Inside Syria’s security apparatus by a journalist once held
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Wailing men and women examine disfigured bodies using the light from their cell phones They desperately search a darkened hospital morgue for their loved ones Meanwhile, emaciated men and women with torn clothing and dirt-caked faces spill out onto the streets Some hug loved ones in tears These have become the familiar sights and sounds from Syria this week after Bashar al-Assad's regime was swept aside by rebels

With the ending of a dictatorship that lasted decades, thousands of prisoners are free. The brutal picture of what happened during their captivity is only beginning to be understood by the world. On this special episode of Reuters World News, we speak to one of our own journalists who was arrested by the Syrian security police in 2011. We find out what it was like to have a reporting assignment turn into an interrogation

the shattered humanity he saw inside Syria's security apparatus. And now, to witness the regime topple. I'm Tara Oakes in Liverpool.

A warning to our listeners that some of you may find the details of this interview distressing with references to torture and abuse. My guest today is Suleiman Khalidi. Suleiman is our chief correspondent for Jordan and Syria. Last weekend, he was one of the first journalists in the world to report that Bashar al-Assad's regime had crumbled. But he wasn't in the country. Suleiman had been expelled from Syria back in 2011 after being arrested by the secret police.

Hey Suleiman, thank you so much for joining us today. So take us back to 2011. You'd worked for Reuters years ahead of this Syria assignment. How did you end up getting sent there? I was assigned by the editors to go to Darha, where anti-government riots protests were starting.

which were met with the security forces firing on peaceful protesters who were actually protesting at the arrest of young, basically teenagers, who had written graffiti on the walls calling for the downfall of Assad.

And it sort of spiraled and there was a protest that was called by civic organizations and the residents of Daraab to call for the authorities to release these young kids from prison.

And it actually escalated. There were reports coming that the Syrian army was bringing reinforcements and they were firing on protesters, what have you. And Daraa is actually literally a two-hour drive from Haman, almost. So I just, me and the driver, we took a taxi and we crossed the border and we were there.

But we were there later in the evening when things had subsided that I actually checked into a hotel in Daraa itself, the city, where a few hours before there was shooting of protesters and actually I think two or three people had been killed amongst them. So after that first night, what was it like at first being there reporting on these protests?

There was a tense calm. We thought that it was going to basically be under control because this was Syria under al-Assad, where protests were usually forcefully clamped down on, and we thought that that was the end of it. So I was actually, the next day, I was preparing to leave back to Amman because things appeared normal, but

But some of the residents and the contacts I had in Dara'a had told me to stay at least for the funerals of the protesters who were killed by security forces. So I went there and actually that's where it started escalating.

And, you know, there were thousands of people who appeared at the cemetery calling for the downfall on the regime. And that's when they were also again met with fire, with bullets. And it escalated. So I decided then not to go back to the hotel because the intelligence were there. I stayed with residents who protected me. And I was able to cover the unfolding of events.

the protests, the early beginnings of what was the Syrian conflict, the cradle of the revolutionaries, the anti-Assad protesters called it. And this escalation, this beginning, this was in the wake of

the so-called Arab Spring, ousting of dictators in Tunisia and in Egypt. Did it start to feel like this could be the end for the Assad regime in Syria back then? It didn't initially because Syrians at the time would never have ever thought

of that regime that was as pervasive and brutal with such a pervasive security would actually fall. So, I mean, at the time, it actually started by protests against the governor of Daraa calling for his downfall, and then it actually escalated and they started emulating the chants of the Arab uprising calling for the downfall of the regime. But initially, the first few days, it was more of a popular uprising that was starting to unfold.

And you had other parts of Syria also that were waging peaceful protests at the time, calling for democratic change. Can you tell us about that moment of them finding you on the street? Did you have any idea what was going on? I mean, I realised that moment that I had actually been arrested and that I did not for a sec, I didn't know what the future held for me.

because I had heard a lot tonight of how Syria stood out, how Syria was very different from any other Arab state in the brutality and the repressiveness of its security forces.

Suleiman was taken by two plainclothes security officers who put him in an unmarked car, taking him to an intelligence facility in the heart of Damascus, known only as Makabarat, a colloquial Arabic term for the secret police, where he was held, beaten and interrogated for four days.

Suleiman, after your release in 2011, you wrote for Reuters about what you had heard and seen during your detention. We'll put a link for pod listeners in the description. In it, you talk about the human degradation you witnessed of your fellow prisoners. Can you tell us about that? It was glimpses that I, the voices I heard of inmates who were being tortured and

Being dragged, I was in a solitary prison. In moments when prison wardens would open the door to throw in a small piece of bread. But mostly it was the human anguish that I heard at night by whom I would assume were people who were being tortured.

