#312 What is a Genome Health Analyst? Exploring NYU and Sarah Lawrence's New Master’s Program
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In this episode, we're diving into an exciting new career in the genomics field: genomic health analysts. This role is rapidly gaining importance as the demand for interpreting personal genomic data continues to grow and the healthcare system needs more professionals trained to make this data clinically actionable.

I'm thrilled to be joined by Claire Davis and Anna Kantor, co-directors of the new Masters of Science in Genome Health Analysis program, which is a collaboration between NYU Grossman School of Medicine and Sarah Lawrence College. So thank you both so much for coming on the show. Thanks for having us. Great to be here.

So Claire, tell me a little bit about what the driving force was behind starting this program because I learned about it somewhat recently and was just really fascinated by it. And I'm like, let's record in person. Let's do it because as people might know, I graduated from Sarah Lawrence and you were my program director at the time. So this is kind of a pinch me moment to be able to be like sitting across from you interviewing you about a brand new program.

Yeah, no, I completely agree. Really excited to be talking with you about it. Honestly, this has been years in the making. I think for a long time now, we've realized that genomic data is just increasing in magnitude and complexity, like exponentially, right? And so this program is designed to increase the capacity, meaning the number of people who have the expertise to make that real for people, to use genomic data in healthcare, to personalize their care over time.

And so that's kind of the guiding mission that we were all targeting when we were talking about this program. And to increase capacity, you've got to train more people. And so that's really what we're aiming to do. Yeah. No, it's a noble feat. I think just in general that just training so many people in the genomics workforce and having this relatively new career path

So what type of career paths within this are, I guess, available for students after they graduate? Because I don't even know, like, what does that look like? You graduate, what kind of role does someone have? Anna, can you fill me in a little bit on like,

how that could look for someone? Absolutely. So we see our GHA students and graduates filling in places in health care systems, hospitals, pharmaceuticals, as well as genetic testing companies. An example I like to give to students that are interested in this program and kind of want to see that what that looks like is imagine that a provider sends a genetic testing sample like a blood sample to a lab. Usually what that lab does is that they

analyze the sample and they give the provider back a genetic test report with an interpretation of the variants that may or may not be clinically relevant. So imagine taking that analysis in-house. So we're getting the genomic data back and these GHA graduates will be embedded within healthcare systems. So they will have also EHR data.

clinically relevant information from specific patients so they can take all the or analyze, annotate the relevant variants for that specific person sitting at the doctor's office, combine it with EHR information and write a very personalized test report back.

And all in-house, like you were saying, that you can have these people on the team that that's the part that they're working on so that it doesn't have to necessarily be sent out for an external third party to figure out. And then you're sending it back. Oh, we need more clinical information, the back and forth. I mean, I've been there in terms of being a prenatal genetic counselor. You're sending something in, let's say I'm ordering an amnio. And they're like, well, what are the findings on ultrasound? What are we looking for? Especially if you're ordering like an exome or something like that. So there's a lot of back and forth. And I think that as...

And in a lot of cases, we want to have those results much quicker, as fast as we can in most cases. We're not like, oh, take your time. It's not a stat. Most genetic testing is considered-- the clinician and the patient are like, we want this as soon as possible. And also, you can imagine that the rates of-- or just the frequency of VUSs will go down. Yeah. Because we're providing the best possible

or the GHA will have that clinical information right in front of them. A lot of people don't send clinical information or family history information to the lab. So the labs are doing the best that they can with the information they have in front of them. But when we have all that data in front of us,

were able to make much more personalized recommendations for patients as well as their families. Yeah, I think that's so important and exciting to see that this is a newer career path, at least that I hadn't heard of, you know, I'd say before the last year of when you guys started this program. I'm like, what is this? This is so exciting.

just to have another type of pathway for people that are interested in genetics and maybe genetic counseling isn't quite the right fit for them. And they're like, "Oh, this is what I've been looking for." They're more interested in that data side, the bioinformatics, and that's more their calling. So what I wanted to know is, obviously I'm very familiar with Sarah Lawrence,

Why did this collaboration happen? What does each school provide? Why is it such a good meld of the two? Because this could have been different universities. Like, why was this a match?

