Sen. John Fetterman on Gaza Latest, "Toxic" Democrats, and Why They Can't Win White Men
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Hi, I'm Tara Palmieri. I'm Puck's senior political correspondent, and this is Somebody's Gotta Win.

On this show, as promised, I have Senator John Fetterman of Pennsylvania, still in his first term, but in a coniclass for his willingness to buck his own party and be open to MAGA, even if that means not clapping back at everything Trump says and does. In fact, he says that he thinks that Trump's proposal that the U.S. occupy Gaza isn't such a terrible idea, even though it lit the world on fire on Tuesday night.

He thinks that the Democratic Party needs to hold its fire when dealing with Trump, even when he's dismantling agencies and departments. He said that's who the American people voted for, and until the Democrats win back majorities in the House and Senate in 2026, there's really not much they can do, and that it doesn't really help them to make a lot of noise. In the meantime, he's not even sure how they're gonna win back white men like himself.

He did make some news after being the lone Democrat to cross party lines and vote to confirm Pam Bondi for attorney general. He said that he will not be voting to confirm three of Donald Trump's cabinet nominees. To find out who and how John Fetterman walks the line with Donald Trump, listen here.

Senator Fetterman, thanks so much for joining the show. A lot of this came together because your staff noticed that I was being attacked on Blue Sky, which is basically the left's answer to X. It's basically become its own cesspool in its own way, like X for merely reporting. Of course. In fact, in my experience, it might even more severe kinds of cesspool.

I mean, I know it can be really intense. And this was just for merely reporting that some people in your party see you as a potential counterpunch to Trump or an antidote. And, you know, some people think you offer a different kind of masculinity that appeals to Gen Z in a way that more sanctimonious Democrats can't. And, you know, you went on Joe Rogan and you're sort of unpredictable in the same way that Trump is.

You sound and look like a regular person. You don't talk in the press release speak. You kind of remind me of people that I grew up with. So a lot of people thought, you know, maybe you could bring that fight against Trump for Congress and you could do it in a way that would attract the middle, the people that the Democrats lost in the last election, the center left. But obviously a lot of the hate from the left comes from the fact that

Well, not only do you vote for Pam Bondi for attorney general, you're the lone Democrat to do that. I did. Can I just describe why? Yeah, sure. Well, it's like she would not be my choice. She would not be my attorney general. But it's a different situation. Like, I'm not the president. And that's the way that's the way democracy works.

And another thing's true is that she is qualified. She was the attorney general of the third largest state in the nation. And she was a DA for 17, 18 years. So in terms of qualifications, he absolutely was a serious person. And in her politics and all those issues that I wouldn't agree with those things. So if everything is a no or everything is a freak out, um,

or you refuse or you demand purity in every interaction, then you're never going to get anything done. And then you reflect the truth on the way our nation is and definitely the way my state is.

ignore what happened a couple months ago in the election. So there's some people that are going to vote for no, and there's some people I have voted for yes, just like Vought. I literally just voted no on the cloture maybe 10, 15 minutes ago on the floor. Okay. What about RFK, Tulsi Gabbard, Kash Patel? Do you think you'll vote to confirm them?

No, I mean, it's like they've all been incredibly difficult conversations for sure. And I've engaged with all three of them and I've just treated them with respect and I've had questions with them and I'm just listening to all of those kinds of the hearings and those things. But I don't think there's anything left to gain to just dump on people or to try to shame them or...

or to do that thing. If, if shaming, if shaming, um, and, and the kind of the scolding kinds of thing, if that was effective, I think that we would be able to pick those, uh, choices instead of having somebody else make our picks. So that's an ongoing dialogue. So you haven't made up your mind yet on those three? Oh, well, I mean, I, I, I think, I think, I think I have. Yes. Is it a yes or a no? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, uh,

my inclination would be we'd be no's. Okay. I do want to get back to another reason why the left has been really critical and suspicious of you is because of your unwavering support for Israel. And speaking of Israel, what do you think of Donald Trump's proposal that the U.S. occupy Gaza? Yeah, I mean, you know, I describe it as provocative and it is provocative, but I

but I don't think that that's really in an actual serious kind of a way. And I think, I mean, I can't speak exact, you know, what he meant, but, but what I think it was more to kind of shake things up and to get like, to start like a very more honest conversation of Gaza. And now,

Now, 90% of the housing has been destroyed or severely damaged. And where are you going to live? What are folks going to do? There's no utilities. There's no water. There's no kinds of structures to protect them from the weather. So where are they going to go? Where are they going to live? How are they going to do that in a hygienic kind of a way?

