Humor and Heart with Damona Hoffman
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We are all addicted to this idea of the fairy tale. And in the fairy tale, like there's no there's no like sliding into the DMs. There's no, you know, only fans. There's all of these other real world realities that then creep into two real relationships that we have to account for as we're actually writing that story. You probably think this story is about you.

I'm Brittany Ard, and this story is mine. Hi, I'm Damona Hoffman. I'm a certified dating coach and the author of the new book, F the Fairy Tale, Rewrite the Dating Myths and Live Your Own Love Story. I started listening to your audio book. It's really interesting to me how you approach dating. My big thing is that I am very curious about the why of people. So I want to know how you got into becoming a dating coach.

I got into dating coaching quite by accident as I think most dating coaches did have in the past. It was really from being in the position of being a frustrated dater.

that wasn't finding what I was looking for out in the wild. And now when I started online dating, it was back in the wild west, Brittany. It was like, we're talking like infancy of Match.com. I was working as a casting director in television and I was teaching classes at night for actors and how to market themselves. And I was teaching classes at night for actors

and how to tell their story really through their pictures so that they could stand out to someone like me, to a casting director. And I started to notice the similarities when I finally discovered online dating and what I thought was like a treasure trove of undiscovered men at that time.

I realized that I had to do that same thing that I was teaching actors to sort of cast myself into my own love story. So I initially, I wrote my dating profile, designed my photos, really thinking from a marketing perspective first.

And ended up meeting my husband online. And then everybody started coming to me. And this was like 2005. People started coming to me saying, well, you met this great guy, but online dating doesn't really work. So I started writing dating profiles at that point. And after getting so many people on amazing first dates that I realized I needed to get

more skills to support people through the entire process of dating because as you know, Brittany, just meeting people is just, that's just half the battle. It's what happens after. I have been on probably 30 first dates this year.

That's a good date rate. Not a lot of second dates, a few, but not, you know, not a lot. One of the things I like in your book, say yes, like say yes to anything. And so when I am dating, it's very much out of my comfort zone. I don't just pick the same type of person. My age range is big and it's like, just try, just meet people and, and see where that connection is. And, um,

Still, I don't go on a lot of second dates, which I don't know that I want to be in a relationship right now. So it's more just to keep myself out there and comfortable with talking to people. I'm taking a break right now from dating. But the book, I love the title. F the Fairytale is so great.

The very last line in my season one is that I don't know that I'm going to have the fairy tale because I'm not willing to sacrifice any part of me to get it. I went into my relationship with Kanan planning the fairy tale already. And that's where a lot of the problems came in. OK, well, let's begin with the beginning of where you started with the fairy tale.

Our brains are really wired for stories. We saw this in season one. And also I see this in my clients all the time. And I used to do this as well. We want to get to the end of the story before we're actually in, in the midst of it. So it's like, I could tell you what the red flags are, but they're meaningless. If you're blowing through the stop signs and the red lights and the flags and all of the things, because you're trying to make the story fit. You're getting to the ending and you're,

and changing the meaning of the plot points along the way. So the red flags are really, there are some that are universal, and then there are many that are unique to you. And as you saw in After the Fairytale, I always begin my clients with mindset. And that means clarifying both

the kind of relationship that you want, who you are, what you have to bring to the table, and your red flags really need to be generated based on that, based on what you specifically want. But of course, you know, signs of deceit,

things, things not matching their words, not matching their actions, or, you know, as you experienced stories starting to diverge when they tell the story again or where they tell the story to someone else, any kind of behavior where it seems like they are hiding something from you. We are all addicted to this idea of the fairy tale. And in the fairy tale, like there's no, there's no like,

sliding into the DMs. There's no, you know, only fans. There's all of these other real world realities that then creep into two real relationships that we have to account for as we're actually writing that story. It's so unique. And I really, really like the idea of going in with the mindset of the red flags have to be

how they don't meet what I need. Not necessarily that, you know, they have four baby mamas or, you know, whatever it is, which is also a red flag, but, you know, to be specific in the clarity of what it is that I'm looking for and what I want. And I haven't ever thought of it that way. And I really like framing it in that, in that sense. You grew up in Michigan and,

True. And how did you, are you, you're in LA, is that right? Yes. Yes. How did you end up in LA? Bright lights, big city, you know? Yeah.