This is a really great question. This is a selfish question because I just want to know, how did this come to be? Yeah. So I think it's kind of maybe patently obvious when you look at these two different institutions that it's an unlikely friendship, right? So you have a small liberal arts college and this major academic medical center separated by maybe only 20

It really feels like worlds apart, right? In New York, that's worlds apart. Exactly. People that don't own New York. You got to get on a train. Oh, man. You got to change trains. Yeah. So I think it's important to recognize like,

NYU is this computational powerhouse. I mean, they are pushing forward. They are asking the right questions. They are singularly focused on how can we get genomic data into healthcare to improve it and to personalize it. And then you have Sarah Lawrence, which yes, you know, but for those of you who aren't familiar, right? It's this kind of

free thinking, very creative, very sort of constructively critical place that has a long standing history of focusing on humanistic person centered models of care. So when you're talking about personalized health care,

Sarah Lawrence and NYU actually bring together these different but compatible strengths in a way. And that's kind of what we've discovered over the partnership is that we sort of riff on each other and play back and forth. And there's some really beautiful complementarity there that I think the program has benefited in. Absolutely. Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And I think just with Sarah Lawrence, if

If people have heard many episodes, they've heard me say this, but that this is where genetic counseling was invented. This is where it was founded. So I think, you know, kind of that phrase like standing on the shoulders of giants, that's what you guys are able to do with this program of taking advantage of how big and how much of a powerhouse NYU is.

with all the history and the experience that Sarah Lawrence has, it makes a lot of sense to me. So I was thinking that's kind of what you would say, but it's good to hear that what I was thinking is true. Yeah, absolutely. And from what I understand, this program is broken up into four semesters. You've got classes, you've got some kind of practicum rotations.

How does that work? What is the objectives of making sure like what kind of classes people are taking and what do those rotations even look like? Because again, this is a newer area. It's certainly a new career path, but it's not a brand new area because as we were talking about, you know, like figuring out and combing through genetic data, we've been doing that for a long time, but to have a career that's dedicated to that subset of genetics is really important.

But figuring out, OK, how are we training people to then go into the career path? So classes, rotations, what's that looking like? So the program, the curriculum has really been designed to build on a foundational knowledge. And the curriculum is designed to start with that knowledge and then get much more practical skills based. And so the foundational knowledge that we provide with our students are centered around classes in human genetics, computational genomics.

And then in the second year, they have a skills lab where they are working with genomic data sets to annotate, interpret through different organ systems. And then the practicum is really where we put them and embed them in different working environments that are using genomic data and see where their unique skill set will really lend a hand.

and allow them to shape these different work environments. That's so helpful to be able to do that in like a lab kind of setting where you can focus on these skills and start shaping them a little bit and then going into the field and seeing how this actually works. Because otherwise, like I think I would be intimidated if you're just like, oh, let's throw you in the field without ever trying it out and looking at data sets and everything because

This is big data. I mean, combing through this, it's not like you're just looking at one thing and you're reading it. You're using programs and sorting through and having to prioritize which variants am I looking at over others. So, I mean, that's the extent of what I know about it, at least. But it's a really interesting and growing area in that sense. And so in terms of the classes, where do they actually take the classes? Is it through both universities? Is it through one?

So they're taking classes through both universities. Interesting. The degree is culminated in a degree from NYU. OK, so that's what they get on their actual-- when they get the degree that they put up on the wall here. OK. Exactly. So it's an NYU degree. They are taking classes with NYU's bioinformatics students.

