Meghan Trainor
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Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Randall Shepard. I'm joined by Lily Padman. Hi. Good evening to you. Hello there. Good morning to you is what I meant. In reality, it's neither evening or morning. It's 2.43 in real life. I'm telling. I'm telling. Which is 6.43 on the East Coast, so that would be a good evening. 5.43.

What did you just say? Oh, it's two. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry. Well, my fast math sucks today. Yeah, you already tried a fast math that blundered. I did. It was a story that happened 2011. The person's currently 30 and I said 19. Of course, they're 17 at the time of the story. I'm so sorry that happened to you. I'll be beating myself up all night over that. I hope you'll rest assured.

Today's guest is an award-winning singer and songwriter and television personality, Megan Trainor, Delta's very first favorite musician and song. She used to sing all about that bass, about that bass. No twabble. Yeah, she sure did. I love it.

Her albums include Title, Thank You, Treat Myself, A Very Trainer Christmas, Taking It Back, and a new album out now called Timeless. Check that out and please enjoy Meghan Trainor.

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Welcome. Thanks for coming. Strong hug. You're so fit. Are those the pants you wore to the concert? No. Oh, they're also pink. They were much pinker. These are salmon, no? Yeah, those are salmon. They're very Nantucket Reds. Oh.

I cannot wait to tell you about Nantucket. Look at your water bottle. Yeah, she blinged out. I love her. It was for my second C-section. Oh, wow. You wanted to ventize the C-section by having that by your side, or this was a reward for your C-section? It was a gift. It was like, here's for the hospital stay. And I got more compliments on this bejeweled water bottle than my baby. And who gave it to you? Jojo Siwa's mother. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Wow. They bejewel everything. I'm really new to this whole Stanley thing. Huge deal. And only because there's young people in my life do I even know about it. But I'm really behind the curve. So an item like this that's so bejeweled, this is an expensive item, no? What would you pay for that, Monica? I mean, I bet JoJo Siwa's mother bejeweled it herself. Really? Oh, yeah. They don't sell them like this. Yeah. She did that. That must have taken an eternity. Six to seven weeks. Yeah. Oh, my God.

Almost as long as it took you to incubate the baby. Yeah. I usually have a gallon around with me because I drink a gallon a day or a half gallon if I'm feeling exhausted. Okay. But then quick trips like this, I was like, we need a smaller thing. So have you figured out how many of these Stanleys equals a gallon? Three? Like three, yeah. I'm on two right now. Will you have to go potty a lot while we're here? I peed here. Oh, you already did? He was like, I'll step out. I was like, don't need to. Oh my God. I was like, I don't make that much noise. I'm an open door kind of peer. How long?

How long dating a boy before you feel comfortable with it? With a two? Yeah. That took me a long time. Yeah, that's a while. It took him like a week. It took you a week. You guys are the worst. We were really like, we were Velcro. Day one, I was like, you're never going to leave me. Day six, I was like, we're in love. Yeah. Month one, I wrote our wedding song that we walked down the aisle to. Yeah, we're gross. I'm sorry.

so jealous. Well, and it's hopeful. It's hopeful. It's a real thing. But also, what I'm, I guess, proud of you of is you felt all those ways within six days, but you did date for a couple years before you got married. We, like, stretched out as long as we could to a year and a half. Just for appearances. Yeah, just to make everyone else happy. I literally called my mom and was like,

Like, when can he propose where people won't judge us? And she was like, give it another few months. And I was like, no. Okay, now for sure you'll be the first person I ever met that grew up on Nantucket. Really? Yes, and let me bring you up to speed. I had no idea what was happening in that whole region of the world. But last summer we went on vacation to Martha's Vineyard, which is right down the coast.

It's the other island. Is there a rivalry? Enemies, yeah. Really? Oh, yeah. In the sports? Oh, my God. Oh, that super competitive island sports league? We all lost. Yeah, I'm sure. Tell me what the Nantuckety people think about the Martha Vineyard people. I was in Martha's Vineyard and I got to hear kind of their... They think Nantucket's very bougie now. So are they. Lady Gaga has a house there. Okay, we're getting into it. They film Jaws there. But Jaws isn't bougie.

But it's like Phoenix. It's iconic. It's iconic. It is very iconic. He had the Kennedy's. When people ask me where I'm from, I'm like, you ever seen Jaws? That's where I'm from. And I clump it all together. And when we really don't know, I'm like, Cape Cod potato chips. Oh. Oh.

Oh, everyone knows that. You hit them with Cape Cod potato chips. Yeah, Woods Pile Ferry. What is it? I don't know. What's the ferry where you come out of? Oh, oh, oh. Woods Hole. Wood Hole? Ew. Oh, gosh. I don't even know what the ferry's called. We just call it the ferry. This is a difference. In Nantucket, they just call it the ferry. In Martha's Vineyard, they call it Wood Hole. They have names. Wood Hole? Well, that's the name. Gray Lady, I think, is what it's called. For the Nantucket Ferry? Yeah, something like that. Okay. That's a good one.

I think Robbie will tell me, but it's called like Woods Hole or Woods Pile or Pile of Wood. That makes sense. Yeah. Okay, so what did the Nantucket-y people say? And mind you, it has evolved since you were born. I'm 30 now, but they had more stuff than us. They were bigger. So when we went to their schools to play games, they had nicer, better, bigger things. And I was like...

We're on a tiny little island. There's less of us. We gotta be stronger together. Okay, so you had an underdog. We were like, we're gonna stomp your grapes. Sure, sure, sure. Oh, that's so fancy to say stomp your grapes. I know, we were like, we're gonna make wine with you. Yeah. Oh, wow. Also, the notion that those two places would have rivals is pretty adorable. It's like, aw.

- Aw, you two. - Yeah. - We find rivalries everywhere. No one can just get along, even in Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard. - And I've had people come up to me, they're like, "I'm from Martha's Vineyard, so watch out." And I'm like, "What?" - Oh my gosh. - "I got a zoo." I was like, "Sir." - Oh, that's their way of trying to talk to you. - Yeah. - But it has become way more expensive since you grew up there, no? - Probably. I remember gas was like $6 when I last saw it. - And the houses are quite nice. - I don't think.

I'm trying to get away from that side of the world so much that I love these modern chic houses in LA. I didn't know it was possible because growing up there, there's rules. You can't build a certain way. You have to have shingles. If you want a fence in the front, you have to ask permission. You can't paint your house. So the first time I came to California and every house is different and opposite, I was like, oh,

where am I? You could be unique over there. No matter how much money you throw into a big house, it's still going to be old and spooky. And the woodshake exterior. Yeah, and I'm like, there are ghosts here. And that's so charming for us when we visit. Yeah, you're like, aw.

Yeah. I'm like, ew, it's moldy. Speaking of houses real quick, I've been to your old house. No, you haven't. Yeah. Julie Bowen's house? Yes. Shut up. And it's gorgeous. Isn't that the most gorgeous house ever? It's so nice. I literally sobbed leaving that house. Why'd you leave it? Because I was having babies and my brothers lived with me at the time. And there's two bedrooms down on that wing. It was like the man cave wing. And there was only one open bedroom right in the middle of them. And I was like, I don't want my baby crying.

I'm in the middle of them, and I don't want them waking him up, and then I don't want to walk all the way. And I didn't think it through, so I was like, bigger, let's go. Okay. So you had both brothers. You're in the middle, right? You have an older and a younger? Yes. We're like a year apart. And they were living with you. Yes. Where did they go? You said tough shit? Just recently. No. I have tried so hard to keep them with me. But really, it's so recent that I cried about it this morning. My younger brother, three.

Found love, which is amazing. And she's the greatest girl ever. I have the best sister. And he lives with her now. And they're engaged and trying to find a grown-up apartment and live lives. This is Justin. Justin. So Justin... Are you saying his name? He's gonna die. Okay. Okay.

Well, they might not like this part. Oh, no. Oh, Dax. But he moved from one gale's house, his sister, into another gale's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something crazy. It's modern. Yeah. It's not impressive. No, no. I clipped their wings. My boys lived in my house. My boys. My babies. These are my brothers. Your little baby. I clipped their wings. I said, you live comfy and be my friend. That's your only thing you have to do. Okay. My older brother lived in our back house and recently we're moving into a new home that doesn't have a back house. So I was like, do you think I should buy this house? Like, it's

bigger and cooler, but there is no back house. Like you're in the house. And he was like, this is great. Then I bought it and he goes, listen, I thought about it. I don't want to be in the house. And I was like, you're breaking my heart. You said to buy it because you would come with me and now you're not coming with me and I'm going to cry and I hate this. Yeah. And then I found him a new apartment and I moved him in and everything and it's devastating. I see him way less. You're very maternal. Yeah, you really wanted to care for them. Yeah. I worry about them so much. And my husband's like, hey, we have kids now. Right.

So let's put that attention into them. Also, if I was your husband and I had to live with both your brothers, I don't know. So at first it was weird, and then my husband's more in love with my brothers than me. Oh, okay. We had a little something this morning. Ryan came in hot and was like, I don't want to do all these things with you. And then I left cross-eyed.

crying and my husband went to him first and was like, proud of you. That was good. Oh! For like having boundaries. And then he came up to me and rubbed my back and was like, you're exactly right to feel how you feel. And I was like, you're a liar. I'm mad at him. I'm mad. I'm mad. He just had therapy. He just had

therapy just had therapy and i was like how was it did you learn something and he was like i just love you and i was like that's crazy you didn't learn shit well he's either quite generous at seeing everyone's point of view or he's playing both sides i think no i am he's a gemini really bad really bad he trusts no one he thinks everyone's out to get us but me too negative and i'm not a gemini i wonder if it's in your rising or your moon

Oh man, we gotta find out. We need to look into it. That changes year to year, I assume? No. Nope. It's your birth chart. It's all one chart. Your birth chart. There's apps for it. Okay, but doesn't everyone have a different birth chart? Yeah. I'm just curious, if you're born in 75 January 2nd, do you have the same rising as you would if you were born in 84? No, because it depends on, you put your exact birthday, your time of birth to the minute. Right, that's what I thought. And location. That could explain some stuff.

Why did mom and dad find their way to Nantucket? They're jewelers? They were. My dad's had like seven lives. He was 43 when he started pushing us out. Oh, nice. Oh, okay. This coffee is so fancy, I don't even know how to open it. I can't do it. Have you ever had one? You live here in LA. What is this? It's called a cream top. It's a very perverted name. That's cream. I'm going to be pooping later. That's nice. Yeah, yeah, you will. Maybe even mid-interview. Mid-interview. You guys can hear it. Like, oh, that'd be so good.

That'd be a first ever. My parents, it's a long, weird story, but a lot of people go to Nantucket to vacation there in the summer. Then they love it so much they end up staying year round. So my dad was that guy. He was like a band teacher at one point. He was a lifeguard, a police officer, not a legit one, but like a summer cop. He's had many lives. Is he from Boston? He's from Springfield, Mass.

My mom was from Vermont and New Hampshire, something like that. They're indistinguishable if you've been, sorry, New Hampshire and Vermont. It's like the same place, right? Yeah, virtually. So my mom would summer there too because her uncle lived there. Stay with me. It'll make sense.

Her uncle was on Nantucket, who was good friends with my soon-to-be father. So there's an age gap. Age gap, yeah. How big is the age gap? It's 20. I love this story. She was 19 when she would go to Nantucket, and he was 40. And they were like, keep her away from Gary. And she was like, who's Gary?

Your mom's dangerous. I always laugh at her. I'm like, you little hoe. She was like, I didn't like anyone my age. I can relate. He had his life together. And now he's... 75.

And she's 55. And it's starting to sink in. Is she starting to feel like a caretaker? He's so young and so like, I gotta be doing something at all times that he's on it. I hope he doesn't hear this. I don't think he should drive a car soon. He got hit by a car recently just walking. Oh no. And that really took him 10 years back. These falls aren't good. These falls aren't good. And he loves to go on walks and he loves nighttime walks. If he's on a bike...

He won't wear a helmet because he's from the 20s. Probably also a Capricorn. He's March, so no. But he is old school stubborn. Can't tell him what to do. How did they meet? This is an enormous age gap. Nowadays, this would be rough. We would judge. Back then, we were like, we're rooting for you. But they've been together for 30 years. Yeah. So her parents are only five years older than my dad. What?

Oh my God. It was weird. Is your dad hot? Be honest. No.

Really? He was just like, you know what it was? The dude is charming. Okay. Charisma is his middle name. He's a musician. He would sing at church and at weddings and he would host. He hosted the March of Dimes on TV on Nantucket. Oh, yeah. So I was like, my dad's a celebrity. He was in show business. And I would sing there with him at like six. Aw.

Yeah, it was great. So really quick, not to psychoanalyze mom. She loves this podcast so much. She does? Yeah, she's sitting in the car right now. Oh, she is? Oh, I have to meet her before she does. Shout out. Why was stability so appealing to her? The dudes her age were all a mess. 19-year-old boys, ugh. Yeah, they're not great. She had a few boyfriends that she says they were cuckoo or they would cause a scene at her house and embarrass her when she broke up with them. She was a babe.

Okay. Smoke show. I was like, where did my boobs go? I didn't get any of your boobs. A lot of people have boobs with their mom about that. Yeah. I was like, something happened and I have dada's boobs. But wait, when you were younger and you're waiting to go through puberty, is your expectation we're going to get those? Yeah. I was like, if you're back, track. So you might have had a little heightened expectation.

These cones will turn into boobs. Yeah, you're just like waiting for any day now. My brothers would be like, hey, cone tits. Yeah, what was it like growing up with two boys? I played football. I played baseball. My friends were the cheerleaders, and I was like, I want football. I was a big girl, too. So at one point, I was center, and my older brother, a year and five days older, was quarterback.

You were literally on the football team? I was bent over. Oh, no. Oh, careful, Stanley. Stanley. Held up pretty good. It didn't spill too bad. No, they're really good. If you don't know what center is, I'm bent over with the ball about to hike it through my cooch to my older brother. Whoa. And I was like, at one point, who's messing with us? The coach is dad's friend. Why are we doing this? So it was an actual team. Oh, we were the Dolphins. In high school.

- Is this school? - No, this is third grade, fourth grade. This is Boys and Girls Club after school programs. - Got it. - I gotcha. Okay, so you start singing at six at church. Very traditional place to start singing. Many of the singers we've interviewed started in church.

Which concerns me as people start going to church. Where will people start singing? My dad would have us go every Sunday and he was really cool and could sing. Not great, but he was charming. He knew it. Really confident. Really cool. He's a cool dude. When people would show up to church in the morning on time, he'd be like, come over here. We're going to give them a song because they showed up on time. And so we would just random pop-up shows.

He knew I liked songwriting and wanted to be a better performer and was like, well, you have to do it more. So I'm going to throw you in there whenever I can. So he'd be like, Mother's Day is coming out. Why don't you write me a song? He played the organ at the church? Organ and piano and keys, everything. He could play the big one too where he could step on the pedals. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And ever since I was really young, I would sit next to him and he'd be like, pull out the

And I was like, okay. And like help him. All right. So this is a self-serving question because I was 38. So only five years younger than your dad. Do you say 43 when he started having kids? Yeah. Were you conscious of him being an older dad? Not at first. At first, he was the most fun dad. And we would climb all over him. And there's videos of us just attacking him. And...