And how are you going to rebuild it, especially when Hamas is still allowed to function too?

where's the money going to come from and who's going to be doing all the building and do all that work? I mean, that's a gigantic, that's a gigantic kinds of undertaking. And now no one's been honest about it. So from right now, it's like that's starting to have that conversation. And that's what I've always been maintaining. All of the experts on the Middle East throughout all this were wrong. And for me, my top priority in that region is destroying Iraq.

nuclear facilities. And we have a unique opportunity to do that knowing that now that Hamas is severely damaged and so has Bula severely diminished. And Iran, it's actually been shown that Iran doesn't have the capabilities to really project those kinds of damage and they're not as fearsome as people thought that they were. Yeah. I think you're never going to have...

until you finally finish out their nuclear facilities. So that's part of an honest conversation after what's happened. Okay. Donald Trump, though, did specifically talk about sending U.S. troops. We just pulled out of Afghanistan and Iraq. What do you think about sending troops to Gaza?

I know. I mean, it's like that's just not part of a conversation that we're not really at there for that. I mean, he said it and he's a president. So, yeah, he had he had said that. And I understand. It's like, no, I'm not really think that we're we're in an American boots on the ground in Gaza. That's that's where we should go. But I do think we should go where we have to hold Hamas and ISIS.

and Iran and the region, all the whole region accountable. And if they keep putting up the kinds of government that allow Israel and the Palestinian people to live in peace and prosperity. So like when are we gonna finally hold people accountable? And that's what Israel did in that war by destroying Hezbollah

and destroying Hamas and reminding people that's the way it was designed because Hamas hides in those kinds of things like schools and refugee camps and those things. And they forced Israel to fight through civilians.

Right. But then they're talking about moving the civilians off of Gaza, the Palestinians, in this plan. Yeah, exactly. It's like, you know, they were forced to fight a war through the civilians. And I have never described Palestinians as a necessary sacrifice. The Palestinians

The Palestinian leaders described that, and they designed that to maximize the most amounts of death, and hoping that they could bring everybody in the region into the war when Israel actually demonstrated that Iran really isn't the kind of powerful force in the region. And all those proxies really aren't much of much, and Hezbollah was quickly destroyed,

And Iran, you know, now doesn't have really much money left on the table and that. And now after what happened in Syria, you know, that was thought to be, you know, just unthinkable. But what about just like moving the people, though? Like, how do you feel about just moving the Palestinian people off the land?

like a basic level. - Yeah, well, it's like, so what's gonna happen to them? How can you live in just a destroyed and a war zone? How do you live somewhere where there's no water? Where do you live in something if they can't even protect them from the weather? Where are you gonna live if you don't have electricity?

You know, where are you? What about sanitation and those kinds of things and other basic services? Think about what that looks because no one's being honest about it. You know, if you're returning to an absolute pile of rubble, then it's like that's not an honest one. And Gaza is going to need to be rebuilt. And how do you rebuild that if Hamas is in power? Because when they've

built Gaza, they stole those resources and built those tunnels and bought those kind of weapons that, you know, they turned on Israel and happened on 10-7. So no one's being honest and no one isn't really reacting to the reality on the ground. Are you concerned, though, that this could disrupt the ceasefire right now between Israel and Hamas? I don't because they

because they were very eager for a cease, a ceasefire, you know, Hamas definitely wants to cease fire. And now they try to pretend I never, it's like I pushed back on my social account where I'm like a bunch of tunnel rats, you know, in their busted out Toyota truck. That's not a sort of, that's not a show of force. I mean, that's just a bunch of, that's just a couple of them left after everything. Um, and then also, uh,

Hezbollah was begging for a ceasefire because they destroyed their leadership.

all of those rockets that they claimed. They're just a bunch of junk. And Israel was quickly able to neutralize those. And Iran was begging for a ceasefire as well, too, effectively begging, oh, please don't touch our nuclear facilities. Please don't touch our oil industry. And Israel could have taken them both out immediately after all of it. So that's a much different dynamic. So, you know, Israel and let's also never forget, you still have innocent

citizens still that have been held against their will in tunnels now for well over a year. And that's the only reason why, you know, there has been a ceasefire to bring those people back home.

