Bombshell Diddy Charges, and "Dating Game Killer," with Matt Murphy, Plus Megyn on Tucker, Shawn Ryan, All-In | Ep. 891
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Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Today we have a special episode on true crime, past and present. You heard about the Diddy indictment?

There's breaking news in the Brian Kohlberger case. And we actually have some details on what's going to happen with Trump's would-be assassin as well. And we've got the perfect guest to cover it all. Matt Murphy is a former senior deputy district attorney in California and current ABC News legal analyst. And he is the author of a brand new book that you're going to want to read today.

It's called fellow true crime junkies, the book of murder, a prosecutor's journey through love and death.

murder. Do you ever watch Shetland? Shetland's such a good crime show. It's this UK crime drama, and that's how they say the word murder. That's all I could think of, the book of murder by Matt Murphy. And this is a guy who knows of what he writes because he put the worst prisoners in jail for his entire career. The book is out right now. It just hit, and it is a fascinating read.

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It's promo code Megan and hometitlelock.com or just by using the link below. Matt, welcome back to the show. Thank you so much. Yeah. I mean, congrats. You came back on during our fraud week and walked us through one of your big cases. And now you're out with this book and it's a great reason to talk about what's in there and some of these other cases. So let me just hit you up on the ones that are in the news first, then we'll get to the book.

Um, what do you think is going to happen now with this would be Trump assassin? Because there's a bit of a turf war starting to unfold between Florida and the feds where Ron DeSantis says he's going to get to the bottom of how the security lapse occurred. And yet the feds say it's our investigation and the FBI will run point on it. We had Eric Prince suggesting DeSantis should not turn over.

This shooter to the feds, he should keep him in Florida to make sure he doesn't suddenly have an Epstein like ending. So how do you see that playing out?

Well, I've actually been in one of these before, one of these turf battles, and it's interesting. I think that the way this will shake out is that this is known as dual jurisdiction. So both the state has jurisdiction over this and the feds have jurisdiction over this. So it's like the old expression, what is it? Possession is nine tenths of the law. Florida, I think, has the body right now. They've got they've got the would be shooter. So it's going to be really interesting.

One of the things that I think they're going to hesitate about is that right now the feds have only essentially brought up gun charges. They obliterated serial number and a felon in possession of a firearm. That doesn't, you know, a lot of confidence in where this case is probably merited to go, and that is attempted murder. Now, attempted murder is a very interesting concept in a case like this because it requires a direct but ineffectual step

towards the completion of the act. So the intended act beyond mere preparation. So it's actually, this is almost a law school hypo. When you got somebody who intends to kill somebody, you know, forget presidential candidates, just any other human being who takes, who prepares for it and then takes direct but ineffectual steps beyond mere preparation. Is that satisfied here? I think a lot of people would say it is. Um,

But then at the same time, you know, attempted murders are also historically difficult to prove. So this is going to be really interesting to see the way this shakes out. Worst case scenario, I think. I mean, could there be a defense of like, I was just sitting on the golf course. What do you mean? I was going to shoot birds.

I mean, we've seen so many crazy things in court. So who knows what they're going to come up with? But yeah, something like that. What I think is really interesting about this and just as everybody has been sort of looking at this case, the first thing every prosecutor is going to look at is, is this a John Hinckley type situation? You're going to look at the mental health.

or the mental stability of the would-be shooter. That's the first thing that, whether you're a federal prosecutor or a state prosecutor, is there going to be some sort of insanity defense. And based on everything I've read so far, that's a non-starter. This guy's functional. He might be wacky, but there's a huge difference between being...

you know, a loon and being legally crazy under what is known as the McNaughton rule, which means you do not recognize the nature and quality of your acts. So this guy, an insanity defense isn't going to play. The next thing, and I guarantee they are furiously doing this behind the scenes, both the state guys

and the federal guys, everybody's looking for, essentially there's two types of assistance in cases like this. There's assistance before, which makes somebody a principal to the crime or a co-conspirator. And there, I guarantee they're looking at every machine he's got, every phone, every computer, trying to track down if there's any accomplices in a conspiracy type context. And then there's help after the crime or accessory after the fact. That's anybody who attempts to destroy evidence or hide things.

And I mean, the weight of the world is going to come down on on this investigation, be it state or federal. And anybody involved is going to be in a whole lot of trouble. But this also could be a guy who acted alone. This isn't another thing is that just drives me crazy as long as anybody else has been in law enforcement or the military is this gun keeps being described.

The rifle he had is an AK-47 style rifle, and it's not. This is an SKS. It's a totally different kind of gun. They fired the same ammunition, but it's a cheap, readily available rifle that also everybody should be aware of. He was not entitled to have. He was a convicted felon, so nobody can legally sell him that firearm. So this is going to be interesting to see where it goes.

Oh, so those people could potentially be in trouble, whoever sold it to him. Could he argue, Matt, I wasn't going to kill anybody. This isn't like Butler, where the shooter fired shots and took a man's life and hit Trump. Could he argue, I wanted him to listen to me about Ukraine. My plan was to get him...

you know, to a point where he was scared and just to hear me out. Now I realize he had a GoPro and he had, they said, they call it ceramics in his backpack, which my understanding is, I just learned yesterday is some sort of like defense mechanism. It's like to help him be bulletproof if he took fire, but that shows only that he was worried about somebody shooting him. Not that he was necessarily going to shoot someone. Um,

So couldn't a clever defense attorney potentially get him off on an argument like that since he didn't actually pull a trigger? I think you hit the nail on the head. I think that we're going to see something almost exactly like that. And also, that's another thing that drives everybody crazy that's mirroring it. They keep calling it ceramic tiles. Ceramic tiles are what you have in your house or in your kitchen. Yes. These are called ceramic plates. That's right.

And that is a that that defeats high caliber ammunition. So our soldiers in the military wear ceramic plates and certain law enforcement wear ceramic plates as well. So it's not tiles, it's ceramic plates, everybody. So that's a that that also shows preparation. And you're right. That shows that he's preparing to engage in a gun battle where, you know, you can wear soft armor is what it's called that will defeat handguns.

But plates are for rifles like those carried by the Secret Service. So this was there's at least initially here. And this is all based on what's just come public. But this is a appears to be a very planned out.

