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This is Jessica Knoll, host of the new series Back in Crime. If you're a follower of true crime, you're probably familiar with some of the most shocking stories from our history. Horrific tragedies like the Columbine Massacre. He turned the gun straight at us and shot. Oh my God, the window went out. And the kid standing there with me, I think he got hit. Okay. Oh God. And notorious criminals like cult leader Charles Manson.
In a scene described by one investigator as reminiscent of a weird religious rite, five persons, including actress Sharon Tate, were found dead at the home of Miss Tate and her husband, screen director Roman Poliansky. But what if we were to turn back the hands of time and relive these events as they unfolded? Follow along each week as we take a fresh look at crimes from the past. Back in Crime is available now.
Voices for Justice is a podcast that uses adult language and discusses sensitive and potentially triggering topics including violence, abuse, and murder. This podcast may not be appropriate for younger audiences. All parties are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Some names have been changed or omitted per their request or for safety purposes. Listener discretion is advised. My name is Sarah Turney and this is Voices for Justice.
Today, I'm discussing the case of Kyron Horman. From everything I can tell, Kyron's childhood in Portland was pretty idyllic. Of course, it wasn't perfect. His parents were separated, which I have to imagine wasn't always easy for him.
But he'd go to pick-your-own-strawberry farms with his parents, play soccer in the local league, and make snow angels in the snow and the sand while on trips with his family. He seemed to be a bright kid with his whole life ahead of him. But when Kyron was just 7 years old in June 2010, he disappeared from school on one of the busiest days of the year.
Despite there being a ton of witnesses that day, he's been missing for almost 13 years now, and his parents are desperate for answers. This is the case of Kyron Horman.
At just seven, Kyron is a special kid. He's a little timid, but he's confident. He does his own laundry, washes his dishes, and loves helping out around the house. He also seems sure about what he wants his future to look like. He's going to be a detective, just like his stepdad, Tony.
When he was only six, he got to see forensics up close, when a local museum hosted an exhibit in partnership with the show CSI. Basically, museum-goers were given cold cases and a short list of clues. They'd head from room to room, gathering more information about the case, learning about things like fiber analysis, fingerprint testing, and other forensic methods. Then, if they'd done their job correctly, they'd solve the case.
And Kyron loves this so much that he buys a shirt that day, a black t-shirt with the letters CSI on it. Kyron really loves the idea of becoming a detective one day. In his mind, he'll hunt down leads, interrogate suspects, and talk to everyone until he gets the full story. But Kyron's also kind of shy. He doesn't talk much, and he gets anxious anytime there's a big event or an opportunity to speak in front of people. He doesn't like being in the spotlight. The
This is why the science fair on June 4th, 2010 is such a big deal for him. The day prior, he'd presented his project on the red-eyed tree frog to his class. But today, he had to present it to a lot of other students. And their parents. And maybe even their grandparents. So before he heads out for the day, Kyron's dad Kane sits him down for a pep talk.
Kane explains that he's proud of how hard Kyron worked on his science project, and how much he believes in him. Kyron knows this project backwards and forwards, and he's a smart kid. He won't have any problems with his presentation. Kane also promises that when they both get home, they'll play video games together. Then, Kane gives him a kiss on the forehead and sends him on his way.
Now, Kyron usually takes the bus to school, but today, his stepmom, Terri Horman, drives him. Kyron's 19-month-old sister is also in the Ford pickup truck with them. Once they arrive at Skyline Elementary, Terri takes a photo of Kyron in front of his exhibit. In it, he looks really proud. His smile takes up most of his face, so much so that you can barely see his blue eyes peeking out from behind his glasses.
Though he may have had some hesitations going into the day, Kyron seems really happy now. He's with his friends and their parents, and everyone's excited. Not only that, they'll be on summer vacation in less than two weeks, and there's a talent show in the afternoon. I'm sure most of you remember school days like this. They were just kind of the best. Summer's approaching, you're not doing a lot in school that day, it was one of those fun days. Eventually, Terry leaves the school, waving goodbye to Kyron as she departs.
