#2234 - Marc Andreessen
03:14:56 Share

The joe rogan experience.

Hello.

good to see. Thanks for me back.

My pleasure. Good to see where the world still functional.

mazing. Yeah, amazing.

We wanted to talk. You wanted to talk about the post election sort of a rap up, sort of where we're stand.

are happy, very happy.

That was weird one morning in america. That was one of the first time ever I felt hopeful after an election, like you should, to seen the Green room with the comedy club. Everybody was like, yes, yes.

So my theory is the time line, like in a science fiction move, the time line has looked twice in the last, in the last like nine months.

What was the first split?

There was one. Trump got shot. yeah. And there was that moment where the world was just going to have in two totally different directions.

right? If he got hit.

yeah, yeah. And we saw the most conspicuous ous display of physical bravery .

i've ever right .

at that moment. exactly. And they could have gone you horrifically badly for the entire role after .

that was put that out there. Horrible karma. I mean, that's a total arian disown an nightmare.

That's the ad place yeah and time I play in an election day.

I know you're you fancy a good conspiracy theory yes. And that gentlemen being able to pull off what he did. And you know the way that happened, the way that all went down, is it's a letter vi oswald two point o oh yeah .

clearly yes, the shooter yeah that we still don't know anything.

There's no call for disclosure. There's no call for a press conference, is no toxicology report. The toxicology report had to have been done when you wanted know like what kind of stuff this kid is on that made him want to do that or if anything.

So my theory is it's almost as if the people want us to think it's a conspiracy. Like it's almost like the whole thing is almost orchestrated, like it's just it's so strange zis like the rapid remain like that the whole thing which is completely with are and then you're exactly right. Like no hearings, no nothing, no nothing said that I expect this will change, right?

So do you think they going to do a dive into what happened?

I think I would I don't know that I know I certainly would if I was in a position to do that.

I wonder what they can actually find. I mean, I don't know if they wanted IT to be a conspiracy that people talked about, or if that simply the best way to pull IT off .

or it's just yeah or it's just, you know, as we saw, I think in the hearing afterwards, maybe just a systemic .

collapse component. There's a confident in the fact that the the news timely today is so rapid the when things are relevant and people are paying attention to them is you have a couple days even with an assassin attempt on a former president where people were murdered and there's it's in now yeah I think it's exactly .

I think the new cycle now is like a two to three day social media firestorm. And we just cycle from one of the next. Yeah, and we have the memory of gold fish.

And you know, things right? Things that would have been redefining, just come and go with astonishing speed up and struck. By the way, I should say I don't think there was I double.

There was a experience, anything anything possible. I think we just if we have accomplish collapse, and I think we saw that on display. The director at the time, you know, testified.

well, there's all the elements that I could have been in company.

but this is kind of thing, which is this like, IT also could have been right. Systemic companies could is like, okay, I would I be Better off for the institute? You know, that looks like conspiracy, right? You, which OK two time, but which world you would you rather live in? The one of the the or the one was just like in component everywhere.

Well, I think you have both simultaneously. I don't think it's binary, right? I think there's incompetents ts everywhere.

And conspiracies are legitimate. They're real. And that one seems like conspiracy y the fact that is, his house was professor scrubs. There's no social media record of his kid online. There's no nothing.

He's the only kid of his generation who's that fired up about politics to have no one that .

doesn't and republic in the whole thing. So weird and .

was like became a great shooter.

And well, he definitely trained. Yeah, like you could train someone to become a good shooter. This is all you have to do.

Don't move and do that. Get all your mechanics in place. Understand technique and positioning. Breathing is not like the most complicated thing from a prone position, but the fact that he chose to use iron sights, I thought, was weird too. There's a lot of weird to IT, you know, from one hundred and forty arts with a scope that is an easy shot.

Well, then the ticket.

just like wander up. That's the different timing, the different timelines. He has a scope that's right. And trump dead and then boy yeah boy, we live in a crazy world then ah completely .

I mean what .

does the streets look like right now? What of like protest and riots? And we like january six was nice they had killed trump. That would be january six on steroids everywhere .

would experience. I mean, no, I don't know. I want to get my my high school just got a boot like copy a puter film, which ganger high school.

He was actually pretty focused .

on that he was really love and assassins. So a lot of time and you know know you kind of watch IT frame by frame and you can can see what happening with this. Lots of questions.

But like when things like that happened, you know today, it's going to be high definition for k ultra round up forever yeah right? Playing on any real time forever. And so like I very much don't want to live in the world world. Those things happen.

Well, we are very fortunate. I mean, I like I said after the election, I was like, wow, voting works. Voting works that's nice like they don't have the system completely rigged and then but they kind of tried to rigg ate at least with the media where the real rigging in the twenty, twenty elections me you didn't cast all your conspiracies upon IT was in terms of like male balls and all this jazz. The real rigging was the collusion between social media companies and the government to suppress information that would have altered the effect of the election.

That's legitimate yeah, that was like difference. And I was by a lot of former intelligence officials and by the rent administration, you know, tons of pressure on censorship coming from the current administration and all their kind of arms censorship.

You have your hands in the tech community of your fingers and all that. Js, like, what was the general attitude about all that stuff when that was revealed? How did how did people, you know, how did your peers respond to that? I think .

anybody in social media, the internet companies, knew IT. So I think IT was pretty Willy understood. I think there's nothing that happened at twitter and the twitter files that wasn't happening all the, all the of the companies, right? So it's it's a consistent pattern.

If you got the youtube files, they would look exactly the same. And of course, we should get the youtube 的 we probably will now in this new administration is probably going to call this stuff open。 But yeah, no.

Look, IT was a pattern. And then, you know, the companies be a lot of responsibility. And the people in the companies you made a lot of, I think, that judges calls.

But the government, like the biden White house, was directly exerting censorship pressure on american companies to sensor american citizens, which, which I think, by the way, is just slightly illegal, like I think is actually subject to criminal charges. Like, I think there are people, the criminal ability, who are involved in this. So there was that there are also members of congress doing the same thing, which is also illegal. And then there was a lot of funding of outside third party groups that were that were bringing a lot of pressure. Downer censorship yeah and not just an example, that is there is a unit at stanford, you know right next door um know us that know was the internet censor ship unit that was fined by the government and exerted tremendous pressure on the companies to the sensor IT was in was very .

effective at doing so. Does that smell like sofa when you walk?

Those all IT is very dark and rim, um this whole thing is very bad. Um and so ford, yeah yeah, I stand. Yeah stanford stanford by the other unit like that, a harvard bunchy universities get pulled into this a lot of ng and our profits get pulled into this.

And so the twitter files showed us kind of the basic road map um and then there is this thing of the weapon zone committee, the congressman Jordan running that has also revealed a lot of this. But I I would imagine the new trip administration is onna commit in carbo that went open. And I know that there are people and you being a planned to senior positions, so we're very determined to do that.

One of things that I found really kind of shocking was when they revealed how much money the democrats had spent on the election and how much money was spent on activist groups. So, like more than one hundred million dollars, right?

Yeah, just there's extensive government funding, a lot of of politically orient ags. yeah. eg. S one of those great teri non government or organization. Like what the hell is that?

What is that? Tell me, I don't know. Well.

it's it's sort of a charity and but it's ort of but most of the time it's a political it's an entity with the political agenda. But then it's funded by the government in a very large percentage of case is including the the G S in the censorship complex like the government grants, national size position grants, like direct the state department grants, yeah right, direct money. And then okay, now you've got n funded by the government.

What is not an ng? Like, right? That's A G O. right? right? And then you've got a concern like and say, then you have a conspiracy.

You have got government officials using government money to fund when what look like, private organizations that aren't. And then what happens is the government outsources to these in chaos, the things that is not legally allowed to do. What like censorship OK like violation.

The first member, right?

The first is the first, always says the first. Women only applied ed to the government. The first amendment. Ys, the government cannot consent american citizen. And so what they do is, if you want to sense american citizen in the government, if you're smart, you don't do that. What you do is you fund and outside organza, then you have them do IT boy.

right?

And that's what's been happening, right? That's like hire in a .

hit man like IT sound okay to murder someone, but if you can hire someone to murder someone.

then yeah and if you want to solve a murder, it's not enough to find out who the hit man was. You have to find out who paid the hit man right? You out of the chain. And so A A lot of these traces into the White house, the best defensive the companies have is that a lot of this happened under coercion, right?

Because when the government, when the government puts pressure on you, like IT might be a phone call, IT might be a letter, IT might be the threat of investigation, IT might be a sepa, IT could take many forms. But when the government does that, IT Carries. That's a very powerful message, like a message from a modest right, right? Don't you want to do me a favor? No, yes.

mr. Camp, no, I do. right. Like I like my corner store. I like a tonight on fire tonight, right? And so there's this overwhelming hammer blow pressure that comes in. Um and by the way, even when the government doesn't talk you directly, if they're fun in the organza that is talking to you and it's very clear what's happening, so you come under credible pressure. And so the whole kind of chain the whole chain of government's active as universities and companies so corrupt that and then on top of that, people in the companies in a lot of cases made a lot of decisions that I think they are probably increasingly .

starting to regret.

What was confusing to me was that the government spent so much money on these activist groups during the election, and I didn't understand, like what purpose that would serve, like what, what function would IT serve to spend all this money on these activist groups that already support you supposedly? Like, are you bribing them to support you? Are they? What are they? Are they? Are you paying them to go on talk shows and consistently repeat the government's message, the current administrations message? Like, what will be the function of that?

So I think of some way, some cases is just paid to play, right? So for this example, we know that commons campaign paid certain on her personalities file in. And it's your point.

People are very supportive of of camera who have then gave her me know interviews that they weren't really well. So I I think in some cases, you just have straight paid to play. That's just how that system works, is just expected.

And then I think you have other oranienburg like these ngos and others activist groups where they're actually know they actually do feel activities, right? And so there maybe there is a gout devote component here. There is no no social media influence downs am component. There's some other feel activity. This happening in support of the election.

I just didn't think that they paid like when it's still unclear whether not celebrities got paid to endorser right if you they .

have mixed IT up because there like oh process, her production company was paid to put on the production, but he was .

not paid for the interview. But I just turned five and so the production company and my production company gets paid two point five billion dollars to endorse trump and then I go, I didn't get any that money. People like shell p fucked up.

It's your company we talking about, yes. And also, how much is the cost to do an event? How does IT cost two point five million dollars to put an event? Like, are you feeding people gold sandwich? What are you doing? Like.

how is that possible? Yes, exactly. So yeah. And then because the fact is deliberately officiated, of course.

I just thought the really bizarre one was the allegations. And I said, unsubstantial allegations, it's been alleged that be once I got ten million dollars and liza got three million dollars and and I got one point eight million dog.

Really, I think if you just like publish all these numbers, these celebrities ties.

you'll get so matter each other.

then you everything right? The lions serious right now, right? Yeah, this is probably listen to this right now being like, what?

Well, I wonder if liz s like, I can get shit, I would say IT, but why have they said IT like, be once has been mum about the whole thing.

I think I would probably say, like, I didn't get any money to do that, but that was a weird d one two because a lot of people thought beyond I was gona do a concert, right? And he just went out there and talk and numbers like, fuck because they all came to see a free bion's a concert and then SHE just said, I wanted support. Come on, Harris and I was like, good, good.

Now if you like IT, then you should have put a ring on IT. Come on, I love your songs. Yes, that's what we're here for. Yes.

I just .

didn't think that IT was even possible that A I didn't think a candidate would ever pay for an endorsement. No, I mean.

the fact that there was even a ledge, yes, there the even stink version, arguably, which is all of the social media influence or campaigns. Now.

that's for sure, because I know people personally who approached multiple times and offered a substantial amount of money to post things in support of hrs. yes.

And like, I broke capitalism and i'm happy they get paid. But like, maybe we should know.

yeah, that seems like something you should absolutely have to disclose. IT should be like, like, say, if I was going to do an ad for, know, whatever certain coffee can be, black rifle coffee. And I did IT on my instagram, I D have to say ad.

I have to say this is an ad to paid add. And that's part of the thing. You know, this is your company.

Like you're supposed to say they're paying me to do this. yes. Well, you don't. Look.

I have the good news for thesis. We learn each ycl. We learn lot about how politics works. We learn about lot about how I could is. We learned a lot about the things we put up with for a very long time. I mean, everybody y's always like freak out by like whatever the new guy does, but like the real scandal in most cases, I think, is the just the way the system he works.

It's a sneaky system. Well, another fascinating aspect of the system that we learned up this time around is the uncontrolled aspect of IT. Like what a trump called earned media was much more powerful than anything else.

The uncontrolled version of IT, like one of things that, unfortunately for them, mass media or corporate media has done, is they've diminish their credibility. So much, so much so that a joy read was on TV today talking about saying that trump was gonna ot protesters and just wild unsubstantial crazy shit. And the more they do stuff like that, the more that they say things like that, the more IT diminishes their impact and the more IT drives people to independent media sources.

Yes, i'm sure you have seen the readings collapse. They are to there like A, B, C is done like fifty thousand people in the eight twenty eight to forty nine demo that is so wild, which is tiny. It's so crazy.

It's really tiny. So I think that's happening. Um the gale organization has done polls on trust and institutions, including media for the last sixty years.

It's spent a steady slide down um and in the last four years, it's fAllen off a Cliff. I think it's really there is another story that came out of the kids are not watching a lot less T V. Kids are just giving up on T V. Yeah they're just know they're on youtube, tiktok and instagram and other things um and so like I I I think it's tipping uh, question i've been asking myself as when will they actually you know famously one thousand nine hundred sixty was the first teleview election, right? You know the legend hazard because the one were the televised debate really mattered and if you saw the televised debate, you saw confidence, ney and nurse next and and .

if you heard enhances veness .

and vitality health ah right and all all these things out of positive positive spirit, positive energy. I actually not this might be have have been the first internet election or maybe we actually haven't had IT yet.

Like I feel like we're really close to the first internet election, but maybe it's not only is an army that specially in the last six months old, if you show played a big role, but like I think there's a real if you're going to run in twenty eight, I think there's like a fully internet native weigher n these campaigns that might literally involve like zero television, vertigo and maybe you don't even need to raise that money. And maybe at to your point, if you have the right message, maybe you just go straight direct. Yeah, I might be .

completely different way to do this. I think that's the only way now. Now and I think if you do pay people, it's not going to have the same impact. I think these call her daddy shows and all these different shows that he went on. I mean, i'm sure they had in an impact, but I think that in the future, i'm sure that they're rumbling to try to create their own version of this show. This is one thing that keeps coming up like we need our own joe rogan, but they had me.

number one, they had you, never one, they had you. They had you in the driver of ways that number one. But they also have, you know A, B, C, nbc, abc. And right?

But that doesn't work anymore. That was that's like like you're using smoke signals. Everybody else has a cell phone.

IT doesn't work.

It's it's a bizarre time. It's really interesting though, as you said, like a great timeline. And I think it's a fascinating timely too because there's so much uncertainty and there's so much right. We're at the verge of A I OpenAI you all and I said now that he thinks twenty, twenty five will be the year that A I becomes sentient, whatever that means, artificial general intelligence will be, will emerge and who knows how that affects? I've said publicly, and i'm kind of half joking, that we need A I government. You know, IT sounds crazy to say, but instead of having this like alpha chimpanzee runs the tribe of humans, how about we have some like a really logical fact based, you know, program that makes IT like really reasonable and equable in a way that we can all agree to let's gover things in that matter.

right? So you can actually simulate this today because you you can go on this system schedule t or cloud these others um and you can ask know how we tandon issue acts.

how should this have have one, how energy .

do whatever, nuclear whatever. And what I ve find an idea that is, I discovered two things. Number one, of course, these things are, these things have the same problem, social media said, which is a tremendous ally, politically bias and right, that's on purpose, and they need to fix that.

And that's going to be a big topic in the next several years. But everything you learn as if you can get through the political, basically bias and censorship, if you can actually get to a discussion of the actual issue, you get very ophite ticad answers. Yes, right? Very logical, very strait ford. And I will explain every aspect of the issue to you and it'll you through all the process counts yeah. And you know.

I mean, IT might be the way to go, which is so horny for people because everyone's worried about the terminator taking over the world. And like, that's the first step as we let them go us. Well.

there's nothing stopping A A politician from using this. There's nothing stopping a policymaker from, you know, as too right. You know, if we start out using all, there's nothing to prevent you like I think military commanders in the feel they are going to have A A I L that are going to address the most strategy, tactics, yeah, how to win conflicts and the little start to work its way up and then they're be doing now we're planning and then if you're a general, if you you know start gender a corner or generally it's gonna mean you perform Better. yeah. So maybe there's like a sort of man machine, a sep atic relationship and you could imagine that happening more in the in the policy process.

in the political process. And there's also A I controlled LED jets, which are far superior. They did, mike Baker was telling us about that. They did the simulated dog fights and the AI controlled jets one one hundred percent of the time over humans.

And there is a bit of reasons for that. A part of IT is just simply the speed of a processing and so forth. But another big thing as if you don't have a human in the plane, don't have the spam, and the can have human body in the plane, you don't have to keep you being a life, which means you can be a lot faster .

and you can .

move a .

lot more quickly yeah and then there's no option for someone .

to go crazy yes. So right yes .

exactly no there's no human element um you know which is a real element.

Yes no, I think we're going it's going to be common. I have like mock five jet drones within within a few years and be a fraction of the size of the current you man planes in which means you can have like a lot more of them. And so you kind of want to imagine you know a thousand of these things like coming over horizon right at you.

Um and IT really changes is actually, I think that be very interesting. IT really changes the fundamental equation of work in the following sense. Fundamentally, in the past, the people who won wars, the people who had the most man and the most material, you just need the most soldiers and you need to the most equipment. And in this drone world that we're talking about is going to be the people with the most money.

the best technology.

Yeah right. It's so for example, small states, you're small, advanced states like single will be able to punch out of their weight and then kind of large sort of economically backward states that Normally no lose. And so it's it's going to be a every celebration.

And then IT has the good news is you're not putting soldiers at risk, right? So the bad is arguably as itll be easier to get in the conflict because you have putting solved at risk. So there's going to have to be a retaliation ation of like when you actually like when attack.

I'm sure you're aware of all this U A P disclosure jazz that you see on television. The more I look into IT, the more I think at least a percentage of IT, a healthy percentage of IT is bullshit. And there's probably some government projects where they've developed some very sophisticated propulsion systems that they've apply to drones.

And that that's what these people are seeing. And this is one of the reasons why they continually have sightings over secured military spaces like out in the eastern sea board, like there's areas over Virginia, ia, where they continually see them and send ago. They see them off the coasts of CD ago where there's a place where you would test stuff like that.

Most of court, of course, we know that that was the case for a very long time for sure, from the fifties through the eighties because with the development of death that was was classified on the seventy one was brand one point? You yes, alien. You intentionally.

That's of course not a percent. yeah. And then and then and then by the way, we're not the only ones. And so know my speculation would be that a lot some of the military, based off the chinese doing something similar. Yes, and I glimpse into that with the balloon.