And you're right. We are at some point we're going to hear some defense lawyer, whether it's in state court or whether it's in federal court, coming out and saying he just wanted his attention or, you know, he didn't really want to do it, blah, blah, blah. But I think based on the evidence we have so far, they this was a seven point six two magazine with with live ammunition in it. So good luck with that one, especially with a Florida jury. I don't see that finding.

his writings, emails, diaries, and so on showing intent. We've seen intent even in his own self-published book that he wanted Trump to be assassinated. But so we'll see, there'll be more of it. Okay. Let's shift gears again. The name of Matt's book is the book of murder. It's not about these cases, but the reason Matt can speak so intelligently about these cases is he's a lifelong prosecutor in orange County. He did dozens of felony criminal prosecutions in one year. Uh,

Never mind all the lifetime that he's devoted to it. Some of the worst serial killers on earth put behind bars thanks to Matt. And he talks about it in the book of murder. Let's get to P. Diddy because this news hit and this is big. So he finally did get arrested. He's in federal custody, charged with

racketeering conspiracy, multiple acts of kidnapping, arson, bribery, tampering, forced labor, prostitution, transportation, and inducement of travel for purposes of prostitution and other illegal sexual activities, multiple offenses, including possession with intent to distribute

distribution of narcotics, controlled substances, including cocaine, oxycodone, and others. Sex trafficking by force is the second count and transportation to engage in prostitution. The allegations are deeply disturbing. Talking about how he used to have something called, well, not used to, but he has been hosting something called freak-offs.

where they said he used his business, his enterprise to intimidate, threaten and lure female victims into his orbit under the pretense of a romantic relationship. It oftentimes

He then used force, threats of force and coercion to cause victims to engage in extended sex acts with male commercial sex workers referred to as freak offs. These were elaborate and produced sex performances that Combs arranged, directed, masturbated during and often electronically recorded. He kept the videos he filmed of the victims engaging in these sex acts.

And he says, uh, law enforcement, this says the law enforcement seized various freak off supplies, including narcotics, 1000 bottles of baby oil and lubricant. And then among other things, he hit, kicked through objects at dragged victims at times by their hair, uh, and threatened them to ensure continued obedience and silence.

among other things, he engaged in abuse of people who crossed him or, or said they would speak out, including kidnapping and arson. I mean, that's one humdinger of an indictment, Matt. It reads like a novel by itself. Um, uh,

This is going to be a fascinating case to watch for a variety of reasons. But we're talking about federal sentencing guidelines. So what that means is even the kind of the throwaway counts where you're talking about the narcotics with firearms, that alone, if nothing else, winds up a conviction. That alone carries such incredible potential consequences.

federal sentences. Just being possession of Schedule I narcotics with the intent to distribute along with firearms by itself, he could spend decades in prison for that alone. I think that what's different on this case also, Megan, is that we've read about these civil cases. And of course, he was charged with a shooting back in the day.

This is he's been charged under what's called the Mann Act, or that's that's essentially sex trafficking. But also there appear to be RICO allegations in here, which is a criminal enterprise. And when you're talking about criminal enterprises, what the feds love to do and what every prosecutor loves to do really is you you look for people who are have criminal jeopardy in the complaint. In other words, they're part of the enterprise transporting these women or distributing narcotics, whatever it may be.

And they are now in legal jeopardy. And you go to their lawyer and say, hey, do they want to be a witness or do they want to be a defendant in this thing? So I think that what we can expect is we're going to see confidants and people that are a part of this enterprise.

turning evidence against Diddy. I think that's what we can see. And I mean, I shouldn't call him Diddy, Mr. Combs. But he is, he's in a lot of trouble here. And I'll tell you another thing, the feds don't like to, they don't like to take a lot of risk. And when you're talking about that word video, you know, that's one of the things about sex offenders that I

It's always mind boggling, but they love to record it. And it is, you know, when they did the, when they served the search warrant in his home in Los Angeles, remember that? And the Bearcat trucks went in and they were seen, they were seen leaving with computers and everybody in law enforcement at that point saw those videos and said, they're going to do a complete forensic workup. And the FBI is actually the best in the world at getting into electronic devices and figuring out how to get past.

know, passwords and all that sort of thing. And, um, the, the timing of this is interesting. I think that this was, it appears to be a very methodical, careful investigation. And this indictment is just mind blowing. Uh, one quick question about the number of celebrities in his orbit, because he was known is known for these massive parties, like days long,

There, this video, when he first got his house searched, recirculated as if he were threatening the celebrities, like I'm going to spill the tea on all of you. It turned out to be, um, the invite list, I think for his 50th birthday party, but we recued it up just to give you a feel for this guy's friend group. Okay. Watch a bit of this.

Okay. So you're the prosecutor in this case, let's say.

And you know, those are the circles this guy runs in. Those are the attendees at his 50th birthday party.

And some of those people almost certainly knew about some of this stuff, his penchant for drugging women, for hurting women, abusing them and so on these so-called freak offs. And how does that dynamic of these very powerful, well-known celebrities with lots of money, which frankly is probably how did he stayed out of law enforcement's crosshairs for this long? How does that play into the, how you view this case?

Well, this is going to be obviously a hugely sensational trial with these charges. This is not the type of thing that is going to plead either. This is going to trial. I can virtually guarantee it. And then you start thinking about the witness list. Now, from their perspective, we kind of saw a little bit of this with the Jeffrey Epstein case. Right. There was he got convicted in Florida and he had all kinds of people in his orbit for a while. And he's taking the jet, putting people on his plane and all that stuff.

Almost all of them stopped contact with him after he was convicted in Florida. But then he got a whole new group of people, including a lot of socialites here in New York City, that didn't seem to mind it.

this sex conviction. So we're going to see something similar here where I think we're going to see a lot of people trying to distance themselves from him. Now, what is fascinating here is somebody leaked that hotel video from 2016 with his girlfriend, Cassie. And we've all seen that by now. And I think that we all kind of, you know, you talk about a fall from grace, right?

You know, but we've seen this before when famous people get in trouble like Bill Cosby or OJ Simpson. And you just we have this public persona, this public image that we have a hard time wrapping our head around. Then we saw that video and that video was telling us this is him abusing his now ex-girlfriend. It's disturbing to watch.

She is 100% expected to be a witness against him. Keep going, Matt. Yeah. I mean, we think we know somebody's public persona, right? And it's really hard to wrap our head around it. And then you see in that video, he's in a towel and he's beating her and kicking her as she's trying to get out of a hotel room. And he's kicking her on the ground. And it's like, ooh.

That's highly corroborative. Now, a thing that is disturbing me as an L.A. resident is a lot of this stuff happened in the city of Los Angeles. And we have a very progressive DA named George Gascon, who seems to be only interested in prosecuting police officers. There's a permissive atmosphere regarding violent crime in the city of Los Angeles right now. And a lot of this went down in L.A. Where was the L.A. DA in this?

You know, again, we have the feds coming in to do this and there are certain crimes in this indictment that can only be federal crimes. But one of them is an arson that took place in Los Angeles County. And this is, this is kind of what happens when you have lack lacks law enforcement. Um, like we have under DA George Gascon in Los Angeles, there's, he's up for election coming up. And any of your listeners who live in Los Angeles County, if you're concerned about things like abuse against women or abuse against children or sex trafficking, um,

You take a hard look at that election and decide how you're going to vote because George Gascon and the DA's office should have been all over this and they had nothing to do with this investigation. And it's disturbing to me.

