434: The Addiction (+ Cost) of Constant Achievement with Israa Nasir
01:01:47 Share

How as an entrepreneur do you find that balance and know when is enough good enough? Entrepreneur mental health is extremely important because if you're not well, your revenue is going to suffer eventually. There is no other way. You know, I'm super ambitious and I of course want to grow but not at the detriment to what I really care about and

knowing your enough points essential because when you get to that point without awareness, you'll just keep going. Truthfully, I think if you want to have a better relationship to productivity and your life goals, it really does begin with self-awareness. We have to unlearn all of the BS that we've been taught and push it aside.

Welcome back to the Boss Babe Podcast. I'm Natalie Ellis, your host for this episode. And wow, do we have a good one for you. So when I heard the tagline of this guest's new book,

I was like, you need to come on the podcast and talk about this. So her tagline is reclaim your time and emotional energy in a world that always demands more. And I feel like that could not resonate with us anymore because as ambitious women, we are constantly asking

feeling the demands of more from everywhere. And it takes a lot of emotional and self-regulation to be able to know when enough is enough. I talk about that a lot. When is enough good enough? And one thing she says is productivity is not a time management issue. It's an emotional management issue. And I really resonate with that. So I'm really excited because today we have Isra Nazia on the podcast and

Now, she is a psychotherapist, a speaker, founder of the mental health brand, a well guide, and

And why I really wanted to have her on is I fundamentally do agree. I do think productivity is an emotional management issue because a lot of the time when we are addicted to busyness and more and proving and people pleasing and all those things that stems from our emotions and how we are feeling and the beliefs that we hold and

And so I was really excited to have her on to really get into that conversation and to look at what does it really take

to break that cycle of never enough or always busy, always chaotic, always more. And that's exactly what we get into. I think you're really going to resonate with this episode. It spoke to me on a really, really deep level and I could see myself in so much of what she was sharing. So I hope you really love it. Let's dive straight in.

Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me. It was very exciting for me to come and chat with you. I'm so excited. So I want to dive into your story first and foremost, because I know we definitely have oldest daughter syndrome in common. Can you dive into a little bit of why the work you do now became so important to you?

Gosh, there's just so many factors that play into why we choose the things we choose, right? And so for me, I think one of the things that really comes naturally to me, and I think I say that in quotes because I think it's a byproduct of being the oldest daughter, but also being the middle child, is I'm very good at moderating and mediating things.

And I think by extension of that quality, it's something that I realized that I am really good at because I had to do it forever. And I think that's what kind of led me to choosing this career. But I also think that there is a like a genuine curiosity for human behavior because originally I was studying environmental studies.

And I wanted to put all of my energy and service to conservation sciences. But I think I halfway through my undergrad, I became really curious about human behavior, why we do the things we do. And that coupled with my mediating skills, I kind of encouraged me to pursue the path of being a therapist. Yeah. And so what did your early career look like getting started? Yeah.

Being a therapist when you're very early on is very challenging because the system is set up to, there's just a lot of steps you have to follow before you can, um, be an independent clinician. And that requires working a lot of long hours for very minimal pay. And you're just trying to like get experience and truly like the more experience you get, the better you are as a clinician. So I first, my first job out of, uh,

getting a master's was working at a shelter for homeless women and women who were fleeing intimate partner violence, under housed woman, woman struggling with substance use. And it was in a little bit of like a struggling community.

And that was my first foray into the mental health system. And I learned very quickly how the system encourages this revolving door. You know, they're not really solving and they can't, and there's so many limitations. There's financial limitations, personal agency, history of trauma in the individual. But I learned a lot about the mental health system through that job. And I was exposed to a lot of different types of people.

I had never met somebody who was struggling with substance abuse before I started that job. I came from a very privileged sheltered background.

you know, living in a suburb. So like you really didn't see a lot of this. Um, but that was a very eyeopening role for me. And then I went on to work in community mental health for the South Asian immigrant population, uh, particularly, and did a little bit of work and inpatient supporting people who are leaving inpatient into, um, uh,

integrating back because that's a very challenging point in someone's mental health journey. And then I did a little bit of private practice. And so I kind of really touched the entire system as much as I could, um, before deciding to transition into digital health.

So I work in digital health now, helping mental health startups build really good clinical systems so that we're not just leveraging technology to solve the mental health problem. We're actually creating a very effective service. And so all of this is something I do outside of having written this book. And I know that you're maybe trying to be like, how does this all connect?

And it connects because my drive to do a lot and do different things and constantly be on and looking for opportunities to optimize my life and make the most out of my degree and make the most out of my skills, you know, aside from working in digital health, I decided to become a public speaker. I decided to start a wellness platform. I decided to write for magazines. I was like, I was going to do everything I can to

that really led me into this mindset that I explore in the book, which is, you know, the most optimized life is not the happiest life. So I was achieving a lot. I was on the outside end. You were like, wow, this girl's got it. But I was really miserable. I do less now, but I'm a little happier. Hmm.

- Hmm, yeah, the most optimized life is not necessarily the happiest life and it sometimes takes having the most optimized life to realize this. I was just talking with a friend yesterday and I was saying I had a blowout yesterday and it was so interesting 'cause I realized a version of myself five years ago would have had my laptop, I mean even three years ago, had my laptop, I'd be doing all my things, checking everything off, just like making the most of every hour. And yesterday I just sat there the whole time and I just thought,

and de-stressed, regulated my nervous system and I left feeling great. And I've had to retrain myself to not squeeze the most out of every single moment and realize like it's not about all the habit stacking and optimization. Sometimes a blowout's just a blowout. Sometimes a walk's just a walk and it's not necessarily quote unquote productive, but it's been a relearning. And so for you, one thing that you talk about is you want people to realize that

doing more doesn't make you more worthy.