You got that. I'm but still the fact .

that the chinese are flying surveilLance balloons over american territory and they were able to slip through our really warning systems and just like later above military bases, take lots imagery and do whatever scans they do yeah and like literally nothing was happening and we didn't even know there were there are most of the time so know its like a tip IT feels like a tip of the ice crea kind of thing where if if .

they were doing that probably other things going on why ve read that someone had commented that similar things that happened during the trumpet administration but .

they didn't tell trump t because they didn't want them him to shoot them down interest .

interesting for the record i'm proceed them down yeah I think you probably shoot them down and take IT pictures and said that that there's not even people of there for can show them down yeah that was the problem no um do you think there are any of those .

that are not of this world there? Have you ever like.

Ponder IT late at night. Sit down on your porch.

staring up with the sky. Know races? No race, no one is. Is there are not even, even if, if IT is, you did IT recently get here. Have they ve been here for a long time? Know they arrive five thousand years .

and things are demons and Angels.

Know, I mean, demons and Angels, our demos and Angels real. It's like, you know, literally, you know, probably not. But like, certainly y're metaphorically real. And other shades agreed between literal.

metaphorical, what? The actions are certainly demonic and Angela, right? Actions of human beings, things have happened in the world, are uplifting or horrific.

People doing even of things are possessed. I think they're possess by something like something is going on, right? And like you, what's the dividing line between, and an actually supernatural force and some sort of psychological social gal thing that's so overall, ming, that IT just takes control of people and dress and crazy like might all yeah.

it's fascine because like when you think about from theological turn go, we think from a religious perspective, you know, people would apply, what would a demand do? What would Angels do? What is, what is a, what is the will of god, and what is like, the evils of the worst aspects of humanity?

You know, you could apply them to so many things in the world, but we're very reluctant to say that something is demonic, like, even though it's clearly demon ic. Like clearly in action like this is what a demand would do. A demand would possessed people to gunn down. Children use drones to shoot down a wedding party. A demand would .

do that exactly. So a friend of man is a religious scholar, teachers of a religious history scholar. And he says that medieval people would have had a, medieval people were psychologically Better prepared for the area ahead of us with A I and robots and s everywhere than we are, because medieval people took IT for granted that they lived in a world with higher powers, higher spirits, Angels, demons, all kinds of supernal entities, and that he was just assumed to be true. And in the world we're heading into here that were argue at, know there are going to be these no new forces, these new energy running around doing things um and you know we're going to just we're gonna GLE we're gonna are going to ataturk fes we going to conclude like as the end of the world yeah the devils would have said was just another spirit like you know who's just another kind of unity it's Better is Better than humans of some things with so originals and so we're gonna to like change your mental well. Almost going to have to become a little bit more medieval, are going to have to open up our minds to the kinds of entities that we're dealing with, wow, you which which also could help us actually deal with people like maybe, maybe, maybe there is an explanatory the way to think about human behavior here that seems .

less rational, but might actually be more rational. Well, you express yourself a very brilliantly and describing the current state of woe ology as a religion, and that the way describe IT was brilliant because you were saying that that has all the elements x communication IT hearts to a very strict doctorin, all these different aspects of IT saying things that you, everyone knows to be a logical and nonsensical, but you must repeat IT. You know, these things are indicative of people that are in cults, or people that are a part of, like a very like a serious fundamental religion.

Tell me, of course, the big difference between work traditional religions of redemption .

give which is a very evil religion.

You do not want that it's .

ill conceived right because it's like immature ima religion solution to be because .

I can permanent destroy people yeah um we'll also understand something that the greeks understood, which is the being astro zed and being put to death at the same thing. And so when the greeks sent somebody likes science tees to death, they gave them the option of just leaving. But the problem really, yes, that is going to just walk .

out and left kidding.

The reason that was considered equivalent sentences is because at that time, if you are not a citizen of a particular city, you will get killed in the next city you be identified as the enemy presentations and killed them and there was no way to survive without being part of your community um and and what the walks figured out as you can do the same thing if you're able to, like you nail somebody charges of having done something unhorse ble, you make some toxic and all the sun that you know, they can help.

Sure, you know, people, you know, they lose friends, they lose friends. They can't get work. You know, before you know like there you know living severely diminish, damage lives. Some people then going to kill themselves.

I don't know if you have been paying attention in all the blue sky, but I have multiple friends that have a council on blue sky that are very sophisticated tools and are pushing like the work agenda to a satirical point, like to like parity, but like on the edge where you're not quite sure you'll say enough real things that makes sense and talk about their own anxieties and personal issues with self and then say fucking ridiculous at and it's fascinating.

A Better IT works. IT does work. That's what so terrifying, like all the outcast of twitter, all the people that were like, I can take this, a few of them come back, which is wonderful.

I love when they come back. I'm gone. I'm gonna to blue guy fucking people like a bunch of them went the threads for a while. Steven king, he went, the threads came right back. They all come right back.

They can't the marketplace of ideas like, okay, you could go to like a fruit stand in the middle of fuck and desert and that's a marketplace. Or you go to the farmers market where everybody y's there a great going to go. You going to go to the farmers market, tons of people, a lot fun, lot of activity that fruit stands fucking barnet desert.

There's no one there. There's very few choices. Yes.

not fun. When is we went out the back on twitter because it's good for them, because they want to propertius. And so they an audience, they win. And then we went because it's really, really find a duck on them.

but it's also weird for them to not want any push back at all. Isn't the whole thing supposed to be about the exchange of ideas? Like if you have a controversial idea and someone disagrees with IT, don't you want to hear that position? I know I do.

I want to hear IT. Even if I veramente ly disagree with that, I want to hear IT. I want to know where, how do how's your brain work? How are you coming to these conclusions? What makes you think this way? Who are you? What are you like? Want to go on the instagram? I want to look at pictures.

I will see what you up to, what do you do on, you know, what you do you free time, you know, what do you complain and about you? Yes, I want. It's like is a fascinating education on human psychology.

And to watch people express themselves publicly and then also be attacked publicly by strangers, which never happens in the real world, is like at scale the way that happens on social media. And I think it's so a the amazing time for people to examine ideas. If you can handle IT.

No, my favorite m as marketplace of idea.

Yeah.

you can have a marketplace of ideas. It's just gonna. One idea is a blue sky is a marketplace of ideas.

sure. yeah. Is the markets of ideas that that final x makes .

a lot of difference. Yeah right. But the thing about acis IT really is diverse. There's I follow tons of like cookie left this progressive nut bags that like have bizarre takes on everything.

And there were hundred percent convinced that commoner haris going to keep all the swing states, including iowa, they were all in. I was like, this is wild. no.

Like, is that going to happen? They write like, this is great. But it's they were one hundred percent convinced. And it's it's fascine to see all these different kinds of people, to see the charlie kirk and you know though the full on left wing cooks and see them all together, right? So what you need that?

yeah. So one of the ways I think to think about this is all new information is herdal by definition, right? So so anytime anybody has a new idea, it's a threat of the existing power structure.

So all new ideas started to serious ies. So if you don't have an environment that can tolerate heracles, you're not any ideas and you're going to end up with complete technical if if stagnation, you're going neistat ate into into decline. Yeah right.

And and I think this is the abortion nature. This is the time I spay. I think the last decade has just spent like a really weird ever, and time where things have not been working like they should.

In twenty fifteen, twitter called itself the free speech of the free speech party, right and land. Elan has not like j. Elan has restored right. He brought, he brought IT back to something that everybody thought was completely Normal ten years ago. yeah.

And I think I hope this last ten years increasingly is just going to feel like a bad dream, like I can't believe we tolerate at the level of repression, right? And anger. And you know, emotional economists and cancellation .

campaign motion content .

is a great term. Yes, has been a lot. That's really emotional income diary and .

emotions just spring rage in all directions.

And so you know, i'm very at moment at least very optimistic that there is a cultural change happening here that's even more profound.

I have a lot of respect and also sympathy for jack dorsey. I'd like him a lot as a human being. I think he's a brilliant guy, and I think he had very good intentions, but he was a part of a very large CoOperation.

And he had an idea for a wild west twitter. He wanted to have two versions of twitter. He wanted to have the twitter that was prey on where there's moderation and you you know, you can't dead name's someone and all that jazz.

And then he wanted to have an additional twitter that was essentially what x is now. And he just didn't have the ability to push that through with the board and executives and all the people that you we're fully on board with woke ideology here. So the experience .

that people like jack have had unting these companies in the last decade has been and I don't mean to like let them off look for their decisions, but just the the lived experience, as they say of these people I been like, is just daily pounding just every single day, is like media strikes coming down from the sky, exploding around you, getting attack from every conceivable direction, being called just incredible, horrible things being attack. From many different .

directions he's .

only left blue sky yeah so so early jack is jack then created blue, blue sky, which is kind of exactly the opposite of anyway where he thought, you know, by the way, you know the new name for the courses, a blue cry, yeah, exactly yeah. But he's also got, you know, look to his credit, he's still trying and so he's got noster, you know, which is another N O S T R O K. It's kind of youth is actually his third .

is going to keep swing.

Look for credit, for credit. He's going to swinging, by the way, for credit. He's supported up a little bit, but he's been very supportive and was very supportive.

Well, I also found a fascine that when there was any sort of a right wing branch of that stuff like gab or any of these, they would immediately be inflated by bots as well, like my friends that troll on blue sky. But these are not seas like, these are nazi bots. These are people that would just spew horrible hate.

And then gab would be labelled of, this is where the nazis go, this is a right wing psychopath, social media APP. yes. And I think Frankly.

I think you get the same thing. If you start out if I think if you started out of political other side, I think that's what you end up. And so I just like that, that doesn't seem to be an effective up to market. Um IT seems like you have to start from the beginning as a general purpose service, but you d need to have some sense of the actual guard rails you gona have around. And by the way, every social media service, internet service that ever works, there's always some content first and restrictions because you can have help porn, you can have a try the violence, you can have terrorist recruitment and even the first amendment.

There's like a dozen carvels the supreme court has ruled on over time that there are things like that that you can just like say, right, I can't say let's go to and you know right let's go to tech washington like it's just it's literally not a lot. So there is always some controls, but you need to have like a spine of steel if you're going to hold back the the censorship pressure and and you know there is basically subject um company doing very well, smaller love, smaller than twitter, but doing extremely well. fantastic.

And they have done a great job. I think i'm holding the line on yes. And then obviously.

and it's an amazing resource. There's so many brilliant people on substances love sub stack. I get at large centage of my news from substance. It's really good and it's so valuable. And it's such a great place for people who are independent journalists and physicians and scientists to publish their ideas and actually get paid for IT the people who subscribe for to IT. I think it's fantastic.

And and there's lots of people on the fire left on the far right. Yeah so you actually have the full sprit. Like when a life person gets upset, somebody working the new times mad because I not for left enough that I and such tech welcomes the man. Yes, which which is why they don't devolve and do a gap or something like that because IT really is apply.

IT really is applied for, really does work. But it's also very difficult to several that same way because that is essays, right? You you're reading people's essays and papers on things and like these are long form things that are very well in a lot of cases, very well researched. And it's not the kind of thing you just shit post on. You know, there are comments, but it's just like they don't hold the weight that the actual article holds, right?

So my partners, my partners at work, uh, they have observed that I tend to be able to inflame situations from time to time, but I contend to be provocative, get people really upset. And so the rule they have asked me to comply with is i'm allowed to write essays for examples of, and I am allowed to go on long from podcast, but i'm not allowed to post really right. Exactly what is the rule is the rule. Now, by the way, I struggle, I strugling against the rule.

is because I, I can help myself from rules.

because otherwise I am playing people too much. I drive people to crazy. Do purpose sometimes, sometimes you have to, sometimes it's intentional. Did you will hear about when when the entire content, when the entire country of indeed was, oh, I spent one night with the entire country media, basically, we wanted to kill me.

I was, I was incredible.

Oh my, I I was in a twitter debate with somebody back when I was just posting early on twitter economic and I I made IT I comment in in in a long thread about colonels m IT. Turns out the indians are still extremely sensitive about the topic of a colony ism um and I did not understand um the mindset and the uh his oral orientation and I tripped the line and I state up all night and I went hyper viral in every time zone in india every hour there would be like an entirely new activation and and I was like I was like front page headline news the top of the hour TV news like all the way across india yes IT was like I do not recommend this is an experience by the way I learned how many incredible indian american friends I have um because they are really do my my side know said he's much not literally calling for the recognizable of the like.

Probably the language vary as well.

Language and then like historical context, americans have a different we americans experience history differently than almost everybody else. History for us is just like stuff that happened the past that doesn't matter anymore. But a lot of all the people are on the world experience.

History is something that really still matter, like really matters to their life today. They, they, they live in history more than we live. A deeper understanding of kind of how they ve got to where they were in the things that happened to their parents and grandparents and and ancestors. And so Better, worse is just a different way of experiencing reality. Yes, anyway, I recommend learning that lesson, not by enraging a billion people.

I experience, ed, a small version of that recently because I said we shouldn't be using long range missiles on russia o and the ukrainians, like, and ukrainian bots, a bunch people came after me because I saying, like, the bite administration shows, like, fuck these people. And then I think some people misconstrued that as fuck the ukrainian people, which I absolutely was not saying, that I was saying, fuck whoever in the last days of the presidencies decide to escalate this work, because IT appears that that's what they've done, appears that they are leaving trump of giant mass, at the very least. right?

So good news is I am allowed to go podcast, I am on the thing is yourself bring up because it's your subject thing because the best market you need to explain yourself in long form yeah you can't just say a thing exactly your example you do can't thing and have people extra plate from the extra plate is not therefore ault because you have ya falt because you have to explain the right. And so if you write something long form or if you go talk for three hours, at least you will, the context will be there. And then if they want to get mad of you, that's fine, but you can point everybody to the transcriptions clear that that's not what you meant.

Do you also think while you're writing how things could be misconstrued? So let me like do a really good job of being very clear about this person. Yeah, you kind of have to yeah yeah ah yeah like Jimmy core city on the other day.

And he is expert in, uh, ancient history and ancient civilizations and we are is faster and subjects and one of them that came up with the nations and their fascination with the equal t and so we had to like, clearly say, listen, fuck hitler. OK, can I be really clear? Fuck hitler? Er, fuck denotes okay.

I have not in any way. Okay, now that we're clear, let's talk about where the swalec a came from. Fucilla, er, I do I say fuck iller let me say that you get fuck killer.

But the swatter goes, his ancient symbol is like talking about like why did the natives have this fascination with a cult with ancient civilizations? And so we got into IT, but he was like one of those things where it's like we're hitting the third rail. Get your other boots on. Save everybody here yeah i've got a friend .

and entertainment business who is quite left wing but really likes world world to documentation. And so he'll be like I so this great documentation last night about hitter and i'm like a bet you did.

You can't even have a copy of mine camp in your house oh.

a student is actually one of the stanford crazy story is a student that stanford was reported to the disciplinary board, the civil whatever disciple pliny board, for reading a copy in the, oh my god, that's so crazy which is a book that, you know, sign for you buy right now. Amazon, eighty years. Yes, to college kids like, understands these people were.

And like, how do not do that again? Yeah, that kid was like, nei, grow up on chargers. Nearly expelled. So like, yes, that's yes, this is the world that I I hope that were leaving.

Well, it's just an awful way to look at things. It's it's so awful to think that if you read about someone horrible, you support them. It's just so crazy like, well, how we're gonna study .

history and how are you and how we're going to prevent happening again.

especially something like the not how how we going to learn like what happened that clearly one thousand nine and twenty years germany was very different. In one thousand nine and forty five germany, what the fuck happened to twenty five years? So what we're essentially talking about is the year one thousand ninety nine amErica versus twenty twenty four america.

Imagine a shift of that magnitude. So crazy. There's a hola cost in twenty and twenty four.

And in nineteen ninety nine, everybody is just hanging out. But you should probably study that. You should always not relevant someone for reading a book on this.

exactly. Look, the german people went along with that, right? And so yeah, know, how did that have bad? And how many do was active agreement? Was a agreement, was there what .

are the steps where things go horribly wrong? And how could we recognize those? Because those steps have taken place multiple times in history, recorded history, we would know about them. So like, if we see them happening today, maybe we should stop IT nipped at the bud. What Better way than to read about when IT .

already happened? What my observations, people talking about. So we know conclusively the prayer areas. I'll had horrible moral problems, disasters, you know, catastrophe, wars and all kinds they made.

Kids are horrible mistakes, but we are completely certain that in our time we figured at all out, right? We are one hundred percent convinced that we have an all died in. And the one thing I know for sure is people fifty years and are going look back and I going to say, oh my god, those people are awful. One hundred per just. But like in way.

right? In what way are we horrible? I mean, certainly a lot of the way we treat each other, others horrible, especially with the amount of information that we have available.

But IT is fascinating also that if you know, I I visited a aten last year, last year, and I got to tour the ruins, and i'm like, wonder when IT all went out, like when did they when did they know this had fAllen apart? Like when was the in the peak of everything? They probably thought, hey, we have the most amazing sophistic ted civilization that's available on earth, and we will maintain this.

This is, we will be the center of intellectual discourse and the home of democracy. This is us. And then, now, now there's like shady apartment buildings next to the parthenon, like what happened, something hard bly happened.

And we don't want to think that could ever happen to us today. We want to think we are american mother fucker. We're going to keep this pitch Brown forever.

Land scanned freebase, let's go. Second amend, come on. And we're going to, we think that this is this is the future. We amErica is the shining star of the world and we're going na Carry this on.

But probably not like historically, I mean that what is the longest running dominant civilization ever, the romans, existed for what, a couple thousand years? Like how long did the greeks run? How long did the egypt? Egyptians might be the longest special of you, like taking into account the possibility of alternative history time lines where, you know, like egyptian higher grass, they have kings that go back thirty thousand years.

Here IT is egypt. And epidemic there IT is one estimate measuring the time of the first fares use of higher gliff writing to the native religious, replaced by Christianity. Ancient egypt, civil ation .

endure for about three thousand five hundred years. I bet that was more other is didn't really change, right? Change is we all change of the kind that we understand, where things actually change.

The right of changes really kicked off with the greeks. And so that was sort of the default status, great civilization for a long time. The the greeks kicked off change as we understand.

And then the romans, do you know about the fish plants, the fish plants, the fish for six of fish ponds? no. So roman empire, no.

And for in of roman republican empire is sort of helped what you consider this dynamic face, a sort of vital face, ran for a few few hundred years, maybe total something like that and um uh towards to the end as IT was sort of falling or stagnating and increasingly starting in the fall apart brand my says when the rose is got dangerous ous and nobody could quite explain why um right um which sounds familiar by the way this was on one of the great one of the great room states he of these letters that we have in the letters he sends his letters, all of his arrest rates friends and the theme in the letters is basically all of the actual, competent, capable citizens of rome are at out in the countryside, at their village, perfecting their fish ponds, right? They pull in into themselves. They built their themselves, their own protected environments, right, where they control everything.

And they're completely focused on ornamentation. They completely focused on their clothes and and on their own lifestyles. And I don't know the conditions have fish plans, but if they did, they would be spectacular, but no doubt they would be the most amazing fish place we have ever seen um and so you keep rAiling is like stop with the fish points, like, stop working the fit.