When she gets home that afternoon, she posts the photo of Kyron at the science fair to her Facebook page. That afternoon, Kane leaves work early to meet Kyron at the bus stop, but when the bus arrives, Kyron isn't on it. Kane does pretty much immediately panic. He drives with Terry to the school, hoping that Kyron just missed the bus somehow, but when they arrive, they learn that no one has seen Kyron since that morning at the science fair.
The school explains that when Kyron's teacher took attendance at 10 a.m. that morning, he was marked absent. But nothing came of this because Terry had emailed the day before to let his teacher know that Kyron had a doctor's appointment later in the day and that she'd be taking him out of school for a couple of hours. So when he's marked absent at 10 a.m., there's no call home because it was considered an excused absence.
But here's the thing, Kyron didn't have a doctor's appointment that day. Terry says his appointment was actually for next Friday, not this one, and that she'd been mistaken when she sent that email the day prior. This means that by the time anyone realizes Kyron's missing, he's been unaccounted for for almost seven hours. And as far as anyone can tell, Terry was the last person to see Kyron that morning.
From here, the school calls 911, and authorities arrive on the scene in minutes. Right away, police contact Kyron's mom, Desiree, about the situation. Desiree lives a couple hours away, but she shares partial custody of Kyron, and when she learns that he's missing, she gets in the car for the long drive to Portland.
By the time she arrives, it's after 9.30pm, and no one has seen Kyron in over 12 hours. In that time, Skyline Elementary has become a police command center. Desiree would later talk about how it felt like there was a city in the sky.
Generators, stadium lights, and helicopters shining searchlights from the air illuminate the space. Media trucks and tons of reporters crowd the area. When Desiree finally arrives at Kane's house, it's almost as busy as the school. There's police and media along the driveway, and search teams scouring the land around the home. Inside, the kitchen is crammed with food from neighbors and friends who became aware of what happened. And
And as much as Desiree wants to jump right in and join the search efforts, she can't. She has to talk with police and with Kane and Terry first.
Now, Desiree and Terry have, to put it lightly, a pretty terrible relationship with each other. While Desiree was pregnant with Kyren, Kane had an affair with Terry. I don't know how long their relationship went on, and it really doesn't matter for Kyren's case, but I do know that when Desiree was six months pregnant, she discovered letters from Terry to Kane describing why and how Kane should leave the marriage. Eventually, Desiree left, and Kane went on to marry Terry.
Over the years, the two women figured out a way to co-parent, but it's always been challenging. And as you can imagine, things are very tense. Now, seven years after all that happened, Desiree is standing in Terry's kitchen, trying to make sense of how they got into this awful situation. And she can't stop thinking about Terry being the last person to see Kyron that day. Later that night, Terry hands Desiree a piece of paper with Kyron's photo on it, and a chill runs down Desiree's spine.
It's a picture from the science fair earlier that day, and Kyron is wearing his CSI shirt, the one he got at the museum, the one he loved so much. And looking at this photo with Kyron smiling back at her in that shirt, Desiree is beside herself. But before she has a second to think, Terry chimes in and says it's kind of interesting that he picked that shirt, right? Desiree's stomach churns. It's a moment that would always stick with her.
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At some point on the first night, police approach Kane with a proposal. They want him to wear a wire and record all the conversations in the home. This is a huge step so early on in the investigation, and I don't know much more about it. But I do know that it didn't take much for Kane to get himself wired up. It seems like he's willing to do anything and everything that the police are advising if it means getting Kyron home.
So, Kane wears the wire around the house to record conversations with Terry, Desiree, and Desiree's husband, Tony. But not much comes of this because Terry finds the wire soon after he starts wearing it.
Desiree thinks that Terry is the police's prime suspect. Now, it's worth pointing out that Terry has never been named a person of interest in this case, but she was and as far as we know continues to be closely investigated. Police interrogate Terry a couple times over the weekend, and during that time, her story about that day changes and changes and changes.
First, there are some discrepancies about when she left the school and how. She had originally said that she waved goodbye to Kyron from a stairwell, but when police point out that this would have been impossible given that a wall partially blocked the view, she changes her story. After leaving the school, Terry said that she'd gone to two local grocery stores. Police did find videos of her at the stores, but they were never able to find the item she says she bought that day.
