Focus on Yourself: 3 Signs You’re Giving Too Much & What to Do About It Right Now
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Hey, it's friend male and welcome to the male Robin's podcast. I need to ask for some, when was the last time you said no without feeling guilty about IT or you or line in the sand, set a boundary and stuck to IT and didn't feel like you were let him someone down?

If that question makes you realize it's been way too long than you are in the right place today, because you and I are about to dive head first into the topic of boundaries, what they are, how to set them, how to stick to them, and most importantly, how to stop feeling guilty or selfish for needing them in the first place. Boundaries are the most effective way to take back your time and energy and protect your peace. And yet, for so many of us, it's one of the hardest things to do.

But by the end of this conversation, you're not only gonna know how to set them. You're gone to realize that any single time you feel overwhelmed or over extended, you don't need a bubble bath. You need Better boundaries.

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Hey, is your friend malam so excited that you are here today? IT is always an honor to spend time with you and to be together if you ran new. Welcome to the mill Robin's podcast family I wanted just take a quick moment before we jump into this amazing topic about boundaries and acknowledge you for taking time to listen to something that can truly help you create a Better life.

And I want to tell you, some one thing that will help you have a Better life is learning how to have Better boundaries. Look, i'm sure you've heard the word a thousand times, and i've even talked about boundaries before. I like to remind you that you can be a good person and have a kind heart and still say absolutely not.

Well, today, you and I are going to come a boundaries from a completely new angle, because doctor puja lux man is here in our boston podcast studios, and he says there are three surprising signs that he sees in her patients, day in and day out, that indicate no boundaries. And she's going to explain exactly what these three signs are, why you need boundaries, how your life is going to change, and, more important, how you can get started in creating them today. In fact, you and I are going to leave this conversation with a very simple exercise.

I love this thing because you're going to do IT as soon as you're done listening. And it's onna reveal all the moments in the coming week where you do not have a boundary in place, but you need one doctor. Puja lucky man is a board certified psychiatrist and the author of the best selling book, real self care.

She's a professor, psychiatry and George washington to university school of medicine. And one more thing, before we stepped into the studio, SHE said, male, after you introduced me, i'd like to be called puja, not doctor puja, not doctor j. ja. So puja, welcome to the malvin cast.

IT is such an honor .

to be here now. I am so thrilled that you're here, and I am very excited to talk you about your work and where I want to begin this. Could you tell the person that's listening what they can expect to change in their life or experience their life differently if they really take to heart everything that you're about to share?

For folks that are listening, I want you to know that it's possible to make a change and that feeling of selfishness or guilt that you get each time you set a boundary that doesn't need to control you, that that feeling actually is not the truth of who you are. And you're gonna some skills and tools to take a way to really understand how to feel like you have agency in your life.

What does agency mean?

So I think of agency as basically the ability to feel like you can solve problems in your life, even when there are extra nl constraints, even when your environment is stack against you, that you can take action and that that action will cause change. That's what agency is. And and I think that's power.

I have never heard anybody describe IT that way. I'm sitting with my mouth open for just a second because I hear the word agency a lot and i've never connected the dots between that word and power. But that is true because there are so many times in your life where you do feel like you're overwhelmed by everything and you have no power.

And I know we're going to dig deep into two words you talked about. You feel selfish or guilty yeah and I love that. I'd love that.

That's what you're going to experience, is access to this power on already already doctor lucky on is drop in, drop in the knowledge. So I saw this article that you where you said that I I want to get that the correct. You said that real self care is not about a bubble bath. Can you unpack that for us and talk about how the act of self care has now become a new form of us shaming ourselves?

So this came to me from my patience, really, the patient, that every patient, really, that comes in in the dark electron and stressed out and burned out a night, eating well and not sleeping well. And I feel like it's my fault, because I have the meditation up. I have the yoga membership.

I know i'm supposed to be doing these things, but I can't do IT. And I say to my patient like, look, this isn't your fault. This isn't about willows.

This isn't about being lazy, is actually much bigger than that. We live in a country that still doesn't have federally Mandated paid principle leave cause of american workers can't take a paid sick day. Half of american people are living in what's called childcare deserts.

The most recent statistic on childcare costs found that for americans with two kids, they are paying ten percent of their income for child here. So I mentioned all of these numbers. Not to be like doom, gloom, but more to say, wellness has given us methods and tools, but IT has not given us principles or perspective. So a juice clans is not going to fix all of those problems.

I love that. So you used two words, principles and perspectives. What is the deeper perspective about what self care is versus what the wellness industry is marketing to us? Because IT almost feels like, you know, when you mention juice plans, and I know when I go online, you are bombarded with people skin here routines and the bubble best and the things that they are doing at night to take care of themselves.

And it's almost as if the this industry or the skin care industry has hijacked the word self care. But when you think about IT from the lens of what is self care mean to you? So it's .

actually really interesting. When I was working on the book, I did a little research on the roots of the words self care. It's unna because there's two parallel lines. Es, that came out in like the one thousand and fifty thousand hundred sixty. One is the social justice movement audrea.

D self care is self preservation, but the other actually is like, so in the fifties and sixties, psychiatrists were using the word software to describe the choices that patients who are locked psychiatric units could make. So like, what do I want to wear today? What am I going to eat for lunch?

What exercise i'm going to do again, coming back to agency, even in the context of having so many of your choices made for you, you can still find small ways. So obviously now in twenty twenty four self here, that the term has gone wild ly off the rails. But let me give you kind of an example.

So imagine that you are going to yoga class and you spend most of the time on the man kind of feeling guilty because, oh, you maybe your mom, you should have maybe spend this hour helping your kid with his homework. You need to make cupcakes for school so you're there in the yoga, but your mind is feeling all the skills t in this mental load and some of that you are looking against person next to you who can hold a head stand and like you can even do propose. So you're comparing yourself, you're beating yourself up.