Beyond the suffering you could hear all around you, would you be able to talk about what you yourself endured there? I was tortured in different ways. I was interrogated at first and then I was beaten. I was put, I was, they used electric shock.

shocks on me and various other forms of torture after interrogating me. But I was resilient enough because during a reporting stint in my early years in Reuters, I was in Kuwait and I had met a lot of torture victims. And the ability to switch off is something that sometimes people who have not been subjected to torture do not realize that you are

There is that system within human beings where they can actually close the circuits

within their body, where in fact pain, they can effectively feel pain after a certain, it's like almost an electricity circuit that you can bring down. And I believe that that was one of the factors that helped me to endure this. Thank goodness you were released. How did it feel when you were released and you managed to leave Syria?

I was lucky, to be honest, because I had interviewed the King of Jordan and Queen Rania years before and I was a prominent journalist. And it was their intervention with Assad and his wife that actually saved me. And that was the reason, because I only stayed for four days. Contacted yesterday, Jordan's royal court did not comment on its role.

And this is all after having just gone there, just initially what you thought was one day, one protest in Dera. How did you feel when you finally got home after this? I felt that I was reborn again. I mean, there are very few people who actually come or released or even come alive after going to these mains.

Security branches, headquarters in Syria. So I was, I considered really myself to have had another life, a new lease of life, and that I was really reborn again and I was very grateful. The formal reason Syrian authorities gave Reuters for Soleiman's detention at the time was that he lacked the proper work permits.

Syria's government and President Bashar al-Assad consistently rejected accusations of torture and extrajudicial killings during the civil war that the United Nations said claimed hundreds of thousands of lives. Suleiman says the assertion that he needed work permits was untrue. Prior to his arrest, he regularly went to Syria on assignment and says he was accredited with Syria's Ministry of Information and was on a permanent list of press invertees to cover official events.

A spokesperson for Reuters says the news agency is deeply committed to freedom of the press. Journalists must be free to report the news in the public interest without fear of harassment or harm, wherever they are.

And how about today? Have you had to deal with any lasting effects of your experience? When I look at the images of people in the first few hours after the downfall of Assad and the release of inmates from these various detention centres, for a split second I thought I could have been one of these people.

if I was lucky, if I had been lucky enough to have survived. So I was, again, I felt very sad, but also very grateful that I actually was one of the very few who survived with my mental sanity and my well-being. And just this past week, these 10 days, the world generally seems startled by this rapid advance from the rebels and

Assad flying to Russia. Were you as startled as everyone else? How did it feel seeing that news break? I was, to be honest, there's still a sense of disbelief that I share with many Syrians who just still have not actually come to terms with it. It was bizarre that night Assad had fallen.

I was on duty with my colleagues. It was me, ironically, out of the small team who were actually that night. I was there calling two people who actually confirmed. You said, yes, Assad had left Damascus. And I was shaking, you know, when I was typing the snap.

You know, almost, I couldn't believe what I was writing. We were lucky, we won the timings by a great, I sort of pride myself in hopefully the fact that we were the first, Reuters was the first to bring the news of his downfall. And when you see Reuters,

not just the prisoners, but the families searching for missing prisoners. And how do you feel seeing those images and knowing what it's like in there? It saddens me that the world

that it took so long for this to end. And when I look at the families who know that their sons and daughters have perished, but they're just looking for just one material piece, for even a piece of paper, proof of something or the other, or even live in the hope that they might still be alive. Do you think that these images

images everyone has seen, but also the reputation you were talking about before of already this reputation for brutality of the Assad regime. Do you think those sort of memories will shape Syria's new future? Yes, of course they will. I'm hopeful that Syria will tread the path of countries that have found a path in reconciliation away from revenge and retribution.

Bashar al-Assad has not delivered any public remarks since he fled to Russia after the uprising. Reuters has reported that in a call with Iran's president, he claimed that the revolt was part of an effort to redraw the region by the West, echoing his view of the revolt as a foreign-backed conspiracy. The main rebel commander says that he will dissolve the security forces of the former regime. He vows to close its prisons and hunt down anyone involved in torture or killing of detainees.

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Thank you so much to Suleiman for sharing his story and expertise on the region with us. There's a link in the description to his account of his experience from 2011. You can read more on the developing story from Syria on Reuters.com or the Reuters app. Reuters World News is produced by Jonah Green, Gail Issa, Sharon Reich-Garson, David Spencer and Christopher Wall-Jasper.

Our senior producers are me, Tara Oakes and Carmel Crimmins. Our executive producer is Lila De Creta. Engineering, sound design and music composition are all by Josh Sommer. We'll be back on Monday with our daily headline show. Make sure to follow us on your favourite podcast player or download the Reuters app.