So my sources told me that the sort of person who conceived this deal was Jared Kushner. And he said actually publicly last year that he thought Gaza had beautiful waterfront property. Trump himself said it could be a great real estate project, Gaza. What if this ends up benefiting Trump's family? This ends up becoming some sort of real estate project that

that they gain from. I don't personally believe that they're going to turn that into, you know, the Gaza into a Trump Plaza kind of a situation. I don't believe that. I don't think that's feasible. It might not be branded Trump, but, you know, it's something that they benefit from. Well, I mean, you know, I...

I think it was actually silly in changing it to the Gulf of America. Or, you know, I think Denali is a cool... I think that's a cool name. But changing it, those things, it doesn't really matter. But this is the point. When the pitcher is throwing thousands of balls, you have to decide which ones are the strikes to swing on and to push back and to fight against that. And now, if many of my colleagues have already...

we're a little over two weeks in and now they're in full on freak out. And now they've got the signs and they're going out, you know, like, you know, hey, let's go, let's, let's grab a bullhorn and go into a Starbucks and start yelling. So this is not a cause for freak out, you think? Yeah. Well, I mean, it's like, you can be concerned, but, but also remember that

all of the things and the shaming and the scolding and the freak outs. And after the impeachment and after the trials and after all that, you know, it's like when you have used the extreme language in your portfolio of fascist and now they're throwing around things, know that this is a coup and those things. I've studied what coups really were and I've studied what some of these things were. And right now this is sound and fury.

And thus far, at least, it really hasn't created any lasting damage or anything serious about it.

So you think it might even just be some sort of bargaining chip that Trump uses? I know that he's been really frustrated from hearing no from the Arab leaders. Well, actually, they campaigned on this. And now they've already dropped, you know, they actually threw the playbook right on the table saying, yeah, it's going to be shock and awe. And it's going to be assuming that they can't resist, you know, reacting to those kinds of things. Well, I am not. I am not. I am not.

that guy. I know they want to turn the Democrats, that Lucy Ball at the candy firm where they keep coming out. Democrats are going to keep trying to eat everything and they keep up with it. It's just...

you know, again, you have to choose which thing you're going to go back at and then your other things that you're going to ignore or just saying that a lot of it's just going to be silly or it's just a tactic or it's just a trolling or that it's really not that serious. Why is the Democratic Party viewed as toxic by so many, like even people inside the party acknowledge that? I think their primary currency was shaming and scolding and and

And talking down to people and telling them, hey, I know better than you or you're dopes or you're a bro or you're ignorant or, you know, don't you, you know, how can you be this dumb? I can't imagine it like that.

And then, by the way, they're they're fascists. How can you vote for that? And, you know, when you're in a state like Pennsylvania, like I know and I love people that voted for Trump and they're not fascists. You know, they they don't support insurrection and those things. And and if you go to an extreme and you become a boutique kind of a fascist,

a proposition, then you're going to lose the argument. And then we have done that. When I show up at like a working site, I can all but guarantee you, you know, if they're politically engaged, you know, who they vote for, why they would vote there, and

And they just think they want to identify with people that seem to be looking out for me or for me, I described the 24 election was not about obscure kinds of policies. It's a gut check kind of vote. And they are going to ask themselves who is going to protect or project my personal view of

the American way of life and who's the better match for what I believe is the American way of life. And I'm going to vote for that person. And that's why I think Trump won, because for average voters in my state, you know, that's why Trump, you know, ran the table on all of the states that determine who's going to be the president. And the people that are the most now protesting right now and yelling, you know, I'm going

are in the safe districts and the safe kinds of states and remembering. And then like, for example, the new leadership of the DNC, the vice chair, abolish ICE. And now the other thing saying, defund the police and those things. I'm concerned that we really haven't paid attention on what happened. And have we looked up at the scoreboard and been like, oh, by the way, we've lost.

