cover of episode Russia says Ukraine has launched long-range American missiles into its territory

Russia says Ukraine has launched long-range American missiles into its territory

2024/11/19
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A
Andrew Peach
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Carlin Jones
C
Celia Hatton
D
Danny Eberhard
D
David Seymour
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Katie Watson
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Laura Bicker
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Mike Emsley
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Natalie Cabral
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Nathan Law
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Rehan Dimitri
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Victoria
Topics
Andrew Peach: 我报道了莫斯科称乌克兰用美国导弹袭击俄罗斯领土的新闻。 Danny Eberhard: 俄罗斯国防部称乌克兰发射了6枚美国制造的导弹,其中5枚被击落。乌克兰方面没有正式承认,但乌克兰媒体援引消息人士称确实使用了导弹。这一事件可能导致更多此类袭击,俄罗斯此前曾警告过此事。普京还签署了俄罗斯核战略的修改,这意味着如果一个非核国家在袭击俄罗斯时得到一个核国家的援助,这将被视为联合袭击。 Alina: 由于哈尔科夫的日常轰炸,我决定带着家人逃往波兰。 Natalia Karapata: 许多学生遭受创伤,对突然的声音有反应。 Bujar Chodzha: 乌克兰危机正在被遗忘,对难民的需求巨大。 Oksana Kolesnik: 这所学校每年运营成本接近200万美元,如果没有资金,学校将无法生存。 Victoria: 我热爱欧洲生活,但仍想回到乌克兰重建家园。 Fatima Zamin: 哈塞克市缺水严重,依靠水车运水。土耳其对电力设施的袭击对哈塞克市的供水造成了致命打击。电力在取水中起着重要作用,这次袭击是对平民的袭击。 Ahmed Al-Hamad: 水比黄金还珍贵。 Christopher Giles: 土耳其在叙利亚东北部的行动可能构成违反国际法。 Nathan Law: 香港的政治镇压非常严重。 Celia Hatton: 45名民主活动家因组织2020年未经授权的初选而被判刑。香港法院认为这些非正式选举是推翻政府权威的计划的一部分。北京已经对香港施加了影响力,巩固了其权力。长期活动家“长毛”在法庭声明中表示,尽管面临困难,他仍然会继续为民主和社会正义而斗争。 Mike Emsley: 澳大利亚大堡礁北部地区的珊瑚覆盖率大幅下降,主要原因是热应力和两次飓风。珊瑚白化是由海水温度升高引起的压力反应。如果温度没有迅速下降,珊瑚就会死亡。 Laura Bicker: 湖南省发生一起车辆冲撞小学生的事件,造成多人受伤。今年中国发生了一系列个人对社会不满的袭击事件。 Rehan Dimitri: 格鲁吉亚首都第比利斯警方与抗议者发生冲突,抗议者谴责上个月的议会选举舞弊。 Katie Watson: 新西兰成千上万的人参加了抗议集会,反对一项可能修改《怀唐伊条约》的法案。抗议者认为,修改《怀唐伊条约》会损害毛利人的权利。David Seymour认为这项法案是为了平等对待所有新西兰人,而不是给予毛利人特殊待遇。 Carlin Jones: 《怀唐伊条约》为包容差异和多样性提供了一个有用的模式。 Natalie Cabral: 我们正处于寻找地外生命的黄金时代。对地外生命的搜寻是人类中心主义的。在太阳系中,不太可能存在先进的技术文明;寻找地外生命应该关注系外行星。寻找系外行星生命的良好指标是发现人工合成的分子。寻找地外生命有助于我们理解人类自身。我们对宇宙的认识改变了我们对自身和宇宙的认知。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why did President Biden reverse his ban on long-range American missiles for Ukraine?

The specific reasons for the reversal are not detailed in the transcript, but it enabled Ukraine to launch a retaliatory attack against Russia.

What was the Russian response to Ukraine's missile attack on Bryansk?

Russia's Ministry of Defence quickly reported the incident, stating that six American-made Atakams missiles were fired, with five shot down and one causing a fire at a military facility.

How did Ukraine's President Zelensky address the ongoing conflict with Russia?

Zelensky praised the resilience of the Ukrainian people and emphasized their refusal to submit to Russian aggression, addressing the European Parliament via video link from Kyiv.

What are scientists looking for when searching for extraterrestrial life?