We didn't ever think of him as old until I got to kindergarten. Him and my mom brought me to school, and my friend was like, is that your grandpa? Okay. And we get that a lot. You don't look like a grandpa. You know what I mean? Yeah. My dad was like, more grandpa-y than you. Okay. You look like a movie star. Oh, that's nice. Oh, thank you. And were you self-conscious of it? Yeah, I was like, no, that's my dad. I was upset. He was very stable when my mom met him.

It's a good job. And they work at the jewelry store together. My mom especially looks really young. So this is exacerbated. So when customers would come in, they go, oh, honey, is your dad here? To her. Oh, wow. This is a unique story. I don't know. No one knows this part of me. Yeah, yeah. It's very unique. And anyone who meets me and my mom, they're like sisters. When they would walk in and see me and mom working at the jewelry store, they'd be like, girls, where's dad? Oh, wow. Oh, Christ. Like that.

Like, that's her husband. Get real, that's my grandpa. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You get confused about what's what. Now, Nantucket's tiny, right? So I presume you guys know everyone at some point. It sucks to go get tampons. Yes, you know the boy working at the counter. Well, it's your friend's dad. Oh, sure. It's like, hey, Dan.

I slept over your house the other night. Yeah, just going to grab these heavy flow tampons. Yeah, I was like, there's got to be another way. Now, did you pine to be off of Nantucket? Yeah, it's also famous for people staying there. My dad was a band teacher and all the students that he taught there grew up and had children with him at the same time. So all my friend's parents were like, your dad was my

band teacher. And then it starts being like, whose cousins was that? You know? Very insular. And it's rough in the winter there, right? There's not much to do. So you do drugs and you drink and you hook up and you do a lot of weird things at a really young age. Thirteen, my brother started drinking and smoking. My town was tiny and there was nothing going on either. And several kids left junior high pregnant. That's better than mine, dude. Mine were suicides. Five.

Five? And the first one, they did a shrine on the wall because they didn't know what to do. So everyone started leaving notes. And then I think that inspired the other ones. Like, well, that looks cool. I'm doing that. It is contagious. The head of some hospital in Boston came down to be like, we're going to switch things up because this is not how you handle this. Right. You basically got to ignore it and keep ignoring it.

quiet. Is that wild? Yeah. So we moved to Cape Cod. Is that what instigated the move? I was also allergic to this island. I was coughing a lot. I had this weird cough tick. And I also found out I was allergic to certain molds. And these schools are just old and wet. I went to every doctor ever and they were like, are you getting bullied? And I was like, no, dude, I'm pretty popular. I just can't stop this cough. And then we did an allergy test and it was like certain grass, certain molds.

And you just walk in those old buildings and you just see wet. Yeah, it's a very damp climate. And did you have other tics? Yeah. When I was really young, I would hum at the table. Not a singing hum. I would take a sip and go, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm. And I'd have to have an even number. Same. I'm writing about it right now. I'm having so much fun. They're endless when I start remembering them. But did you do this one? Bree and I both had this in common as tics where you have to check that you can go, like, you have to...

Check that you can make that noise, that very highest. Yes. You like needed to know that you could still make that noise. It would be overwhelming and you'd have to find it. Mine was, I still have it sometimes if my husband puts his big hand on this shoulder, I'm like, well then get this one.

Evenness. I gotta be even. If the radio station, when you turned up the volume, it would always be like half and then a full bar. And if it was half, I was like, I'm going crazy. And my brothers would just mess with me. Or they would like scratch on the fabric of the roof. And I was like, please don't.

And he was like, yeah. I had no idea what was going on. Yeah, I had a thing with anytime I had dry mud on my feet and then I'd be in the classroom that had that carpet. I would like almost pass out because I would rub the dryness on that carpet and it would give me heebie-jeebies until I'd have to go to the drinking fountain and make everything wet. Oh.

Oh my God. Wait, you made your feet wet? I would have to like wet my fingertips and there's just so much dryness on my feet and on the carpet that I had to find moisture. You poor thing. I was like so busy. Were you busy all day with the different things? I was exhausted. I've always my whole life picked my skin off my fingers. We were just talking about this. Do you ever eat it? No, I don't swallow it. But you chew on it, right? I gather a pot.

Okay. We just got in a whole debate because I had a peel and I peeled this little piece off and for a second I was like, I want to chew on this. I didn't do it. But you wanted to. I really wanted to. Were you like, God, that looks yummy? No. You want to feel the texture. My thing was when you bite a callus off and then you just feel it in your teeth. If I couldn't get my fingers, I go to my mouth and I get my lips. I always get my lips. Oh man, I could cause damage. Like craters in there.

I just look crazy like I'm on drugs. Do you think that was a genetic disposition? I hope so. Nothing crazy happened to me at childhood that I'm like, that tracks. Reading about you, it seems like you had the most idyllic, supportive, lovely family. We had a great family. There's always family stuff, but yeah. Yeah, of course.

But the fact that you start singing at six, you start performing with your dad and your aunt and your brother. You're in a cover band by the time you're 12. This sounds so cute and dreamy. Walk me through it. I don't want to jump to it. But at six, you start singing. What age does GarageBand enter your life? I was young when Mac was making computers again. And they were like, this is cool. And now we're doing Silver, That World.

And my dad, it was a big purchase. I think it was my birthday. And he let me know this is a big deal. But he also let me know that he had a credit card and was like, anything I buy in here, you could pay me back someday when you make money from music. And I was like, fuck you, dad. Oh, wow. Maybe I should be saving receipts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is an expensive trip to Lisbon. This is the card that I use for Megan. It will be paid back.

And I did. But yeah, he got me a Macintosh. He also was like Dell guy all the way. So he had to break his religion. He's like, I don't know how to use this. I cannot help you. But you figure it out. There's something called GarageBand on here and you can make beats. Because I was trying to do it on the Dell computers. And I was like, this sucks. But then I learned it right away. I would show him as a thank you for buying this. I wrote a song for you. And then it turned into every day I was writing a new song. Wow.

So what kind of kid were you? You said you were popular. My older brother was popular, so by default, I got to be there a little bit. I was trainer sis all throughout middle school and high school. They called him trainer. Yeah, he's trainer, and I was trainer sis. And then Justin, how did he fit in? J-train. J-train.

What a dumb question. They loved him because he was a freshman while Ryan was a very popular senior. And at a junior, we became more friends. Finally, my older brother and I. Because you wanted to be his best friend. So bad. I just followed him everywhere. And he was like, get away from me. And now we're best friends. But it took so long. I just had to be a pop star.

At that point in high school, we brought Justin to every high school party and we would roll in the three of us like, the trainers are here. Oh, wow. This is ideal. It was sick. We had a garage with a cold attic above it and we would have little parties up there. Me and my brothers would make eye contact and be like, are you over this? And he's like, I'm over this. And we'd be like, one, two, three. Everybody get out. Oh, okay. You were really running the show. Okay. Yeah.

This is the dream. It is. If I was your parents, I'd be so pleased by this. My kids all get along. They're going to parties. They're ruling the school. And was Justin trying to hook up with your friends and you were trying to hook up with Ryan's friends? I was trying to hook up with Ryan's friends, but none of them would...

portray him like that, quote unquote. I was like, am I a monster? Why won't you look at me? They're like, I would never do that to Ryan. And I was like, you're a loser, Vi. But he would hook up with all my friends. And I was like, that's fine, I guess. Yeah, that's not fair. And was Justin gobbling up any scraps? No, he was sweet and shy and insecure.

Okay, I like him. He's a sweetie-beetie. He found love. He found love. It's gonna be hard for Ryan. He's had too many options. So, Ryan, I wanted to ask if this is like an addict thing, because he's sober now for three years. Oh, wonderful. Oh, congratulations to him. Yeah, he went crazy. He had to. He was too cool in high school. But he was extra cool out here, too. He was like my brother out here, and all the parties that I was invited to, I never went and was like, Ryan, go for me. And he was great at it. I never had to worry about him, ever. But then we saw it was a problem.

when he fell on his face and started bleeding and almost died like that. He came out with a black eye and thought, "I almost died in my bathroom like this. Like, this is my wake-up call." He was so afraid and then was like, "Okay, I'm done." Went cold turkey, which is very dangerous with the amount he was drinking. He could have had seizures and stuff, and he didn't. He did great. So he's on his third year now, and he's doing wonderful. And I forgot my question about it. - Love. - Oh, he's only had, like, one girlfriend.

And he's very attractive, very charming, awesome guy. Everyone would be shocked to hear he only had one girlfriend his whole life and it was in high school. He's had flings, but it never lasts. Or if a girl is immediately interested in him, he's like, I'm bored. What's that? He's always been a stud and everyone likes him. It's not hard for people to fall in love with him fast. And also, if you go out to your garage and you have like 10 supercars. He does not.

Well, no, I know. But I'm saying the odds of you committing to one of the supercars and only driving that supercar when there are 10 there, it's a unique person that's going to make that decision. Not that we should ever feel bad for gorgeous popular guys, but I think it's harder for them to make that decision. Does he want to have a family? For a long time, especially being sober, he's like, I need to figure this out. I need to figure me out. But no.

Now at three years, I put so much pressure on him. We'll meet a nice new lady and I'll be like, hey, you could be my sister. Do you think my bro's cute? Do you like it? I'm aggressive and I know I need to pull back and stop. But I have the best love with my husband and he's my best friend and I couldn't live without him. I don't like pooping without him. I don't like peeing without him. I don't want to shower unless he's close. I'm codependent and I'm fine with that. And I want my brother to find

that happiness. That same codependency. Yeah. And now he truly lives on his own and I'm like, I know he's alone. Elsie, you're going to find the best person. Where are they? So loneliness scares you. Loneliness scares me. Death scares me more. I hate death. I'm watching Six Feet Under right now. It wouldn't wreck

I love it. I watch Dateline every night. I listen to Dateline to fall asleep. I think people that are most fearful of death are really drawn. I cannot get enough of it. I think I'm going to solve a crime one day. Do you listen to the murder podcast and stuff? Yeah, all of them. All of them, yeah. I love it. They need to have a good voice, though. And Keith Morrison is the best. Oh, I love Keith. I'm like, it's a lullaby. Are you singing to the choir right now? Singing in the choir? Singing to the choir. Preaching to the choir. Preaching to the choir. I was like, shall I sing?

To promo, my whole album Timeless is about my big fear of death, but I turned it into a love song. Don't worry. It's not like a big album of sad. I wrote this song called Timeless. I think you will love it. It starts with nothing's forever. That's what I'm told. And it doesn't make any sense to me. All these memories we make, where do they go? It can't just be poof gone. Is that an archway into spirituality? I don't know what I believe in.

I'm so confused and lost. I wish I could see a ghost so that I know I could at least haunt my kids forever. I tried. I went to a haunted mansion. I saw nothing. And I was like, I haven't seen any either. I accept that other people do, but I personally haven't. I know. I'm like, I've seen videos and I'm like, I believe that. That's sick. But like show it in person. I want to see a body in front of me.

that was here and is not. Because I can't find purchase in a belief in a god. Same. But I was listening to this book for the second time, A Brief History of Intelligence. Great book. Recommend it. It's talking about the period in evolution where fish crawled out of the water.

and started eating vegetation close to the waterline and develop lungs. Ultimately becomes mammals, right? And my understanding of evolution, which is there's a mutation, then that mutation is beneficial, and then they breed more, and that's how the thing lasts. Lungs is so complicated. How the fuck could that be a mutation? Are we saying one fish one of these days had a set of lungs? And all of a sudden I was like, I don't think I buy this. Even though I'm the biggest proponent of science, I'm like...

That's way too complicated of a mutation. - Maybe it was like 100 million years. - Well, it was. Think about the steps that led to the lungs. Even if you have a billion year timeline, for them to evolve one cell at a time, one mutation at a time, it's so complex and opposite of the previous system. I was a little bit like, "Wow, do I believe this?" - Oh, God. - I mean, like, think about when your wife, he was pregnant and how there was nothing in there and then there was lungs.

Exactly. In a matter of months. But it had DNA. Or a sesame seed. Telling it how to build those lungs. I don't know. That's deep. I can't help you with that. To go from gills to lungs sounds like quite a mutation. So you think when we die, it's like black and that's it? I do. Oh, fuck. You too?

I want to not. Right, we'd all like to not. I do think that, but just last night thinking about the lungs, I was like, I don't know, man. That's quite a mutation. So that means then you believe it is divine? I don't jump to I know what it is, but I did have a moment where I was like, that's a little hard for me to believe. In the way this has been explained and we all accept it, I find it a little hard to believe that lungs could be a mutation. Do you believe aliens are running this? No. No.

Damn. I believe in aliens, but I don't think they've ever been here. They didn't make us. Right. They're too far away. They're not running the sim. Yeah. We're not their pets. Okay. Back to your life. Sorry about the fish thing. Really, last night I was just like, this is bullshit. No, I'm going to ask my whole family. My uncle's very into that, so I'm going to ask him. Okay. And it's a great book. I recommend it. But just lungs as a mutation. Anyways, moving on. You write your first song at 12. Here's what I knew about you.

And I think you already know this because you've run into Kristen a few times in real life. Once, and it was the best day of my life. Okay, just once. Is that an award show? It was at James Corden backstage. I got to hold her. Okay, great. Oh, that's nice. She's very holdable. She is. And at that time, she was two or three years old.

Delta's first song she ever sang compulsively was All About That Bass. And she would say, do you remember this, Monica? She would go, All About That Bass. No, Twobble. She thought it was Trouble and she mispronounced it to Twobble. Invite me over. What do you mean? I'll sing it in

I'm pretty sure she told you that when you guys met because I think she came home and she's like, oh my God, I met Meghan Trainor. And I got to tell her that Delta sings all about that bass note twobble. We own the CD. You own the CD? You know, you could mail in and you could get a little thing from you that was written and an actual physical CD. Delta demanded we get her this CD at like three years old. I was sent it to you.

- But we're like, "Hon, we have nowhere to play this." She didn't care. And she has the CD, but she doesn't know what she's gonna do with it. We have an 11 year old too, and I'm trying to imagine her committing daily to writing songs. - And making beats. - I didn't know your story started so young until today. Even though I was fully aware of you,

And thank you from afar for this gift of Delta Sane 12. I didn't realize you were like fucking 12 and 15 and in bands and writing tons of songs by the time you were 17. My dad was very musical. So there was a piano in the house and he's been playing since he was 11. And then he was a band teacher. So he learned other instruments. He had this weird thing where he refused to teach me.

because he was a teacher for so long, and he said he didn't want to fight with me. Do you think you would have been able to take instruction from him? I was desperate for it. And then one day he taught me the circle of fifths, and I was like, this is fucking lame. Just teach me chords. And then he did. Wait, do you say the cycle of— Circle of fifths. I thought you were making a joke about Dax's fish story, and I—

I thought you were doing a callback to the fish. He showed me, he's like, I'll give you the basics and that's it. I'm not going to teach you anything else. You have to learn by ear. And that's what I did. So he showed me what a cord is. And then I just sat there forever. I've never loved something so much. So I was like, I will figure this out. One day I found a guitar that was like an old guitar he never played deep in the closet. And I was like, what's this?

