Protesters in Georgia are worried about Russia
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This is the sound of fireworks being shot at police in Tbilisi, the capital of Georgia. There have been protests there for days. Riot police have been accused of beating up protesters and journalists and using water cannon and tear gas. Hundreds of people have been arrested. Georgia is a small country that borders Russia and it's been trying to join the European Union for years. But a few days ago, its ruling party, Georgian Dream, said that it's putting negotiations with the EU on hold.

At the same time, critics say Georgia is moving closer to Russia, although the ruling party denies this. A fifth of Georgia's territory is already under Russian military occupation in two breakaway regions. So in this episode, you're going to hear what's been happening in Georgia and how some young people protesting there feel. We're fighting for our future. We're fighting for our

Georgia and we're fighting for our place to EU because we definitely deserve it. I'm Hannah Gelbart and this is What in the World from the BBC World Service.

Let's find out more now from the BBC's Rehan Dimitri, who is in Tbilisi, Georgia's capital. Hello. Hello, Hannah. Hello. So talk me through why these protests have been happening. Well, it all began with the prime minister of Georgia, Irakli Kabukid, on Thursday, November the 28th, making a statement in which he said that he was going to

But his government decided to no longer take any steps to advance Georgia's accession to the European Union. Georgia is currently a candidate country. That status was granted back in December 2023.

And that status came with a list of recommendations from the European Union, nine recommendations which Georgian government was supposed to fulfill or at least start fulfilling those recommendations. Georgia's integration into the European Union is written down in the country's constitution.

And because for decades now, several generations of Georgians, they have been striving for their country to move away from its past, from its Soviet past, from Russia, and move towards a more kind of democratic world where human rights are respected and respected.

just with different norms. And that has been, you know, the dream of the nation. So when the prime minister made this announcement, it really hit people into their hearts. And that's why we've seen so many young people, especially coming out and protesting. They believe that by making this announcement, the government is...

not only turning its back on Europe, but also somehow acting in Russia's interests. So is that what the protesters want? They want Georgia to be part of the EU? Absolutely, absolutely. Most of the protests that happen in this country, they are one way or another about Georgia's future in Europe. This is the fight for democracy and fight for Georgia's place in Europe.

And those people who are protesting now, they believe that their government is not doing anything to move this country closer to Europe. On the contrary, it's doing everything to sabotage Georgia's chances to join the European Union. Let's hear from someone who has been protesting now. Nini is 21 and lives in Georgia. Do I want Georgia to be part of the EU? The answer is very easy. Of course, I would love to see Georgia in the EU.

Firstly, because it is our historical place, we have been fighting for it since the very beginning and definitely deserve it. EU means a lot of opportunities for young people, especially students like me. As in 1999, as Rob Trania said, I'm Georgian and therefore I'm European. I believe me and my generation will make it possible. Just watch us. Cutting ties to Europe and slowly taking us to Russia is a big deal to Georgia right now.

It means we will stay all alone and the situation will get much worse in Georgia. And I think young people will leave the country, even right now immigration is already a very big deal. And I don't even want to imagine what might happen in the future.

Rehan, in these protests that you have been covering, there have been reports of violence towards protesters and journalists. What's been happening? Every evening after 8pm, people have been gathering here in Tbilisi, outside the country's parliament.

There are no speeches by any political leaders or opposition leaders. There's no stage, there's no music, nothing. It's just people creating a lot of noise. That is their chosen tactic. Also, protesters, they have used a lot of fireworks. They've been launching fireworks against the right police. And in response...

The riot police, they've been responding with water cannons, with tear gas, excessive amounts of tear gas and pepper spray. I mean, I was there when I was broadcasting. I couldn't be right where it was all happening because there are difficulties with the mobile phone coverage. So I had to stand maybe a few hundred meters away, but still.

I could sense and feel. And there was at one point when people were pushed by the riot police and there was this horrible smell in the air. I had to put the gas mask on. A lot of people are coming to these protests with their gas masks, with helmets.

because they know that there will be violence. So what's been happening after police pushed those protesters, then riot police would be chasing protesters individually and in many instances beating them up. And it appears that somehow the police were targeting journalists specifically because...

A lot of journalists, they wear vests that identify them as journalists or they're holding microphones or cameras. So it's clear that they're there, you know, as journalists in their professional capacity. More than a dozen journalists were badly physically assaulted.

And human rights lawyers are saying that most of the people who were arrested, they have some kind of injuries in their heads or eyes. So mainly on their face, on their faces. What have the police and government said about it all?

Well, there have been some contradictory statements coming from the country's prime minister. He was the one who announced on November the 28th that the government made this decision to put the EU accession talks on hold.

And then several days later, he told, you know, to one of our colleagues from the BBC, he said, no, it's a lie. It's just the opposition media that are kind of, you know, broadcasting this lie. So he backed down on his own words. And that is incredibly confusing.

