Episode 385: Dr. Anurag Singh: Benefits of Urolithin A for Anti-Aging, Athletes, Muscle Strength, and Skin Health
45:51 Share

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it! Before we dive into today's episode, I first want to thank our sponsor, Therasage. Their TriLight panel has become my favorite biohacking thing for healing my body. It's a portable red light panel that I simply cannot live without. I literally bring it with me everywhere I go. And I personally use their red light therapy to help reduce inflammations in places that

in my body where, honestly, I have pain. You can use it on a sore back, stomach cramps, shoulder, ankle. Red light therapy is my go-to. Plus, it also has amazing anti-aging benefits, including reducing signs of fine lines and wrinkles on your face, which I also use it for. I personally use Therasage

Trilight, everywhere and all the time. It's small, it's affordable, it's portable, and it's really effective. Head over to therasage.com right now and use code BEBOLD for 15% off. This code will work site-wide. Again, head over to therasage, T-H-E-R-A-G-E,

A-S-A-G-E dot com and use code BeBulled for 15% off any of their products.

All right, so the first thing I'm going to just introduce my guest today. It's Dr. Anurag Singh. Perfect. Yeah, you got it. Yay. Okay, good. I'm glad I did that properly. Who is both an MD and a PhD, right, in immunology, who's with me from Switzerland. That's correct.

and who has some fascinating and very exciting research and information that he's going to share with us today. That's why I really wanted to have you on because what we're going to talk about is something, a compound that I don't really hear much about ever. And I've been taking something, it's called MitoPure by a company called Timeline that you're actually the chief medical officer for. And it

it's a real game changer in the compound what we're going to get into. So let me just say, start by saying thank you very much, Dr. Singh, for being on the podcast. Pleasure is mine, Jen. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Can you just kind of tell our audience before we kind of dive into all the science stuff, like a little bit more about your background? Sure. So I'm a trained internal internist, so internal medicine physician. I trained initially in India in one of the top med schools. And then I

Unlike most physicians who kind of continue down seeing patients for years, I felt there was something lacking in sort of

I'm a very curious person. And so I was always focused more on why things were happening than how to kind of treat the symptomatology. So I had a sort of physician scientist scholarship to go and train in the U.S. I was in the U.S. several years, trained in the University of Connecticut at the med school there, trained in medicine.

studying how immune responses start and can be tolerated, etc. with different parts of the aging process. And that led me to Switzerland, where I started working for several companies.

Health science was one of them where they were interested in sort of how nutrition can be applied to healthy aging. Then about 10 years back, started with Timeline. So really one of the first people in the company and took something from a laboratory in addition, took it all the way to human testing and commercialization. So that's my background. Wow. And you also own a lot of patents. You've been very involved in clinical trials, right?

Yeah, so yeah, I've done like 50 plus randomized clinical trials, name it probiotics, prebiotics, postbiotics, all kinds of immune boosting actives like beta-glucan. I've done those. And then, of course, yeah, I'm very well published and have a lot of patents.

Wow. So you're definitely an expert that we can trust. Sometimes you get a lot of people and you don't really know. And I always talk about this on my show. You have to really know who you're getting your information from. And so that's why I always like to kind of give people background so they know that you're legit in terms of your education and...

and your qualifications. You said something that I think is very interesting. You talked about prebiotic, probiotic, and something called postbiotic. Can you just tell us, tell me what is, 'cause we hear the word probiotics all the time. What is a postbiotic?

Sure. So let me start by defining what prebiotics are and probiotics are, and then I'll go to postbiotics. So prebiotics are essentially dietary fiber that is food for these gut microbiomes. So, you know, we are 99% of our genetic material in our body is due to these host bacteria that have a symbiotic relationship with us. These are mostly in the gut, but they're in other places like the skin. And they need...

they need nutrients. And one of the nutrients they need is these prebiotics. So prebiotic is a food for these gut-resident bacteria. Now, if you're taking, if you're not eating right foods, if you're taking a lot of antibiotics, these healthy gut bacteria get disrupted. And that's why you require probiotics. So you need to kind of rehydrate

regenerate that ecosystem. And that's why probiotics are so popular because you get a bug in your GI system and it kind of soups away all the healthy gut bacteria. And so you need to take a lot of good bacteria to reseed your gut ecosystem. And then these bacteria, these healthy gut bacteria, they process everything we are eating into molecules that we call postbiotics.

that have these immense health benefits for us, the human host. So that's the definition of postbiotic. So essentially the probiotics or the gut microbiome is like a polypharmacy that is harnessing everything we are eating and releasing molecules, both good and bad, but mostly good, that are beneficial for the human host.

