#2235 - Mike Rowe
03:06:22 Share

The joe rogan experience.

Get coffee, my rose. Scroll over their norn. So what will you do in on qvc?

What you sand that was, was the greatest line from placing cells. By the way, when gene hack ben, he says, sickies, remember, Peter boy has come. He had just left. And gene hackman is there after getting the soup built in his lap, and he's basically saying, I had cigars. The creature storms off in Frankston.

I don't remember that so long since I seen that .

movie best.

He's a little bit of a fuck and distraction. Can he a calm down trying? We hear headphones had phones .

are about me. No, carl, an omen.

We warm out. Jamie was thrown the toy for carl .

and how he's such a great dog. He's Scott. I mean, he's adorable. I mean, it's it's such a personality thing at that for me with dogs and pets in general, you know like, you know right away, if this thing has a personality.

he's got a lot of got a lot of personality and no doubt about that yeah and kid and .

a person name, which I think is super interesting minds fredy is a terrier.

I like a dog, a person you like, focus A I no one knows well, actually. Oh no, that's file O. I was thinking of clinic would in every which way, but lose. He was final.

Better to could also be final. Farnsworth, who created the television for real? Yeah.

the only one guy do IT was one of those like light bob type deals. We're like a bunch people scrambling for IT.

And what do they call that like like a hive mentality like .

that happened .

with the integrated circuit, right? When kill b at radio shack was doing the same basic work. I think that Robert noise was doing for intel, and one was here in texas and the other was in california, and they had never met and they had never compared notes. But the work on the circuit tory was so close that they wound up sharing the nobel prize.

Oh that's interesting.

super super strange but that .

I no common thing with human beings in and I is this concept of morph residence. Have you ever heard that concept? Uh rupert shell drink. He wrote about this and the ideas and it's based on some actual facts to about there's um some real statistics about rats, like if you teach a rat how to run amazes in on the east coast, a rat on the west coast will run .

IT faster.

It's like they learn the pattern somehow. Another it's very bizarre. There's like information that apparently shared across species. And the idea is that somehow another they're quantum ly entangled, like that the entire group of these specific types of animals are quantum bly entangled or entangled in some way that we don't understand.

So it's a kind of, I mean, that I would think biological evolution might look with that. I read a paper, guy wrote, name was patrol. This was his PHD. And he was talking about toxic plasma, gandhi I and history, plastic sis, and is a crazy paper.

His real premise was trying to understand the phenomenon of the cat lady and why, why, why every culture like this isn't, you need to amErica in every culture you can find a woman who, you know, two cats, three cats may be, but like when all the way to thirty eight, right? And just was like this, perfectly Normal. So his paper was, what happens to a person's brain to tell IT it's Normal to have thirty eight cats.

And then IT gets super complicated because he identifies a gandhi ee that lives in the cats gut and and basically breeds there. And what you learned was when the cats were a crapping, the gandhi, I come out, and then the rats and the mice that ate the cat crap, something was happening to their brains. On a neurological level.

This gandhi, I basically disabled the part of the brain that would tell an otherwise sentient rat to run from the cat. But suddenly they weren't running, they became prey, they became docile, and the cat started a glittering the mice and population, because this thing that was breeding in its as was effectively making its prey easier to catch. So doctor house thought, well, you know, we've all heard about why pregnant women should stay away from cats, that that can have an effect.

And a rats brain and a human brain have a surprising number of of parallels. So he basically postulated that Doris, the cat lady, was live in a fairly Normal life until he got just a little bit catch our fingers and and aid. And the gandhi, I disable the partner, her brain, that said, hey, maybe two cats is not.

It's worse than that. IT actually makes the rats sexually attracted to the smell of cat urine.

Exactly right.

yeah. That actually makes them aroused. Yeah, yeah.

Now I don't know if doors went that far.

You seen them like, run up the cats. The talks so infected lazarre. They run up the fox going to cats like, bounds away from .

the road watching the beatles at eleven theater. You know the people like.

what's wrong with you people? Why what's happening I chose is yeah yeah .

that's super you know .

this also a disproportion number of motorcycle victims. The test .

positive for toko yeah .

makes people more impulse sive IT makes them more uh reckless and impulse sive. And um countries that have high rates of talks to plasma have more successful soccer teams.

I read and I think that more of these i'm like, I don't want to compete. I'm gonna SE. But you'll love this if you probably do you know IT homeostatic risk and risk will liberum and the unintended consequences, especially with motorcycle riders that emit from safety protocols, gone too far?

really?

Yeah so like every like if you study the way you drive your motorcycle, like you measure your every decision that you make in terms of cornering and speed and breaking and all that stuff uh and then you measure the same things with all the safety gear employed, including a helmet, especially a helmet, you drive faster, you corner tighter, you take more chances.

Because the risk equal, a liberum that we all have in our brain is different from one person to the next. But what's the same is our desire to compensate for the environment around us. So compensate risk and the subconscious decisions that we might make behind the wheel when we're buckled up first is not buckled up when we have ABS breaks as supposed to not having.

They did a big survey in berlin years ago where they took half of the taxes, and they put in state of the art breaking systems and half of them and left the others the same. And then they hooked up the the cars to monitor every driver decision. In virtually every case, the drivers with the Better safety gear took more chances because their brain is subconsciously compensating, right?

It's the same.

Yeah I mean, it's it's controversial but I I understand IT it's why the most dangerous intersections have signs that tell you when to walk and we're not to walk and and cross because you, the little man is walking IT says, go so you step off and there's the big blue boss and then and then you're spattered so yeah, the unintended consequences of following traditional safety protocols has always really been interesting.

Well, IT completely make sense. If you have a vehicle that's more able and capable, you're gonna probably drive IT faster and you're probably going to take more risks because I can do stuff like guys used to think. I used to have a lexus SUV big boat left and know what I loved about IT.

I drove slow in IT. I was just like, real because he doesn't stop that. It's not that fast, but it's just, it's big, comfortable. And I just killed me out. And then I had an m three.

I have two cars at the time, and my m three, a zippy little thing, and I was flying around that thing, like, why do I drive different this fucking car than I do in the big car? The big car would just chill me out. I just get that big old boat. I .

just 是， the world was.

like, quiet out there. Nice and relax.

I think it's A I think it's a slightly different analysis liking if if you're going to adjust your behavior consciously to adapt to the to the external ality, right? Like you know, you're going to drive faster if you have a fast car because, you know that's why the guy built the thing and IT would almost be rude, right? IT would be rude to drive a hot rod like a boat. You know it's the unconscious things that you do um when you assume or mitigate risk as a result of employing an external ality that I think is is just super interesting because is .

interesting well.

because if it's right, oh, if it's right, what he does is IT turns all the safety first protocols, not necessarily on their head. But this happened in dirty jobs. I did a whole special called safety third, because because safety isn't really first, not really ever. And because if there was.

you would never get a lot of things done.

You never get .

out studio definitely do .

construction take you think you know anything? It's A I have you going to move .

steel girders of safety first? Like first thing we should do is not move this fucker and girl.

That's right. thanks. Too big. That's right. Look, I mean, for me, I was really IT IT took two years to kind of puzzle IT through because on dirty jobs for the first two years, nobody got hurt.

You know, we were, and we SAT through probably fifty Mandatory safety briefings, whether its minds or confined spaces or high spaces, or you lock out, tag out all those protocols and procedures, super intense. And we were really, really focused on coming home alive and in one piece. So we like really paid attention, but after two years of these Mandatory compulsory meetings and all of these procedures um we all started getting hurt.

I mean not nothing serious but broken fingers and you know crack rib and since off my eyebrows and my eyes lashes and and mild concussions and things like that, like what happening? What was happening is the the safety experts in all of these Mandatory meetings started to sound like member charlie Browns. Teacher, this is otha.

R we were just fall asleep, right? So was like, holy crap. We're in compliance, but we are not out of danger. Got IT. And so that begins the question. What you know what happens to a Normal person who actually comes to believe either on the job sider or just in life, that somebody else cares more about therefore being than they do? And it's like that's when complacency rears its ugly head. So on dirty jobs, we just IT was just short hand among the crew, but IT was always safety third, which meant heads up, man, keep her head on a swivel. You can be, you can be as compliant as you want, but in the end, if you don't want to fall off the bridge, that's it's kind of on you.

Is there also a factor when you have A A person who is the safety officer who's kind of annoying and the. Really like super interested. And maybe you kind of like pn off the the safety aspect to them and then you don't think about IT as much because someone supposedly looking out for you.

How much do you think about proper driving technique when you're sitting in the back on your laptop or even up front next time on his?

For sure, if if I was driving in, my wife is in the backseat.

you'd be paying attention a lot. Shot out. That guy was his name, ashton, who picked me up morning. ExcEllent driver.

Man h glad you're happy with that.

Just say, you know, I mean, I know he drives a lot of your guest and I this is a feedback I want to pass along. He was you very frosty. But yeah, look, I think anytime, anytime that we abcd responsibility, yeah, yeah there's going to be it's like wax, it's onna pop up some play cells and it's probably not going to be in your interest.

Will your show like sort of illuminated a lot of really crazy jobs that people where and aware of that you go, oh yeah, this gudim do this, we'd kind of be fucked yeah and you don't even think about IT yeah, it's just a thing that's going on behind the scenes or rare that .

was IT man IT .

was how did you get started in that? Like who came up with the concept?

Well, I mean, technically, I guess I did. But I mean, I honestly there are no no ideas this I stole this from George clinton, uh, studd turtle a little bit. Charles coral some, paul harvey a little bit know that that kind of story telling was always kind of interesting to me.

And um I I financed for years, probably twenty years in the entertainment business, working pretty much whenever I wanted on shows that I didn't care about at all. And I was I was taken my retirement in early instalments and really happy with the model. You know i've been fired a few times from qvc and hired back.

And IT was one thousand nine hundred ninety three when I finally left, and I had a decent toolbox. I was great in audition so I could get cast, but I did. I didn't really much care about the nature of the work and had a pretty good baLances life really.

And then I was in some fortis co. Working for a cbs on a show called evening magazine. You know the show comes on after sure like the local news and I was a host and I would go um every day this is a cushy gig.

Nobody watched the show, but IT was fun to work on IT was you go to museum, you would go to wineries and then you throw to these raps packages, right? It's all just love. It's if there's a three leg dog in marine overcoming a heart tagging case of canine kidney failure. You know, that was like an evening magic story.

We did this all the time um and my mom called me and I was in my cubicle at cbs and he says, Michael, your grandfather will be ninety years old tomorrow and not my granddad, by the way, seventh grade education, electrical contractor by trade, but also a plummer and steam for the pipe, fabricate fixed anything. He had that that chip, you know and I grew up next to him on this little farms, the north, the ball. And all night I knew I was gonna low in his footsteps.

I knew IT, but the handy gene is recessive, right? I didn't get that. And I was my pop who got me.

He basically said to just get a different. You can be a trade man. I know you're a named red of being a tratement.

Just get a different tools. X so that we ve got me into entertainment. And twenty years later, I I had completely run a muck at sun in the Opera, had sold stuff on q VC Opera years. Man.

did you? We classically trained.

not really.

How did, how did you get involved in the open?

Well, a weird side bar. You go to the rose dee public library and you ask the librarian for the shortest area they have, like ever written, which happened to be by jaco pucci.

Is an area of song.

an as a song, it's the there in an Opera. Most of the big moments are areas right and and most of the areas or you know I mean there they're sung by the main characters and there are lots of ones that you would ze and the memory german, they are in italian. For the most part of this one was italian.

IT was from lab om, which is just another version of rent, essentially. But I was called the coat area was only two minutes long, and IT was in italian. So I walked around baltimore with, remember the SONY walk? Man, yeah.

remember one else.

I had one, two. And I listen my my name, Samuel rame, singing the coat area about two minutes and forty seconds. And the words didn't mean anything to me, but the sounds did.

And I can Carry a tune. So I just memorized the sounds and then I crashed. In addition, for the bolt mo Opera in nineteen, no classic .

training at all, just a walkman and a cassez.

Yeah, i'd had a music teacher prior to that, like like a mr. Holland to type a guy who actually changed my life, he kind of fixed the a stammer that I had, and then he forced me to audition for place that I didn't really want to be in. And then the crazier thing ever, this guy, his name was fred king.

He was known as king of the Barbara shoppers. He was like a legend in this weird world of ocp ela singing. And he put me at a barber er shop court tat when I was in high school and opened up like this very weird world of music written long before I was born that I found super interesting. And so my best friends and I we we just started learning these ancient songs and singing for people, usually unsolicited.

from doing this with.

Well, one of them is basically my producer guy called chuck close, mr, who I went to high school with producers, my podcast at. And we still we will write unauthorized jingles for our sponsors and signal for part harmony. I'm not saying it's cool. I'm just saying it's a thing that I did when I was Young and I never really shook IT because that way leads on to way.

right? So you knew how to .

sing I could .

Carry so you'd had some experiences singing kind of, and then you decided you were going to learn how to saying Opera.

Well, what really happened was I decided that my toolbox wasn't gona let me work in the construction trades or do anything my pop could do. And he really was a magician, and I really took his advice seriously. So I wanted to be an entertainment.

I didn't want to be in the Opera. I wanted to be on TV. But I I needed an agent, and I couldn't get an agent less.

I had my screen actors skilled card, and I couldn't get my sag card unless I had an agent. So I couldn't addition for things that I wanted to do unless I found a way around this weird total logy. And a friend of mine guy called mike galt told me, he said, hey, so there's the screen actors killed there at the time.

There was, afterall, i'm sure you were part of both. Yeah, the thing you didn't know about was a gma. The american guild of musical artists is a sister union to the screen actors, skilled and to after, who have since combined.

And the rule back then was, if you could, if you could get into any of them, you could simply pay your dues to the other. And then you you were in. So for me, IT was easier to kind of fake my way into the Opera than IT was on to a set country. So my plan.

this is all diabolical. Well, I made great plan. I mean, it's like that kind of strategic thinking is very valid. You should be in the naive or or something. Well.

I look, I wish I was just trying to get a job.

I know, but it's clever.

But there's always a stage door, right? I think there's always a back way in, right? And so I thought I remembring ed the area I auditioned.

I was stopped halfway, throw IT by the musical director guy name, not see who was like a mr. Roo ua. You have no idea what you're saying at all to you.

What do you say in the words wrong?

You were just repeating the sound. I was singing IT loud and I was singing. I like, like, I understood what I was saying.

All I really understood was the raptor company was desperate for Young men with voices. I knew that. And so I kind of a look the part.

So whatever I got into IT and my plan was to do one production or one season, like they would do three shows in the season. And I had some friends who were in the chorus, and I was just a course member. I'm just hold in this sphere and just sing along with rest, of course.

And my plan was to do one or two of those, get my card and then buy my sag card, and then go about the business of being a famous TV star. right? simple. Well, the music man, the the music was so much Better than I than I imagined that might be. And like, when you get up in the cat walks of like A A real theater, you've done shows in these theatres, this is nothing magically different about them.

But when there's a full orchestra play in the hell out of varity or rock more and off and and you're looking down on the scene, you're looking out at the audience, and the sound is just, just amazing. And the girls, so like their mom, there were eighty, eighty people, I guess, in the rap company, more or less, forty five women, thirty five guys, thirty of the guys had zero interest in one hundred percent of the women. And of the remaining five straight uds, three were married.

And the only other single guy had a, had a mold, the size your fun on his. I lived with thin black hair, like growing out of IT. IT was just, I was the really the only straight food you at the bell, the ball, and i'm dressed like a viking or a pirate.

And i'm going on on stage and i'm a fake. I mean, I admitted I barely learned the language enough to kind of keep up. And people in the in the course took pity on me, you know. And IT was a world, really IT was a world that I didn't know existed. And once I saw IT, I didn't fall in love with IT, but I fell in love with the idea that there were worlds out there that I didn't know anything about, and that where maybe more interesting than I thought. And so I stayed for eight years.