But I think that's very, very hard for those of us who grew up in an environment where achievement was so celebrated and we're in a culture where the person that is the busiest is the one who is most celebrated. For me, I feel like that it goes, yes, deep into childhood, but just deep into the society that we're in, like constantly comparing and social media and seeing all of that. So how do you start to think about that when it's so deeply ingrained?

It's really foundational to a lot of millennials. Um, and you know, I think, I think everybody struggles with this to some degree, but I think it's become a common topic of conversation because millennials are kind of like in this like thirties to forties domain and, you know, they're in leadership positions. And so we are having this, you know, cultural conversation and,

Um, because as a millennial, I know that I grew up in a false meritocracy. If you work harder, you get more. And so that's like very instilled. And I think that did get amplified because of social media and the advent of email technology and changing the way we work because there is no separation anymore.

Um, and so it's really challenging to identify something that is around you. So if you, there's like a small anecdote that I love sharing is, you know, if there's two fish in water, because they've been in water their whole lives, they actually don't know what water is. If you were to ask them, Hey, like what's water, they're not going to know. It's kind of like, we don't know what air is unless it's gone. Then we feel the absence.

And I think what one of the best ways you can kind of tap into this is building a habit of regular introspection and checking in with yourself. Because when we live in this world where we're just absorbing messages, and then we have the foundational messages that we received as children, and then the culture is also telling you, and then you get on social media to decompress, but you're seeing everybody doing like a million things. It's really hard to not go into autopilot.

You start doing without thinking. So what you want to do is you want to think and then do. So if we can build a small habit of self-awareness, introspection, journaling, whatever calls you in any format, I think it's really important to check in.

And the two questions I really want people to ask themselves is why do I do the things that I do? And do I have to do them? Because bringing that awareness into your habits, into your, what you're saying yes to, what you're committing to bring that awareness is the first step. If somebody wants to kind of break out of it.

And what was some of those things for you where you brought some awareness to it and were realizing, wait, why am I doing this? This is not something I want to be doing or is even, you know, benefiting. I'm just doing it because I think I should be doing it. Going out every day. When I moved to New York City, I was obsessed with going out every day. And, you know, we can think about productivity in the lens of work, but because it's so permeated in our culture, it actually affects every aspect of our life.

So I was trying to optimize every evening. I wanted to go to every show. I wanted to go to every musical thing that was happening. I wanted to go to every pop-up that was happening. And that was one of the things that I was just doing because everybody else was doing it. And I had this idea, if you live in New York city, then you have to go out every day. But what that did is it absolutely drained me. Imagine going out seven days a week.

It was so tiring to the point where I wasn't even enjoying it anymore. I was dragging myself to parties. I was half checked out in concerts because I was so tired and having working, you know, working the full day and then trying to get to somewhere on time. You're skipping meals. You're not working out. You're not getting physical exercises, etc.

You know, you're out late, so you're not sleeping enough. So you have to wake up early. It was just this cycle of trying to optimize and make the most out of my life there. But it actually wasn't furthering any purpose except for an immediate feeling of, oh, this is what living in New York feels like. Like I'm a New Yorker. I feel good enough. Like everyone's doing it, so I'm doing it.

And not to mention the cost, right? So it's also having this like financial impact on me because you're buying clothes, you're going out, you're eating. So it was just, I think that was a big thing for me that I had to change. And how do you then counteract that feeling of I'm good enough because I'm doing all these things. I'm good enough because I'm showing up at all the events. I'm good enough because everyone likes me or whatever. Like how do you start to really...

reparent that part of yourself that doesn't feel good enough when they're not doing all the things. Gosh, I mean, that's life's work, right? But I remember like a point, like a breaking point for me where I left a party and I was just sending a voice note to my friend about how I had seen these people like probably like three or four times in the last two week period at going to the same events, right?

But I left feeling really bad that day. I, for some reason, I can't remember the exact details, but I left feeling really bad about myself that day. And I sent a long voice note to my friend on the walk back. And I was just like talking through some of the feelings I was having. And he responded with, you know, you've said this to me every single time in the last month.

And he's like, "I don't know if you realize that you're feeling bad after you leave." And so that made me check in with myself. And so that was like an accountability piece.

So I think that, you know, to counter this feeling, we have to become accountable for our, our emotions. And so doing an audit, thinking about how do I feel after I hang out with this person? How do I feel after I say yes to every single opportunity at work? How do I feel if I'm the only one who's volunteering to make the meeting, like ordering the meeting food and like coffees and like things like that. Right.

Just checking with how you feel right after is a really big, you know, sign about how you're feeling about your pattern, because that led me to then look back and say, wait, like there is this pattern here. I don't want to say yes, but I say it.

I don't want to go. I drag myself there. I'm like miserable getting ready. And then I'm there. I'm kind of like, like itching to leave. And then I leave and I feel bad about myself. And so I decided that I'm going to say no to the next event. And it was so uncomfortable because there's this fear of missing out when we are trying to optimize our life. But, you know, I said no and the world didn't end.

They still invited me to the next thing. You know, they still, they're still my friends. They still check in with me. I check in with them. So I think that's a thing we have to kind of get over the fear. And what about the examples of, and maybe you felt this,

saying yes in kind of the micro and the way you live your day-to-day life, but this overall feeling of being behind and these timelines that we, society, I think places out there, you know, if you're not married by this age, if you're not quote unquote successful by this age, if you haven't got kids by this age, how do you think about that? And was that ever something that you had to really wrestle with?

