Ep 986 | Kamala’s Ugly Response to Jesus, Phil Stops By & Does Jesus Care How We Vote?
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I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. We are joined by one of our favorite Unashamed contributors, one Jersey Joe Conjimi, my Jersey-in-law. And I told Jersey, I was like, Jersey, he said, man, this seat feels so comfortable. I said, now look, you're probably about to say some of the most prolific

profound things you've ever said just because you're sitting in that chair. So just if it hits you, Joe, just let us have it. He's in your chair. I was thinking more along the lines as it's pre-broken, suspension's kind of blown out a little bit. That's really where I was going. I've sunk every chair in the room. You're going to fit right in, Jerry. Yeah.

So if you're Jersey's been on the podcast before and really, I mean, your whole life is a testimony to what we do and the power of Jesus. So you came to Jesus via New Jersey. Yeah. And and now even while Phil's been down, you've been teaching his class, which there's something to be said about hearing the gospel and

obeying the gospel and then the guy who where you heard the gospel you're now sharing the same exact message you're like because you can look at the audience and say i was literally sitting where you were yeah and i've made that comment you know you asked me last week when we were in service you said how'd the how the class go and i said you know um i feel the holy spirit in me and i feel it even stronger when i'm sitting up there speaking

And the words just come to me. And it's easy to preach something you believe and to talk about something that you believe.

You know, so that's that's what makes the whole thing awesome to me. While I'm very upset that I look to my right or my left, depending on where he sits, sometimes he's on my right, sometimes on my left. But, you know, he's my partner and I miss him because he's not, you know, we bounce things off of each other. It's just this relationship that him and I have developed over the past five years is just amazing.

Yeah. But, uh, well, Paul had a Timothy in his life and it just shows I've been doing a lot of study on maturity. Cause we're, I'm not sure we're ready to go to that section of Colossians. I think we left off, uh, 15 through 20. Yeah. We we've been kind of just working our way through that too. Yeah. But I had something happen yesterday. Cause I like to share my treasure hunting experiences. So we got all fired up and was going, you know, we had a new place we were going to go.

And when we got there, they had rowed it up. So for you farmers out there. So it was perfect once they had harvested the crops. But then they row it up to get ready for the next planting, which may be in the spring. But when they do that, you have to wait for a rain because the rows are really high and it's very difficult walking. And there's something about the soil not being compacted that our machines don't

It doesn't hit the connected metal. You don't get good signals. It's very difficult. So it's like we went out there for an hour and then I looked up and everybody was back at the truck. There was like five of us. And because, I mean, my legs were throbbing. It's just huge. Every time you take a step, it's just a huge step.

So I didn't think we found much or whatever, and I was a little disappointed. Well, I got home because one of the things I found, it was like real banging noise on my machine, and it was shallow. And it kind of looked like a button, but it was solid black, which made me think, well, it's not an old button. And it was such a loud signal because it was real heavy. And it just didn't register as something awesome.

And so when I took a brush and started trying to clean it in a toothpick and I put a little petroleum jelly on it because I realized this black was gunk. And, you know, that happens a lot when you find stuff out in the fields due to the fertilizer and all.

And so the next day I still just looked like a black, but now I was thinking it was a button. I thought this is a button, but it, you know, who knows? It's just, why is it black? All these questions were going, going off in my head. And so the next day I got my toothpick out after I'd done the, the gel on it and all. And, and that gunk started coming off. And all of a sudden I was like, I think there's an emblem on this thing. And it, it, I was starting to get excited.

And when I got to the back, I could see writing. And so I'll submit this picture for you to see. Turns out, well, I took a picture of it once I could see what it is. And the emblem was an eagle. And I sent it to my expert, old Dan, who's a history professor. And he's like one of the world's greatest treasure hunters. And he knows what everything is just when you look at him. He's like a walking encyclopedia.

And his first line was, dude, which is always means that's nice. And it turned out to be an 1820s to 1840s Eagle letter A button. One piece is what it's called. And he was just like quite the fine. And and you say, why am I bringing this up? Because immediately I thought about Colossians two because talking about maturity.

Because here I was, you know, the Bible relates this joy in heaven and on earth when something lost is found. Jesus used many parables about treasures. And even to say in Luke 15 that heaven and earth rejoices, you know, when something was dead, it's now alive, it's lost, it's found. And so I thought about this, Colossians 2.

