How To Launch One of The Worlds Top Podcasts w/Jordan Harbinger
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A lot of people are turning to podcasting. Can you give me some quick and dirty tips if someone's listening, starting a podcast?

When you are first starting with a podcast, do not try to be the everything show. People need to know what they're getting. Don't think that you're going to make money podcasting. No one listens to this tip. Everybody's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Except I'm really going to make money podcasting. He's talking to everyone else. Be consistent, which is, it sounds really obvious, but I'm just always surprised by how many people are going to start a weekly podcast and then they do three and then they take six weeks off because they can't find the time to create it. And then they do three more and they're like, I'm not getting any traction. And the other thing I would say is

My name's Rudy Moore, host of Living the Red Life podcast, and I'm here to change the way you see your life in your earpiece every single week. If you're ready to start living the red life, ditch the blue pill, take the red pill, join me in Wonderland and change your life. What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Living the Red Life. I have my friend Jordan Harbringer here today. He has a very famous podcast. You probably know who he is, and I always look up to him as like the OG of podcasting. Jordan, welcome to the show.

Yeah, thanks for having me on just as I hit my lights. Nothing like a professional is like, what am I missing? Oh, yeah, all the lighting that I have in my studio that I've paid thousands of dollars for. Maybe I should turn those on. Yeah, thanks for having me on, man.

Of course, of course. And thanks for your time. And guys, today we're going to dive into the world of podcasting. You know, like I said, you've done an amazing job of building what I would say one of the top podcasts in the world, which is an easy achievement. I know you've been doing it for many, many years, top 10. And obviously in 2018, it was ranked as, you know, the best of 2018 by Apple, which is a pretty amazing achievement when it comes to podcasting. You've met

some of the most fascinating people on the planet through it. But yeah, I think if anyone doesn't know about the show and you, do you mind just giving a 30 second overview? Sure. So the Jordan Harbinger Show, obviously creative title that I thought of myself. Yes. You know, it's funny. People are like, oh, you should have named it something about what the show is. And then became this discussion of I've been podcasting for 18 years.

do I want to pigeonhole myself into what the show is about or do I have enough sort of street cred to lean on my name only? And that was a tough decision to make and it required a lot of investigation of like, what are people searching for? Are there enough search queries for my name in podcasting and on the web to get the traffic for that? Or should I name it like, live your best life with Jordan Harbinger, you know, something like that. And I couldn't think of any other good titles for it. So I really thought, okay, temporary title,

the Jordan Harbinger show, but it's been almost a decade with that, and it's actually worked out quite well. But early in the game, I think if we're going to be practical here, never name your show after yourself with nothing else unless you have a name that is... A lot of people name the show after themselves because they're like, this is going to build my name. It doesn't work well in the internet age. If you're on TV and it's 1985, you can be like,

let's just call the show Larry King Live and everyone's like, okay, and then it's like, you're Larry King and this must be your show and I'm watching it because it's the only thing on TV at 10.30 p.m., right? Now, you can't be like, this is the John Smith show because everyone's like, so what? There's two million shows, right? So you really have to take a different tack with it. It's better to be like,

you know, mindfulness and presence and yoga with Jordan. It's like, okay, now I know what I'm getting. And there's this guy, Jordan here. So my show to answer your question, actually answer your question, my show, I interview what I think are fascinating people. I, and I, I try to sort of break down their stories, secrets and skills. So whether it's a,

big time counterfeiter or drug trafficker or con man. I like those, but I also like really incredible people who've built incredible businesses or high profile athletes. We had Kobe Bryant on a few years back, sadly, you know, he's passed away since then, but we were able to get some really amazing folks on the show.

And profile them. And then every Friday, I give advice. People write in with questions like, how do I get a raise at work? How do I escape from this cult? How do I get my sister to leave this abusive relationship? All kinds of crazy stuff. And then on Sundays, we break down. We do Skeptical Sunday, which is where we break down a topic like vitamins, diet pills, energy drinks. And we sort of break down the science behind them and show like, is this bullshit or is it real, candidly? And a lot of...

