The final hours of the Assad regime
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Hi there, I'm Azadeh Mashiri. From the BBC World Service, this is The Global Story. A stunning tonne of events in Syria. After more than five decades, the Assad dynasty has ended. Bashar al-Assad preserved his power despite a civil war that gripped the country for more than ten years and killed hundreds of thousands of people.

With the help of Iran, Russia and the Lebanese Hezbollah, he fought off rebel groups made up of the jihadist extremists like Islamic State and militias supported by the US. Until now. A sudden advance by a coalition of rebel groups while Assad's allies were distracted has thrust Syria back into the spotlight and culminated in an extraordinary 24 hours.

Hayat Tahrir al-Sham, who had designated a terrorist organisation by the US and the UK, have led these groups to a startling victory over Assad rule. So how did it happen? And what does it mean for Syrians and a region already in the throes of violence and uncertainty? Well, let's look at events on Sunday with our Middle East correspondent, Lina Sinjab, who

who is part of the BBC team, the first Western journalists to get into Damascus, the capital of Syria. And Lina is also Syrian and left the country shortly after the civil war began. Lina, thanks for your time. Thank you very much for having me.

Now, Lina, I want to start in Homs because that's the last major city the rebels take on the road to the capital. And you've been living in Lebanon ever since you left the country. So what's going through your mind at this point? It was really hard to follow this very speedy operation with rebels taking city after city. But when they've reached Homs, I felt that something big is in making. And while focusing on the development on the ground, but also in the back of my head, I thought,

It's not possible that, you know, things will change. You know, it was something really, like, impossible to believe. We are the Nazism! We are the Nazism!

By the time Homs had fallen to the rebels, it was a matter of few hours and we've heard that the rebels are already in Damascus and that President Bashar al-Assad has left the country. By 4 a.m. in the morning, Homs fell to the rebels and then we had a televised statement coming from the prime minister, who is now a caretaker prime minister, Khojaly.

calling on the unity of people, announcing that he is ready to look after the government institutions until the people of Syria decide which government to form and who's going to rule. And just soon after that, the same kind of statement came from the leader of the rebels, the Islamist rebel, the leader of the Hayat Tahrir al-Sham, saying that all government institutions should be protected.

protected and will be managed by the current prime minister until there is a new government in place. So, Lina, it sounds like what was already a very fast pace of events suddenly speeds up even more. The rebels continue their advance from Homs.

And as they reach Damascus, Assad is gone and the prime minister is talking about working with them in a caretaking government. It's a matter of hours that, you know, basically the regime has fallen. You know, we've got the news coming out that the regime has been toppled. Bashar is out. Syria is free. Lina, I know you're typically based in Lebanon. When did you arrive in Damascus?

We were thinking of heading to the border to cover people leaving Damascus at the border. But after midnight, we've realized that maybe we should prepare to get into Damascus. 4 a.m., the news comes that, you know, the regime had fallen. We all made the decision that we should head to the border and make it our way to cross into Syria. ♪

We were among many, many Syrians who lined up their cars waiting for the border to open to cross into Damascus. And these are Syrians who've lived in Lebanon for years, so much wanting to go back. We've seen them celebrating at the border as they were waiting. And we were the first to drive with many Syrians who went back to their country.

And Lina, when you got to Damascus, again, the BBC, your team, were the first Western journalists to make it there. What did you witness? As we crossed from the Lebanese border, the Syrian border crossing, the checkpoints were empty. The officers have been given orders to leave their positions.

We didn't stamp our passports. We went in, we crossed the border without any problem. There were lots of rebels on the way. They just like salute us to go in. And as we drive, we saw lots of abandoned army and security positions, checkpoints that have been abandoned.

We've seen also lots of, you know, army costumes and clothes that were thrown on the ground and an apparent sign that people even didn't want to be identified as Syrian army. So they took off their uniform and throw it on the floor and like left their position. We arrived and we went straight into the main square, Omeyad Square.