You also don't really know why you're even at yog like you're there because like metal to go you, but you haven't really internalized like what does you could do for you. And so essentially you've given away your power. So that's one person.

But then imagine a completely different scenario where you have a hard conversation with your partner and you say, hey, look, you know, I think both of us do a lot Better when we each have a little bit alone time over the weekend. So let's i'm going go to yoga on saturday and you can go for a run on sunday because we both know where Better parents were, Better partners. When we have that time, you have set boundaries, you are on the map and you're not beating yourself.

You are actually connected to yourself in a nice way and then you've actually named for yourself. What is IT about yoga? Like why does ga help me? Maybe for you, it's the physically, you know, you feel strong, you're in your body.

Maybe for somebody else is actually community. You like being in that room with other people who have same passion as you. So it's different. You have to name your own value. And through that you have actually, we claimed your agency from this society, which is telling us, no or no, don't rest, don't doing thing for yourself instead, just keep producing, just do more, be more the whole kind of fees here is that real soft care is actually is not about the thing, is about all of the work you do inside before you do the thing. So your yoga class is only as powerful as the boundaries that you've set beforehand.

There is so much to impact. I want na take a gigantic highlighter and I want to make sure, as you're listening, that you heard what doctor who judge said, SHE said, it's not a good thing. It's about the reason why you are doing the thing in the first place.

And if I get back to two of the words that you said earlier, principles and perspective, that's how you access said. I'm also in that example, which I found crazy. I was thinking, how are you in my head while i'm doing yoga? Because you're right. I raised there. I get on that matter.

I may be settling for five seconds after looking around and checking out like, okay, like, come I onna size up here then IT starts if there is no music, i'm complaining about that in my mind and then i'm almost immediately thinking about what i'm going to do after the class. And the other thing that I think about in that example is I have probably poured more time and energy into the match, and the towel and the bottles of water and the outfit that i'm wearing, that I am about the reason why I do IT. And when you go deeper and you tap into the deeper principle of what this is forging, why you do IT, that's how you access the power of IT. And then you also give that example with your partner, where you say, the reason I do this is not because i'm supposed to, because they see all these other people doing IT, and because on this or that or the other thing, but because I know the deeper principle, i'm a Better person. I'm Better for you when I do this wow.

yeah, I may give you something else to that encompasses that. So real self care is not a thing to do. It's a way to be. It's a verb. It's not a known. It's something that you thread through all the decisions that you make in life, whether it's how you show up to yoga or what job you choose or who you decide to partner with like IT, IT really is something that is in the fabric. If you're .

doing IT, right, how do you figure out how to be. And i'm sitting you're also thinking to myself, okay, I spent a lot of time talking to people trying to distil their research and advice down to the takeaway and the thing to do o and I know you're not saying don't do the thing you're saying, go deeper first and actually understand the way you want to be in life. Is that what you're saying?

Yes, exactly. I'm not saying that the things are bad. You know, yoga actually can be really helpful.

Exercise is helpful. There's tons of buddies. Sleep is important, right? All these things. It's about how you show up to those things.

If you're not taking the time to reflect and understand how the yoga or the meditation is important in your life and really getting a sense for what he does for you, then you're just taking IT off the list. You're not actually taking in the medicine or the nourishment of those activities. And I want to say, for folks that are listening, I don't want you to feel ashamed because we all do this.

We live in a society where you open a tram or tiktok, and it's just right. It's all the the makeup and the yoga and all the things we all do this. We're all in this together.

And it's not about shaming yourself. You can't like beat yourself into real self care. And again, it's just that you have to understand that the internal work has to go along with IT beforehand. Other's it's just gonna empty calories. And I mean, if you're like me, you'll be really create you'll do every day for like two weeks and then you'll get busy and then you'll fall off.

I think I just had a whole like like bob moment. Let's go to the example where you said your online that happens of us. You see a fitness influencer that looks fantastic and they're doing yoga on a mat beach.

And you think yourself, I really need to be doing that. I need to be taking Better care of that that right there that I should I need to the adding of the thing to to do this. That's when IT becomes almost like a former shape, like making yourself wrong in that moment.

You're not doing the thing that you think you should be doing. I think that is such a common experience to see a plans, to see somebody doing yoga, to see somebody hiking or doing whatever, and to then go, I should be doing that. And the fact that I haven't made time for that means that I am doing something wrong. Is there something you could do in that moment that truly is self care, that being part that you're gone to teach us today?

Yeah so that's I mean, that's the boundaries, right?

That's my boundaries. What what is a about?

I'm glad that you ask that question well, because I do think we see boundary everywhere, like you open any APP and everybody is talking about boundaries. So I can be a little bit I roll my stake on boundaries is different and where to get IT into that. But essentially, the boundary doesn't always mean saying no.

So this was an aha that I had where I kind of came to and understanding this was an, I think I was twenty sixteen. I just graduated my psychiatry residents H G W. Ora washing university in dc, and I got my dream job on the faculty. And I was gonna be helping to run the women's mental health clinic and your bread, I and bushy tail and my adviser, my mentor d SHE, took me out for lunch on my first day.

And he was like, I mean, to give you a piece of advice, put a and I was like, oh, maybe it's about, like, how did those associations or some secret, you don't need to answer your office film, you can let a good voice, mell listens what they want, decide and then respond. And that's what I was like out the boundary is the pause. And then you always have three options, yes, no, or negotiate.

Because the truth is that no always comes with the cost, whether that is emotional or financial or political or in our personnel, right? Like no is not accessible for everybody. But the pause, you can always do the pause.