Like get back out here, rejoin the senate. Like, get back and all of the system. Let's keep this thing from caving in yeah and I think I know the significance. I think no mp actually talked about this in the camiguin his version of this talk on the campaign.

Things do that exactly .

right and is, you know, sound of his family loves you like, you know, grandkids and like the whole thing and he's like, look, i'm not doing IT because, like, I need to do this. It's interesting. He doesn't referencing this r, he says, spirit sister, I talked about where, you know, when times get tough, do the people who are in a position to actually make positive change actually step up? Not right. And I think we have fed a pretty long structure where that hasn't in the case. And I think maybe with trump, and and I think also with islam, I think because he was other guy, right for sure.

What's a coalition tion? right? Is not a percent and Young and handsome to do.

everyone. Dad, he's decided to go all in. And then, of course, you have tosi gathered and know you have jd vans.

So what I think is brilliant. You have all these brilliant people that are together, which is very hopeful. This is what we didn't see out of the biden Harris campaign.

You know what we saw from Harris and walls. You have walls, the guy who's IT seems like he's a compulsive liar. At the very least, he's lied multiple times about fairly insignificant things, like whether nor he was a head coach or an assistant coach.

And the lives have always elevated him socially. All the was about his military service, or at least implying that he serves in a different prospect, in a different aspect. And then there was clean square.

There's everything enhances his virtue. This is not what anybody wants. You want the opposite.

You know, you want a guy like jd vans who served in the marines and, you know, went to yale, comes from a single mother with diction problems, rose from hard work and dedication to become who is now like. That's the kind of guide that I like. Yes, that's what we all would like. Okay, that looks like a leader to me.

Yeah, well, the romans have this concept that take series. They go viral, right? And like, did you did you there's a whole way ranking, by the way, the roman t version. And if you read them today, you just like a bus stop trying because you're just like, oh my god, I can. What we're missing, people with virtually people virtues, not just that they think they're good people, are that they deliberate.

there are good people. They actually act on, actually step up. Well, this is what's missing from today's secular society, right? Like we don't have like a doctrine that in encourages that sort of thinking and behavior in rewards to publicly which religion does, you know, IT true Christianity. Ty, you know, not several fucking giant arena Christianne where the guys flying private jets and has rules, roses and shit, but actually like real Christian people .

right on the room. The room has had gods, which has had gods. yeah.

And so and so they, like IT was actually wrapped, your point, I was, I can, coded into the religion. IT was wrapped up in the religion. They knew exactly what was expected of them. They knew exactly what their ancestors expected of them. They know exactly what their god's expected of them.

I recently read meditations again a couple of months ago. I would listen to a nesan a but it's brilliant. And it's amazing that this guy, mark alias, was thinking like this so many years ago. And it's so, it's so valid today. And IT applies so well to modern life.

So, so strange, you know how brilliant this person was while he was running this incredible empire that he could write about human psychology and the value of forgiveness and you being truth to yourself and constantly being truthful everywhere and everything you do, and all these virtues and all these, the stoicism that that he supposed it's. It's so valuable today. It's really remarkable that this person who is a leader was a two thousand years ago, that his words still ring true today.

Yes, you probably know he didn't write .

IT for public consumption, right? Yeah, more azba, which is why it's so good. Probably because you're, I wrote for sub stack would like wall people going to hate on this.

Let me.

yeah you let me, let me, let me proactively attacked the people to comments or to do them.

But he he's he's like turing himself like he's telling himself how I act like, you know, he's very this very deli, very deep, important. My favorite, my favorite part of the meditations, the section where something like you're going to wake up this morning and everybody y's going to hit you, and everybody y's gna lie to you, and everybody y's going to make them one decisions and you're going to be incredibly frustrated and you're not going to get credit for anything and you have to get up anyway. Yeah like that's all yes, yes, yes, that's all true and you still have to get up to your job.

And of course, he saying that to himself as the leader .

rome to himself exactly and and what's in there is just like, wow, his life was not you know he's just like, again, it's it's actually you don't like to see you some like you're gna get pounded. Like if you're in these positions, you're going to get pounded every day. If you're Operating out of of a out of a true sense of virtue, if you're putting out of a true sense of like exercising responsibility lies, you get up and do anyway.

It's amazing how much of resonate IT really is. What's amazing how much so many ancient writings resonate. There's so much valuable information, just like in sun is the art of war, or in look of five rings.

There's so many ancient books that you read and go first. First of all, I love reading them because I tried to imagine what you know, what is this life like in like, if you want, take like me a multimedia si fourteen hundred. When did you live a multimedia like fourteen, two, one, eight or something lic.

What's that like? Like what? What is your life like? What is? What is the, what is the view of the world when you you don't really have detailed maps or you don't have any photographs, you don't have any idea what the fuck is going on in europe less you go there like what what is your version of the world like and then to see someone's words written down and you read them and try to just imagine yourself in their perspective, in their mindset.

Yeah that's right. Yeah I look like I think if you're somebody like that or somebody like markets real as you just have this incredible sense of responsibility, yeah like the one thing you do have is a sense of purpose like you know exactly what you're here. You know exactly what your role is.

You know exactly how you're supposed to behave. You know exactly how you're supposed to basically gay glory, how you're supposed to honor ancestors like it's is just all you know exactly where you are in the community, right? right?

You have this like incredible sense of groundless and redness. And of course, there's huge to downsize of that, which is that really cuts off your ability you know run often know american. I there's like a lot of things you can do, right? But like, yeah you know you know what you're supposed to do and either do IT or you don't do IT. And these days to have people like that, we need people who choose to be that way, right? Which is, which is, which is arguably harder, right, given all the choices that they actually choose to live that way.

not only that, giving all the distractions that people face every day that keeps them from sitting down writing a journal like that. You know, back then, there's not a lot of different things to entertain you with.

great. Yes, you maybe a little bit more serious because my my favorite favorite meditations much really is something like, be the rocks on the shore at which which the waves beat, right? Like, yes.

Like yes. Your job is to stand there, like the rocks to do, and just the surf, just like keeps come in and keeps come in and keeps come. And your job is just like, stand there and take IT.

Imagine what I was like. I addressing the people back then, to just yelling out to these groups, are speaking in front of all the leaders and all everyone is plant to kill you .

also a lot about going, yeah.

everyone's we have many times they tried to kill a hlt like everybody he's trying to kill if if you're running things. Yes, all your generals are probably secretly wanted to become the king.

All these .

surfers are waiting in .

the way today. Most of the killing for no every now and then yes.

Ternate, yes, yes, yes. Um how .

fearful were .

you leading up to the election that IT wouldn't go into the new timeline?

IT was so weird because all the experts said he was fifty, fifty razor, a sharp. It's this tiny little you know think a few thousand thousand and eight counties um yes and you know um number one that IT wasn't.

Which means we can take all those experts and just dismiss them forever going forward because they clearly, clearly, clearly have no clue there's another set of people do not listen to um but I had this really interesting conversation that keep naked at me with A A A senior democrat who's on his way out of of of a politics um and he he said the summer I said how certain is right what's your view in this just going to win with one hundred percent certain ty really um this democrats um and from a sort of purple state um right so you know that new york, california but like a state with sort of maybe that was on a brought across section of people and this person basically said, yeah look is that look all you have to do is fly anywhere in the country into any purple and place and go into a second, third year, you know the city and take a uber for thirty minutes the land of the airport take a uber drive ground for thirty minutes come back and just ask the driver like ho's IT going and who are they going far and basic a hundred percent of the time and the answers are going to be trump uh because people are just people were just like completely fed up. They were just completely fed up. And then there was, you know, common enthusiasm, which this person said that the commons thusia m is like highly focused in new york and california, which don't matter from an electoral standpoint, right?

So then I going to decide anything.

but that is huge when IT comes to media. Oh, sure, of course, but that's entrant the bubbles. People in these media bubbles are not breaking out like this, like they're getting deeper into the start of collective psychosis that they indulge in.

In part of IT was getting excited about a canada for which there was very little popular support. For once you've got outside of these, you know heavy, light blue states, yes, in a lot of ways is the most the obvious explanation. The world is just people just fundamentally do not like the direction the country is going. And they were just fed .

up with there's also this very bizarre arrogance of people that were certain that come house is going to win. I'm sure you're seen the viral video of this lady who's a political analyst who talks about going to the liquor store and buying a bottle of champagne. I don't want to show the poor probably living in how right now.

But blue y, yeah, she's probably blue guy.

SHE might be on x well, he was on X I think he had deleted a profile. But the poor lady, I mean, SHE, but SHE was being very arrogant and SHE laughed and mocked. This man said, you do realize you waste to .

your vote that's that's .

which makes her hard to feel sorry for that. It's like you are ready to mock this man. But in her eyes, IT was all about reproductive freedom.

And he thought that that was under attack under the trump administration, and that women, we're going to stand up and they are going to stop that. Because in her echo chAmber, that was the case. Everybody was univerSally, they all agreed.

We're univerSally on board with this idea that trump is eve, we ve got to get rid of them and women are gona vote. This going to be found. But like who you're hanging out with, lady, you know, you could hang out with a bunch of people to think baseball awesome. And then, you know, you run someone from another country like what the fuck is baseball like to realize there's a lot of people out there and people .

really don't like being talked down to.

They really don't and they don't like you mocking the fact that first of all, nobody wasted their vote. Like that's not how that goes. Like you don't waste your vote if you vote different in the other side ones, it's not how the other side one, that's just how is like wasting the vote is a crazy way to look at IT.

Like because I think also people look at things like tribal games, you know like you know texas is a huge football date and people love football and it's always we this we that when U T play south, Carol, we this we that it's like people love to be a part of a team that's winning and they apply that, especially if there not in the sports to other things. I think it's just a war mentality. It's a tribal war mentality that's been source in the human mind and applied to other things.

I could be like microsoft versus apple. You know, I could be android versus apple IOS. It's weird how people get so tribal and then connect their own personal identity to other people agreeing with these ideas that they they believe yeah I I for two thousand one .

is um the democrat for a long time for the big party. So the democrats for the coalition of people who have very different points of view on things and course you know famously it's all the different identity groups and it's all the different economic union all these things republicans were like the party of like rigidity, right um and just for whatever set of a lot of the workshop had a lot to do with that is a flight to where at least today trumps republican party, the big time party yes.

To your point of having all these new people in many of the mer former democrats, the democrats decided to try to isolate out anybody right who disagrees on any any issue and demand right locked up conformity through the the cancellation process. And so that that's a very interesting in version that happened kind of without anybody saying anything about IT, but I did happen. And then I think the other the other version was the economic conversion, which is, remember, the criticism of the republican party for a long time was that was the party of trickle down economics.

Yeah, the idea was, rich people are going to get all the money. Great adminstration. And then basically, if our people get any money to people ro, I think that inverted to where the democrats, especially last four years, became the trickle down party, which was we're going attacks and we're going to collect money.

can give IT to the right, but he didn't. Under the guys of tax, the rich, they they did IT with this robot hood mentality, at least they expressed, of course.

that's how IT starts. But you end up a thirty five trillion dollar federal up debt, you end up with this giant annual deficit, and then you end up with all this money being handed out, right? Out in all these grants and all these do the things like just this is like shower of money come from the government. But of course, if the government giving you money IT also means the government can take money away, right? If you're making somebody dependent on you because you have in the money, then you're in you have tremendous sic power because you can make a horrible by by point the money away.

right? Yes you also control the ideology .

that present yeah on its actually form no it's on it's on the spectrum to a form of domination. This should make us very uncomfortable. Um and so you maybe that will be fine if the deficit in the control and inflation to get out of control. But I did. Um and then at that point, it's like, okay like this this new kind of sort of tax and spend and trickled on economics is clearly not sustainable, not going to work.

So the way the trumpet administration is going to approach the economy, they want less regulation. They want tariff and less regulation. And they want more, more reliance on us energy.

They want to drill more more natural gas, more fracking, more drilling for oil and then um allow companies to to work without regulations inhibiting their performance. This will boost the economy. You'll have more productivity. You have more american manufacturing. You have more things happening.

Yeah so the two headline things you hear from them whenever they talk about the deadline, things are number one, growth. You just need faster growth. Look, by the way, is the only way to resolve the long term fiscal situation and you see the only way to resolve the debt.

There's only two ways to do IT. You can inflate your way out of IT and end up in thirty germany without inflation like that. That's one track you can get on, which is a very bad track.

And you don't want to go there or you can grow faster because if you grow faster than your economy can catch up to the that you can pay out the dead as as you grow. And so they want to go for higher to growth. You know, the only thing is they want amErica to win this.

My partner went on arables spend time I trump this summer and that was like his, like adam think he kept going back, which is like, look, amErica has to win. Specially what that means, as amErica has to win in business and in technology and in industry generally globally, like our company should be the one that win these broad. We should win global markets like our company should be, should beautiful.

How can anybody be against that?

I happen to think that makes less sense. Yes.

I know. I mean, I obviously your wealthy man and I am as well, but it's like, how could you not want that? Yes, by the way.

if you are in favor of A A, uh, high level of social support, if you want there to be lots of offer programs and food system programs, these I I would are you also want that because it's the growth that will pay for social programs, right? Like that's how you square the circle.

That's how you actually have you are taking needed to which is like, first, your economy just generates a fount of money through through growth and economic economic success. And then you can pay and you can pay for whatever programme you personally like. I am totally fine, like set up all the programs you want, all the social spending on, always as you want. And if as long as it's easy to pay for k because you're going so fast than everybody wins.

yeah I buy me i've always said if i'd knew that I paid more taxes as people in the world in this country would live Better, I would do IT right. Of course. Just don't believe that they're good ending IT.

That's the thing, right? It's like if if you're putting in this, if you're generate a thirty five trillion of that and these are the results, yeah no, like this. This is not the deal.

And this is my, my, my friend that I talked about really, that was the point he made. Just like the deal has been broken like this. This is not the deal anybody signed up for. This is not how it's supposed to work. Everybody knows that.

And when you are talking about giving people social programs and giving them benefits, and then you can take that away at any moment, this was one of the big fears that people had about letting illegal immigrants that to the country and moving them to swing states, which clearly happened, and also giving them a bunch of benefits, which clearly money, food stamps, housing, all that happened, stuff that wasn't available to veterans, stuff that wasn't available to homeless people, wasn't available to the very poor of this country.

All certain people came here illegally, got those things. And the thought was, if you gave these people these things and you gave them a way Better life, look, if I was living in a third world country with a family, and I knew that I could come to amErica and I could get a job and actual job and make money, and my families going to definitely eat, i'll vote for whoever the fuck you want me to vote for. I don't care.

My life is infinitely Better than I was in this totalitarian shadow that I was in til I walked here. I'll do whatever you want, like, I just want my family to survive. And I think everything is going to is so much Better than where I was.

If I, in some war torn part of the world is so much Better here, I don't care if the democrats, when or the republicans, i'm in america, and if the republicans didn't give me any money and they want to get me out, they wanted deport me. But this nice lady SHE gave me an E, B. T card. And i'm stayed the rose about hotel of new york city, and I get a flight somewhere else, so I want to go there. Oh, this is wonderful.

So that's how IT starts. And there is a lot of that going on. But I will say one of things is interesting, as IT doesn't cesspool ily stick that way. And the sort of evidence for that is the rapid at sort of dramatic ramp up and ani vote up for problem.

Well, as panic people generally are very hard workers.

So so this this guess the Christy. And so after the the night after the twenty sixteen election, like literally everybody I know is just like like we all just like, completely freaked out. Everybody was freak out. Yes, I was completely freaked out here.

Everybody was that like, I didn't expect him to when the ominous, I didn't expect to the race like and know the media is unlike full historical blast and at the end of the world and he's you know, he's a russians. Bio is crazy stuff that we know not not to be tourist just is just like fall on. So a group of us, a group of us want out to dinner at a restaurant panel also, and you know, and the atmosphere was like a funeral. I mean, like everybody, the restaurant was just like to spend d IT like like the rest.

And so we're sitting their eating and like the food doesn't take good, just get the food you can the drinks like everybody depressed oh and you know I guess this thing of like, no, my god, I can't believe that truck this that so you see you ray know anti hypanis and all the stuff and IT IT was one of those moments for the the Young waiter who know he's Young man, what is where are moments where he broke into the conversations to the table? But I was in context that IT was like, oh, thank god because like, we're just depressing ourselves to death so like, thank god he's gonna something and he said, you know, I think you guys are looking all wrong. He is like, my father thinks trump's fantastic is my father came here in migrant, whatever thirty years ago, built a life here, became a citizen, bought into the system, pays taxes, like race to family moon.

as long with .

a maga had on this this guy, he thinks this guy is great. He thinks this guy is fantastic and he voted for him and he just, you know you for this before but then it's like the thing that this guy said, the thing my father thinks is terrible is if people are able to come here, they're able to cut in line. No, they didn't have to go through the process.

They didn't have to prove anything. They're not bought n into the system. They're they are able to jump in and they don't they're not buying into the system. And you know part of IT, maybe they're not being accepted, but also part of IT is they are not buying in. They are they are not a simulating.

They are not becoming part of the what makes amErica amErica um and you know in some cases and by the way, in some cases, you know the criminals are coming across and terrors are coming gangs yeah like my father's not favor any of that, right? My father wants to be part of of a great society of a great america, not some diffunce tional, basically just disaster zone. And I remember that the group of us, IT was my my first lover of, like, okay, I D to like, completely rethink my whole sense of, like, how the world works.

Because one conversation, yeah, yeah. IT was weird because IT was like, so so what happened to me is like, I so I group in a role was cosin, which is now like completely drunk country. And so from like zero to eighteen, like I completely understood the mentality.

And I was always like, explained my friends like, no, like this. This is like a different place and people think differently. And then somehow, between ages of like eighteen and forty or whatever, I just like, forgot.

And I I became a california came, I became a fully assemble to california. And I was just like, of course, the california are much more excited that came from. And so of course, course, of course, everyone californias figured out.

And of course california is going to leave, leave the country, of course, all this thinking, right? Trumps for me, trust trumps six, twenty sixteen was the wake up call like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, that's just like completely, that is such an the world view of how this country works, of how people think that IT doesn't explain what, because you have to explain what happened.

And then you have to like, if you have some sense to be able to predict what's next, which is what i'm supposed to be doing for a living. Investing is supposed to be it's like, okay, I got to rebuild my entire model of the world um for like how this all works and how this all system, how this country works. But IT was that conversation that the kick started IT for me.

So what was the process of altering your perspective or at least opening IT up?

Yes so for me I was primarily was reading and so I I started actually read my way back in history um and I I actually went all the way back. I read to read of like where the origins of like leftwing thought came from, and then communism and how to evolve in the liberal democracy. And then also writing thought and like, you know, everybodys calling everybody fastest now.