They're disgraced. They're humiliated. The notion, though, that you can have these two faces, you know, your public face, which is this great guy who's so beloved by everyone and brings us this amazing product in music, but behind the scenes could be potentially a devil, is disturbing to most people. You know, we kind of bank on that not being at least a common thing. But that

describes so many of the characters in your book, Real Life People. It's called The Book of Murder. It's by Matt Murphy. You can get it now. And that brings me to this guy who, it's amazing because when I listened to the book,

Like every dateline I've ever listened to, every 2020 I've ever listened to, Matt Murphy was the prosecutor in half of these cases. You'll know a lot of these cases. You're like, oh my God, this guy was that prosecutor. So many of us know about this particular case. It's called the dating game guy or murder. He didn't murder somebody on the dating game. But here is a man named Rodney Alcala on the dating game, 1979. It's a little long. Watch the clip. Seems like a great guy.

Let's watch. Well, let's see. Bachelor number one is a successful photographer who got his start when his father found him in the dark room at the age of 13, fully developed. Between takes, he might find him skydiving or motorcycling. Please welcome Rodney Alcalá. Rod, welcome. Hello.

Bachelor number one. Yes? What's your best time? The best time is at night. Nighttime. Why do you say that? Because that's the only time there is. The only time? What's wrong with morning, afternoon? Well, they're okay, but nighttime is when it really gets good. Then you're really ready. Bachelor number one. I am serving you for dinner.

What are you called and what do you look like? I'm called the banana and I look really good. Can you be a little more descriptive? Peel me. Well, I like bananas, so I'll take one. Number one. That's your number one. Say hello to Rodney Alcala. Rodney Garza.

Congratulations, Rod. You did it with a one answer. Unbelievable. Matt Murphy, you take it from there. Well, it's fascinating, right? So that's a woman named Cheryl Bradshaw. And quick sort of coincidence.

Today, I think they're issuing the first trailers for a movie that Anna Kendrick did. It's her directorial debut, and she starred in it as well, called Woman of the Hour. And it's about Rodney Alcala. Now, what's fascinating about Alcala, number one, you see there the charm. In that clip that we just watched, Rodney Alcala is in the middle of a murder spree that probably took about 100 lives.

And when we're talking about, you know, we've got an election coming up. Right. And my book is not political at all. But when you talk about Rodney Alcala, Rodney Alcala received a life sentence in the state of California in in the 1970s. He kidnapped and raped an eight year old girl named Tali Shapiro in 1968. He fled to New York. He got away from that.

She miraculously lived after being in a coma for 32 days. They extradited him back to California. He received a life sentence and he was paroled in 34 months. So he, after his parole, he went on to murder. 11 years before that dating game clip. Yeah.

He had been convicted of murdering a child. No, of kidnapping an eight-year-old off the street and raping her. Kidnapping, okay. Kidnapping, right. She lived, but she was in a coma for 32 days. A fail by the dating game producers, just FYI, but keep going. Right.

Right. Yeah. And they were actually very cooperative. It's Chuck Farris Productions. They were cooperative with law enforcement, I should say. I don't know if any of them are even still alive. But so that guy gets paroled 34 months for that crime with that little girl. He had a parole violation when they caught him smoking marijuana with a 13-year-old on the cliffs in Huntington Beach, paroled again.

And then he was permitted to drive across country. And the lead detective, Craig Robeson, who's now a Supreme Court judge, one of the smartest guys I know, estimates that he killed about 100 people. So that clip that we just watched, he's in the middle of a murder spree, finally murdering a 12-year-old girl named Robin Samson in Huntington Beach. The case went up twice. He was convicted, sentenced to death in California. Rose Byrd, who is the old presiding justice of the California Supreme Court, reversed that case, came down. He was retried, went up.

Through the Ninth Circuit, they reversed it again, and then it wound up on my desk with just the SAMHSA murder. And then we started, no sooner was the ink dry on the return on a remittitor, we started getting DNA hits from cold cases in Los Angeles County. And we went up, we prosecuted five here. There's one in Wyoming who's cleared to murder in Marin. He's a suspect in two more in San Diego, and at least five that we know of for sure

in the New York and Vermont areas. So this guy was an absolute monster, but you can see how charming he is, which is what is so fascinating about serial killers in general. This guy was a true blue psychopath. And I talk about this in the book, but one of the fascinating things, Megan, about serial killers that a lot of people don't understand is, and I certainly didn't when I rotated into Homicide,

I thought they were all like Buffalo Bill, you know, like the guy from the silence of the lamps where they're kind of a weird outcast driving a van and living in a creepy house. The truth is, um, there are a lot more like what we just saw. They're charming. They're handsome. Rodney Alcala had a genius level documented Mensa IQ. Um,

This guy was he had a house with people who loved him. He grew up with he never suffered any sort of abuse. He was a varsity letterman on his high school cross country team. And he was an absolute monster. And a lot of serial killers will target sex workers. You know, I think because of the nature of the profession, it's, you know, it's anonymous and they'll go into dark alleys and they they really put themselves in a position to vulnerability because the the profession, which is tragic.

But Rodney Alcala wasn't, he wasn't doing that. He's following women home from bars. So his victims included a pediatric cancer nurse, a computer programmer, a legal secretary, all of these women, they're the same people that we know and love in our own personal lives. And he never should have had the opportunity to do that. It's probably in my mind, it has to be one of the single biggest failures for the California board of prison terms. And we're, we're,

hard in that direction again in the state of California. And people really need to be aware of that.

Right. Releasing prisoners early is all the rage now, but it is disturbing. Yeah, what could go wrong? Because we really want to find like, oh, he was abused or, oh, you know, something tragic happened to him. He had some mental break and therefore I don't need to worry about the people in my life because none of them has that profile. But you're saying you never found the thing, like the snapped moment. This is just a sociopath. I don't know, a psychopath, maybe whatever from birth.

It's the guy standing in front of you in line at Starbucks and you'd never know. That's what real serial killers are. Another fascinating one is this, and he's accused, he's presumed innocent, just like everybody else we talked about today, I guess, but Rex Uriman, the accused Gilgo Beach killer. This guy ran an architect firm in Midtown Manhattan, not far from where I am right now. He had a family. They often have successful relationships. They have jobs. They're employed. And

a lot of them like Ted Bundy or Rodney Alcala are handsome and charming and have big, giant IQs. So it is really fascinating when you get down into the nitty gritty of those things. And another fascinating thing about serial killers, they all want to represent themselves. And Rodney Alcala represented himself in trial. He did, against you.

against me and my co-counsel, Gina Satriano from the Los Angeles DA's office, who I love to death. And we co-tried that, the LA and Orange County cases. And we'd have to go in and deal with them face to face. And I'll tell you what, it was absolutely fascinating because you hear about that and it's like, who would get into a guy's car like that?