I came here with a dream and with the story. I actually wanted to work as a casting director in television. And it's funny what happens to your story when you get more data points along the way. So I actually very quickly got into my dream job. I started at CBS when I was 21 years old as an assistant in the casting department and

I achieved what I thought was my dream very quickly. And I also saw that the job that I thought it was,

wasn't the job it actually was. Much like we see in relationships, right? That's how I came to Los Angeles. But I soon found that I really wanted to make an impact in a different way. So I still have this goal of working in television. I worked all the way up the chain in television to vice president of programming and

Then I found after I had my daughter, I came back to this job that I had once loved and it didn't feel the same. So I had to change my story at that point. And I had started writing dating profiles on the side the entire time, but I started to ask at that point,

What if, what if what I thought was the path that I was on was the path up until that point and I created a new path. So I left my job and I started, I started to invest more in thinking of writing the profiles, not just as like a side hustle, but actually as my business, I became certified as a life coach. And then specifically as a dating coach,

And I really love this work. And like I've been doing my podcast, Aids and Mates, for 12 years. I've been coaching now unofficially for 18 years, officially for about 13 full time. And it's just it when you are on purpose, right?

The work feels different, you know, it doesn't feel like work. So I really feel like this is, this is the path I'm supposed to be on right now. My favorite thing is waking up and not feeling like I'm going to work that I get to do what I love. And, you know, for me, connecting with people is such a huge part of my life.

And so it's why I did my podcast was to make people feel less alone in kind of normal, not even, I don't even like the word trauma, but stuff that happens in life, divorce and death and grief and, you know, illness and bad relationships and bringing it back to that human level so that we can have conversations about it. When you are,

approach a new client, a new person, what do you do to get the right information out of them so that you can help them? Love can only come out of love.

So a lot of times when I first started doing this work, people are like, I don't understand. Like, what do you do? Are you like the millionaire matchmaker? I'm like, no, I am like the anti-millionaire matchmaker. I am. My approach is to really get to the core of who somebody is and what they want. And I do it with humor and I do it with heart. So I'm not about like,

Let's change everything about you and let's take you down to the studs and rebuild you and give you a makeover. My tagline on my website is love as you are. So what happened for me when I was dating, I found that when I was chasing something, when I was chasing the fairy tale, when I wanted this picture perfect thing that I felt like everybody else had and I did not, when I stopped chasing that and instead just said, hey, this is who I am.

I'm a biracial misfit from the Midwest with curly hair and freckles, freckles, and I'm short and I don't fit the mold of anything. Like I realize like that is just me. That is who I am.

And instead, I'm going to lean into that and let that be the thing that attracts the right person to me. So that is really part of my core philosophy with any client is that you are lovable as you are. We might need to change the process. We might need to change your goal for what you're looking for. And then we get really crystal clear on what you're looking for. Because a lot of times when I start with a client, I say, okay, you know, what are you looking for? Or I'll look at their dating profile and what their preferences are.

And they'll either tell me I'll know it when I see it or they give me a list a mile long of all of these qualities that ultimately do not have any bearing on long-term compatibility. It's like, oh, well, he's got to be six feet tall or taller. He needs to make as much money as I make or more. He needs to have this level of education. And it's like,

You've told me nothing about who this person is actually. So through different exercises, we get underneath that and really get to the core of who are you and what do you want and what do you need in a relationship? What are the core values you have because that's what you should be trying to find compatibility with? Is that right?

Absolutely. So in F the Fairy Tale, I found I've had these four pillars of long-term compatibility for a long time with my clients. And a lot of times I start with dating coaching, but I end up coaching into relationships. And so I was like, I need to really clarify what are the common factors that lead to that long-term compatibility? And I

As I was identifying these four big myths that the book is really built around, the myths that we buy into about what love is supposed to look like, I found that the myths were really perfectly aligned with these pillars.

And so when we're starting with the mindset, the first thing that I actually do is figure out what are your relationship goals? Because a lot of times we're afraid to say that like, well, I want to have a family or I don't want to have a family or I would like to travel the world or I would like to be non-monogamous. Like whatever it is, I approach all my clients without judgment. What you want is what you want.

And stuffing that down or trying to make what you want fit what the other person wants will only lead to heartbreak. So we really get into the goals first. And then the second pillar is looking at those values and the way that you live your life. And I find that a lot of times that will show up. People are like, how do I know my values? How do you spend your time? How do you spend your money? That'll tell you right off the bat.

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I tend to date younger men, not really on purpose, but they seem to... But hey, you got it. You got it. You got it, Brittany. They seem to be the ones lining up. But one of the biggest issues that I have is a lot of them want kids. And I am the mother of six kids. I am done having children physically. I had a hysterectomy last year, so I physically can't. Two of my boys are adopted, so I'm not really opposed to that, but it always...

starts off so great. And then once we get to the kid conversation, they're like, oh, I would love to have kids. And it's like, I'm not willing to start over again, raising children. And it is really hard. I dated someone over the summer who we were highly compatible on so many different levels on our core, but he really wants children. And he was like, after meeting you, I want children more. Right.