What do you think of the new chair, by the way? I don't know much about him. Honestly, I've never heard that name until that was part of this conversation. And I mean, I'm a practitioner and I really wasn't aware of it. How do Democrats win back white men like yourself? I don't know. And truthfully, I'm not sure. I'm not sure if that's possible, to be honest. I think that's been seriously eroding for for a while.

And in some cases, in the conversations I've had, a lot of people, they don't even want to say it publicly, but they just feel like, you know, the other side seems like it's like men, well, men's the problem. Men are to blame. Or their masculinity is toxic. Or unless you're able to conform to our very strict kinds of definition of what we think is appropriate, well, then, hey, I'm going to find an alternative. And they've done that. Yeah.

That's that's that's absolutely true. And once we've kind of turned their back on that demographic, it's going to be difficult to to rebuild and replace that with with with those voters, because I think that migration has been ongoing phenomenon for several years. And that was been in front and center, you know, in part of the election in 24. Yeah.

OK, so you were fiercely defensive of Joe Biden back in July when a lot of your colleagues were trying to push him out of the race. You called them spineless. Chuck Schumer even kind of gave you a little clap back for doing that. Do you think Scranton Joe could have won P.A. and maybe the other battleground states?

No, I didn't. I didn't call them spineless. I just what I what I did say, what I did say is, is that I'm tired of you worrying about Joe Biden's there. I'm tired of you worrying about his legacy. Well, remember, you all have legacies, too. You have legacies, too.

And if you fuck over a good president and blast him apart, then, you know, then you better own the outcome on that. And now it's undeniable Joe Biden had a rough debate. I've never claimed that Joe Biden was on the top of his game, undeniably. But I did say that, too. I think I I think my debate was actually worse than his. Well, you were going through some serious health issues there.

at the same time. Yeah, well, exactly. And I wouldn't be standing in this room right now, but

But you have to make your choice. You have to make your choice. Stand with the president who is the only person ever beat Trump or blast everything apart. And who knows with who and how that's going to go. But then you better own you better own that outcome. Do you think he could have won Pennsylvania, though? You know, Pennsylvania. I mean, I don't know. But but what I do know is that it's going to be incredibly close. I have said that back in 2015, 2016, that Trump has connected on the ground.

And I have tried to describe to people that of all the three cycles Trump's been in, Trump is coming in in the hottest. You know, he's coming in hot and he's at its strength was, you know, at the third one in Otau, the strongest he's ever been. And then after the assassination.

after the assassination, that was profound. And then I witnessed how that impacted on the ground. And a couple of days later, people had that iconic image on shirts, on flags, front and center, and that.

And and I tried people. It's like if Obama was shot and he was almost killed and he was like, fight, fight, fight. And he's got blood coming off him. Imagine how that would energize Democrats through all that. And then and Musk got involved, too. So Musk was.

absolutely compelling for voters in Pennsylvania too. And people were excited to show up and be like, oh, wow, this is the world's richest man. This is a guy that builds rockets. This is a guy that was part of developing AI. Yeah.

Yeah, so his brand was pretty cool back then. I do want to ask you, you were the only Democrat to go to Mar-a-Lago and meet with Trump during the transition. Afterwards, you told everyone, you said, you got to pack a lunch, chill out, let the guy get into office and try to work with him, which sounds consistent to what you've said you're still saying right now. But we're in three weeks into his administration, and he's essentially trying to take away the power of Congress. He's trying to take over the power of the purse and oversight.

I feel like he's trying not just me, but many people I've spoken to, including your own colleagues, say he's basically trying to neuter Congress through executive order. And it's Republicans who are warning about this as well. I mean, are you concerned about this? Is it time to pull a fire alarm?

What I'm saying, though, is that Congress hasn't been neutered. You know, our party, the Democratic Party, was limited by democracy and the election.

That's what actually had happened. The vast majority of these executive orders were just silly or they really weren't ever going to go anywhere. You can't retract a born American citizenship. You have to change the Constitution and you require a much, much different kind of a threshold to do that and that's never going to happen.