And then you meet them and you see the charm and you see the intelligence and the humor, and you can really get a sense of how, um, how manipulative they can be. And I dealt with them face to face for six months, probably during the course of that trial. And it was fascinating. And ultimately brought justice to all those families that have been waiting for it for so long. Well, you write in the book about how he thought right up until your closing argument, which gave it to him, both barrels, that you liked him.

So we had to figure out a way once he went, it's called pro per once he went pro per and he fired his lawyers. Uh,

You know, there are so many technical elements to a capital case trial that you basically, I mean, it's really, there's two parts to it. Number one, your obligation is you have to treat them fairly and you have to ensure that their due process rights are scrupulously followed because you want to do that, especially when you're talking about the death penalty. Like the foremost job of a prosecutor is to be fair, even when you're dealing with a monster.

But the second part of that is we had to move the trial along and they can gum up the gears so much. So when he went pro per Gina, you know, was like, what do we do now? I don't want to talk to this guy. And we basically decided that I would be I would be the good guy. And every time we had to tell him no, which was all the time.

I would just, I just blame Gina. And, you know, so he would ask for 10 crazy things a day and he'd be like, Hey, Rod, sorry, man. I don't know. I would want it to, if I were you, I don't know what her problem is today. She said, nobody, um, that's it. And that's how we've moved the trial along. And, you know, you've got jurors, you've got family members, you have to have some level of efficiency and that's how we did it. And it was, so it was my job basically to, um,

you know, to talk to him and, uh, you know, to help him put on his trial and it kind of, you know, help him attach exhibits to attach evidence markers. And, you know, I basically, um, I mean, you, you,

You're almost strangely an assistant in helping them present their case to ensure that their constitutional rights are followed. But honestly, I thought it was fascinating. I thought it was. And let me share a quick story with you. This is a guy who murdered 100 people and he did it in the most sadistic, horrific ways you can imagine. And we had just sentenced the guy to death row. Who's a big, scary skinhead. And I didn't know how it worked in in California, at San Quentin.

And they don't give us any training on that, strangely. We get training in everything, but we don't get training on how San Quentin actually operates. And they have different yards. So there's an additional classification when somebody's sentenced to death and they go to San Quentin, they have different groups of prisoners and they classify them from the most dangerous to the least dangerous. So they're divided up into what are called yards. And I asked Rodney one day, I'm like,

Hey, Rod, what's the deal with guys like Billy Joe that are going up there that are you afraid of him? Are you afraid that guys like that are going to kill you? And he was almost offended. And he turned to me and he said, I'm on the weenie yard name they gave themselves for the lightweights that aren't a danger to staff or each other. Like Scott Peterson is on that. I got a few guys that I've sent up there on the quote unquote weenie yard. And he looked at me and he said, Matt, you know me. I'm not violent.

you know, fascinating, like little glimpse into the psyche of this guy. Like I'm not violent. I'm not dangerous to anybody. It's this is a guy who is smashing people's faces in with rocks and raping them repeatedly like this. He's as violent a human being as you get. He's monstrous, but in his own mind, he's not a danger. He's not violent. So it was, it was a fascinating experience. And then, yeah, I got to closing argument and then he realized I wasn't, I wasn't his buddy.

And I ripped them as hard as I think I've ever ripped a criminal defendant. Yeah. We actually, we have a little of that. Let's watch. Oh boy. He's got no soul or feelings. When you're talking about a guy like that, who is hunting through Southern California, looking for people to kill because he enjoys it. He gets off on the infliction of pain on other people. He put new carpeting in his car. Who does that? What was that about, that last piece?

So when they got to his house and served the search warrant, he had a it was almost like it was like a mobile crime scene. He had this new Datsun station wagon and he had just kidnapped and murdered Robin Samsoe probably two weeks before. And when we got there, all of the all of the the carpeting in the car had been torn out and replaced almost certainly because it was bloody. So there was new brand new carpeting. There's also binoculars everywhere.

The windows were heavily tinted before it was fashionable to do that. So it was basically there were maps. There was everything that you would expect a human predator would have in his vehicle if he was in the business of going out and finding people to get into his car so he could rape and murder them. It was absolutely fascinating. And then they also they found a receipt when they did that search warrant to a storage locker.

But it wasn't actually listed on the items they could take. So one of these police officers, in a very heads up way, saw the address of this storage locker receipt and copied it because they couldn't take the document. But it was in plain sight. So we copied it. They transported, I'll call it a Huntington PD. And his sister came down and he was caught on tape telling her, hey, you got to get my storage locker and empty it.

So it was a race and the police got there first. And inside a storage locker, they found a silk pouch, which was a trophy case, which had earrings and brooches and items of jewelry from...

I mean, probably two dozen different women and every one of them represented, um, some murder victim because a lot of times serial killers will collect trophies of their kills and they, it's, it's almost like they go to school for it. It's a fascinating thing. So, um, there was only one DNA hit and it came back to the legal secretary, Charlotte Lamb, who was brutally murdered in Santa Monica. Um,

during this spree, not long after what we just saw in the data game. But they also found boxes and boxes and boxes of photographs of young boys, young girls, young women in positions of vulnerability. And we identified maybe half of those over the course of investigations, hundreds and hundreds of photos of these unknown people

taken by Rodney Alcala. He was a graduate of UCLA film school. So he was a professional photographer and that was part of his roots. That was the way he would get them in. He would, he would say he was in a photo contest or your model, you're so beautiful. Let me take photos. And he would lure them into these positions of vulnerability. And there were just dozens and dozens and dozens of these people. And we never learned who they were. And some of them, we did connect to murders. The one in Wyoming,

wound up being, she was in his photos. And then we also found a picture of a girl on roller skates, girl, she was 16, named Lori Wurtz. And it came back, she was connected to the day that Robin Samso disappeared. And every time a case gets reversed, you can't use the evidence that the court found objectionable. So it came back on my desk when I got it for the third retrial

There was a lot of evidence that had been removed by the appellate courts and it's proper for them to do that. But we had to set the timing in this picture of this 16-year-old girl in a bikini on roller skates. We found a guy in the Navy that from the posts in the background, like the signposts, the shadows from the signposts, we were able to

to actually get, it's like a sundial. And this expert was able to give us the exact time that that photo was taken because the signs were still there 30 years later. They were still in the same cement. And with the almanac, they were able to tell us the exact time. And from that, we were able to figure out that

Alcala was right up Pacific Coast Highway in Huntington Beach right before Robin Samson got kidnapped. So I was ready to go before we started getting the DNA hits in LA. But when we got those, it changed the entire complexion of the case. And he was convicted. He was sentenced to death a third time. He died a lonely death in California prison.