We've seen lots of rebels driving around the city, lots of civilians driving. The rebels have been firing live ammunition in the air in celebration. That square, Omeya Square, was packed full of rebels and civilians. They were just chanting.

celebrating, lots of shooting in the air. It was an extraordinary experience to witness firsthand and as first people to go in and see this for ourselves. It was just an incredible experience. Lina, I actually followed some of your live reporting on the ground. I could barely even hear you over the cheers, the celebratory gunfire. Now we're in Omeret Square. It's kind

You were being drowned out. That's how strong the reaction was. And you also made it to the presidential palace. Yes, we went in and it was just like incredible scene full of people. And it felt like...

It felt like a picnic of looting. You know, people were going in because, A, for the first time they've ever managed to get into the palace and walk through its doors and its garden, see its belongings and the furniture and everything. And B, they were just looting because...

Because they were angry because, you know, they've been impoverished. Their rights were taken away from them. Syria has been turned into poverty, 90% of the population under the poverty line. And all of a sudden, after five decades, nobody managed to pass through the street. You know, the doors are open. So they were taking furniture, taking everything they can grab, but also posing and taking pictures. It felt like a tourist tour of Luton.

But Lina, was every Syrian near the palace on board with the chaos that they were witnessing? Not every Syrian. People are worried. We've spoken to many of the residents around the palace. They said people are coming from different areas, just looting, making use that if there are houses that are empty, they're breaking through them. They were worried about the chaos. And in fact, when we were standing there with all the scene, members of the rebels who were

led this whole operation arrived on scene. They shamed people for what they did. They told them these are public properties. You shouldn't destroy anything. And in fact, this is something even the leader of the armed opposition, Ahmed Alshara, known also as Rulani, have, you know, warned against that these institutions and these buildings should be protected. But of course, it is hard to control all the random people coming in and

breaking into houses. And especially it's the first day, you know, and the first few hours. So we have to wait and see the coming days, how they will unfold. And I have to say, you know, it is quite shocking the looting that's happening. But I haven't seen any violence. I haven't seen any aggression.

It's just the euphoria of the moment that, you know, people are just out and about in the streets. They can't believe what happened. And they just want to take anything that they can get their hands on. Lina, you're reporting, of course, but you are also one of those Syrians. And I know that you left Damascus soon after the start of the civil war.

I just wonder on a personal level how you're feeling today. Very, very emotional. All the time on air, I'm trying to think of the journalist who should be, you know, balanced and accurate and credible with what I'm passing on to people and reporting to the world about my own country. But I have to say, you know, in between my reporting, talking to people, I'm hardly able to hold my tears because I'm

I can see their tears, their excitement, their happiness about, you know, a new Syria where there is no oppression. And this is something I've never thought I would live or witness myself. You know, especially after over a decade of the civil war, I had to leave myself after being detained and threatened by the regime.

So many Syrians have lost hope that the world has given up on them, that their misery, their killing, their death didn't mean anything to the world. So everyone almost gave up that things might change. And all of a sudden, within the course of less than two weeks,

It's over. Assad is over. He's out of the country and the country is free. And it makes a whole difference. Lina, I know you have to continue that careful balancing act and get back to your reporting, given the extraordinary scenes we're witnessing right now. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you very much. Thank you.

As Lina said, many had given up all hope that the stalemate in Syria would ever be broken and that those yearning for change would ever be rid of Bashar al-Assad. So what happened? Why couldn't he do more to fight back? And what could the consequences of this remarkable moment in history be for Syria and the region as a whole?

Hello, Simon Jack here from Good Bad Billionaire, the podcast from the BBC World Service, exploring the minds, the motives and the money of some of the world's richest individuals. Did you know there's an easy way to get new episodes automatically? Whether it's Good Bad Billionaire or any of your other favourite BBC World Service podcasts, find the show on your podcast app and then just click follow or subscribe. And if you switch on notifications, you'll get a reminder too. It's that easy. Follow or subscribe now.

and never miss an episode.

Now with me is our chief international correspondent, Lise Doucette, who's in Doha in Qatar. What a moment, Lise. How are you doing? I'm catching my breath as it's such a moment, another extraordinary development in the world news. Now, Lise, before we get into what that big picture is, you've met Bashar al-Assad. Yes, I first started going to Syria in 1994 when I went to establish the BBC office in Jordan, which, of course, neighbouring

and so it was very easy to go back and forth. Everything about Syria was seen to be exquisite, except for the political repression there. I was invited to a very small meeting with him and his advisors around him shortly after he succeeded his father.