Then at some point in the interviews, Terry adds that she had also visited a Michael's Arts and Crafts store that morning, but she never went in because there was a long line. And when police went to verify this part of her alibi, they learned that virtually no one visited the store that morning, and there were no lines.
There's also this issue about the gym. As Terry walks through her day, she explains that she went to the gym that morning around 11.40am, but police discover that she'd actually clocked into the gym at 12.20 and left 22 minutes later without working out.
She did talk to a couple of people while she was there, though. One woman told police that Terry was complaining about an injury she said she got from dropping a weight on her leg earlier that day. Now, you would think that this would usually cause like a big bruise or some kind of lump. But when Terry raised her yoga pants to show the injury, there was a gash on her knee instead. The woman told police that there's really no reason to think that the cut could have come from working out.
And then there's a full 2 hours and 40 minutes where Terry was unaccounted for that day. She tells police that she may have spent this time driving around, trying to get the baby to sleep. But these errors and discrepancies in Terry's story lead the family to worry that she may have had something to do with Kyron's disappearance. Now, no one kicks her out and there's no huge fight or anything, but I think it's safe to say that everyone at Kane's house is on edge and tensions are running high.
The next day, the family hands out flyers with Kyron's picture. At this point, there's a lot of discussion about what happened to Kyron that day. Many offer up the idea that maybe Kyron had wandered out of the classroom and got lost exploring the woods. But Desiree knows her son. He's a rule follower. He doesn't like being alone. And he's really not one for adventures like that. She doesn't think he would have just wandered off. Desiree is sure someone took him off campus that day.
And later that week, a sheriff pulls Tony and Desiree aside to tell them that another student and adult had reportedly seen Kyron leaving the school with Terry. But he soon backtracks this comment, leaving the two more confused than before.
Now, as the search grows, Kyron's case gets a lot of media attention, from local magazines and newspapers to national cable TV outlets, and the Facebook page for Kyron gains thousands of followers. Then he takes over on blogs, which was a big thing in 2010.
Of course, online sleuths make a lot of comments on the pages. Now, while their commentary isn't always helpful, their presence does help get the case out there and onto people's screens so that everyone knows what Kyron looks like.
Through all of this, the family is under almost constant police supervision, and they're advised to not speak to the media. Meanwhile, investigators interview the family members over and over again, and they all submit to polygraph examination. Terry fails her first test, though it's unclear what that means or how it plays out. We just know that she fails and is very angry about it.
Really, in general, as the investigation takes its course, Terry appears to get agitated. She's reportedly upset that the police aren't telling the family a lot about the investigation. She's not happy that she seems to be a suspect, even though police never actually name her as a person of interest or a suspect. And she's reluctant to hand over her phone or social media profiles to police.
But during this time, the search continues and widens to Sauvie Island. It's an area with thousands of acres of wetlands. Hundreds of volunteers are searching the area daily, and there are multiple detectives assigned to Kyron's case.
All the while, the press is hounding police for more information about the family, and without access to the parents, media outlets begin interviewing friends of the family, who often give contradicting or just misinformation in general. Some say that Desiree and Terry were longtime friends, others say that Desiree was an absent mother, and others say that Kyron actually called Terry mom, not Desiree.
Now, as far as I can find, none of these things are true. And we know that these false statements just don't get the family any closer to finding Kyron. But on June 11th, police finally give the green light for Desiree, Kane, Tony, and Terry to speak to the public. The family gathers at Brooks Hill Church, just across the street from Skyline Elementary. As Desiree enters the church, she starts to feel sick. Like her knees are going to stop working and she'll collapse onto the ground.
And when it's time for the family to speak, her husband Tony steps forward. Police had asked him earlier if he would be willing to speak to the group. Desiree, they said, was too emotional and wouldn't be able to get the point across. It's a heartbreaking image. You can hear the search helicopters as Tony starts speaking.
And he speaks directly to Kyren, quote, We miss you. We love you. We need you. We're doing everything we can to make sure you get back to us as soon as possible. End quote.