So like, what was fascist? Is that what this is? right? How how did how did the german do with that? know? So all all of those questions and then you know kind of converging on in eighty years, like how was that you know either stabilized or not stabilized. And so I did that, but the everything is I just started talking to a lot of people and I I just stopped assuming that because I read IT in the new year time and IT was true. And by the way, that course, what unfolded in the years know kind of sense, was I followed the whole rush gate thing like super closely, like I read everything and I read all the reports.

And what did you think initially.

did you? Because it's like this overwhelming consensus from the entire expert class. That, of course, is a recent by I said and said, I went to hillery's first post election law speech, which he gave stanford the very first one.

And I said, we know that people organza IT. So we SAT literally like fifteen feet hilter in her first appearance. And the whole thing is fraught with this, like incredible tension cause. And the russia day stuff is in for full bone fob, lone display.

And and I go there and i'm like, this is going to mean to me know in the audience of stanford audience and so it's all one hundred percent hello clinton supporters, right? And and i'm sitting there and I I my best behavior because I with my wife and I have to like not I have to not act out and hilter gets there and he says, trump is only president today because why are reputed hacked facebook and made in the president, right? And i'm sitting in the audience and i'm like on the facebook board and like that's not like that's not true. But I know for an absolute fact that that's not true, right? And so that got me thinking and then the russia stuff and and I was like the steal the stuff comes out.

What was the accusation? facebook? How did he think that russia hacked facebook and made trump the prisoner? Ah so it's this whole .

thing with it's just remember this thing, camera genetic so it's this whole thing that there was this basically there was this data, there was this theory, which by the way, is like completely and completely fake thing like this didn't so there was this was this data set on user behavior, that in theory, there's an academic, there's a theory that you could sort of compute him and behavior from this data then you could use to predict what people would do and how they would react to different messages.

And there was like this like magical breakthrough and basically thought control um and then there was this company called cambridge olitic a in the U. K. That figured out a way to do this. And then IT was this like new kind of literally like mine control like know that by far like the most powerful me weapon of all time for getting people to go the way, the way that you want.

And IT, was this data breach of face? The whole thing was weird, because facebook could have been criticized for a decade leading up to two thousand sixteen that IT kept off the data closed, right? So the criticism was facebook neverland in the data.

IT doesn't share the data, right? The criticism for years was facebook is the rochemont lo data. And the virtuous thing for you to do is actually free the data and let everybody else have access the data.

And in twenty sixteen, like flipped hundred and eighty degrees and IT was facebook cus the most evil company of all time? Because IT let came genoa to access the data. And then russia ran basically a psychological Operation.

The american is why facebook push back. They did they they do today in their way. But you know, they're going to run a business.

They're going to get to the next quarter. They're going to get the empty base and everybody go pothead. They're try not to get just completely destroyed by the politicians. They are getting right slammed every single day on every conceivable. If you can imagine, it's actually a very interesting thing.

You when you're in these companies like these, these big issues are big issues, but you're also literally trying to like make the quarter you right, you're trying to ship your products, you trying to your sales, you're trying to keep your employees from quitting, right? You have these act of responsibility lies. You have practical concern, responsibility, ie.

S and so sometimes these companies get kind of wedge because they can't do the things that they would do if they were just in damage control mode. And then, right, and then maybe the message does not get out. But so what was the bigger shift?

The waiter or a the hilary speech? Uh, I was the waiter. I mean.

that the waiter was a much bigger shift because I was listening to a norm, was listening to a person with their feet on the ground, actually explained in the the world worked where as a hiller IT was he was cope, right? IT was, he was delusion. IT was IT was amazing, by the way, he then spent the next year a half, when I, in a place where I don't know how to control myself, I bring a little no pad along because I can work out my demons like on actually, so that I don't say anything right.

like super bad. So I brought my .

little little pen, my little pen, little Fisher's space penner I put out, and I started making a list of all of the people and organizations that he blamed for her defeat that were not named hilly, clint. And I got twenty, my favorite, netflix, by the way. And SHE blame netflix. Well, did netflix s do netflix air antillean documentary.

In fact.

this is particularly funny because the CEO netlist is a famous democracy super democrat. Peter, well, not actually a dead, but also specifically read read, read hastings and his wife over enthusiastic left years um but I mean IT was just this literary of you know basic excuses and complaints, right with no sense of like responsibility, personal responsibility at all, just like a pure grievance and was he was negative lesson? Like, okay, like whatever that is, is not the path.

Did he blame?

Call me oh yeah, absolutely yeah. H yeah. He definitely hit ted.

That guy, yeah, no question. That was a wild one hundred percent. Yeah, exactly in, by the way, like that was super weird. yeah. I don't think he was completely wrong.

I don't understand that one. Honestly, if they didn't want trump to win, I don't get that one.

She's we know she's guilty, but we're not going to church, right? Is weird. It's crazy.

Is weird mess. It's almost as weird as the biden one. We don't think he's confidence to stand trial for the documents that he had that were classified exactly, but he can what have his finger on the button, if you talking.

Actually, we know he's guilty, but we never connect him because the jury would say that he's A C Y old man.

which is crazy because he's still running for president at the time, is running for election.

Well then rember everybody at the time that the media said the prosecutors lying that shop is attacked as attack.

My favorite, jose garborg, this is the best biden intellect, the best one ever, ever been to yes. And then me, while he had to go to more logo kiss, doing.

yes, actually, exactly, exactly. My favorite was the, remember the about about earlier this year was the invention of the term cheap fake.

cheap fake, cheap fake.

Because everybody's worried about the AI deep fake, which really that there was really nothing, nothing happened to that. And so the cheap fake we learned as a video that just simply shows you something, it's claim to be out of context, but IT actually turns out that is actually just telling the truth.

Didn't he started using that one cheap fake?

Yeah exactly. Because the theory was IT was going to be clip out of context yeah .

but IT turned out there were clipsed in context. Have you seen there is a gentlemen who made a video um here because I am it's pretty crazy of what A I is capable of now by um come on on my phone updated you sound of a bitch come on don't make me go to fuck and android because I will. Um this guy did this insane um video where is all completely ai and everything he did, uh including his voice, is here all senator jme.

It's one hundred percent AI generated and it's so hard to believe because it's so good and IT really puts you in this. When you talking about cheap the agitated gym, cheap fakes and deep fakes, let's put the headphone on a washes because it's so crazy. We're at that moment where you cannot tell, right? And let's look at this one because it's pretty extraordinary. This is the best version that i've seen so far. This is completely .

AI laps to speak, like means our company and will sound like me. Then I trained, uh hygd with a video of mine. I input the audio file to generate a video based on my text.

The video you are watching right now is the result one hundred percent generated in A I. What do you think of that? guys? I know this might sound, but this.

how crazy is that? Oh, that's your company. That's him. That's yeah. Ah.

that is.

That's the AI generation. yeah. Ah.

that's right. That's right. Two companies, one, one of the voices are and that's another great company called visuals. But yeah, no, that's right.

That's not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, this is part of the .

first internet, first internet election. Probably the first internet election will be the one that has this of thing.

Actually they get why done amazing job, really knocked at the park with a solid speech on the internet, just have a bunch of viral videos of her speaking so equant, that's the fear of the future, right?

yeah. And so like I think that that's going to be the going to be the kind of thing thing is going to happen in terms of like the third trick side, I think that will be part of IT.

right? There are something to just have the most brilliant writers formulate. Get A I to do.

Like you say, A I has all this relations to things that are super logical and what there's no like we're thinking in IT. So you know, cut all the fat out. So I think we have a theory .

and how to fix this. And the theory basically is we're going to have to switch our sense of what's real from basically just trying to I and figure whether it's real to only taking seriously the things that we know are real in the way that we would know things are real as will have reregister on a blockchain, right?

And so I think the way is going to work in the future is every politician will have an account on the ball on a, on a light change service like an a to equip service. And then every politician, whatever they say, anything public, whenever there they're bit know with the going to have people run them with cameras all the time, whenever they put out a statement um they're onna gypo graphically sign IT on the block chain so that I can be validated that IT is actually content from them. And then I think we're just going to have to reach and understand that we're just gonna to write off everything else that we see, which Frankly is a good idea anyway um because there are just as a lot of noise in the moment there.

So how would you integrate that with social media though? Because one one of the issues is these low information voters that are getting information, either from click bait headlines on these websites where they did to read the actual paragraph with my, which might be completely different than the headline itself, the headlines just a flaming and then viral videos like how would you so so .

the thing is so that's already happening, even pra, right? And so I say that's that's a pre existing problem. And so like we can.

And by the way, that's been happening for a long time. Newspapers have scandal sheet forever. If you go back hundreds of, if you go back hundreds of years for the first newspapers, they were winning all kinds of scrolls. The first newspaper was a scandal sheet of the vada, like five hundred. That was all these like terrible rumors about, like the pope and the bishops, all these the cards. That was the very first newspaper was in the vacation and the american all the american colonial newspapers were like that um in the the revolutionary era IT was all crazy rumors and in udo and people accusing each other of there was a famous election in eighteen hundred which was jefferson and verses atoms that we think of as these, like super outstanding, you know, Operate people and they're just like smiling fish crap out of each other in their respect of newspapers, right? Because they would actually own newspapers in those days and just got attack each other.

More things changed ben Franklin and ben Franklin ben Franklin and prince of newspapers before he became A A became when a government and he created fifteen different cycles um uh he created fifteen different and the names uh he was he was a suit uh non um and then he would basically have them argue with each other in his newspaper without telling people that IT was all him oh so he had all these different person alias. And so like we've been in a world of like information warfare for a very long time. We've been in a world of clay since alist.

You know makely news if if, if is if IT bleed IT leads yeah no sensationally stuff for a long time. We've been in the world of lip propaganda for a long time. So so that you're not going to that you're never going .

to make that funny, that we don't think of the past life time. And we.

the virtues we assume they had IT all figured out that very much is not true. That all kinds of crazy, crazy bananas, ff, my in the vet and more what I was, the the gulf of tonkin kicked off the sort of a big escalation if, like, we now know for a fact that I didn't happen right with all things just didn't happen.

And now there's a big debate about like we did, they know IT didn't happen or know they think IT, but like, so there's always been stuff like that history so that we can fix, and I will be a new way to do that kind of thing. But what we can do is we can reach people to say, okay, now you're going to have to like take seriously, this stuff is real. And if you want to actually know what's happening, this stuff is real and we can prove that is real.

And if it's not, it's entertainment and you can choose to believe that or not, right? But, but, but you shouldn't rely on IT. And look, it's actually perfect and it's onna take time. But there there is a way .

to addresses okay, so that would be the solution to deep fix the block change.

Yeah focus on the role .

stuff that's logical that actually does make sense. That actually kind of gives me hope. I do generally have hope.

Even though look at the pessimistic side of things, i'm generally optimistic because my real feeling about human beings is most people are good. I've genuinely believe there's far more good people in the world than bad people. There's for more people. They just want to live a good life and have a good time and enjoy themselves. Then there are people who are tired.

I'm super optimistic. I'm incredible optimistic. And I was optimistic already with flash as a pessimism. But like i'm really optimistic and especially now.

So I I think this is going to be we have the real we have the real potential here for golden age. We really do really do yeah the capabilities that we have and the people that we really look at. My day job, I meet Young, twenty two years old every day that are just like the of people in the world. I've I think they're getting Better, by the way, as time passes, by the time to twenty two, they just know a lot more there.

They have so much more access information.

then there's Better train, keep buying, ready to you fired up and they know each other able to connect online in their their audience communities and they know how to help each other. And so like, yeah the productive and inventive and creative know aspect, particularly of this country, is just like there's never been anything like in the world.

I think there's also the real potential for a shift in perspective, a positive patriotic tic shift in perspective that can happen in this country.

And if you think about what happened with the wall ideology, how IT swept so quickly over the country and change so many aspects of the way we deal with things socially, and so radical and so quickly in such a to change that people are suspected to change, is possible to to an act change and a positive change in a good direction, where people are optimistic about the future, which you are. And I am, I mean, I think that's probably contagious. I really do think .

that iro IT was even .

hair who said that thing about psychology today. IT was one of is a friend of mine who was a former special forces guy. He said that psychology is more kintail ous than the flu.

exactly. Yeah, yeah, think that's right. So one of the interesting things is going to happen right now. You know, we talked lot about transport, tory and republicans, but there is now a civil war is kicked off inside the democratic party, which is very interesting because because they lost so badly, right?

So the fact that they lost the White house and they lost the popular vote, and they lost the congress and they lost the senate and they lost the supreme court, right? Like this time is undeniable, that like the current path, they and is not working, like good is here, but like being an exclusive party and kicking people out for wrong thing. Like it's not they're .

not going to think they are not just kicking people out. There are borrowing people from making IT to the primaries. Yes, which is very undemocratic.

S yeah exactly. Starting with burning in sixteen and then .

right continuing so down the right book document.

And so so like I would say, the smart democrats know this is not but is not a viable path. You can't have a political party that doesn't win IT doesn't make not is not useful. Um and so there's going to have there's a civil war is under way inside, the party is kicking off right now um where they're to have to retell what they want their future to be and it's going to be a big decision.

And the same thing happened, by the way, um when reagan be Carter really badly in in and then had a landslide eighty four and then took democrats twelve years right to get to bullett and actually win again and so they have this cautionary tale of they went too far in the sixty and seventy years and I took control of years to recover. So if you talk to the like, really smart democrats and like like this can be twelve years, that's crazy. We have to do this a lot faster, but we have to reorient and we have to get back to. Common sense, we have to get back to Normal, we have to get back to you know, sensible, we have to get back to moderate.

We are actually playing a bill clinton debating during the elections of what year was that, Jimmy? I forget which what was when he first run.

first run h nine .

two is just awesome. Also, we played a clip of her hilary clan where he sounded more maga than anybody who's maga today. So SHE was talking about the penalties that illegal immigrants should face. They should pay a stiff fine because they came in this country illegally, and if they're criminal, they should be jailed or kicked out the country without question. Like all this was like, so mega like this is so wild to hear from hillery in two thousand and eight.

right? And Hillary and joe biden and and and all these people to be a wall center in california, left wing. He was down the order to PS from the wall that was being built like trying to credit for IT crazy yeah yeah like eighteen years ago yeah and so so yeah so another reason for optimism is I think that they're gonna be able to pull their way back. Like I think they are gona be able I think getting losing this bad is very motivating to be able to pulling away back and become more Normal. And I think again, that would be like, I mean, how great would I be if you had two parties that actually had like, yes.

Normal post I mainland was running up against trump exactly like he was so good. We played that speech that he gave after a sister soldier had a bunch of a very entire ite things about White people, and he gave this like super eloquent but yet compassionate speech about this, where he's very charitable about her position as being a Young person and not having the the best perspective on things. I was fuck and brilliant. Yes, IT was brilliant. That's the guy like that's the president .

modern standard of course he was the yeah well.

that's the working about fastest right because fascism by definition is almost always applied to right wing to tell italian governments. But it's really kind of just in hearing to the state and enforcing a doctrine and enforcing people to think and behave of our spirit, which is what the left when does.

And then you talk about like being prewar? Well, who's more prowl right now, the trump or the biden administration? Clearly, trump is less prewar.

Clearly, trump wants to end the war. Clearly by and just allowed ukraine to use long range muscles. And the rush like this is, I don't know what's going on in terms of negotiations. I hear all kinds of different things.

But if you look at one side that is pushing for these wars and seems to be all in on IT and the other side is not like with the fucking in power shift is so dramatic. It's really weird. The the free speech thing which was always attending of the left wing party IT was like you know me was doctrine like free speech is necessary.

It's it's, it's the foundation of our ability to discuss and find out what's right. What's wrong? You have to be mean.

It's the idea. You still let fuck and not see speed. They still let march. They would defend the right to do IT.

yeah. Needed of the idea to be sure what was wrong exactly. Yeah, IT was not that long ago when you had democrats that were very much in favor of many of these extremely sensible positions.

Super IT was pretty recent. And so I but again, reason I don't know if I don't know they are going to pull off. They might they might go crazy like they might just go right off the certain ly possible. But like IT is also possible that they'll drive IT back and that might .

happen quite quickly. And I am hopefully I am as well. I think the temperature of society like that, the mindset of society is so clearly moving away from that, that gonna have to course correct, which is just logical.

There is no way they're going to keep doing at the same way or double down is is not. They are going to go to away m sbc. They're going to become ridiculous. So they have to, which is good for everyone, for everyone.

So one of my theories, as you can separate the concepts of the united states in america, and you can be very optimistic about amErica and have all kinds of issues, united states, but still be positive about america. And the the difference is, the united states is the formal system of the government and the politics and all the stuff we get mad about in america. The people, right? right? And so you can be incredible. I am incredibly blish about the people. And then it's just a question of where the amErica part and it's just a question where where you can get the united states part kind of a line up, at least not prevent good things from going and ideally help good things.

Well, what are the things that you think about this administration, at least what they're proposing that would move us in that direction as supposed to the way things we're going?

There's a lot of things. I mean, I think you got to start with the dog, the the government, government .

efficiency and horia. So just winds up being doge doge, pushing doge coin forever. The universe speaks.

Yeah, it's just so, so many things are just so on the nose you like, is a simulation real? yes. I mean, he has to be real?

yes. Exactly, exactly. And you want to program me in the back room at night in between.

We certainly got a good position in the game. He's the number one diable player in the world right way. He just got number one, which means stocking bananas.

He is a good, uh yeah to look this goes back talking about before, like IT, IT is time to carve this government back in size, scope. It's time to take the overall you know, you could get write distribution of taxes, but it's the overall down time to take this spending down this time to get the government out of the position deciding who gets money. It's time to unleash .

economic growth alone explained this more agencies than there have been years of the .

united four hundred and fifty federal agencies um and two new one's a year and then my favorite twist as we have this thing called independent federal agencies um sorry for example with this thing called the consumer finance protection B O C fpb which was sort of eliza's warn personal agency that he gets to control and as an independent agency that just get to run to do whatever IT wants right and if you read the constitution, like there is no such thing as independent agency and yet there IT is what does her agency do whatever he wants?

What does he do that we basically terrorized, terrorized financial stimulus vent fit, prevent your competition. You start up to want to compete with the big best. Oh, just terrorized anybody who trust to do anything new .

in financial services.

And can you give me example? Uh, you know d banking is where a lot of the d banking comes from us is these agencies. So d banking is when you're us, either a person or your company or literally kick .

down of the banking system .

exactly like they did to come. My partner, ban's father, has been designed. Um we had an employ for what? For having the wrong politics, for saying unacceptable things under current banking regulations.

Okay, here's a great, here's a great thing. Under current banking regulations, after all the reforms the last twenty years, there is now a category called a politically exposed person. Pep um and if you are a pep, you are required by financial gulati to pick them off of your of to kick them out of your back.

Politically on .

the left, that's fine politic.

So no one on the left gets the bank.

I have heard of a single.

could you tell me what the person that you know did what they said?

But I mean, David is a right know, proper. I mean he said all kinds of things know he's been very entire. He's been very worried about the great migration, all these things.

And they do bank, yeah bank. So you get kicked out. You kicked out your back account.