Wow.

yeah I mean, I never got out of the course. I never had like a you know a featured role at a couple lines here and there. But the bolt more Opera was a big deal looking back at IT. And that was for me, eighty, eighty three to to ninety.

wow.

yeah. And then try since for talk. Mom, there was a sunday and during the inter mission of something I think I was during this nyva longer, this giant vogue epic, torturous thing, and the the chorus didn't have to beat.

This is the one you saw on bug's bunny killed a web and killed a what is that? right? right? So there's an inter mission, and I am not needed on stage for like forty minutes after the intermission.

So I go across the street to the mount royal, taken a to drink a beer and watch the football game dresses, a biking which, which I recommend, by the way, would you all get a bar with the horns in this sphere? The bar tender knew me. Everybody laughed.

I, I SAT down. But the game wasn't on. The bar tender was watching a fat guy in a shinny suit selling pots and pans.

And IT was the early days of the qvc cable shopping channel. why? Why we watching this? And he said, because i'm auditioning for that guys job tomorrow morning. Q, bc was doing a national talent search.

Anyway, we had a conversation about the end of western civilization and what is meant for polite society to have a twenty four hour infomercial that just never went away, and whether or not, you know, there was any honor at all and auditioning for such a thing. And at that point I thought would be great to have some money. You know, I had had any before sitting their, taking this bear dressed as a viking, thinking, I I could probably do that job if I had to. So I went with him the next day and auditioned, and god hired.

Wow, was he mad?

The bar tender?

You get a gig. You know, you know .

about IT. Well, it's a good question. I don't know what became at him.

We had a good pens in IT.

We had a wager. I said, look, I don't know if i'll get the job, but I, but I Better get a call back like not going going to call back for the thing you we were just actors at the time, or like people pretending to be actors, trying to find later. You know, he was nice.

Nah, she's saying in the Opera with me too. Actually he also attended bar. He he just wasn't in that one. But yeah, IT was a very strange thing, man, to that that was my first job in TV like i've done some lighter local commercial stuff, but I talked about a pencil for eight minutes. That was the audition. IT was so strange in those days they didn't have a like there's no playbook to see who can sell stuff on TV.

You know, have a script that's about the pencil. No.

no, no. nothing. nothing. Here's what happens again. It's probably change today. I think you see the eight billion dollars last year back in one hundred and eighty nine and nine, ninety, ninety IT was nothing like that.

And if they hired a salesman, that didn't mean you had anybody who understood really had to behave on TV. And if you had a TV person that didn't really mean you cheese's, that's the cats sag right there. Do that's a sack for your cat.

What is that? And give you hear this a sack for your cat? What the fuck?

Just crazy. They just love IT. That's why this is a cat toy love.

So the cats play with IT.

They crawl inside IT and there .

is go nutty because IT makes .

a lot of noise. Twenty five.

That's why my books roll .

around and sort of wrest with the bag. And just really.

so this is like sort of just personality fucking around and with the toy in Selma, well.

that's what I did. I look.

remember that what you did was out novel that you .

were doing IT that way in relative terms like that was actually one of the great one of the true great life lessons. You know you don't have to be um outrages to stand out. You just have to be relatively outrageous.

So Q B C was a steady diet of of men and women doing the same exact thing all the time. And then IT been to three am, I showed up and put a cat bag go from my head. We're busted open a lava lamp.

So you're like a morning DJ kind of x.

right?

Because they, they're kind of fun. And that was different than the regular .

radio guy I would I meet for me. I thought of IT more like, like my favorite comedians. And by the way, I saw one last night.

Thank you. Ron White was over the mothership. He's at night too. I stopped by. You were around tonight. I got get back night night something about thanksgiving, but I watched to set last night. These are so he he was great and the .

never been funny. He's in top former now .

and he's gone. He's gone form assia. I mean, I didn't recognize he said hello and i'm like, hey, how are you? I mean, you're back. Jesus, good to see you. Um he was great and and as I watched him do his thing, um IT IT reminded me, like my favorite comedians, I never get the sense that they're trying to make me laugh. I get the sense that they're trying to amuse themselves.

right?

And I that's what makes IT comfortable for me to be in the audience to see somebody who hey, if I laughed, that's just a happy symptom of whatever IT is you're going to do anyway. IT makes me comfortable and that's why he's fun to watch. That's why this podcast is fun to listen to. The same reason I couldn't articulated that um thirty five years ago, sit there are still in a cat sac would .

you intuitive ly knew .

something I knew in the middle of like everything that I that I turned out that I needed to know about this crazy business. I learned in the metal of the night on the qvc cable shopping channel over a three year period trying to make ships. So three hours at a time, usually over the course of twenty four hours, so called.

would be on three hours at a time. yes. Would you come back again? Or would you only do three hours?

I do three hours and I go home. And I mean, have you done overnight.

night before now?

So I guarantee you there are a lot of people listening who have worked in overnight shift in their trade, in their vocation. IT IT changes you just as surely as doors. The cat lady's brain was scrambled by the gandhi eye and the taxi. something?

Dian rym, yeah.

it's not just that. IT is that. But it's it's something primal, even more primal, al, than that IT just messes with you and IT IT forces you. For me, I like changed colors IT IT changed taste IT changed. Yeah, because I i'd never I mean, I was upside down after I talked about a pencil for eight minutes.

I was on the air forty eight hours later at three in the morning, trying to make sense of the health team in fared pain reliever and the m cord negative eye on generator. Like, what the hell like? They give you a .

run down what these products were at all IT was up to .

you if you came in a couple hours early and you took the time to look through, like there was a table like this with all of the stuff on IT that you were gonna be selling and you could take the time to prepare.

But there no google. Just watch a youtube video that would explain what this thing did.

No, what you got was a blue card, usually from the manufacturer. That said a couple of sentences about what the thing was. You had an item number.

You had the Price, the retail Price, the qvc Price, then maybe some easy payment terms, all all the stuff, right? But who was just a blue card? And then you would kind go off and think about how you would make sense out of this skull, uh, and where IT came from and why it's interesting sting.

And it's feature benefits selling, you know. And if you understand that, you can talk about anything for as long as you need to. You know you never talk about a feature without talking about it's benefit.

And so that's kind of how the world worked. So you don't say it's a pencil for ninety nine cents. You say it's a it's a yellow number two pencil with any racer that is of the exact proportion necessary to last for the life of the pencil.

So when thing is down to a nub, you'll still have enough to race or left. It's really a monument to efficiency and ingenuity. And it's not just yellow.

It's yellow because you're a busy professional when you need a pencil job. When you open up your job, you don't have time to root around for some vegan beige colored writing implement. You want that canary yellow pop and you can pick IT up, right? And it's not it's a number two pencil. It's not three with that thin whisp line that you can't read or or that thick disappointing skid mark of a number one, right? So you just like train yourself to fill dead air with nonsense while you've .

fucking up your in hythloday .

ah while you're wondering like when your next meal is and you're onna have IT with and you wind up making friends and essentially hanging with with other people who live in that same weird like shadow land yeah shadow land.

That's a good way to put IT I have kind of an experience with overnight was not the same. I delivered newspapers. And so at least one day a week on sunday, I would basically show up saturday, three in the morning, right? Because you would I would deliver sunday papers and the sunday papers where .

IT was a huge under.

you flip the top, flip the top and then hit the button go um and so I was all fucked up from that. I would get up every day, five clock in the morning Normally to deliver the persons that of a large route. Yeah, he was my way to make money without having to do a job or had to listen anybody.

It's also a perfect example of a kind of job where you always know how you're doing while you're doing IT like lots and lots of little visual, undeniable cues, right? You got a your bags or your baskets is full of paper or your car, whatever you were doing, what you talked him about one at a time, you know you're making progress. You know the progress you're making as you make IT, right? You know let's .

you know you only have one and twenty houses to go.

that's right and then one hundred ten and then it's .

like people know let's go to donkey dont gaze of a nice donor in the coffee reward yourself days over yeah my day would be done working wise by mino. A M, nine. A M, on a sunday.

Nine, nine was rough. Yeah, occasionally they would make enormous sunday paper. So I have let him that to be a real problem, because you have to make multiple trips. And I bought a van, so I had a big cargo van, and I drove that around to deliver newspapers. So while I made IT a lot easier because I could stack three hundred and fifty sunday papers in the back of that van.

see, you remember, and you knew three hundred fifty. That's an interesting member.

I had bigger routes, but three fifty was manageable. How you I started when I was just driving, so I was in high school still. So I think I started delivering papers.

When was seventeen or eighteen? Whatever legal age they allow you to do IT. Ah so it's probably seventeen or eighteen.

I started driving and I drove till I was twenty two. I just started doing stand up comedy. I I drove all through out my competitive martial arts career. I drew in the morning.

IT was good because he gave me discipline because I had to do IT seven days a week through in a sixty five days year and you did not take any days off. He didn't matter if it's snow to rain or fucked and frozen rain on the streets. Black ice didn't matter.

You're got to deliver newspapers. And if IT, if they did delay IT, you would you would delay, you deliver the paper so you would have to call the depot you, hey, are we delivering yet because they didn't want to be responsible, was a blizzard for people dying and get lawsuits. So they they didn't make you deliver papers that was unbelievably bad out. But for the most part, you drove up everyday.

So you had a, you had a sense of consequence to this.

like you built in consequence, didn't deliver the papers, you didn't get paid, was very simple, was a very simple job you would show, I don't remember how they trained us. I think that might maybe the train just feel like one day you were taught how to fold the paper. One, two, stuffin the bag.

Yeah, plastic bags. You, great. Because you can truck out the window. And that never damage the paper, Robert bands, or real pain the ask, because you get hit a corner on the concrete, you would rip the corner paper than the customer would complain, is trying to read about what's going on in syria. And then this is a broken piece of paper.

I delivered the new york times only because IT was cool, like I deliver the boston globe that was the biggest distribution, like I get the biggest route. And then the boston herold, because I wanted more papers to deliver. So I do two papers.

And the near the times, the new ark times are paying me ask because it'll be like one every ten blocks. You've an enormous route. If you have one hundred and fifty times, that's an all day excursion.

Did you start to equate the type of home your delivering the type of .

paper to the new york times? People took themselves very seriously. They were very serious people.

They would ask me what i'm doing with my life. I learned this lady. I was A, I was taking courses at boston university. Just what people wouldn't think I was a loser.

There is literally the only reason I was going to college and you know she's asking me as what what what do you planning on doing to clear like, I have no idea. Like, SHE didn't like IT. SHE would like that.

I had no idea. yeah. Makes me he liked me.

but SHE didn't like that. I had no idea he was like, very motherly to me. I guess it's funny.

We had the the baltimore sun, which was the paper of record, and then we had the news american, which was sorted like the upstart. And I never thought too much about the difference between the two. Until summer time.

And crabs, like maryland, blue crabs are a big thing. They are big thing in my family, big thing where I grew up. And everybody who eats crabs in the summer eats them outside on a picnic table.

And you lay the newspaper out.

but which one, which one matters?

I don't .

know why IT does .

so is IT disrespectful to use the paper of note?

No, no, it's Better. No, no. I think it's a mark of respect. It's like, oh, we're having crabs. Get the news american.

Oh, that's silly.

Get the news american, because you it's all spread IT out in front of you and when you get the crab guts in the old bay and the j number two and the national bohemian and beer and maybe you can gLance down and get get informed.

Interesting that there are newspapers like that, right? Like there's a new york post. You want a fun headline.

You you want all the crazy sheet like what happened? Who got pregnant? You know what's going out with this? What's going with that? And then of the new york times where you support to put tam pons in the boys room. So, like, like, have you have what is happening?

Have you ever walk through the the offices of the post? Any chat? Do IT. Amazing, amazing. I had a old girlfriend whose sister worked there, worked for page six.

Oh boy. yeah. That's the fun one. Yeah so much fun. So that's like all the gossip and the craziness and right drunk driving.

right? It's like this place in the sense that there's so much on the walls, but it's all front pages and it's the .

best headlines. So the best one i've .

ever come up with the starting with the classic headless body found in top of bar, which is still tough to beat. That's great. But so many of them, i'd love the post.

I've always loved the post. I love the just the fun nature of the news that was like the working person's newspaper.

This is the point I was trying to make about the comedian who entertains himself first, and the smog on Q, V. C, who tries to keep himself awake before he sells the thing. That's how I felt reading the post.

IT was like these guys somehow i'm imagining a little they're laugh, they're cigars and they're all in on the joke, are like, yeah, we're going to report the news but you know, it's a lot of sharp belle bows out there in a very competitive world. So what can we do to maybe get the sick a little? You out of our s just a little bit.

Know, how can we be different? That's what fascinates me. yeah. Know how can whether you're publishing a paper or eating a blue crab, you or writing a book or a song, you know, how can you, how can you, in relative terms, distinguish yourself, not from these other worlds and other categories, but from from your friends from right? That's the, that's the trick, man.

Yeah, that is the trick. And then there's people that want to be that person that is taken seriously that's reading the new york times. You want to be that person when their legs crossed reading the new york times like very serious, very serious people, very smart people keep up today.

I said to ashes in your very excell driver who brought me here um I said, you know, it's been fun watching joe do this thing over the last five or six years and then I kind of stop myself in the middle. I said, actually know, I take you back. What's been fun is watching a watching the world catch up to IT like watching the headlines catch up to you or whoever you really haven't changed.

And man is so interesting to to watch people realize, oh, we're going to do IT this way now and we're gonna IT this way now. And that's been whether it's comedy or whether it's music, you know, it's when culture changes. IT feels like there is some instigator, some jagged little pill who's pushing IT forward. And I guess maybe that's that's true. But I also think there's this this larger hive mentality in the audience .

and they start to realize.

oh, there there's another way to deliver a paper, there's another way to do a thing. And IT feels new, but it's probably what you've been doing for the less twelve years.

Yeah, it's definitely the same way i've always done that. It's just having conversation to the people. I like talking to people.

It's fun.

Yeah, but you enjoy IT good a more curious person like talking to people but that's it's real simple.

Yeah but it's just because it's simple, right? You make IT sound like a parenthetical. It's just the conversation. Yes, that's only just the hardest thing there is to do.

but it's not really .

it's not why more people do .

IT because I enjoy IT. They don't enjoy IT like I enjoy IT like some people genuinely don't like talking to people. You know why? Because they're interested in themselves.

You have to be interested in the people. I think we're all connected. I really firmly believe this in a non happy way. I think it's like a scientific reality. I mean, if I think if we could figure out a way to study that, we would recognize that we were psychic, all connected in some strange way.

And I I am curious as to how someone from with A A different biology, uh, different life experiences, different geographic location in which they were raised, like, how are they navigating the world and why are they interested in Opera? why? What is IT? Why would got you to be a beekeeper? why? Why you so fascinated with painting? What what made you start writing music? like? I'm interested.

Yeah, I like talking to people. So for me, IT is easy. IT really is. It's just talking to people like I would talk to people like you. And I got the same exact conversation if we haven't dinner somewhere for sure same conversation .

yeah but again, IT makes perfect sense and it's not that it's difficult. It's just the very few people do IT. And if your explanation is because very few people genuinely enjoy IT, I can't disprove IT. You're probably right.

I think that's what IT is. You probably got lucky. I think I just got lucky. I found a job that I would have be doing anyway.

Well, here's what I don't understand, and maybe this is not even relevant. But we did three hundred fifty dirty jobs, probably sixty. Some of this thing called somebody y's gotto do IT I don't even know returning the favor. I think we did one hundred episodes at that.

I believe I couldn't tell how many things i've ve narrated hundreds if there's a will to beast trying to get across the vast reaches of the baron seon gei right like if I could remember every episode of how the universe works, ten years of this stuff if I could remember half of what I narrated um um that would be something um I can remember a chunk but my son is that I can't even remember the last twenty years I had on my podcast and in the reason isn't because i'm not curious and it's not because i'm not because I lack the requisite intelligence to remember for me it's just it's so much there's been no time to think about what i'm gonna do next, and even less time to think about what I just did, right? So you just talk to josh brolin and then you talk to the musician guy store, right? Scott, Scott orge.