That meeting, surrounded by his advisors, is seared in memory because I can see visually him sitting in front of us and the senior Syrian officials on either side of him. And I remember at the time...

that we were all quite startled. And there was someone with us who knew the Assad family very well, that he didn't look either way at any of the advisors, that suddenly he had, he developed this sort of confidence, if not arrogance, that he was coming into his own, he was going to make decisions on his own. And we all talked about it afterwards, about how, wow, he's really in charge now. And I had an interview with him once, just after Israel struck Israel.

What it said was a nuclear reactor. But when I then sat down with him one-on-one, it's quite disconcerting because he's very softly spoken. He's very well-mannered. He's very polite. And it was yet another pivotal time in the region. He talked about his tennis lessons. And I'm thinking, what am I doing talking about tennis with the Syrian leader who's coming under criticism from all sides for politics?

this really brutal crackdown against protesters. And then we went into the interview and I kept coming back. And at that time, it was about the nuclear reactor. And I kept saying, and then, you know, I would say, Mr. President, no one's going to believe you. There's the evidence that it was. So,

Everyone says there must be something that happened. And only you. There's only a few people, maybe you can count on one hand, who know exactly what happened. And you're one of them. I mean, this propaganda reminds us about what happened before the war in Iraq, when they showed all the concrete evidence or evidences that Iraq has a nuclear program or WMD program.

and it turned out to be not existed. When the interview was finished, then I walked down the hall with him. And so again, we were just speaking, the two of us, and I said, Mr. President, nobody is going to believe you. And he stopped me in the hall and he took me up and he said, don't listen to them. It is not true. And I remember going away thinking,

You know, BBC journalists are not supposed to say people are lying. And I'm thinking that's not it. He's not telling the truth. And later, the IAEA confirmed that it was probably a nuclear reactor. And so now this quiet, unassuming man who has had this hold over Syria for 24 years and this family dynasty that has ruled for more than 50 years remains.

is suddenly gone. How surprising is this moment? There's so many memories that are rushing through my mind and so many images. First, the images of Syrians in exile around the world, Syrians in the cities.

rising up, celebrating the stories of people embracing their loved ones who had disappeared into prisons, disappeared into a black hole, and suddenly they come out, at least they're alive. It is such an extraordinary moment of rare joy in Syria. But on the political side, the military side, I keep remembering being in Aleppo in the cold, dark,

dark winter of 2016 when the last of the rebels in East Aleppo, which had been their stronghold,

made a very somber, a very dejected departure from the city. The famous green buses pulled out of the east of Aleppo. And it symbolized the end of the rebels' challenge to President Assad's rule. He just seemed formidable. He had Iran's forces on the ground along with Hezbollah. He had Russian warplanes in the sky. And we said at the time, Assad is lucky. He has such good friends.

And since then, the last of the rebels retreated to what was one of their last redoubts in the northwest corner of Syria in Idlib. The group, the main Islamist group, Hayat al-Rul Hasham, who had rebranded itself after being forged as an al-Qaeda affiliate, seemed to be running its affairs there, but not in any way which ever suggested that they had the ambitions, much less the...

the ability to challenge President Assad's rule again. But year on year as well, the economy of Syria kept tanking. When I would call friends, even in Damascus, they say, we have no electricity, people had no jobs, except for the people who benefited from President Assad's regime on social media. They were going to art shows, they were going to fashion shows, they were eating in fancy restaurants, there were

music concerts in Aleppo. There really was two Syrias. So it just didn't seem as though anything could shake this. And that all of a sudden, when literally the eyes of the world and the eyes even of the major powers in Syria took their eye off the ball,

They suddenly made this lightning advance. I was told that days ago when this all started, Turkey told the Hayatari Lasham, Aleppo is a red line. Don't go for the city of Aleppo. Just go for the countryside. Just make a few gains. That's all they thought the rebels could do. That's all the rebels thought they could do. But suddenly...

They didn't encounter any resistance within a blink of an eye. There they are. They're in Damascus today. They're even praying in the Grand Mosque of Damascus. So how did this happen? Where were Bashar al-Assad's friends? As you said, Iran, Russia, they've stood by him. They've provided resources all these years. Where were they when he needed them? He couldn't have survived without them.