After Tony, Cain speaks. He doesn't say much, but he does thank the media for circulating Kyron's photo far and wide, and he asks that they continue to do that. Get Kyron's face out there to every single person in the country. Help us find him. As the press conference wraps up, police ask Terry and Cain to come to the station for another interview. They want Terry to submit to another polygraph because she failed the first one.
Terry does agree to the second test, but it doesn't last very long. I don't know why or how, but at some point, Terry stands up, refuses to continue the test, and walks out. Later that afternoon, both pairs of parents are asked to meet with detectives. It's now been a week since Kyron went missing. During the meeting, police explain that they're now looking at this as a criminal investigation, and that it's unlikely Kyron will return home alive.
This news hits Desiree like a ton of bricks. Her husband Tony is a detective, so on a theoretical level, Desiree understood that sometimes missing children are not found alive, but on a personal level, she can't believe it. I imagine she doesn't want to believe it. I mean, who would? I'm sure in her mind, the idea that Kyren would return home alive was a given.
He'd reappear. Maybe Desiree would get full custody, and then they could put this nightmare behind them. At this news, Desiree begins to sob. The entire event feels so unreal to her. But she tells herself that if police are viewing this as a strictly criminal investigation, that must mean that justice will be served to whoever took Kyron that day.
Now, I don't know how Kane and Terry react to the news, since much of what we know about this case comes from interviews that author Rebecca Morris did with Desiree for her book Boy Missing. But I do know that Kane has been deeply engaged in every step of this investigation. Days pass, and leads build. But nothing seems to get police any closer to a break in the case.
But then, finally, some good news. On June 15th, Clear Channel donates 30 billboards dedicated to Kyron. Ten are in English, ten are in Spanish, and the last ten are in Russian. By June 18th, police seem to have really narrowed down their search. They hand out flyers at Kyron's elementary school with three photos. One of Kyron on the day of the science fair, one of the white truck he'd been driven to school in, and one of Terry Horman.
Police say they want to distribute this flyer in hopes that it will jog the memory of students and families who were at the school that day. As far as I could find, it unfortunately doesn't. But the next day, Terry agrees to a third polygraph. She fails this one too, though it's not clear what happened during the session. As far as we know, this is the last time Terry speaks to police about Kyron's case.
Over the next two weeks, there's little movement. Desiree and Tony go back to their house four hours away from Portland, but they do regularly drive back into the city for meetings with police and to aid in the search effort.
Kane continues to live with Terry, but their relationship is tense. By now, Kane is a really big figure in the investigation. He's basically the police's way into Terry. Authorities hope that Terry might confide in Kane if she did something, and he'll be able to relay that information to them.
Then, on June 27th, Kane, Desiree, and Tony are called into a meeting with detectives. There's been a break in the case that's apparently so serious that Desiree and Tony need to drive to Portland right away. They're all instructed to meet with authorities at a local hotel, and no one is allowed to enter Kane's home until they talk with police. Once the group gets to the hotel, authorities finally share the news.
While looking through Terry's email, they learn that she offered a landscaper a large sum of money to kill Kane. In other words, she hired a hitman. Now, this happened just weeks before Kyron went missing, and this landscaper apparently wasn't the only person Terry had approached about killing Kane. She'd actually reached out to another hitman about five months before that, in December 2009.
In this meeting, the family also learns that, in the weeks leading up to Kyron's disappearance, Terry had been emailing a friend about how much she disliked her stepson. And then, police confirm a statement that they'd previously backtracked. They now have four witnesses who claim they saw Kyron leaving his school with Terry the day he disappeared.
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Just go to the App Store or Google Play Store and download the free Ibotta app to start earning cash back and use code CRIME. That's I-B-O-T-T-A in the Google Play Store or App Store. And use code CRIME. After Kane hears this news from police, he does not hesitate. He rushes back to pack up his stuff and take the child he shares with Terry out of the home. At this point, he seems convinced that Terry is a danger not only to him, but their baby as well.
Now, for the record, Terry denies all the allegations that Kane and police make that day. She says that the landscaper had lied to police because he wanted payback for Terry refusing to have sex with him earlier that year. As far as I could find, that claim has not been backed up by any evidence or statements. But she sticks to the story. After Kane moves out, Terry calls his behavior ridiculous.
