JD Vance | All-In Summit 2024
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Hey, everybody, freeburg here. What you're about to hear is a discussion from our all in summit recording on september night. We're going to publish some of the best conversations once a week. If you want to see all the talk, subscribe to our youtube channel at youtube doc flash at all in and follow us on acts at the all in part, the speaker is not on the program.

not on the program. But I didn't notice there was a little .

bit of .

security here today.

Little extra security. This is your sex red meat moment. Yes.

OK read me for sex. Please walk me joining vice presidential candidate j events.

We are fans and.

You .

guys?

welcome.

So the x get .

introduced.

Look here that sex do.

Do you actually need to? A big introduction here. But I I give a few those .

of you really bad, a context. clues. I'm J, V, I. running.

And Normally he's beside his wife usha but now .

you get that's right. She's like the tarpey so whatever yeah yes, we want to three kids out here so we want to take see some fast stuff so they are fun.

You i'll say a couple of things about jd because um is a friend I think what I think really made me want to support jd for for senate and also for the VP position is that I think he represents to you could almost say contradictions back in two thousand three when jd graduate from school, know this is after the two hours that come down. And we gotten involved in iraq war, he was gung hope to go fight america's enemies.

And he enlisted in the marine tour and went off to serve in in the middle ast. Eventually he came to realize that that war was mistake, and I thought that that really represents one of the trade. So we really want, in in advice, present, or someone next to the president, which is that he had the patriot m and the courage to go serve america, but also the wisdom to realize when amErica shouldn't get involved in a war. So I want, I just.

The other, like, is an almost contradiction that jd represents, that he had worked in the tech industry, he had been a venture capitalist, he a bit in rooms like this, and he understands what IT takes to make amErica a more innovative place. At the same time, he comes from a part of the the middle st. Appalache that's a very poor part of the country and did not grow up in a privileged environment at all.

And he store remembers those people and he represents those people. And I think his ability to understand both parts of the country makes them, i'd say, a pretty unique political figures. So without let me stop and do you want to react IT to any of that?

Um well, you know first of all, thanks for having me been a big fan of the pod for a willing king, my first appearance so it's going to be with know the only thing I said that, David, is I do think there is a deep connection between the the poverty that I saw growing up in the fact that our entire economy is just less innovative than we pretend that is. And I know Peter teo and title others folks have talked about this.

But if you look at the real innovation, the american economy, it's been in the world of software. If you look at where the economy has been most stagnant, it's been in basically the heavily regulated parts of the economy, which is where ninety percent of the people that I represent the senate, and eighty percent of the people that I hope to represent as their life president, actually make their living, run their business and go to work every single day. And I think I think about tech, one of the things i'd like us to do is brought the actual a little bit and think about innovation, not just in software and innovation and transportation and logistics and innovation in energy and the whole sweet of things.

Because unless our economy is actually technological, innovative than the staging economy is fundamental, like the worst thing. And I think a lot of actually america's pathologies right now stem from the fact that we feel like we live a very few year, some country, because in some ways we do. The economy is growing four, five, six percent a year.

Then democrats, can I get what they want? Republicans can get what they want. IT all makes sense. If the economy is growing between zero and one percent in a year, then I think that makes the whole society and our political system much, much more insane. They gets kind of a sub text to what's been going on this country for the last thirty years.

Let me start .

by going back a little bit. I think three of us initially would have been described sort of like, you know non trump people yeah um and in different ways in shapes and form. We were all vocal about IT because of what was presented to us through the filter of the media.

And we've all gone to an evolution in large part by meeting the person. And this is the first time actually where a presidential candidate I known, and i've kind of known a rice personal cando in this case as well, get try. They tried to corner you and painted you in a certain way. Can you just talk about what you realized and the person that you got to know and what IT says about what we need to do that we don't get manipulated?

yeah. So first of all, when biden was running against trump, one of the things that media tried to do is to say, well, now you have these two guys were a little bit older than average, and both of them clearly aren't fully with IT. And I would hear the media talk about by like this, and then talk about trump like this.

And it's like guys, donal trump for members, exactly what I said about him nine and a half eight years ago to the minute of day, to the exact line, like, trust me, his memory is one hundred percent there, even if IT would be more more my interests if IT wasn't. And what changed for me? I mean, two two things. Mean, one of you just sort of hit on this says a lot of the things the press set about Donald tromp and says about Donald p are just straight at fabrications. And so if you think the press is like biased, that's one thing.