And if you want to change, you know, the Gulf of Mexico, the Gulf of America and those silly things, that's not going to go anywhere. Yeah, but it caused a lot of chaos last week. I mean, even Medicare payments, VA benefits, everything was impacted by the freeze in grants and funds. And then it got frozen and it was frozen. It was frozen. But still.

people don't really know where it stands because apparently the memo still exists. I mean, he wants to shut down the department of education and the USAID agency. So before, before we even come at, and then that is going to be where it's going to be a lot of pushback. Um, and, and I would say, I mean, that's bad politics. You know, I witnessed that, that in Pennsylvania when, when I was Lieutenant governor, um,

And then, and that's the governor Republican Tom Corbett, you know, he, he, he cut the educational budget and he thought that was smart, but he,

But, you know, everyone agrees that kids need to read and we have to invest in our education. And that's a loser. And the real losers are kids. And you're going to pay for that. So if you try to destroy the education system and the department, and then that's going to activate me to push back and say that.

That's wrong. And you are going to pay a political price on that because Republican children, families are going to have to read and blue. And a lot of the states that really rely on the education department more happen to be most of the red ones as well, too. So but that's when you say getting back to your point about those executive orders trying to neuter, you know, what has limited our power as democracy? And

And I am one of 47, and they have 53. They effectively don't need my vote or any Democratic vote. They're able to run the table. And they have the majority in the House. And they have a president there. It's perfectly aligned.

I campaign and I warn people, you can get the 777 on the slot machine and the jackpot is the Supreme Court because it's got a 6-3 majority. So from my standpoint, that's where it's at. And I am telling right now that we have to recognize, you know, they are limited in

other than abusing things like the UC and dragging everything out and taking 30 hours for every vote and those kinds of things. Right. But he literally, though, the money that went to the agencies that they tried to freeze you in Congress, you approved it a year ago. You appropriated that money. You decided that that money belonged in the federal departments and agencies to be dispersed. And he tried to stop that from happening. Right.

your goals are oversight and budget. Those are your duties. And he tried to stop it. So like, how can you work with someone who clearly doesn't want you to have any power? Well, that's my point. And the way that process goes, that a judge orders that that's not going to continue. And that process, how it all plays out. And, you know,

And you know, in no way- So you think he's done with that? Like this is over. We're not going to have this be an issue anymore. He understands that the Congress is a counterweight to the executive branch. No, I think that his goal was to create as much chaos as possible. And he's done that.

and to create a lot of distractions and this nonstop kinds of a cycle. And that's what I've warned that we're two little two and a half weeks in. And I'm saying, what is the response? Well, what's the answer? Let's scold more. Let's yell more. Let's jump online and all the sick burns. And

And just acknowledge, it's like maybe realize for the first two years until we will absolutely learn they're going to lose the majority in the House. I mean, that's not because we're geniuses or we've ran a great campaign. But historically, that's really effectively never happened where there's blowback against the incumbent party. And then the House is going to be destroyed.

that's going to jam up the trifecta and you're never going to get anything through there without having forced to work with the Democrats through, through this as well. So for the first two years, he's going to have an incredible amount of latitude. And I warn people, I warn people that,

And I would be surprised if they don't move for the filibuster because the filibuster and the Democrats, we, including myself, we ran on eliminating the filibuster. And if you drop the filibuster in the Senate, then you can pass anything because they'll have all the votes that they need to do that. And that's really the last emergency break to ramrod the kinds of legislation to remake the society and that.

So that would be a surprise for me if they don't quickly realize that executive orders really aren't really effective and you can't really do too much done with that. So if I'm standing within the middle of the filibuster in my legacy and I'm

And I'm done. And they know I have two years to do whatever that I want to do. So that really, the filibuster, I wouldn't be surprised if they move for the filibuster for that. So you've got your hands tied for the next two years. But, you know, you're in the committee, the Agriculture Committee. What if your department or your agency just goes away completely? Yeah.

And what I'm trying to say is, of course, they're not going to go against the Ag Committee because that's so important. And that's a vast-- that's mostly a Republican-- most of it, that's a Republican issue.