So how do we get postbiotics? Can we get them through food postbiotics? How do we get them? So it's a sequence, right? So if you're eating the right food, so let's name a few postbiotics. So the most common postbiotics that folks probably are not even aware of their postbiotics are certain vitamins. So typically vitamin K is a very essential vitamin that is produced in the gut microbiome. A lot of...

what we call short chain fatty acids. These are like butyrate molecules, like butyrate that is produced if you're eating a lot of prebiotics, for example, like husk and, you know, all these fiber rich foods. So these are the postbiotics. Now you can get

most of them from the food you need to eat the right foods. So in the case, and we can talk about urolatin A, you're eating a lot of pomegranates and berries and nuts, which have the dietary precursors. So a lot of these antioxidants, polyphenolic compounds that then the gut microbiome will digest and release the postbiotic called urolatin A.

And that's what I really wanted to discuss with you because urolithin A is a compound, a molecule, right? That it seems to be like one of these extraordinary molecules or compounds that a lot of people just don't know about.

and I wanted to kind of talk about it. So can you tell us what it is and why it's so beneficial to our health? Sure, absolutely. So urolitins are a group of metabolites produced by the gut microbiome. And that's why essentially they're classified as postbiotic. And there are several urolitins. The most commonly found urolitin is the urolitin A. And then there's urolitin B, C, D, et cetera. These were...

initially for many years, these were discovered long back, even in the 60s and 70s. They were found in certain, you know, there's a lot of, in the Iberian Peninsula in Spain, a lot of pigs eat acorns. Acorns are very rich in polyphenols and they were finding them in Iberian ham. And so there was always these, but they were all always taught as the sort of

waste product and waste product of the metabolism of these very rich polyphenolic foods. So pomegranate, for example, is a superfood. Pecans, walnuts, nuts are superfoods. Berries are superfoods. It was always thought that the bioactives were in these foods, but what turned out, and that's the discovery made about 15 years back, is that this was not a waste product, but it was actually

a very health promoting gut metabolite produced. And so one of the professors we were working with actually, when we started, we wanted to deconstruct the pomegranate.

And we started by studying hundreds and thousands of compounds and pomegranates all around the world. And we were collaborating with the top professors in the world. And one of them is a mitochondrial guru. And we gave him all these compounds. He came running to us saying, well, this one compound is doing magic in all these longevity assays. What is it? And that's how we discovered urolitin A, because it was not the polyphenols and the

pomegranate, but it was actually the result of the absorption by the gut microbiome. Now, the key to know, just as a last point, is that not everybody has the

correct gut microbiome. So if you take 100 people and you give them a glass of pure pomegranate juice or a bowl of nuts or berries, not everybody can do this conversion naturally into making urolatin A. And we have done trials around the world. It ranges between 10% to 30% around the world where people can make some amount of urolatin A, but the rest don't have the gut microbiome. So that's why you need supplementation.

Wow. So that's interesting. So only between 10 and 30% of people can even convert it from real food like pomegranate. So what did he notice when he was doing these testings that made urolithin A so much better than all polyphenols and all these other elements in the pomegranate? Sure.

So much of the longevity research starts in smaller species that live very short lifespans. So a lot of the longevity research. So we were collaborating with this famous professor called Professor Johan Obrechts, who was behind many of the discoveries of compounds that

have these health-promoting, longevity-promoting benefits. So he discovered with Dave Sinclair back in the 90s or 20, 30 years back, Respiratrol, he discovered a lot of the NAD boosters. In his lab, they use a species of worm called C. elegans, and that's where most of the research in the longevity space starts. These worms live about 20 days,

And so you can put hundreds of compounds. So he was putting rapamycin, metformin, all these longevity compounds. And then he was putting all these polyphenols that are present in the palm granite. And most of these polyphenols had no effect except urolithin A, which extended the lifespan and the mobility of these worms by almost about 40 to 45%. Now, that's when we got excited because the...