So for me in that example, IT was like, okay, you know, sometimes the phone rings and it's the front desk and they just have some insurance. Papworth, that sign and I can call them back and I can say you do that. But sometimes, like it's a patient who I know, if he misses a day of her altar at her eighty medicine SHE will literally get into a car accident let me put in that ref over IT.

Wait, great to you. Pause and you reflect. So so it's about responding as opposed to reacting. And so that's what a boundaries means for me IT, is that pause is to be a little we will about IT. It's like the existential space in between.

Why do we need to pause? How does that connect to the fact that we don't take good care of ourselves?

But in order to actually be able to take care of yourself, you need to really acknowledge that you are a self that needs taking care of like that. You are actually an embodied person that has your own wants and needs and preferences and desires. And and that is something that actually is a little bit radical, shockingly, in our society.

And the first step to IT, again, is the boundary because that's the pause that the space in between. And when we're talking about real self care, there's four principles, boundaries, compassion, values and power. The boundaries are the backbone.

It's actually what you put in between and IT d markets your own space. So so that's why they're so important. I if there were one psychological skill for folks to learn when IT comes to doing life is boundaries. I understand .

your practice. There are five questions that you use is almost like an assessment you write about at your book that give you almost a temperature check on where somebody is on the scale of boundaries and power and values. Can you blow us through those five questions? yes.

Do I feel motivated to tackle my tasks? Or am I overwhelmed? Or am I apathetic? Are there any particular people or situations that are constantly draining me? Do I set aside regular time for rest? Or am I always pushing through and grading my teeth?

Do I ever ask for help? And when people offer help, am I able to actually receive IT and I making time for things that truly matter to me, not my kids, not to my partner, not to society, but to me? Or am I constantly caught up in things that don't serve me?

I think I just heard the person who's with us right now slam a little. There were a couple of those, especially the one, do I set aside time for rest? Or am I always pushing through? That really was like, what does IT tell you as a psychiatry when someone is answering these questions?

As I know, I don't feel like I can tackle my test. I'm really drained by situations, or I never rest, or I don't allow people to help me, and I definitely don't make time for things that truly matter to me, not to everyone else. And Frankly, I don't even know what matters to me. I'm so busy taking care of everyone else. What does that tell you when you walk somebody .

through these questions? The reality is that all of us, that is all of us, that is all my patience. That is me at various times of my life.

I think that we need to understand, again, going back to the fact that we're living in the society together, we are all under these pressures. So of course, you're going to feel this way. And when I see this come up in my practice, again, this is everybody naming IT.

Naming IT is so power because then we can actually say, okay, what do we do? How do we work on this? I imagine that most folks listening aren't yet.

They checked off, yes, for everything. I don't want anybody to panic. I don't want you to freak out.

I think that we need to also kind of reframe the conversation on burnt out a little bit because I think that if you have checked all these things, you you might be run out. But I think that we kind of treat burnout as like the threaded catastrophic thing. But when something is so dread, you engage in denial, you engage and avoidance.

And then, you know, IT takes lending yourself in the hospital or losing your job, getting into a car accident to finally say, oh yeah, I guess, I guess I am burnt out. So in reality, I think that we need to understand that's just part of the game right now because of the world that we live in. And the whole process of boundaries and whale self care is to recognize that sooner to when it's like a little b burnout as opposed to a big be burn out so that you can start to get back on the lagging and start to get back into your boundaries, right? So you're not reaching that place of on the floor.

I'm saying this because I want folks to understand that there are solutions. This is not incurable, and I walk patients through this all the time. And I you know, I will say if you're somebody whose type a or perfections sicker work cohosh c not that I know know anybody like that, you will probably go through this cycle more often because you are constantly sort moving forward.

So I will stay for myself. I grow with this like every six months where I have to kind of like can figure and think about my boundaries and and we learn how to talk to myself. But there's a software lining. IT gets easier each time. IT gets so much easier each time.

How do you define burn out? I think it's a .

little bit chicken and egg coy comes to boundaries and burn out because one of the characteristics of burnout is feeling like your actions have no meaning, almost like kind of like a cynical m like you're just going through the motions, but nothing that you do actually really matters or is onna impact anything? And when you don't have boundaries, you also sort of feel like everything's closing in on you. You don't have a choice.

You're not actually living your life. Your life is sort of happening to you. I think it's tough. I think that know this is one of the thing, this why therapy takes so long, you know, because you have to tease apart all the different pieces because certainly not having boundaries makes them more likely that you're going to become burned out. But when you are burnt out and and even little bee burn out, your boundaries are usually worse. So it's like this cycle that keeps going.

You even talking a lot about the power of a pause. So i'm going to take a pause right now so we can give our sponsors an opportunity, share a few words with you, but don't go anywhere because coming up later in the episode, puja has an exercise. That you're going to be able to do today.

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Plus you can feel comfortable knowing has trusted experts that can talk through any questions of vaccine recommendations with you, stay protected, this respiratory season and stop by or schedule today that sees subject to availability and for ages three plus state age and health related restrictions apply. Welcome back at your friend melt robbins, and you and I get a master quest today on boundaries and how they connect to your ability to take Better care of yourself. So puja, what does somebody's life look like if they don't .

have any boundaries? yes. So there's three health hail signs that tell me a patient doesn't have boundaries.

The first is that they are angry and irritable all the time, that everybody around them knows that they're kind of like a ticking time bomb. But the person actually, they just think that they are self less. They think that they are doing everything for everyone else. So the perfect examples is, know the mom that stays up all night on Christmas eve, wrapping all the gifts, and then the next morning is just like a terror. And is me me?