Good. He suffered thanks to Matt and his partner. This story is laid out among many others in the book of murder by Matt Murphy, which you should get right now. It just hit. I've got to talk to you about dirty John.

That's another one. My fellow true crime readers and watchers, Dirty John, we all know this case, this scumbag who took advantage of all these well-meaning women who thought that they were his only true love. And all he was doing was fleecing them and stealing from them and using them. And then ultimately,

He was doing that to one woman who had two daughters and one daughter actively disliked him and really wanted nothing to do with him and tried to persuade the mom to Debbie to get him out of her life. And the other daughter was nicer and tried to kind of go along to get along, but wasn't a fan, but kind of like just the peacemaker of the family. Her name was Tara and it culminated in

as we've seen in the TV special, there was so many movies made about this case in this guy, ultimately attacking Tara. Once Debbie got smart and kicked him out of her life in a parking lot. And I'll tell you this chapter and then I'll let you take it. Tara, the nice one, the quiet one, the sweet one unleashed hell on this guy. They say be a difficult victim,

And it did not go Dirty John's way. She came on my show at NBC News, and here's a clip of her telling the story. First of all, have you ever taken self-defense or anything like that? No. So you were going all on instinct? Well, I watch a lot of, like, criminal mind shows. The Walking Dead. Unbelievable. Right?

We all think that will help us, but in the back of our minds, we tell ourselves, probably not. So scissor kicks and all that, like pedal kicks, that was all just instinct and criminal minds. Okay, so... Walking dead. Well, walking dead. Walking dead. So walking dead turned out to be critical towards saving Tara's life. Tell us how and why. Well, when I got the knife from him, I just, like, stabbed him. I didn't give it a second thought. I just thought it's, like...

like it's him or me um and then also the last one was to the head and i think that's like oh the zombie kill it's amazing how can how can you talk about it so matter-of-factly lots of therapy there you go unbelievable matt you prosecuted that case you handled that case but boy oh boy tara put an end to that guy

Yeah, isn't that incredible? You know, that was I had a couple of years left in homicide when that whole thing went down. So that was a homicide that took place in Newport Beach. And the way Orange County was set up is it's called vertical prosecution. So you when you rotate into sexual assault and then for me, then homicide.

You get assigned a certain patch. So Newport was one of my cities. So every murder or every homicide that happened was essentially my responsibility to ensure the investigation was complete. And I would review it for the filing of potential criminal charges. So we would roll out to these crime scenes at the very beginning, my investigator and I, and you work with the same detectives over and over again. And it really is, I think, a superior model for homicide prosecutors and detectives. So

That was in Newport. That was one of mine. And I got the call from the detectives on that. And, you know, the fundamental job of a prosecutor is to achieve justice. It's not to get convictions. It's to achieve justice. And sometimes that means your job is to clear somebody of any and all legal culpability for an event. And that one was one that quickly, I mean, you see...

Tara is just a lovely human being. She's since become a friend of mine. I mean, and so my job basically was to make sure that she was cleared of all criminal responsibility for that because this guy was trying to kill her. And inside his car, we found...

There was a it's basically a catch and kill kit. There was there was duct tape. There was a loaded firearm. There was handcuffs. He was going to kill her. And and after 17 years in homicide, I can tell you that story ends one way over and over again. And it ends up with the poor young woman in a ditch or down the side of some hillside. And that's how that story ends.

And she's coming home with her dog. She had an Australian shepherd named Cash. And John Meehan, who I think weighed 245 pounds, and it was athletic size too. This is a big athletic guy who was going to murder her. It's called filicide. He was going to murder her to get revenge against her mom for divorcing him. And the dog bit him and the fight was on. And it was, there was a picture taken, um,

Of Tara in a hospital bed because she was stabbed multiple times as well with that dog on her lap. Like she's on the bed and the dog is sort of on the foot of the bed.

I'm the photographer in the suspicious way. Like I will bite you too. If you come near my mom and, um, yeah, just, it was a hero dog and a hero would be victim who refused to be a victim. And that was one that, um, you know, it started with online dating and I, I have a whole section in that chapter on some of the things I learned about, um,

online dating gone wrong. And a lot of, I mean, tragically, a lot of the murder cases you deal with in homicide start out where people meet each other online. And what are some of the red flags, especially in that case, that guy was so bad. But he held himself out as an anesthesiologist. And I'll tell you what, for anybody who hasn't seen it, they're Connie Britton and Eric Bana.

I think it's lifetime. They put together a series. Eric Bana is absolutely brilliant. And for that, I think there's, when that case went down, I, it was too good a story not to share. So once we cleared it, um, I called my friend Chris Godford at the LA times and, um, and I'm like, dude, you gotta, you gotta share this with the world. And I thought he'd write an article about it and went up, put it together, dirty John. And I think it's got 30 million downloads. Um,

I had all the sliders I could eat. There's so many podcasts about it, a series, podcast series about it. It's a fascinating case. And the book, The Book of Murder by Matt Murphy, has got some life-saving tips in there from a guy who's been on the good end of dealing with criminality for his whole life. So there are many of us who are into true crime. I think because we have issues, we were scared. We grew up in the 70s, whatever. There was a lot of murder everywhere. We're trying to work something out.

Um, but so it's an interesting read and you find out a lot about human nature, but you can also learn some tips that might save you and be a difficult victim is one of them. So in these two cases that we've talked about in addition, I mean, if you want to hear the Ed Shin, uh, Ed Shin story, you got to go back to our fraud week episode from June, but in the two we just discussed, there's

one element of the crime solving that was important. And that is the guy's car. What's what was in the car? Like how did he lure people along? How did he use his vehicle? And that is also the case with Brian Kohlberger, the guy accused of murdering these four Idaho students. And

He was amazingly allowed to clean the car while the feds were allegedly watching him. I don't know whether they went and retrieved whatever he cleaned out of the car from the trash can. That's never been admitted if they did. And he just got a change of venue, Matt, for...

from Moscow, Idaho to Boise, I think maybe Boise. It looks like there's an administrative judge at a higher court who's now going to decide exactly where this case should land. And it looks like judge judge, the guy who that's his actual name,

who was overseeing this, is asking for this baton to be passed. He doesn't want to have to travel and try it someplace else. The defense sees this as a victory on at least two fronts. Number one, they don't want the case tried in the college town in which the murders were committed. And number two, they've been jumping up and down about genetic genealogy. And they appear to have some suspicion that the feds crossed some unlawful lines

in tracking down his name, that they had genetic DNA, that they had touch DNA on the knife sheath, and that they were able to trace that to his dad in the Poconos. And once you had his dad, you were very close to having him. And the belief may be that the feds somehow got to that name

got from the touch DNA to the name of the father by doing something they shouldn't have. And if that's true, the defense believes it might have grounds to blow up this entire case because everything thereafter, the cheek swab that actually did show it was Brian's DNA is fruit of the poisonous tree, as we learned about in law school. And you probably use that phrase a lot or had it used against you. So what do you make of these latest developments in Kohlberger?