And then before that, our friend evan was in, right? So like I have a Better it's easier for me to remember what you've done in the last two months and IT is for me and that freaks me out. And I wonder if if sometimes you get over your skies to the point where you've started to forget what you've done yourself.

oh yeah, there's no way to keep IT all um I have a bucket that's overflowing with information. It's overflowing. My my heart drive is not capable of retaining all of this is not possible. I retain a lot, though a lot more than I ever would know. I got an unexpected education doing the show for sure, like I never anticipated.

IT is a conscious like, can you choose to be interested in a thing enough to know that you're not gonna forget IT? Or does the interest just kind of a bubbled up and certain things stick to you?

The interest bubbles up and they stick? Yeah totally. You like my daughter asked me a question another day.

I don't remember what the question about, but it's a very technical thing and I said, no, that's exactly IT IT seems like that. But this is the really why and they figured this out because of this. And I started right and off and just like, how to fuck, you know, this? She's laughing.

And I was like, I don't know everything. I forget things. I forget my own birthday.

But I do remember things that are fascinating. I remember most things are fascinating to me. I have a unusual recall, but i've always had an unusual recall. So I I think it's a genetic .

yeah .

let me get really good at things too because I can remember like technical, really good for martial arts because I can remember technical details like really like like I don't forget things.

see you to me are the are the deeper end of the pool and more the the follow end not I don't mean for that is some comparative so much. But like with martial arts, i'm interested in martial arts. I'm interested in ultimate fighting.

I narrated the ultimate fighter, right? I did yeah but ten seasons of IT. But like that sort of the extent like I don't I don't go very deep. I've seen a couple but I but it's .

like but this is the big giant difference between um being uh a former competitor and and also like dedicated decades of my life. Marsh arts is not as simple as like I go and I do commentary like I started doing martial zones fifteen and I changed my life IT gave me discipline and a will to overcome uncomfortable discomfort and to push myself and to overcome fear, and to do something that's very scary to compete.

And that was like, IT formulated me as a teenager. So I started competing, competing vely like serious shit when I was, like, fifteen years old. And so what, we're traveling all over the country.

And so my social life from like fifteen and twenty one was completely retarded. IT was like not retarded as and slow down like the real term. And IT was mostly just training and competing.

That's all I did. And when the downtime, I was tired, so I just sleep a lot. I was like eating, sleeping, working and competing.

And then I started teaching. So then that I was making my living off of teaching, but not enough money, so was still delivering newspapers. I delivered newspapers in the morning. And then I teach, and was teaching at boston university as teaching at my own school by the time I was twenty.

Tech do. yeah. So this is my point. You take a deep dive when you get interested in a thing.

Yeah, you go into the thing. Comedy was in a hobby. IT became, I think, as what comes everything.

IT becomes everything.

Almost nothing I do becomes everything. Nothing, almost nothing.

But what are the things? What becomes everything?

I'm not sure yet.

Let me think about IT. Is there one thing that if you have like free time, you super look forward to doing? Like you have a hobby to played golf.

No, I don't have hobbies, and I don't, no, I don't collect all. I know, I know very little. I never have.

I wish I had one hundred lives to live simultaneously. I would have, I would do a hundred different things.

This is the difference. You're insatiable in that way you you get a thing and you're going to nail IT to the wall, man.

You're going to make great friend Anthony bordin. His headline is bio on twitter, IT said, enthusiast, I have really wish that i'd come up with that because that's what I am. I'm an enthusiast. I I wouldn't say IT now because i'd rip him off. And also now my bias has drag in believer because .

the congratulations on that, the lady of view.

they said to believe a drag. He traveled, checked, you traveled, checked, might got to be true. But i'm an enthusiast. That's what I am. I am a person who, uh, is very fortunate and that I have a love of a lot of things.

Well, you and tony were similar, obviously in that way. He took big bike, he took big swings.

He became good friends, and he really got in the judge to, yeah, because I kind of got him and do IT. And then his wife really got him to IT. But he started going to the ufa.

His wife was training and judges, and he got really, and do IT SHE was really love in IT. And then he was like, let's go to the Oscars. Es, like, this is fucked and great. And then, you know, he came to one of my comic shows. We became friends.

So go to dinner, by the way, with the entity burden to cool fucked to thing in the world because you go to dinner with them and all the shifts freak out ah and so they just want to feed you yeah they just want to like don't touch the menu. We got you and they come over bring food. And I wrote .

like ology for him that crashed my website.

Wow.

it's really funny. I only amount him twice and each time IT was fairly brief, but there was a time when he was doing no reservations. Dirty jobs was early on. A bit of fear factor was still in production.

And yeah, if fear factor, maybe IT is problem at the fair, had to stopped in two thousand and seven. And no reservations, I think, was around that time.

Yeah, he was on at six for sure. Dirty jobs went on three. yeah.

And then the CNN show, which was, I think, like CNN highlight of their time. And I think he really changed that network, because all the sudden that network was this fucking cool show, where this guy had this brilliant, narrow and he had this wonder lost. But but also also with this like real fascination with people, cultures, and just really loved IT.

He just loved going to vietnam. He loved going wherever he could go. He loved to eat their street food. He d love to talk to them. He really wanted to know what these .

people are all about. I ve never with the pot. This sound vain, glorious. I don't mean IT too. But with the possible exception of of me on discovery in two thousand and ten, narrow half their shows and hosting dirty jobs, which was a thing, you know, I felt really triangulated then. But then when I met tony and I had a show on CNN at the same time, actually, IT was a companion show. What was your show that was called somebody's gotto .

do IT so that .

IT followed dirty jobs. yeah. And jeff socker wanted something with tony. So you was like, wallets kind of do a version of this and I said, yeah, okay. But all the trouble in the world, man, every crisis, whether it's hate or whether it's a ride, the show got preempted constantly, didn't prompted tony, but they preempted a lot.

And I was commiserating with toning about this once and and that's when we had the conversation where I said, look, I just gotten, tell you, man, I have never in my life seen anybody doing the right show for them at the right time on the right network for them. Yeah, i've never seen that like that before and never mind the one I A IT was the p bodies that got me actually I know who cares about the emmy. They're easy. But jesus, the he is one p body award after the next yeah and IT wasn't a huge the audience wasn't as biggest people think, but they were engaged.

Well, that was important. I mean, the audience if they're really there for you rather than if they're just flip in channels because there's a lot of shows that just get people that a flip in channel 是 we used to。 When I was on news radio, everybody wanted the shot.

The spot after sign fell because there was sign. There was sign fell, and friends were on the same night. And I was just a murderous thursday night. IT was an unbelieved, the line up. And if you ve got lucky, you were sex in the city or a single guy.

And what paul seems, the producer of newsround o call a shit sandwich, because you had your brilliant show, and then a terrible show, and then another brilliant show and another terrible show. But if you got in those times spots, oh boy, you got a good, good box because people are going to just keep tune in and they didn't tune in for news radio. News radio wasn't really successful. After IT was off the air.

you were in the slip stream. Yes, you were in the works.

Well, we were owned by nbc. So IT was a different production company, was boring, grey. So they didn't have a vest interest in us being successful.

So the writers would show up. My friend lew would wear A T shirt, and he would write the number that we were when we do the table reads. And one day he was a, and I was like, for real, like, like, no.

with a bullet. We thought we are going .

to cancel literally every year, except the year we got cancelled, the year we got cancelled. That was shocked because that was like the year after phil died and then john lovett took his place for a season and then they cancel IT after that. And like in the perfect thing for our show, we never even hit the hundred episodes for syndication.

They had to sell that like ninety eight episodes that was like our show, like we were always like barely hanging in on. No, IT was just IT was a funny show, was a really good show to counted. I love the people I was super lucky to work on. And IT rule in me because I could never work on .

another show after that. What did you like? What was the big lesson from news radio if there was one for you?

Wow, IT was just fortune. The lesson is that you could just be fortunate, you know, because I was not a trained actor at all. I did A A set on mtv, half our common hour.

There is comedy show. I did a said, and then empty v offered me a development deal. And then my manager said, this is a terrible money.

They gonna lock you up for like three years, for like five hundred dollars. So I was going crazy, ridiculous, bad money. He said, i'm going to take your tape and tell all these other production companies that empt v wants to sign a deal with you. And IT started a bedding war, and he was brilliant, and he did IT.

And that's exactly what happened and the next thing you know, um I couldn't answer my phone because my phone was just call in agents and people just call me ah like some guy called me from universals like the focus this shady apartment on my way out the door to play pool and this guys telling me he wants me to get on a flight that night we have a flight at ten pm leaving on a liberia was what you talking about and so then I call my manager this kind just fucking call me for me he was I don't answer your phone so global pool get out here. I'll i'll take care of IT next you know, I was in hollywood. IT was like that quick and I was on a show called hard ball, went six episodes.

And the only reason why I stayed in california, I wanted to go back to new york. I hate IT IT. I hated actors.

I just couldn't deal with being around these weirdos. There were these weird, phony people. They would say, good to see you because they couldn't remember if they met you.

So that is saying, nice to meet you and fucking up. I'm sorry mayou, i'm sorry I fucked up. They didn't want to be real.

So everyone said, good to see everyone's good animal. Super on like this is so weird. Yeah, I was super uncomfortable experience.

And that was the worst experience on a shout, because the people that in the show, jeff Martin and Kevin current, super funny, talented guys who'd worked on married with children in the simpsons, brilliant. But the studio didn't think that they are good enough to run a show. So they brought in this hack.

And this guy comes in and just butchers all the the script IT was horrible. So that gets cancelled. The only reason I stays because I had a at least so I got a nice apartment and like the first apartment ever had is like I thought I was going to be on TV forever.

This was going to be easy and now fuck, I got to get out here as I wanted to go back to new york, I thought about break in my lease but then um nbc contacted me and they said we have the show, uh it's called news radio and we're recasting one of the one of the rules, do you want to come in? So I came in an addition for IT in the next thing you know, i'm working with film. Heart man, that was bizarre.

Yeah, no aspirations. What'll ever to be an actor? Never wanted to be on TV and then i'm working with andy dick and fill hartman and monitor ony and Candy Alexander, Vicky Lewis and dave fully like this is crazy from the city.

from second city yeah.

he was brilliant of dave. Followed, by the way, was the secret producer of news radio, because he, they would give him full autonomy. So he had completely rewrite scenes like on the spot, come up with punch lands for everybody.

And we all did that for everybody like we would all come up with. Maybe we should say this. Maybe should that was like super collaborate. So just fortunate, completely other good fortune, because I had friends that were on terrible sitcoms and they were lived in hell and and we d hang out of the comedy store, they were living in hell. And I was like, look, i'm anna show that nobody watches but it's fun, a shit and I can't believe in on TV.

This is not yeah on .

the joke yeah that was fun. IT was really fun. But I was just fortunate I could have easily never, never done any of those things. easily.

I thought for years that really a sitcom had to be the best gig in the world to have to do a, basically to do a play every week.

If it's a bad sitcom, it's hell. sure. Those guys do a lot of code, buy a nice cars, those are on, but they are on pad shows.

They just want to give themselves something to reward themselves. Ves with this sure fuck in slave not only side, I just they like you're a slave to money. It's not your you're compromising who you are for money. You don't really want to do that show, but you're on IT in its sucks and you have to repeat these terrible lines.

That's one getting at to see. It's the for me. I came down to that. I finally got a chance to do one. I played timon s Younger brother on last man standing for a turn.

I never saw that show. That was a weird on right because they get mad at him.

because he was right.

great.

Didn't they cancel one? So not they cancel .

them because they didn't. Like, is politics that mean .

that that basically happen the dirty jobs too, really? Oh yeah, yeah, it's is mine bigly. But but the point was I finally got a chance to I don't want .

to gloss over that. I want come back to that.

Oh yeah yeah. Now that's a great when you'll love this but but tim is great, by the way. And we became friends and and chemistry on camera. Everybody loved IT.

And when IT was over, I was like, well, you do an honest inventory, mike, like, what did you love? What what didn't love? And really the only thing I loved was was seeing people who loved each other and being welcomed .

into their little world.

that yeah everything like the idea that somebody else is writing lines for me. I know that sounds in ably arrogant, but I was so used to novi rights. For me, dirty jobs is truly unscripted and everything I ever did there were never any lines.

And that's an aliens experience for you.

Yeah, I mean, i'd done plenty of plays as a kid and stuff, but that's different you know that's that's different that once you in hollywood and once you're sort of in the machine, it's still lingers. I mean, the whole reason I crashed the audition for the Opera, I was just trying to find a set comm at some point somewhere.

And then when I when I finally got IT, you know, I realized just how lucky i've been prior to that, and how here you want this and and how crap, man, you know, what thing can live in your mind so much bigger than IT is in in reality? And so while I love doing IT, for that week, I said to my business partner, or over that this thing that I used to think of as the single most efficient way to make a living was so wildly inefficient you IT takes four days to rehearse for a half hour thing. You've got to be kidding me, could do five one hour shows in the same .

period of ah yes, completely different experience in that way. It's a collaborative fun time and you do become like a little bit of a strange family. We all hung out together and drunk together .

and that's important.

No, oh yeah yeah. IT is important. It's IT was like we you know, IT was a lot of fun, man, you know, in meeting people like Stephen root, who you know want want to do a million different things.

Brilliant, brilliant guy. You got to see people that are like really good at like he was a character. He was the only one of us that wasn't really himself like he was this one guy. He was like, a super sweet guy and you mean your life and then and he was Jimmy James.

my stabler.

yeah. The king becomes, did you see, was that one coon brothers had some netflix thing of wild west. Netflix thing he played on was fucked in ing.

wasn't he? And brother.

yeah, I think he's in my brother. He's been in everything. He's in a million different things. But just being with these people that, you know, like I said, I had no aspirations to act.

I just want to, I was just a comic, I just wanted make a living doing, and then somebody offered me more money than I made in a year for a week. And I like, this is crazy. And then all I want to show is like, just fortunate are are addition for two shows ever. And I got all of them, those the only two shows I ever .

addition .

for hard ball. The first one that I think that was terrible, yeah, that was the baseball show that got cancelled. And then in addition for these radio, so IT was nuts. IT was just, I was just step and shed. Every step of the way did make any sense.

So I never had an agent, except for a very brief period when I did. And IT was, you know, Shawn Perry, over IT endeavor, you guys ever cross pads? I know his former assistant turned out to be his wife later.

How's I work? The cotai lor. That's man. They're are live and great. They live up in the hills .

somewhere he think has a work reformer system work.

That's one of my business.

That's a dangerous undertaking.

SHE called me one day and I was in my, in my full on freeLance world. I hadn't had a since since Q, V, C. This is like nineteen ninety ninety.

SHE says, I just wanted, I just want to send out for for something, cause I know you're going to a book IT I said, actually, yeah, I could use a gig so SHE sends me out in the same week he says you should read for a craig n pygmy over at the pilgrim films. He's doing something called worst case scenario and he's looking for a host and so i'll dish for that. And then later that week he says this guy from nash fill, Michael orcan, was his name, who i'd worked with years earlier, not nature emphasis.

Uh, he was hosting that were the E. P. On that evening magazine thing that I mentioned.

And he's ready to hire you based off your blue per tape and never had a tape that I just my whole audition real in those days was a compilation of every moment that went off the rails at qvc, all the things that LED to my eventual firings as well as the cat sack and all the other crap that that was. I darrie to hire me. I got hired for both jobs that week, both jobs. And so suddenly i'm working for tbs hosting worst case scenario, which lived up to its name. And then i'm up in san Francesco hosting evening magazine .

and there was no conflict of venture like totally negotiated but to at the same time here wow.

that's cool. And then the close switch agencies and and and I never really had an agent you know prior to that was fortunate, super fortunate .

financially. It's great.