But if you think the process nominally trying to tell you the truth, even if it's in a biased way, and then you realized that like Donald p never called White supreme es very fine people after Charles's ill, a total fabrication ation of the american mediates like, okay, what other things am I hearing about Donald thump that are actually not sure, right? The second thing is we talked about this a little bit last night. But look, if you go back to the data, early year, my birth, which is nine hundred eighty four, there's this chart that's really interesting and attracts corporate profits, the wages of workers and the size of government.

And for pretty much my entire life, the wages of workers were stagnant, corporate profits were going up and the size of government was going up. And there was a four year period. Where are the wages of workers outpace the size of government? Corporate profits? It's the four years that Donald triples president and I think that we had to like, give some credit where to do the policies actually work and if you go into the president, he saying, I don't think that alone is going to be a good president and then loan behold, he's the breast president at at least in a generation.

It's like, okay, time to change my mind. Admit to myself that also, to all the people who listen to me, I was wrong about nala. Strong pews, a hell of good president. Of course, some running is is running away.

And I think i'll do IT again. Let's flit around. now.

What does that say about him that he, I mean, how is that process of sing? J, D, you said this? Yes, I did. I changed my mind. I then, but then he has to change his mind.

So that said something, so talk to, you know, I think the president, one thing i'll say about him is, again, the media perception of Donald thump is that is like that. This is deeply a ggt eve guy who holds really terrible bridges. The actual reality of Donald trump is that, yeah, he remembers what you said about him because it's like part of the inputs that he takes as he tries to evaluate a human being.

But most importantly, he's asking, like what what can you do now? How can you help the country now? How can you help me as I try to help the country now? And I think for whatever complicated set of factors, he decided that I was the guy who could help them the most.

But now, I mean, is interesting the perception of him as this guy who holds graders, he selected a guy, was very much a critic of his back in twenty fifteen. This is running made clearly something doesn't make sense. And I think that what doesn't make sense of this idea that trump is more motivated by grievance than he is by the public interest.

He's actually much more motivated by the public interest. That's the truth. That's .

you're extra coming course you're gonna place my pants so yeah to .

give .

me a close election. But if you do mike pants, your new boss trump little upset at mike pants because mike pants refused to overturn the election results and if you're in that same position, what would you do? Would you have overturned the election results?

Well, I think that we take issue with the premise a little. But Jason, because I don't think the argument was mike pence could overturn the election results. I think the argument was that mike pence could have done more, whether you agree or disagree, mike pence could have done more to sort of surface some of the problems, but you would not certified the election.

Would you have not certified? Think, I think that what I would have done, I mean, look, I to think that there were issues back in twenty, twenty, particularly in pennsylvany, even into some of the courts that refused to throw out certified baLance, say that they were baLance, they were cast and in illegal way, they just refuse to actually decertify the election results in pennsylvania. Do I think that we could have had a much more rational conversation about how to ensure that only legal ballots are cast? yes.

And do I think that my pins could have played a Better role? yes. But again, the two process, and I take issue you want as one, pince was not asked to overturn the election he couldn't have.

but to the recess to not certify IT. sure. Would you have certified the letter for the I would .

have asked the states to submit alternative states of electors and let the country have the debate about what actually matters and what kind of an election that we had for the states.

To be clear.

I would have asked the states in the middle of lai, that's that's, that's what I would have done. Again, i've said that publicly many times. We gain jin. The important part is we would have had a big debate and IT doesn't necessarily mean the results would have been any different, but we least would have had the debate in pennsylvania and georgia about how to Better have a rational election system where legal baLance or cast. And again, look, I have no personal problem with my pants.

I've never talked to him, but I think that the idea that the reason mike pence is an on board with Donald trump is over the election of twenty and twenty. That's the other thing I want to take issue with Jason e, because I think in reality that have downal trump wants to start a nuclear world of russia, mike pints would be at the front of line endorsing him right now. And fundamental the reason the old guard of the republican party hate down al trump. It's not because of january the six, twenty, twenty one, whatever your views on IT, it's because Donald trump doesn't think that we should start stupid wars and foreign countries and match .

why they all hate them.

I will follow on them. Let me know my .

land of questioning. Then i'll give cheever because I went to hear jb us insist here I for girls many times so how how many .

people are going to have about january six talking? I want to hear David especially .

give me out of answering tough question.

So I think you ve had like three flips on jay ic first, or you never got chance .

to want to talk about. Let's talk about genuine six, the next forty five months. The most important thing, the country.

right? We think about policy for minute that be great.

I love that.

I'll just reflect back on your comment about government growth compared to wage growth compared to corporate profits. There's only so much capital IT get sucked up somewhere is competing interest that sucked IT up. The government is a competing interest that sucked up capital.