And most people realize that we need those kinds of committees. And trying to, you know, it's just, that's just part of a silly kinds of a process and a kind of a conversation that never goes anywhere. And if everything is a freak out and everything, you know, let's respond that way, pretty soon people are going to stop paying attention to it and trying to figure out a way to find a win and to push through a lot of it. And

And now the way we're at and if you're already in the front of the steps of all these buildings and yelling and saying things like it's a coup, then we are pretty much what's left at this point where, you know, like so that's that's unknown. But at this point, Trump is he is he is bound by nothing. He can run.

and have as many silly and crazy kinds of executive orders. And you have the numbers in the Senate and they have the numbers in the house. You can't have some of the courts to do that, but then you're going to have, you know, if it ends up at the Supreme court and it seems very likely that the Supreme court is well too. That's what I'm saying. Like that,

That's the ultimate. That takes a lot of time to get to the Supreme Court. And that's a lot of time for, you know, Americans to feel the pain. Not necessarily. Some of it, some of the most important things that can escalate in the Supreme Court have the they have the opportunity to to handle it. This episode is brought to you by me. Undies underwear drawers are like the Wild West. You never know what you're going to pull out or what shape it's in. So upgrade your collection with the buttery soft comfort of

That's meundies.com slash Spotify. Code Spotify.

Which Manning brother will win the FanDuel Kick of Destiny 3 on Super Bowl Sunday? Peyton or Eli? Watch the showdown live on Super Bowl Sunday. Plus, new customers bet $5 and get $200 if your bet wins. Only on FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook.

21 plus and present in Virginia. Must be first online real money wager. $5 deposit required. Bonus issued is non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See full terms at fanduel.com slash sportsbook. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. What do you think about Elon Musk's expansive role in government? No one elected him, and yet he seems to have more power than you, a sitting senator. I know the Democrats are suing Doge, but it just feels like that's a little too late.

Yeah, well, I mean, I don't think it's clear. I mean, there's an agenda there. I don't really, I don't agree. I think a lot of it's strange. Who knows what's happening right now as well, too. But he clearly was empowered by

a president that was empowered by Americans people that say like this, we want things shaked up. We want these kinds of things to break and smash. And for, you know, at least half the population, they agree with what's happening in RL2. So, you know, we lost, I think in part because we were perceived as the party of chaos.

The second the Republican side become, they become the chaos party, then things will shift and people can realize that I really ultimately, I voted for chaos, I voted against kind of chaos. I want more stability. And now the second the Republican party, the critical mass of people decide that now the Republicans are becoming the party of chaos. And you know, I wanna vote for order. I wanna vote for normality. I wanna vote for kinds of basic kinds of values.

But we're two weeks into this administration, so it's been a lot. We knew that it's gonna be a storm.

But there's a lot more on the snow on the ground than anyone would have predicted. But, you know, you have to keep your shovel and figure out what you're going to respond and push back. But if you jump on the steps of the next builder or jump on this and start yelling and everything, pretty soon people are going to be like they're not going to pay attention. And the most severe kinds of language and the commentations and

It's already going to lost its word. It's going to lose their value or any kinds of value. And no one's going to pay attention to it. Is there anything, though, that if he did it, you would just like so fiercely oppose it? You wouldn't be able to kind of just accept like this is just Trump's mandate. This is what the people wanted. Is there anything to you that's like truly crossing the line?

For me, what's crossing the line? Yeah. Well, I mean, it's like you've been you know, the election was about warning people that this is going to cross a line, you know.

So we're all getting a lesson right now, sort of, is what's happening. Well, what I'm saying, though, it's like, you know, democracy spoke and they they chose that side. And I you know, for whatever you can criticize Trump, you can have to be honest, though, to say he ran on that. You know, he ran you to going to run on all of these things. So that's what America chose. And so, you know, what line, you know,

The line was crossed that the second he was going to be running, you know, for president for a second term. And America had a conversation with our candidates and theirs. And they decided this is the best defender and protector of my view of American, the way of life. And, you know, here's where we are. And I'd like to remind that roughly half of my colleagues,

my colleagues and also people that live in my state agree with a lot of it that's happening right now. And I agree with much of it. I don't disagree with, I disagree with a lot of it, but that doesn't mean I have to, can or able to respond to every last thing.

and not everybody can fully respond to over 300 executive orders and all those kinds of things. Yeah, right. I mean, so honestly, so for me, I'd like to remind people that, you know, this is where

America decided. And now we have the opportunity to push back and to pick our fights. But when math is moved against us, when 53 is more than 47 in my chamber, the filibuster is the one thing that's stopping between being able to absolutely run the table on any kinds of bills or law as long as they get 50 votes on their side.

