Alicia Keys: 5 Ways to Overcome Self Doubt & Build Confidence Within
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Hey, y'all. Nimminy here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman, Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

I felt like I had to protect myself from being hurt from people that I love. You got a special guest in the building. 90 million records sold. 16-time Grammy-winning musician. Alicia Keys. You're going to get to that pole. You see that light? After the pole, you're going to get to that light. You see that tree after the light? You're going to get to that tree. And I discovered that that is how we get where we're going. If there's something that you love, go after it because it's meant for you.

The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only, Jay Shetty.

Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. I'm so grateful for the amazing conversations that I get to have, which are all about human evolution, growth, purification, and cleansing. Today's guest is someone who has talked about this at length in her amazing memoir, in her documentaries, in so many forms, and

And today I'm so excited that we finally have her on the podcast in the flesh, in person, although her voice and her energy speaks through the microphone at any time. Today's guest is the one, the only Alicia Keys, a 16-time Grammy award-winning singer. Let me say that again, 16-time Grammy award-winning singer, songwriter, musician, producer, filmmaker,

founder of Key Soul Care, which you'll be hearing about today, New York Times bestselling author, film, television, and Broadway producer as well, accomplished actress, entrepreneur, and a powerful force in the world of activism. Alicia is one of the original founders of She Is The Music, an initiative to create change for women and build an equal future for music.

Alicia sold over 65 million records, over 5 billion streams, and built an unparalleled repertoire of hits and accomplishments. Hell's Kitchen, the 13-time Tony Award-nominated original stage musical Alicia diligently worked for 13 years to create, opened on Broadway at the Schubert Theatre on April 20th, 2024.

Today we're talking about Alicia's holistic beauty and skincare line, Keys Soul Care, which I can't wait for you all to try. Welcome to On Purpose, Alicia Keys. That's so weird. Like when you do all of that, there's something about it that's just so fascinating. And wow. Wow.

And thank you for having me. And I can't believe we're in the flesh for the first time on this show. On this show. You know what I mean? This is so good. And I love your show. And I love your life's purpose. It's so beautiful. So thank you for having me in your space. I'm loving this.

You've been so wonderful to me over the years, honestly. We've had such a sweet relationship whenever we've collaborated. Right. And from day one, you've always been so giving. But seeing as you reacted to that in that way, I wonder whether little Alicia, if she saw that that was her life ahead, what would have been her reaction if she heard all of those things were going to happen in her life? Like, you lying. Like, you lying, right? I mean...

You know, as a kid, I really do remember having these dreams and visions and desires and wishes. But you just don't know what is going to come for you. You don't know what's in your world or what's going to come into your world. And I think a lot of times we are built to doubt ourselves.

the possibilities for ourselves. And so for self-preservation and protection, we say, I mean, it's probably not going to be that way for me, or, you know, you know how it goes for me. You do these things. And I remember doing these things. And it wasn't until I stopped doing those things that things really started to change. So I still have a piece of inside of me that that is that little girl that's kind of like, you know, you protect, you want to protect yourself.

what might go wrong. And so I find that I do that sometimes, which maybe is what happened when you just rattled off all those things. And I was a little bit like, that is so crazy and weird and strange and amazing at the same time. Yeah. Well, that's very relatable, I think, for people to hear that right now, to think that there was a time in your life where doubts and

and anxiety and fear would creep in further. It always exists for all of us, but that it controlled a part of your life. What were some of the doubts and fears and anxieties you had growing up, whether it was to your dreams or whether it was to life in general? Yeah, what do you mean about when you were a runner? How about yesterday? You know what I mean? How about like three days ago? Like...

As a kid growing up, I think some of my fears really circulated around. I remember I felt fearful that I wouldn't or I felt like I had to protect myself from being hurt from people that I loved. I remember that. That was a thing. And I had to figure my way through that. There was a sense of lack that I felt.

was worried about. I was worried about this state of lack or not having enough money or not having enough, not being able to hold on to what you started to get or things like that. I had to do a lot of work around that. That was a lot. That was a big one because I mean, you really can perpetuate that cycle just simply by the fact that you believe it can happen.

And so that was a big one. I think that there was a lot of fear or anxiety or worry around rejection. There was a lot of that, especially as I started to become more a public figure where people could kind of choose to like or dislike. It was a difficult journey to understand that you're never...

going to please everyone, period. And you're going to spend your, you're going to tear yourself apart trying to like make sure every single thing is the way someone else wants it to be. But I had a lot of fear about that. And I really, it was, it was a struggle for me. And I, you know, I wanted to be accepted. I wanted to be liked. I wanted to be, you know, I wanted to hear a positive reflection back to me, you know? And so it took a long time to kind of be like,

Yeah, I don't, I can't depend on that. You know, I have to find my own stability. I have to find my own intuition. I have to find what I believe in. And at least I can stand on that. At least I can say, I really believe that one, you know, if it didn't work out, but I really believed it and I'm proud of it. You know what I mean? And that's a big one. You know, talk about even yesterday, I mean, Hell's Kitchen, where we talked about Hell's Kitchen, which is my musical, which has been a big dream in the making. Yeah.

There were moments where I'm like, is this going to work? Like, what if the whole, I have this whole vision. I know what I want. But what if for some reason the whole thing doesn't go the way I want? What does that mean? I mean, you have many, many, many dollars. You have investors that you promise them to trust you. Can I carry this? Can I hold this? Can I manifest this?

I mean, I would speak to my kids about it just because I wanted them to know that it's scary. You know, it's scary to dream. But does that mean I'm not going to dream it or not going to try it? No, I have to. So...

Tons of things have been that. I feel like so many people who are listening right now would say, Alicia, I feel the same way. I talk to myself in my head and I think I can't do it. I'm not meant for it. It's not going to happen for me. And at the same time, they have this voice inside of them that says, you're made for more. You're made of more.

I know I need to believe in myself. And we kind of feel this internal battle. How did you, what was the work you had to do in order to go from someone who was anxious, doubtful to become someone who manifested this beautiful, incredible full life? Not that it's easy, not that it came immediately, but what was the work in the beginning stages that you had to reorient your mind?

That's a great question. I think one of the things that I had to come to terms with is that pretty much nothing is going to come in a timeframe that you think is going to come. So that's, and that's helpful because I think a lot of us are, you know, I mean, we're in such a digital space and we see all these things and we're bombarded with all these images and we're bombarded with all these kind of like carefully crafted posts of perfection and

You get freaked out about it. But I'm, you know, and fortunately, I didn't really have to grow up looking at that. So I empathize deeply with this generation. We have to evolve as young people on a whole other level than I even had to navigate. But what I mean by and why it relates is

I felt like I grew up in New York City, everybody's a hustler, you gotta go fast, you gotta make it happen, you gotta stay up all night and get up crack of dawn and it's not gonna happen if you don't. And I realized, wait, as hard as I try to push the thing forward,

When it's time, it's time. And if it's not time, it don't matter what I do. It doesn't matter how much sleep I don't get. It's not going to be time until it's time. And so I think that that steadiness of like kind of you just have to put one foot in front of the other is just as simple as that. And I remember when I did my first marathon, I ran in Greece and I figured I'd never do another marathon. So I might as well do something unforgettable. But I couldn't figure out how I was going to make it.

Everything hurt. My feet hurt. My back hurt. My lower back hurt. My abs hurt. My body ached. And I couldn't figure out how am I going to get there? And I remember I was running with my friend who trained with me and helped me. And he said, you see that pole? You're going to get to that pole.

You see that light after the pole, you're going to get to that light. You see that tree after the light, you're going to get to that tree. And it was literally that step by step. And so I discovered that that is how we get where we're going. Like this increment of small determined moments. And so I think that as well as coupled with taking that negative talk out of your space, like being very conscious about

It happens. It's in your head. You hear it. You're like, tell yourself the opposite thing. I mean, that's how I started to really get into affirmations, which I realized that I had to create what I wanted to hear. And oftentimes, it's so many times, it's the barrage of everyone else's doubts and fears. And your parents, you inherited theirs and you inherited all your peers' things. And you got all these things inside you that are not even yours anymore.