Fundamentally, the government has been successful and sucking up capital. And ultimately, the government has been proven time and again. To be believed efficient way to grow the economy of allocating capital, alligators or labor.

And um trump has made this commentary that elon was going to be here later today to come in and help write size the government. You've you've now spent a few years of the senator. This is my most distressing issue, right of all the panic attack, I have the jacks and teases me about government spending, the debt level.

And ultimately you reach a tipping point. I believe in democracies where the government is spending most more, people are dependent on the government that are not, and that ultimately leads to a very bad outcome. Ford democracy, that's how I feel. And so based on what you've seen as the senator now for the last years and based on the computer that you want, where where would you go in, you know, cut, where's the most kind of efficiency gaining opportunity that we can kind of execute against without needing to go and negotiate with congress? What's the opportunity ahead for the executive branch to write size government, to make things more efficient, to hold people accountable, to improve the way that the government is functioning, which I think ultimately leads a Better economic road and opportunity for innovation because capital flows to the right places.

So I agree with you, and let me just say let me see two things and not trying answer briefly because another, a lot of topics that we've d get through. So so number one is one of the things that our government should do, obviously, I think should be doing less than IT currently does. But what IT does? I wanted to do well.

And most importantly, I want the critical social welfare functions of our government to go to the people who actually deserve to be here. So as united states center, I have asked multiple staff members, i've asked officials and various government departments, if you take the giver, take twenty five million legalities that are here in this country right now. How much money do we spend on legal aliens every single year in this country? And i've gotten estimates that range between one hundred billion dollars year to six hundred billion dollars year.

And where does that money come from? What comes from health care benefits, even though illegal alien aren't entitled to section ate housing, their children are in time the section ate housing. There's also a lot of social security fraud, a lot of medicare fraud.

So one thing that we could save a lot of money on is actually focusing our national interest on american citizens. People would deserve to be here. We could save a lot of money. That way there would be a huge entry.

seven point three trillion dollar budget. What do you have to make that impact to be? Well, again, and i'm trying to do that the movie day.

they just like if he called a one point seven trying dollar deficit right now, again, it's between one hundred billion doll, six hundred billion dollars to pinning on how you cut the numbers. Now the the other thing about that, just to answer question about efficiency, is I think the government procured process, especially in military equipment, is really broken. If you go back to eyes and hours warning about the military industrial complex, I mean, I I was a seed investor. And Andrew, I imagine if I have some and old people here today.

today.

one of the things that that company, as I know I would talk to, to do the guys about the details of the business in the last few years, but one of the things that they found at the company on was the idea that the procurement process was broken. Yeah, and that is definitely true in the you know, we do wait too much cost plus procurement and wait too little actual spiring innovation.

And what that ends up meaning is that our equipment isn't as good as IT should be and we end up spending a lot more money than we should be. I actually do think you could cut the american defense by and make our country stronger, but you would have to make the procured process much more efficient. Now that's a big thing to tackle.

but that's what all in this business.

I don't know that you have to pass legislation, but you really, as a president, vice president, used to be willing to take on some very powerful defense contractors. And that's something that I know present trump, I very much want to.

And how would you like your role as vice president to be cast differentially from how other vice presidents have have Operated? What would your role as an individual day .

just speaking about? I want to do all of the good things and of the .

bad things on the ribbon tings .

of the new federal. I mean, mean that obviously joking, but the reality is that I want to be a second set of eyes in the ears for the president agenda, right? One of the things that was true, and he will tell you this, the first time he he was first united states, there were people in government.

There were people in his own administration that he was a newcomer to politics. He didn't fully trust everybody who was around them. We want to build a team who's actually a line on the agenda because agree or disagree with the trump on a specific policy issue, assuming the american people make in the next president, and I think that they will, that is the next president and his policy determinations should the executive administration of government.

If they don't, we don't have a real democracy. And by the way, just not to IT weight back in the general six territory, like what is a bigger threat to american democracy, is that that we had a big fight about some of the some of the certification in january the sixth. And of course, you had some writers at the capital.

Or is that that, for example, the joint chiefs of staff didn't obey the president, the united states, on troops redeployments in syria, which actually happened during trumps administration, like we've going to talk about threats to democracy. We need the government to be responsive to the american people's elected president. If you don't have that.

you don't have a role much, much.

A lot of this, if you design IT in one way, has to go through congress, which, as we know, is gorod can be seeking, nothing can happen.