Scientists are seeking signs of 'pollution' or synthetic molecules that indicate someone is altering their environment, similar to human activity. They also look for technosignatures like messages or laser light signals.

How has the perception of our place in the universe changed with recent discoveries?

Discoveries like those by Copernicus and Kepler have shifted our understanding, showing that we are not the center of the universe and that there are countless planets orbiting stars, fundamentally changing our self-perception.

Chapters
Russia claims Ukraine attacked Bryansk with American missiles, marking the first time Ukraine has used these long-range weapons since restrictions were lifted. The incident has heightened tensions and prompted a response from Russia.
  • Six American-made Atakams missiles were fired, with five shot down and one causing a fire at a military facility.
  • Ukraine has not officially confirmed the use of these missiles, but Ukrainian media sources suggest they were used.
  • Russia has warned of a tangible response to such attacks and updated its nuclear doctrine to consider joint attacks from non-nuclear states assisted by nuclear states.

Shownotes Transcript

Translations:
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I'm Andrew Peach and at 14 hours GMT on Tuesday the 19th of November, these are our main stories. Moscow says Ukraine has launched long-range American missiles into Russian territory. Lengthy jail terms are handed down by a court in Hong Kong to 45 pro-democracy activists. And more clashes in Georgia between the police and opposition protesters who believe last month's elections were stolen.

Also in this podcast... We are thinking about life in the universe as if aliens were thinking like us, building the same things as we are. What have we learned after decades of searching for extraterrestrial life?

First to Russia, where the government in Moscow says a Ukrainian attack on the region of Bryansk was carried out with long-range American missiles. The first time Ukraine has fired these long-range weapons across the border since President Biden reversed his ban on doing so. Our Europe regional editor Danny Eberhard told me more.

Well, the Russian Ministry of Defence says that six American-made Atakams missiles were fired and five of those, it said, were shot down and fragments of a sixth fell on a military facility causing a fire which it said was quickly put out.

They reacted with amazing speed. Usually these incidents, the Russian Ministry of Defence does not really comment at all, or if it does, it comes much later. It's intriguing. And what's happened on the Ukrainian side, the Ukrainian side officially has not attributed it to a use of attack as missiles. The Ukrainian general staff said that an ammunition warehouse in Bryansk, near a town called Karachiv, was hit, but it didn't say what weapons it used.

But Ukrainian media, speaking to military sources in Kiev, have said that attackers' missiles were indeed used. So everything is pointing that direction at the moment. Ukraine's wanted to be able to do this for two years, and the Biden administration changed its mind about it in the last few days. Will we be sensible to expect more attacks of this sort, that being the case?

Well, we certainly would if it is indeed confirmed between now and the time that President Trump is inaugurated on the 20th of January. But it's a highly contentious area. Russia has warned against this. It's promised a tangible response were such attacks to be carried out.

And today, President Putin of Russia has signed a pre-agreed change in Russia's nuclear doctrine, which would mean that a non-nuclear state being assisted by a nuclear state in an attack on Russia, that would be considered a joint attack. Europe regional editor Danny Eberhard. The missile attack comes as Ukraine marks a thousand days since Russia started its full-scale invasion.

President Zelensky praised the resilience of his people and said they'd never submit to Russian aggression. On Tuesday, he addressed the European Parliament via video link from Kyiv. Together, Ukraine, all of Europe and our partners in America and around the world, we have succeeded not only in preventing Putin from taking Ukraine, but also in defending the freedom of all European nations.

Even with North Korea's Kim Jong-un, but by his side, Putin remains smaller than the United States of Europe.

Among the worst affected by the Russian invasion of Ukraine are children of school age experiencing displacement and disrupted education. Millions of Ukrainians fled the country with around a million ending up in neighbouring Poland. In the early days of the invasion a school was set up in Warsaw to help Ukrainian children adjust to life in a new country and two and a half years on it's still going. My colleague Anastasia Gibronova of BBC Ukraine has been talking to children, parents and teachers there.

It's early morning and 16-year-old Victoria is getting ready for school here in Warsaw. Two and a half years ago, Victoria fled the war in Ukraine with her mother, sister and pets. For Victoria's mother Alina, daily bombings of their home city of Kharkiv had become too much.

She made the decision to take her family to Poland, a country which gave refuge to a huge number of Ukrainians. We thought we'd return to our home city Kharkiv in three days. Then we realized things were going from bad to worse there.