They're also taking classes with Sarah Lawrence genetic counseling students. And then we have some classes that are unique for the GHA students. And so they're actually really getting a nice balance between the computation classes that currently exist at NYU, the humanistic genetic classes,

counseling classes that are offered at Sarah Lawrence as well very tailored programming that's just geared towards them right because it's helpful to understand all the a lot of the clinical background because you need to be able to read through and know what's important as you're analyzing the variants and going through the data so it makes sense you want to have that background so that's really interesting and if I could just add like I think it also simulates the kind of interdisciplinarity that they're gonna have out in the workforce yeah and so it's it's both that

oh, we can learn these similar skills together. But while we're learning them, we're also practicing how they overlap and sort of come together out in the world. So they get a bigger community that way. It's not just them. I was going to say the networking alone. That's one of the reasons I went to Sarah Lawrence, honestly, is because the alumni network is like over 1,000 GCs. And so when I look at different programs and ways I can be involved, I'm like, oh, this is going to allow for me to meet so many people that's going to be helpful in my career. So being able to meet all those different people and being

you know, if they're like, oh, I have this pediatric case. Oh, wait, at Sarah Lawrence, I remember one of my classmates ended up going into PEDS. That's so helpful. Let me send them a text and see if they have info for me. So I think that's just so helpful too, to just have all those pools of people. Absolutely. Yeah. That's, that's really exciting. And as you were saying, the curriculum covers a lot of these omic technologies. So it really goes deeper into that side. Is there anything else you wanted to comment on in terms of

What, obviously, like genomics is what we're focused on, but is there other kind of things that you kind of touch on? Like I'm thinking like microbiome. Is that something that people are looking at or am I kind of going more too far into the future? Well, we're really trying to train our students to be at the forefront of genetics and genomics. We're going to be training them in all the up and coming technologies that are available because really they have to be the

a bridge between clinicians who really have limited or lack of training in this field. And so we're really giving them the tools to identify and be familiar with what's coming, how to use this information to really help their patients ultimately. Yeah. I think we acknowledge that genomics is what's now, but we need to also prepare them for what's next.

And it's not necessarily clear what that's going to be. So you've got to survey the landscape. You've got to see what's coming out of these really incredible research centers and see how it might be applying so that they're anticipating that application as opposed to being reactive to it when they're out in their jobs. And building skills so that once there are

new emerging technologies, they can take those skills and say, "Oh, I can apply it to this one." I think nowadays with how much we have with AI, I'm sure is going to be a big component with all of this and already is starting to be in terms of prioritizing variance for me. What should I start with? Right? Like we see companies starting to use AI

And being able to say, "Okay, I now have the skills to do this." That's so much more important than memorizing something. So I think that's more important than ever. I think even when we were in school, you had to memorize certain things, right? And even students today, but less so than when we were all

in school. And that's all different years for us, but it all applies. Yeah. The students actually have a class called, it's like AI in healthcare, something like that. And I'm like, I need to take this too. I'm just going to sit in on this one and see how this plays out because it's a really important tool that we have to partner with. Yeah. And just seeing how it does integrate into some of these systems and especially with the EHRs, EMRs, whatever you want to call it, the electronic health medical record systems, and

how does that work in the sense of do they have their own internal AI that they can use? Because I think HIPAA ends up being a big concern. You can't just take patient data, throw it into ChatGPT or Gemini or one of these. So even just having students learn kind of

the ins and outs and the rules when it comes to a lot of that, I think is important. Absolutely. For people that are interested in genetics and they're like, I want to do something in this career path. The first thing I remember thinking for myself back 10, 15 years ago was, okay, that must mean I'm working in a lab and I'm working with mice. And I like went to Jackson laboratories, got a tour there. That was very cool. Uh, up in Bar Harbor, Maine and, and okay, that's an interesting option. And then I learned about genetic counseling. I'm like, Oh,

That's talking about genetics. Shocker, I love doing that. So that's what I ended up pursuing. But to me at that time, those are my two options. Now there's a lot more options. So if someone is thinking to themselves right now as they're watching and listening, what are signs that this is the path for them in genetics as opposed to those, the other paths out there? Yeah. Yeah.

So first of all, right, if genetics lights you up, you're in the right spot. Good job. Great start. Something in here. You found the right club. You found the right podcast. Exactly. That's totally it. And then the next question is, okay, but like there are also like these sort of affinity groups within the bigger group or community. And so how am I going to target that?