And then the other path is for you guys to go hamp a little bit and say, okay, what can we do with executive order? Have you had a chance to discuss if you win, repositioning the focus as basically that what is the totality of everything that we can do from the house, from the oval and then getting all of these? And the other thing that we should talk about some point is like it's like a vengeance movie. And now at this point, you Bobby Kennedy, elon.

I know the justice league .

the justice league. I don't know which character that justice league I am.

Point is, have you had that discussion about like, right folks, let's not yeah wait for congress and get a plan ready starting day one of all the stuff that can happen through eos? Or how are you thinking .

about this at a high level? Certainly, i'm more of the coach the transition. There are few others of us who are working on IT IT is sort of think about, I mean, look, the way the founder set up our government, whether like IT or not.

There are certain things, especially when IT comes to budget and appropriations. You just have to go through congress, right? You fundamentally have to.

Now I do think that congress is willing to work with us at least in the first couple of years of administration. You can largely get the budgetary, an appropriations things that you need, but there is a lot that you can do through E. O. And by the way, in a lot of ways, I think the enlargement of the president at the expense of congress is a bad thing. But fundamental, there is a lot that happens in our government purely through executive borders, through eos.

And yes, we're thinking very deliberative vely about all the things that you could do through e IOS on day one or in the early parts of the administration and begin not to make this two partisan but one of the ways that that um that bind and Harris opened up the american southern border was through executive order. He was an executive order of this is the deportations an executive order that ended the remain mexico policy so you can screw a lot three OS. You can also fix a lot three OS, which is certainly something that we're focused on.

Let me go in a different direction. This in the last couple of days, dick chi endorsed ed commoner's president, and that endorsement was warmly embraced. Ed by by combat Harris and the democrats.

the same people called up a world criminal .

like three years ago. Yeah, ah well, yeah. I'm enough to remember back in two thousand and eight, a obama first beat Hillary clinton in the democratic primary because he had opposed the iraq war and he had supported, and then he got elected to press united states.

And the whole country seem to recognize that the iraq war had been a disaster. IT disability zed, at the least, I don't need to go throughout the little news of of horrible set that happened for IT, but there's simply a wise for recognition. And like you're saying, dc cHennai was kind of demonized as this, like the dark fade or print, the darkness ness type figure, which I think basic was right. I mean, he was the principal protective of the iraq war.

Now I found myself agreeing with everything the democrats said in two thousand and eight .

about training right to on a separate track. A few weeks ago, we had Bobby Kennedy indoors, Donald trump. So you now have a dynamic where the bush republicans are now heroes democrats, and the Kennedy democrats are now trump republicans. Thirdly, something big is happening on our politics here. Can you explain this resignation?

How do you see IT? Yeah, I mean, look one way, think about IT, is that we traded dicky for Bobby Kennedy. And that's a great right.

Mean, one way of understanding, as you'd ask yourself, who has benefited and who is harmed from the last thirty years of the by parsing instance in this country, right? So you talk about a manufacturing policy that I think promoted the offshoring of millions of good american manufacturing jobs in the process, by the way, made us less self reliant as a country that really benefit people like dicey and computer errors and their donors. IT didn't benefit the people that I serve in state ohio.

Okay, if you asked yourself who actually won't often fought these ridiculous wars, IT was very often of working in the the class, kids and communities like mine. IT wasn't the family of our current leadership class. By and large, though, of course, there are exceptions. And you go through each of these issues, what you find is increasingly, republicans are the party of working middle class people above. I Kennedy has talked about this a lot, and I think he puts a bit than I ever could.

But that you go back even thirty years ago, and approximately eighty percent of the counties that represent its eighty percent of the wealth in american countries went in places that voted republican and about twenty percent of the wealth that went to places that voted democrat. Now seventy percent of the wealth goes for democrats and about thirty percent of the wealth goes for republicans. And you saw this in a big way.

I mean, just one illustration is that I believe in in twenty twelve, wall street, which I think wall street fundamentally has been the main beneficiary realization of of a lot of the policies that I pushed back against some criticize of the last thirty years. Wall street went three to one for romney over obama. And twenty twelve, I believe they went four to one for for clinton over trump in twenty sixteen and then like nine to one for biden over trump in twenty twenty. So there is a massive shift. And who makes up these party?

Wealthy people direct their money to democrats.

And increasingly, wealthy people direct their money to democrats working in the the class. People direct their money to work. Think that I, again, because I think their policies have benefit.

Look, the unparted, the coma heroes and dickinson, their parties have benefit a certain group of people. Those people are increasingly democrats. Donal trump has been pushing back in a second census in his party, in his policies, I think, to fit the majority of the country.