In verse two, where it says, my purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart, which we talked about on a previous podcast about that desire center of your, you know, of the human experience where, I mean, he gets in there and through the growth process, you kind of go and you go from not being the old self to the new self to actually having, like you said, in Galatians four, Christ formed in you.

But then it says, being united, encouraged in heart, united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, nor they may know the mystery of God, namely Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. But I just thought about that process. I mean, the growth process. It's like God finds us through the gospel and it's bumpy.

Early on, you know, and it's just like I thought that that was just a meaningless piece of metal. But as it as we worked and as we began the cleaning process, it's like and so viewing us as treasure that God finds and knowing we have the greatest treasure in Earth, this this kind of reciprocal relationship we have of Christ in us and us in Christ.

It was both ways. Yeah, I just thought it was a beautiful picture, which is why, look, it is the main reason I treasure hunt. It just reminds me of spiritual things in that process. Well, you've mentioned that verse in Colossians 2, that word pops up over and over again. And by the way, it's all throughout the book of Ephesians as well. But the mystery, when you referenced it there, it said the mystery of

the knowledge of God's mystery, which is Christ, and then the further clarification, in whom are hidden all treasures of wisdom and knowledge. And right before that, he mentions the word mystery as well. And he says it a little different way, but it's kind of the same thing. He said the mystery, this is in 126, the mystery hidden for ages and generations, but is now revealed to his saints.

To them, God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of his mystery. So you see the same language of riches and treasures, which is Christ in you. And that's the whole thing that's difficult for us to get, I think. And when we get into this in just a moment here, when we get into the text and you start to see what.

gets in the way of that, I think what is at the core of that, of getting in the way of us seeing that the actual riches and the treasures are Christ in us, and then, by the way, us in Christ as well, to your point, it's the illusion that somehow in our own sovereignty,

or autonomy or our own control and our own ability to contain it, however you want to say this, that we think that somehow we can sustain our own existence. And we all think that on some level. And I think that's when that happens, that we divert from Christ and our dependence on Him, and then we start trying to conjure up other things because that's what's happening in

this letter here is he's addressing people who are

are moving away from, from Christ being the center point where all things are rooted into and then worshiping and serving these other things that are of maybe of him, but they're not him. Even like angels, like angels are not a bad thing, right? I mean, they, they serve God. Um, but when you worship the angels, that is a bad thing because you're worshiping something that, that, that Christ,

that Christ gave us, instead of him who gave us the angels. And I think that's the difficult thing for us as humans to grapple with is that we're not ultimately gonna sustain our own reality. We have to go to the anchor. - One of the things I took out of that from especially comparing it to treasure and riches

That's the difference in spiritual treasure and riches versus just physical stuff. Because spiritually, it was never meant to be hoarded and kept hidden. It was always meant to be shared with other people. And Zach, it made me think about you guys going through the storm up there. Immediately, people you knew, cared about you, started sending in supplies and goods. But it wasn't for you to hoard things.

and sell on a black, make a black market or hoard for yourself. It was to be shared with other people. And this exact same thing. And I think about it in Jason's case, Jason, the reason you got into treasure hunting was because you wanted to do, to further develop a relationship with Murray, who then basically mentored you into that situation, which takes us back to where we started with Joe and dad. I mean, the idea is, is that this is a gift, spiritual gift from God, uh,

That's given to us to then be shared with other people and to mentor and to bless and to put out there. And so I just love the actual flow of the idea, Zach, of what you were just talking about, that so much is for us, but it's for us then to give away and to expose and define. You know, it's funny about that. I just told one of our pastors this and my brother, we were having a conversation about this very subject. And I was thinking that this is a great tangible example of this. When.

When this storm hit western North Carolina, one of the things that happened is it wiped out, at least in our area, I think all areas, but in our area, it wiped out the entire infrastructure of how we get water. So that's like gone. I mean like 20 miles of pipe no longer exists. The roads that the pipe was buried under no longer exist.

So one of the big deals has been how do we get water? And we still we have water now, but you can't drink the water anywhere around here. Like you can't drink water, which you just don't when you think about like the water we have is only for flushing toilets. And I don't even bathe in the water. And so we have no water to bathe in. We have no water. And at the beginning, we had no water, period. We didn't have water to flush toilets or anything. But you know what happened?

