since we talked five years ago. You've done what?

Seven films since then. Ever? And since what year was that? 299? 299, yeah. Okay. In 2002, Denzel Washington finally won the Academy Award for Best Actor for playing Alonzo, a corrupt LAPD narcotics officer, in Training Day. To protect the sheep, you got to catch the wolf. And it takes a wolf to catch a wolf, you understand? I read that you get $20 million in film now.

I heard you make that kind of money too. I'm not there yet. You're not there yet? I'm not there yet. Washington was making big money for acting, but he was also venturing into the world of directing with Antoine Fisher. Did you enjoy directing? Absolutely. I'm going to do it again. And when it comes to one or the other, I mean, you'd like to do both or do you prefer acting over directing? Um...

I look at Clint Eastwood as the model. I like the way he's doing things and that's how I'd like to do it. Just segue right on into more and more filmmaking. It turned out this 2005 interview would be one of Ed Bradley's last. He'd been living with leukemia for years and many of his own colleagues were unaware of his illness. He died in 2006 after contracting an infection.

Ed Bradley was 65 years old. Ed Bradley interviewed Denzel Washington twice for stories that aired in 2000 and 2005. Did you reference those pieces, those stories in any way as you were preparing for your time with Washington? Yeah, we looked at them for sure to see what had been asked of him before and

Just to sort of get a sense of his demeanor on camera during an interview, I just wanted to see how he interacted with Ed. So yes, I did go over those stories. In 2016, Bill Whitaker interviewed Washington as he was in the midst of directing and acting in the film adaptation of August Wilson's play, Fences.

A man is supposed to take care of his family. You live in my house, fill your belly with my food, put your behind on my bed because you're my son. Because I like you, because it's my duty to take care of you. I owe a responsibility to you. How did this interview with Denzel Washington come about? The pitch was, you've got this...

incredible 20th century playwright. His play is being put on film by this incredible 20th and 21st century actor. Why don't we take a look at that? I understand you knew or met Washington earlier on offscreen, that you had some connection with him. The Denzel connection. Yes.

Our kids went to elementary and high school together. And I remember when we first moved to Los Angeles and we were going to a PTA meeting or a back-to-school event. And we're sitting in these little kindergarten desks and I look over at my wife and I go,

that's Denzel Washington over there. He was just sitting at one of the little kids' desks as one of the parents coming back to school night. You mean from the chicken dance? Remember the chicken dance? The chicken dance? Yeah, the whole school would do that. Including the parents? Parents, kids, everybody flapping their arms as wings, yeah. So that means you and that means the Washingtons? Uh-huh, uh-huh.

The Washington kids grew up to have show business careers of their own. John David Washington starred in Spike Lee's Black Klansman, and he's now appearing in a film adaptation of another August Wilson play, The Piano Lesson. And the whole movie is a family affair. You've got Denzel as a producer, and Katya as a producer, and Malcolm is the director, and

and Olivia, his daughter, and Pauletta, his wife, are acting in the movie. When we did the piece on fences, Katia, who was my son's friend in elementary and high school, was working on the set. August Wilson insisted that a black director direct fences.

didn't think that a white director would get the depth, the subtlety, the nuance of the black culture. You agree with that? Here's the way I've answered it. I'm sure Scorsese could have directed Schindler's List and Spielberg probably could have directed Goodfellas, but it's not so much race as it is culture. So I don't use the word race

I like the idea of the word culture. You know, there's things specific to the Italian-American culture that Scorsese understands that you and I may not understand or Spielberg may not understand. And there are things specific to Jewish-American or whatever culture that you and I may not understand that Spielberg would understand. So I think it... I said this before, so I know what it smells like when hair is being hot-combed

On a Sunday morning when my sister's getting ready to go to church or something, there's this particular smell that's specific to our culture, I think, or whoever else has it. You know, but I mean, but there's a particular smell. And the yelps when the comb gets too close to it. Yeah, the yelps and the hair grease that they use and all of that stuff, that smell that can take me right to a place. That's just a cultural thing.

For you as a correspondent, how do you approach the topic of race in a story like this? As an African-American, race is always, it's always a factor. It's always there, being an African-American. So it would be kind of not getting at the real story if I were not to take that into consideration, if I were not to ask questions about it.