The Prime Minister has said it was opposition groups and not the police that had carried out what he called systemic violence. There have been protests in Georgia for months now. In May, there were huge protests before a controversial law, the Foreign Agents Bill, was brought in. And if you want to find out more about that, we have talked about it on a previous episode of What in the World. There were also protests after the country's disputed elections in October when Georgian Dream claimed victory despite allegations of fraud.

Georgian Dream denies those allegations and the party does have a lot of support. In fact, the country's constitutional court has thrown out a lawsuit filed by the opposition alleging interference in October's elections. But why are these protests so important to young people? Here's Nutze, who is 22, and she was also on our last episode about Georgia.

I would say that it is the number one issue that every Georgian faces every day. And I want to make this very clear that this is a conscious choice that

that we Georgian people make every day to come out in the streets despite the threats of terrible violence from the police or being detained and never finding justice for yourself. We still come out every day prepared and determined to fight for our future, which will be European and democratic and never Russian. Rehan, tell me about the relationship between Georgia and Russia and the influence that Russia has there.

Well, there are no diplomatic relations between the country because there was a war in 2008 and 20% of Georgia's internationally recognized territory is occupied by Russian troops. So therefore, not much is happening. But in the economy, a lot is happening because this government, which is now in power, Georgian Dream,

They refused to impose sanctions on Russia following Russia's full invasion of Ukraine. So they sell a lot of wine to Russia. And in fact, Georgia became one of the main countries through which goods transit via Georgia and enter Russia because they share a land border.

But so you would never hear the government officials are saying, oh, yes, we want friendship with Russia. They don't say it, but their action is.

demonstrates that they are trying to appease Russia and also the introduction of the legislation on the foreign agents and later in September there was another piece of legislation anti-LGBT, the so-called family values law

which is also very similar to the one that exists in Russia. And I would say perhaps one of the also main factors is that the founder of the ruling party and its honorary chairman and arguably the most powerful man in Georgia right now,

Bidzina Ivanishvili is his name. He's the country's richest man. He made this fortune in Russia in the 1990s. So people suspect that he still has interests with Russia or that he's somehow under the influence of the Russian state. Therefore, there's no trust.

towards this government on behalf of those people who are protesting. But saying that, there is a part of society here who believe this government. They have truly supported them in October parliamentary elections and they agree with their policies. People are saying that this ruling party, Georgian Dream, they're becoming increasingly authoritarian too.

That's right. People are saying this, but also there was the European Parliament resolution, which was adopted on November the 28th, the same day the Prime Minister made the statement. And some have suggested that the statement about halting EU integration process was in response to that EU Parliament resolution. And the EU Parliament resolution said that Georgia is becoming more authoritarian and

That resolution said that elections were not free and fair back in October. It called for rerun for new elections. And it also called for targeted sanctions against Georgian officials, including Bettina Ivanović, including the country's prime minister. So in a way, it could be that the Georgian Dream government got

with that resolution because in his statement when the Prime Minister said that there won't be any more talks with the EU, he also accused the European Union, as he said, of a cascade of insults. And he said that, look,

We still want the European Union, but the demands are too high on us. And we want to become members of the EU, but with dignity. This is in his own words. And going back to that point, which I mentioned earlier about the nine conditions that the European Union gave to Georgia with the EU candidate status,

Most of those conditions are about moving this country into a more kind of, you know, it's about democratic reforms in the country, judicial reform, free and fair elections, this difficult to pronounce de-oligarchization, which means getting rid of one person who influences the entire state. And that is the case in Georgia.

So in a way, if you look at it, if the Georgian Dream government was to implement those reforms, then it would mean the end of their rule in a way. So

So this is the situation, yes. And those laws which I mentioned, the Russian-style laws on foreign influence, they are seen as being repressive and authoritarian because they specifically target civil society and they target independent media. Does all of this mean that the relationship between the EU and Georgia's government is getting more and more tense then?

Probably the lowest as they've ever been, not only with the European Union, but also with Georgia's strategic partner, the United States. And as these protests were advancing and the government's crackdown intensifying, the U.S. said that they

are also severing ties and that they will stop the strategic partnership with Georgia, to which the Georgian prime minister said, that's fine. The current administration is only temporary or we are now focusing on building ties with Donald Trump's administration in the U.S.,

I appreciate that perhaps it's not that easy to understand, but I think if we put it very, very simply, this is a small country that borders Russia and that is struggling to defend its democracy. It does not want to become, as a lot of people here say, a Russian protectorate.

And it wants to move away from that colonialism. And it wants to be part of the free world. And for them, the guarantee of that free world is the European Union, future for their country in the European Union. Rehan, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. Thank you for having me. That is it for today's episode. Thank you for joining us. This is What in the World from the BBC World Service. I'm Hannah Gelbart, and I'll see you next time.

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