Is this the end for canned hunting in South Africa?
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Visit Lisa.com to learn more. That's L-E-E-S-A dot com. Hi, guys. It's Hannah Gelbart here, and welcome to another episode of What in the World from the BBC World Service.

Today we're talking about canned lions, which are lions that are bred in captivity and they are then killed for trophy hunting or for their bones. South Africa has the largest captive lion population in the world. It's got more captive ones than wild ones and its lion farms are somewhat controversial. The government has said that it'll ban them, but it hasn't said when the ban will come into play. So today you're going to hear where the practical

of canned hunting comes from and what some South Africans think of the ban. Let's hear more now from my guest who is here with me in the studio. It's BBC Africa reporter Danai Nasticopemba. Hi. Hi. So tell me a bit about what canned hunting involves and where the practice came from. So canned hunting essentially is breeding lions for a bullet. They're essentially, you know, bred in these enclosures and

And each stage of their life cycle is exploited. So from the moment they're born, they're taken away from their mother and then taken to these petting zoos. You know, when they're cubs and they're cute, people come, tourists take pictures, post them on their Instagram. And then when they get too big, they're then moved to these enclosures, you know, for walking tours and so forth.

And so people get to walk alongside them and, again, take nice, fun, cute holiday photos. And then once they get much bigger, they're moved to hunting enclosures where, you know, hunters come, typically inexperienced hunters who simply want a trophy. And they're let off to wander listlessly in a very small space. And they're shot at close range with a gun, arrows and other...

Other weapons. So mostly the hunters are tourists coming from abroad. Yeah, typically wealthy Western foreigners. Is it just lions that are bred in this way? There are other animals, but lions are the most popular. There's the biggest demand for them, you know. Even lion farmers, when they breed them, they think, which one's going to have a big dark mane? Which one's going to have like white lions? Which one's going to have blue eyes? Because they want to push these prices up.

so they can sell them essentially kind of like a restaurant menu to these hunters who are coming to hunt them down.

are the lions bred? So it's just a constant cycle. These lionesses, you know, once they're split from their cub, again, they get pregnant, they give birth to cubs. They're split, get pregnant, give birth. And because they're trying to produce these lions at such a quick rate, there's issues with inbreeding, there's genetic defects and a plethora of other genetic issues that just create, you know,

make it very difficult for lions to have any kind of quality of life. And to be clear, is this practice legal still? It is technically legal to breed lions in South Africa. So yes, it is technically legal in South Africa. Talk me through the reasons for banning the practice. So many people want to ban lions

And now let's hear from Stephanie Carmen, who works in conservation in South Africa.

Predators are bred solely for their commercial value, whether that is for entertainment, body parts, trade or hunting, meaning that these animals exist purely for profit. Their welfare and well-being are not prioritized, and there have been numerous cases in which predators are kept in extremely inadequate living conditions. Sometimes they are inbred and neglected to the extent that injuries and diseases are left untreated.

Now conservationists all agree that the captive breeding of lions is currently not a conservation requirement since wild lion populations are actually stable in South Africa and the release of captive bred lions poses a significant concern for free roaming wild lions that are already in reserves, conflict with people and the captive breed animals themselves.

Concerns have even been raised that breeding lions in captivity for their bones, their parts and their derivatives can actually stimulate demand and in turn can increase poaching of wild lions. What do the people who are running the lion farms or running the hunting trips, what do they say in defence of this?

So some people defend it saying, no, it's part of a conservation effort. We'll release them into the wild. But once a lion is domesticated to the degree these lions are, because they're bottle fed by humans, their food comes from humans, they rely on humans for so many things, they can't be released into the wild anymore.

The South Africa Predator Association represents the hunting and breeding industry and on the issue of captive bred lions, they say that lions play a crucial role in generating income for private parks and local communities. They dispute that captive bred lions are

inbred and they point to numerous cases in quotes where captive lions have successfully been released into the wild. When it comes to conditions they say that the facilities accredited to the South African Predator Association are in quotes world class and adhere to strict rules and standards and they say that some farmers have used their profits to create in quotes lush wilderness areas. They also say that SAPA members do not raise cubs to be petted or adult lions to be exhibited and

and they'll never condone hunting drugged or tame lions. You've talked a bit about lions being hunted for trophies, but what about bones, the market for lion bones? See, this is one of the many issues that a lot of conservationists have with canned hunting. Because it's legal, it's kind of almost a front for the illegal bone operation. Even though it is legal in South Africa to export lion bones, it is legal. Why do people want lion bones? So it's...

And Southeast Asia, there's a belief that, you know, they can give you strength. They're potent. They can kind of, you know, you can have that lion energy kind of essentially. And they're also used as a front as tiger bones. So people use lion bones under the guise of tiger bones because tigers are endangered. And they kind of, you know, put a tiger bone label on a lion bone.

you know, to make more money. And they're used for other traditional medicines and herbs. And so it's part of a long culture in Southeast Asia to use these bones for, you know, various things. What is public opinion in South Africa on this issue? What do people think? So actually, a 2022 survey found that over 60% of people in South Africa were against canned hunting. So there is a bit of disgust, you know, with canned hunting.

and people would like to see an end to it. South Africa has said that it's going to shut down these captive lion farms, but that has not happened yet. What is the holdup? I mean, the holdup is the farmers' one. They don't want to let go of essentially their livelihoods. It's a profitable business. It makes millions of dollars a year.

so they don't want to let it go. And obviously, the government has said, you know, you can voluntarily leave, but they haven't provided a financial incentive for the farmers to leave. So they're thinking, why would I voluntarily leave if I'm not going to get a financial stipend? How will I survive? How will I feed my family? So there is that debate and how to properly end it in a way where, you know, the lions are taken care of. Because if we

close it immediately, what happens to the lions in these enclosures? There's 8,000 of them. There are so many lions. And as you said, they can't be released into the wild. Exactly. So there need to be so many conservation plans in place before they completely shut down these captive lion farms.

Danai, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. Now, before we go, I want to tell you about some of the other episodes we have done on What in the World. I'd recommend our episodes on why young people are leaving France for Senegal and whether we might discover alien life on Jupiter's moon. You

You can find those wherever you get your BBC podcast. And we are also now on YouTube. So you can listen to us there on the BBC World Service YouTube. I'm Henneke Elbart. This is What In The World from the BBC World Service. We'll be back with another one soon. See you then. Yoga is more than just exercise. It's the spiritual practice that millions swear by.

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