Only two interventions that come close are better. One is caloric restriction. So if you make these worms eat 18 to 20% lesser, so you kind of do what we do with intermittent fasting today. If you eat less, there's less waste to repair and there's more time to repair. And then these worms live longer.

And the second one, and that's about 50 to 60% improvement in lifespan and health span. The second one is actually an old drug called metformin that has been used as an anti-diabetic drug for 30, 40 years, very safe drug. And that does it by 40 to 45%. So that's what got us excited that a natural compound was doing even better or as good as metformin by about 45%. And then we went to different models with age. Wow.

So let me ask you a question. Why is it that a lot of people in the longevity space, the wellness space, knows about metformin, right? They know about, I never can pronounce it, resveratrol. But not many people know about urolithin A. The answer is very simple. Metformin, as I mentioned, is a drug that has been around for 40 plus years. And the

It has been used in diabetics now. The right study there to do would be, well, all these people have been taking for 30, 40 years of their life since they're 40, 50. Are they even alive today, right? Have they lived longer? That would be probably. But they have found these other off-target effects of metformin, which they think, so it's a safe molecule. So that's why there is a lot of excitement. It's in the vocabulary of people.

Resveratrol was also discovered about 25 plus years back. So it's again, mainstream and in the vocabulary of people that it's a safe molecule and there it was found in the skin of red grapes. So, you know, there is sort of the association that

a little bit of wine and having fermented products is beneficial for you. Uralitin A is so new. The first publications we put out was 2016. And the first trials we have put out is 2019 with randomized clinical trials. So I think people are now, when I first started showing the data in top medical Congress around the world, people really started to notice because there was an appreciation that

This is sort of the next longevity molecule. It's just people need to be more aware of it. Yeah, no, I know. That's what made me so excited because, you know, I know about NAD. I know about, you know, metformin, resveratrol, but I've never really heard that much about urolithin A. And then I was looking at all this research and data and, you

you know, all the things that it was talking about, like for your mitochondrial health, for your cellular health, for muscle endurance. There's so many ways, so many things about it that are so effective for your overall health. Can you talk about that? Can you talk about how it can help improve your mitochondrial health and why the mitochondria is so important and when does it start to decline?

Sure. Yeah. So mitochondria, think of mitochondria, and I am sure everybody knows that these are the powerhouses of the cell, which means that they are energy factories of the cell. So think of mitochondria as the grid, energy grid, you know, in your town that is just supplying energy. And that's the electricity you need to power up the homes. And that's what in

Organs are in cells that are very metabolically high, like the skeletal muscle, the brain, the neuron, the cardiac muscle. There are thousands of these mitochondria, and they really exist in a grid-like structure. So if you actually look with an electron microscope, they'll always be talking to each other and they'll always be energy exchange. Now, around the 30s and 40s, and there's always a balance between healthy mitochondria

producing energy and those that have kind of accumulated stress and waste and they're becoming dysfunctional. So there's always a balance between the good and the, and there's a process to clean the unhealthy ones out. And this, the process to clean the

unhealthy mitochondria is a process we call, well, in cells in general, it's called autophagy. But when it happens in the mitochondria, it's a process called mitophagy, which means self-cleaning and self-renewal, basically. And so what happens with aging after our 40s and 50s, this process slows down or it stalls in a lot of cases. So you have the

Think of this process as like the garbage truck that shows up every week to your home to pick up trash. If that doesn't show up or that shows up but gets caught in a traffic jam or it doesn't show up as frequently, that's the kind of scenario that starts to happen with aging. And so a lot of these cells that have a very high metabolic demand. So impairment of mitophagy results in Parkinson's, the results in Alzheimer's, results in

frailty in the muscle and sarcopenia in the muscle. And so today there are three ways to improve mitochondrial health. One, you can use exercise as the best drug actually to improve mitochondrial health. Fasting, intermittent fasting, a calorie restriction also does that. But then there are interventions that can make mitochondria produce more energy. Okay. This is something we call improving the efficiency of mitochondria.