So as far as the change of venue goes, this is capital case litigation for the Ninth Circuit. So this is the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeal. And it, you know, any death penalty case and they should they they undergo the highest level of scrutiny.

So when you have a small town like this, the defense's argument was, can we really get a fair trial here? It is very rare that you see a change of venue based on pretrial publicity because you can almost always find, it's called a venire. That's a jury pool where you can find 12 fair deliberating jurors. And I think they probably could have done that in the Moscow area as well. But this is sort of an abundance of caution where they don't want this to be an appellate issue.

And I think that for death penalty cases in general in the Western United States, it is it's a bifurcated system. OK, so there's there's a guilt phase and then there's a penalty phase with the same jury. And essentially what the judge's job is to make sure that the defendant gets a fair trial.

But really what they're all concerned about is they don't want anything to go up that's even close where the case can be reversed. Rodney Alcala is a perfect example of that because that poor family had to go through that three times and it destroyed them. So what the judge is thinking kind of behind the scenes is he doesn't want that case to get reversed. So the defense has an argument that, hey, maybe we should move this. That was a very conservative, careful decision that –

I think at the end of the day is not going to have a negative impact for the prosecution at all. And I think it will have a really positive effect for this case on appeal.

As far as that DNA argument goes, I think that's a loser for the defense. This is something that's been argued over and over again. You're talking about familial DNA. There were other things that essentially brought the focus of suspicion onto Koberger. There's video of his car. There's cell phone pings. There's plenty of information, but

As a general rule, DNA is not something that you can suppress when it's taken from the defendant. Okay, so if you find, if a search warrant is violated and you find a murder weapon in somebody's home, you can suppress that. But this is, there's a concept known as inevitable discovery.

And that exists in state law as well as federal. Yes, I argued this in my moot court competition back when I was just a WE law student. And we won. Actually, we lost in the finals, but I won a special award. Anyway, that was the whole thing. Inevitable discovery. So if they can show they would have found this guy anyway, then they can get it in. But so you're saying even if they detected Brian Kohlberger's dad...

by doing something untoward, by maybe accessing some database they shouldn't have, the feds and so on, that you still like the prosecution's chances because they were driving at Brian Kohlberger through more than just the DNA on the knife sheath. And he would have been inevitably discovered. Yes. And the remedy generally for DNA problems like this is you just retest the suspect.

You know, he can't change his DNA. His DNA doesn't change. So this is one of those things. And this is the cutting edge of DNA forensics, basically. It's called familial DNA. These are the cases that are getting made. Like one of mine, I prosecuted the Golden State Killer. I was the Orange County prosecutor, one of several prosecutors on that case. Every case you've ever heard of, Matt Murphy was the DA. I mean, that's just the bottom line.

Yeah. Keep going. The book of... Well, you talk about a monster. The Golden State Killer was one of the worst I've ever seen. Joseph D'Angelo, just a... The man was the devil. But that was a case that was made with familial DNA. And there are...

there's a bunch of others that didn't have a lot of media. You know, my Neil case out of Newport, which was a case from the early seventies was a five-year-old girl was kidnapped and murdered. There's, there's a whole rash of these things and they've been challenged and they have, uh,

repeatedly been shut down by the courts of appeal. And so, you know, the Koberger defense team, they're doing what they have to do. I have no criticism for them. That's their job is to ensure that their client gets fair trial and to present whatever issues they can. But they're pretty dramatic about a lot of things that are doing. And I can tell you right now, I have, that's a, that sounds good. Sounds good, especially to a lay audience that his DNA is that the DNA on knife shift

on that knife sheet is going to be admitted against Brian Klobuchar in that trial. Um, they're not going to be able to successfully suppress it and it will be affirmed on appeal if he's convicted. So, um, the reason they run the new judge is the old judge wasn't giving them all the discovery about that trail that they wanted. And so they're thinking, okay, we'll get a new judge now. Maybe we'll get what we need. But you're saying that they should, they should hold their horses. They should, their, their joy is, uh, a little premature.

Enjoy it while they got it. I mean, look, when I was trained, there was a guy named Chris Evans, who's now a Superior Court judge. And I love this guy. He was one of my mentors in the DA's office. But when I was a baby DA, and I'll never forget it, he came in and we were learning about providing discovery to the defense. And he said, look, this is really simple. Make sure they have everything, give them absolutely everything, and then just beat them with it.

OK, so, you know, the defenseman co-worker should be entitled to everything, you know, give them everything and then just beat them with it. You've got those cell phone pings are

incredibly damning against Brian Kovrigan. I've reviewed that data and any competent prosecutor in front of any fair jury, that is quite an argument. He turned his phone off in the direction of the murders. So he didn't just leave it at home. He took it with him, which is fascinating. I mean, allegedly, of course, he's presumed innocent. I would say that as an attorney. But look, the guy's a PhD student in criminology.

And he takes his cell phone with him. So he's pinging in the direction of the murders. And then he turned it off, which the prosecution is going to argue is what's known as consciousness of guilt. And then he's gone just enough time to have committed these horrific murders. And then he turns his phone back on before he comes back. And the defense is saying, oh, they can relay and all that. You hear that same defense in every case.

every murder case where cell phones are a part of the evidence. And the jury gets it. It's triangulation. It's not tough. The science isn't tough. They'll put up a map showing him pinging along transponders in the direction of the murder. They'll do the timing. They'll do the drives. They'll show the video of his car, because that is his car, that plus the DNA. And I'm sure they have additional things from his computers. But apparently he visited that house multiple times. He appears to have been

very interested in or perhaps obsessed about one of these young women or maybe more. And this is a, I think that he went in there, at least the prosecution will argue, he went in, he wasn't expecting that other poor young woman to be in bed with his intended victim. And who is it? Mike Tyson, the great philosopher said, "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." And that guy went in and everything went wrong.

And and he left and he left that sheath there. That clearly was not a part of the plan. And I think the evidence against him is extremely powerful. And it doesn't matter if it's a jury in Moscow that hears that or Boise or anywhere else in the state of Idaho. They're going to be able to find 12 fair people. They'll assess this. They'll follow the law. And look, I think that the evidence against Brian Kovrig is overwhelming personally.