But our listeners, our viewers have come to understand that the word of these times has been unprecedented since the October 7th attacks by Hamas, their rampage across southern Israel. Almost on a daily basis, we are seeing unprecedented jaw-dropping events, red lines being crossed, old assumptions being shattered.

And it just never occurred to anyone that actually Syria might be part of this jigsaw which was falling apart. But now, of course, it makes sense when Iran was distracted, when its key proxy in the region, what it regarded as its forward defense against Israel, Hezbollah, which had played such a key role in Syria to the point that Syrians had started to

quietly mutter that they felt they were being occupied. Whole areas of the capital, Damascus, had been bought up by Iranians or by Hezbollah. Those forces had been weakened. Russia, of course, was distracted by what was happening in Ukraine. And so this was chipping away at President Assad's defenses and his own economic difficulties, huge challenges meant that there was disgruntlement in the army, such that they didn't put up a fight at all.

So the emperor had no clothes. And so now Russian state media, at the time of our conversation right now, is reporting that Assad is in Moscow, that he and his family have been granted asylum by Russia. So how do you square that, Lise? Why were they not able to do more for him when it came to defending his power, his rule in Syria, Russia?

But they've gone to the lengths of getting him somewhere safe. There were reports in the media, in fact, statements from Iranian officials said that they would provide the support that President Assad needed, the resistance, as they call it. There were reports that they would provide some of the drones that Iran provides to Russia for use in Ukraine, although Iran continues to

to deny that. But Iran does have an arsenal of drones that it's being depleted because of its own other security problems across the region among what it calls its ring of fire in the heart of the Middle East.

But the first time we heard from the Iranian foreign minister, he had some very tough language. But the second time he spoke, it sounded as though that this was up to God's will. It was much more ambiguous. And then the Russian, the Kremlin spokesperson said, well, we're going to look at everything possible to support President Assad. But I can say that being here in Doha, where these foreign ministers were gathered,

I asked someone who attended the meetings, these emergency meetings at this 11th hour, and I said, did the Iranians and the Russians indicate that they were ready to provide the military support to Assad so that he could put up a fight? And what I was told was, it's over. They've got nothing left.

They cannot support him anymore. And in the early hours of the morning when I went to bed here in Doha, the last thing I was told was that in those meetings, even with the Iranians and the Russians with such close relationships to President Assad, they were still saying they weren't quite sure what he would do. Would he go down fighting or would he take some of the offers to flee? And I was told that the UAE had...

had offered to help, as it has helped others who have fled into exile that the Russians had offered. There was a chance of Iran. And the discussion was perhaps he would choose the UAE because the original reports had been that his family had been taken there. But then now, as you say, it's been confirmed that it's in Russia, in Moscow, that he will make his own home. And I suppose...

Before too long, we'll start finding out how much of his family is now there, what has happened to his senior military commanders, his political allies, those around him, who would very much be held to account for the systematic human rights abuses, the cruelty, the disappearances, the killing, the destruction, the devastation since the Syrians' uprising of 2011. But of course, it has been a half century since

of repression by the Assad family. King Abdullah of Jordan has sealed the border with Syria. What are he and others are worried will step into the vacuum now? I'm told that the Jordanian and other Arab foreign ministers rushed into the meetings here in Doha and their main concern was, what about the Islamists? Are they going to take control?

The Jordanians, the Iraqis will worry about spillover of this war. They will worry that the rise to power of this powerful Islamist group will inspire and galvanize other groups, militant groups within their borders. What happens in Syria never stays in Syria.

People were not expecting this sudden and astonishing turn of events. So, Lise, essentially, yes, it's the end of decades of Assad family rule. Many Syrians are celebrating this because of the repression that they've endured, the poverty all this time.