But at the same time, we're often pigeonholed into, you know, like that's all we can talk about. You know, what's it like being black in America? Well, that's not all we can talk about. You know, we can talk about Denzel's excellence as an actor and maybe race as a factor is something that he had to deal with, see, push back on, get around, you

prove that he's not what the producers might have thought he was i think in denzel's case it clearly seems to have been something that he has dealt with by proving that it is not the defining factor about his career in his life interesting yeah i just thought about just as a personal note as a

a different perspective, but as a gay correspondent, when you interview someone who's gay, maybe that's a big part of the story or a big part of their background, but you don't want to make it just about that, but you want to acknowledge that. It's this balance. Yeah, yeah. And it's what you bring to the table. It's what I bring to the table. I mean, the United States is this big mosaic. We're a continent full of

of diversity. We're telling our stories. We're telling America's stories. And if you downplay one important aspect of life in America, then you're not telling the full story. And I don't think Denzel would be offended or troubled being asked about race. But if that's the only thing

an interviewer is interested in. What's it been like for you to, you know, be a black man in Hollywood? If that's all it is, then yeah, I'd bristle at that too. But to ignore it is to ignore a big part of who he is. By 2016, Washington was fronting big budget movies like The Equalizer, American Gangster, and remakes of The Manchurian Candidate and The Magnificent Seven. We were talking to some studio executives and

And to a man and a woman, they tell us that you are pretty much a game changer in that you are a person who defies all the categorizations. That people say that some actors only appeal to women, some appeal to men, some appeal to blacks, some appeal to whites. You cross the board. You appeal across the board. And I guess I'm asking is...

That's something that you set out to do? Is that something you cultivate? Is that something that's... I guess you can. You can cultivate it to a degree, but fundamentally, I'm just trying to be the best actor I can be, to do the best I can with the ability that I have. Seems like you've done everything but play a superhero, a Caped Crusader. Not interested? I don't know, man. Tights, you got...

I may be a little beyond the tights years. I don't know. I don't know. That's where the big money is. It's at who?

The guys that have been wearing the tights? No, you know, one has to recognize one's limitations. I don't see myself. You never say never. You never know. Never say never. You never know. There's a very funny exchange between the two of you where you ask him about work and he says, what's your name? What's your first name? Bill. Right. Put an S on it. Got to pay a couple of them. That's correct.

Acting pays the bills. Acting pays the bills. It seems that Washington tries to kind of bridge this divide between art and commerce or passion projects and something that pays. Well, he did mention that, you know, he does these big blockbusters because they pay the bills. But when you see something like Fences and The Piano Lesson,

I'm not sure they're going to be great big box office draws. I think they'll do well enough, but I think that's more from the heart. I wonder how Gladiator 2 fits into that art versus commerce question. Closer to the blockbuster aspect.

Well, you know, the thing I like about those movies, about the first movie, I haven't seen the second, is that it is a blockbuster and the acting is really good. You know, so it's possible to do both. Denzel Washington will turn 70 in late December, having spent nearly 50 years acting. He says Gladiator 2 is the biggest film he's ever worked on. Next year, he'll return to Broadway to star in Othello.

Where do you think Washington is today as an artist? Well, it's clear that he's moving more towards directing and producing. But I say that when he's about to have this huge movie coming out where he is like the star of one of the biggest movies of the year. So I guess he's in a space where he's able to do what he wants to do. And what a great space that that is.

You know, he wants to produce all of August Wilson's plays. He can do it. He wants to star in a huge blockbuster. He can do it. Right now, it seems that he's in a really good spot in his life. It's the sort of thing that any of us in our respective lives, careers would dream of. Yes. Might you call it the American dream? You know, he's...

reached the pinnacle of his profession and he's able to pick and choose what he wants to do. Doesn't get much better.

This episode of 60 Minutes, A Second Look was produced by Megan Marcus and Hazel May Bryan. Maura Walls is the story editor and Jamie Benson is our senior producer and engineer. Recording assistance from Alan Pang. Bill Owens is the executive producer of 60 Minutes. Tanya Simon is the executive editor and Matthew Polivoy is the senior producer. Ruth Streeter produced all three Denzel Washington interviews.

Special thanks to Michaela Buffano and Mariah Johnson. Gladiator 2 is distributed by Paramount Pictures, a division of CBS's parent company. And as always, a very big thanks to the incredible team at CBS News Archives who helped make this podcast possible.

I'm Seth Doan. We'll be back next week with another episode of 60 Minutes, A Second Look. In the meantime, please leave us a rating and a review. It helps more people discover our show. And thanks so much for listening.

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