And so I had to create this connection with affirmations that allowed me to say what I wanted to hear. And so I had to become very mindful to notice the negative so that I could replace it. And when I did that, it really changed everything. It changed a bunch. And I had to stop saying things that I heard my mother say. I had to stop saying things that I heard whoever else I trusted say because it wasn't serving me because she had picked up some stuff.

That I didn't need to pick up. I didn't need to hold it. Stuff like that has been how. How many marathons have you done now? I've done two. Okay, that's impressive. I did Greece and I did New York. Yeah, wow. And I realized the craziest thing. I realized that what I was experiencing, that ache, that pain, that lower back, the thing was childbirth.

- Oh. - I didn't know that 'cause the first time I hadn't given birth, but when I gave birth, I recognized the sensations and it was similar to a marathon.

It was kind of crazy, but there was a strength there that was really empowering. So only two, my brother's trying to get me to do another one. I'm like, nah, B, I'm not doing it. My wife's doing London this year, I think, for the first time. She's been training. It's cool. When you do it, it's phenomenal. And you really discover that your mind is stronger than your physical being and

And you really can find this place that you didn't know you could. Absolutely. What was your affirmation this morning? Hmm.

My affirmation depends on the day, right? So today my affirmation is just I'm going to be on time because I struggle to get my kids to school on time. It's killing me. My youngest son has just changed schools and he's going to another school. So now I'm taking both kids to two separate places. I'm struggling. And my second affirmation is I forgive myself.

It's okay. Like grace. Have grace for yourself. You're trying your best. It's not like you're messing around and doing whatever. You're really trying your best and you're going to figure out the rhythm of this thing. Have some grace. I love those. They're so practical. I think all of us can do all of them. Right? They're great. Yeah. And the time one's funny because it reminds me of my mom. My mom had to do the same for me and my sister. It's not easy. Because I went to an all-boys school. She went to an all-girls school. And so my mom would have to drop her.

and then drop me or the other way around sometimes. It is, it's more than a notion. You think I could do this if I just leave by this time. And for whatever reason, that time comes and goes over and over. So it's all good. But I love how simple that is. Like, I think a lot of people also think affirmations always have to be this

profound, like incredible statement. And you're like, it's just to be on time and it's to forgive myself. And that's so real because we need to forgive ourselves every day. Yeah. It's okay. It's okay. It's really okay. So, you know, cause you want the best, you want the best for yourself. You want the best for your family. You want the best outcome, you know? And

And it all comes from a good place, but I think sometimes we can beat ourselves up so badly about things that, you know, we can just give ourselves a little bit of a break and we can start again and try again and it's okay. What was the last thing you beat yourself up about really badly where you were like, I really made myself feel uncomfortable? You know, I really try not to do that. I really do. Like I really, I feel like I have a pretty good sense of self-worth.

And I feel like I have a pretty good sense also of like reality. And so I don't over obsess and I don't over kind of like, I'm not overly mean to myself, but I did think about that the other day. And I said, I did this, I didn't put it up yet, but I did this, I do these things called piece of piece. And I call this speak to me nice. Because you're not going to let

someone else talk to you just any type of way. You're like, excuse me, how did you just, you just speak to me nice. But you yourself will speak to yourself in these crazy ways.

And so I kind of was like just reflecting on you telling yourself, me telling myself, speak to me nice. Like talk to me with kindness and love. I learned that from my son a lot because my youngest, he's like, he's a little tough on himself. And I'm like, hey, speak to yourself nice. And so...

I think that is something that I've learned how to embody and I really try not to spin out too much. But there are times, of course, you just, you know,

But I'm like, this is really doing no good. I'm really freaking out. And I was just like, why? What are we doing in this space, in this cycle? Sometimes you got to freak out though. Because you got to learn something from it. You have to take away whatever that is or that energy or that person who's spinning you like that or that trigger that's triggering you like that. And you do have to kind of spin out just to be like, whoa, that actually gets to me a lot. Why? I

I've been learning a lot of that too. Yeah. There's a, I always like to remind people that guilt blocks growth and shame doesn't help you shift and judgment doesn't help you transform. Guilt blocks growth completely. It makes you wallow more in your guilt and shame makes you feel stuck.

and shackled by it. And transformation is stunted when we're not able to be nice, kind, give ourselves grace. And it's funny because we almost think we can guilt ourselves into moving. Like, oh, if I guilt myself enough, then maybe I'll change. I'll be motivated. Maybe I'll be motivated. Maybe you will for like a couple of days.

But over time it runs out. If you shame yourself into change, maybe for a couple of days you'll eat better, work out more, whatever it is that you have your personal challenges with. But it's not sustainable. Like shame and guilt are not sustainable emotions and they run out of steam very quickly. And I was thinking about something that you've spoken about before is your journey with your own skin.

And like how you've had skin anxiety. And I know at one point you went completely like no makeup at one period of time in your life. And then now, of course, you have this, you know, you're in the beauty industry now as well. And you really care about how people care about their internal and the casing that we all have. And I know that you, you know, live a conscious, spirited life, which I really want to dive into, but...

I think often those of us who live spiritual lives, we can be quite negligent of our casing and of this body. And you can kind of disconnect from it. Yeah, disconnect from it. Right, right. And so I wanted to ask you, how has your relationship changed with your skin that was something that brought you anxiety? Oh my gosh. To feeling more confident in your skin. I mean, it was forever. It was literally forever. Yeah.

that I really struggled with my skin. And you know, you're a teenager and your hormones and you get it and it's cool. And then all of a sudden I was like 18 and then I was 23 and then I was 28 and then I was 30 and then I was like 35 and I'm like, whoa!

When does this thing stop? Like when? I thought like 16, 18, 21 maybe. Why is it continuing? And it was really hard to, especially to be in spaces where you would present yourself and you would feel just so self-conscious. I just felt so self-conscious. And I'm like, but there's a big bump right here. And then most people are like, I don't even see the damn bump, but I see the bump right here and it's huge.

And it feels really uncomfortable, you know? You just feel uncomfortable. You want to know why, too. You want to know what's the matter. Is something wrong? Why am I thought? What can I do to help this? And so that definitely caused me a lot of anxiety. I started in the music world when I was 18. And so that was right kind of at the precipice and then the stress of the whole universe started.

of music was just so much. And I was trying my best to play it cool. I'm like, I can handle it. I can do it. But it was stressful. It was a whole new world. I had to carry a new weight on my shoulders and try to, you know, kind of like be calm while or cool while doing it. And it was tricky. And my skin, I learned that my body reacts to stress. Our bodies react to stress.

My personal body physically reacts to stress. Many of our personal bodies do this, which is obviously why even many dis-eases come to us from stress because physically it's a physical manifestation of this feeling, which is why it is so important for us to figure out like what gives you peace? What calms you down? What makes you feel safe and secure?

Like you're in your skin and you're yourself and these type of things. And so, of course, I didn't know what that was for a long time, but I realized that it was these relationships I was attracting and it was the, you know, the level of commitment I was agreeing to that left no space for me to

or to sleep or to be with my friends and, you know, do those, have those outlets that do give you a sense of calm. And so my skin was so reactive that I said one day to myself, if I one day, I'm going to make something that fixes this, this. Yeah.

I'm going to do something about this because I know I'm not the only one. And I realized as I began to live and experience so many different parts of my life, motherhood and raising young kids and finding time for yourself and getting rid of those toxic energies that were attacking me in real life, I realized that you really have to take care of your soul.

Like, you have to take care of your soul. So this philosophy of soul care is,

really came from all of these understandings and all of these realizations that no one's going to do it for me. As much as I really, really wish someone would stand up and be like, you, you're not good for her. Get out of here. That thing, you, you need to stop. No, I have to be the judge of that. And therefore I have to find my way to the understanding of how do I hear myself to know what is good and what is not, or what is real or what is true. And

And so there were many things that brought me to that place. Some of them were meditations that brought me there and really brought me to a more intuitive space. Some of them were just practicing the art of like, no, what do you think? No, I know six friends said this. Or I know that very strong energy that always tells everybody what they think said this, but what do you think? Right.