So increasingly, I think the working the middle class hard of the country is going for republican. Another spin mist, because I know what focus on tech and this conference is big tech has become increasingly pro democrat. Little tech has become increasingly pro republican, right? So if you're an upstart, if you're in crypto, if you're if you're like a small a eye company, I think you're much more likely to be pro republican if you're a monopolist and big tech.

I mean, look at facebook, google, how they putting their resources. It's much, much more prodest craters. There are a lot of different spins on IT. But fundamental, I think, that people who've benefited from the american decline are becoming democrats, the people who have suffered from IT and are pushing .

back against that of republicans. I have a follow question on that, jd, which is you are a venture capitalist for a period and licking has essentially take an emile off the table. You will know that if we can get those singles and doubles in the industry, the kind of phrases is the industries.

And we have a problem with returns, which then is having creating A A secondary order problem where we can get lp s to put more money into funds because we're not getting those returns. What's the proper way to look at ema? Because you you want to break up big tech from what I understand.

And you have a major problem with big tech. You mention little tech. What's the proper ma architecture you to to baLance those two goals there?

yes. So this is obviously very complicated. I just so you understand this Better than I do.

But as somebody by those who's defended lino and some of her critics from the right, I think what lindon fundament gets correct is that big tech really is a thread. It's a threat to free speech. It's increasing about alegria. IT controls too much of what we're lowed to say and also IT controls a lot of the ways in which capital gets invested in these various ecosystems. But where I think the lindon goes wrong is you're exactly right.

Like you need the singles and doubles, you need sometimes a medium sized company to buy a smaller company for three hundred million dollars, right? That liquid etes founders that gives the venture fund some money to go back in the system. And I think now I don't know, are super well, but my basic read on lena is that he is so and time monopoly is sort of a baseline bias, and anti that becomes anti merger acquisition as a baseline bias that google buying youtube is a much, much different thing from a two billion dollar market cap.

Health care company buying a five hundred million dollar market cap, head care company. And I think that we have to sort very big distinction between big tech and big tech. And look, i'm going to keep on making that argument both in public and private to lina. And hopefully, he comes around to our view little bit because I do think some of her ideas on big tech or right.

I think a good place for to people would would be the border. And just talking about this issue more from first principles, when president trump came on the podcast, we talked about, hey, maybe really talented people. We should recruit them to our country and give them Green cards.

But very quickly, your group walk that back a bit. It's such a political hot potato. And IT doesn't seem to me that he needs to be. But you have spent a lot of time in government.

Now, what? Why can't politicians just do what eighty percent of the country wants, which is allow very talented people into the country, close the border and make IT like A A more point, a system like canada, australia, everybody else. Like, why is this so web ized by both of your parties?

What I think the reason why it's so difficult right now and I mean, look, generally, I agree that, okay, we're going to let some immigrants and we want them to be high talent, high quality people. You don't want to let a large number of legal aliens, and obviously that that that president trumps for.

But I think that the reason why it's so broken down right now is because you have twenty five million illegal alien in this country and you like, you can't fix what I would call the minor or sort of less important immigration question until you fix the real problem. And part of that goes back, by the way, to the way in which the system got broken in the first place. So wrong, greg.

And of course, great coder california, a great president, but rigging in one thousand nine hundred and eighty six, a massive healthy programme. Or in some ways, he was trying to do exactly what you're talking about, fix the problem with people already here, make sure that our immigration system is more pro skills, but also closed down the border. And what happened is we got all the amnesty, but we didn't get the closing down of the border.

And so in in order to do anything I think meaningful on immigration policy, meaning legal immigration policy, you've got to close down the border and establishing basic order. And to go back to first principles here, I think that people who are generally at me look at this is, i'm sure, a very diverse crowd. And i'm sure there are a lot of immigrants in this crowd, legal immigrants.

Hopefully I married to the daughter, I married to the daughter of legal immigrants to this country. And I, of course, love not just my wife with the whole extended family. And you think rought a yeah and but the here's the thing, when you allowed twenty five million people into this country, IT breaks down the entire social compact, right? So think about this.

Okay, you're down on your luck. You lost your job. You get unemployment insurance. You're really down luck. You need food assistance from the federal government.

I believe, as a conservative, that part of being in the same american family, whether your family's been here for a generation or ten generations, is that we support people who are down on the luck. We don't want to cradle to grave welfare state, but we want to support people. We don't kids who are dying because of starvation, because of no fault of their own.