When I tell you the amount of bottled water that has been shipped into this area from God's people, it is overwhelming. So we ended up, like, you kind of feel weird at first, but you end up bathing in bottled water, which is just kind of hilarious. Like, we have no water, but yet we have an abundance of water to the point that we're actually taking showers now and pouring bottled waters over our head and using the bottled water to bathe with. And I was thinking, you know, it's so funny, the treasure...

Of that, yes. Would I prefer running hot water over pouring bottled water into a pot and getting it hot to bathe in? Yes, I would prefer that on the surface. But let me tell you something. Every time that I've drank coffee since this happened, every time that I've taken a bath or shower, every time that I've washed dishes, when I pour those bottled waters in,

Into that pot. I'm overwhelmed with gratefulness of God's people.

And that's a treasure that you can't like that. That's a treasure that's like spiritually discerned. And to some, you know, it smells, it may not to the second Corinthians passage. It may not smell the same to them, but to me, and it smells like life. And I think that's what the, the Bible says, Paul says that the unnatural minds can't understand the things of the spirit. I think that when we talk about this mystery here, that's in Christ where all these treasures are laid up,

A natural mind is not going to be able to discern that. That is only a mind that has been transformed by the Holy Spirit and that is being transformed by the Holy Spirit that we actually begin to see where real value and real joy and real peace and patience and where the real treasures are at. And they're found only in Christ. And that's how we can share them with each other.

So, Jace, in all of your treasure hunting travels that you do, do you ever find yourself sometimes out of cell phone coverage? Well, either I forget to bring my phone because I'm distracted in a good way, or when I do have it, it doesn't work because I'm going to really remote places. It's frustrating. Well, our good friends at Patriot Mobile, who's one of our longtime sponsors of the podcast, are going to be talking to us about how to get your cell phone out of your pocket.

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Join us, which to America's only Christian conservative mobile provider, Patriot Mobile, by going to PatriotMobile.com slash Phil, or you can call them at 972-PATRIOT for your free month of service today. Well, what I thought we could do, so we read 15 through 19, which you read it and it's so big and it's so powerful, it tends to just run over your head.

But I think if you look at it from, okay, there's a creation that Jesus was a part of, and then there's a new creation that Jesus is the center of. Maybe that's a better way to say it. There's a creation Jesus is the center of, and there's a new creation that Jesus is the center of, because he basically says that. He is the image of the invisible God. He's the firstborn over all creation.

for by him all things were created things in heaven and on earth visible and invisible whether thrones powers rulers authorities all things were created by him and for him

He is before all things and in him, all things hold together, which is hard to wrap your head around. Which is that idea of not only a creative force, but a sustaining force, which when you think about it, both are just as important in what we see. And by the way, this differentiates him right off the bat. We talked about this idea that part of the falsehood that they were facing was that somehow the divine is in us and wasn't in Christ.

In other words, we're all little gods, but we can't create anything. The first law of thermodynamics, we can't create matter. Energy can't be created. Or destroyed even. Or destroyed. We can't create or destroy. Or on the flip side, no other gods knows you because he became a human. Yeah. So he knows us. Right. Just think about how powerful that is when you run that forward.

Well, you know, that Hebrews 4 comes to mind. He's able to sympathize with our weaknesses. He was tempted in every way, just as we are. Because he incarnated. He incarnated. So I think people have difficulty with this, and maybe you want to, I don't know how deep we want to get, because you look and you see evil present in the world. It seems chaotic. And they're like, well, how is he holding this together? I mean, so it's like there's a lot about creation that,

becomes underappreciated because if you just take out the evil decisions that people make there's a beauty here that leads you to the presence of god i mean just from plants and the sun i mean today on the way down here and it is dove season in that cut over i'm driving along make a couple of curves you know i'm listening to christian music everything's going good

And 40 doves just floated in front of my truck and lit in that cutover, which my instinct was to immediately stop.

But I was coming to podcasts. So you had to keep going. No, okay, I'll keep going. But then I actually even thought, because they look so majestic and they're so tasty, but I thought, you know, when Jesus was baptized, it said the Holy Spirit descended on him like a dove. And I just, in that moment, kind of had a moment there. I was like, this is just the beauty of it. Which is why people worship the creation. Yeah.

Because they see that in it, and it's like you see that there's something divine in the creation. And there is, because it's made by the divine. But that's all the things that we worship.

What happens is we see that and we see the divine quality in it and how it screams the glory of God and how it reveals the way that Paul says it in Romans 1 is that the creation actually reveals God. So what may be known about God, he says it's actually made plain to them. Why? Because God has made it plain to them by what has been made. So what's been made actually reveals God.