And that became the practice of soul care and also these ideas of ancient rituals and

What are some special ways that we can have peace and calm? And I was attracted to crystals and their powers and their meanings. I was attracted to journaling. And I have a very difficult time. As a kid, I had a difficult time expressing my truth. And I realized that when I would journal or do the stream of consciousness, I could actually just release it. I could let it go. And if I'm not good at doing that to someone else because I didn't trust as fully, I

I can do it with myself, you know? And so these practices of how do you kind of like depend on yourself to find your own grounding became my idea of what soul care is, which eventually became how I said, I'm going to make that thing to fix that thing.

became this Key Soul Care. And the idea was, to me, it's a philosophy. It's a way of life. It's a lifestyle. To me, you know, the beauty industry or skincare industry, just like the music industry, all of it is kind of creating how to live within the chaos. And so how do we do it? Nobody teaches us normally. It's a blessing if someone does. But

But normally it's not. So finding these ways through affirmations, through the idea of really connecting to yourself and using the affirmations are on every bottle because the idea is you wash your face, you do that every day with the golden cleanser. You can also think about how I'm devoted to this moment because so many times we're over here, over there, back there, over there. How can you just be right here with yourself right now? And so the idea is like creating this mixture of ancient rituals and where skin meets soul.

And soul care, because we have air care, hair care, nail care, body care, home care. But we never had soul care. Why? So I wanted to start it. Yeah, that's so beautiful. I mean, I couldn't agree more. As someone who was very negligent of a lot of this stuff, like growing up and not really thinking about it, I've seen the value of, I'm a big fan of affirmations. I think even when it comes to

cleansing my face, what that means, what that feels like, how different I feel internally because of it, how it can be a reminder to continue to cleanse and detox the soul as well as that which is around me. There's so much of that connection from body, mind, spirit, and soul that I think we lose and we don't realize how interconnected they all are. What you were saying about stress, I found really powerful because

So for me, my stress shows up as tightness in my body. Like I feel my stress is like it gets stored in my neck or my shoulders. And then I'm just feeling tight, even though I was like, I didn't know I was stressed. I didn't know what I was going through. And as you're saying, for some people, it shows up in their skin. I was going to ask you, there's a bit of an addiction we also have to stress and drama.

And there's this feeling sometimes where we prefer it when we have stress and busyness and we're workaholics and we like the drama. And almost when there's peace, we almost get confused and lost because... Scared even. Exactly. We get scared, right? So what would you say to someone who's actually listening to us right now and they're like, wow, I just realized that's who I am. I actually like... I choose stress. Yeah.

Do you think people come to that realization? I don't think people do it consciously, but I think unconsciously when I sit with people, they'll find that their inherited choice is to naturally stay busy, work a lot, create drama in their relationship, whatever it is, because we're more used to it. Not because we're bad people or because we're wrong, but because we kind of feel familiar with,

And I'll give you the opposite example. I have lots of friends who will be like, oh, I'm dating this guy and it's really peaceful. I'm bored. And so there's that, right? Where people actually have like peace and stillness and connection. We're like, yeah, there's nothing to talk about. So I don't think it's something that people do on purpose. And I don't think it's something that people even do it consciously. But I think we do like to stay busy and stressed to some degree.

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Seriously, I'm doing it now. See what I did there?

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I am familiar with that as well. And I kind of was just telling you that I had the best summer. And it was my first summer where, you know, the last two summers I was on tour. And obviously those are just such a monster universe to try to like harness everything.

And this summer was just like, I was like, I am creating peace this summer. I am doing the things that everything I can imagine I want to do. I'm doing it this summer. And it was really liberating, really liberating. But it also does reflect to myself, back to your point, the connection to the busyness equaling success or the busyness equaling, you know, something positive. When...

Surely there's positivity there for sure, but there is an addiction that I think comes with this idea of having to feel every minute and feel every second. And also there's the avoidance that we're all likely experiencing where we don't really want to face avoidance.

all the things underneath things. So if we stay as busy as possible, we are like, literally, we don't even have time to think about those things or to reflect on those things. And so I do understand that lifestyle because I, I feel like for quite a while, I didn't even, I, I would just say yes, because I'm used to saying yes. Yes. Right. And I, and I realized, wait, okay, you don't have to say yes.

So do you want to say yes? Do you actually want to say yes? Or do you just feel obligated to say yes for any number of reasons? So I think it's very powerful. I think you're right. There's totally the drama that we are, we've been conditioned. That's the right word. Right? To...

it's around us. It's what we see every day. We've seen our parents experience it in different ways. We've seen our friends go through it in different ways. And therefore, that becomes the normal for us. And when we kind of crave it, we become addicted to it.

even without knowing it. So I think that practice of like that, that perhaps is one of the opening when you said, how did you get to a place where you could, you know, find yourself in a

where you are, I think part of that practice really did have to come to spending time with myself. And I made every excuse why I couldn't spend time with myself. My kids, I can't do it. My kids, I can't leave them by themselves. I can't do it because I got to, who else is going to do? I got to feed the family. We got to do... And they all seem valid. Makes sense to me. Yeah, that's true. Your kids, you should probably make sure your kids are good. And

If I don't make sure I'm good, how can I make sure anybody is good ever? And so spending time with myself was, I fought against it so much. But when I started to do it, I realized that I was more powerful than I'd ever been before.

And I was faster. I was able to do things quicker and more efficiently because I wasn't so cloudy, you know? And that was cool. That was cool. When you start to feel that way, you're like, oh, I don't have to spend so much time doing whatever action because I actually know what I want to do. And I'm decisive. Man, that felt so good. I had never felt decisive before in my life. I'd never felt clear without...

thousands of other opinions. I never felt like my own self. So that was big. But spending time with myself was, I believe, one of the keys to that. Yeah. When I'm hearing you

talk about how much we have to filter from the outside world. You mentioned a few times your parents, people's parents, like a lot of, a lot comes from our parents. And I know you spoke about it so beautifully in your book that I got to interview about, which I love that it was such a, such a beautiful memoir that you wrote a few years back. And I was wondering what, I always think about our parents giving us gifts and gaps.

They give us certain gifts and they leave certain gaps. And we end up spending our whole life trying to get other people to fill those gaps and give us the same gifts. And it creates a lot of good things and issues. So I was going to ask you, what would you say are the gifts you got from your mother and father? And what were the gaps that they left and how did they affect you? Okay, let me sit up for a sec. Fix my shirt real quick.

Um, the gifts, the gift, one of the gifts that I got from my mother, I would say is her, um, is her strength. I feel like I really, I really bore witness to a woman who was like, not to be like, she just really, I don't know if she wore that as an armor, you know, or what that was, but I found her to be quite like strong.

like straight and clear and strong and there was kind of no getting around it. And you kind of just knew, okay, this is what it is. And I feel like I really received a lot from that as a woman, as a young woman, as a woman who would have to be at the forefront of her own life and career and really have to be in my space of power and

be around a lot of people that want to take your power, steal your light, you know, lead you in the wrong spaces. I had to kind of be in my strength and I did receive that from her. What I received from my father was, I think, I think, I think I also received a level of self-determination.

Because I had a unique relationship. My mother and my father were not married or together. And so, one, I had to learn that that's actually not unique or different. You know, there's not some kind of like family structure that's like the main one. I think we get painted that picture so much and then we feel uncomfortable that ours doesn't look like that. But so I had to kind of know who I was also.

Even in our relationship. And so I got a sense of self as well. Sense of self. The gap from the sense of self that I received from my father was probably maybe some feelings of not being worthy. So I received some of that. I had to restructure my brain around. And from my mother, I think I got a sense of self.

I had to fix everything because in a lot of ways, if she was strong and angry, I had to be like soft and accommodating and kind of fix the situation. And so I think I received some of that, which I also had to rewire. No, no, no, I can't fix everything.

I just can't. And I can't be in my relationships like that because that's not going to work. Man, took lots of time. But those are my gifts and my gifts. I'm asking that to many people. This is a great question. Yeah. I think it has such a, we don't realize how much of an impact it has on every relationship that comes after those relationships with our parents.

and how it becomes like the guiding map of our whole life. And then you look back and you go, why am I expecting someone to give me this gift? It's like, cause my parents gave me it. Now I want everyone that loves me to show me they love me in this way. And

And I want them to fill this exact gap. And if they don't fill this gap, then they don't love me. Because that was where that self-worth you were saying of like, because if you were made to feel unworthy in a certain way, then you think anyone who doesn't show you love in that way, then they don't think you're worthy. But they may not. They're not aware of the gift and the gap. And they've got their own as well. So that's the complex part. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. And I mean, obviously you've been married for what, 14 years now? Yes. Congratulations. Thank you.