We want to promote some basic fairness, and we want to help people out when times get tough. But you can't do that if you extend that generosity. Took tens of millions of people who came on to be here in the first place.

And I think that what common here is, is done at the border. It's not just bad economically. It's not just bad for public safety. SHE has eroded the very foundation of the social contract in this country. And we talk about division in our politics, and kamala has this ridiculous slogan, we are not going back.

The reason why politics is so divided is because he has turned american citizens against one another while she's placed the the interests of legal aliens above american citizens. You want to turn the page and get back to come on american citizenship. Stop putting a legal alliance. The from the line of american .

citizens is the motivation. Do you believe the motivation is endless empathy, or is IT as simple as we want new democratic voters? Or is there a kind of not publicly spoken about economic argument about bringing wages down, having economic growth, having new buyers in the economy, that there is some .

benefit despite one hundred and six hundred guilt yeah the .

end empathy asked that, yeah, yeah. I mean.

empathy is different than guilt.

It's all of these things, right? I mean, so let me tell you a brief story. And this goes back to my my changing my minon, donal trump.

I was probably twenty seven and twenty eight, and I was at a business conference, happened to be seated next to one of the largest hotel chain, CEO, in america. My wife was there. And we talk about, this is the monopoly story, because the guy is just going off, maybe I had too much to drink.

He's going off about how Donald trump s immigration policies have had forced him to raise the wages of his workers and I was like, oh, but that's an interesting fact like, explain more about this, sir, please. I want to understand, and he said, well, because we can hire a lot of immigrants, and Frankly, we can hire a lot of illegal immigrants under the table, and we can do that because there are fewer illegal immigrants, have to pair american citizen workers more money. And i'm like, oh, shit, that sounds tty good, actually.

Isn't that like what we want is for people to be earning higher wages for doing a good job? So there's definitely economic piece of IT. But I also think I mean, like this, this is showed out a little IT, partially because we're in an election year of come.

Heroes won. I think I would come back with a vengeance. But think about all these like ridiculous landing knowledges, right? Where people say, well, you, I want to acknowledge that this belong to, like, this tribe before I was here.

And if you genuinely think that you have to acknowledge a native american tribe from three hundred years ago, then one attitude that comes along with this is, why can I control at all who comes into the country? right? I have no right.

There's this basic. This is the empathy. Is the girl that sort .

of all these things but all turn and the .

great exactly I have no right to say who comes into my community and I think again, it's dr. anged. But I think that's part of that.

I think the economic piece of IT is part of IT. It's vote argument. I mean, democrats will say this. Of course, republicans are accused of racism for just repeating what democrats have said. When somebody like chuck humor says, well, we're going to have an emerging democratic majority because we're going to have all these new immigrants and all the old americans well, they're going to vote for republicans but we're going to replace them with much of new people who vote for democrats is like, that's pretty sick but again, if you call IT out, you're somehow a racist even though chuck humorous yourself calling IT out as if they were a good thing.

I just want to ask, uh, on a different topic. Now, thank you for talking .

about the border. You just have one fund on this topic, OK, which is your plan is to deport tens of millions of these people. Tell us how that will happen practically. How are you going to a take million of people put them in cough, dragged them out while people have their cell phones out recording this? Or is that just trumping trump?

Well, j son.

like you like the baLance in the podcast.

yeah. I do. no.

And in fairness, jd, me, J. D, tell me, ask the hard questions, please. I want to dress them. I did say .

that I think Jason .

should be on the left and David should be on my calling me to him and it's .

he didn't have any these hard questions for read often.

I don't know why. So do you want me to read the left and go to .

the right?

J, I, on the left right now I could go right. okay. yeah.

I guess that depends on perspective. My perspective. You, the, but. j. If the VC thing doesn't work out, you'd make a great panellist CNN. No, by the way, I love this, and I genuinely think like this is what a person who wants to be your vice president should actually do is answer.

Sometimes I, you give you for that, you will face the hard question. So back to the question, something about ragging millions of people.

the country. J, here's I find this question a little off, and I really answer IT. But I it's like somebody who comes to me and like eating my lunch and they say that sandwiches ten times the size of your mouth.

How are you possibly going to eat that whole sandwiches? Like, well, i'm going to take a first bite, and I would want to take a second time, and I take a third by. And eventually the problems gonna.

Look, you start out with a million people, who we call criminal migrants, people who have committed violent crimes in some form. Another, get them out of our country. Yes, hand up those people, enforce them out of the country.

But you also do other things simultaneously. First of all, you stop the bleeding, right? You undo commute Harris policies that open the south thern border in the first place.