One major task for Alina was finding the right school for Victoria. Three weeks later, we discovered that a Ukrainian school was opening in Warsaw. At first, the kids were in tears. They wanted to go back home to their friends. They didn't want to go to school here. But now, Victoria enjoys her new school.

We study in two educational systems with Polish and Ukrainian programs. We have classes in two languages in almost all subjects, and when we graduate we will get both Polish and Ukrainian certificates. The school was set up by Polish NGOs to help Ukrainian refugees. There are 300 students here now and around 30 teachers.

Many pupils are living with trauma, says the school's psychologist Natalia Karapata. Our children used to react to sudden sounds. There was a tram line nearby and they would duck under their desks.

Or they would wear their gloves and hats and during break would keep their rucksacks on their backs, worrying they would need to run and take cover. A survey by an international NGO Save the Children found that 9 out of 10 Ukrainian children suffer from psychological and emotional stress. Over 70% feel unsafe or fearful. Save the Children is one of the agencies supporting the Ukrainian school in Warsaw.

Bujar Chodzha is response director for Seder Children Poland. The highest influx of refugees since the World War II ended. The needs are massive. Ukraine, unfortunately, despite the war, despite the victims, despite the families that are fleeing every day at the border, is becoming one of those forgotten crises. The school's future is far from certain.

Principal Oksana Kolesnik says it costs close to $2 million a year to run. If there is no money, it will be a very painful blow to our community because without financial support, the school cannot survive. According to the UN, 10 million people have left Ukraine since the start of the full-scale invasion, many of them women and children.

For now, there is no end in sight for this war. But some of these children dream of going back home one day. I really love life in Europe, but I don't feel at home. But I know I can feel at home now in Ukraine too, because I live a lot of time in Poland, so now I'm divided between countries. But I want to go back, I want to rebuild Ukraine, I want to help my country.

And that report was from Anastasia Gibradova. While the world is watching Russia's war against Ukraine, and especially the missile and drone attacks on civilian infrastructure, which have left people without power or clean water, the BBC has discovered similar attacks being carried out by Turkey in its conflict with the Kurds, specifically in the Kurdish-controlled regions of Syria.

repeated airstrikes that have cut off access to water and electricity for more than a million people, creating a humanitarian crisis and possibly violating international law. Nama Khoshno reports. With large blue bottles in their hands, a group of women crowd around the water tanker. It's the first delivery of water to their neighbourhood for days, and it's their only source of water.

Fatima Zamin is the council worker who organised today's delivery. We delivered one tanker here and we gave them water. The children, the women, they're very happy. But this area is just a drop in an ocean of misery. That's because the whole of this city, Hasaka, has no running water. Its one million residents rely on a fleet of tankers to bring water to them from nearby wells.

Ahmed Al-Hamad is one of the tanker drivers. I can't cope with the demand, but I'm trying to help people. People need more water because the weather is very hot, but they can't get enough water. Here, water is more precious than gold. Honestly, it's more precious than gold.

The water crisis here has two main drivers. First, climate change has caused years of drought, but then conflict made things worse. In recent years, Turkey has been bombing this part of Syria. They accused a Kurdish militant group called the PKK of operating out of the region, fighting against the Turkish government.

In October 2023 and January 2024, Turkey bombed the main power station providing electricity to the region. This impacted the water plant supplying Hasaka, and the city's water has been completely cut off since. Here is council worker Fatima Zamin again. When the Turkish government attacked our electricity facilities, it dealt a fatal blow to us.

electricity plays a big role in the extraction of water. This attack is an assault on the civilian population.

BBCI analysed data relating to 100 attacks between 2019 and 2024. We have verified that multiple Turkish attacks damaged oil fields, gas facilities and power stations in north-east Syria. We showed our findings to legal experts. Here's Christopher Giles from our investigations team. We took this to two international human rights lawyers.

And they reviewed this evidence. And they told us that the Turkish actions in northeast Syria may constitute a violation of international law. One of our lawyers said that the indications that international law may have been violated is so strong that they should be investigated by a court.

We put our findings to the Turkish government. They told us that they have a right of self-defense against the PKK, that they observe international humanitarian law and that civilian safety is their main priority. For now, the civilians of Hasaka continue their daily struggle to get the water they need to survive.