You get, you get kicked out out of the you can do credit transactions, by the way, you can that legal well, exactly so this is the thing and so and then you're going to think of like what there's no this is where the government, the companies get intertwined that your fascism point, which is um there is no there is a construal memory that says the government can reduce your speech, but there's no constitutional al memory that says the government can do you, right? So if they can do the one thing that they they do everything and then they don't have to do bank you, they just have to put pressure on, on the private company banks to do IT. And then the private company banks do IT because they're expected to.

But the government is to say we didn't do IT. IT was the private company that did IT. And of course, James Morgan can decide who they want to have its customers, of course, right is a private company.

And so is the slide of hand that happens. So it's basically it's a private test sanctions regime that let bureaucrats do to american citizens the same thing that we do to an wow, kick you out of the financial system. And so this has been happening to all the crypto entrepreneurs in the list four years.

This has been happening a lot of the in tech entrepreneurs, anybody trying to start any kind of new banking service, uh, because we trying to protect the big banks um and then this has been happening, by the way, also in legal fields of economic c activity that they don't like. So a lot of this started about fifteen years ago with a single LED Operation shop point where they decided to um marijuana start to become legal as prostitution become legal and then guns, which there is always a fight about under the obama administration. They started to the bank legal marijuana businesses, uh escorted businesses and then and then and then gunshots.

Just like you're gun manufacturers and just like you're done, you're out of the banking system. And so if you're running a medical marijuana dispensary in twenty twelve, like you, guess what? You're doing your business all in cash because you literally can't get a back account, you can get a via terminal, you can't process transactions, you can't do pay role, you can't do direct deposit, you can't get insurance like none of that stuff is.

You've been sanctioned, right? None of that stuff is available. And then this administration extended that concept to apply IT to tech founders, crypto founders and then just generally political opponents.

So yeah so that's that's been like super pronunciation I was unaware of. Hundred percent is called the Operation shop point. One point now was fifteen years ago against the pot of the guns.

Two point, two point o is primarily against their political enemies and then to their disfavour ite tech startups. And IT said, the tech world, like we've heart we've had like thirty four ters debt in the last yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a it's been a big recurring pattern.

This is one of the reasons why we ended up supporting prompts like we just can't we can't live in this world. We can't live in a world where somebody starts a company that's a completely legal thing. And then they are literally like get sanctioned right embargoed by the united states government through a completely unaccountable.

No, by the way, no, your process. None of this is writing down. There is no rules, there is no court, there is no decision process, there is no appeal.

Who do you appeal to, right? Who do you go to to get your bank account back, right? And there's dell of the cil full future side of IT, which is write the other side. And that doesn't happen us, but that happens to people in a lot of places now who get arrested in all the sudden of the state takes their money.

yes, but that happens. People, they get pulled over and they have a large amount cash.

Some states or they're there published examples of why you there is like there is some investigation and the like safety posit boxes. And the next thing know the facts of seas of all the contents of the state of deposit boxes and that stuff never get return. So and this is wet, know this one, trump says the deep state, know.

I like the way we would describe IT as it's administration of power. It's political power being administered, not through legislation, right? So there's no defined law that covers this is not through regulation.

There's nothing you can you can go through a regulator to fix this. Um it's not through any kind of court judgment. It's just raw power is just raw administration of power. It's the government or politicians just deciding that things are going to be a certain way and then they just apply pressure until I get IT.

So what happens to those thirty tech people that you know .

to go to a different field, like try to do something different and try to try to try to get.

you know up in your life.

yeah can lead up ending of your life and try to try to yet try to change what try to get out of, try to get away from the eye sar on, try to get out of whatever is zone got you into this and keep applying for a new bank accounts, add different banks and hope that at some point a bank will say, okay, no, it's okay. We're is now alright, wow, but there's snow.

So what do they do with their money?

Like what happens and a cash?

I mean.

you go to casso, where do you put IT? Yes, exactly. Yes.

is so insane. So someone has thirty million dollars in the .

bank and they get the back, you know, do you? I don't know, go overseas somewhere.

Holy see. yeah. yeah.

And just like IT, IT just happens again. It's really very important. There's no fingerprints like there's no right there's no person.

there's no stick above the strings. Yeah.

exactly right. IT just happened. And and we can trace IT back because we understand and exactly know the politicians involved, and we know how the agencies work, and we know how the pressure supply, and we know that these banks, kit, phone calls and so far. And so we can lose like we understand the flow of power as IT happens. But when you're on the receiving end of this, you're specific instance of .

IT like you can try. So these what are the instances? Like what is the company? What are they trying to do and how do they run a while?

The cypher startups in the last basically four years. So remember the cypher cypher to think like really very excited. And I like all that stuff like stopped yeah.

And the reason stopped is because basically, every under ever gypt to start up, they either got debt personally and forced out of the industry, or their company got debt. And so IT couldn't keep up reading, or they got prosecuted, charged, or they got threatened with being charged. This is A N this is a fun twist.

This is A A little twist. So the S C sort of has been trying to kill the egypto industry under the biden. And this has been a big sue for us is where the big gyp's script to start of investor um the sec.

They can investigate you, they can separate you, they can prosecute you, they can do all these things um but they don't have to do any those things to really damage you. All they have to do is the issue was called the worlds notice. And the worlds notice is a notification that you may be charged at some point in the future, like you're like on notice that you might be doing something wrong and they might be coming after you at some point.

The view, oh my god OK terrifying. yeah. I the I of sorrow is on you ah now trying to be a company with the worlds, notice doing business with anybody else.

Oh my god.

right? Try to try to work with the big company, try to get access to a bank .

to do so that they support D. I, itis under .

biden became S, C, C, underside and became a direct application of h exactly. So D, I, they started, they did a lot with that in the the esg stuff. And esg are very much able concept, and they piled all kinds of new requirements into that.

So through through this process, the S C C could basically just simply dictate what companies do with no accountability at all. Like there's no, there's no over, there's no over. There are hearings where they get yelled out but like nothing changed, nothing ever happened and hearing that ever change anything, just the raw application of power um right um and so this is .

your friends this is so yeah .

for sure yeah. And we had like because that we had an employ who got the bank because he had crypto in his job title. He was he was to crypt to policy for us and his bank booted him.

Um because because they did did they screen across? It's what they told us as they did a screen across the across my base, anyone with crypto, because because anybody of script to became a politically exposed person, because because script was politically controversial, right? Sometimes it's like to these these terms, compliance, reputation management yeah tone at the top.

They have these lovely sounding terms that make its time like everybody is going to be upstanding citizen. But there are code for is destroy the enemy, like bring the hammer of god and the bank and the government, or whoever, or the or the, show me to bring IT down and just across the individual with no due process IT. Look, there is an argument in the long run that this is all on constitutional, because the constitution gives us all the right to the process, and this is government pressure. And this so like there is probably a supreme court case in five years that's going to find retorted that this was all illegal. But in the moment when you're the guy who's bene bank.

I mean, also the potential that if you do chAllenge them in court and lose the repercussions to be even heavier, exactly why is IT really worth your effort? Is IT worth the risk? That's right.

Especially if you've already had your life up and you ready to do IT again. That's when you barely build yourself back up. yeah.

So this is and I think this is important context or like when elan have a back talk about like reducing regulation there, there's two ways to think about reducing regulation. It's like all my god, they are going is going to get poison right now. Some of those regulations, I think, are very important um but the other way to think about IT is examples like this, which is just raw government power being applied to ordinary people who are just trying to live their lives, are just trying to do something and they're just on the wrong side of something that power have decided well.

there's something that isn't illegal but they don't want to be done like crypto o cyp to .

or having the wrong political points of view. Well, the trucker know the other great examples, the trucker strike up in canada and even more direct version of this, because here you had musically showing up. And IT was something like, step one was they take away your drivers license, which, by the way, right, is just somebody pressing a button on the keyboard.

No more drivers less. And step two, as I take away your insurance and step three as I take away your kids, right? And so like that was their version of this and that was a very special away your kid.

That was the threat of the end of the truckers and the canada truckers strike um because the truck because the truckers struck in canada, I was going to damm up of the cities because IT was that the farmers were the truckers were very seriously wanted to they were doing a not violent protest, but they wanted to stall the cities to be able to exert political pressure back back on the government right? And the government is like will tolerate for a little while. Then it'll take your drug license, then it'll take your insurance.

then it'll take your kids. And and how do they say they will take the kids?

Because it's administrate its administration of power like you can you can rent the theory of you can let these aren't good parents if they're sitting in a truck in middle of calgary preventing, you know good and services from reaching people, putting people's lives at risk know the child teaser and now I don't know if they actually see any kids, but it's an just example of there is an agency in the canaan government, just like in the U. S. Government, that if they want to do, they can take your kids.

Well, they were doing deep banking there with people who donated to the trucker. Colon boy, that's which is even crazy. That's not even people who were there.

People were opposed to the Mandates that trude's administration was imposing on people. And so they donated to these truckers. And then they got their bag counts taken away, which is really crazy.

yes. And so and and I exactly, and I think that I think the right way to think about this is when we think about to tell eternity m, we think about literally, world, world, you we think about nothing and jack boots with like and guns and you know, beating people up and killing people like that, that our mental, and that you may call that hard to tell her ism, that's like very lutely like violent to tell terrorism.

But there's this other version you might call soft to teeterin ism, which is just rules and power exercised arbitrarily that just simply suppresses everything, right and and this is to speech control and y backing and all these other things that we have been talking about and and that is know the good news is that are not coming up and like beating you up the middle. The bad news is like you are under their complete control um and they can do whatever they want to you. That doesn't involve physical violence, which basically includes the entire aspect of you know every aspect of how you actually conduct your life and support your family and get an income and everything else.

And most people aren't even aware of IT.

Yes, that's right. And you these are individual one of things. Most people don't have a voice. It's very hard to organic, you know, organized and these.

And then by the way, if there is an organza that organizes to try to get these stories out, and then itself can get deep is suppressed and deep bank what IT happened during the copy link dots, right? So the lack down protests, you all get suppressed, right? So you went, you know this like, so the lockdown went from two weeks across the curve to two months to two years, right? right? Okay, what the hell? right? And then there were these protests that were there were these protests that we're forming up in a violent protests that we're forming up to protest.

Look down. And I you know, you could argue the issue different ways, but people have a legitimate right to protest for that, just like they do for anything else. And the next thing you know is all the the lockdown protest, I got censored like, just like boot gone right. And so at that point, like the Normal process, is being able to read, try to get redressing your government right, to force your rights to literally, for examples, see your family of a family like you can even organize a protest.

Do you how much you aware of what happened with the F, T. X crisis? Because one of things that happened with the fd x thing was IT was revealed that were, I think there were the number two donor to the democratic party. Do you think that that is sort of a preemptive measure to avoid any of this, the banking and you know, be financially invested in these people, so they're .

not going to come. You strain, that was sams, yeah, seems approaches, sam. Sam approaches, just pay everybody. So so sams approach is just, I have eight billion dollars of customer funds that I can use for whatever I want right, which is the crime right? Um and then a big part of what he used some of that he used.

So I came out celebrities and time, which is alta indorse F T X in the Larry David commercial all the time. But a lot of something like one hundred and fifty million dollars that money went to basically just pay politicians. And and a lot of that money was paid to the politicians with no compliance at all, with all the campaign finance regulations that the rest of us will have to comply with. And so the money .

was just shot out of the door.

How come they don't have to comply? I because he was breaking a to be clear, he he was a little now a very funny thing happened, which is when he was indeed by the U. S.

government. They didn't they ended up not charging campaign fraud um and because they have to give all the money back. Well, so so there are two theories on the thing that they said was their their extradition agreement with remote threatens to not extradite him if they charged him on that charge.

Which is like super weird because you're the united number one, you're the united states of america. You can probably get the guy number two, did he really want to stay in a prison of per muta? right? So so that was all weird. And then and then, look, the other, there is no evidence for this, but the other theory is yeah the whoever are the powerless to be that decide these things in D C, decided to not open IT. It's like the option client list, like there are certain boxes yeah there are Better not to open .

at the campaign finance thing. Wouldn't they have to pay a back?

Um so then there's this like panic. The minute one of these scandals breaks like that, there is this panic. Russian, all of sudden politicians discovered film tropic causes.

They can donate the money to right um and then in the fullness of time, the trustees might come call the money back um so yeah there's so you will play on hover IT does but but IT IT is interesting IT is a great example of IT was the shot gunning of money into the system under like basically just like makely breaks in the law and then IT melt easily. The other argument is easy prison, his prison already. Like whatever IT just what have been, you know, in other sense. But like he did break all and he was not actually charged on that and that prosecution has not happened. Probably sitting here today.

never. Well, what's really fascinating about him is he was right. And if they didn't come after him, he would have gotten all that money to those people. IT seems like a kind of turned around, right? He didn't.

He didn't know what .

he did something. He still did something illegal. He did, he know was illegal in prison.

I think it's really hard to get inside that guy's head. Yeah, I don't know that I can represent his .

mental state. Be a fascinating podcast .

guest views out. He flop. Very hardly very hard to trial. Um yeah so he had an explanation, but the jury didn't buy IT.

Um what was his explanation? Uh you know that he was all the money was all being invested and he was going to get all back and he was all know placated theories around bell, this effective vulturous ism and this and that other thing. And the prosecution is just like, IT was the customers money? IT wasn't your money right? clearly. yes. So I don't yeah but .

is also vitamins involved, which definitely to screw your judgment? I mean, him in that lady were like sort of proponents of effet, my news.

And they were taking there some some antiparticles struck. They were taking, oh, that has the side effect of reducing your risk of ag and that makes .

you that people gamble.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There was a guy who won a lawsuit from galaxy o Smith line because he took requip and became a gay secs and gambling at, yeah, I think they paid him the equivalent of like, five hundred plus thousand american dollars. I believe I was an ireland. Yeah, dope. Mean, agonies are weird. They do strange things to people.

If that happened to me, I would definitely .

that's crazy that those guys were taken those things.

Boy, what a wide .

fellow confirmed. He wears an m sam patch. What's an m and patch? He supposed to use the depression medication.

H is supposed use of the depression medication, had kicked up some rumor. So what is that? The stuff that they at park .

since is that .

top me agent this? yeah. See, put a doping agonist. yeah. interesting.

interesting.

How does that work? Does that say how works? Commonly used to expression has IT worked though? Okay.

it's an mao inhibitor.

interesting. Used to treat mental depression adults, this medicine is a mono aie oxybate. Oh, okay, yeah, that's getting largely is also people take that as well as a neutropenia, i've heard.

So IT isn't a legally so gin g soledad, I think it's solemn. I knew a doctor who is taking that. He was taking IT as a, but not in a patch.

He was taking in a pale form, and he said he was A A new tropic. So monti in oxyde inhibitor. So that's the stuff that's the active, and that's what makes a ioas sca orally active.

Same thing. Monti mean oxy inhibitor, along with the plant that contains disco trip to me, which is not Normally orally active. So this guy, if he was doing drugs and taking main hybrids, he was out of his fucking mind, guaranteed.

Because I know people have taken like prescription grade M A O inhibitors and then taken mushrooms and literally almost never came back. I got to the point where for weeks they were fucked up. And then when they did come back, they're like, I almost lost IT.

Like, I was almost gone, gone. Like, you know, like the dude from pink floyd. Like never coming back, shining on you crazy diamond gone. And that happens to people, right? So this fucking kid with billions of dollars of people's money is taken those kinds of medications and fats, and who knew .

is what you you know on staff syc atrix.

who was prescribed .

onderstand. Once again.

once again, back to that. So crazy when a wild boy yeah are you following the uh.

psychology theories that now emerging around mpc and psychological changes that passes? No.

but I did read that IT makes your heart .

there there some theory of that which is very concerning but there there's a very amount of evidence that IT resolves uh alcoholic icon and and the current theory is that what he does is IT basically is essentially increases as yourself control h yourself discipline and that reduces cravings um and there is a theory that this is a very positive, let's say this is true, which is what they they think right now wealthy. But that's what they think.

The theory that is positive as the theory that if we all more responsible, lives will be more successful society Better counter argument would be like, responsible is only part of living and is only part of what makes a society work. We also need risk taking and we need creativity. And yeah, we need more pulse veness and we need variety.

And maybe we we're all gonna into a channel, right? right? And maybe are not gonna that just by itself ends up.

yeah, you can have everybody just you have to have wild fuckers out there. You have to have your jelli roles of the world, have every crazy people. They're fun. They make things more interesting. So it's essentially discipline and you know a pill form or an injectable form.

And IT is a very helper that proscribed and increasingly starting to prescribe IT to alcoholics .

and apparently working quite well. That's crazy. Well, that that brings me to eye gin, which is the one thing that has like the most success for people with addictions and is illegal in this country. People go down to mexico and go to this iva game retreats. It's apparently I haven't done that, but it's apparently this insane, introspective journey that's very uncomfortable at last, about twenty four hours. It's not something that's addictive in any way, shape, perform, almost everyone has its a very uncomfortable experience but you gain viable insight into what is wrong with you that makes you want to pick up heroin like what what's going on in there you're trying to escape like what is this panic recognizes that pathway and puts a chemical stop there and actually like stops people from having addictive cravings and IT rewire. So where they think about things particularly beneficial to veterans, a lot of veterans who have just seen way too much and come over the all fucked up and they don't have any way to straight their brain now and theyve had tremendous benefits using that.

You I wonder with a particularly with these um um these OEM ics and wake of me and all these different types of weight loss, diabetic drugs, I I wonder if there's a way to mitigate these side effects because when i've talked to people that think that like my friend bragin buler who runs wait to well, he he's concerned about side effects of IT but he's also he looks at people that are just more Billy obese and is like these people they need some fucking and help. They've gone down this terrible road yes, they shouldn't have done IT. yes.

Okay, we all agree to that. Don't eat pie all day. But if you've gotten to five hundred pounds, you're probably you're in a bad state and you could probably use some help and maybe that could get them back on track.

And maybe there is a way with maybe strength training because one of things is they lose a large percentage of muscle mass and bone density. Maybe that could be mitigated with strength training. Maybe is one of those things like if you're going to get on an example, you must live weight three times a week, which is that might be IT. I mean, if it's just losing tissue, there's certainly that's that's relatively easy to fix.

That's right. And the best way there's a ton of aren't dealing into these drugs right now. So there many more versus of these things.

I'm hopeful that we can develop something where no one can ever be obese. Again, that would be really interesting. I mean, maybe this is just the first steps of this, right? And then like these are crude versions of what will ultimately be a very comprehensive. We have addressing an issue like that.

So thing that says, so i've been a florida last couple weeks working on some of you stuff happening down there. And one of the things I learned is that the R F K the R K is really in charge um of health for the country for that is really in charge um you know working with the president and um he you know for all the controversy round of his positions, like he's you know this whole, I like he's very serious about this and a lot of people, including a lot of the most qualified people I know the feel like he is long overdo that.

We look at the food system, yeah and we look at all these whatever to your point, the horrible track that we've been on for forty years. This is a complete atap ropy. And I think it's a this is concept of psychology called common knowledge, which is it's like it's something that everybody knows, but yet nobody states out loud.

And so it's like it's like known but then else and there's a tipping point, all the sun, there's not only known, but it's like obvious of everybody grees on IT. yes. And this feels like one of those moments.