He's like, it's a guitar. I don't really know how to play, but I could show you three chords. So he showed me the three chords. I learned a whole song. My first song was from Jaws when they're drunk in the boat. And it was, show me the way to go home. Boom, boom. I'm tired and I want to go to bed. You know that one? No, but I love hearing you sing it. Had a little drink about an hour ago. And it went straight to my head. That's what I did with a guitar. God, your voice. Yes.

That's lovely. Two things were happening. I was like excited and I recognized the song. And then I literally went, that movie is so much bigger in Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard. Also, it's the reason I won't go in the ocean. So it ruined my life. But I don't think most people know the song from Jaws. So he might not have taught you, but crazy supportive because he built like a little recording studio. I just was so persistent that hours later, I was like, Dad, look, I learned a whole song. And he was like, holy crap. I remember in high school, he got me a ukulele.

And he's like, I don't know how to play this either, but I'm sure you could figure it out. And then I wrote a whole lullaby that day as like my thank you and would write him songs all the time. As I would write more, I'd get better and I would produce more and I'd get better with my production. And then eventually I was going to start traveling to do songwriting. And we bought the equipment that I could set up in a hotel room and work anywhere. He was like, I don't want you to have to rely on anyone. But the training was tough. He would have all the wires laid out on the ground random and he would go put it together. Oh.

Wow. And I was like, duh. Do it for me. Help me. He was like, no, dude, when you land in LA and you're by yourself, you got to figure this out. And then I set it all up and I was like, it works. He's like, no, write a song. And then in high school, when I was like a beast at it, after school every day, I would go home, write a song and play it by dinner time for all of them. Every day. My dad's like, you're not...

really great at something until you've done it 500 times, been write 10,000 songs. And so I was trying to get my hours in. He's a big part of this story. Yeah, he's a big part of this. But I bought him a house and was like, we good? Yeah. Do you feel like you owe him? Yeah. I got a job in Australia to do Australian Idol.

And half of my paycheck, I was like, I'm bringing the whole fam and my dad. He's never been. He's 75. We're going to live in Australia. So that's how I try to pay him back. This is my dream. Your daughters are going to pay you to go to Australia. I'm willing to buy my own ticket. But if they want me there while they're doing something like that is the dream. It was sick. Stay tuned for more FarmShare Expert. If you dare.

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Thank you.

Between 15 and 17, you wrote three albums and produced them yourself. So embarrassing. Because of songs, I'm like, oh my God, I hope no one hears them. Well, that was going to be one of my questions. What on earth are you writing about at that age? So much love. You just were desperate to be in love. My mom's like, who are you? Anyone who didn't like me. Yeah, the first ones, I didn't know what love was. And then the third album, I went through my first heartbreak. And then that album that I wrote and produced, I was like, oh my God.

I got a publishing deal because of it. So I was like, this is my Adele album. Fuck you. I win. Yeah. This would be my guess.

is that you would present very boy-friendly because of the brothers. And then it would turn out that you are a girl with emotions. And the boy would be like, hold on. He would present as male. I thought you were a bro with boobs. Also, when I got quote-unquote famous and started looking way prettier than I did, I got fake hair. I got makeup. I've never been prettier. I'm gonna find love. And then I would go out with my bro and...

No one would approach me. No one would speak to me. And then we'd go home and eat pizza. This is post? Right after bass where I'm like, oh my God, guys are going to line up for me. Don't look at me. How do you explain that? I asked my bro. I was like, dude, do I give off mean vibes? Am I a monster? And he was like, no, dude, you just take over a whole room. And sometimes that's intimidating for weak guys. Yeah. Daryl was the first guy that was so brave. We were hanging out. He was playing piano.

singing terribly Coldplay. And I was like, Jesus Christ, who is this guy? Why is he singing to me right now? The ball is on this guy. That is ballsy. But he was really swinging for the fences playing Coldplay. There's a sky

for the star you know and i was like what are you doing he lives and dies for coldplay that's number one and then i'm number two that's a good pick well it sounds like coldplay's number one ryan's number two you're number three in the previous story daryl is in love with my brother okay so you're also kind of hungry to learn so you are doing it in high school you're receiving some instruction but then you're also going to these camps through berkeley in the summer you wikipedia me dude how do

You have an excessively long Wikipedia by chance. Oh my God. I tried to whip up a theory. It's not real. Yes, I did go to summer camp. I went to band camp at Berklee College of Music because I was trying to get into their college. So I heard if you go there for three years, you get kind of a discount when you go in or you automatically get in. I did two years and then I got the third year for free or something. So I was like doing good. And then I got into the school, but I got 20 grand off or something out of 60 grand a year. And I was like,

Well, that stings. And that would have been to go to college there? Yeah, college. And at the same time, I signed a publishing deal already. But you go to Nashville for a music convention. Even weird. I went to Durango, Colorado. Oh, Durango. Okay, I've been. And they did a songwriting expo. But all the publishers I met were from Nashville. So, right. This is the part that I'm very curious about because I know how it works in acting. But I'm curious, if you're in Nantucket and you want to be a songwriter and you're going to band camp in the summer, what are these expos?

My mom was Googling everything. She was signing me up for all these songwriting competitions online, like on taxi.com or something, and was like, you won. And I was like, what did I win? And they were like, the front page of their website. I was like, hell no.

Yeah. She was just trying to prove to herself, I'm not just like a mama who loves my baby so much. There's good here. And so they looked up songwriting places where you could go and submit your song. And that's what these expos were. And they were terrifying. Yeah. How do they work? Hundreds of people walking around in this hotel. You're lost. I'm like, I've never seen so many people in my life. You feel stupid, right? Stupid. Yeah. My dad was with me. We would go into separate ballrooms with a lot of chairs and then four dudes up at a table with a shitty boombox.

ready to play your CD. Oh, wow. And you would walk up when it was your turn, hand in the lyrics, hand in the CD, and be like, it's track seven. And then sit while the entire room watches you get judged. They listen to the song, you don't perform it. They listen to the song. While you're sitting there. While you're sitting there. I was so nervous that I wrote on top of it. I'm 17, I produced it in my basement. Trying to be like, yo, go easy on me, dude, please.

Please. Yeah, yeah. Setting the bar low. Anyone could sign up if you paid like 300 bucks to go. There was some songwriters there that you were like, oh no, this is tough to listen to. Or like 50 year old men that were like, this is my dying dream. And you're like, it shouldn't be. It's going to be me next year. How many folks were your age? There was a few of us. And it was us with our parents. But I remember the first year I went, they were like, your lyrics don't really make sense, but your melodies are really great and your production is great. And I was like, well, that tracks. I'm 16. That was good advice, I guess. Yeah.

Yeah, they're nice, but you're just so afraid. And then my dad's like, we're going again. I was like, I don't want to go again, dude. All they do is rip apart your songs and make you feel bad. And he was like, but you wrote a whole new album since then. And it is way better. We have to go show them what you learned. And that was the album I got my publishing deal from. It's hard not to love dad. I love dad. I love dad. I'm interested in what dad's doing. Because he was like, I'm not going to teach you. I'm keeping sort of arm's length, but also very much not.

It sounds like he had the perfect distance. Yeah, they've never been my managers or my momagers. They've never been like, do this or else. I never felt guilty if I lost something. But like he stepped in at the moment that you needed to be told to give it another shot, which is interesting. And so when I went there the next time, there was talk. Oh man, Megan's going to get the deal this time because someone's going to get a publishing deal out of that. But it's rare. It's like if you get it, you are the queen.

Yeah, well, it's these stories of these casting workshops where someone really does. It never happens. It never happens. But we were just interviewing... Oh, Eric Dane from Grey's Anatomy. He had gone with Alicia Silverstone. Yes, he had some success. I can't believe they do that for acting. I didn't know that. How are you going to get in front of a casting director if you don't have an agent? How are you going to get in front of an agent? Normally it's a scam.

A lot of it's a racket. I mean, yeah, I felt like I was at a place that was a scam, but it worked. And then at the end of the convention, they have legendary songwriters go up and perform. And I told my dad the second time, I was like, Dad, my goal is to be on that stage someday and come back and play. One of the songwriters there, Big Al, Al Anderson...

and another writer who was really great named Chris Galbuta, who's now my best buddy. They were friends hanging out, hearing my songs, and they were just so impressed with my album that I wrote. How old were they? Big Al was an old dude, like 60. And then Chris was...

a young but old at heart dude that was like 30, I want to say, 35. They wanted to write with me and I was like, I'm going to shit myself. This is the coolest day ever. And we wrote a song called Can't Blame a Girl for Trying. And it was the cutest song on my ukulele. And Al said, we're going to sing that at the last performance.

And I was like, on the big stage? And he was like, mm-hmm. I was like, dad, I'm going to be performing on the big stage at the end of the convention. And he was like, what? Oh, yeah. That's so special. And then we did it. It was so new that I had the lyrics on my phone on my lap. And it's probably on YouTube somewhere. A guy that worked with Disney was there and came up to me after and was like, hi, I'm going to get that song cut. That was wonderful. And I was just like sobbing, crying, calling my mom like, I was on the big stage.

It's happening. I was awesome. And then Sabrina Carpenter eventually cut that song. No.

At Hollywood Records. The same song you wrote at this weird convention. What? Yeah. Oh, my God. I'm a fairy tale and I'm a princess. Queen of the world. Wow. It was a movie. Was this big yellow dog music that signed you? Yeah. I was like 17. They're like, we really want to wait to your 18. You graduated in the same year. This is 2012. Yes, I graduated then. But in high school, I left at lunchtime with my dad to go sign my publishing deal. No kidding. I went back and was like, I got a job.

And my friends were like, whatever. And so what did that look like? I know you graduated and then you spent a couple of years, you were traveling to like New York and L.A. and Nashville to write with people. At that time, and even when you went to the convention, were you wanting to be a performer or just a writer? Big Yellow Dog, this girl Carla, she signed me. When I first went to go sing for them, she was like, well, you should be the singer. Yeah, that's exactly what I said.

So you were being conservative.

This is me. Check it out. You did have the goal. It's just at that time, you were like, I'm happy to just be writing songs. I was like, any way to get in. And I didn't know you could make a living off of being a songwriter. And I was like, what a treat. What did that look like? You wake up at 11 and you show up to the session at noon. It was a dream job for a 19-year-old. And you write a song with other songwriters just trying to make it happen.

So you don't get really paid to go to work. You show up and you write a song and you hope something happens. And then you make a demo of it. And then if someone were to come to Big Yellow Dog Music in search of a song, they would listen to these. Other record labels would come to publishers and be like, "Hey, do you have a song that's like poppy and is about this? I wrote all about that bass."

a year in with this publishing deal. And for nine months, nobody would cut it. Listen, I stumble into a lot of bad blood and stuff because I'm not super dialed in. But you meet somebody along the way, though, right? You meet Kevin. Kevin Kadish. We're still good with Kevin? Yeah. Wait, what do you mean you stumbled in? A lot of these early stories when people... Oh. I don't know if at this point there's been a big... Falling out.

Falling out or does anyone suit anyone? Because that happens a lot. No one sued anyone. We don't talk anymore, but it was wild. I was like 19 and he was a dad. You just got assigned to write with him? My friend was assigned as an artist and she was working with him. And my publisher was like, you got to meet this pop star that we're going to go see. We're going to say hi. And we became best friends.

But I was also like, oh, this is the guy that wrote Geek in the Pink and a bunch of hits. I liked what he did. And so then you guys started working together. Well, I asked, could I work with him? And at first I think he said no.

And then someone convinced him to let me go there and write with him and that I would be better. And the first song we wrote together was all about that bass. Where did it happen? His studio was like a barn outside. There was like a hundred cows. In Nashville? Yeah. I drove like 45 minutes to get there. He was like the highest producer songwriter I've written with. I was so nervous and I was just trying to impress him. And then we chatted, you know, who are you? And I was like, I was a chubby kid from Nantucket. And he was like, I?

was a chubby kid and we bonded over that he showed me a title that he had all base no treble and I was like the kids we say like y'all I'm all about that and we made like I'm all about that base no treble and I was like what if it's base your butt and no tits no treble oh did you know that I didn't know that it's stupid base is like thick thick thick and treble is like so nice and thin I

I love that. Yeah. So then we wrote that song in like 45 minutes and we were laughing because we're like, no one's going to sing this. But I was like, I'll sing the demo, like whatever. And there was like no autotune. I just put on this sassy girl character. Yeah. And I was like, I don't know if you know this, but I can also rap. And I was like, yeah, it's pretty clear. I ain't no size two. No one remembers that I rapped on that song. Right. Which now I'm like, that's embarrassing. It's not.

though I remember leaving the door being like do you like it and he was like yeah do you like it and I was like yeah I think so yeah I think it's good you probably had written other songs that you liked much more that I was like oh these are beautiful these are great big pop songs and then when I heard that Epic Records loved that song I was like do they mean a different song or do they mean that song but there were some steps before anyone loved it right at first you were trying to get other artists to want to

My publishers were. And I remember playing it for like an A&R at one point. And he was like, you're chubby and confident. You think that's a thing? That's cute, but it's not like a hit song. And then later on when I had a record deal for it, all those guys came back and was like, yo, F you for not signing with me. And I was like, I played you that song. You said it was trash. So people didn't like it. But also in that period, you write the song in 2012, I guess, but then it gets canceled.

put out in 2013. You had songs that got bought, I guess, or sang by Hunter Hayes, Rascal Flatts. Hunter didn't release a song, but we wrote together. What about Rascal Flatts? Rascal Flatts had a number one with them. Wow.

Which is 19. So in your 19? Like 19. Do you get paid a lot? I don't know what I made on those songs. You don't? That's my other issue in life. And I've said this before. I don't know what money I have. I have no clue. Okay. That sounds liberating. I don't know if I want to know, but I should know. And they tell me. We have meetings about it. Or they say if you're in trouble. You glaze over. I have my mom there, my dad there, my other manager there, my husband there. And I go talk to me like I'm six, dude. I don't get it. I know. It's confusing.

Can I buy shit or not? Literally, I was like, am I good with this Amazon purchase or no? And they're like, yes, Megan, you're fine. But I know you don't get paid for like nine months at least. So when Bass was huge, everyone's like, how rich are you? I was like, broke. You were trying to sell it and it got rejected mostly. But then is this apocryphal or real? You performed it in front of L.A. Reid? Yes.