These words don't do much to sway Cain, though. Soon after, he files for divorce, gets full custody of their child, and a judge prohibits Terry from visiting either of them.
Almost immediately after Kane moves out, one of Terri's friends, Dee Dee Spicer, moves in. Dee Dee actually looks a lot like Terri. She's got red curly hair, and she loves fitness too. In 2009, she lost her job and had been living on unemployment, working random jobs that she could find here and there. By the summer of 2010, when Kyron disappeared, Dee Dee's working on a lavender farm near Kane's home.
When Kane was asked for a list of Terry's friends to interview and talk with, Dee Dee was on it. So when she moves in with Terry after Kane and his daughter left, police take notice. When authorities look closely at Dee Dee's alibi, they note that there are two hours on June 4th where she had been unaccounted for. In fact, Dee Dee's co-workers noticed her absence that day because it was so out of the ordinary.
Apparently the group usually ate lunch together on the farm, but Dee Dee left abruptly at 11.30 and didn't join them for the meal. It's not at all clear where she went, but her car was left at the farm, and she returned about 90 minutes later.
Now, to be fair, this farm is hundreds of acres, so it is entirely possible that Dee Dee just wanted some time to herself that day. But that's apparently not what police think, because a couple weeks later, they release a new flyer. On this one, there's a photo of Kyron, a photo of the truck, a couple photos of Terry, and three photos of Dee Dee. But again, not much comes of it. Weeks pass, then months.
Desiree and Kane appear on Good Morning America, on the Today Show, and even on Oprah. By now, they'd really gotten used to these kinds of appearances. They would talk about the day Kyron went missing, what kind of kid he is, what foods he likes, and then sometimes Desiree would turn to the camera and make a direct plea to Terry, begging her to cooperate with investigators. These appearances do help keep Kyron's name in the media, which in turn keeps the search going.
After six months, a sheriff gives a progress report to the Oregonian, the local paper. In it, he admits that he's losing confidence in the investigation. He shares that over the last six months, they've conducted 646 searches, collected over 4,000 tips, 40 witnesses appeared before the grand jury, and to date, the investigation had cost $1.4 million.
Kyron's disappearance has become the most expensive search effort in Oregon's history, and yet Kyron was still missing.
This, in turn, leads to commentary in the local community about how much the county, state, and federal authorities should be spending on one case. In an op-ed published earlier that year, a guest columnist for The Oregonian wrote, Later, when asked about this op-ed, Desiree simply said, "...it costs what it costs."
A couple months later, in early 2011, the county government makes the hard decision to scale back the investigation to just one detective. But around the same time, the FBI adds six agents to the investigation.
As the first anniversary of Kyron's disappearance approaches, media interest in his story picks up again. New billboards for Kyron go up around town. On Saturday, June 4th, 2011, Kane leads a team of volunteers as they work together to beautify the ground outside of Skyline Elementary. It's the same area where a memory wall had been set up for Kyron just days after he disappeared.
The effort is beautiful, but it's also incredibly difficult. There are reporters and curious onlookers there, hungry for updates in a case that has none. Desiree just couldn't bring herself to be in front of cameras and other people that day, so she grieved the anniversary with her husband privately.
But by the second anniversary of his disappearance, Desiree's done being quiet. She gathers a group in front of the Oregon Capitol, and with cameras all around, she speaks to the press. Not a day goes by that I don't think of him, or I don't think of anything else that I can do to bring him home. I pray that he will come home to me. I wait for the phone call every day to tell me that he's coming home. I hope that I am wrong.
but I fear that he is gone forever. I believe that Terry Horman knows where Kyron is. I believe that Terry Horman is responsible for where my son is. The time has come for Terry to take responsibility for what she has done. It's a strong statement, and Desiree's about to announce something huge.
