My Wife Gave Me an Ultimatum
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Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. She doesn't even necessarily see why a third child would be so difficult because I've made life so much easier, but I'm just out of bandwidth, my man. I got like nothing left in the tank. I hate hearing when men are doing the best they can with the tools they got and their wives or partners run all over them. And here's the bigger deal. It goes undiscussed. What up? What up? What up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm so grateful that you are with us.

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I really am. I'm glad that you're here, plugged in, you got your headphones in, you're on an airplane, you're vacuuming something, you're mowing something, you're fishing somewhere, just going for a walk in the neighborhood because you're just pissed off at the world. I'm so glad that you are with us. We're talking relationships, we're talking your mental and emotional health, whatever you got going on in your life. For 20 years, I've been sitting with hurting people, and here's my promise. I'm going to know the right answer, but I'll sit with you.

We'll figure out what's the next right move. Give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. And we're getting really close to that million subscriber mark on the YouTubes. And again, I want to be bigger than the metrics. I don't care about that.

but i mean a million this guy kind of do like gives me being honest it's kind of cool a million's a million it's a million it's cool um and it is a thing that didn't exist like five years ago so it's not like since i was a little boy i wanted five million not really but the the more people we can help the um the more people that don't feel so alone the more people who get autonomy back in their life the more people who can laugh and just have fun and be free

the better. So hit the subscribe button, hit the like button, the thumbs up, whatever it is. And man, I'm super, super grateful. Let's go out to Cleveland, Ohio and talk to Devin. Hey, Devin, what's up? Devin, that's me. Hey, Dr. John, it's an honor to speak with you, my friend. I appreciate all that you guys do. Thank you, John. That's me. That's you, baby. That's me. So what's up, brother? How can I help?

So the compound question's got two parts. If you'll indulge me like 15 seconds to get that out, I am well prepared. Go for it. I am not well prepared. This ought to be good. This ought to be good. Love it. So when you're the people pleaser in a relationship and always fixing the problems to protect or make your spouse's life easier or help keep

Keep the peace. What do you do when you encounter a problem that you cannot fix? And the second part of that question, we'll see if you can link this together. What do you do when your wife gives you an ultimatum? You give me a third baby or else. You got bigger fish to fry. Walk me back on the people pleaser part. Tell me what you mean by that. Unpack that.

Uh, well, I mean, it's kind of how I've always been. Um, just always kind of walk on eggshells, make sure everything else is taken care of, get everyone else happy. Um, in terms of my relationship, uh, with my wife, it's very much no conflict, just the happy wife, happy life, which is a terrible way to live your life. Um, it's terrible, terrible, terrible. And in a number of ways early on, I would try and come up to like a conversation that was difficult. And I would just kind of get shot down very aggressively, very quickly, uh,

quick rebuke and then punishment like days or weeks of silence. At a certain point, it sort of retreated and was like, all right, I'm not even going to go near the third rail anymore. But what has happened is those small things have gone by and I've kind of laid down. Now we're getting into the bigger complicated life issues and then the communication is just broken. I can't stand up for it. But in terms of like the direct problem here, I'm

I'm kind of the one who's always walking in front to kind of cushion life to make sure everything's okay for her, make sure there's no stress in her life, and do everything I possibly can going above and beyond to make sure there's no issues in her life. I've kind of created a fake ecosystem that she lives in, so she doesn't even necessarily see...

why a third child would be so difficult because I've made life so much easier, but I'm just out of bandwidth, my man. I got, I got like nothing left in the tank. Um, I'm just very stressed out by it all. Um, so people pleasing is, is the one problem. The second part is like, now we've had that, that train of issues not resolved. And we're at this big one that I just, I just can't fix to make her happy, which is devastating to me too. Yeah, man. I hate this for you. Thank you. I hate hearing when men are, um,

Doing the best they can with the tools they got and their wives or partners run all over them. And it doesn't, it goes unnoticed and it goes uncared for. And here's the bigger deal. It goes undiscussed. Because I know millions of men are working their, just working their butts off. And it might not be the right thing, but man, the effort is there in a simple conversation. Like you mentioned, early on.

Changes the entire trajectory of a relationship, but here you find yourself this many years later, and you're at an impasse. This is a weird question. You get something from this excessive amount of people-pleasing. What do you get on the day-to-day? And not just like a friction-free life.

Obviously, I get that you just do whatever she says, eat whatever you want to eat, get whatever couch she says you want to get, and you just go figure it out because it's not worth the fight. But you get something from this as well. What is that? Sure. I think that's a great question. I think I like to be liked where I need to be liked. But the other problem is like,

I do like to be liked, but because I crave that, I lose the respect of the people that I want to like me because they just walk out. That's it. If that makes sense. One million percent. And nobody... I think people want two things simultaneously. They want things to be easy. They want to, quote-unquote, be happy, right? So they want to get whatever they want whenever they want it. And then deep down, nobody really wants that because they know it's not safe, right? Sure. Man...

Do you have an example of a relationship in your life when you finally stood up for yourself and said, I'm Devin, I'm not going to do this anymore?