Absolutely. So timelines are just like the fabric of society, right? And they are sometimes helpful, but sometimes

But most of the time, they're very unhelpful, especially when the world has changed. So maybe the timeline made sense some time ago, but our timeline has not evolved with the way the world has evolved, right? And anytime you put a timeline on something, anytime you add an achievement marker to a timeline, you are going to become competitive.

And when we become competitive, we can either become really critical of other people or we can become critical of ourselves. And it really activates a lot of unhealthy paradigms like perfectionism, like, you know, comparing yourself to other people, internalized shame, internalized guilt, and

And while I didn't struggle with this at like a personal relationship level, I definitely struggled with it in a career way. I definitely wanted these like arbitrary timelines of like, I have to do this by then I have to do this by then. Um, and I think that that is very encouraged and celebrated and, you know, it's something you see everywhere. So it's a very hard thing to unlearn. Have you grappled with, with the idea of timeline and how, um,

can we and especially as women because it affects us way more as women because there is a biological clock ticking yeah how can we start to step out of that timeline a bit more and realize that that we're not behind because there's not not a finish line you know oh gosh yes that is a great question actually um

I think what I've learned, and the research also shows this, is when we are unaware of our own value system, we adopt other people's values. And the timelines are value systems, right? And what they do is they create this binary.

So in order to tap out of this timeline pressure, and we all know that we feel the timeline pressure, like that's not something we need to bring to awareness. What we have to realize is that we have, we want to see if there's an alternate way of living. And in order to feel very confident in your own timeline, you have to know your values.

And that is a lot of introspection. It's a lot of awareness work. It's a lot of therapy. If that's something that you can access, uh, if you can't access therapy, you can do it. There's a lot of great self-help books out there that can help you uncover your values. But if you can understand your values, then you can actually question the timeline that you're putting on yourself and it can help you see an alternate way of living.

Do you have an example of that with your own values, how that supported you with your timeline? Yeah. So my career thing was as I was writing this book, when I first contracted, I told them I was going to be done the manuscript in 10 months because I wanted this to be done before I was 35.

That is literally made up. Like there is no reason for me to, but I was just like in this mindset where I was like, this needs to be done before. I need to have this before. And yeah,

It was not going to happen. Like 10 months, nine months, eight months into writing this thing. I was like, there's no way. But this, the negative thoughts and the self-criticism that was in my mind was really affecting my writing. And I was not able to write and I was stuck. And my publishers were like, my editor was like, we need this. We need the manuscript. And I was like, all of this is garbage because I actually couldn't write anything.

And so I had to have a very tough love conversation with myself about, you know, what is getting in the way of me writing? Like, that's, that's the question I asked myself. Why can't I write this? What is going on? And that actually led me to this book.

realization that I was very upset that this was not going to happen before my 35th birthday. And I had to then sit down and really do an exploration around what that means for me. Why did I want this? And what is my ultimate goal? Is my goal to be a

young writer, not to say that over 35 is not young because it's not, but it's that indoctrination that we have as women. Right. And so I was confronted with a lot of that. And so I really had to sit down and realize that my value actually is in getting this message out. Cause one of the values of my life is, um,

sharing education. That's like a big driver for me. And I can go back into my life and think about many times where that's been like the core motivation for why I do something, because I do believe that people fundamentally should have the right to information that makes their life better. Once I got into that mindset, it didn't matter if I was doing this at 35 or 45, like it stopped holding that much importance over me.

And it took like two months of doing this and a lot of crying. And because you don't want to part with the ideas that you have in your head. You don't want to part with the image of this ideal. It almost feels like if you're an overachiever, it feels like a failure. And so you have to reframe that into this is just one plot point in a grander story of my life.

And I know that, you know, I think I answered this question in multiple ways, but truthfully, I think if you want to have a better relationship to productivity and your life goals, it really does begin with self-awareness. We have to unlearn all of the BS that we've been taught and push it aside. Yeah, it's interesting and definitely worth

we see this more as millennials. Yeah. Really, really feel this. And I think you could say like, as millennials, we are achieving more in a shorter timeframe than really ever before. The opportunities that we have are just absolutely phenomenal. When I think about what's available to me from a career perspective compared to my grandma, it's just completely different. Yes, we're having children later if we're having them and things like that, but we are achieving so much more. Yet, I think,

I think we are probably the most burned out and unfulfilled generation yet, which is so interesting because we often associate achievement with fulfillment. What do you think is happening there? This is like the most interesting paradox to me because I felt this and I did a lot of research on it because I was trying to understand myself. And I think the thing that I feel, this is my opinion in a sea of opinions is

is I don't think we're chasing the right things. The reason we feel so under fulfilled is because we are just in pursuit. We are in pursuit of the pursuit, what we want to chase. We want to move. We want that feeling of like forward movement and progress in some capacity in our life. I don't think we are chasing the things that we desire.

And that's because we don't know what we desire. Even when I work with clients, when I am practicing, and so most of my clients are millennial and Gen Z,

So many people don't know why they're doing what they're doing. So many people don't know why they pursued the career they pursued. They don't know why they are going on these aimless dates, but they're just doing it. And so what's happened is we've equated busyness with productivity because we're able to do so much more. And so now we can do so much more. So we have to do more, but no one is stopping to ask why.

And when you do, when you do stop, other people say, oh, you quit. Oh, you burnt out. So you just couldn't handle it. Oh, this is like, you just couldn't keep up with, there's a lot of negative connotation to just being present. You know, if someone is just present in the moment doing one thing and one thing alone, other people around you will think that there's something weird about you. And I see this in concerts, right?

If you're the person who doesn't have their phone up and you're not taking a video, other people are like, that's kind of weird. You could be in a crowd because what's happening is we're always trying to do multiple things at the same time. So yeah, we're at a concert, we're listening, we're enjoying, but I also want content for social media for the future. So now my mind is also in the future instead of just being here. And the person who's only watching the musician is completely present, but they are very rare.