Yeah. So you seem to say that, you know, Americans, they have a chance to really rebuke Trump at the ballot box in 2026. And obviously he can't run again in 2028, but who knows? Do you have any interest in running for president?

Oh, well, I try to say that what I'm saying though, that 28 is going to be crazy. And now I'm worried about 26. Well, that's what I'm more concerned. But actually, I'm concerned about what's the next crazy thing that comes out of the chute.

And if they really effectively start going after the Department of Education, then I'm definitely going to be very, you know, I like to think that, you know, when I do speak or when I do weigh in on things, then that really, I think it really matters to me. But if I'm protesting or yelling about, you know, every last thing, then why anyone's paying attention? So for me, we're going to have plenty of opportunities to object and to push back, you

about things because we're not even close to a month into this administration. And that has been very clear that that's the process. Can someone like you, though, make it through a Democratic primary? Well, I mean, I'm not worrying about that. But what I'm saying, though, is

For anyone that's on the Democratic side that's angry at me for having dinner with Trump or trying to fight for wins, I'd like to remind you, like, I'm the senior senator in Pennsylvania, and I am the same party as you. I am never checking my party. You know, I haven't changed my values. You know, I've just chosen to have a different approach.

And it's a much different dynamic. And I'd like to remind everyone, you know, who's our next president isn't determined by the votes in Oregon or California or in Connecticut or these deep blue states. It actually is determined on states, one of them like mine. And, you know, we're actually top of that list.

everyone has to remember that, you know, when we are able to hold on to these seats and remember how close we almost lost our seats in Michigan and in Wisconsin and Nevada as well, too, we could have very much easily could have been 56-44 in the Senate as well, too. So, but so for me, it's like I'd like to remind everyone, if you're angry and

You know, talking with the Republicans, I think you have to remember the way the race, how that worked out and that the states that really determine who's going to be the next president, that's going to be about those six or seven states. And the things that we say or that we're forced to defend, that's going to get weaponized with unlimited money. And that's exactly what happened to the vice president in 24.

Are you worried about anything that the Democrats have been saying recently that will come back to haunt them in 2028? Well, all of it's going to come back. You know, there's unlimited money. That's another thing that we've discovered, that you have billionaires that can drop unlimited money in any race. And, you know, and money isn't going to define that race necessarily, though. Our side had more money, but

But I think we have to remember, who are we going to sell our vision for our country? And that is going to decide who's going to be the next president. The most effective and the most honest one that's able to make that argument in states no different than just my own, that's going to determine who's going to be the next president.

a lot of the shaming and the yelling and the protesting and the extreme kinds of views are coming from those kinds of states that really are not going to be part of the equation of determining the next president. Well, they pick the nominee. I mean, the primary states do. You know, they're part of the primary. But that still means that, you know, like everyone, everyone has to remember, you know, the kinds of

of values and the kinds of policies that it means to actually win. It's a much different between the primary versus the general. I mean, we're in this information age and it seems like all of the tech billionaires, tech oligarchy, whatever you want to call them, they're behind Trump right now. Are you concerned about that?

Well, yes, of course, you should be concerned about those things. But I'm not really surprised that that eventually happened. You know, you know, Musk, you know, he he figured out, hey, scarcity defines the luxury. You know, it

With unlimited money, well, what really motivates you? It's like, well, power or proximity to the ultimate kind of power. So, of course, people, you can drop hundreds of millions of dollars and you're worth approaching half a trillion dollars.

You know, even a billion dollar doesn't really matter much. Five billion. So so that's probably the single most destructive things in American politics. And that's a united citizens united.

Right. Are we ever going to hear from you? They got to get rid of Elon Musk. This guy's just got too much power. Of course. And that's the point. And now there's a lot of wealthy people. And that's why I'm saying so why money has become you have to assume that and

And every race, the next one is going to be the most expensive one. And then it's going to get more expensive and more and more expensive. And that was, I think, actually the 24th was transformative in that if Musk drops $300 million, remember, that's a small, small part of his fortune. Yeah, that was nothing to him. Exactly. I mean, it would be easier for me to buy you a cup of coffee.

- No different than that. - Right. - So that's the point. So, you know, it's gonna, you know, the velocity is gonna accelerate. It's gonna get more crazy.