And that was Namak Koshnoor of the BBC Eye Investigations team. Next to Hong Kong, where a court has sentenced 45 pro-democracy activists to prison terms of up to 10 years. Their trial marks the largest use of the harsh national security law which China imposed on Hong Kong shortly after pro-democracy protests in 2019. In response, a spokesperson for the Chinese Foreign Ministry said no one should be allowed to use democracy as a pretext to escape the law.

Nathan Law is one of the leading pro-democracy figures who now lives abroad. This really shows how severe the political crackdowns and political suppression is in Hong Kong, and Hong Kong has become a strange place for many people. It's barely recognisable with that news. We marched down to the street, we helped put protests together. Joshua Wong, one of the most iconic young activists in Hong Kong. We worked together for many, many years. We were both

student leader in the Umbrella Movement in 2014. He helped me get elected in 2016 and then we went to jail together in 2017. So we've been through a lot. I asked our Asia-Pacific editor Celia Hatton what the 45 activists had actually done.

You have to go back to July 2020. So about a year after we saw those huge street protests that you referred to before. And that's when the pro-democracy camp decided to really start to get organized. And they organized unofficial primary elections. They wanted to join forces and choose the

best pro-democracy candidates to run in legislative elections that were scheduled for later that year. Now, they were warned by the authorities that a law that had been put in place just two weeks before these unofficial primaries meant that these unofficial elections would be illegal. But they went ahead with them anyway.

way, reasoning that actually under Hong Kong's basic law, its own little mini constitution, these elections were actually completely legal. Now, what the pro-democracy camp wanted to do was to do so well in the legislative elections that they would have more than half the seats

That would allow them control of the budget. And they thought that would allow them to force the Beijing-backed chief executive of Hong Kong to resign. Now, instead, many of those people were arrested. We've now seen them be found guilty and sentenced. And the court said that actually those informal elections were part of a plan to achieve political change that would have undermined the government's authority.

And that's really what's key here. Who is really in charge in Hong Kong? And we've now seen Beijing really put its stamp on Hong Kong and really assert its power over the pro-democracy movement. Hong Kongers are being urged to raise questions.

about the case, which seems ironic on a day when it seems clear that doing so could land you in jail. That's right. So two of the people acquitted in the trial, there were originally 47 arrested. The two who were acquitted have urged people in Hong Kong to keep fighting the good fight, basically. And you're right, it is very difficult in Hong Kong right now. That national security law that I referred to has basically shut down many forms of political opposition within Hong Kong.

But I will say that the Hong Kong people, all those people who participated in those street protests just a few years ago, many of them are still living in Hong Kong. It's a very creative, very well-educated territory. And so there's still a lot of people questioning Beijing's authority.

You know, some of the court statements that we saw among those 45 people who've been sentenced today are also very telling. So, for example, one man named Long Hair, he's a longtime activist inside Hong Kong. He was one of those sentenced today to six years and nine months. His court statement says,

He referred to the fact that he is an older man now. He's 67. And he says, I have never given up. For nearly 50 years, my black hair has turned white. My long hair has turned short. A free man has been unjustly detained. But I still act with this faith to fight for democracy and social justice. So, yes, it's much more difficult now, Andrew. But I think that the pro-democracy movement is still there in a latent way. Asia-Pacific regional editor, Senior Hatton.

After record growth of corals was recorded at the Great Barrier Reef off Australia two years ago, the latest surveys suggest the northern parts of the world's largest coral reef system have suffered a significant decline. Researchers say much of the damage was caused by heat stress as well as two cyclones. The research leader of the Australian Institute of Marine Science is Dr Mike Emsley, who's been talking to Tim Franks.

We've just started our 40th year of doing surveys and the first trip was around Lizard Island and a bit north of Cairns as well. And around Lizard Island...

Sector-wide, we've seen a decline of 38% of coral cover that was there prior to the bleaching event. And similarly, in the Cairns area, we're talking about a loss of about a third of the coral cover that was there prior to the summer's bleaching event. So fairly substantial losses, very serious losses, and really highlighting the serious nature of the effects of climate change on coral reefs.

Yeah, you mentioned this mass bleaching event that happened in the last Australian summer. Tell me what in particular do you think has prompted the bleaching and then the die-off? Yeah, so the causes of coral bleaching, it's a stress response of the corals to elevated sea surface temperatures. Basically, the cause is that a buildup of heat accumulates over the summer and causes

When you get a long enough period of elevated sea temperatures, it causes the corals to stress and they actually live in close association with an algae inside their tissues. These algae supply a lot of the energy for the corals. But when the temperatures reach a certain threshold, the relationship actually turns toxic. The algae start releasing toxins into the corals and the corals' response then is to expel the algae out.