Yeah, you mean me? That is me like and you know what I what I was thinking is, oh my god. H I have that I do get angry. I go overboard and I get angry when I don't feel appreciated. And then I feel like a victim. And I have this whole thing where my family takes me for granted, and you're not thankful enough when really I didn't need to buy matching rapping paper, I didn't need to go overboard and basically drive myself into the ground to make everything perfect. And instead of having a boundary with myself and stopped myself, I then become a victim and get pissed off at my family because I don't appreciate all this stuff that they never asked me to do in the first place and they don't even want me to do exactly.

exactly. And that's actually that's the other thing that I see that the second sign is expecting everybody else to be constantly grateful and thinking you when, in fact, they haven't even asked for any of these things, but you have this underlying assumption and need that people need to be pouring their things out you. And then you know you are reasonable when you don't get IT.

But the reality is nobody asked for IT you. You made that choice. That can be a sign, right? You are expecting other people to constantly be thanking you for all of the things that you're doing for them.

The person that doesn't have boundaries is constantly feeling like they are managing their life as supposed to live in their life. I see this a lot with my patients, who are all women, mostly moms. great.

You feel like you're managing your family as opposed to actually being part of your family because you haven't taken the space to unloaded some things and actually allow yourself to be present. So another sign is that you constantly fantasies about escape. So whether that is I just need to go to a retreat for a week.

I just need to lay on the beach. Um you know I just need to one of my personal favorites that i've engaged in before I just want I want na moved like a vegetable farm and just have this very simple life right where I just farm. So there really is those are escapes and your mind goes there because you feel so overwhelmed and you feel powerless about actually making decisions and choices in your life.

You know, i'm listening to you. I'm having this massive realization about boundary. I've always known that boundary are not for the other people. Boundaries are like my rules for myself, but the mistake that i'm realizing that I made is that i've always made those rules about what I do and don't do with other people, and i've never hit that pause and truly thought about what are the rules that I have for myself that allow me to truly care for myself.

And it's a completely different way to look at this topic and why the pause then becomes essential so that you stop yourself from constantly pouring and everybody else and then running them over when they are not grateful, like I always do, or feeling like the victim are unappreciated. Wow, this is like kind of pull in on a string of the sweater. And now my whole life is unraveling before my eyes, and I realized I have a lot of work to do.

I'm so sorry what .

I should be thanking you. I like, guy, I am happy to do the work to not drive myself crazy and into the ground and make my family in the villains here. So IT does beg the question of how the hacked you start.

I mean, and I gna put my hands on my hips. Me like, alright, no wrapping on Christmas present. You guys are getting him in the grocery bags this year and you Better be grateful. Like I have a boundary. Like how do you do .

with don't do that, okay? You, anna, start small. And so that means actually not with your family, because your families actually the hardest. That's like advances level setting bounders with family or in laws. You wants to actually start really.

really small. Why is IT hard to set bounders a family?

Because you have years and years and years of history with family that you have to undo. So you know if if mom has been folding laundry and and putting everyone's you know folded laundry in their draws for past thirty years and all the mom says like, hey guys, not going to be launching more like people to have .

some feelings actually, can I say something Better? So I stopped doing laundry a couple years ago and our son, okay, he will admit this and he will not be by upset at all that i'm about to share IT, I don't know this like a dissects ic thing, but he does not fold his close. He does his own laundry.

Ry, but he will do the laundry. And then it's in big piles and it's kind of thrown and doors. And the feelings that you're talking about that people have when you stop doing something, it's not just what they have, it's what you have. Because I would walk past this room and see the state that that was in. And the feelings that would come up would be like what the and I would have .

to stop myself .

from going in and folding the clothes and doing the things that I used to do. And so I think you probably both their feelings that come up when you change and also your feelings that come up.

Yeah, i'm so glad that you're brought this up because it's actually this reminds me of two things. You have to let go of control. You have to let the other person do what they are onna do, even if that means a messy under verda and IT drives you crazy.

You have to let go control. The other thing is it's gonna longer. It's gonna take longer. People are going to do with their own way. A lot of times we avoid the yes, no and negotiate because it's just easier to say yes and just do IT and get IT done and then you could just move on with your day, but and said when you stop and you negotiators say no or is this whole thing and we kind of track ourselves into thinking it's not worth IT, but the reality is that is worth because you're setting new expectations tions for the future.

for yourself and for them. Correct that i'm not going to get up set up about this because my energy is needed elsewhere. curt. wow. So how do you get started if we're going to start small and not with our family?

So you want to start at really low stakes risks, so very baby risks. So I will tell you with my patients and and even for me at times, it's through media, it's like I am going to sit down and eat lunch.

You mean that actually eat but not stand and eat and and .

k in front of my computer? Yes, i'm going to sit down at a table and actually eat lunch. I have a patient who a is a health are worker, and so as we got working on these things we realized we can go an entire eight hour shift um on the words working and not eat anything and not drink anything, not even have a simple of water.

So we start small like we start really basically, okay, every hour you're going to go to the nurse's station and you're going to drink some water. That's where you start. You do not start with your kids and Christmas or your mother in law and thanksgiving. You start by and the drinking water, those skills they built on each other, they give you confidence, and then you work your way up.

I could see that you could set like an alarm on your phone to go off every hour during the work day with a nice little busters, something. And that that's your little pause moment yeah oh, this is a reminder that I have to have a boundary with work right now so that I can care for myself.

Can I ask a question about, yeah how is telling yourself you're going to take a break, a boundary to see you? I mean, because I think when you're hear boundary, I think fence and I got to keep like it's it's like i'm doing something in relation to other people yeah and I would love to hear you on pack how drinking more water or the one the pop in my mind is is IT a boundary to say to myself on weeknights I need to be in bed by nine o'clock. And what does that even mean in the context of how you think about boundaries as a psychiatrist and how we can learn this fundamental skill?