It's been two years now, and although I believe that eventually the criminal justice system will take action against Terry, I have made the decision at this time to bring a lawsuit against her. In this lawsuit, I'm asking the court to compel Terry to tell me where Kyron is. I'm also asking for money damages. I do not intend to keep anything that is awarded from this case. Any money that I recover,
will be dedicated and used for families and parents of other missing children. I don't want Terry's money. I want Terry to face justice. Starting a civil lawsuit against someone during an ongoing criminal investigation is a complicated decision, and not one that Desiree came to lightly. Desiree's hope is that the suit would force Terry to be deposed and provide answers to questions they've been asking since day one.
But later that summer, the Attorney General rules that they wouldn't be allowed to depose Terry. It's a blow to the case, but it doesn't stop Desiree from taking the suit to court. In October of that year, Dee Dee Spicer takes the stand for over an hour. She talks openly about her background, her various jobs, and her life in Portland. But when the conversation turns to Terry, Dee Dee pleads the 5th.
Had she talked to Terry recently? Dee Dee pleads the fifth. Was she aware that Kyron Horman had disappeared? Even such a simple question is answered by pleading the fifth. In total, she pleads the fifth 142 times during the testimony.
Now, I want to be crystal clear. Dee Dee is totally within her rights to do this. But for Desiree, Dee Dee's answers are cruel. Her son has been missing for over two years now. And Desiree believes that Dee Dee might have information that can lead to justice. And yet, she's failing to answer any of the relevant questions. It's like a punch to the gut. When Desiree introduced the suit, she was excited about all the possibilities that it could bring to the case.
According to her, police had offered up the criminal investigation file if the civil suit got to a point where that was necessary. If that happened, it could be huge. But when the time comes, law enforcement sit Desiree and her lawyer down for a meeting. In that conversation, authorities explain that because it's an ongoing investigation, they can't just hand over the file. Desiree's lawyer could force their hand and take them to court to share the file, but the local police department is wary of this.
They tell Desiree that doing so would change everything about how law enforcement interacts with families of missing children. They say it could have a long-lasting impact on investigations after this one, and might cause police to keep families out of the loop during a missing persons case.
I'm not sure how true this is. I can say that in my time in true crime, I've heard so many reasons for departments not wanting to hand over files to families. But the conversation causes Desiree to step back and drop the civil suit. On the day she announces the decision, Desiree vows that the person who led to Kyron's disappearance will be brought to justice sooner or later. And though she can't pursue justice through the civil courts, she's undeterred.
I just want to take a moment to acknowledge Desiree's journey in all of this. These things are incredibly difficult. Putting so much time and effort into something you believe will finally bring you answers about your missing loved one, just to have it not work out is truly devastating.
but she persists. Over the next few years, Desiree and Kane appear on multiple TV shows for interviews. In an episode on America's Most Wanted, one detective discusses how many events, rallies, and postering initiatives Kane has hosted to try to keep Kyron's name in the media. He said that Kane's been at some kind of event every weekend since Kyron disappeared.
And that's still the case. Kane and Desiree independently host search parties, awareness events, and contribute to foundations for families of other missing people. One of the Facebook pages run by a family member posts just about every day with photos, thoughts, and ideas about Kyron and the case.
Through all of this, Desiree and Kane maintain their belief that Terry is tied to the case somehow. It's kind of impossible for either of them to talk about Kyron's disappearance without bringing up Terry. In 2014, the negative press about Terry appears to reach a tipping point. In August of that year, Terry appears in court with a request to change her name to Claire Sullivan.
At the hearing, four witnesses take the stand against Terry's proposed name change. One of them talks about how they believe Terry wants to change her name so that she can distance herself from Kyron's case. Now this perhaps is enough to move the judge, because in the end, he decides to not grant Terry the name change. He says that until Kyron's case has been resolved, it's just not in the public's best interest for Terry to change her name.
For those who think Terry may have had a role to play in Karen's disappearance, this minor win is a big victory. It means she can't just slip by unnoticed.
Now, every couple years, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children releases a new age-progressed photo of Kyren. While these pictures bring new hope to the case, they can also present new, complicated feelings. Here's Desiree again. It's extremely hard. Every age progression that we do is rough because you see the life that you're missing out on. You see your child. It's a sad fact.