You know what's fortunate, man, remember OK. So my mother calls me, i'm at evening magazines sitting in my cubicle. My dad, my granddads ninety years old, remember this. I didn't I didn't close the loop on this, but that to answer your first question, what happened was my mom called me and said, your grandfather is going to be ninety tomorrow and before he dies, wouldn't be great if he could turn on the TV and see you doing something that look like work. Wow, yeah, my mother's savage cheese SHE just finished her fourth book.

by the way. Wow, yeah.

she's written three best sellers after eighty.

That's incredible.

She's out of control.

That's IT credible. So he was like, he wanted to do.

to do something impressive. My mother wrote every day for sixty years. Wow, no agent, no got published in like to news amErica and the bolden. More sun, you know, local stuff, some horse magazines.

We were horse people going to to grow up and and her her dream was to write SHE finally got a book deal when he was eighty, went to A A nuper four best seller. Wow, and everything she's written so far. So that's recently back in whatever was two thousand, one SHE was just a pain in my ass and he called me to say, no.

Would IT be great if you're granddad? This guy who shadow I grew up and you know could see you doing something because, like my puppets, he'd seen the Opera. He'd in qvc, he'd seen every god for second information, al, he'd seen I died, done a lot of things, probably two hundred jobs in the whole freeLance world.

And so I was forty two, and I took my camera man from evening magazine into the sore of sentence, cisco the next day to host the show from a sewer. And what happened in the sewer job was, I mean, to change its, I wrote a book about IT. IT changed my whole life, the roaches and the size of your thumbs.

There are millions of them when they crawl all over you. The shit comes at you in a chocolate tide of unending disappointment. And it's filled not just with all the stuff that comes out your body, it's filled with stuff that comes out to your in medicine cabinet, that plastic products and rubber private condoms stuck to your rubber suit you, it's believe bail, you can barely breathe.

And what happened to me down there is I, I completely failed to like, host the show. All the stand ups went wrong, laterals exploded, all hit my head with. So like a shooting gallery, there was a rat the size of a love of bread that crawled up my should.

I lost my footing, fell, and I, I was baptized. I was baptized in a river of crap at the end. My threw up, at one point, an enormous puke and i'm i'm squatting in the filth. You know, look at the camera trying to open the show. And when you see, when you see your camera math from IT float past you as you're trying to articulate thought.

Meanwhile, the guy who was like my minder was an actual sewer inspector, and he is in the background trying to do his job, which is to hammer out the old bricks that are rotting and replaced them with new. And now it's it's one hundred five degrees. It's the seventh level of hell.

H, it's clear I can't do my job. So I go over to this guys name is jee cruel. And I say, hey, what are you doing is like and bricks in as if you need a head. So I start mixing the murder and we start talking just like people you know not like a hostel thing, but you were saying, just what would happen if you had an honest conversation, totally unscripted, with a guy who didn't really know he was gonna on camera.

But what if you film IT and put in on TV anyway? What would happen? What would happened a week later when this thing finally air was I was fired because people sit down to hear their heart tugging story of the three lakes dog up and marine overcoming canine kidney failure its me a smart as forty two year old crown through a river of crap.

I mean, there I need their meat. Low IT IT was the wrong segment for that, for that show. But talk about fortunate. The male that came in as a result is some people said I was funding and they liked that. Some people were repulsed, but but the the letters that changed my life for the ones that said, you think that was dirty.

What do you .

see my brother does? What do you see my cousin does? My mom, my sister, my uncle, right? And i'm like, oh my god, there's I mean, if if the bay area is any kind of a microcosm m for the country and i'm not saying that is but from a TV standpoint, I was like, this is new.

No, i've never seen feedback like this. I've never seen curiosity among the viewership like this. Um and so that's that's where the idea came from just like what what if the viewer programs the show a and what if b the host of the show is the person that I meet who welcomes me into their shadow or wherever they were and what if what if i'm not a host?

After all, after twenty years of impersonating a host, what if a guest or an apprentice or a or an avatar or a cyber right what if I just think of myself differently than this guy who hits the mark and looks at the Cameron tell you the cats act is twenty nine. I mean, what if you just let all that go? And, you know, I don't know that I would have thought of IT like that at twenty, at twenty two, certainly not, not even at thirty two. But at forty two, I was entering a more introspective kind of phase. And so I was really just curious to see what would happen if I, if I thought of myself, is something different.

Well, we think about the history of just media is it's very recent, right? You have radio, which is like when when did people start listening to radio? Was the eighteen hundreds? okay? And then you have television that kicks on in the fifties, and everyone's a presenter, ladies and gentlemen, the beetles, right? Everyone's ed Sullivan, everyone's jack car, but jack par like there's this type of people that do this job.

It's like ever go to do a morning radio show? Sure, you have morning DJ voice. Hey, five o'clock on the hour, let's go with born jovi. There's a ice that they have a trip club. D, J, similar, this, a voice.

And yes, especially local .

news. They have a very specific thing that they're doing kidding yeah well, it's fake. It's not a person is no people act like that yet a guy like that over your house for dinner like what the book is wrong with bob box, a psycho that guys got people buried in this fuck in basement who talks like that, right?

And so I think the internet opened up a lot of room for unprofessional people to thrive. That's me. So I I can't .

do professional like .

I mean, in that regard like i'm not. So I wasn't trying to do something that authority existed. I was just doing like I was doing like a guest on open Anthony show that what I was like, like when you are guest on open an Anthony, that's how you talk.

Everybody was just hang out .

talk that opened my eyes up to podcasting. And then, you know Anthony kuma had his own show that he didn't is basement live at the compound where sing karaoke holding a machine that for convenient. And then um the other big one was doing a tom Green show because time Green had his own sort of internet talk so they did.

I remember yeah I was huge. So that also helped to and .

I actually was in negotiation with the people that we're doing in his show. And I was thinking about doing something. Member, I was like, I can work with anybody. I ve got to do this on .

my own quick side bar. I don't know if this is an interest and jme forgive me because I don't know. I'm supposed to ask you to do things, but I sold the first Carrier okey machine ever in this country on T.

V. C. Yeah, I will see that .

it's out there. It's i'm not proud of .

IT you be proud of that, but it's statistic .

IT was like twelve, fifteen in the morning, you know and they they sent me one of these things, my apartment. And is this is this even put like look there there everywhere.

Now obviously we've .

gone to crazy.

You like the godfather .

of cariole among too.

wow.

Ninety nine.

ninety five, six, yes.

Yeah, try to see. Is so blurry is IT interesting? Like how bad television looked back then? Comparison now, like just a resolution.

yeah. But you know what? There's something, there's something more trustworthy about rudie entree production value, right?

You can like, yeah, I was talking .

to guy Bruce about this earlier. He was saying how much he loves a like a antique road show and this old house no, I said, love this old house. I still, I was on the soul house.

Were you? Yeah and they invited me on they wanted to raise money um for the to reinvigorate to trade stayed very similar cause as as I do today and um and they've got all these advertisers lined up and then and then the guy in charge said, well, mikes doing the same basic thing let's call him and maybe we should just give him the money and let his foundation give IT away it'll be simpler than starting a new thing and they called and I said, yes. Do that sure but i'd like to be on your show now what would that be? great.

So they invited me on and IT was awesome. But my point is part of the charm of those shows is the almost remedial simplicity of the production. It's old, it's like there's an entrance, there's an exit, right? What's the last time we saw dissolve? Right, right.

Like all that stuff, and and I used to make fun of IT, I used to make fun of qvc. I still do. But but in reality, man, that there was something strAngely comforting about that kind of production value. And everything I learned that turned out to be useful. I learned in the middle night carrio .

machine about something that's overproduced that kind of dissolved some of its authenticity ity because there's too much thought put into each in at every shot. Everything about this, too much coordination IT sounds like you lose a comfort like I might be entertaining by IT I might be fascinating like like keeping up with the card actions you ever noticed like they change scenes every five seconds like keep you leg yeah and keep you in. There's something smart about that because IT does keep you engage but IT doesn't feel as authentic as IT was just like one person follow them around in real time with no edits at all.

just one camera.

Here's here's a thesis at least in the world of nonfiction this doesn't apply to scripted but production is by definition the enemy of authenticity, right? It's the enemy of the um you need IT in order to have a finish product, but when you get in your own way, then you get in the viewer's way, right? And one of the one of the things that kept their day jobs on the air for twenty years early on, I kind of realized that and and I wasn't sure what to do about IT, but I thought maybe, maybe we need to think of the show like a documentary.

So we got to behind the scenes, Cameron, they never stopped rolling. And so if my, if my my pack went out, or if a plain fleuve, or if somebody screwed something up, if we had to stop, for whatever reason, I always knew there was a truth camp. That's what I called.

And I could always look to IT. I could say, are what happened here 不对？ And so IT was those moments where I think the viewer realized, oh, oh, he's not he's not trying to tell me anything, at least not here.

He's letting to see the sausage. yeah. And that was new in in nonfiction. You know, that was a whole new way to think about authenticity.

The vae rama swami was the only, the only canada I invited on the my podcast because he I read somewhere that he said if he was nominated, he vow to never use a teleprompter to deliver a speed he get off, whether you can pull that off or not. I just thought that was so interesting and I and I wanted to talk him about that specifically. And then it's funny a year later.

No, I think I think the teleprompter is probably the best example of one forced error after the next. Like when you when you think about the anchor who just wants to be believed, the spokesman who just wants to be seen as credible politician who just wants to be just wants IT, just so it's like they want to be authentic. And yet they do the single most inauthentic thing you can possibly do, which is pretend to not read a thing that everyone can see you're reading right.

And so like the cognitive distances is rich, you know. And I just think we have entered into this world where like the the least persuasive thing you can do is say, trust me, or take IT from me. You know, people have just been burned so much, right? That they're gonna need.

We need a truth camp. We needed in the news room, not just in a sewer. I mean, did work there, but we need IT everywhere.

Fuck.

it'll do IT alive, blow riling of all people.

That's the real bill. Yeah.

that's the real bill.

That's yeah. That's what's interesting about social media. And social media, right, like this. There's a giant resistance right now to the idea that x is the new source of the world.

are the mainstream IT is there are the mainstreaming.

It's the new source of the world you and these people that want to claim to authority and say, no, you're not you're god dammit you're not fuck fucking you're not a journalist you know this you guys fucked us too many times yeah and we don't believe you anymore. And so the only way for us to find out what's real, what's not real, is someone posted online and then everybody looks out IT, and then you get the community notes.

And that's way Better than the new york times telling me that the fruit loops in canada exactly the same as the fruit loops in america, except for one shit that's banned. And that's the whole point of the whole fucking and thing. Let me while they're fact checking R, K, junior, so now I don't trust you anymore either.

You can.

So it's like that's what's going on.

You can't clause over the community notes. You can that's IT. It's IT.

That's the truth. Can it's a solution? Twitter gets a solution .

to this thing that we're trying to figure. How do we know what's true? What's not true? You get a consensus. There's enough people that actually can read scientific papers, is enough people that know the field that's being discussed or you're gonna you out of up hundreds of millions of people on x, you're gonna get an expert is going to say this is why this is incorrect and this is how you supposed to read IT and then everybody goes, oh, okay, this is wrong now, you know. And if you can just do little research and go through that paper or good, go through that thread, you if you're an objective person, you probably get a good sense of whose right is wrong.

It's a weird economy though, right? Like skepticism, like we have to be skeptical, yes. But part of the reason we have to be as skeptical as we are is because so much of the media has abdicated on skepticism and they've become something else, you know, something else. And so, you know, you can't you can't really blame people for, you know, considering what we used to dismiss as a conspiracy theory, when the theory start to get born out and when there is such a level of eroded trust in in once incredible institutions like well.

that's also the whole reason for the disdain for conspiracy theory in the first places that no, you're not an expert. I'm the expert and you're wrong but then when they're wrong, there's no repercussions. They never want to say, you know, we were wrong about all this.

Yeah, we are sorry. We were wrong about masking. We were .

wrong about social distance.

wrong about you no, because because are not humans. And that's why you don't believe them because, you know, there are just people reading of bullshit of a teleprompter that is a, and nobody wants that anymore. You don't have to have them anymore.

And that's why x is emerged in sub stack and all these different things as like the place where people go to get actual information. And that's why they are like podcast because it's just the three of us in this room that's IT the whoever the numbers of people in coral corals are called now. But the numbers of people that are listening is like crazy number that are all just listening.

Three people. So there's no producer. There's no all that shit that gets in the way of things has been removed.

It's actually four people. When you think about IT that way, like if the audience becomes its own amalgam, I think of IT like that. I think the audience gets short shifted a lot.

I thought of that last night in your club. It's like the audience is, I mean, without the audience, what are you doing? You know.

build a club at a club is everything.

It's everything. But but why is IT different?

Well, because you can't think about that way. Because the best way to do IT, in my opinion, the best for me, the best way i've found to do IT, is to never think about the audience. I all, i'm interested, and I think about IT in terms of if i'm bored, they must be bored.

Like, let me pick this up a little bit, move this around a little bit. Let me figure out a, you ve got to move a conversation. Like, sometimes i've talked to like, very old scholars. Like, very old and its time sometimes, like, okay, got to cus here.

Really get back a little bit.

In the beginning, when he was just to the bedroom, I was, the bed was, he was, a long man was, I was like, okay, we got to figure out a way, what's IT like to be the fuck and president, what does that feeling like? How crazy is that on the first day? That's what I really wanted to know. So it's like you gotten kind of move people around. But that is for me, like as an audience member, i'm not thinking about the audience because I feel like the best way to do IT is for me that actually one hundred percent be engaged in interest did and what this person's talking about.

But don't you think that that you you are the proxy for the audience when you're at your best even sure in my view. Yes, when i'm listening to you, when I like high five, you virtual y, it's when you asked the question, I was thinking, and I I really tried to do that in the sour. I really tried to do that on dirty jobs. I really try.

I think you did. I think that's why I resonate so much of people.

Well, I hope so well for sure.

because you didn't ever seem like a fake guy doing a thing. You seem like fun guy or a regular guy who's doing this thing where your interact is feel like what? How do you do this?

Like what is this? So, yes, thanks. But then all of a sudden I look up and downe trumps in the solar with me, oh, shit.

And there is an election in a week. Oh, the stakes are around me, right? Yeah, all of a sudden have changed. So it's so interesting that he was sitting right when I am sitting and you feel the need to kind of put some sides on this thing because you understand first and foremost that as an audience member, right, as somebody who's just listening to this has a .

fly on the wall, i'm getting a little lost. Yeah, i'm going to board.

Let's move IT alone. So I mean, you can say that, hey, that joe be in a good host, or that joe being super honest in a conversation where starting to drift a little am most .

certainly where that people are going to listen to a dung me wrong. But I don't think like in the questions, like maybe the audience would want to know this. I do do this one thing, even if I know that some, I know how this a thing works.

I will ask a person how thing works so that the audience can hear IT from them rather than from me. I don't want be mr. smart.

I pancre. I don't have to be. But that one thing that I do where I am aware that people probably don't know what we're talking about. So what could you explain, where this came from or why?

Because sometimes people, especially if they have an area of expertise, they just assume that people know what they're talking about, what they are talking about, specific techniques or ways they do things. So in that way, I do think about the audience, but most of the that's just like i'm just doing my job. But mostly all i'm trying to do is be one hundred percent locked in yeah just locked. And I feel like if i'm locked in and i'm just real honest and just try to like be really curious and really just try to get the most out of this person, that's going to be good for the audience.

What was more consequential? Him coming on or her not coming on?

Him coming on. Why do you say that? Well, because realistically, like, okay, my thought about her coming on was I was just, I was gonna very nice.

I was wants to have fun with her. I wanted to just be able to talk to and ask her what I would want to get a sense of her as a human being. And if it's policy talk that bothered them, like there was a few things, they didn't want to talk marijuana legalization.