Thank you. It's amazing. Wow. That's beautiful. We're like, whoa, that's crazy. It's brilliant. We love it. We love it. Yeah. I always, whenever I see you, Buffy, you seem so happy and joyous and, you know, complimentary to each other. I think...

What I find really fascinating in relationships is what people end up teaching each other. What would you say Swizz has been able to teach you and what have you taught him? He's definitely taught me how to be like much more in the flow. Like it's all about kind of the magic of the moment and allowing the flow, like just slide into the slipstream, let it happen. Like let it happen. That's been a big lesson he's given me. And

What I've been able to give him is probably a little bit more of like, let's design what we want to happen. You know, as we're letting it happen, let's also like design it and craft it and strategize it and create it and schedule it so that it can really, really happen. And I love how we balance each other like that. There's been just so much growth between us and so in such a positive way because we

we really do compliment each other. So it feels natural in those ways. - So I'm you and my wife's Swiss. So I'm like that, I'm very intentional, very like, I'm like strategy.

designed, intentional life. Right. And she's just like this ball of energy. But I wanted to ask you because those things seem like they're at loggerheads with each other, right? Like they seem like on the outside, that would seem like, well, if he's like go with the flow and you're like, yeah, but we need to know what we're doing. What time? That sounds like a terrible matchup. Like that sounds like a fight ready to, you know, wait to happen. Yeah, an explosion because that's completely contradictory to

in terms of him being in flow and same with Radhi, like being completely this bundle and ball of energy and joy. And then we're both trying to be more thoughtful and strategic. So how does that, how have you allowed each other to operate as who you are and take without feeling like,

someone's trying to change you or that you've got to be someone else or they've got to be someone else. Yeah, no, I think it's a good point. Well, first of all, I don't think, I think actually it tends to work better when there's two different perspectives, right? Because if you think exactly what I think and I think exactly what you think, then we might get to that place of

boredom that we discussed. But what I took from what you said on board, I took almost like there's not a stimuli, right? There's not like the stimulation that comes sometimes. And I think that might happen if you're almost too similar. There's a stimulation from meeting an opposition and meeting like a different way of thinking and then having to think about it and put it into your world. So yeah, I think that...

The flow is just because I love how he thinks and how he thinks is so uniquely him and it does inspire me. And yet I can still be connected to my own. And similarly, I think how I think does inspire him. He says, let me think about that more. Let me put a little more thought into how we're doing this.

And yet doesn't have to take him from his own. So ever since the day our vows were about this idea of loving with an open hand, there's a beautiful thought of loving with an open hand and that everyone should be free to fly as they want to fly. There should never be a closed hand over around someone. Mm-hmm.

Oh, I really like that. You know, it should be this open hand. And so we really have always looked at it like that. He'll always say, she's her own boss. I don't have anything to do with whatever she's choosing. Don't call me and ask me to try to get her. I can't. She's her own boss. So talk to her about whatever that might be.

And so there's always been that respect there that we each have our own way of flowing and it works. It works. Yeah, that's beautiful to hear. And I love that. Did you write that? Was that a poem that you came across? I want to remember where that came from, but I wrote a song about it that never came out.

No way. Yeah. And I, and I always loved that metaphor. So do I. Just as when you were moving your hands for anyone who's not watching. Right. Alicia was moving her hands from being open to like holding one of her hands closed. And we do that. We like, we like...

stifle each other and hold each other and demand these things and don't want people to be free to express and feel fear and worry when people are bright and shining. And we feel, you know, sometimes afraid of that, that they would somehow not need us anymore or not want us anymore. And, you know, but there's this beautiful thing of just being this equanimity. That's what I've always experienced with him. There's like this equanimity between us that I've never felt anywhere else.

And it's natural. We just have a similar frequency that we vibrate on and it just works. And I've been in situations where it's like, man, I kind of have to keep...

Can you come up here with me or I have to go, you know, find that. But it's like, we're not quite on the same level. And so that means something, you know, finding that frequency that vibrates with you is, is a thing. Yeah. No, I love that. I wrote a chapter in my last book called your partner is your guru. And it's that I feel that way. Like, you know, and, and I think that the quality that's required so much in long-term relationships is humility. Hmm.

And it's the hardest quality to have with your partner often where we have our biggest egos.

And we say this is the person we love the most, but they're the person we have the least humility with. Like if they don't like what we're wearing or if they give us feedback or... We're all like... That's... It hurts the most because... It does. Because the love is so, so, so pure. Yeah. Yes. Good point. But it stops us sometimes from opening up as you're talking about, as you have been able to. Right. Like it stops you from sometimes learning from that person because you think your way is the right way or that...

What you learned and what you inherited was the right way to solve a problem, especially I'm imagining when you have kids. That's what just hit me like a ton of birds because we do find ourselves in those circumstances where naturally something that he might feel is quite different from what I might feel in regards to the kids. And, you know, I think that anytime that's happened, I can reflect that there surely is

is a better way of communicating what it is. And I find that that is the most powerful part. How do you choose to communicate with the people that you love is really the key to kind of life. Like literally that energy that you're giving and how you're choosing to communicate will make the difference between something where you both can evolve and both can say, I get it. I see what you mean and you can see what I mean and we can kind of find our way through it.

or a big argument, which is just a pain. Because then you got to do all that, which we actually don't argue. We don't argue. Surely we get upset.

upset or we disagree, but there's not like a yelling and screaming and an arguing and a chaos and a slamming and a throwing. There's not that. We respect each other too much for that. And I really appreciate that that's the energy because I do also appreciate that many people have to

or choose to or find themselves in the place of experiencing that type of interaction. And man, I mean, that is just so stressful and hard all around. So I'm proud that we can find that place. And it is possible. It is possible. Well, it sounds like you've both been quite intentional about your relationship from your vows from the beginning of like, what does this look like? And what are the barriers around disagreements?

Right. Like we're allowed to disagree. And the same with me and my wife, we have a rule as well. Like no yelling, no raising the voice, no, obviously nothing physical, but like there has to be a very clear way of solving this. And we're allowed to disagree. We're allowed to end things.

on completely two different sides of a conversation. We don't have to end with the perfect resolution. It may not be the way, but we don't have to get there in a violent, aggressive or tension-filled way through our words or our actions or how loud we are because that pushes the person away so much. I've read this poem that was talking about when people argue, they have to shout and scream because that's how distant their souls are.

And so even though you're standing right in front of them, their soul is so far away from you that you have to shout in order to communicate, but you don't realize that that just pushes them further away.

And that actually if you whispered and you were quiet and you would actually draw them closer. Ooh, that's a bar. Yeah. And so, you know, I love that. I love that metaphor. And I need to hear this song that you've written about the hands. I'll find it. I'll find it. At least I'll send it to you. But I'll find it. I really like it. It's special. It's a special song. I wrote it when I came back from Egypt.

And so it was a while ago, but I took a special trip to Egypt and I did a lot of songwriting right after that. And that was kind of one of them. And it was actually in honor of my godmother who did experience quite an abusive relationship. And so the line was the tightest grip relationship.

is an open hand. I love that. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Yeah. How do you decide that a song doesn't come out? Like how does, how does, because how many songs does an artist make that never? So many. Like in your, in your lifetime, like how many songs never would, would someone have never? Two, three hundred. Wow. Yeah. So that's like,

20 albums left. So many. So many that just half done or didn't quite just come together or just didn't have that special thing enough to go to the next level or time passes and your relationship to yourself is changing. So what you were expressing at one point just doesn't represent where you are now. And so then that kind of has its own. In fact, one of my albums,

Keys has a song on it called Is It Insane? And Keys came out in like 2023.