Then there are ways to grow newer healthy mitochondria. This is what you were talking about, resveratrol and NAD boosters. Typically, they start a process we call biogenesis, which means new mitochondria are being created. Now, what has never been really discovered and nobody had really found a way to superimpose

sort of accelerate is this cleanup process of the faulty mitochondria, this mitophagy. And that's where urolitin A was discovered and found to be one of the, probably the safest and only mitophagy activators. So when you take urolitin A, you activate mitophagy, the cleanup happens much faster, the faulty mitochondria give more real estate inside a cell to healthy new mitochondria.

So we see that always. So that's because I saw them on that. So I've never heard of the term mitophagy. So in like a very in a very layman's person's kind of brain, if mitophagy helps clean up your mitochondrial, like it basically takes out the bad mitochondrial cells. Mm hmm.

and refurbishes it with healthy ones, correct? Mm-hmm, correct. Now, with autophagy, because that word we hear all the time in health, right? Like, what does autophagy do? So what's the difference? If they're both kind of like, you know,

you know, basically like these cleaning mechanisms for your cellular health. So autophagy is a whole cell process. It's happening in a whole cellular process. Okay. And mitophagy is really another form of autophagy that is specific to the mitochondria. Got it. So...

There are other organelles inside a cell like the lysosome. So they also have an autophagy, which we call lysophagy. So autophagy is the global term. And in many ways, when we do randomized clinical trials and post-supplementation with urolithin A, we take either blood cells or little chunks of skeletal muscle. We see both autophagy and mitophagy happening.

Is there a way to measure how much is happening? Could you measure it? Is it measurable? Yeah, so that has been one of the whole, let's say the holy grails in the field in the clinical research. Today, we do need to either bleed somebody and collect blood cells. So these are your circulating leukocytes that we need to study. Or if we want to study specifically in one organ, in most of my trials, I end up doing muscle biopsies, which is a bit

painful, but, you know, and then we study in the muscle. We look at specific markers of mitophagy. So then, like, when I'm taking this MitoPure, me, my husband, I've given it to a bunch of my friends. I've noticed a little bit of spike in energy. Is that normal? That's correct. And so what we see, and we've done at least about 10

10-odd randomized clinical trials, different age groups, almost thousands of participants in these trials. In the first month, this is not a, let's be very straight, it's not a magic bullet that in a few days you will suddenly see the energy increase. This is something that is foundational for good cellular health. So think of...

You know, it takes about a month, similar to how exercise would improve mitochondria. We see in about a month, we start seeing the old bad mitochondria gone and new or healthy mitochondria. So, and then in a couple of months when we go longer in these trials, that's when people really come and say, oh, we have more energy and you can measure it when you put them on an ergometer or a treadmill and you measure their VO2. So people have higher VO2. So they're, you know,

their oxygen consumption is higher. And then you go longer beyond four plus months, we start seeing better things like

like recovery from exercise, better muscle strength. So that was what you just said, something that I was very curious about. Because I saw that urolithin A, which you can get in MitoPure, has been clinically proven to enhance, improve your muscular endurance, your muscular strength. Can you just talk about that by, can you talk about the measurable, what you've found? So first start with that, and then I'll get into the other questions. Okay.

Sure. Yeah. So when we started, the first trials we did was we actually mapped out the trajectory of mitochondrial decline with muscle aging. So I believe personally, having studied the muscle for 20 plus years, that muscle is a very key longevity organ. So we were studying the muscles of 70-year-olds who were pretty much spent all their adult life at

were exercising and training for half marathons at 70, 75 years of age. And we were comparing them to age match 70, 75, 80 year olds who were on this trajectory to sort of what we call frailty syndrome. So they were walking around with a stick. They were very sedentary. Their muscle function was very poor. And when we took little chunks of their muscle, the number one difference

biological pathway that lit up was poor mitochondria in those who were very sedentary. So exercise, that's why I was saying exercise, probably the number one drug that you can have to life. You know, if you're moving around, if you're active for 30 minutes a day, that's the best therapy. Now we took these 70 year olds who were sedentary for most of their adult life, had declining muscle health. We put them in a randomized clinical trial with a placebo arm to increasing their

doses of urolitin A. And what we found in about a month that the mitochondria in the muscles became very active, almost as what we were seeing with the folks who had done exercise in the muscles of those who were doing regular exercise. So that was our first finding.