They initially didn't want to talk about internet censorship and then they change their tune and then they wanted to talk about internet ship was great. Internet censorship is important. What's talk about IT? But whatever he wanted to talk about, fuck and riding bikes, I don't give a shit.

I don't give a fuck what you wanted talk about to talk cooking, rock climbing. I just want to just get a sense of her as a human being. That's just as a human being. What is IT like like, does IT freak you around? People get mad at you.

Does IT freak you out when you fuck up A A sentence and you ramble and you know, I know what what it's like when you don't, you know, the people are listening and like, I got a fuck and bring this home and I don't know how to. And just sort of repeat these key lines. Are this maybe just some new words you become a named oud with? You realize you realized .

you're in the midst of a sentence with no obvious ending. Yes, that's that's qvc c in A A OK. That's what IT is, right? And when the teleprompter break, yeah that's when you get to know the person, right? And so that's why i'm asking I I don't I wonder, you know, I mean, I listen to the interview and and and I asked myself, well, is anybody gonna vote differently as a result? I don't think so.

Are some people going to vote who otherwise might not have voted? maybe. But for me, when you started to talk very casually ly about the fact that that her campaign had stipulations they had.

I think there is a lot of people that were he had made some a bunch of blenders, and there is a lot of concern that he was to make blenders here. This world is going to get to SHE might have you might have been a mess. Yeah, I might have asked her about immigration.

We might have about a conversation about, like what is the goal? Like why hasn't this been? This doesn't if we can, you launch rockets and land at the same time as we can control border.

That seems not real. That doesn't seem real. One seems way harder.

That's happening. He's fucking catching rockets with robot arms. Yeah OK. That's how come this can be fixed because this didn't use to be like this.

So why is like this now? Why does the red cross of the station set up where they are giving people maps and instructions? Why does china have these places in mexico where they only have chinese menus, chinese writing, chinese everything? And these people are coming from china specifically to the spot and making across the country.

What's the purpose of this? Is anybody ever examined what these people are up to, why they're doing this? How is this so organized? Like what is that about? Maybe that would have been a disaster because that that's something that I felt like if if SHE didn't want to talk about the marijuana and they want to talk about internet censorship, immigration are a an interesting one, right? Yeah, it's very interesting because, like first of all, I am pro immigration.

I am the grants on of immigrants. My grandparents came over here during the depression. If they didn't do IT, I wouldn't be here.

The entire country, other than the native americans are immigrants. That's all of us. Every is we are a country of immigrants.

So we should have some stipulations, though, about who gets in and how you get in and where you coming from and what what is your past like? Are you a? Are you a ganging banner? Have you've been selling fanno for the last twenty years? Like what do you do in with your life?

Bob iring minds went to know.

we want to know. And I think that's reasonable.

Do you see a difference between an immigrant and a settler? Well, IT also .

the timeline, right? Yeah, is the timeline thing. And you not only that, you're an invader.

Like if you're one of those people that comes over in eighteen twenty and you're making your way across the planes and you encounter the commander, you're the piece of shit. You're not supposed to be there. That's where they live here.

You're in their yard. You're some fuck and weird scruff y american look at for gold, you know. What do you do in here though? You're the problem, you know and now all the, that's texas.

That's what we are. We live here. now. This is my land bit where I live up. I got this now. Well, all invade or in one at one point in time, every human being, that's a Normative person that made their way across the country. You've probably entered a place where people were .

before and every freedom .

fighters at terrorist. Yes, right?

IT depends on who wins history to decide all that.

sure. If we didn't, actually, the founding fathers didn't pull this off, you know, we would be these wild reneging english people that decided to come over here and just fucked and create havoc.

So yeah, there are a lot of ways to go with all this. But I i'll just come back to the teleprompter and say if that's an essential part of how you communicate and if that's an extent, if that part of your image right, you know, then you you can't be on the show.

right? right?

You can't you can't join me in the solar. And there there's no room for the contrivance. There's just no room.

There's just no time. I just wonder if that's what they make them do.

Like if you make me do that, i'll sock to, you know, I can't read of a teleprompter but not interested in doing that, it's not my thing but if you make a person do that, like if if you're going to be a politician, right? Okay, and you are a senator in which is, you know you don't get that that kind of exposure that you get if you are a vice president or you're running for president initially, right? Like that's a totally different scene and there's probably a bunch of people that coach you how to do IT, right? And you don't know what the fuck you're doing and if you're not a powerful person like A A big personality, lc, Donald trump, who could just do IT, but also coming from the world of entertainment for most of his life. He's been in the public guy in hosting the apprentice for fourteen years like he's he's used to being in front of the camera is a Normal experience for him. He has a massive advantage.

That's what I meant by production. Becomes the enemy of authenticity yeah when you rely upon IT to the point where you can't function in the midst, we're in the wake of a clip. Well, in a world of glitches, you're in trouble, great, you know. And I and I think the audience, not just yours, but the country. I just think they're just exhausted by by people who have been managed and focus grouped and weighed and measured and tested and then put out there.

I think it's also the evolution of culture in general because if you just go back to we're talking about media, go back and watch a film from one thousand nine and fifty versus a film from twenty twenty four, the way people communicate now is much more realistic. There was a way of talking like, hanna, what did you do you? There was a weird performance of aspect because he didn't .

know how to do IT, right? And that comes to in everything.

father, in all, all that stuff. And then as time moved on, IT changed, like all in the family was all the sudden disregard tic portrayal of an of, we have got a racist dad, and the son is, you know, the meat had the son in law and the daughters are happy and mom, just for what? fuck? Amazing show.

IT was an amazing show. N for sign is another one that was a comedy. But people talk like people would talk in real life. And then as culture moves on, songs change, books change, everything sort of like moves into the there's a much greater understanding if you had a show and you try to do for them was best today, IT would almost be like you were putting on like a parity would be weird.

You would be would be like a weird tim eric type thing, like you're doing something weird on purpose, right? And that's not acceptable anymore. So the cultures .

moved on, so for sure. But IT moves on .

in fits and starts and it's no cate.

right, right? So like the even that look, the changes. Podcasting, like it's happening right now right in front of us.

You can see so many different types of podcasts. Yeah, see so many different kinds of a scripted dramas. I mean, oh my god, look, can you imagine breaking bad thirty years ago? It's impossible, right, right? A whole lot of things had to happen in front of that for that thing to .

the bronze had to happen. That's right.

And something I D had before that yeah well, in my world and in the world you're describing that was the age of authority. That's when eric severi could talk to you like this. That's when, yeah like like discovery is is a good example.

You asked about IT and i'll tell you, first of all, john hendry ics a friend of mine who created that channel you would love. He did this in his garage, basically. I know the stories is incredible, how he talked malone into getting some transponder space, or maybe as westing house and let mortgage house to buy some documentaries from australia started beaming all that stuff down.

I asked him years ago, i'm like, what was the like? What was the guiding principal behind this, this business model? And of course, you know, discovery is since purchase, Warner brothers know there's the biggest entertained company in the world today.

And I started with john hendricks saying one goal to satisfy curiosity that's IT everything. Everything I do must line up with the traditional definition of what a discovery is, the satisfying of curiosity. yeah.

And so when I pitched dirty jobs, I was coming in on the heels of what you're talking about. There was still in non fiction. IT was Richard at and burgh.

IT was ju stu IT was jane good. All IT was, you know, the discovery brand was very much a reflection of some of the the greatest naturalist and historians and you know astro physicists in the world. They they differ red, two experts. And then they hired guys like me to narrow shows and we can sound even more official and so you had this dance, this production dance, where you had a credible sounding voice um and an expert at the center of the thing.

Dirty jobs was not that dirty jobs was what if the expert is the septic tank technician or a wilder? What if the expert is a skull cleaner or a golf ball retriever st it's a job or a sheep castrate or an oral sheep castrati which we can get into if you want. Um like what if they become your source of credible information and what if the host somehow morphs from this authoritarian expert into a guest with a bunch of questions? So this conversation happened between me and some of the guys over there in in two thousand and three and they bought IT.

They didn't buy. They didn't like dirty jobs. They took IT really to shut me up. They wanted three episodes.

And the deal I made with these guys was rooted in the paradise of me, saying, send me out into the world to go on adventures and and don't ask me to know more than I know. But just let me look under the rock and lets learn together. And so they're okay.

We're going to, you know, you'll go to the titanic with James Cameron, your climb killer. Jo, very nearly IT was canceled the month before because dirty jobs finally hit. But prior to that, I went to egypt.

I was expLoring tomes with sai hua. I was at the pyramids. I was in the some of the greatest, the largest undiscovered graveyard in bai, the sands of the dead, where they found the mommies with the golden mask.

And nobody knew who to how they were, because IT wasn't attached to any dynasty. And who are all these people with golden masks on their faces? And so discovery would send me to do these, these shows, and they were great. Meanwhile, this, this hot mess that looked like a german porno called dirty jobs winds up on the air and IT rates, like through the roof.

But the problem in two thousand four was that, and this is a kind of cognitive tive distant that always is super interesting, right? When a big company, or a brand, or a political party, or really anybody realizes that the thing their audience wants is not the thing they want them to want, that's amazing. And that happens all the time.

sure. And most of the time when that happens, you know the the you just walk behind the barden shoot IT and and you never hear about IT, but dirty jobs actually got on the air before. I was shelved for a year, and I was during that year that I went on a series of adventures for the network doing this.

Other one is out. IT was shelved because I was deemed off brand. IT was shelved because I was biting the testicles off of lambs with ranchers.

That's how they castrate their lambs. And I have one hundred two years. That was not that specific episode that got me in trouble later.

But IT was shelved because IT was an unscripted, random rob. We never get a second take on the show. IT didn't look like everything .

else in newark.

IT didn't look like anything else on the network, was just a jack, a little pill. But they liked me. And and and they like this idea of of a more unscripted look at the world.

And so we reach this kind of, don and I started in narrating all their tent poll shows, and then I went to alaska to host deadliest catch, which is a whole other story, that crab fishing show. Yeah, that's twenty one years now, right? And up there people died, you know, crazy b people died.

And I I went to six funerals in six weeks. And when they when we looked at the footage of that and somebody up the food chain eventually decided, okay, this is a world we have to get into. But mike, you're you're not hosting two shows at the same time, so pick one. So dirty jobs came back, went in a full production late in two thousand four and deadliest catch when a full production about the same time. But I just narrative moral. The story is everything that happened after that and around that i'm not saying because of IT but but right around the same time I think the media world in nonfiction anyhow began this migration from the age of authority into the age of authenticity and ever since um non fiction has has been grappling with that just as surely as every other vertical because people want to see something that feels like the truth and that's that's .

a sliding scale yeah that's interesting. That is what people are gravitating towards more today. And it's that I mean, I think that's the whole thing we've talking about why like mainstream news is fAiling.

But you know, you see, yeah, you know.

when you see IT, yeah, did you tell the difference? Oh.

bording, yeah. okay. I think for me, the moment that Crystalized all of this and he and I were on parallel pads, I think he was dealing with his network, the travel channel at the time, the same way I was dealing with discovery.

We were constantly at each other throats trying to navigate this, this weird line of reality in authenticity. And there's there's a scene in parts unknown. I think he's in, might be ardini. He's diving. Oh yeah.

They thrown on the fake octopuses in one of the single .

greatest moments in the history of its amazing on fiction.

He shows exactly how the sausage is being made. But it's also like, now you can trust him because, you know, he's kind of sabotaging the narrative that theyve creative for his own show. I was authenticity.

I would do that for scene, maybe even for an act, maybe even for a whole segment. Maybe if I got like a, like a be in my bones and I really just couldn't, you know, I got angry every now and that and but tony, though he went out, got drunk, I mean, drunk, drunk and shot.

The whole show smashed and he made them cut IT in and you can see him, he he's so disgusted, just so you're just so the audience understands they are supposed to be spearfishing for octopi. And the local handler wasn't sure that they were gonna find any. So we bought some at the market, but they were frozen and dead.

And so tony, down there with this spear gun, with some other diver and these these frozen squid, right, to start to come by in and in narrow, this is where he really owned because he he owned that show, like he could. yeah. Now he's going to tell me what to say.

So his real rant happens months later in the vio bath when he's just describing the heartbreaking insincerity, I don't they know why I am? What did they think I was going to do? So like he says something like that.

In the face of this kind of wanton deception, a reasonable man can turn to nothing but the elector of the steel alcohol, and he just drinks for the rest of the show and the air. Yeah, in airs on CNN. Yeah and I think I want A P body. Was that .

the CNN one or .

was that no reservation?

Was yeah IT was .

parts unknown. Look, i'm pretty sure I was parts alone. Pretty sure I could be wrong.

but I think you might be right.

Yeah and god, I just I mean, that's what I that's what I wrote about when he died. IT was part one yeah because i've then i've been sitting on a diag. I've done that. I've been in this in this world where you're nervous, you've got a lot of stuff to worry about, and then somebody just comes along and tries to produce a moment. Yeah, you try to produce a moment.

Also, these guys provided no tying guys like this fucking guys. We're gona find the activists we've killed. Wall.

be right. But I got to think there's somebody, there is crew, somebody over from zero point zero. The production company is somebody must have, you know, who knows? Who knows? Man, who knows? Look, the fact that that happened is is wonderful. The fact that he was able to insist that at air, that was important.

yeah, that was important.

yeah.

While certainly important for how you trust him, you had to trust him. I mean, that was his whole thing. You know, you come on with me. This is actually me.

Here we go to fly on the wall.

Yeah, yeah. That was a very unique show, too, because he taught me that food is are. I really learned that for no reservations, but IT fallowed over three parts unknown.

A food is art. I, I didn't think of IT is art until I saw his show. Then I was like, oh, okay, that's right. Because I just thought of art as being like a thing that people make that you look out of touch.

I never thought I would be a thing you make that or you hear, right? I never thought that would be a thing you make where you eat. And then I saw my all these are artists, these are artists. All these people discovered these different ways to make things delicious. And okay.

the medium different .

ah different it's a different, but. Then hang ging out with them. So like here, they are all artists.

They hang, they talk like artists they are, they cover in tattoos. They are fucked. And weirdos like to do drugs. There are all listening to crazy music.

you know. But they're also craft man like, I mean to me, yeah, food is art. IT sure can be and I can also be fuel. Yeah.

you know, it's .

actually both. It's kind of perfect.

Yeah, you can have both. IT could be art and fuel. Just get a pic with .

IT is hunting art?

It's a discipline. It's a primal discipline, is a discipline that connects you with life and death in a very unique way that I don't think anything else does where you it's if you do IT correctly, right? I'm talking about like mountain hunting, like mountain aircon ning in particular, which is my favorite.

It's very hard to do. I trained for IT because I have to get a really good shape. I practice so I practice so much.

I fuck my back up because I was get developing like ten and I S and my lower back and I just ignore red IT yeah shut up yeah I got we have work to do and so it's a discipline more than is anything. But it's like, anna is some people called a sport. I find that wrong.

It's not the right IT does take like physical and you have to be in shape to do IT. You have to be in great fitness, both on sport. It's it's it's a discipline.

It's a discipline that very, very, very primal IT taps into something you didn't even know. Is there IT is like the people who've ever gone fishing. There's a thing that happens when you catch a fish.

There's an excitement that you're not prepared for. It's a weird excitement. That excitement is you're gona feed your family, stay alive. That's what that excitement is because that excitement is like hardwired in your human reward systems and you don't know it's there until you go fishing. And then you all, we got him yeah .

and uh.

hunting is that times a hundred hunt ting is that is hunting is way because you you're defying their elective senses. You have to make sure the wind is going in the right direction. You've to go all the way around. If it's not, you got to figure out a way, move through the trees. You got to move very slowly, only move on their heads down.

I think that's art.