Candidly, a lot of the stuff out there is nonsense. Surprise, surprise. If you remember that old show Penn & Teller Bullshit on, I think it was HBO or Cinemax or whatever, like a decade or two decades ago, it's kind of like that, of course, podcast version. So that's why it's been hard to pigeonhole the show, right? Because I have three different segments that run every week that are very different from one another entirely. And even the guest interviews,

are not all in one niche. So really it's hard to sort of put myself into one hole, but I know you like practical. So I'll, I'll stop yammering after this one. When you are first starting with a podcast, do not try to be the everything show. I am the everything show right now.

and can follow my own interests entirely because I've got 18 years in the game and I have a massive loyal audience. When you're starting, people need to know what they're getting. Right now, people go, I love your show. I never know what I'm getting, but I always know it's going to be good because I've been listening to you for eight years and I'm never disappointed. What you can't do is...

This is the everything show. You never know what you're getting. And also it's been three weeks and I've just started podcasting because then people go, no, thanks. I'm here for business interviews. I don't want to hear like your comedian interview with some guy I've never heard of the end and the illusion. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, it's kind of funny to cross over. Cause like pretty much everything you just said, there is what I teach when it comes to more building the business, personal brand side of the same, right? Like I, I mean, an important point is, um, yeah,

You know, I always teach go a little more into a sub niche to start and then you can expand out as you grow. So like an example for me is I started as a Facebook ad kind of guy guru, got really big, they're really good. And then I wanted to go bigger and I got more into marketing and business in general.

And I think it's similar maybe your podcasting journey and for a lot of people, maybe they should start being the expert on multi-family real estate, right? And then over time, they might become the real estate expert. Then eventually how they invest in all these different types of investments and how their life's wonderful and they balance family life and being an ultra millionaire, right? Kind of the same journey. Yeah.

Exactly. It's easy for people to go, well, look at this Jordan Harbinger guy. The first episode I see is 2017 or 18 or whatever, and he is already doing whatever he wants. Okay, but for the 12 years before that, I had different stuff going on. And for more than half of those dozen years, all I did was talk about dating, relationships,

body language, some communication. And then it spread out into, let me interview some of my favorite authors like Robert Greene, which was still sort of tangentially like reading people and getting along with people and blah, blah, blah, 48 laws of power. And then it was like, okay, I'm going to do something wildly different and interview this guy I know who was a drug smuggler. And it'll be interesting. But if you're not into this kind of stuff, just skip the episode.

And then listen to the other stuff. And a whole bunch of people were like, hey, you should do like one a month, something like this, because it's really good and really interesting. And nobody's doing this. Remember, again, this is like 2011.

And I was like, okay, cool. And then I slowly, very slowly started to turn the oil tanker that was this business and podcast. It wasn't like one day everyone woke up and all of my shows were wildly different than the core thing. It was like 100% core subject,

you know, a year later, 90% core subject, a year later, 70 to 80% core subject. And then it started to become a mixed thing. And then I still, and I got feedback. Like I only listened to the core subject ones, you know, you're losing me with the other ones. But then I got more feedback that was like, I really liked the variety in your show because I got sick of this other stuff. Cause I

because I'm married now and I don't care about dating, you know, or whatever. And now I'm able to do whatever I want. But I've also, again, I'm in my 18th or 19th year of podcasting. So that's like halfway through or more of a reasonably long career in digital media, which in digital 18 years is an eternity, right? Yeah. That's it's like having 40 years in another career, basically, you know.