And from there, we went longer in these older adults. And about two months, if you brought these adults in and you made them do like a leg press test, so they do a repeated exercise test. And after a while, they get fatigued and tired.

two months in into the supplementation, they kept going about 17, 20% longer. So they had more endurance, more energy to just, you know, their muscles wouldn't get fatigued that fast. Was that...

with only taking the supplement, not including any exercise? No. So in these, we closely monitored their dietary habits and you can do a sort of a dietary recall every week with a three-day questionnaire and you track their physical activity levels either with a

with a smart variable or with a sort of questionnaire that tracks their physical activity levels. So they got no counseling. They didn't change their physical activity levels, neither did they change their diet drastically. They didn't. They did not. They did not. So all they did was incorporate and integrate urolithin A or mitopur into their diet. Okay, so then what about people...

who are very active already, who exercise already, who eat well already, is there any improvement? Or is it because they're already doing all the things, is there less of that?

of like an apparent difference? Sure. All great questions. And so we started with, let's say, the one side of the spectrum where we knew mitochondria are poor and we wanted to show an effect. I'm a trialist and after 20 years, I want to show success in the first trials. Right. And then we went younger. So the question was, well, is this something only for 65, 70 year olds or, you know, can you do this in the

in the forties and fifties. And so we went with a cohort of folks who were in their forties and fifties, and we repeated the same sort of intervention strategy, no change in diet, no change in exercise. We saw the same effect after four months, these folks had more VO2, they had better leg strength. They, if you put them on a walk test, they did better in the walk tests and their mitochondria look good. And then back to your other question, well, what about folks who are exercising, uh,

And, you know, what about even younger? So we said, okay. And actually looking at the data, we were approached by one of the top sports researchers who at that time was working with Olympian athletes. And she said, well, if it's really going to do something, let me try it in Olympian athletes who are probably at the peak of human performance. And so in that population, we gave it for a month because, yeah,

She said, well, no top athlete will take anything longer than a month. And we said, okay, let's see what happens. And what we found in that population, urolithin A dampened the inflammation. A lot of these athletes, if you look, they're super inflamed. They have a lot of muscle damage because they train so hard. Yes, their mitochondria are at the peak. But what we found was that actually the recovery of these patients

folks who were exercising was much better. Performance pretty much stayed the same. Their endurance improved. But what the biggest two findings in this trial was these athletes felt less fatigued and they recovered faster. And it was because of the mitochondria. Wow. So then are you finding that a lot of professional athletes, high performance people are taking this?

because of that or because so that's you know we were approached as I mentioned by this top sports researcher who works with really top athletes around around the world and one of the athletes she was working with was actually a rising athlete

NBA star who kept getting injured and she wanted to try Mito Pure. And then she saw, in addition to other things they were doing, that Mito Pure or Urolithin A was really helping in the recovery of this particular athlete. And well, last year, I believe he actually won the most MVP of the NBA. So that's just... Wait, who was that? That wasn't Stephen Curry, is it? No. No, it was Joel Embiid. Oh, wow. Okay. I

I don't know many. I don't know the names of many of the NBA players. That's amazing. So why wouldn't like every NBA player, every baseball player, every like, why isn't everybody taking it? Like, that's the job of these of these coaches and strength and endurance coaches and, you know, high performance coaches to get that.

I guess their clients, their athletes at like the peakest of peak levels. It's a great question. And I think part of it is education. Part of it is spreading the word. And second is word of mouth. So I think now and maybe, you know, what works for somebody, they don't want to tell others. So the others get to the same level. This may be a competitive strategy, but I'm aware of a lot of people.