No, no, man, I mean, it's a shot is art. I'll tell you that arteries are good. Artery shot on an animal. I watched a look at art because it's hard to do. It's very hard to do when I see someone just had a perfect fifty art shot, the vitals and that brought had since I know that animals going to die very quickly, it's a quick, humane death. And that's what you practice for you.

Josh Smith over montana knife may very well. He sent me a video the other day. He went on a big hunt with this boy.

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

His boy got wanted about that a few hundred yards.

fucked in use for the first boost. That's so crazy I can hit the jackpot.

But the excitement on the video, oh yeah, me. And bow hunting is even more primal than that.

Bow hunting is that times one hundred. So it's regular hunting is fishing times one hundred than both hunting is regular hunting times one hundred.

I just think you know if you're whatever canvas you're in front of, whether you're painting or whether you're cooking or whether you're stalking like you can the muse like that, does the use come to you when you're stalking does IT come to you? You know, I don't have an answer for IT, but I but but I know that people talk about IT like some people say what you're in the zone. You know sometimes when I write, i'm surprised, like just the other day I started, I started writing something on the tarmac of sfo and when I looked up, I was at jfk, was like that, yeah.

you got into IT. Yeah, airplanes are great for that are the .

best they .

forced into that sea can't get up because there's a going next to you. You get that laptop open. And I just comes out here.

and I like a couple advise. Look, I go. I wrote a book on a plane. I believe I really did. And I did IT mostly in moments that I don't really remember when when time gets compressed.

And and I think .

that that can happen when you're fabricating something, when you're hunting something, when you're painting something, maybe in middle of set, maybe the middle fight yeah you know, I talk to boxers who say it's so odd the way things will sometimes almost feel like they're in slow motion even though they're happening so fast.

Some fighters is are what I think martial arts are are for people that understand IT. If you watch IT is beautiful, but there's some fighters that are just so artist, you you know how a manual justice yeah OK, that guy is an artist.

That guy is an artist would make .

him an artist because he's first of all, completely unique. Okay, doing a thing in this beautiful, deceptive way, he's dancing. But he's also, he has an understanding of distance that's fantastic. So he's really good at avoiding punches. His his head movement, even with this unorthodox cy style, is fantastic.

He's stalking.

He's doing something like, here's here's a manual look. I mean, imagine you're fighting a guy who is moving like this is so crazy he was so hard. Ford may, he said he was the most legal, just punch with two hands at the same time.

Ford may wether said he was the most skilled opponent ever fought. wow. He in his record didn't indicate his actual physical ability. Disabilities were incredible, but it's just like IT was such a wild style, so unusual.

Like boxing a bobble head.

right? Like prince, not seem. Hamed had a kind of a similar thing going on when he was in his prime.

No, sim hamdan was very, very unorthodox. here. Here's fighting ed floyd. He gave floyd a hard fucked in time because he's so difficult to fight. Like how do you deal with that? And when your guy like floyd and you get in clown he is, he's fighting micky ward. When your guy like floyd and you you know the cream of the crop olympian, I mean, fucking phenomenon boxer, just a fantastic boxer, and then you're fighting this guy who's dancing from you, like you would have fuck, but also really good IT wasn't just that like you rarely get a guy who's clowning like that, but also like those that kind of head movement skill, phenomenal movement, but also can dance in front of you and land shit that you don't see common because it's common at those weird angles.

Who is this trainer?

Oh, man, I don't think anybody trains you to do that.

I don't either. No, he, you know, he is. But maybe maybe if the guys started winning like that.

he would change his tune. So may be people change their tune when .

they .

something extraordinary and they see something weird, you know, they change their tune. Well, maybe fuck, I don't know, because you don't know. Sometimes you don't. There's guys that come along in fighting, in particular, that have styles that are so weird, so unique.

You go, you mean, how can nobody else to do IT like this is going to work like, you know, strann strictly, usc middle champion, stand straight up, puts his hand like one hand, like this one hand down here and beats a fuck out of everybody stands straight up. Everybody else is down. Everybody else is move in on shot, straight up, moving towards you. Phenomenal head movement, awesome timing and walked people down in a weird style. There's a bunch of guys that fight weird, but they're really good at IT.

Well, think baseball too. I think it's everything. Louie, remember the picture.

I don't really fall baseball.

You'll love this, Jerry.

I know almost nothing about sports.

believe IT or not. You know. I mean, you will one day you're going to look at a baseball game ago, hey, you know, I need to do, I did to play professional baseball. And then five years later, we're going to be reading about IT because you going to go crazy with that.

The same we deliver for that. But, but this, li tian, what did you do differently?

Lute, I was a picture, and his wind up was such that IT looks sort of traditional, but then he turned his back to the batter without leaving the rubber, right? So this guy would spin all the way around before he throw, and he go further than that sometimes.

Is that really unusual?

Yeah, yeah, it's unusual. That's unusual.

Oh, so freak people out a little bit.

Yeah yeah. Because he just breaks. He stops looking at you. Look at his back.

Look at his uncle. Yeah, craze.

That's exactly IT. So it's like, you know, if you are Better, you're like, are there a lot of different pictures? And I get used to and I get used to guy s .

that to have flexible knees .

flexed everything .

because lego that the angle his knee is in before he turns that crazy.

Yeah, yeah. You would actually, i'm surprised you not in the baseball because .

I love any room.

I know the .

book one hundred percent is you. I watch football now, my wife in the football. But I I can, I can only pay attention so much. My head is filled with combat spotts. There's, I have to follow judge to moitie M M A in the U F C, M M A in the P F L ballet tor one fc.

There's, I have to keep track of a thousand fighters, like literally a thousand fighters, maybe casually, some of them like some of the glory kick boxes casually, and watching, you know, oh, bottle Harris fighting, oh, you know, this guy is fighting. That guys fighting. I know who these people are.

I watch and fight, watching fights just hours and hours in a day. I might watch. I, my wife fights two hours every day.

Is IT worker fun is fun. Yeah, it's only fun. But I do feel obligated to pay attention. Like a there's guys that coming up in other organizations, I see guys have like a specific skills set its unique like I contact a conomo a grand like two thousand and thirteen.

He was fighting in cage warriors, and I reached out as I do, you're fuck and super talented. I hope I get to see in the usc some day. And there is like, you know, kick boxers like alex per era.

I follow him in glory. And then finally he comes over. The U. S. Was like, you gotta see, see this. This guy is fucking insane, is like you have to have some sort of an understanding what what's coming, you know? And also you have to kind of be tuned into the state of the art, because the state of the art is very different in twenty twenty four that IT was in ninety seven.

And when I first started working for the uc, the state of the artist, Ellie, now you're getting these eighteen year old kids that can do everything at like a super high level and they're like these phenomenal athletes that instead of going into baseball or and instead of going into football, now they're just they're only focused on becoming A U fc. Champion and this is their goal in life. And they're eighteen and you get to see them in amateur organza, you get to see them in foreign organizations, you get to see him travel overseas competing japan, you know. So to me, it's like I don't have any room. I don't a room for baseball.

It's interesting, man, you've had a front row seat to. To watching that sport become as dominant as IT is at the same time we are watching the podcast world blow up. Well, the ubar first.

So I was a fan of the u fc in the very, very beginning, and IT got me into judge to. So in ninety six I started taking to, just through ninety four, I found out about the ufa know, kept IT in my head for a little bit. I was still kick boxing at the time, just not fighting anymore, but just training.

I was training a bunch of different places in north olly's ood, this place called the center, and van eyes before that went under. So I was as interested in marsh arts always. And then the u.

fc. Came along, and I was super interested in IT. But I didn't really have an a lot of that was on news radio.

The time was very difficult to have the time to start trading and ninety six to start training. And so I started work for the u fc and ninety seven and that was when I was banned from cable. You could only get IT on direct TV and, uh, we had to do these shows. And like doth in alabama where you took a propeller plane, IT was fuck and .

hell IT was no money ninety seven and is da bernac.

Da was not involved here.

When did get involved? Two thousand one.

So, uh, i'm on fear factor at the time. And uh one of things to me and my friend edy bravo, who's also big fan from back in the day and he taught me judge when we were um first really into IT when we would go to like louie and there the only places that were sanctions these fights there were bear knock all people wore shoes you could grab their shorts IT was like crazy rules yes and um we said, you know IT would take these billion aires who love the sport and dump A P tuna money into IT that's what we take. Someone have to dump a tony money and then along time Laurent zo and Frankly fertile in two thousand and one these billionaires that happened to get in love with the sport and so they buy the u fc and then um they started putting these shows together and then I made dinner and then I start asking dana, like, if you ve heard about this guy to you see see this guy fight in japan never heard this this russian dude and I started asking about fighters like you should try to get these guys and is like, I do want to do commentary and then next, you know, i'm a commentator for .

the is okay, this is this a very weird regulating? But they even have any money .

at the time because they were hamer's ing money. So I did the first thirteen shows for free.

And back to the art thing, you must be willing to give IT away whatever IT is you love. You must be willing to give IT away for a time at least.

Well, for me, money has always been fun coupons. And so I was on fear factor. I had plenty of fun coupons.

So my thought was like, H, I have money. I don't have to worry about money right now. Like that. You also see this. Yeah, we found to do nevertheless.

You know, I mean, that was the same thing with dir jobs. Once that thing LED up, I had to be willing to to sign a contract was probably illegal. I mean, IT was such a ridiculous contract the way they own you.

So that isn't crazy like no money.

But yeah but if it's a hit, if it's sticks.

we have you for ten years .

yeah or you negotiate. My age and the whole with dirty jobs was technically, I was the host and I can host that show without doing the thing in the show that made people watch, which was actually do the work yeah there's no contract that can force you to bite the balls off a sheep. right? right? You you have to be willing to do that.

And so I was able to fix that. But dana, i'm trying to remember what you're this would have been. When did the ultimate fight?

Two thousand.

five OK. So in two thousand, four dirty jobs was on the air, was in that weird space where we did know if was gonna a hit or what. But I was narrow all kinds of stuff for this guy crag polygon.

And I walked in the craig's office in hollywood, and dinner was sitting in there. I had no idea who he was. I swallowin to say hi and and date a kind of knew me or recognized me.

And craig said, hey, this guy, mike, he's narrating american chopper, american hot rod. He's nary. He just goes down the list and and dana has say something and I and I said and I said previously on the ultimate fighter and he said, fine, you'll be great.

I do tense .

that sounds .

like day .

to say .

some yeah, it's great. That's a various yeah that's interesting how things happen like that. Well, well.

you were going to, you know, you ouldn't be sitting here now if your blease wasn't up or whatever. Yeah.

probably wouldn't. I would gone back to new york.

I think the art thing, we should not be done with that. But there is something i'm thinking about. The clips you were playing, what are they call boxing? The sweet science?

yeah. So like art .

and science, I think, I think anybody who's passionate about what they do can approach what they do like a scientist, or like an artist, or maybe both.

or maybe both. I think both.

So you know, I i've got this this foundation that evolved out a dirty jobs called micros ks.

And we award these scholarships to people who don't want to go to a four year school, but who want to want to trade, right? We've been doing IT for sixteen years, and I started doing IT in part for my granddad, but mostly because there are, what, eight million jobs now that don't require four year degree, and there is one point seven trillion dollars and student loans on the books, right? That is this bananas.

And we've got these huge shortages in in the sculled trades. So I spent a lot of time talking about how that happened and what might be done to to fix IT. But regarding art, it's like you're old enough to remember what shop and metal shop.

sure. You know, before I was shop IT was IT wasn't just vote tech IT turned into the voter ch, but before I was vote tech, IT was the vocational arts. That's what they call.

And so we didn't just get rid of the vocational tional arts. We we started with a language and and we took art out of IT. And that's when I became vote tech. And then there were a bunch of other acronis and previous .

and high and weird distortion. Our society where we that we place a higher value on someone spending an enormous amount on education for a job that doesn't pay nearly as much as the education cost, where you're burdened with that, doing a job where you have to work your way up, a corporate latter that might be hell over becoming a carpenter. Yeah, over building a house.

Everybody needs a fucking house. Over being a plummer. And if if you're a guy who can figure out how to do good carpet, I if you understand how to use tools, your top properly, you have a good apprentice, you can make an incredible living.

It's very satisfying. It's skilled. It's, it's, it's a job that is creative.

It's skillful and when you're done, you bring satisfaction to other people that live in that house like there's a great benefit to IT. But our societies got this distorted view of treatment. And it's a really dumb thing because IT IT fucked you up.

Because if you're a kid and you go through the university system, you get a degree that kind of useless, but then you get a job and you're making sixty thousand dollars here and you know like, oh god, of two hundred thousand doors and student loans and i'm doing a job that's not very satisfying and i'm kind of stuck. I'm working my way up, but it's going to take a long time before I make enough money. Where not burdened by this or you could have a successful construction company by that.

I mean, you could you could get a small business loan and you you could start like like hiring other people. You get up trucks with your name on IT like I know people have done that. They live very well.

And you know IT doesn't mean you're dumb. Like a lot of these people to live very well are very self educated, they read books, they watch documentaries, they're interesting people. We've got this bizarre re thing in our head that if you didn't go to a school and get a degree, you must be a done person is weird and it's not smart. It's it's not good for for anybody to think that way.

Well, you, I very rarely play the devil s advocate in this argument, but but I do think I know why IT happened, or at least how I was in high school in the late seventies. And there was a very concerted push for what we call higher red, which, by the way, already sets the table, right? Yeah, if a tire red over here, I guess we have lower right over here.

The language is awful, but the, but the P. R, i'm end to be fair. In the fifty, sixty seventies, we needed more doctors, we need more engineers, we needed more people.

Matrix late through four year schools. But what happens with pr, at least from what i've seen, is that IT always goes too far. And IT wasn't enough. Just to make a persuasive case for that path, we had to do IT at the expense of the jobs you're talking about. So if if you don't go this way, you're gonna wind up turn in a ranch with a giant plumber, butt crack and some other ridiculous. So is a lot of stereotypes and stigma and myths and misperceptions that started to swear around the trades and that, you know I don't know when that happened, but I especially where you grow up.

like if you grow up in a place it's highly educated later mass shoots where I was boston and very, very educated place. yes. So if you a person that pursue the trades, you are, you know, probably a failure. Something like this is like all you could do because you couldn't make IT in school.

And yet you'd loved this old house. Yeah, which is a love letter to the trade, every single one. I love .

watching people make things, yeah even dumb things. Like there was a guy I think was a pbs show where he would make tools and like do like stuff the way people did like way back in the day, like you make his own plane and know and he would make furniture ship. I didn't have any desire to make furniture, but I love watching this guy because he was really into making furniture.

IT was his art. He, yeah, he was an artist, yeah. And he was authentic. He actually loved IT. Tell IT wasn't like, this is like a sm, like take ancient tools and figure out now this guy really was into IT.

Well, what's happened there for me anyway is that I I mean, after sixteen years of IT, I can tell you a pretty good story and edt ally, but now i'm able to go back and talk to people who we helped what five, six years ago, like maybe a welding certification. And it's amazing when you say, hey, how's IT going and they say, how's IT going? I'll tell you how he's going to entertain grand a year.

I bought a van, I heard my boy who's a wilder, then I heard a plumber, and I got two h fat guys and electrician. We're doing three and a half million a year, got no debt. And so like my job is is to talk to that guy and and I do that a lot on my pot tests is just like I just want to hear your I want to hear stories of people who prospered as a result of mastering a skill that's in demand.

right?

And then maybe applied some level of either artistry or entrepreneur ship or the willingness to move. That's a big one too. Know you go where the work is or you and so it's really become it's why boby Kennedy called me back in february. You know, he was like a man. This micro works thing you want to make IT micro works and I said, yeah sure what you have in mind and that's I don't know I don't know you knew this, but we had this whole conversation about like running .

together oh yeah.

He asked if I wanted to be vice president.

Oh, jez Louis.

would you say good. I was in munich. I was in munich in in january.