And so I think that that's why we are so under fulfilled because we're not chasing our own goals. Yeah. And I think, I mean, that's been a huge part of my journey for sure. And when you mentioned the social media part, I think about entrepreneurship specifically and especially entrepreneurs who can work on social media. I mean, we can work 24 seven. There is no end to our work. It doesn't stop for me not creating content on weekends and taking weekends off.

I had to really train that in myself and really work with the idea that, yeah, just because I can doesn't mean I should. I get to take time off. Most people in their jobs have time off. But it's very, very hard as an entrepreneur when you know there is always more clients you can serve. There's always more money to be made. There's always more achievements to be had. So how as an entrepreneur do you find that balance and know when is enough good enough? Yeah. Yeah.

entrepreneur mental health is extremely important. And I, and I've worked with a few founders before, and I always say to them that your wellness is a line item on your budget, because if you're not well, your revenue is going to suffer. Eventually there is no other way.

There is just no, even if you have a co-founder, right? Even if you have a team, if you're not well, you will impact your revenue. So I think that's really important to think about, right? Because we think of our wellness and our rest as outside, as something we earn later. It's outside of our productivity. It's outside of my business plan. It's outside of me being a mom or a partner or whatever, right? But our wellness is actually integrated into our life.

like the fabric of our existence. And I think we need to start seeing it like that. The thing that I say, and I mean, I create digital content too. So I completely resonate with you. I'll say two things to this. One is don't be ashamed of the fact that you can't unplug because the algorithms are designed to map onto the way our brain works. Right. And so it

It is a very powerful system that keeps you going on online, right? And the algorithm is designed to punish you if you don't show up. So you could have like 1.4 million followers and take a break for a week and your engagement will tank. I think these are truths that we need to name. I mean, I'm not, the algorithm is an algorithm. It's just a machine, right? So don't be ashamed if you do have a hard time because once we put shame into the mix, it's very hard to break out of this mindset. The

The second thing I'll say is going into a business, building a business, it's really important to know a number where you are like, you know what? This is good. Like, I like this, like have this preemptive mindset of like a preventative mindset, right? Have a number in your mind there. You can say, this is actually good. Given the rest of my business, everything over this is a plus.

And if you're a small business and you're just starting, I would really encourage you to keep that number reasonable. Don't make it the number of profit.

Make it a number that is reasonable that you can project into growth. And that can really help you stay grounded in your habits. I have a secret announcement. We are working on something absolutely phenomenal for Black Friday. And here's the thing. You're only going to find out what this offer is if you're signed up to the Black Friday list.

Now, I do not do Black Friday deals for the whole of the month. It's very much going to land on Black Friday. And it's one of those things that you're really going to want to make sure you're on the waitlist for because your jaw is going to hit the floor when you hear what we're doing. It's wild. So what I want you to do is head to bossbabe.com forward slash Black Friday and get yourself signed up.

The thing that we are releasing on Black Friday has the potential to completely change the trajectory of your business to close out this year and for all of 2025. You have to be on the list. You won't hear about it if you're not. So head to bosswave.com forward slash Black Friday. I'll also put the link below so that you can jump on the list and make sure you're signed up ahead of Black Friday.

Yeah, I think that's absolutely essential. And I always say that to entrepreneurs is you have to know what your enough point is. And it's not to say that you can't, you know, I'm super ambitious and I, of course, want to grow, but not at the detriment to what I really care about. And so knowing your enough points essential because when you get to that point without awareness, you're

you'll just keep going. And I did that myself for so long. And it was just this like magic carpet ride of more until I realized, wait, I'm so far beyond my enough point, but I'm still working as if I'm not. And that was really fascinating because of course it takes more work in the beginning to get something off the ground.

but you shouldn't be working as though you're a scrappy startup when you've been at this for years. Like you have to learn how to regulate as your business grows. And evolve, you know, and I think that's something that, so a lot of people say to me, um,

They kind of like misconstrue or misunderstand my work as being anti-productivity. A lot of people ask me, well, why are you against productivity? Why are you talking about resting as though rest is the opposite of ambition? And it's not their fault, right? Like this is kind of how we're raised to think.

Um, and I say that, you know, if you can incorporate rust into your productivity, then you're going to have long-term productivity and there will be seasons of your life where you will have to operate in this like very, very diligent mindset.

There will be seasons of your life where you have to be on a lot. And that's not just at work. When you become a new mom, that is a season of your life, at least like postpartum, where you are on all the time. You are thinking all the time. There is no time for rest and you're just kind of like on the survival mode. When you start a new job or you might have a very short deadline that's coming up that's a really big deal for your business, there will be seasons.

But if you can have these seasons and those habits as exceptional, then you'll be able to show up so much better when the time calls for it. And so your baseline should be healthy productivity so that you can tap into this like hustle mindset when it's needed to. So you can kind of bump up your output or your, you know, the thing that you're chasing. I love this. And I love that you talk about bringing intentionality to it as well, because having that awareness and intentionality is sometimes all it takes, right?

I know for myself, when I got into that place where I realized, wait, I am so not doing this with intention. It's almost like I'm on autopilot. Just that awareness, it was like turning a switch on. I started to see things I couldn't unsee. So speaking of this, I love a good life audit. And something that you share is,

five necessary days that we should be scheduling every single month. So can you tell us what those are? Absolutely. And so the first one is having some time to kind of do financial audits, making sure your budget is okay, all of that stuff, because that's part of our wellness as well. Making sure you have time for that, where let's say like a big purchase is coming up or you have to buy airplane tickets or flight tickets.