Can I ask you some questions? Of course, tell me more about how you made that limit for yourself that I need an oh like what LED to that? What what did you notice that LED to you saying that to yourself?

It's a great question and i'm gonna wer IT and I want to invite you as you're listening to the questions that puja is asking me, to think about the boundary that you need to set and how you would answer these same questions for herself. And so we do asked that question again.

yeah. So I I wanna understand a little bit Better why you chose that limit, why getting embedded nine o'clock was something that felt important for your well being. What was the decision making process and and what was going wrong that LED to? I know that when I .

get a great nights sleep, I feel Better. I have a Better day. I'm a kinder person that allows me to show up for myself and for my and for my colleagues at work. And if I don't get in bed by nine o'clock, what s up happening is my husband does. And then I tell myself i'm just going to do a couple things quickly and then i'll be in the bed.

And then like a lot of people, I find that two hours goes by and i've either spent on my phone or I have watched another episode of a series that is not that important or I have fucked around. And now all the seven eleven and my husband is sound to sleep, and i'm thinking I should have gone to bed. And so now i'm making myself on.

And then there's another impact because I also feel really good when I get out of bed early and I have enough time to be able to get a full walk in and be able to start my day at a pace that feels nurturing rather than that feels like i've been shoved into a can and and shot out of IT. And so I like that the reason. And so if it's sort of unravels from there and the later that I go to bed, the more than impact that has on the chaos, the morning and the things I don't have time to do that truly take .

me got IT OK.

That was a long answer .

that was great. And I and for focus that are listening, I want you to be thinking through all of these different steps. And the answer that I give, I want you to try apply IT to the specific situation in your life. So what I am hearing is the decision to go to back at nine is the full software, though the first software full.

You mean like fake software. Are you shaming me? Doctor care, I think what is going on here? So there is fake self care .

when I say, I mean, it's the superficial level. The real self care is actually all of the decisions that you made to get to that place of going to sleep at nine ninety m. Because for another person, their bedtime could be eleven. Somebody else, their bedtime could be seven. So the reason that we're putting that label on IT is so that everybody knows that their real software is gonna different.

Oh, so the bad time is the thing.

The time is the thing.

And i'm focused on the time i'm going to bed, just like we are talking earlier about focusing on going to the yoga class and the class and the bedtime is the thing that superficial, the thing that you have to do, the thing that turns into the shame when you don't do IT.

But the opportunity for power is to go deeper and to understand what exactly is underneath the thing and the way you're trying to care for yourself by going to yoga or getting in bed by a certain time, correct? So the boundary for me is more about not doing those things that keep me awake and keep me from going to sleep and getting the rest that I need so that I can wake up in the morning and truly set myself up to feel good again. That makes sense.

yeah. yes.

Because you're right. I've been focused on nine o'clock, and the second nine o'clock rolls around and I blow right, pasted. Now I make IT myself wrong because i've stayed up, ate versus just focusing on.

So what do I focus on? Yes, I were. Because I think you're going you're trying to chAllenge us to think about the deeper reasons why this matters and why U. S. A person deserve this kind of care from yourself.

Yes, yes. The reason that boundaries are the first principle of real self care is to even be able to make space to think in this way. To look at your day going, how your week is going, you, you need to take some time back from other people in your life from respighi t ie s, right? So you need to have the time to actually think, okay, I need to go a bit, little bit later.

How I going to make that happen. What are the things that i'm doing to programming the boundary is the way that you make the space to even be able to have this conversation with yourself if it's not just the Operational yes, there is the Operational boundary of. And IT turn screens off. I'm gonna all that is just as important. But it's it's also kind of a medicine too.

I just got a big inside about myself that i'm going to share because I hope IT has I hope it's as you're listening IT may be helps you think deep. I just realize something as you're pushing me to think more deeply about what I actually need. I have just come through a period where I ve been working so much because of changes your work.

And my bookman script was due that by the time I rolled into the TV room where my husband had been watching T V for a half an hour and he's ready to go to bed, i'm just finishing work and i'm staying awake because I haven't relaxed at all until that moment. I'm not ready to go to bed. And so the boundary really isn't about going to bed at nine.

It's really about taking back more of my time from work, no, and from other demands. This kind of tension around getting too bad at the right time has way more to do with how i've over extended myself everywhere. And that means it's more than a bedtime. It's taking a deeper look at where am I working on things that don't matter me, whether I said yes, where I need to actually say no, what do I want my evenings to look like so that I feel like I get a little bit of time and enjoy and unrest and entertainment back.

Oh, my work here is done. The way you explain these topics .

is just incredible. So here's what I want to do. I want to take a quick pause.

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Now that's V E G A M O U R dot com flash male code mill to save twenty percent on your first star V E G A M O U R 点 com flash code meal。 Welcome back to friend mail Robins. And today you are learning all about boundaries from the extraordinary psychiatrist and professor doctor puja.

So buda, let's go to the example that you said of somebody that's got a super busy day. And you are starting to realize that, holy cow, at the end of the day, I feel like a reason, and my urine is bright orange because I have not had a droplet of water. And I need to set a boundary of taking a break every hour and making sure I drink something or I eat something. Can we impact what that's actually about or how you draw that boundary, or what that means?

We raise girls to get their value in their ability to be accommodating to others. So I think that the guilt actually is coming from the outside. 嗯， but that doesn't change that IT sucks to feel guilty.

And you know, the number one reason that my patients struggle with founders ies is the guilt. So mean, share a little a tool that can help with the guilt. So this tool comes from acceptance and commitment. Theri, which is a third wave type be that incorporates eastern like mindfulness and meditation in the concept. And I say that because I know focus that are listened and audience is familiar with meditation ness.