And now there's going to be another billionaire that's going to change this and money, you know, and what's the chance of us change a citizen united? That's going to be the Supreme Court. And we're at six and three. I wonder if that will ever happen. Too much money behind that. Keeping that alive. Well, I remember back in and this isn't that far ago.

Tom Wolf, he was, you know, my governor when I was LG, he dropped $10 million into the race. And that was like, wow, $10 million. Wow. I mean, that, and that was essentially 10 years ago. I mean, that that's, that's quaint. Uh, now that, that means nothing now when $10 million, really that used to meant something back, you know, in 2013, 2014 cycle. I mean, that's, that's literally nothing right now. Um,

And so I want people to remind people now, whatever crazy it was in 24, it's going to get even more crazy in 26 and then ultimately in 28. And it's more and more money and money.

There's gonna be so much cheap money sloshing around because every billionaire figured out, "Hmm, I can have fun with that." Or I can have my own chance to have a significant impact on my own fortune and my own companies and my interests. - Yeah. All right, Senator Fetterman, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciated this. We'll have to see what week four will be like. - Yeah, well, I mean, there's gonna be a lot of freak out and I'm gonna be picking my fights.

And if they actively go after the Department of Education, you know, you're going to hear very, very strong kinds of opinions on might as well, too. And they're going to that's going to be one of the things that a significant move to turn them into the party of chaos. And the majority of Americans are going to vote for the party that's perceived as order and

for normality and really for working for more traditional. I mean, it works for Joe Biden in 2020, that's for sure. Well, sure, exactly. And that's what we can't forget, that people are never going to vote for chaos. You know, we want more order and we want more kinds of the vision of what they think their version of American way of life is.

And I think we have to define, you know, what I think that we're we're going to defend and protect the kind of American way of life, our version of what we define that. Are you concerned about USAID going away?

Well, sure. There's, there's, there's, there's a lot, but, but remember what was, what was the big scandal a couple of days ago? We've all moved on and then there's going to be another big scandal. But it does impact people. Like, I know it sounds like we're kind of treating it like it's all just some rhetoric and something's going to stop it. And sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but it does impact people.

Well, a lot of it. Most people, if you're if you are exhausted within the first mile of a marathon, you know, it's like I have to believe the American people are already exhausted. Are you getting phone calls from your constituents being like, hey, I tried to get my Medicare and I couldn't during that day or like I'm trying to figure this out with my loan. It didn't work. Or I mean, are you hearing any sort of feelings like that? Their lives have been disrupted by the government.

We have gotten some calls, of course. But overall, then we've moved on and then there's going to be the next one. So you find a solution and then you move on, essentially. Well, or, you know, sometimes you're not necessarily to do much about that.

But but it's going to it's going to continue to accelerate and it's going to continue to get more and more divisive. And then there's plenty there's plenty of Democrats that are going to be yelling the loudest. Are you just banking on the fact that Trump will inevitably like mismanage the government and then that will hand the Democrats back the power? I guess what I'm saying, though, he is he's freed. He's not running for another term.

Right. But 2026, he'll have no power at all. Yeah. So, you know, what he's been taught, what he's learned is, well, they can impeach me. They can put me on trials, you know, and now somebody can even actually shoot me, hit me in my head. And now I feel like that's one of the things he's learned that I effectively can do what I'd

It's really not the Republican Party. That's his party. It's his party that just happens to be labeled a Republican.

So he's absolutely he's bound. He's bound by nothing. You know, a lot of these choices to do these things. And now as an 80 year old man and thinking about what you want your legacy to be, this is not the way I would I would have behaved the way he has, you know, in many a lot of these choices. You know, I was hoping he would go for the big fights and he would go with a lot of those things, thinking more about a legacy, you

But I did agree on about standing with Israel. I did agree about making our border more secure. And I do in some of these other issues. But, you know, going after caring about what we name a mountain, I don't care about those things. And I definitely do not absolutely object if they go after the Department of Education or if they all those kinds of things. So we're going to have to pick and choose, you know, what we want.

Fascinating times. We'll have to see what happens next week, but thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. And I hope to reconnect with you again. Oh, thank you so much. If you like this show, please smash the subscribe button, share it with your friends, like, and comment. I'll be back with another episode next week.