But into this vacuum now are several groups that are vying for power. And we don't know where those competing interests could end up and where that leaves the Syrians. Even though there was a statement, a triumphant statement from Israel,

Jelani, the commander of the HTS, that they had captured Damascus, the reality on the ground was that a group of southern forces that have recently called themselves the Southern Operations Room, they were the ones who went into Damascus. They were the ones who worked with

with local groups inside Damascus. We've seen this right across the country that local people have taken up their own arms to play their own role in protecting their areas. And they've worked, they've swelled the ranks of the more formal rebel groups. So it is not at all clear how these rebel groups will work together. Will Jalani dominate? It seems that he will certainly play a decisive role, but he's not the only player on the block. And it should be pointed out that this situation

This group called the Southern Operation Room is composed of former fighters with what was called the Free Syrian Army at the time of the Syrian uprising.

which worked very closely with Western militaries, including the United States and the UK. And one source did tell me that there must be a hope that they will play a kind of moderating role, if you like, so that a harsh, very strict Islamist rule doesn't dominate all of Syria. And that is why you hear calls from all of the foreign ministers of the region and beyond, from the United Nations, for the rebels now to form an inclusive government system

I doubt that is on their mind, that they're heady with victory. Lina was telling us about Syrians celebrating inside the country, but abroad as well, Syrians are cheering. SIREN WAILS

I saw images of banners in Berlin with the words, our hope for democracy. But Lise, do we know for certain that it is in fact democracy that will now flourish in Syria? There were unforgettable moments in 2011 when the peaceful protest erupted and a whole generation which dared to hope that they too would

could have the democratic freedoms enjoyed by so many other countries in the world in a country where everyone was afraid to speak their mind, to speak out. At the time, we said that Syrians at the start were even afraid to say they were afraid. We would go to Damascus and people would hand us notes

words scribbled on paper, putting them into our hands because they didn't want to be seen, to be speaking to journalists. They didn't want their voices to be heard because the spies were everywhere. In the Middle East, I've never worked in a country where you feel, you feel so viscerally the presence, the heavy hand of Syrian security force. We'd be followed by the spies. You knew you were being followed. You knew your phones were being tapped and Syrians knew. And then suddenly Syrians said, and it became obvious

a rallying cry right across the region. We have lost our fear. And they rose up only to be beaten down. And of course, they then were eclipsed by the proliferation of armed groups backed by the West, backed by other Arab states, which played into President Assad's narrative that these were terrorists. He never, never, never recognized the legitimacy of the Syrian civilian opposition. They will hope against hope that this is their second

second chance, but they are also worried about what kind of democratic freedoms, what kind of avenues for expression, what kind of roles they will be able to play in this new Syria. But there's forces aligned against them, as I said, both domestically as well as in the region. But after all they have been through, the world can only say they hope that the Syrians finally get their wish to live in a normal country where their dreams and aspirations can be realized.

And Lise, you mentioned those other factors, but all of this is a reminder, isn't it, that nothing happens in a vacuum. So much of this extraordinary moment is a knock-on effect from what we've been seeing in Gaza, Lebanon, Ukraine. It's all contributed to it. And so if nothing in the region happens in isolation, we're now waiting to see what the consequences of these events in Syria will be. Exactly.

It's dizzying. Everyone's now thinking, oh, well, what's next? What will be the next domino to fall? The unthinkable suddenly becomes the possible. And when it comes to Syria, what happens in Syria doesn't stay in Syria. We are just beginning to see the ripples of this. What's happening in the neighboring countries? What will be... As someone said to me, the game is just beginning. Just beginning. It's fraught with risk.

But it is also an extremely exciting time for Syria. It is an opportunity. And Syrians will hope against hope that this time that isn't crushed. Lise, thank you so much. I know that you're watching all of this closely. And as you said, a lot more could happen soon. So I'll let you get back to your reporting. But thank you for your time. Good to speak with you as a day. Thank you so much.

And thanks so much to you for listening. If you want to get in touch, you can email us at theglobalstory at bbc.com. Wherever you're listening in the world, this has been The Global Story. Thank you for having us in your headphones. Bye for now.

Hello, Simon Jack here from Good Bad Billionaire, the podcast from the BBC World Service, exploring the minds, the motives and the money of some of the world's richest individuals. Did you know there's an easy way to get new episodes automatically? Whether it's Good Bad Billionaire or any of your other favourite BBC World Service podcasts, find the show on your podcast app and then just click follow or subscribe. And if you switch on notifications, you'll get a reminder too. It's that easy.

Follow or subscribe and never miss an episode.