Yeah, I love that. And exactly the same transition. And I think eventually you also have an audience adaptation to like you mentioned that, you know, with me, a lot of my audience like Facebook ads, but then they wanted to learn funnels and building a team. So it was a natural transition for me and probably like for you with with a lot of your audience. So

I would love to talk about a lot of my audience are personal brands. They follow me because they're influencers, entrepreneurs, and I always teach now there's such a crossover between a physical brand and a personal brand, and they're almost interlinked these days. And a lot of them are turning to podcasting because it's such a great platform now to reach millions of people. And I always teach, you can't get a more loyal customer than someone that's tuning in for an hour

a week or maybe even multiple hours a week listening, right? Like that's more than they're speaking to, you know, their best friend on many occasions and within a given week. So a lot of people are turning to podcasting. Can you give me some quick and dirty tips if someone's listening, starting a podcast?

Yeah. One, I think we just covered this and I think people should write it down. That sort of niche down idea. Don't try to be the everything show. Find one very specific small niche that you're interested in and just cover it to death and see what kind of audience you build. There's almost no such thing as niching down too small. I mean, of course there is at some extreme level, but you're probably not going to find it.

right away. So niche down, be consistent, which is, it sounds really obvious, but I'm just always surprised by how many people are going to start a weekly podcast and then they do three and then they take six weeks off because they can't find the time to create it. And then they do three more and they're like, I'm not getting any traction. And it's like, well, you're never going to with this rate of release. Everybody thinks that you're gone. You're starting over every single time, you know? And the other thing I would say is

record your first six episodes before you release anything and see if you even like podcasting because the problem is a lot of people go, you know, it's really fun and I just like it as a hobby. And then they do six and they're like, oh, this is a ton of work.

It's not really going to get any traction right away. And I don't like it that much. You can just get rid of it and never launch the thing. Right. Just delete those or chalk it up to experience or release them all at once and then forget it's up there and don't care about it anymore. Don't release two and then say, we're going to be here all year and then lose traction three weeks in because you'll look like kind of a knucklehead doing that.

And then you got to take it off your website. And then you got to email your list and be like, oh, sorry, podcasting is not really a thing we're doing. And you just look like a weird quitter that can't get their crap together. It actually damages your brand. So consistency is key. And the way to do it is to record a bunch at first and see if you actually like it. Another tip that I give is don't think that you're going to make money podcasting. No one listens to this tip. Everybody's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Except I'm really going to make money podcasting. He's talking to everyone else.

It took me years to make money podcasting. Sure, there were no such thing as podcast ads. Sure, I didn't really have a coaching business in the beginning because I didn't know what I was doing and I was just running a podcast for fun in 2006, whatever. But most podcasts never actually get enough audience to monetize with ads, period, always.

Most podcasters don't have anything directly for sale. And if they do, they probably aren't going to make a sale through their podcast. They're going to make it through their email list or whatever, like Facebook ads, whatever sort of like previous primary platform they already have.

So it's a lot of work for very low ROI for literally years. So you really have to love recording stuff and putting it out there as a straight up hobby. And, you know, people always my friends who are really successful, we always talk about like, what would you do if you were diagnosed with a terminal illness and you only had one year to live?

And I'm always like, I have so many podcasts I have to record. And they're like, dude, you're going to die. Jordan, you're going to die. I don't think you understand the exercise. No, no, that's this is my excuse to like call Barack Obama and, you know, Elon Musk and be like, I'm going to die. So you kind of have to do my podcast. You're a terrible person. You know, and my friends are like, you're you're you're a psychopath. Right. So no, but that's great. That's true passion. Right. Right. Right. Yeah.

And I think also like just to touch on the make money side, like, and, and the launch side, you

you know, my brand got pretty big over the last four or five years. And a lot of my staff would give me pressure on my top customers about launching a podcast. And I pushed it off for like two, three years for the exact reason you said, because I know, you know, being in business for 10 plus years, the reality is grass isn't always greener. So I had, I really waited until like in my core, I felt I was ready and then did exactly what you said. I like

planned four months out, shot, I think, 10 plus episodes, had some great guests in and had everything ready. And I do think that's so important. And then, yeah, I think also the monetization side, like I always say, for me, I've actually made a lot of money going on other people's large podcasts where they have massive guests and then they come into my ecosystem. But I mean, that's because I'm a great marketer with a great ecosystem. I'm