He loved the song. I lived in Nashville. Carla was like, girl, they want to meet you. And I was like, what do you mean? She's like, just get over here and sing some songs. And so I met an A&R named Paul Pontius, who was working with Ellie Reed. He said, do you perform for the people? I was like, not all the time, but I have and I can.

figured out and I played in front of him some of my ukulele songs but I didn't play bass he's like could you play bass I was like I could probably learn it I don't like singing dance with tracks and stuff I don't have that down so he was like play it on ukulele when you come to LA sometime and then a week later I went to LA for a songwriting trip and I texted him like yo I'm here and he was like can you play for LA tomorrow oh and I was like oh shit

What's your anxiety level when you get an opportunity like that? I was so scared, dude. I was up till midnight learning. It's three chords. Eating the skin on your fingers and clearing your throat. I played the ukulele and I learned the song. It was three chords. I learned it that night and I sent a voice memo to my parents. I said, I know you're sleeping, but please wake up. I need you to tell me if this is good or not. And they're like, it sounds great. Just don't forget to smile. And I was like, okay. Shh.

I can't imagine that song on a ukulele. Oh, it's so cute. I've heard it everywhere on the uke. Oh, you do? Yeah. I have a uke right now that Coldplay signed. No big deal. Oh, ding, ding, ding, Coldplay. And now I play it everywhere. Wait a minute. Can we get some context for L.A. Reid for those of us in the dark? He ran...

Epic Records, but he also signed everyone ever. Humongous. Hank, Avril Lavigne, Usher. He's like a Jimmy Iovine level. He was very supportive and good to me and always listened to me. He was like, I only trust the artist. And I was like, shouldn't do that, but okay. I went into the office to go play for him and I waited hours.

And I was like, I want to fucking puke. Like, wrap this up, dude. Where is he? And they're like, he's almost done in a meeting. And I heard rumors. Everyone's like, heads up. He brings everyone in the building to come watch. What? I just sat practicing in Paul's office for hours. Were your armpits completely sweated out by the time? Yeah, I put a jacket on for that reason. I like dressed for this. Yeah, I would have been so damp. So damp. So, so scared. And then finally he came in, but he only brought four people in. And I said, is this everyone? And he goes, oh, you want a crowd? One second.

Oh. And then he got everyone. But you didn't want to cry. No, I was like, shut your mouth, you dumb. I was like, if you say another word. So I did that to myself, lesson learned. And then they all came in and they're all crossing their arms. My name is Megan Trainor and I'm a singer-songwriter and this is my song All About That Bass. I'm from Nantucket. I'm a singer from Nantucket. Here I go. And then I sang it. I messed up some chords. And then L.A. and I locked eyes. And he was like, shoo up.

like singing my backgrounds for me and I was like, oh, he's digging it. I'll just stare at him. And he signed you 30 minutes later. Well, they stuck me in a room of all white with no phone, no nothing with my thoughts. They played all about the bass song over and over again. My theory is he's like, don't worry about her. We can fix this. Listen to this. Because they played it maybe eight times and I'm sitting there like, oh my God, oh my God. You can hear them listening? Oh yeah. Oh, you can. And then finally a sweet girl came in and goes, do you want some water? I was like, please give,

my phone and she brought me my phone because I thought I was like a prisoner in there I don't know why I didn't move yeah this is bizarre and then I texted all my family I fucked up I failed I messed up a chord I'm not getting a record deal and then Paul Pontius walks back to me he's like we got you a record deal and I was like are you sure he's like yeah and I was like all right

Oh my God. And then you, I presume, re-recorded it? Everything Everyone Hears is my raw demo. The song never changed. That is mixed by Kevin Kadish. In his barn. From his barn. They said master that. I said, wait a second. Holy shit. Wouldn't that mean that you and Kevin owned the master and the publishing? No, at that time I had zero publishing. Okay. That's a whole nother story. Okay.

Then you had the master? Is that what you got paid on? How did that work? I don't think I have it. I think Epic Records has it. Okay, because it sold 11 million copies when it came out. Now I have publishing for it. But I had to renegotiate my publishing deal because they signed me with no cuts whatsoever.

know nothing so they're like I'm not gonna give you everything so I signed a regular deal for a baby girl songwriter that and then I was like hey we should talk I have a number one song right now and then I gave them five more albums for a normal publishing percentage split this world is a bit fucked as we know from Taylor at any rate because I had a fantasy that you're struggling you're flying all around you can barely afford to live in Nashville you write this song it comes out it sells 11 million copies

I'm thinking that you go from probably zero dollars in your bank account to like three million dollars in an afternoon. No, and it takes nine months. So I was at Park La Brea with my older brother. Oh my God, for people who don't know about Park La Brea. They've heard us talk about Oakwood, which is where young actors go. That's nicer than Park, I think. I don't know.

I don't know. I always dreamt of living at Park. Park? When I first moved. There was like throw up in the elevator a lot for me. And I was like, why, babes? Why couldn't we clean this up? Yikes. Crazy smells, crazy noises. Because that too houses a lot of people here temporarily to pursue their dream. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My mom was helping us. I was paying one grand and she was paying another. Well, that brings us to the success of that song, I'm sure, is one of the more unique experiences of anyone's life. She's my Macarena. Yeah.

she is. And just the total anonymity to, it was number one in 58 countries. Yeah, unheard of. So like a kind of global overnight. We'll never do it again. You know? Well, it is kind of like Pulp Fiction where it's like awesome and also, oh boy, we set the bar real high out of the gates. Yeah, like uh-oh. But,

I think within that enormous success, and you won Grammy Best New Artist of the Year. This thing is a juggernaut. It's number one for weeks and weeks and weeks. I think it brought some haters out of the woodwork. Yeah, the more successful you get, the louder the hate can get. What I was reading, I thought, well, you were dealing with quite a lot of stuff at 20 years old. Is that on my wicca? Yeah.

I just got some hate of the song lyrics. This one seems kind of ironic, which is your body shaming skinny girls. Skinny girls, we got to give a pass here. Yeah, because I said, go ahead and tell them skinny bitches that. That part. People were mad about that. They're so mad at me. I literally say, I know you struggle. I have like the skinniest friends that are like, ew, I look ugly here. I'm here to tell you every interview is perfect. I didn't get that far. They're like, you said skinny bitches and you hate us and we hate you. A lot of people said that.

Or did it just sound loud? It kept coming up in the interviews. That's what that period was riddled with, is that all these interviews, she'd sit down and then they would blast her with like, they're saying this is anti-feminist and they're saying you're body shaming. I kind of want to go like, if you're skinny, we got a girl that's wanted to be lighter her whole life. We can't let this go. And the whole thing of accusing you of being anti-feminist is in itself anti-feminist. It's like, let's attack this 20-year-old girl. I was like, all I do is write anthems for women to love

themselves more. Exactly. It's so stupid. Oh, it just really made me mad reading about it today. I was like, what is wrong with everyone? Can't you see, oh, this is a 20-year-old woman from Nantucket who doesn't feel like one of these hot pop stars. Yeah. And you guys are just blasting her. A lot of people still today ask me like, how do you find this confidence in yourself? And I was like, I write these songs because I don't feel any of these things.

I write these songs so that maybe I can believe them someday. Well, they're almost characters, right? MGK, we interviewed him and he created this persona in high school. This persona was his armor. Like bass, I was like, what do I wish was on the radio? I knew writing, I was like, no one's going to play this. And when they did, I was like, oh, we broke through. And then meeting fans, meeting their parents in the meet and greet, they'd go, hey, we're about to meet my kid. And they wouldn't leave the room for a year until your song came out because they were so sad, insecure and depressed.

And whatever you put in that song, they're happy now. So thank you. And I was like, okay, I got this. Yeah, here's what's feminist is my little girl was walking around the house singing that song feeling a million feet tall. Yeah. And I do think that you come across extremely confident, which is a compliment. Like you come across very confident. I've gotten way more confident. And compliments. And hopefully you've gotten more compliments too. But I think there's a misnomer about sex.

quote, confident people because everyone's confident in some areas and not confident in others. And so they think the confident equals a toughness. Oh, whatever we throw at her, she doesn't care. They equate having confidence with not caring. Or not having feelings. Exactly. Which is so crazy.

crazy, but I think you might suffer from that a little bit. I write songs too about how I don't post all my sad things. I wrote a song called Don't I Make It Look Easy on my last album. I just posted a picture and I read all the comments for an hour and I sat there and was thinking about this for way too long. But just so you know, you won't ever see me cry on this app.

and I have a filter for every single lie. Don't I make this look easy? Just because I'm looking great on Instagram and happy and smile, I'm not one of those people that posts like I'm having a breakdown. So don't compare yourself to my life or think that like everything's great. But at 20, when you are dealing with so many things at once...

Like a dream come true, an impossible hit that you probably are having a hard time comprehending. I couldn't understand. I had no idea. I didn't know about charts. But you're in the real world and if you turn on the radio, your song's on, which is bonkers. Yeah. And it's on for months and months. My parents will still record the little speakers at a Target or something. Yeah. Zoom in and they go, what a banger. I got it the other day. We cannot get over it. If I'm in a store and my shit comes on, my knees collapse. I go, oh my God, that's me. So cool. It's the coolest moment.

Oh, I love it. Was that negative stuff hurting your feelings? Yeah, but not as loud as nowadays. Back then, you saw it less. You didn't have TikTok. My mom, though, it wrecked her because she would stay up all hours of the night on Twitter, back when it was Twitter, and would delete. So I didn't see it. Yeah.

And one night before I was on the Today Show, I saw something so mean. And she was like, I'm so sorry. I tried to delete it before you saw it. And I was like, what do you mean? You delete these? She's like, oh, yeah, I sit there and I delete them all for you. And I was like, mommy. Could you imagine reading people rip your kid apart? No. Well, I was imagining being your dad and hearing some...

asshole in an interview accuse you of not being a feminist or something. That would be impossible for me. He never comments on that stuff. He doesn't. He's trying to lead by example. Maybe. Or we don't even bother him with that stuff. I think it's so heartbreaking for my mom that I'm like, I don't want to

I'm such an open book lately because I don't care that I'm like, I want to help myself not be poop shamed and talk about my anal fissure. Well, I had an anal fissure. Yeah, shit hurts. Normalize some stuff, especially with giving birth and all that. I wrote a book about the gnarly and my mom's like, can we not say anal fissure today? And I'm like...

I don't know. It's a long day. It's fine. And they make me feel normal when I know I'm not the only person that has it. Can we talk about anal fissures for one second? Because the thing I am grateful for, having had an anal fissure... There's nothing to be grateful for. There is. And people with anal fissures will be in the comments section saying, there's nothing good about an anal fissure. Anyways...

The color of the blood is to be observed once in life. It is so... You think it's gorgeous? It is. It looks like Hawaiian punch. It's impossibly red. It is bright red. It is the brightest red I've ever seen. Oh, and then it's mixed with pee. And the first time I turned around and saw that, I was like, what the...

What happened? Yuck. Did I get shot? When I went to a butt doctor finally, because I was like, I can't take the pain anymore. And the girl put a device up there and looked. Immediately, she was like, oh, yeah, that's a big anal fissure. I pictured like a parasite, like a worm. I was relieved to hear anal fissure. Were you? I didn't know what it was. So I was like, oh, my God, I have fissures. Like, I got fish in my ass. Get it out. And she was like, no, hon, it's just a big slice. And I was like, oh.

It feels like a big slice. But the doctor looked and said, oh yeah, you have fish ass. Oh God. This is no problem. I thought she was saying that. I was like, am I going to die? You know? I thought I had hemorrhoids was my assumption because I didn't know about anal fishes. I've never had a hemorrhoid that comes out and I am so terrified of the day.

Me too. Have you had it? I've never had it. Oh, man. But when I saw all that Hawaiian punch, I was like, that must be a hemorrhoid. That's what I thought, too. I was like, it's got to be the internal hemorrhoid, and it's coming out, and I'm going to die like this. And I was expecting it because I sit on the toilet way too long. I had already been warned. I love it. I could spend the whole day there. Well, you husbands, you disappear like that. It's our only sanctuary. It's your only place. But it's not because my kids come in nonstop.

I can't do that. We're potty training my kid, so don't attack me, internet, but I pooped with him. Yeah, that's great. I mean, that's wonderful. Thank you. It should be a big family celebration. Everyone hates when I poop near people, but listen, we both pooped at the same time. He was on his little potty and I was over here. Oh, that's bonding. I use poop grease. I know I can smell my poop, but we're like, we did. Yes. I love that. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert. If you dare.

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You would like this. My ex-girlfriend Bree and I, we had dreamed about one day having enough money and resources to build this toilet that we designed called The Rabbit. It's two toilets that are joined by a central tank system. That way we could hold hands while we were doing it. And then we called it the bunny toilet because when you put the seat up, it would have looked like bunny ears. And you know about my toilets? No. Do you have your own toilets?

What? You're not saying this because of my famous toilets? No. What do you mean? I have two toilets that sit side by side. No. Are you fucking with me? No, you're fucking with me. We. You have dueling toilets in your bathroom? I was on the Tonight Show. They won't stop talking about it. No. Wait, so you and your husband, they sit next to each other? This is so romantic. Yeah, so it is the best invention in my entire life. I can imagine you talking to the contractor. Here they are. One is bougie. This is exciting. Oh my God. I thought you were doing this to me. No. I've never. Oh. Those are my toilets.

They sit side by side. Oh my Lord. When we first got there, there was like an old school bidet. And I was like, we're not going to use that. And I was like, I have an extra toilet. Let's just pop that one next to it. And my plumber laughed at me. Of course. And I said, what's so funny, my dude? Get up there. Like, get it going. And it has a shared toilet paper. I put one in the middle for him. Central toilet paper. I get.

the bougie toilet and he has the cold one. Well, you should get him a brondel, the seat. Yeah, we're moving into a new house and it has a toilet facing this way and a bidet across from it. So I need to make this one a toilet. So it's going to be a little different, but it's a tighter bathroom area. So we will be close. You're going to be like knees to knees. Knees to knees.

So romantic. And that's better. I want to see him. I got destroyed for this. Yeah, of course you did. Well, those people, I don't. Imagine thinking this is normal. I was like, sorry, you don't know what love is. Get over it. You didn't go out and claim, oh, I do the most normal thing. I have two toilets. I said it like once casually on a podcast and then it blew up. Of course. I've had a lot of those moments. But you guys are just comfy. You're so comfortable. I want that. If you got something weird going on in your private parts, I'm like, you need to look.

And that's the person you're supposed to marry, I think. I'm like, will you check out my butt? You know? There's something in there. Look inside. Look inside, my lover. Everyone should be free to have their own comfort level and then find a partner with the same comfort level. But if two people, two lovers, like you and your husband or Bree and I back in the day, and you want to hold hands while you do that. I know. I think it's nice. Yeah. And we have...

Some people are so bummed. They're so upset. Well, I'm bummed because I'm nervous that I'll never be that comfortable. You'd be surprised. No, Monica, we have been together recording the show for six and a half years and then friends for eight years and she has not and will not fart. I won't fart in front of my team, but I will show them my open hooch. Oh,

Wow. In a fitting, you know, I'll be like, it's there. I'm not like, look at this, guys. But they've seen my open hole. But I won't fart in front of them. Farting is different for girls. Okay. Farting feels scary. But also, I'd be fine with my lover pooping in front of me or us being knees to knees. But I'd just pee. Oh, I don't.