And also what works for one sport athlete may not work for the other. I know several Tour de France cycling teams have taken it, especially with their older cyclists who recover better. I know at least two cyclists

American football teams. Well, I know one professor who was actually an advisor to New England Patriots, and I believe they take it. So yeah, the word is spreading, so it'll take a while, but I do believe a lot of athletes are taking it. I have another question about this. So a lot of athletes I know, a lot of these high-performance people, they are taking NAD a lot.

And because NAD is also about the cellular health that we talked about, mitochondrial health, recovery. Can you take both at the same time? What is the difference between the two and what they do? The difference is NAD works on the

idea that you can create near mitochondria. Now, real estate is limited inside a cell, and a cell, especially a very energetic cell like the skeletal muscle, has thousands of mitochondria. Now, it requires the cleaning to happen for the near mitochondria to come in. And so what you see is, if you look at the trials of NAD, you see a

an effect and then it plateaus out. And I believe where urolitinase shines is that it actually allows the cleaning and then the neuromyocondrial happens. But I think there's a sweet spot of all these strategies to be combined. So I do think this is kind of very...

futuristic where a lot of folks will do combinations and regimens of, you know, cleaning out the waste and then putting the NAD. Yeah. Is there just like, cause I know this is, does Timeline own the patents on using urolithin A for like a supplement or can any other company use it? Cause I don't know anybody else who's doing it, but again, like I'm, I'm,

I'm just learning about this now. Right. So, you know, again, the company was started by doctors and scientists. The first

individuals uh who worked for who have been working on this for 15 years are all mds and phds and scientists and doctors and so we have practically every patent on the health benefit related to urolithin a whether it's for improving muscle health or metabolic health or or or

brain health or immune health, for example. Wherever mitochondria are found in every organ and every cell type, except the red blood cells. So practically, we own a whole army of patents. Now, there are companies who have, let's say, seen all the exciting data and much like how it happens in

In the sort of the vitamin, mineral, probiotic world, everybody just copies. Yeah. It's starting to happen. We have a lot of Me Too products coming on. The only, we manufacture all our products in the United States and or Switzerland for our, for, we have a new line of topical products because we, we,

We have more data coming in. But a lot of these companies are buying from China, and that's how most of this urolithin A, this Me Too fake urolithin A is coming in. We have looked in it. There's hardly any urolithin A in these Me Too supplements. So that's the problem. Yeah, that happens a lot. That's why I wanted to ask that question, because when anything has a very strong efficacy and it becomes popular, a lot of copycats come and...

I've done a lot of this testing with other things, different formula ingredients, I should say, molecules. And it's so unbelievably shocking that people can come in and sell anything and basically have almost zero amounts, just nothing.

slivers of what it is and a very low grade of it. And they're calling themselves, you know, the leading whoever. So people have to be very, very careful of who and what they're listening to. That's why I wanted to be, I wanted to ask you about that. What about for fat loss, for weight loss? So if it has, if it's cleaning out your mitochondria, it's giving people more energy and recovery, it's improving your muscle endurance and your muscle strength.

Where is the, does urolithin A, MitoPure, does it help with overall fat loss, overall weight loss? Because, does it change your body composition? These are all great questions. So we haven't, to change body composition or affect weight loss, if you've looked at all the Zempik story with these weight loss drugs, whether it's Zempik or Vicovi or, you know, with

they have the same kind of drug, semaglutide. You need about 12 to 18 months. So you need to go that long. So what we are doing now, so in addition to the effects we are seeing on muscle, we have looked at the data and see what else are we seeing. We are seeing a dampening of inflammation. That's the number two thing we pick up. So we see all these individuals who are overweight, obese, or very older adults who hardly move.