And when we get off, it's when we say we just forget what it's revealing. We worship for the sake of salvation. It's one of the two revelations, no doubt. You have the word being the revelation, but you also have what he made is a revelation for us to look and see. The perfect illustration for this is in my treasure hunting career, I saw both of these things happen because Murray mentored me. But look, it took me two months before I found anything of value.

So it's just like any kind of growth process. But you know how I justified it? All the stuff that I was taking out of the earth that was junk, I thought, well, I'm cleaning up God's beautiful creation. That's right. I had to start at that. I was basically the equivalent of a guy walking down the street who had been incarcerated, picking up trash, learning a lesson that I either had to do better, but in the process, I am making the earth more beautiful.

And then when I finally found something of value, I experienced the new creation. Right. And I thought about that. I thought this is that passage on Jesus holding things together despite all the chaos. And it also explains why that God is not oblivious to the suffering and the pain and the evil that's going on in our world. He actually entered it and he's holding it together.

through his redemption process. Those two themes are real evident here as I read the rest of it, because then it says, and he is the head of the body, the church. He's the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, which there's your hope no matter what happens. I mean, he came back from the dead, which is the exclamation point to the pain and suffering and chaos and death that happens here.

And so he just took all that away. It's like the old Crowder song. We just had Crowder on the grave robber. Grave robber. Which is a great song. None of these things, though, what's interesting about the text here is that none of these things, he's not saying these are bad. If you notice what he says is, he says, don't let anyone pass judgment on you.

in question of food, drink, or with regard to a festival, which I think your translation says a religious festival or a new moon. Well, that's in chapter two, yeah. In chapter two, you mean? Yeah, I'm in chapter two. But these things, though, that he's getting into, these things are not bad. Just like the creation itself, it's not bad. It's good. It's when you don't see them,

for what they're meant for, which is a revelation of him. And even like in our own, when you talk about creation earlier, like we create, we do create, we just don't create like God creates. God creates out of nothing, but we can take the stuff that he creates. And then, because we're, because we are like God, right? So we could, we create the stuff out of the stuff that he's made. But it's, I think it's like this, there's like this, almost like a view of like a, it's a prism that we're looking through and,

And he's trying to say that you have to look through this. These are prisms that you're looking through all these things, but they should take you right to the cornerstone. They should take you. Well, because you're made in the image of God, or as some scholars say, we're image bearers. The problem comes in, which is why when he gets to verse 21, it's like, look at all this big stuff. And then you can actually see it in his writing. He's like, and here you are.

You were once alienated. You were created. Everything was done for him and by him, but you chose not to bear that image. And you say, why? Because you were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. And yet this, but which is awesome. But now, now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death.

To present you wholly in his sight, which I love that little phrase, physical body, because it ties in with God becoming human.

Yeah. They'll understand the created beings that he made. And this is how you're supposed to do it. And he went through the same process. I mean, you remember when it says when he was a kid and his parents were looking for him and that next verse is he grew in wisdom and stature. I mean, he went through the same human growth process. Which is kind of hard to imagine that because it's like you, and I have to struggle with that for years, but I think that it's key that,

One thing Bill Smith did that was so helpful for me, one of our mentors that's gone on to be with the Lord, he's the one that brought Phil to Christ in the movie. He saw this, but he was very adamant, at least in teaching me about the triune God, of distinguishing the Son of God from Jesus in the sense that if I would try to say, we asked him a question one time about the Jesus, was Jesus in the Old Testament? And he's like, no.

And we would show verses that would support this. He said that was the Son of God. He said you've got to keep in mind, Jesus is the incarnation of God.

of the Son of God. Jesus is the Son of God taking on human flesh. And I think that's a good distinction to make because when you think about why did Jesus grow in stature, why was he limited in knowledge? Because he was limited, right? Is it Mark 11 or Mark 13 where he says, I don't even know

When these things are going to happen, only my father knows this. So it's a complex thing. But Jesus, when he's in his incarnated state, he did take on flesh. He wasn't omnipresent. He was in a human body. He has another nature. His divine nature, that's a different story. But in his human nature,

He took on these things. He grew. And it matters because this is what, as Jace mentioned, this is what allows him to connect with us and probably more importantly, allows us to connect with him. Well, it goes back to the Hebrews, too. He was made like his brothers in every way, which means he had to become one of us.

They write a lot of songs about the heart, but I don't recall too many songs about the liver. No, and it's unfortunate because it's an underappreciated aspect of your vital organs. So if I was going to put myself into that situation, I'm kind of the liver of the family.

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But he became the blueprint and prototype for humans, the ultimate of what can be accomplished. Yeah. I love the way you put that, Jace, is the creation now the recreation, because that's exactly what it is. It's that reconciliation. You know, there was something you had said earlier when we started talking, you talked a little bit about evil, right? And it

It reminded me of an article that I had to look up here. By the way, my Bible is completely electronic here. So that's how I. That's crazy. Well, yeah, I got tired of writing and then trying to sift through the fine things. So now I. Let me ask you before you read this, let me just ask you a personal question. How do you turn the page?

Oh, with a finger swipe. So for you listening, he did a motion that only people who are into electronic... Or for Phil, beep-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop. Yeah, Dad does the 60s computer sound. Beep-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-

why did God create evil, right? And when I saw that, that was the title of the article. And I looked at it and I said, why did God create evil, right? So then the professor basically said, if God created everything, then God created evil since it exists. And according to the principle that our deeds define ourselves, then God is evil. And I scratched my head there a little bit. But what was interesting here is the student was a believer.

And the student said, professor, can I ask you a question? Right. And the professor looks at him and he says, have you ever been cold? Professor says, yeah, I've been cold. And he said, cold doesn't exist. And he says, the scientific definition of cold is the absence of heat. Yeah. And the professor looks at him and scratches his head and goes, okay. So then he went, he went a little further and he said,

Do you believe in darkness? And he says, well, of course I believe in darkness. It gets dark at night. He says, well, there's no such thing as darkness. Darkness is the absence of light. Yeah. And he said, if you look at that, do you believe in evil? And the professor says, sure I do. It's everywhere. There's no such thing as evil. Evil is the absence of God.

And that stuck with me, and I thought that was interesting. So I actually documented all that, and I talk about it sometimes on Sundays. Did the professor end up just ripping his pages? The professor got very frustrated and acted the way they generally do and changed the subject. But going back to it, we talked about in the beginning here, he's the image of the invisible God. And one of the things that stuck with me on that one when I looked at that one—

Who is the image of the invisible God? What does that mean, the invisible God versus, you know, Jesus coming to his, you know, God's only son, Jesus becoming flesh, dying on a cross for us, right? What does this invisible God mean? So I had to look all the way back to Exodus 33, 20. When Moses asked to see God's glory, God replied, you cannot see my face from any man's

For many men may not see me and live. And I thought about that, right? And I thought, okay, so when I give these explanations and I'm starting to look at this and people are asking these questions, how do I describe something like that? So then I thought about it, right?

And it basically means that seeing God would be like grabbing a fully energized power line on the ground. Yeah. You know, you're not designed to be able to survive doing something like that. Yeah. I just thought that was interesting. No, I think it's important. Well, that makes the Colossians passage all the more important because...

What he does then is this. He also says that the father says he will not share his glory with anyone ever, except for the son. But then the son shares that glory with us. And you read 2 Corinthians 3, because Moses saw, you know, Moses met with God on the mountain. And when he left, he was radiating. His glory was glowing. And I love this.

because it really sums up the whole thing of Colossians 2, meaning Colossians T-O-O, not T-W-O. But it sums it up. Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, not like Moses, who had put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. But their minds were hardened for to this day, when they read the old covenant, the same veil remains unlifted.

Because only through Christ is it taken away. Yes, to this day, whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their hearts. But, this is the but, but when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Well, here's why. Because now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled faces, behold God.

the glory of the Lord. So now we can see God. Now we can see him through Jesus by the spirit. And we're being transformed to Jace's point earlier in the last podcast about maturity. Now we are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another for this comes from the Lord who is spirit. That's how you explain Jace, what you were talking about in the previous podcast about Phil and,

and his own transformation and how we see the compassion that he has now, that if you would have came to us today,

30 years ago, it said, this is what your dad or your uncle is going to look like. We would have been like, probably not, but he's making progress. But we wouldn't have said that. But he has changed over a 30 year process because he's gone from one degree of glory to another because God now has made his home with people. Phil is a living stone built on the cornerstone of the temple, which is Jesus himself.