We will be hopefully talking to you a lot as that trial gets started right now. It's slated for June of 2025. It's been delayed so long. I mean, I just can't imagine how much later they could push it. But listen, everybody's got to support Matt. The book is called The Book of Murder, A Prosecutor's Journey Through Love and

and Death by Matt Murphy. It's out this week. Matt, thank you. Matt's hosting a live, free virtual event on Thursday at 8 p.m. on CrimeCon's YouTube and Facebook channels. That's very cool. Again, live, free virtual event this Thursday, 8 p.m., CrimeCon's YouTube and Facebook channels with more stories from his book. Matt, all the best.

Thank you so much for having me, Megan. This is always fun. Good luck with it. All right. Thank you. Right back. Do you owe back taxes or have unfiled returns? Along with hiring tens of thousands of new agents and field officers, the IRS has been sending over 5 million pay up letters to those who have unfiled tax returns or balances owed.

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I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on Sirius XM. It's your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal, and cultural figures today. You can catch The Megan Kelly Show on Triumph, a Sirius XM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr. Laura, I'm back, Nancy Grace, Dave.

We'll be right back.

I wanted to take a few minutes to talk about

Very busy week last week. Maybe you noticed we were all over the country doing a bunch of different things and it was great. Had some amazing conversations with some really interesting guys, most of whom you know. I hope and I believe you remember Sean Ryan. What a guest and what a guy. He was on the show back in May. It was such a powerful interview. This is a special man.

And then he invited me to go on his show down in Nashville, Tennessee, which I did. And it was very cool. It was the longest interview I've ever given in my life for hours. But it didn't seem that long. Sean has a way of keeping it going and he's just so thoughtful. He's a great interviewer. And so we wanted to bring you a couple of highlights. What do you think the final nail in the coffin will be? If Trump wins again. That'll be the end.

Yes, because they'll do the same thing they did the first time. Everything will be negative. He will be the devil incarnate. They will find their oppositional media roots again, which they totally forgot during the Biden years. You had just mentioned that you were bullied as a little girl. Why were you bullied? Why? Why? That's an interesting question. I think it's because I had a...

fairly big, not huge, but fairly big personality. So I attracted attention, which is somewhat dangerous when you're young. Kind of always, it could be potentially dangerous, but you know, when you're young, most kids just want to fly under the radar, have friends. I wasn't trying to get attention. I just had a large personality. - What do you think the key to a successful marriage is? - I definitely think it's using your most generous lens on your partner.

Trying to interpret all behaviors through the lens of he loves me and I love him. That helps with so many things. And I also think it's important to say the thing that you don't want to say. I have every belief in God and in a higher power and in something more for us on the other side and on the last side, you know, before we got here. As I said, I just haven't figured out how I interact with it.

It was a great conversation. It was like therapy for me, frankly, but not traumatic. You know, like Sean knows just how far to push you without pushing you over the edge, or at least that's, that was my experience there. But like in that one question, you know, why were you bullied? Isn't that an interesting question?

that's how he is. He thinks of questions like that. And what a thoughtful, sweet guy loved my time down there. Um, then on Monday, uh, last week I was in Los Angeles to talk to the guys from the all in podcast, you know, our pal David Sachs, he's on the show all the time at their yearly all in summit conference. Now I love that they do this because they are actual tech gurus. These guys are billionaires. They're extremely successful.

And the only person who's been doing like the really successful tech conference is that villain, Kara Swisher, who is a leftist who hates everyone who's not as far left as she is. So they're giving her a run for her money. They're getting all the big names. Elon was there and I met him backstage more on that in a second. Um, so I love that they're doing it at all. And all the people there were these young, smart, successful tech guys and gals. The audience was really dynamic and

And, uh, I got to know the other co-hosts who I didn't know. I know David Sachs, of course, David Friedberg's been on the show once before. So as J Cal Jason Calcanis, who, well, you know, there was an incident when he came on, but I like him. And, uh, um, Chamath was there as well. And we all spoke to close out the first day of their conference right before Elon came on. Here's a look at that. And then what about Hillary versus Kamala? Oh God. Yeah.

Well, Hillary was smart. The problem for Kamala Harris is she's not smart. She's not a deep thinker. She's very surface level. Yeah, she's giggling just like that all the time. Megan, tell us how you feel. Really, be honest. And it's a cover. It's an obvious cover, right? It's like she gets to the point where she doesn't know what she's saying. Even she doesn't know what she's saying. And it's like, ah!

And so you feel uncomfortable watching her. And then she gave her first interview to CNN. And suddenly, if that's drunk Kamala, suddenly we're dealing with hungover Kamala. Like, my values haven't changed. Like, clearly somebody had told her, you cackle, we're out of here. Yeah. What did you think about her bringing her emotional support white guy?

Exactly. Her emotional support governor. He was her big white blankie. I mean, it made no sense. It seemed like a terrible strategic decision. Like, who's making the decision to do that? I agree. I objected to the whole thing. I think he was there for two purposes. One was, yes, in case she got in real trouble, he could step in. Yeah.

And the other was to suck up some of the airtime. So she had a couple of fewer questions to answer. We look at the five cases, you know, six months from now, a year from now. Let's assume all five of them go to trial. He's guilty of three so far. What do you mean he's guilty of three so far? He's been convicted of three. Sorry. What do you mean? No, he hasn't. I love this.

No, E.G. and Carol was guilty. That was not a conviction. That was a civil case. Well, yes, that's what I'm talking about. Okay, but there's a big difference. Still, he was guilty of that. So you've got to settle him. In the Trump organization, they're guilty there. Again, it was civil, liable, liable. Yes, of course. But these are the cases we're talking about. And in the third one... You know she's a lawyer, right? Yeah, of course. And in the third one...

I'm just talking about the five cases. Yes, some are civil, obviously, and some are not. Some are criminal. But if we look at all five cases... You said three convictions. Now you're walking it back. I'm not walking it back. There's three in which he was... You should walk it back. I'm so glad Megan is here to dispel this. Of the five, three of them, he's either guilty or... He got a bad result. Yeah, got a bad result. There are two more. If he is found guilty of those two more, Megan, and five of five, he had a bad result. Way to frame it. Yeah.

Will you chalk all five up in your mind to five different jurisdictions, five different prosecutors, five different juries and or judges all conspiring to get him? 100%. Okay. Yes. That's all I wanted to hear your answer to. Five of five, five different jurisdictions. You think it's all lawfare. I mean, E.G. Carroll, they changed the law so that she could bring a civil lawsuit against him. And she did. New York jury, New York went 87% for Joe Biden. That

that fix was in right from the start. The fraud trial that Letitia James brought against him has never been brought. There's no victims. The banks who were involved said, we didn't lose a penny. What are we doing here? We weren't damaged. Nobody was complaining except Tish James who ran for office saying, I will get him. Then you have Alvin Bragg who's a George Soros funded prosecutor who doesn't like to prosecute any crime in New York City where I lived for 17 years except if your name is Donald Trump. Let's go down to Georgia where Fannie Willis and Nathan Wade couldn't keep their libidos in check long enough to actually bring this case forward.

against Donald Trump. It's a repeat of what was happening in January 6th up in the case with Judge Chutkin, who loathes Trump and has sentenced almost every J6 defendant to way more jail time than their counterparts would get. Those are falling apart because of presidential immunity, which was handed down by the Supreme Court, who said you cannot bring a criminal case against a sitting president for any official act. Those cases have been gutted. Also, a Supreme Court ruling saying the same on January 6th defendants in general. And that leaves us with Florida and the documents.