We did a lot of this scoping-wise when we were first developing the curriculum. You don't want to step on toes or scope of practice of other people who are doing this work. You want to find a way to share the load in a way that's adding as opposed to competing. And so these might feel like generalizations, but I'd love your thoughts on how true this might be. Genetic counselors love patients. We love talking to people about genetics. We do.

We love asking questions and taking family histories, right? And so somebody who really wants to do patient care, that's a great path for them. And then you have bioinformaticians. They love computers. They love big data sets. They love crunching this immense amount. They love creating programs in a long run. Yeah. I imagine like the matrix because it's not my field, but it seems amazing. Exactly.

Exactly. I dabble in it stuff. So yeah. Exactly. And then you have a great example there. Some people really like bench research. Like you're kind of generating empiric data about how genetics works or mechanisms, etiologies of different illnesses. And so that's another focus. And there are so many others. And then you kind of have

a unique mix of skills. And that's what we tried to do with the GHA. We tried to say, yeah, you need some computation and you need some clinical interpretation and you need some consultation skills. And so you make this mix, hopefully to be able to like network and connect with these other people to kind of be the glue that holds this workforce together in a way.

So if boundary crossing or kind of having this unique and different sort of skill set and trying it out in the world is interesting, I think that's where the GHA might be a really good fit. And I can even think of

people that graduated with a genetic counseling degree that I think maybe retroactively thinking this would have been a better program for them because they went into working at a lot of these genetic testing labs that are doing variant curation and doing aspects there where I'm like, oh, if they could restart, they probably would have chose this program over others because a lot of the genetic counseling programs do have that focus on patient facing roles. And that's not where we all end up.

And it's helpful that there are your program and others out there so that people can focus on what they really want to do because what you're spending your time and the field work and all that, you want it to be the role that you envision and are yearning towards. So I think that's really helpful. And it'll be interesting to see in the longterm how it affects the field of people that get hired in these roles at different labs and within hospitals, like you were talking about, if they're more,

more and more of them are going to come from your program as opposed to having genetic counseling degrees because you're setting them up to be really successful in those roles right off the bat. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think you can think of the GHA as really filling a gap. It is. You've got clinicians who are really good with patient care. You've got bioinformaticians who are really good with data, but

what genetic counselors are learning on the job. On the job. We learned a little bit in school in class of 2020. So we learned a little bit, but not as much. In my year, class of '14, we didn't learn any of this. This was really learning on the job variant interpretation. And so what these GHAs are doing are bridging the gap between data and patient care.

And labs are going to be so interested in your graduates because they're like, what do you mean we don't have to train them on the job? They're coming already trained. It's more like this is the program we use. And then the graduates are going to be like, oh, yeah, all right. So I just do it this way instead. Boom, done. And it really allows everybody to work at their peak level of expertise, which is really like the-- More efficient. Absolutely. Icing on the cake. Yeah. I think this is really going to change

how our field operates. And I envision that this program will end up kind of being the one to copy in terms of other programs throughout the country, because you guys can't train everybody as big as you will become. You can't train everybody in the US and the world. So other programs saying, okay, we really need to step it up and offer this kind of track in terms of that career path. So, I mean, thank you ahead of time for training all these people and

and helping all the patients, but the labs too. Like how much money are they going to save on training? My goodness, you guys are doing a forum. So yeah, that's wonderful. So at this point, a lot of listeners are very interested. They're like, okay, I want to go into genetics. And they're like, I'm not sure which area. And now they're listening to this, like, well, I should throw my hat in the ring. I should see if I can get into this program. So for people interested in applying, what do you want them to emphasize in their application? What...

And even, I guess, before the application of what kind of experience should they have going into it? Because I think there's a lot of resources out there for other fields and genetics know, oh, I should get this kind of experience and that kind of experience. For this, it's a newer area. So it's hard to be like, oh, I've shadowed someone or I've done an internship. So what other aspects are you going to be looking for for people to maybe bolster right now? Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so I can think of three things. Okay, so let's list them out. Three things. We're going to list these out because that's going to be fun. Okay, so the first thing is a little bit boring, but it's just have they had some academic preparation in genetics, statistics, and computer programming? Literally, I'm not talking about having a degree in these things, just have been taking a class on it.