being built up and growing together into this expression and this presence, this place where God lives and dwells. I think that's good. That's real good. Well, I even think all the nuggets that are in here, you know, we didn't talk about him where it said he was, he created everything.

things in heaven and earth, visible and invisible. And then he brings up this thrones or powers or rulers or authorities. And I mean, we're in this election cycle this year and everybody, you know, has gone crazy over. I hadn't heard anything about it. There's a lot in the Bible about, you know, that God instituted these organizations. You know, it's like, it's the same point that we made about evil. Cause you're like, well, look at all this,

These corrupt politicians and all. But when you think about, well, what if we didn't have government? I mean, because they provide, you know, a sense of safety and prosperity and prosperity.

is what they're supposed to. Because if you don't have these kind of principles and justice, I mean, that's what they're for, designed by God. And you think, well, what if you didn't have that? And I just think it's powerful to see him holding it all together. And you're like, well, what about, you know, we're all humans. We all mess up.

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blazeelection.com slash Robertson. Check them out. Then you have the new creation comes to form in that. And usually, you know, we're not really actively involved in politics. And we've talked about it numerous times. We kind of try to buy ourselves some time with voting for the most

godly person that's going to allow us to have the freedom to share Jesus and all. But I said all that to say, but I was miffed when somebody said one of the politicians who's running for president, and you can figure out which one pretty easily,

But she was at a rally. Oh, you already gave it away. You said she. So it's either Jill Stein or. I've already early voted. And trust me, when I say one of the people running, I had no idea that there was a list that I had to scroll through to find who I wanted to vote for. I mean, there's a lot of people running for president, by the way, if you haven't voted.

So, but she was talking about abortion and we're obviously, you know, pro-life and for, because we believe everybody's made in the image of God. And so, and it's kind of goes back to Jesus even set this up when they tried to trap him in the political day of his culture, when they were, they brought up that question, you know, is it right to pay this imperial tax? Which has seemed like an unanswerable question because all the Jews hated that tax.

And if he says, you know, no, well then they're gonna seek the Roman authority on him. So they had him and he's like, why don't you do this? Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's. And I think in that conversation,

He's actually even hinting to this because later on he would say the only reason you have authority when he was before Pilate is God has given you this authority. And it's like, oh, it's all making sense. But I said all that to say in this rally, there was a heckler there when she was talking about abortion said,

"Jesus is Lord." And then somebody else said, "Christ is King." And then a woman said, "Jesus loves you." Now at first I didn't give it any evidence because the one that all the news publications were showing, you couldn't hear it clearly. And they were like, "No," 'cause they started backing away from that 'cause they were like, "This is not good for them politically." But somebody who was in the audience on their phone

is the one I watched because I was saying, I was trying to validate the story. And it was amazing. You can hear those three things loud and clear. And then two seconds later, there was this famous statement now, which is you're at the wrong rally. That's right. And I thought, look, ultimately we're serving the King of Kings who's holding all this together. And, you know, we have a job. I mean, we're kind of globalists when it comes to Christianity because we

We may have brothers in another country that are part of the same kingdom and heavenly family and, you know, have differences here in America. So, I mean, we all know where we're at on that. But I just did think if you were wondering, you know, who you should vote for. I mean, that's enough for me.

If a politician says, the crowd member says, Jesus is Lord, because it's now been brought to your forefront and you have numerous things that you could say about that. But when you say you're at the wrong rally, I'm just telling you,

That made me pause right there. Because she could have just ignored it, which is what would have been the smart thing. Yeah, and I didn't mean to go all political on you, but I just noticed that then somebody had to test the other side on the vice presidential. He was up talking, and somebody hollered, Christ is king. And he stopped and said, yeah, he is Christ.

Christ is king. And I thought, well, okay, I think that made up my mind. Well, you were undecided before that, right? You were kind of way out. Jace was an undecided voter, but he had the two situations. You know, I vote because I think our warriors and people in the past laid their lives down so that we could have freedom and we could vote. And I'm clear about how I vote. But what I'm saying is no matter who's elected,

I'm not going to ride in the street. I'm going to say we're going to use this to get Jesus out. I mean, my mode of operetta is not going to change whatsoever, but I do enjoy the freedom to do it without somebody trying to lock me up or shoot me. Yeah, because the thing on the voting, I do think Christ has something to say about

that he is Lord of our politics, but you got to keep in mind, he is Lord of our politics. And, and so what, whatever happens politically, we're going to, you know, we have a civic duty to engage in that. But I'll tell you right now, like when it comes to the kingdom of God and, and his building of his kingdom, it, it will not be stopped.