Yeah. I mean, I didn't, I didn't realize this until I did some real deep thinking as the past three months when this issue on the third baby has come up, I've done like a lot of like soul searching, like, why am I like this? And why am I just so avoidance conflict? I had a, I have a brother, I'm the youngest of five, but my oldest brother was just an absolute monster to deal with. Always pushing everybody around. You don't respect me. Just very, very difficult. And our family, it was very much like, Hey, you just, just,

Just let him go. He's not around all the time. So just, just let him do what he's doing. Don't stand up to him because you have to walk on the actions because if we push back, he might leave the family. And, you know, about five years ago, I finally stood up for myself and was like, you know, in a number of different ways. And I kind of threw him out of the family in a way. But that was the first time I really stood up for myself. But I see kind of tendencies between that and my wife. Like if I kind of dip my toe in there,

It just gets, the rebuke is so quick and so swift. It's just, it's, it's, it's hard to not, um, be conditioned to just like, I'm just going to go back here and just, but it's fine. I won't even be happy. I'll just, whatever you need, I'll do just please don't yell at me. Is that, is that a paper tiger? If you hung in there through the initial, um, high winds, does it crumble pretty fast? Or is she a person who's just full of rage and anger and, um, immaturity?

So that's a great question. See, the thing about it is kind of both. So recently I've started kind of holding my ground because what will happen is generally in a relationship, I've caved. If she wanted something and I was like, I don't know if we could afford that. Eventually I'll cave and just be like, all right, I'll figure something out because I can't figure this out by necessity. I've kind of had to stand up a little bit more because there's just no easy fix to it. Sure. And she has kind of crumbled a little bit, but what has happened is,

over and this is all happened past by three weeks, three months, excuse me, is she'll escalate it. Like the rhetoric. So like in the beginning, like three months ago was like, Hey, uh, if we have a third, I'd be really, I'd be really sad. And then it escalated to, I don't know if I'd ever get over it. And then quickly within like a month, it was, I'll resent you forever if we don't do it. And then it was like, excuse me. And then it was, if

If we don't do it, I'll resent you. But also, I'm going to find a way to have a third baby somewhere with someone else. And, you know, you're going to be back. You're gone. Hey, Devin, you're worth more than this, brother. I appreciate that. I'm not just saying that to be trite. Because your brother, your older brother, didn't become a monster in a vacuum either. You've been living with this crap your whole life. Yeah. True. Is your mom pretty tough on you?

No, I mean, my mom is the living embodiment of a saint. I think probably the other way where she was, she's just so good and doesn't think anything bad about anyone. What about your dad? My dad was kind of, seems very quiet. Um, I think that like very early on with my, my oldest brother, they just kind of got conditioned to like, just let it be that way. Just let it go. And they got run over too. And then it just kind of dripped down to me and the family where I was like, I guess I can't push back ever.

But that's difficult. My dad is deceased now, but my mom's still around. And I don't want to talk to all the dead, but your dad didn't have some nuclear reactor in his chest where he was real quiet and just kind of did his thing. But everybody damn well knew you don't cross that.

No, I mean, it was a really kind child. There was no, like, there really wasn't any anger. I mean, I'm sure that he wasn't a guy who complained. Well, here's where the anger comes. So if there is, and I don't say it's rare, but it's not common. If there's just a pretty remarkable parent,

And then a child's a monster. Like, so who knows what happened when he was at his friend's house, whether he was abused, like who knows, right? It could be anything or it could just be just, let's just say that's just the way that is. There's also a stark resentment and it's hard to go there when on the face, your parents were kind and loving and thought well of everybody. But there is an inner rage in the third and fourth and fifth child, almost universally.

Yeah. Because they're constantly asking the question, why didn't some freaking adult protect us? Yeah, that's a good point. And then you pass that on, and then you try to become the protector for everybody and everything, and the only person you don't protect is you. Yep. And then you wake up at one moment and say, I can't do this anymore. And then it's a weird thing because you find yourself blaming your wife for the world you created for her, right? Yeah.

Yeah, true. And it doesn't give her a pass, but also this is just the ecosystem. So let me like, like getting right to it. I would ask you not to bring a third child into this mess as it currently states sits. Yeah. If I could snap my fingers and have made one more life decision and I could have it, however I wanted it, I would have had a third child. I didn't, but I would have. Okay. Life didn't give that to me. We had a lot of challenges and et cetera, et cetera. But so I love the idea of a third kid. Sounds awesome.

What I want to challenge you on is not incrementally. You can't incrementally change the dynamic of this marriage to the way that y'all are both going to become healthy. There's going to have to be some sort of line because now your wife is threatening divorce. She's threatening infidelity. She's threatening the very foundation that you walk on.

Yeah. Like, in fact, the foundation that you spent a long time curating so that she could have a safe, predictable life, she's like, I'll smash all of it if you don't give me what I want. And it's escalating. And I always look for trends. Okay. Does someone just say something dumb one time? Does someone just have a one night stand? Like, I get those things happen. I look at these trend lines. This is trending in a pretty tough direction. Yeah. Yeah.

At some point, whether it's just y'all two, and if you tell me she can't handle it, she won't. I say can't. She refuses to handle it, which is more likely the case. She's just too immature to do it. Then you're going to have to get a therapist. You have to get a third party. But you have to make the proclamation the way our marriage has been is over. Not doing it anymore. You can't. Does that make sense? And then you have to decide here's what it's going to look like. And she might just say, forget you, dude. I'm out.