they're all inflamed. If you do a little blood draw and you look at markers like C-reactive protein, which is a global pro-inflammatory marker, they all have

have shooting CRP. And by the end of the studies, they have brought it, you know, supplementation of the urolithinase has brought it down to physiological levels. The other thing we are seeing is a lot of change of fuel utilization from glucose to fat burn. Now, what we are doing now is we are a very small company. And of course, we have done this research 15 years. So we are now partnering with the leading companies

institutions around the world. So for example, the National Institute of Aging is now running a study with us in diabetics who are overweight, where we are looking at exactly the question you are saying is, does it affect glucose tolerance? Does it affect insulin levels? Does it affect weight loss? So I don't have the data to discuss with you today, but I think that's where we think it will have a great impact.

going longer. Because if it increases your muscle endurance or muscle strength by 17% within eight weeks, I think that was what it was, then I would imagine just you would be burning more calories because your body composition is a little bit strong, you know, is now

shifting to more muscular versus fat, number one. And I would say for people who are in middle age with sarcopenia and all these things, it sounds to me like nothing's a magic pill, nothing's a wonder drug, but it definitely can boost or enhance your skeletal muscle by taking something like this.

So I spent a long time studying high protein supplementation in older adults who are sarcopenic. That's five years of my research was focused on that. Now, what we saw was until you put... And high protein is only boosting up the muscle mass. And it works. It really starts...

having an impact on what we call muscle quality and the energetics of the muscle and the strength of the muscle or the function of the muscle is when you combine it with exercise. And so what we are thinking is that for a lot of these older adults, a lot of these overweight adults, exercise, actually, if you do the randomized trials, they hardly comply to these exercise protocols because it's so tough for them to show up and do three times 30 minutes of exercise.

So we are doing a trial and the results should come out very soon is where we are combining 20 grams of high protein supplementation with urolitin A with the idea that we can, we can,

on one hand, boost muscle mass, but also the functionality. And so that will be, I believe, the kind of approach going forward for a lot of folks who have frailty or sarcopenia or even ozempic-mediated muscle loss, which, you know, folks on ozempic, like drugs are losing 10%, 15% of their muscle in addition to their fat.

That's amazing. I mean, so let me ask, you just talked about Ozempic and the GLP-1. So because you do research on this, people who do Ozempic and all those other GLP-1 injections, if they did them...

And also did strength training. Would they not lose the muscle? Like, why are people losing muscle when they're taking these injections? Yeah, so the amount that these folks lose, well, first, these are wonderful drugs and they're meant for a lot of obese individuals to bring them back to sort of a healthy metabolic status. Now they've become more into lifestyle and

interventions where if you burn, they burn about 20% of body weight, of which 15% is fat. The remaining 10 is muscle. If you're taking dietary counseling, you're taking high quality protein. And if you're taking, uh,

if you're working with a trainer, if you're doing resistance training, then I think that's the right strategy, as you said. These folks need to be counseled. And you can't always be on Ozempic. I mean, you can be on 12 months, but once, if you see actually the data from all these top

publications, the moment these folks stop the medication in six months, the fat is back, but the muscle is not. And that's actually when I think they need this counseling that you were talking about, about resistance training, about exercise training, dietary counseling, and even things like, I think, urolitin A and NAD boosters could help on the mitochondria side.

That's so interesting. So if someone, is it absorbable? Is urolithin A absorbable in everybody? Yeah. So that's the idea. So somebody like me who can't make it after drinking six glasses of pomegranate juice, I need to supplement it. Right. And we have done studies where 500 milligram, we have seen as we did all the increasing doses, 500 milligram gets everybody at the same level. Wow.

And that's where we start seeing a lot of the mitochondrial benefits. At even higher doses, like a gram of urolatin A, you kind of turbocharge the mitochondria. You kind of get all the

dampening effect on the inflammation coming up. And we can measure it. So I've developed, I've created a test actually where I can, and it's just still in a prototype, like a clinical studies of your listeners are interested. We can provide the link and they can do it. It's a very simple test that you drink a glass of pomegranate juice. Well, it's a commercial pomegranate juice and you can just

prick your finger, put a few drops of blood on a filter card, we'll be able to tell you if you're actually a natural producer of urolithin A or not. And depending on the levels, you can actually take the equivalent dose of urolithin A. And that's what I feel the whole nutrition industry has not done is like precision nutrition, right? That

You're taking this gram of vitamin C, which is four oranges squeezed together, but where is it going? Nobody knows how much do you really absorb. So it does get absorbed in everybody. We have tested it in pills. We've tested it in powders. We are even making gummies now. So it's a very stable molecule compared to NAD boosters, which you're not able to put them in every matrix.