And he had called me earlier just to talk really generally about about the middle class because he's like, look what you've done with the foundation. This my campaign is a lot about that. And and i'd love to talk to you more about IT.

So I kind of put him in the category of elected officials, politicians who might, who might be useful, you know, on that, that guy. But I said, yeah, look, now I be happy to chat. Well, he called back and, you know, Gavin.

right?

Yeah, yeah. So, um they did a dive. This was very strange for me. They did a deep dive.

And when I get back to the bay area, he invited me down to his home to meet, you know, the cats. They were all there, and we talked for, like, three hours. And I am looking over my shoulder honestly. Like i'm being pumped.

Like, like, which one of my crazy friends, right, put you up to this? But he was serious, and and I was weirdly fluttered, maybe like, I knew I couldn't say yes, but I was so interested in what his thinking was, right. And we spoke for a few hours, and then we stayed in touch for, like the Better part of the next month. And I actually really, for the first time ever, just try to try IT on, you know, and IT didn't fit, you know, I would never do well in an office or in a bureaucracy.

He called me up once to ask me who I thought would be like, good advice. Present was terrified, was going to ask me. I was terrified as like, please don't asked that as I know he asked, well, he has earned Roger. Yeah.

which is crazy. Yeah, I I literally heard .

the sound .

of my svindal .

sliding shot. I like I jobs.

but man, i'll tell you about heat. IT was a really, he is very gracious and very direct. And I I tried to be too, and I told him, I like, look, the infectious disease thing I get that the middle class thing I totally get that the forever wars, I get all that and then he's like, my do.

Do you understand seventy seven percent of the youth today wouldn't wouldn't qualify to get into the armed forces? Do you understand what the crisis is we face right now? Never mind health, health is its own thing.

And I lot of things to say about that. But fitness, just basic fitness. You know, his uncle was staring in commercials forty five years ago that we're literally, we'd call IT fat shaming today. You know, chAllenging.

No, I just talk to him h the day before yesterday and he said, you know, google any photo of yankee stadium sold out from the sixties or even the seventies, and try and to find the fat people. They're not there. And if they are their hard to find, do IT today, they're impossible to miss. Something colosSally horrible has happened anyway. He is very passionate about all that yeah and I said, but it's an important .

message .

IT is an important .

message is lost in this idea of being a compassionate person that allows people to just be the authentic self you know and there's nothing wrong with being fat. There's nothing wrong with being big. You're being lied to OK.

You're Robing your life of vitality. It's just that's just the way IT is. And i'm sorry if you're already there, but IT doesn't help anybody to pretend that you're not there.

And the only way we get out of this is we try to figure out what happened between one hundred and sixty and twenty twenty four, what happened. And while we can figure that out, it's not columbo. This is a fucking and is like the evidence is all there.

We know what the gradients are, the bad for you. We know we've done the foot pie. We know we've done, it's real. It's readily available.

which eat when you say we though, I mean.

human banks collected collective intelligence.

What percentage of this country do you think understand?

M, this is part of the problem. And this is why benefits to have someone like that in office. Most people aren't aware of IT have had a lot of conversation people.

They have this really distorted idea of nutrition and what's important and what you need. And but what what's good to thrive, what's optimum first, is what is just going to keep you alive. These people think all, you just need a baLance diet. No, you need to take vitamins. If you do not take vitamins, you will not have a full optimization of your body.

D, M.

you have, you want to take k to, you want to take vit and k magnesium and you know there's some arguments from other stuff too. They would also enhance IT, but you you definitely need vit in day. Almost everybody does.

And if you live in a cold climate in the winter time, you know a body mind, uh this residency and um I think that was boston and he was saying people would come in and they have undetectable levels of im in day because they were just never in the sun and they they didn't supplemented at all and know this is some vitamin d in in in milk when they in bridge IT with vitamin d. But the reality is you need vitamin and you need quite a bit of IT. And if you want an optimal immune system that's really healthy, it's imperative.

It's it's really important. There's a lot of other things that are really important. Vancey is really important, vitamin b is very important and bunched different peace.

Um you need sentier fati assets are very important. You need all these things. If you don't know these things are body more function.

right? Do you think that the basic fear and conversation around skin cancer and the lotions and the coverings and the sun screens? And I mean, to what extent do you think people are not getting vitamin because they're .

been scared out of some? There's a for get certainly is from the sun. That's the way your bodies naturally designed to get vitamin e.

You're supposed to be outside all the time and IT will bring your healthier physically. It's a good for you. It's actually a hormone that your body produces when it's in the vita is a hormone. It's or a precursor to a hormone.

I guess they'll take IT really but what what is doing to your body like George samper when he was fighting with ten and he would ten specifically not to look good because it's actually Better for your health and fitness. You get more vitamin deed that way. Yeah yeah and there's there's a reality to that.

That's why people are really fucking depressed when they live in the pacific northwest because it's raining all the time. You're not getting enough of them in day. It's actually bad for your psyche.

It's bad for your mind. It's bad for your health. Again, overall vitality, if you want, have a strong vitality.

You eat nutritious food and take vitamins, and you need to exercise. There's no fans or bots about IT. You need those three things. One hundred percent, no shortcuts. No shortcuts.

I don't know that probably how many silver lining ings to the lockdown, but I did. I started walking. I've always been active, but I kind of back off of the gym as I got older and started walking every morning for eight miles. And then, you know, mike yester, he became a friend of the comfort crisis, and I started a rocking yeah. And so.

yeah, like a big component .

of the big time. yeah. In fact, when bobbie called was fun.

He's heart to understand. Sometimes I was impossible. understand? I was gasping for breath. I got sixty five pounds on my back walk, eight miles every morning. You like, what are you doing? Like to i'm dying i'm rocket but um yeah I just I think IT I think there's really something important in that book that that easter wrote and I think our it's not the specifics of what we can do.

This idea of what are the japanese call IT a soggy A A quest or or chAllenge of sorts that you should, well, you should chAllenge yourself to do every so often. And one of the one of the criterion is you should have a fifty percent chance of failure, right? So it's it's a real push into uncertainty and discomfort .

and that .

that's why I rock. It's uncomfortable.

yes. Yeah, I think that is an exercise for that part of your mind. The same way cardiff asked, exercise works through your car of actually system.

I think this comfort exercises is a real thing. And you know Andrew hutton has talked about this. There's an actually a specific area of the brain.

When you um enact voluntary discomfort and do things you don't want to do all time, IT actually grows. Member what that is nobody called that part of the brain, but he speaks about IT. Of course he is a neuroscientists much more eloquent.

But I think that's real. And I think um IT also makes regular life a lot easier. That was one of my favorite things of judicial when I found out that makes regular life easy because its regular life is not anterior mid singular cortex.

That's what that is. Engaging in chAllenging activities can stimulate and grow this region, which is crucial for learning. Excuse me, leaning into an overcoming difficulties. yeah.

And if your life is super easy and anything that comes up is a nightmare, it's probably be because you're lack and a voluntary adversity to overcome uncomfortable moments. So uncomfortable moments are rare. And when you encounter rare things, generally, people like kind of have anxious moments encounter .

and rare things anxious form of discomfort. yes. And it's not just pain that I think most people equate discomfort or comfortable ness with, like physical pain. But the way easter talks about IT, it's it's also boredom like board makes people super uncomfortable because we're so not used to specially today you can get stamp .

ideas yeah because the best .

idea has come very bored.

When you bored, I have some my best ideas when I had no radio um in my car uh because i'd just be driving and my best ideas would come out driving instead of being entertained. I just really like thinking you're constantly thinking, yeah you know and when you're involved in ordinary activity, like driving where you just so sort of like plug in, like hate your blank kers change lanes, you're so a plug then so you're like this weird mindset and then if there's no nothing entertaining you, your mind just starts thinking about things.

right because you come up with great ideas, your mind, your brain will find whatever you send IT out to look for. Yeah, it'll just search and search until IT finds IT. And if you don't give IT anything, then IT it'll look inward. It'll find something you know called lunches, not comfortable yeah but you know if you can find a way to to like IT I don't .

like IT I don't like IT know I do IT every day I hate IT yeah but I love IT. Get out at the moment, forgetting and always like, can I talk myself to you?

Yeah, I don't want to do this right.

It's fucking cold outside, forty degrees outside. I'm climbing the thirty four degree of water. But, but, but because I do IT, I know that i've already done something way more difficult than most of my day.

I think there's a difference in in knowing what the benefits are of a cold plunge, which would require you to do some research and do some reading and do some thinking and so forth versus just saying, okay, I know there's some benefit. I don't actually need to know specifically what IT is. I just need to know that there's a an overarching benefit in embracing the sock yeah, I need you know and if I do that a couple of times a day, I think i'm going to be Better for IT. And and that's useful that's been useful to me.

that's useful. But IT also is beneficial physical. So it's both things. I think that's the case with exercise too, but also the case with sona difficult things that are also very beneficial physically. They seem to go hand hand because it's the hormel effect, your bodies freaking out because the cold, and that's why produces all these cold shock proteins, and that's why ah IT produces all these anti flaming ies.

Your body just feels Better when you get out the indoor for and rush you get no the um north and append this flood of these chemicals that last for hours rap up your dope may be like two hundred percent and IT last for hours like you genuinely feel Better. So there's all that. It's also good for recovery, muscle sand and just general information.

There's a lot of like benefits, but that's the same with exercise, right? It's difficult to do is hard to do. But if you can do that, man, you're be stronger, healthier, you feel Better.

It's like it's like you've got to a go through that sucks to get those benefits and people don't like that. And so they come up with a bunch of reasons why you don't need that. That's just a that's just this.

第二个 shit， everybody says that they looked like shit. They all talk like buses. They're all just their cowards.

They are afraid to get in there. They don't like get in there. They don't like the other people get in there every day. They don't get in there every day. So they come up with the reason why getting in there is not really worth IT bunch of hot water is the latest found this, is that.

And yet, look at the stadium fifty years ago and look at IT today. Yeah, the evidence demands a verdict. Something, something awful has happened.

It's like the difference between being hungry and feeling hungry. You know that something else, I think about a lot. I mean, how often do we say maybe you'd not put how often do you here got starving? I'm i'm famished like, no.

you're not. You are really, really not.

You can't possibly be. Yeah.

talk to a fighter is trying to make weight. Those guys are famished guys. They have no water in their body.

Yeah, for the week before they're living in hell. They're live in hell. Some of those guys, they start their cut like four, five days out. crazy. They that starving you got to really that's only your voluntary, voluntarily starving.

You know it's not real starving, real star wings like you might not be able to eat, you might not be able to feed your kids. You're just using willow wer to starve. That's so different than in any other time in history. It's a different feeling. You know like if you're a person that's making your way across the country and the war, the war, and breaks .

after party table for two.

and that's real starving, real starving.

You ever read as a booked ban athenian filler? C, it's called in the heart of the sea. no.

Oh, man, this is the true story of the sinking of a whale, all the call the essex right. And the thinking of the ship inspired her man, melville, to write mobi dick. And what happened was in, I think, was eighteen twenty one.

The whaling industry in that target is so fascinating. This man, tok IT, back then, was basically run by women, because the men would go out for two, sometimes three years at a time, chase hunting right whales, which are just sperm whales. They all years, yeah, they were called right whales because they were the right whales to kill, right? And at that time, I was a great source of energy for the country. All the lamplit .

burned .

on schools. There were so many. We this book will. I mean, it's it's written in a lot of different ways. It's where they got the expression stealing down.

Actually, IT was because he was just the women, and IT was a device used for pleasure, not so because the men were all out to god. So y'd use a stealing down. But you want .

to talk about hard lives.

the business, whatever IT takes to shoot the elk and get IT down from the mountain. I get IT that that's a thing. But when you read through the real process of getting a sperm whale out of the ocean alongside the ship and then onto the ship, and the cutting of the bomber and the culture ins that burned twenty four, seven on the deck and the blubb that's put into the culture.

and so they are just making this rendered.

that they're rendering the fat in the oil. And, 哦， wow. And because they have to rot, that's right.

And so they just load up the boats. So what happens? This is .

not really, yes, no. Of the eating they've got.

they have got their heart tch, mostly heart tech is just kind of like crackers, biscuits with no real taste at all. IT, was the is the currency here used anything like a scarf? Y you, I mean, but they these guys would go all around the world. And this boat, the essex, was a couple thousand miles off the coast of venezia. A and what happens is it's the ship is the main ship with the guys on IT.

And then when you see a right, you basically put the whale boats in the water, and these are smaller, maybe twenty two feet long, and men row them, right? And so you, harpo, in the whale, and then you hang on and go for what they call a and then tucket slay ride. So, so the whale, which just drag with .

the world goes under.

can go under much further, can pull two boats down. And IT doesn't. They tend to swim in in a straight line after they have been hard phones. You just hang on. And then when IT tires itself out, you rote IT and you back to the whale ship.

Do they kill IT first?

Um well no, no, it's killed back at the at the ship. Typically you don't want to kill IT when it's when you're a mile from the ship because you got to drag IT back.

They know how smart where else were .

either we know anything but that .

crazy that only a couple hundred years ago, eighteen to twenty one, and then not well, couple of years ago, the oceans filled with well.

filled with them like that .

because if you look now, they're hard to find and nothing hunts them.

No, I never .

really thought about IT.

They were everywhere.

I think I knew about IT, but I never thought about IT. I never I mean, we've talked a lot about the um the design of the fish population in the ocean about like ninety plus percent of all the big Fisher gone yeah which is really nuts but I never really thought about IT that way when IT .

comes to wales. Well, you can make a really good and .

really controversy your .

case yeah yeah how made this? Yes, it's amazing. Look at me were everywhere, so these guys harpoon one that's so from the wAiling at then they get .

tagged the alongst.

And then while they're out maybe a mile from the ship, the mate of the male of the whale that was harpooned starts ramming the ship rams at three times. No sinks. IT.

Now you ve got a couple dozen guys in whale boats two thousand miles off the coast of south amErica with no supplies. So what happens? And yet this is all in the in the preface.

But the story basically starts when what of the whale boats is discovered. Not far from, I think, as venezuela and the guys look over the the gunner of of their boat and in the airboat. It's just like a giant crocus. It's just bleached bones all in IT, except for two quasi humans, one in the stern and one in the bow, each skeletons huddled up, staring each other with wild eyes, just waiting to see who would die next.

So here .

and there were rules, there were almost like cookbooks that were very common.

How many people .

are on these boats? Double check me, jammy. But I think that we're probably a dozen on each one. Many family members. That was a cabin boy name, john coffin, I remember. And and there were, I mean, a lot of these guys were related and they they were dear friends and family. They live together on the tocked.

They each other.

they ate each other. Man who.

how long was IT before they discovered them?

They were at sea drift, I think, for the Better part of three months. One of the night that in that fill brook fanta was rained and sound and angry, well, leaving the desperate for more than ninety days in three tiny boats.

When did this movie come out? Fifteen for the movie cripes was found in nineteen sixty, verified in thousand .

and eighty eight. You want to take a deep dive, go to the like, the whaling museum up in new england. The stuff is this. I mean, in the day there were strict protocols on how to eat your friend, how to prepare your friend for .

consent on the spot, or do they have them prepare device on spot?

There was what the rules? No, no. They were written IT. IT was like a maritime code.

So they kind of knew that this is possibility.

They know was a certainty. They just didn't know for home, or this was common. This to find yourself with a group of people hopelessly ironed, whether you're on a boat or an island with nothing to eat at all. There were protocols, pretty strict protocols, on how to draw lots, to decide who would go first, how to kill the .

person who would go first.

who not to eat based on the degree of your relation.

Oh boy.

so like, brothers are definitely off, but cousins not optimal. So like people were being prepared for consumption. I mean, I can't imagine how you would make a fire out there. Oh my god, unspeakable.

Od, that's interesting.

Oin chase, right?