And Is It Insane was written in like 2000. It's like, but it was not ready until that moment. And then it was ready. So back to that whole thing where nothing's ever ready when you think it's time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then finally you're like, oh, it's time. I get it. Yeah. And time's usually, when you said that earlier, I thought of it. I was like, time is actually what puts anxiety onto everything. If we say I have to have achieved this by this age,

that's now the anxiety because if it took 23 years, it took 23 years and you got there in the end. Right. But if you said this has to be ready this year, that's what put anxiety on everything. And I was thinking about that. I was like, you're so right that when I make something

not on the universe's time and not on divine timing and it's on my timing that's when you're stressed that's what i'm stressed about freaking out yeah and of course there are things you have to like if you have contracts and commitments and you have to get it in a time yeah you do your best yeah but it's when we're asking or trying to manifest things that we put

time on it changes. What you were saying, you love crystals early. I was wondering what's your favorite crystal and, and where did you find it? How did you learn about them? I feel like you have such a deeply spiritual side and I don't want to hear about it because I don't think we've dived into this before. I love that's a good one, man. Okay. So where did my love for crystals come first? I think that I've learned that going to these crystal shops is

there's something so beautiful about the process. And I remember doing a beautiful book called The Artist's Way. Julia Cameron, I believe her name is. It's like tried and true book, like classic. And one of the things that was beautiful about it is she says, take yourself on an artist's date. So once a week you were meant to take yourself on an artist's date, which meant you could go with no one except yourself. And you had to think of what would serve you best.

on that date, which is quite hard for many of us. Like, what will make me happy? Where would I like to go? And crystal shops is what I discovered was one of the things I loved. I loved the peace and the serenity. I loved exploring every name. I found that if I went to one,

it would be exactly the one I needed. I would just look at the way it looked and I would pick it up and I'm like, that's what I need right now. I need more courage. I need more manifestation. I need more clarity.

When I did take my trip to Egypt that we talked about, I learned that what was native to where we were was the lupus lazuli, that blue, powerful stone. And I just became fascinated with it. So the more that I discovered, the more that crystals became a part of my life. Even in my son's pocket, I'll put a crystal if he's feeling worried or...

or if he's feeling like, or if he needs a little grounding, I'll put a crystal in his pocket or I'll tell him hold it just because I do know there is something about the power of crystals. And that in fact is one of the most kind of secret parts of key soul care because the crystals are infused into the offerings. And we have these beautiful offerings called the illuminating serum, which I just love because

We need to illuminate as much as possible. And they are really based on these crystals. So one's the Moonstone Aura. And that is so good manifestation. One is the Bronzeite Aura. And that is all about courage. And one is the Quartz, the Golden Quartz Aura. So each one has these powers that even you should put on your body, in your universe. And I just love that because there is such a...

There is a strength. There is a power. There is a mysticism. There are these ancient rituals. Like our ancestors did these things hundreds and hundreds of years ago. And we've sometimes lost touch with those rituals and those ancient ways. And so I love discovering them. And they really give me a sense of like...

I feel like I have something in my pocket that like is going to help me. And I really, really love it or on my, on my body. Yeah. Now you can put it on your body. It feels like peace. Okay. And it illuminates you. So it also gives you that glow that's just really already within you. Yeah. That's the point. No, I love that you've infused it in the offerings because I feel like

I too love that. Like sometimes you see a crystal and you're just drawn to it or you see a gem and you're just drawn to it. And you can't explain it because it's not like you were into that color or you were into that shape. And all of a sudden you're just like, why am I attracted to this thing? Because you need it. Because you need it, exactly. And I think we've lost the ability to trust ourselves on what we need because everything's become...

didactic and tactical and kind of too formulated. Wow. Sometimes life can seem challenging and overcoming problems can seem impossible. But when you focus on your problems, it can keep you from seeing the good in your life. One thing that helps me when I need a change in perspective is acknowledging the small wins in life.

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This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Take a moment to reflect on someone you're grateful for, maybe a friend, a mentor, or even your therapist. There are people who show up for us in big and small ways, and it's important to acknowledge that. But let's not forget to thank ourselves too. Life can be chaotic, and some days just getting through is a win. So be kind to yourself. You've overcome so much already.

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Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com forward slash Jay's top three to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com forward slash Jay's top three. I'm very moved by this because as we were just talking about kids and, you know, as a parent, you think about

We do take, we can, we have the power to take the trust from people when they feel like they can't trust themselves because we judge them on something that they've decided. And we do this as adults to each other. We do this as parents to kids. We do this as parents.

friends, you know, and we do this thing where we judge a person and now we've taken away a bit of their trust in themselves because they feel like, hmm, this person made fun of me when I did this. I won't do that. But your instinct was to do this and you loved it when you did it. You were happy, you were excited, you were giddy.

And perhaps we allow people to steal that from us, but many times we're not in a position of awareness. So we just find that we then distrust ourselves. And I think that's a big one because how can we start to trust ourselves again? How can we practice like, no,

No, this is good for me. You might not like it. It's cool. You don't have to do it. I'm not telling you to do it. I'm telling you I'm doing it. And I think that's really important. And I hope that we can first be a little bit more conscious of always injecting our opinion on everybody as parents, as friends, as elders. And secondly, to...

to as the people who have to navigate our way through that, remembering that if that was our first instinct and we felt joy with it, you know, then there was something in there to learn or explore or find the color in or curiosity. And I want us to do, I want us to not forget that. That's a big one you just said. No, you so well said. I couldn't agree with you more. And I remember when I first trained to be a coach and

The number one training was how you don't project your life and your limits onto anyone. Like that's the core skill because it's,

that's all we do all day like someone says their idea and we project our view to it right away right like someone's like hey i want to be a singer like alicia keys and you're like yeah yeah but that's probably not so you might as well yeah and it's like but you have no idea what they're saying you don't you're not listening to them there's no there's no learning and you're just projecting what you feel or someone says hey i think i'm quitting my job and pursuing my passion on this thing you're like no no no don't do that like that's risky

and it's like well maybe it's maybe they don't see yeah maybe it's needed maybe risk is okay for them and but we're so quick and you're so right that our friends our family and we we do that to others and we do to our partners as well like when they're just saying hey you know what i think i need a weekend off this weekend and you're like no maybe there's a few things you need to get done and they're like actually yeah and you're so what you said so beautifully is we stop people from trusting themselves like i think that really resonated with me and

I think that's why I feel the fact that you've infused all these crystals into your offerings. I love that because it's a daily reminder of trusting. Yes. That when you, I always say this to people, I'm like, we don't use our senses enough. Like the scent is so powerful. Mm.

Right? And your products smell amazing. So good. And the scent's amazing. And it's like, we underestimate how much we know what we need by scent. Like, I love it. I remember when I first got a massage and they brought out all the different oils. Oh, yes. And they said, smell which one you want. Which one? And they were like, you'll know by smelling. And I was like, what does that mean? And then you do it and then you're like, oh, wait a minute, I do know. I do know. Like, I do know that I need number three, which has lavender and eucalyptus or whatever it is. Right. Because I'm seeking rest and relaxation. Ah.

Or I do need citrus because I'm seeking energy. And you know, right? You do know. But we don't use that scent. We don't use our power of scent, of sight, of sound, of...

To know what we need. And the part that I love about what you said and the knowing, the affirmation on the illuminating serum is I give myself permission to glow. Because I just, so many times we just, or we stunt the growth or we stunt the glow or we feel embarrassed by the fact that we are, you know, bright and...

Or to your point about the addiction to the negative, like if we are feeling good, how many times have you felt good, but your friend wasn't feeling so good? So you kind of, they might say, well, how are you feeling? You're like, I'm all right. But you're really actually great. And you're actually glowing. And I think sometimes we dim, you know, I know we dim our light, which is another affirmation on the candle is, you know, this idea of not dimming your light. Right.