Yeah, definitely. I definitely see that. And just kind of update on that is we did agree to go to therapy. We actually went to our first couples therapy yesterday. Okay. How'd it go? It went fairly well. I've gone to therapy myself, including I still go to therapy. I see someone roughly a couple times a month. For how long have you gone? To my therapist? Yeah. About six months. Okay. Has your therapist encouraged any sort of action plan to begin to...

regain autonomy? Yeah, I mean, he thinks I should stand up myself more and be honest. And to be fair, I've just, you know, the other piece of baggage, if I may, is I had a prior marriage that lasted only about two years and then we divorced. And that was a situation where I could never make her happy. And it was just, so coming into this marriage, I also wanted to like, I wanted less conflict. I just wanted to make everybody happy even more. So it's like elevated. And the paradox is,

You get less conflict when everybody's confident of the boundaries. You get more conflict when people don't understand there's a length to how far this rope will just go and I'll just keep pulling it. Yeah, no, it's 100% true. So we had our first couple therapy yesterday. It went relatively well. I give her a lot of credit for going because she's very resistant to those types of things. But it's strange because I kind of lay out my concerns and there's several. And in theory, kind of like you, I would love a third.

Like, that would be amazing to me. I just don't, I don't think we can pull off. I don't think it's right for our family. We have two kids, obviously. So, but it's like a stalemate. And she's, there's no. You got to understand that the child is the proxy war. Oh yeah. No, a hundred percent.

Because if you have a third kid, it's going to be another thing. You will get me that car. I'm going to find a husband who will. You get me that house in that neighborhood. It's just going to always, it's always going to be moving because there's no boundary. She's anchored into something that is rootless.

you're, you're, you're spot on, which is not surprising because I watch your show quite a bit, but, but like, we're already, we're at the kind of tail end of that, which is the extent of like, um, we've had those other ones where it's like, she wanted to have the big expensive house. We have, we have the car, we have other things. And all those times it was always me,

fucking under the pressure of her leaving or her separating or something. And I'll figure it out. I'll figure out, okay, we'll look at how to put it. But now we're at that point now where it's like, I can't just snap my fingers and give us what we need to have this baby. So like, I know this is a proxy because if, if this damn breaks and we have a third, um, there'll be a conversation a year now about a fourth or an addition on the house or a beach house or a car or something like she's also in, it's not fair. She's not on the phone.

Um, but like, she's a person who's never backed down and she's never been told no by her family when they were growing up. Sure. So it's very, she found someone who would never tell her no, like pathologically. Well, it's not though it's, it's drowning her and it's about to cost her her marriage. She doesn't even know it. That's why I think the most compassionate thing you can do. And it sounds counterintuitive is to say no more.

The conversation about a third child ends, and I won't engage in it for one calendar year because we have too much work to do. It's like adding a new roof on a house whose basement is completely flooded. Not even having the conversation about it. It's madness. Yeah. Because this relationship cannot hold. That's my concern. No, no, no. Devin, you're starting to avoid it now.

Well, but yeah, I mean, but the, the, the reason why that last part is difficult for, for her is because like, she's, we're older now. And so this would like, we couldn't even, if a third was an option, like my, my view is we have to fix the marriage. How old are you? How old are you? I'm 38. She's 39. My neighbor across the street last night, we were hanging out for a long time. He's got a little bit less than a one-year-old and he's 41 years old.

Y'all are fine. You're fine. And 100%. Hold on. Let's stop talking about her for a second. Just listen to me. This has been your pattern your entire life for almost 40 years. What you've done is not working anymore. You have a choice. You can just keep going. You're going to end up with a third kid, and you're probably crafty enough to figure it out and bury yourself in the process just like your parents did. If that's your choice, choose that, hold your head up high, and then go on about your day.

But if you choose something different, it's going to feel radically uncomfortable. And not only from her, from your inner compass, because your inner compass says you have one job and that is to bury yourself and make sure everybody else gets whatever they want whenever they want. Yeah. And so the discomfort, like I hear you challenging me and I'm not mad. I'm not frustrated. In fact, I'm loving you for it, but I'm hearing you play out the last 40 years in real time.

Yeah. Which is math doesn't matter. Two plus two equals four doesn't matter. It's not safe. I'm just going to tell you it's two plus two equals five and let's move on with our day. And if you look at, and I'm looking at this culturally, that's kind of the cultural narrative we have. And dude, we've ended up in on the moon. Like facts aren't even facts anymore. You know what I mean? True. Like data is not data. Reality is not reality.

We live in a video simulation. It's so strange, but it's this idea that there has to be some innate discomfort to say, I want to be a part of a marriage where we're both working towards something, not where I am a servant. I am not a maid in my own home. I am not a direct deposit. I am a co-creator of an amazing life. And both of us get to choose that. Yeah. Yeah. One thing I've struggled with on top of all this is like, I've,

My belief on kind of in the marriage is, you know, I think you said before, once before, like you're kind of underneath it all. You're not above it. You're like underneath. That's right. Like you're holding everything up almost. But there's like this weird line between like serving them and being a servant. And like I struggle with that. Like I'm doing everything because I feel like I'm here to serve my family. Look, you can get under a squat rack. I did legs this morning. You can get under a squat bar and lift it and hold it.

Also, a doormat is underneath everything too, where people wipe the dog crap off their shoes on you. That's my problem, right? There's a difference. Yeah, I have a hard time with that. One is about stability and strength, and I will be a foundation. And the other is I'm a doormat. But that means you have to ask yourself the terrifying question, what do I actually want and what do I actually need? And I don't think you've ever done that.

No, I don't think that I have. And I'm telling you right now, you're communicating to your kids. You don't get wants and needs. Your wants and needs are to be a donkey for everybody else in your life. To ride on, whip, carry, drag, whatever. Yeah. And donkeys don't co-create. They just do what they're told.

Yeah. And like I, deep down, I can't really blame anyway, my wife, in some ways, my wife for it. Cause I did build this, this ecosystem that she's capitalizing on. Let's, let's move blame out of the context. That's not going to do anything for anybody. That's where the conversation and it can be done with your therapist. That's where the conversation is so critical to say, however, we got here, we're here. Does it matter if we took a right turn, a left turn, four lefts, two rights, then we went on the back road, went over, over pet. Doesn't matter. We are here right now. I'm not driving anymore.

until we get a new map that we're gonna draw up together and it's gonna have a destination on it that we both agree on, period, end of story. And that destination is gonna be hard for us. We've never done it before. Never had a budget, never made a choice together. We've never chosen to not go out. We've never chosen a smaller house because we have goals 25 years from now. We have goals for our grandkids.

We've never said we're not going to, we're not going to, we don't even know how to do that, but that's our roadmap. That's where we're headed. And we're going to do that together. You've never done that. And so at some point you just say, I'm done driving fast.

In this car, this car, I'm not driving it anymore. I would love for you to get in this other car with me. And then we're going to build a map together. And then we're going to create a destination. We're going to go get there. The underwater over bridges. We have to walk some hike some, but we're going to go make that happen. And you're in a good position because you have that with your therapist. My recommendation is you write out. What do you want?

when it comes to dinner, when it comes to, I want to be taken seriously. I want to, I want us to do a budget together every week. I want us to exercise together, whatever it is. I don't care. You get to decide that, but you have to be willing to put it down on a piece of paper. And brother, you got to be willing for her to look at it and go, screw you, I'm out. If that happens, you have to understand she said, screw you, I'm out a long time ago. And she's just been using you as an ATM deposit machine. That's it. If she says, my God, you're right. I can't believe we got here. I would love to build something new. And I don't even know how

And you got a therapist saying, I got you. I'll walk alongside you. Thanks for the call, man. You're worth sitting down and figuring this out. What do I want? What do I need? And then, man, you got to write it down. You got to communicate it and do it in front of a therapist because she hasn't been able to hear it. And you can have some compassion for her, but have some compassion for yourself. She's dragged you around long enough. She's beat you up long enough. She's threatened you enough. You're a good man. You're worth having somebody that builds life with you.

Thanks for the call, man. We'll be right back.

A lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life, and it's the worst thing.

If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life.

Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost.

Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right, let's go out to Akron, Ohio and talk to Mary, Mary. Why you but... What's up, Mary?

I had a feeling you'd be asking me while I'm bugging. And here it is. One of my favorites of all time. What's up? All right. So thank you so much for taking my call. Of course. My question for you is, should I confront my dad about possibly having a son that no one is acknowledging or should it be let go? Sweet. I love it. So great. What happened? Jerry, Jerry. What happened?

All right. So there's a lot of information here. But a few years ago, my sister found a picture of the son of the woman that used to work for our dad back in the 80s. So this boy is, guy, I don't know, is only three months younger than I am. And he is a carbon copy of our dad.

um, like looks nothing like his mom, dad, brother. Um, and since years ago, when we first found that picture, that first picture, um, it's become, I feel like even more and more evident that he just looks exactly like our dad. And cause you got a picture, give me another piece of data. Um, so, uh, let's see. So, uh, back, like I said, back in the, um,

They worked together. She worked for him. They worked often like late at night, things like that. He does have a history of cheating. I don't think that this one was, I don't think this one was caught specifically. I mean, they made a person. Do you really think in your guts, your mom has no idea? No, that's the thing. So my sisters and my mom,

No, we all know this. So this is kind of, is your mom still married to your dad? She is absolutely not. Okay. Okay. She is not though. Okay. Here's what I would do. I would, I would leave my dad out of it. Do you have a relationship with your dad? Uh, yes. So I actually work for my dad. Cause why not? Let's make this super weird. It's awful. Have you ever met this other guy? This, this brother of yours maybe?

Yes, we actually all have. They're from neighboring towns. My dad actually periodically has talked about him and his family to us. I have met him. My sister has met him. My husband has met him. And my dad actually sees this boy and his family on like a weekly basis at their social club. All right, here's what we're going to do. Are you ready? Yeah. I want you to just like...

quote-unquote bump into him like at a local coffee shop and then take his coffee cup and like then run out the door with it and then go to like one of those places that they have in spy movies where you can like get the DNA off of it and then they'll put it in like the the Megatron converter like they have on CSI and you'll know or here's the second thing that would be the way I want you to do it because I'd make for a really good YouTube show but number two is

I would call this guy and say, I have a sneaking suspicion. Would you be willing to take a 23 and mate with me? So this is my conundrum because, or our conundrum, since we all know about this, it's like he has been brought up in what appears to be a very good family. He has two loving parents. He has a really great- His whole life is a lie if this is true.

Yeah. And I, for one, am not participating in lies anymore. Because you know why? You've been part of a lie your whole life. Extremely. And if you have a brother, it would be cool to get to know him. Maybe. Maybe it wouldn't be. Which is the bigger cost? Keeping it or getting it out there? I've yet to see where keeping a ginormous...

Atomic family secret helps anybody in the long term. Right. I mean, I know that that does really...

It just makes us feel like I'm going to speak for myself. It makes me feel like I'm often living a lie because obviously I am in a lot of regards. And especially when these people are mentioned to us, it makes me, I would say, just kind of makes us sick. Like it's this dangling thing out in front of us. Can I tell you, you're ignoring something really big, huge. What is it? I'm sure you're right, but what is it? You are sick, sick.

I hate to use this word. It's just one coming to my head. You're grossed out by Mary. You know why? Because you're raised by a cowardice man who lacks integrity. And now that's your boss. That's where you go every day. You take a paycheck from this person. Yeah. And there's a part of you every day you clock in or whatever salary you take, you know that the person you're working for lacks the most basic level of integrity.

He won't even acknowledge a son, a child. That means he is untethered to any sort of integrity or dignity. He'll do anything. You're 100% correct on that. And that means you have found yourself slowly participating, which means you're becoming him. And you hate that.

Oh, God. Stop. You hit the nail on the head because you are, oh my gosh, you're absolutely right. I've seen that. Stop. Stop. It's a charade. And yes, I know this will come with economic consequences and I'm not saying do it today. Right. But without, so I guess, you know, I'm, I've always been like, my biggest worry is going through this and obviously bringing this to light and then obviously being like gas lit about it.

And having no proof in technically. That's why I go straight to that dude. That's why I go straight to that dude. That's why talking to someone who has been a human being who does not tell the truth, who lies to those closest to him, it's a complete waste of your time. Oh. I have a rule. I only bring up hard things. I only have conversations. I only say things to people who will hear them.

Okay. And you have a deceptive, lying, potentially, father. And let's take this one off. You say he has a history of infidelity. He's been cheating on your mom for their marriage? Yes, I've been around numerous girlfriends my whole life. Okay. And I won't ask about business stuff, but I know the data says that there is a high correlation. So, like, you know all of this. I do. Yeah.

And so asking the person in the middle of it is of no value to you. You know that answer. What I would want to know is forget my dad. Is that guy my brother? And if so, I want to interact with him. And he may say, that guy is my dad. I know for certain he told me a long time ago. That guy may say, I've had my suspicions or whatever. And I agreed to not say anything. Or he might say, dude, I've been wondering my whole life. I would love to do a 23 and meet with you.

Interesting. I just never really felt like that was my place to get into his business, even though it could be my business. This is your business too. Right. This is your business too. Yeah. And I guess I've also been very, I guess, scared to pull any threads that could unravel the little threads.

that I do, I guess, have with my dad. You don't have a connection. It's false. It's fake. It's not real. It's a charade. Both of y'all are playing. You're playing like, yeah, I love him. He's my dad. I trust him. I work for him. And he is like, yeah, I'm playing a charade like I'm a good present father who takes care of my daughter. No, he doesn't. Oh, well. I mean, am I wrong? No. No. It's just, it's a puppet show. That just hurts to hear. Yeah, it's brutal. It's brutal. Oh, okay.

I mean, does he overpay you for the job you're in? In no way, shape, or form. Could you get another job in Akron, Ohio for a similar wage? Potentially. Probably, yeah. I mean, I know that I'm smart and very capable. I do more than, yeah, absolutely. Okay. But then I don't have that one thing, I guess. And I'm telling you right now, you don't have it now. It's not a real thing. Yeah, you're sitting next to a ghost. Okay.

Oh, I hate it for you. It breaks my soul for you. Yeah. And you need to hear me say to 14 year old Mary, do this was never your fault. Right. But it's not about him. It's about you deciding I am going to live in the light and anybody who wants to live in the light with me, I would love to have you here, but I can't drag you. I can't, I can't, I can only choose my freedom and my freedom means I don't live around lies anymore. Yeah.

Oh, that's a big one. I just, I feel like that's what the entire basis of most things in my life has been built on. I know. And it's been that way your whole life, isn't it? 100%. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Can I ask you an even harder, scarier question? Oh, yes. Are there secrets that your husband doesn't know? No, I don't think so. He's...

I think he's been the last few years. He's been horrified at the truth that have finally come out of me. No, no, no, no, no. That's what I'm talking about. Not your, not your, not, not the Jerry Springer show. That is your extended family. Okay. Are there things that you don't tell him? I mean, I don't, I don't know how to answer that because I don't know if there's things that I just don't even tell myself. Okay.

Here's what I'm asking. Apples and trees. Often kids who grow up in these situations where the whole family knows you just don't say certain things, and then you can kind of do what you want to do. You just don't say it, and everybody smiles, and you move on with your life. Those turn into your family too. Right. And you have things going on at work. You have things that coworkers that you text back. You have whatever goes on in the world, and husband doesn't need to know.

We're good. Or there's... No. Okay. If there's not, awesome. Yeah. I would say not. Amazing. We did go through difficult patches, 100%. Everybody goes through difficult patches. Not anymore. Okay. What I want to encourage you is if you are experiencing freedom in your own marriage, in your own home, we just call it like it is. We tell each other whatever it is. We just say it. I want you to extrapolate that to the rest of your life, man.

And let's say you call it. Let's say you call that dude this afternoon. Say I need to have a private conversation with you over coffee. And you slide the DNA test across the table and say, I think you're my brother. Maybe I'm crazy, but I think you're my brother. Would you take this? Ooh. Okay, let's just pretend. Let's say he said, you're a crazy lady, and he runs out and calls your dad. And your dad blows up. Yeah. What have you lost? I guess...

Is that what you would call what you have right now? I'm used to it. Okay, that's fair. That's fair. But it's not, I mean, it's not, I wouldn't say stability or safety or anything like that. Yeah. Okay, maybe that's a good way to say it. You're trading normalcy for wellness. You're trading the known known for the unknown. And the unknown could be worse. It could be, theoretically. Yeah.

The unknown could be amazing. It could be freeing, heartbreaking, something to grieve, but it could be amazing. So I, all I can do in this situation, not you, I don't have to live with the repercussions. So it's easy for me just to like throw my two cents in the, in, you know, in the ring. I would not have this conversation with my dad because he's proven himself to be somebody who's not trustworthy over and over and over and over and over and over again. I would need to know, do I have a brother?

And so I would sit down with that man and say, I need to have a cup of coffee with you. And I'm going to ask you to keep this quiet between us, but I know I can't control you. And I'm choosing to not try to control anybody else anymore. I just want to live in the light. I have a sneaking suspicion in my guts that you're my half-brother, and I'd love to figure that out, find out if that's true or not. Would you be willing to do it? That's what I would do if it was me. That's what I would do if it was me. Mary, if you choose to have this conversation with him, please do me a favor and let us know.

There'll be a whole bunch of people listening who want to know, is he actually your brother or not? Thanks for the call. You're awesome. We'll be right back. Hey, it's Deloney from my friends at Helix, makers of the best mattresses in the universe. Listen, I've slept everywhere and on every type of mattress surface imaginable. You name it, and I've tried it. And my sleep on the Helix mattress has been transformed. I'm achieving newer levels of deep, deep sleep.

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All right, we are back. Let's go to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and talk to Marcy. Hey, Marcy, what's happening? Good morning. Thank you, Dr. Deloney, for your time today. Thank you for calling. What's going on? My question to you today is, how can I work through the emotional numbness I'm experiencing after witnessing a traumatic event? Yikes, what happened?

Well, I'll provide a little color context around my question. So I was on the front row at the Trump rally where the assassination attempt on Trump's life took place. Wow. On the front row. Yeah, I was. Right in front of him or right behind him? In front of him.

Yeah, and I was right below where Cody was sitting, and I unfortunately watched as he got shot and as the CPR was performed. Okay, stop right there, stop right there, stop right there. Where is that in your body right now? I don't know. I guess kind of in my tummy. Kind of makes me sick still. Okay. Close your eyes for me and picture seven or eight men and women rushing that stage.

Where is that in your body? I think it's still kind of in my tummy area, I guess. Okay. Put your hand on there right now as you're telling me this. Okay. Okay. So then you see him doing CPR on this man? Yeah. Okay. The scene turns pretty chaotic? Yeah, for sure. Okay. Were you with family, friends?

Well, unfortunately, prior to the event, a situation had happened and I had ended up

going to the front to save a spot for my husband and mother-in-law. But unfortunately, they had only anticipated around 5,000 to 7,000 people to be in attendance, and over 15,000 people showed up. So unfortunately, the crowd became so large and tightly packed that...

They couldn't make their way to me before the rally began, so we ended up being separated. Okay, why don't you do me a favor? Close your eyes again. And I want you to picture those seven or eight men and women storming the stage. And you look over and see them doing CPR. And then I want you to imagine yourself turning around to see where your husband and your mother-in-law are. Where's that in your body? It still feels in my tummy. I mean, that's exactly what I did. That, oh God, I'm all by myself.

Yeah, for sure. Do me a favor. Drop your shoulders. Oh, God, I'm all by myself. Is that in your guts? Yeah, for sure. Okay. Take a big, deep breath. Let it out. Okay, then what happened? Yeah, there was just a lot of confusion. Obviously, I couldn't see them, and...

They were, I guess they blocked the cell signals. And I guess I understand they do it for safety in case there were being multiple shooters. So they can't communicate. But then neither could we communicate with anyone else either. So, you know, I was immediately calling, texting. And, you know, there was just no way that I could get through to them. Yeah. I'm sorry you were in all that. I'm sorry that you saw what you saw. You're not supposed to see that stuff.

Yeah, that's for sure. And nobody's supposed to feel that alone. It's amazing what we can absorb when we're with people that we know are in our gang. It's extra terrifying when you see that, when you experience that, and you feel the chaotic. The words that we used to use in the crisis world is when something sets off and you look around and you got no gang, you're on your own. Yeah, that was definitely the feeling for sure. Can I ask you a personal, personal question?

Sure. When you finally got reconnected, you got home. Let me ask you this. Over the past month or two, how much news coverage have you watched of this? YouTube coverage, social media coverage? Yeah, I've watched an awful lot of it. I really have because in some ways, one, I've never been under live fire before. Sure. Most people in America haven't, right? Right.

Yeah, that's probably true. But yeah, I mean, you want to get every little ounce of what possibly happened and see every view of the situation that you possibly can. I'm going to tell you something crazy. I'm going to tell you something wild. Okay. What your body is engaging in is a very modern phenomena.

The ability to watch something I was presently a part of with 55 million angles and 10,000 different opinions and conspiracy theories and drama and this and that, that is a very, very recent moment in human history. And our bodies are not designed to replay and replay and replay. And what you're experiencing is some version of freeze. Okay. Your body has captured the moment and is frozen in it.

And what you're trying to do is to gather all the data points you possibly can so that in some fantasy, you can keep this from happening again. Okay. That's interesting. And here is a terrifying truth. You can't. None of us can. In our current world, if somebody wants to hurt a whole bunch of people, by and large, they can. And that is a new terror for those of us in the United States. It's a terror that

I mean, if you go overseas, I remember asking a friend and she was stationed in South Korea and I was like, are you not worried? And she just pulled a gas mask out of her purse. And I was like, that's not normal. And she goes, it is for me. Wow. It's just new for us. And so we, we freeze and we think that more data, if I can get a better look at the lion that tried to attack me, I'll be able to watch out for it next time. Okay. And so you process it alone and then more alone and then more alone and

And you go down rabbit holes and more rabbit holes. Here's what I'm trying to tell you to do. You got to turn it off. You were there. You know. You were there. Yeah. Yeah, I was. And you realize, more so than most of us, how fragile life is and how you are literally feet and or inches away. Mm-hmm. For sure. And what you have to do is let your body process this. And that's going to be, for you, a choice because you are so cleansed right now. Okay.

and i guess i'm just not really sure how to do that no i got it i know i know i struggle with it too and i know how and i struggle with it because there's a part of your body that has said i will never feel this scared again and the way it has done that is by trying to grab every shred of everything in the environment and unfortunately the way to heal is to say i could have died i watched somebody right in front of me die

I was at an event that they will write about in 150 years in our textbooks. I was terrified. I was scared to death. I couldn't find my husband. I couldn't find my mother-in-law. I was all alone. And then healing is, but I'm okay. I made it. I'm safe. And that feels very powerless to go through that process. And I have not figured out any way, shape, form, or fashion that a person can do that on their own. As the great David Kessler says, grief demands a witness.

I watched another person die. I watched another person get shot and almost die within a quarter of an inch. I watched what I thought would have been a safe place become a very unsafe place. The foundation that I walk on has been shaken. Yeah, I mean, of any place you would think that was one of the safest places because in my mind you have FBI and Secret Service all over the place and watching us all closely. And it happened.

And so exhaling is about metabolizing it. This happened to me. Sometimes I'll have somebody write a letter and they have to read it to somebody else who was there. This also means that you have to have a husband who can be scared with you and say, I didn't know what happened. I had a thought that my wife might have died. I, as this provider and protector, I couldn't protect my wife. I didn't even know where she was. I just knew she was down there by all the chaos.

In a strange, weird way, it would be healing for you to hear from your husband, I was terrified that I'd lost you. Processing this type of trauma comes from, and this goes counterintuitive, comes from vulnerability. It comes from saying the truth out loud and being heard. Prevention of this happening again doesn't come from vulnerability. It comes from thinking and strength and architectures and designing and engineering, creating worlds that are safe. But the processing of we almost just died,

Comes from two people looking at each other or three people looking at each other and saying, what was your story? And saying it out loud and not letting news pundits and YouTube yahoos and internet, whatever, they don't get a vote on this. And by the way, people are going to tell you, you have to cry, you have to scream, you don't have to do anything your body doesn't want to do.

Yeah, that's one thing I can't cry since it's happened. And I'm not the type of person to cry at the drop of a hat, but neither am I the person that, you know, if something is very sad or, you know, I mean, I will cry and I just, I can't cry at all. Do you have a sense of your body feeling clenched up? Yeah, I mean, I definitely feel very stressed and tense sometimes.

Like I can feel it all in my muscles, I feel like. Yeah. And your hand back on your tummy, like right there in your guts. Here's my recommendation to you. I want you to propose to your wife and your mother-in-law. Tell her you heard it from some guy on the YouTubes. Okay. That we write down maybe a couple of paragraphs on what happened, what we experienced. But I want you to spend a couple of paragraphs on what you felt. Okay. I was scared. Couldn't find you. I felt lost. I missed you.

Whatever words come to mind and encourage your husband not to be tough guy McGee. And I'm not saying he is, but he might be. I would be tempted to write, I was ready to dominate instead of what was underneath that, which is, oh my God, I thought I lost my wife. And there's just a knowing from sitting around each other and saying, here's what I felt and here's what I experienced. And now we're all safe. And the goal is to let your body unclench. It's metabolizing it. It's experiencing it.

And then you have to make a choice. I'm not going to keep replaying this thing over and over and over and over and crystallize that 3D experience. You lived it. It's in your body. You don't need to watch it over and over again. Yeah, it's hard not to go through it in my mind, though, over and over and over again. And that rumination, that rethinking, is your body's way of playing it over and over so that if this ever happens again, you'll be safe this time.

And you also realize just how random, just how random there's no amount of, you know what I mean? There's no amount of planning. There's some choices you can make in the future. Like I'm never going to go forward without my, without my family, or I'm never going to go to a big rally again. Or I like, you can make those kinds of choices, but getting in the car random, some guy just is texting on the way to work and it's all over for five different cars. Right? I mean, it's just, that's our life. And we, we have this illusory, uh,

insulation to it all. And so when it happens, remember the line, grief demands a witness. Your body will hold it until it has a safe place to exchange it. And by the way, this is a hard conversation. And if your husband won't do it, then you need to go talk to a counselor and say, I need to process this story. I'm not saying you need therapy. Hear me something different. You've got to find somebody that you can have this hard conversation. You can just let it be. And you might have to have it a couple of times. And you're going to get to a point where the rumination becomes a choice. Okay?

When that lightning bolt pops into your head of the panic and your eyes get real wide and you look over and see them doing CPR on Cody, you can keep that picture in your mind. Or you can choose the moment when you saw your husband and y'all run and grab each other and hug. You can't stop the lightning bolt. You can't stop that initial image in your mind, but you can choose what you meditate on afterwards. And so if you have that picture when you first saw your husband and you ran up and he grabbed you and you grabbed him,

Just have that ready to go. Every time you have a scary thought about this situation, we're going to go there. Because that replaying the scary parts feels like helpful thinking, and I'm telling you right now, it's not. How does that all sound? Yeah, I mean, that makes sense to me. And just, I guess, just the thought process that I can control my thoughts. Like I can't maybe control the first thing that pops into my head, but just choosing not to think about it or just... No, no, no, don't not think about it.

That's called burying it. Or here's the language. You bury it or you compress it way down. What's another word for compress? What do you do with it? Stuff it down in. Yeah. You take a popsicle stick and you put it on your tongue. What do they call that when you mush it down? I'm not sure. You depress it. You depress. Yeah. We're not going to do that. We're not going to depress it down into our body.

We're going to find somebody who's safe and we're going to say it out loud. When the thought pops in our head, we're not going to get out of our thought head, which by the way reinforces it. We're going to replace it. Okay. With, oh my gosh, I see him, I see him, I see him. And I go running and we grab each other and we hug. I'm sorry you were there. I'm sorry you saw that. I'm sorry all that. That's a part of your lived experience now. And I'm so grateful that you're safe. So grateful that you're safe. And for everybody who experiences this deep level of tragedy, sees things you're not supposed to see,

it feels like we're supposed to go watch it over and over again. It feels like we're supposed to dissect it and pull it apart. That makes rational sense, but it doesn't aid in healing. What aids in healing is sitting down from somebody else and saying, yeah, you too? Yeah, me too. I thought I was all gone. I thought I was lost. And yet here we are. Can I hold you? Can I touch you? Oh, there's that thought again. There's that thought of my spouse with somebody else who we cheated on. There's that thought of that person doing CPR. There's that thought of that car coming right at me.

I'm going to choose to think about something else. And I'm going to have a picture ready to rock and roll. And this is not easy and it takes time and you cannot do it by yourself. But there'll become a season if you do the hard work where I can think about what happened and my body doesn't take off on me, doesn't freeze on me. I feel it and then I go do the next right thing. That's healing. And if you find yourself looped and looped and looped and looped, that's when you need to go see somebody. When you just say, I can't, can't do it. I don't have anybody who will listen to me. Yeah, I'm going to go see a professional then. Thanks for the call, Marcy. You're a gift and a blessing.

For everybody else, repeatedly watching tragedy does not lead to healing. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back. I'm so proud that Thorne Supplements, my favorite supplements on the planet, have continued to partner with me and our show listeners for health, longevity, and just feeling good.

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Go to thorn.com slash you slash Deloney. That's thorn, T-H-O-R-N-E dot com slash the letter U slash Deloney for 25% off everything in the store. I trust Thorn. My family trusts Thorn. And you can trust Thorn too. All right, we're back. Kelly, what did I say on the socials? All right.

No one has ever changed how they treat and love people because someone yelled just the right thing in their face. No one has ever been bullied into being more compassionate, open-hearted, and open-minded. People open their hearts and minds in relationship and connection. People change because of love. If someone wants to fight you over nonsense, let them ride. Yeah, it's just...

I mean, that's just our world. We scream at each other and we just yell louder and louder and louder. And nobody is asking that old famous Dr. Phil question, how's that working for you? And we look around, it's not working.

I keep going back to this when Malcolm Gladwell was – we were both speaking at the same event, and he said before you debate any topic, quickly pull out a piece of paper, and I'm paraphrasing, but write down 100 things or 1,000 things that you want for your kids and ask the person that you want in front of you. What are things you want for your kids?

Cool. Exchange those lists before you debate. And what you're going to find is y'all want about 99 to 98% of the same things for each other's kids. Maybe one or two things are different. Let's debate those two things. But we're going to debate on a bedrock of, did I see you? Same team. Instead of approaching each other and screaming, it's not working.

And so I'm just at a point now, someone wants to yell, I'm out. I'm not going to listen. I'm going to move on with my life because it literally accomplishes zero things ever, ever. And yes, parents, if you yell at your kids, they might take out the trash and you have lost them. Coaches who scream at their athletes, not to get their attention over the sound of a crowd, but who scream to exert power, you've lost them. Yeah, they'll run the play.

you have lost the influence and love and compassion over those people. They will not be changed, men and women. And it goes on and on and on. Politicians, everybody. If you want to exert power, knock your lights out. If you want to change people for the better long-term, pull up a seat at the table. Love you guys. Bye.