I don't like him pooping next to me. I tell him that. I go, you know, we're not supposed to do that. We just pee. Oh. We're not shit. Oh, sorry. It's all for pee. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Oh, I didn't know that. You assumed poop, didn't you? Here's why we did it. Because we have young babies, so we're getting up every hour on the hour. And this dude pees like a girl. So I was like, get out of my way. Oh.

I have to piss. Kristen and I have been in that situation where I'm like, you need to hop up now. Sometimes if I'm peeing and he has to go, I open my legs, I go, go in. And he's like, no, I'm not doing that. There's a shower. Figure it out. So then I solved this crime and I was like, we're going to pee at the same time. Okay, so this is more for number one. This is practicality. This should be a thing. If you have enough money, yeah, why not? Or plumbing, yeah. They're like, your pipes don't work like this. I'm like, come on.

Okay. The other thing that happened shortly after Bass came out is a tour was planned. Your first big headlining tour and your throat exploded. Yeah. And you had to cancel the entire North American tour. And you're 20. What happened? I had a big polyp, like a big blister on my cords and then it exploded to where I could like taste blood. Ah.

from singing every single night and talking all day. And my voice isn't as strong as other artists. Like Rihanna can smoke and drink and then go do a two hour show and kill it. I can't talk very much in a day and then go do a show.

Right. Yours is sensitive. Mine are just sensy. And that's why I do sound the way I am, which is cool because my dad loves it because he's like, I can always tell it's you on the radio because you sound like you. But I had vocal surgery and then it didn't help like it was supposed to. Then I had to do it again with a different doctor. And I haven't had surgery since because she was amazing. Dr. Barbu, she saved my life. If you have vocal issues, go to Dr. Barbu.

What does she do? She goes in there. She went in there and instead of carving off the pimple of the thing because you lose some cord tissue, she's like, I'm going to get the problem, pull it out. And she shows you your whole surgery. The surgery I had before that, nobody showed me what happened. Nobody took notes. I don't know what happened in there. I didn't like it. And she tried everything to not get to surgery. She's like, I'm going to put you with this vocal coach and do these warmups. I need you to be quiet for four months. I did that. Then I ate too many edibles while doing that. Mmm.

And then I lost my mind and then panic disorder started. Then I had panic attacks. All from the edible experience. Yeah. I took 50 milligrams on accident.

Okay. I opened up a demon in my head. They generally come in five milligram. I was doing the Kiva coffee beans. Five milligrams. I was fine. Ran out. Got a lollipop. It was 25 milligrams. Forgot I ate the lollipop. Oh. Was too high. I ate another lollipop. Was in the mood for probably just a lollipop. I said, I want to get really, really high. This is a day off. I was doing a puzzle and I stopped breathing. And I was like. Oh.

Daryl? And my soul left my body. And then it came back later and I was dry heaving all night. It's horrible. But you had the wherewithal not to go to the emergency room. I knew like I fucked up. Or Daryl had the wherewithal. Yeah. I was like, I'm dying. My best friend and my husband sat in bed with me all night. And I was like, just make sure I don't die when I close my eyes. And we watched like Pixar all night.

And then I was high for like three days straight. Oh. Yeah, I wouldn't leave. And then panic attacks. I knew I could get to that place again. And so I would bring myself there all the time. Was that your last edible experience? Yeah. Or have you clawed your way back? Never again. And then I would get paranoid because my brothers used to smoke weed. And I'm like, I can smell it. I'm getting high. It's that bad now. Sometimes if I take Tylenol PM now too, I'm like, I think my heart's stopping. Like I'm pretty sure I'm kind of dying. Yeah.

I have that if I smell Captain Morgan still. You panic? Yeah, well, just because that's the first time I ever threw up. I registered that scent as being poison. Yeah, my husband is an alcoholic too, so he doesn't drink. Oh, no kidding. Oh, yeah. So now I'm in a sober home. Oh, wow. And so I don't drink because of that. I had Shirley Temples on my 30th. Oh, wow. Do you...

wish you could drink more? Not really. I'm not good at it. Even on my wedding night, I had tequila and all I got was a splitting headache. Yeah, that's how Kristen is. I was like, what's going on? I get hungover night of. Right.

Right. Yeah, Kristen's like, I would love to do it, but I have half a glass of wine and then I have a headache. Yeah, I feel horrible. And then I'll either go on Amazon for too long, you know, order some shit I forget about. So there's no point for me. Now, having started so young writing, because here's what you see as a common trajectory with artists is like they have a very prolific period of

And then later in their career, they write less and less and less. And I'm more curious, is that an age thing or is that just there's a window? I think it's also back in the day, they would make money from songwriting. They would make like real cash. We always talk about it now as like he made all his money off that one song.

Right. And he didn't have to do it anymore and was like, I'm going to go live on a beach somewhere. But nowadays, I don't make money from my songs anymore. I make monies from deals on, I'm like an influencer. Or if I have a private gig, I laugh all the time when I'm doing something ridiculous. And I go, I just want to write songs, but this is cool too.

But also as a kid, you were writing them nonstop for the joy of writing them. And you had no fantasy of even making money. So I still do it now because that's my first love and I feel like I'm good at it. And there's fans out there that enjoy it. But I guess I'm curious, what seems like could be the situation is like a young athlete

who burns out on the score. Will I get worse and worse? No, not even worse and worse, just burnt out because you started it so young. Do you have any of those fears? No, because an album cycle for me, I'm not writing all year long anymore. I did back in the day. They would have me do a session every day and I was like, this is too much brain power, dude. Like my brain is going to give up. Even when we're doing sessions for an album, I told them Monday, Wednesday, Friday, I need days off in between to give my brain a break. But some people could do three sessions in one day. And I'm like, that's animals.

work a lot of people do drugs though to help sure a lot of our best writers i like especially as a parent with these young kids i tell them if you want to work with me you meet me at 9 or 10 a.m and then we're done at 6 i want the whole song done i'll be done writing by noon and then i'm just recording it and asking the producer to take six hours on it and usually we'll get the whole thing done which is crazy a lot of people spend months on it but i'm like i want it but

I found producers who are quick like that, who are fast enough to keep up with me. They love it because they're also parents. And they're like, I get to go home, put my kid to bed instead of being in the still till two in the morning. A lot of this shit's completely unnecessary, but it's just how people have been doing it for 50 years. Yeah, usually sessions go till four in the morning. And I'm like, for what? Yeah. Why are we still here? It's almost to say, like, we worked so hard.

Studio rats. I live in the studio. What's one of the crazier private gigs you've been asked to, and you don't have to out the people, but just like scenario. Just recently, my last one was tough. I've been at a couple parties where people have paid an exorbitant amount to get a really prominent singer to come. And I think this is so unfair to the singer because there's like 14 people here or something. It was bad, dude. Tell me.

I can't tell you who, but it was like a bunch of smart people. Very smart, but they knew they were socially awkward. In the meet and greet, they were like, where do I stand? I don't know how to do this. And I was like, it's okay, buddy. Like, come here. And they're like in suits and they were so sweet. So nice and cute. They wanted an acoustic gig and a Q&A for an hour. I did enough songs for a half hour. And in between each song, they would ask me questions about my whole life on a stage in front of all these people. Kind of a club, but a theater too.

I've never heard so much talking in my life. During a musical performance. Yeah, because it's not even their fault. They're like at this company that works all over the world and they've come together at this one place to meet in person for the first time. Yeah. So they're like, Janice. They think it's like your background. They're like...

It's so good to put the face to the email. And they're like, "Chatted up?" And they're like, "So Megan," like screaming with a microphone, "What would you like your legacy to be?" And everyone is talking as loud as they can. And I'm like, "Oh, I don't know. No one cares." And then I sing my acoustic song with my guitar player, Chris, who was at my Durango things with me. And I was just singing my heart out. And maybe four people were watching.

And they're chit-chat. And I was like, I'm in the back of a restaurant again, which I used to do those shows and they were soul crushing. And I was like, don't cry, don't cry, don't cry. But also like, this is a job. This is a job. You're lucky to be here. You're blessed. Give me my money. The mental racket. The mental, oh man. I do think a lot of people would hear that big artists are doing these gigs and there's so much judgment. Like, why would they do it? But this is why, because there's no money.

Yeah, no, and I'm buying a house that I cannot afford. With two toilets. And my managers and I, when we get deals like this, we're always like, we got to do it. We're house streaming. We're going to do all these gigs. Have you played anywhere in the Middle East? No. You probably will at some point. I always hear about these gigs.

like come play at some prince's birthday party. Oh, no, I wish. Oh my God. Yeah. Well, like Rihanna just sang at this Indian wedding and I think it was for like $11 million or something. That's a check. You could really do some house shopping. Yeah. They're there for a reason. Yeah. And then someone else told me this crazy story about,

about playing for like an oligarch i don't know what an oligarch is a russian billionaire that's been anointed by putin oh no yeah not great this was pre-ukrainian invasion he's still bad but they finished their thing and the guy said he wants to hear those two songs three more times and they said well no we don't really do that and the guy was like you're definitely doing that

It became kind of like a mafia. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I do a private gig like that, I go, what else could I do for you? When it's an awkward crowd like that, I do save the day because I go, all right, come up to the front of the stage, FaceTime your daughter or FaceTime your kid or just record and tell me their names. So for half of the show, they were barking out, Stacey and Katrina. And I was like, okay, hi, Stacey and Katrina, it's Meghan Trainor and your mama loves you.

You know, I just did like 50 of those. And they were like, that was the best part. I am your entertainer tonight. I'm here for you. Okay, this is potentially dicey, but I'm so curious. I'm only willing to really bring this up because I just watched this horrific video. But you were on a show. You were one of the hosts with Puff Daddy.

And I had a really weird run-in with him early on when I just was on Punk'd, where we almost fought, but he had a bunch of security guards. And I didn't like him then. I was like, I don't like this guy. He's a dark motherfucker. And then I just saw this fucking video. Have you seen the video of him assaulting the woman in the hotel? It's the most gruesome serial killer. Oh, yeah. He beat her. On a video. I mean, it's...

It's so fucking dark. Like, can you go to prison for that? Her big statement that's come out of that is basically like, I appreciate everyone having that reaction and people need to listen to women the first time they say it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's her big takeaway, which is incredible. She's been saying this. Yeah. I didn't even know anything other than that video. I don't know like any of the backstory. She had already said that that had happened. And no one really cared or listened. And now people are listening. But how was the show? It was hard. It was hard. It was hard.

The first thing that was hard was the hours because we were told, okay, we're going to start shooting at 8 p.m.,

And we didn't start shooting until midnight. What was the show? It was called The Four, and it was a talent competition show. It was like a brand new show that he was a producer on, and we were trying to make it a big thing, like American Idol, one of those. It was a great concept. It was very cool. The singer would come out and audition. If we liked them, they would get a blue circle, and it was up to us to decide. But we weren't on each other's teams. It was a singing competition. Singing competition. And it was me. At one point, Charlie Walk, who was...

then got canceled immediately during Me Too. Sounds like a really safe environment for you. That group, they were like, are you okay? I was like, no. Khaled was very sweet. He was a big teddy bear and he was always kind. And I saw like,

Oh, nobody knows this. You guys are going to get Scooby-Doobs. I just saw Diddy not be nice to him. Fergie was the host. This girl's in a corset and a dress and heels, working her ass off, has a kid at home waiting for her, and she's there working, and me and her are there right on time, ready to go on stage, and we're waiting for hours. And then they finally show up. Like, I saw Diddy yell at Khaled, like, you look like Easter Bunny change. Bully, like, go change your outfit. And I was like, no.

Oh, Khaled, you look great. I'm sorry. You know, like... And then there was always drinks under the tables. I would knock him over on accident all the time. And I was like, I'm going to die here. He's going to be so mad. But we were cordial. I try to be friendly and like, how you doing? But there's a moment on the show where I'm crying. And they turned it into, are you sad the artist is leaving? And I was like, yes, but it wasn't that. Ugh.

Weird, dude. And I meet so many people now, years later, who are crew guys. And they come up to me and they're like, yo, I did the four with you. And I was like, are you okay? And they're like, nah. It was one of those shows. People use that as an example of what we're not going to do. Because it went till four in the morning and we were miserable. Those poor singers had to sing at like 2 a.m. Oh my God. Hope you're good. A lot of them are 16, you know? Yeah.

None of it made sense, but people loved it and it still has viral clips, but it'll never be a show ever again, I hope. Doesn't seem like it based on what's going on. Yeah, and that video rattled me. Yeah, it's very disturbing. It made me so angry. Okay, let's talk about, most importantly, Timeless. The T-Pain song, Been Like This, is already out. How does one decide... I love that song. Yeah, it's really good.

You've worked with a lot of rad people. And you guys are from such different backgrounds. I've loved him the most my whole life. When I had my agency meeting with CAA, they were like, who's your favorite artist? And they've only heard all by the base. So they thought some doo-wop person, you know? And I was like, T-Pain. They laughed and they were like, huh? I was like, T-Pain is my god and my king. And he's taught me everything I know. And I want to pee next to him. Literally. And every year on every interview, they're like, who are your favorite songwriters? And I'm like, Carole King and T-Pain. Oh.

and I always bring him up and they're like that's so funny you just love this guy and then recently he's been blowing up on TikTok because people are like did you know he could sing and I was like yeah I've always known yeah I'm first one out of tune can only do so much okay but that dude is musical and all his tiny desk performances are popping off and so I knew I always wanted to collab with him and I finally got his number he knows how much I love him and I was like

My dude, my dream in life is to have a song say featuring T-Pain. I'll do whatever it takes. I will send you a hundred songs. I sent him Ben like this and he was like, this is incredible. I would love to. Come on. It went that well. It went that well. It was so good.

Then he ghosted me forever. For like months. Uh-oh. Monica. Triggered by being ghosted. I was like, oh no. He hates me and he hates it. So I sent another sign. I was like, if that one sucks, this one can work too. Still ghosted me. And my team was literally like, where is he? Did he text back? And I was like, no. And I'm freaking out. Then it was my birthday. And so I gave up on that dream. But I was like, at least have T-Pain show up to my birthday, please. That's all I'm asking. I was like, no.

I was like, I've never got to hug him. Like, please, if you don't get T-Pain, I'm going to be pissed. And so then they got me a cameo and they played it for me in the beginning of the day and I was devastated. I was like, that's it? Yeah, this is not what I, no. I was like, I could have paid for that. And then later that night after the party, they're like, there's one more gift in the basement for you in the studio. And I was like, I'm so tired, dude. I'm done. What is it? And he was like, I can't tell you. It's a puppy. Let's go. And I was like, what? And then I went down there and...

My whole family was there and friends. I saw a security guard and I was like, what's happening? And then they're like, hey, Megan, what's this? And he came out the bathroom, did a poop joke. I said, don't go in there. Oh, we love him. I love him. And my knees broke and I fell. I was laughing and crying at the same time. And I finally got to hug him. It was the best hug of my life. And I was like, you look so good.