Uh, things like that. Right. And then you want to have some time that's allocated to personal hygiene, maintenance, like things that make you feel good about yourself. So you're not like scrambling to get it done because there's like a, something happening or, you know, you have a party happening or whatever. Um, I love a good unplug day, like a detox day from all digital stuff.

Um, and then, uh, I think in there is also like having some, uh, like community days. I think that's what I call it, right? Like having some time with your friends and your family and just kind of being in connection with community. And the final one is like a self-care day, like a solo day, um, which is just kind of spending time with yourself where you're not doing anything. So it's not an errands day. The errands day falls under the hygiene personal personal errands day. Um,

This is like where you're just kind of hanging out with yourself. And I think that is the hardest one for people. I regularly go on solo dinners where I'm just by myself in a restaurant, no phone, sometimes a book, sometimes not depending on how I'm feeling. And when I tell people that they're literally aghast, people are just like, how do you eat dinner alone? Especially in a city like New York where everyone's out in big groups, people are, you know, there's dates happening and stuff.

But I think it's so important because if you can spend time with yourself without any external distraction, then you can tap into intentionality. You can tap into self-awareness. It's not scary, right? If you have the ability to, I would encourage everyone to take, even if it's a small trip, but a solo trip at least once in their life, if not annually, if they can swing it. And I do want to say that I talk about these as being days, right?

But given whatever your life is, adapt it to your life. It doesn't have to be a full day. Maybe it's a morning once a month. Maybe it's once a week on a Sunday for one hour. Whatever it is, adapt it to your life. But I think it's important to be mindful about these five buckets of things.

so good and I love the beauty one too because I remember for myself this was born out of postpartum and just like feeling feeling totally not myself at all I was like I need to create a rhythm for myself I need to know how often I'm getting my hair done how often I get my nails done facial like all the things I like and I need to just schedule my appointments out ahead of time so that you say you're not scrambling oh my goodness I've got something coming up I haven't had my brows done in like five months which listen if you have these brows you cannot go five months but I

Not scrambling and feel, and I know when I pre-book, it sounds small, but when I pre-book my appointments and my calendar and I protect them, I feel so much more on top of my shit. It makes the biggest difference. I recently started doing this and I was like, wait, this is a game changer because

because it lifted away that cognitive mental load that's like floating in our mind where you're like, oh, I have to do it. I have to do it. I have to do it. And, and I think like, even if like beauty routines are not part of your lifestyle, just having time for yourself on the calendar is life-changing. Um, I recently met somebody who said that they make meetings with themselves and

So it literally say like meeting with and their name on it, because it's a reminder that this is protected time. This is not time I can just give away to people because what happens is if you look at your calendar and there's an empty block, you're very likely to give that away. But if you block it out as like time for me or, you know, whatever, whatever you want to call it, if you see it in there, you're more likely to protect it. And I'm a huge fan of leveraging technology to make our lives easier. So if you can, uh,

pre-book ahead, like, you know, repeating calendar events with your brow salon or whatever every five weeks, just kind of have it in there. Automating deliveries if you can for essentials, if you're the kind of person who delivers things to their home, just kind of leveraging, like having the alarm on every day at the same time. So for a very long time, my husband, every night would be setting the alarm.

And I was like, what's going on? Like he'd be spending 10 minutes. He's kind of irritated because he's in bed. And I was like, why don't you just like have a daily alarm? You have to wake up the same time every day. Exceptionally, you can change it if something is happening, right? You can turn it off or on. And it was like, he was just like, oh my gosh, I never thought about that. Because we just don't think about changing these small habits in our life. This is such a game changer. Something I did this year that I'm like, why didn't I do this sooner was...

I would often like beauty products or supplements. You know, I would go to Sephora and I would try a bunch of different things and I would change things up when I ran empty or supplements. I'd go to a supplement store. This looks good. I feel like I need this right now. And earlier this year, I decided I am simplifying and automating as much as I possibly can just to take some of the load off. And so I decided these are the skincare products I'm going to use. I'm going to put them on repeat.

these are all the supplements I'm gonna use, I'm gonna put them on repeat. And what was amazing was firstly, I had so much less stuff around the house because I wasn't just buying, this looks good, I wanna try this. Oh, this influencer posted about this, I'm gonna try it. I didn't, I had a rule, no more of that. You stick with the things that you've got and just use them on repeat. And I did the same for my husband and now our supplements arrive. And I actually love the parallel one because they're in these individual packets, it arrives, I can throw them when I travel, I'm really consistent.

And what I noticed is if subscriptions come and I've got like extra, I'm like, okay, something's off. I'm not doing it consistently. I'm not on it. And it just reminds me to get back on it. Completely. I could not agree more with you because I do the same too. Everything is on auto that I just know that I need. And sometimes you get a discount if you're scheduling ahead of time, which is also nice. I love it. I love a good discount. Yeah.

Um, but yeah, it also reminds me, like if my new supplements have arrived and the old one are still there, I'm like, oh, I didn't, I didn't eat this.

Or even like household products, if you can automate that, it takes such a, especially for working moms, you know, trying to be like, oh, are we out of toilet paper? Do we have, you know, all these things, toothpaste? So if you are the kind of person who delivers stuff, absolutely, please look into getting it auto delivered at a specific, you know, time because it will take, it'll free up so much.

So for you as a therapist, let's say one of your clients comes to you and I'm going to describe what I think our general listener would say is,

I am an entrepreneur. I'm a mom to young children, a wife, you know, tick all the boxes. I'm all the things to everybody. And I'm so busy and I feel so stretched thin, but I feel like there's not many things I can take off my plate. Am I addicted to work? I don't know what it is that's underneath this. What would you say to that person? Where would you start with that person?