It's like behavioral exercise, like the path that people are on to become of this. Like, no, like this actually needs to be the rest. This is actually a profile issue and it's it's the road to hill.

And like IT has to get fixed and maybe IT get IT get fixed chemically and maybe IT get fixed behavior, relate or other things. Maybe the culture has to change, but like IT has to get fixed. And i'm actually I very encouraged like I think this is not going to be a very big focus here or and and not just by the government, but I think also in the culture.

I agree, and i'm very encouraged as well. And I think as we were talking before about a sort of a shift in perspective of the country, I think a shift in perspective of the country towards that being something they should strive towards. I think that's coming to.

I think that's happening right now. One of the happiest moments for me is when I run into someone and they said they were inspired to get fit and healthy from listening to talking about the benefits of IT. I talk to so many people that have lost one hundred pounds, hundred fifty pounds.

They are exercising regularly. They eat healthy. It's fantastic. It's one of my favorite things when I run into people that are fans, the podcast.

So what one of my theories on this is that, but this is part of this. What happened is something very specific, capital and covered wishes. The public health people, by and large.

looked very unhealthy. Yes, they didn't look good.

right? And so you've got these people standing up. They're telling everybody how that god, I like, do all know, like down in the mass and like all that stuff and like.

yeah, bill gates get jack .

but that would be very helpful.

He got out of money.

That would be extremely helpful. Get a trainer when he writes the book and goes on the press to her .

to talk about public. Alf.

that would be great. Yeah, great, by the way, be great for him and his family and society. IT will be very reassuring.

Bill gates, on a six speed i'd listened.

do a more that I think absolutely solution fantastic. And so like it's just this thing and just like, of course, like, yes, the people who are telling us all how to live and eat ought to be healthy, right? And if they're not.

clearly, that's where ark comes in a hundred .

and he was great. Yeah, yeah, super like this just like.

yeah, we're taking a part of my dude, jack, we put my my ARM of your fucker jack, dude, I think yeah works out all the time and gold jim and Venus genes on because that was genes that so I don't get that amazing seems where that seems like you gets in the way squad like origin genes got a lot stretchy fabric. You know got you have to give stretchy genes but even then, like put some short time, would you do in mad?

It's like, it's like prisoner of credibility. It's it's .

antasari a little, a little street old school. You know, we're in temple lands, yes, temples and other genes and doing your squats, it's kind of crazy. But the motion of health is like, I don't know how anybody could be against that.

Do you want more energy? Do you want more vitality in your life? You should be healthier. It's like your your body's race car. And you could choose if you work hard enough to jack up the horse power, you can make Better breaks, you can have a Better view injection system, like the whole thing, you work way Better.

I if work at IT, and that is your vehicle for properly you through this life, I will give you more energy for creativity, more energy for your family, more energy for your hobby, your recreation time with your friends. You will literally have more energy as a human, which is what we all like. Nobody likes waking up and feeling like shit me.

Everybody y's been hung over who's had a few drinks and you wake up in the morning like, what do I do? I want to do this again. What do I do this to my file and then you can't wait for the day you feel Better like, you drink your electorate.

You get your sleep. You do whatever the fuckyou can you like? I'll be over the soon.

Oh, your head. Oh, and you know, everybody likes having more energy is Better for you. And we can promote that as a society. And that this R F, K, junior appointment is a really big step in that direction that we've really never had before.

You have to go back like, literally has unled gfk had a program like this, like one nine hundred and sixty two, yeah, in a long time.

Well, mule, obama did .

for a bit, right? A bit. Although that .

was like vegetable.

like vegetable. An SHE vegetation was vegetarian .

ork like no, that's not right.

No.

that's not right. It's so dumb. I can't wait till they can figure out the plants really can't think and feel because the real close, the real close to prove in that have demonstrated intelligence and allocation of resources through my decision.

There's a lot of stuff that we know now about plans. So we didn't know that. I think they're all conscious.

I think everything's conscious. I think we need other recordings of the screams.

just like army god, you play audio orders of caterpillars eating leaves and the flavor profile of all the plants around IT. Yeah, they've ve done this because there's a phenomenon when giraffe, if giraffe are eating, if they are up wind and they're eating leaves, as the the wind comes down, IT gets to the other, okay, a trees, the ocasio trees will. They'll come up with this fight to chemical.

They produce a fight to chemical that's disgusting to the giraffe and the draft literally starve because they won't need those trees. And they do this somehow. Another through communication like they're preventing war. They're being attacked by mamas and they're like we have to stop the attack and nature is provided them with this mechanism to do that, which is really crazy.

So back back back to the dose for a moment. Um so the one of the reasons why everybody became unhealthy is because the government directly exert put itself into the food system, and specifically high of concern, right? I first concert was an art effect of government agricultural subsidies. The country was which was good during war.

War too, because we needed food at one time.

Yeah right. But by the one thousand nine hundred seventies, we were measly overproducing. Specifically, we were measly overproducing court and and the the court lobby of agricultural lobby became very powerful.

And and we have this government agency. One of the four hundred and fifty government agencies is the U. S.

D. A. And the U. S, D, A has a dual Mandate is to promote U. S. Agriculture, specifically things like corn. And it's also to advise on what we should eat, and they also do the food permit. And that's why the food pure mid upside down, right?

For all those decades where we were supposed to carbs and not protein fat was because literally, as the agency is responsible for promoting agriculture, and then that agency is inserted itself through laws, regulations and this kind of administrator pressure, and basically said, vw shell use hydro corn here because he is by product of the court as opposed to sugar, right? And as we now know, that was with absolutely poisonous decision, like that was like little, little poison, absolutely ruinous decision. Just an absolutely terrible idea.

Casey means was on here, and he was explaining the the very ism by which high fok tos currency rope encourages over consumption. And then it's essentially like it's an evolutionary thing that like where bears would eat, like a bunch of barriers to get fat for the winter, it's like these high for those currency have encouraged you to overconsume.

Yeah, we were not supposed to be eating this. This was not supposed, would not be drinking IT. One hundred percent? Yes, no, hundred percent.

And so, but this would not have happened. The government that made IT happen. So IT traces directly back to the government decision to do that. Now they didn't course, they didn't understand the consequences, but that's kind of the point, which is they interfere without understanding the consequences.

And so that's the kind of thing where you're look at IT and you're just like, all right, like then you forty years later and you're still doing IT, right? And then and at some point, you know what the consequences are. And at some point, there's a question of what they have been covered up, right? right? And it's just like OK.

At some point, this has to stop, right? And and literally, they just need to stop like they just need to stop, such as in corn, they to stop forcing food companies to do, they just need to stop. And so this goes back to like the regulatory reform thing, which is like there's just like tremendous amount of this that may have been good intention at one point ah but sitting here today, we're living with these horrible downwind consequences. And unless somebody steps in with a hammer.

none of this is going to happen. And they also the insane amount of money that's involved because R G. Runs these tobacco companies when they are getting sanction, they're going in trouble. They decided, well as all these food companies.

And so now these same companies that lie about whether not cigarettes addictive and cause cancer, now the same companies are pushing super unhealthy food on people, or at least selling super unhealthy food people, which I think you should be allowed to buy. I think you'd be allowed to buy whatever the park you want all for that. But I do think we should be like much more aware of what's actually going on, like you're saying, and why this stuff is in there in the first place.

Well then then you get in these other know more delicate questions but it's like, okay, food assistance programs for like you know low income people, low income children is like, okay, should they be do we want little kids who have no control over this to end up on the receiving end of this food production pipeline of money and .

hounds cheaper cheer .

subsidized because they're subsidized. And so and you just you have this very previous outcome where you have these government officials who've been standing up there for forty years, things we're protecting you. We're protecting you. And what's been happening as they've been poising us yeah so like stuff like IT just needs to stop and that's that's where you need something. So somebody like president run.

What would they be able to do to mitigate a lot of these issues? Like how would they if you want to, would you make IT illegal to put high photos, concerns, son and as an ingredient? Or would you simply stop subsidizing? Like, and what would be how would that work within the government? Like, how would you apply something like that?

Yeah, think there are three things you can do, two of which involve direct action in them there, maybe even the most important. So one is, you can just stop doing things that are harmful. You can stop doing things if the government can help subsides in bad things, as an example.

So give this a parallel things. If you want to clean enough universities, you need to stop feeding the student loans, right? So, right? The government should stop paying for things that are not harmful.

So so that's one. And then two is, look, there maybe a role for additional you know, protections or prohibitions. And so for example, maybe you would let people freely buy all the orioles they want, but maybe you can get them with food to systems programs.

So no, guess who have no control over IT or not not being poisoned. And so you know, we do that. But but I always think that the third thing is cul culture, like there's always a temptation with these discussions because the government are powerful to talk about what the government does IT doesn't do. And I think so much of this has to do with the culture.

It's so to actually upstream or downstream from politics, which is like like what is the cultural tone of the country, right? What's the value system? What are the role models? right? right? What are people being inspired to do? Also, what form of shaming is an effect? Like, what are we're not gonna lern IT take the previous fat studies like we're gonna Gloria five obesity, right? right? no. And that's not necessarily a legal judgment or a court case, but it's it's it's a cultural statement and and and it's not that the government place to control the culture, but our leaders certainly play a big role in that yeah and so in both in outside of government. So for our leaders to step up at a moment like this and basically say, I know this is not the kind of culture were going to have, is not the kind of society we're going to have, is not what could should not be looking up to, I think, think, is just as powerful as the actual government actions.

It's interesting you saying the kind of shaming, because I don't want to shame and everybody if be in fat a boy.

is that work maybe you should back shaming work and maybe you should shame parents .

if the kids are problem and maybe there's so many people that are ignorant as to what exactly is going on.

of course, and that is like absolutely .

and fed .

in a hundred. And yes, but but again, it's also a cultural just like, okay, media think like is the media educating people on this? And if the mainstream media is not doing IT right there, there be new media sources that are who get in which sources and then therefore which sources the media get respect. And so we have this giant collective culture question right that we get, that we all get to ask and answer, and particularly those of us in a position to be able to send messages that a lot of people here.

So that will help, that will help move the needle. And what specifically can r fk during your do once you actually gets in? Mean, all instrument here.

his secretary, which he has very broad, I would say, very broad ability to look at inside the government back because .

they are gonna against that like that seems like a wild amount of money is going .

to be lost here. So there there's the work that camera secretaries like he will be doing formally, and then there's the work that the dosh and and and the president will be doing kind of in parallel with that. And know there be some conversations between those um and and there we'll see there is a potential here for quite dramatic action.

A lot of these things. Could you imagine if you are running an agency and you have to have a meeting with a vae in elon? Yes, you got to open your box. yes. Like office space where they brought .

in the .

bobs for consulting what you do here? exactly. That's exactly. It's like is there a meme like that?

Is there a meme like that? I think there's a meme where they take those guys, they put elon in the vages heads on them. Yes.

there was another key time lines at that happened in silicon valley about two years ago, actually two and hf years ago when he actually before he took over twitter, where he got an email fight with the E O. Twitter at the time, who's actually guy, he was a friend of mine is a really good guy. But IT literally, this guy had just been promoted from engineering to run the company. And then like a month later, he ends up trying to deal with the elan situation. So get a little bit time back on IT but um uh yes.

of course he said he lam says he revealed office space to prepare for doge of course he did .

a psycho exactly.

God, we're so lucky that guys around exactly.

So there was this moment in the twitter takeoff of elan sense as email, and he says in the line is what, what did you get done this week?

wow.

What did you get done this week? And in the context of silicon valley companies, that was a provocative statement, because a lot of silicon valley companies take months or years to do anything. But imagine that statement being applied to .

the government. Oh my god.

right? Like the level of, like, accelerated. I like, okay, what are the problems? How are you going to fix them? And what have you got done this week?

Yeah, you think the banking up ended some lives?

Yes, exactly. So yes, what have you done this weekend? By the way, when anyone is actually interesting, a guy just wait, uh, guy just tweet posted and what it's like to work for elite, his AI company x ai.

And he said elan came in last week, said elan spent eighteen hours at the office, and in five minute chunks, and IT was, every five is each person had a five minutes baking slot to explain the elan what they were doing. wow. And he did that four or five times, whatever, right? All for eighteen hours.

This is cries. And so I think about what that meant. Every employee had an opportunity to tell the big boss what they were working on. Every employ had an opportunity be recognized for their effort.

Every employee had an opportunity to get live feedback from the big boss who had a comprehensive review of everything is to what they should be doing. Wow, and there's no place to hide, right? I think about different IT is for a company to be run that way. Then even again, in the value companies generally quite well run by by sort of business standards. And even that like that's the level of intensity most companies already been close to.

Now imagine that applied to government, and this is a kind of thing.

There's no law that like there's no reason IT can't be done. There's no law that prevents that. There's nothing in the constitution that says you can do that. A choice how the government is one is a choice on the part of executive branch, the president, for how it's going to get run. And there is no reason .

why the government can literally be run. Be right. And here's what crazy the push back against even the concept of this by left this, so left this defending bureaucratic blow. And big government is wild to watch.

which they really shouldn't be doing, which is a weird thing to have write themselves into. My hope is theyll figure out how weird this is.

Do you think it's like just an ideological thing, like the right wants this, so we oppose.

I think I think, I think the left things they control the government, like I think fifty years ago, they would have been on the other side of this of this issue like like no one chop fifty years ago called on the other side of this would have you government power's an extension of like the state and big business intertwined any of these stocks just a manufacturing of consent.

Where is like government and business are inspiring against you? Yeah so he would have been on the side of this. But I think today's left to think they control the government, which in many ways they do well. So washington D C. Washington D C. Voted ninety four percent for uh, six per per triumph, right? And so okay, so two data points that is da point number one, data point number two, four of the ten wealthier counties in the country, our suburbs washing dc.

wow.

lobby st, lobby st. Yeah the bet way bandits. Yeah .

crazy job. The actual term.

And these aren't people working for the government. These are people making money from government. These are people sponging of the government.

Um and so like yeah to the extent of democrat of wedge themselves in a position where they're defending this, they really should they should really rethink this. They should figure out how to get back to bright direct mentality. And they used to .

have no that if there's less blow, then there's less tax dollars. You don't need as much of money to fund these things. There's like people can be taxed less. There can be more allegations of these funds towards these social proms that we all want.

Most federal workers never came back to work. They were from home most, most large percent. Something like half just look literally just never come back wow. They still, by the way, still draw pay check. They're still on their jobs but literally they're not the office um or in some cases, they have an agreement where there is one agency, one name, but there one agency where there is where the this is okay, here's another great thing um there agencies of the federal government whose workforces are both civil service civil full civil service protections and and unionized entirely paid for by the taxpayer but they both have civil service protections which by the way are totally made up there's no concept in the constitution of civil service protections is just like totally made of thing and are unionized and there is a particular agency that I know over the union agreement. The union negotiated at the return of the office from covert and agreement was you have to in the office one day a month well.

And actually what the pattern .

knows what they do is the employees comment on the last day, the month and the first state of following month. So they only have to be there for two days for out of sixty.

That's crazy. As a .

consequence, many of them have actually left the area right because they get their government page with calibrated for living there. And then they go live some place nice, you some place nice, but you know, they go live the service or something, words cost, living is cheaper and they a bigger house. And you know, in theory, they're working from home.

But like, you know, like is, is that actually happening? So and this is what again, this is the dose. One of the things the the doors they have already announced, the thing they're said is you can work from home just not for the federal government, right? yeah.

And so when people are talking about like is the doors going to be able to do anything like it's just okay, there are fifty percent of final workforce, right? And know, yes, as a taxpayer, how do you feel about that? And you know teach your point on paying taxes, like if those people are in the office in their dynamos of activity and the way in the country Better, right? They're enough, of course.

But if they are kick in at home, right? Maybe not. Yeah, maybe not.

That how much oversight has there have been on? Whether not they've been kickin IT .

excelled question. yeah. Now IT turns out there are way there are actually there are ways to figure out this out.

Um so for example, for many jobs where you have to log in to be able to get access like the email you you can actually in like after the VPN to get them to the corporate network, you can actually aud IT and you can see who've been working. And then there is a um do you know about mouse regulars? Yes yeah yes.

programs.

I actually physical oh.

the physical mouse regular .

a physical mouse regulars. It's a physical device that holds your mouse and the intervention ally works IT um and a friend of mine who runs a big tech company um he just had like a nagging ing feeling the back and said that maybe all of his work work workers weren't pulling the wait and so he actually wrote himself in a week algorithm inspect all the mass movements of all employees for a week and and then he bought all fifty like mouse we're going from china that you can buy and he figured out them all and he thought that he had whole bunch of employers who were using moumtzis, right? And so how many federal employers are using mass?

right? So how crazy? That's how they can measure.

What not your active, whether your mouse is moving yeah like what are they? What are they seeing? Just just a pattern of movement of the mouse .

mouse the mouse regular is moving in a way that you can figure print.

So it's like you agree to a certain amount of disclosure of your personal information where you working like how do you get a access to mouse wig?

Oh, so it's very common. So incorporate environment is very common that the your company issued computer has some kind of software on IT that lets the company control the software and gives them the company some level of visibility and what you're doing. And that doesn't mean that doesn't mean they are washing, literally washing you IT means they have the ability to can reach and be able, be able to see how how much is the computer on, is the moving. So that actually A.

I heard the most ridiculous argument against what going to do with all those employees that get red. What you going to do with all those people are stealing hop caps. They're going to live in steal.

What you going to do if you make hop caps stealing illegal? Like what are you talking about? They are essentially stealing tax dollars. If they really are they doing something that's totally useless and they we're wasting enormous amounts of money on this every year, the argument that what are you going to do of those people can do that anymore is really crazy.

Yeah, well, the answer is they can do something productive.

yeah. And people are more than capable. You don't have to infant lize someone to say like this is the only thing they're capable of doing. They worked for the government for twenty years. This is all they can do.

And then by the way, there is multiple, not on of a positive, not on effects. If you can cut government spending, multiple knock on effects. So one is if you cut the spending, you can cut the taxes and you can the private economy, then just simply has more money.

Because IT has not been taken. And so if there's less public span, there will be more private spend, right, right? Because the money realize.

And so there might be just as much demand in the economy is just coming from people choose them to buy things instead of the government forcing IT. So that's number one. Number two, you can bring down the government debt, which means you can bring down government interest. And the government today, the federal government today pays more in interest than and .

we pay for the department of the defense. Well.

but how much that salary? No, that's just interest on the debt, right? Interest on the old debt OK. We pay like one point two billion a year right now, I think is the latest number, which is which is just interest on debt .

is not paying for any good or of the GDP. Well, so the total .

government spending on the world of seven trillion interest payments are like one point two trillion, something like one point two. I think the current number D O D is one hundred billion years, one point two trillion just off the top, yeah just off the top. And again, no time nobody y's benefit from .

that is just interest .

payments to G D. Like I don't know, it's twenty, thirty, forty million, much larger than that. But like still enough.

This is a lot of money and the total accumulated is three fillion and and grow. The total accumulated that is three, five trillion and that adds another trillion of accumulated that every hundred days. Yes, oh my god.