And he's like, thank you. And then he was like, not only did I feature on Been Like This, but I also featured on your other song you sent me. So he had already done it. Oh, yeah. My team effed with me and said, don't tell her you did it. Save it for her birthday. Oh, my God. What was the gap between you sending...

Like four to five months. This is a long game they're playing. Was this December 22nd? Yeah. I renewed my vows, too. On that same day? Yeah, every five years. This is the day. It was the best day I'll ever have, so it's over now. Also, big birthday, 30th birthday, renewed vows, T-Pain drops a steamer and then comes out of the bathroom. It's the perfect joke. It was the best day, and then we played all our songs for each other. Oh, man.

And my dad was crying because he knew that was like my lifelong dream. So when you ask someone like that to feature on your song, you send them the song and then they just send you back? Usually, yeah. He lives in Atlanta, so I knew he had a studio there and he records all his vocals himself and produces all his tracks. So...

I was like, yo, if you just lay a verse on this, send it back. Let me know. And there would never be any talk beyond that, right? Like you could never go like, oh, I love 97% of it. But this one line, you would never be able to give notes on a feature. I wonder if you could. They're mostly great. You don't give it to an artist that you don't trust. He murdered it. Both of them. And the coolest part was the other song is called Love Unhold. Both my brothers wrote that song with me. What? So when he played that, my mom and dad were sobbing. And they were like, we wrote a song with T-Pain on it.

Too many dreams came true that day. Do you have other fun features on Timeless? Yes, I have Niecy Nash. I know. The greatest actress ever and like a comedian beyond. She is on Reno 911. She's on Getting On. She just won an Emmy for Help Me Out With This Show. She's on Claws, but she won an Emmy for her drama acting.

Dahmer. Dahmer. Dahmer. She was the neighbor that was like, something's fishy here and it's not my anal fissure. You know what I'm saying? She was like, something's going on. Not an anal fissure. Okay, now listen. I love serial killer stuff. I was so excited to see Dahmer.

I couldn't watch it. I couldn't watch it. I couldn't watch it. Why couldn't you? Too much. Too real. My thing was knowing the smell. They made such a meal over the fact that he had rotting bodies and he kept trying to cover up all the smells. I don't like when he gets gross. I could watch slaughter, dude. I could watch murders and I could not watch this. That might be the only thing I was too much for me. You've got to shut this off. That and reindeer. I'm making my way through it. Oh, there's a reindeer. Oh, there's a reindeer.

Baby Reindeer. Baby Reindeer is the best show ever. It's incredible. It is a tough watch. It's so hard to watch. But my good God, I hope that actress wins every award there is. Me too. It just triggers when I shouldn't have slept with someone and I did, and then I have to be nice and I have to go through that whole experience. That's my most hated moment in life. You feel guilt and shame and then you want to be kind, but you want to get out of there. That was so overwhelming, just the beginnings. Yeah.

And then his whole fucking getting molested and the drug addiction stuff. I'm like, Jesus Christ, now this is my story and I've got to watch it. Some people I know, I'm like, oh my God, watch...

You know what? Don't watch that show. Not for you. Not for you. I'm watching it, but I don't think it shows ever taken a bigger toll on me. The amount that he went through. I feel like someone's been through a little bit of each moment. It's so relatable on so many little tiny places. Oh, my God. Her text. Oh, my God. I cannot. You're just in bed like, no. Oh, my God. And when you find out it's real and he's the guy, I looked it up. I was like, dude.

What a brave story to tell. My last episode was the crazy drug episode. Yeah, me too. Episode four. Bro, keep going. It's hard. Keep going. That one took it out of me. Keep going. We'll do it for you. It's great. It gets better. Also, it locked into like how desperately he wants to get into comedy and he's out there and that guy just preys upon him. It's like, okay, great. Now I'm back to just moving to LA and I just would do anything to be seen. It's wild.

There are guys like that, for sure. They're like, you want to be a little star? That's cute. And I was like, I got to get out of here. Yeah, scary. Okay, so Niecy, had she ever sang before? No. She had an amazing speech when she won an Emmy. She's like, and you know who I want to thank? I want to thank me for believing in me and doing what they said I could not do. Because she was always in comedy and she was like, I could...

could crush a dramatic show. I'm an actress that can do it all. And that clip went viral of her. And the next day, my managers, we were like all crying watching her win the award. I always asked them, like, I need inspo to write. My life is pretty great and boring right now. And they sent me that clip and they were like, duh. So I wrote a song. I think your kids will love it. It's like, I want to thank me.

And it's a big, upbeat, awesome song. And I use her quote in the beginning. And I use her throughout the song. And I sent it to her that night. I wrote it and was like, if you get the chance to record yourself listening to this, I would love to know if you like it. I would love it to say featuring you. I'd love you to get publishing on this. I want you to be my co-writer and...

I would also love, if you do approve this and love this, can you come over and sing backgrounds on it? And she sent a video of her like sobbing, listening to it, clapping. She's like, I didn't even know this could be a possibility from winning that award. And then her wife and her and her daughter came over and sang backgrounds and it was the best day. Oh my God. My mom was just fangirling so hard. You've had so many great days. We've had a lot of great days. I'm happy for you. Thank you. I never want to die. I'm sorry.

It's too good. I think we should not. It's not good. It's too good here. And my past life must have sucked if that's real. You know what I mean? Or Sim, you must consider the fact that you could be in a simulation. All the time. I'm like, please don't wake me up. Right. Too good. Don't unplug. Yeah. How old are your babies? 10 months old and three and a half. Okay.

Oh, wow. So you're really... We're deep in it. Yeah. And will there be a third or not? Yes. I'm going to have two more girls. Two more. You already have two girls? No, I want two girls. I have two boys. Oh, I see. Oh, yeah. I need my daughter. So you're manifesting it? There's a lot of dudes in my house.

Yeah. Are you trying weird sex stuff where like there's positions that are supposed to make the sperm that's slow go uphill? It's like all my husband's fault, but I love my boys. They're perfect. Apparently, it's only up to him. On the second baby, I tried eating extra acidy foods. I took some weird questionable stuff from Amazon that I was like, this could make all the difference. I did a weird position. Just so you know, I'm not yawning because of you. You've yawned twice now and I'm taking only personally. I knew you clocked it.

No, listen, I knew you clocked it. What's wrong with you? I left Lisbon, Portugal yesterday. Okay, you're jet lagged. At 7 p.m. here. What were you doing there? Oh, Jesus shit. The yawn, I wanted to clear up. Yes, thank you. Twice. I saw you register at both times. You're like, oh, fuck, this guy's yawning. How was the concert? Was it great?

Oh. I was head to toe in pink for Lover. Quite a time to be alive. Sorry, Monica. I hope people have those moments at my concerts. They do for sure. They have to and they will. I was even debating whether or not to tell you the Delta story because I live with someone who gets that all the time. Kids' relationship with Frozen is obviously very powerful. And so I see my wife quite often hear from parents, there's only so much you can take on.

It's very hard to compute. You're hearing it, you know intellectually what that means. But when you're on the other side of it, it means so much to you. So like Delta singing that song for a year. It's the greatest thing. It is the greatest thing. But I can't imagine...

you can necessarily internalize that you did something and it was a part of someone's life. So definitely kids were at your show and they were there with their dads and their moms and their dads and their moms got to see them be happy in a way that nothing but music can make someone happy. Yeah, it's a power. And it's the sweetest moment on earth.

And yeah, you can give that to people. It's crazy. Okay, so everyone should check out Timeless. The whole album, you will tour with Timeless. Yes, September and October. And where will you be going? All of America. Will you be here? Yes. Can we go? I will be at the Q Forum. You have tickets. I'll see you there October 19th. Please be here. Oh, okay. I would love to bring my daughters. Your daughters can come on stage. I'll do whatever they want. Okay.

I know that'd be too much. That show, I told everyone to go on stage. Paris Hilton's going on stage. Oh, really? So LA is the show. I hope TK will be there. LA is the show. It's going to be the last show of the whole tour. Fun. So we're going out with a bang. It's also like my last bucket list. I've never got to tour arenas. And people think I do all the time. They're like, of course you could. I'm like, nah, I haven't. And I didn't tour for seven years, so I don't know if people are coming. But I'm doing Madison Square Garden, which I want to throw up. I can't believe that's real. You've never performed there? No. And Natasha Bedingfield is opening next year.

Which is a joke. It should be the other way around. Paul Russell will be there who sings, give me a little boo thing. Oh, I love that. He's so nice. He's so sweet. I was just with him. And then my good friend, my TikTok lover, Chris Olsen. I don't know if you've seen him on my videos. He's so good. You don't know anything. We're not on TikTok. Okay, he's memos. He is going to do something. He can sing. He can dance. He can act. He's great. And then my older brother never has DJed before, but he is going to be the DJ every single night.

I love this. This tour will be his first recital. This is wonderful. And he's my child again. You lured him back in to your home. You're my baby boy, and this is your first time performing. It's cute that you live on your own, but now you're coming with me for two months on the road. What other cities? We're doing Red Rocks.

Oh. Literally never been to many of these places. Nervous. I'm so excited. It'll be fantastic. We're very excited to come see you. Where do people go to get tickets for this? My Instagram, there's definitely a link. Link in bio. You got a link tree? Yeah, it's gotta be there. Zile. TikTok.

It's got to be there. Okay, you're on TikTok as well. I got 18 million followers on TikTok. Dang, girl. Whoa, 18.5. I slay on there. I'm an influencer now. I dance. Yes. I do fun fun. I talk about my anal fissures. Oh my gosh. And the people love the realness. This is the first time I'm regretting not being on TikTok. Oh man, you would love it there. And you would hate it.

okay megan you're so fun i hope everyone listens to timeless but more importantly i hope they go immediately and buy tickets to see you on tour show up september and october please come to my show if i see empty seats i'm gonna cry no they're gonna come to your show there'll be no crying tell everyone you know about the album please yes timeless we will be at this la show and we are excited dude you're gonna be on stage what are you gonna wear don't make me sing i'm

Don't make me sing. Thank you for having me on this podcast. This is huge. And I get to meet your mom now? It's the biggest podcast I've ever been on. Yeah, she's outside. She'll freak out. She's like, I'm honored to sit in this driveway. Love you. Bye. Love you. Stick around for the fact check. Because they're human, they make lots of mistakes. Are those called jellies? Yes, they are. They are. They're still called jellies? Jelly shoes. Jelly shoes. I call them that.

Was that an actual brand or a description of a shoe? I think it was a description. Okay. Unless maybe there was an original brand. Jellies. But I think it was just a description. Do you think anyone thought that meant the shoes were jealous?

I hope not. Okay. You're getting tacos tonight? Taco Tuesday, this lovely couple that we've hung out with a few times at the fishing lodge trip invited us up to do Taco Tuesdays. Ooh. Yeah. Well, that'll be fun. What kind of tacos are you gonna eat? Well, I'm always nervous when I attend, you know, the fucking diet's so goddamn restrictive. It's like, you know, I'm just praying they have corn taco shells. Oh, fuck.

Now, what's the move if they don't? I guess I'll have a plate of the ground beef and throw some lettuce on top and some salsa. Now, I have a question. Ask it. Oh, I have to pick the right person. Oh, okay. This is a thought experiment. Okay. I guess we'll go with Letterman. Letterman.

Oh, this is high stakes already. Yeah, that's the point. David Letterman you're referring to. No, Jonathan Letterman. Oh, Jonathan Letterman, yeah. Okay, if Letterman called you, called. Oh, that'd be fun, yeah. And then you picked up and you said, hey, Dax, it's Dave. I really enjoyed...

My time with you, I've been thinking a lot. Six years ago. Okay. I've been thinking about you a lot lately. Oh, wow. And I'm wondering if you want to come over for dinner. Would you ever want to do that? Yeah. Tonight? I plan tonight, but how about on Friday? Could you do Friday? Of course. Yeah, I would love to. Oh, I'm really looking forward to that. I really want to talk to you about sobriety and... Oh, great. It's my favorite topic. Oh, I thought that... Well, that and molesting.

Oh, I wanted to talk to you about that too, actually. Great. I can't wait to hear. All right, great. Well, come over at six. I'll send you my address. My wife and... Uh-oh, does he have a wife? Yeah, he's got a wife and a child. My wife and child will be there. Okay. Should I bring my wife and childs? Yes, please. I would love that. Okay, bye. Okay, bye. Hang up.

And then you get ready. First of all, what are you going to wear? You know, my normal stuff. Levi's jeans and a t-shirt probably. Okay. Let's go back to the phone call. And I'm going to dress up. You don't have to. You don't have to. Okay, good. I won't because I don't dress up generally. Oh. Okay. Well, that's fine. Okay. Great. I'll see you then. Can't wait. Click. Okay. Okay. And you're really not going to dress up? No. No, no, no, no, no. I don't dress up.

You know my feelings on this. You do. I've ranted on this. All it is is this elaborate system to establish class and rank. Not in this case. That's how it started. But it's just vestigial. We're carrying on with it. No. If he's like... It's also fun to dress up. Sure. If you like dressing up, great. But the notion that people need to present in a certain way to...

establish that they belong in a certain place, I fundamentally reject. He just likes doing that and he... Then he should. He should do everything he likes. Wow, you're really not gonna come... I would never dress up to appease someone's sense of propriety. But if it's like, I'm hosting a fun dinner where people dress up... Yeah, but it's like, I'm gonna wear red shoes because they're fun. Will you also wear red shoes? That's crazy. No one would ever request that. So like, I'm gonna wear a suit, cool.

I don't know what that has to do with me wearing a suit, right? I think... I'm gonna wear my hair up. I'm gonna wear braids. I'm gonna wear a watch tonight. Like, why is the suit any different than any other thing? I'm gonna wear a watch on Friday. Are you gonna wear a watch?

It's different. Tell me how. It's not different in theoretical terms. It's different in the reality of the world we live in. Yeah, we do live in a world where you're trying to establish your status by how you dress. We do live in that world. I don't deny that. Okay, we're going on, I am going on a vacation with our friends for 4th of July. And there's a dinner one night that Charlie's planning. And he said, dress up. Oh, great. That sounds great. It sounds like everyone wants to. Well, I.

Well, I don't know if everyone wants to. He just said that. And I think it would. It sounds like what you're saying maybe is it's really fun to put more effort into something to symbolize that this is important. Is that fair?

I get. Sure. I mean, I'm not thinking about it that intensely. I'm just saying if someone tells me, we're having this dinner and we're throwing it and dress up. It'll be fun. I'm going to dress up. Like, I'm just not thinking like, oh, but I hate dressing up. So, fuck. Like... Right. I...

I'm not gonna do it. I would just do it because it doesn't cost me. Right, because you enjoy being dressed up. That's a huge difference right here. I cannot stand wearing a suit and a tie and a button-up shirt. Just because it's uncomfortable. It's totally uncomfortable. And then I sit down and like, I gotta get this jacket off. It's insane to wear this jacket. You would never wear your normal jacket during dinner because it's really restrictive and it's a second layer that you don't need because you already have a shirt on.