First, I would say that welcome to the club. I feel like this right now immensely because it's been a really busy season. So I want to say that I think it's very normal. I would first validate this feeling because what happens, especially with women, is when we struggle with something, we immediately internalize the blame for it.

I'm so busy. I must be disorganized. I'm so busy. I'm not good enough. I'm so busy. I'm not doing things the right way. I need to change. I need to improve. So we internalize that. But the truth is externally, a lot of things are probably happening in your life that are leading you to this. So it's not your fault, right? That's the first thing I would say to somebody. The second thing I would say is,

This is a hard one for a lot of, um, overachieving high stress jobs. Moms. This is a really hard one is asking yourself the question, what am I doing that somebody else can do? So what happens a lot is we have these standards of how things should be done. And if somebody doesn't do it like that, we don't think that that's good enough because

Even though if the outcome is the same, and I'll use a very trivial but impactful example, is loading and unloading the dishwasher. A lot of times women will take on that role because they have an idea very specifically. And of course, I'm generalizing here to gender roles and all of that. But a lot of women have very specific ideas about how the dishwasher must be loaded. So what that does is it prevents their partner from feeling confident in doing it.

So what happens is you become the default dishwash loader, right? And that's a task that you have to do. So I think that's a really big piece that we own is that we can be accountable for. Am I actually preventing from somebody help? Like, am I preventing someone from helping me?

Right. Is my perfectionism or my desire to have things done a right way, getting in the way of me receiving help. And can I let go of the process? If the outcome is the same, it doesn't matter how the dishes are loaded. If it comes out clean and the cupboards are full, it's

Is that okay? Can I be okay with that? And I would stretch that muscle first because when we are overcommitted and we are stretched thin, the truth is we are likely taking on more than we need to. And we believe that only I can do it well, only I can do it right. I don't want to be a burden on somebody else. Like they're not going to do it well anyway. So there's all this stuff going on in our mind. So that's the first thing I would do because what that's going to do is it's going to empty your time.

It'll give you some free time. Even if it's like cognitive time, it'll free something up for you so that you can start to shift towards a more intentional life.

Oh my goodness. This is so freaking true. I mean, I just am thinking back. I just had it as you arriving today, you know, you came in to my house, my toddler was having lunch and I looked over and I'm like, wait, that's not the lunch I would feed her. She's already had this today. And like all these things in my head as moms, we just constantly jumps in. And I just had to quickly remind myself that.

Someone else is taking care of that today. So you don't have to. Is it healthy? Is she fed? Is she happy? Yes, yes, yes. The outcome is the same. A happy fed baby. But my tendency is, well, I want it done my way and very specifically, right?

But just realizing that, just having the awareness of, okay, I'm feeling a certain way, but does it really need to be that way? Like, is she eating chicken nuggets? No, not that there's anything wrong with that, but no, like she's eating foods that you'd be happy with her eating. But it's so easy, I think as women, especially,

we're always just like around the home and with our kids, we're looking at everything. We're thinking of everything. And I talked to my husband about it. I'm like, do you think about those things? I notice those things. And he says sometimes, honestly, I don't have to because I know you do. I'm like, great. Love that for me. What you're describing is over-functioning.

right? And we definitely over-function a lot when we are trapped in this toxic productivity mindset. So there's all these myths that we start believing. One is only I can do it the right way. Two is other people are not competent enough.

Three is there's only one way to do something, right? So we start believing these myths that are pushing us towards the outcome, but I really want people to become more process oriented. Like you just did. You ask yourself three questions, right? What's the process? Okay. Well, she's fed. Uh, she looks happy. Right. And then, okay, cool. The process is something I can focus on. The outcome is the same. And I think that's really important. Um, over-functioning is celebrated in women, right?

If you ever watch like an 80s or 90s rom-com or even early 2000s, the main protagonist is always running around. She's on the phone. You know, she's trying to put her shoes on while getting out the door. And it's just constantly doing a lot because that is the model of the successful woman.

is the one who is over-functioning. And I think we need to dismantle that because women have chronic illnesses. We are burnt out. We are, you know, just leaving the workforce, like the work that we have worked so hard to, to get to, we are leaving the workforce because we are just not able to manage. And I think that's,

this book is not written for women, but I am a woman. So I feel this a lot and I'm very passionate about this. I think we have to dismantle this idea that women must over-function. That visual is so true. And I,

we really, I mean, for me, I'll just speak for myself. The, the conditioning of that was something that I've really had to work on and also just dismantle what we were talking about the beginning, but dismantling my worth from that over-functioning, like,

you know, I don't even know where it came from, but I had the idea that I was the best wife when I was doing the most and I was taking care of everyone and everything. And then at a certain point, I had to realize I'm the best wife when I'm the best version of myself. And it's sure as heck, not when I'm doing everything for everybody else and not myself. Yeah. It probably

came from messages you received at home, things you learned in school. If you've ever read any classic literature book, right? The woman who is independent is kind of frowned upon in society, even though she might be the protagonist, right? Like if you've read Little Woman, Jo, the sister, she's the one who wants to be a writer like, you know, in Victorian England, but she's kind of a

pariah. Or if you watch Bridgerton season two, Simone Ashley's character, she doesn't want to get married. She's the pariah, right? And so we learned very quickly that if we want to be accepted, we have to, we have to be the other characters, right? Even though we might want to be

you know, the independent one who is not taking care of everybody, we kind of default to that because it helps us feel more accepted. And I think that's also a really big myth is that if I do more, I will be accepted. I will have more belonging. And that is such a powerful driver towards both over-functioning and toxic productivity.