The second thing I would say is describing an interest in genetics and healthcare in the personal statement. And this is how do you see these things coming together? Which particular part of their intersection are you interested in? How does it kind of light you up and get you excited? Because we're pretty excited about it. Yeah, can you tell? I'm excited about it. We'll be looking for your application. And then the third thing is a little bit more amorphous. It's kind of more of like a mindset. It's somebody who's...

really sort of has an affinity for complexity and ambiguity and also for collaboration. This is, as you said, right, it is new. And so we're continuing to improve upon it, critique it, ask questions, move it forward. And we need the students to be open about their experience so that we can work together to make it better.

And so it's this idea of somebody who's going to jump in, give it a try, and keep going with us. And it's exciting to be one of the first students because you really get to have a long lasting legacy. Wow, say that three times fast. That should be the tagline, be part of the long lasting legacy.

because you get to give the program feedback and you get to really be a part of forming it. And I think that's so exciting too, to be able to be the first and then when you have alumni, like, oh, you were one of the first classes. So I think that's just such a thrilling aspect to apply for this cycle. So that's just really, really great to be able to think about it that way.

And from what I understand, the deadline for the priority application is January 31st, and that's for the next academic year. So 2025 into 2026.

And then you have rolling admissions after that. So it's like great to apply by then because you get that priority. So what else, I guess, is there going to be a statement of purpose? Like what are the other aspects of the application? Anna, can you speak to that? Absolutely. So there's two recommendation letters that we request as well as a personal statement. And this is where the students really get to shine. They get to really speak to their experience and their interest.

What gaps have they observed or what where do they think that they can fit into this new field? And this is where we really are looking for people who have that ambition, that problem solving, where they see themselves really being trailblazers in a new field.

You need to be to be in this field. Yeah. 100%. And so, like you said, we have a really great connection with our students because we're looking for that continuous feedback. So we are looking for those students that are willing to give us their honest opinion, explore new things. And so these are the types of students that we're looking for right now. Yeah. No, that's fabulous. I think it's really...

exciting just to see how this is taking off. What other aspects are you just really excited about the program and maybe even just the future of as it builds up more? That's such a great question. I have to think about it because there's so much happening in my brain at once. Yeah.

100%. I would say the thing that excites me most is that we're really trying to change healthcare. And I know that sounds idealistic, but you've got to like follow a dream, right? And so our scope is not small. It's not, yeah, just come and do things the way they've always been done. It's literally

No, make personalized health care more accessible for everyone because we know that's what genomic data can do. We just need more people who can help make that happen. And so that's literally it. Let's make the world different in that way and help people be healthier and live longer and have families. It's just kind of the big picture.

And now is a good time, I think, for this to be launching because we've gotten to this point, as we've seen over the last 20, 30 years, at least I have from reading historical books and things like that. Not Jennifer Aniston over here. But looking at that, because the cost of sequencing is so low now compared to what it was like, you know, whatever, a billion, million dollars with the Human Genome Project, and it's just been steadily declining.

Now we can have a lot more people have this be accessible. And with that, we need a lot more people to be able to analyze all of this data. And I think I'd be remiss if we didn't bring up the topic that there is this disparity in genomic health data where our field is very European based. So that's the genomes that we started with and we're

we need to be able to have a lot more of that. Is that something that you're thinking about heading into this program? And obviously you're not the ones that are collecting data, but you're the ones analyzing data. So it's like you're on the second step of that. But from your perspectives, obviously we've been chipping away at this. I wish it would move faster than it is, but I'm impatient with a lot of things of progress. Any thoughts on that? Just like how we're continuing to

really be able to make it more equitable in that way? I think that's the idea. So when you're working with individualized data as opposed to having eligibility criteria for a study that sort of targets a particular population, you're going straight to the person. And in theory, you're lowering the barriers for people to get that kind of interpretation and that kind of support for applying it to their care.

And so at scale, right, it's an all comers approach. There's no gate there that sort of determines who comes through and hopefully that accumulates into reducing disparities.