IT hurts my head. There's a congress .

man actually a Thomas macy, you should have. So he's the one guy in washington who talks about this and he's an m he's but he's one of the only libertarians and he's a um he's an M I T engineer and he actually designed himself a pocket, the pal pen calculator of the of the of the government dead. And he wears that every day.

And he walks around with the walks.

He walks with a little scrolling l on his lap. And IT literally counts IT. IT counts the and its accurate pulling data from the U.

S. It's actually an active account. And so it's like thirty four trillion and thirty five trillion and thirty trillion. Here's the kicker. At the current pace of the compounding, it'll cross the debt across one hundred trillion in the foreseeable future. So he's already working on the redesign because he needs a bigger device with the bigger screen to be able display the bigger number.

How much anxiety to get standing around him?

Look at that. His goal, right? He was because otherwise the status called in washroom is just let this happen.

Oh, right. And so, anyway, so so another way you benefit is reduction of interest. And then another way you benefit is reduction of interest rates. If you bring down the amount of debt in the economy, you bring down interest rates. And then everybody else who buys things when you go to buy for a house, your mortgages is cheaper, right? So everybody who buys, but whoever borrows money in the real economy .

than therefore is Better off. This is nothing against being only good for wealthy people.

is good for everybody, right? That's good for anybody who ever get car on home loan, small business loan you bring down. interesting.

But this fundamental discussion of the argument, particularly from the left, is that all these tax cuts, deregulation, all, all this is going to do is make trump supporters and trump s people wealthier and it's going to run in the middle class and rule in the local. Everyone else is going to suffer.

So just observational ally, almost all the rich people in our society. Yeah, the the the democratic party. So democratic, republican, it's what they all, it's a political scientists called top plus.

Bottom versus is the configuration. So the deep cate party is the top in the bottom versus middle. So the top is what you might call the sort of upper middle class coastal elites.

So it's everybody went to the fancy schools. It's everybody with the fancy jobs. It's for sure me I guess you're grandfather in yeah right but it's it's like it's like it's like fancy.

It's like high networks ks, high income people with primarily knowledge working jobs, right? So professor, reporter, a programmer, right? Database expert, later lawyer, account banker, like all all the sort of court elite jobs.

And i'll know the elite degrees, by the way, we all went to the top schools and I like know the degree. So so that's the top. And then the bottom is you call the client tell in the class, right? So and if they call the rathe rainbow coalition, right?

So it's all, it's the minority groups, right? And so it's the assembly of, you know, low income african americans, low income latinos, recent immigrants, recent immigrants and so forth, right? And so that's the democratic coalition that kes explicitly programmed against.

And then republicans in in our era, republicans are the middle class, lower middle class. It's all the people who don't have the fancy degrees and that are doing all the actual work that's basically making the country run, right? So IT is everybody from the small business owner of the restaurant know the the truck drivers, farmers, you know all the way, you know, garbage man.

And genitor is like everybody who goes to work. Ninety five has a job probably probably either small business or a physical job. No, it's sort of say labor like real labor, like actually labor ate callicles on the hands right kinds of stuff. So kind of so called real economy, which is why the republicans are concentrated in the center in the south because that's where all those things are. And then democrats are concentrated in new york and california and on the coast, which is where all the symbolic you know creative intellect al jobs are and so the weird thing that happened is um the progress liberals and progressive ism started speaking for the working man right like a hundred years ago it's booked for the working man and now what's happens there's been a complete reorientation where the working man has separated out and and then you saw that in this most recent election um where the unions the union leadership still for the most part in doors kala but the ranking file vote majority for drop in a lot of cases and the data that I remember is the teamsters vote to seventy percent for trump.

What do you think the motivation of all these wealthy of all for common Harris was .

because they feel great, because they're saving the world. So it's amazing to be in charge and control society and decide how everything works and decide who's good and who's bad. And like you're elite, you get to be the ite. You get to make the elite decisions.

And if you want to be in that group.

you have to you, you got to do this and you feel good about yourself because you feel like what you're doing is on behalf of your you feel like what you're doing is on behalf of your of your client.

telenor. It's reinforced by the .

echo chAmber you live and is why the kind if you if the media, york times, either times only has two articles and I see either how evil or republicans or how innocent and helpless or or agreed minorities or you know identity groups, right? And so opposition force and then but we're the party of good with the capture because we're taking care of all these poor marginalize people. So it's a very compelling. You feel great about yourself, right? It's just directly amazing.

And then by the way, just so happens that the economy is wired up in a way where you're onna paid a tony money, not working very hard and it's all great and then you're completely isolated away from the lived experience of just Normal people, which is the state that i've thought myself in where you would never even occur to you to talk to a garbage man or to a somebody you know bring a restaurant or whatever because it's just like you're not affected by the raising crime rates, but you live in a safe ibo od and you've got what you know, you're against the world on the border. You get a wall around your house, right? right? And so you just you're in this bubble and then you only ever talk to people who agree with you, right? And then the media is costly, reinforcing IT and then you get exercised if you disagree.

And that's that's the wedge like that's the and IT worked like look for a long time that were for forty, fifty, sixty years, IT worked as a way to get in whole political power. It's just gotten wedged in front of this corner where you can longer win. And so therefore, IT IT has to get examined.

So for you, when you have the shift of thinking, you talk to the waiter and then the hilly clinton speech, and how long is IT before you start public of expressing these things? And like, how much of reluctance is there .

also from twenty six seventeen to twenty twenty hours, just like trying to figure what the hell is going on and then cover, hit. And then I was trying to figure what the help was going on. The coffee and know our business, you know, went crazy, business caved in and head all kinds of crazy, horrible things happening. And you know, we have all these companies, we have hundreds of companies for a responsible forest startups. And so we're working with them to try keep them a fat going, to give them money in everything. Um but really IT was I mean, really the big thing was the biden administration just like flat out try to kill us, like they just came like straight at us and they came straight our founders um and so and they tried to kill cyp to and they were they're on their way to try to kill I um I mean they were horrible .

like was the motivation .

to kill A R because is because they want control. I mean, they want control. They want to control.

They want to control in the same way they respond the potential of headed .

off the they want to control, they want to put a headache, want to stop IT, but they want to make sure that they control that in the same way that they control social media, in the same way that they control the press.

So how are they .

trying to do the same? I mean, so it's is the AI is think about IT is the same dynamics that caused sensor ship to happen a social media. We're also gonna happen in a and and so a couple steps.

So one is you just want a small number of companies that do A I because you want to be able to put them in help like and control them. So you basically want to give you specially want to have a government. You want to bless a small set of large companies with a cartel instead of a regulatory structure where those companies are intertwined with the government. And then you want to prevent startups from being able to enter that cartel .

and how would they do that?

That's a threat of the control. So it's constant of regulatory capture. Um and so the way this this is happened many times for hundreds of years.

This is like a very well established of thing in economics and politics. So if if suppose you are big, I suppose you are big bank. Suppose you are Jamie diamond, you N J.

Morgan chase. Like what's like the biggest possible threat of what you could possibly face? It's that there are some disruptive change that comes along the up the entire business.

You know your code to know your code deck. We're making a tony money on an analog film and the legal cammas come along and you get destroyed. And further in your vitra ies like you, you go to idiot who like poor video poster video, like that's the caution tale.

Those are the good stories that those guys tell around the campfire at night. They just absolutely terrifying. And like business schoolteachers, like that's the one thing you do not want to do. And so there's two ways to try to deal with that.

One is you could try to invent the future before that happens to you, but that's hard because you're running a big company and you know these starts are out there doing all these crazy things. And can you really do that? And it's hard, risk and dangerous. The other thing you can do is you go to the government, you can basically say, okay, what we're we would like to propose basically a trade, which is we would like the government to put up a wall regulation.

We would like the government to put in place rules, right, that are potentially thousands of pages long, right? In effect, the more the Better, right? We want a very, very, very high bar for regulation for what's required to be in this business because i'm a big company, I can afford ten thousand lawyers and compliance people, right? I I voluntarily put myself under basically the government thun um but in return, the government has erected this wall of regulation such that the next year comes along and just the next company comes long, just literally can function. And by the way, this is literally what happened in banking.

So pre two thousand eight, per the financial crisis, there were many different banks in the country, big with big, medium, small and lots of new bank startups every year that with people who just start banks, entrepreneurs, ks of many, many different kinds um after the financial crisis we have had this problem called the too big to fail banks right? The banks were too big. And so there was this legislation called dd Frank which was regulate reform for banking which is going to fix the too big to fail banking problem.

The implement of that in twenty eleven, I call about the big bank protection. After twenty eleven, IT was marketed as I was going to solve the problem of the too big to fail banks. What I actually did was that made the much larger.

So those banks are those banks that those too big to fail banks, the same ones we bailed out are now much larger than they were before. The the banking industry has concentrated into those banks. All the midsize banks are being shaken out.

And you know they're period ally. They'll go under like the silicon illa back and IT went under. And this has been happening all across the economy. And then sense dod Frank, the number of new banks create in the united states has drop to zero. wow. And so the banking system is being centralized basically into ten big banks, actually have a term have a great term called gisele h globally significant something something back um and so there's like ten g sips and then basically was going to happen as those are gna consolidate basically into the three big bags.

And if you get the bank by one of the big three.

you're t you're actually be done.

oh my god. But but think about .

IT from the other side. If you're the treasury secretary and you want your political enemies, bank is just a one cal, right? Which is which is what has been happening, which is happening under under under under the prior regime. And again, zero.

zero new banks. Yeah zero literally was .

like cardiac rest was like that's IT for new bank shutters. And we've companies that have tried to start new banks and it's it's essentially impossible because you have to comply with the wall of regulation. You need to go hire your ten thousand compliance people in your lawyers, but you can't afford to do that because you're not big enough yet.

You so you can't function like you can't exist like it's not all it's rule is my definition is ruled out. You you can't do IT it's not financially vivo. So so that happened in banking.

That's what they're been doing. A social media um been the same. It's been by the way, this has happened in many other industries.

By the way, this this is this happen. The food food industry is greater, the consolidate. That's a lot of what's happened in that industry as well.

It's the intertwining of government and the company, right? Because because at that point is like, okay, is this a private company? Yes, like it's still a private company that has a stock Price as a CEO.

Does the CEO have to do everything that the relevant cabinet secretary tells him to do? Yes, he does. Why does he have to do that? Because if not, it's going to be investigations and openness and prosecutions and protocols, ical examinations .

for the rest of his life accuse A C C P of doing in china .

it's the so if you combine banking and social media um and and now you have basically privatize social credit score is where you end up with this, right? And this goes back to the truck construction thing you don't have to threat and take away somebodies kids. You just like you throw to take weather insurance you know thread, take weather and insurance.

It's not government insurance is being taken away. The same thing is happen in the insurance industry. It's consoled down with small handful of companies.

They are super regulated. If the government doesn't write, you have insurance, you're not any insurance and there's no conditional right to insurance. So there's so there's there's no appeal press.

We're back to the banking thing. And so that happened in banking. That's been happening in in the tech, social media generally. Um it's been happening in many other sectors.

And then it's just happening specifically in A I and what what you have an A I is you have a set of CEO of some of the big A I companies that want to happen because, again, they're big threat, is that we're gna fun to start up. It's going to eat their lunch, right? It's going to really screw them up.

And so they like, look, if we could just take the position we have. And with government protection, the trade is will do whatever the government wants. And if you assume the government is controlled by, you know, people who want your sensor and punish and cancelled their political opponents, that's onna come right along with IT.

And so that's why when these AI systems come out like nine times out of ten, they're tremendously politically biased. Yeah, you can do this today. You just go on. You got into these systems today .

and you just like you just start asking, like really basic. I mini ze.

the best example that right when they had multiple al IT turns and I had had an excEllent policy. yeah. Now in a reality, he did not.

And it's important understand that in reality he did not. But yeah, german I have fully throw up. But not because because it's but they programmed IT to be biased. They programmed IT in a political direction. This is David reside who has been doing these analysis on the social media side um where he shows the incidence rates of the rise of like all of the work, like language like in the media and either similar studies that have come out for the A I or you studies that have been done that basically show the political orientation of the l ms because you can ask some cause you can ask some questions, you'll tell you and they're just like nine nine to ten of them are like tremendously biased and then there's a handful that aren't um and then there's tremendous pressure. This is one of the threats from the government. Is this the government based going to force our startups to come in compliance, not just with their trade rules, but also with all of their essentially A A censorship regime on I, exactly like the censorship regime that we had on social media.

Wow, that's terrifying. Yes, exactly.

And yes. And this is my belief and what i've been trying to tell people in washington, and which is if you thought social media censor ship was made, this has the potentially be a thousand times worse. And the reason is social media important.

But at the end of the day, it's, you know, it's just people talking each other. A I is going to be the control layer on everything, right? So AI is going to the control layer on how your kids learn in school. It's going to be the control layer on who gets loans. It's going to be the control layer on does your house open when you come to the front door.

It's going to be the control layer on everything, right? And so if that gets wired into the political system, the way that the banks did in the way that social media did, like we are in for a very bad future. Um and and that's a big thing that we've been trying to prevent is to keep that from happening. And and the bite administration was explicitly on that path like they were very clearly going for that. Um and I was I was just like Crystal clear.

that's where I was added. And do you feel like with the second administration that i'd be even more evolved into action in that direction? yes.

Person, another another by administration for sure. And then there was another open question on cma. And the open question there was just SHE wouldn't as you know, SHE wouldn't declare if her issues positions were the same as by if they were different, right? And so you know you imagine a common administration that had a very different approach, but he refused to clarify any other positions, right? And so we we had to assume that they would be the same button, which.

which I think is the default. Is this a closet sort of a perspective? And silicon valley to people hide these thought that this administration, we would be bad for business.

I mean.

much less now than yes.

Yeah, but I get a really broke a lot. You did two things that really opened a lot of this up. One is he he bought twitter, which really gave us a place to talk about this stuff, all of us. But then also, he he himself, of course, started to actually express himself.

And so he gave a lot of the rest of us permission structure now to be able to say these things and then look is like a cascade where people are like, okay, apparently you cannot talk about things okay, I have some things to say yeah. When they look also just they went too far, they tighten the screws. I mean, they they really came out of heart.

And so you know, the harder they come at us, like we didn't predict when buy one, like we didn't think I would have negative effects on our business, we thought yeah probably taxes will go out, but like will just keep doing business. But then they did all these things, right? IT took a couple years to figure out that this was not like a temporary thing, like this was like a concerted campaign. No.

they were really coming. What agency specifically is involved in doing that?

Oh, I yes, I mean, they have alphabet soup. But but like C, S, C, C, radical very specifically. Uh, ftc, you know, was thread web ized something the C F T C, which is the other part of the crypto puzzle commodities futures.

If crp there's cypher that's a security there. Some forms of crypto that are security in the S C C regulates. There's other kinds of cyp du that are commodity that the c ftc regulate tes the the C F P B I mentioned earlier.

So the consumer finance protection bureau decided that they were also going to regulate AI, which they just volunteered for. Um and then you know fa the fa killed the drone industry years ago. The reason why we don't have the reason why the chinese are winning in the drone, the drown worse is because the F A may may drown illegal in the us.

Years ago. So like the F A has been a big problem. Um you know the um what is that? The f also when you say .

made drones illegal, but you can still buy drones, like what what have they done?

So legally you cannot fly a drawn in the U. S, uh, that is bound line of site if you don't have a pilot license.

wow.

Which means that you, a us. Manufacturer, you have to build a system that .

enforces that regulation. So you have handy cap, your ability. yes. So either either the U.

S. Drone needs to either not fly by online of site, which is not very useful, right, right? Or IT needs to somehow related really have customers that have a pile lenses.

China there's no such restriction um and the chinese we have because we are in a more open economy. The chinese drones you can just buy in the us. And use ever you want that technically is the user of the drawn. You're out of compliance with the law, but they did ignore that part. They just punish .

the american drama kers. Ww.

and that's why, that's why chinese on the drown market, and that's why ninety percent of the drones used by the U. S. Military and by U. S. Police search chinese made drones, which again, that translate .

terrible security risk, is a very bad .

idea because every chinese drone is both a potential surveilling platform and a potential weapon.

Oh, crime mini. yes. Well, i've seen the advancements in chinese drones, particular the a choregraphic dancers that they do in the sky where they had you see the dragon and one see if you could find that jammy chinese drag and um drone displayed like one of the largest ones they ever did. It's unbelievable how much more advance they are here.

And I will tell you the by ministration had zero interest in like working zero like just I was an absolute contempt for the idea of the U. S. R. N industry.

yeah. So let's watch this thing even go full screen on. Like this is just a grid in the sky.

This they're flying up together. They did won. That was at night.

Just image gus .

cries coming at you.

right?

Well, we get to see some of that.

Ukraine, yeah.

hundred percent. yeah. Seen those suicide drones. I look this, that is that drag in the sky is drones.

So i'll let up. Mean, that is unbelievable, even as a puff of fire coming out of its mouth. That's incredible.

If they send that at a football stadium during a game with grenades on those around.

oh my god, do don't even put that out there. Don't put that on Ricky. Bobbi, look at that heart in the sky with a heart beat.

This is insane that, yes, it's so incredible. Yes, they had a little one like that that played over the M. M.

M. Concert at when I was at koto. The circle to the americans here, there is giant eem concepts like a one hundred thousand people there.

And then afterwards, the head like drones in the sky that did little dances. Chinese, I bet I think they were. They weren't like this, though they did, didn't not, wasn't at that level.

And I believe, enjoy the show. You can. That's crazy. yeah. That's a chinese thing only.

yeah. But, but D, O, D, in the soldiers in the field is very common. Soldiers, just soldiers, Normal, Normal. Grant soldiers in the field Carrier on in their backpacks, because they want to be .

able to see what's around the building.

are up on the roof. yeah. And I SE and every single one of them.

and oh my god, anytime they want is the trumpet administration on this.

They're very they're where I don't know what somewhere in the priority order, the things they're dealing. But they are yes, they are well aware of this. And well, it's the kind of thing I would hope that gets attention.

Yeah well, this is the bricks respect to the U A P thing because if that's what we're seeing, we're seeing super soph tik ted chinese drones that Operate on some novel propulsion system that's not good. And that could be because they put ridiculous regulations on dw manufacturers in america. Yeah, that's right. And they ve got way ahead of us.

That's right. Yeah, we these are bad.

These are bad. These are bad. You're just opening my eyes to this. I always had this rose color glasses view of our society versus the chinese society.

Our society more open so people can innovate and come up with new startup s on these crazy ideas because of so much freedom in amErica enough to have deal with the government being involved in every business. Silly me, well, silly me. I was wrong.

So this is my, my argument. I make geopolitical N, D, C, which is to to, if you imagine that the twenty first centuries going to be at, let's a contest between the U. S.