Like don't dial it back, you know, because we do it. And it's only because we don't, we want to be kind to the people that were around. But I think we, there's an inspiration that comes from giving yourself permission to glow. There's the empowerment that a person looks at you and says,

They don't, they look like, and I want to feel like that. Like I'm going to do more of that, you know, giving yourself that permission. I love that. I really, it's a really special reminder. What are your go-to rituals when you are having a day that is just hard, stressful, tough, demanding? What's your go-to non-negotiable set of rituals that Alicia Keys turns to when? When it's really, really crazy. Yeah, when it's really tough. I definitely find that

One of my go-tos is for sure a meditation. I just find that I try my best to meditate frequently so that I do find that that balances you. You don't have to kind of fix what's happening. You find the continuity with the balance. But I do find that when I need it,

I really, I really relate to a meditation. It kind of just brings me back to the center. It brings me back to, again, that quietness. I get a second of quiet. Even if I have to wake up before the kids, I'm going to wake up at 5.30 so I can have 20 minutes of just like, or I'm going to make up at 5.45, whatever it is. And I really...

find that settles my spirit. Because usually if I'm having a tough one, I'm not sleeping well either because it's just like the internal noise and all those things. So I really love to ground there. I will journal. I find that the journaling is also really, again, I've always had to just kind of release things

things more freely than I find I can do it other people. So that really helps a really good workout. Key, key, get me sweating, get me kind of like, you know, just like feel your power of your body. That helps me a lot. Um,

Then, of course, I'm going to wash my face. I'm going to release, as we talked about, the golden cleanser is going to let me let it go. I have this beautiful, rich transformation cream, and on it, it says, I welcome all circumstances as a catalyst for change. Wow. And so I can probably reflect on the fact that this isn't bad or good. This is just a catalyst for

to change something. And then I get my illuminating serum on because I'm going to be glowing and I'm giving myself the permission. And I do love a bath. I do love a bath. I do love back to the oils or the herbs. I find that even the crystals can come into play if I need to just kind of like

release something and definitely the intentions and the affirmations come into play because I find that whatever's bothering me, I'll kind of, it's something that's challenging me. Maybe I don't want to fail at something or I don't want to, I don't want something to go wrong or, and I kind of use that to say whatever it is that I might need. And, um, you know, Hey, sometimes it's just going to be a hard day. Maybe it'd be a hard week, maybe a hard month, but

Doing that consistently, I know I'm fueling myself and I'm pouring in there and I feel better. What works for kids?

Like what rituals do you feel you've actually been able to pass on? Because they're young and I always feel like a lot of parents want their kids to do things, but I feel like you may be mindful in knowing what works and what doesn't and them having their barriers. What do they like and what do they not like? Well, I used to force Egypt to meditate with me. I was like, you want whatever you want, come meditate with me. That worked for a while. He's really big now and he's 13. So I feel like I can still kind of push him into it, but...

It was cool because he, I think, when I do my meditation, he can say every word. So can Genesis. And even though they don't necessarily do it with me all the time, they know it and they feel it and they hear it. And so I do think that idea of kind of like just sitting with yourself again is a great practice for kids because, you know, it doesn't have to be long, five minutes. It's cool. Really quick.

A lot of the times I'm also talking to my kids a lot about gratitude. I think gratitude is the key, key. It's the most simple but potent key to changing the energy. I know I've felt times before where I'm like, I'm just pissed off because someone did something and I'm like, and I'm sick of it. I'm trying to tickle it. And I am steaming. And I'll just like start to list what I'm grateful for.

It changes everything, everything. And I try to also share with my kids that, you know, give thanks. Give thanks and also pray. Make a prayer for what it is you're thankful for and what it is you're looking for. And I promise you, you will open every door for yourself. I promise.

Every time I leave the room, my older ones, sometimes I'll pray with them. Sometimes I let him, you know, be in his own zone. And I say, don't forget to pray. Like, don't forget to be grateful and pray because the gratitude is like, it's key. I really do feel that it's a, it's a key ingredient to settling and definitely to joy.

Which I think is what we're all looking for. Absolutely. Right? Absolutely. It's joy. I love hearing what you're passing on to the kids. And I think so much of it is them watching you do it or them doing it with you. Right. And I think you're setting a good example and that makes it easier because there's only so much you can tell a kid to do something. But if you're there doing it, showing up, turning up. Right. Then they're going to join you. They get used to it. Yeah, they get used to it. And they see that at least mom values it and...

You know, even their names though, like Egypt and Genesis, like I feel like those names are so powerful. Man, I love those names. Yeah, they're really powerful. I mean, yeah, Egypt, it's been so cool because like even just as watching him grow and growing

And he's always been super into architecture and math. And I'm like, man, maybe that, I feel like the name connection really brought that to him in so many ways. And Genesis is like, whoa. I'm like, we might have needed to rethink naming that boy Genesis. Yeah.

But it's so good. He's so like kind of strong and clear and, you know, he doesn't bend. And I really appreciate that for him because I spent so much of my life bending and contorting and shifting and changing and trying to please that I love. And he's like, no, no.

And he won't. That's it. I'm like, okay, I need you to try to be a little bit fluid, like a little fluid on occasion. Not every time, just once in a while. But I love that for him. I love that he's clear. He's clear and that's it. What's something you've been trying to learn recently or work on recently internally for yourself? The kids are working. What have you been? I think I've just been working on just listening. Yeah.

Yeah, I think that we all have such big personalities. I think I feel for the kids sometimes, like their dad has this huge personality and we have this big personality and I answer every question and I react to everything and I'm always saying, yeah, oh, yeah. And sometimes I'm like, I think I can just be more silent. And I think I can just actually, let me allow them the space to

And everybody, the space to just kind of feel, share, say what they're saying without neither encouragement nor discouragement. Just like receive what they're saying and let them just speak. So I think the listening is really cool. Not always reacting, not always sharing, not always saying something.

Just like being more, more, more silent, more taking the space. Just, yeah, that's what I'm working on. Yeah. I love that. I can agree with you more. I think it's like, it's such a rare thing actually for someone to actually just listen and not have a reaction. Right. And for them to know that they can keep, I feel like when you listen that way, people feel like they can actually speak.

From a deeper place. They're not just thinking and speaking, they're feeling and speaking because you're listening from a, from a feeling space as well. Yes. And I wonder how, how do you explain fame to them or explain, or do they, how do they, how do they interact with, you said your big personalities, but both of you have big lives. Like how did they, how did they.

Makes sense to me? Or are they still too young and they don't? I mean, they're pretty present. You know, they're pretty present. I think about that often. I mean, I'm very much about, I want us all in spaces that feel safe.

very, very normal. Like I am very, very like about that. I love to take them to their classes and I love to drop them off at school. And I love to like, we go and we go to the, you know, we go hang out at the park or we go somewhere, we do what we do.

And I really love that ease. So I really want to put them in environments that feel like that. So, of course, you know, on the other side, they're on the tour bus for three months and that's also different. So they, I think, but I do think they have a pretty good balance about it all. And they're pretty like everyday kids, you know, and I love that about them too. I wonder how it feels or how they affect them. They're both very empathetic kids.

Like I know sometimes if we're out and someone, you know, they might have caught someone who wants to take a picture. But Ma, just take a picture, Ma. And you know, when it's the right time, I'm like, okay, cool. But if it's the wrong time, then it's also, but I'll go say hello. So happy to see you. Hope you're great. Thanks for saying hi. And it just might not be the right time. And that's okay too. So just showing them the boundaries too. And, and, but I think that, you know, sometimes, sometimes I'll say Genesis would be like, Ma, you know, in school,

They, they, they, they're like, that's Alicia Keys. And it's like, so annoying, mom. And I'm like, that is annoying. I feel you. That's annoying. But you could just tell them that's your mom. Yeah. Like you could just tell them, I know that I see what you mean, but that's actually just my mom. So you could tell them that. And then, and then each of, you know, he's, he's getting big and really strong in basketball. And he's like,

doing so many amazing things. He has a great instinct. And really, when we'll walk into a room, it'll be me and Swiss. And if it's in the basketball universe, they'll be like, there's Egypt. They actually are starting to know Egypt's talent. And so it's really good. And it's wonderful that he has all of his own space. And I think sometimes he might feel like, that's what I want. I want to make sure that it's not because of

whatever else, you know? And so I feel for them, but I think that they're pretty cool about everything.

They have a good head on their shoulders. You know, they're kind, they're loving, they're thoughtful. That's beautiful. I'm really proud of them for all of them. You know, we have a beautiful, big, blended family. And I'm proud of all of them because it's like each has such a special, unique, cool personality. And I'm just like, y'all are like really cool. I love it. I feel like you've been able to, you know, you've been in the music industry for so long. I mean, I want to know how...