So the corals then only have a fairly limited window of time that they can survive without the symbiotic algae inside them. And if temperatures are not reduced in a quick enough amount of time, these corals will actually then go on to die. And that's exactly what we've seen has been the outcome of the mass coral bleaching event in 2024, the Austral summer event.

And that was Dr Mike Emsley from the Australian Institute of Marine Science. Still to come on this podcast, tens of thousands protest in New Zealand against a bill that would overhaul the country's founding treaty between Britain and the Maori people.

A search for the truth behind an international drug smuggling plot. There's something on this boat. A tin of cocaine. There was a lot of adrenaline. I couldn't believe what was happening. And the man Brazilian police believe to be at its centre. Fox. Fox. Fox got the shots. From the BBC World Service, this is World of Secrets. Season 5, Finding Mr Fox. Search for World of Secrets wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

In China in recent months, there's been a series of mass attacks by individuals with personal grievances against society. In the latest one, a vehicle was driven into a crowd of primary school children in Hunan province. More from our China correspondent, Laura Bicker.

What we know so far from social media and from speaking to some parents who were taking their children to school is that there was incredible panic, that there were several parents and children lying on the road and injured, that the ambulances, they told us, arrived very fast.

but it does seem that parents and security officials at the school managed to pin down the driver as they awaited police. We are told that that driver is currently in custody. But this is the third attack on a crowd in

in China in one week. On Saturday, eight people were killed and 17 others were injured in a knife attack at a school in eastern China. And that is said to have been a 21-year-old who was upset at his exam results. And last Monday, a driver rammed into crowds outside a sports centre, killing 35 people and injuring more than 40 others. That was the deadliest attack in

that they've seen here in China in just about a decade. That driver was apprehended and it's said that he was upset at his divorce settlement. There have been a spate of incidents right throughout the year, making it one of the highest number of incidents in the last six years of people attacking crowds in China.

Police in the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, have again clashed with protesters who've condemned last month's parliamentary elections as stolen. Opposition supporters say police arrested demonstrators who'd set up a protest camp near the Tbilisi State University. Rehan Dimitri reports.

At dawn on Tuesday, security police began aggressively detaining peaceful protesters, dragging them to police vehicles. Large numbers of police approached the area by Tbilisi State University to clear it of barriers, vehicles and benches which opposition protesters used to block off the street.

This was the latest in a series of actions organized by the country's opposition against the results of October 26 parliamentary election. Officially, the ruling party Georgian Dream won the election, but its opponents, including the country's pro-Western president, have accused the government of widespread violations.

New Zealand has seen one of its biggest protests in years after at least 40,000 people turned out for a rally in Wellington over a controversial bill that threatens to overhaul the country's founding document drawn up in 1840 between the Maori people and the British colonisers. The bill has divided a country often seen as a leader for indigenous people's rights even though it's unlikely to pass. Let's get more from Katie Watson who's in Wellington.

Thousands of people are marching towards Parliament. This is the end of a nine-day hikoi, or peaceful march, which started in the northernmost tip of the North Island of New Zealand, and they've been making their way down to the capital. Many people are dressed in black, white and red, the colours of the Maori community, and they're talking about unity and love and honouring the Maori people here in New Zealand.

Arriving at the Beehive, New Zealand's parliament building, the message was loud and clear. Mess with the Treaty of Waitangi and you're messing with the rights of the Maori people, say the demonstrators, the first inhabitants of this land they call Aotearoa.

The crowds kept coming. Throughout the day, spontaneous hackers broke out. Maori war cries rallying supporters to do battle with a government they say is undermining them. We're safer together, really. That's what gives Parliament its right to operate. When the scales sort of get tipped out, everybody's in danger, not just Maori. Let's not forget about all the people who aren't making a noise, who aren't trying to undermine Parliament. For David Seymour, who's introduced this plan, those protesting don't represent most New Zealanders.

He says it's about treating everyone here as equals rather than giving special treatment to Maori. What my treaty principles bill says that I, like everybody else, whether their ancestors came here a thousand years ago like some of mine did or just got off the plane at Auckland International Airport this morning to begin their journey as New Zealanders, have the same basic rights and dignity as human beings.