In china, the same way that in the twenty century was the U. S. First is the soviet union, and the contest competition called war, maybe hot war, yeah like that, that the the basic, fundamental kind of geopolitical puzzle of the twenty first century. Then you want to think very clearly about the strength, weaknesses of both yourselves and about the other side. And then as you think about how to beat the other guy, is the answer to become more like them .

or more like yourself? Maxim waters made that argument when IT comes to social digital scores and corrupt currency in a centralized digital currency. About that, in order to compete with china.

we have to come .

up with a centralized visual currency, which, which in my view.

is exactly the rocks. Thing is, I heard that I was like, that's a terrible with, because the china system has its problems, like they terrorize zed, their own population directly. They do impose the social credit course.

They they do all the stuff. And then, by the way. Here's here's something we have going for us which is the chinese system has turned on capitalism um the children pain is not a capitalist and there is a broad base crackdown.

Private business in china to the point in front of my business, one of leaving investors in china, he said, every single chinese tech, or has he left china or want to leave china, and they are trying to get their money out and they all trying to get their families out because it's now too dangerous to run a tech company in china because the government might just snatch you, like literally physically satch you at any point yeah and you may not come back and then every chinese to has a political officer of the chinese communist party sitting down the hall who can come in and override your decisions anytime he wants to. And by the way, and regular a training, this is a great thing. Okay, so you're sitting.

You're the co of a company with fifty billion revenue in one hundred thousand employees. And this guy from the cc becomes an impulse. You and you sit in the conference room down the hall for seven hours, uh, getting a ground on how well you understand Marks, right? So like that actually happens, right? It's a political officer and that's the kind of thing that happens to union and that's the kind of thing that happens in china.

So you'd rather be A C, E O in the U. S. Than in china for sure, as long as the U. S. System actually stays open, where you can actually get all the benefits of all the power of all these incredibly, some more people building companies and building products. But and that's why this administration freak us out so much is because I felt like they were trying .

to become like china. So I was not nearly as aware as I should have been about the all these things you're saying. I didn't know this. I didn't know about the banks, and I certainly didn't know that they were cracking down on AI at the same way they crack down on social media.

The everything was very alarming. We had we had meetings this spring that were the most alarming meetings i've ever been in where they were taking us .

through their plans.

And IT was a about basically full of government control like thing there. There will be a small number of large companies that they regulate, control by the government. They told us, they told us.

They just say, don't even art, don't even start start up. So don't even bother like there's just no way there's no way that they can succeed. There's no way that were going to permit that to happen.

yeah. So this is already over. It's going to be two or three companies and we're just them and and that's that like this is finished.

Oh my god, no, when you leave a meeting like that, what do you do?

You go into the trump.

Oh, my god.

and I get like i'll tell you, like you like like because i'm going to get a lot. The flight i'm going to get for this is he's just a crazy whenever right here but like I was a democrat was like A D I was a demi supported book klin n and ninety two, I supported clinton and ninety ninety six I supported gore, who, and very well, in two thousand I knew the dancer. I supported him or four, I support obama. I supported Hillary. And sixteen, like I was like a democrat in good standing um and then um .

you completely out in the cocktail circuit now like you like to hang out with people.

So there is now this is actually true. There is now two kinds of dinner parties. And so looking valley, they if they fractured cleanly and half um there's the ones where every person there believes every single thing that was in the new york times that day um which by the way is often very different than whatever was in the new york times six months ago but everybody has fully up their views for that day and that's what they talk about the I have no longer invited to those nor do I want to go to them and then there's the other kind which is, you know David's acts and like all these guys and all of these people and you just this growing universe, it's a microcosm was happening more brother in the culture, which is like let's actually get together and talk .

about things and have right but it's so much more confident when is you guys are not the my pillow guy not an obviously no disrespect my to the my pillow guy but you don't saying like I want people that are smarter than me to be saying these things. That's what helps IT helps when you say what this person actually knows they are talking about. They're very well informed and they understand the repercussions.

They understand like what's been coming their way. And these people like yourself, that can speak about the plans are laying out what they were trying to do with the A I fuck. And terrifying, that should terrify everybody.

Where you have bureau craters are now control of potentially the most, the biggest agent of change in the history of the human race potentially. And you're going to let work. The people that can't even baLance to the budget, people they don't know what the fuck is going on that that sounds insane.

yes. And I look my hope I think I think under clinton ore, I think that all of this very different. I mean, they are with the internet very differently. The current cropper dealing with.

well, IT was very different.

IT was very different. But also they were much more content, particularly were much more understanding that you. So they used to be the thing I call the deal with the capital deal.

And the deal was, you could be, this is what I was. You could be a tech founder. You could start private company.

You could create a tech product. Everybody loves you. IT was great, glowing press coverage to the whole thing.

You take the company public. IT employs a lot of people, creates lot of jobs. You make a lot of money.

At some point, you cash out, and then you done IT all the money to charity. And everybody thinks your hero, right? Just great, right? And this is how I ran for a very long time.

And this was the deal. This was the deal. This was clinic with hundred percent support of that. There were hundred percent prop alm in this way, in hundred percent protect, and actually did a lot to Foster this kind of environment.

And basically what happened is that the last fifteen years of so the democrats, culminating in this, basically broke every part of that deal for people in my work, like every single part of that was shattered, right? Where are just like technology became presentative vely evil, right? And like, you know, if you a business person, you were presented vely a bad person.

And the technology was presumably had bad effects, and not that thought. And then they were gonna gully you and try to kill you and wash you. And then the kicker was, philanthropy came evil.

And this is a real culture change in the last five years that I hope will reverse now, which is for one to be now, is a dirty word on the left, because it's the private person choosing to give away the money is opposed to the government choosing way to give money. So I gave you the ultimate case. Here's a right radicalized in this topic.

C, so you'll recall some years back, mark zuker burg and his wife, salla, you know, have a time of money in facebook talk, and they created a not profit entity, uh, calls chance like a register ative, which which the original mission was to literally cure all disease. And this could be like, you know, two hundred billion dollars going to cure all disease, right? It's like, big deal.

They said they committed to twenty ninety nine percent of their assets to this, to this new foundation. They get brutal attacked from the left. And the attack was.

they're only doing IT to save money on taxes.

Now, basic mathematics, you don't give away nine, nine percent of your money to save money, to save money on taxes, right? But IT was a vicious attack. IT was like a very, very aggressive attack.

And in the fundamental reason for the attack was, how dare they treat that money like it's their own? How dare they decide goes instead, tax rates for billionaire should go to ninety something percent. The government should take the money and the government should allocated. And that would be the morally proper correct thing to do.

What do you think is the root of that .

kind of thinking? Utopian, utopian collectivism and its socialist, that socialism, yeah, it's is the core idea. Socialist like the core idea is this is a radical egg alete arianism.

Everybody should be exactly the same. All outcomes should be exactly the same. Everything should be completely fair. Red and some root of IT has to be an envy, of course, envy, resentment. Yeah, need to have this great term I called recently ment um and it's like turbo charge resentment and so the way he describes as a sentiment is a envy um resentment and bitterness that is so intense that IT causes an inversion of values and the things that used to be good become bad and the things that used to be bad .

to become good right? And that's how becomes bad becomes .

bad because IT should be the state Operating on behalf of the people as a whole, or handing out the money out the individual I .

not aware of that blow back, I would have loved to read .

some of .

those comments. I would like to go to their .

page and see what else they comment. Give example. Here is another radha. B worked very closely for a long time, and by way, in red way in door camera, like very much, not on the same page on these things um if you should work in the clinton administration you know died the world democrat he wrote this book of linen about twelve years ago um this sort of feminist manifesto and IT basically and the theses of lennon was that women in their lives and careers could put lineen SHE said what he observed in a lot of meetings was the man were leaning in to the table and sitting like in front and then the women were like leaning back and waiting to be called on SHE said that women should leaning and IT became a metaphor for her. For women should like leaning on their careers.

They should like aggressively advocate for themselves to get like raises and promotions do like do they should basically women should basically become more aggressive in the workplace and and then there for perform Better and so is like IT was a manifesto of women basically saying be more confident, be more certain, be more aggressive, be more successful um and I I read the draft the book when he was writing at the night I said you realized you ve writing the right way manifesto. right? And he looks me like I lost my mind.

right? She's a lot like, left, he is like, what mean? Like, this book is a statement that women have agency, right? This smoke is a statement that the things that women choose to do will lead to Better result.

That's what people believe on the right. On the left of people believe, is that women are always, always in our victims. Wa, and and woman doesn't succeed in the car because she's being discriminated. Ted guests. And so I said, I said, I predicted when this book comes out, right, when is going to think it's great and you're going to get to like the left is going to come at you because you're you're violating the fundamental principle of of of the left, which is anybody who does less well as the victim, which in that case, exactly what happened. The, by the way, the reviews are all by women, and they tour into her and I can, every major publicity, completely telling there that they have all this agency, because every, this is denial of sexism, right? Is denial of impression.

wow. Because imagine if a man wrote a book like that for men.

well, but an .

bro, lean bro, wow, that's crazy going to attain for that.

So again, version to version, which is like advocating on your own behalf and choosing to do things.

make was her reaction to that low.

But I would say he was, I don't want to speak for her, but he was not.

Please also be sure that you're correct. Did you have a follow up conversation with her? I got make that.

So SHE was in the, but the answer he was her, her world view of how these things work was from a different, I was from the clinton gera, right in which you could, in which you talk, that you could talk like yes. And by the time the books came out, I was already into the second obama term, heading right. And the walk stuff started. And then at that point, you could no like to say things like that and everything got classified is very hard, hard verses them, oppresses versus a press?

No kind of that. And so it's such a contrast to what we hoped would happen when obama would be president. My thought was okay, like there's still some racism, but clearly, if you are the bad as small, the fucker, you can get ahead, but you can win that the country will vote for you, that someone happened no and you .

can want to get why .

you're twice and be like i've always said, up until i've lost a lot of respect forum from some of the things that he said during this election cycle because I think they got desperate and they just resorted to actual lize. And I thought this is crazy to see him lying, especially the very fine people hoax. And we played the video back and forth of what obama said, he said, and what he actually said.

And it's pretty shocking because he is very explicit, you know, he saying, not White nationalist, not neo nazis, they should be condemned. He says very clearly that's not talking about talking about people are protesting the taking down the statue and when you see a garlic obama do that is such a bomber because he was the guy for me that was like our best spokesman. He was like, here's a guy that came from a single family, our single parent household.

He wasn't some rich, entitled kid who was given everything in life. He's his brilliant speaker. He's like his handsome.

He represents like what we're hoping for. We're hoping for a color blinds society just treats people in the merit of who they are. And anyone can SHE even look, here is he made IT. And then all sudden, identity politics goes through the fuck and roof, and victim mentality becomes the thing that people choose to sideways and IT because kids real weird for a long time.

Yeah, that's right. That's right, guys, that I hope I can find the .

way back about this lady still on team cma.

Yeah.

SHE got a few lessons out there, but not all of them.

This is, you know, you've been a lifelong democrats. This is if you've been a life online democrat and if that if that is in this court, a lot of people's value systems and it's it's a real chAllenge. My parent, when you're move there are all goes in direction yeah and there's you know right you can you you can choose to follow you can choose to follow into you know the crazy version of or you can choose to say you what like i'm still not going to suit size, at least for my team to come back yeah the richest guy congressman in in, in queens, I think, are the blocks actually actually started on, everybody thought was to be a for a lefty because he's gay, he's black. He's let you know he was like, he was like, at least associated with the squatter ly on.

And he's like one of the guys, the democratic party, who has now stood up and he been doing this in public for last two weeks, saying, clearly, we have to get back to sense, like, we have to get back to common sense, we have to get back to moderation, and we have to have more enforcement. We have to have real. We can't have crime in the states.

We have to have a border, you know, we have we have to get with democrats, have to get back to moderation and sense. And so he is hoping to lead the party. That's great to that. I think he's we support him and I think he's like a really he's a very impressive guy. So there are people like any Young and very energetic, you know he is very great future, but that's the kind of person who could lead the party.

Well, the big niche on shift was when dickinson, Doris calmly and everybody cheered. If there's not a Better example than that, please tell me what IT is because that one was fucking nuts. Like dick Cheney was always the hard right, like during the bush administration, all the lefties looked at him like that was said he was the profit teamer.

He was the the manipulator, he was the guy pull in the stinging. He was the C. E.

O of Albert that came. The whole thing was so crazy. And to see how dick change, just north coma. And everybody is like, yeah, look, dick chinese are on our side. Like what the fucker you guys talking about, this is this is the best shift of IT.

right? Yeah, right, right. That's right. All right. All of the sun, all of a sudden the end of the site is said all the sun were, it's like you because I know the democrat used to be the antiwar party.

Yes, they were the antiwar party for a very long time. Yes, yeah. And you.

except back when they were trying to keep slavery .

in that just part of the problem.

the shift as well. But the shift of the republicans from back in the day being Abraham lincoln and trying to get rid of slavery, and the democrats fighting to keep IT like this, these weird gal swings, they happen. And, you know, we're still attached.

The idea of being a democrat is like being a clinton democrats, where we're in this weird sort of denial of what the ideology actually stands for verses well, how we think of ourselves when we say, i'm a democrats, I am a good person, you know, I support civil rights, women's rights, ba ba ba ba down the line, i'm a democrat. And if you go against that, will now you're against all these things, you know, to be inherently important for society. Yeah, that's right.

They got you the rope. There is some crazy thing, important war. And then there's a big faction, right? There's a big free paleo versus support israel. The left always supported israel. And then also there's a free pass time movement which divides the left even further.

Here there's a, is a book written some yours back up by the skorn part. And that is, why are you liberal? right? He was the right.

He was right when you were very important jewish thinker, h thinker of like in the sixty, seventy, eighty. And he's like, basic, is like basic. He had the species that, like these jewish beral voters in the u like, basic are voting against. Ultimately, they are voting for the wrong team. Because if they don't understand, basically, is that this is sort of a path, number one, two antisemitic so much as what's happened, but number two, the basically you're never gonna long term support for israel on the left because israel, the basic concept of israel violates, know the idea. Israel is like literally religious ethnos ate.

And that's like .

currently writing idea.

not a left. And like the left doesn't like a former special is.

yes, very, very capable. Yes, give children a fs, exactly. And so you know, he argued dynamic like whatever twenty years ago. He's like this has had an direction, and but know the argument was ignored at the time. And then, you know, at least a lot of my gerish friends after october seventh, and they were completely horrified.

Ed, you know, to find out, for example, the D I was actually enter jewish right, which is what everybody learned with the scandals at the universities, right? right? And it's like, no, there's two ways of looking at that. One is, oh my god, the D I is antigone. Therefore, we need to add truth to the D I score card, right?

But when we saw that the heads of harvard and was IT was IT yield, no IT was hard. And t that that's right. That was just so in everyone's face. And so bananas. And then we saw .

that every right. And then when we saw, is that the same sort radi ze left IT actually slide, and not just antiethical m and not just antiethical el, but also pro I, an ultimately protectors. St know the new chronic L G B T H.

right? But there is a bunch of the stuff in there. Now is two spirit a boy, really? Because.

of course, and so so like I bring IT, I bring that up just to take a question, just as an example of it's the kind of realignment a lot of jewish americans now are having a kind of rethink fundamental questions about political structure and alliances, who they should be part of and who they shouldn't part of. So I think your point, I think like the whole country is going through.

I think we're going through the first like profound political realignment probably sense one thousand nine hundred and sixty yeah which is which is when everything shifted beat up between Johnson and nixon um in the south. I think we're going through like the most profound version of that right now. And I think it's it's something like the multiethnic working class coalition.

Um you know they came together around trump um you know basically again against this sort of super exaggerated elite ite plus under class structure that the democrats to delve themselves IT just turns out there's just a lot more people middle um and so I think by the way, including like a lot, a lot, a lot by vote trump mp. Yes, all of the identity groups that democrat relied on all these years are a union vote. Is is for trump. S.

i'm sure you ve seen the dump, the map, the electoral map of california? yes. Twenty twenty four and twenty twenty, yes, in contrast, is a crazy red wave that's going to, across the most states, red.

Now those of us on the coast are going to get .

pushed into the ocean. yes. Well, I think you know maybe the other way what you're talking about, the hopeful way the democratic wake up and come up with a more reason. Well, I mean, there's obviously clear cultural push back on all these crazy, crazy issues include, mean, like the giant pushed back from women, about biological men competing against women. I mean, this is a giant one where women are.

Cy, listen, we create a title nine for a reason like we want women sports to be for women you you can't have for mentally ill men that think that they can be able to just decide there are women and compete against women, which is what IT is in a lot of places, you don't even have to get tested. There's not like some sort of a hormonal protocols, just like it's just what your identity is was is just not. And that's one of the things that I think a lot of people on the left are having a really hard time justifying.

Because how, how, how can you deny a victim group, right? You in in the full version of that extreme version that ology you can? Y any way you cannot deny the complaint?

M would also comes with this weird cavet where you have to deny the existence of perverts. Because a pervert, all they have to do is say, I identify a woman thrown on a wig, and I can go hang around the women's room and no one could say anything. Well, you've you've embowed and empowered one of the the worst groups in society that we've always protected women from, and you have to pretend they don't exist.

If you just want to base IT solely on identity, especially like a self described identity, he just decide. And then that's IT. And you know, I mean, their states that have that now with prisoners that all prisoner has to do is identify with being a woman.

And you are now housed in women's prisons, california, forty seven of them when the last time I looked at IT, and there's hundreds of are waiting, unlike a waiting less to try to get in. So you have women who, you know, especially if you're someone was dealing with, if you've ever been raped or sexually abused, and now you have to share space with a man who might be a fucked and pervert. And some of these men even have some crimes that are along those lines that there are G, L.

four. It's crazy. I mean, canada the worst at IT. There's a bunch of different examples of these type of people getting to female prisons. And it's just it's insanity.

And I think the left rejects that too, for the most part, is the sensible version of the left that is like, hey yeah and pro gay rights yeah pro women's rights, some provo ride, some pro choice and process I warm up. But also you can't let cycles just put on a fucking and dress and hang out in women's rooms just because we want to be kind like that's not. So there has to be some and then there's legitimate trans women.

How do you make the test? What you clear? We have have a fucking conversation.

And if you don't allow that conversation to take place, like if you go to blue sky and you tie band, there are only two gender. You're band right there. People done IT.

There's a bunch. People, we've done IT. It's fun. It's fun. They have like theyve create a little socks, pop tic cow and they says some shit. That should have been a reasonable thing to say just twenty years ago. Yeah well, you make me hope for mark.

You do you do because you you let things out in like a really well thought out way that is not hyperbolic and you you're making last senso ungar. We talked, I feel Better, good, fantastic. I think the world does.

Do I really do? I may. I ve talked to a lot of people, even people that are democracy. I feel Better that trump on every day.

IT feels Better. I just like that. No, IT feels .

like just things .

are opening up. Its binding.

This is kind of actually hope and change, yes. This is actually yes. IT feels xy and turn yes. Well, thank you very much. Michael, really appreciate you.

Tell everybody sub how social. Uh, my my self stack, google me. Oh right, ask plexi. Oh right, ask ChatGPT. And it'll .

deny that. No, you will.

We yeah don't know that if the company .

now thank very much.