Hell's Kitchen felt like to be able to take parts of your story, inspire, you know, to see your music on Broadway. I mean, that feels like, was it a different challenge? Like what was that like for you to have to go from recording in studios, making music, traveling to then

doing Broadway? Like, what did that look like for you? How were you creatively involved? It was definitely, as you said, it's been a 13 year process. And I think that's made it very cool, like really almost enjoyable because whereas maybe sometimes with, because it was such a passion project, I knew it wasn't all going to happen quickly or at once. But

And so I would be able to kind of take myself out of my like, quote unquote, normal life and go into this workshop phase with Hell's Kitchen. And I'd be able to figure out like, what are, you know, what's the storylines? Me and the writer, the book writer would get to it. And we'd say, here's the themes and here's the characters and here's the stories. And let's start to build this universe. And then when the director came in, Michael Greif, you know, he was really instrumental. He's kind of like that...

me and Chris Diaz, who's the book writer, are a little bit more the newbies. And then Michael Greif is like the parental figure. He's like, this is what we do. We do this, we do this, we do this, we're good. And sure enough, we'd be like, wow, we needed that. We didn't really know where we were going. So he was like a beautiful guide and light. And then as time passed, being able to connect with the public theater, who's the theater who did Hamilton and

chorus line and all of these incredible, incredible shows, even the softs they did. And, you know, there's so many beautiful things that they, that created another level of like classiness

clarity and just like refinement and really being able to bring it to life. So all these things kind of happen in pockets. Like, you know, it'll be a three week process and then we'll hold tight for a minute. It'll be a two month process and then we'll hold tight a minute. And then it'll be six months of just heavy and then we'll hold tight a minute. And so it really gave me the capacity to

to hold the container for the story and for the meaning. And I would always be able to come back to it and say, "This feels right," or, "Something's wrong about that. We have to figure that out." And then when we brought in the choreographer, she became another part of this beautiful tapestry, and she was creating movement around the songs in a way that I just never

heard it before and the orchestrator who's also been a partner to me in many ways, musically, Adam Blackstone, we would create different versions and instrumentals and I wrote new songs. And so it was all these pieces and parts and you could start to feel little by little how it was all the right timing. But I feel like the biggest, I wouldn't call it a challenge, I'm looking for the right word,

The biggest growth or the biggest awakening that I had with it was realizing that I could take this moment and I could almost take everything that I ever didn't do right and I could fix it. I could learn from it. I could take it, the knowledge, and I could put it into this process and I can fix it.

I could do it right because I actually had the experience. And so my intellectual experience that I had gave me the ability to really look at it in a way that I had truly never had before.

And then because of that knowledge, really cultivating the strongest team of really awesome people in this particular universe to assist me as a newbie, you know, as a person who hadn't quite traversed this path yet.

was so inspiring and enlightening and empowering to really see that when everybody is the best at their field, you really can create something that truly is magical.

And so I learned so much from it. And obviously that's been years and years and years and years and years. And even just seeing it off Broadway and having to navigate our way through how can we perfect the story. And there's still more to perfect. There's still more to craft. And doing that and being open and listening and really just being open too was tremendously rewarding. Wow.

So that day when we got that announcement that we had been nominated for 13 Tonys, it was freaky. The 13, the 13. It was just all like something's really divine here. Wow. And it was unbelievable. So it's been such a hands-on. I mean, I am notoriously...

anal, but in the best, most loving way. Because I know what it's supposed to be and I'm not going to let it go until it's right what it's meant to be. Have you always been like that with all your music since day one and everything? Yeah. Yeah. It takes that. Yeah. That's what it takes. And I've also learned how to back off to like, you know what? Let it flow. Let it vibe. It's okay. You got to back off of it sometimes, but I am definitely...

Smidge of a control freak. How have you walked me through how you've refined that perfectionism? Because in one sense, the reason why you have 16 Grammys and all the rest of it is because all the successes come from that level of work and ethic and effort and perfection and all of that, like tinkering and iterations and everything. And then where have you learned to let go? Or what is it that you've done to...

at what point do you allow it to flow? If someone's listening and they're like, "Lisha, I'm a perfectionist too." - Man, what do I do?

I think that, you know, definitely having the vision for what you want to create is wonderful. And you likely are the only person that has that vision. If you, you know, pass that off to somebody, the vision will shift, right? So, which might be needed at a certain point. But I think being comfortable saying, I really have this vision, I'm very clear about it,

And following that is wonderful. Then I think starting to let other special, not just anybody, but special folks who you realize they're additive, you know, that what you create together or what they bring to the table can enhance the vision even

It is important to let that in because if you don't let it in, you're going to actually steal from the vision ultimately. So I think that has been a beautiful process. And when you know that feels right, you know. When it doesn't feel right and it's super hard and it's like a struggle and you're arguing, okay, it's not the right person. You can let that go. But when you do see that things or people are becoming additive, it's really important.

good to allow that in, allow that to come in. And then you get inspired more and you're like, oh, I didn't know that we could do that. Now I can take that and make it

Even better because we've brought that part into it. So I think that's a really special part of the creative processes. And I have learned that with even songwriting. Like so fun when you start to bring additional energies into the space. Not all the time. So you lose sight of your vision or of your center. That's happened to me too. I'm like, wait, let me go back to the simplest because I've made this a bit complicated or, you know, overly complicated.

done, but I think there's something really great about that. And then you keep seeing that it's growing and it's adding, and then you, you can still hold space for division, but allow what helps it in and what makes it grow in and what makes it better in. And I don't think you have to be worried about that. It's a beautiful thing.

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LifeLock, for the threats you can't control. Yeah, I've definitely developed so much more respect and appreciation, even more than I already had for artists, the closer I've got to the industry just from watching, because you forget that so many projects are truly pure passion.

And that they took 10, 15, 20 years. And when you hear about something like that, that you're saying for someone like yourself, who's already successful, already has tons of accolades in an, in an area that's directly related, but then to think you had to wait 13 years and work for 13 years to pull that off. Right. You, you start recognizing that.

It takes so much patience and love, even when you have already proved yourself. Because I think there's this feeling that people can get tired of proving themselves or having to prove themselves. That's right. And it can feel exhausting sometimes. Yeah. But the truth is that if you're growing and you're building and you have something you care about, you're constantly having to prove yourself in a new space. Right. And I think there's something really...

exciting about that too. Because I think if you could open every door, you would take it for granted. You know, you could open that door too and I'll open that door. And yes, can we open every door? Yes, we actually can open every door. But is it always going to be easy or the simplest? No, it's going to take time and you're going to have to figure it out and work your way through it and come back to those places that you're like, oh, I got to

dredge up this confidence again. Like I thought I was good in this department and here it goes again. And all those learnings and challenges that kind of takes you through just being a human being is I think the beautiful part and the excitement and the thrill and the stimulus. And then you're like, I am willing to work for this. I'm willing to put in the time for this. I'm willing to even fail. I'm even willing. And what does that mean? What does it even mean?

I don't know what that means. I am willing to work and to try and whatever comes from it is going to be what I need. It's going to be exactly what's needed. So it's beautiful. I really enjoy it. And I really find that I'm more grateful than ever for sure for being able to spread my wings and be ceilingless or be edgeless because I

I really want to be able to explore as much as I can. And it feels really good to keep trying. But most important, I think the seed of what you said is the love. It's all that matters. If there's something that you love, go after it because it's meant for you.

And it might not be the way that you thought it was going to be or the length of time you thought it was going to take or whatever all the other things are. But man, I know it's meant for you if you love it. Yeah. Yeah, you'll get to where you want in life, just not in the way you imagined it. The timeline will be different. The way it looks will be different. The way it feels might be different. Even how you visioned it may be completely different, but you'll get there. Right. And the journey will probably be better and a better story.

than you imagined it to be. Ever. And hearing you say that is so, so fulfilling. I want to ask you one more question before we end with a final five. And this question is more just the way I've experienced you. Even today, I'm like...

You've been in the industry for so long, since you were 18, you said, you know, so much success, moved around on so many different things. And I feel like anytime I've been with you, your energy is always like upbeat. You've always been positive. You've always been giving. Like there's always been a really nice spirit and way about you that you have. And I feel like you've never become jaded by the industry or jaded by things around you. And you see that a lot for people and not in a judgmental way, you observe it.

But it seems like you've protected and carved out your space and your like happy place and your safe space. And I was wondering, how have you done that when so many people can look at something and be like, oh, well, I don't want to, you know, people be like, I don't want to be too Hollywood. I don't want to do too this. I don't want to go too that. But it feels like you've been able to protect yourself regardless, you know, being in a big thing. And I wonder how you've been able to do that and how you've been able to craft that. Man, this is amazing.