I'm really, my own podcast is to connect with other amazing people, just like I'm sure you've been able to through yours and to give my audience value and build that long-term rapport and relationship and value to that audience. Yeah, I agree. I mean, podcasting is great for sort of the networking relationship, delivering audience value. Like that's one of the reasons why I really love it. And you mentioned this earlier, but having that sort of like,

When people tune into you for an hour or, in my case, three hours every week, depending on how much they're listening, and sometimes people listen even more. You know, I get those Spotify rap things at the end of the year where someone's listened to like 11,000 hours of the show or something, and I'm like, wait.

how is this possible? And they're like, I'm a truck driver. You know, I'm just like, holy smokes. You just like, you're like, yeah, I listen. And then I start over because I realized I haven't been paying attention and I listen again and then I listen again and then I listen again. And then some of these stories are so good. I listen again. I'm just like, holy smokes. But like you get those, those folks and they, they, when they email me about something, they know me better than some of my closest friends because they've heard everything that I've talked about for a decade or more.

And it's just like, they're like, oh yeah, your cats must be this years old by now and your kids must be doing this and my kids are, and I'm just like, wow, this is really interesting. And not scary yet. It's going to be scary when an AI knows all that stuff, which I'm sure it already does, but it's just kind of flattering at this point. But it's cool because you can't get that kind of rapport with, say,

social media as much or with email as much. Yes, I feel like you know social media influencers because my wife follows these moms and they're like, my kid pooped all over the car today. It's like, okay, you know this anecdote, but you don't really know the mindset of this person. People know me really well because I'm not a fake person on my show. I'm basically the same person I am on the microphone as I am off the microphone. And so...

It's a parasocial relationship, which is really, really cool. And it also brings with you

some sense of responsibility. Like you could really screw over your audience by selling out and starting, I don't know, like your own cryptocurrency or some crap. You know what I mean? Like you could really screw people over. So you have a lot of responsibility and a duty of care to your audience. And I would say if you're not interested in that, you should also not podcast because people are going to be counting on you for things. They're going to be writing into you. They're going to be asking you questions. And if you're just like, buy my thing to get the answer,

You're building this really good relationship only to kind of like squander it for no good reason by trying to be too salesy or being standoffish or ignoring your inbound. And that's a shame. And it's not good. It's actually bad for your brand. It would be better for you just to be email marketer, you know, marketer selling some course online than it would be to be a podcaster that then turns out to not care about their audience. That's worse.

because you're just selling a course. Nobody's like, we're friends. But he's selling me a course. They're just like, I'm buying this course online. But if you kind of give this parasocial relationship and you get that going, and then you're like, if you want to talk to me, you have to pay money. It's like, what is this, OnlyFans? So I've heard. What is it? You know, like, I'm not going to, this guy's a jerk. I don't like him. He's just trying to get my money. It's actually worse to do this podcasting thing wrong than it is to not do it at all.

And I think like I teach in social media, which is just an extension. I think everyone has it backwards when they go that route. Like I never very, very, very, very rarely do I ever sell on social. I always teach build the community there. That's your top of funnel. And then if they come on your email list and all of these things, you can retarget them with Facebook ads and email them. And then if they want to go buy something, they can. But yeah, I always think social should be like pure value.

over deliver, top of funnel, build a long time, longevity brand. But a lot of people don't think that way, right? So that's the downside to social. They don't. I get it because I'm sure there is, I won't say wisdom. I'm sure there's results in selling people crap as quickly as you possibly can. But

It's not going to be that good because you're going to have, I think y'all marketers, you call it churn, right? Like you'll be able to sell a certain amount of people your $4 to $5 entry-level product. But the problem is,

A lot of them are going to be like, oh, never mind. Right. And then you'll just never hear from them again. What I what I like is when somebody emails me and they're like, hey, I've never written in, but I have an opinion about this. And I'm like, oh, cool. You know, how did you find the show? And they're like, oh, I've been listening to you for eight years. It's like, wow, this person really trusts, knows, likes what I create.