Culture, language, all flows out of that foundation of equal rights. It's a view that does have support in wider New Zealand. I don't really know what the Maori are arguing about. I think we're all one person, we're all New Zealanders. They seem to want more and more and more and we just have to all work together.

Well, I think all New Zealanders should be equal. We've got people from many different countries of the world living in this country. And we're pretty good too. It's a pretty good country to live in. But experts in Maori law dispute this way of thinking. Dr. Carlin Jones is from Victoria University in Wellington.

The Treaty of Waitangi is an agreement between Māori communities and government, and so it sets up that particular relationship. But it also provides a really useful model for thinking about ways of accommodating difference and diversity, ways of drawing on having different voices involved in decision-making. And those are models which aren't just applicable to Māori, but can be expanded to all kinds of other disciplines,

different communities of interest and I think if you're unwilling to take that step of engaging with Māori then I think it's very unlikely that as a government you'd be willing to engage or think about how to accommodate difference in other kinds of circumstances.

The strength of emotion was clear last week when this happened. A Maori MP taking a stand in a traditional way. That led to the suspension of Parliament and began a broader conversation about minority rights.

Katie Watson in New Zealand. Finally, a question you'll have heard many times, is there life beyond our universe? Now, I can't pretend we've got the answer, but one organisation at the forefront of the search is the SETI Institute. That stands for Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. On Wednesday, it celebrates its 40th anniversary. And to mark that, my colleague Amal Rajan spoke to the French-American astrobiologist Natalie Cabral. She says this is a golden age in the search for extraterrestrial life.

When you think that maybe 60 years ago, all we knew about space, about galaxies, about planets and stars came from ground-based telescopes. And in a span of a few decades, we've come to know our solar system like our backyard.

Only 20 years ago, 15 years ago, we just discovered that our solar system is just one out of many. It's a completely pure perspective on our place in the universe and the potential for life out there. But remember, whether it's looking at the origins of life or looking at the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, it's very anthropocentric.

So we're thinking about life in the universe as if aliens were thinking like us, building the same things as we are. And if we did find, if we did encounter something that we call life, whatever life may in fact be,

Where do you think it's most likely? What are the areas that we've discovered through perhaps the James Webb telescope that would give us an indication of where we ought to be looking? In the solar system, it's not going to be an advanced technological civilization. Beside us, we know that if there is life in the solar system, it's going to be microbial. Exoplanets are tricky because they are far away. We can access the information only remotely, which means by spectroscopy and looking through their atmosphere remotely.

A good indication for exoplanets would be if we were going to find a synthetic molecule or something that cannot be only created by the environment only. Basically, what we are looking for is pollution, something that says to us

that somewhere someone is messing with their environment in the same way that we are. And then the technosignature, one could be messages. And that's why we're listening. There could be laser light signals as well. And there could be also...

the type of message we have no clue about. Maybe this message is already all around us, but we don't have the technology yet. And in the end, what this search does is it helps us understand what it is to be human, doesn't it? It makes us realize that, you know, life and civilization on this blue marble dangling in the infinite blackness is an extraordinarily precious thing. All

All the questions that we are directed towards the universe or towards the solar system are in fact a reflection of the questions that we have about ourselves. And what we are learning doing this journey is really about what habitability means, what our environmental threshold, what it takes to keep a planet habitable.

Basically, we are learning what it is to be a planetary citizen. And compared to when you started out in this field a few decades ago, are you feeling more optimistic or less optimistic that we will find information that suggests that we are not alone? I like the few decades ago you.

Copernicus told us that we are not the centre of the solar system in the universe. And Kepler is telling us not only we are not that, but we are one out of many, many solar systems out there. Every time you look at the star, there is a planet, at least one, orbiting around it. And that changes completely the way we are perceiving ourselves and the way we are perceiving the universe around us. The astrobiologist Natalie Cabral.

And that's all from us for now. There'll be a new edition of Global News to download later. If you'd like to comment on this edition, drop us an email, globalpodcast at bbc.co.uk, or you'll find us on X, where we are at Global News Pod. This edition was mixed by Sarah Kimberley. The producer is Oliver Burlough. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Andrew Peach. Thank you for listening. And until next time, goodbye.

Hello, I'm Simon Jack. And I'm Zing Zing. And together we host Good Bad Billionaire, the podcast exploring the minds, the motives and the money of some of the world's richest individuals. Every episode we pick a billionaire and we find out how they made their money. And then we judge them. Are they good, bad or just another billionaire? Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts.