Dr. Craig Koniver: Peptide & Hormone Therapies for Health, Performance & Longevity
02:29:13 Share

Welcome to the huberman lab podcast, where we discuss science and science space tools for everyday life. I am ter huberman and i'm a professor of neurobiology and optimal gy at stanford school of medicine. My guess today is daughter treg conver daughter treg Connie r.

Is a medical doctor who did his training at Brown university and Thomas jefferson university. He is a world expert in what he refers to as performance medicine, which involves the use of peptides and other therapies for improving mental health, physical health and performance. Now many you have perhaps heard of peptide therapies.

Perhaps some of you have not. A petty is simply a small protein. So insuing is a peptide.

We have many different thousands of peptides in our brain and body, and they perform A A variety of different roles. Doctor conniving s expertise is in the use of exogenous, that is petites. That one takes exogamous peptides for activating multiple pathways in the brain, in body to augment help.

Now, of course, petites, such as instant, have been used for many years now to treat things like diabetes. But today we talk about novel peptides, including G, L, P, one. So these are glue on like peptide analogues.

Things like olympic and monja, which I realized are a bit controversial. However, today we talk about the microcosm of those peptides. We talk about those peptides to combine with other peptides as well as behavioral practices to offset the muscle laws associated with them.

And then we dive into some lesser known peptides, but ones that are growing in use, for instance, of bpc one five seven, or body protection compound one five seven, which is used to treat inflamed tion, to accelerate wounds healing and a variety of other things. Then we discuss the use of peptides specifically to increase growth, ormont's creation during sleep, as well as some peptides that can actually increase rapid d eye movement sleep dramatically. Today, we also discuss testosterone on therapies not just for men, but for women.

These are growing increasingly popular, as well as things like nd, as well as specific supplements. Doctor Connie, as he will soon and tell you, is not a huge proportion of supplement, but he does mention several that he feels are a particular use, including things like coin's, i'm q ten and some of the metal laded b vitamins. And he explained why he takes that stance.

So today's discussion is really for anybody interested in mental health, physical health and performance. And the reason I say that is that even if you aren't considering taking peptides or already taking peptides, peptides and some of these other compounds i've mentioned sits somewhere between doing nothing except diet and exercise supplements, which I will see is the next step of the latter in terms of augmenting your health approaches. And then, of course, there are a number of prescription drugs, including hormone therapies, such as growth hormone therapies, to stop on therapies in a number of other things that, yes, can modify those hormones, pathways.

They are, in fact, hormones, but they actually can shut down one's natural production of those hormones, pathways. Peptide therapy sits somewhere between doing nothing in supplementation in those more advanced hormone therapies. And that's why peptide therapies, I believe, are growing in popularity.

They can augment specific hormonal pathways. They can augment specific, in fact, multiple processes within the brain and body to augment health. But they don't tend to Operate in that negative feedback cycle by shutting down one's own in doggy ous production.

Now that doesn't mean that they aren't without some safety concerns. And today, we, of course, discuss the potential side effects and safety concerns of peptides as well as the critical issue of sourcing clean petites and working with a board sartiges ed physician if one is going to pursue peptide use. So by the end of today's discussion, you will be right there on the cutting edge of what's happening and where things are going with peptides.

And in keeping with that, you'll notice that during today's s discussion, we talk a fair AMD about what the F D, A currently allows in terms of prescription peptides, what the fda has recently removed from the market in terms of peptides. And as a very and update, just prior to the release of this episode, I learned that three peptides, C, J, C, one, two, nine, five, IP, maryland, both of richer in the growth hormones secreted goga family, meaning they promote the release of growth hormone, as well as Thomas and beta alpha, which is in the sort of anti inflammatory and tissue repair pathway. Those three are now reallowed for prescription in the united states.

So at the time of recording this episode, we discuss some of those as being recently banned by the fa. They are now approved again for use in humans by the fda. So there's a brief and very recent update.

So just to summarize this admitted long introduction, today, you're going to learn about this incredible area of science called peptide biology and how I can augment mental health, physical health and performance. And you're going to do so from one of the worlds leading clinical experts. Before you begin, i'd like emphasized that this podcast is separate from my teaching and researchers at stanford.

IT is, however, part of my desired effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme and like to thank sponsors of today's podcast, our first sponsor is due jew makes medical grade red light therapy devices. Now there's one thing that I ve consistently emphasized on this podcast, IT, is the incredible impact that light can have on our biology.

Now in addition to sunlight, red light and near infor red light sources, i've been shown to have positive effects on improving numerous aspects of seller in organ health, including faster muscle recovery, improves skin health and own healing, improvements in agony, reduce pain and inflation tion, even by a control function, and improving vision itself. What sets tube lights apart and why they might preferred red light therapy device is that they use clinically proven wavelength animal fc wavelength of red light and near and for red light in combination to trigger the optimal seller adaptations. Personally, I use the job whole body panel about three to four times a week, and I used the job handheld light, both at home and when I, if you'd like to try job, you can go to job.

Spell J O O V V dot com slash huberman tube is offering an exclusive discount to all huberman lab listeners with up to four hundred dollars off tube products. Again, that due spell J O O V V dot com slash huberman in to get up to four hundred dollars off. Today's episode is also brought to us by Better help.

Better help offers professional therapy with a license therapies Carried out entirely online. Therapy is an extremely important component to overall health. In fact, I consider doing regular therapy just as important as getting regular exercise, including cardiovascular exercise and resistance training exercise.

Now there are essentially three things that great therapy provides. First, IT provides a good report with somebody that you can really trust and talk to about any and all issues that concern you. Second of all, great therapy provides support in the form of emotional support, but also directed guidance, the dose and the not to do.

And third, expert therapy can help you arrive at useful insights that you wouldn't have, have the other wise insight that allow you to do Better, not just in your emotional life, in your relationship life, but also the relationship to yourself and your professional life and all sorts of career goals. With Better help, they make a very easy to find an expert therapies with whom you can really resonate and provide you with these three benefits that I described. Also because Better help is Carried out entirely online is very time efficient and easy to fit into a busy schedule with no commuting to a therapies office or sitting in a waiting room or looking for a parking spot.

So if you'd like to try Better help, go to Better help that com slash huberman to get ten percent off your first month again, that's Better help. Duck com slash huberman. And now for my discussion with doctor trig connive. Doctor, a red connect. welcome.

Thank you and you. I appreciate the invitation to be here.

Thrill that you're here. We are gona launch ourselves into the space that is called peptides yeah and it's it's an interesting space for sure because I think most people probably don't know what a petites they should feel. No guilt, shame about that, right? Sure, you you'll tell us.

But this area of medicine that people broadly refer to as peptides is picking up a lot of momentum even though it's been around for a long time. And I find IT particularly interesting because um there are many people using peptides for very specific purposes, but most people haven't heard of the various peptides that are out there right in. If anything, we can be sure that in the years to come, peptides are going to beat increasingly popular and and there's of course, the incredibly popular peptide of G L P one agg ones .

sure taking over.

So to drop into this um and make sure everyone on the same page what is a peptide yeah I mean .

just from a very elementary level petition or just chains of a minor assets. So minos is all naturally occuring molecules we call a peptide of its forty mino assets or less called a protein of its forty mino assets or more. The body makes, I think last I were three hundred thousand peptides.

So it's a massive number. We probably there peur ally are using closer to one hundred and fifty over the years, which is obviously tiny compared to that. So to your point, this is blossoming. We've been using peptides for about eight years, a long time, but still very early in in our understanding of how best to use peptides and how clinically we're going to get the most autism. So it's exciting.

Maybe just to orient ourselves, we should talk about G, L, P one first, not because it's necessarily the category of peptides that I think people would want to consider for themselves, but because most people have probably heard of a summer u tide and monjardin things like that. So um how long ago was IT that humans started injecting G L P one agony in order to lose weight?

I think the weight loss aspect has only been a couple years. I may have been tremendous. How it's accelerated to like literally becoming the number one prescribed in america.

Know semi glue title epic was approved longer than that for four type I diabetics helping with you know, goos control and helping with google ual zia. Uh, and what they found, you know, as a side effect, was these people are losing weight. And then that word caught on.

And you know, what's interesting, I don't think most people understand that most of the medicines prescribed american amErica prescribed off label, meaning theyve never ever been approved what they're used. So yeah the vast majority, yes, I never approved. So as a physician, i'm allowed to prescribe any drug for any reason I want as long as been approved for something, as long as we're safe.

They don't only be capital about this and reneging do all these things that are that are out out of the bounds. But that is the truth. So that some of you is a great example being used for helping people, diabetics type to diabetics, lower their blood sugar.

And then IT got to will now, let help diabetics lose weight, right? Because diabetics struggle with weight, the insulin resistance. And then IT became, well, even if you're not a diabetic, could you benefit from losing weight? Well, heck, yeah.

right. I mean, look at the amount of obesity and people who overweight having trouble maintaining healthy way. It's exorbitant, this country and certainly worldwide.

So then I spread IT did eventually get A F D approval specifically for weight loss. But at first, now it's been just for type two diabetics to help with google utilization. And you we've been using primarily tranest tite, which is like send my glue tide version two point zero. Mostly for the past two years, have learned a tremendous amount. And my opinions actually changed from working with people.

What is your opinion? My understanding is that, um well they serve two camps on this IT seems at least two camps. One camp seems really bullish on this. Um they seem very excited about this drug.

The other camp seems to a point to the fact that one may be creating a drug dependency that is very expensive um and they point to the also potency of lifestyle factors like exercise and clerk restriction um eating mostly non process foods. That said, as a conical Better alternative, i'm not necessarily saying that I think both have their place. It's to me IT seem is very contextual but as a clinical.

i'm curious what you think yeah I I agree both have their place. Uh, my philosopher, I want everyone had have access to things that number one save that propel them to look, feel and perform their best. And if that means right, if I was just about if I can exercise my way out of this at my way out of this, meaning lose weight, change my body composition, why do we have an epidemic, you know, of so many people who struggle with that because it's really hard, right? We don't totally understand IT.

I'm not saying that yeah, the process of things a massive problem and that's come to light recently with people pushing for us to take a look at food companies and the quality of our food, which is amazing. But if people aren't interested in doing Better for themselves and you know this is may not make sense, but I think that does the analogy I uses. I like to help people win the race first, which then helps them motivate to train for the next race, right? And this kind of goes against the grain of communal medicine, which is, if you want to train for the race, you have to run a certain number miles.

You have to keep a certain way to eat a certain way. You've to do all the things struggle to get there right? And losing way is a struggle.

And and the way I located, I can help people lose weight first, literally, by using something like to, is appetite some of a blue tide? I've C 呢。 They're now excited.

I mean, I met with a client yesterday here in los angles, and SHE little looked to me. Instead, you've changed my life. SHE goes, I am a super successful woman in my company, with my family, with my kids.

Everything's great, but now I love my life. My workout are Better. I look Better, my clothes t Better. I am super excited about waking up every morning like SHE is there.

And that is what it's about, right? And so for people, if you can help them achieve their goal first, then you're going to be motivated. The light will turns on there, be like, wow, I want more of this and that's the oha moment that I love helping people with.

So at first I was like going to be really cautious with the same thinking, like I don't want people to lose too much weight, like this is a problem or they can be dependent, unlike the notion that you have to take something the rest your life. And i'm not saying IT has to be the rest alive. But when something works and as far as I can tell, very safe, I think I think it's worth discussing. And I I like people having those options.

at least here. That sounds like from the story just told us that it's not just about aesthetic change that motivates people to lean into other aspects of their health and life when they lose some weight. That is also just that the sheer literal weight and also that at opposed issue, fat tissue produces a lot of harmons that we know impact the brain and brain function, which is not to say that there are not people out.

There are a lot of add posed issues who aren't extremely bright and motivated at such a, but many people who are Carrying excess body fat don't feel good. They report brain fog, etta. And I think now thanks to Chris palmer and actually it's stand for there's also a programme in metrology psychiatry.

We're starting to see um or understand and appreciate the link between ata POS tissue and brain health or lack of brain health in most cases. sure. So in the in the case of G, L, P one, yeah people have criticized that, saying that a fair percentage of the weight that's lost is lean body mass muscle loss. But that seems to me that can be remedy pretty easily if people just do some resistance training.

I I think part of that yeah resistance idea that think I would say is remote. We've seen as when people using the conventional dosages um they're losing weight too quickly. And so what we do, we get both sam blue tide mostly to our appetite compounded.

And that allows us to use basically microdot ges and start very low in terms of dosage and go slowly with people. And what we found is as long as people are losing less two pounds or less a week, they're not losing the muscle mass. We certainly encourage adequate protein and take you resistance training.

But that microdot ing has been a game changer, like literally game changer because then people don't feel like um and i've seen that where when we started, people are losing fifteen pounds in three weeks. Goodness, right? And then they are like excited, but then they're knocks and they come off with IT and they just gain IT right back where they lose lot of weight.

They lose that back in their face and looked like skeleton. We ve seen this called asymptotic ACE that we don't like the way that looks and that, that takes a lot to come back. So if we just go slowly with this and we can really die IT in a new answer that has had a tremendous impact.

And now beyond the weight loss, you know, we're seeing a cognitive and benefits. We're seeing, you know inflation tion and and a lot of people with automatic disease who their inflation tion markers are coming down. And that's the only thing we can think is working.

Is that a direct effect of aseptic on the immune system and pathways related to information? Or is IT indirect through the loss of atop s tissue body fat, which then lower lower ers information? Great question.

Or or I could say, is that the positive thoughts that come from looking yourself in the man and feeling good, right, which tran sends to you feeling Better about yourself, and that feeds forward to the moment m that you put forth in the world all of those things. I think it's all of the above that's going be hard to dissect, but it's real. And I patient she's fifty.

SHE is how SHE modest thread data, meaning SHE attacks with the age SHE doesn't make enough thyristors ment. So SHE takes therre tormance with one of the chAllenges with that is they make a lot of firer and about is anybody called thread proxy body. And when you have an elevated theory proxy, anybody don't feel good, you feel and flame, you're joint heard, you get rashes.

Life is just not easy and it's a chAllenge to get that number down and certainly chAllenge ed for me know you traditionally use probiotics, a lot of things to help bolster the immune system when I was starting to use the G, L, P ones. And we're seeing that those anybody levels come down. And I I don't have a great way of explaining IT, but they're something going on that's very positive.

very interesting. I suppose moving from most widely known peptides are still fairly unknown to most people with the concept, but that's why you're here. You're changing that right now, but moving from things like G L P one to what I would probably call the second most popular peptide, the one that we're hearing more and more about all the time.

And that's bpc one five seven body protection compound one five seven yeah um which to my understand there are a lot of animal data, very few of any clinical studies on humans. great. But a lot of people now taking bpc in various forms.

What are some known uses for bpc? Let's just say within your clinic 是 and then we'll get around to the fact that bpc has， let's hope, temporary been taken off market um and what some of the alternatives are. But what is bpc? What instances where people have you found a useful for so many?

So I think bpc, for me, kind of the most utilized peptide that we've used. So we'd like to use BBC almost for every patient. IT is a very antipa mentor, right? And so just from a very general active you know most people walking around to adults, you know they're stiff their source, they get older, they work out.

We work with athletes of all levels. There's that element of inflation tion. Maybe they have some chronic disease, diabetes, heart disease, automobile disease, inflaming as paramount. We understand that.

And bpc, I you know observe with so many patients were talking thousands of thousands of patients where their implements map comes down so they feel Better. They're not a stiff, they're not a store. Their need doesn't hurt as much.

Their shoulders improved. So we've learned, you know, that we start with the dose, you know, based upon this, like you said, animal studies, which is conservative, make sure it's safe. And then we've seen over time that we can get to hire higher dosages and have even more an impact, you know.

And I think so for people understanding using bpc, we started with the door. So like five hundred micrograms a day, we've got up to five thousand microgrants today, you know. And we'd like a protocol five days on, two days off.

And that's been very helpful for a of things from post borrero, you know what? The pandemic had a lot of successful b PC to, again, you name and honestly, almost everyone I could think of particularly people are engaging more fitness related lives are working out more. I would argue that anyone who's working out on a regular basis BBC is gonna benefit.

It's gonna, you know, improve the implement matory status, but also helped recovery. And IT doesn't seem to be one of these agents. It's gonna detrimental like we were talking earlier, Robin, I for the start, like they found that people working out hard taking anti accidents, that there seems to be a negative consequence to that because you don't allow the body to kind of repair itself. I I don't think that's happening with bpc.

That's interesting because my understanding is also that part of the specific and general adaptation of exercises that is triggered by inflation tion yeah this is why indeed IT is true that doing ice bath, a really cold water immersion cold shower, seems fine, but cold water immersion in the, you know, four, eight hours after resistance training can limit some of the hypocrisy and strain gains from resistance training.

Because what you're inducing when you actually go into the gym is the that leads to the hyperon straight training is an inflation tion response, right? That triggers of the compensation or the hyper compensation. So um it's interesting you're saying that bpc by the way, I must say this because forgive the editorial but that is not to say that called plunges and cold emersion is bad is just in the hours following resistance training, specifically if for hybrid v and train training, if those are your goals, probably best to do IT outside of that window.

Other times IT has some tremens benefits. Be safe. But there okay, back to the topic at hand, forgive me, but this can set off a complicated storm of sorts if I if i'm not alter clear about the details um BBC one five, seven, strongly anti flam matory yes, minor standing. Is that also made up regularly .

growth home on sectors that works well? If you we get into taking a grow thorman releasing peptide, IT hears very well at that because you're working both sides of equation. Meaning if you're using a growth horn releasing peptide like sam and urban moron N G R P six, whatever, you're helping your pa put out more growth hormones. If you combine IT with the BBC, which are regulates the growth orman, after you make the process of growth ormon binding more efficient so you get more out of bit than you can use, less of the growth home released in peptide with the same result.

Got IT yeah bpc one five seven um comes many different forms or IT used to when I was when I was fda, not disallowed. So I could imagine how the oral forms would allow for a just general anti flaming response. It's a gut peptide so we don't have to worry about IT being destroyed by the gut.

Most peptides are going into the gut, are broken down and set. But this peptide, when it's naturally crowing, occurs in the gut. So I arrives in the gut. So if somebody is taking BBC one, five, seven orally through a capture tablet form, right, my guess is that has a general anti inflation tion response.

I think I can what we've observed this is more limited to the good. So people with any sort of issue, whether that's implementation about disease like crones, are all set of coats, you know, irritable bow, you named IT leaky got. I think oral bpc is more effective.

There has IT been shown to be effective for those conditions. Review of.

observe that clinically, certainly obtain that clinically. But interestingly, I have observed a Better clinical response from people inject IT, even for gasoline testino related things. So I think injected in then.

So people injecting sub q, which is right under the skin. We use the tiny st of needles, like an insular needle, thirty or thirty one gate. We're tacking super small. And so I know a lot of people, like i'm never .

injecting me is less painful than a then a texas mosquito.

But you super easy. You want to to do that once the choice is really easy. We want people how to do, how to do that.

But IT, interestingly, we started thinking, okay, if you've got something going on your guy, you should take oil BBC because it's going to target the right then. And I found over injecting IT actually worked Better than the oral and and then they came up a lot. If i've got an elbow injury shy injected in my elbow, we've found actually don't.

It's going to work systemically. You can inject IT in your active, in your and you're still gone to get benefit in your elbow, but now you're going to get benefit in all your joints, all of your body system. Ally.

how do you think that's working in my inner sin as bpc one five seven can initiate fiber blast migration some of the cells that make up the the various connective tissues that um when injured or so or other things can make us injured or sort of course but when injured sore that they those need repair so IT always was perplexing to me why one could put bpc one five seven and such a small volume under the skin, not just a few centered off the belly button and IT would somehow um seek out the the injury side in an elbow and a kills and there are all these wild anaconda es of know lower of let's just say there was this olympic athlete, not this last olympics, but the previous summer olympics that had a torna kills who came back a few weeks later and everyone was and meddled people we're talking about you took podium um that is and people time not be PC one seven there was kind of and you know that's just chatted and fog as they say but kind of wild the idea that you could just inject something systemically putting into the systemic circulation into the bloodstream and he would fare IT out the location in which the injure took place.

And initial en IT with the top stem cells. So they've taken stem cells, they've tagged them rather graphically. So you can see them in the study I read, which I can fine for you.

Someone had A A wristy broken rist, and they gave them intravenous ous stem cells. And twenty four hours later, when they visualized radiographically, those stem cells had aggregated at the site of the so there's a lot you know about our bodies. Obviously, we don't know that there's a kind of innate human like design and intelligence, which I believe in.

Um I see IT because we've done a lot of I V there be over the years and you you know it's interesting when you give intervene ously, you're getting in the bloodstream and you can feel some of these different compounds, which time about vitamin king within seconds and IT shows you how quickly things circulate. People don't understand that how quickly we move our circulation. It's massively fast.

One has ever gone into the hospital for a surgery and got a cold saline infusion. Yeah you realize how quickly IT hits your your toes. Know they are putting in in your house. Yeah, within a few seconds. IT also makes one appreciate how we're all generally a little bit dehydrated. When you start getting a real property, you feel yourself come to life in a way that this is what IT feels like to just the right amount of salt in my blood streams.

exactly. So going back to BBC, where I think it's shines is in these leggings intendance, right? I think this is where most of these injuries happen, is where muscle is connecting to the bone.

Um you know the people grow their muscle, but we don't stretch attendants and leg as well. And that's where we get pull, sometimes strained sprain and tearing. And I think that would be PC shine.

That certainly been studied in animal studies. And I know that because we can inject IT directly in attendance, which is unlike stereos, we would never inject steroids into attending. You damage the attendant BBC. We makes the things like P R P, P R F, which is play the rich. I were a little bit different pop, and you get healing within days like it's awesome while super save and its amazing .

for people. BBC is definitely short hand for BBC one five seven. That is, is certainly in widespread use. I have been concerned just personally about great market sources, but that contain contaminants and the fact that many people are obtaining bpc, one, five, seven, not from a physician, not from a compounded pharmacy, but just on the internet.

Your physician, i'm guessing that until the recent ban by the fda, you were able to prescribe clean bpc. Is IT where yeah what's the story with bpc now? And maybe we can talk about grain market 是 versus a prescribed and made IT， a compounding pharmacy versus uh pharmaceutical company, uh, pharmaceutical.

So and then of course, there is black market delicious. Leave that out. There are people are to tell you, hey, this is bpc and that's obviously bad and dangerous.

But we see that with the animal stories, right? The animal stories are on the black market. You can't really mean there's one animal x steric, which is nanda alone, which is data which can be officially prescribed.

We use IT combined with testosterone only up and up totally above table. The rest things like trembling, others you you can get them from a position impact. You'd very hard to get him from a reputable website in states.

So as we're here by andersen is a decade balin and testoon cip na can be prescribed or just to turn in name fate, things like that by physicians that that's because it's been fda approved for the treatment of various things hypocras le syndrome replacement therapy, both men and women, right? So categories of testosterone like compounds right similate and date and decades in which is basically like is IT similar to dht?

Is that a little bit? Yeah I mean, it's the generic games. Is the Andrea lan? yes. I mean, that has the flavor of helping with joints.

I think IT works energetically with things like test, stand different, know whether the tests and eighty eight and and i'd like IT for people who pretty large people been on testosterone, men who ve been on testoon replacement for a long time, which is many men um they tend to get less out a test after and becomes less potent like anything, right? If you use something a long time, you're going to get less out of IT over time. Anything you expose your su B2Continually doe sn't wor k as wel l.

Um and so you know like to make this really, really a patient who was a in the marines and served a secret service for several White houses and he had a lot of know osteoporosis, osteopenia, a bone loss and you know, this is what I learned about using something like nanga one because we combine Angelo m with testoon IT changed his life guy in his eighties who is how do you use a cane, who had came back to live, who started, you know, becoming super mobile and working out again. And synergics, I think IT works really well. Not to get too far off topic.

but it's interesting and I think not a brief editorial for me, if if I may. Um you mention this patient was in their eighties. I think nowadays, fortunately, a lot of Younger males in particular, guys in their cash, even teens but twenty years and thirties, minority forties, think that they need to look to synthetic to aston in order to.

Look a certain way um performers certain way um in the gym, the beto it's set and i'll go on record again and again and again saying that it's absolutely not necessary for most people of those ages provided that they um are taking good care to sleep well, eat well, take care now. But I I realized that there are a growing number of use cases where people, for whatever reason, are able to recover from exercise. They're struggling. This is a little bit like the OEM c conversation, right where that there are things that can help move the needle in the right direction intended um but here with testosterone es since synthetic to strong and deco, there's a real concern about loss of fertility.

totally. I think IT brings up a larger point which is and obviously unbiased, but I think it's super helpful for people to have a physician help them in this course, particularly with testosterone. An IT is just known that people get IT from their trainers, their brows, from the gym, right? Who were saying, oh, you got to use. I mean, I have so many patients who were started using testosterone .

and their late teens early twenty years. Goodness.

yeah. I mean, not goodness, meaning badness. So and you know one in particularly this is probably ten years ago, came to see me twenty five.

He got married. And to your point, he said, i'm ready. Have kids, I have zero sperm left, right? And that's a real thing.

And so he had been using, and I would say, abusing the testosterone growth on for years. Nobody, he told me, was, and I get IT. He was superman.

He could wake up to a hard workout, you know, crush IT, wake up the next morning, was not sort crushed again, and just kept going up, going with super fit, super happy in that regard, how he looked, how I felt, how I performed. But then he got to a point with a little bit wise or mature. And he was like, oh my goodness, now is a repercussion for this.

And i've seen that time, time again. And the repercussion is big. You're not making any of the sperm quality super poor.

Now what do you do when I got to come off to rebuild your system, which we can do? You know, we can use things like columbine and mine, H, C, G, lots of different agents to help in that regard. Even certain peptides.

But I think IT brings up the large point even getting into peptides, which is having a physician who is knowledgeable to me is super helpful. The chinese for people is they don't know where to get the right information right. And they're getting IT from websites.

They're getting IT from people say, oh, just try this peptide. And i've had lots of people talking about, you know, websites, whatever, not to name any names who have had anthrax reactions to research type peptides, which are not for human consumption. And i'm not saying that there are bad companies are whatever. You just got to be careful yeah, you got to be selective .

at least what brought us on to the a conversation about testosterone was this black market issue. There's also what I would call this um dark, dark gray market issue, which is that there are a number of companies that will sell all sorts of things, but peptides in particular and listed on their website still say not for human or animal consumption for research purposes only.

And one of the major issues is that the um potency and cleanly, so to speak, of a purity of those compounds night established and many of them have O P S. Lippi sacking them, which is inflammatory. And earlier, before we start recording, you mentioned um that you have heard of or interacted with not your patients, but people have come to you saying that they had like really serious life threatening consequences for using these black market certainly, but dark grain market yes .

peptides. And and to tell the the story further is back in october of twenty twenty three, the fda put many peptides bpc, we can name him out on what's called a category to list, meaning they are no longer allowed to be compounded right now that excludes the research companies who are not under the preview of the fda. But these compounding pharmacies, it's been a huge blow because they've been told they cannot use these .

agents and the compounding pharmacies are distinct from these other black and dark gray sources um in that they actually can establish purity. They are designed to be injected into humans and they have a totally different standard.

right? So they and I think it's confusing for people hear compound macy, they are friends. They're not friends.

Fda regulator, the birth of arma y regulator in every state. They are monitored. They are inspected all the time. I've worked with compounding pharmacies my whole career, which is going on you know, close to twenty five years now. Just like anything, there is some amazing compounding primacy and there's some not so amazing compounding pharmacies which cut corners. The ones we work with don't cut any corners.

And I know that because they are inspected all the time, right, and it's a big deal to them, and they want to do IT right with purity, with processing and making sure that anything they make, especially sterol compound, which is going to be anything injected, you, I drop things you injected in yourself, where's iv secure intra muscular t considered sterol? Um they have to then be tested by an outside lab to make sure purity, make sure there's no other toxins, things like that. It's highly regulated and it's a big deal for them and it's a big deal for the physician who you know prescribe with them, which I appreciate because the advantage of companies armas y, we can tweak the dosage.

We don't have to use the standards set dosage. We can combine things synergistically to get in a one plus one does equal to now equals four. And that to me as a huge advantage, like we are talking about the G, L P, one simple title appetite, we get those compounded so that know we have, uh, the compounding pharmacy we're using now. We're making a unique combination of the appetite summer on right, which will address some of this muscle laws that people getting so we can combine .

the line up to stim growth hormone released, offset some of the muscle laws from exactly to read yeah yeah and and see.

you can do things like that with a compounding formaly bit again, just to make sure people understand compounding pharmacies are highly regulated, highly regulated um again, there's always going to be bad apples. But uh you know physicians do you know how to work with compounding primacy, I think provide access to things that these conventional both pharmaceuticals and conventional pharmacies can't.

I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge sponsor ag one. AJ one is a vitamin mineral probiotic icc drink that also include probiotics and adaptations. Ag one is designed to cover all of your foundational nutritional needs.

And IT tastes great. Now i've been drinking A G once since two thousand and twelve, and I started doing that at a time where my budget for supplements was really limited. In fact, I only had enough money back then to purchase one supplement.

And i'm so glad that I made that supplement. Ag one. The reason for that is, even though I strive to eat most of my foods from whole foods and minimally process food, it's very difficult for me to get enough fruits, vegetables, vitamines and minerals, micro nutrients ended APP tions from alone.

And I need to do that in order to ensure that I have enough energy throughout the day, I sleep well at night and keep my immunity stem strong. But when I take ag one daily, I find that all aspects of my health, my physical health, my mental health and my performance with cognitive and physical are Better. I know that because i've had lapses when I didn't take A G one, and I certainly felt the difference.

I also noticed, and this makes perfect sense, given the relationship between the gut microbes and the brain, that when I regularly take A G one, which for me means are serving in the morning or mid morning and again later in the afternoon or evening, that I have more mental clarity and more mental energy. If you'd like to try ag one, you can go to drink A G one dot com slash huberman to claim a special offer. Right now, they're giving away five free travel packs in a year, supply of vitamin d 3k two， again, that drink A G one duck com slash huberman en to claim that special offer. So is IT fair to say that if one is interested in expLoring the use of peptides for what you refer to as performance medicine yes um mental physical health and performance yeah um falls underly that to essentially only put peptides into their body may be even on their body surface that they're obtaining from a physician who's obtained the petites from a compounding pharmacy .

ah and whose developing in relationships of we for any peptides that we use, we meet with the patient, we make sure there are good fit, we make sure that there's no counter indications we also can recommend and specifically dialed up or down whatever IT is come up with.

This is what we think you should use based upon your life experience, the medicine you're taking or not taking, the conditions you're treating or not treating, right? I think that's really important. And i'm bias being a physician.

My whole goals to get to know patients, that's why i'm here is to kind of walk that walk and help people in that regard. And you know if someone's out there on the internet doing themselves there, they're walking in, you know know on their own. And so you not to make IT like everything bad is gonna en. But when you when you have help with someone who has experience that goes a long way, I think particularly .

with something like this, yeah I agree and and IT worries me very much that people are buying ppc from um gray dark gray market or black market sources. Anything that says on IT not for animal or human use for research purposes only, you can be much guarantee. The end talks in the lippi sacre at least has not been removed.

That could be really problematic because but SHE, since a minor standing, is that I can be cumulative over time. It's not that one injection causes somebody to go to end of flag shocks, that some of this L P S can build up a an inflammatory ory response over time. And then you don't know where the tipping point is, and then somebody can have a really terrible reaction one and taking.

is that further getting away from just peptide? But then I remember this was, I don't know, fifteen years ago, someone was taking advice from a very famous doctor on T. V.

About taking an oral compound to lose way. And they called me up and they said, i'm having terrible headaches, terrible heads for days. They came in. Their blood pressure was through the roof. You know, like I remember the specific numbers, but lets to say two over one forty and Normally it's one twenty eighty.

Or did you take anything different? Yeah, this doctor recommended I take this weight loss compound, right? So the problem is that people have access to all this information, but if they're not under the guidance of a doctor to help clean up the mess, we clean up the mass.

And not that there's always mess, but this is what we enjoy doing, you know, is as a physician, like we've seen the darkest to dark, you know, we are able to help people when things don't go perfectly planned. And I think that's a big deal. And particularly when there's lots of these tools and they're exciting tools and their great tools. And um fortunate for me, i've been in the space longer than most that I just know built up a large repeatable experience of observing people, working people on saying we got to tweet this, we're got a new insist or sometimes we know everyone to use this again. You know this is not for most people.

So given that bpc one five seven has been effectively removed from the legitimate market ah what are people's alternatives? Again, working with the the caveat that um people should work with a physician yeah where can physicians get something similar enough to be .

PC one five seven so there's a new compound, newer uh pepi kb uh the short for P D A pana deca argent. It's basically the same molecular structure as bpc except they've swapped out an acid ate for one .

of inactive .

suspect tion, one of minister substitution. And so we're using that having really good results. I certainly it's early in the game of using pda, but IT seems very close to BBC in the clinical responses we're getting from our patients.

Were reporting back decrease and information, all these wonderful things that we used to see with BBC. So and I think, uh, I surmise that this is going how is going to be with all of these peptides, right? Because again, peptides are just changed the assets.

You know, certainly a lot of people smarter than me trying to figure out how do we then create other types of a minor asic combinations, ie peptides, that do similar actions to bpc, that an offer to IT around to tp five hundred on and on and on. So i'm hopeful that regard. And and I also know some my patients work at the very highest level of the us.

government. They are well aware of this and who have assured me they're going to look at this that this is serious, you know because they've ve been using peptides and they're concerned that, oh, my goodness, sy, fda came in and changed the game. There has been a huge setback.

All of us I definitely want to circle back as to what the motivation was by the fda for doing that. Yeah at some point you think in the meantime, however, think there's a lot of interest in BBC one, five, seven, lot of use of bpc, one, five, seven sources of B, P, C, one, five, seven or now drawing up. yes.

And that's why i'm personally concerned that people start going to the dark grey market in black market. I'm excited about the a pentagon A R gene yes. Um so let's put that on people's um your map um a ring map pental deco ordinate may be a good physician prescribe bed substitution for people that can benefit from bpc one service and good starting does so to make a .

really clear for people helpful two hundred and fifty micrograms of five hundred micrograms. We're using five hundred micrograms injected daily. Again, we like monday through friday.

Take the weekends off. That's a good dosing schedule. I'll see how that go. We probably can use larger dosage. That's a conservative, but that's a good starting point for people.

And thus far, you haven't mentioned any side effects of bpc one in five, seven, one pented. Dec, arguing that's kind of remarkable.

It's been tremendous. Yeah, we were using bpc intravenous ously as well. You know patients would come in and you oh tweet my knee, tour my acl to my you know minus whatever. Um you can give them bpc essentially as a bolas intravenously.

My goodness, that made a difference now that using something intervene ously from the farmer co connect test point I got last in the system, very more of a Spark, words of use and agents, subcutaneous sly, you're going to get more of a long lasting, you get not terribly long lasting with peptides, but longer than using something intervened. Sly, kind of the sweet bi, was certainly using both. We could use something as a Spark to initiate that, an implement mentally cascine, then follow up with the subcutaneous dose.

Yeah and even though earlier we were talking a little bit about um some hormone replacement therapies. P um before that off microphone, um you mention that you prefer petites to direct formal manipulations in most cases. So I think um while peptides can be hormones, there are things like oxy token is sometimes called the in general, when people think about hormone therapies, they're thinking to stop drone estrogen crying alone at sea IT IT sounds to me like much of your practices built up around the the notion that there are things that one can use peptides to kind of on pushing pull on these various systems without getting into them directly. My understanding is the advantage of that don't get the negative feedback, you don't get the shuttle down of .

natural production. Yeah, you know, it's a great example because like we were saying, I don't ever want to manipulate hormones, grow horns. Another example, I don't never want to manipulate that.

Meaning providing IT to people and more than they would get in nature, is why I actually don't a little bit of topic like when people use testoon pellets or any sort of pellet therapy because you're exposing people to a concentration performance we would never, ever see in nature. I would prefer people inject IT where you're going to get some variation and dose on a data basis, which were humans. So we do get some data variation or topically under the tongs or something, peptide de something.

I don't want to manipulate the hormones, right? I want to just stick with kind of the highways of the lane swimmed es for how they should Operate and and then take advantage of that. And that's been a safe way to do IT as opposed to and i've seen IT talking about another peptide, which is ibero on a growth armer releasing peptide apple moran injected under the skin travels up to the petite tary the poster repetita in the brain, which is responsible for putting out growth hormones.

That growth hormones and leaves the petitoners the bloodstream travels to deliver where we make instance, like growth factor one, which then enders, the circulation is very anibal's c meaning growth healing, mending. You know, as we get older, we make less growth ormon. As we get older, we wear down. Obviously, we get you know, degenerate conditions. Part of that, I don't know what part of everyone little bit different is because of our hormones and decline. And so when you can give something like IT moron, and we talk about others, you actually helping not only push out a little bit of growth hormone for people we are directing when you push IT out, right, we think so it's important for people to be a sleep by ten P M, between ten P M in two A M, because even got to the largest pulls of growth or during the twenty four hour period.

Is that right? Is so I long wondered whether not the the tail I was told when I was growing up, which is that every hour before midnight is where two hours of sleep post midnight um that feels true to me um then again feels true is is often misleading but feels true to me. But IT makes perfect sense if if that the largest pulls on growth ormond is occurring in the in the a couple of .

hours before midnight ah mean that that's how I learned to agree with IT feels true to me as well. But taking advantage that you know injecting something like a promotion at bad time, then you're going you know within a few minutes and with the problem and interesting because people will get a little flushing tingling at times.

Um and what i've seen with the point of making is uh, there are some physicians and some pharmacy es which you know dosage of the profound and most these growth on releasing people try to be a hundred micrograms. That's the max dose for to bind the receptor. And you know what i've seen is with IT Brown rare, but some people do get entity access and it's happened and I think that happens when people are pushing IT and giving more than they should. And i've heard of that they're giving two hundred, three hundred, four hundred micrograms at a time, which is a big dose. Now what you're getting is the client, the patients like, oh my god sh, I feel this amazing flushing IT must be working then you could spiral into, oh my goodness, I don't feel good, so good in your circulation system .

collapsing so yeah, using side effects as as a indicator of something working just seems like a terrible idea.

But I very common. Yeah, I tend to be very .

conservative about these things. And by the way, i've tried various peptides for short periods of time because I like to experiment very safely and some things like server and we'll talk about other growth amounts to created gogs for me for whatever reason, you've gave me great sleep, but only in the first part that I had kicked my rabon I movement see in the second half and I Spike my protect specific anted.

I was a very consistent if I off IT and I went back down and I went back on, I went back up and so I just found I couldn't take IT yeah and I didn't take me very long to figure that out. But I know that there are some people who love server and and don't see any of the same issues. So IT seems like you can be very individual.

I agree with, I agree with that. And that's why I think it's again helpful to work with a physician who has experience, who can you know, I think of these peptides is having flavors, particularly the growth on released in peptides imperor on very clean. You know, as longer you stay within one hundred microns or less, people going to lean out a little bit, sleep a little bit Better is real side effects.

So they take IT press leeper sleep at the time without copper hydrates in justo in the previous two hours.

Yeah forty five minutes. Technology but that's right. And then there's saying like growth were released pp by six PHP six, which is also going to buy. So I think of IT premium being the most specific for the growth home and reception, but the weak test.

So when you inject IT, you will get growth orman to come out and only growth hormones, but it's not going to be a big burst of growth. You inject T H R P six now. You may buy some projector.

now. You may buy some A C, T H, which is going to have your dream put out quarters on. Now you're going to a get a hunger response, right? And maybe even have trouble sleeping if you have trouble sleeping.

But where that's beneficial force, if you're looking to put on math or get strong G H R P six is you go to right, because you will increase your appetite. And if you're smart, you'll lead a lot more protein and the building of muscles not necessarily complicated, right? It's resistant training, sufficient protein, which is where I think most people fall off.

And then having some anabel c kind of hormones in the background, like growth hormonal test about helps that process that through G H R P six in shine. I mean, within weeks, people get big and strong, increase their bench, press whatever stuff flad out works. But you've got to know how to use IT and and understand the flavors, the point of making these different patches of different flavors. And to your point, there's individual responses that, that can be a good thing.

I think for most of our audience, the interesting growth hormones secreted gog's proudly ly relates to the Better sleep and the overall feelings of vitality. And probably most people are seeking to not Spike their appetite or put on muscle. Really, these says we're hearing more and more from people, both men and women, who want to be strong without being big yeah.

And they prefer to be lean as of us do not lean, which I think is a great goal. Frankly, that's my goal. This stage of life.

I just turned forty ninety yesterday and I really thank you. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for to the birthday.

Yeah, of many batched. The other day was a lot of fun. I yeah, I want to be strong and capable.

I also want to be able to run and have cardiovascular fitness ness, but I don't want to be large. I want to take up a lot of space. I'm not interested a lot of space.

And I think most people found category. So if G H R P six can Spike appetite, which for a subset of people might be useful um but probably most people will avoid immoral. And i've always been calling IP morale. But IPO land at one hundred micrograms um dosage or less per night sounds like it's an interesting tool. What are some of the other growth hormones are created gog's? And I should just brief all of take the liberty of the define these these are peptides that stimulate the release of your own indulgin ous growth hormone.

This is not taking growth horn yes yeah um two other main months that we use, one would be testing moran, which is similar to severan and that IT also is going to work on the growth hormone releasing hormone aspect a little bit hier up in the chain of how these ormonds are released. So both semon and test on um you you don't necessary need to add anything else to IT. Classically with immersion hacks on G R P six, we would add this other compounds C J C one, two, nine, five which is going to work on the G H R H which allows the peptide, and then the growth home and sustain your system .

a little bit longer. The growth ormon releasing hormone, right? We can almost set aside C, J, C now, because C, G, A, C, once to nine, five, the F, D, A just came in.

And one that, lets just say one, acronis took out another, F, D, A, took out C, J, C, O, K, B, C, N, B, P, C. Um people are probably a little dizen with these acronyms, but I think we doing a good job of guiding people along. So server oon and team are similar enough, similar that regard. Test around, again.

talking about flavors, test around works on this error at reductions of fat around the organs.

And it's been F D A approved for that .

purpose with HIV patients having this liberty strophe, which is you abNormal cumulation of fat and particular visual fat round organs. So testa one works well for that. My observation from using IT for lots and lots people seems to work Better than females and males.

Or does IT lead to this feeling of enhanced sleep as well? yes. So I think any of .

the growth hormone releasing that is any time you're going to make growth hormone active in your world. That's how I think about IT. Better sleep, Better skin, town, texture, write your more resilience.

I think growth ormon is a resiliency, hormones, durability. You know, people find that I do a hard work out IT takes me days to recover. I spring my angle, takes me a week to recover.

I cut my skin, takes me forever to heal. They've got a durability issue. And that's how I think about where growth hormones can shine. Not that you got to go all away a growth hormone, but these peptides can be .

a really nice push. And this is taken before falsely no food within forty five minutes of the injection.

And then then kind of the magic. And what we do is, when we first started, about eight years ago, we use one peddle at a time. And then what we learned is let's combine these peptides, let's stack petites.

And that's how we do at lower dosages.

sometimes lower dosages. But for example, we had a great combination, bpc IPO one and test one altogether, taking a bedtime, and you're going to get subcutaneous at reduction from the improper on disco, fat reduction from the test meron up regulation. The growth.

Homer reception from the bpc was a wonderful pattie. We kind of labeled IT is a fat loss pattie. But people would put on the muscle mass.

They sleep Better. The skin will be Better, they be more durable. That thought process would be Better.

Awesome stuff. And and that's where I think that's where we enjoy IT is stacking these pet tites together. So it's not again, just one peptide time but able to do IT.

And that's why again, working with the compound pharmacy, we can put these togethers. You're only doing one shot today. You may be doing three to seven peptides, but is still .

one shot got IT in um if one is combining a tasmanian or so marian marland and well, not bpc anymore, but pental deca urgent instead because you can't get bpc one, five, seven compounded. Um is that done every night? Five days a week, three days a week. What's the rationality of this? Five days on two?

Five days on, two days off. I came up with because of how we would dose growth hormones, the traditional growth orman dosing cycle would be five days on, two days off, taking a bad time. yeah.

And that's where I came up. And then I I personally, with patients in myself, i'd like to take breaks. So even with supplements, I won't take him on the weekends, right? Because I think you again, anything you expose yourself to on a very basis is going to decrease the potency.

We see that with excise. We see that with food defeating in the same food every day seems to become less valuable for you, right? Like change IT up, like we have to throw on the crazy, which ever now and then, but change IT up. And so then you're gonna make IT more pot for you. I do the same thing with open to say that, you know, just resonates with me, with people to take a break from stuff.

I'd like to take a quick break and think one of our sponsors function. I recently became a function member after searching for the most comprehensive approach to lab testing. While i've long been a fan of blood testing, I really want to find a more in debt program for blood.

You're an insolvent to get a full picture of my heart health, my hormones status, my immune system regulation, my meta lic function, my vitamin and mineral status, and other critical areas of my overall health and vitality function not only provides testing of over one hundred biomarkers key to physical and mental health, but IT also analyzes these results and provides insights from talk doctors on your results. For example, in one of my first tests with function, I learned that I had two high levels of mercury in my blood. This was totally surprising to me.

I no idea prior to taking the test function, not only help me detect this, but offered medical doctor informed insights on how to best reduce those mercury levels, which included limiting my tuna consumption because I ve been needing a lot of tuna while also making an effort to eat more leafy Greens and supplementing with neck and a system, both of which can support gratify on production and detoxification, and worked to reduce my mercury levels. Comprehensive lab testing like this is so important for health. And while i've been doing this for years, i've always found him to be always complicated and expensive.

I've been so impressed by function, both at the level of ease of use that is getting the test done, as well as how comprehensive and how actionable the tests are that I recently joined their advisory board, and i'm thrilled that they are sponsor in the podcast. If you'd like to try function, go to function health dot com. Slash huberman functioning currently has a weight list of over two hundred and fifty thousand people, but they're offering early access to huberman lab listeners.

Again, that's function health dotcoms slash huberman to get early access to function. Today's episode also brought to us by eight sleep. Eight sleep make smart matches covers with cooling, heating and sleep tracking capacity.

I ve spoken many times before in this podcast about the critical need for us to get additional amount of quality sleeping tonight. That's truly the foundation of all mental health, physical health and performance. And one of the best ways to ensure that you get a great nights left is to control the temperature of your sleeping environment.

And that's because in order to fall and stay deeply asleep, your body temperature actually has to drop by about one to three degrees. And in order to wake up feeling refreshing, energize, your body temp ure actually has to increase about one to three degrees. Eight sleep makes IT incredibly easy to control the temperature of your sleeping environment by allowing you to control the temperature of your mattress cover at the beginning, middle and end of the night.

I've been slept on the nasty matters cover for nearly four years now, and IT is completely transformed and improve the in my sleep. Eight sleep is now launched. The newest generation of the pod cover the pod for ultra.

The pod for ultra has improved cooling and heating capacity, higher fidelity sleep tracking technology, and even has snowing detection that will automatically lift your head a few degrees to improve your airflow and stop your snoring. If you'd like to try and ate sleep matters cover, go to eight sleep dot com slash huberman en to save up to three hundred and fifty dollars off their pod for ultra eight sleep. Currently ships in the U.

S. A, canada, U. K. Select countries in the E.

U. In australia. Again, that sleep, that com slash huberman. Before we start recording, you mention that you're actually not a huge fan of taking massive amounts of supplements, that you are a big fan of taking cock.

Yo, ten twins, M, Q, ten, two hundred milligrams per day in the morning. I also take coche ten um I think I started taking IT for general medical, real health. I don't know that I thought very carefully about exactly what I was trying to accomplish um but what is the rational taking cock yo ten? So if I break IT down.

try to keep IT simple. People are from money with the minto country. That s the battery of the cell, these little organ's inside each cell.

Um and they're responsible for you doing many things, but primarily making ATP chemical energy. And so how do we make energy? Well, there's three main ways the bodies uses IT, right? Or makes IT. First is quite callis. We take lucas, which is a six carbon molecule.

We break IT in half to make two pie riva es, right? That when we do that, we make a little bit of atp that by rubi then is converted something called a seal coa. We run that through the creb cycle where we're also making A T people, where they we're making these inter mediate products, one of those intermediate products in the main monitor, they called N A D H.

That N D H is then shuttle to the mighty membrane for, you know, this is the magic where we make the most atp in their Spike, different hubs or we call sider crimes, right? I think about IT is just like to simplify side chrome one is where we use naad. And um what what the different hubs are doing is we're exchanging electrons for protons and that's a kind of an electrical process.

We're changing electrons for protons going down in assembly line to eventually turn this wheel. The eighty pace will to make at the way I understand IT is the five different hubs, different nutrient hit them. So ca, crime.

One is nd, sia, chrome. Two is ribble, flavin, biotin and sexy acid catchum. Three is cocky, ten by them in k, two catches me. Four is method blue, we can talk about. And then site, chrome vivo, things like my nesik vitamin in in copper. So if you're thinking about mini contro health, if you include any or Better all of those, you're gonna maximize how your mini country can work to make energy. It's the strongest way to do IT, and it's again, not necessary complicated.

So when I think of coco ten and again, we use a lot of any which we can talk about, where I think most people the traffic congestion happens inside the crown one, right? And so when we give people up, regulate their nd production, it's essentially we're allowing for a more electron flow outside of crime wine, which has a downstream effect on the other side of chrome. So the traffic jam opens up and now you can move electronics exchange for proteins to make way more ATP.

And if you're but that's not true for everyone. And so some people that could be at side to crime three with coco tan IT could be at site crime two lot of people set chrome for, which is again, cid crime, we call sea crime c oxy wear method in blue bines. But that is a simplistic view.

We just people we run into traffic jams, right? These electron flow gets stuck. We're just trying to open up .

the traffic jam. So two hundred milligrams a day of coin sq. Ten can be can facilitate some of that.

sure. yes. And cookie tan's man study, very save up to twenty four hundred milgram a day. No harmful, yes, no harmful of facts. Sometimes i'll take more. I will tell you earlier, it's been dramatic for me with my grain headaches basically reducing them to zero.

You know, people are hearing this, are probably thinking, okay, well, is just, you know, this is what I call antic data or whatever. I you know, I don't have to remind people that you're board certified physician. I think that still ringing in the back of my mind, this entire conversation, even i'm very careful attention, is that most of the drugs they are prescribe bed in this country are off label.

Yeah, I think I just like I don't think i've ever heard that stated out loud. It's wild. Yes, right.

So the idea that people would take something that wasn't i'm shown in A A clinical trial to be affected for purpose. A, that they would, but IT gets that IT gets approved for purpose. Sa, yeah, then can be prescribed ed by doctors for purpose.

B, C, D, E. I mean, you're not tear me. This is commonplace. You're telling this is the majority of the majority of drug.

But that makes sense if you think about, right, if you took an antibiotic, right, like we can, an anio tics can be very specific what IT gets approved for in terms of like working against a specific bacteria. But then through clinical use and just experience, you know, we learned that oh I can use doxy cycle in or A Z pack as its nice and or whatever IT is for a variety of accurate actions that extend well beyond just with, but that makes sense.

And and does that ever cycle back to the uh clinical trials or or know that this becomes physician understanding in lower like, hey, eli, i've got patients. They get on on as this promising and there are actually clear. But by the way, i'm not saying that folks, i'm not a physician but for instance.

exactly what happened with semi glue das empty right, but prove for helping glucose utils ation or lowering in black lucent patients were typed red abeles and they found through use only people are losing weight and now it's become a black bus. It's and we see IT with you know things like you know repurposing drugs for cancer, right? There's there's a lot of that going on, a lot of the repurposing.

So in your doxycycline, a very common one that you used in cancer therapies, I think by sophisticated oncologist, I don't treat cancer, but by sophisticated oncologists to use things like doxy, cycling, net form and but then is all which is an anti parasitic drug right um to help with cancer. That's amazing. So .

interesting IT is amazing. I think also um you know i'm reminded that you know medicine as beautiful I feel as IT is a tremendous respect for IT. Of course, IT is a field of a fairly silos training um and I love the idea that now thanks to public education efforts like this one um that you providing us that physicians learn from each other in a much broader way and can potentially hear about what drugs can be useful for this for that the other thing um and this is not editorial, this is this is a real uh, observation.

Pharmacy ticals companies are very interested in the other uses, have already approved drugs, 是 the research and development process for a drug， the safety of evaluation is incredibly expensive, so they want nothing more than to take a drug that already been approved for one purpose and to take that already safety approved drug and find other uses. How are they not circling back to the a off label uh use and understanding of these compounds and um and then essenic marketing them for these other purposes? Or I guess with olympic.

that's exactly what happened that to happen. The example, I mean, again, I I write prescriptions. I think there's a time in place. I think it's chAllenging for me though, right? I think for a lot of physicians, it's become chAllenging Operating in a paradise when we talk about chronic disease, which is essentially fAiling. I mean and we all know this specially, we're not making huge dense and heart disease, cancer, automated disease or disease.

We're not at all but we're spending exorbitant counts of money right um and this is you know something that I had to learn over time and I don't know how I got into bo when I started my practice back in two thousand and six, I started IT was traditional family medicine practice, but I started using these nutritional ibs. And but this is before hangover b is as popular, this is a twenty years ago. And what I learned was that these nutritionists help people feel Better quickly.

And I developed this model for my patients, which I think is a Better model, which is I want to help people feel Better first, like we are talking about earlier, this pocket, because if I can get people to feel Better, what what we learn through covet. And honestly, what I want to say to you, Andrew, which is really true, your podcast and what you do has been so successful at a time during the pandemic when people lost so much trust and people like me, right? People lost that trust of what do I do, you know, my heart.

This is a scary time. I don't know what's going on. And you guys come along, you in particular, providing this very stable, beated information that people can trust and have a starting point. Be like, this is what I want to do because health, one of the gifts of code, was that put our health on the forefront of most people's mind and life. And and so what you're doing is tremendous work.

And I can tell you personally, no, literally like as a physician, I am just it's it's such an honor to be here and to talk to you because every day, every day, my patients come to me and said, I heard this on the ever in my poncet. What do you think of IT and and I am not joking, and I love that. I think this is awesome because people were taking their head seriously.

But too, they have a stable resource that they can trust the problem with physicians. And and I try this back in is physicians are hard to trust, right? And it's this pretty alister model, which is, and that's how I was strained, which is, you know, you're going to do this because i'm going to tell you to do IT, right? And I remember being in medical school, which was in the nineties, and I can't remember the exact specifics of the study, but they would go.

They did a study where they collected the trash outside of physicians offices, found that greater than thirty percent of prescriptions written, that they were throw away, greater than thirty percent. wow. And and I remember learning that now, like what is going .

on by the patients?

Ts, curtly, like you came to the doctor because you wanted a prescription, right? No, you came to the door because you won't feeling good. You came to the dog because you wants to be listen to.

You came to the doctor because you wants to be validated. And most of the time, and this still happened to today, the vast majority doctors will just write your prescription or they write you to prescriptions. And that's not what most people want.

Sometimes IT is, and I do IT, and sometimes IT is, but there are so any other tools that we can use. And so when I help people feel Better, first, what I, why I ve been successful, and I work with the people on this planet, whether the athletes, the best athletes, celebrities, the royal family, you name IT. And so privilege, it's because they trust me.

And that trust is really important. I take that really seriously. You know I mean and so you know tying IT back in is we've lost a lot of that with the pandemic.

It's actually come to the forefront. And so that's why I want to help people feel Better first into the traditional model. Medicine is is get a diagnosis ready prescription. If that prescription does n't work ready, another prescription.

And so yes, there's a time in place for that, but there's also time in place for just helping people IT only works when people value themselves enough like we're like like I can take us back to weight loss, right? Why do people have such trouble losing way? I would argue that most people don't value themselves enough to actually care, are enough to make the hard disciplinary choices in their life, to get away from emotionally and eating, you know, I mean, to do the right things, that they actually, it's gna be a struggle to get the right food for themselves, get away from process foods, to be disciplined, to go to the gym on a regular basis. They don't have the right people that they trust. This is where you've been such a gift.

tremendous gift. Thank you for the kind words I mean the the birth of the podcast did take place during the pandemic and um in large far because I saw everybody getting very anxious, their circadian rythm disrupt ted and those were focuses on my laboratory an and Frankly, when I was a post stock and graduate student but especially I got a little older in my years um I couldn't believe that I was reading these papers about how important morning sunlight is and all these things but then my colleagues were all getting sick dying around me or getting what we call the tenured look yeah where they show up, you know, start their job five years later, they look like the age twenty five years.

And I realized that I I wanted to avoid that. So i've always just enjoyed learning and sharing science and health tools. And so thank you for the the kind words i've i've certainly um been um kind of both astonished and positively amazed in the ways that the pandemic and the post pandemic years, I like to think we're in the post pandemic years.

I think we can safely say that now how they've drawn people's attention to this idea, that they need to take agency into their own health care, that no what no one, no pillow portion injection is that a can replace good behaviors. Pills, positions and injections can potentially augment those good behaviors and get people going down the right path, which is what we're talking about today. But that it's a it's really a personal responsibility.

I mean, no one can give us a common mind. No one can give us a healthier body. No, no one can do that, right? You can hit it's interesting that some of the wealthiest people in the world, the new thing isn't for people to post about their their yachts or their properties. It's about their health is what their vitality, their their langevin because that's the thing that I suppose in some sense, money can start to buy, but IT doesn't require a ton of funds to take great care of one's one's body in mind.

IT doesn't what i've learned and i've had to learn this over time. And I think the wisdom is, is and this is why it's it's even more chAllenging because I think people you know go on social media, they listen to podcast and they listen to influences. A lot of the messages is additive, right? If you're not doing a high intensity workout every day and then doing, for example, t time and then cold plunge in all this kinds dieting, you're not doing IT well.

I know that that is that stress of that is cumulative to people, and right? And so what i've learned and have a really good friend, probably the most, you know, affluent, is successful, but also the most generous since most person I know, he lives on the big island in, he says to me, which is worth repeating here, I look for every opportunity to surrender and IT. Is that surrender to people who you can trust to guide you, right? So you don't have to be at the quarterback of everything, right? And that takes off the pressure.

And I think finding it's not always about adding it's it's actually creating space for us to just be in that flow, right? Like is to be in like I know you've talked about this lot that kind of active rest the place where it's not about being super focus, not about is going to sleep. But almost the best parts of our dars were in that flow state with things just click into me helping people with those you know types of times and figuring that out is the most valuable and and I don't think people talk about that enough. So I appreciate that you .

do a lot yeah well and I appreciate that you um bring up this notion that you know just acting more and more behaviors. I got a crush your workout and do sa and that is not the message. You know, sometimes we get teased and there's some good comedy takes on me that makes me chuckle now and again.

Yeah about that. But that's not that the approaches. These are tools that people can, can.

It's buffet. And I think most everyone agrees that sleep is key. Most everyone agrees that exercises is key, nutrition is key. Great social connection is key.

When IT comes to um because I want to make sure that we circle back to this when IT comes to the peptides IT seems that one of your approaches, if I may, is to kind of raise the tide so that you know the boat can not get out, can get out to see. And we were talking about these growth hormones are created ogul. We covered, uh uh G H R P six is the one that stimulate the appetite.

This, what I going to be a case condition that people would want to use that April moral in test, moron. Simon, I get a lot of questions about is IT M K six, seven, seven? yeah. And what in the world .

is mk six like a weapon? Is I think it's just like G H R P six, however, absorbs well orally. So it's basically the same. I see IT working very similarly .

to to G H R P six. Mute appetite. I M like court is all that sounds like a not good situation for most people.

not for most people. Although, you know let me give an example, where is a client? Very successful guy and um he's been on tests.

He's doing all the things right and his early sixty, he's he's working out well. He eats well, super well, all these things. He can't put on a muscle mass.

Well, right? And actually as people get older, that does become an issue for a lot of people, people maintaining healthy muscle mass. mk. Six, seven and seven before I was taken off, uh, the compound list by the f dates another one that .

was included or another acronym, take IT out by the fda, iconic OK.

But you can take IT only, which again removes the sigma burden of having do a shot and you will increase your appetite and that actually a very useful asian you know metabolite people as they get older. Um and I know this you know my kind of approach with this and but persons converses I try everything I can. And I remember in case of seven and seven I took a bad time and IT was an hour later I was in a dead sleep and I woke up and I had to go eat this.

This sounds like puberty.

I was like, what is going on, I didn't totally understand, was like, oh, I took that cap. Oh my god. Sh, I should never have taken IT right before bed.

And I had to go up and eat and destroyed my sleeps at night. But I learned and always learned, and i'm grateful for that. But don't take that one at bad time. But I absolutely will stimulate your appetite .

which are the growth of monto created ogun that um your more typical patients who don't want to stimulate appetite um both male and female patients prefer what what are you compounding for them?

I I test them around. I don't see any appetite simulation from that. I I have talked about that. I hax around and I think IT is more again, we talk about the flavor of these peptides.

Es, how I kind of look at at my head is more of the energy enduring growth on releasing peptide. es. I like IT for people to use IT in the morning, get a nice burst of energy.

They feel it's a clean energy. It's not a caffeine energy or Jerry or anything like that and is good for a more endurance type of athletics are working out. So people in that field of competition, whatever I think cx rounds is a great choice.

does not Spike appetite.

I have not seen .

that this is taken first in the morning, you gets an additional growth ormon and release.

Yes, you do. Yeah you in the early mornings.

you're waking up and and you used to compound IT. C, J, C, one, two, nine, five to get the other pathways involved that can help. But now C J, C has been taken out by F A.

right? But hacks are own, still exist. I can be compounded.

What's the dosage on hacks their own .

that you typically four hundred micrograms, it's the same as these other like apron G P six uh hundred, my grams. The two that are different would be test on, uh, ideal does this two milligrams per those, which is two thousand microgrammes. So quite different. And then Simon has a actually very broad dosing range anywhere from two hundred micrographs. I've used IT up to three thousand micrograms, depending on, you know your goals.

We were talking about coins on q ten and the crib cycle yeah um and I forgot to close the hat on supplements more broadly. Yeah again, doesn't sound like you're a big fan of taking lots of pills and caps. So I think some people will take that as a relief.

I think a lot of people get tired of taking a lot of pill. Some you don't like to do that. Um what are some of the other things that um you do take besides coins?

M Q ten um earlier we're talking about metal latest vitamins of beat. This is becoming increasingly popular. We're starting to hear more about yeah method tion and method ted compound. Could you education method to be by yeah .

I know I think people are familiar with that. Some people are talking about cast about the mt. Hfr snip.

We've not talked about that this podcast.

so be sure. So so a snip is a single nuclear time polymorphism mean that genetically things don't flow is easily. Again, that's an over simplification. Um and you you could be home as I guess for that meaning you have boat genes making you you know influencing you more. You could be head as I gus.

meaning it's just one gene mean one copy from one parents homes August, you say copy from each other.

I don't. And so um what that means is where we see that reflected homos stine is is a marker we use a lab marker we use is an emerging marker for looking at once cardio asia the risk profile. And so once got an elevated homos teen and elevated by some labs can be greater than seven by most laps. Greater than nine means you're at an increased risk. What that is I don't remember, but you're an increased risk having a cardigan co event, which heart attack or stroke.

And so we want to lower the number and the best way to lower the numbers taking ample method ted be vitals method related means you're adding a method group um so method b twelve method full late try method glsen meaning these are all metal lation donors which just met above and through your detox fiction, athletes in your liver is going to help you lower that homeless system that is more complicated than that. But that's most people. If you're going to take A B vitamin, take a mathlete or b vain because then you overcome you again.

I don't we've done a lot of mt H F far testing. I don't think it's is profound as some people make IT out to be like it's going to change their life. I've never seen that.

Can IT help you? sure. But you're gonna come IT by taking sufficient method dor .

b vitals anywhere. And again, those method to .

be vitals are methods to be twelve twelve, and there's a method to be six there. Then try method, glen. Um T M G is a good compound. The finding is a good method. Donors and mino are these taken in the morning.

in the afternoon.

in in the morning, although I think you know for people to play around with because i've certainly seen you know people get that three pm kind of slumber as opposed to reaching for the coffee or the donor takes some more method to be video and see what happens.

We're just the coffee. No, sorry, you're not just during cafe too late in the day lately. What I find, I don't know this is wrong to bring up on this podcast, but I can help myself.

I love your remote in the morning and afternoon. K coffee in the morning now makes me feel nauseous out of a pregnant or something, but IT makes me feel not just, but I love the taste of coffee in the afternoon. I middle thing, I don't know what IT is.

So now in the afternoon, like i'm one or two. P, M, even just the smallest around the coffee. It's like, it's like the most delicious thing i've ever taste. You can mess with you're sleep too late in the day.

But that's a perfect segway to talk about sleep because one thing that I know you've done a lot of work on and with are these peptides that can improve sleep not just by virtual enhancing growth on release but um you i'll just be very direct. I for the last like four to six months had the opportunity to try pilon and a injectable pineland combined with gye ene. Goodness gracious, in the positive sense of the goodness gracious, you're from itself.

So I don't know where where, but people have never before have I found something that can improve the amount of rapid eye movement sleep that I get yeah besides rapid I move and sleep deprivation. You sleep devices the next night, you'll get a compensate effect. That's not the way to increase your room sly folks. You know there are a lot of things like um hinton cy exercise that improve my slow way of deep sleep. Coal plant erly in the day improve so deeper sleep been a few other things but with pine elon and by the way, i'm not doing this every night.

I just occasionally my ran nal experiment and I track my sleep using the sleep track that's in eight sleep um and it's doubling the amount of rap and I moved and sleep that i'm getting yeah doubling yeah which is so like from an hour to two hours or from an hour and thirty like near nearly three hours you know even um I posted a picture of a sleeps score with rabbit I movement sleep not something I typically do yeah but even the the the the most competitive of biohackers h brian Johnson was like got a nice sleep score now he told to sleep score that's perfect every night for every night. But and i'm kind of poke in IT brand because we like to poke back and forth. We're friendly with one another. Um so the point being that panelling is a remarkable way to increase rather eve movement sleep. I have very little knowledge about IT except that I minor change is that I might stimulate some regeneration or stimulation of the insides of the penal.

That's exactly IT. You've know that. Yeah, I remember when you message me after starting IT and you like, this is amazing. It's amazing. Yeah.

amazing. And I hope the F. D. A doesn't knew IT as a country .

of conversation. I hope to do. no. But I mean, your response is what we received with the other patients who are who are loving. And I think that combination glick, i'm a big fancy license injecting IT seems to work really well. Back back to your question about panel on yeah, I mean, it's a bit one of the smallest peptides, but I think it's one of most profound. We used to combine that with epitome, the russian peptide that was used for .

the cadia rythm and for of my understand um APP talon also um is involved in DNA repair and might might has been explored in animal studies for trying to offset vision loss in some retina degenerate conditions .

and again put on the do not compound list with all the other hand that's gone but panier on stays and remains and yeah you response to IT and experience that has been very commonplace for working with patients and seeing that. I I think there's A A circling with the mastec with IT as well, you know in helping with malta and production on this, that comes from the penalties. And I this is just i'm populating I think there's more to the pinion than than we understand oh .

yeah yeah makes things other that's sure. Yeah.

I think it's kind of elusive, but I think there's something to IT. And I say that having used a lot of anim with people over the years and having very similar responses, which is awesome. Like everyone knows, like you said, when you sleep Better, your entire day is Better. When you sleep, your life is Better, like exponentially Better.

I think of the millions of people that suffer from lack of rap ani movement sleep, the lack of neuropathy. That can be the consequence of that. The lack of healthy removal of a emotional labels on previously memories, that is the consequence of rum deprivation, the enormous um impact on depression rates, enormous impact on very much every mental health issues, made worse by lack of them sleep.

So I I say or I raise this conversation about penelon with a little bit trepidation because I do worry that on the one hand, people will see there is a miracle drug. That's not what we're talking about. IT has this effect. But at the same time, I okay, i'll just say that you know there's another drug that was released recently, uh this is a fda approved drug um in the category of sleep drugs called the doors so IT works a little differently, doesn't push on the sleeping ess system so to speak IT um IT suppresses the wakeful the system and the ideas that supose to increase rem sleep was by named quivi c and things like that um I tried IT was a total disaster from wow I fell asleep, woke up three hours later. Can fall back to sleep I tried to lower dose sage is extremely expensive as well so I want to piss off whoever makes quit I forget who makes IT was a complete disaster for me ah um pineland has been incredible. And here's what's really interesting about IT to me is that IT seems to improve my sleep on the nights when I don't take IT, which makes total sense if IT indeed as providing some regeneration of the panel sites that make military and one could potentially pulse with now and again and get improvement and sleep .

every night. yes. yeah. Well, yeah. And it's I mean, I think worth noting that you you also take care of your health on many other aspects, and that's probably why you are sensitive to IT.

But I worked really well for you, right? And some other people can take longer, you know if if they're having to work on their die and having to work on their exercise and having to work on their thought patterns, we don't talking about that enough. Having positive thoughts um but yeah it's it's so safe we've never ever seen I mean I never ever have seen a side effect or negative side effect from pilon. It's and and your responses in uniform, you know people don't always get there quickly that people get there with their sleep .

and you you compounded with gay scene yeah, what's the rational there?

I really like license an inhibitory nor transmitter. It's coming to the nervous system over the years. I tend to start with that when people having trouble's settling down at night that it's gonna take people, but just transitioning from, you know, being active eight and nine P M wanting to settle down, click in pretty large dosages.

At least most people think they are starting with three thousand and five thousand milgram orally um kind of turns down the nervous system. People relax a little bit and then they tend to sleep Better from IT. And then you can die IT up.

I mean, i've used very large dose. As for the other advantage license that works on face to liberty toxicity, which is me asic contiguous. So you're helping your liver work Better.

Um and in a world where we're being exposed with all these toxic things from going for, say, to heavy manuals, we all need to do some sort of liver mitigation strategies. Gay is one of the best. Wow, interesting.

We haven't done episode of this podcast on heavy metals, but were i'm very interested in this because many people write to me asking about metal toxic and about mold .

toxic must become super big yeah. Big yeah. I mean, it's very prevalent and IT seems the more we talk about I mean, we've seen that for years and years and years IT makes sense, right? Like if you think about the amount of airplanes flying above us every day pouring down heavy metals, I mean it's massive. Its in the arts, in the water is in the soil. You talk about life to say around up the same exact thing, so many chemicals, and it's chAllenging for us as humans.

The way I break IT down, not to get too far topic is we're water cycle organisms living in a fat cyber, where all is the job of our liver, essentially to take the fat cyber stuff, make IT water cyber, we can express IT, right? And that takes place in liver in two phase is faced, one using the people for fifty and zych like taking the trash, tween the trash, in the trash. Outside the road, new face two minus sic conditions, the trash truck comes and picks up the trash.

Very few things in nature induce face two independent to face one, meaning most of us have trashed power up on the side of our road. Those things are the polyphenol, right? So things like the blues, the red, the pigments, that's why it's important to a wide variety of colors in your night match. T has a very strong inducing effect on face to liberate, right?

Yes, I need to develop the place for match. Yeah, I think it's kind of greiner .

IT and it's bitter, bitter things tend to be again, helping that face to then helps face two. We do a lot of that information. Ally in the glass is a wonderful agent for inducing face two, independent of face one.

And the trouble is anything people realize, you know, people are told, you know, most pharmaceutical duce ap for fifty anzai. And a misconception is, well, if i'm just inducing one, i'm good. If you induce one, you induce them all.

So if you take any pharmacy tics, you're reducing your entire people for fifty system. You're speeding IT up, meaning you're putting more trash out on the side of the road. And if you look at the amount of things being exposed to outside of pharmacy ticals.

it's mounting we on the side the road in the liver.

That's what i'm just using that as a metaphysique .

yeah like you about it's squeeze and you're trying about building up of a debris seller, debris with IT or excuse me, minibar lic debris within your body.

right? The trash again, very over simplification. You need to speed up place to to get the trash trucks come to pick up the trash so that you can then take that compound and exeter in your school and your year and your sweat, your breath is man is the only wait works is not complicated process, but there's a lot of misconceptions about IT.

So when people take a peptide that's injectable panel and glen, they're in glass, obi, see. But for let's say, if somebody doesn't have access to to you or for whatever reason, yeah there's a barrier to getting a holder of those petites. Can people take glin or yeah.

glen's absorbed. Well, really has a really sweet taste, is actually the smallest seminal acid. Huge fan of IT we've been using a long time.

You can take big dosages of IT. Very is, again, my starting. This is usually three to five grants at that time. wow.

And then I tell what my way I do this recommended that is try that for a few nights in row, not noticing a thing double to those good at ten grams. Literally most people at ten grams of glen will notice IT. And again, it's not going to nessy make you drawls you. You not can be that your no nervous systems can be toned down a little bit, can help you fall asleep a little bit Better, and then while you sleep will allow this detoxing ation process starts working. You're gone to be more efficient and how your liver works, everything tied together.

right? I'm still still a big fan of things like magnesium three and eight um appetising which is a camera mile derivation. Um and i'll try glin. I think a few years back I was was using a little bit of I seem to is more like a thousand milligrams but now that it's in the injectable peptide yeah the piano and I I don't take IT. Is there an oral form of palon that works?

There's these biorefinery, oregon atr peptides, which were developed by this russian scientists. Last thing, corbin's. I think there are a lot of research actually there's public research about IT.

I think the eels, one of the ones that they say we'll survive the stomach acid and get through the guy and be absorbed. Um so I think that's true. We've always used as injectable, and I tend to like injected things for the by availability. So yes, but to your point, I think people can those are going to be harder and harder to find, actually quit, easier defined an injectable opinion .

and in oral yeah and I as we're tell you about the summer zing IT, what unfortunately, just the way the internetworking that people are going to start selling that likely as a consequence to this conversation, start selling penelon. But you need to know that you're actually getting pilin.

I mean, it's very easy for somebody to just pop something up on is on and sell IT and maybe they just throw some militants and and there and called by elland, there is a lot of like bs stuff out there. So why the compound pharmacy component and working with a physician? yes.

So key in researching, right, making sure that what you're taking this is legit lot of legitimacy out there. Do you think .

that pharmacists, al companies are going to move into these other peptides? I mean that you certainly, uh, a promo land for the reduction in of your body fat. That's an F A approved drug.

So is sumerian after approved drug, the G L P one agonis F D A approved drug. So those are the f is unlikely to pull those, but there are blockbusters um is especially good G L P one. I mean they're making of not even a small fortune but a large fortune money.

The concerning part about the G P ones is to me is what we're starting to see. They've been able to be compounded because there was a uh, shortage and the way that works, the compounding pharmacies because these are brand name drugs and they are not patented ed for the peptide, right? They're patterne for the delivery system, which is the pen um which most people don't realize and they've been able to be compounded and then way more affordable because they're compounded um and there is rumors that the pharmacy al companies now have supply back. We'll come back and they will you know remove the ability to to allow these peptides to be compounded, which means we will have to stick to traditional dosages and people lose access because there can be way more expensive. Mean they are if if you insurance doesn't cover IT fifteen hundred a month for most people, very expensive.

That's a lot more yes for a lot. That's rent and more.

So yeah, i'm hopeful that doesn't happen. Um but that's that's in the works that's in the works that would be a huge shame. And again, i'm not a uh, pessimist by any means on the petition optimist, so will just make sure that stays this way. You again, if IT does that get creative and .

and go other out as well. Earlier you mentioned stem sell therapies. Yes.

those are not F, D, A approved in this country. They are actually use. yes. So I think that using the term stem cell is a problem, right? If we use the term autologous cell right, which would be P R P, it's basic rich plasma and take your blood.

they spend down, they take the right.

And so the ruling is, I understand IT, as long as you're taking a cell that from you and you give IT back within four hours, then that is allowed with under the fda guidelines.

Interesting there was the clinic in florida a few years ago was touting stem sel therapies for macular ge generation, injected some stem cells into these patients eyes and they went blind really quickly and they were not blind prior injections that to my understanding caused a severe setback to the home field. Um am old enough to remember when gene therapy was set back by about ten years because a patient received gene therapy um which is now pretty common um for certain diseases and the patient died something clear exactly why they died but that delayed the field of a gene therapy um by at least a decade mean this country is very conservative and when IT comes to the approval of .

new therapies, you know yeah no and I think like anything, there's gonna people who get too aggressive a minute. I've heard of doctors injecting stem cells into people's desks and then they get this guidance in infection that can just spiral very quickly. I think it's you got ta be reasonable, you know what you're trying to accomplish.

I'm excited about stem cells and as there be P R P in P R F and using them as a kind of biological and because I think there's a lot to learn, I think we only know very little um from what we've seen from working with our patients. It's been tremendous from a rejuvenation stamp. But remember, as long as you know, I think it's taking from your own, you know then giving back your own within how the fda outlines IT. I think that's great way to do IT.

certainly of the clinical clinical data um to back those statements. A famous son, alpha one, what is this pepped died. But maybe before we discuss that .

to the F A nuka alpha.

okay, they're coming through with with how it's are in taking out all these five tips. okay. Well, then let's keep this relatively brief. What was sima in alphabet being used for previously?

Yeah, I think IT was, from my observation, the best appetite for immune modulation. So we would use IT, an overactive immune system like auto immune es. By definition, someone has not immune.

Sees in their immune system is attacking their own self, right? That's class loops from the authorities. Things like that silent disease type one divides, as are autumn, an diseases we could use time is and off of one. And we turn down the immune response.

We'd also use IT a lot in postcode d where you have an abNormal union response to immune system hasn't caught back up and you can kind of dial IT up using time is for one in a very thing, but use a lot with long. And we were using five thousand mo grams a day. Um sometimes introvert ously getting great results, very safe, had no issues with IT, but unfortunately it's off the table.

I hear a lot of complaints about brain fog with long cover and brain fog generally. Cerebral licence is a very interesting compound. My understanding is that cerebral licence is available in europe more broadly than IT is in the U.

S. Is IT to the F, D, A. OK. See what happens after.

That's right. We've used a lot of reba licence. We actually a clinic that's open in london. We actually did use IT. We've used a lot more over there than over here.

You have A U S.

Clinic and in A U K. We a one in based in london international. And um I think you know three, the license been used for decades in the setting, you know a post stroke, post traumatic brain injury. The trouble with that, again, I observed with people, they get three realized and what time about iv you can also see the sub q is they will have a day or two where they feel really down and out like it's like their mood shifts to like this dark place.

Scary yeah.

And they come out of IT. But most people don't like that feeling. And so we just we stopped using IT mostly. For that reason, my understanding .

is that three of the license is kind of a cocktail of brain derived trophic factor, silly neutrophil factor. Other thing is not one thing.

yeah. And I think right, I think I think collectively IT increases b DNF levels, right? Like there dhaka to another direction.

That's another one that was removed by the fda, supposedly the most potent way to increase brain intertoto c back or of the juice the neurons live in. Again, over simplification. That's gone. But I think through the licence did .

the same thing. interesting. So islams, we're talking about maintaining a boosting cognitive function. Here's one i've never tried um but you i've talked a little bit about and it's still seen as kind of renegade but it's becoming more common place um and that's mEthane blue yeah and I always make the joke that I used to use method blue to clean my fish tank right because I was a fish tank and this in out this I was when I was a kid right now I don't talk empty um no one intended um what is method blue yeah and what people using IT for and does IT turn your tongue blue?

IT does for sure not permanently, not permanent. It's actually the the first pharmaceutical ever prescribe bed in this country in the later eight .

hundred with method blue goods here.

So sounds like really regard but it's it's not got IT, but it's it's gained favor in the last five years. Certainly, we learned about IT particularly I learned about IT through this doctor who was telling me with covet patients, he was getting immediate like within a day of stopping of code symptoms from using method blue. That's like peak my interest like wow, that's incredible. And then he went on to say that then covet test returning negative within a matter of like two days.

which was unhurt of i've seen that was something else, but i'll get back to that.

And so that's when I was I O, this is started to be talked about and learned about IT. So methodies blue, when we talk about the my ria using that remember and bind societal sea oxy. And I think I know traditionally it's used when people have carbon by oxide poisoning. Common carbon oxyde poisoning will give you method blue and IT, helps you read a blood cells, display the the common oxide and put oxygen. And so it's an oxygen atoms that's how I think of .

IT is that used as a performance enhancing drug and uh, endurance sports because this sounds like the kind of thing that cyclist would would really want to use check with your local governing body. This always question. I get people like they hear something in the podcast and I go, can I take IT and i'm gna get disqualified. And now we say, I have no idea if you'll get this quality.

I don't believe it's on the, okay, I don't believe we all just .

look for the people of the blue tongue. Yeah, yeah. Easy test.

So method blue, very absorbed, very well orally. You know, I think of you like N A D, the molecule d because works on that. You know, sia crowes different than I D though, because any is not, if you're taking anything by itself, not absorbed early well at all.

One of the trouble with a metal blue is and actually can take way bigger dosage, is a really the intravenously. We've give IT intravenously a lot, but we're limited and use IT intervened sly just because it'll start to cause some spin of the main. The ARM starts hurting if you're giving too much method blue, either too much reach quickly and so we can give IT only you get a captive IT. That's how we are family. So I think a good dose .

is no more than ten miles miles in .

the morning. IT is, you know, it's a cognitive stimulant for sure. I mean, i've had more people of the last five years because we make method in blue, we combining IT with mother agents, a little bit of caffeine and b variants. And people say, this is the best thing from, you know.

my brain functions. Recall memory, new trope I really like because, no, there aren't circuits for being smart. Their circuits for the test was but you so it's ten million grim of method blue combine and you've got some other things in the cocky version that you make. Take him in the morning .

on an empty stomach. Yeah, you could take with food. It's gonna be well, absorb IT will interesting to people, I need to say IT will turn your yarn and Green or blue for how long? About twenty four hours depending.

And well on a good cabi out is if IT doesn't have patients. And that's interesting to me as a clinical because that means that your mina country is not working well, right? The way I see this is you should get spill over. You shouldn't can use IT all.

And if you're not, there's something wrong there that you're using all of that and you're getting no spill over backing your bloodstream, which get filter into your batter, your urn, which your nid out and that and that happened with the culp patients. So it's like, oh, well, you had no Green or blue urn. There's a problem with your my country.

So it's putting more oxygen to the blood cells.

correct? Like your your hemon is able to pick up more oxygen, that's exactly right. But then there's a know a mild mai and habit or which is .

going to c yeah .

which can allow things like serotonin to work a little bit longer in that synaptic left. You know you've expanded way Better than I think about satan and dopamine and how does work but um there is a cognitive enhancement from him for sure is very real and we have a lot of people using and love IT. IT also seems to be an anti vio. You know you get this again. That's probably through the many country making your manager more efficient.

It's a proscription drug.

It's a prescription of drug. But there there is now and I don't totally understand that there is now strictly over the counter neutra udal supplement options at method lue. For sure, anyone can go online and buy IT for sure.

Just trust me now now are gonna a few and and you .

talk about turning your mouth blue if you take a liquid form, right? And will do that sometimes in the office when we're doing other treatments, will give a big dom method in blue to kind of help fuel quickly, make a lot of ATP, which we want to do with some different I V treatments we do. Um so i'll give sometimes up to fifty five zero milligrams at a time. Um their gums, teeth, lips are blue for an hour to .

and how often can people take method blue again?

You you could take IT everyday I I think is a little bit lger writing. I don't I don't take IT everyday. I take IT about three times a week.

I think it's about right. Um I do a people who need IT more you know for whatever they're dealing with. I do think you know as a nutrient, if we're going to call IT that it's it's a lot of its an insurance policy for your metal country.

So earlier you mentioned a patient or maybe he was patients plural, that experienced a more rapid transition out of A A A covered infection or maybe more recovery from long COVID symptoms at sea. Uh IT reminded me of um the second time I got covered, far less intense than the first time. But the second time I got covered I had an amazing experience where my covet test was very strong.

Band IT was very clear like I I had covered. I was no question about IT. I didn't feel good.

I was fatigue um wasn't super severe out put IT more kind of on a six six out of ten on the kind of malaise level, no fever, okay, and staying stayed bed, you know, stayed away from people this sort of thing. But I did an N A D infusion, of course called the mico. If they came over, they give me an N A D infusion.

And correlation is not causation but um I think he was seven hundred and fifty milligram N A D infusion over the course of about forty five minutes. I had the usual feelings that one gets when you get any the infusion of you feel like an elephant is stepping on your legs, your chess gonna cramp. So you feel.

And then when that stops, you feel much Better than you go into the thing. Yeah, the band was absent. The next day. My symptoms were, I went from, I don't want, say, gone.

I went from, you know, like a five, six out of ten, as I mentioned, to like a two edit ten yeah and within another eight hours I was good good to go and Better. Now this is correlation accusation. I don't know what was going. I could have been the sAiling bag in any number of things um but the shift from a dark band to no band yeah was so dramatic that I took another test OK after the no band and then of course the next day in the next day the thing um interesting I I don't know what that means um but one wonders whether not it's just A A global way of combating inflation tion know I just I think about a systemic effect. And the reason I raised this is that I don't want to give the impression that I think that like any is specifically in the pathway that was targeted but that my brain and body were inflamed clearly I had an infection so you don't you could have a flu, you could have a cold, you're inflamed um what your thoughts on that anecdote again, it's just anette. But what what are your clinical reflections we see .

so many times? Yeah I mean the for the longest time.

And so we've .

been using any d longer than most unfortunate that I was given the original N D infusion protocol, which came from mexico story. I don't want to borrow you, but that doses to seven hundred eighty milligrams is actually what we came up with in my office. And that's what most people adopted just because we've used IT more than probably anyone else on the planet.

Huge fan of an d very biased. But that's only because I seen at work over and over and over. An inexplicable scenario is just like you're describing, where it's not just you go from a to b, but you're going to a to z very quickly.

And I used to use the word transformational talking about IT, not just okay going from a six state to a world state, but in most people going from a well state to a super well state really quickly. And it's super impressive. So there's a lot more to entity than we understand, right?

Because this very empirically giving someone this coenzyme by do and be three derivative, how is IT dramatically changing symptomatic ally, how someone feels, but IT does. And i've seen IT with thousands upon thousands of people, certainly in the setting of coveted, certainly in other bym actions you name IT. I have been more impressed with the work of any d than probably any other agent we've ever used.

amazing. Yeah, I take subway while in men each day IT makes my hair grow ridiculously fast. I've done the control experiments on a scientist I know have no control experiments.

It's still just, end of one is just me makes my nails go really fast, makes my hair go fast. That's the major consequence. Ah I don't by the way, I want to be clear, I don't have any stake in any company that sells N A D or N D infusion.

So i'm just reporting what i'm report. H somebody who's uh quite expert in the uh N A D pathway child's brunner um who I believe has a relationship to accompany that makes N R supplements. I think that I encourage me to try N R I. I took these N R supplements. This is what it's and I D minus a osoph's roup is more understanding um and those I took early, I couldn't tell if I got the same or different effect because I was taking them together.

I didn't continue to take them because compared to any man, IT was very expensive yeah and I I just stop taking so I that's why are you stumbling on a but in brief discussions with Charles and how the affordable online IT seems that there is some literature, human clinical literature, showing the nr can reduce inflation tion. Is that right? Yeah OK less data that and in can reduce information, least lack of human studies. okay. So we're still kind of in is still, I marky foggy territory with respect to the research and clinical .

biochemistry. yeah. And like what does the biochemistry do in the way I think about IT? Again, because we kind of pioneer the infusions, the nd drips, which for me, transformational. Just observing ing lots of people who I never saw the same thing within a men.

And are, you know, you don't having this transformation experiences within a week that I tell the story a lot, is I A patient? He was diagnosed the chronic action bar byers, which is rare, but IT does exist. He was depressed on disability because he couldn't almost .

get out of bed.

This is mono. But IT was reactivation about bar. yeah. And so very like fatigue and depressed and literally on disability could work. And he, I said before we do anything, I the way Operas, I wanted to get you feeling Better first, before we start to tackle some of the bigger things. We we did the loading dose of nd, which we came up with five treatments in ten days, came back my officer's wife as our use, crying, because then a week my husband is back and i've seen that so many times with N D and I can explain IT, right? And I and if I just stick the by doesn't make sense to, oh, you're increased in N D N H R O feeling the by the country, which are all everybody thousands per there's something that we just told there's there's got to be outside the my control effect of an ad that's not well understood.

So in the backdrop of our conversation today, they're been a uh a number of themes. But one of the things that seems to keep coming up as that um there are a lot of things about medicine that understand and yet there are tools that seem to work for certain people extremely well. A few years ago, I went to a meeting.

This is a foundation meeting, foundation I was a part of um where you get to see talks from really that the best of the best laboratories um and they only show unpublished data. And at the time I don't know if this papers published yet, but at the time they were showing that they took people that were diagnosed with major depression OK, and they start doing a bunch of metabolomics on them. Okay, now this sounds prety standard for social media.

IT says, actually really like prety herdal. Like not a lot of of places have done this, right? So know couple thousand patients, blood draws, they are trying to figure out.

They ask a simple question, are there any specific vent and deficiencies that are associated with depression? And as I recall, they identified a few different types of im fiction ency. So it's not like one biden is not always meta ted b six or something like that or excuse me, is not always be six or be twelve.

But they found these you know clusters of patients that had major depression that we're deficient, in particular b vitamin. They supplemented back to b vitamin. Lone behold, those patients showed remission of their of their depression. So one could you know conveniently conclude, oh, well, all depression is A B vain deficiency.

But of course that's not true, right? More likely, depression, like fever, is just a broad description of symptoms, right? But what we're so exciting about this talk to me anyway was that people are starting to look at nutritional deficiencies as a potential SE of mental illness.

Yeah, which now has a bit more attraction, but at the time was like, oh, what what do we really saying here? I thought all of depression was a certain deficiency, right, this kind of thing. So when you talk about N A D having these transformative effects, and in fact, that N A D can kind of raise the tide on a number of different biological processes, to me that makes perfect sense. IT might have kicked off some might a contro pathway or some some seller pathway that then fills in a .

blank that's desperately needed.

Is one way that how often do you encourage already healthy patients to do N. D infusions? What are the dosages I should mention? The nd infusions for most people are a little bit costly. They're like anywhere from five hundred two thousand dollars yeah or more .

yeah if you're so to mean someone has .

the means yeah so here's what we found and again.

just found that by treating a lot of people in learning is we do alerting dose um for most people we found the sweet to be seven hundred and fifty milligrams. Interview introduce us, they when they were doing uh nd in the nineties and they were doing IT for substance abuse. So alcohol, pain medicine, morphine they used IT for that came from actually in the nineties. People travel to mexico for N A D infusions that the that protocol was ten, three days of intervenes. N D yes, that those used with three thousand milgram.

three thousand milk.

And that's why I took six, eight to ten hours per confusion. You could not not get through .

IT putting five hundred milligrams in over the course of forty five minutes. This can be very uncomfortable.

many people to get. And in assist about that comes from there was a gentleman in the states in two thousand and six live in lousianner. He had a pain medicine addiction, went to mexico, got the nd protocol, changes life.

He then licensed the use of the only injected and d product, which was from a south african company at the time, brought IT to the united states, open to clinic in atlantic. All he did was addiction, and I got to know with, i'm in Charleston, not too far involved in I V work. He was not a physician.

I don't remember the time. But he came to me said, here, I needs some help because, again, a lot of questions about this N D stuff. And so he handed me the original protocol.

I'm super grateful and fortunate um but what I realize is no one has time to spend sixty eight to ten hours in someone ee's office you know they may do that once, but they are not doing IT more than once. So we started trAiling, you know, different dosages, two hundred, fifty, five hundred and fifty thousand on up. I just found collectively, by watching people.

And I did seven hundred fifty milligrams a sweet pot, meaning they get the benefits that we can talk about, but then they could get through IT an hour or two hours. And that was meaningful. And then we found that we don't need ten state days.

It's too much. That just is crazy. We ve found that five treatments in ten days, again, afforded people the ability to have great benefits, which were uniform.

Probably ninety five percent of people who do allows ing this will come back and tell you their brain is getting bigger, they feel more creative, they have a elevated mood, they can sleep less, but have more energy. Colors look brighter, languages is easier. I mean, this is all very real.

So I think IT affects the nervous system burst, just the concentration tion of the market country for every single neuron in the body, the physical components, meaning, you know, recovery in helping with physical exercise. Those come, but I think they come later. And so we settled on seven hundred fifty milligrams.

We settled on the you loading dose. And then what I noticed that people are coming back between three and four weeks saying, hey, I don't feel good as I did after I did that learning dose ince, we start doing a once a month maintenance dose and that is what we still recommend to today. Some people do less and some people do more as some people do once a week.

Um but plenty people do IT once a month and some people do a quarterly. Some people do whatever they can. On average, once a month seems to work really well for people then during the pandemic and realizing this is growing because again, we train practices kind in the medicine that we practice.

We have trained three hundred, three hundred and fifty practices and kind of give them the playbook, so to speak. Um people weren't coming to the office as much with covers, so we started doing IT subcutaneous sly and actually that's worked out really well. Will do one hundred milligram subcutaneous sly again five days on, take two days off.

You get a little bit of that stomach cramping from one hundred million gram injection, like you said, can't really be absorb well early, not gonna work. So you're going to have to inject IT and use that. Agree, there is a Price point here, right? It's gona cost money.

But like most things that you know, it's to me ito pic, one thing for people engaging in nd would be IT really. Yeah, I all things, the things I ve just been so impressed over the years. Now peptides are amazing.

Not to not peptides. peptides. There are so many peptides. And I will get there right, because we can take this peptide for the nervous and this peptide for the immune system. But collectively, one agent, one thing it's any has been the most important for from where I said working with.

well, well, that's a significant statement. So one hundred milligrams injected sub cutaneously yeah a little bit of stomach cramping, yes. As compared to the five hundred milligrams to seven hundred and fifty e or thousand milligrams, that one bringing in iv, the fastest i've ever dripped IT in was, and like forty minutes .

to the record. What's the record? Three minutes and twenty six seconds. Is that you? No, no, no, no, no, no.

are five hundred milgram .

and eighty milligrams two, several people did IT. Five hundred cc, the sAiling three minutes, twenty six seconds. It's insane. Yeah, yeah, I don't recommend IT.

No, no.

we would not allow to happen. It's too much. It's you've ttl have a lot of experience with yeah .

I found that because you have to sit there for a while you could think, okay, well, you organized the know the plumbing correctly that you could type or something but you feel it's hard garbage enough. It's during the infusion that like people you get your itself is actually a very interesting um window into empathy for people who have .

pain totally.

You when you're in this kind of whole bodies, kind of systemic pain and discomfort and you gain that so alive. I'm getting sensing IT now distant memory of this kind like for people to get to see sick. You think about being on a boat and walking back and forth, you little nauseous someone would walk in the room and you like, why are they walking like that, right? You know, and if it's your own, it's your sense of pain.

I Normally don't have that response to people, not a moody person in general. But then you know, when you remove the infusion, you feel great and people seem delightful. The the irritating person is is a very interesting experiment in in social .

empathy IT is it's this is just what I was late, is that a lot of people are chAllenged because a lot of people are numb to the world they live in. They don't feel things. And when you do any, there is nothing like that experience in that feeling. And so you are going to just psychological says something is changing inside of me and it's something empowering because it's when I received its a lot to your point, what we do, we have a kind of an iv room more of like eight chairs and we make IT social because when you're talking to people and learning about their experiencing, there's actually a lot of a healing that and curves .

just from that community .

rebounding is experiment.

Yeah, for people that can't afford the infusion, the injections would be an express bet. If they can't afford, those would would be disabling .

what anyone or. And I think so.

I think yes. So IT going from most expensive to least expensive. Most expensive will be in iv. Then IT would be subcutaneous. Then IT would be N R, and then IT would be a .

sublingual. An you could do, and typically a little IT wild car doing IT topically you could do IT r under .

your yeah panpan radic patches those give me a really term .

I get the part is ah it's too strong. A lots of people get get irritated. I think the anny gets in well, but the patch its up as a hinderance obstacle.

And for those that are listening to this, and they may recall I did episode of this podcast with dr. Peter tear. We talk about N A D N R and that was mainly focused on the the research later. You're not onna find much um so what we're talking about .

here is clinical experience. Yeo to i'm a clinic throw, so my experience is observing people .

and you're just student.

what works well. And but but you know, i'm confident about IT because i've done a lot of IT. You know i've seen a lot of you know how pet at work because we ve done a lot of this nd because we've overseen again a lot of nd here and in london all over and in the providers we work with. So we get a lot of feedback about what works and what doesn't work. You know .

speaking of um clinicians and science and and all of this um there a couple other peptides that have received F D A approval um that are commonly used things like uh P T one four one which is in this milani hormonal pathway h that's used one of its fda proof uses is I think brain name is why I C is for female hypo libido. So it's stimulates the bio and women is also used to stimulate a lebo and .

men that right can be and can be helpful for it's like a neurological mechanism for recon this function .

so is so it's not just relate to blood flow.

It's not actually it's not that in pt one forty one year like a fragment or diode of the peptide milanese um which stimulate tes out of milano sites.

Stimulating hormone you know is becoming more and play I guess in the environment I Operate and just because of more toxicity and we think of more toxic being a biotoxins and hitting, you know, msa being kind of the general in terms of a lot of these formal part actually in multa tank can strip bolster by putting out more melanthius stimulating her man seems to bolster immune response. This is me with energy to the downside of milano. It's stimulates milani. De, so you're going to get this tanning and it's not like a it's like an orange looking tanning right .

from the inside out.

Yeah, you see that you recognize IT. So P T, one forty one. What they found is in rats, I think IT was female.

Rats were copulating more when they got this compound. And then they go, go and let's try in humans. And it's LED to that.

Our trouble with that is very small, a narrow theraputics dow. And if you give too much, you're gonna a get nauseous pretty quickly. And some people don't like, particularly women don't like that tanning luck.

It's not can look very unnatural, unnatural. The word yeah the media paternity, which at least my understanding is the origin of the these peptides that were talking about now is super interesting and you mentioned the nadia these petites hit multiple pathways um when we had doctors at night from university california just go on to talk about gp won in a lot of detail um he mentioned that you know some of the larger social with oceanic and major things like that release to the fact that there's um you know there are receptors for these things not just in one hypothalamic c structure but also in the like area push stream in areas of the of the brain that are these critical primitive areas that are associated with generating noja when you need to rid yourself of a poison that no matter conveniently engineered us with with neons that when they detect chemical changes in the blood make us vomit yeah .

and but to touch on that is what we found is if we start without, we're going to micro do and go slowly with the gp ones. The lodge is virtually unheard of. Not saying IT doesn't occur, but it's super rare if you just take your time with I think when people are most promise are doing shot gunning the dose, essentially you're overwhelming your system. So I have two more questions.

The first one is a bit of a controversial one, OK. Today, we've talked about a lot of peptides that you've observed incredible utility for.

We also talked about a lot of peptides that the fda has banned, basically, to be blunt, we've also talked about peptides that at one point, not too long ago, were considered part of kind of niche culture, like fitness or body building culture that are now approaching what will probably be trillion dollar industries over the next ten years. Things like G O P one agonis. So any listener with um the neurons firing will put you into together and say, okay, what's the deal?

Obviously, the F D A, I like to believe, has a genuine interest in our safety. They don't want us taking things that are dangerous for us at the same time. Um there seems to be a kind of claying back of what's out there and then um handing off pharmacy al companies to put out compounds for which there are profit margins.

I mean the profit margins, these are insane. We can't comprehend can't comprehend IT. So um you know M K six 7 seven I crossed out。 Right F D A grab ed, that one I was in half one crashed out. Okay, one bunch of other things um that have been a bpc one five seven claude back.

Um so how shall we frame this in our mind? In other words, do you think that the F, D, A is a genuine good intentions of trying to protect the general public? And that's whether doing this, or is this plan to kind of make that appear to be the case, so that these that can then be sold at a very, very high profit margin.

And perhaps that could be both, right? It's not neither or and and I want to be very clear. You know I want to major medical school, I but i'll speak freely anyway right you know um as with my colleagues like I like to think that these governing bodies have some people there, at least with very good intentions.

I don't think it's a bunch of bad people like ride in their hands together with getting kickbacks s on farmers. I don't believe that that I know that not to be the case, but like what's really going on here because this is kind of weird, there's a huge glasser of compounds we call peptides, clearly have a mentally beneficial uses in the right dosage of the right hands with the right fsc ans that being caught back. Why .

confusing, I think, is probably both. I think no, I would say that unfortunately, a lot of times when the government act, they overreach, right? Like I do think they're probably have good intentions.

I think there there probably sound reasons to want to have a oversight of things that seemingly is the wildwood west, right? And there's truth to that, right? Because pet pet came on the scene and people started using them.

They're recommended here and there, people could get them from still can research companies. And there's not a lot of growing of understanding what what what is going on. So i'm sure there's an element to like, hey, let's understand this Better.

But on that side, I think they went too far, right? Because I think if you really look a data, if you were really interested in that, there's ways to understand how things work without removing them from the marketplace. So the other side of me is like just like we're talking about aseptic and monju sema glue, titan is appetite our block buster drugs. If you're pharmacy al company and you see that they're fifteen to twenty other peptides, which are really working and really working because again, we've just seen the clinical response over and over and over. It's not a large you know leap to think, hey, where from a little company, what if we turn that peptide, which was available to the commoner for lack of Better term, into a drug .

not like by lc, that was done for millenia similiar in horn pathways?

Yeah and so i'm sure I think it's both you know I think um and that's why I go back to we have to Operate within certain boundaries, right? Like that's that's great. We have to understand this boundaries that would be and I say this sincerity, I don't when we're talking about health care, we're talking about people's heals.

We're not even close to talking about the truth. For most things, right? We're not talking about why people get chronic disease.

We're not talking about how our food is really over process and the availability of high quality and nutrient and what that means. We're not talking about all the toxicities. We just look at round up glia, say, and its interference with so many pathways in the body.

And people say now in monsanto, whoever runs that now saying it's so safe and it's just not true. So I think it's in line with and what I support is unfortunately, unfortunately, as an individual, you have to be your own best advocate. You can't rely on someone to say, particularly the government, that you have permission or not permission to do you think it's best for people to do their own research, seek out reliable information, right? Start here.

Mean you guys that so much stuff, very safe place for people to be. Like, this is where I want to start. And then life is you learned by expLoring and seeing what works for you is like, you start with a recipe to cook, right? But some people like a saltier, some people like a spicer.

You got to see what works best for you. And that's why I seek out other people, people like myself, other physicians, other people who have experiences saying, hey will help you, guide you in this. And that's where the magic happens.

But to be honest, we're not being true in many levels. When we talk about health, where is not? We spend so much money for what? We're not making a dent.

Chronic disease, we're not making an impact. We're not helping people lead Better lives. You know, medicine is great for life and death.

Things IT really is. You know, I in two thousand, in August of twenty twenty, a terrible domino pain. I just come back from using our friends and who, why I kind of try to treat myself unsuccessful.

Ly eventually was on labor day. I had so much pain the next day called my friend is ready, eldest, that I need to do a cat scan. I did the cat again. He called me on the way back to the obvious. I had a blood clot in the vain going to my liver that had completely cut up.

I almost died like IT was really seriously be hostilities, mom, blood then is now I am forever grateful for pharmaceuticals save my life, right? But those same medicine are not proving going to help me lead my best life, right? And there's its its chAllenging having been educated, a very formal conventional medical system which is dominated by the pharmaceutical.

Dusty is a problem, right? We go back to the flexion report like nineteen seventy, one thousand fifteen or something where they studied medical education and basically said if you're medical school and you're not promoting pharmacology in inline and we're going to kick out alternative remedies and modalities like car practicin, activity, care, nutrition, they don't count anymore. And that's where we are the only thing that matters.

And see IT as a society. You were deemed healthy by the pills we take, right? If we really honest, those pills aren't making this healthy and by a large, they are not even making us well anymore, you know.

I mean, and so I think it's time and it's wonderful to have this form be able to talk about like this. Why supports so many other people talking about IT? Like we need to make a change and that we need to start being honest about what we're doing.

Our health is not gonna coming from doctors saying taking this pillar, that portion, it's not not at this stage and it's more like the people are gonna healthy from seeing their train or in their gym, right this way. These things go to the great market to market, market if you actually get results that I mean, and it's just sad but true. And so they answer your question, I think it's both.

I think the pharmaceuticals ands are greedy. I think they like making money, right? I think they also like helping people, right? They want to help people. But IT comes with a big cost and the government's there to kind of curl that.

But like most things, the government doesn't go too far, right? And uh, I think we need to be honest about those discussions and it's not threatened and not harmful just to be saying, hey, how do we make this Better and how do we even agree to disagree? Let's start there.

I really appreciate your take I I to rely on prescription drugs. Now again, I know maybe i'll lose some following for saying this, but i've had some some situation where IT made sense to like taking antibiotic like after a surgery or something or like i'm not like anti anti biotics, right? I also don't I also don't need them like emms.

I also believe that well, everything you said, I I generally ree with I don't have the clinical expertise. So the nuance to really understand these governing bodies, that's one the reasons why i'm asking today really appreciate you uh, shutting light on this. I think um you you clearly a truth teller.

You're telling us your truth from the clinical perspective, but it's clear you also have broad a broad objects here. Um we appreciate no, this part always been about bringing a diverse um outlooks on the same thing. And it's been wonderful today to be able to explore peptides and and this issue of F D A approval and F D A room of as the case.

Maybe you said something earlier a couple of times that i'd like to finish up on um talked about positive thoughts. Yes your physician yeah not a psychologist but your physician. And you're in the business of making people feel Better. And it's clear to me that among your many talents you have great powers of observation. So what is this thing about positive thoughts?

I mean, there are a lot of neural immo gc data out there showing that you stress makes us sick if we stressed too long for you repeatedly for for too long stress in the short period actually good for us, right? There are some data showing that positive that can and hands immune system function at the data are pretty cool clinically. However, what's your observation about mindset and health?

I think we're just scraping the surface, and I think this is the most profound way to affect your life for I thought there's a couple things you'll say about IT. One, no good has ever come from an negative thought. Nothing ever good has come from an negative thought.

And because all of us have a choice about every decision we make, to me, it's always best to make to sand that decision in a positive frame. Now that doesn't mean you're fake about IT, right? People really suffer. People really go mean IT is a very stressful time now, maybe the most stressful time in human history, and there is no need to gloss over and saying life is, you know, peaches and cream because it's not for a lot of people.

But what I know just personally and professionally is that when you start pivoting towards positivity, you get more positivity, right? And all of us, every single human, has an opportunity to do that, that some people with way harder choices, they are doubt a much more chAllenging and difficult hand. Lots of people.

But if we think about IT, we didn't get to choose our color. We didn't choose get to choose our family and get choose where we were born or how we were brought up. But we do get to choose how you respond to those things. And so what i've learned is the more there's never enough positivity I can exit, there's never enough positivity I can be around ever in my life.

IT is just the most amazing thing, and I can never be taken from you, right? And so when we talk about success and longevity and healthy band, to me, positivity has to be a part of that, because the mindset of positivity will override almost everything, literally. And, and I can't tell you how that happens on a biochemical or physiologic Graces.

But I know IT to be a truth. I know IT in the core of my being that the more positive I am, the more I can influence other people's in plant seeds and help people be more positive. And that is something that I cherish and just love, and is not talk about enough precious as a position.

Think about the science and oh, this study and you know, putting people on this medicine, but really the volume. And I made this decision back in two thousand and ten because I had my own practice and I decided to stop taking insurance. And IT wasn't IT wasn't a money thing.

IT wasn't like o IT was because I was no longer valid, taking five to seven minutes with each person and seeing forty patients today. And for me, I felt like i'm not fulfilling my purpose here when i'm just writing prescriptions that my purpose will be a failure. I can really have conversations where I get to know people and peptides and nd time into that, because they are gateways to build trust with me, so that I can actually help you and individual learn how to be more positive and to send to yourself and have that posture.

Because ultimately, all of us need the energy, want the energy to find our purpose, right? I want you find that purpose. Oh my godness life gets magical, right? Because we're all unique.

We all have a different DNA structure. God gave us that to be unique, to shine or light, to contribute, to help others. Most people don't know about that because they are in pain or they're tired or whatever they're suffering.

And we can help walk people through that and help them heal that. That's gonna really good. And that's that's just what I enjoy doing.

Beautifully said, and so grateful to you for doing that within your clinical practice, for making that decision a few years back to shift over to being, you know a line with your purpose and and the way that you've now expanded your practice to public education will provide links to your practice and to your public education efforts and for coming here to do a this a significant public education effort about peptides, es and other compounds and regulatory bodies and also just the field of medicine and also just you know I think so often we hear from scientists or from physicians and we forget the human component and and what's so um what's so beautiful about what you do in the way you do IT is that your humanity really comes through so IT really does I can tell you really care and I know our listeners and yours can tell us well. So thank you as this field evolves and advances um please come back and talk to us again meanwhile again, we'll provide links so that people can find you and some of the resources that back up what we've discussed today. And crag doctor Connie, thank you ever so much you know thank you.

And er no, it's really i'm so honored to be here. Um I respect and love the work you're doing in the light you're signing and you're helping so many. You have such a wide audience that you trust you.

And it's amazing, like I said, I see that every day with people coming to me and and bouncing what you do and say, hey, is this good for me and if that is amazing, I love that that's how we get Better, right? We help support each other um and I just appreciate what you're doing. And being here is truly an honor, really a big deal for me. So thank you.

Thank you. Will take that in and right back at you. Come back again.

I appreciate and appreciate you. Thank you.

Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with doctor crag conver to learn more about his work and his clinic as well as to find links to some of the things discussed in today's episode. Please see the shown note captions.

And if you would like to learn more about peptides, including some of the ones that we discuss today, but also some additional ones, please see the link to the solo episode that I did about pipt tied therapies in the captions. If you're learning from in or enjoy this podcast, please subscribed our youtube channel. That's a terrific zero cost way to support us.

In addition, please subscribe to the podcast on both spotify and apple. And on both spotify and apple, you can leave us up to a five star review. Please check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.

That's the best way to support this podcast. If you have questions for me, your comments about the podcast or guess or topics that you like me to consider for the huberman lab podcast, please put those in the comments section on youtube. I do read all the comments.

For those of you that haven't heard, I have a new book coming out. It's my very first book. It's entitled protocols in Operating manual for the human body.

This is a book that i've been working on for more than five years, and that's based on more than thirty years of research and experience. And that covers protocols for everything from sleep to exercise to stress control, protocols related to focus and motivation. And of course, I provide the scientific substantiation for the protocols that are included.

The book is now available by presale at protocols book dot com. There you can find links to various vendors. You can pick the one that you like best. Again, the book is called protocols and Operating manual for the human body.

If you're not already following me on social media, I am huberman lab on all social media platforms, so that instagram x, formally known as twitter threads, facebook and linton and on all those platforms, I discuss science and science related tools, some of which over lapse with the content of the huberman lab podcast, but much of which is distinct from the content on the huberman lab podcast. Again, that's huberman lab on all social media channels. If you haven't already subscribe our neural network newsletter, our neural network news letter is a zero cost monthly news letter that includes podcast summaries as well as protocols in the form of brief one three page PDF.

Those protocol PDF are on things like neuroplasticity and learning, optimizing domine, improving your sleep, deliberate cold exposure, deliberate heat exposure. We have a foundational fitness protocol that describes a tempt routine that includes cardiovascular lar training and resistance training with sets and reps all backed by science, and all of which, again, is completely zero cost to subscribe, simply go to huberman lab dot com, go to the menu tab up in the upper right corner, scroll down a newsletter and provide your email. And I should emphasize that we do not share your email with anybody. Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion with doctor crag conver. And last but certainly not least, thank you for your interest in science.