years. I'm just now hearing from them. So I have a large degree of trust with this person. What am I going to do with it? Buy my thing for 40 bucks. Like that's kind of a waste. I'd rather just have them support the sponsors of the show that they enjoy, write in, share the show with anyone who will listen at Thanksgiving. Like these are priceless fans of my work and the show. So that I want to keep those, those people are worth

I don't even know. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dollars. The last thing I'm going to try to do is sell them a $28 PDF. You know what I mean? Well, it's the loyal tribe thing, right? So, you know, as we come to the end of today, I want to just recircle and wrap the audience. Like we talked a lot about, you know, naming the show correctly, how to maybe find a good niche to sod in it, how to look at it from the right perspective, how to...

um make make sure you're actually committing for the right reasons and beta test it before launch and then finally i think how to look at it from a longevity perspective which isn't maybe as obvious but we've been talking about it the last five ten minutes is how to really nurture that audience and build a tribe and community the right way so hopefully that's a ton of takeaways already in this short episode today

Um, any last words for people that are either have their podcast trying to get off the ground or thinking of starting it before we wrap? Uh, I'm sure that I do. Let me, let me think here. I would say, you know, I think for podcasting, I I'm sort of like,

I guess I'm very, I hold podcasting and I have like a special place, you know, in my heart for this thing. And there's 2.5 million, literally, I think, podcasts. Wow. If in like a few hundred of them actually make money from it. I'm sure there's more that actually make money in other ways.

I really think people should not podcast unless they really, really enjoy the process. Like I said, most of them are never going to monetize. It's a lot of work. But if you're really obsessed about a topic and you really love talking about a topic and you really love talking to other people about that topic, podcasting is like the most fun thing I think you can do. And so...

You don't have to have a radio voice. Everyone's like, I hate my voice. Yeah, join the club, man. I grew up in the 80s and 90s. I heard my voice on answering machines. It was ugly. I've had years of voice coaching. I'm not self-conscious about my voice anymore. It only took two decades. You don't need natural talent for this. You build it over years and years.

So just start doing the thing and it doesn't matter if it's good. Really, it doesn't. It matters if you try hard. It doesn't have to be brilliant in the beginning. You don't worry about your animations. Don't worry about your lighting. Don't worry about whether you get famous people on at first. Just obsess over a topic, talk about it, and make it valuable for somebody who's listening and then mercilessly edit it down to the salient chunks and release that. Make a 20-minute really...

sort of category dense, information dense, nutritious,

podcast product that people can consume without talking about your weekend for 20 minutes in the beginning, right? Without dropping an F-bomb all the time because you don't have anything important to say and that's your brand now. You know, like there's all these simple things you can do to make something really good and just do that for literally years if you want to and you will find that people who stick with you are going to buy everything that you wanted. It's just going to take longer than you probably wanted to do, wanted to take.

That's really it. And if you don't enjoy it, quit because you're not going to get to a point where your podcast is really making a ton of money and you hate it. That's never a point. I know podcasters that hate it but are making so much money that they're still doing it. Zero. I think that can happen in some businesses, but in podcasting, it has to be a passion. With social media in general, I teach them on Instagram and people think they launch an Instagram organically, make a bunch of money. I'm like, no, it's the opposite. That's why I teach ads.

That's where you can actually launch quicker and make money. It's got to be the long play. So, Jordan, thanks so much for coming on. I know we could keep going for a lot longer than you're used to going for a lot longer. I am. But, you know, obviously if people don't know who you are,

then it's a perfect gateway for them to check you out. And I'm really excited to have you here to talk about podcasting in itself. If you've not done that, and I thought, who do I want to bring on about that? Well, no one better than you. So thank you, buddy. It's been a pleasure. And we'll throw the show notes in all the links so they can check you out. We'll catch up soon. So thank you. And everyone, take care, buddy. Everyone keep living the red life. I'll see you guys soon.

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