Even though these photos are advancing the case, they're also a painful reminder of how much time has passed. But with that pain comes hope, which brings me right to our call to action. Please circulate the age-progressed photo of Kyron. Let's keep the pressure on his case. Also, if you live or grew up in the Pacific Northwest, Kyron's family asks that you try to remember June 4th, 2010.
And when I think about that day and the people in our community, I keep wanting to reach out to them and just get them to think through that day again and not just look for things that stand out that were not obvious, but think about the obvious. Think about what you did that was just normal, plain, normal, plain faces that you would normally see there and retrace some steps. Look through the things that they have. If they have photos or even paperwork from that day, come bring it in. Come
Come turn it in. There could be something in the background of a photo. There could be something on a document that has a timeline or a date stamp on it that could help. As a reminder, Kyron Horman went missing on June 4th, 2010 in Portland, Oregon. As of recording this episode, he would now be 20 years old. He has light brown hair, blue eyes, and likely wears glasses.
If you have any information about Kyron's disappearance, please contact the Multnomah County Sheriff's Department at 503-988-0560. If you want to learn more about Kyron's case because this really just scratches the surface, I highly recommend reading the book Boy Missing by Rebecca Morris. It was incredibly helpful in creating this episode.
But as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time. Voices for Justice is hosted and produced by me, Sarah Turney, and is a Voices for Justice media original. This episode contains writing and research by Amber Von Chasson, edited by Kate Gallagher. If you love what we do here, please don't forget to follow, rate, and review the show in your podcast player.
It's an easy and free way to help us and help more people find these cases in need of justice. You can also support what we do here on Patreon at patreon.com slash voices for justice. And for even more content, check out my other podcast, Disappearances, only on Spotify.
Welcome to the Secret After Show. Now, I've wanted to cover Kyron's case for a very long time. I mean, I read Rebecca's book, I think about two years ago, almost when I started covering other cases on this podcast. I mean, Kyron has been on my list for a long time. And I've been
And I really struggled between do I do a super, super deep dive or do I try to keep it a little more summarized? And honestly, it's a hard decision to make. You know, you run the risk when you do these deep dives of kind of losing people along the way. Honestly, like Kyron's case is one of those cases that I think could be an entire podcast series, right?
But with the help of my amazing, incredible writers and editors, which I'm so grateful to have, I think we were able to boil it down pretty well. Now, what I wanted to talk to you guys about here in this after show was something that was really hard for me to keep commentary out of the episode about. And you might have guessed it. That is the discussion about, you know, the cost of an investigation. How much should these agencies spend on one case?
And I have to say, I'm not sure I can look at it very fairly given my situation. I really do think that Desiree's answer was kind of perfect. It cost what it cost. And that might sound arrogant to some people.
That, wow, you think that, you know, your son deserves $1.4 million to be searched for when all these other cases don't get it. And that's a fair fight. That's a totally fair argument. There are so many cases that don't get the same resources as other cases, and that's a very important issue. What's hard for me is if that's your kid, your loved one, you might see it differently. Like, what kind of costs can you...
I mean, in this case, really, like, what cost can you put on a life? What cost do you put on returning a child to their home if they're being sex trafficked or human trafficked in general? What is the price of a resolution? How much should we spend on closure, for lack of a better term, or answers? Now, I don't have the answers for you. I think if...
someone told me in the midst of my sister's investigation that they were spending too much money, I might have lost my mind, to be totally honest. Because again, I can't look at these things perhaps as fairly as somebody more removed from situations like this. So I feel like Philip DeFranco, if anybody watches that out here. But I do, I want to throw it back to you guys. I would love to continue this discussion with you on social media. If you guys join me here for these secret after show moments, I
You know I don't love putting it in the main episode, but I would love to have that discussion with you on social. Let's talk about it. What do you think? I feel like because of my personal experience, perhaps I'm not seeing it clearly. So do you think that there should be a cap on these investigations? Should there be a budget for something like a missing child? Should they only hit, you know, $500,000 or a million dollars? What do those numbers look like? Should those numbers be in place? I would love to hear from you.
But that's really all I have for you this week. So as always, thank you for tolerating me. I love you, and I'll talk to you next time.