Hopeful ly, i've never heard of the third wave of this. So that is a brand new concept for me. Okay.

so imagine that you are at a sushi restaurant. So one of the sushi restaurants where the plates are coming around on the convey bet, there is a sushi shaft, and he is at the center of all the plates. That chef, the sushi chef, is your brain, that your mind, the plates of sushi that are going around the convey bet, are your thoughts and your feelings and your memories and your desires rolling through over the course of the whole day.

And now, you know, you're sitting at that that sushi bar and you there's going to be plates that are really optick like that. You're going to want to pick up and grab and gobble. You know, for me, that is like spicy.

I love spicy general, right? But there is going to be plates that like, really are unappetizing. And we all have different things we like, uh, I just want to push that away.

Yes, but you don't do that at a sushi restaurant. You just let the plates go by. So that's how we use.

Think about guilt. Hills is not something that is IT doesn't need to be our moral compass. IT is just one feeling that is there, among many other feelings and thoughts. And when we frame all of our decisions around boundaries based on guilt, we're giving up way too much power. The reason that I think that this, hopefully this metaphor helps for folks is because when you visualize the sushi train, you're able to see that the guilt is just one small piece over everything else. And if you spend all of your time trying to avoid feeling guilty, you're actually giving the guilt just as much power.

So i'm thinking about the person who is taking their break and they're gonna their water and a little snack and the second that they go down one floor and they hide in a room that nobody else. So you can just take a break and set that boundary. The feelings of I should really go back to work, I shouldn't stay along.

I'm going to get in trouble if i'm doing this. You're saying every one of those thoughts are just a sushi plate of sea urgent going by. And you can just let IT come and let you go and stay and have your water and keep in the pause.

Correct that your job is to learn how to tolerate the guilt. And, you know, I know that this is difficult, but the good news is that as you start to practice IT, IT becomes easier, the volume goes down on. The guilt IT never completely goes away again because it's constructed from the outside. But he gets so much softer, becomes more of a whisper. And you ever to be IT doesn't bother you.

How do you cancel a patient who is coming to you? And the guilt is related to being a single parent, or related to caring for an aging parent or somebody that is going through an illness and just nonstop. How do you handle boundaries and truly caring for yourself, for asking for help in those situations?

Yeah will look, people who are in those situations usually are in fighter fly. Their nervous system is hyper violent and stress for good reason. They are Carrying so much responsibility.

So the first piece is just acknowledged the grief. Really just acknowledge how hard this is and how much of sucks. Really, that validation goes a really long way. After that, there is a couple things. One, recognizing that by setting a boundary, by pausing, you're not always going be able to say no, right?

The boundaries of the pause, understanding that, that will feel uncomfortable because there are a lot of people depending on them, but they have to start somewhere small rate. We're just we're talking about the small things, the feeding and water in yourself, and you'll be able to work up to the bigger things and evolving ing in those situations like, yes, there is going to be a cost like balls will drop, you know nor r robberts talks about the rober balls. This is the glass balls, right?

You need to know what those rubber balls are.

You can you give us examples of what they ah so things like I have three kids and they're all in different schools and those schools each one is like thirty minutes from the other to my kids really all need to go to schools that are thirty minutes from each other. That is a choice that is a choice that you have made. Here's another example and and I talk about this in the book, i'm the one who is taking care of my father.

My mother passed away. I have other siblings, but they are not contributing at all. And i've been taking this, i've been taking this for years and years and years.

But you're finally going to understand that you can do IT all by yourself, and you will get sick if you continue to keep doing IT all by yourself. So again, that's kind of exciting the boundary and understanding. I need to have a hard conversation with my siblings. They need to chip in as well.

How do you coach somebody through that? Because that's such a common thing yeah where you're the one that's closed by yes and maybe your siblings aren't and you've ask for help but IT doesn't come yeah how do you have that boundary because so many of us feel like, well, i'm not just gonna let my father rod p alone as a way to make a point to my siblings.

How do you truly ask? And i'd like demand an effective way to get the support that you need. So IT depends .

a little bit on the circumstances. So you have to think about how intact are the relationships that you have with your siblings. Do they have the capacity to help? If they don't, then you need to make that decision for yourself that you are going to find help in other ways that you are going to move forward regardless of what they're able to do or not able to do.

Again, you know, I mentioned grief earlier, being able to process the fact that this isn't fair, this isn't fair. That's important. Like you need that space to be able to acknowledge that.

But then also, despite that fact, still find a way to advocate for yourself. IT might not be with your siblings because maybe they're just really not onna chip in. They're not going to help.

Maybe it's getting some help around the neighborhood. Maybe you have a babysitter that used to when your kids were Younger and maybe they can come around. Maybe it's finding some activities for your parent. It's never going to be something that completely takes away the feeling of burden. And sometimes, you know I know that that's a loaded word, but you have to start with small things like it's not like you can just say like, okay, i'm setting a boundary and here's the boundary. You have to kind of be more surgical with IT.

But one thing that I often see that surprises me and I ve been the situation so easy to kind of look on the outside and think i'd do something different. But I have a number of friends who became the primary caretaker of an aging parent and no support from siblings, but then they would make the mistake of thinking they should consult their siblings about the decisions.

And so to me, if there's not an equal sharing of the burden, you actually have no set at the table to make the decision. And that to me is one of those choices that could be a boundary in that situation, like where your own behavior isn't creating enough space between you and the situation to make decisions that feel more powerful for you because of the guilt. You talk about selfishness, you say guilt and selfishness are the two emotions that come up.

How do you deal with selfishness? The exact same thing. Sushi play.

Yeah so the sushi plate definitely helps for sure. Um one of the other things that I think about with selfishness is is just the fact that we're kind of constantly ping pong ging back and forth between selfish versus self less.

And obviously for women, self less is something that is really put on a pedal and self ish is something that is, you know, this dreaded outcome when in reality, the healthy way to be living is to be in shades of grey, to be in in the middle place. I mentioned earlier that one of the signs of not having boundaries is to feel like you're managing your family is supposed to being part of your family. I'm not saying that every single decision is according to your preference is like maybe one out of every like ten decisions that you make is according to your preference that you are actually including yourself. I find that when my patience feel selfish, it's usually because they are engaging in some sort of black and way, thinking all or nothing, either selfish or self less. The reality is, is a middle ground.

What are the top three boundaries that you find that people really need to set in their life? So one of the biggest .

things is all of the decisions that you make as a parent, whether that is when your kids are really little around, like how you're going to feed your kid, how you're going to get your kids to sleep, who's going to take care of your kid all way up to what college is my kid going to go to, where are they going to do with their life shell, I know you're you just completed the boundary is not ruminating so much about all those things, not assuming that you have so much control.

So I spent all of the time with my patients, kind of helping them understand that this thing, these things in parenting don't need to be constantly litigated. In your mind, of course, work is such a huge you know aspect of what I talk about with my patients and a lot of things that you said to being able to disconnect, finding a way to let go of, you know, whatever work project or whatever dynamics that's going on with your boss and giving yourself permission to let you go. How do you do that .

when you're worried about getting fired? And i'm not saying that you're doing a bad job, but I am shocked at how quickly I see this, especially like with my adult kids or with friends who they're clearly in a situation that's not working for them but is like what I can just but I got ills to pay but have a that had. And so there's this narrative in your mind that is so feared driven that is a part of this dynamic where you've lost power. So how do you begin to start to set boundaries at work when you've convinced yourself you have no power and you knew this paycheck?

There's a couple things for this. So one is, again, I I keep going back to the start, small. But the reason for that, the reason for the, you know drink water, take lunch is because that's a small risk.

That's a small risk. And then you can see you can see how your bus ride. You can see how your coworkers react.

If you're at a place where people like lose their minds because you're taking fifteen minutes to eight lunch, okay, well well then taking a bigger risk is gona be uh you know make more waves than you want IT to. So you're collecting information, you I kind of call collecting data. You don't want to take that big risk first because yet true, you need your job.

The other thing that I would say is I find that there are places that we can exert agency that are not top level that you are constantly thinking about. You know when you're in a toxic work situation, you're constantly sort just like, go this person said this and I have no but sometimes there can be smaller things that really make an impact, like what so I experience this actually. When is a medical student which talk about no agency, right? You're just on convenable.

I was in a surgical very that was like, very toxic. And I realize I was miserable. I realized my my team, they never called me by my name.

They were just like, no, they were just like, hey, student, hey, math student. My boundary, I couldn't leave. I couldn't. I was in mesa.

T was every time somebody said that, I would be like, oh, my name's puja and that had me feel a little bit like, okay, and you know, exerting myself. So sometimes I can be like, really song. I know that that sounds like silly.

I don't actually think that's a for example. And the reason why I don't think that's a small example is because everything that you're teaching us is about caring for self and that requires you to have a level of self awareness and respect for yourself that you in these moments will advocate for yourself, will ask for what you need, will tell people the correct principle of your name, or that this is my name.

And I do believe that you do reclaim your power in the tiniest of moments, because there are so many times during your day where you just let something side, and those are examples, whether it's somebody who bills you or disrespects you or mispronounces your name, and you just kind of let IT slide that you don't honor yourself and what you need. And so I do say, I think that's a big example. 嗯。

thank you.

You're welcome. And it's important to point out and i'm going to go back to the water because I remember when I left my job as a public defender, york city, and we moved to boston. And I the only job that I could get in the legal field was working for this huge, long firm because I was not licensed in the state of massachusets, so I couldn't do work.

I really hate to that job. And I remember there were couple times that I went outside the office for lunch and I came back and I was not admit I shed, but one time I was a friend who was like, dude, do you know the partner was looking for you and they couldn't find you and they're really upset. You weren't the building.

And I went, and IT was this huge moment where I immediately felt like I had no power over my life. And so I came up with all these little strategies, one of which was if I would go out to leave my jacket on my chair, and I also move my desk so they couldn't walk by and see my computer, but that theyd have to look and see the back, that just small ways, kind of. And every time I would leave the building, IT was this tiny, little active defiance.

But IT was a boundary and a way for me to say, I still have some agency here. And I think simply doing these small things first, help you do the bigger things later. How do you even know if you're starting to practice this type of deeper care for? I couldn't call itself cards like care for self, which feels like you're getting at the heart of truly caring for yourself.

You know, I guess maybe can you describe because sometimes you're like drink water. I really like let's yourself relax at nightman and put the pressure on a bed time. What's available to you?

yeah. Oh, I love that. I love you just when you're practicing these principles and you're applying them to your life, you feel like you have choices. You're able to actually take a step back when somebody asks you for something or ask you to do something and consider IT. You don't feel pressured.

You feel like you can take your time and that doesn't mean that every single thing in your life you're going to push back and say, no, no, you pick your battles, you're able to do this pause and say no and the guilt will be very small. It'll be a whisper, not something that over powers your whole. You will have feelings of flow really where you're in engaging activities or with people where time kind of falls away and you're fully present, you will be nicer.

You will be a nicer person to be around. Those are all of the signs that is working. And I want to see a couple things with this.

One, this isn't a game of perfection. Like, this isn't something you win. This is something that you're constantly practicing. So it's not like, oh, my god, and I have to be like the best person in the world. I need an a in boundaries to be able to do this.