Oh, I didn't know that. Really? Yeah. So NAD boosters, you can only put them in a certain soft gel or a pill because, yeah, you can't put them in a liquid or wherever because they kind of get oxidized. It's part of the NAD cell, which they get oxidized and then they don't become as functional as they are. Are you guys going to do IVs for this? Are?

Our North Star has always been to disrupt nutrition. We have a lot of professors, top universities playing around with different formulations for different even medical conditions. But as a company, we focus on two things today. One is the oral range of products, and then we have a topical range of urolithin-A mitopure products where we are tackling skin aging and skin mitochondrial decline that

It's sort of, yeah, where we are at. Well, you just said the magic word there again, skin aging. Okay, so tell me how this helps, how your lymphin A, it could be an ingredient then in beauty then, right? That's what we are. We have spent a good part of our last three years in research studying skin.

how skin aging, and it's amazing to see that actually the skin is also a very metabolic organ. If you take the skin of a 30 year old, a group of 30 year old folk people, compare that to 50 year olds and 70 year olds, you'll actually see in addition to all the collagen loss that happens,

It's actually the mitochondria decline that is the key hallmark of skin aging. And the skin aging happens because of, obviously, the mitochondria slowing down, but they also get damaged with the harmful UV rays, for example. And so what we are seeing, and also mitochondria are the factories to produce or digest mitochondria.

and break it down. So what we are seeing now is that by turbocharging the mitochondria, by applying urolitin A topically, we can recover and re-energize the skin to a certain extent. Wow. So you're telling me that, so besides, of course, collagen,

collagen and all those things, that it's actually the mitochondria decline that's causing a lot of the aging or the appearance of aging? That's correct. One of the key hallmarks of skin aging is this loss of intrinsic aging.

energetic capacity of the skin and that results in poor collagen. Well, actually what happens is you get a lot of collagen degrading enzymes going up and that's part of inflammation as well. So what we think urolithin A or mitopur is, we have trademarked it, is a double-edged answer to tackling

different angles of skin aging. And we've run almost four randomized trials and we've seen that it can

boost skin hydration. It can, after eight weeks of applying topically urolithin A, we see better skin barrier. And when we take skin biopsies, much like we did with the muscle, we see more collagen in the skin. Wow. Okay. Can I double my dose? What happens if you double the dose? Would I look like I'm 25 again? So, well, I think that's a question a lot of folks are now asking me. Can I take the oral and the topical and that will help me? Probably

Probably the answer is yes, but that's a trial again, a clinical trial I'm running right now. Will you let me know as soon as possible? Yeah, sure. Absolutely. But till then, you should try out our topical products if you don't have happy to send it to you. Yeah. Send me whatever you want to send me. I will slather that stuff on my face right away. So, wow. This is so, I mean, listen, I find this to be really interesting. Like I said,

You know, you hear ad nauseum about the same things. I hear about collagen. I hear about NAD, resveratrol. I can never say it. Resveratrol. But I've never heard of urolithin A. And the fact that it's kind of, I believe, on the cutting edge, it's one of these things that people don't know that they should know.

And you were just a fountain of information. So I really appreciate you coming on the podcast and sharing all of this. Sure. Pleasure is mine. Yeah, it's amazing. No, thank you guys. It's called Mito Pure. Like I said, it's a longevity supplement that I find to be one of these new things that actually has a lot of legs, sea legs. So again, Dr. Singh, you've been a delight. Thank you for coming on. And if people want to know more, where can they go and find out more?

about your research or? So they can, sure. Yeah, if they want to learn more, they can go to website timeline.com. And if they want to dig deep into really all the science around urethane and MitoPure, they go to MitoPure.com. Thank you so much, Dr. Singh. I appreciate it. And thank you for doing this podcast out of Switzerland. I know it's late there for you. So thank you again. Thank you. Thank you.