So then for someone who's listening and is just like, yes, that's me. Yes, that's me. Okay, let's get a roadmap put together. What are some steps for the person that feels like they haven't really even started scratching the surface of changing this, but they are having the awareness that it is them? Yeah. So diving into emotions is very scary. So if you've never scratched the surface, what I would recommend is kind of focus on your behaviorist.

Um, if you are a little self-aware, you've maybe gone to therapy or your journal or anything like that, um, then you can tap into your emotions first. But in general, what I would say is, I mean, we talked about this earlier, do a little bit of an audit, spend some time looking at your calendar, you know, three weeks before and see how many things you were saying yes to ask yourself how you felt about it. Ask yourself what would have happened if I didn't go or if I didn't do this thing and then commit to under committing. Yes.

one time in the next week. Just one thing, just hold yourself accountable and under commit. Um, just do one less thing.

And I think that that will kind of help you flex the muscle of, oh, wait, the world doesn't end if I didn't load the dishwasher this way. Or if I didn't, if I'm not the one who bought the birthday card and it wasn't my aesthetic, or if, or if I didn't have like an elaborate tablescape, or if I didn't get this, like one more, you know, brand opportunity or partnership, but just like what happens if that one thing didn't happen? It's likely not that big.

And so I think under committing is a really good way to get into it. If you're really trying to understand, um, the other thing that I would say is sometimes it's hard to stop unhealthy habits. It can be easier to layer in a healthier habit. So if you can't under commit, then commit to 10 minutes of doing nothing a week.

Like if you can't say no to stuff, then at least block off 10 minutes where you're not doing anything. No podcast, no personal development, no journaling, no music, nothing. You're just sitting. See if you can do that. And then kind of go from there, increase from there. And then the last thing I'll say for anybody is bring somebody in.

tell somebody, just tell the safest person you know that I think I'm burning out or whatever language you want to use. I don't want to over-function anymore. I don't want to be the eldest daughter syndrome anymore. Whatever it is, just bring somebody into the fold so that you can have a thought partner as you talk through stuff.

I love those. Okay, so can you walk me through your morning and evening routines? I want to know what yours looks like and how you're doing all the things and really being able to still stay within your window of...

not toxic productivity whatever what do we call non-toxic productivity healthy great how do we stay how do you stay within those that window of healthy productivity so I used to have a very unhealthy toxic relationship to morning routines because I had adopted this idea from other people that I had to wake up early I had to do morning pages I needed to do five different things in order to especially when I quit my job I quit my job at a startup and then I was like

This is it. Like I'm going to do all the things I was literally making my own turmeric and ginger shots. Like it was unsustainable. So I've kind of stripped all of that because it was not making me happy. And my current morning routine for the last three years, two years has been, um,

waking up 20 minutes early than my regular time. So knowing your body is really important. I'm not the kind of person who is very, um, optimal or I'm not very creative at 5.00 AM. That's just not who I am. And so I had to learn that. So I just wake up 20 minutes early than, you know, than I have to. And

And I have a very quiet morning. So I listen to music. I do my skincare. I definitely take time with that. And I'm listening to music. I'll do light stretching while brushing my teeth. So I'll do calf raises or I'll just kind of lift my leg and stretch it while brushing my teeth. And then my non-negotiable in the morning is to have breakfast and coffee with no email, no phone, no Instagram, nothing.

Maybe I'll watch like a very gentle show, like the Great British Baking Show is something I watch a lot. Or if David Attenborough has a new documentary on, you know, I'll usually watch stuff like that. That's very gentle. Or I'm just sitting in silence or listening to music. But there's no work happening.

That is like my morning routine. Like it is non-negotiable. Then I'll go work out and my day has started or then I'll open my laptop or I'll do something on Instagram. But that's, that's like absolutely non-negotiable. And I have a playlist for the morning. So that's been really helpful. And then what about your evenings?

So the evening routine, I think I, um, I'll be candid. I'm struggling with right now. And I'm saying this because I want people to know that we can set routines and things will happen and we fall off them. That is not a personal failure. It's just an indication that your life is out of balance. So when you feel that it's even more important to be intentional. So when I do have a really good morning, uh, evening routine, and I'm kind of working on that, trying to adjust to my new life right now.

Um, is again, very simple. Music is always a really big part of my morning and evening. Um, so I have an evening playlist, very gentle, very soothing instrumental. Um, either it's like Indian instrumental or jazz instrumental. I do love skincare with skincare girly. So I do a lot of that.

It's not a complex routine, but it's definitely there. And something that really helps regulate my nervous system is aromas. And I recently discovered this like maybe four years ago. So I always have like a candle or like an incense burning. And then I just kind of get into bed.

You know, I don't try to journal before bed. It doesn't work for me. It does work for some people. I don't try to read before going to sleep because I just want to kind of be, just be. I don't want to do anything. And I have become very intentional about cute PJs. So I grew up in a home where high school, you know, sports t-shirts, raggedy leggings, like you just kind of wore whatever to go to sleep.

And I think just building that small little thing of matching pajama sets has helped me just feel more in control. And I know it's like a small thing. Oh, I'm obsessed. Yeah. And I really got into it. So I was watching that show, that Christian Dior show that came out last summer about Dior's rise to the fashion house. It's a great show. But in that Coco Chanel is always wearing these like silk robes and silk nightgowns.

So I really got into that. All of my pajamas are like Victorian era like gowns and I have silk robes and like matching pajama sets. And it's just really helped me feel like a moment of calm and luxury right before going to bed. No, I love that. I'm so into pajamas. What brands do you love? There's this really cool one. It's called Ronnie. It's a South Asian owned Canadian brand. So they have really nice, you know, ethnic prints.