And Trump has torn that apart because Jack Smith wasn't properly appointed and isn't the right counsel. But there are other issues. They haven't even gotten to presidential immunity there. And so that one's going nowhere as well. And by the way, they're going to peel it up to the 11th Circuit. She just threw it out. The 11th Circuit is conservative. And thank God, so is the current Supreme Court. They're not going to tolerate that nonsense. Let me ask you about...

I think, let me, I think J. Cal, I think J. Cal just lost his right to ever bring up lawfare again. Oh, we had fun. I, you know, I appreciated J. Cal bringing that up because obviously he knew I was a lawyer and he's not. So that was, I think that was him being generous to me. That was him being kind. I appreciated it. And I loved being out there and I met Elon Musk, who I've never met before. It was very cool. He is truly larger than life. He came backstage and it's like, oh my God, it's like the seas parting. You know, there's Elon.

And we had a very nice exchange. I said, I shook his hand and I said, thank you for saving free speech in America. And he said, same to you, which was very sweet. But man, he really has. He really has. Think about all the things we can talk about now in an honest way that we couldn't before he took over Twitter. Now X. I'm sincerely grateful to him. I'm sure you know why. I'm sure you can feel it too.

And then last Thursday, uh, we completed my nationwide tour in Kansas city, Missouri with my pal Tucker Carlson. He's got a live tour right now and asked me to join him in Kansas city. And I was happy to do it. I met so many great people. Oh my gosh. Normally, you know, you do the photo line and, um, sometimes they push you through those things so fast that it isn't fun for anybody. It's not fun for them.

But it was so fun. I loved the photo line. I love talking to Tucker. He is such an interesting interviewer. He goes to, you never know where he's going to go. And I think he thinks the chaos of the whole thing adds to it, which I think is true. It's, you know, we had thousands and thousands of people there.

It went over big and had a lot of viral clips that maybe you saw, but loved being together again. It was particularly fun to be sort of on the outside together. Here's a bit of that one. I come here and someone's like, are you going to ask her about Taylor Swift? I've got thoughts. Screw you, Taylor Swift. She turns around. Not only does she pick a side in a hotly contested presidential election, alienating at least half of her fan base, but

But she says the reason she's voting for Kamala Harris is because of Tim Walz's LGBTQ stance. Do you know what Tim Walz has done on the LGBTQ front? Tim Walz, let me tell you what's gonna happen, okay? Here's what's gonna happen. A little girl sitting in Wisconsin who's maybe on the spectrum, maybe has acne, maybe is a little heavyset,

maybe feels upset because the parents are getting divorced, something like that, is going to find herself down a rabbit hole on Reddit. And her parents aren't going to know because they're getting a divorce and they're not focused on her right now. And she's going to spend hour after hour on that thing. And Reddit's going to tell her she's actually a boy. And she's going to get sucked into this gender cult. And she's going to say, mom and dad, I want puberty blockers into cross-sex hormones, which will sterilize her and deprive her of all sexual pleasure for the rest of her life.

And they're going to say, no, you're a girl. And she's going to say, but I want top surgery, this benign thing, this double mastectomy where I'll have tubes coming out of me and I'll never breastfeed a child. I want that too because I'm a boy. And they're going to say no. And she's going to go to a judge in Minnesota. And because of Tim Walz, the court will take custody of her.

use the Medicaid funds in Minnesota to provide her all of those things, chop off her breasts, sterilize her with the puberty blockers and the cross-sex hormones, and when this girl inevitably comes to the conclusion that she didn't want any of this, that it only added to her problems, which were the divorce and the acne and the puberty and not any trans issue, who is she gonna go to then?

This is all because of Tim Walz. That's what Minnesota is doing right now to little girls and boys, taking custody away from the parents so that they can have these procedures without any loving parent there to help. And that's what Taylor Swift just endorsed for your children. So screw you, Taylor Swift. You're describing how rich Taylor Swift is. Why isn't she happy? Good question.

I mean, listen, there's, what is she, like 32? I don't know what she is. She's young. She's never had a relationship that works. She makes a lot of money off of writing about it. That could be part of the problem. Like, for the reasons you were just discussing, when you find true love, when you have somebody who loves you unconditionally, you know, warts and all,

that's everything. And she hasn't been able to find it. She's made a lot of money off of it. And I think she travels from city to city without the grounding that you have, that I have, that hopefully all of you have. And maybe she's feeling untethered. Maybe she's feeling empty and lost. And maybe she wants other people to make the similar decisions in life as she has. By the way, she's 34 years old.

And that whole thing is just so annoying. That still brings up something for me, just what Tim Walz is doing, what Minnesota is doing. And it's not just Minnesota. It's just dark, dark, dark, dark. Give me a break on your stupid joy message. You're not causing joy for the kids who are going to get cut up.

in Minnesota because of you. So God bless Tucker. He talks about everything. Had some interesting moments on Jeffrey Epstein and, um, just such a kind and generous man. Um, great to see him again. We've had a long history. We talked a little bit about that too.

And how we first kind of got to know each other and what our experience was a bit at, as he put it, that place we used to work. At every stop, folks mentioned the success of this show. And that is all thanks to you guys. I'm so grateful to you and my team is too.

got to see them out at the all in summit. We all, we all went a bunch of us, not all of us, but some of us went out there and it was so fun. We talked about how much the audience means not just to me, but to my producers too. They know you're out there. They know, like we all have an image of who we're writing for and producing for and anchoring for.

And to see you in person, like I got to at the Kansas city, Missouri event and at the all in event, um, that was really special. Gosh, I mentioned this the other day, but just to actually like touch hands with the folks who are listening and watching to hug some of the folks who are listening and watching was really gratifying. I feel the connection to you in the same way. I hope you feel it to me.

So thank you for letting us go on this ride and for being along with us while we all do it together. I think in some areas we're really making a difference, but the real purpose is just to stay informed, keep our senses of humor and yes, stay connected. So thanks for joining me today and every day and see you next time. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda and no fear.

Join me, Dr. Panico, with Cindy Lauper and chef Michelle Bernstein to talk about plaque psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis, the potential connection and risk of developing permanent joint damage.

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