And it's like that baby factory is closed, you know, that's something. And so we parted ways as friends because I'm not willing to sacrifice that. He's not willing to give that up. And we were both really sad about it. But I said, I'm really proud of us that neither of us is willing to give up a part of ourselves to fit in to this relationship for this moment. And, you know, I,

About a year. It was after Canaan. I used to get so stressed out about responding to text messages. Like, how are they going to take it? What am I going to say? And now the first thing that pops into my head is what I text because that's how I feel about it. And if they don't like it or it hits wrong, we're probably not compatible. And I not forcing this message.

has been such a big lesson for me and has helped saved me so much wasted time in talking to people that I'm not compatible with. Yeah. And you get that emotional investment too, if you're not having those conversations early on, because, you know, we all have fear and especially in dating and moving into relationships and

Bearing your soul and your deepest wants and needs to someone, that's a very vulnerable place to be. And so we are afraid to be our whole self. We're afraid to speak what we actually want because we're afraid if we say that and then they reject us.

That's going to really hurt. But I try to reframe this for my clients and listeners that it's not a rejection of you. It's a rejection of the story that you're writing, right? And it's just not an alignment for them. And the most compassionate thing you can do for yourself and for them at that point is to let them go.

And I know when I say that, I know how hard that can be, which is why we want to front load some of those conversations just to make sure like the core. I tell my clients, you want three must haves and one deal breaker. People will come to me with like 20 list long deal breaker sheet. Like, okay, we can always find a reason to say no. I'm looking for reasons to say yes.

And you're usually not going to get everything on your list. But if we really narrow it down to like, what are the three most important things? And you check those off the list first, then it's like, okay, then you get, you're not dealing with a red light or a red flag. You're dealing with

maybe a yellow light, proceed with caution. Because that is sort of the process. Like a lot of people will write into my show and say, well, how do you know? How do you know if it's the person? And it's like, you're not going to know on date one or two. Like,

what you knew about Canaan on date one, two or three, very different than what you learned five, you know, what, what you knew five months later. And with, with the must haves and deal breakers, I really also try to get into how you want to feel. So I think if I were to go back and rewrite my must haves and my deal breaker, um, I,

I would say, uh, must be intellectually stimulating at the time when I was dating. Cause a lot of these, these philosophies I've developed in my years of working with clients, like I wish I had me when I was dating, you know, I would say like needs to be smart. But now as a coach, if somebody said needs to be smart,

I would really drill down on what does that mean to you? Like I need to be intellectually stimulated in conversation specifically. I live in the world of words. So I would need that. I would need somebody that really feels, that makes me feel safe. And also somebody who honors the uniqueness in me.

And sees what makes me different. Like those are, those were my must haves. And like, I never had, like when my husband and I met, he was broke. He made half as much money as I did. I knew I was not looking for somebody who was a provider. I was looking for someone who,

I wanted to have somebody who would co-parent and who would not have any ego. I also wanted to date a feminist. I was not interested in anyone opening doors or doing any of that chivalry stuff. I was like, I need somebody who's going to not have an ego about the fact that I'm going to be working and you need to pick up the kids from school sometimes. And that is the relationship that I have built. As far as deal breakers, I just...

I hate yelling. Like my parents, now divorced, were constantly screaming at each other. And there was a lot of love in my home, but there was just a lot of fire and passion. And I didn't want any of that. And my husband doesn't even, doesn't raise his voice in the least. So some of that experience is going through the dating process with a mindset of discovery.

That you're going to get more information and some of it's going to fit into the story and some of it is not. And what can you live with and what is actually a deal breaker for you? When you're dating with trauma, how do you have conversations about that with a person that you're interested in? Obviously not on the first date. You're not going to dive in. But the slow love concepts, like how do you make sure your values are aligned when there is that underlying trauma?

Trauma or even bad experiences in dating that sometimes, you know, put up those walls. This is a tricky one because it is different for each person. And, you know, the specific story kind of trauma relationship history that all is unique to each individual. But I, I say really use your body as a compass. First of all, like, especially if you have trauma,

You're going to recognize a reaction if a feeling is repeated, if somebody steps on your boundaries, if that trauma is triggered, and to really pay attention to that because our attachment to the story will sometimes cause us to blow through that and to say like, oh, well, that's just my old stuff. It's like your old stuff is speaking to you for a reason,

And again, treat that as a yellow light. And I'm not a therapist. I am specifically a dating coach. A lot of my clients work with therapists concurrently. I think it's a really good idea if you have trauma to check in throughout that relationship development process with a trusted therapist.