The men spent over three months the scene had to resort to cannabis ism order to survive, capped in powered. And charley ramsdell were discovered knowing on the bones of their shipmates in one boat. O en chase, Lawrence and nicos also survived to tell the tale. In all, seven sailors were consumed. Well.

see, this is why non fiction is the best.

I know it's .

nasty, but I mean.

that book, at the point time you got to go, I might wind up in hell before I starved to death, because i've eat everyone else. Right when you're knowing you're starving to death and and you've or eat everyone else, oh my god.

because there's going to .

be one last person. Then there was one go. I know.

I know .

reality is so terrifying that regard that we have you, we were so fortunate that there's so much food available, the poorest amounts us her fat. But the reality is, if that cut off, IT would be real desperate, real que, most people get really hungry after five hours.

you know, they feel .

really hungry. Description OK, okay. The crew quoted chase, separated limbs from his body and cut all the flesh from the bones. After which we opened the body, took out the heart and then close that again, sorted up as decently as we could, and committed IT to the sea. They then ate the man's organs.

Soon they began to draw lots to see who would be shot and eat next, a custom of maron sailors dating back to the seventeenth century. Three men in one boats survived in two and another. Three men who remained behind on henderson island were also rescued after surviving on eggs and craps for nearly four months. Boy.

and this is why we have mobile. Dick w, this is why the greatest american novel, arguably of all time, was written because came from that part of the world. And he understood the stakes of hunting wales, and he understood the absolute imperative need to get energy. You can make a really interesting and controversial case around how the fossil fuel industry save the whales. You have heard .

this before because .

had had that not happened in pennsylvanian entities field. Yeah, not long after this, we've hunted them into a living.

Well, we almost do that to mam's north amErica and market hunting um there used to be alkan every state in the country. They used to be deer everywhere um and we basically hunt them into a oblivion the bufo is the best example of that. Of course.

the hell is a matter with this man.

Oh, we're fucked up. We don't see consequences. We see what's in front of us right now, what we need to do.

And back then, they didn't really have a real understanding of what would happen that had never been done before. Nobody just showed up at a continent and filled with mama and just start decimate them. That wasn't like a history that he was.

Also, the invent of the firearm was fairly recent, so there was a lot easier to get these animals, you know. And then they had the hendry rifles, so the long range rifles, so they were able to shoot buffo from a distance. And and then they, you know, for a lot of them, they only use their tongues, they pickled their tongs and send them back east.

I was in a caster couple of weeks ago for a buffalo round up.

H, wow.

man, this was a kick. This is so, this is western south dakota, not far from crazy horse. And rush more. We worked on a crazy horse for dirty jobs. We did an episode .

mean the sculpture. Yeah, sculptures. weird. Because there's no real drawing or painting or anything, no photographs of crazy horse. Nobody knows really what he looked like.

Well, they're working from A A model that seems to have been blessed by all the appropriate parties. But this they started working on this thing fifty years ago, and it's gonna another forty before they're done. I worked on the finger now of crazy horse with a whole crew .

was a look now I haven't seen IT.

Oh, you'll love this year. It's it's, it's so mine. But you you can take all of rush more, all foreheads and put in on the of crazy, worse. Wow, that's how big this thing is.

And wasn't IT like one families .

undertaking? Yeah, cord gorcher go .

at last picture that you just had that went right there. So that shows, and after that shows where IT was a while back and where IT is.

Now look at his finger in the lower right. That's what you worked on. Yeah and I scale down his forehead to do basically some tighten up of his nostros. What we were there it's .

it's crazy.

Hope it's massive. It's absolutely massive. And yeah, this there was guy cortex was his name and he was an immigrant and he loved the indian people and that that's the model there the right yeah, that's what that's what we're shoot and for it's gonna another half a century probably that's .

incredible and it's funny. It's very controversial and among native american community so right?

I don't know. I know. I think so there's .

a part of is the thing that crazy horse didn't want to be photographed yeah you know he really believed that cameras were like, Steven yeah that was A A belief backend which when come well.

you have this novel .

thing where you know one's ever seen IT before you take an image of someone like that like IT .

was like it's diminishes .

you yeah also human beings at that point time, we're so horrible to each other. And these sectors have done essentially demonic things to the population just with disease bringing diseases. So of course, they would say, what are they doing now? This is the fucking and cute gram.

They're na steal our soul. This fucking in box big thing goes off. You got to stand still.

This guy, correct? He was so brilliant on so many levels, yeah, I think get thirteen kids. And that they were basically his workforce.

He built into the rock, the staircases that they needed to take to get to the space. The like, the work ethnic is mind boggling. What they did. And he was, he was a real friend to native americans. And he, in this was a love letter for them and to them. And and who was crazy horses was at sitting there, maybe I forget, but you know, he he had all of the he had enough blessings of the recruit players to to embark on this thing.

I think anything, anytime of some enormous thing, you're going to have controversy. Well, you're going to people they don't like IT. They do like IT. You know this for sure of what you do.

But the difference of me, for me, I called when we brought, we brought duty jobs back during the lockdown, because I just felt like I wanted to be, I wanted to be the first show back on the TV. You know, that was, that was shooting. And this was one of the first things that that we did.

But I started by calling rushmore, and I am not telling the story to make anything sound bad, but I really just was kind of appalling. You know, I said, look, I want to bring my crew and and I am really, I want to tend to the statue, this statue wary, this monument at the time, you know, the headlines were filled with statues being pulled down and being disrespected for any number of reasons, right? Like, look, I think, I think the park service doesn't amazing duty.

And and and I I want to meet the care takers of our statues. And I would love, you know, to work on this with the people who work on IT and and they not only said, no, they were like, are you are you crazy? We would never, we would never permit anything like that.

Like I think they thought I was exploitive somehow. And i'm like, I want amErica to learn the story of rush more. I want them to learn something about the people memorialized on IT.

I wanted to meet the people who care for is just a love letter to one of our monuments. But I was so hard. no.

And I really wanted to go to that part of the country. And so we I knew crazy horse was nearby, and the answer was, oh yeah, come on out any time. And the difference, of course, was crazy horse isn't being built with a penny of federal money that has no federal oversight. It's very personal to this family. And the people who are still in charge, but are true custodians of IT is really interesting when you when you talk to people who are in charge of a thing that that means a lot to other people.

monumental in reality.

monumental monuments. Yeah, yeah. And some people, I think, see IT as a burden, some as a chAllenge, some as an obligation. But for me, I know the vast majority of americans are never going to see other one of those monuments in person. So to show them more, people will have just seen what Jamie put up here as a result of this, probably then will then will visit in person. And that's amazing.

dude. Yeah.

when you think about a couple of guys smoke in the guards and simple of coffee and just pass in the time, and all of a sudden you're able to learn about the way they drew lots and the way we where we got our energy from. Just a little while ago, this buffalo round up, I was telling you about, I mean, it's there were only a couple thousand of them and when you think about the accounts of the of the day when where where the buffalo rome was as far as you could see.

just thick do you know um dan Floras, you know .

tell .

me he wrote a american coyote and is IT a buffalo diplomacy, buffalo ecology, I forget, but the buffo premise is very fascine, because the numbers of buffo, he believes, but they were in such large numbers, because so many native americans died out because of diseases. So the native americans would follow the buffalo, hunt them and kill them, takes a long time for gestation for a buffalo.

So in the buffalo have new buffalo IT take its a long time to repopulate, yes, but if the native amErica is, ninety percent of them were wiped out by disease when the settlers came here. So there's no one hunting them for a long time. And so the population grew immense.

And so that this was not something that was reported when the first settlers got here, when the first people came to the first europeans came to north amErica and made their way across the country, never that they describe massive herds above alo. IT wasn't a thing. IT wasn't a thing until after the native american population had been designated by disease.

And then the buffaler flourished and became overpopulated, in a sense, an unnatural pop, because they didn't have to wear about wolves. They didn't have to wear. So when they first were here, right, buffalo existed far back before the the there was a mass extinction of like sixty five percent of the north american mammal, coincided with the end of the ice age and probably had to do with the Younger drives impact.

which is a theory.

It's a eleven well, there's two different time periods they attribute to um there's there's a shower and astro child that we go. If you really want to get into this, you should really look up the Younger drive impact theory online and then there's going to rando carlsson and who's a kind of dedicated his life to showing that this is probably what ended the ice age. There's a bunch of science behind IT in terms of like core samples.

And if they do that. Shows that there's asteroid ID impact that happened all over the world during this particular time period. And he thinks that coincided with the extinction of the Willy mamo, the american line.

A lot of different animals that just died off. Sixty five percent of north american mama died off during this time period. And you got ta think like when the buffalo existed back then, they existed with and the north american line, which was bigger than the african line, the biggest line ever.

So they're get jack by these massive predators. And then you have this extinction event, and then you have human start hunting them. So humans, now, horses have been reintroduced north amErica by europeans.

Humans are on these horses, and then they're hunt in these animals. Reintroduced, by the way, as horses originated in north america, including zebras, all horse species came from here. But that was the north, the bearing language, and things moved around.

And when they, the mass extinction event happened, they killed off all the horses here. But then there were horses over there that they kind of extra from amErica brought them back in. And now native americans of horses.

And so they are really effective at hunting buffalo. They get the numbers down to a number where when people are making anywhere across the country, they're not seeing them everywhere. And then you have this mass event where ninety percent of native americans die, then you have millions above alo. This is a day flour rights about .

this really interested, eighteen.

thirty, forty. You'd have to .

go to whatever, twenty years. Yes, the tragedy for me, I narrated a special about all that I can remember a man, really. I mean, I remember enough of you to know that I narrow IT. That's what I would told you three hours ago.

I burns, one is what you got .

a bit good, a bit. I know if that was, can burns he? He always hire a Peter coyote.

Peter is great.

Yeah, but I am. That's what I meant earlier when i'm like I feel I don't think there's anything wrong with me yet, but my buckets full too and it's so annoying like I was talking to a friend of mine just yesterday about how the universe works, which is a show i've been nearing for the sciences channel literally for ten years.

And you know.

he he he knows all of the information in the show, but he thinks because he heard me tell IT to him, that I know IT too, but I i'm just a Jason to IT. I know just enough you know to keep a conversation on its feet, but it's like it's a constant thing that i'm older than i've ever been and it's just nagging at me now because it's like got them. I should know I I should remember more that I should I should have remembered more about philbrick. I should have remembered more about um I .

don't think there was a designed for IT. I don't and I think the humans like yourself, is this is kind of a new thing in terms of human history, people that are exposed to so many different things, so many different topics, so many different experts, so many different timelines and stories you're dealing with, that's it's essentially a new thing with human and human beings.

You know what done bars number is done bars numbers, the number of people that you can keep like in your mind, me in your memory, right? That's essentially born out of necessity and tribal life, right? So we essentially have the same brains and the same capacity, same hard drive as people lived in tribes ten thousand years ago. And but we're still stuck with this hard drive, with this world that has an end supply of information is consistently bombarding you with new fact.

I read IT like, build clinton number is way. I like certain people's numbers so they can .

keep in the head like the .

number of people keep IT probably is .

a part of your brain. Expand difficult things IT probably explains .

there a podcast you know dedicated to what happened on your podcast. Know that yeah, there's a podcast out there basically called again what called experiencing the joo gan experience for something because because there's too much information on your show, right, right? There's just too much, and people who love IT get anxious because they can process all of IT.

And so like, there's an ecosystem in the words, there's a docent to bring IT back to art. This is what we need. I think more than anything today, we need somebody like if you're gonna go to an art museum, you need somebody to lead, you throw.

I do anyway, somebody who can IT helps IT helps man, if you're gonna go see if if you're going to go see a martial arts fight for the first time, if you're gone to go to the octagon IT be Better to sit next to you than than me. sure. So everybody annoying.

you know. Okay, how much you know why that .

hurt here? Let me, let me show you. Can you feel that? I'm just saying that I think more than ever before, people need a guide. They need somebody to make sense out of all the information because I don't think there's any there's not much new information. It's just accessible .

in ways we have this .

new information .

to how because its information is acquired upon the consumption of all the other information, like it's all exponential, a piles on top of each other. It's it's not just now we know because of the new information, because the information that we've occur. E, now we have a new understanding, so that's new information.

You know, nutrition, there's constantly new information. Nutrition has that possible people in eating forever, because now we know more about IT. So this is new information.

Well, it's there's no such thing as an old joke if you heard for the first time, right? So if I just learn that vitamin d is important, but Better assist later with magnesium in k two, I might say that a new information but you would go, no, that's old information. You're just learning IT abit.

It's fairly new anyway because nutritional science is really only around for one hundred plus years and the understanding of IT today is far greater than at any other time in our life because of guys like cuba, man, because of these different scientists that have dedicated themselves to educating people about nutrition.

The process that your body goes through and IT absorbs nutrition, like, and what what enhances is that? What do you know? Enzi.

different things. You way, there is a body of information that exists that I don't know, and then there is a body of new information that I also don't know, because it's new, right? And the body of the stuff that I don't know yet, what's been around forever is massive.

Master, the new stuff is new. And I don't know how big IT is, but it's not as big as this incredible repository of stuff. Like when I walk in a librarian, look, just look at all that stuff. Man, look at this coast thing here in my hand and sink. Oh my god, if I have an internet connection, I have access .

to ninety eight percent of everything that we've ever now. Yeah.

now that either makes you intensely curious or intensely uneasy, because now you know both maybe, but you have IT. Now you like like if you're not, like, what are you doing? Like you're sitting on the toilet.

Are you are you really are you tik talking? Like, how are you spending the one truly finite resource you have at your time? What are you doing with that man?

A lot of us getting distracted chases.

yeah but there are stories, their buffle of stories and whale stories.

They're out there think that's why people like your shows. You know, I think that's why people like podcast. I think that's why people are interested in documentary. There are still people out there that are .

interested .

in being curious for sure.

Yes, yes, joe IT is done. It's a pleasant living.

This man is been also dog and I really appreciated IT was a lot of fun was just fucked and flu by i'm just I mean .

full disclose your i'm kinder relief to how I was getting so annoyed with friends of mine who really I came in why haven't you been on the show what's i'm like, maybe my mother said maybe is not that into you.

It's just the time thing. There's a lot of people out there, but I really did want to talk to you.

Can I show you a truck before we go?

sure.

Because I know you a car guy. yeah. So this company called sugar creek, up an ohio, made me a truck.

我看。

well, IT started as one thousand nine hundred and sixty four dodge power wagon. IT ended up as this do.

I've seen that online.

That's yours.

That's mine. That's crazy. I love those old power wagons. Do that thing was incredible. What a great job is on.

It's unbelievable. Twenty, it's about nine thousand hours.

Oh my god, that thing was a fucking incredible. You got a halphen engine .

and eleven horse power. My .

goodness, look at that. What's got A T oix hood?

It's.

哇， wow, that's good. That's fucking great. Oh, do you drive that?

Barret Jackson? Is gna auction that off? No, in january, my foundation needs money. And so it's going to get A, I don't know what you to go for, he says a bunch.

But h, that will go for a lot of money. Man, yeah, that's probably to go for a half a million dollars.

at least two .

million. Two million dollars probably cost.

Hf, a few. Wow, beats me. You know, this is another one of those.

And the options are crazy, because a bunch of rich guys, I get there, I want IT. And then they started feed. Look at this work, and that's incredible. Two million dollars.

Well, who knows? But I I went up to columbus to see the garage where they make this thing. And you need to put this on your list of stuff to do when your pockets not overflowing.

Cause a guy called john Richardson, who owns the biggest bacon factory in the country, sugar creek, is crazy automotive freak. And he built this gig age. He had twenty seven servants, and all they do is take classic cars from his sort of qazi jonny yard and turn them them into these games.

H, wow. So he built this for me. And barry Jackson said, yeah, will auction IT off? So I went up there with my crew just to look these guys, men.

it's what would how would never able let that thing go?

It's the art. We were talking .

about hundred. Yeah, mike, appreciate you very much. Brand, you.