Yeah. And when you think about where these graduates will end up, you know, if they're embedded into healthcare systems, they're not dealing with the patients directly. They're just dealing with the data. And so they can proactively even identify patients that may benefit from these personalized recommendations that they're able to

to generate and collect because they're going to be able to understand the clinical side of things, but as well the genomic data side of things. And so again, when you remove the patient and the eligibility criteria and you have people embedded in these health networks, I think you're just going to see that it's going to be

It'll just naturally happen if they're already working in these systems. And I think projects like the Pan Genome Project, All of Us, that is helping us just in our field, not even in just the US, but in other countries as well. That's a great analogy, actually. And still to think about though, those are incredible research studies, All of Us, for instance. And that's a nice way to kind of get in. It's still another step.

We really want to see the genome health analysts in primary care settings, for instance. You're meeting them right where people are, where they're coming to healthcare, where they're seeking out support related to just their overall health. And so I think that's another piece of it. We have a really strong clinical focus. It's very important that we keep the patient or the client right

right close to the learning that they're doing because we want them working much closer to people and the population. And seeing the impact they have, right? Because if you have a file that you open, you're working on, but remembering there is a person behind that. And when you're not direct patient facing roles in health care, sometimes that feels a little like, you know, it's someone, but it's more abstract. But being able to integrate that into your program and having that mindset there is like you're working on this and you're going to help this person

and their family and it's that ripple effect yeah that's absolutely yeah well anything you want to leave our viewers and listeners with because yeah if uh i wasn't already a genetic counselor i'd be considering this if you had like a part-time option i could do over 10 years you know something like that maybe i could swing um but anything else you wanted to mention

I think, you know, a lot of the interest that we're getting is just kind of natural interest. People are coming across our website, our contact information, and we really welcome all, all,

in the program. We're very receptive to emails. I'm happy to answer emails, phone calls, Zooms, because we're trying to get word out there that this is a new project and people have questions and we're happy to answer them. Yeah. And so, yeah, check us out on our website and...

We'll link to all of that in the show notes. So just pop over to that or go to dnatoday.com. It's right there for you. Yeah. And you can send us an email. We're happy to answer your questions. Yeah. And make sure you get your applications. I recommend by January 31st. So your priority. But if the holidays and life gets in the way, you can still rolling a mission after that. So yeah. Well, thank you both so much for

Coming on, being in person. This is very exciting. And I just can't wait to get an update from you of just how things are going and where students are working and, you know, talking more about just like how the program is going. So thank you both so much. Thank you. So fun. Thank you.

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Looking to jumpstart your career as a genetic assistant? These essential roles involve patient communication, data management, genetic testing coordination, and admin tasks, making proper training a must. The Genetic Assistant Online Training Program at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine is a top choice. DNA Today listeners rave about how this course boosted their genetic counseling skills and prepared them for grad school.

The spring cohort starts soon on January 27th, so apply now before it's too late. The program includes two 10-week instructor-led courses. Armed with a basic science background, you'll earn a certificate from the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine upon completion. You'll also gain practical skills and insights from leading instructors that will give you a competitive edge in genetic counseling and related fields.

Learn more at dnapodcast.com slash sponsors or simply search Genetic Assistant Online Training Program, Johns Hopkins.

When it comes to your health, knowledge is power. I've always believed that the more we understand about our bodies, the better decisions we can make, whether it's about the food we eat, the exercise we choose, or how we plan for the future. But traditional health care often feels reactive and not proactive. That's why I'm so excited about 23andMe Plus Total Health, a longevity platform that puts you in the driver's seat of your health journey.

With 23andMe plus Total Health, you get advanced genetic screening, giving you insights into your potential future risks, and comprehensive blood testing throughout the year to track how your health is changing. It's a level of personalized care that goes far beyond the one-size-fits-all healthcare system that unfortunately we're used to. Advocate for your health today. Go to 23andMe.com slash DNA Today to receive 10% off your Total Health membership.

Again, that's 23andMe.com slash DNA Today. You can also find this link at DNAToday.com. Take charge of your future health with 23andMe Plus Total Health because your health deserves a personalized approach.