But there's this other jacket we've decided you should wear while you're eating, which just on the surface, we would agree is pretty preposterous. Well, that's different, I guess, for me. Because like, no, if I'm wearing a jacket, it's part of my outfit. I'm wearing it at dinner. I'm not thinking like... Yeah, and you love it. You want to. Like you're excited how you look in the jacket and everything. Yeah.

But for me, I don't enjoy being in a suit. The collar's always too tight on my neck. I've got a tie that's gotta constantly be adjusted. And then I've got this thing on. Do I take it off and drape it over my chair? Am I supposed to have it buttoned? All of it, I don't enjoy. So if I said like, guys, come over, we're doing cowboy boot night.

And then my friend goes, oh, cowboy boots really hurt my feet. I go, great. Don't wear them. Okay. But like you wore a suit to the day we were supposed to wear suits at Bill's, Bill Gates' day when we were in India. Yeah.

Oh, well, I was mandated. Okay, so you would have to be told specifically. Yes, and now to go on a business trip where we're going to interview somebody and it's for my job, I'll wear a suit to a premiere because that's my job. But a dinner at a friend's house, if they're saying you got to wear a suit to my house for a casual dinner—

I'm going to have a hard time with that. Is there anyone? That I would wear a suit to their house? If they did what I did, which is like, you know, some of us are dressing. We're dressing up. Can I ask you? No pressure, but everyone's dressing up. Yeah. Why is it important that I'm also dressed up to you, host of this dinner? Well, I'm not the host. David Letterman is. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He doesn't care. Great. Then, of course, I'll just dress how I'm comfortable.

And you're not uncomfortable being in a place where everyone is dressed up. No, not at all.

Not at all. Okay. Well, that answers my, because this wasn't the thought experiment. It now became the thought experiment. Oh, that's kind of fun. But it was basically the same thought experiment, which is you arrive at Letterman's house. He's made dinner. Mm-hmm. Homemade. Yeah. And you can't technically eat any of it. Would you eat it? No. No, I'm not going to injure myself to make someone happy. Well, but wait, there's always something for me to eat.

So you just find something. Yes. But what if everything had garlic and gluten? Like, I mean. Well, then I couldn't eat it. I can't eat. Monica, are you suggesting I eat something that's going to make my joints hurt and my skin flake off and my eyebrows to be polite? Kind of.

It's a white Thai garlic bread party. It's one thing if he didn't make it. If he ordered food, there's less pressure there. Right. But I think if someone makes food for you and you go, like you accept the invitation, you go and you do not eat the food.

I think that's really bad. Let me just paint another scenario. I'm the host. I invite six people over. I make six ribeye steaks. The guest goes, I'm vegetarian. Well, obviously you can't eat the steak. It doesn't hurt my feelings. They're a vegetarian. I wouldn't be offended if...

And that wouldn't even injure them. So this other food that someone made for me, if I go like, oh man, if I eat that garlic and that gluten, tomorrow my wrists are gonna hurt so bad I won't be able to journal in the morning and then my eyebrows are gonna flake off and turn red. You'd have to be a crazy host to still want me to do that. I mean...

I mean, there's no difference than someone like going, I'm allergic to apples. I have a hard time breathing if I eat an apple. And I go, I'm still going to need you to eat this apple. You have done it many, many, many times. And lived in real agony. I mean, there's 10 years where I didn't even know that's what was going on. I was seeing a surgeon for my knee. No.

No, but I'm talking about more recently when you've known before you got super, super strict on this diet, you would do stuff. You would eat stuff. I wouldn't know. Oh, I'm flaking. Yeah. And also I would take my, I would take my immune suppressant before I did that. I mean, it happened one night at the fishing lodge, which is like, um, what got put out was like gluten, gluten, gluten, then garlic mash, garlic, asparagus, and then fish. Um,

So I couldn't eat anything. I don't eat fish. So I just didn't eat. But I was a blast at the dinner party. I told a lot of stories and joked and talked and had fun. And then I got back to my room and I had a tub of cottage cheese with ground beef poured over it. Jesus.

Okay, so no one. Do you think though that there's an inherent difference from our childhood foundation which allows me to do this and for you it'd be scary, which is like you'd be really pointing a finger at your otherness. It's more than an otherness. It would feel rude and like the last thing I could ever be is rude. Right. Right.

- I didn't have the leeway of being rude at all. - Yeah, totally. But I would argue that even if when I walked in, you thought I was rude for not wearing the proper outfit, over the course of a dinner, you'd realize I'm not rude at all. I'm very thoughtful and conscientious of other people. And you would go, "Oh, he's not rude. He just didn't wear the outfit." Like, I think my character would shine much brighter than my outfit choice. If I left someone's dinner and they concluded I, Dax Shepard, was a rude person,

Because I hadn't had the right outfit on. I can't see that happening. Yeah, but what about the food? The food is more likely to cause a rudeness. Right, again, and if someone thought I was rude because I was unwilling to eat food I'm allergic to. Yeah, you don't care. Yeah, that would be, and I just, I can't see that happening. If they spent the whole night with me and I was asking them questions about themselves and engaging. That's a different question.

Kind of. It's more like- Disrespectful? Yeah. To me, they're very similar. Like rude and disrespect are the same to me, I guess. Yeah. And to be fully honest, I am disrespectful. I don't respect the premise of wearing suits. I want to move on to the food thing because that's why, this is how I was trying to start. Oh, because Taco Tuesday. That was the actual thought experiment. It got thwarted by the suit. Right.

But the food thing is really why I wanna ask. 'Cause you're going to someone's house tonight and there's a, you don't know what's gonna be there. Yep, I might not be able to eat. Back to the dinner party. The host is cooking. So in that case, she's like, "Oh, you're gonna love this carne asada. I cooked it with 10 cloves of garlic." I would then have beans and rice.

Wait, okay. But I'm back to Letterman's house. Oh, okay. Okay? Okay. So, yeah, there's zero for me to eat at the dinner. Yeah, I want it to be so that, like, you're in a rock and a hard place where you have a plate that's empty or you, like—

Would you ever... Because I think if I were in that position, I would... Move it around your plate. Yeah. Honestly, I would probably just eat it. Yeah, yeah. I'm just sucking it up and having the scratchy face for a day. But if it's not, then I would just pick...

pick it around and like mess up my plate. Cut it up, move it, dump some in your napkin. Yeah, but I'm never just putting like a plate with no food or not putting a plate in front of myself. I would go, I'm so sorry. You clearly worked all day on this. It looks delicious. I would love to eat it. I can't eat garlic or gluten. I should have told you that ahead of time. So I can't eat anything. And they would go, oh my God, what are you gonna eat? So sorry. And I would go, I'm sorry.

I'm delighted to eat cottage cheese. I can go grab something out of your fridge. I know you don't want me to sit here and not eat. Let me just grab something. I'm so simple. Oh, no. I could fix this easily.

No, I don't have any cottage cheese. My wife will eat all this food, so you'll have one of us. Okay, take them away then. It has to be just you. You can't pawn it off on anyone else. He's made this elaborate meal for me. I don't have any cottage cheese here. I don't eat cottage cheese. Okay. Would you mind if I looked in your fridge? I guarantee I can find myself one. Oh, no, my fridge smells really bad. There was a stink bug in there earlier today, and I don't feel really comfortable with you opening it. Do you have a stick of butter?

I used it in the garlic. In the garlic puree? Yeah.

In the garlic smoothies. I'll order you something. Don't worry, I'll order you something. Oh, again, that is, I really could. This guy doesn't eat anything I cook. By the way, we're pretending we live in a reality where I can't post anything I want to their house. No, that's tricky. Not if I say, I just eat something out of your fridge and they go, our fridge is broken. We have no other food. If they would prefer I sat there and ate nothing. Yeah.

Or prefer I make myself sick. I do think. Versus order something to the house. I guess I don't even want to be friends with the person, even if they're my hero. But I found out that was who Letterman was. I actually don't want to be friends with him. That's cool. I think you would still, knowing you. I think you would still want his approval pretty bad. But listen, I think that your speech was good.

Oh, which one? I am so sorry. Oh, right, right, right. I see how much work you've put into this. You've put so much work in. It looks so good. I'm sorry I'm in a tank top. Make sure you say it looks so good. It looks so... Oh, I said that. I said I would love to eat this. This is some of my favorite food. I just happen to be allergic to garlic. Just allergic. I can't eat anything. And in retrospect, they should not be wearing a tank top to your party. Yeah, that's what you should also add. Okay. Okay.

All right. Wow. What would be a fun thought experiment for me would be like, what could someone arrive and do at my house that would offend me? And they would just have to, like, I don't care what the clothes are, but if they were like completely booger stained. Ew.

Like they would, that would be the only thing is I would want that there'd be some bar of cleanliness. Oh, okay. You know, like if they came in and they just had food spilled all over the front. But not if it's Aaron. Well, he doesn't have any. I mean, if he's. Well, you're right. Yeah. He could poop at the table and I wouldn't care. Okay. Well, we got to the bottom of that. I,

I think if you came to my house for dinner, I spent 18 hours cooking and you didn't eat. And then you would say your speech and I would get it, but I would still be sad. Right. Now, I hate to flip the tables on you. Yeah. Yeah.

But we've known each other for quite a long time. Yeah. We're very good friends. If I came to your house and you'd cooked everything I can't eat, that's on you. Actually, I'm mad at you. I'd be like, how inconsiderate. Why did you fucking invite me over? You know I can't eat any of this. But you don't.

This is like you invite me over, the only thing to drink is fucking alcohol. Like you just wouldn't do that. The only thing for dinner is cocaine. Listen, I would never do that, but you can't have it both ways. You can't be mad at me for cooking for a bunch of people and not including you and then also reverse, not expect to- If you're cooking for a bunch of people, great.

If you invite me over for dinner and you make garlic bread and pasta, then you really don't give a shit about me. Of course. Yeah. Yeah, I know. I would never do that. Or if you invited me over for a fish fry. I mean, man, this is a real fuck you to me. Well, maybe you'd like it. Okay, well, there's some potential problems coming our way, but hopefully we'll be able to avoid them. Oh, God.

Anyway, I'm surprised you weren't gonna try the fish. No, 'cause I've done that a million times to make a million people happy. You know, I dated Bri for nine years. I'd go up to the Puget Sound, the dad's cooking, he's catching salmon, it's an hour old, it's cooked the perfect way and everyone's like, "If you're ever gonna love fish, this is the time." I'm like, "Okay, I'll try it again to make everyone happy." And at a certain age, I'm like, "I gotta stop."

making other people happy to try this fish. I don't like it and it's okay and I don't drink. Like I think because I also have some experience. It's not. No, you wanna know the real stressful thing is that when you first get sober and you're going to people's houses and it's cocktail hour and it's a fucking bummer if one person's not participating in cocktail hour. It's a vibe. Everyone wants to do the same thing.

Nowadays different. So maybe you missed a good window to get sober. Nowadays people, if someone says like, I don't drink, there's no pushback. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. But certainly in my, you know, at 29 where I was moving through the world, it was a bummer for people to find out I wasn't going to be drinking with them. So it's like I had to learn to get over that. Yeah, yeah. And I think once you get over that, I think maybe it liberated me to go like, yeah, I don't.

It's okay how I am. It is okay how you are, but you do have to be considerate of other people. Of course. Yeah. I don't even think that's a measure of being considerate. Wait, what? Sorry, what? Like, I need you to eat fish, you know? Oh, right. I don't think that's being considerate. That's not. I mean more not eating the food that the person made. That food.

That feels a little more testy in the consideration. It feels like it's going to be a bummer for that person that they worked really hard to make something they thought I would like. Yeah. And that's a bummer, but we'll just have to deal with that because I can't eat something I'm allergic to. Yeah, I get it.

Ding, ding, ding. We need to start watching Justified. Do you want to do that together? Do you want to commit to that? Because everyone that I end up having these conversations about Walton Goggins with, which happens a lot for me because I talk about how much I like him, almost all of them go like, well, did you watch Justified? And I go, no. And they're like, oh, he's like insane. He's great. You've seen it? Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's maybe worth us time traveling watching that for Goggins. I could do that.

I would do that. Adam Scott was the person I was most recently. We were gushing over him in Fallout and his Uncle Baby Billy. Yeah. And then he was like, well, you've seen Justified. And then I felt like crazy that I hadn't. He said it in a way that was like, it was shameful if I hadn't seen it. Oh, my God. I'm claiming to be a Goggins fan. Okay, well. How about this? Okay, now I'm going to reverse the roles. Okay. Okay. Who is it?

I don't think it can be a guy 'cause it'll cloud it. So it's Jennifer Aniston.

She's like, hey, Monica. Hi. Hi, it's so nice to meet you. It's Jennifer. It's so nice to meet you. Jen Aniston. Yeah. I don't call myself that, but I know people call me that. So I just thought I would cut to, yeah. That's really funny. I don't know if this has gotten back to you at all, but I love the podcast. What? Are you serious? I mean, I get through Dax, but I'm really there for you. I think you're so wonderful. That is so flattering. Yeah, I listen to Race to 35. Oh, my goodness. I listen to Sync. Oh, wow.

What? Yeah, I look at your posts on Instagram. I bought sergeant clothes because you wear them sometimes. Sergeant. Argent. Argent. Yes, I'm sorry. I forgot. Get hanging up. Wait. Oh, no, no. Hold on. I'm not to my thrust of this call. I'm going to, I would love to have you over for dinner. Do you want to come up to the house and have dinner? I would love to. Great. I'm going to wear something really slinky. Okay. You want to wear something slinky?

Sure. Okay. You're right. It sounds like you're a party. Yeah. Sure. What are you wearing? Do I need to wear a... I'm going to wear a 90s.

What color? A negligee. What color? Is there like a color code? Yeah, I have a beautiful blue one. It's kind of see-through. Ooh, that sounds cute. Yeah. Is anyone else going to be there or just us? Maybe a couple other people will stop by. Okay, cool. Yeah. What are you going to wear? I don't know. Maybe it's a good excuse for me to go shopping. Oh, yeah. I know. I love that about you because I like to shop too. Yeah. I'll probably buy some things black. In fact, you've turned me on to quite a few brands. Argent. Yeah.

- The row, shockingly. I can't believe I didn't know about the row. - I can't believe, oh my God, I bet you look so great in the row. - Oh, yeah, it's a little baggy really 'cause kind of my calling card is what a great bod I've got. So it feels like kind of a waste. - You do have a great bod. - You too, I've noticed. I've been watching you on Instagram. - Oh my God. Do you have the jelly shoes?

Uh, yes. Well... Oh, my God. I got them because I was jealous of yours. Well, maybe you and I should both wear the jelly shoes, too, with our... You're right. This sounds so much more fun. Like, so I might be, like, I might have...

the moral high ground in court, but you're definitely gonna be more fun and you're gonna fight it back more. So you kind of won. I'm gonna give you a victory for this whole thing. Thanks, wow. Yeah. That really took a left curve ball. It did. It shocked me too. You wish you had said, sure, I'll dress up. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I got this great Bertone. I don't know. I don't know.

Hit me with a brain. Oh, Dolce. I have a great Dolce and Gabbana suit. Oh, that sounds really nice. Oh, yeah. It's been tailored just to me. Oh, I can't wait to see that. Yeah, my shoulders look great in it. Wait till you see. I can't wait to see that. Yeah, you can see the V in my back. Right. Well announced. I have some coaching to do. Yeah, you didn't start telling her that you're going to look better than her at this dinner. No, you can't do that. Oh, yeah, I'll come to you. I'm going to look way better than you at this dinner.

Oh, my God. Wow. Anyway. Okay. Okay. Great. Speaking of our good and bad qualities. Yeah. I texted your mom. Oh. And asked her your exact location and time of birth. I can guess what she said. But I need you to download something. Download something? An app. I can't. Please. It's for a fact.

I got to fucking get an app. Oh, no. See? I got to get an app to make you happy. Dax, come on. Okay, I'll do it. I'm doing it. It's for our job. Co-star. Co-star. Co-star astrology? Yeah, I've been wanting to do this for so long. This is playing with the dark arts to have this on my phone. No, I have it. Everything's great. I think, does this happen to you that I think my face is changing enough that my facial recognition is working less and less and less, and I'm wondering if it's time to re- Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, those are personalized. Okay, get started? Yeah, get started. Okay, what is your birth date? January 2. What time were you born, 12.58 a.m.? No, 1.10 a.m. 1.10, okay, I'll ask. Okay, 1.10 a.m. City, Ypsilanti? It says Wayne, Michigan. Wayne County. Oh, wow, there's a Wayne County in Georgia. Oh. There we go, Wayne County. It just says Wayne, Michigan. Okay, not Wayne County. Uh-uh.

All right, let me go back. Let me see here. I thought I was born in Ypsilanti. Good thing we're doing this. You were born at 33155 Annapolis Street, Wayne, Michigan. Okay. Well, I've lied on a lot of passport forms. Oh, my God. Our visa. Yeah. Yeah, I'm surprised. Well, maybe that's why I was getting so much heat. Oh, yeah. They did not want me in there. Full-grown adult since age six.

The responsible friend motivated by duty. Oh, it's already worked? Yeah. Okay. The whole point of this is I want to know your moon and rising. We know you're a Capricorn. It wants my phone number. No way. Oh, just put mine. The phone number should not affect the moon. Username. Let me just do my email. Six characters. Set a password. This is laborious. It's going to be really worth it because there's a lot we don't know about you.

We're going to find it all out. Enter the code we texted to you. That's you. Okay. Anytime I want to use this app, I'm going to have to call you. 225-450. 225-450. Okay.

What day at a glance? What do you want me to do now? Okay. By the way, I read in New York Times about this. There's certain apps that are tracking how fast you drive. Oh, my God. And selling that to insurance providers.

That has to be illegal. You would think, but it's not because you consent to this weird thing in the long thing. I didn't have any of those apps on there, but I might have to get rid of this app after this in case it tracks my speed because it would make my insurance really high. Good afternoon, 68, blah, blah, blah. So you're saying, oh, you. Okay, I see you. Thank you. Okay. Now at the top. True love is terrifying? No. That's not a great thing to read, right? Yeah.

Okay. Power in routine and sex and love. Pressure in spirituality. Ooh. Trouble with thinking and creativity. No. Okay, listen. Go to the top, tippy top. Tippy top. Okay. Where it says that's... Yeah, go to your chart. Chart. Okay, I'm at my chart. It'll say sun in Capricorn. Yep, sun in Capricorn. Now, what's your moon in? Moon in Virgo. What is that?

What does that mean? So does mine. Your moon is in Virgo? But your soon is in... Your soon is in... Virgo. I know. I...

It shouldn't have been that funny. It shouldn't have. Oh, my God. Your soon is in Virgo. Okay. I'm a double. I'm a double Virgo. My son and moon are in Virgo, but that's fascinating. So your moon is the planet or house or something that... Uh-oh. What?

That rules your emotions. Okay. The moon rules your emotions? The moon rules your emotions, moods, and feelings. Okay. And we have the same. Oh, that sounds potentially explosive because we'll both be having like bad days at the same time or feeling sensitive at the same time, right? Uh...

Not necessarily, but it's just... On the flip side, we'll both be very happy at the same time. So I guess the highs will be higher and the lows will be lower. I don't think it really works like that. It's just... It says, this is the likely sign you most think of yourself as since it reflects your personality when you're alone or deeply comfortable. Your moon is in Virgo, meaning your emotional self is analytical, responsible, and pacifying. A bundle of nerves you struggle with the need to be pure that may come out of self-sacrificing or nitpicky tendencies...

It's in your fifth house, meaning you find security and safety through romance, self-expression, creativity, and pleasure. Okay, now what's your ascendant? Libra. Wow, read what it says. Your ascendant is the mask you present to people. It can be seen in your personal style and how you come off to people when you first meet. Some say it becomes less relevant as you get older. It changes every two hours.

So if it doesn't make sense, reconfirm your birth time to be sure. Oh, because it's every two hours if you're a couple hours off. Oh, your ascendant is, oh, they're explaining the mechanics, the voodoo of it. Okay. Your ascendant is in Libra, meaning you come across as compromising, courteous, and fair-minded. Fair-minded.

I don't come across as compromising. Though sometimes passive aggressive. No, I'm pretty directly aggressive. I'm never passive aggressive. Okay, keep going. Okay. You seem inclined towards balance in all forms. Sorry. Well. I'm the least. No, this is not who you are. It's who you present as.

That's the whole point. It's like the mask you wear in the world. So it's not who you are. You do come across balanced, even though you're not. Balance in all forms. Aesthetic, romantic, and judgment. Yeah, I see a lot of that. Okay. Wow. I'm so glad we finally got. Answered all these riddles about me through this app. It's been haunting me. Yeah. I bet you. Yeah, I bet it's very comforting. Yeah.

I learned so much. How did that come up? We're talking about astrology because you guys are both Capricorns. Right. And then I was wondering and have been wondering for a long time what your moon and rising were. Do you think it's interesting that's like first you're a Capricorn. And then like, well, let's add a whole other thing now. Let's say you also have a moon.

Just really quick. Okay. So now we're going to give you this other thing. Okay. So that means you now have two of the 12 options. Well, in different, doing different things though. Like my Venus or my, what am I? Virgo. So Virgo is interacting differently with Capricorn than it's interacting with Virgo. Well, your emotional life. Like if your emotions were Capricorn, you'd be different. Yeah.

Does that make sense? Not totally. So when the sun's out, you're one way? No, no. I just don't know how emotions could be deducted from one of the other arenas. We have lots of parts of life that are... That are free of emotion? I don't think there's any... The way we... Yeah, lots of stuff. Yeah, okay. All right.

I don't know that much about it. My emotions are never offline to my knowledge is all I'm saying. Oh, I posted our video. Can you accept collab on that? Oh, sure, sure, sure. People are writing in. Oh, good. Did you see anything interesting? Well, somebody said since I like it so much, we should have an astrology expert on. Oh, yeah. I'm sure I could get through that. This has been fun. It's fun, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just like we wouldn't. It's tricky. Can we acknowledge it's a little bit tricky? Yeah, but.

'Cause we wouldn't have like, I wouldn't have divinist, is that what they're called? A water diviner on? Like I wouldn't have someone preaching pseudoscience that I just really don't think it's true. Right.

So this is an interesting zone because I don't think it's true, but I guess I would do it. Yeah, because it's interesting. It's fun. It's fun. Yeah, water divination is not that fun. Can we find one with a really fun personality? Yeah. I'm sure there's a lot. People who are into astrology seem to be really fun. They're probably in Aries. Okay. Yeah.

The name of the ferry going to Martha's Vineyard, is it Island Queen Ferry? No. Well. It says there are several ferries that go to Martha's Vineyard. What's the one that leaves out a woods hole? Ferry that leaves out a woods hole. Oh, Stream Ship Authority. There you go. I didn't really look at the name of the boat. Steam Ship, I'm sorry. Steam Ship Authority. Steam Ship Authority. Ferry from woods...

Wow. I know we can't. I can't talk. I just said Faraday from Woods. Steamship Authority is the ferry that runs year round from Woods Hole. It's such a fun ride. It's really beautiful. I bet. The enchantment starts on that ferry ride. Yeah, you feel like you're going to another world and you are. Yeah. Okay. Rihanna was paid six million to perform at the wedding. Okay. Rihanna.

Rihanna was paid six months. You're the one that taught me that. I know, I know. Rihanna was paid six months. For the Indian wedding? Yeah. There was such a fun video on her Instagram this week of her in ASAP Rocky, and she's like being so playful. And he is just standing there looking at her as she's dancing, and it's very funny. And he's acting over it? Yeah. No, I liked it for them. Yeah, sure, sure. It worked for them.

But there are these relationships that are, I'm not saying nurses are like that. I didn't even see the video. But there is some, some people like that, that kind of disapproval, like aloof. They like a partner and it's an aloof. Right. It's a trope, but it was a good video. Okay. I'll try to add it to the, do I have to download an app or? It's on CoStar.

Okay. You said we've been recording for six and a half years and friends for eight years. We've been friends for longer than eight years. Because Delta's nine and a half. And I started date night babysitting before she was born. About ten years. Ten years. I just want you to get that right. All right. We don't have time for this because we spent so much time on that hypothetical. Yeah.

But I listened to the Taylor Swift episode of Acquired in which they get into the business of her, but also the music industry business. And it's,

Fascinating. And you just yawned, and that's a ding-ding-ding because you yawned in this episode twice. Oh, right, and she was upset. Yeah, she didn't love that. They get in the music industry and how all of it works and streaming and, like, the amount that artists really make. It's crazy. How little? I was going to go back and—exactly. Yeah, you got billions of downloads before you're making millions of dollars. Oh, yeah.

And I was going to go back and listen and like write it up in this succinct way, but I didn't have time because it's long. Yeah. So I might still try to do that for another one of our fact checks. Yeah. So stay tuned. But also you should listen. It's really interesting. Did it talk about – because I think a lot of the time these platforms get a lot of hate for what they pay the artists. Yeah.

But it has been pointed out to me by someone who knows the business very well that that's a complaint with their label. It's a mix. It's so complicated. Yeah, but the label determines what they're going to accept for a stream.

They do because they own it. But... They could technically not go on the platform, but at this point, they're kind of forced to accept whatever that is. Radiohead was refusing to go on Spotify for a while. I wonder how it compares, though, to what... The tricky thing is, is it's very complicated because you would hear it on the radio for free.

And I don't think they made shit when it was on the radio. The royalty that a radio station played was non-consequential. Except the songwriter made a lot of money. It's broken up into two. From the radio? Yes. When we think radio's exposure is... To buy the CDs. Yes, that's my point. So there was a paradigm where you were happy to give it away for free on, i.e., the radio. Your royalty was bullshit. Because people would fall in love with the song, they'd go buy the CD, and then you'd make a lot of money on that. For the artist.

For the artist, yeah. Yeah, but for the songwriter, the radio was the way to make money, right?

And then now it's not. And often back then, the songwriter was not the singer. Yeah. Which then incentivized a lot of singers to write their own music so that they could get from both revenue streams. It's very complex. Yeah. But what's true, I was going to add is what's tricky is that by all accounts, Spotify, Pandora, Apple Music, that's now the radio.

But there's zero need now to buy the physical product because you can listen to something you want to hear immediately. So, yeah, created a very new and unique situation that has not probably been dealt with ideally. Yeah, it has not. They don't make anything. It's crazy. Yes. And so I don't have a position on this. I'm not pro-platform or anti-artists or any of that.

But I do think the many people who are calling for the artists to get paid more, they should also recognize that subscription is going to be $60 a month. We have to be required to pay. Exactly. Yeah. So I think there's a lot of cheerleaders for it that they think these streamers are keeping a bunch of money. It's only $12 a month for these fucking streamers. They're not going to be able to pay. You're listening to 1,000 songs a month.

And you're paying 12 and you're the one with the moral high ground. I think that's the part maybe I'm bristling at is there's a lot of criticism. But none of these people that are angry are going to pay $60 a month for these streaming services. Well, they might if that's the only option to have music. Most people can't afford to add $60 a month. If it was required, I don't think it would be $60 a month.

Well, if you wanted to pay these people the royalty that everyone wants, you just have to break it down into how many songs you're listening to a month. I'll go back. I'll get the stats and stuff. It was very interesting. But, like, Taylor makes a couple million dollars.

Taylor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I know. They don't make money out of streaming. They're only building popularity so they can go on tour and make their money on tour and merchandise. And a lot of people that, like, you know, Megan is like, I have kids. I haven't been on tour in seven years. She can't make any money. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. I do think, though, that...

people have this idea that these streamers are making a ton of money at the expense of the artists. And I'm just saying, none of these companies are even profitable. Spotify had their first profitable quarter recently. Like that's crazy. So for it to be $12.99 a month, there's no profit. So I'm just pointing out that if people want that, that's cool. I'm happy to pay that, but I have a lot of money. Maybe it'll drive everyone back to the radio.

Maybe. And I got to wait like an hour to hear my new favorite song. You want to hear my new favorite song? Sure. Okay. Hannah, she's a great source of fun new music. She, of course, is a musician herself, and she has her ear to the street. This is, God, my eyes are bad. Remy Wolfe. It's called Cinderella, and it is so fun. Okay, cool. Hello. Hello.

I was driving the motorhome by myself through the desert with this song cranked. Oh, wow.

It's a jam, right? That's great. Yeah. I have a new song, too. Oh, play it. Everyone knows it by now. It's very popular. Oh, is that a bummer? Well, no. Okay. I'm happy for her. But I'll do this one. I mean, I like so many songs on this. The whole album is so good. Very 80s vibe.

Do you know it, Rob? Yeah, I don't know it.

That's a complicated song for me as a listener. Why? Because she's unhappy with the arrangement. And also she's saying like eating me out in the front seat of the car. I'm like, that sounds great. And also banging me on the couch. I'm like, that sounds great. But she's unhappy with that. So it's really conflicting emotions, you know?

Those things sound fun. That's why it's deep. Yeah, they sound really fun, those things. But then they're not fun for her. Well, it's complicated. It is. Life is complicated. And it's, what was the word?

Prosaic. No. Well, that's a great word. No, she said it's casual. It's casual. Casual, yeah. It's the same songwriter, producer that does all of Olivia Rodrigo. Yeah, I know. I've done a deep dive. She's very popular now. Her name's Chapel Roan. Everyone knows her. We're a mess for some reason. But the whole album's so good, and it's very hot right now. It reminds me of PJ Sons.

Harvey? Yeah, PJ Harvey. There's kind of a PJ Harvey. You might like PJ Harvey if you're on this. I like Chapel. Oh, okay. She's at the Greek soon, PJ Harvey. Oh, she is. Yeah. Eat me out in the front seat of the car. That sounds like a good time. Yeah. But it's not working out for us, so it sounds pretty bad. All right. Okay, bye. I love you. Bye. Bye. Bye.

you