By what we do. He is sovereign, and he is king, and he is superior, and he is preeminent. And so that's why my hope, our hope, you can't let your hope ride on what's happening in the geopolitical sphere. That's why I brought this up, just because the passage says that. These things were created by him and for him. Thrones, authorities, rulers, powers, everything.

So, I mean, we had skipped over it and I thought, you know, I think we should discuss it. No, and the big thing that I won't say that you're missing, that we maybe glanced over here, right? Whatever's going to happen.

is out of our hands. The Almighty ultimately makes the decision and He knows what's going to happen. The Almighty knows what's going to happen way before we do. We don't know what we want. We can sit here and pray on it and pray on it and pray on it and say, you know, this person has all of our values. They're doing all the right things. They seem to be a godly person. This is the person we need in the White House to move forward. It all makes sense to us. It's perfect because right now and where we're at in our life, it all makes perfect sense. And this can be relatable to anything in your life, right?

But we don't know what we want. Only He does. So if we pray on it and pray on it and pray on it and it doesn't happen, you can't lose faith because what you have to understand is He knows what you want better than you know what you want. And there's a plan behind everything that He's doing when it goes to the ultimate plan that He has for us. So I'm a firm believer now that

If the person we want to win does not win, there's a reason for that. Something else is going to happen, which is part of God's ultimate plan. And that's where we need to make sure that we don't lose sight of that. Let me say one thing, though. I do think this, there's a lot of people like me, I'm not looking at my choices and thinking either one of these people represent what I believe or my values.

I'm just being honest and I know I'll get some flack for that on here, but that's okay. I don't, but I don't, I don't, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to participate in the election. I'm, but I'm not going to carry the water. So all these are these, this is a great Christian man or great Christian woman. Yeah. I don't see that. And, but I don't think, I don't think that's what, I mean, if you're looking for that, I mean, I don't know when, when have you ever seen that really? And so I think it's more like what, where, what is God,

leading us to in the direction of your choices that you do have. And that's the, that's the decision people have to make. And that I would just say, but there are, but not everybody's going to, you don't have to carry the water for anybody, you know, to engage in civic duty and to engage in. And, and I do think there is a kingdom of,

ethic and responsibility that we have to participate in this in in in what's happening in our election cycles well there's but we have to i mean romans 13 is in the book obey and submit to the authorities he created them for for order he says pay your taxes you know but what he says in that statement because i get asked this in the grocery store all the time they're like you know well who you voting for what's your political take or whatever and uh

But when he said that statement, give to Caesar what is Caesar's, because he had a coin that he had to borrow, and he had his image on there. He's like, yeah, pay your taxes. And there's other verses many times over that say that. So we are to submit to that. But he also says, but give to God what is God's. Well, we're not going to. There's a time when it's, and purely by study, the character of Jesus and Bible study,

basic principles that is something that is contrary to the life of Christ. Well, we're not submitting to that. But unfortunately, and what I tell people what they don't like to hear, my take on it is, but we do so, we resist. So we submit to the government because God instituted it, but we also resist on some

matters of morality or un-Christlike behavior. I'll just pick one, defending the innocent and the unborn. I'm not compromising on that. That's right. But what we get our opportunity to do is suffer humbly. I mean, that's what Jesus ultimately did, and that's what we do. And that's why all the disciples lost their life

Because they would not deny Jesus as Lord, among other things. Some things they wouldn't do that the government was telling them to do it. And they were like, if you don't do this, we're going to kill you. So guess what? They got to humbly sacrifice rather than surrender. And I think that's a difference in revolting and using some kind of physical force.

weaponry to overtake. That is not what we're called to do. No, we're not. The hard thing, I think, for a lot of people right now is that you feel like you have to choose between, like, it's a false dichotomy that's being presented. Like, God, I truly believe that there is a kingdom, like, there is Jesus, he does have something to say about the way that we vote and the policies that we support.

Um, and I can, and I believe that. And I, and when I go into that polling precinct and I, and I pull that lever, I had that in mind. I'm looking at the platforms. I'm not even really looking at people anymore. I'm being honest with you. I'm looking, but I am looking at the platforms and I'm saying, well, that's what you should do. Yeah. Which, what, what, what platform is,

I do believe that some platforms are antithetical to the gospel. I don't believe that platforms that have the agendas that erode, number one, are they predicated on the Imago Dei? It's been one of my big critiques, by the way, about the Republican Party and what's happened in the Republican Party is that we have actually moved. We've moved a lot away from the foundation of what this whole country was founded on, which is that rights come first.

That's right.

Zach, one of the things that I said recently, I don't think I said it on this podcast. I think I was on somebody else's. And I said, the one thing I would change if I could go back to young Al in 1983, I

when I registered to vote for the first time is, and I was, it was a Reagan era and I was a huge Reagan guy. And so I registered Republican and, you know, I've in most of my life been a proud Republican, but if I could go back and change based on me now being 60 years old, I would have registered as an independent.

I wouldn't have really tied into a party one way or the other. And I would have just done what you just described. I would have looked at everything through a kingdom lens and not got into party because I've been super disappointed in a lot of things on the Republican side. It doesn't, I mean, still I vote mostly Republican because it, it does enhance exactly what you talked about kingdom wise. But, you know, I think as Christians and as kingdom people, we have to do that because the party can move. And if you don't realize you move with it,

And it's not always best to do that. And you can still vote for the party. I think the key is you just don't become partisan. I don't think you can be partisan and be – I'll say this. I don't think that the kingdom position is a partisan position.

But you do have an opportunity to look at what is being presented by the candidates, what's being presented. And you have to ask the question, like, what's the apparatus that's coming behind this? Because if you think about it, what Jace described earlier is true. Jesus came here and in his day was the choice of Romans versus Israel. And he chose neither. He chose himself.

And a new kingdom. Yeah, well, but look at his life, though. Look, actually, in practicality, he represented a lot of the agendas on both sides. He embraced the poor.

He fought injustice. He brought all races of people together in love. And his health care system was awesome. He was just healing everybody, you know. But I've said on the other side, he was also quoting the definition of marriage. He was all about kids and children. He was all about capitalism. Yeah. So I'm saying you look at all that stuff and you put it together. And I'm just...

I'm glad you brought that up about the people. I love all people. Absolutely. It doesn't matter what affiliation they are politically, but any kind of agenda that's going to kill unborn children or mutilate children and have them go through a sex change because they can't figure out their identity and all. Just because they're going through a questioning period in their lives? Oh, I'm raring...

I'm rearing back at that. I'm never voting for that because it's just demonic. But even on the economics of it, even on the caring for the poor, you know, that's a—this is—I hate the way this is presented as if this is like a left cause and then the right—actually, if you go— I mean, you're right, but I'm saying it is perceived. Yeah, but my point is, though, that I truly believe that Jesus has something to say even about our economics. And so the question then becomes—

Well, which economic theory in practice does actually help the poor? Is it social welfare programs? Does that work? Is that best for the poor? Or is it a market-based system that lifts people out of poverty? And then let's talk about that. Let's have that discussion because I do think that –

that there is something to be said, that the kingdom of God, Jesus has something to say about how we engage in economics too. Either he's Lord of all or he's not Lord at all is what someone once said. And I believe that's true. And so we can have the discussions now. Well, let's talk about how we care for the poor and what's the best way to do that. And does this particular position or policy, does it line up with what the kingdom ethic is on that? Well,

Well, Phil has made a cameo appearance. Phil, how do you feel? Pretty rough. Well, you just had back surgery, Phil. Most people recover for like a week. I think you were gone in an hour. That's probably a record. It was rough. Yeah.

We're glad you bought. So we still got a couple more days for dad to heal up and hopefully we'll get him on a future podcast. But we did want to show you that he's still kicking. Dad, you're still out there doing the Lord's work. We've been talking about voting. We want to make sure we get out and vote tomorrow.

and food we talked about all the good food you've been eating you've been getting some good grub because everybody's rallying to you yeah well the fact that you're walking around a couple days after back surgery is uh pretty incredible so yeah well thank you uh unashamed nation for all the prayers and uh it's good to see dad at least for a couple of minutes thanks for stopping by dad we'll hopefully get him back up and running back in his class with old jersey and

back on the podcast as well be sure and go vote uh think kingdom minded when you walk into that booth i think that's here's your man that kept me kept me going he's down the butler he's thank you dan nodded his head said no i'm not making an appearance thank you dan dan's been waiting in those waiting rooms so we appreciate him too we'll see you next time on unashamed thanks for listening to the unashamed podcast help us out by rating us on itunes and

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