So that you can make sense of what, because sometimes we'll get that feeling. Your compass will go off and you're like, okay, but I don't know what this means. And that's where it's helpful to have somebody to unpack that. Yes, I talk to my therapist a lot. And a lot of my show was, why did I end up with Canaan? Like what happened in my life that I hadn't addressed? And, you know, how did I...

succumb to being love bombed in that way so easily and and where did I need to give myself that self-validation so it's not something I was looking for from somebody else and I I've learned so much about myself um through that whole process and through therapy um

In F the fairy tale, you talk about the myth behind chemistry, which I think is so interesting because every movie, every book, every romance novel is you see a person and you just know and you have those feelings and then you build that story around that initial connection. But that's not sustainable. That, my friend, is the fairy tale. That is the big lie. Yeah.

And it's not that you don't want to feel something when you meet that person, but I like to think of it more as a curiosity than a chemistry. Because a lot of times, especially when you feel that immediate lightning bolts, you know, where you lose track of time and you can't think of anything else afterwards and you feel weak in the knees, a lot of times that actually is our body signaling to us

Pump the brakes. Hold on. Danger, danger. Like I noticed something here that we're not consciously aware of because...

it's matching the story. It's matching the fairy tale in our minds. And so we're like, oh, so this is good. And whenever people tell me like, I had a great first date, I spent six hours and then I went to his place and then we had drinks and then I'm like, oh, you didn't have a great first date because true chemistry develops over time. It's in those small moments. It's in the interactions that you have. It's in the in-between spaces that

of like, oh, I met that person and now I'm thinking about that person. I can't wait to see them again. And then we have another date and then we have more anticipation. And I say this from the other side. I've been now with my husband for 21 years. I can't even believe I'm saying that, but for 21 years I've been with my husband and the chemistry that I feel towards him

is so much deeper than the chemistry when we met because I know him on a different level. I trust him on a different level. I can relax into that feeling of being in partnership. That's worth a million butterflies, but I just have to get people to that point.

I would imagine it's hard to get people to that point. I want to know how I feel about me when I'm with somebody, not how do they make me feel, but how do I feel about myself when I'm with them? Do they bring out the qualities that I want in myself or am I trying to pretend like I'm somebody else? Am I...

Do I feel like they're valuing my time and who I am as a person or just trying to boost themselves up? It's that making sure that I'm falling in love with myself because of how they see me and not falling in love with them because I want them to see me in a certain way. A hundred percent. And that is also something that I talk about in the book is

that we want to get into the feeling of being with someone and, and that interoception of like both, you know, I was saying a minute ago, being in your body, like what sensations physically are coming up for me, but also emotionally, how, how does this person make me feel? And this is why in the book, I also talk about slow love. It's a lot,

easier to understand those signals and to be able to read them when you are taking it slower. Because when we get caught up in chemistry, it's a lot of the momentum that starts driving the dates. And that's where we're blowing through the red flags because we're going so fast. We're trying to make it fit. And we're not checking in with like, wait,

do I feel safe with this person? Do I feel like I am being my whole self? Do I feel heard? Are they listening to me? Are they being patient with me? Am I being patient with them? I've had other relationships where the person like really brought out the worst in me and it took meeting somebody that was, you know, had a secure attachment to notice I was different. Like you were just saying, I wasn't like gaslighting or starting fights or looking for problems. You know, it was just like, oh,

This is just how it is. And it feels weird when it first happens too, because then you're like, okay, well, when's the other shoe going to drop? Why am I not anxious right now? Like what's happening? Yeah. When you're used to chaos, uh,

secure and calm feels like people will always write into my show saying like, well, I'm with somebody that they have my three must haves. They don't have my deal breaker. They seem to be, you know, secure. They're mature. They good communicator. But like, I don't know. I don't, is it,

Am I settling? Is this boring? And I'm like, no, like this is life. This is called life. Are you excited every day of your life? You know? We have all these things that come up in life that are going to make it exciting or terrifying or that you have to get through together. Is that person going to be able to be there for you in that moment and it not be this dramatic moment?

constant thing. I had such a great conversation with Damona Hoffman. We had to put it into two episodes and part two will come out next week anywhere you get your podcast or you can hop on my Patreon and it's available ad free anytime.