No, you get A D in boundaries and you're just climbing your way up like we're constantly just taking baby step on, baby step on, baby up and you will fall off and then you just come back. That's the whole thing. It's not like you achieve this and you check IT off your list.

It's more like you use that as a again, like a thermometer like that I have in the book. It's like you're assessing yourself. And then when you find like, okay, like getting a little off here, let me look at what's going on. Let me start to think about how spending my time or my energy the .

image has just came to mind as I was listening to you. It's really change the way I am looking at boundaries right now. And that is like, I see a force field, I guess almost like you're erecting a personal force field between you and the world. And there's this space, the pause that you call IT between the things going on out here and all your concern and worry, an emotion and all that stuff that and what you choose to do in response, it's like that space that allows you to truly make a more powerful decision. Is that.

yeah, can I make an adjustment?

I would love to. I love you too. Yes, please, anyone.

I mean, I like the imaging of the force field.

I worried that the force field feels a little bit too much like a brick wall because you right now, you know, we're seeing all these things of people that are just like cutting out their families and like, you know, I don't talk to this person that was cancelled whatever um a healthy boundary is actually it's like um you know those big champions people have in their back yard and then there's the mesh. That's what a boundary should be like. It's like it's flexible.

It's given take and and yes, certainly there's going to be times where IT needs to be like more study and more firm. But the goal of a boundary isn't to always keep people out. The goal of a boundary is to be able to go in between so that you can get what you need and and hopefully the other person can too. Maybe not all the time, but it's more flexible .

that makes sense if you could speak directly to the person listening. What is one action that they could take today? Because I know there's gonna want to try to implement this, is there's something specific that they could do today to start to implement everything that you've taught us, like what's the most important thing to do?

The best way to take this information in and to start working with IT is to actually make time for IT. So look at your schedule. K, look at your schedule and say, when can I block off twenty minutes to think about my week? This could be on monday or on friday. This is going .

to be today OK. So you're gona look for twenty minutes today. You might be in the front city.

Your car might be after dinner, might be when, but you're look for twenty minutes. What exactly? And my here comes my taipei. What am I doing? yeah. Ah, what's .

the what? Each thing on your schedule fields, where do you feel dread? Where do you feel excitement and energy? Where do you feel bored? M, right? You just, you're looking to see what feelings come up. And then for the places where you feel bored, where you feel dread, you take the pass and write. We use your study is like twenty minutes and just twenty minutes.

Think about, okay, what is that about that thing? What is that about that meeting that makes me kind of just feel uncomfortable? Is that because that coworker who's always a little bit to me is there at those meetings is IT because that meeting is always at four thirty and ash, liam supposed to be picking my kid tup, at four thirty, and I haven't asked for that time thinking more deeply about what IT is. So that's the first step. And the next week, take some sort of of action.

Let's take both of those examples. So there is the meeting that is always scheduled at the time that i'm just pick my kids up. What is the pause that you can take as a yes known negotiate in terms of the boundary? So what are the options that you would have?

Let's just say that the meeting is a weekly standing team meeting. The boundary, the pause would be saying, okay, um one's the best time actually to communicate to my team that i'd like to see if we can move the weekly meeting. Can I send an email out and say, hey, I actually have daker pick up looking forward for next calendar year.

Can we change the standing meeting? Or even like next, you know, next month, can we change this calendar meeting? Does anybody have any objections to that? So you're communicating and voicing what's not working for you and then making a suggestion for what could change. Now i'm not gonna polyana about this and say that you every time that's gna work, but the whole thing here is exerting your agency. If you don't ask, it's never going to change.

Love this example because, first of all, taking the twenty minutes today is a pause.

Yes, this is you pausing from just racing through your day and racing into the next week, and then scanning your calendar for the next week and looking at every obligation from the sense of how to how does this make me feel? Is you posing again and dropping deeper into the principles that you were talking about and your values, and really like asking yourself what is coming up for me and then the coaching that you just gave us to then further pause and say, what request can I make? What can I negotiate? What could I say no to? What do I need to say yes to? That's another example of you actually excavating agency and power that you had no idea that you had because you have been so busy racing from one thing to the next.

I get IT now I get what you mean. That is in the pause that you will find your power and the agency that you have to make small adjustments and requests and to say no and to let the guilt rise up or not in that cause. Wow, what are your parting words?

But my parting words are, if I can do IT, you can do IT that this is something that we're all practicing together. It's something that were learning for the first time. And I know that might sound a little bit intimidating, but the reality is that once you start taking this pause each time, I will be easier each time that you see the world doesn't fall apart, my family doesn't fall apart, the Sunny, so shining. That is another way that you're building your confidence. So I want everyone who's listening to know that this is possible and that you've got this.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. IT is such a pleasure to be with you and to learn from you.

This was so fun. Thank you. Well.

you're welcome. And I also want to make sure that in case no one else tells you that I tell you that I love you, I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a Better life. And there is zero out of my mind that if you do take twenty minutes today, which I hope you do, and you look at your calendar and you lean into this pause, that you will tap into this power that is inside you to start to take control of these small moments. And we claim those aspects of your life already. I'll talk to you in a few days in the next episode.

Awesome, Chris, ready? awesome. Let everyone say whatever you want.

Look, I mean honestly, my now that I have .

a boundary with I you talk my book editor .

is my um meal so in paper is all matching and you know and everyone's like.

you know you mean .

me I I wish .

I were kidding.

awesome. You're so good at explaining and making that contest.

Thank you. You're welcome. And you had fantastic examples and really fabulous.

awesome. I'm so god.

Oh, and one more thing I know, this is not a blue per. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers right? And what I need to read you.

This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a license therapies, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist or other qualified professional. Got IT good. I'll see in the next episode.

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