I love this question. I think that one of the, back to the gifts of what I got from my mother, you know, she was always really kind of, somehow she made me think about how I made people feel. And I remember that. I remember, you know, it would be simple things. I changed my mind about going to a birthday party and she would be like, well, how would that make you feel? And so somehow she helped me to find my empathy and,

And I can put myself into other people's shoes. And I really appreciate that was a gift. And so I can look around me and I can feel empathy for other people. Like I want to connect with people. I care about that. I love bringing good. I want people to bring me good energy. I don't want to bring bad.

someone else, anything else but good energy. Like I care about the energy that I cultivate in a space. And I also have learned that if I can't bring that energy, then I can remove myself from that space. Like I don't have to be in a space if I'm not feeling good, you know, because I can also not feel good. I don't have to always feel good either. That part was a lesson. Took me a while to get there too, you know, but yeah.

But I appreciate that I can, I want to bring that. I'm conscious of what I'm bringing into a space and into a room. And I want what I bring into a space to be something that feels good. And so I think that that's kind of, that's it. I think that's really it. And so just the distinction between the two, giving myself permission to maybe not feel like I can fill that space is great. And then when I can and when I'm ready,

I do. And that's what I want to do. I want to bring that. And I hold other people to that. I'm like, hey, I don't bring you that energy. I don't want you to bring me that energy, you know, because my energy is precious and it's important and it's special and it's just not free. I don't just give it to those who don't deserve it. So I also had to learn the value, back to one of my gaps, of who I am and what my energy is and

What a gift it is to be able, all of our energy is a gift and we can kind of choose how do we want to give it.

And so I love that and learning when it's when to give it and when not to give it has also been a part of the journey too. I think I'm doing better with that. I think I'm doing better. Man, a lot of undeserving people got a lot of good Alicia energy. Oh, really? And it's like, man, no more of that. No more of that. Like you got to know your limits, you know? Like, okay, cool. That doesn't mean I have to be unkind to that person, but they don't have to get my best beautiful energy. They can kind of.

Just hold tight over there. And you only realize that by giving it and knowing that you overgave or undergave. Right, right, right, right. And you only know that by trying it out. Like I know there are people in my life who I believe deserve way more better energy from me because they always have that from me. And I may be overspent in this area. And it's like looking at your...

bank balance at the end of the month and going, where did I overspend and where did I underspend? And energy is the same thing. Where did I overspend my energy and who did I overspend my energy with and who did I underspend with? Facts. And let me reflect on that. I love that. I love that. Thank you. Alicia, I've met, the first time we ever did the interview was only audios during the pandemic. Right. And I remember like, obviously, I mean, it's a no brainer that you have the most beautiful voice, but I remember just listening to you because we were so present because I could just hear you.

And it was a time. Yeah, and it was a time. Exactly. It was a time. But I'm so grateful to be able to see all your expressions today and just, you know, see you come to life. And we end every On Purpose interview with what we call a final five questions.

Every question has to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. One word or one sentence. Yeah, but I'll probably ask you for more because I always break my own rules. All right. I'll try to be swift. I'm not good at that. Yeah. It doesn't matter. It's fine. Alicia Keys, these are your final five. So question number one, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? Nothing before it's time. My grandmother, nothing before it's time. I love that one. Question number two, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? Nothing.

The worst advice that I ever received was that I had to kind of change myself to be accepted or that I was, even if I felt uncomfortable, I should do a thing because it's what was going to be best received.

Yeah. That's good to hear. I always like to make a list of all the worst advice everyone's had because people are going to hear it again. Right. And hopefully they'll remember this moment when they hear it. It's a good book. Yeah. Question number three, what was it like to perform at the Super Bowl? Oh man, it was crazy. It was totally insane. This is longer than a sentence. Yeah, do it. It's fine. And it was, I found it so fascinating because we're

it had to be built. The whole thing had to be built and they had to time it. And under three minutes it could be built. And then we had to have our performance in the amount and it had to be tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. And so, and it was live. So it's crazy to see a live thing have to like operate in that level of like finite detail. I was like in awe. And then obviously the place and the people and the vibe and the energy. And it was just like really fun.

Yeah, it was like your dress and the piano and it was insane. It was crazy. And underneath the dress was the world's best puppeteers. So they were actually puppeteers underneath the dress to make it fly like that. That was fantastic. How did your control freak nature deal with that? Like three minutes and like the puppeteers? You know, I just, we had practiced so much.

distinctly that I knew everything that was going to happen and it was perfect. And I just kind of, you know, control freak until you can. And as an artist, I just, at a certain point when you're flowing and creating and writing and singing, you do just have to like be in the moment. So the control freak part comes when I'm designing or creating the thing. But once I'm in the thing, you have to just go.

Oh, so that's beautiful. I love that. That makes so much sense. That's a great clarification on the earlier point too. I love that. And that completely makes sense. In the architecture, the design, that's where the perfectionist kicks in. Otherwise though, it's like magic. Whatever happens, whatever happens, it's perfect for that moment. Yeah, that's beautiful. Question number four, what's the first offering you want me to use and the first offering you want Radhi to use? Oh my God.

And I want you to give them to me now. You can share them. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. All right. Well, I want you both to wash your face with the golden cleanser. But I want you to use the Oramist. Ooh. It has rose.

It has rose. I think we might start spraying this in the studio every time now someone comes in. And literally it just calms you instantly. Yeah, the scent's beautiful. And it's, I'm as free as the air. So you are. Oh, is that the affirmation? That's the affirmation. I'm as free as the air. And you always are as free as the air. But that's just a beautiful reminder. And Rania, my best friend. Yeah, that's beautiful. Is, these are the Let Me Glow.

And this one I think is the Bronzeite. I give myself permission to grow. The Bronze Aura. So she's going to get all three of these. Okay. Because she's glowing and she's so...

spectacularly authentic I just adore her so let me glow in all of the shades so that she can just like ting ting ting ting ting she already glows so we'll give that to her I can't wait to see her I love it I can't wait for you to see her as well that's beautiful thank you so much we're so excited thank you thank you for sending so much for my team as well they're excited everybody glow we appreciate it appreciate it so much

Fifth and final question. If you could, we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? I think my law would be that you cannot hurt another being. You cannot hurt them physically. You cannot hurt them emotionally. You cannot hurt them. You cannot hurt another being. There's no reason. There's no reason.

There's nothing that allows the physical or emotional or spiritual negligence or hurting of another being. I think that's a great law. It's a great law. And then we'd actually have to look at why we'd want to hurt others and where that comes from and then actually heal our own hurt as well. That's incredible. I love that. That would be really amazing if we could...

look to that. It's beautiful. Alicia Keys, thank you so much. I'm always happy when I'm with you. Thank you. I've always enjoyed collaborating and if only I could sing, you know. We'd be doing a song. But this is our song. You know? I'm so grateful.

I'm so excited for people to use Keys Soul Care and to have access to it and to transform their heart, their soul, their mind, and their body through this beautiful new offering. And even the intentionality, I was looking at how everything's called an offering. There's no products. It's called rituals, not just routines. I love all of that to it. And I think I do believe that physical...

And I'll call them products just for what I'm trying to say, but I think physical products are so important to remind us of what to do internally. Yes. Because we use them every day. We do call them product offerings. So you can kind of like gel the two together. But you're right. It's like the physical embodiment, the embodying of the philosophy or the practice. And I love that. And you live that. You guys live that. And thank you for this such, such, for these questions that also...

made me pause and think about how I wanted to share them and

I love this show. This show is so good. But you know that already because it's like a smash. So what? No, you're the best. It means the world. Thank you for trusting me. Absolutely. Thank you so much. You too. Thank you. Big love. Amazing. If this is the year that you're trying to get creative, you're trying to build more, I need you to listen to this episode with Rick Rubin on how to break into your most creative self, how to use unconventional methods that lead to success and

and the secret to genuinely loving what you do. If you're trying to find your passion and your lane, Rick Rubin's episode is the one for you. Just because I like it, that doesn't give it any value. Like as an artist, if you like it, that's all of the value. That's the success comes when you say, I like this enough for other people to see it.