I've got a piece of legislation in the united states senate that we've got a lot of colleague source to sign up for IT, which would tax reminders, right? Because we know a lot of people are earning money. And then sitting IT back to sentimental a where they came from.

If you enter that practice and you have a lot of people who go bug willingly, I think you want to make IT harder for people to hire illegal labor as opposed to american citizens. You take through these things. And I do think think you know that's the sand which approach to this is you try to take IT one step at a time.

But the most important thing, and I think the deportations focus again, IT is important because we're eventually we are going to deport people. But the most important thing is to stop the bleeding. You've got to stop the millions of people flowing across the southern border every single year. IT happened because of computer is is policies. It's going to stop when Donald as president.

Let me ask national security questions.

Yes.

there's a lot of videos. You ons gone down, their Bobby Kennedy gone down there or you've gone down there. And the introductions are not necessarily coming from countries in central and south america.

More they're coming from places in near around near asia and a lot of places that you wouldn't Normally think people coming from a middle east eeta from a national security perspective. What do we think is happening? yeah.

Why is that happening? yes. So what part of the reasons happening is anian? It's people from, you know, all over asia, africa. If if you look at this, that is the open door, right? So if you want to come to this country, that is the open door, and god knows why some of them want to be here.

I mean, given what's going on in the middle, I do worry about military age males maran come into this country through the southern border but know actually asked a border full lation about this um on one of my visits and great guy was actually kind of harper broken because he signed up to protect this country and he's a relatively recent immigrant I tell that by as accent guy is like very nervous and very hard, broken about the fact that he can do his job. And he told me this story and I feel like an idiot and nino, because he's like, we have a guy who came in here. Why ask a guy like, what do you think this guy, iranian and he said, well, because he came through and he said that he was and I was like, well, couldn't have been mexican.

He said, what? He didn't speak spanish. Let's to tell you speak. That's probably pretty significant until but it's it's happening because this is what como hero is done. She's created this massive gap in our national security and people taking vange of IT.

It's really not that surprising. Jade, let me just ask you one more foreign policy question um on china. So there's a balancing act with china, but the rhetorical c is that's our enemy.

There's going to be a cold war. The structural relationship that the united states has with china is a very kind of code dependent relationship. They buy our bonds.

We guess they're selling him off now. We buy a lot of product from them. IT allows us to go into a wall mart and get know forty dollar scooters for our kids are twenty dollar scooters for our kids.

The technology industry is deeply dependent on a supply chain coming from china. There is a great commercial interdependency with china. They have historical been a very important partner to the united states and our economic prosperity. And I know the argument about following out middle class and so on because of moving everything off shore to china.

But you how do we rip that banded off and not cause massive problems with inflation? How do we not um you know drive the cost everything up by terrifying things that are coming in from china? What's the way forward with china is not necessarily a deeply kind of device of cold war? Or is there a path here that allows us to maintain a baLanced trading relationship and and kind of a peaceful transition with china as they continue to to build up their kind of capabilities economically and um with energy, which I drivers.

So there's a lot there and let me try to take a few pieces of because I know we're relatively short on time. So the number one is the energy piece of its very important part of the way that you reassure american manufacturing is that you open up american energy IT matters for crypto, matters for AI. You've got to open up american energy or you're never gonna, whether it's the next generation manufacture goods or the past generations.

You've got to open up american OK. That's number one. Number two is, look, I don't want to go to war with china. I think that would be hugely destructive. But I do think that we have to reassure more american manufacturing. What are the weird things about china, if you think about past areas of developing nations, right, to go back to, like when the U. K.

Was the most advanced conomo in the world and amErica was a developing nation, well, one of the things that happened is that the capital was flow from the UK into the united states, right from the developed into the developing nation. What's really weird about china is that it's like americans borrows money from chinese peasants to then buy the things the chinese peasants are making for us, right? So it's not just the goods flow that's jacked up, it's the capital flows that are jacked up.

And I really think that the next Donald drop is going to be the next press united states. And this is something where to have to figure out is that you need to baLance both the capital and the goods flumes. okay.

I'm not saying where to have absolutely no trade with china, but right now, the relationship is fundamental, that the chinese have figured out they can create a massively powerful, productive society, while amErica becomes a weaker, weaker consumer of society. That is the broken nature of the relationship. And I think rebalancing is the right way to think about IT. But we've got to do that, I think way.

way behind the you maybe final question, but you said something which I thought was incredibly well set. So I just anna repeat IT. When us growth is one to two percent, everybody's fighting exactly.