Um, and then, gosh, I can't even remember any other, that's the most recent one I got. So top of mind. Skincare, your skin's amazing. Thank you. What are we using? Oh my God. I love this question. I could talk about this forever. Um, okay. So I'm a big fan of prescription retinol. So I, I've been using that for four or five years, uh, a derm, you know, they prescribe it. And so that is a key foundation to my skincare. Uh,

Um, and then vitamin C I've definitely invested in a solid one that works for my skin. So it's been a lot of trial and error. Um, so retinol and vitamin C are cornerstone and then hydration cause I have dry skin.

So hyaluronic or just a very, very thick like ceramide cream. I use Dr. Jart's Ceramidine. None of this is sponsored if anybody wants to know. And finally, like my night cream is the old school Nivea. The blue tin that my mom has been using forever.

And it transformed my skin. I think I just needed that extra hydration. It's a very like simple product. There's not a lot going on in there. So I think nighttime, that's perfect for me.

And what else? Oh, I also use this really great serum. It's called the Molecular Hero Serum. It's a morning serum. It helps with hyperpigmentation. So if you are like a brown skin, dark skin girl, like hyperpigmentation is a big issue. And it really has helped me. I mean, I didn't believe that it would when I was recommended it by my derm. And I use it, she was like, just use it for three months. And I use it consistently. And I need less color corrector now.

I love that. Oh, I put in a little bag that I gave you my skincare supplement Glossy. You're going to love it. It actually has high dose vitamin C and hyaluronic acid and a bunch of other good things that you can put in your water. It's amazing. What about cleansers? Do you have favorite cleansers? Yes, absolutely. I love Indie Lee. Their strawberry cleanser is so good for me, but I double cleanse because sunscreen and makeup.

Um, the Osca one, I don't know if I'm like saying it wrong, but it's O S K I A. Oh yeah. They have a gentle bomb. And right now I'm using Sahajan's, uh,

makeup cleanser and it has turmeric in it and it's so good so good I'm a big fan of turmeric like in general um but it's really really good I love it I love talking skincare because I feel like when you find a product that's just so good you want to tell everyone about it yeah I do want to say one little thing though um I think skincare is really it it helps it's

But I noticed that when I'm not drinking enough water and I'm not sleeping well, it shows on my skin. And so I think that's something I want to say is a really big part of healthy skincare is a healthy life. And of course we can't do everything. So my thing, even for productivity habits, for skincare, for exercise, for anything is 80, 20.

aim for like an 80% success rate. And 20% of the time, it's okay if you're kind of like not there. So 80% of the time, try to get to bed on time. 80% of the time, eat well. 80% of the time, hydrate yourself. You know, you might not always be able to. So I think like a foundation for good skin is eating and drinking well, like water, not other things.

Yeah, I agree. I definitely cannot skincare myself out of a bad night's sleep. No. I wish I could. Oh my gosh, can I share one last thing? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I will be mindful of time. But facial ice baths really helped me. Oh, wait, like you put ice in the sink? How do you do it? I have a really deep wide bowl and I put it on the counter. I fill it with ice, add some water, let it kind of let the ice float to the surface.

And then I put on a timer and I do like two 15 second sessions or three 10 second sessions, depending on how I'm feeling. I don't do it every day, but I do do it pretty regularly and it really helps. It actually also helps regulate your nervous system.

Yeah. So it's a, it's a strategy that we recommend to people who might have panic disorder or people who have really dysregulated nervous systems can get very emotional is changing your temperature, like your body temperature by putting ice on the back of your neck or inside of your wrist, or actually just dunking your face in ice.

It is a nervous system reset immediately because it activates your diver's reflex. So your body, even though your body is safe, but your face is underwater, your mind thinks you're drowning. So it just immediately resets your nervous system. And so you, when you come back up, you are in a, in a much better state.

So it's very helpful. I have a cold plunge just out there. And when I was really struggling with postpartum anxiety, I would jump in the cold plunge and do breath work. And I would get out feeling like a new woman. That's exactly why. Because it's resetting your nervous system. And if you don't want a cold plunge, you can also do a cold shower. These are just like really great management techniques. They don't treat anything, but they're great management techniques. And it's also good for your skin. Yeah.

I love it. Well, listen, tell everyone where they can grab your book and find you. So my book is available on Amazon, Target, Walmart, Barnes and Noble, essentially everywhere you get books. You can go to my website. There's a book page. As soon as you land, it's trinaster.com. Everything is in there. A lot of other resources are in there. Like if you get it before publishing, which is November 19th,

You get like two free chapters, a worksheet, a reading guide, and then a book club with me. So I really want to like have people come in and like chat about what they felt with the book. And you can find me on my website and on my Instagram. And what's your Instagram? It's at well.guide. Amazing. Okay, I'm going to put all those links below. The book is Toxic Productivity. Amazing. I'll put all the links. Thank you so much. This was such a fun conversation. Yeah, it was. Thank you for having me.

Wait, wait, wait, before you go, I would love to send you my seven figure CEO operating system completely free as a gift.

gift. All you've got to do is leave us a review on this podcast because it really supports the growth of this show. This is my digital masterclass where I'll show you what my freedom-based daily, weekly, and monthly schedule looks like as an eight-figure CEO, mama, and high performer, and I'll walk you through step-by-step how to create this for yourself. It includes a full video training from me,

and a plug and play spreadsheet to literally create your own operating system. It's one of our best trainings and it's worth $1,997, but I will unlock access for you for free when you leave us a review. I know, wild, right?

All you have to do is leave your review on the podcast, take a screenshot of it, and then head over to bossbabe.com slash review to upload it. And then you'll get instant access to the seven-figure CEO operating system. Again, head over to bossbabe.com slash review to upload your screenshot and get access. We are so, so grateful for all of your support and can't wait to hear how the podcast has supported you.