But when U. S. Is four to five percent, everybody prosperous. yes. Can you walk us through just how you think about how we get that extra two or three hundred basis points of growth where you need to have less regulations so that you can have more entrepreneurship or more regulation to kind of constraint .

folks these and less regulation .

for that energy sector? Yeah, I mean, I really do things that we have to recognize that we have massively overregulated the real world, right, over regulated transportation, overregulated energy overregulated home construction.

I don't know that it's I don't know how easy is another three hundred bps of growth, but I think you get a lot more growth, whether there is three hundred or one fifty, just by massively reducing the amount of regulatory burden in the real economy. And again, I am an optimist. I'm fundamental and optimistic on both crypto, lock chain, web three stuff that also on AI.

And the way out of this may very well be to radically open up the way the technological innovation drives things in the united states. And just on this point about china, I don't know how a china where we have, i'll try to be quick about this. One of the things that bob OK, right, well, i'm a politician.

So bucklin were to be but one of the real concedes s of the thirty years of globalization that I think was really, really danes, and hints at very wrong. Bobbi hizzies was dropped. Trade representative talks a lot about this is we had this concede that we can separate the manufacturer of things from the design n of things, right? So if you get iphone right now and you get that out of the box, you will see that IT says designed in putin's california.

Of course, the implication is that is manufactured in chinese or wherever their manufacturing iphones. These days, the idea that the iphone is designed in cupertino is increasingly no longer even true, right? Is something that we lie to ourselves about, because the people who are doing all the manufacturing of the hardware of the iphone are getting much Better at design and innovation.

And part of the reason why I care so much about this manufacturing things, whether it's an biotics, for example, why, why haven't, why is an american venting in anio tics? And thirty years IT probably has something to do with the manufacturing of anodos is done almost entirely in very low cost manufacturing ing areas. You can go through a whole host of goods like this.

But if you want to build a high tech, high dynamic growth economy, you have to have some native manufacturing in some self reliance. And so these two two things are very related. And I think it's a big part of getting back to four, five percent growth is accepting that, yes, we're going to have trade.

but we can't let everybody .

make all our stuff.

yeah. Well, I I want to wrap this up because I think we were based at time, but I just observing that both Donald trump and j events have been on this podcast. And it's not because i'm a crazy right winger.

It's because we invited them.

not just because. It's because we invited them and they accepted. We have similarly invited combat .

heroes .

and ten. We're so we said yes, he lost .

he .

lost a zoom like so .

we want to real yes, we want to reexamine the .

invitation yes.

to both coming here and tim, what you're welcome. Come on the podcast anytime and the format will be some learn .

ah and I just want to say, jd, I think your answers were fantastic car today and I really do appreciate you coming on and answering these questions. Very thought fully. And you know from my perspective, when I heard that you were announced as the VP, I thought, well, this is great a Young person um who's got a lot of experience in venture capital and building things in the world and somebody who comes from humble beginnings like the four of us and believes that a meritocracy where people work hard and get reward for IT you check all my boxes in that way and I I really think I feel much Better.

I know have my issues with your boss, but when you talk about, you know the bite size, you know, steps to IT, I think one framework to look at your relationship with trump s, he says things, you know, at the top of the the highest vibration. We're going to be four twenty million people. And then you have very practical, sixty percent tires makes no sense.

But hey, we've got a rebaLance this. And so I really do like your measured approach to this, and I think that you're a great counterbaLance. And I think we understand .

why he picked I I want to say one thing.

And this is not really related anything except that you are not supposed to be here.

That's right.

Yeah and that is really inspiring to other people who are not supposed to begger.

Thank you.

yeah. And if you haven't read taking book, I read your book long before all of this, and I just want to say your book was inspiring. And I have recommended IT long before today to you know little hundreds of people. It's a fantastic read. If you haven't read .

out well and by the way, available, whatever books are sold you might take out, do you have to five, twenty nine account for the kids? Just, just two things. First of all, I, J, and I appreciate what you said, but I I also just want to defend my right running made here because I think that, again, the media doesn't often tell you the truth about Donald.

Donald truck cares more about the details of public policy than almost anyone i've ever met in public life that actually real. He thinks about how the stuff affects the real economy in real americans. So if your on the fence where they like what I said or dislike what I said, I just encourage you listen to what he actually says because I think that you'll become a believer that he can make the country great again as he promises.

But separate from that, I just want to say this is such an important conversation, and you guys hold an host important conversations every single day. We should do more, but as a country, but i'm glad to participate today. Good bless.

Get IT back.